Military Review

Operation "Heavy Water". The best diversion of World War II

77
Operation "Heavy Water". The best diversion of World War II

Wemork Hydroelectric Power Station, Norway


The action in Wemork is considered by the British the best sabotage operation of the Second World War. It is believed that the explosion of a heavy water plant in Norway was one of the main reasons that Hitler did not have time to create a nuclear weapon.

Norwegian saboteurs


In 1940, on the personal instructions of British Prime Minister Churchill, the Special Operations Executive was created, abbreviated as ODR. Special units that are part of the ODR were engaged in sabotage and subversive activities on enemy territory. Cells of well-trained fighters were also created to organize resistance groups. The main enemy of Britain then was the Third Reich.

The ODR included two Norwegian units: Rota Linge and Shetland Group. They were under the general control of the Norwegian government in exile in London. There was also another group, less popular, as it was associated with Moscow (a future adversary of NATO and Norway). In the northern Norwegian region of Finnmark, guerrillas operated under the command of the Soviet command. Norwegian partisans were trained from refugees by instructors from the NKVD. They operated in Tromsø and Finnmark. Partisan actions assisted the 14th Soviet Army in the Arctic. After the war, their actions against the Nazis were hushed up, the partisans were considered Soviet spies.

Since the creation of ODR history Norwegian special forces. At first, Rota Linge was trained following the example of British commandos for raids behind enemy lines. The Norwegian unit participated in the battle for Norway. The founder of the "Company" Martin Linge died during one of such operations in December 1941. The main operations of the Norwegian resistance were organized with the help of the Rota. The Shetland Group was included in the Norwegian Navy. Her main task was sabotage in German ports. So, in 1943, L. Larsen tried to destroy the German battleship Tirpitz with the help of a torpedo. However, the storm prevented this attempt.

The best diversion of world war


The most famous operation of Norwegian saboteurs is the liquidation of a heavy water plant in 1943 near the city of Ryukan (Ryukan). It is possible that this particular event did not allow Hitler to receive atomic weapons during the Second World War. The Germans were among the first to begin work on the atomic project. Already in December 1938, their physicists Otto Hahn and Fritz Strassman for the first time in the world carried out artificial fission of the nucleus of a uranium atom. In the spring of 1939, the Third Reich realized the military significance of nuclear physics and new weapons. In the summer of 1939, construction began on Germany’s first reactor facility at the Kummersdorf training ground near Berlin. Uranium export was banned from the country; a large amount of uranium ore was purchased in the Belgian Congo. In September 1939, the secret Uranium Project was launched. Leading research centers were involved in the project: the Kaiser Wilhelm Physics Institute, the Institute of Physical Chemistry of the University of Hamburg, the Physics Institute of the Higher Technical School in Berlin, the Physicochemical Institute of the University of Leipzig, and others. The program was supervised by Speer of Arms. The leading scientists of the Reich participated in the work: Heisenberg, Weizsacker, Ardenne, Riel, Pose, Nobel laureate Gustav Hertz and others. German scientists at that time were great optimists and believed that atomic weapons would be created in a year.

The Heisenberg group spent two years doing the research necessary to create a nuclear reactor using uranium and heavy water. Scientists have confirmed that only one of the isotopes, uranium-235, which was contained in a very small concentration in ordinary uranium ore, can serve as an explosive. But it was necessary to isolate it from there. The main point of the military program was a nuclear reactor, and for it, graphite or heavy water was needed as a moderator of the reaction. German scientists chose heavy water (creating a problem for themselves). There was no heavy water production in Germany, as in France and England. The only heavy water production in the world was in Norway at the company Norsk-Hydro (a factory in Wemork). The Germans occupied Norway in 1940. But there at that time was a small supply - tens of kilograms. Yes, and they did not go to the Nazis, the French managed to take out the water. After the fall of France, water was taken to England. The Germans had to establish production in Norway.

At the end of 1940, the Norsk-Hydro company received an order from the IG Farbenindustri concern for 500 kg of heavy water. Deliveries began in January 1941 (10 kg), and then until February 17, 1941, six more batches of 20 kg were shipped. Production in Wemork expanded. By the end of the year, it was planned to deliver 1000 kg of heavy water to the Reich, and in 1942 - 1500 kg. By November 1941, the Third Reich received an additional 500 kg of water.

In 1941, British intelligence received evidence that the Germans used a heavy water plant in Norway for the Reich nuclear program in Norway. After collecting additional information in the summer of 1942, the military command demanded the destruction of the strategic facility. They refused a large-scale air operation. Firstly, the plant kept large reserves of ammonia. Nearby were other chemical plants. Thousands of civilians could suffer. Secondly, there was no certainty that the bomb would break through multi-story concrete floors and destroy the production center. As a result, they decided to use a sabotage group (Operation "Stranger"). In October 1942, the first Norwegian agents were successfully thrown into Norwegian territory (Operation Grouse). The group included A. Kelstrup, K. Haugland, K. Helberg, J. Paulson (team leader, experienced climber). They successfully reached the place of operation and carried out preliminary preparation of the action.

In November 1942, on two bombers with gliders began to transfer 34 sappers under the command of Lieutenant Matven. However, due to lack of preparation, difficult weather conditions, the operation failed, gliders crashed. The surviving saboteurs were captured by the Germans, questioned and executed. The previously landed “Linge Guys” reported the failure of the operation. They were instructed to wait for a new group.

USO has prepared a new operation to destroy the facility in Wemork - Operation Gunnerside. Six Norwegians were selected in the new group: the group commander was Lieutenant I. Reneberg, his deputy was Lieutenant K. Haukelid (first-class demolitionist), Lieutenant K. Jygland, sergeants F. Kaiser, X. Storhaug and B. Stromsheim. In February 1943, they were successfully landed in Norway. The new group connected with the first, which had been waiting for them for more than four months.

On the evening of February 27, saboteurs went to Wemork. On the night of February 28, the operation began. His man from the plant staff helped to get into the facility. Saboteurs installed charges and successfully left. Part of the detachment remained in Norway, the other moved to Sweden. 900 kilograms (almost an annual supply) of heavy water were blown up. Production was stopped for three months.

Bombardment. Explosion on lake tinshn


In the summer of 1943, the Allies learned that the Germans had restored production in Wemork. The company managed to sabotage - add dark vegetable oil or fish oil to heavy water. But the Germans cleaned the heavy water with filters. The Americans were worried that Hitler might get nuclear weapons before them. After the sabotage, the Nazis turned the object into a real fortress, strengthened security and tightened access control. That is, the attack of a small group of saboteurs was now ruled out. Then it was decided on a large-scale air operation. At the same time, the number of possible victims among the local population was turned a blind eye. On November 16, 1943, 140 strategic bombers attacked Ryukan and Wemork. The bombing lasted 33 minutes. More than 700 heavy two-hundred-kilogram bombs were dropped at the enterprise, and over 100 hundred-kilogram bombs were dropped at Ryukan.

