Military Review

Electric tank: prospects for the use of electric propulsion in ground combat equipment

147

Civilian equipment



The first electric cars appeared before cars with internal combustion engines (ICE), in 1828. At the beginning of the XNUMXth century, electric cars accounted for more than a third of the entire US fleet. However, then they gradually began to give up their positions, yielding to cars in range, ease of refueling and other parameters.


On an electric car equipped with two 50-kilowatt motors and a hundred two-volt battery cells, the Belgian race car driver Camille Zhenatsi April 29, 1899 for the first time in stories reached a speed of 100 km / h

Several design options for electric vehicles can be implemented. A classic electric car receives electricity from rechargeable batteries charged at a charging station. An electric vehicle with an external supply of electric energy receives electric power from external conductors by a contact method or by means of electromagnetic fields. To recharge the batteries of an electric vehicle, an internal combustion engine with a generator can be installed, or electricity can be generated from liquid or gaseous fuels directly using catalytic fuel cells. All of the above schemes can be combined in various ways.

Periodically, interest in electric vehicles was renewed, usually during an increase in the price of oil products, but quickly faded away: ICE cars remained out of competition. As a result, electric-powered equipment has become widespread in the segment of vehicles with an external supply of electric energy: electric trains, trams, trolley buses, and in the niche of warehouse equipment.

Special equipment can be distinguished as a separate segment, for example, mining dump trucks with a carrying capacity of over 100 tons, on which an electromechanical transmission is used.


BELAZ-75710 mining dump truck with a loading capacity of 450 tons. The power plant includes two electric generators, each of which is connected to a V-shaped sixteen-cylinder MTU Detroit Diesel 16V4000 diesel engine with a capacity of 1715 kW (2330 hp), the generated current is supplied to four motor wheels with a capacity of 1200 kW

At the beginning of the XXI century, interest in electric vehicles resumed at a new level. The determining factor was not the rise in price of oil products, but the demand of environmental activists to reduce harmful emissions. The manufacturer, who has ridden the "ecological wave" as much as possible, has become the American company Tesla of the adored (hated) by many Ilona Mask.

But who and no matter how relate to Ilon Mask, it is impossible to deny that a lot of work has been done by Tesla: in fact, a separate segment of the car market has been created, electric cars have become a direction in which the auto giants have begun to actively invest. If development is being actively pursued in a certain direction, then the result will be achieved sooner or later. There will be new batteries with increased capacity, high charging speed and an extended temperature range of application, more efficient and compact electric motors, with integrated gearboxes that can be placed in a wheel motor with a small unsprung mass and other developments.

There is no doubt that in the foreseeable future, electric cars will practically supplant ICE cars, and not for environmental reasons, but because of the general technical superiority of electric vehicles.


Electric Tesla-X

Military equipment


In 1917, the French company FAMH launched 400 tanks "Saint Chamond" with an electric transmission "Crochat Collendeau", in which the Panhard gasoline engine was connected directly to an electric generator, which supplied electric power to two electric motors, each of which was connected to a drive wheel and a caterpillar. Also in 1917, a tank with electric transmissions from Daimler and British Westhouse was tested in the UK.

Later examples include the German heavy self-propelled artillery mount (self-propelled gun) Ferdinand (Elephant) weighing 65 tons. The Ferdinand power plant included two Maybach HL 12 TRM V-shaped 120-cylinder carburetor water-cooled water-cooled engines with a capacity of 265 liters each. pp., two Siemens-Schuckert Typ aGV electric generators with a voltage of 365 volts and two Siemens-Schuckert D149aAC traction motors with a power of 230 kW each, located in the stern of the hull, which powered each of its wheels through a reduction gearbox made according to the planetary scheme.


SAU "Ferdinand"

With the relative novelty of Ferdinand, there are not so many complaints about its work. As such, one can note the greater complexity and cost in comparison with power plants of a classic design, as well as the need to use a significant amount of copper that is scarce in Germany.

In addition to the self-propelled guns Ferdinand, the use of electric propulsion was also considered in the German superheavy tank of the 188-ton tank Maus (Little Mouse).

Around the same period, in the USSR, the experimental heavy tank EKV with an electromechanical power plant was developed on the basis of the KV-1 tank. The technical design of the EKV tank was developed in September 1941, and in 1944 a prototype EKV tank was put to the test. It was assumed that the use of an electromechanical transmission on the tank will reduce fuel consumption, improve maneuverability and dynamic characteristics of the tank.

The electromechanical transmission of the EKV tank included a DK-502B starter-generator connected to a V-2K diesel engine, and two DK-301V traction electric motors, with two final drives and control equipment.

Electric tank: prospects for the use of electric propulsion in ground combat equipment
EKV tank image

According to the test results, the design of the EKV tank was recognized as unsatisfactory, the project was curtailed.

Projects of "electric" tanks were carried out in Britain, the USA, the USSR, Germany and France, as well as in other countries throughout the XNUMXth century. Nevertheless, at the current moment, tanks and armored vehicles of a traditional layout have received maximum development.

Benefits and Prospects


Why is there always a return to the issue of providing electric movement for ground combat vehicles, despite the large number of closed pilot projects?

On the one hand, there is a development of technologies, the use of which in electric propulsion systems allows counting on obtaining positive results, previously unattainable. Permanent magnet motors and asynchronous motors, high-efficiency electric current generators, energy distribution systems, batteries for fast charging and much more are being developed.


High-performance electric motor of the American company HELV Motors (Buddha Energy Inc.)

Recently, it has been a question not only of ground-based vehicles with electric propulsion, but also of the creation of all-electric aircraft up to fairly large passenger models.


Siemens electric motor weighing a little over 50 kg, 260 kW, designed for light aviation

On the other hand, the advantages that electric propulsion of ground-based military equipment can provide are more and more popular:
- the possibility of a flexible layout of the combat vehicle due to the lack of electric transmission units with a rigid mechanical connection provided by the shafts;
- increased survivability of military equipment due to the possibility of redundancy of electric transmission components;
- the possibility of abandoning fire hazardous hydraulic drives in favor of electric ones;
- the possibility of movement of military equipment on limited sections of the track in the mode of maximum camouflage, with minimal unmasking by sound and thermal signs;
- the possibility of energy recovery during braking;
- the best dynamic characteristics and permeability parameters of armored vehicles equipped with electric transmission;
- greater ease of control of armored vehicles with electric propulsion;
- the ability to provide a sufficient amount of electricity to an ever-increasing amount of equipment, sensors, advanced weapons.

Let's consider these advantages in more detail. The main source of energy - diesel or gas turbine, in machines with electric transmission will have a longer resource and economy due to the fact that initially the optimal engine speed can be chosen at which it will have minimal wear and maximum fuel efficiency. Increased loads during acceleration and vigorous maneuvering will be compensated by buffer batteries.

For example, in combination with a generator, a high-speed gas turbine can be installed, which will operate in the “on / off” mode to recharge the buffer batteries, without changing the speed.

In electric transmission there is no need to install bulky shafts and gearboxes. The mechanical connection in the electric transmission is available only in pairs of the engine-electric generator and electric motor-wheel, but these blocks can be made in the form of a single unit. The remaining units are connected by flexible cables.


Electric Transmission Layout Options

Unlike mechanical connections, electrical connections can be repeatedly redundant. For example, at the stage of housing assembly, protected cable channels can be laid in which a universal power and data bus will be placed, including power and data cables.


Cable channels can be placed in armored casings around the perimeter of the inside of the case, which will provide multiple backups of power and data transmission

Spatial separation of energy sources, supply and communication channels, as well as engines and propulsion systems with an increased probability will allow the combat vehicle to maintain mobility and situational awareness when damage is received, which will make it possible to withdraw the combat vehicle from the firing zone and evacuation from the battlefield.


Ground armored vehicles with electric transmission will have high survivability in case of damage from one or more angles

The abandonment of hydraulic actuators in favor of electric ones will also help to increase the survivability of ground combat vehicles, both because of the lower fire hazard of the latter and because of their greater reliability. The Russian Air Force plans to abandon hydraulic drives on the fifth-generation fighter Su-57 by 2022.

The presence of buffer batteries allows you to maintain mobility without turning on the main engine, albeit on a fairly limited distance. This will allow promising combat vehicles to implement new tactical scenarios for conducting combat operations from an ambush when the armored vehicle is in standby mode in standby mode, while its thermal signature will be comparable to the ambient temperature.


The heating of the power plant greatly unmasks the armored vehicles in the thermal range

Rechargeable batteries will also provide the ability to move in case of failure of the main power plant, which will allow armored vehicles to leave the battlefield on their own. In some cases, to evacuate a combat vehicle with electric transmission, it will be enough just to connect it to an external energy source. For example, an armored repair and recovery vehicle in this way can simultaneously evacuate two other armored vehicles with partially damaged electrical transmissions, simply by transferring power cables to them.

As in civilian electric vehicles, in armored vehicles with electric transmission, energy can be recovered during braking.

Ground combat vehicles with electric transmissions will have better mobility and controllability characteristics due to the stepless transmission of power to the propulsion devices, as well as the flexible distribution of power between the left and right side electric motors. For example, during a U-turn, a decrease in power on the lagging side motor will be compensated by an increase in the power of the outboard motor.

