Military Review

Chinese on relations with Russia

121

Chinese on Baikal


At the Zhi Hu forum, popular in China (translated: “Know!”), User Xu Shaocheng (徐绍诚), who often publishes various analytical materials, published on March 3, 2020 (that is, relatively recently, against the backdrop of an increasing US-Chinese confrontation) article entitled "What are the relations between Russia and China?" The content of this material is interesting, on the one hand, by the balancedness of the author’s assessments, which are far from official enthusiasm and nationalist blasphemy, and, on the other hand, by the frankness of the Chinese author.

The following is a translation of the text by Xu Shaocheng.

* * *


Russian-Chinese relations are briefly characterized as relations of strategic partnership. By paving the way for achieving their future in different ways, China and Russia, in principle, want the same thing from this future.

In a common example, China can be compared with a guy with money, and Russia with a red girl. China is looking tall, long-legged and pretty for marriage. Russia is pretty, but in her house she has a rolling ball, and she cannot boast of a prestigious education. So China does not close itself to Russia, choosing from others, from those who, besides beauty, have economy and money. Russia does not close itself to China, looking at other enviable suitors (literally: “Phoenix guys”), and it is looking for not just a boisterous, but certainly complaisant; China considers it not too frank and not very respectful of it. But at the same time, China and Russia together curse American imperialism, and this common theme for them is a guarantee of the inseparability of their relations.

Thus, the relationship between both sides comes down to the fact that neither of them can fully rely on the other, but neither can definitely do without the other.

Russia's plan to achieve its future is to control Europe, relying on its energy resources, and strengthen itself, "feeding on the blood of Europe." The plan of China to achieve its future is to, by implementing the Belt and Way initiative within the framework of the New Silk Road concept and using its industrial superiority, be strengthened through business cooperation with backward countries. In such a situation, when each side has its own plan of action, neither China nor Russia has any advantages or weaknesses in relations with each other.

Along with the large reserves of oil and natural gas in Russia, there are many uncultivated fields, but only trade in natural resources can make it rich.

Russia's weak point is the one-sidedness of its economic model. Russia relies on the sale of natural resources, but its economy is so backward that many Russian enterprises have long been abandoned or idle. The scale of production of many types of heavy industry products in Russia, for example, steel, can not be compared with the scale of production in China. Sell weapons so much as to boost its economy, Russia is also not able to. And for the sale of civilian products in Russia in the world there are no stable markets.

China has a powerful industrial base and huge opportunities for the industrialization of other countries, China is able to offer any country high-quality and attractively priced industrial products.

China lacks its own natural resources. Although China occupies one of the first places in the world in terms of cultivated land, most of the crop collected in the country goes to domestic consumption, and China is forced to import such raw materials as oil.

The Russian market is unable to consume China's industrial production, and therefore China is more likely to sell its industrial products, on the one hand, to states that are richer than Russia, such as the United States and European countries, and on the other hand, to states lower than Russia in terms of scientific and technological development, such as all kinds of "camps" and African states. In addition, the sale of Chinese industrial products to such backward countries creates the conditions for concluding with them the so-called agreements, the essence of which is that, for example, China builds a railway in a country and gives it to this country, but then to for 50 years it has been gaining a lot of money from the operation of the constructed railway.

But another problem arises. The US influence on half of such backward countries is stronger than the influence of Russia and China on them, therefore, if Russia and China prevent Americans from earning on the price difference in such countries, the United States can completely deprive Russia and China of the opportunity to conduct their business there.

However, China can also show itself to the Americans by importing most of its natural resources, the same oil, from countries that are subordinate to the United States or to which the United States gives its instructions, for example, from Angola, from Saudi Arabia (the “younger brother of the USA”), from Iraq or from Oman.

In general, to avoid deep stagnation in relations with the United States and Europe, China should not get too close to Russia. This is the balance of international relations for China.

Russia also does not seek to connect its fate only with China, although it has a more favorable geographical position and a more attractive international image than Russia. If Russia does not soon take control of the European energy market, in its economic development it will still lag behind China, and this lag will increase more and more.

In other words, for Russia, the rate of oil export should not be long-term, and the sale of oil is an instrument to increase its international status and improve its geopolitical position. In this sense, the decision to send Russian troops to the Middle East was optimal, and cooperation with Turkey on the construction of an oil pipeline is aimed at increasing the share of Russian energy supplies to Europe.

In a word, the current state of Sino-Russian relations is such that the weakening of US control over China, the weakening of the US’s confrontational policy towards China, will lead China to become distant from Russia. Conversely, as the US's confrontational policy toward China intensifies, China will be forced to be closer to Russia.

When the United States reaches a certain “point” in its pressure on China, China will inevitably enter into an alliance, an alliance with Russia, because the Americans simply will not leave him any other choice.

In Russia, the situation is not quite the same as in China. Yes, America is also putting pressure on Russia, and the United States is doing this because Russia's state strategy challenges American hegemony. In response, Russia is only able to show its teeth, observing changes in the international situation. But when the situation reaches a point, Russia will no longer have a way back, turning back then for it will be tantamount to death.

In a word, the option of a bilateral alliance, the union of China and Russia cannot be ruled out, but whether such an option is realized or not will depend entirely on how far American imperialism will go in its hostile plans, when in its pressure it reaches the point after which China and Russia will do as they see fit.

(When the confrontation with the United States reaches a point in China, the Chinese author argues, China will find salvation for itself in an alliance with Russia, that is, it will actually agree to become a slave, because in the Chinese sense, “union” is always the relationship between the leader and the follower, senior and junior , one who submits, and one who submits. In other words, for the sake of its own survival, China is ready to sacrifice even the principles of "independence" and "independence" so valuable to it in relations with Russia. It is interesting that the Chinese author does not even consider the option of "salvation" Russia by China in the event that the confrontation with the Americans reaches a point now even with her, giving Russia the opportunity somehow, without China, to decide her fate in a hypothetical battle with America. - A. Sh.).

Today, American imperialism is stepping up its pressure step by step, and China and Russia are drawing closer together. For example, in 2018, the volume of their bilateral trade increased by about 30% compared to 2017. Military exercises were conducted in China, Russia and Iran.

Regarding the long-term prospects of Sino-Russian relations, I am positive. For before Russia establishes final control over Europe, it will never begin to conflict with China. As for China, for a fairly long term, it will need only Russian food and Russian natural resources, to some extent - military cooperation with Russia.

I am inclined to see American imperialism weakening. However, if he does not burst himself, Russia will not be able to drive him out of Europe.

Thus, over a long time, relations between Russia and China will certainly range from the “formal proximity” of the two countries to their “alliance”.

* * *


After reading this material by a Chinese author, I became even stronger in the long-acquired knowledge: China's approach to relations with Russia is distinguished by naked pragmatism, sometimes bordering on selfish consumerism. Seeing Russia as the only support in the confrontation with ruthless America, China is ready to tolerate Russia's economic failure and its subconscious distrust of its eastern neighbor. It is precisely because of the growing confrontation with the United States and for no other reason that China is now increasingly showing friendliness to Russia, and in a critical situation, it turns out that it even admits an “alliance” with it.

It is also noteworthy that the confrontation of China with the United States, as well as its rapprochement with Russia, are exclusively forced processes for China. In fact, it would probably be much more interesting for China to get closer to a successful and rich America, rather than to an unsuccessful Russia. And only harsh reality compels him to be at enmity with someone who is dear to his heart, and to get closer to someone who causes a feeling of internal disgust.

That is why, deciding to be friends with China, it is necessary to take into account not only its state solidarity with Russia in dislike of “American imperialism”, but also its genuine, exclusively situational approach to “strategic partnership” with it.
Author:
Photos used:
Natalya Kollegova (Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky)
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  1. Far B
    Far B 13 June 2020 05: 05 New
    33
    For China, relations are definitely beneficial: ours are easily inferior to that of farmland, that of raw materials / energy at a low price. And the Chinese enterprises for processing raw materials allow them to build on very favorable terms. But because, like, investment. After all, we have an economic hobbyist on investments. Moreover, it is in foreign countries. It is not comme il faut to invest some money in the country's economy - state investments are not the right investments. So while the current political model is in effect in Russia, China can sleep peacefully: we will provide it with resources. Even to the detriment of their citizens.
    1. Snail N9
      Snail N9 13 June 2020 05: 31 New
      41
      The Chinese have one peculiarity - they are extremely insensitive to other cultures, however, like the Japanese. Extremely selfish. When they get to another country, they do not mix with other nationalities, but immediately isolate themselves within their communities, building "tea town", where they continue to live according to their own laws. The Chinese is such a "friend" that you don't need enemies either.
      1. carstorm 11
        carstorm 11 13 June 2020 05: 35 New
        -20
        Well, where do we have Chinatowns in our country?) They live with us quite a lot. name the address even look)))
        1. l7yzo
          l7yzo 13 June 2020 05: 52 New
          17
          For example Chinatown in St. Petersburg: Why do the Chinese buy real estate on Vasilievsky Island and what will happen next.
          Yekaterinburg - Near the Tagansky market, On the technical.

