The addition of the "river-sea" in the composition of the ships: The timing of the transfer of the Black Sea Fleet MRK project 21631 "Grayvoron"

Small missile ship project 21631 (code "Buyan-M") "Grayvoron" began mooring trials. According to the press service of the Russian Navy, the ship will become part of the Black Sea fleet until the end of the year.

As explained in the press service, RTOs will undergo mooring tests, during which experts will check the operation of the main general ship systems and systems of the main power plant. Also, in parallel with the commissioning works, the arrangement and decoration of the ship's living and service premises will be carried out. After the end of this stage, “Grayvoron” will be relocated to Novorossiysk, where the factory running and state tests will be held.

Under the contract, the ship will become part of the Black Sea Fleet by the end of 2020. According to available information, RTOs will replenish the 41st Sevastopol Order of Nakhimov with a crew of missile boats. The brigade includes the MRK division and the tactical group of missile boats. The crew for the ship is already prepared.

Small missile ship "Grayvoron" is the eighth serial ship of project 21631, built at the JSC "Zelenodolsk plant named after AM Gorky" by order of the Russian Navy. Laid down on April 10, 2015, named after the city of Grayvoron in the Belgorod region of Russia.

RTOs of project 21631 "Buyan-M" are multipurpose ships of the "river-sea" type, equipped with modern weapons, including eight high-precision cruise missiles "Caliber". Displacement - 949 tons with a length of 75 meters and a width of 11 meters. The maximum speed is 25 knots. Cruising range - 2500 miles, autonomy - 10 days. The crew is 52 people. Installed jet propulsion.

Comments

[Sergey39]

4 more under construction.

[Oleg kubanoid]

why 4? Grayvoron the ninth. 3 turns out ..

[antivirus]

again a trifle (spoon). when will Shoigu lay a carrier in 100 tons of explosives?

[ultra]

Quote: antivirus

when Shoigu lays a \ bearer in 100 tons of VI

In my opinion, we don’t need them. It’s better to spend money on more urgent tasks.

[Oleg kubanoid]

I would not put it that way ... at the moment it is better to spend money on something more necessary. in the future AV is needed .. at the moment we have nowhere to build it ..

[ultra]

I would argue about the prospect.

[Alexey Sommer]

Quote: ultra

I would argue about the prospect.

I personally am very happy.
This 3rd-class boat with a displacement of less than 1000 tons, if that. Able to destroy the floor of England, if the calibers will be special warhead. By efficiency, it’s like a Toyota pickup with a machine gun in Syria. Only at sea and instead of a machine gun 150 kt in one warhead out of 8 available.

[Grits]

Quote: Alexey Sommer

This 3rd-class boat with a displacement of less than 1000 tons, if that. Able to destroy the floor of England, if the calibers will be special warhead. By efficiency, it’s like a Toyota pickup with a machine gun in Syria. Only at sea and instead of a machine gun 150 kt in one warhead out of 8 available.

And the most necessary place for him is the Caspian. Because there is no one to drown him. There are no powerful surface ships, there are no submarines under the cover of their aircraft (because he has no air defense). But it can with impunity and irresponsibly spit a rocket over 2,6 thousand kilometers. It’s such a small, small and very nasty bully with a slingshot that you can’t catch and catch.

[ultra]

I wrote about aircraft carriers.

[Alexey Sommer]

Quote: ultra

I wrote about aircraft carriers.

And here is a topic about Buyan)
By the way, this is Buyan, a sheer can bring more of some aircraft carrier.

[Nemchinov Vl]

Quote: Alexey Sommer

I personally am very happy.

Interestingly, and I would prefer to buy myself "Tavria", or at least "Lada Priora" or "Opel Astra" (even in the basic version with 1,4 and 16 valves) ?!

Quote: Alexey Sommer

Only at sea and

quite controversial with excitement (!), no matter the cruising range ... ?!

[antivirus]

it does not convince me - my minusers.
they are clearly lobbyists-pushers of cable products or paintwork. sit on s \ pl Yaroslavl paints or Perm cable factory (?)

[Kalmar]

Quote: ultra

In my opinion, we don’t need them. It’s better to spend money on more urgent tasks.