One of the most important benefits of electric transmission will be the ability to provide power equipment and sensors, for example, radar stations (radar) reconnaissance, guidance and all-round defense complex active defense.


Radar with active phased array antenna (AFAR) on the turret of the T-14 tank platform Armata

In the near future, an integral part of ground combat vehicles will become laser weapon, which will be able to largely level the threat from small unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), anti-tank guided missiles and cluster-based striking elements with thermal and optical homing heads.


Stryker MEHEL combat laser system designed to destroy small UAVs

Electricity may be required for active camouflage systems of armored vehicles in the thermal and optical wavelength ranges.


Promising armored vehicles can be equipped with active camouflage in the thermal and optical wavelength ranges

conclusions


The creation of ground-based combat vehicles with electric propulsion is likely to become inevitable as technology improves and requirements for the energy supply of airborne equipment and weapons increase. The civilian market of electric vehicles can have a significant impact on the pace of implementation of ground-based combat vehicles with electric propulsion.

Promising ground-based combat vehicles with electric transmissions will surpass the "classic" models in terms of dynamism, maneuverability, ease of control, survivability and security, as well as the possibility of placing promising weapons and sensors with high energy consumption on them.
Author:
Photos used:
popmech.ru, belaz.by, tesla.com, topwar.ru, btvt.narod.ru, naukatehnika.com, nti-aeronet.ru
Articles from this series:
Fire support tanks, BMPT "Terminator" and the cycle of OODA John Boyd
Armored vehicles against infantry. Who is faster: a tank or infantry?
Increased situational awareness of armored combat vehicle crews
Ergonomics of workplaces and combat algorithms for promising armored vehicles
Unmanned systems for advanced armored vehicles
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  1. Gato
    Gato 10 June 2020 18: 11 New
    +5
    Nothing will happen as long as the specific power of electric propulsion systems (together with power sources, of course) is less than that of ICE
    1. _Sergei_
      _Sergei_ 10 June 2020 18: 28 New
      +4
      Another plus is the weight of the electric motors. If you take the power diesel generator set, then the weight will not be small.
      1. Gato
        Gato 10 June 2020 18: 34 New
        +1
        Well, in a diesel generator set, electric motors, roughly speaking, replace the gearbox, since their power is not so dependent on rpm. I was referring to the "pure" EDU - power source -> electric motor.
        1. _Sergei_
          _Sergei_ 10 June 2020 18: 36 New
          0
          If we take the weight of the generator and electric motors, then the box will be several times lighter.
          1. Gato
            Gato 10 June 2020 18: 52 New
            0
            So am I about the same.
      2. ProkletyiPirat
        ProkletyiPirat 10 June 2020 19: 16 New
        0
        Quote: _Sergey_
        Another plus is the weight of the electric motors. If you take the power diesel generator set, then the weight will not be small.

        Since the time of the invention of power electronics (semiconductor electrics), this has not been relevant, google the topic "pulsating electric generators and motion systems based on them."

        In my opinion, the main advantage of BBM electrification is in additional functionality and, as a result, a change in the organizational structure of units where the benefits are obtained. For example, a change in the internal layout of an armored personnel carrier / infantry fighting vehicle, an increase in the landing by 1,7-2,2 times, and therefore organizational changes in the unit. Or for example, the creation of a hybrid tank and infantry fighting vehicles and as a result, staff changes.
        1. Gato
          Gato 10 June 2020 19: 25 New
          0
          e.g. creating a hybrid tank and infantry fighting vehicle

          Well, they created "Merkava" - it did not entail any fundamental organizational changes
          1. ProkletyiPirat
            ProkletyiPirat 10 June 2020 19: 32 New
            0
            Quote: Gato
            e.g. creating a hybrid tank and infantry fighting vehicle

            Well, they created "Merkava" - it did not entail any fundamental organizational changes

            Because the merkava is a tank, not a voiced hybrid, for simplicity imagine a T14 armature which has a 3h crew ahead, a gun and ammunition in the center, and a landing party instead of an engine, the engine itself is spaced apart and is an element of booking (protection of more important units is less important). Well, or imagine our BMP-3 with melon, but with a doubled landing. In both cases, the car is more expensive but the machines need less and the benefit comes from a change in the staff structure.
            1. Gato
              Gato 10 June 2020 19: 46 New
              +4
              a car is more expensive but less cars are needed and the benefit comes from a change in the staff structure

              A controversial statement. In tactical terms, less and better is not always .. better. For example, on a 6 km front, it is better to have 3 conventional BMPs than one super BMP
              1. ProkletyiPirat
                ProkletyiPirat 10 June 2020 19: 57 New
                0
                SW The namesake, you not only look at my post, not only read it, but also turn on the brain, please ....
                You certainly wrote the truth about the "super BMP", but this is just the same truth because of the difference in the number of troops. That is, chewing: a super BMP is worse than three conventional BMPs because it carries three times less troops. That is, chewing_2: the price of a super BMP is higher and the transported assault force is the same as that of a conventional BMP, therefore the efficiency is lower, and in the hybrid BMP I described, both the cost and the assault force are greater because it is more effective (that's just the efficiency at the organizational level and not the level of a separate BMP).
      3. dgonni
        dgonni 11 June 2020 11: 17 New
        +5
        Oh well. The article also gives an example of an electric shift engine! 50kg of net weight, 350 horsepower. Given the moment characteristics of electric motors, two of these motors with a reduction gear will be lighter in weight than one T-72 final drive gearbox. And given the greater efficiency, there will be real 700 horses on the goose.
        So all lamentations that never, but not vzhisszn, etc. This is from a story with a slate. Yes, we never in the near future. Although if you look, then all the components for the creation are available. From compact gas turbines to the production of electric motors. It’s worse with batteries, but the road will be overpowered
    2. Zeev zeev
      Zeev zeev 10 June 2020 18: 35 New
      +2
      The main limitation for electric vehicles is not a small specific power, but a low power reserve. Already there are electric SUVs, and electric buses, and simple electric cars, moreover, at very reasonable prices on the roads, more and more
      1. Gato
        Gato 10 June 2020 18: 38 New
        +3
        Quote: ZeevZeev
        low power reserve

        Yes, I agree. Low energy consumption of the IP, plus their serious weight, which you have to carry with you. Conventional fuel is consumed, weight is reduced, but EDU is not.
        1. Zeev zeev
          Zeev zeev 10 June 2020 19: 04 New
          -3
          The volume and weight of ordinary fuel, that the batteries are not so big.
          1. ProkletyiPirat
            ProkletyiPirat 10 June 2020 19: 26 New
            +1
            That's right, small, because what you described is not called "specific power" but "energy storage density per unit mass-size" where hydrocarbons have an order of magnitude more energy.
      2. Revolver
        Revolver 11 June 2020 19: 11 New
        +1
        Quote: ZeevZeev
        The main limitation for electric vehicles is not a small specific power, but a low power reserve.

        Plus charging problems compared to refueling. It takes a few minutes to transfer a couple of hundred liters from the tank to the tanks. Pumping an electric charge of comparable energy into batteries is an order of magnitude more.
        If necessary, solarium or gasoline can be poured from cans, and if it is completely free (like a pump is dead), then it can be scooped from a tank or barrel. And charge the batteries with a current source of the necessary power and stiffness. At gas stations or an airfield, this is organized, but in the field it’s not very much. And the wires of the required power to stretch into the field are somehow not done at once, and the mobile generator will burn ... what? That's right, the fuel. Yes, and lubrication is also made from oil, so neither the Russian Federation nor Saudi’s economic collapse due to the complete abandonment of the use of oil, which has been talked about for so long Bolsheviks "green", threatens not soon.
        And further. Tanks can be dispersed, fuel can be poured into underground storage facilities, which you can find, make supplies in case of war, even a nuclear one. And electricity just like that underground "in reserve" is not pumped. Batteries, you say? Estimate the price of batteries, add the price of regular maintenance, what do we have left over? No military budget, not even the American one, will suffice. And stationary power plants, and so everyone knows where they are, and to knock out a power plant, one Ax or Caliber is enough.
        So, even when electric planes will actually fly, armored vehicles will still burn solarium.
        1. ifdru74
          ifdru74 3 July 2020 17: 44 New
          0
          Low energy storage density in the battery, inevitable (thanks to pseudoscience physics and its worst part - thermodynamics) losses on the conversion of chemical energy of fuel into electricity, which are even, horror, in catalytic fuel cells, not to mention ICE. Huge current to start the inverter motor to rotate the stopped shaft with the load. But there is still warming up the windings of the electric motor, which is much more difficult to eliminate than heating ICE! All this makes electric tanks terribly disadvantageous. Not to mention the fact that gasoline / solarium can be stored longer than modern batteries. Well, the credit cars will run on gasoline for a long time (there isn’t enough diesel fuel for everyone, thanks to pseudoscience of chemistry, especially petrochemicals) or wretched (see the case of driving uphill to Tesla). From the point of view of credit control, this is, of course, a boon to lenders.
    3. credo
      credo 10 June 2020 18: 55 New
      +2
      Quote: Gato
      Nothing will happen as long as the specific power of electric propulsion systems (together with power sources, of course) is less than that of ICE

      The article lacks completeness - the advantages are listed and even revealed, and the disadvantages are randomly omitted.
      World practice shows that it is not yet possible to transfer everyone to electric transport by good intentions alone due to its high cost and underdevelopment of many significant points. It’s like with green energy, it’s kind of environmentally friendly and promising, but expensive and not economical, so the old proven energy sources still hold the palm of primacy in terms of low cost and output.
      1. Gato
        Gato 10 June 2020 19: 34 New
        +1
        World practice shows that it is not yet possible to transfer everyone to electric transport by good intentions alone due to its high cost and underdevelopment of many significant points

        Why is this not working? Metro, trams, trolleybuses .. Personal transport - yes, everything rests on the underdeveloped infrastructure. An interesting point: in my Kiev I observe a tendency to eliminate public electric transport and replace it with minibuses - but this is understandable, it’s easier for goats from the city hall to get a gesheft.
        1. Operator
          Operator 10 June 2020 19: 45 New
          +6
          For several years now, Moscow has been undergoing an intensive process of replacing trolley buses with electric buses with Novosibirsk lithium batteries. The epidemic was tasked with transferring all wheeled vehicles belonging to the mayor's office to electric traction, as well as developing a network of gas stations at the expense of the city budget and allowing all electric vehicles, including private ones (in the form of a bonus), to travel along the allocated traffic lanes.