The smoke generators that the Germans installed around the hydropower plant after the sabotage were turned on immediately and proved effective. The bombing turned out to be ineffective. Only a few bombs hit large facilities: four at the station and two at the electrolysis plant. The heavy water plant, located in the basement of the building, was not damaged at all. An agent in Norway, Haukelid, reported:

“The hydroelectric power station is out of order. Heavy water plants protected by a thick layer of concrete were not affected. Among the civilian Norwegian population there are victims - 22 people were killed. "

The Germans decided to evacuate production and the remnants of finished products to Germany. To ensure the safety of the transport of important cargo, safety measures have been further strengthened. The SS men were transferred to Ryukan, the air defense was strengthened, and a troop of soldiers was called up to protect the transport. Participants in local resistance decided that it was pointless to attack Wemork with the available forces. It remained possible to carry out sabotage during the transportation of heavy water by rail from Wemork or by ferry to Lake Tinshn. The operation on the railway had major flaws, so they decided to attack with a ferry. The activists of the resistance group were Haukelid, Larsen, Sorle, Nielsen (he was an engineer in Wemork).

Early in the morning of February 20, 1944, a railway ferry, loaded with wagons with heavy water, departed from the pier strictly according to the schedule. Norwegian saboteurs laid explosives in the ferry, calculated that the explosion should occur during the passage over the deepest part of the lake. After 35 minutes, when the ferry was above the deepest place, an explosion occurred. The ferry began to roll and settle on the stern. The cars rolled into the water. A few minutes later the barge sank. In the depths of Lake Tinnsh turned out to be 15 tons of heavy water.

So the last hope of the Nazis died to get a precious load for the atomic project. The nuclear project in Germany continued, but could not be completed by the spring of 1945. The war was lost.
Author:
Photos used:
https://ru.wikipedia.org/
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  1. Olgovich
    Olgovich 19 June 2020 06: 08 New
    +2
    His man from the plant staff helped to get into the facility. Saboteurs installed charges and successfully left.

    It is amazing that everything turned out so easily: such an important object and no security.
    The action in Wemork is considered by the British the best sabotage operation of the Second World War. It is believed that the explosion of the heavy water plant in Norway was one of the main reasons that Hitler did not have time to create nuclear weapons.
    The main reason is that the Hitlers, thank God, did not really understand WHAT these weapons were, and all the opportunities Germany had were scientists and developed technologies and capacities.

    but in the middle of the war it was decided that scientific, production, and financial resources should be concentrated only on projects that would yield an early return in the form of the creation of new types of weapons. In this regard, the Uranium project was transferred from military priorities to the civilian sphere, which hampered its implementation, funding was absolutely inadequate, as were the people and resources involved.
    1. Ragnar Lodbrok
      Ragnar Lodbrok 19 June 2020 06: 11 New
      13
      I agree, humanity was very lucky that the Germans did not have time to make a vigorous bomb ...
      1. ccsr
        ccsr 19 June 2020 12: 40 New
        +6
        Quote: Ragnar lodbrok
        I agree, humanity was very lucky that the Germans did not have time to make a vigorous bomb ...

        Much later, an analysis of German nuclear programs was carried out, and not only ours, but also Western experts agreed that Hitler could not create an atomic bomb, and not only because of the lack of necessary resources (and they really lacked), but also because German developments were carried out along a dead end, and not only that, at that time they did not have a number of technologies for assembling a nuclear charge. Here's the end to German development:
        At the end of 1943, during the massive bombing of Frankfurt, the Degussa factory workshops were completely destroyed, and it will not be possible to resume production in the coming years. Scientists can have only the amount of uranium that they have managed to produce. By and large, it was the end: even with the most successful development of events, Germany no longer had uranium to create a substantial arsenal of nuclear weapons.

        Content Source: https://naukatehnika.com/yadernaya-bomba-dlya-gitlera.html
        naukatehnika.com
      2. iouris
        iouris 19 June 2020 14: 22 New
        +2
        The goal has been achieved: the idea that the winners in WWII are England and Norway, dominates the masses, i.e. becomes a material force.
        1. antivirus
          antivirus 22 June 2020 20: 02 New
          0
          also the Danes in the winners ....
    2. knn54
      knn54 19 June 2020 06: 21 New
      +4
      Andrei, I have long believed that with the diversion at the plant, not everything is so obvious.
      Someone who is at a very high level in the 3rd Reich, contributed to this sabotage. And the "laurels" decided to give the Norwegian saboteurs.
      1. kig
        kig 19 June 2020 08: 45 New
        +8
        Why "someone." It was Max Otto von Stirlitz.
      2. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
        Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 19 June 2020 14: 12 New
        +3
        Canaris? No, most likely - the group that "matured" by July 20, 1944. This is likely.
      3. Nikolai Miracles
        Nikolai Miracles 19 June 2020 17: 16 New
        +4
        It was physicist Walter Bothe. Either he did the wrong measurements and calculations, or he was provided with low-quality graphite. He came to the conclusion that graphite is not suitable as a neutron moderator. Therefore, the Germans decided to use heavy water and substituted themselves under the attack of saboteurs.
        1. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 19 June 2020 18: 07 New
          +2
          Producing pure graphite suitable for a neutron moderator is also a very time-consuming process.
          1. Nikolai Miracles
            Nikolai Miracles 19 June 2020 19: 39 New
            +2
            Produced at the end of the war. The Heigerloch reactor combined graphite and heavy water. They didn’t manage to launch it.
      4. Evgeny Moskov
        Evgeny Moskov 23 June 2020 18: 00 New
        0
        I think that not necessarily someone was at a high level. When Durov was preparing fur seals for sabotage against the Germans, the odds were similar: a German got into the service personnel and carried poison to the pool, which he poisoned all the animals with and poured into fish. Everything ingenious is simple.
    3. Far B
      Far B 19 June 2020 06: 23 New
      +9
      giving a quick return
      von Braun will not agree with you. In principle, Germany simply did not have enough resources - neither human, nor temporary, any. And this is good. And I consider the theft of Mussolini to be the best (although absolutely useless) diversion. The rail war was most useful. But how do British scientists know about it.
      1. Ragnar Lodbrok
        Ragnar Lodbrok 19 June 2020 06: 42 New
        20
        By the way, about our British scientists. Birthdays are good for health. British scientists have proven that those who had more birthdays lived, as a rule, longer.
        And the theft of Mussolini is nothing. Here is the best sabotage in my opinion - on November 13, 1943, partisan Konstantin Chekhovich with the help of local residents blew up a city cinema in which there were about 700 Nazi soldiers and officers. 2 generals and many senior officers. Such a one-time loss of higher and middle The Wehrmacht did not know the command link either before or after ... The partisan’s assistant was 15-year-old porkhovichka Evgenia Mikhailova, who worked as a cleaner in the cinema. Together they managed to smuggle 64 kg of explosives into the building.
        1. Far B
          Far B 19 June 2020 06: 49 New
          +7
          I say that about nothing, but it was done cool. And the most useful to determine ... Yes, we probably did not even hear about her. Damn, the Krasnodar guys just hung the flag. It would seem like garbage, but it wasn’t too childishly shaky. Here's how to evaluate?
          And about birthdays ... How to make a joke - an advance, pay, advance, pay)))
        2. Dr. Frankenstucker
          Dr. Frankenstucker 19 June 2020 10: 34 New
          +3
          Quote: Ragnar lodbrok
          And the theft of Mussolini by nothing.


          but how elegant! )))

          Quote: Ragnar lodbrok
          Here is the best diversion in my opinion - November 13, 1943


          and the high-explosive fires in Struga and Kharkov in 1941?
          )
        3. Pilat2009
          Pilat2009 20 June 2020 14: 07 New
          -1
          Quote: Ragnar lodbrok
          Together they managed to smuggle 64 kg of explosives into the building.

