Military Review

“Rumble” in the sky. Did Russia prefer Angara to a dangerous rocket?

88

Uniform variety



The world is increasingly talking about the "missile revolution": this due to both the rapid growth in the number of launches of the reusable Falcon 9, and the advent of light cheap rockets like Electron, which, we recall, should also be reusable. In perspective. In any case, the number of various rocket and space programs is constantly growing. Russia was not an exception here. However, in this case, this can hardly be called a plus (everything is financed not by private owners, but by the state). Recall that soon the country wants to fully commission not only the long-suffering heavy Angara A5 and its development in the face of the Angara A5M, but also a fundamentally new Irtysh, which should replace the Soyuz family missiles. Do not forget about the light Angara-1.2, as well as plans to create your own “reusable media”, and in the future have superheavy Don and Yenisei.

But that is not all. As RIA recently reportedNews"With reference to its source, the Khrunichev center resumes the production of Rokot light conversion rockets, built on the basis of ballistic UR-100N UTTX removed from combat duty. According to RIA, the corresponding contract between the Ministry of Defense and the Khrunichev Center has already been signed. “After coordination with the military department, the new missile was called“ Rokot-M, ”the agency’s interlocutor said.


The project "Rokot" has a rather long and very typical for modern post-Soviet realities history. This three-stage lightweight carrier rocket was designed in the center of Khrunichev: taking into account the first launch in 1990, it completed 35 launches. The last of them was produced on December 27, 2019.

The rocket is far from being as cheap as you might think. According to the Avia.pro portal, the cost of one launch was $ 44 million. For comparison: the launch price of the Soyuz rocket is about 40 million. And launching the aforementioned American Electron costs about six million US dollars, although the carrying capacity of this rocket is significantly lower: 250 kilograms when putting the load into a low reference orbit against more than 2000 kilograms from the Rokot.

New old life


The main problem of the carrier was not the price, but the Ukrainian components, which, after the well-known events, Russia could no longer purchase. Earlier it became known that the missile control system manufactured in Kharkov was decided to be replaced by a Russian one. The project received the designation "Rokot-2." All this, of course, costs a lot of money. As it turned out from the materials of the Khrunichev center, the cost of work under the Rokot-2 should be 3,4 billion rubles, and specifically the creation of a Russian management system will require 690 million.

There is one more difficulty that the head of the Institute for Space Policy Ivan Moiseev rightly drew attention to.

“All questions to the Angara.” Why does everyone push it aside, spending 20 years and a lot of money? From the national point of view, it is not clear why a new light rocket is needed if there is a Soyuz-2.1v and a light Angara. In the West, private traders are engaged in this and take all risks upon themselves. It would be better if they gave this money to the same Khrunichev center for the production of the Angara, especially since the Rokot is a poisonous rocket, ”

- An expert said earlier to RIA Novosti news agency.


Each of these issues is serious and requires a separate consideration. "Rumble" is really poisonous. For the first, second and third stages, dangerous asymmetric dimethylhydrazine or heptyl is used. The one because of which Proton-M was so actively criticized (and continues to criticize) at one time. The fact is that heptyl is a highly toxic carcinogen that can, due to inhalation of vapors or penetration through the skin, lead to pulmonary edema, loss of consciousness, convulsions and death. In addition, the spent steps pollute the soil, so launches may require expensive cleaning measures, otherwise it could seriously contaminate nearby territories.

It turns out that Russia preferred the unsafe “Proton” more environmentally neutral “Angara”, and then decided to propose the production of another carrier using asymmetric dimethylhydrazine.


However, now there is almost no doubt that the heavy A5 Angara will be used: recently it became known about the purchase by the Russian Ministry of Defense of four such carriers. But the light "Angara-1.2" seems to be waiting for hard times. And the matter is not only in “Rokot”. Recall that last year it became known that Roscosmos terminated the contract for the production of the rocket, choosing not her, but Soyuz-2 as the launch tool for the Gonets series. In the same 2019, Interfax reported one more unpleasant news: according to it, the construction price of Angara-1.2 will be one and a half times higher than the cost of creating the Soyuz rocket. In general, this could be expected at the stage of launching the rocket into the series, however, plans for the “Rokot” do not exactly add the chances for the success of the light Angara.

Industry crisis


It is worth noting another significant important detail that directly relates to the new program. The Khrunichev center, developing and manufacturing the Angara and working on the updated Rokot, is rightly considered the most problematic enterprise of the space department. Among the difficulties is a difficult financial situation. As Lenta.ru recently noted, the center’s debts exceed 80 billion rubles (according to other sources, the amount is 100 billion rubles), which is comparable to the annual budget of Roscosmos.

This is partly due to the difficulties of the transition period. Recall that in 2019 it became known that a huge business center will be built on the site of part of the territory of the Khrunichev center in Moscow, and the “Proton” and “Angara” missiles will be assembled in Omsk. Previously, we could see one of the sketches of the main building of the National Space Center, which in its shape resembles a giant launch vehicle.