          Now, after the restoration of revenue to the city budget, this project will obviously continue, since it immediately kills four birds with one stone - it reduces air pollution, reduces the operating costs of vehicles, expands the market for domestic lithium batteries and reduces their cost.
        2. credo
          credo 10 June 2020 19: 59 New
          +3
          Quote: Gato
          World practice shows that it is not yet possible to transfer everyone to electric transport by good intentions alone due to its high cost and underdevelopment of many significant points

          Why is this not working? Metro, trams, trolleybuses .. Personal transport - yes, everything rests on the underdeveloped infrastructure. An interesting point: in my Kiev I observe a tendency to eliminate public electric transport and replace it with minibuses - but this is understandable, it’s easier for goats from the city hall to get a gesheft.

          Didn’t you catch the essence of the article? We are talking specifically about such a transport or military product, which will have a stationary electric motor, which has a lot of positive positions compared to existing vehicles that operate on internal combustion engines. And the fact that you cited as an example, forgetting to add short-distance and long-distance trains, is a bit from another opera and their power source is not in themselves, but next to them - above or below them. The wire broke or the power disappeared and this transport got up.
          As for the fact that public electric transport is being eliminated in Kiev, this sad trend can be seen throughout the territory of the former USSR, including Russia (Moscow and St. Petersburg do not count), because the existence of such transport requires large investments in construction and maintenance, and profit ostensibly does not cover expenses, therefore, local authorities, not burdened with any obligations to the population, cut wires and rails under public electric transport, bringing their own or close offices with ICE cars to the market for transport services.
          Capitalism has arrived. So that he was empty.
      2. Shopping Mall
        11 June 2020 14: 55 New
        +1
        Quote: credo
        Quote: Gato
        Nothing will happen as long as the specific power of electric propulsion systems (together with power sources, of course) is less than that of ICE

        The article lacks completeness - the advantages are listed and even revealed, and the disadvantages are randomly omitted.
        World practice shows that it is not yet possible to transfer everyone to electric transport by good intentions alone due to its high cost and underdevelopment of many significant points. It’s like with green energy, it’s kind of environmentally friendly and promising, but expensive and not economical, so the old proven energy sources still hold the palm of primacy in terms of low cost and output.


        The problem with electric vehicles is that the infrastructure is developed for cars. Implementing electric cars will be easier for those who do not have it (infrastructure).

        I will give an analogy.
        According to some reports, magnetic stripe cards are still more developed in the USA, while more modern and protected ones with a chip have developed in our country. The reason is that all of America would need to change readers. And we had nothing to change.

        So it is with electric cars - you have to replace thousands of gas stations with electric gas stations.
        1. Sanichsan
          Sanichsan 18 June 2020 23: 46 New
          0
          Quote: AVM
          Implementing electric cars will be easier for those who do not have it (infrastructure).

          but this is nonsense.
          adaptation and modernization of existing infrastructure (with rare exceptions) is always cheaper than creating a new one from scratch. especially if there is no experience.
    4. knn54
      knn54 10 June 2020 19: 03 New
      0
      In 1949, the development of the unique "Tesla-tank" T-34-85 "E" began. It was planned that it could fire electric discharges of current (from hundreds to several thousand amperes) at a distance of up to 4500 meters. The only prototype was built by the USSR in 1951 and disassembled in 1955.
      Machine Features:
      - combat weight of 33,8 tons.
      - Crew - 5.
      - Reservation - forehead of the hull, side, feed 45 mm; tower forehead 90 mm, reactor protection 75 mm.
      - Engines: two electric motors powered by a portable reactor (0,7 MW) F-7-P
      1. Gato
        Gato 10 June 2020 19: 05 New
        0
        could shoot electric discharges of current

        belay
        It was probably some kind of railgun?
        1. Simargl
          Simargl 12 June 2020 07: 33 New
          +1
          Quote: Gato
          It was probably some kind of railgun?
          Rather, it’s the fakecomet’s sore imagination.
          fishki.net/1878583-t-34-85-je-tank-tesla.html?sign=213307441359589%2C573949589596212
    5. nks
      nks 12 June 2020 17: 19 New
      0
      And you also take the mass of ICE with body kit, gearbox and fuel system for comparison?
    6. Alexander Samoilov
      Alexander Samoilov 13 June 2020 08: 42 New
      0
      Hybrid armored vehicles already exist. ICE has a high acoustic and terrible thermal signature. In modern high-tech combat, such a technique is just a target. Advanced armies will switch to hybrids and full electric movement in the next 20 years.
      1. Sanichsan
        Sanichsan 18 June 2020 23: 54 New
        0
        Quote: Alexander Samoilov
        ICE has a high acoustic and terrible thermal signature.

        do you think the electric motor is better with this? the crews of the ferdinand burned when trying to go uphill, strongly disagree with you.
        1. Alexander Samoilov
          Alexander Samoilov 19 June 2020 08: 47 New
          +1
          Almost a hundred years have passed since the days of the Ferdinands and a lot has changed.
  2. NF68
    NF68 10 June 2020 18: 19 New
    +3
    In Germany, postal electric cars have been traveling in settlements for more than a year. In the coming years, the same buses will appear. So far, only in settlements. And there it will be seen. The number of chargers for vehicles is growing very quickly.
    1. Grandfather
      Grandfather 10 June 2020 18: 33 New
      +1
      Quote: NF68
      Electric tank:

      and cho, for tanks, too, "chargers" will stand throughout the theater?
      1. Gato
        Gato 10 June 2020 18: 50 New
        +1
        "chargers" will stand throughout the theater

        And besides, even if they stand, how long will it take to recharge the tank?
        1. Zeev zeev
          Zeev zeev 10 June 2020 19: 05 New
          -2
          Is it easier to change the battery?
          1. Gato
            Gato 10 June 2020 19: 15 New
            0
            And to bring a spare battery on what? Also on an electric car?
            1. Zeev zeev
              Zeev zeev 10 June 2020 21: 05 New
              -2
              And what are the shells driving? You can on an electric car, you can on a regular truck.
        2. NF68
          NF68 11 June 2020 17: 33 New
          0
          Quote: Gato
          "chargers" will stand throughout the theater

          And besides, even if they stand, how long will it take to recharge the tank?


          Batteries can be charged not only from the diesel generator of the tank itself.

          http://engine.aviaport.ru/issues/18/page18.html
      2. Ravil_Asnafovich
        Ravil_Asnafovich 10 June 2020 18: 56 New
        0
        Then all the kin will not be.
      3. dog of war
        dog of war 10 June 2020 21: 40 New
        -3
        Well, it’s easier to find a source of electricity than to find / get supplies of diesel fuel, while it’s easier to stretch electric cables than to supply fuel in large quantities.
        1. _Sergei_
          _Sergei_ 11 June 2020 01: 48 New
          0
          Where military operations take place, there is usually no electricity. And it does not appear even after the end of hostilities soon. Example Syria, Libya.
      4. NF68
        NF68 11 June 2020 17: 31 New
        0
        Quote: Dead Day
        Quote: NF68
        Electric tank:

        and cho, for tanks, too, "chargers" will stand throughout the theater?


        The tanks will most likely be equipped with small-sized diesel engines from MTU / earlier this company was called Maybach. The motors will turn the generators, the generated electricity will go to storage devices like MDS, and the electric motors will "row". The weakest link, the transmission, is unnecessary in this case.
    2. Simargl
      Simargl 12 June 2020 08: 55 New
      0
      Quote: NF68
      In Germany ... the same buses will appear.
      You missed something: in Russia trolleybus networks are dying out actively.
      1. NF68
        NF68 12 June 2020 16: 35 New
        -1
        Quote: Simargl
        Quote: NF68
        In Germany ... the same buses will appear.
        You missed something: in Russia trolleybus networks are dying out actively.