Actually, the usefulness of the "Buyan" was also repeatedly questioned on the pages of this site: slow, poor seaworthiness, no air defense / anti-aircraft defense. In fact, not so much a ship as the floating launcher "Caliber", somehow relevant during the INF Treaty and not particularly interesting now.

[Malyuta]

Quote: Kalmar

In fact, not so much a ship as the floating launcher "Caliber", somehow relevant during the INF Treaty and not particularly interesting now.

I agree with you In the days of the USSR, containers with similar missiles could be placed on dry cargo vessels. Now, there are developments too.

[5-9]

Caliber-PKR can no longer be put there or Onyx?
And to retreat to Middle-earth and from the southern flank to threaten with (naturally nuclear) Caliber?
Is it better to air defense / missile defense in a boat up to a thousand tons with 8 large strike missiles from whom?
The bias is understandable of course ... but ...

[Kalmar]

Quote: 5-9

And to retreat to Middle-earth and from the southern flank to threaten with (naturally nuclear) Caliber?

Threaten who? NATO? Let me remind you that Turkey is its member, without whose permission "Buyan" will not enter any Mediterranean. Well, plus the autonomy of 10 days - to threaten a little and go home for refueling. If earlier the enemy submarine will not be caught.

[5-9]

Staaaa ..... ???? Montreux how the INF Treaty canceled the stol?
Yes, and somehow there is Latakia .... And "the enemy submarine will get caught" - even then the AUG will not be able to "threaten" ...

[Kalmar]

Quote: 5-9

Staaaa ..... ???? Montreux how the INF Treaty canceled the stol?

We understand that in the event of a serious exacerbation, the Buyans will not pass into the Mediterranean Sea for no reason? At the very least, they will receive an unofficial escort from a pair of Turkish diesel-electric submarines.

Quote: 5-9

And "the enemy submarine will be caught" - even then the AUG will not be able to "threaten" ...

If the ship basically has means of detecting and destroying submarines, then there are many options.

[5-9]

Well, an escort, so what?
The Turks, in "case of a serious aggravation," have nothing to do but accompany ships with possibly nuclear missiles, which they may fire at some American base a thousand kilometers from their borders .... yes, they will put everything at the wall, take a picture and say " repair-quarantine-threat of Kurdish terrorists "... all ashore.
Once again, finding a ship with nuclear missiles that cover all of Europe from a direction where air defense is not deployed is a huge threat .... but you can even destroy the Death Star .. and even the submarine :))

[Kalmar]

Quote: 5-9

Once again, finding a ship with nuclear missiles that cover all of Europe from a direction where air defense is not deployed is a huge threat

Not so huge if the ship breathes in the back of the head a submarine that the ship does not see and cannot hear. This is not to mention that the boat will also be closely scanned from the air, and he will not be able to do anything about it: the air defense is too short.

[5-9]

The submarine will jump out of the water and kaaaak grab all the CDs in an armful and drag them to the bottom, did the Schaub explode there?


PL ... round-the-clock surveillance from the air .... for a boat less than a thousand tons ... and you are useless, useless ...

[Nemchinov Vl]

Quote: 5-9

Once again, finding a ship with nuclear missiles that cover all of Europe from a direction where air defense is not deployed is a huge threat ..

This is about "Buyan-M" ?! ...

Quote: 5-9

and you can even destroy the Death Star .. and even the submarine :))

to him WHAT to destroy ?!... you are not in the same car with M. Efremov (and not from one tavern / hookah) went ?!... -

Quote: 5-9

The submarine will jump out of the water and kaaaak grab all the CDs in an armful and drag them to the bottom, did the Schaub explode there?

(you understand what this issue is related to ?!) ...

Quote: 5-9

PL ... round-the-clock surveillance from the air .... for a boat less than a thousand tons ... and you are useless, useless ...

?! really thought about the car with Efremov, when, -

Quote: 5-9

Staaaa ..... ???? Montreux how the INF Treaty canceled the stol?
Yes, and somehow there is Latakia .... And "the enemy submarine will get caught" - even then the AUG will not be able to "threaten" ...

...????

[Alex draft]

Which tasks do you think are more relevant?