In general, the prospects for the updated Rokot, as well as Angara-1.2, are very ambiguous. In this regard, the question is: can Russia even count on getting an inexpensive and safe light / ultralight carrier in the future? There are such hopes. A few days ago, the private company Cosmocourse introduced a rocket project with which it will take part in the Aeronet contest. It is assumed that a two-stage carrier will be able to put about 260 kilograms of cargo into a sun-synchronous orbit. The capabilities of the rocket should be enough to launch nano- and microsatellites. By the way, there is an unfounded opinion that the number of such devices in the general “basket” of launches will constantly grow.

On the other hand, we have repeatedly witnessed how private initiative in Russian realities ended in nothing. It is enough to recall the story of the “Sea Launch”, which now has every chance to go to scrap. But what far-reaching plans did S7 Space have, which claimed to become a “Russian SpaceX” ...
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    1. Same lech
      Same lech 15 June 2020 06: 30 New
      +8
      Justify your deep thought ... what I also do not understand the endless throwings of Roscosmos from one extreme to another ... it seems they themselves clearly do not know what they need from space.
      1. Mavrikiy
        Mavrikiy 15 June 2020 06: 48 New
        -8
        Quote: The same Lech
        Justify your deep thought ..
        I agree, the thought is deep. repeat But she is on the surface. The liberals in the first place loot, not the case. angry
        As for systems, then everything is clear. Lighter systems, cheaper. And like any worthy liberal, the author pulls an excellent private owl onto the globe of state order.
        The other day, the private company Cosmocourse has introduced a rocket project with which it will take part in the Aeronet contest.
        On the other hand, we have repeatedly witnessed how private initiative in Russian realities ended in nothing.
        Here is the main concern of the author.
        It is enough to recall the story of the “Sea Launch”, which now has every chance to go to scrap. But what far-reaching plans did S7 Space have, which claimed to become a “Russian SpaceX”

        Quote: The same Lech
        it seems that they themselves clearly do not know what they need from space.
        They all know. - "KU they want!"
        1. Mitroha
          Mitroha 15 June 2020 07: 52 New
          14
          resumes the production of light conversion rockets "Rokot", built on the basis of ballistic UR-100N UTTX removed from combat duty

          The rocket is far from being as cheap as you might think. According to the Avia.pro portal, the cost of one launch was $ 44 million. For comparison: the launch price of the Soyuz rocket is about 40 million

          The author himself wrote everything. The cost comparison is incorrect, because otherwise the UR-100N UTTX will have to be disposed of, which would be a cheap pleasure.
          A reference to the comparison of the American Electron is generally out of place, for the carrier is a completely different class. Just the difference in the numbers in comparison looked cool, I guess.
          1. Blackmokona
            Blackmokona 15 June 2020 09: 12 New
            -8
            What is the complexity and high cost of disposing of a shot at the landfill?
            1. Mitroha
              Mitroha 15 June 2020 10: 01 New
              +1
              Well, yes, I pressed the "enter" button from the sofa and that’s it, business then. laughing
              1. Blackmokona
                Blackmokona 15 June 2020 10: 01 New
                -4
                Do you think the activities of launching a military missile cost more than $ 20 million?
                1. Mitroha
                  Mitroha 15 June 2020 10: 07 New
                  +5
                  Firstly, what amount did you have?
                  Secondly, if you thoughtlessly dispose of everything produced, no production will be enough.
                  1. Blackmokona
                    Blackmokona 15 June 2020 10: 48 New
                    -2
                    I can more precisely. SpaceX offers for additional loads 5 thousand dollars per kg, here they offer 2000 kg, i.e. 10 million, the current price of putting 2 tons into orbit.
                    Multiply by two, everything is so basic. And now the 20 million current commercial offer, which can be subtracted from the launch price of Rokot.
                    Which is declared here at 44 million.
                    Thus, 24 million is the loss from each launch.
                    1. Mitroha
                      Mitroha 15 June 2020 12: 36 New
                      +4
                      You are confused about:
                      The SpaceX rocket launch market price is about $ 60 million.
                      Total + $ 20 million. And the cost of 44 million is indicated along with the production of missiles. And here she ALREADY is. Only refinement. So consider it.
                      1. Blackmokona
                        Blackmokona 15 June 2020 12: 50 New
                        -4
                        You confuse, the whole Falcon-9 rocket displays 22.8 tons of cargo, and not 2 tons like Rokot. That is, to withdraw the load of the Falcon-9, you will need 11,5 Rokot missiles.
                        The RedShare program that it offers gives 5 thousand dollars per kg for additional loads.
        2. sav
          sav 15 June 2020 08: 29 New
          +6
          The liberals in the first place loot, not the case.

          So you called the author by this word (it is not clear why), and meanwhile, the current president of Russia also considers himself a liberal what Skomorokhov yesterday even brought relevant videos
          1. Mavrikiy
            Mavrikiy 15 June 2020 08: 56 New
            +1
            Quote: sav
            So you called the author by this word (it is not clear why), and meanwhile, the current president of Russia also considers himself a liberal Skomorokhov yesterday even cited relevant videos

            I name it because it is.
            Putin called himself a liberal, how many years ago?
            And the fact that Skomorokhov is trying, sticking out his tongue, so this is a mile away.
            1. sav
              sav 15 June 2020 09: 47 New
              +9
              So why stoop to insults?
          2. Xnumx vis
            Xnumx vis 15 June 2020 09: 01 New
            12
            Quote: sav
            Skomorokhov yesterday even brought relevant videos

            Not for all yours, Skomorokhov's authority ... Very not for everyone.
            1. sav
              sav 15 June 2020 09: 35 New
              +5
              It's not about my Skomorokhov, but about the video
          3. nickname7
            nickname7 16 June 2020 12: 31 New
            +1
            . Russian president also considers himself a liberal

            There are different liberals, there are masked non-real liberals who call them. Distinguish them from each other in different terms.
      2. Lexus
        Lexus 15 June 2020 06: 55 New
        12
        It is enough to recall the story of the “Sea Launch”, which now has every chance to go to scrap. But what far-reaching plans did S7 Space have, which claimed to become a “Russian SpaceX” ...