        In Russia, trolleybuses run only under suspended wires, and in Germany electric buses will not need to be wired and can freely go along any streets and federal highways and autobahns that are accessible for travel, as well as ICE buses.
        1. Simargl
          Simargl 12 June 2020 19: 31 New
          +2
          Quote: NF68
          In Russia, trolleybuses run only under specially suspended wires
          Believe it or not, all trolleybuses, in all countries, "run" under a contact network.

          Quote: NF68
          and in Germany electric buses will not need wiring
          But in Russia already the trolleybus network is dying, because It’s cheaper to operate electric buses than to maintain and upgrade a trolleybus network. This is already about 15 years. In Russia. In Russia, practically no new trolleybus networks appear and existing ones are reduced. You missed the progress in Russia tongue
          1. NF68
            NF68 14 June 2020 17: 00 New
            0
            Quote: Simargl
            Believe it or not, all trolleybuses, in all countries, "run" under a contact network.


            I believe. That's the advantage of buses with electric motors that they have this contact network, that the rabbit has a brake or a fifth wheel cart.

            But in Russia the trolleybus network is already dying, because it’s cheaper to operate electric buses than to maintain and upgrade a trolleybus network. This is already about 15 years. In Russia. In Russia, practically no new trolleybus networks appear and existing ones are reduced. You missed the progress in Russia


            It must be assumed that this is happening not only in Russia.
            1. Simargl
              Simargl 16 June 2020 17: 53 New
              0
              Quote: NF68
              It must be assumed that this is happening not only in Russia.
              You just say
              Quote: NF68
              In Germany, in ... appearing in the coming yearstsya the same buses.
              And they are already. And even, strangely enough, in Russia.
        2. Xwazilb
          Xwazilb 25 June 2020 20: 44 New
          0
          I read your message, and in confusion, double-checked the date the post was written. I don’t know where you are from, but electric buses run in countries less developed than Germany.
  3. Klingon
    Klingon 10 June 2020 18: 21 New
    +2
    what is "Mous" mouse? who is this Mickey Mose ?? There was no such tank, but there was a Maus (mouse) as many as 3 (!) pieces! wassat
  4. Zeev zeev
    Zeev zeev 10 June 2020 18: 25 New
    0
    I think that in spite of all the advantages of electric motors, at first the armored vehicles will be made according to the hybrid scheme. That is, electric motors in the road wheels and / or steering wheels will be added to the standard ICE with the transfer of energy to the drive wheels (similar to the way that in hybrid vehicles the engine works on the front wheels, and the electric motors on the rear wheels and vice versa), which will allow you to enter a low-noise running mode, reduce consumption fuel and increase engine efficiency. Fully electric tanks with current lithium batteries are unlikely. In addition, most likely the first electric motors (in any configuration, hybrid or fully electric) will receive BRM, BTR and BMP. Exclusively due to its lower weight.
    1. Gato
      Gato 10 June 2020 18: 57 New
      0
      current lithium batteries

      Well, research is being done on other sources, such as hydrogen elements. Although there is an opinion that they are in every way inhibited by the oil lobby wassat
    2. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 10 June 2020 20: 39 New
      +2
      Quote: ZeevZeev
      I think that in spite of all the advantages of electric motors, at first the armored vehicles will be made according to the hybrid scheme.

      I think the more mundane is not a hybrid circuit, but simply an electric transmission (such as on heavy vehicles). The Kamaz electric chassis "Platform-O" for "Topol" and "Yars" have already been adopted for service (https://iz.ru/853688/2019-03-07/elektroshassi-platforma-o-dlia-topolei-i-iarsov-priniaty-na-vooruzhenie).
      Long before that, the BTR-90 variant with electric transmission was tested. It was said that she showed herself well.
  5. Klingon
    Klingon 10 June 2020 18: 29 New
    +3
    Quote: Gato
    Nothing will happen as long as the specific power of electric propulsion systems (together with power sources, of course) is less than that of ICE

    I remember 5 years ago the most advanced amateur drone flew a maximum of 15 minutes. Now even the tiny Mavik Mini has been flying for half an hour on one battery (Mavik Air2 - 34 minutes) - so I wouldn’t be so categorical in your place))
    1. Gato
      Gato 10 June 2020 18: 41 New
      0
      And I'm not categorical - I wrote "bye"
    2. Lopatov
      Lopatov 10 June 2020 19: 00 New
      +8
      Quote: Klingon
      so I would not be so categorical in your place))

      The energy intensity of the solarium will still be very, very long orders of magnitude higher than that of the battery.
      Therefore, it is quite possible to be categorical.

      But the electro-mechanical transmission instead of pure mechanics is a very realistic prospect.
      Especially when you consider that modern BM require more and more electricity.
      1. Gato
        Gato 10 June 2020 19: 10 New
        -2
        Especially when you consider that modern BM require more and more electricity

        What for? Unless, of course, put radars, em-guns or lasers on them
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 10 June 2020 19: 28 New
          +9
          Quote: Gato
          But why?

          They say that the Armed Forces already needed the Abramsam in order to maintain the normal rotation speed of the tower ...
          First, the protection system will "eat" more and more. Sensors, electronics, electromagnetic trawl, in the future something like electrodynamic protection ...
          Secondly, Sensors reconnaissance and aiming systems are more and more, energy consumption is all higher
          Thirdly, electrothermochemical tools. Able to make the charge much safer, and the initial speed is higher.
          Fourth, the connection and the elements of the ASUV.

          I am sure that very soon the tank will not be able to do without a powerful generator and no less powerful APU. And it remains to take one small step, to abandon the mechanics.
          1. Gato
            Gato 10 June 2020 19: 56 New
            0
            And it remains to take one small step - abandon the mechanics

            Maybe. Only it seems to me that such a tank will look like a steamer with a big beep - either buzz or sail. For a tank - either drive or shoot and defend, as well as power the air conditioning, microwave and coffee maker request
          2. Proctologist
            Proctologist 10 June 2020 20: 02 New
            +2
            moreover, all this way, it seems to me inevitable - a matter of time. Generators can be optional, mounted externally, unarmored - as there should be enough batteries for the duration of the battle. Generators can be on different energy sources, different dimensions (and power), etc. Versatility is high - the ability to power batteries of various devices, from walkie-talkies to tanks. Reliability and survivability of electric motors is a huge plus for military applications. Nothing prevents putting a 2-4 engine on the tank instead of the only one, duplicating power cables. Moreover, it even looks more rational engineering.
          3. Simargl
            Simargl 12 June 2020 07: 41 New
            +1
            Quote: Spade
            They say that the Armed Forces already needed the Abramsam in order to maintain the normal rotation speed of the tower ...
            In standby mode, it has been needed for 40 years: aiming systems, surveillance, communications, air conditioning, ventilation, etc. - they eat a lot, there’s not enough battery for a long time, and the big engine is redundant.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 12 June 2020 08: 50 New
              0
              Quote: Simargl
              In standby mode, she has been needed for 40 years

              As far as I heard, the APU is needed even with the main power plant running. It seems that in the modernization option for the ILC, this crawled out
              1. Simargl
                Simargl 12 June 2020 08: 54 New
                0
                Quote: Spade
                As far as I heard, the APU is needed even with the main power plant running.
                It is quite possible and reasonable: they decided not to hang two 50-kilowatt generators (on the main and APU), but only on the APU.
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 12 June 2020 09: 01 New
                  0
                  Quote: Simargl
                  It is possible and reasonable

                  There is at least one case of tank loss due to automatic gun fire - a mug from the infantry in the convoy accidentally shoots, a shell getting into the APU at the rear of the tower, a fire, a frightened crew left the car, the fire system did not work.
                  1. Bad_gr
                    Bad_gr 12 June 2020 10: 55 New
                    0
                    Quote: Spade
                    APU in the stern of the tower

                    On Abrams, this APU is worn with a written shell. They already had three options for its placement.


                    On the aft sheet, on the tower, on the left nadgusinny shelf. In the end, he was abandoned in favor of an additional 2 batteries (in addition to the 2 regular ones). Now, as I understand it, this topic is again being procrastinated.
                    1. Simargl
                      Simargl 12 June 2020 19: 56 New
                      0
                      Quote: Bad_gr
                      refused in favor of additional 2 batteries
                      2x250x12 = 6kW * h. Kislenko. Will not take out for a long time. Yes, and take a long time to charge.
      2. chenia
        chenia 11 June 2020 09: 09 New
        +1
        Quote: Spade
        But the electro-mechanical transmission instead of pure mechanics


        Probably not for the tank. But already for an armored personnel carrier is possible. Diesel generator and motor wheel, better than + gearbox, handout and a bunch of shafts
  6. lubesky
    lubesky 10 June 2020 18: 31 New
    +4
    But I liked the article, you need to think bolder about the impossible and fundamentally new. Moreover, it seems that the internal combustion engine and its structure (weight + dimensions = specific power) have reached or are close to the limits of the possible. It is also important to understand that the robotics of the future will be clearly connected with ELECTRICAL power, and not with ICE.
  7. Doliva63
    Doliva63 10 June 2020 18: 36 New
    0
    I remember, it seems, one of the options for the Tigers among the fascists was also this - ICE, generator and electric motors on the rinks.
    1. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 10 June 2020 20: 47 New
      +3
      Quote: Doliva63
      I remember, it seems, one of the options for the Tigers among the fascists was also this - ICE, generator and electric motors on the rinks.