          Well, you need to understand - this is not a day to build. And why do you think Europe lapel turned China? Yes, and Africa is already trying to throw him away ??
          1. carstorm 11
            carstorm 11 13 June 2020 06: 27 New
            -4
            I haven’t been there for a long time. now there is a reason)
            1. Tatyana
              Tatyana 13 June 2020 11: 04 New
              +9
              It is necessary to shoot all those Russian officials who lease Russian land and sell our country to FOREIGNERS!
              In China, the authorities are doing just that! The court - confiscation, prison, execution.
              And in the Russian Federation, such officials are "respected" people who, according to the new Constitution of the Russian Federation, want to be registered as Russian life "peers" in English.

              The trouble of Russia is that in the power of the Russian Federation, in fact, there is no Russian - the historically main state-forming - the national elite!
              USSR / RF since Vel. Oct social revolutions have turned into a state of national minorities, in which the country has its own national apartments and small-town bureaucratic national-titular consumer interests.
              1. SOVIET UNION 2
                SOVIET UNION 2 13 June 2020 12: 14 New
                +7
                To shoot? Putin already seems to have answered this question. We are not the 37th year! Who will I work with? Their work suits me! About the thefts! Today, even the lazy does not discuss the topic of thefts! The principle of determining theft to disgrace is simple! Stole a little-in prison! Stole a lot in politics! The cut-off threshold is many, few 40 million. After 40 million the crime is not found. Of course they can plant. But this is a purely territorial showdown on the division of the clearing. Cursed Americans have narrowed the feed base and have to remove excess mouths! You can certainly yell that Russia is a great country! But what did Russia do wrong for the US in response to its sanctions? Well, or ahead of the United States a step forward and introduced something against the United States? Why do the damned USA do something against Russia, and Russia is stupidly silent and turns all her cheeks to whipping? Is it masochism or Faberge so squeezed in a vise?
              2. Crane
                Crane 14 June 2020 15: 17 New
                0
                It is necessary to shoot all those Russian officials who lease Russian land and sell our country to FOREIGNERS
                -----------
                Well, I’m quietly renting it out? Laws allow. That's the whole point. So, why shoot it?
                1. Tatyana
                  Tatyana 14 June 2020 16: 32 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Crane
                  Well, I’m quietly renting it out? Laws allow. That's the whole point. So, why shoot it?

                  And who writes and adopts laws? Not hired civil servants?
                  And in violation of the laws themselves, local officials are leasing Russian lands to foreigners!
                  There, on the coast of Lake Baikal, Chinese entrepreneurs on rented Russian lands polluted everything and pump water from Lake Baikal to China for free.
                  1. gsev
                    gsev 15 June 2020 00: 30 New
                    0
                    Quote: Tatiana
                    water from Baikal is pumped to China for free.

                    From Baikal to the Chinese border about 1000 kilometers in a straight line. And the water must be raised several hundred meters. When transporting at such a distance, the water will be saturated with iron from the pipe above the MPC. Isn’t it easier for the Chinese to download it from Argun and Amur or from the Sungarian swamps?
                    1. Tatyana
                      Tatyana 15 June 2020 01: 25 New
                      -1
                      Quote: gsev
                      From Baikal to the Chinese border about 1000 kilometers in a straight line. And the water must be raised several hundred meters. When transporting at such a distance, the water will be saturated with iron from the pipe above the MPC. Isn’t it easier for the Chinese to download it from Argun and Amur or from the Sungarian swamps?

                      BAIKAL - SOLD. Putin’s power sold Lake Baikal to China. • Mar 11 2018 year


                      Baikal was sold to the Chinese.
                      1. gsev
                        gsev 15 June 2020 02: 18 New
                        0
                        In my opinion it is 100% fake and it seems very old. There is overt stupidity in the top film. In order to deliver water to Lanzhou from Lake Baikal, the Chinese need to raise it for a kilometer and stretch it for 2000 kilometers. The project would require electricity costs of the order of all hydroelectric power stations of the USSR. Geography says that it’s easier for the Chinese to transfer water from the Mekong to the Yangtze, and from the Yangtze to the Yellow River. Water will flow by gravity, and on its way you can still make a cascade of hydroelectric power stations. The second film is about bottling mineral water. 150 people will be able to pour from 200 tons of water per day and take them to train stores. This is enough for a third of the Irkutsk region. . No one else is lucky with this water. Even Coca-Cola pours drinks from local water even in Russia, even in Iran (brand Zam Zam).
                      2. Tatyana
                        Tatyana 15 June 2020 02: 34 New
                        +1
                        The first video - I always try not to forget to indicate the time of its publication - from 11.03.2018. And the project on the text of the video will be fully implemented in 2021.
                        I don’t know these places and I can’t say anything about the local conditions for the technical implementation of the project.
                        Maybe there is a power station on the Chinese side.
                        I think that the problem of lack of FRESH water for China is most important there.

                        For example, in Ukraine, Ukrainians blocked the FRESH water from the water utility to the Russian Crimea - and an environmental disaster is brewing in Crimea now.

                        There will be little good from this Chinese project with Baikal.
                        The Chinese will get used to receiving water from Russian Baikal and then they will not be repelled from Baikal. Moreover, they will eventually dictate their conditions there to us.
                        And if any political friction arises between China and the Russian Federation, then they will be resolved from the Chinese side on Lake Baikal only by the ARMED route. The Chinese will not stop it.
                2. Reptiloid
                  Reptiloid 15 June 2020 15: 57 New
                  +1
                  ....... free download to China .......

                  Good afternoon, Tatiana! hi With the increase in industry, more and more WATER is required !!!!!!!!! A similar option was described by Kir Bulychev on the planet Zhelezyaka and Clifford Saymak on ... Earth!
                  The Chinese traditionally consider Siberia and the Far East as theirs. They mentioned this in their annals in the XII century., They took yasak. But the Chinese people themselves hated, experienced oppression from them --- Nanai, Nivkhi, Ude, Beldy, Orochi, Ulchi and many others !!! Until now, in the tales of these peoples there is a description of the revenge of these peoples to the Chinese for their villainy! The Chinese took the people into slaves, took away property and even hunting equipment, using puppets from the local! And in the XNUMXth century, these small nations, peace-loving pagans, were subjected to bloody raids by the Hunhus.
            2. CBR600
              CBR600 17 June 2020 11: 28 New
              0
              mmm .... In the process, that which I sincerely respected hi . Please do not be so radical. In order to survive, having at least something, you need to either sell it or rent it out. The budget needs to be filled with something. What to do if officials and judges do not work. Who was the thread in arbitration? They do not study materials there. They take a high-profile article and issue a verdict. The essence of each person is to do nothing and eat a lot of tasty food.
              It’s hard to work. And for our s / n, let’s all go to the forest! There, the businessmen have bred, let them work! And so that life would not seem to them honey, sticking sticks into the wheels would not make LABOR.
              An article about our economy and the weaknesses of the country as a whole. And how every day is getting worse. And China is not our friend at all. Russia has no friends except ....
        2. Normal ok
          Normal ok 13 June 2020 09: 43 New
          +2
          Quote: l7yzo
          And why do you think Europe lapel turned China?