        I also do not understand the endless throwings of Roscosmos from one extreme to another ... it seems they themselves clearly do not know what they need from space.

        The industry, and not only it, is in a fever in the incompetent hands of “rowers”, sharpened exclusively for self-enrichment. First, the juices were squeezed out, then they threw some money, but half of it was immediately stolen. When everyone “threw caps into the air” about the Russian future of the Sea Launch, it was already clear that it was not expected in a good, productive light. Now, they’re “shooting through” now that, in itself, it’s not bad that they used their ICBMs, and what will happen next ... A steep peak is looming. Modern pH to build and run - this is not a monstrous office to build. Manilism at its worst.
        1. Civil
          Civil 15 June 2020 07: 31 New
          +5
          Do not touch Rogozin! He is a journalist, not some kind of engineer. He is creatively entitled to an artistic description of the project of Roscosmos. And how beautifully he says, you will hear.
          1. tihonmarine
            tihonmarine 15 June 2020 08: 15 New
            +1
            Quote: Civil
            And how beautifully he says, you will hear.

            She speaks like a nightingale singing. But the songs and the words of the rocket do not give birth.
        2. barin
          barin 15 June 2020 08: 08 New
          +2
          Now, they are "shooting through" now, which, in itself, is not bad, having spent their ICBMs, and what will happen next ...

          That's right you said. About thirty of these "Styletes" remain. Those. everything is conceived for the sake of these thirty starts.
        3. nickname7
          nickname7 16 June 2020 12: 41 New
          +1
          Regarding debts, there was information that the fuel plant, with which the missiles are refueled, belongs to a private trader who raised prices, Khrunichev is forced to buy fuel at exorbitant prices, from which part of the debt arose. It is possible that there are still similar desks pumping money out.
      3. Bar1
        Bar1 15 June 2020 09: 10 New
        +2
        what to say? A mess is being created, moreover, a man-made mess, created by someone and absolutely necessary for someone, so that our space industry would completely collapse. There is no clear understanding in which direction to move and why to develop space programs.

        Recall that soon the country wants to fully commission not only the long-suffering heavy Angara A5 and its development in the face of the Angara A5M, but also the brand new Irtysh, which should replace the Soyuz family missiles.


        Yes, the country DOESN’T WANT this hangar at all, it has long been clear to everyone, because this hangar has no advantage over Soviet missiles, and therefore there are no prospects.
        Roscosmos can’t integrate into this stupid international trade in satellite launch services, and to hell with them, you need to do YOUR own affairs.
        -Build your station.
        - Launch the lunar program of a manned ship. How much you can already chat about the moon, it's time to be there already.
        - launch their Soviet rockets Energiya, Soyuz with good RD and NK engines into low Earth orbit and geostationary orbit.
        -and do not invent all sorts of nonsense about the hangar, but the Yenisei.
        And to sell the station to pin_dos, we’ll see how they can feel there on their bottles, very quickly everything will be dirtied and abandoned.
    2. AUL
      AUL 15 June 2020 07: 06 New
      +8
      Quote: Mavrikiy
      Author, you

      Regardless of your attitude to what the author wrote, you can be rude in the pub (if you are not afraid to get paid for it), and not on the pages of a respected forum!
  2. carstorm 11
    carstorm 11 15 June 2020 06: 38 New
    +4
    you see, according to the Avia pro portal, you can immediately stop reading. Well, as an example, one of the headlines on their portal-In NATO announced their readiness to start a military invasion of Russia
    Read more at: https://avia.pro/news/v-nato-zayavili-o-gotovnosti-nachala-voennogo-vtorzheniya-v-rossiyu
    or another, American fighter jets launched a “free hunt” for the Russian Su-57
    Read more at: https://avia.pro/news/amerikanskie-istrebiteli-nachali-svobodnuyu-ohotu-na-rossiyskie-su-57
    this is a garbage dump and I do not understand. how can you even refer to it.
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 15 June 2020 06: 45 New
      +1
      you see, according to the Avia pro portal, you can immediately stop reading.