[smart ass]

Better 10 frigates instead of kuzi

[Grits]

Quote: Clever man

Better 10 frigates instead of kuzi

Better 10 frigates and Kuzya

[Malyuta]

Quote: antivirus

when will Shoigu lay a carrier in 100 tons of explosives?

Only after ragozin builds a "lunar elevator" and flies to Mars.

[zwlad]

But why do we need an aircraft carrier?
Well, it's just interesting to know the concept of its application.

[Alex 2020]

But why do we need an aircraft carrier?

Well, just that would be. And there, somehow, they’ll come up with what, why .... why.

[zwlad]

By type - do they have us too?
And how much will he eat?
Russia is far from the USSR, where there was money for several identical programs for different design bureaus, in order to select the best later.

[paul3390]

Cover the deployment areas of the RKPSN ...

[zwlad]

From whom? Ships? Sub? Aviation?

[Alexey RA]

Quote: paul3390

Cover the deployment areas of the RKPSN ...

More precisely, to cover their ships from the air covering these areas.
Without AB, it’s better not to move farther than 300-400 km from the nearest airfield - otherwise coastal aviation may simply not be in time.

[Hey]

when will Shoigu lay a carrier in 100 tons of explosives?

The other day on TV there was a program about the fortified areas "named after Stalin" and "named after Molotov", which cost a lot of money for their construction and even more money for their maintenance. And their effectiveness turned out to be close to zero.
(And this is instead of spending these funds on smaller and more quantitative tanks, planes, artillery. Or at least on the same cars.)
And the construction of an aircraft carrier in modern conditions from the same "opera".

[Kalmar]

Quote: MUD

And the construction of an aircraft carrier in modern conditions from the same "opera".

But why? If you need aviation at a substantial distance from your coast, there is essentially no alternative to an aircraft carrier. The same British felt this very well when they fought for the Falklands.

[zwlad]

and where do we need aviation at such a distance? well in the short term?

[Kalmar]

Quote: zwlad

and where do we need aviation at such a distance? well in the short term?

In the near future, most likely, nowhere, therefore, in the same perspective, we do not need AB. Other countries have a different situation, and in our country, perhaps, in the distant future, needs will change.

[Vlad Malkin]

МУД (МУД)

The fact is that almost all weapons were removed from the old fortified area, and almost everything was not completely built on the new border. Therefore, it happened: neither here nor there!

[fiberboard]

In this program, it was understood that the URs were disarmed and mothballed. If used correctly, the Germans would have suffered heavy losses. And it is not the fault of the URs that Stalin did not have sensible military commanders capable of correctly using them.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: fiberboard

If used correctly, the Germans would have suffered heavy losses.

Wouldn't have. The "Stalin Line" was built against a completely different army and according to completely different norms than the "Molotov Line". The shallow depth of the UR, the lack of all-round defense of the defense areas, the predominance of frontal fire bunkers and the poor quality of work - both design, when laying out UR on the ground, and construction. Even under the condition of de-conservation and the presence of infantry filling of the SD, the "Stalin's Lines" were broken through by the Germans in three to four days.
It is not surprising that the only UR of this line that withstood the blow was Karelsky - because it was attacked by the army that was taken into account during the construction: infantry with divisional artillery, light tanks, an extremely small number of large-caliber guns, without heavy tanks and assault self-propelled guns, without mechanized connections .
The Molotov Line was designed and built according to the 1938 UR System, which was additionally corrected according to the results of the SPV. And these were already completely different SDs than in the early-mid-30s:

1) The fortified area consists of several (5-8) defense nodes. Fortified areas have the following operational and tactical purpose:
a) reliably cover the most important operational areas or areas, as well as represent the reference lines for the actions of field troops in defense and offensive operations;
b) to be a solid support for the maneuver of our forces in the event of an enemy attack in neighboring operational areas.
The system for organizing a fortified area must meet the following requirements:
a) the mutual arrangement of defense nodes and camouflage them to create fire bags for the enemy;
b) on the most important operational lines of defense, defense nodes are usually located in a checkerboard and step order to a depth of 8-15 km;
c) between the fortified areas operational breaks are allowed with a length of 12-20 km;
d) operational gaps in threatened areas are closed by defense units located in the depths of the ledge 10-15-20 km from the defense units of the 1st line. Operational gaps should be blocked by artillery fire on the flanking and in-depth defense units;
e) between the defense nodes, gaps of 5 to 8 km are allowed, which must be reliably blocked by fire from long-term artillery structures and field artillery from defense nodes. The gaps between the defense nodes can be filled with means of field fortification and defended by field troops;
f) fortified areas have their own special garrisons, the number of which is determined for each fortified area separately.
Fortified areas should have 1-2 mobile divisions of anti-aircraft weapons each