          Angela Merkel’s last speech at the intra-German economic forum boiled down to the need to build relations with China as partner number 1. Look at Deutsche Welle.
          1. SOVIET UNION 2
            SOVIET UNION 2 13 June 2020 12: 31 New
            +5
            Well excuse me! What assortment of goods can China provide, and what is Russia !? Readers WHERE order goods? On-line products from China, or on-line products from Russia? If you compare the list of goods from Russia and from China? Who is the leader? Great Russia or backward China? Is China stupidly copying? And who prevents stupidly copy Russia? If Russia is a Great Power, then there should be more goods from Russia than from China! Or not? If China is so backward, why are all the goods from China and not from Russia? If Russia is a Great Power, it should not care at all! Especially for some kind of copying! In Russia, they collect something according to their technologies! Hooray!? Preschoolers also collect pictures from cubes! What are we? Must be proud that Russia has a level of preschoolers ?! Well, just a scribe! And full! Some pride bursts straight that they can assemble a picture from cubes! Feel free to rate! We’ll even find out what percentage of preschool children we have! Personally, I am disgusted to be a preschooler! But some developed beyond their years are simply delighted with this!
            1. Crane
              Crane 14 June 2020 15: 22 New
              0
              Readers WHERE order goods? On-line products from China, or on-line products from Russia?
              -------------------
              Yaroslavl ordered sneakers. Mounted shelves, I don’t remember whose, ours.
              Technique, electro, here, of course ....
      2. 41 REGION
        41 REGION 13 June 2020 06: 49 New
        +9
        Well, where do we have Chinatowns in our country?)
        Everywhere starting in Moscow, and Moscow has its own underground production, and then sellers tell us that things are made in Russia, though they don’t say that the Chinese wink
        1. carstorm 11
          carstorm 11 13 June 2020 07: 41 New
          0
          there are not Chinese but Vietnamese for the most part.
      3. To be or not to be
        To be or not to be 13 June 2020 07: 09 New
        +1
        1. "19 Jan 2017, 16:32 13 042

        Putin gave Shaimiev a map of the XNUMXth century with ancient Tartaria
        President Vladimir Putin met with the first president of Tatarstan, Mintimer Shaimiev, on the eve of his 80th birthday. In this regard, Putin gave him a map of the ancient Tartaria of the XNUMXth-century Dutch cartographer Willem Blau. This was reported by the Kremlin press service.

        The map shows the territory of Eurasia from the Volga and the Caspian Sea to the ocean in the east. Siberia, Central Asia and the Far East on the map are under the rule of the great khan. Also on the map are marked the border lands of the Russian kingdom, Persia, the Kingdom of the Great Mughals and the Chinese kingdom. Blau served with the Dutch East India Company "

        https://www.rbc.ru/rbcfreenews/5880bd579a79473f7fd5fe68
        Here, probably, a doublet shot ....
        2.15 2019 June

        Russian President Vladimir Putin congratulated Chinese President Xi Jinping on his 66th birthday and presented him with a chest of Russian ice cream. "