          What about the bombing of the royal palace by Khalturin?
      2. Olgovich
        Olgovich 19 June 2020 07: 08 New
        +1
        Quote: Far In
        von Braun will not agree with you.

        Not with me, but with the assessment of the researchers.

        Brown received exactly what promised a quick result, which is why it did not allow to quickly bring to combat use the world's first combat ballistic missiles V-2 and the creation of the A-9 / A-10 intercontinental missiles on the America project and partially Silbervogel Orbital Bomber ..
        And I completely agree that:
        Quote: Far In
        In principle, Germany simply did not have enough resources

        At the same time, the priorities were not chosen.
        Quote: Far In
        And I consider the theft of Mussolini to be the best (although absolutely useless) diversion.

        I would say, the most spectacular, I remember how she struck me in the movie "Liberation"
        Quote: Far In
        The rail war was most useful.

        This, yes, is generally incomparable in scale or in results.
        1. Far B
          Far B 19 June 2020 07: 15 New
          +2
          However, a consonant. drinks
        2. Astra wild
          Astra wild 19 June 2020 18: 06 New
          +3
          Olgovich, I also remember this film. When I was a teenager I thought, and now I think so that the film can be used as visual material on the history of the war
      3. Avior
        Avior 19 June 2020 07: 47 New
        +2
        As for the Rail War, Ilya Starinov, the main demolition of the Red Army, disagrees with you.
        Evaluated its success is very low.
        1. Far B
          Far B 19 June 2020 07: 51 New
          +1
          The Foschists disagree with him. Belarusians respect. "My youth, Belarus. Partisan songs, pine trees and fog"
          1. Avior
            Avior 19 June 2020 07: 53 New
            +2
            The Nazis can write different things, but there was no more competent specialist than Starinov in the Red Army and the partisan movement at that time, so you can’t simply dismiss his opinion
            Memoirs.
            I. Starinov "Soldier of the Century"
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 19 June 2020 09: 23 New
              0
              Quote: Avior
              The Nazis can write different things, but there was no more competent specialist than Starinov in the Red Army and the partisan movement at that time, so you can’t simply dismiss his opinion
              Memoirs.
              I. Starinov "Soldier of the Century"

              The Germans themselves about their problems ... will they lie?

              In recent nights, the situation on the railroads has changed significantly due to the lightning-fast series of explosions that paralyzed the whole movement Behind the rear of Army Group Center"(OKV diary for August 6, 1943).

              For example, parts of the 68th and 125th Infantry Divisions, following the Molodechno-Minsk railway, managed to reach only Olehnovichi station. Then I had to go to the front line on foot: the railway was destroyed too thoroughly ...
              Let me remind you, there is the Battle of Kursk and here it is ...

              To transfer troops along the front line - passing through the Smolensk region and the Bryansk region - the Germans had to make a huge hook through Poland and Lithuania!

              Because the railways in Belarus did not really work.

              During the operation, about 215 thousand rails were blown up, not .... 2040, as Starinov claimed, a significant number of echelons were destroyed (only Belarusian partisans - 836 echelons and 3 armored trains), bridges and station structures were blown up .. By autumn enemy operational transport decreased by 40 percent. On some railways, traffic was delayed for 3-15 days, and the highways Mogilev - Krichev, Polotsk - Dvinsk, Mogilev - Zhlobin did not work all of August. To restore the destroyed railway tracks, the enemy was forced to turn double-track sections into single-track sections, weld down rails, disassemble individual sections, deliver missing rails from Poland, France and Germany, which further increased the intensity of traffic. The German command was forced to use 5000 platforms and hundreds of locomotives to transport the rails, ((Rodina i Zncyclopedia magazine).

              The trains were blown up, as Starinov proposed.

              He is an interesting source of information, a professional, a good observer and organizer, but seems to be. prone to some shocking
              1. Avior
                Avior 19 June 2020 09: 38 New
                -1
                Rodina Magazine and the Encyclopedia was not the deputy chief of staff of the partisan movement and the head of the demolition school at the headquarters of the partisan movement, like Colonel Starinov, so it is doubtful that these are equivalent judgments.
                I’m not saying that he is unconditionally right, but that his opinion weighs more than entertaining media, this is undoubted.
                The fact that he has an opinion, and in order to refute it, a serious approach is needed.
                If you read Starinov, then the Germans created problems only in the first days, they very quickly found a way to repair small damage literally along the train - small bridges from rails.
                In addition, he writes that it was not only the paths along which the echelons of the Germans that were guarded intensively that guarded, including the paths that the Germans didn’t actually use — for reporting and many other nuances.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 19 June 2020 09: 56 New
                  0
                  Quote: Avior
                  Rodina Magazine and the Encyclopedia was not the deputy chief of staff of the partisan movement and the head of the demolition school at the headquarters of the partisan movement, like Colonel Starinov, so it is doubtful that these are equivalent judgments.

                  Certainly: Starinov had no idea what they know based on documents Encyclopedia of 1985 and 1994 and documentsbrought by the homeland
                  Quote: Avior
                  but that his opinion weighs more than entertaining media, it is undoubtedly

                  This is the opinion of a man whose pride was wounded by the fact that the results of the operation were higher than what he predicted.
                  Quote: Avior
                  If you read Starinov, then the Germans created problems only in the first days, they very quickly found a way to repair small damage literally along the train - small bridges from rails

                  I read: he did not say anything convincing, except for a direct lie about the blown up .... 2040 rails (hundreds of thousands of them razed).

                  He wrote about EXCESSIONS of rails from the Germans, and they were taken from .... Poland, France and Germany.


                  In addition, the trains were blown up, and the blown up rails were DISASSEMBED and DROPPED.
                  BR Encyclopedia is ... entertaining literature? belay lol No words ...
                  , the mounds were simply torn.
                  Quote: Avior
                  In addition, he writes that it was not only the paths along which the echelons of the Germans that were guarded intensively that guarded, including the paths that the Germans didn’t actually use — for reporting and many other nuances.

                  All that remains is to write about the nuances.

                  Because In general, the operation -SUCCESSED -and a better recognition of this than done the OPPONENT himself-Do not imagine.
                  It is higher than Starinov’s opinion.
                  1. Avior
                    Avior 19 June 2020 10: 01 New
                    0
                    The above passage does not refute Starinov.
                    He writes that it was effective in the early days due to the effect of surprise, and then the Germans found ways.
                    He writes, by the way, about mass postscripts.
                    The passage quoted is the third day of the Rail War. It is clear that this had an effect at the beginning.
                    It lasted a month and a half.
                    There was still Operation Concert - continued.
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 19 June 2020 12: 31 New
                      -2
                      Quote: Avior
                      The above passage does not refute Starinov.