1. SD should have a total defense depth of 15-20 km, consisting of TWO bands of defense nodes, between which field positions (including cut-offs) and barriers are created. According to protocol # 7 of the GVS KA, the depth of the defense nodes was 5-10 km., And the defense nodes in the SD were located in one lane.
2. SD in front of the main strip of defense nodes may have a FOSSIL, the depth of which depends on the removal of the front edge of the main strip of the SD from the state border, operational considerations and the nature of the terrain.

[dvina71]

Quote: antivirus

. when will Shoigu lay a carrier in 100 tons of explosives?

I hope no sooner than there is protection against anti-ship missile defense .. Avik has restrictions on the use of aircraft .. I don’t remember the ballast, pr.855 a storm on the surface is indifferent .. he will launch his missiles ..

[Kalmar]

Quote: dvina71

Avik has restrictions on the use of aircraft .. I do not remember the score

So any ship has its limitations. At the same ave. 885 (are you talking about him?) They also have enough. Here you just need to understand why you need a fleet and which ships have enough resources; proceeding from this and decide what and how much to build.

[Xnumx vis]

Quote: antivirus

again a trifle (spoon). when will Shoigu lay a carrier in 100 tons of explosives?

An aircraft carrier of 250 thousand tons with a displacement is required, and preferably 550!

[antivirus]

Yes, I was mistaken for one toe - a need for 1 tons of VI
no jokes - is there money and places in the world of their applications that need protection by naval aircraft? they are not building Shoigu + USC, but Sechin, Gref- Miller + Alikverov-Daripaska, and tp "business captains" ORDER MUSIC.
-There is a nonsense at our business, so that their plans should be protected so far, in the future for 5-10 years, is there a timeline for building aircraft carriers? Except for Venisuela, where else?
name the countries and calculate their trickle of money in the pocket of the Russian Federation and the price of protecting that money with aircraft carriers.

[Xnumx vis]

Quote: antivirus

except venicewell where else?

Like Where in Space! But I put a plus for you ... Sometimes the strangest projects come to life ...

[Interlocutor]

again a trifle (spoon)

"River - Sea" with rockets. Just think about it. The potential is still there. For tactics - not a plowed field.
Where will he swim .... Then I exaggerate ... On the Volga - mother I put 100 pieces - here's an additional defense line.

[Rubi0]

First you need to build ports that remained in the Baltic States and Ukraine, then ships of 100 tons each so that you could ship to, like Afromaks which were again built in Ukraine (even though the Kerch Bay has returned) and only then, to protect the waterways along which these vessels will be laid aircraft carriers and cruisers so that no one would scorch and threaten the blockade, otherwise ships of this class like a cruiser just pull the loot, but someone else must earn it. How bitter the Russian Federation does not sound, there are still a lot of stones and productions that need to be returned / recreated on their land from the used CIS

[Pavel73]

Good boats. An alternative to ground launchers for cruise missiles. As a matter of fact, it was precisely because of these boats that the Americans became furious and left the INF Treaty. Under a far-fetched pretext.

[donavi49]

In the distant future, these boats would have scored a whole 1 Burke in the aggregate salvo. Out of 70 in the US Navy.

[Pavel73]

This is not the point. The bottom line is that the Buyans-M are able to walk along almost the entire United deep-sea system of the European part of Russia, from the Arctic Ocean to the Black Sea. In fact, they are a replacement for ground-based launchers of long-range cruise missiles, but at the same time they formally do not violate the INF Treaty. This is our asymmetric response to the American missile defense system in Europe. So they freaked out.