      This option was mentioned in the article (the platform from Porsche, went to the Ferdinants, one of the minuses is the lack of copper in that period)
      1. Doliva63
        Doliva63 11 June 2020 19: 17 New
        +1
        Quote: Bad_gr
        Quote: Doliva63
        I remember, it seems, one of the options for the Tigers among the fascists was also this - ICE, generator and electric motors on the rinks.

        This option was mentioned in the article (the platform from Porsche, went to the Ferdinants, one of the minuses is the lack of copper in that period)

        Oops, I missed it. thank hi
  8. Ravil_Asnafovich
    Ravil_Asnafovich 10 June 2020 18: 52 New
    0
    I can’t say anything about electrical armored vehicles, but once I saw a DET 250 tractor, I asked my father what kind of tractor it was, then he told me everything, both about BelAZ and about DET 250.
  9. Operator
    Operator 10 June 2020 18: 56 New
    0
    In the photo of the armored vehicles in the infrared range, it is clearly seen that the chassis (which heats up due to friction during movement) is the most powerful source of thermal radiation, so replacing a heat engine with an electric one with a battery will not work in terms of reducing visibility.

    It makes sense only a gas turbine engine with a high-speed direct-drive electric generator in combination with high-speed electric motors with planetary gearboxes, which will reduce the weight of the power plant compared to a diesel engine and hydromechanical gearbox (plus electric movement from the battery over a short distance to ensure acoustic secrecy).
    1. Gato
      Gato 10 June 2020 19: 02 New
      +2
      the most powerful source of thermal radiation is the undercarriage (which is heated by friction during movement)

      There is also a rather hot exhaust. In the case of gas turbine engines, it will also be rather big
      1. Operator
        Operator 10 June 2020 19: 08 New
        +1
        That's right - but I wrote only about acoustic stealth during movement, even on batteries.

        The gas turbine engine exhaust, as well as the diesel exhaust and the heat of the air cooling it, are also infrared unmasking signs, but they can be redirected vertically upwards for the tank not being visible in the horizontal plane - this is already a plus in the case of a collision using only artillery and persistently flying ATGMs without UAVs.
        1. agond
          agond 10 June 2020 19: 16 New
          0
          Quote: Operator
          In the photo of the armored vehicles in the infrared range, it is clearly seen that the chassis (which heats up due to friction during movement) is the most powerful source of thermal radiation, so replacing a heat engine with an electric one with a battery will not work in terms of reducing visibility.

          If the electric motors are placed in the rollers, then the heating in the chassis will decrease, and this will free up space inside the tank
          1. Operator
            Operator 10 June 2020 19: 25 New
            +1
            The rollers are the supporting elements of the caterpillar mover, the driving elements are the wheels - the stern pair, which receives rotation from the transmission and which engages with the tracks of the caterpillar. The volume of the wheels is too small (even taking into account the use of the frontal pair of passive wheels - sloths) to accommodate electric motors and planetary gearboxes.

            A gas turbine power plant, including a gas turbine engine with a built-in generator and a pair of electric motors with built-in gearboxes, takes up less space in the engine compartment than a diesel engine with a cooling system and hydromechanical gearbox.
          2. Lopatov
            Lopatov 10 June 2020 19: 29 New
            +2
            Quote: agond
            If electric motors are placed in rollers

            That they will be too vulnerable, which is unacceptable.
        2. Shopping Mall
          11 June 2020 14: 41 New
          0
          Quote: Operator
          That's right - but I wrote only about acoustic stealth during movement, even on batteries.

          The gas turbine engine exhaust, as well as the diesel exhaust and the heat of the air cooling it, are also infrared unmasking signs, but they can be redirected vertically upwards for the tank not being visible in the horizontal plane - this is already a plus in the case of a collision using only artillery and persistently flying ATGMs without UAVs.


          The presence of a buffer battery will allow you to drive a limited distance - several kilometers, without turning on the gas turbine engine. For example, in the event of a sudden attack from an ambush (from a disguised position). Running does not immediately warm up.

          Another option - in the case of detection of an airborne radar attack ATGM with a heat head (along the flight profile), the automatics simultaneously shoots smoke, turns off the gas turbine engine, injects liquid nitrogen onto the hottest surfaces. In combination, a smoke screen + a change in the thermal signature will give more chances to evade than when the tank spars at a maximum with a red-hot engine.
          1. Operator
            Operator 11 June 2020 20: 22 New
            0
            By and large, the thermal signature of the tank in battle does not matter, since it is exclusively guided by missiles that are easily intercepted by KAZ.

            The thermal signature matters on the march when it serves as a unmasking factor for enemy reconnaissance UAVs. And for the march, the battery capacity will be clearly insufficient.

            The same applies to the tank on duty in an ambush with the engine turned off and powered by the battery - thermal masking will be preserved only for the first shot, after which the heat of the gun’s barrel will give out the tank’s location, the same KAZ will enter the field.

            So a gas turbo-electric installation makes sense only for saving mass compared to a diesel + hydromechanical gearbox.
    2. Simargl
      Simargl 12 June 2020 08: 28 New
      0
      Quote: Operator
      in combination with high-speed electric motors with planetary gears,
      Not compatible with
      Quote: Operator
      to provide acoustic stealth
      He will howl like a "Sapsan" on acceleration.
      1. Operator
        Operator 12 June 2020 12: 28 New
        0
        Tank gas turbine engines whistle and then only because of the absence of an active acoustic sound suppressor in antiphase, planetary gearboxes of traction electric motors of the modern multi-unit train of the metro are quiet "yak ukrainian nich".
        1. Simargl
          Simargl 12 June 2020 19: 32 New
          0
          Quote: Operator
          planetary gears
          The engine itself will howl and whistle.
          1. Operator
            Operator 12 June 2020 19: 37 New
            0
            It is treated with an active silencer.
            1. Simargl
              Simargl 12 June 2020 20: 17 New
              0
              Quote: Operator
              It is treated with an active silencer.
              Electric motor? Nude Nude!
              Tank with a silencer? Interesting.
              1. Operator
                Operator 12 June 2020 20: 24 New
                0
                GTE, of course.

                The only sound source in ED is actually bearings.
                1. Simargl
                  Simargl 12 June 2020 20: 29 New
                  0
                  Quote: Operator
                  The only sound source in ED is actually bearings.
                  Nude Nude! You say this to a person working with electric motors?
                  1 - bearings
                  2 - vibration of the windings,
                  3 - vibration of the rotor,
                  4 - cooling air flows ...
                  Take a drill, lock the shaft and press the button. The bearing will not rotate.

                  Quote: Operator
                  GTE, vestimo
                  When did he appear?
                  Quote: Operator
                  in combination with high-speed electric motors with planetary gears,

                  1. Operator
                    Operator 12 June 2020 21: 05 New
                    0
                    "In combination", obviously.
                    1. Simargl
                      Simargl 12 June 2020 21: 10 New
                      0
                      Quote: Operator
                      "In combination", obviously.
                      I repeat, if you do not understand: I intentionally rejected the mention of ICE / GTE and emphasized the noisiness of the ED and gearboxes. The eccentric cycloidal engagement is almost silent, but for some reason I have not seen it in the products so far.
                      1. Operator
                        Operator 12 June 2020 21: 25 New
                        0
                        Quote: Simargl
                        I intentionally dropped the mention of ICE / GTD and emphasized the noise of the ED and gearboxes

                        No need to throw it off - the noise level of the internal combustion engine / gas turbine engine without silencers is several orders of magnitude higher than the noise level of the ED and planetary gearboxes (high-quality, essno).
  10. Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 10 June 2020 19: 16 New
    +1
    I see a number of problems and skepticism with the theme of electric vehicles and even more so military equipment:
    1) In the modern world, copper is a rather scarce metal, the wide use of electric motors will make it even more scarce, which will not fail to affect the price of electric cars.
    2) Modern batteries are still far from the ideal of safe operation, periodicity of charging and even more so the price, if we are talking about products that meet the first 2 points.
    3) The mass disposal of obsolete batteries is no less a problem for the environment than emissions, as well as an increase in the production of lithium and other materials for batteries.

    With regard to military equipment:
    1) In the case of using an electric motor, the visibility of the machine for the corresponding reconnaissance assets will increase.
    2) In the case of the use of nuclear or EMI weapons in a conflict, there is a risk of greater losses of such equipment than traditional.
    3) I am not an expert, but I have a suspicion that mechanical failure and electromechanical failure are "two big differences" in terms of maintainability and especially repair in the field.
    4) Conversion of military equipment to such engines will require huge accompanying expenses - after all, this equipment will have to be "charged" with something in a minimum of time and a large number of items required for charging ..

