Indian politician and economist: India will not be able to use the S-400, because there is Chinese electronics

Indian politician and economist, Doctor of Economics (degree obtained at Harvard University) Subramanyan Swami spoke about the Russian anti-aircraft missile systems S-400. According to Swami, the contract that the Narendra Modi government concluded with Russia in the amount of $ 5,43 billion "does not make much sense for India’s security."

How does Mr. Swami motivate such a statement?

According to him, the S-400 air defense system was created "using Chinese electronics," and "it is no accident" that China became the first foreign buyer of this air defense system.

From a statement by Professor Swami, who had previously worked in the Indian government:

Russia today is China’s junior partner. Precisely because the Chinese electronics are in the S-400, the Modi government should not use it, especially in a possible conflict with China.

According to Swami, “there is no need to use the S-400 and as protection against aviation Pakistan. " The professor recalls that Pakistan today is positioning itself as an ally of the PRC.

Subramanya Swami:

S-400 is beautiful in itself weaponbut using it against China and Pakistan will not work effectively.

And if S-400 is purchased not to protect against China and Pakistan, then why? - Ask the supporter of the professor’s ideas.

Further, the Indian politician and economist claims that the S-400 is a “compromised complex” in the sense that its acquisition brings US sanctions. Swami cites Turkey as an example, which the Pentagon excluded from the joint program to create a fifth-generation fighter F-35.

From an Indian professor post on Twitter:

Expect a lethal strike by US sanctions early next year due to the purchase of the S-400 from Russia.

At the same time, the Indian media themselves have expressed doubts about the fact that Chinese electronics are used on the S-400. In the Indian The Week, it is noted that it is not clear on what basis the professor makes his statements about the Chinese components of the Russian anti-aircraft missile system. At the same time, it is noted that Chinese electronics today is so widely distributed that it is "discovered" even on American military equipment. As an example, there are cases of counterfeit products from China for the American aircraft C-130J and P-8.

Swami in his material clearly expresses the interests of those who dissuade New Delhi from buying and deploying S-400 air defense systems.

Comments

[Lech from Android.]

I won’t be surprised if this Indian begins to advertise the US Patriots. business ... nothing personal.

[Alekseev]

This wise guy knows, and Indian military experts do not know.
Too often reviews appear in the VO type in China, they think, in India they think, etc. Who thinks there, who thinks? Incompetent selling magazines, as, unfortunately, sometimes with us.

[knn54]

INTEGRATED pressure, however.

[Prapor-527]

Nonsense is complete. The entire element base for the airspace is made in Russia and Belarus. I personally collect these boards.

[Buffet]

It depends on which module. And we are doing for the Su-57 and everything is American there. The boards are only Chinese.

[Mikhail Mikhin]

You can't "Patriots" - after all, according to the American press, the defense industry has entirely Chinese electronics, moreover, it is largely counterfeit. What to do? We must rely on our strength and there is a way out. A long time ago, the Indians flew on "Vimanas", and therefore most likely there was an ancient air defense and without any electronics. You just need to read the ancient books more carefully, study the epics between the lines again, decipher the Indian dances. Then everything will definitely work out.

[Yarhann]

It’s interesting purely for neighing that the Chinese are able to do this for the air defense system that they don’t do in Russia. The only thing that comes to mind that maybe from China there is the matrix of monitors. Examples of this fool are inappropriate - the Americans do not use Chinese electronics, but Chinese elements - they are loose, this is quite normal. Nobody will invent a bicycle because it makes no sense, a car of the necessary loose powder is easily purchased for the entire period of equipment operation and that’s all. Even when this loose powder is no longer produced in China, service engineers will have it.

[donavi49]

High-performance, low-TDP class military chips. No, of course not everyone there is 8-12 nm as in commercial ones. But 32-45nm against the standard for a hundred that Russia can produce.

[mvg]

high performance military class

Well, yes, the Russian Federation has already reached the level of 200-2003. Almost the third song, the level of Mendochino or Tualatin.