                      Quote: Avior
                      The above passage does not refute Starinov.

                      It completely refutes: not 2040 rails but 215000 rails were blown up. The difference a THOUSAND times, of course, does not bother you.

                      Not only rails were torn, but also trains, structures, etc.
                      Quote: Avior
                      He writes that it was effective in the early days due to the effect of surprise, and then the Germans found ways.

                      He writes his subjective opinion, and Encyclopedias provide objective data.

                      Germans on the R. war: Teske H. Partisanen gegen die Eisenbahnen // Wehrwissenschaftliche Rundschau. 1953.

                      The Germans found a “cool” way — to transport rails from France, Poland and Germany, to dismantle double-track sections, and instead of cargo for the front .... five thousand platforms with materials for ... track repair yes
                      Quote: Avior
                      The passage quoted is the third day of the Rail War. It is clear that this had an effect at the beginning.

                      that's all:
                      During the operation, about 215 thousand rails were blown up, a significant number of trains were destroyed (only Belarusian partisans - 836 trains and 3 armored trains), bridges and station structures were blown up ..
                      -for three days?!

                      All-posts ?!

                      Nonsense. excuse me.
                    2. Astra wild
                      Astra wild 19 June 2020 18: 22 New
                      0
                      Recently, somewhere on the Internet, perhaps on the site, I received information that the "rail war" was immediately spectacular, and then it only did harm: explosives were wasted, and there weren’t many of them in the war, sabotage groups were killed.
                      I then thought: it would be nice to know the opinion of more knowledgeable people.
                  2. Avior
                    Avior 19 June 2020 16: 51 New
                    -6
                    So many untruths in one post
                    . In 1943, two operations of the "rail war" took place. The first began on the night of July 22 by the Bryansk partisans, and the universal multi-day began on the night of August 3 and lasted until September 16. The second operation, called a "concert", began on September 16 and lasted until December 1. The planned "winter concert" did not take place due to a shortage of partisans of explosives. All this did not give the desired results. Traffic on the railroads was completely blocked only in the rear of Army Group Center, and even then for only three days, from August 3 to 6. Moreover, switching the main efforts of partisans to undermining rails with a lack of explosives led to a reduction in train crashes, and ultimately contributed to an increase in road capacity, but at the same time made it difficult for our military railway workers to rebuild the railroads during the offensive. (The source of information is the portal History.RF, https://histrf.ru/lenta-vremeni/event/view/partizanskaia-opieratsiia-rielsovaia-voina)

                    Here about these three days on one site and there is confirmation of Germans.
                    Starinova does not refute.
                    Further, single instances of rail pulling are issued as a system.
                    The Germans were sorely short of steam locomotives, not rails, there were enough rails.
                    By the number of blown up rails, 2000 is just a lie.
                    Starinov in a memoir destroyed 214 thousand rails in 1,5 months
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 20 June 2020 07: 18 New
                      -2
                      Quote: Avior
                      Here about these three days on one site and there is confirmation of Germans.

                      Complete nonsense: you have been given a GERMAN source about the entire operation, if you DO NOT BELIEVE THE SOVIET AND RUSSIAN.
                      Quote: Avior
                      Further, single instances of rail pulling are issued as a system.
                      The Germans were sorely short of steam locomotives, not rails, there were enough rails.

                      You do not read what you answer at all? And what's the point of talking to you?
                      I will write in capital letters:

                      The Germans led the rails for restoration from POLAND, GERMANY and FRANCE.
                      FIVE THOUSAND PLATFORM with building materials for restoration, INSTEAD of freights for the front blocked railways
                      Quote: Avior
                      By the number of blown up rails, 2000 is just a lie.

                      Your Starinov lied to this in the book you mentioned, read:
                      In August, it was planned to undermine 300 thousand rails. Blew up
                      total 2014.

                      What is his own nonsense:
                      this war has done tremendous harm to us and
                      brought great benefit to the Germans.


                      A fan of shocking, ardently screaming that 19 sabotage detachments would completely stop the German invasion of the country in principle fool
                      1. Avior
                        Avior 20 June 2020 10: 37 New
                        -1
                        You would, when writing about Starinov, picked up expressions, however.
                        What is his own nonsense

                        At least out of respect for the veteran, who cannot answer you, he is not alive.
                        And deal with your quotes.
                        In August, it was planned to undermine 300 thousand rails. Blew up
                        all 2014.

                        The operation actually lasted from August to September, one and a half months, was carried out not only by the Belarusian headquarters, and it is unclear what specifics 2014 and August alone are. But these are questions to the editor of the book, and not to Starinov. And the fact that the veteran was not alive, and he could not fix the editor’s flaws, is no reason to write about him disrespectfully, distorting this figure as if the outcome of the entire Rail War.
                        Elsewhere in the book, data on the results of the entire operation from is clear
                        The first days of the rail war showed that 100-gram checkers often left an opening or only a spot in the rail during an explosion. And it took two hundred grams of checkers, as it was said in the instruction "Demolition work." As a result, over 1,5 months, only 214 thousand rails were blown up, mainly on auxiliary and sidings, where there was no protection. And over 30 tons of explosives were consumed, with which at least 2000 train wrecks could be produced.

                        Complete nonsense: you have been given a GERMAN source about the entire operation, if you DO NOT BELIEVE THE SOVIET AND RUSSIAN.

                        no information with citations from this source is given that it is not clear what the source is, where and by whom.
                        Everyone and everywhere quotes the extract precisely for the first three days of the operation from this particular site, from nowhere taken, and without any reference to the source or original.
                        But even in this form Starinov confirms this - the effect was only in the first days due to the effect of surprise, but the Germans quickly solved the problem.
                        The Germans led the rails for restoration from POLAND, GERMANY and FRANCE.
                        FIVE THOUSAND PLATFORM with building materials for restoration, INSTEAD of freights for the front blocked railways

                        I don’t see evidence. Rails remained enough on Soviet territory.
                        Where is the source of information about 5 thousand echelons?
                        The newspaper Pravda for 1943?
                      2. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 20 June 2020 11: 08 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Avior
                        You would, when writing about Starinov, picked up expressions, however.
                        What is his own nonsense

                        At least out of respect for the veteran, who cannot answer you, he is not alive.

                        WWII veterans are holy people for me.
                        All without exception.

                        But this is not a reason to be in agreement with him. Why on earth ?.
                        Quote: Avior
                        The operation actually lasted from August to September, one and a half months, was carried out not only by the Belarusian headquarters, and it is unclear what specifics 2014 and August alone are. But these are questions to the editor of the book, and not to Starinov. And the fact that the veteran was not alive, and he could not fix the editor’s flaws, is no reason to write about him disrespectfully, distorting this figure as if the outcome of the entire Rail War.

                        What's not clear? There are NO reservations: 300 thousand were planned in August, 2014 was blown up, which was precisely what he emphasized as a justification for the “failure”
                        Quote: Avior
                        Elsewhere in the book, data on the results of the entire operation from is clear

                        And there are no contradictions. In a month and a half they blew up more
                        Quote: Avior
                        no information with citations from this source is given that it is not clear what the source is, where and by whom.

