Military Review

They let us very close: the work of calculating the Pantsir-C1 ZRPK against UAVs in Libya is shown

72

In the network appeared footage of the work of calculating ZRPK "Shell-C1" of the Libyan National Army. This is a complex that was previously delivered to Libya from the United Arab Emirates. According to some reports, the instructor from the UAE was also included in the calculation.


The frames show that the “Shell-C1” found a relatively low speed target. This is an unmanned aerial vehicle. ZRPK conducts target tracking. Then comes the launch of an anti-aircraft missile, which hits the target, after which you can hear the joyful exclamations of the calculation of the anti-aircraft missile-gun complex.

With all the success of striking an UAV, questions arise.

The aircraft was hit at the moment when it was at a distance of about 4 km (this can be seen from the information displayed on the monitor of the complex) from the complex. If it was a strike drone, then there was a high risk that he could launch a missile on the Shell, first. It turns out that either the drone was not a strike, or the calculation allowed itself unacceptable risks of waiting for the UAV to arrive at a relatively close distance. TTX complex allows you to hit aerial targets at significantly greater than 4 km distances.

It is possible that it was precisely the attempts to “bring the drones closer” that often led to the fact that the troops of Marshal Khalifa Haftar lost such an effective weapon as ZRPK "Shell-C1".

72 comments
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  1. swnvaleria
    swnvaleria 9 June 2020 09: 20 New
    19
    they’ll graze lamb, organize camel races, sell figs, not aircraft to track and accompany, they’re too complicated a technique for them, but I think they’ll learn quickly, they have such a situation
    1. Vol4ara
      Vol4ara 9 June 2020 09: 28 New
      16
      Is it they who act in combat so? Do you take video clips? And this is against the background of reports of many lost complexes ... Is it either training on training targets or they are fools, even if it’s a scout, nothing will prevent you from covering you with artillery
      1. Slon1978
        Slon1978 9 June 2020 09: 48 New
        13
        Messages about multiple lost complexes? Still, I would not rely on the message, but on the video, as reliable evidence. During the operation of shock drones, video shooting of target destruction, as I understand it, is carried out automatically. I personally saw photos and videos of two different shells struck, one of which was struck in some kind of hangar, where it was possible to park or maintain. The very fact of their destruction is pointless to deny, but judging the quantity is still worth taking into account the propaganda component in the Turks' messages.
        1. Vol4ara
          Vol4ara 9 June 2020 10: 51 New
          -4
          Quote: Slon1978
          Messages about multiple lost complexes? Still, I would not rely on the message, but on the video, as reliable evidence. During the operation of shock drones, video shooting of target destruction, as I understand it, is carried out automatically. I personally saw photos and videos of two different shells struck, one of which was struck in some kind of hangar, where it was possible to park or maintain. The very fact of their destruction is pointless to deny, but judging the quantity is still worth taking into account the propaganda component in the Turks' messages.

          Well, together with the Syrian from the Jews and Turks, + Libyan it is already about 10 pieces so accurately typed
          1. Sergey10789
            Sergey10789 11 June 2020 08: 57 New
            0
            It seems to me 10 units with a rather intensive use of aviation is not such a big figure!)
        2. Alekseev
          Alekseev 9 June 2020 12: 06 New
          +3
          Video proof ...
          But also to some extent. What is struck in this video? Real air defense system or layout? When onl removed, for what purpose was on the network?
          All evidence can only be reliably evaluated by a specialist, and in the aggregate, both video, and audio, etc.
          But what about us?
          The surest thing is the result of hostilities. Dominance in the air is won or not and how it was reflected on the earth.
          If, for example, Erdogan went to Moscow, and not Putin to Istanbul, then Armor and others are wow, they reflect attacks on the Khmeinim base, by the way. And if Havtar came to Egypt for help, then his warriors aren’t smart enough to cope with the PNS reinforced by the Turks, because money and weapons of the OPE and others gave him enough.
          1. Vol4ara
            Vol4ara 10 June 2020 09: 14 New
            -1
            Quote: Alekseev
            If, for example, Erdogan went to Moscow, and not Putin to Istanbul, then Armor and others. Wow

            No, with regard to shells this does not mean anything. Victory can be achieved by filling up the enemy with your corpses and losing dozens of pieces of equipment, and this victory will in no way judge the effectiveness of your infantry and equipment.
            Quote: Alekseev
            All evidence can only be reliably evaluated by a specialist, and in the aggregate, both video, and audio, etc.