      I do not read this garbage dump ... smile except that I look at the headlines ... you determine from them what task was given to the editor to reset the next fake or disinformation ... they are not friends at all with all their nonsense.
      In our cosmonautics ... civilian ... I look at the results of launches and their appointments ... there are no questions for the military, they are fine, but there are a lot of questions for civilians.
      1. Ros 56
        Ros 56 15 June 2020 06: 55 New
        +6
        There is no civilian space, 99% one way or another as a result is tied to a military commissar, even growing plants and Drosdophilus flies.
    2. Hagen
      Hagen 15 June 2020 07: 00 New
      0
      Quote: carstorm 11
      you see, according to the Avia pro portal, you can immediately stop reading

      So you read not only the headings, but also the content. Including on Avia.pro. wink
      1. carstorm 11
        carstorm 11 15 June 2020 07: 24 New
        +3
        Near the Russian military air base "Hmeimim" in Syria, an American military plane P-3 Aries was seen, which had not previously appeared in this area of ​​the Mediterranean Sea. Given the capabilities of this aircraft, experts note that the Americans definitely noticed something very mysterious and interesting at the Russian military airfield or in the immediate vicinity of it, to identify which the capabilities of the RC-135 and P-8A Poseidon aircraft were clearly not enough, and although the aircraft more designed for work on the water surface, experts do not exclude that its appearance in the eastern part of the Mediterranean Sea may indicate the appearance of the latest weapons at Russian military bases, especially given the fact that modern weapons developed in Russia are being tested in the ATS. According to available information, the American military aircraft Lockheed EP-3E ARIES II was located right next to the Hmeimim airbase, against which experts had speculated that modern Russian aircraft, helicopters or even air defense systems could have appeared at the Russian military airfield, including this applies to the S-500 "Prometheus" or strike drone S-70 "Hunter", which is also being tested.
        read this?))) I can throw hundreds of such stuffing from my head from a typical source) like a pancake in a joke, do you have an aquarium? no. then you are impotent.
        1. Hagen
          Hagen 15 June 2020 11: 59 New
          +1
          Quote: carstorm 11
          read this?))) I can throw such stuffing from my head a hundred in a day

          Do you also "throw" photos of an air base in Syria with an object "similar" to "Hunter"? In addition, there are many who refer to NI. But on VO not really ... And on you too. Become a reliable source, they will refer to you. It's all so simple.
          1. carstorm 11
            carstorm 11 15 June 2020 13: 36 New
            0
            Do they have these photos?)))
            1. Hagen
              Hagen 15 June 2020 16: 23 New
              0
              Quote: carstorm 11
              Do they have these photos?)))

              In any case, they spread it on the Internet ...
              1. user1212
                user1212 22 June 2020 04: 32 New
                0
                Quote: Hagen
                In any case, they spread it on the Internet ...

                So these are not photographs of The Hunter, but the Rorschach test. Show these pictures to the Norwegians, they will see a Russian submarine there, the Ukrainians are Russian tanks, and whales can see whales everywhere laughing
    3. military_cat
      military_cat 15 June 2020 08: 06 New
      +4
      Quote: carstorm 11
      NATO announced readiness to launch military invasion of Russia
      American fighters began a "free hunt" on the Russian Su-57

      The first piece of news is the reprint from The National Interest. The second news about repainted F16 was here, only under a different heading. I don’t see much difference between them and VO, to be honest.
      1. carstorm 11
        carstorm 11 15 June 2020 13: 35 New
        -1
        The headline says more) I read these articles. Only with such a title is the meaning completely different
        1. military_cat
          military_cat 15 June 2020 14: 14 New
          0
          This is called clickbait, and this is the reality of online media. Look at the title of this article, until you read the text, you will not understand that we are only talking about Hangar-1.2
  3. 1536
    1536 15 June 2020 06: 42 New
    +2
    It is clear that there is no concept on what to fly into space in Russia, since all the proposed rocket technology projects are not implemented or are not feasible. One chatter and even with an eye on NASA. Hence the lack of interest in space exploration. It's disgusting, as if I came to the bakery and you see moldy bread on the counter, and colorful posters with "heat-burning" buns, loaves and loaves are hung on the walls.
  4. rocket757
    rocket757 15 June 2020 07: 02 New
    0
    All officials are eager for quick victories, just victories and for the price they ..... for starters, we must force them FOR THE PRICE and much more RESPOND!
  5. Aviator_
    Aviator_ 15 June 2020 08: 17 New
    +7
    The price of land in Moscow will kill more than one space program.
    1. Doctor
      Doctor 15 June 2020 08: 51 New
      +4
      The price of land in Moscow will kill more than one space program.

      Not only. According to Khrunichev (and other Moscow), the problem is more in salaries. They don’t want to locksmith for 25, as in Samara. There was an idea of ​​transfer. Counted-tears. There is still a crisis ...
  6. shinobi
    shinobi 15 June 2020 08: 19 New
    0
    The state order defines it as if. Even for private traders. Everything else in the article is a liberal flight of thought and frank conjectures. In one author, he is right, there is a systemic crisis of the space industry. Everyone. In general. from the 70s. And they will not take us further than the moon.
    1. Genry
      Genry 15 June 2020 11: 04 New
      -3
      Quote: shinobi
      All the “new” ideas and rockets come from the 70s. And they will not take us further than the moon.

      In fact, in Rosskosmos developed a nuclear tug that allows you to make space travel within our galaxy.

      An explanation in the videos of the author (Dmitry Konanykhin) on the subject of nuclear engines and a nuclear tug.