[donavi49]

Well, they could walk. Now look where there are rivers and how many hundreds of kilometers to fly idle (above your territory? (Rivers only as an opportunity to transfer from the south to the Baltic and vice versa). And the Polish object is covered without Caliber. Romanian not. However, again - they have the strongest in the world marine component of strike CDs in the world. In Russia, even in the long term, there would be a total of 3 berks in the strike setup, taking into account the submarines of all fleets (that is, unattainable for use). And the real potential component when focusing on 1 direction is about 1 strike berk.

Without an agreement - Russia gets a trump card, rivet the same CDs on wheeled chassis and put them in Kaliningrad, the European part of the country, or even abroad in a hidden version. Riveting mobile soil complexes in Russia has always come out much more vigorously than the fleet.

The United States will have a unique opportunity to critically reduce the flight time for the main facilities in the European part with the commissioning of a new generation of BRS (M) D which are already under active development. Given the possible deployment of complexes in the Baltic states, Georgia and Ukraine - in theory, it is possible to achieve the destruction of the main control centers and decision-making by a sudden strike. At least such a temptation will appear.

[hagen]

Quote: donavi49

The United States will have a unique opportunity to critically reduce the flight time for the main facilities in the European part with the commissioning of a new generation of BRS (M) D which are already under active development.

In these conditions, it is more necessary for us to have the means of guaranteed breakthrough of the missile defense system of the continental part of the United States and inflicting unacceptable damage to the United States, regardless of which bridgehead they decide to strike from. The alien trunk at the temple makes the hands, even with brass knuckles on the fingers, keep "at the seams". And the European "partners" will not start independent active actions without guarantees of help from the "big brother" nuclear club. There is also an ambitious Britain, which should also be classified as an enemy "decision-making center". At the moment when the United States is developing mini "nuclear weapons", we should think about the maxi. To heal the entire British crown with its viruses "with one pill" ...

[Kalmar]

Quote: Pavel73

In fact, they are a replacement for ground-based launchers of long-range cruise missiles, but they do not formally violate the INF Treaty. This is our asymmetric response to the American missile defense in Europe. So they freaked out.

I would like to note that the "partners" answered even more asymmetrically: they took and left the INF Treaty, making this series of ships de facto meaningless.

[Mechanic]

The rivers are shallow. They drove to the Baltic around Europe

[dvina71]

Quote: Mechanic

. They drove to the Baltic around Europe

Karakurts of the Kerch building, we are ready to argue with you ..

[Grits]

Quote: dvina71

Karakurts of the Kerch building, we are ready to argue with you ..

Which, by the way, are much less than the Buyans adapted to this.

[Mechanic]

Empty buildings from Karakurt, even patrolmen from Tatarstan on pontoons were transported.

[fiberboard]

We must transfer the sources of the Dnieper to the Volga, kill two birds with one stone at once: And we will fill the rivers and teach a formidable neighbor

[Xnumx vis]

Quote: Pavel73

that Buyany-M are able to walk along almost the entire United Deepwater System of the European part of Russia, from the Arctic Ocean to the Black Sea.

And also along the European Dnieper, Danube, from the Baltic Vistula, Rhine, Elba ... Everything can happen in this life ..... Anything.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Pavel73

This is not the point. The bottom line is that the Buyans-M are able to walk along almost the entire United deep-sea system of the European part of Russia, from the Arctic Ocean to the Black Sea.

Yeah ... capable - without a radar.

Quote: Pavel73

In fact, they are a replacement for land-based launchers of long-range cruise missiles

Which have neither the secrecy of the ground launchers, nor the air defense of normal ships.

[Sky strike fighter]

Quote: donavi49

In the distant future, these boats would have scored a whole 1 Burke in the aggregate salvo. Out of 70 in the US Navy.

Well, all the same, not 70, but less than 66 Arly Berkov as of 2019. But in an approximate amount, you were not mistaken.