[Yarhann]

when developing such equipment, they always create their own mikruhi (for their functionality and characteristics); for such equipment, we have enough capacities and technological processes of 90-120nm; this is for consumer goods, large technical processes and piece production (custom functionality and characteristics), this is just for the military-industrial complex. To take the same Mikron which makes consumer goods and sells it around the world, then it’s stupid to say that in the Russian Federation they are not able to make mikruhi and controllers.

[Doliva63]

Quote: Yarhann

when developing such equipment, they always create their own mikruhi (for their functionality and characteristics); for such equipment, we have enough capacities and technological processes of 90-120nm; this is for consumer goods, large technical processes and piece production (custom functionality and characteristics), this is just for the military-industrial complex. To take the same Mikron which makes consumer goods and sells it around the world, then it’s stupid to say that in the Russian Federation they are not able to make mikruhi and controllers.

I got information on the network, as in the laptops of the RF Armed Forces accidentally found a "bookmark" that broadcast information as much as in Toronto - laptops, such as Russian production, but the "giblets" turned out to be Taiwanese production. It just made it easier to make money Capitalism: business, nothing personal.

[Yarhann]

Yes, nonsense, such laptops will not pass the certification of the FSB and the Moscow Defense Forces. Although maybe this is something not secret - then it is quite possible that anything was used there.

[Doliva63]

Quote: Yarhann

Yes, nonsense, such laptops will not pass the certification of the FSB and the Moscow Defense Forces. Although maybe this is something not secret - then it is quite possible that anything was used there.

This is "nonsense from the sun", where it was found. And they are not just certified - they are workers, they were handed over from the troops for repair.

[Campanella]

Is FSB certification a guarantee for you? The question is about specialists, bookmarks are made at the technological level, and even the FSB cannot guarantee their absence. A 100% guarantee is its own production, but Medvedev’s policy at one time suggested that it was easier to buy than to produce by yourself.

[shahor]

Quote: Campanella

but Medvedev’s policy at one time suggested that it was easier to buy than to produce by yourself.

No need to fantasize. Medvedev at one time tried to buy a line for the production of printed circuit boards. They refused. They even refused to sell the dismantled obsolete line for the production of boards for televisions.

[Campanella]

What nafig line? You believe Medvedev more!
If she needed to be got. Then the seals are secondary, the elemental base is more important. In the 80s, we had our own pilot production of up to 14 layers of molded board.

[Yarhann]

only a testing organization does my good certification, and not a manufacturer of something, a manufacturer can produce anything and tell what it is and how respectful and it doesn’t matter whether it is ours or foreign. Only certification gives a guarantee. This is what we do in the rest of the developed world. So yes, the certification of the FSB and Moscow Region is the only guarantee. At least in the Russian Federation.

[Campanella]

I am not talking about certification as such. I say that not a single FSB special guarantees bookmarks. This is simply unrealistic, unless you are in the know about real insider information. FSB and MO certification is given only for domestic developments on our own element base.

[Yarhann]

no one will give a guarantee to you on what base is not the FSB, not the CIA - certification is an authorization document. And so, vulnerabilities are revealed, as practice shows by amateurs and hackers, and in the process of long use and picking in hardware and software. Take an interest in information security and understand how vulnerabilities are found and how they are used, and then all questions and myths about bookmarks will disappear. If it would be so simple to close all the holes, then hackers would not exist.

[Campanella]

We are talking about different things, I'm talking about spy bookmarks at the production level, and not about software holes. A guarantee (certification) is given that the device will work and will not drain information or change its characteristics during operation.