    In general, I think that so far this is all too expensive and not too reliable for widespread adoption in military equipment. We will wait for progress on graphene batteries ...
  11. lucul
    lucul 10 June 2020 19: 20 New
    +1
    Everything rests on the current source, as soon as there is a breakthrough in this area - you can forget about ICE engines.
    1. tank-master
      tank-master 10 June 2020 21: 08 New
      0
      Yes .. you are right ... if the internal combustion engine is replaced by a PDM (permanent magnet motor) ... then it will be possible to think something.
      1. Simargl
        Simargl 12 June 2020 08: 32 New
        0
        Quote: tank-master
        Yes .. you are right ... if the internal combustion engine is replaced by a PDM (permanent magnet motor) ... then it will be possible to think something.
        Everyone who thinks that ICE is an analogue of an electric motor in a car are mistaken!
        ICE is an energy source, and in an electric vehicle, the source is batteries, fuel cells, and / or a combination of an ICE generator.
        Electric motors are a transmission, rather.
  12. Undecim
    Undecim 10 June 2020 19: 29 New
    +2
    The creation of ground-based combat vehicles with electric propulsion is likely to become inevitable as technology improves and requirements for the energy supply of airborne equipment and weapons increase.
    Back in October 2017, the Next-Generation Combat Vehicle program started in the United States. For $ 700, SAIC, Lockheed Martin, Moog, GS Engineering, Hodges Transportation and Roush Industries pledged to provide two valid prototypes in 000.
    The program provides for the development of five combat vehicles:
    - combat vehicle (OMFV) to replace the Bradley M2 infantry fighting vehicle;
    - armored multipurpose vehicle (AMPV) to replace the M113 armored personnel carrier;
    - Mobile secure fire support platform (MPF);
    - guided and unmanned robotic combat vehicles (RCV) light, medium and heavy classes;
    - tank (DLP) - replacement of the M1 Abrams tank.
    For all these machines, electric drive options are being worked out.
  13. Free wind
    Free wind 10 June 2020 19: 39 New
    0
    In Australia, mining trucks that emit electricity are exploited. There, a quarry on the mountain, going down from the mountain loaded, the truck generates electricity. and charges the batteries, Enough to climb the hill empty to the place of loading, the batteries are also discharged, since a lot of energy is generated. But the diesel electric circuit, dead end, big losses on all these transformations. Huge quarries are moving away from this scheme. CATs have already stopped releasing similar ones. We switched to hydromechanics.
  14. Klingon
    Klingon 10 June 2020 19: 44 New
    +1
    Quote: NF68
    In Germany, postal electric cars have been traveling in settlements for more than a year. In the coming years, the same buses will appear. So far, only in settlements. And there it will be seen. The number of chargers for vehicles is growing very quickly.

    and every second rides on an e-bike. But not in the sense of just riding around and go shopping for work, on tours, etc.
    1. Simargl
      Simargl 12 June 2020 08: 42 New
      0
      Quote: Klingon
      and every second rides on an e-bike.
      PMSM, the future is for personal A-class cars with batteries, with an easily replaceable battery pack (standardized case for 10-15 kg, or several), purely for urban use. And for intercity and travel - hybrids and type of car rental.
      1. Klingon
        Klingon 12 June 2020 12: 22 New
        0
        not here in Germany it’s easier on the e-bike (or the usual one), nobody has canceled the problem of where to put the car in the city, even though it’s an ordinary electric one. It’s not like in Russia, you can’t drop into the lawn because the fine will fly not for a thousand rubles. and up to 2000 €
        I don’t have a car at all and it’s normal. There is no car, it doesn’t hurt your head, you don’t have to pay insurance, THEN to go through is a complete saving. And who would not say that in the west without a car anywhere, they do not take to work, and so on-all lies!
        1. Simargl
          Simargl 12 June 2020 19: 42 New
          0
          Quote: Klingon
          not here in Germany it’s easier on the e-bike
          3-4 months a year and we can ... just subtract the rainy days ... a couple of weeks ...
          Quote: Klingon
          the fine will fly not a thousand rubles
          5000-10000r.
          Quote: Klingon
          No car, no headache, no insurance
          She hurts me once a year.
          Quote: Klingon
          MOT pass - continuous savings.
          Once a year, on average.
          Quote: Klingon
          who would not say that in the west without a car anywhere, they do not take to work, and so on - it's all LIES!
          Who spoke?
          1. Klingon
            Klingon 12 June 2020 20: 23 New
            0
            Well, about the type of no car no work, I heard a lot, friends at the university almost everyone thought so. But by and large, to be completely honest - I do not like cars and do not like to drive them. although I have rights. Here. and there was never a car.
            I love to ride a bike. (while on the usual)
            By the way, about rainy days, as Icelanders say - there is no bad weather, there are wrong clothes!
            (we have almost the whole winter, it is a long autumn and it can decently pour. and for a long time.)

            but of course the electric car is promoted, even give a type of bonus up to 5000 € if you buy Tesla or any other electric car
          2. vadimtt
            vadimtt 15 June 2020 12: 14 New
            0
            Quote: Simargl
            3-4 months a year and we can

            Hmm, I’ve been going to work for a year (20 km one way) on a bicycle year-round.
            What am I doing wrong? laughing
            1. Simargl
              Simargl 16 June 2020 17: 44 New
              0
              Quote: vadimtt
              What am I doing wrong?
              You are comparing the relatively warm region and our latitude of St. Petersburg wassat
              Well, I’m going to the country house, shopping, and taking my wife to work — I have no desire to ride a bicycle.
              And he expressed his opinion about personal electric cars of dimension a little more than Smart - he expressed.
              1. vadimtt
                vadimtt 17 June 2020 08: 31 New
                0
                Well, Moscow is not particularly warmer than St. Petersburg laughing
                Perhaps less cloudy, but recently this is not a fact.
                But personal electric cars in the dimension of Smart (and maybe a little more) - for megacities this is very good. All other cars are just out of town. All trucks with the lower edge of the cabin glazing more than 1.5m from the ground - there too. Well, the maximum speed is finally limited to philanthropic 50 km / h.
                So, of course, it will, but hardly in our lifetime laughing
                1. Simargl
                  Simargl 17 June 2020 16: 36 New
                  0
                  Quote: vadimtt
                  All trucks with the lower edge of the cabin glazing more than 1.5m from the ground - there too.
                  Everything will fail: sometimes you need to carry a large size.

                  Quote: vadimtt
                  Well, the maximum speed is finally limited to philanthropic 50 km / h.
                  This can be done without draconian measures. Just make "green streets" for this speed and ... 100 will fly lol

                  Quote: vadimtt
                  So, of course, it will, but hardly in our lifetime
                  The average speed in the city is 15 km / h. With proper distribution, you can do it at least tomorrow. Where can I get literate?

                  Quote: vadimtt
                  Well, Moscow is not particularly warmer than St. Petersburg
                  I wrote at latitude Peter. I'm in Surgut, here is a little more continental tongue
                  1. vadimtt
                    vadimtt 18 June 2020 10: 28 New
                    0
                    And, Surgut, this is of course a slightly different alignment. But here in Finland, somehow people all the winter to work, study and go to boutiques in large numbers (and in large numbers), and they will have a warmer winter. Yes, even in Norway, with winter cycling, everything is fine. It’s just that bicycle culture is not vaccinated in our country and the health of the citizens also really doesn’t really need anyone (even the citizens themselves), moreover, they died before - the state cost cheaper laughing
                    1. Simargl
                      Simargl 18 June 2020 20: 35 New
                      0
                      Quote: vadimtt
                      It’s just that bicycle culture isn’t vaccinated in our country, and the health of citizens is also really not necessary for anyone
                      You can still prescribe a bicycle for office plankton, but what about those who work with their hands (or feet)?
                      Now I ride to the cottage (from self-isolation to self-isolation, sometimes through a store), only 15 km from the apartment. On a bicycle is not an option, as it’s disgusting in the weather, for a long time (without taking into account that the legs will be clogged - suppose an athlete), with a small descendant it’s really a disaster. So it turns out that only personal transport (there is a bus, but longer than a bicycle).
                      Quote: vadimtt
                      not only that - before it died - it cost the state cheaper
                      Oh come on! Phil and Morrisrm tried to offer one of the states to remove restrictions on advertising and sales ... one of the states did not agree. Well, no one canceled the recipe for raising the retirement age wassat
                      Quote: vadimtt
                      Finland, however, somehow people spend the whole winter to work, study and go to shops
                      If the store is close - I can go on foot, but buy a little, because small ones are bought in the same place where I buy once or twice a week by car. Those. by car it turns out faster, cheaper, fresher ... and the same thing. Even fruit and vegetable points are 50% (minimum) stocked at about the same place as dimes, intersections, ribbons ...
                      Quote: vadimtt
                      and their winter will be meaner.
                      The Finns, than ours? It is unlikely tongue
  15. seagull
    seagull 10 June 2020 19: 48 New
    +1
    The location of the batteries in the area of ​​the fenders is not entirely clear ... Firstly, this is the area with the highest probability of damage (when the armor is broken and the battery of one of the sides is damaged, half of the full capacity is lost immediately). Secondly, the center of gravity rises and the terrain on the slopes deteriorates ... Well, when shooting such a machine it’s harder to stabilize after a shot.
  16. Klingon
    Klingon 10 June 2020 19: 53 New
    -2
    Quote: Spade
    Quote: Gato
    But why?