In total, the US Navy for 2019 has 66 Arleigh Burke-class URO destroyers (DDG-51 - DDG-117) in service. The series has been built since 1988 and is divided into seven subclasses sequentially in terms of construction time and with improvement: Flight I, Flight II, Flight IIA: 5 "/ 54 variant, Flight IIA: 5" / 62 variant, Flight IIA: 5 "/ 62, one 20 mm CIWS variant, Flight IIA: Restart, Flight IIA: Technology Insertion.
The first 28 ships of the Arly Burke type (Flight I and Flight II series, DDG-51 - DDG-78) must remain in service for the US Navy for 35 years, that is, until 2026 - 2034. The service life of the following 34 ships (Flight IIA series, DDG-79 - DDG-113) is determined to be 40 years, that is, until 2040–2056.
To date, without a doubt, in its class, the largest series of destroyers of the URO type “Arly Burke” are the best ships in the world. The first highlight of Arly Berkov is the universal vertical launch launcher Mk-41, controlled by the Aegis system, which is equally used to launch the Tomahawk operational tactical missiles, missiles for air defense and missile defense: SM-2, SM -3, SM-6, RIM-7M Sea Sparrow, RIM-162A ESSM, as well as anti-submarine missiles (PLUR) RUM-139 VLA (ASROC).
The second "highlight" of the American destroyers is their ship BIOS; the Aegis system. Among other military functions, Aegis allows you to embed Arly Burke in the US global missile defense system.

https://eadaily.com/ru/news/2019/09/20/dogonyaya-rossiyu-ssha-razvernut-v-arktike-esmincy-uro-tipa-arli-berk

[dvina71]

Quote: donavi49

In the distant future, these boats would have scored a whole 1 Burke in the aggregate salvo. Out of 70 in the US Navy.

On a volley of PCR it is exactly equal to Arly. Moreover, the American PCR is subsonic. In general, I compare with a displacement of 1k .. with a destroyer of 8k ... Why? Will go to sea Nakhimov .. with dozens of pu for different missiles .. in the IS and GZ .... Compare ...

[Kalmar]

Quote: dvina71

On a volley of PCR it is exactly equal to Arly. Moreover, the American PCR is subsonic.

First, the Berks will be gradually equipped with LRASMs, the number of which on one ship can be significant.

Secondly, the advantages and disadvantages of subsonic and supersonic anti-ship missiles are not so straightforward.

Thirdly, with whom will the Buyans fight these anti-ship missiles? Some are assigned to the KF (there is no enemy there), some to the Baltic Fleet (where they will be unrolled by the basic aviation earlier), some to the Black Sea Fleet (well, only here, perhaps, they will be able to snatch some Turk).

And so, yes, it is pointless to compare Berks and Buyans: these ships are made for completely different purposes.

[dvina71]

Quote: Kalmar

At first

And secondly and thirdly .. it is necessary to compare the comparable. We take an American boat with a displacement of 1ct and compare it with Buyan .. You are still Arly with an inflatable boat with a machine gun compare ...

[Kalmar]

Quote: dvina71

it is necessary to compare the comparable

Yeah, about this is just the last paragraph of my comment.

[Nemchinov Vl]

Quote: dvina71

Will go to sea Nakhimov .. with dozens of pu for different missiles .. in the IS and GZ .... Compare ...

and will come out ?! namely "Nakhimov", or only - the plan of its release ?! and when ?!.... wait, wait ... ?!

[dvina71]

Quote: Vl Nemchinov

and will come out

It will come out ... and don’t hope .... I’m driving past the factory .. I’m waiting for the forests to be removed ...

[Pavel73]

Yes, 10 Buyanov-M in terms of striking power is approximately equal to one Burke. But to sink one Burke, one hit is enough. To sink 10 Buyanov, you need 10 hits. To track one Burke, you need to monitor him alone, and over the sea. To track 10 Buyans, you need to follow them all, and on our territory. Burke can only go to sea. Buyan - both at sea and along rivers, where it is much easier to hide. Burke is almost impossible to disguise. Buyan is much easier. Buyan still has many advantages as a retaliatory weapon.

[Kalmar]

Quote: Pavel73

Yes, 10 Buyanov-M in terms of striking power is approximately equal to one Burke.

And nine women carry a child without problems in a month)

Quote: Pavel73

But to sink one Burke, one hit is enough. To sink 10 Buyanov, you need 10 hits.