      How the tug turns around at 6:20
      1. shinobi
        shinobi 15 June 2020 11: 23 New
        +4
        Comrade optimist. Within the "habitat" maximum. This is Venus-Earth-Mars-asteroid belt. And speaking of the systemic crisis, I had in mind surface-orbit systems. Until complexes are developed where the cost of delivery of the cargo will not exceed at least it wouldn’t be necessary to talk about any vigorous activity in space. Even in the near, within the moon. A nuclear tugboat was created in order to freely carry cargo in different orbits, not further than the lunar, but into orbit it will be brought out the old fashioned way. Like they will throw loads for him into orbit. He cannot influence the price tag of this procedure. You need to bring to mind Myasishchev's concept.
        1. Genry
          Genry 15 June 2020 11: 34 New
          -4
          Quote: shinobi
          Comrade optimist. Within the "habitat zone" maximum. This is Venus-Earth-Mars-Asteroid Belt.

          Actually, I think that people have nothing to do there. But if someone works, then there is no need to interfere. Along the way, technologies very necessary on Earth appear.
          Quote: shinobi
          And speaking of a systemic crisis, I had in mind surface-orbit systems. Until complexes are developed where the cost of delivery does not exceed at least the same price as with a regular flight, there is no need to talk about any active activity in space.

          Well, you are bent. With physics, definitely not at odds.
          Although, read about “potential energy” and then, about kinetic (how to accelerate and slow down). Aircraft have no such problems.
          Quote: shinobi
          Even in the near, within the moon.

          The moon is a political PR. Only the military have practical interest there.
          1. shinobi
            shinobi 15 June 2020 12: 39 New
            -2
            And here is physics. I took air transportation as an example of pricing, and not the ideas of space systems. If you are about Myasishchev's concepts, then he was not only involved in aviation. His VKS M-19 with a hybrid powerplant is more relevant than ever.
            1. Genry
              Genry 15 June 2020 13: 09 New
              0
              Quote: shinobi
              And here is physics. I took air transportation as an example of pricing, and not the ideas of space systems.

              Physics determines energy costs.
              The ISS orbit is 40 times higher than the cruising level of the aircraft (potential energy). So increase by 40 times the mass and cost of fuel on take-off.
              The orbital speed of the ISS is about 27700 km / h, 30 times that of an airplane (kinetic ...). The amount of energy you need is more than 30 * 30 = 900 times.
              Total, energy must be pumped to lift into orbit 400 km, almost 1000 times more.
              This is a very primitive calculation, since you need to carry the weight of the fuel with you.
              And you probably have free energy and then you can compare the flight of an airplane and a rocket.
              1. shinobi
                shinobi 17 June 2020 02: 48 New
                -1
                The M-19 was developed as a strike aerospace system. Remove armaments from it, add additional hydrogen tanks and the radius of coverage of possible orbits will increase to lunar ones. On Myasischevsky M-19, a hybrid power plant. A nuclear cooled reactor with sodium provides RPB operation (atmospheric part) and RD (space). You would at least google requested, for a change, an accountant.
        2. nickname7
          nickname7 16 June 2020 13: 13 New
          +1
          moon, but it will be put into orbit in the old fashioned way.

          And what do you want, they have not yet come up with a method other than burning. (reactors at nuclear power plants are also primitive; they heat water for steam turbines.)
          You are one of those who want to colonize stars in one generation, but this is self-deception, since science and technology are primitive for this.
          We are in the stone age of space exploration.
      2. military_cat
        military_cat 15 June 2020 14: 30 New
        0
        Quote: Genry
        In fact, in Rosskosmos developed a nuclear tug

        There it is ... https://ria.ru/20200429/1570715552.html
        1. Genry
          Genry 15 June 2020 15: 03 New
          0
          Quote: military_cat
          There it is ...

          "This" is the working environment - there periodically ... Science - this is not to shift bricks.
      3. Revival
        Revival 16 June 2020 17: 15 New
        -1
        Have you developed !? Or they thought up, “let engineers think there” (c).
  7. U-58
    U-58 15 June 2020 08: 29 New
    0
    It's not easy, but very simple))))
    Although, honestly, just in a matchbox.
    The creation of the Rokot will give in the near future the AVAILABILITY of the finished, spent, carrier.
    That is, it will definitely be and will be used.
    In the end, the military needs a workhorse, not ghostly plans for the future.
    Yes, it costs money.
    But the ultimate goal will be achieved without the prospect of shifting the deadlines to the right.
  8. Jurkovs
    Jurkovs 15 June 2020 09: 08 New
    0
    In this regard, the question is: can Russia even count on getting an inexpensive and safe light / ultralight carrier in the future?

    Why maybe he already is, tested and flies. It is called Soyuz-2V.
    And Rokot-2 is Khrunichev’s next attempt to stay afloat. In general, all recent publications, events and discussions are inspired by the Khruniks. They really do not want to be closed at all. And on the other hand. They stopped the release of Proton, forgotten how to do orbital modules (the fate of Science), does not stick with the Angara. So they invent, then Proton-Licht, then Rokot-2. The main thing is that there is equipment, albeit of the last century, but it is possible to produce products on it, even of the last century, but which of them cares. I really do not want to go to work in Omsk and I want to get a big salary in Moscow. It is necessary to close Tsikh completely. Orbital modules transmit Energy. And rockets are already doing on Progress.
    1. Genry
      Genry 15 June 2020 09: 38 New
      0
      Quote: Jurkovs
      Roar-2 is Khrunichev's next attempt to stay afloat.