    They say that the Armed Forces already needed the Abramsam in order to maintain the normal rotation speed of the tower ...
    First, the protection system will "eat" more and more. Sensors, electronics, electromagnetic trawl, in the future something like electrodynamic protection ...
    Secondly, Sensors reconnaissance and aiming systems are more and more, energy consumption is all higher
    Thirdly, electrothermochemical tools. Able to make the charge much safer, and the initial speed is higher.
    Fourth, the connection and the elements of the ASUV.

    I am sure that very soon the tank will not be able to do without a powerful generator and no less powerful APU. And it remains to take one small step, to abandon the mechanics.

    I can add, arguing by analogy: what kind of fuel do Mars rovers ride on striped? (certainly not in diesel fuel wassat ) and so the same Curiosity has a compact nuclear power plant (well, not quite a direct nuclear "U", but on isotopes) and all engines and all equipment work from this nuclear power plant, including transmitting antennas, cameras and a manipulator with tools. It is quite possible to shove such an installation into a tank.
    1. lubesky
      lubesky 10 June 2020 20: 03 New
      0
      I am not a specialist and not for fun, for the sake of understanding - I understand correctly that now it will be enough to destroy one such tank with nuclear weapons to solve the problem with the entire tank group in the radius?
      1. Klingon
        Klingon 10 June 2020 20: 09 New
        0
        this is an isotope installation, there are several plutonium elements (a package of nuclear batteries in fact) But you don’t think that plutonium or uranium can be blown up anyhow? in order to detonate uranium or plutonium, a spaced critical mass of hydrogen and an initiator charge from a conventional explosive are needed. but just to explode a pack of sound batteries will not work ..
        however, the issue of radioactive contamination remains
    2. Gato
      Gato 10 June 2020 20: 08 New
      +1
      rovers rovers

      Mars rover from YaU on Mars, most likely, no one will be right. And if it does, it’s worse for them. But a tank with YaU that is wrecked or drowned in a swamp is somehow dumb wassat
    3. seagull
      seagull 10 June 2020 20: 09 New
      +1
      Those knocked out a tank and got a little Chernobyl, or Fokusima, in the appendage. ...
    4. Disorder
      Disorder 11 June 2020 00: 42 New
      +3
      The striped rover weighs 899 kg on Earth, about 340 kg on Mars. The T-72 one tower weighs more. This lope of the RITEGs must be shoved into it so that it at least moves wassat
      1. Simargl
        Simargl 12 June 2020 08: 52 New
        0
        Quote: Trouble
        This lope of the RITEGs must be shoved into it so that it at least moves
        ... and no armor needed. Hang RITЭGuy (rather RI-TEG - Radioactive Source-Thermo Electro Generator) outside to shoot at it was scary.
        However, RTGs have such specific power ...
  17. K-50
    K-50 10 June 2020 20: 05 New
    +2
    And in the case of using EM weapons, all this "electrified" equipment will not stand up?
    When they were serving in the SA, they drove on one diesel engine, completely turning off ALL electrical equipment, the high pressure pumps were mechanical, but everything was on "mechanics", no EM pulse would have done anything. It will immediately "die" in a moment, you will be tormented by the short circuit to eliminate. what
    1. Shopping Mall
      11 June 2020 14: 27 New
      0
      Quote: K-50
      And in the case of using EM weapons, all this "electrified" equipment will not stand up?
      When they were serving in the SA, they drove on one diesel engine, completely turning off ALL electrical equipment, the high pressure pumps were mechanical, but everything was on "mechanics", no EM pulse would have done anything. It will immediately "die" in a moment, you will be tormented by the short circuit to eliminate. what


      Nowadays, tanks are full of electronics without electric propulsion. Moreover, the "electric" tank will have more EMP-resistant power electronics.
  18. gridasov
    gridasov 10 June 2020 20: 17 New
    0
    At the modern level, absolutely all electric machines are not effective in order to build prospects on them. The key reason is that induction windings are used in which the parasitic processes of self-induction grow equivalent to an increase in voltage and current in them. We are not talking about permanent magnets at all - they are low potential and not controlled. And so the whole problem comes down to a new induction coil in which the linear and dominant vector is transformed into a rotating magnetic field. Then the design of the electric machine turns into a process of conjugate break-in moments of rotating magnetic fluxes. Therefore, on such coils, the current does not go to heat, but goes to the rotation of the magnetic flux and converts all through break-in moments. Such engines are easily combined on one axis with a generator with a common stator. They can be almost flat. They are easy to combine with the turbine. They do not need high-capacity batteries that perform only the function of initiating the process and do not participate in the conversion of capacities. Such engines operate in any environment without special retraining.
  19. pytar
    pytar 10 June 2020 20: 28 New
    +2
    Many thanks, to the author for interesting material! hi Absolutely adequately and logically indicates the trends in the development of military equipment in the near future. I can subscribe to every line in this article! good
  20. tank-master
    tank-master 10 June 2020 21: 05 New
    +1
    Full amateur article. Draw the fuel tanks in the pictures, place the crew, sights and, most importantly, the turret with the MZ and BK, as well as the gun, as well as the cooling system for the internal combustion engine and head ... and don’t forget to finish the armor protection .... then talk about how to make a tank for electric propulsion ... fade into the background. In the future, it is possible to use HED .. but on the condition that a different type of generator will be used and instead of an internal combustion engine, for example, a DPM (permanent magnet engine) can be used ... such studies in Kharkov were, only the time was not successful, the beginning of the 90s.
    With such a scheme, yes, electric movement is possible .. since neither batteries nor fuel tanks will be needed.
    1. Shopping Mall
      11 June 2020 14: 25 New
      0
      Quote: tank-master
      Full amateur article. Draw the fuel tanks in the pictures, place the crew, sights and, most importantly, the turret with the MZ and BK, as well as the gun, as well as the cooling system for the internal combustion engine and head ... and don’t forget to finish the armor protection .... then talk about how to make a tank for electric propulsion ... fade into the background. In the future, it is possible to use HED .. but on the condition that a different type of generator will be used and instead of an internal combustion engine, for example, a DPM (permanent magnet engine) can be used ... such studies in Kharkov were, only the time was not successful, the beginning of the 90s.
      With such a scheme, yes, electric movement is possible .. since neither batteries nor fuel tanks will be needed.


      These are general schemes, given as an example of layout variability. The same battery compartments can be made comfortably, and be part of the protection. Of course, batteries (for example LiFePo4) or supercapacitors must be fireproof.
      1. tank-master
        tank-master 12 June 2020 11: 47 New
        0
        The purpose of the battery is to serve as a power source, and not be a layer of additional protection.
        framing such schemes only for the sake of electric movement ... this is only a sick imagination and not understanding why a tank is needed. I can tell you one more truth ... starting with the T-80UD (T-80U) and T-90 tanks .... these are already electric tanks ... which, although they have manual drives ... but they can’t fight without electricity can. That’s why .. all over the world T-54-55-62 tanks and their analogues are also valued.
        The general schemes that are proposed in this article .. are inherently utopian, without a compact power supply ... In the long run, yes .. I agree .. what to make a tank with compact HED ... possible, but there will be no power plant yet. ... about the batteries on the tank, as a storehouse of energy reserves, you can forget ... the same Tesla .. when there is damage to the batteries burn .. so beautiful .. that there is nothing to put out.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPqq0v_ORc8
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94EtMhojJuo
        what will happen when a shell hits ... I think you’ll think for yourself.
  21. dog of war
    dog of war 10 June 2020 21: 47 New
    +1
    Given the fact that soon all armored vehicles will have a variety of active protection means, the issue of an on-board power source is becoming more and more acute. It is quite possible that the creation of effective "electric armor" will force the installation of real compact power plants on armored vehicles.
  22. Gust
    Gust 10 June 2020 22: 07 New
    0
    Good idea. But it’s too early to switch to full electric movement, rather a hybrid. Benefits:
    1. An additional moment comes from the TED to the tracks — easier transmission;
    2. The diesel does not stall on switching uphill;
    2. In the transmission, you can do with robotic mechanics, without hydraulics;
    3. More economical power plant;
    4. A battery per 100 kWh weighs only about 500 kg; it is used as an element of passive armor;
    5. The tank can overcome narrow river ford without training on electric traction;
    6. Do not need a powerful APU - consumption peaks are smoothed out by the battery;
    7. Tank systems can be powered by battery in ambush without thermal unmasking;

    much more useful in general ..
    1. Lontus
      Lontus 11 June 2020 09: 52 New
      +4
      Quote: Rafale
      Good idea. But it's too early to switch to full electric movement

      What are you talking about? Where does the article talk about "full electric propulsion" without a fueled power generator?
      Only a serial hybrid with battery buffer is mentioned.
      And such a scheme is optimal for TBT at the current technical level.
  23. Klingon
    Klingon 10 June 2020 23: 02 New
    0
    Quote: K-50
    And in the case of using EM weapons, all this "electrified" equipment will not stand up?
    When they were serving in the SA, they drove on one diesel engine, completely turning off ALL electrical equipment, the high pressure pumps were mechanical, but everything was on "mechanics", no EM pulse would have done anything. It will immediately "die" in a moment, you will be tormented by the short circuit to eliminate. what

    and EMF doesn’t affect the ignition system? in gasoline engines, the candles close somehow and in modern diesel engines the electronic pumps are controlled by the computer, so I don’t know, maybe everything will stall
    1. Shopping Mall
      11 June 2020 14: 22 New
      +1
      Quote: Klingon
      Quote: K-50
      And in the case of using EM weapons, all this "electrified" equipment will not stand up?
      When they were serving in the SA, they drove on one diesel engine, completely turning off ALL electrical equipment, the high pressure pumps were mechanical, but everything was on "mechanics", no EM pulse would have done anything. It will immediately "die" in a moment, you will be tormented by the short circuit to eliminate. what

      and EMF doesn’t affect the ignition system? in gasoline engines, the candles close somehow and in modern diesel engines the electronic pumps are controlled by the computer, so I don’t know, maybe everything will stall