                        "Numerous serial detonations significantly impeded rail traffic and caused a large loss of railway track materials. Various irreplaceable sections of the track were removed by these acts of sabotage for a long time" (former head of the transport department of the Army Group Center German Teske
                        Quote: Avior
                        But even in this form Starinov confirms this - the effect was only in the first days due to the effect of surprise, but the Germans quickly solved the problem.

                        In any form? What?
                        Nothing confirms, except the bias of the offended Starinov.

                        Yeah, for a "quick" solution, rails from FR, GE and FIELD were brought
                        Quote: Avior
                        I don’t see evidence. Rails remained enough on Soviet territory.

                        I do not see evidence of the "sufficiency" of the quantity, except for the delirium of old.
                        By order of Hitler, the commander of the German armed forces in the West, Field Marshal Gerd von Rundstedt demanded from the head of government of the unoccupied part of France, Pierre Laval, to remove from the second track a significant number of rails for sending them to the East
                        The history of the Great Patriotic War of the Soviet Union. 1941-1945. T. 3.M., 1961.S. 468.

                        5 thousand PLATFORMS were sent. (as you read, it is not clear)
                      3. Avior
                        Avior 20 June 2020 11: 45 New
                        -6
                        What's not clear? There are NO reservations: 300 thousand were planned in August, 2014 was blown up, which was precisely what he emphasized as a justification for the “failure”

                        you yourself give for comparison a figure for a month and a half.
                        The same as that of Starinov.
                        It completely refutes: not 2040 rails but 215000 rails were blown up. The difference a THOUSAND times, of course, does not bother you.

                        In any form? What?
                        Nothing confirms, except the bias of the offended Starinov.

                        so, all the numbers revolve around the first three days, which does not refute Starinov, but rather confirms his position. Again, this is a comparison of two methods. And fragmentary phrases without dates, real numbers and confirmed sources cannot be compared.
                        I am not saying that Starinov is necessarily and completely right.
                        But his opinion is the opinion of a first-class specialist in these matters.
                        And a retelling of fragmentary propaganda materials taken out of context cannot be refuted.
                        5 thousand PLATFORMS were sent. (as you read, it is not clear)

                        I read as it is written.
                        About 5 thousand not a word. Moreover, it is not written that they were filmed.
                        Demand to remove and remove really- very different things.
                        Not to mention the fact that the 1961 edition is not the primary source.
                        would try to write differently at that time.
                        Starinov himself at that time could not even think about his position, although he worked in the KGB and wrote memoirs.
                      4. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 20 June 2020 12: 16 New
                        -2
                        Quote: Avior
                        you yourself give for comparison a figure for a month and a half.
                        Same as Starinov

                        Nowhere.
                        Quote: Avior
                        so, all the numbers revolve around the first three days, which does not refute Starinov, but rather confirms his position.

                        Nothing revolves around ... 3 days, "revolves" around the whole operation
                        Quote: Avior
                        I am not saying that Starinov is necessarily and completely right.
                        But his opinion is the opinion of a first-class specialist in these matters.

                        Offended by his, discovered by others, failure of his predictions.
                        Quote: Avior
                        And a retelling of fragmentary propaganda materials taken out of context cannot be refuted.

                        What is taken out of what context, what is “fragmentation”?

                        Do not need common phrases, SPECIFICALLY say!
                        Quote: Avior
                        5 thousand PLATFORMS were sent. (as you read, it is not clear)

                        I read as it is written.

                        it is written - "platforms", you write .... "echelons"
                        Quote: Avior
                        About 5 thousand not a word.

                        Already THREE TIMES the word is said.

                        Fourth time :
                        The German command was forced to use for the transport of rails of 5000 platforms and hundreds of locomotives, to attract additional forces to the protection of railways. The operation significantly complicated the regrouping and supply of retreating enemy troops.
                        Source: Rail War // World War II, 1941-1945: Encyclopedia / ed. M. M. Kozlova. - M.: Soviet Encyclopedia, 1985. - P. 608. - 500 000 copies.
                        Rail war // Railway transport: Encyclopedia / Ch. ed. N. S. Konarev. - M.: Big Russian Encyclopedia, 1994. - S. 363
                        Quote: Avior
                        Demand to remove and remove really- very different things.

                        lol
                        Quote: Avior
                        Not to mention that the publication 1961 years is not the source.
                        would try to write differently at that time.

                        Then Starinov, 43 years old, is generally nothing.

                        Everyone and everyone lied, yes lol Whatever old-school offense.
                        Quote: Avior
                        Starinov himself at that time could not even think about his position, although he worked in the KGB and wrote memoirs.

                        If you read it, he did not hesitate to write to STALIN and the smaller (but large) bosses about their opinions on many positions.
                      5. Avior
                        Avior 20 June 2020 12: 42 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Avior
                        you yourself give for comparison a figure for a month and a half.
                        Same as Starinov

                        Nowhere.

                        read yourself carefully

                        Olgovich (Andrey) Yesterday, 12:31
                        -1
                        Quote: Avior
                        The above passage does not refute Starinov.

                        Quote: Avior
                        The above passage does not refute Starinov.

                        It completely refutes: not 2040 rails but 215000 rails were blown up. The difference a THOUSAND times, of course, does not bother you.

                        Quote: Avior
                        so, all the numbers revolve around the first three days, which does not refute Starinov, but rather confirms his position.

                        Nothing revolves around ... 3 days, "revolves" around the whole operation

                        Give specific figures and sources regarding the entire operation, and do not sprinkle like peas.
                        Quote: Avior
                        About 5 thousand not a word.

                        Already THREE TIMES the word is said.

                        exactly what is said, and there are no confirmations as there were no.
                        Fourth time :

                        and there is no source of this figure, where it came from.

                        Then Starinov, 43 years old, is generally nothing.

                        Everyone and everyone lied, yes lol To insult the old men.
                        Quote: Avior
                        Starinov himself at that time could not even think about his position, although he worked in the KGB and wrote memoirs.

                        If you read it, he did not hesitate to write to STALIN and the smaller (but large) bosses about their opinions on many positions.

                        Publicly, no one allowed him to write this in his memoirs.
                        There was an official version and censors simply did not miss anything contradicting it.
                      6. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 21 June 2020 06: 25 New
                        -2
                        Quote: Avior
                        read yourself carefully

                        I read it. And no "same numbers about 2014 old bombings
                        Quote: Avior
                        Give specific figures and sources regarding the entire operation, and do not sprinkle like peas.

                        I did not understand: ALL figures are given above, as well as sources.
                        Megillah?
                        Quote: Avior
                        exactly what is said, and there are no confirmations as there were no.

                        Well, FIFTH TIME, for tankers lol :

                        The German command was forced to use to rail transport 5000 platforms and hundreds of locomotives, to attract additional forces to the protection of railways. The operation significantly complicated the regrouping and supply of retreating enemy troops.
                        Source: Rail War // World War II, 1941-1945: Encyclopedia / ed. M. M. Kozlova. - M.: Soviet Encyclopedia, 1985. - P. 608. - 500 000 copies.
                        Rail war // Railway transport: Encyclopedia / Ch. ed. N. S. Konarev. - M.: Big Russian Encyclopedia, 1994. - S. 363

                        Can you refute ENCYCLOPEDIA with anything but empty chatter?
                        No?