[Yarhann]

my good all bookmarks this is software) without an executive code you will not merge anything anywhere. The execution code can be at a different level, from the application level of applications to BIOS - which is also software. Only data can have a bookmark.
Iron without software will never transfer anything anywhere; iron must be managed.
And this is where the very software vulnerabilities work, or the iron vulnerabilities that work with certain software, like the pop-up holes of AMD and Intel processes, but the holes are not in the process, because all this is easily treated with software patches). So you can fantasize about bookmarks as much as you like, but without an executive code, nothing will merge.
Making bookmarks for bricking equipment - and this is quite possible at the iron level - is the simplest microwave receiver with a decoder which, upon receipt of a certain encrypted signal, will turn on several transistors of the microcircuit and short-circuit the cable - as a result, it will burn out around dohren, the circuit may lose its full functionality. But this microwave signal has yet to reach, especially to military equipment where everything is tightly shielded.
So my good software, software and software again - all vulnerabilities are searched and used by hackers only there. Moreover, sometimes vulnerabilities are discovered after decades of software operation. The search for vulnerabilities in software is a permanent process.

[Campanella]

For military equipment, "abnormal" work of iron is enough, which can be started without any software, but simply say according to the conditions ... a timer, according to various sensors, which, again, can be easily entered into the crystal, so that my good software does not live alone. And then what software is in the S-400?
Can you imagine an algorithm for the operation of a military missile? There is no Windows, no android, and no other moore.

[Yarhann]

og of course in the C400 complex there is no computer)))) oh and the expert)))) yes boy you are infinitely far from the concept of what modern air defense systems and indeed the WTO. I’ll tell you a secret, but on-board computers have been on the entire WTO of the USSR’s weapons since the 70s and they work with software as it’s not strange))) because without computers there isn’t any)))

[Campanella]

I'm not a kid this time. But on-board computers are called special controllers and the software there is not the same as you describe here, and besides programmers' errors, which are usually debugged during development and testing, there are no "holes" in software, these are not network devices.

[Yarhann]

Yes, whatever you call))) in the software there are no holes and not network devices - this is strong)))

[Campanella]

You interfere with everything in a bunch. What are the hackers of local software? 300 and 400 systems were developed when there were no global networks and hackers. And RAM was measured in kilobytes. Now it is possible there is a vulnerability only in a bunch of several complexes to ensure operational efficiency, and I am sure that work is going on through closed channels with encryption. So your common judgments about the influence of the web on the operation of the anti-ballistic missile system are untenable. I’ve watched a movie and is reasoning like an expert ...)))

[Yarhann]

my you are good about bookmarks tryndet I did not start and the bazaar above was about certification of equipment of MO and FSB. So the drain is counted to you. While the connoisseur)))

[Campanella]

Strange you! They sang about the laptops and their certification, what do they have to do with the S-400 complexes?
You see, I’m really a connoisseur of knowledge, somewhere they grabbed something, but there is nothing to say on the topic. But keep this common phraseology with you if there is nothing to say in the case.
Microchips, microwave, amD, Intel ... on-board computers .... Baby talk ...

[Mountain shooter]

A favorite technique of unfair competition ... we launch the "fifth column". We paid for VAL publications, we form public opinion ... And how can you prove that there is no Chinese electronics? And what "bookmarks" are there in the complex? Gentlemen, well, this is more than secret information ... no one will reveal the specifications for the electronics of the complex ... Therefore, you can launch any fantasies on this topic - no one will refute them ...

[Campanella]

Why prove it? Where is our electronics? Yes, something else is being released, but frankly, I have not seen equipment on the Russian component base.
Zelenograd spanks chips for travel cards and that there can be a big question for the military, yes for the ground, and for flying objects not all electronics with a high degree of integration will go through military acceptance.

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: Campanella

Why prove it? Where is our electronics? Yes, something else is being released, but to be honest, I have not seen equipment on the Russian component base

I’ll tell you a secret, a lot of electronics are produced in Russia. And not only for travel and bank cards ... but who will give you statistics on military and space electronics? Some devices, for example, are bought by foreign companies in Russia, and then they don’t hesitate to solder in their cases and how to sell their products (Siemens, for example) ...

[Vita vko]

I wonder how much the US intelligence services paid (Subramanian Swami received his Ph.D. in economics from Harvard University) for a statement about the technology of Russian weapons, which is clearly beyond his competence. The stupidity of this statement is especially striking due to the fact that India has long been producing under license a huge amount of weapons developed in Russia. It turns out she also uses Chinese components. If there are a majority of such "professors" in India, then its economic and technological prospects will be very sad.