        Putin’s gifts are always a hint. China I think it understands ...
        3. Yes, and "Power of Siberia" is a geopolitical project ... On the prospect "Power of Siberia-2"
        https://russian.rt.com/inotv/2019-12-17/Le-Monde-Sila-Sibiri-
        "Geopolitics is a science or system of knowledge about the control of
        space.
        It is no coincidence that German geopolitics liked to repeat that geopolitics
        - this is the spatial mind of the state. "
        1. Andrey Krasnoyarsky
          Andrey Krasnoyarsky 14 June 2020 13: 48 New
          +1
          Willem Blau, like all European geographers and cartographers of that time, had not been to Siberia and had a very vague idea of ​​what was there. So they sculpted a certain Tartary, led by someone unknown and inhabited by someone unknown. But throughout the 17th century, Siberia was passed from end to end by Russian Cossacks, service people, industrialists and explorers. And they did not meet any "great khans" there, they did not see any Tartaria, but they encountered many heterogeneous tribes and peoples at an extremely low level of development. Therefore, tiny Russian detachments, without much straining, annexed a gigantic territory to Russia, having met serious resistance only in some areas. And so they reached China, where they encountered the first real state, which did not let the Russians go any further.
      4. blackice
        blackice 13 June 2020 07: 48 New
        10
        Vladivostok is a China city.
        Vladivostok - Sports
        Ussuriysk - Night Market
        Ask any local resident and they will show you the way.
    2. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins 13 June 2020 06: 57 New
      +8
      If anyone had translated at least the comments of this article to the Chinese, they would also have gone crazy about the multifaceted attitude of Russians towards the Chinese! laughing It's me that focusing on the opinion of one user is not grateful!
      1. Lyuba1965_01
        Lyuba1965_01 13 June 2020 10: 04 New
        +4
        And I agree with the author of the article, and the events that take place fully confirm that he is right.
        You shouldn't be offended by China for such a pragmatic approach to Russia. Whether we like it or not, they have their own country and they should think about it first of all. There are not “our” elites and not “our” leadership, which thinks first of all about themselves and not about the country.
    3. SOVIET UNION 2
      SOVIET UNION 2 13 June 2020 11: 58 New
      +3
      When they get to another country, they do not mix with other nationalities, but immediately isolate themselves within their community, building "China Towns", where they continue to live according to their own laws.
      So what's wrong with that? In Russian, the Chinese do not bend and do not substitute their asses for others! This is bad? It's a shame? So don't do it? It is imperative to bend and surrender under all? Well, the Union caved in under Gorbachev and surrendered! What? Has it gotten better? The country began to be greatly respected and appreciated? They gave all the social bloc and the union republics. How did our partners rate it? How to force? How is weakness? How stupid? Or how is wisdom? How do our partners evaluate the attempts of Russia to like them? You can of course evaluate our relations with partners as Allegrova. Well, I (gave everything) gave him (the West), Well (I gave everything) gave him! He was my crystal dream! Well, what is criminal about ?! China what? Should you adapt or bend your line? The United States has adapted to a lot of people? Russia bent very well. And who is building whom? Trump threw the slogan - Make America Great! In Russia, there are no such slogans. Is greatness a shame? The Russian leadership seems to be refusing to make Russia an Empire! Being an Empire sucks? Having imperial symbols, Russia does not pretend at all on the territory of the USSR and RI. Do we have plans to shrink to the size of the Principality of Moscow? All this is strange! Or does Russia not need Great Russia or the Russian Empire? Does Russia want to be a small regional country? Our leadership seems to have voiced its desire to make Russia a regional country. Youtube fans think I’ll find this statement without any problems.
  2. carstorm 11
    carstorm 11 13 June 2020 05: 33 New
    -16
    Foreign investment is not just money that is invested in the country's economy. it’s also the technologies that come with them. story with Siemens turbines recall? the state has limited opportunities in this, because it must first of all fulfill its functions. this is how China developed. foreign direct investment in production. why is it good for them, but we don’t need this for you ?! China is pragmatic and this is a fact, but nothing prevents us from looking at relations just as pragmatically.
    1. l7yzo
      l7yzo 13 June 2020 05: 54 New
      +7
      That's why so many countries in the world have a different mentality.
    2. Far B
      Far B 13 June 2020 06: 02 New
      +9
      it’s also the technologies that come with them. A story with Siemens turbines recall?
      Yes, I will be grateful for the reminder. Especially from the place where we started making turbines using Siemens technology.
      1. carstorm 11
        carstorm 11 13 June 2020 06: 26 New
        -12
        Siemens, which has submitted an application to the Ministry of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation to conclude a SPIC, is ready to completely localize the production of high-power gas turbines in Russia by mid-2023, said the President of Siemens in Russia Alexander Liberov in an interview with RIA Novosti at the Innoprom international industrial exhibition.
        1. Far B
          Far B 13 June 2020 06: 50 New
          14
          To localize in Russia or transfer production technologies to Russia? You do not see the difference at all, or what?
          1. carstorm 11
            carstorm 11 13 June 2020 07: 47 New
            -2
            I said somewhere to transfer technology? who will give them to you for free?) I said technology comes and not given. full localization makes it possible to work with them and produce here a full cycle. to study. not depend on third parties. the market for these turbines is huge even in our market, but we ourselves did not produce them. Siemens and Power Machines created the Interturbo joint venture in 1992. After 20 years, it was renamed Siemens Gas Turbine Technology. At first, the joint venture was assembling gas turbines with a capacity of 160 MW under the license of Siemens at the Leningrad Metal Plant, and since 2015, at a new production facility in the village of Gorelovo. By the way, the license is also there, but I’ve talked about something else. about access to these technologies. don’t invest Siemens in this production; where do you want to take these turbines from then on?
            1. Far B
              Far B 13 June 2020 07: 55 New
              +7
              full localization allows
              it gives opportunity only with the goodwill of the giver. The same goes for access to high technology. But in fact, so far we have not high technology, but a high-tech product. And for their very considerable money. The difference is palpable.
              1. carstorm 11
                carstorm 11 13 June 2020 08: 00 New
                -9
                Provided that we finalize the work on the SPIC in the coming months, then yes, mid-2023. As soon as the contract is signed, we are ready to place orders with our suppliers literally the next day. This is a whole production pool of companies to which we transfer technologies for the production of gas turbine components, "he answered the question of whether the localization of the hot section production by mid-2023 means 100% localization of the turbine production during this period.
                The hot path (fuel combustion chambers and gas turbine blades) is a key technology in the production of turbines for thermal power plants, which manufacturers rarely transfer to new partners or to other countries. Oleg Titov, director of the "Energy and Gas" department at Siemens, explained to RIA Novosti earlier that only six enterprises in England, Germany and the USA carry out blades for Siemens. these are the words of the head of Siemens in Russia. As you can see, everything is fine with the transfer of technology. this is how investments work. and a huge power plant modernization program was launched last year. there is something about two trillion rubles.
                1. Far B
                  Far B 13 June 2020 08: 07 New
                  +8
                  as you can see, everything is fine with technology transfer
                  nope, I don't see. Let's wait until 23rd year when it all really works. In the meantime, these are only good intentions and beautiful words. In addition, in the quote you quoted, there is an alarming "provided". When I hear this phrase, I immediately have an attack of mistrust, excuse me.
                  1. carstorm 11
                    carstorm 11 13 June 2020 08: 12 New
                    -1
                    I just gave you an example of the benefits of direct investment.
                2. Lyuba1965_01
                  Lyuba1965_01 13 June 2020 10: 11 New
                  +3
                  Here the problem is not even in technology. What technology should they give if they give us the old ones, having received considerable preferences for this, and in return come up with new, better ones, and we will again be in the role of catching up.
                  The thing is different: they create their own enterprises on our territory, using only our cheap slave force, as in a third world country, so in fact this is their factory, not ours.
                  So it turns out that we give them our territories, we are allowed to spoil our territory, spoil our ecology by receiving glass beads in return.
                  If we talk about the economy, then there is little benefit.
                  They take all the profits to themselves, here paying only taxes.
                  Employment?
                  Also no. With modern technologies, to service even a medium-sized enterprise, it is no longer necessary 10000 workers, but 100 people. So there are few jobs.
                  1. carstorm 11
                    carstorm 11 13 June 2020 11: 11 New
                    -3
                    this is a joint venture. and catching up ... well, there are no countries in the world that do not use other people's technologies. no and never will. we did not build such turbines. but they are needed. now needed and not someday.
                    1. Lyuba1965_01
                      Lyuba1965_01 13 June 2020 11: 34 New
                      +2
                      Yes, everyone uses someone else’s technology. But after all, developed countries are developed and that they have their own high advanced technologies. But now we do not have any at all, except for old-fashioned ones.
                      I consider it incorrect to talk about technologies in the military-industrial complex and defense industry, because all this is still Soviet developments and developments, only modernized.
                      I can also say as a woman, a hostess: tell me, where can I buy a Russian mixer, a blender, a Russian washing machine, a vacuum cleaner, air conditioning, a TV, a computer or a laptop?
                      No, not Chinese or some other assembly in Russia, namely ours, domestic?
                      Well, so that "inside and out" were our developments, technologies, production?
                      And without any foreign investors, so that our manufacturers would create and finance all this?
                      Or, buying this petty equipment, should I thereby finance any countries and industrialists, but not mine?
                    2. carstorm 11
                      carstorm 11 13 June 2020 17: 08 New
                      -3
                      they have developed these technologies for decades. one followed the other. First, in the USSR, we scored a lot and then chaos in the country. in fact, we are now trying to go the same way as others but in a much shorter time. but it is much more expensive and not a fact of what happens.
                    3. Lyuba1965_01
                      Lyuba1965_01 13 June 2020 21: 47 New
                      +3
                      Most likely, we will not be able. Those who depend on these developments are reluctant to invest with the result in a year. They now need as much dough as possible. And these developments do not pay off in a year. Now we are just lagging behind, and at that time we will not be just lagging behind, but at the level of primary communal technology while the world will own absolutely fantastic technologies. Roughly speaking, we will use digging sticks and others will do everything with the help of nanotechnology. Speaking of them, dear ones. We will always and hopelessly lag behind in these technologies, because what can we expect from Chubais!
                  2. Crane
                    Crane 14 June 2020 15: 35 New
                    +1
                    I can also say as a woman, mistress: tell me, where can I buy a Russian mixer
                    ===========
                    Hostess a note smile
                    Among domestic manufacturers, the Russian-made mixer Ladomir is popular. The Russian-made mixer is not inferior in terms of technical characteristics to foreign analogues.
                    Not an advertisement ...
                3. SOVIET UNION 2
                  SOVIET UNION 2 13 June 2020 13: 01 New
                  0
                  There was a time, we didn’t split the atom, and we didn’t fly into space! Why then could, but not today?
            2. Nemchinov Vl
              Nemchinov Vl 14 June 2020 01: 26 New
              0
              Quote: carstorm 11
              this is how investments work.
              not - her - aa (!) So suckers "shoe" !!... When they had the USSR and they had their own "Zarya-Mashproekt" (!), which produced for the entire Union of gas turbine engines for gas pumping stations, for ship power plants and thermal power plants (!)... and then two brothers quarrel и divide (!). The first with technological equipment but without a sales market, gradually loses competence and withers to almost zero, and the second is left without the high-tech engines he needs, and gives up the currency "exorbitantly" foreign Siemens .... (!)
              For example, China, bought licenses for the right to assemble German ship diesels MTU and Ukrainian gas turbine engines UTG-2500, and began their production under license in its territory, and in its enterprises under the index QQ-280 (!)... Here is an example А) - technology acquisitions (!), Б) - the right investment in your own economy (!)....
              After the in-place production of power plants was already localized on its territory and set up (for example, 052D type EM from these components), the shipbuilding program was launched (!). As a result of this program alone, for the construction of one type 052D EM, with a displacement of 7500 tons, they take 3,5-4 years MAXIMUM (!).
              To give you an example, and the timing of the implementation of our shipbuilding programs, with a similar power plant ?! ...?!
        2. SOVIET UNION 2
          SOVIET UNION 2 13 June 2020 12: 59 New
          +2
          The transfer of technology to the host country indicates that science and education in this country came full kirdyk! The country is not able to train its personnel and create technologists! And there are still people who are delighted with this !? Stunned! Has Russia fallen too low that it itself is not able to create anything? It’s not disgusting yourself that Russia is selling technology? Why isn't Russia selling technology? Is insanity getting stronger? All the best is there, but we ourselves suck? The pride of Russia to consider himself sucks? Well! Well! Rus give up! You will be milky, egg, technology! Hooray! I now have milk, egg, technology !!! I hate this kind of psychology!
          1. Golovan Jack
            Golovan Jack 13 June 2020 14: 19 New
            -6
            Yes, you have a tantrum, my dear ...
          2. carstorm 11
            carstorm 11 13 June 2020 17: 09 New
            -1
            you are like a child) no. not ashamed. USSR technology and bought and mined abroad. and now is it possible? it’s impossible to be able to do and produce everything.
  3. vVvAD
    vVvAD 13 June 2020 11: 25 New
    0
    And they started to do according to their technology only when a competitive development of domestic production appeared. Otherwise, in the long run, Siemens would be completely squeezed out of our market. Although, the interruption of cooperation with Siemens would cause problems here and now.
    And then: in addition to foreign and domestic state investments, there are also domestic private investments. In Stalin's time, this was practiced. Now this can be done through corporatization, cooperatives and mutual funds. Only to make it work, it should become interesting for the state. And with this yet "no, have not heard."
    1. carstorm 11
      carstorm 11 13 June 2020 17: 11 New
      -1
      too many risks.
      1. vVvAD
        vVvAD 13 June 2020 17: 39 New
        +1
        Maybe. But foreign direct investment is fraught with certain risks. RUSAL as an example.
        Domestic investments are safer, although more difficult to implement, but this is actually a matter of economic justification and the quality of the development of the respective programs. Well - finally, state priorities.
        The very same China has now chosen just such a path.
  • LeonidL
    LeonidL 13 June 2020 05: 58 New
    12
    The Russian-Chinese business in Kirovsky: a ruthlessly centuries-old forest is cut down, there are branches, stumps, torn land, trunks are exported without any processing to China, from there the boards come to the Ikeya plant and they make furniture from them. This is instead of making the PKD nearby and giving work to the local population and arrived in the country.
    1. kjhg
      kjhg 13 June 2020 06: 29 New
      15
      Quote: LeonidL
      The Russian-Chinese business in Kirovsky: a ruthlessly centuries-old forest is cut down, branches, stumps, torn land remain, trunks are exported without any processing to China, from there boards come to the Ikeya plant and they make furniture from them.

      Here are some bad radishes these Chinese. And most importantly, our authorities do not know anything about this, probably? You should at least write a letter to the unprincipled, for whom SO diligently drowned here the day before yesterday. I am sure that he would immediately resolve this issue as soon as he found out. Well, not satellite images of the cut down taiga, as well as the appeals of the media and local residents, he needs to be trusted, after all. Do you agree? But you are still in a sense your man, a supporter вedra, so to speak.
      Quote: LeonidL
      This is instead of making the MLC nearby and giving work to the local population and the country's profit.