                        Goodbye.
                        Quote: Avior
                        Publicly, no one allowed him to write this in his memoirs.
                        There was an official version and nothing contradicting it censors just did not miss.

                        And again , except chatter- no evidence ...

                        Good luck!
                        hi
                      7. Avior
                        Avior 21 June 2020 06: 28 New
                        0
                        If there is a source of this figure, give it, and don’t tell how they retype each other’s source from wherever they are taken.
    4. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 19 June 2020 16: 18 New
      +2
      Quote: Avior
      The fact that he has an opinion, and in order to refute it, a serious approach is needed.
      If you read Starinov, then the Germans created problems only in the first days, they very quickly found a way to repair small damage literally along the train - small bridges from rails.

      EMNIMS, Starinov evaluated the effectiveness of the "rail war" based on the number of echelons destroyed and the time to restore the tracks. At the same time, such parameters as reducing the speed of transportation and the diversion of rolling stock to transport materials to restore tracks somehow fell out.
      1. Avior
        Avior 19 June 2020 17: 04 New
        -6
        No,
        Starinov evaluated comprehensively.
        And he offered to strike at the weakest spot, steam locomotives.
  • Aviator_
    Aviator_ 19 June 2020 18: 13 New
    +2
    Well, yes, in his memoirs he generally wrote that the battle of Moscow in 1941 could be won by groups of saboteurs. And as for the rail war - since it’s expensive to testify to Christ’s day — the date of the German offensive near Kursk was quite concrete, by that date there weren’t that number of saboteurs who, according to Starinov, should have completely stopped German traffic in the rear. What they could, they did.
    1. Avior
      Avior 20 June 2020 11: 11 New
      -5
      100 partisans participated in the Rail War operation, there were plenty of demolition workers.
      For Starinov’s proposal, the bombers needed much less than they actually participated in the Rail War.
      And the difference between the positions of Starinov and Ponomarenko was that Ponomarenko considered the destruction of rails to be the main task, that the Germans had an acute shortage on the rails and they could not restore them.
      the task can be successfully solved by Belarusian partisans not only by the organization of the collapse of military trains, explosions of bridges, railway stations, the failure of steam locomotives, wagons, but also by other means. The proposals made on this issue to the Central Committee of the CP (b) of Belarus, based on the study of two years of experience in guerrilla war behind enemy lines, show that a radical disorganization of the enemy’s railway communications can be achieved by massive destruction of railroad tracks. Using the rail war method, the destruction of communications can be brought to a catastrophic degree for Nazi troops. With the massive use of this method of struggle, the enemy will be forced to carry out tremendous labor-intensive work on replacing blasted rails to restore tracks. A tremendous amount of steel and rolled products will be required, which will be an almost impossible task for him. The Central Committee of the Communist Party of Belarus decides:
      1. To approve the plan developed by the Secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party (b) of Belarus, Comrade Ponomarenko, for developing the guerrilla rail war in the rear of the German invaders, as the most effective way of mass destruction of enemy railways.
      2. The Central Committee of the Communist Party (Bolsheviks) of Belarus calls on all partisans and partisans, commanders and commissars of detachments and brigades, leaders of sabotage groups to intensify continuous combat operations to destroy the enemy’s railway communications, to use the favorable opportunities of the summer period for delivering the most powerful mass attacks on Hitler’s military machine in the most vulnerable places for her. The radical disorganization of the enemy’s railway communications will be the historical merit of the Belarusian partisans and partisans in the Great Patriotic War of the Soviet people against the Nazi invaders. Secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party (Bolsheviks) of Belarus P. Ponomarenko (Information source - Portal Istoriya.RF, https://histrf.ru/lenta-vremeni/event/view/partizanskaia-opieratsiia-rielsovaia-voina)

      (Decree of the Bureau of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Belarus (On) “On the destruction of enemy railroad communications by the rail war method of June 24, 1943 // USSR State Security Agencies in the Great Patriotic War. T. 4. Part 1. No. 1482)
      Everywhere, in those areas where the Germans use the ways and where they neither use nor guard. They simply walked along the tracks and laid checkers under each rail.
      There were a lot of people who needed it, when the Germans strengthened the protection of the tracks they needed after the first days, such groups could no longer approach the main tracks and began to explode the rails on the siding and others that were not protected by the Germans.
      That is, the disruption of traffic at that moment was not directly set at all.
      The detachments were given plans to destroy the rails, they carried them out and reported. Where they blew up these rails did not matter much.
      Starinov proceeded from another, the Germans’s problems with locomotives and it would be more difficult for the Germans to restore their shortage than rails. Therefore, it is necessary to explode and destroy by all means, namely steam locomotives. That is, the main goal should have been locomotives, not rails. This required more explosives and fewer groups of explosives.
      This is the difference in approaches.
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 20 June 2020 15: 30 New
        0
        For Starinov’s proposal, the bombers needed much less than they actually participated in the Rail War.

        There may be fewer demolitionists, but there are more support groups (barriers on both sides of the line, choking of punishers by battle, well, etc.)
        This required more explosives and fewer groups of explosives.

        A steam locomotive can be blown up either in a depot, or when it leads a train. This is a rather difficult task, requiring great strength and highly skilled demolition workers. Undermining the rail is much easier. Damage is naturally less. Given Starinov’s hat-making comments about the strategy of the battle of Moscow, I dare to assure that he had a purely academic approach to this issue. However, he published his memoirs at a fairly advanced age, you can make a discount on this.
        1. Avior
          Avior 21 June 2020 06: 31 New
          0
          His position did not appear in his memoirs, he defended it already during the war, which was the reason for the acute conflict with Ponomarenko. He had the opportunity to tell this publicly about her in many years.
          So this is not about the arguments of an old grandfather, but about the position of a first-class specialist in partisan affairs.
      2. gsev
        gsev 21 June 2020 00: 42 New
        0
        Quote: Avior
        This required more explosives and fewer groups of explosives.
        This is the difference in approaches.

        A steam locomotive is a complex technique, the cost of 2 meters of rail is up to 1000 rubles at modern prices. Filling the funnel from a kilogram of tol 2 hours of work for 5 people. Often the rail was not undermined, but made an explosion notch. In fact, the dismantling of the jagged rail from 100 g of tol took longer than filling the funnel from 2 kg and changing the sleepers. However, the delivery of explosives and ammunition to bombers and their protection cost several sorties, and possibly the loss of several pilots and planes. That is, it makes sense to change the locomotive to the plane, but not to the rail. The Germans also understood this, therefore, sabotage and reconnaissance detachments of guards sappers destroyed regardless of the price, and did not spray their forces on inactive groups. To undermine the engine saboteurs required several times fewer sorties and lost aircraft than during the bombing. Guerrilla warfare is very costly. The Allies intensified the actions of the partisans against communications only before decisive attacks, such as during the landing in Normandy.
        1. Avior
          Avior 21 June 2020 06: 55 New
          0
          Starinov, two years before the landing, advocated a similar approach-point operation instead of mass operations.
    2. Avior
      Avior 21 June 2020 07: 00 New
      0
      Below is an excerpt from the order of Ponomarenko.
      Nothing about the need to paralyze by a specific date.
      We are talking about the systematic destruction of rails.
      If from August 3, when the start for the Germans was unexpected and they weren’t ready, they would start not a rail war, but a locomotive, the effect would be greater, then there would be ideal conditions.
  • gsev
    gsev 21 June 2020 00: 00 New
    0
    Quote: Avior
    Evaluated its success is very low.