[Lech from Android.]

The Harvard University degree is already saying a lot.

[rocket757]

Great special to see, in everything and everything ..... there is nothing to discuss here.

[Zaurbek]

Do not buy ... sell to Pakistan.

[Doliva63]

Quote: Zaurbek

Do not buy ... sell to Pakistan.

China sells them there

[Zaurbek]

He sells his crafts .... but we can not yet.

[Doliva63]

Quote: Zaurbek

He sells his crafts .... but we can not yet.

Good "crafts", once sold.

[Zaurbek]

China makes anti-sanction products and has (gives the customer) anti-sanction financing.

[Doliva63]

Quote: Zaurbek

China makes anti-sanction products and has (gives the customer) anti-sanction financing.

Here, it would seem, yes? We are capitalists, they are communists. But it looks the other way around

[Zaurbek]

We do not indulge our own financing within our country.

[Doliva63]

Quote: Zaurbek

We do not indulge our own financing within our country.

Well, at the expense of "we" you got excited. In general, we have little to do with anything - just vote and pay taxes. The rest is without us.

[Doccor18]

degree obtained at Harvard University

And that's it.

[YuryPVO]

The comrade is not in the subject - the microcircuits on which the S-400 electronics are assembled are developed in the Russian Federation and the Republic of Belarus. And they were made in Taiwan, programmed in the Russian Federation. Bookmarks cannot be there, because in the production process it is not known where they will be placed, and input control exists. Opponents are right in one - there is no production of a modern electronic element base in the Russian Federation. ECB documentation is developed on Western programs, and the chips themselves are produced under a contract in Asia. Or Western chips, mainly the USA, are fully used.

[Yarhann]

And why do we have to produce them in Taiwan if we have our own production in the necessary technological processes? We are not talking about percent consumption. And the onboard computers of all modern technology have rather modest characteristics - simply because there is nothing special to work with. And the encoding of certain data is again conducted exclusively in hardware, this requires much more modest computing power than with software encoding.

[venik]

"....Indian politician and economist, Doctor of Economics (degree obtained at Harvard University) Subramanyan Swami spoke out about the Russian anti-aircraft missile systems S-400. .... "
========
Everything is clear: the next "grant-eater" has appeared .... And what is interesting: how and All of them - ALWAYS and EVERYTHING "know"!!!

[川 建国]

How can the S400 use Chinese electronics? If so, ask him to point to this electronic device. Indians who carry nonsense.

[Dmitry Makarov]

The Indian professor says everything correctly, India received S-400 complexes to destroy American-made aircraft. And in our region there is nothing to sow confusion, if the neighbors of India buy Russian and Chinese weapons, then we have common interests.

[Dmitry Makarov]

And by the way, let this Indian professor better look for Chinese electronics in American weapons, it’s just like the sea there.

[YuryPVO]

There is such a problem with both us and the Americans. In the 90s, after the collapse of the electronic industry in the CIS, imported electronic materials were massively embedded in our designs. Today, many components are discontinued and it is practically impossible to replace them with new ones, as the new electronic module was manufactured taking into account the reduction in size and power consumption in new buildings that cannot be installed during repair. Therefore, repairmen in both the Russian Federation and the United States are looking for removed components in Asia and China. This is a whole line of business. Well, the Chinese massively fake these products. In the best case, they work, but do not hold parameters, and in the worst case, it is a re-marker, i.e. on the case of microcircuits the necessary marking is applied and sold abroad, but the cases themselves either contain an absolutely random crystal, or even empty ones.

[mvg]

but the cases themselves either contain an absolutely random crystal, or are generally empty.

Brilliant.

[Yarhann]

that yes, too, neighing with this expert comment))) people fontast

[Joker62]

Why laugh? Over a dummy or relabeled chip?
I myself literally, a month ago, was faced with a fake from the narrow-eyed goats of the whales.
I ordered a couple of chips for repair, programmable - Atmega644AP, but in reality - a completely different type, because on the other side. was clearly laser-engraved from Taiwan, type Atmega324 without alphabetic indexes. Moreover, completely different frequencies and commands, well, that's another story.
So conclude that here Yuri wrote the whole truth. And I confirm this in my own skin.