But: for one hit to the "Buyan" one or two missiles are needed (he has no air defense). Burke will have to be processed on a much larger scale. Moreover, in a combat situation, he is unlikely to be alone.

Quote: Pavel73

To track 10 Buyans, you need to follow them all, and on our territory. Burke can only go to sea. Buyan - both at sea and along rivers, where it is much easier to hide.

Only "Berk" is a ship of the oceanic zone, while the "Buyan" seaworthiness very strongly limits it at sea. In fact, it will be somewhere near the coastline. And if you drive it into the depths of the territory along the rivers, then it loses its distinct advantages over conventional land-based launchers like Iskander.

[Pavel73]

With Burke, the situation will not come to a battle. Even one such ship, entering the Black Sea, receives the closest attention from our aviation and coastal missile systems. The simultaneous approach of several Berks to the launch distance of Tomahawk, say in Moscow, will mean preparation for the first decapitation strike, and the answer will no longer be for Berks. Buyan is the ship of retaliation.

[Kalmar]

Quote: Pavel73

With Burke, the situation will not come to a battle.

Remind me, why do we even then RCC?

Quote: Pavel73

The simultaneous approach of several Berks to the launch distance of Tomahawk, say in Moscow, will mean preparation for the first decapitation strike, and the answer will no longer be for Berks.

A decapitation blow? Tomahawks? From Berkov? For the covert launch of Tomahawks (beheading in the open - an obvious addiction) there is a nuclear submarine. There is an ICBM for a decapitation strike (slow-moving Tomahawks are such a choice).

[Pavel73]

And who said that they are not drug addicts? How is it written there in the NATO charter? If, supposedly, one of the members of the alliance is attacked, then this will be regarded as an attack on the entire alliance. Right? But then the opposite is also true: the attack of any member of the alliance on someone means the attack on him of the entire alliance. And which member of the alliance to roll out in response, it already depends on the desire of the victim of the attack. In these circumstances, ramping up into NATO is a delayed suicide. That Americans are smashing us at NATO members. And in response we will erase Poland’s NATO member. They really want to be the first to get an answer. So they ask for American bases and nuclear weapons on their territory. Isn't that an addiction?

[Grits]

Quote: Kalmar

Only "Berk" is a ship of the oceanic zone, while the "Buyan" seaworthiness very strongly limits it at sea.

Comparison in style - who is stronger - 1 bear or 10 dogs? True, the dogs understand that once again, you don’t need to go to the forest for walks - this is not their territory. Suddenly there, along with the bear, will there be a couple more pieces of dipper? But the bear also understands that climbing into the village, where a pack of dogs will start wringing it, is also not handy. Yes, even in the village a man can meet with a double-barreled gun.

[Nemchinov Vl]

Quote: Kalmar

But: for one hit to the "Buyan" one or two missiles are needed (he has no air defense). Burke will have to be processed on a much larger scale. Moreover, in a combat situation, he is unlikely to be alone.

I agree with this opinion, although I do not know the name of the interlocutor (!).
when they argue with him, hoping that, -

Quote: Pavel73

With Burke, the situation will not come to a battle.

I don’t quite understand the idea of ​​opponents (!)...

Quote: Pavel73

The simultaneous approach of several Berks to the launch distance of Tomahawk, say in Moscow, will mean preparation for the first decapitation strike, and the answer will no longer be for Berks.

Oh, oh?! ..

Quote: Pavel73

Buyan is precisely the retaliation ship.

straight boldly so (!)...

Quote: Kalmar

A decapitation blow? Tomahawks? From Berkov? For the covert launch of Tomahawks (beheading in the open - an obvious addiction) there is a nuclear submarine. There is an ICBM for a decapitation strike (slow-moving Tomahawks are such a choice).

don’t have to ... you’ll baffle him ...

Quote: Pavel73

And who said that they are not drug addicts?

They are ?! ?! ...

[5-9]

Typical loading of the Burke - 22 Axes ... especially for shock functions, in the absence of a threat from the sea, air and from under the water when hitting Shairat, they screwed 30 with a small piece.