    Apparently the most successful saboteur was Konstantin Zaslonov. In the fall of 1941, every third Germans killed by the partisans seemed to be destroyed by his squad. Zaslonovtsy laid under the guise of coal explosives in the fuel of German steam locomotives. There is a point of view that the destruction of only 5 captured locomotives from the Germans east of the Dnieper in September 1941 could prevent the fall of Crimea in 1941.
  • Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 19 June 2020 10: 25 New
    +7
    Quote: Far In
    von Braun will not agree with you.

    Von Braun also fell under this campaign. There is a chic fragment of General Walter Dornberger’s memoirs - as a specialist in locomotives Degenkolb (effective manager), provided by Speer to help rockets, in early 1943 proposed an excellent business plan: to produce 900 rockets per month (moreover, as Degenkolb imagined), and to organize their production - to privatize and corporatize a missile test site. laughing
    At the beginning of February 1943, I was invited to Berlin, to the Ministry of Arms, to meet with Professor Hettlage, head of the department of financial and organizational problems of the German military industry.
    “Colonel,” Hettlage began, “I invited you to discuss the best way to transform an army institution in Peenemuende into a private joint-stock company.”
    “May I ask who this proposal came from?”
    “The plan,” answered Hettlage, “owes its birth to the proposal of Mr. Degenkolba.”
    So I thought.
    “May I ask how this change is supposed to take place?”
    - We will transform Peenemuende into a limited liability company. Currently, the entire capital of the company remains in the hands of the state. The company itself will be managed by a large concern, which will take on the role of a trustee - for example, General Electric, Siemens, Lorenz or Rheinmetall - and then, after the amortization of the invested capital, the company will become the property of the company.
    Truly a monstrous plan!
    “Are you up to date,” I asked innocently, “that the value of Peenemünde, including all the money already spent, amounts to several hundred million marks?” And it is unlikely that such costs can cause a temptation in industry.
    “We have already held a tender,” Hettlage explained, “and we can split the capital into assets of one and two million.”

    Germany, they said ... Ordnung, they said ... smile
    And yes, the list of shareholders is also pleasing.
  • Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
    Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 19 June 2020 14: 16 New
    -2
    Mussolini was worthless, waste, useless trash, and also a former agent, either MI-5, or MI-6. This Skorzeny needed to be promoted! And no one needed Mussolini, unless Hitler was temporarily. But my opinion is subjective. In 2045, the British will open their archives and the world will be convinced that I was right. It’s a pity, I won’t live and don’t know ... But it’s interesting to know!
    1. Astra wild
      Astra wild 19 June 2020 17: 56 New
      +1
      “Skorzeny needed to be promoted” and he went to Hitler “my Fuhrer, I need to have PR and I will deliver Mussolini to you” was it your way?
      I doubt it very much. I think Otto Skorzeny, after the war, made the maximum use of this operation for his own purposes.
      "worthless, waste, useless stuff" I doubt it. Benito Mussolini was considered the founder of fascism and suddenly Mussolini is captured. In conditions of war, it was of great propaganda and symbolic significance, and Hitler understood this well.
      "agent either Mi-5 or Mi-6" well, that would be cool: the head of the enemy state is working for England! This is about the same as saying that Mannerheim prevented Hitler from capturing Leningrad.
      1. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
        Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 22 June 2020 13: 22 New
        -1
        1. Read the biography of Mr. Skorzeny - he’s not so cool as we were previously imposed in the USSR. In his biography there are many spots and mysteries, and even after 1945 - even more of them. In general, an accomplice of Tel Aviv and the point. I clearly explained? And yet - what Skorzeny did not participate in other landing operations of the Reich? In Crete in May 1941, I did not see something ... Yes, and in other places, too.
        2. Mussolini was more a symbol than a real politician and personality. I generally believe that before the WWII the Anglo-Saxons were too clever and Italy ended up on the wrong side. Alas. Somewhere like Churchill had a similar, but I do not remember exactly.
        3. And what about Mussolini’s work in England - why not? And the absence of his signatures in salary payments in MI-5 or MI-6 also does not say anything. For agents of this level, they may not conduct personal affairs in the personnel department. By the way, Canaris led Abwehr and received salaries at two cash desks - at home and in England. And nothing. Extra money is not.
        4. About Mannerheim more complicated - he did not particularly interfere with the Reich, but also did not really help. Some European countries also participated in WWII in a peculiar way - for example, Bulgaria, Spain, Switzerland, Portugal. And we’ll keep silent about some at all - these are Sweden and Turkey. But I do not want to discuss this topic. I am at work and I have no time. Alas.
    2. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 20 June 2020 18: 34 New
      +1
      Quote: Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
      Mussolini was worthless, waste, useless trash

      That's just his return extended the participation of Italy in the war
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild 19 June 2020 16: 54 New
    +1
    There is a mention of this in t / c "Seventeen Moments of Spring"
  • Free wind
    Free wind 19 June 2020 06: 46 New
    +6
    Our patriots say it was a dead end. But they hunted for the development of the Germans. If I received the atomic bomb, I would immediately use it against Berlin. And I would not repent at all. And I do not blame the Americans at all. Yapi got what they deserve.
    1. Dr. Frankenstucker
      Dr. Frankenstucker 19 June 2020 09: 45 New
      -1
      Quote: Free Wind
      If I received the atomic bomb, I would immediately use it against Berlin.


      curious, by the way, thought. I also thought about such a fantastic story) But, I believe, in the conditions of a dense urban development, an extensive network of shelters, well-organized evacuation, medical and fire services, the constant readiness of the population and the garrison for air raids, the weak Kid and Fat would have little effect. Berlin is not paper Hiroshima / Nagasaki. If daily bombing by utilitarian BP did not demoralize the Germans fatally, then a demonstration of an atomic bomb of 18-20 kt would not have really impressed them.
      1. Avior
        Avior 19 June 2020 10: 22 New
        -5
        I would impress, as well as the Japanese.
        They did not know how many were available.
        Although they would have bombed piece by piece, they would always have been threatened that one day they would demolish all of Germany.
    2. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 20 June 2020 18: 37 New
      0
      Quote: Free Wind
      If I received the atomic bomb, I would immediately use it against Berlin. And I wouldn’t repent at all