      Roar-2 is an opportunity to receive 30 or cheaper launches (finished missiles are removed from duty and carry out useful launches on them). It just lacks a modern management system that can be created as a modification of the latest developments for Soyuz-5 (Irtysh) or the Angara, or ....
  9. Doctor
    Doctor 15 June 2020 09: 36 New
    +2
    There is no light carrier, so they return to Rokot.

    We actually had 4 carriers:

    1. Proton M - heptyl - to a low orbital orbit (DOE) - 23,7 tons.
    2. Zenith 2 - kerosene - DOE - 13,7 tons
    3. Union 2.1b - kerosene - DOE - 7,8 tons.
    4. Rumble - heptyl - NOO - 2,1 tons

    Zenit is everything (Ukraine), Angara is damp, and the orbital grouping needs to be updated constantly.
    1. Genry
      Genry 15 June 2020 09: 58 New
      +1
      Quote: Arzt
      There is no light carrier, so they return to Rokot.

      Do you think that Rokot would simply be picked up and thrown away?
      Its useful use was planned before the start of design.
      1. Doctor
        Doctor 15 June 2020 10: 08 New
        0
        Do you think that Rokot would simply be picked up and thrown away?
        Its useful use was planned before the start of design.

        Eco-friendly times have begun.
        They wanted to give up heptyl, but Angara did not go ...
        1. Genry
          Genry 15 June 2020 10: 16 New
          +1
          Quote: Arzt
          Eco-friendly times have begun.
          They wanted to give up heptyl

          Heptyl was abandoned in new designs and manufacturing of NEW (but old designs) launch vehicles.
          Heptyl will be used for a long time in devices where it is necessary to repeatedly turn on the engine (spaceships). Even in CrewDragon it is used, despite its novelty and “advancedness” and the ability of astronauts to recover at any stage of the flight (in the Unions, when landing, everything falls off with an aggregate compartment).
          1. Blackmokona
            Blackmokona 17 June 2020 19: 10 New
            0
            I wonder how astronauts can go in spacesuits?
    2. military_cat
      military_cat 15 June 2020 14: 22 New
      0
      Quote: Arzt
      There is no light carrier, so they return to Rokot.

      And the "unions" are no longer considered, or what? In addition to 2.1b, there is also 2.1b (2.8t at the IEO - it is he who is the real competitor to both the Angara-1.2 and the conversion ICBMs).

      The meager number of launches 2.1v means that there are not very many loads of this size.
  10. Angelo Provolone
    Angelo Provolone 15 June 2020 10: 17 New
    0
    the most problematic enterprise of the space department

    no. the most problematic space enterprise
  11. Grazdanin
    Grazdanin 15 June 2020 11: 41 New
    0
    What is our goal in space? Why do we need it? Have an understanding of this? Missiles are being built not just like that, but for something. Roscosmos is doing what private traders should do, commercial delivery. When people do what they should not and cannot do, it turns out Crap.
    1. Genry
      Genry 15 June 2020 12: 12 New
      -2
      Quote: Grazdanin
      Roscosmos is doing what private traders should do, commercial delivery. When people do what they should not and cannot do, it turns out Crap.

      What should Roskosmos do? Evaporate?

      And how will private traders do what they don’t know? It requires science and specialists, and a production base and finance. Private traders will be able to draw several scientific programs on materials or chemical components or the study of the flight situation inside and outside the ship ??? Private traders will never be able to achieve the capabilities of a large corporation. Here they can PR unlimitedly.

      Crap is the stream of consciousness of couch experts.
      1. Grazdanin
        Grazdanin 15 June 2020 12: 38 New
        +3
        What Roskosmos does is evident from the results. Both the Angara in the series and From the East every week, rockets take off and the Federation is restarted for the fifth time in space, and the ship designed by Korolev has long been decommissioned.
        The state must regulate, create conditions, support, invest, protect.
        How the state and private traders work is seen from the results. Outside the window is 2020, not 1961.
    2. Doctor
      Doctor 15 June 2020 13: 39 New
      0
      What is our goal in space? Why do we need it? Have an understanding of this?

      The orbiting satellite constellation needs to be kept unambiguously.

      In perspective:
      Permanent AMS in the orbits of Venus and Mars, on Mars - surface mapping.
      Long-playing devices on the surface of these planets.
      AMS to distant planets, Mercury and asteroids.
      Hubble type telescope or (better) participation in the James Webb, LUVOIR joint programs.
  12. Falcond
    Falcond 15 June 2020 11: 55 New
    0
    In short blah blah .. and the maximum - the disposal of Soviet missiles! What’s new is created, except for the ciphers in the name ???
    1. Genry
      Genry 15 June 2020 11: 59 New
      0
      Quote: FalconD
      In short blah blah .. and the maximum - the disposal of Soviet missiles! What’s new is created, except for the ciphers in the name ???