      Believe me, you yourself will be the first to howl if the Chinese place any production near you. Because in their place remains scorched, poisoned earth. Our local authorities planned to give the Chinese several large plots of agricultural land in our region, followed by the construction of dairy plants. What just did not promise the people. So last year we barely fought off such a generous gift. Thanks to the people who stood united to defend their land.
      1. Ragnar Lodbrok
        Ragnar Lodbrok 13 June 2020 06: 51 New
        24
        The greenhouses of the Chinese are something with something .. The Chinese grow everything on our lands, from cucumbers to watermelons. Several crops are harvested per year. Technologies are used at the same time, Chinese. And what kind of technologies are these, you can understand from this fact: in China itself today, about 40% of arable land has already been withdrawn from agricultural use - fertilizers and pesticides used to increase yields, kill the earth. Here they are to us and go "to be friends", such friends under yellow hands, and to the museum.
        1. edmed
          edmed 13 June 2020 08: 11 New
          10
          Quote: Ragnar Lothbrok
          Chinese greenhouses are something with something

          I will not talk about the Chinese, I will say about ours, a small Siberian town, surrounded by a heap of "sawmills", where hectares are littered with "macaroni" and sawdust, where there are announcements - "Firewood pasta-free, self-pickup", in a conversation with ours ... menami- "Guys, free raw materials on your feet, bend over, pick up, answer-" belay Ears overeat ?! How much is the equipment, land, building, communal apartment, approval, and other other! And then they’ll squeeze it all out of you. Yes, burn it all, we have removed the cream, the rest, your problems! The Chinese, at home, would put every sliver into action, if we treat ourselves like that, then what is the demand from the Chinese that they leave us with the surviving land?
          1. edmed
            edmed 13 June 2020 08: 28 New
            +1
            Oh, put a minus sign, also with ..men? And there’s nothing to answer? wink
          2. Andrey Krasnoyarsky
            Andrey Krasnoyarsky 14 June 2020 13: 52 New
            0
            So you have been told more than once on this forum: if our hands grow from the back priests and we are not able to equip our own land. it is China's fault. Well or damn s. Just not us.
      2. Insurgent
        Insurgent 13 June 2020 08: 04 New
        +2
        Quote: kjhg
        Believe me, you yourself will be the first to howl if the Chinese place any production near you. Because in their place remains scorched, poisoned earth.

        Excuse me, why an enterprise "by definition"should be Chinese, not Russian?"

        Your hands are growing out of the wrong place, your head does not work, there is no money in the "money boxes"?

        EVERYTHING IS ! So why put your trust in someone who "will come and do everything"?
        1. Lyuba1965_01
          Lyuba1965_01 13 June 2020 10: 17 New
          +7
          Yes, because if the same enterprises in one district want to open both a local and a foreigner, then preference and all preferences will be given to a foreigner, and 7 local skins will be torn from the local and naked will be allowed across the steppe.
          Also, as far as I know, foreign pedagogues have some kind of tax incentives, and in doing business they have much more benefits than the local one.
          1. edmed
            edmed 13 June 2020 12: 17 New
            -1
            Quote: Lyuba1965_01
            local and foreigner, then preference and all preferences will be given to a foreigner, and from the local one will tear off 7 skins and let them go naked across the steppe.

            And why? Where are these pretentious guys, ready to spread rotten cattle about, but they can't even squeak- "Hey, you, up there, what are you talking about, you saw a branch under you!" Well, yes, we can kick the weak, we cannot meow in defense of our private interests, but we proudly inflate the goiter, you have influence and capital, you cannot influence the government in your interests, why is this? PS Not for you, so rhetorical questions.
            1. Lyuba1965_01
              Lyuba1965_01 13 June 2020 12: 19 New
              +1
              But these guys benefit from this state of affairs, because they all have foreign money in their composition.
              1. edmed
                edmed 13 June 2020 12: 59 New
                -2
                Quote: Lyuba1965_01
                But these guys benefit from this state of affairs, because they all have foreign money in their composition.

                But how is it that each alpha male (female) is trying to squeeze competitors out of his territory, and then some 314, here, as my friend used to say, "It's better to be the first in the village than the second in the city" lol
                1. Lyuba1965_01
                  Lyuba1965_01 13 June 2020 15: 50 New
                  +1
                  But what is there to squeeze out ... they believe that for this they will be accepted into the family of capital, they will be treated with love and respect. Although, as events show, this will never happen. There is another point: how to spend money on scientists who will make new technologies that will pay off in ten years, it is better to take them from your "partners" and earn here and now.
      3. Crane
        Crane 14 June 2020 15: 42 New
        0
        Believe me, you yourself will be the first to howl if the Chinese place any production near you. Because in their place remains scorched, poisoned earth.
        -------
        I read somewhere that the Chinayos rented land for farming, and worked there only in gas masks. All the while, they poured and poured some kind of muinyu into the ground. In the Urals, it seems ...
    2. alone
      alone 13 June 2020 13: 09 New
      +3
      Quote: LeonidL
      This is instead of making the PKD nearby and giving work to the local population and arrived in the country.
      Anyone who needs to do this prefers to take their percentage from the transaction and transfer it to the cordon. These people do not bind their future to the country that they govern .. They have siblings who are foreign citizens, have a business there based on dirty money from their parents
  • blackice
    blackice 13 June 2020 07: 51 New
    14
    I agree.
    Russia is a rich bride with a large dowry. They just try not to marry her, but send her to the panel, having slowly sold her bridegroom's dowry.
  • Svarog
    Svarog 13 June 2020 08: 28 New
    13
    That's right .. the article describes our relationship with China exactly as I imagine it. China is simply using Russia as long as it is beneficial to it. Russia fulfills all the whims of China to its own detriment, but at the same time, our media shout from all the irons that another "breakthrough" has taken place .. modestly keeping silent about how much it cost for Russia ..
    At all times, only the strong and smart are respected. But we are degrading from year to year .. and there is no development anywhere .. and the internal political life has generally died. What kind of sheep are they holding us for when they tell us from television screens that we need to take care of animals and for this we need to change the Constitution ..
  • Pravodel
    Pravodel 13 June 2020 09: 01 New
    +2
    Relations are beneficial not only to China, but also to Russia. The raw materials are written at the top, but in addition to raw materials, China is increasing the export of agricultural products from Russia, the most regrettable is that we cannot supply agricultural products to China as much as China needs: the Chinese market is much larger than our production capabilities. Hence the conclusion that China’s consumption of our agricultural products opens up for Russia, in fact, unlimited possibilities for increasing agricultural production and introducing abandoned and withdrawn agricultural land into circulation. It is only necessary that the policies of the state and the Central Bank of Russia correspond to this.
    Another direction. Now, every month, 20 thousand containers leave Russia for Europe from Russia to Europe from China. And this is not the limit. The number of delivered containers and cargo from China is limited by the capacities of the railway itself - Transiba and BAM. The Chinese could carry even more, but the railway infrastructure does not allow, the expansion of which requires serious capital expenditures that only the state together with business can pull on the territory of Russia, business itself and the state itself can not cope with this: the business does not have enough money, money will be stolen from the state.
    These are just 2 examples where the interests of Russia and China not only intersect, but also condition each other. Add to this the development of high-speed railways, tourism, petrochemicals, mineral fertilizers, engine building for airplanes, etc., it becomes clear that the possibilities for Russia's economic development through the use of China's economic interests are, in truth, unlimited. It is only necessary to properly dispose of it. But with this - a huge, huge problem. And the point is not that the state does not understand its benefits from cooperation with China, but that the interests of each medium and small official on the ground are focused on their own pockets, and not on the interests of the state. And while Russia cannot cope with this, it is difficult to expect explosive growth in production in Russia, taking into account the interests of China.
    A special issue is China's insurance against blocking the main trade routes passing through the Indian Ocean. Such insurance can be given to China only by Russia with its existing and developing trade routes. But to understand this, you must write a separate article.
    1. Lyuba1965_01
      Lyuba1965_01 13 June 2020 10: 19 New
      +4
      Russia pays for this with its ecology and the elimination of local competition with foreigners.
    2. Svarog
      Svarog 13 June 2020 17: 00 New
      +2
      It is only necessary to properly dispose of it. But with this - a huge, huge problem