[exo]

The combat value of the boat is more than dubious. But, the names of these ships are a nightmare!
After all, there was a "bad weather division": a blizzard, fog, etc. It sounded nice though.

[Cyril G ...]

With the names of the ships we have a nightmare. Especially given the massive renaming of RTOs in bad weather.

[Victorio]

Quote: exo

The combat value of the boat is more than dubious. But, the names of these ships are a nightmare!
After all, there was a "bad weather division": a blizzard, fog, etc. It sounded nice though.

===
I think the presence of a sufficient number of such boats in the Caspian Sea will keep the entire Middle East in sight

[Oleg kubanoid]

without a major modernization of air defense .. a very easy goal .. whatever they say 21631 often go to mediocre ..

[Vasyan1971]

The crew for the ship is already prepared.

The most important thing! The rest will follow.

[Old26]

Quote: Pavel73

Good boats. An alternative to ground launchers for cruise missiles. As a matter of fact, it was precisely because of these boats that the Americans became furious and left the INF Treaty. Under a far-fetched pretext.

An alternative to ground-based launchers? To some extent. But ground-based launchers can be transferred to HZ where, and "Buyany-M" have limitations. And in the range, and in autonomy, and in terms of score.
And it is not because of these boats that the Americans left the INF. The fact is that the INF Treaty did not apply to shipboard launchers. Came out because of a completely different rocket, which was considered a violation of this treaty

Quote: Pavel73

This is not the point. The bottom line is that the Buyans-M are able to walk along almost the entire United deep-sea system of the European part of Russia, from the Arctic Ocean to the Black Sea.

And what can you offer besides the Volga and the Don as basing places. How far is the Volga from the western borders of Russia. In addition, no one has canceled the time limit of the year. There will be ice on the rivers and the boats will be fun. Even in which case they cannot escape

Quote: Mechanic

The rivers are shallow. They drove to the Baltic around Europe

And there was time along the Don transported to the Black Sea. Ships (such as minesweepers - on their own, boats - in floating docks ...

Quote: dvina71

Quote: Mechanic

. They drove to the Baltic around Europe

Karakurts of the Kerch building, we are ready to argue with you ..

You take particular. Unloaded ships, sometimes without masts (or without antennas on masts) at the optimum time (with high water) surpassed. And the fact that the same Don became shallow and a few years ago was told that from Zeleny Island it was possible to go barely soak your feet (figuratively) / who knows the geography of Rostov, roughly understands what I'm writing about /.

Quote: dvina71

Quote: Kalmar

At first

And secondly and thirdly .. it is necessary to compare the comparable. We take an American boat with a displacement of 1ct and compare it with Buyan .. You are still Arly with an inflatable boat with a machine gun compare ...

You are right, Gennady, it is necessary to compare the comparable. But sometimes it is our media that equates "Burk" and "Buyan", not realizing that even in terms of the number of launchers they are different ships. And some uryakalki, what can we say, as soon as the first volleys from the Caspian were heard, almost suffocated with delight. Remember the headlines: "Buyany-M will sweep the American fleet from the vastness of the oceans." And even now they sometimes compare. For there is nothing more to compare with, unfortunately. Maybe now, when the updated "Shaposhnikov" goes into operation, something will change and we can talk about a ship similar to the one in the US. But now, alas, only "Buyan-M" are in fact carriers of "Caliber"

Quote: Victorio

I think the presence of a sufficient number of such boats in the Caspian Sea will keep the entire Middle East in sight

In vain I think. Twice we fired from the Caspian Sea through the territory of Iran. Didn't ask ourselves the question, why are we now forced to shoot from the Eastern Mediterranean? Apparently the Iranians have vetoed such shooting. And let there be at least fifty "Buyans" and "Karakurt" there - if anything, Iran just knocks them down, if, contrary to its permission, we want to shoot at targets at B.V.

[Lord of the Sith]

Handsome, 7 feet under the keel!

[next322]

Apparently from the remaining 3 BSF at least 1 more will go, an almost full-fledged Buyan division will be ...... which is very good

[chingachguc]

minesweepers and anti-submarine ships are very necessary. In principle, RTOs are also needed, but only as an element of protection for the near sea zone

[iouris]

RF is a great river and lake power!