      What new can you say in the subject line of an article about an old rocket? Are you having trouble concentrating? Maybe talk about the weather here?
      1. Falcond
        Falcond 15 June 2020 12: 08 New
        0
        Carefully read the first paragraph in the article and think again!
        1. Genry
          Genry 15 June 2020 12: 16 New
          +1
          And when did the first paragraph determine the theme of the whole text?
          If this article was earlier, then they wrote about the Congress of the CPSU.
  13. Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 15 June 2020 12: 32 New
    +1
    Well, it’s time to leave the poison missiles long ago, because the state incurs the associated expenses and damage, which kills the commercial potential. It’s best for us now to focus our attention not on catch-ups, but on our idea with a megawatt nuclear tug and heavy / heavy weight for him.
    In the medium term, we could coolly cut money on transport services - but not to orbit and vice versa, but to more serious ones. As for lightweight carriers for outputting a small load, we have remarkable achievements in large aircraft and we can quite quickly master the direction of aircraft launch, which will plug all these "Electrons" into the belt.
    It is only necessary that people who can count money and make adequate business plans take up space — and get money after success (or get a boot under the tail in time if success is not visible).
  14. Vladimir61
    Vladimir61 15 June 2020 12: 36 New
    -1
    Why? Probably because back in March 2018 the following was announced
    Soviet-made UR-100N UTTKh intercontinental ballistic missiles (according to the US classification - SS-19 "Stiletto") will be the first carriers of hypersonic planning blocks of the latest Russian Avangard complex. This was reported to TASS by a source in the Russian military-industrial complex.
    1. Genry
      Genry 15 June 2020 12: 56 New
      -2
      Quote: Vladimir61
      back in March 2018, literally the following was announced

      It was a political statement ....
      Now "Sarmat" is already at the exit and as planned, hyper-blocks will be put immediately on it.
  15. nov_tech.vrn
    nov_tech.vrn 15 June 2020 17: 18 New
    0
    The figures on the economy of Rokota are completely opaque, instead of costly disposal, costly modernization. We will calculate the cost of a “cheap” launch plus an expensive disposal and will definitely be more expensive.
    1. remal
      remal 16 June 2020 13: 19 New
      +1
      Yes, there the conversion cost is probably pretty penny, they just put the price tag on the market, and the difference in your pocket, to support the pants. In general, they fix something for which developers roll the barrel on them, increase profitability.
  16. nov_tech.vrn
    nov_tech.vrn 15 June 2020 17: 30 New
    +1
    “There is one more difficulty that the head of the Institute for Space Policy Ivan Moiseev rightly drew attention to” - a certain Ivan Moiseev, scientific director of the Institute for Space Policy.
    Well, that is not intergalactic diplomacy. The site of this self-proclaimed “institute” speaks for itself: all the information on it was out of date many years ago. In Soviet times, Moiseev worked at the All-Russian Research Institute of Lifting and Transport Engineering, and under Yeltsin he was somehow harassed by the development of the law “On Space Activities”.
    In 1994, Moiseev was an expert expert at the Parliamentary Center of the Russian Federation. In 1995 - 1998, Moiseev worked as an engineer at the Russian Law Academy of the Ministry of Justice of the Russian Federation (!). From 1999 to this day - the head of the Space Policy Institute, as well as an expert of the Cosmos Cluster of the Skolkovo Foundation? !!. Obviously, with such a biography, he has the most indirect relation to the space industry. About the fact that this "institution" is nothing but an NGO, I think no need to add.
  17. Black Colonel
    Black Colonel 15 June 2020 18: 12 New
    +2
    "... a huge business center will be built on the site of part of the territory of the Khrunichev center in Moscow, and Proton and Angara missiles will be assembled in Omsk."
    Well, what is more profitable to cut hair from shopping centers and business centers than to "lift Russia off its knees"! ZIL poheril, AZLK poherili. Is rocket science still breathing? And this is poherim !!! To be faithful, Chubais to be appointed director.
  18. Usher
    Usher 15 June 2020 22: 34 New
    +2
    Another "maskroder"
    However, in this case, this can hardly be called a plus (everything is financed not by private owners, but by the state).
    where space is funded by private owners, well, show me? SpiceX? Do not tell, the money comes from NASA and technology with personnel.
  19. remal
    remal 16 June 2020 13: 13 New
    -1
    The most problematic part of Roscosmos is its leadership, random people are not involved in technology and business. Killing another private initiative of S7 space, they not only lose the money invested in the industry by this company, but also the potential investments of the rest of the business, and Filev himself is a military engineer, unlike that rabble not only got to the feeding trough. It was possible to attract money to the same Khrunichev center, to launch the Rokot from the Brazilian cosmodrome, and then Proton. Yes, a lot of things can be done in the Central House of Artists, and there is a lot of money in the country, only people need to be attracted who know how to work with them, and not to eat up the budget.
  20. doubovitski
    doubovitski 16 June 2020 13: 28 New
    0
    Quote: BlackMokona
    What is the complexity and high cost of disposing of a shot at the landfill?

    In the name of the reliability tabular dataset? If it was planned to further manufacture and operate this missile, then, for the military, in particular, this would be important. To have an amazingly reliable system is to get a guarantee of a combat mission. But it is withdrawn from service and no one needs such tables. Hack iron? Is it not better to make a computer that manages rocket systems, while gaining additional knowledge and experience in this matter, and shoot as many times as there are? It’s not very expensive, I think, to remake the starting systems for the old engines, but with the new control system I do not understand how we can, with our knowledge of specifics, talk on this topic? Are we taking on an impossible task? Picnic vests, your mother’s aunt. “- Have you read about the conference on disarmament?” One piqué vest turned to another piqué vest. “Speech by Count Bernstorff.”