      This is the key. Benefit can be found with any state, but it’s right to dispose of and create the conditions .. you need to work here .. And we don’t like this oh, I mean officials and managers ..
      In general, you have written obvious and correct perspectives, but they have not been realized in 20 years, moreover, we can say that "the horse did not roll" .. Who is the reason? I believe that, first of all, in the Chinese .. the Chinese use our services on a leftover basis, in other words, only those goods and services where you can cut off two ends and at least .. but with the United States they are even 10% ready to work .. that is, we are not even in the top ten priorities for them .. (this is from personal experience of working with them)
      But in general, in general, it is sad that we are turning into an agrarian and raw materials appendage .. Back to the future, which is called ... like under the king .. and with all the consequences. Compared to the era of socialism, what we have now and where we are rolling is a shame.
  • Anchonsha
    Anchonsha 13 June 2020 14: 35 New
    -1
    You do not quite correctly understand the investment policy of Russia. With foreign investments, we get them too, but, how, China itself took place, where all the businessmen of the world invested and built factories, factories, educational institutions for training workers who could work the Chinese. Investors were attracted by cheap rabsil to China and from this growing profits. Our state has money, but we need new technologies. And I think that if the West changes its mind and returns its enterprises home, then in 5-7 years China will have a hard time, because it will already lag behind the same West, unless it pulls its science and education to the level of the same West .. That is why we are stagnating, we are wasting time with the liberal movement in our economy. And then our economic bigwigs do not want to redo our economy, they are interested in profit, not risks on investment in development.
  • apro
    apro 13 June 2020 05: 15 New
    0
    For China, Russia is not an equal partner. It is clear without words. There are no points of contact here. Russian bourgeois do not conflict with Western bruises; they try to fit into their system. It turns out badly, yes, but there is a desire.
    1. Ragnar Lodbrok
      Ragnar Lodbrok 13 June 2020 07: 14 New
      10
      Oleg Frolov, are you basically Russia always and everywhere with a small letter? Write with the capital letter, Basurman.
      1. apro
        apro 13 June 2020 07: 16 New
        -5
        Quote: Ragnar Lothbrok
        Write with the title, Basurman

        Worse ... Soviet.
        1. Ragnar Lodbrok
          Ragnar Lodbrok 13 June 2020 07: 31 New
          13
          Here, many (like myself) come from the USSR, this does not give you any moral right to write the name of my country in such blatantly dismissive, derogatory form. But I do not write Moldova (or where you are from there, I forgot already) with a capital letter.
          1. apro
            apro 13 June 2020 07: 37 New
            -6
            Quote: Ragnar Lothbrok
            I do not write Moldova (or where you are from there, I forgot already) with a capital letter.

            Yes, the shtozh is ... around the Romanian name-calling ... I am from the Far East.
            But today for me, Russia is just a territory ... without prospects.
  • LeonidL
    LeonidL 13 June 2020 05: 54 New
    +4
    Correct conclusions, but somewhat incomplete. Given the thousand-year history of China, Kofunzianism mixed with a kind of "Chinese Marxism", the fact that "China lacks its own natural resources," then that China still considers itself the heirs of Chinhiz Khan and his empire, two additional conclusions can be drawn that the author ignored.
    1. Given the situation of losing the trade war with the United States and the growth of internal instability not only in Hong Kong and Xinjiang, but throughout the country, the CCP can follow the beaten path of "small victorious war." The choice is great - Taiwan, Vietnam, India, Kazakhstan and the entire Central former Soviet Asia and, in a certain scenario, Russia. Do not forget, and China does not forget, that for several centuries Russia paid tribute to the descendants of Cengiz Khan (aka China, the Middle Empire, etc.). Even today, the border with the PRC is the soft underbelly of Russia. And the fifth Chinese column settled there for a long time and even acquired Russian passports.
    2. In a situation of a sharp weakening of the United States as a result of internal chaos, the fall of Trump, a sharp recession and as a result of the victory of the PRC in the trade war (the real Chinese pragmatists will not go to war ... in the near future, anyway), the United States is losing its position of "king mountains ", the only superpower with police functions ... Nature abhors a vacuum - Europe today is powerless and fragmented, emasculated and castrated by its own unreasonable tricks of tolerance, permissiveness, tolerance-intolerance ... Russia has not yet reached the level of being the only superpower (here the Chinese author, though overdone, is largely right). That is, China comes out on top - for Russia and the Russian people, this option is far from the best. The Chinese showed how they relate to "others" in their stories up to the wars with India and Vietnam. And even in this case, all Russia's resources will be mobilized only for the needs of China: including human needs ... and those who cannot, their fate will be very sad.
    1. Aleksandr21
      Aleksandr21 13 June 2020 09: 32 New
      0
      Quote: LeonidL
      In a situation of sharp weakening of the United States .... The United States is losing its position ... China comes first - for Russia and the Russian people this option is far from the best.


      What's the best? The United States as a superpower simply does not recognize other cultures and foreign paths. There is only democracy in the American way, with the dollar, and the imposition of its culture and system, in which there is the United States and everyone else must follow them. And whatever party / president is in the United States, these fundamental things do not change. With China, what can be a plus, they certainly want to take the place of the United States and control the world through soft power (trade and diplomacy, relying on the entire power of the state), but at the same time they do not impose their values ​​on others, yes there is a project "One Belt One Road" but all countries will receive benefits, unlike the American approach where you buy the dollar and American goods, and if you do not want sanctions and, in extreme cases, a change of government, and maybe even a war and the destruction of the state. So in this regard, China has a different approach and mentality. Of course, we are more interested in a multipolar world, but in this world there may be superpowers / superpowers that have an impact on the whole world. And the change of the leader (USA - China) is not such a bad scenario, Russia has more opportunities to play on contradictions and cooperate with different poles of the world. Ideally, we ourselves would raise the economy, carry out reforms and make a technological leap, but it is difficult, difficult ... international markets are divided, the domestic market is small (when compared with the USA, EU, China) and the prospects are rather vague, in the sense that the government relies on the sale of oil / gas resources and modernization in all directions has slowed down, not to mention other problems: lack of technology, brain drain to the West, problems with falling levels of education, science, etc. (there is a long list of problems), and all this prevents our country from taking a step forward ...
  • mark1
    mark1 13 June 2020 06: 03 New
    +3
    Russia is pretty, but in her house she has a rolling ball, and she cannot boast of a prestigious education.