      In the Second World War, both sides had poisonous gases, and the Japanese also had bacteriological weapons, but for some reason no one used them, even after the collapse of Germany became clear
  • Undecim
    Undecim 19 June 2020 12: 09 New
    +6
    Samsonov unscrupulously plagiarized someone else's article, and even clumsily translated it with a google translator. Obviously, his mother in childhood did not familiarize herself with the doctrine that taking someone else's without permission is ugly. The quality of the site’s content is "falling rapidly."
    1. Astra wild
      Astra wild 19 June 2020 18: 33 New
      0
      Victor Nikolaevich, in this case, can you name the REAL article?
      P
      S
      I already noticed that you have a "sympathy" for Samsonov. I actually came to the site because of him. By chance, somewhere his publication on ancient Russia came across, and now I see that he, as a historian, is "weak"
  • Petersburg printing house
    Petersburg printing house 19 June 2020 12: 59 New
    +1
    Interesting case. However, if you look at the cause-effect relationship, the narrow-mindedness of the Germans will remain incomprehensible. The first group, abandoned in Norway and captured by the Wehrmacht, was tortured and executed.
    The surviving saboteurs were captured by the Germans, questioned and executed.
    . No one talked about the upcoming sabotage and the second group was able to get to the plant almost unhindered? Perhaps luck had a hand in it and they were very lucky. The main thing is that the project was never implemented by Hitler. It’s scary to imagine that Germany would have had nuclear weapons ..
    1. vladcub
      vladcub 19 June 2020 17: 27 New
      +2
      "Nobody talked about the upcoming sabotage" is this a curious moment, perhaps not everyone knew about the details of the operation?
      If the Gestapo knew about the upcoming sabotage, so that they would not take preventive measures? I doubt it very much.
  • alsoclean
    alsoclean 19 June 2020 14: 17 New
    0
    Interestingly - 15 tons of deuterium oxide. At the bottom 76 years ago. What next? Got it or lies there still?
    1. AllBiBek
      AllBiBek 19 June 2020 17: 36 New
      +1
      We got about 15 years ago one of the barrels. We measured the concentration of heavy isotopes in the contents, decided that it was not worth it, and the lifting operation was curtailed.
    2. Astra wild
      Astra wild 19 June 2020 18: 37 New
      +1
      Not long ago, I watched some kind of a program on environmental issues on TV, and the question was raised: how many more of these barrels will stand? After all, this is a time bomb!
  • vladcub
    vladcub 19 June 2020 17: 18 New
    +1
    Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
    Quote: Ragnar lodbrok
    And the theft of Mussolini by nothing.


    but how elegant! )))

    Quote: Ragnar lodbrok
    Here is the best diversion in my opinion - November 13, 1943


    and the high-explosive fires in Struga and Kharkov in 1941?
    )

    Radiofugasy - it was a great idea, but not fully implemented
  • Nikolai Miracles
    Nikolai Miracles 19 June 2020 17: 20 New
    +2
    These old men broke the nuclear program of Germany. Eternal memory to them!
  • AllBiBek
    AllBiBek 19 June 2020 17: 27 New
    -1
    If it is possible in the history of WWII to find the most senseless and stupid sabotage, then this is like the destruction of a factory for the production of heavy war.
    the Americans already knew very well that a heavy water moderator reactor was science fiction, and that they did not need any reactor for the production of industrial quantities of uranium-235 - they also knew.
    It was necessary on the contrary, in every possible way to support the German desire to try to get nuclear weapons in the most costly ways possible, preferably obviously dead-end, and here it is. Let not several SS battalions be sent to guard this plant, but a couple of divisions, and an air army in addition to them.
    And so, without heavy water - what prevented the Germans from turning to the schedule, which they have as dirt, as a neutron moderator?
    In general, this is not "the main diversion of WWII", it is a shame for the British special services.
    1. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 19 June 2020 18: 25 New
      +2
      no reactor needed for production of industrial quantities of uranium-235

      Of course not needed. 235 needs centrifuges or other methods (like mass spectrometers or diffusion methods). The reactor is needed for plutonium-239. By the way, the Bratsk Hydroelectric Power Station in the USSR was initially built as an energy source for the production of heavy water, but then managed to achieve good results on a graphite moderator. Therefore, there was a decision to curtail this construction, however, the construction management began the closure of the Angara in the winter, in order to still build a hydroelectric station. Built. They began to make aluminum from alumina. To whom it belongs now, I don’t know, Deripaska, I guess.
      1. AllBiBek
        AllBiBek 19 June 2020 18: 54 New
        0
        So I'm about the same.
        I don’t remember the details of the German nuclear program, but they planned to use heavy water not in the reactor, but in charge, and the design was planned both cyclopean and chimeric.
        What is characteristic, after the war - already in the 50s - the first Soviet uranium charge was made by the German experts who had just been taken out, and if they had been doing it initially, and not dancing around the reactor, they would have received it, and even that would not be a fact that they would use maximum as a weapon of last chance. And - they stupidly did not have so much Congolese otranite to put atomic charges into series, and the mines in the Czech Republic turned out to be poor on tap.
        But - the story went like this. Fortunately, even the explosion of this Norwegian plant did not stop.
        1. Nikolai Miracles
          Nikolai Miracles 19 June 2020 19: 53 New
          +2
          The heavy water zero-power reactor started operating in Berlin in 1942, but it burned down because pure powdered metal uranium was used and it was extremely flammable. The laboratory assistant was worried about the temperature increase, he decided to check if the water got into the section with uranium powder. I unscrewed the plug, and there a vacuum formed. The air sucked in, and immediately the flame came from there. The "viral outhouse" burned out. David Irving's Viral Outhouse.
          So that is nothing cyclopean. The heavy water reactor is even smaller in size than graphite. Only price ratio against heavy water reactors.
          By the way, the Americans repeated the Germans' mistake with the calculations, and also graphite "proved to be unsuitable." But the Americans double-checked the calculations and found a mistake, but the Germans did not check.
          1. AllBiBek
            AllBiBek 19 June 2020 21: 45 New
            0
            For some reason, their project was set aside for me to launch an uncontrolled fusion based on heavy water and through a directed explosion of tons of tons of chemical explosives. You are not up to date for the details?
            I studied this topic for a long time, and more from paper sources, and their reliability in the early 00s is highly doubtful ...
            1. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 19 June 2020 22: 03 New
              0
              Well, the project may have been, but this is, as the lawyers say, “an attempt with unsuitable means.”
            2. Nikolai Miracles
              Nikolai Miracles 20 June 2020 06: 25 New
              0
              Apparently like you. I had to read a scientific comment that after the Second World War many countries repeated this experiment repeatedly with the same result. Inside the ball of explosive are radial channels through which jet streams are directed toward the center. During their collision, the temperature reached about 1 million degrees, and a minimum of 200 million was needed. The idea was repeated more or less successfully in the laser initiation of the thermonuclear reaction, where deuterium + tritium is squeezed by concentric laser beams.
        2. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 19 June 2020 22: 01 New
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          but they planned to use heavy water not in the reactor, but in charge, and the design was planned both cyclopean and chimeric.

          I don’t understand how the “twilight Teutonic genius” was going to put a neutron moderator into the charge of the simplest scheme (fission alone). If, as a fuel for thermonuclear poison, then of course it is possible there, the Americans did so by blowing up a cryogenic device with dimensions of 10 x 10 x 10 m in 1953.
  • Yuri Mikhailovsky
    Yuri Mikhailovsky 21 June 2020 21: 47 New
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    "considered British"
  • DYDYMISCHA
    DYDYMISCHA 22 June 2020 01: 22 New
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    You were not mistaken about 15 tons of heavy water, in a lake like 200 kg. drowned.