    - Bernstorf is the head! - the asked vest answered in such a tone, as if he was convinced of it on the basis of long-term acquaintance with the count. "
  21. doubovitski
    doubovitski 16 June 2020 13: 38 New
    0
    Quote: Black Colonel
    "... a huge business center will be built on the site of part of the territory of the Khrunichev center in Moscow, and Proton and Angara missiles will be assembled in Omsk."
    Well, what is more profitable to cut hair from shopping centers and business centers than to "lift Russia off its knees"! ZIL poheril, AZLK poherili. Is rocket science still breathing? And this is poherim !!! To be faithful, Chubais to be appointed director.

    Does this crap look like Gazprom’s glass corn in St. Petersburg? To sell 3 billion budget money in the name of the convenience of office plankton and getting dough in your own pockets for renting super-prestigious and super-expensive areas that are never used in the future by Gazprom itself?
  22. doubovitski
    doubovitski 16 June 2020 13: 46 New
    +1
    Quote: Grazdanin
    What is our goal in space? Why do we need it? Have an understanding of this? Missiles are being built not just like that, but for something. Roscosmos is doing what private traders should do, commercial delivery. When people do what they should not and cannot do, it turns out Crap.

    To THINK about the problems that you assign to Roscosmos, it is enough to have one Ragozin. UUUUUUU, BALLS are running around ..... But to earn money and designing something to give to crooks, like Mask. Ask him how many and why generous uncles from the state feeder dumped him?
  23. doubovitski
    doubovitski 16 June 2020 13: 58 New
    +1
    Quote: Jurkovs
    In this regard, the question is: can Russia even count on getting an inexpensive and safe light / ultralight carrier in the future?

    Why maybe he already is, tested and flies. It is called Soyuz-2V.
    And Rokot-2 is Khrunichev’s next attempt to stay afloat. In general, all recent publications, events and discussions are inspired by the Khruniks. They really do not want to be closed at all. And on the other hand. They stopped the release of Proton, forgotten how to do orbital modules (the fate of Science), does not stick with the Angara. So they invent, then Proton-Licht, then Rokot-2. The main thing is that there is equipment, albeit of the last century, but it is possible to produce products on it, even of the last century, but which of them cares. I really do not want to go to work in Omsk and I want to get a big salary in Moscow. It is necessary to close Tsikh completely. Orbital modules transmit Energy. And rockets are already doing on Progress.

    Unions need to be done, and Rokoty wallow in storage. That’s the whole difference. And the difference is in the prudent use of what has already been done long ago. Return to the economy at least part of past costs.
  24. Alexander Naydenov
    Alexander Naydenov 16 June 2020 19: 18 New
    -1
    Firm "FOR" amendments to the Constitution! decisive "NO!" The CRA of the 1993 Constitution of the Russian Federation, slipped to the alcoholic Yeltsin !!!
  25. cdrt
    cdrt 17 June 2020 09: 02 New
    +1
    How are you sick of it, iksperdy Mamkin. Suck each other and then suck the news. Where is the conversion of ready-made ICBMs, and where are the new missiles for launching ... taking such an iksperd and a frying pan over the head ... it's still empty there, the homothety will at least understand that you don’t need to write if the news sucked from a friend’s appendix
  26. Wasilii
    Wasilii 17 June 2020 16: 18 New
    +1
    Is there a limit to the stupidity of resource authors? Purely from a scientific point of view. Or the limit of incompetence? No, they banyat here great, in two hands, but they did not grow their brains. The fact that no one is going to produce Rokot rockets, because they have been manufactured for a long time and have already defended on combat duty in the Strategic Missile Forces, is twenty years old, the author, of course, is not in the know. The fact that the sale price and cost of goods sold are very distant from each other, the author could certainly find out, but the ABC book stolen in the first class prevented this. So go ahead, ban readers in a Stakhanovian way, and most importantly, make a request for financial assistance to a resource larger so that everyone can laugh.
  27. remal
    remal 17 June 2020 18: 29 New
    0
    As an option, adapt the sea launch to "roar" and other conversion heptyls. Then a couple of platforms to build under Proton updated, although it’s easier to launch from Brazil, but to catch the steps already maritime infrastructure.

    From Plesetsk launch LNG missiles. From union 2.1c, in several stages, this can be obtained with returned blocks.

    Under the first project financing through S7, Khruinichev and Moscow Region. Under the second Samara, Gazprom, Novatek.
  28. remal
    remal 17 June 2020 18: 49 New
    0
    + Proton start tables at Baikonur will be freed. Redo them under the "Energy" kerosene 2 * RD-170 + RD-180. In the East, respectively, only deal with hydrogen. Including for the upper stages of the union.
  29. Comrade Kim
    Comrade Kim 22 June 2020 02: 31 New
    0
    Quote: sav
    and about the video


    Here is the correct video:


  30. Siberian54
    Siberian54 22 June 2020 08: 35 New
    0
    What can I say, judging by the article, someone needed the land in Moscow, and in Siberia it will all start from zero, and the kickbacks as "Vostochny" confirmed are dangerous by the loss of time in the courts and the investigation, that’s overwritten.