    Well, this is not even rudeness - this is a dense stupidity.
  • Valery Valery
    Valery Valery 13 June 2020 06: 10 New
    -12
    The possibility of a military alliance between Russia and China needs to be voiced aloud. And then look at the reaction of the United States ....
    1. Ragnar Lodbrok
      Ragnar Lodbrok 13 June 2020 06: 57 New
      20
      Yes, there will be no such an alliance, China has never created any alliances with anyone. We are the maximum for them, so these are fellow travelers for a certain period of historical time, no more. We should treat them the same way, otherwise it's funny how many people here they find some kind of allies in the Chinese. With such friends, you don't need enemies, before, too, many sang about "Russian and Chinese brothers for a century", and how did "friendship" end?
  • Poetry
    Poetry 13 June 2020 06: 11 New
    +9
    You must be extremely careful with the Chinese, remembering their cunning and cunning. They are not friends to us.
    1. kepmor
      kepmor 13 June 2020 06: 38 New
      13
      they don’t have such a thing as friendship with a foreigner ...
      had a chance to encounter them at the household level ... extremely unpleasant memories ... even those national chauvinists ...
      in terms of minute behavior, they are no different from Afro-Negroes or Arabs ... when there are only a few of them, they behave more or less ... exceeded a hundred other, then all ... carcasses of light ...
      1. Poetry
        Poetry 13 June 2020 16: 25 New
        +2
        You know, I saw those guys too
        They champ, burp and fart.
        It’s natural for them, it’s clear
        But it is unpleasant for our people.
  • Vladimir61
    Vladimir61 13 June 2020 06: 15 New
    +4
    An interesting and not simple article. Thank!
    If we consider the vision of the Chinese author as a whole, then there is a good Russian proverb - "Every sandpiper praises his swamp." China is still full of problems, and its ambition will only aggravate relations with the West. And all the boasting of developed infrastructure and industry in the style of oriental praise. Yes, it is strong, but as in Russia, exclusively in megalopolises and at the same time, it does not exclude a sharp loss of markets, overproduction, dependence on the energy market, depression and a lot of everything that is inherent in the global economy. And it is not Russia here, "the bride awaiting marriage," namely, the "Chinese groom", who for all his "might" is nevertheless afraid to openly confront not only the United States, but also some of its neighbors. What can we say about the United States? It's not for nothing that the author, just like that, made a reservation, -
    When the United States reaches a certain “point” in its pressure on China, China will inevitably enter into an alliance, an alliance with Russia, because the Americans simply will not leave him any other choice.
    ... Directly in the style of the US State Department - we think so, because it is so beneficial for us! Do we need it, and do we want this "engagement" in the Eastern style, where others decide for the bride?
  • rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 13 June 2020 06: 41 New
    0
    but in her house she has a rolling ball, and she cannot boast of a prestigious education.
    The Chinese author-analyst has probably forgotten the history of his country a little. Where the future leading Chinese engineers and scientists received their education in the 50s - in the USSR. And today in Russia there are enough universities where you can get a really prestigious education without looking to the west. In recent decades, the Chinese have rushed to the west for education - flag in hand. But as soon as relations with the United States begin to cool, Russia can be immediately remembered and even complements can be thrown away. Of course, pragmatism in relations plays an important role, the main thing is that it does not run counter to the interests of the country with which you have become friends. Otherwise, the game is one-sided.
  • Pessimist22
    Pessimist22 13 June 2020 07: 18 New
    +7
    "Russia relies on the sale of natural resources, but its economy is so backward that many Russian enterprises have long been abandoned or idle."
    Keywords about Russia
    1. oracul
      oracul 13 June 2020 07: 51 New
      -5
      Is this a discovery for you? True, there is one peculiarity: all these are acts of the times when the "Harvard boys", led by Yeltsin, ruled. And, as always, the medal has two sides: one - many industries are abandoned, but some of them needed immediate modernization, some stopped due to the breakdown of cooperation ties and lack of demand for products in the post-Soviet states due to various, but most often Russophobic, reasons some were deliberately eliminated by Western competitors, but the other side is the construction of modern production facilities that require investment, modern technology and time. And the payoff is that the new will be better than the old - you just have to work constantly, not moan and sprinkle ashes on your head.
  • parusnik
    parusnik 13 June 2020 07: 19 New
    +2
    China’s confrontation with the United States, as well as its rapprochement with Russia, are exclusively forced processes for China.
    .... It is worth China and the United States to come closer, reduce confrontation to a minimum ... Violinist (Russia) will not be needed ....
    1. Nemchinov Vl
      Nemchinov Vl 14 June 2020 01: 40 New
      0
      Quote: parusnik
      It is worth China and the United States to come closer, reduce confrontation to a minimum ...
      hardly TWO HITGARDS can converge, both need big market sales ... and this is good in this case ...
  • Vitaly Tsymbal
    Vitaly Tsymbal 13 June 2020 07: 23 New
    0
    Interesting article. With a share of Chinese communism and without the one-sidedness of Chinese "patriotism." I did not have many meetings with the Chinese, and I honestly don’t remember direct contacts, except in the markets. But I agree with the Chinese author about today's "disgust" based on the superiority of the economy. True, this "disgust" is mutual. China, and the whole world, considers us a raw material appendage without an industrial future, forgetting that China owes much of its industrialization to the USSR and especially to Yeltsin's Russia, when EVERYTHING was being destroyed ... China successfully occupied a "clean field" after the destruction of the Soviet industry - from here the Chinese have a sense of arrogant superiority. As long as we have "Putinism-Medvedism" in our heads, relations with China will only get worse, although the struggle for the benefits of "love" against a common competitor of the United States will SOMETIMES bring us closer, but no more ... In the meantime, Russia, unlike China, is playing according to the rules of American globalism, China is no longer fighting for the economy, but for increasing the well-being of its citizens, in order to become socially attractive and with whom to take an example (like the USSR in the 70s), but Russia does not want to see this, therefore they are considering China only as an economic partner or competitor. And in vain, who knows, maybe tomorrow - after tomorrow we will stop believing "in our special becoming" and start a new revolution, just not under the ideological slogans of "Jewish Marxism", but under the slogans of "Chinese communism". The mind cannot understand Russia ...
  • Free wind
    Free wind 13 June 2020 07: 37 New
    +3
    The Chinese are our enemies. All of the Amur peoples hated the Chinese. We also had proverbs and sayings about the Chinese. Angry as a Chinese, cunning as a Chinese, etc. The Chinese treat the Russians with disdain. Do not forget that western China, yes, yes, communist, had agreements with the Japanese during World War II. And there was a very brisk trade. But their sales representatives, the Soviet Union was forced to take out of China. in 41-42 they began to be killed, more than a thousand people died.
  • rocket757
    rocket757 13 June 2020 07: 39 New
    0
    Evaluation, analysis from a sane person .... We also have plenty of these, from the same sane people.
    Our top ones are in the know, but they do ... in different ways and it is not always clear why and why this is done.
    How will it be next ???
  • 川 建国
    川 建国 13 June 2020 07: 39 New
    +6
    Because the October Revolution sent the maximalism of Leninism to China.
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 13 June 2020 08: 13 New
      +5
      Quote: 川 建国
      Because the October Revolution sent the maximalism of Leninism to China.

      Why aren’t you working 12 hours a day, and then you sit?
    2. Pilot
      Pilot 13 June 2020 09: 12 New
      +3
      Quote: 川 建国
      Because the October Revolution sent the maximalism of Leninism to China.

      I sent it, I just forgot to say that this is a guide to action and not a declarative tryndezh for the Chinese bourgeoisie. Your capitalism is golemic, so colleague Mordvin the third correctly pointed out that you should work 12 hours to get into socialism for a start, according to the teachings of Marxism-Leninism ..
      And we all need to start all over again, the traitors of the kapesesniki waffled Marxism-Leninism and the Great Country at the same time, now in the bourgeois (or rather crooks) pears hang around, loafers, selling off the country's natural wealth. angry
  • demo
    demo 13 June 2020 08: 20 New
    +1
    Article plus.
    Sometimes it's better to know what your comrade thinks than to live in ignorance.
    Or even worse, rely in their reasoning on mythical character traits invented by himself.
    But it’s not the point - what is China ?!
    The thing is different - and what is Russia!
    And one does not have to wait from the Chinese for an objective assessment of what we are and, most importantly, the reasons for this condition.
    The main, from my point of view, is the reason that Russia can’t in the last 20 years not only get out of its knees, but also stand on them because the state ideology is constitutionally prohibited.
    That is, it is completely not clear where, for what, with the help of which the country will move.
    For example, the United States.
    State ideology is the establishment of "democracy" everywhere in the image and likeness of the metropolis.
    And the United States is steadily following this ideological paradigm.
    The horse understands that democracy in the United States, democracy in Honduras, democracy in the EU, and democracy in Somalia will always be very different.
    Sometimes as a plus and minus infinity.
    Here is the strength and weakness of US ideology.
    You can lead everyone for an arbitrarily long time not only by the nose, but also by other parts of the body.
    And when you need to stick a label and drag it to the stall, or to the scaffold.
    In China, a mixture of Marxism, Taoism, Confucianism and a host of ideological attitudes.
    But the main thing that unites them all is the belief that the boss who is above you knows everything and knows everything.
    You just have to follow his instructions.
    Any initiative without the approval of the boss is punishable, because it undermines his authority.
    The second cornerstone of the Chinese mentality, comfortably settled in the brain of the Chinese is the belief in the predestination of fate.
    Yes so - "FATE".
    All that happens is fate. All that does not happen is also fate.
    Do not worry about the perfect and the imperfect.
    This is FATE.
    I recalled long conversations with one Chinese.
    It got to screaming and swearing.
    But I managed, from my point of view, to drive him into a corner.
    When he cooled down, he declared that my victory in the dispute was also fate.