[Yarhann]

and what do you think electronics companies (in the Russian Federation, the USA and other countries) buy loose powder how do you xs from whom and where - are you serious?

[Cyril G ...]

In the Indian The Week, it is noted that it is not clear on what basis the professor makes his statements about the Chinese components of the Russian anti-aircraft missile system.

Sucked from a finger ..

[APASUS]

Indian politician and economist, Doctor of Economics (degree obtained at Harvard University)

Who can be praised by a politician recruited in the United States who has received an American degree and education?
Is China or maybe Russian ..........

[ApJlekuHo]

Indian politician and economist, Doctor of Economics Subramanyan Swami spoke out about Russian S-400 anti-aircraft missile systems

Since when did the economists of India become specialists in electronics in Russian air defense? How much can the news paid by the West be distributed to VO?

[rotmistr60]

Doctor of Economics (degree obtained at Harvard University) Subramanyan Swami

Well, I would also be engaged in economics and not go into a field in which he does not understand. Warns of "death blow by sanctions" for the purchase, a liberal on the American salary he is also a liberal in India.

[Normal ok]

About the article. What is true is true.

[Mikhail3]

Well, he's right in general. Processors and peripherals, of course, are Chinese, and a little stolen in the United States. The only question is, will the Chinese want to "burn" their bookmarks, which, of course, are there? And how deeply have the Chinese gotten into American processor software? I think it's deep enough, but again - would they want to expose this fact?
Here, on the site, I had a dialogue with one of our electronics specialists, from which it became clear that it was a discovery for him that the American (and now Chinese) compiler can have much more functions than he, the great Russian specialist, has access to ... He just never thought about it. And with all that, he claimed to be working in the field of "Western electronics verification!"
Maybe he lied, but the current situation in this area is visible to the naked eye. Of course, some Soviet developments have survived somewhere. However, they, too, let's say, are not Soviet, but licked from Western, just very old chips. It is impossible to destroy engineers as a way of thinking and education as a method of formation and development of analytical thinking, and at the same time be kept in the forefront of human science and technology ...

[Yarhann]

yes, you’re the greatest specialist, my friend, especially in the development of air defense systems - Chinese processors) neighing thanks))), and the comprehensive word PERIPHERAL))) oh yes you discovered a conspiracy)))) BRAVO !!! I applaud STANDING!

[Mikhail3]

Sure! Be sure to stand! How could it be otherwise ... And where does the periphery come in capital letters? Actually, we had in mind planar elements, well, that is, radio components simply, which we also have not been releasing for a long time. Well, or, if you want, auxiliary elements on microcontrollers (according to Soviet microprocessors), which we also do not do ourselves ...

[Yarhann]

yes yes of course we don’t do the controllers))) in Chinese we collect military equipment)))) thank you laugh

[Mikhail3]

It is interesting that the three extreme miners would say, who were poured in the United States for the purchase of these same microcontrollers and planted for many years in a tour ...

[Yarhann]

I wonder how now our military-industrial complex without these controllers))))) probably all production has stopped))

[Mikhail3]

Well, it’s not that it got up, Just customers from abroad are refusing supplies. Because microcontrollers and processors that we do not manufacture ourselves have to be taken from household appliances. Microwaves, kettles, telephones ... But for consumer electronics, not such elements are taken as for the military. I advise you to read how exactly the quality is distributed during their production.
So, we don’t have military quality, because we ourselves produce only analogs of American processors from the 80s of the last century (we can check them), or we also rivet outdated ones, but younger, from the late 90s, but we can’t check them anymore.
All this somehow does not suit any Indians or Malaysians. They have nowhere to go, so you just need many, many replaceable units (which there are not so many) and a clear belief that electronics can fail at any time.
I didn’t want to shake my dirty laundry once again, but you were so eager ...