      In modern technology, everything is already so electrified that it makes no sense to talk about its advantage over electric vehicles in terms of EMP. This is not an old Moskvich with a "curve" to start.
  24. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 10 June 2020 23: 31 New
    +5
    Electricity ... Everything ingenious is simple.
    Tesla car diagram. Parts and nodes - with a gulkin nose. Assembly is the simplest.
    1. iouris
      iouris 10 June 2020 23: 41 New
      +2
      Porsche built electric cars at the beginning of the XNUMXth century. I even went on a honeymoon on an electric car. He was a very young man.
      1. Thunderbolt
        Thunderbolt 11 June 2020 00: 24 New
        +1
        Quote: iouris
        Porsche built electric cars at the beginning of the XNUMXth century. I even went on a honeymoon on an electric car. He was a very young man.

        But he finished the travesty and in general, maybe Porsche got stuck, but there is a historical foolishness. This is a wonderful image of a shpshzshshshshshshshshshshhot
    2. Disorder
      Disorder 11 June 2020 00: 23 New
      0
      What about the charging station? It's simple in civilian life - plugged into a power outlet and recharge.
      1. iouris
        iouris 11 June 2020 00: 55 New
        0
        Quote: Trouble
        It's simple in civilian life - plugged into a power outlet and recharge.

        Perhaps you think that the buns on the trees are growing, and the electricity comes from the efforts of Chubais’s will?
    3. tank-master
      tank-master 12 June 2020 11: 49 New
      0
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPqq0v_ORc8
      yes ... progress on the face .. but there is a fly in the ointment
  25. The comment was deleted.
  26. Disorder
    Disorder 11 June 2020 00: 19 New
    0
    To charge the batteries you need fuel. Well, do not pull the cable from the power plant, if there is any where to pull it from. laughing
    So it turns out that it’s easier to pour fuel into the tank and drive than to convert it into electricity first.
    1. iouris
      iouris 11 June 2020 00: 59 New
      0
      It is easier, of course, on electricity. And the efficiency is higher, and the design of the self-propelled cart is simpler, and unification. But there are also unsolved problems. Remember "yo-mobile"!
      1. Disorder
        Disorder 11 June 2020 13: 18 New
        0
        We consider military equipment that is operated in the absence of power plants and power lines.
        1. iouris
          iouris 11 June 2020 13: 22 New
          0
          That's right, but why is it necessary to reject hybrid power plants and an electric drive from the threshold? In some wars, the tank does not live long.
          1. Disorder
            Disorder 11 June 2020 14: 08 New
            0
            The hybrid installation has its own troubles. Here you need to look: does replacing a mechanical transmission give an electric gain in terms of efficiency, mass and price?
            1. Bad_gr
              Bad_gr 11 June 2020 20: 05 New
              0
              Quote: Trouble
              Here you need to look: does replacing a mechanical transmission give an electric gain in terms of efficiency, weight and price?

              In multi-axis systems, it gives a gain in layout, in reliability (since it is simpler), it may lose in efficiency, but this is again how to count: a diesel generator can operate in the most economical mode for a diesel engine, and as a result give a gain in Efficiency too.
      2. tank-master
        tank-master 12 June 2020 11: 51 New
        0
        E-mobile ... the idea was good, but the implementation, as always ... for transport, the idea of ​​a hybrid is very good, just don’t have to transfer it to military equipment.
    2. Klingon
      Klingon 11 June 2020 18: 09 New
      0
      why pull the cable ?, why is everything so complicated, process fuel ... replaceable batteries! - as in a copter, he took out a discharged one, put a new one in it. Of course, I will exaggerate it, for the tank there will be not just any LiPo but fuel cells on hydrogen and so on.
  27. Neutron Retarded
    Neutron Retarded 11 June 2020 01: 21 New
    +1
    There is no doubt that in the foreseeable future, electric cars will practically supplant ICE cars, and not for environmental reasons, but because of the general technical superiority of electric vehicles.

    Author! Such a good article and such stupid, populist statements.
    The total capacity of all cars in the world is 3 (three) times greater than the power of the existing global generation !!! Which was created 130 years! This means that to replace the internal combustion engine with an electric drive for your foreseeable future, you need to triple the generation. At whose expense is the banquet? I will not even say anything about the need for this multiple increase in the burning of hydrocarbons.
    1. Shopping Mall
      11 June 2020 14: 17 New
      0
      Quote: Lagging Neutron
      There is no doubt that in the foreseeable future, electric cars will practically supplant ICE cars, and not for environmental reasons, but because of the general technical superiority of electric vehicles.

      Author! Such a good article and such stupid, populist statements.
      The total capacity of all cars in the world is 3 (three) times greater than the power of the existing global generation !!! Which was created 130 years! This means that to replace the internal combustion engine with an electric drive for your foreseeable future, you need to triple the generation. At whose expense is the banquet? I will not even say anything about the need for this multiple increase in the burning of hydrocarbons.


      Projected growth rates of generation: https://peretok.ru/infographics/699/5407/

      And do not forget - demand creates supply. World generation was created based on market demands. There will be demand - they will build nuclear power plants, and solar panels will appear on each house, the efficiency of which is growing. By the way, roof-solar panels also Musk produces ...

      And why a multiple increase in the burning of hydrocarbons? It’s just that they will be burned at in ICE machines, and at TPPs, which are away from cities, and which are easier to put filter cleaners on than all cars.
  28. Klingon
    Klingon 11 June 2020 01: 51 New
    +1
    Quote: Trouble
    The striped rover weighs 899 kg on Earth, about 340 kg on Mars. The T-72 one tower weighs more. This lope of the RITEGs must be shoved into it so that it at least moves wassat

    uh, I was supposed to use energy from i-elements to power sensors, cameras, all electronic stuffing. Can toss the turret and gun. for the dengel, they probably must be many. ..so you are probably right). in general, it seems like even here the article on VO was about the project of a nuclear tank, so there generally a mini-reactor was / supposed to be put /
  29. sen
    sen 11 June 2020 04: 42 New
    +1
    In the USA, the AET electric tank project was once considered. Weight is about 60 tons. Main armament: 80-mm electromagnetic automatic gun
    https://arsenal-info.ru/b/book/385695129/68
  30. V1er
    V1er 11 June 2020 14: 41 New
    +1
    Sooner or later, but everything will be on electricity. The internal combustion engine has served for a long time, but has already outlived its time. The whole problem is not only in ecology, but also in resources. The time will come when they will end and will be so expensive that they will invent 100500 electric motors and capacious batteries, simply because it will be cheaper. The energy of the sun and the atom is inexhaustible and it is very cheap.
  31. Belimbai
    Belimbai 11 June 2020 14: 48 New
    0
    All this is of course wonderful .... The electric drive is a good thing, but there are still questions of reliability and energy efficiency. Everything should work in difficult conditions ... and as autonomously as possible. Only professionals can repair such things. The situation with the batteries is much worse .... they do not tolerate cold, heavy weight, fire hazard .... and you will not find charging in the forest.
  32. Phoenix
    Phoenix 11 June 2020 16: 31 New
    0
    Very cool, I myself have fantasized more than once on this topic)) Some of the arguments were new to me. I would like to continue from the author where the shortcomings and technical problems would be considered, plus possible solutions. And offhand I see the most important ones:
    The low specific energy consumption of such a bundle, fuel + batteries is larger and heavier than just fuel, while in reality all the energy received is stored only in fuel, approximately the same amount of fuel will be needed to achieve comparable range indicators.
    The inability to quickly and most importantly just charge. A special station will be required, while for ICE a couple of barrels of captured fuel can be brought up. Charging an entire tank column would require something similar to a nuclear power plant on a chassis like for a PGRK. Alternatively, it would be possible to refuel with hydrogen and generate in the fuel cells inside the tank, but hydrogen is terribly explosive and the most important thing is that producing it on an industrial scale is a billion times more harmful to the environment than burning the same oil. Half a century will not pass as a new generation of greenpeace will demand to break such tanks ...
    In short, the author, write a sequel, it turned out cool! good
  33. The comment was deleted.
  34. Pandiurin
    Pandiurin 12 June 2020 17: 09 New
    0
    A car on tracks and with armor on an electric drive is a pretty crazy idea, both in battery and hybrid versions.

    For multi-wheeled all-wheel drive vehicles with medium armor type BMP it is possible, it is necessary to consider in detail, to make a test laboratory on the basis of the existing one.
    Maybe for some applications and certain climatic zones something interesting will turn out.

    Platform O is certainly a larger piece, but it turned out very interesting.