    But in Russia there is no goal.
    Because we don’t understand what needs to be done to improve our own, and our children, and our grandchildren, and our people.
    Is it so obvious that there can be no other purpose?
    But we are denied that this should be defined as a goal.
    I will not write about what has been discussed many times.
    And precisely because of the lack of a goal, our country can never be in the very same leaders.
    Yes, what's in the lead.
    It is simple to be independent of external adverse conditions of mutual coexistence with other countries.
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 13 June 2020 09: 31 New
      -2
      It is interesting, informative and I advise everyone to listen to "Eastern Box" on Vesti FM ..... then this article would not seem like a revelation, that's for sure! soldier
  • Shiva83483
    Shiva83483 13 June 2020 08: 57 New
    -1
    [quote In an everyday example, China can be compared with a guy with money, and Russia with a red maiden. China is looking for tall, leggy and pretty to marry. Russia is pretty, but she has a rolling ball in her house, and she cannot boast of a prestigious education. So China does not close on Russia, choosing from others, from those who, besides beauty, have economy and money.] [/ Quote] ... And this is what the Chinese say about us ... of course I knew that they were still those "comrades", BUT ... on this occasion I can say the following, whose would be mumbled, and whose would be silent ... you, looking for households and money ... to the taste of tada, you are mercantile "our"?
  • muham
    muham 13 June 2020 09: 04 New
    +1
    And who will explain why the image of such China is supposed to be the groom, and Russia is the bride. And that the bride and groom after the wedding will do not a word.
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 13 June 2020 09: 33 New
      0
      Here, here, listen to "Eastern Box" on Vesti FM .... a lot of new things can be learned and understood what was not clear.
    2. parusnik
      parusnik 13 June 2020 10: 04 New
      +3
      There are no weddings yet, a candy-flower courtship period, walks under the moonlight and so on, it’s not even a matter of going to the cinema or a restaurant together ... The groom is still feeding the bride with pies and riding the bus .. ... smile
      1. Antifreeze
        Antifreeze 13 June 2020 19: 51 New
        +4
        The groom generally thinks: "Wouldn't he?" Such a "groom" should be kept for the testicles laughing
  • snake
    snake 13 June 2020 11: 41 New
    +2
    Russia's plan to achieve its future is to control Europe, relying on its energy resources, and strengthen itself, "feeding on the blood of Europe."

    Control Europe ... Cry or laugh ..? We’re no longer in control of the non-brothers, but here - Europe ... nda ...
    "Feeding on the blood of Europe". I'm sorry, what? Is it not selling your hydrocarbon blood? And how is it selling? With a sin in half, through the thorns-sanctions.
  • malyvalv
    malyvalv 13 June 2020 13: 22 New
    0
    "In general, in order to avoid a deep stagnation in relations with the US and Europe, China should not get too close to Russia."

    Everyone hopes to escape. Oh well. Flag as they say in hand. The Chinese author still did not understand anything.
    The US is afraid of Russia but not afraid of China. China militarily cannot destroy America. And America, China can. Not getting a full answer, for example, in the case of Russia. And sooner or later an ultimatum will be presented.
    Japan’s war with the United States in World War II began with an embargo on oil supplies to Japan.
  • Maki maki
    Maki maki 13 June 2020 15: 45 New
    +2
    The Chinese don't give a damn about everyone but themselves.
  • Etherion
    Etherion 13 June 2020 17: 16 New
    +1
    Good, correct article. Thanks to the author for the translation. Xu Shaochen also thanks for a realistic view of things. Usually we get from there translations of obscure articles about nothing and outright jaundice.
  • WayKheThuo
    WayKheThuo 13 June 2020 20: 29 New
    0
    The author, thank you - you "pulled out and dragged the pinned, hemmed material", devoid of meaningless oohs and oohs about an aggressive policy
    China in relation to my country.
    This is exactly what will happen, because China always and in everything respects only its interests in view of the fact that we are all, generally everything, in their eyes are just barbarians
  • Semyon Kravtsov
    Semyon Kravtsov 13 June 2020 21: 23 New
    0
    Here are some other materials on the topic of Russian-Chinese cooperation.
    About littering Moscow
    uborshizzzatchklivejournaltchkcom / 4870698tchkhtml
    About scorched earth
    zenтчкyandexтчкru/media/id/5d93c378028d6800af3aaf64/vyjjennaia-zemlia-kitaiskimi-teplicami-podruga-ekolog-rasskazala-kak-provodila-laboratornye-issledovaniia-pochvy-broshennyh-teplic-5ed1f79966114c67b34fa5d4
    point replace by.
  • TatarinSSSR
    TatarinSSSR 14 June 2020 00: 09 New
    +2
    Lord, the article describes what any 9th grade student understands. Why chew what any normal person already understands? Well write a long article about how the sun rises in the morning and sets in the evening.
  • Shadow041
    Shadow041 14 June 2020 05: 35 New
    +4
    At the expense of education, I would not agree with the author. Yes, thanks to all these Gorbachev, Yeltsin and their lackeys, the Russian Federation has lost a lot and is lagging behind China in a number of areas, but China is far from being as advanced as he would like and is seriously lagging behind Russia in a number of technologies. China is forced to copy weapons purchased by China in Russia and copies far from the original. China's strategic aviation still relies on a copy of the Soviet Tu-16 bomber, which had long been withdrawn from service in the Russian Federation. China also failed to create a copy of the Su-27, since Chinese aircraft engines are far from Russian models by their resources, as Venus is far from. ..
  • aybolyt678
    aybolyt678 14 June 2020 07: 37 New
    +1
    Russia's trouble is that the interests of the state are reduced to the interests of the oligarchy and structures affiliated with the Central Bank
  • Yarhann
    Yarhann 14 June 2020 09: 59 New
    +2
    Analytics level God. I read the first 5 paragraphs and I understand that this is a laugh))) a typical training manual of a liberd))) It seems that he judges the eco-image of the Russian Federation not according to the Rosstat’s documents, but according to the heights of bloggers and TP rubbish in the pipe and various ehams, rains and tp
    And the Chinese economy is so developed and diversified that China is still not a developed country.
  • Living7111972
    Living7111972 14 June 2020 13: 05 New
    0
    Russia has three ways: - either with Europe, or with the USA, or with China! We cannot be alone, there is no faith in the CIS ...
  • Sviridov777
    Sviridov777 14 June 2020 15: 16 New
    0
    With disgust and love, sheer bust. Pragmatism and only him. Only calculation and no emotions. They can afford it.
  • Usher
    Usher 14 June 2020 21: 51 New
    0
    Nonsense. China does not have high-tech production. And not foreseen. Nuclear industry, astronautics, military-industrial complex. Print electronics a lot of the mind is not necessary. China exports a large market, and cheap labor. Stupidly workshop of the world. But they do not have aggressive plans either. As many think. We supply taiga and resources ourselves. The Chinese do not even come.
    1. gsev
      gsev 15 June 2020 01: 02 New
      0
      Quote: Usher
      Nonsense. China does not have high-tech production.

      Programmable controllers, CNC, servo drives, frequency converters, strain gauges, ball screws and guides, machines, robots. At the mechanical engineering exhibition 2018, a representative of the Kovrov Electromechanical Plant did not even understand that the Chinese from YUHAI offer him a servo drive with high torque at low speeds than Kovrov bought in Japan. The junk that the Japanese sell in Carpet, the Chinese have already been discontinued. Moreover, the Chinese first exhibited 15 machines at international exhibitions. And now they sell machine tools for the production of guns in Turkey. And according to the specifications, they can sell the machine abroad for the manufacture of a gun barrel with a caliber of up to 1 meter and a length of up to 20 meters.
      1. Usher
        Usher 15 June 2020 22: 06 New
        0
        Cool, but is it more complicated than a rocket or a nuclear reactor?
        1. gsev
          gsev 16 June 2020 22: 41 New
          0
          Quote: Usher
          Is it harder than a rocket or a nuclear reactor?

          Russia stopped producing Burany (or rather decided to repair the Buran for the second flight) due to the inability to produce a tool for processing heat-insulating tiles to a Belgian machine tool. CNC manufacturers in Russia are often just buyers of Chinese (Taiwanese electronics). TsNITI made CNC from Advantech components and, with the beginning of the era of import substitution, forgot how to make CNC. All Aries analogs can be bought in China under other trademarks (for example, Vekon or invt) and much cheaper. In principle, an important problem of drones in Russia is the inability to make them modern software and electronics.
  • Dmitry V.
    Dmitry V. 18 June 2020 10: 56 New
    0
    Revealed the secret of the Open Sign ...
    China considers Russia a poor corrupt country.
    It was a long time ago in 2007 when I was there for the first time - the leaders of large factories said - Russia is a small market, a poor country (it was still a dollar for 23-25 ​​rubles, and the yuan was worth 3,3 rubles.
    Now the dollar is 70 rubles, the RMB 10 rubles - we are rogue.
    The devaluation paid for being in power.
  • Selevc
    Selevc 18 June 2020 13: 12 New
    0
    I read the article and realized that I did not understand anything about the attitude of the Chinese towards Russia !!! So I imagine these brother-neighbors with their sly oriental smile ... And with wise phrases like: "It is certainly possible - but not ...", "We are brothers - but everyone has their own fig in their pocket ...", "We are your best trading partners - give a bigger discount on gas ???" ...

    The situation - as Vysotsky once sang - "And not a friend and not an enemy - but so ..."
  • LeftPers
    LeftPers 25 June 2020 15: 00 New
    0
    "... But when the situation comes to a point, Russia will no longer have a way back, then turning back will be tantamount to death for it ..." Yes, never ... to ... titan not defeat Russia, it is too rotten and filthy for this.