[Yarhann]

thank you no further))) already rzhachno about household processes and mikruhi in the military-industrial complex))) burn icho author)))

[Doliva63]

"It is impossible to destroy engineers as a way of thinking and education as a method of formation and development of analytical thinking, and at the same time keep in the forefront of human science and technology ..."
But how else to create democracy in this country? So the only way! And let other generations worry about the front rows This I interpreted the words of Mr. Chubais from the 90s in relation to our case. Nothing changed.

[Charik]

on what basis does the professor make his statements, on the basis of living in usa most likely

[Ugnetenni]

Quote: Charik

on what basis does the professor make his statements, on the basis of living in usa most likely

Most likely.. Nevertheless, Russian air defense is not taught by bitter experience and bullshit.

[Ded_Mazay]

Degree obtained at Harvard it is ... 3/4 of the cases comes complete with the "Stars and Stripes of the brain."

[Leonid Har]

Once in the Russian C400 there is Chinese electronics and because of this you should not rely on them, then the opinion of Subramanyan Swami should not be hoped either, since he has an American education. Therefore, he expresses the interests of those who gave him education and his words are worthless. Here is such a simple logic.

[an-sar]

Go down to the ground, who will now say and name the place where Russian microelectronics is grown and packaged without the use of Agilent equipment with a PP. To open your eyes visit the Raspletinsky readings. Shuttle is grown in Malaysia, the Chinese substrates, we only pack.

[GRANATE-19]

Another lover of green paper ...

[Dmitry Simakin]

Well, Pakistan will definitely not give up the S-400. Like other latest weapons systems of the Russian Federation and China ...

[Prisoner]

Look, the pro-pin-dosnik has gotten drunk. But not convincingly tweeting. Better dance.

[Nitarius]

and in the American .. there’s no Chinese type))) well, damn it)))

[doubovitski]

Not only defense ministers are soiled in the shit of corruption. But smaller fleas.
How did the criminal case with the French Rafals end there?

[doubovitski]

If India buys T-90, Sushki from Russia, then, therefore, India is Russia's junior partner? If you trace the entire chain of ties, then India is younger than China's youngest partner.

[Nunaxep]

Do not touch this Indian. He is from the untouchable caste. He can’t even touch the S-400 missile by the tail.

[Reverend]

Whether or not there is Chinese electronics in our complexes, this is not known to us. But the fact that you need your own elemental base is absolutely accurate. The packing density of the elements is growing, and we don’t know what is in the chips of the routers, but you can also hide the reset circuitry for ROM and RAM, the consequences !!!!!!!! - A reset signal will come over the Internet, from space, etc. In general, in the field of microelectronics, we have rather strange things happening. I personally saw the plasma displays of domestic production, the quality is excellent in 1984 ?, domestic CD ROM, with a capacity of 4 years, a glass substrate - 1989? In my opinion, there are two ways to go: to create an elemental base on new physical principles with several stable states and copy flint technologies. The operating system should be domestic in state structures.

[lvov_aleksey]

Quote: Reverend

Whether or not there is Chinese electronics in our complexes, this is not known to us. But the fact that you need your own elemental base is absolutely accurate. The packing density of the elements is growing, and we don’t know what is in the chips of the routers, but you can also hide the reset circuitry for ROM and RAM, the consequences !!!!!!!! - A reset signal will come over the Internet, from space, etc. In general, in the field of microelectronics, we have rather strange things happening. I personally saw the plasma displays of domestic production, the quality is excellent in 1984 ?, domestic CD ROM, with a capacity of 4 years, a glass substrate - 1989? In my opinion, there are two ways to go: to create an elemental base on new physical principles with several stable states and copy flint technologies. The operating system should be domestic in state structures.

I think our military scientists are not woodpeckers, they perfectly understand the "Yes" and "No" of foreign electronics: I myself am an engineer of electronic technology, I remember well what the electronics of the USSR was built on (for example: KT user 2T defense - transistors)
ps CT silicon, 2T germanium transistors

[misti1973]

What is he saying? Can't they figure out the purpose of certain contours? The principles are the same everywhere. Something he clearly does not say :)