            Do you really need special education to become a specialist and to distinguish an inflatable rubber model from a real technique?
        3. Andrey Ostroushko
          Andrey Ostroushko 9 June 2020 13: 18 New
          +2
          The second was destroyed during transportation by trawl.
      2. EnGenius
        EnGenius 9 June 2020 23: 34 New
        +1
        Do you also hear joyful Russian speech on video? What do you want to get from these warriors) They look at this technique as a shaitan machine and use it as an arba.
      3. EvilLion
        EvilLion 11 June 2020 11: 21 New
        0
        "With a" watering can "and a notebook
        And even with a machine gun "
    2. NEXUS
      NEXUS 9 June 2020 11: 00 New
      +2
      Quote: swnvaleria
      they’ll graze lamb, organize camel races, sell figs, not aircraft to track and accompany, they’re too complicated a technique for them, but I think they’ll learn quickly, they have such a situation

      If you give a fool a crystal male reproductive organ, he will either break it or cut it.
    3. Comrade Michael
      Comrade Michael 9 June 2020 16: 39 New
      0
      They have quality advisers.
    4. Black Colonel
      Black Colonel 9 June 2020 22: 49 New
      0
      Nobody canceled natural selection, as in military affairs too.
  2. Fedorov
    Fedorov 9 June 2020 09: 21 New
    +9
    If we already took such risks, then we could still let them in and beat them out of the guns. Why spend expensive ammunition like a rocket |?
    1. swnvaleria
      swnvaleria 9 June 2020 09: 31 New
      +7
      the Most High will give rockets
      1. Threaded screw
        Threaded screw 9 June 2020 09: 47 New
        +2
        the Most High will give rockets
        And the Arabs, and complexes ...
    2. neri73-r
      neri73-r 9 June 2020 09: 55 New
      +1
      It is not so easy to get out of the gun for a small target. Shells go "in the cloud", may not hurt.
    3. loki565
      loki565 9 June 2020 16: 07 New
      0
      It is unclear why they were directed around the ECO when it is possible to visit with radar for 30 km. And here the target was captured for 10km and launched the rocket only at 4.5km. As for the guns, getting on the drone is fantastic.
    4. Victorio
      Victorio 10 June 2020 14: 37 New
      0
      Quote: Fedorov
      If we already took such risks, we could have let a little more lop out of guns. Why spend expensive ammunition like a rocket |?

      ===
      guns - this is the last chance already when there are no missiles of your own or there are a lot of other missiles
  3. steelmaker
    steelmaker 9 June 2020 09: 22 New
    25
    This indicates a lack of qualification of staff. Now the military is doing everything in order not to fall into the air defense defeat zone. This video is proof of the mistake of people, not Russian weapons, destroyed by the "Shell".
  4. V1er
    V1er 9 June 2020 09: 23 New
    +2
    It is possible that it was precisely the attempts to “bring the drones closer” that often led to the fact that the troops of Marshal Khalifa Haftar lost such an effective weapon as the Pantsir-C1 air defense system.

    This explains a lot.
  5. Maximilian37
    Maximilian37 9 June 2020 09: 25 New
    -1
    They gave the monkey a shaitan toy. It can be seen that they do not understand how to use the equipment.
  6. Demagogue
    Demagogue 9 June 2020 09: 26 New
    -23
    I just wrote yesterday that the shell-s1 bairaktar will find only closer than 7 km. Well, I even flattered the shell.
    What kind of nonsense is getting closer? Could bring down, would bring down.
    Those posts bots earnestly minus all night)))
    1. Volodin
      Volodin 9 June 2020 09: 31 New
      13
      Quote: Demagogue
      I just wrote yesterday that the shell-s1 bairaktar will find only closer than 7 km

      Specify from now on: Shell-C1 or its Libyan calculation?

      At a distance "closer than 7 km" it (with a wingspan of 12 m) can already be visually "detected" in the clear Libyan sky ...
      1. Avior
        Avior 9 June 2020 09: 42 New
        -1
        There is a nuance, but what are his wings made of? Is there metal there? If not, but a solid composite, then for the radar they are a problem.
        1. K-612-O
          K-612-O 9 June 2020 09: 56 New
          12
          On the Shell and the OLS stands, and so in Syria they cope with Grad missiles, the size there is smaller. There is no nuance. Yes, and Wasps only with OLS ur shot down. Here it is necessary to make claims to the hands and level of training.
          1. SovAr238A
            SovAr238A 9 June 2020 18: 03 New
            +1
            Quote: K-612-O
            On the Shell and the OLS stands, and so in Syria they cope with Grad missiles, the size there is smaller. There is no nuance. Yes, and Wasps only with OLS ur shot down. Here it is necessary to make claims to the hands and level of training.


            And does OLS have a foreshortening? Automatic?
            Further thought yourself continue? or not?
    2. kjhg
      kjhg 9 June 2020 10: 29 New
      +1
      Quote: Demagogue
      I just wrote yesterday that the shell-s1 bairaktar will find only closer than 7 km. Well, I even flattered the shell.

      There is information that the Emirate’s carapace has a radar of all-round visibility, but there is no illumination and guidance radar. Aiming missiles at the target is carried out using the ECO (Optoelectronic Station), the capabilities of which are sharply reduced in the dark and in adverse weather conditions. Hence the reason for letting targets so close.
      Here are other weaknesses of the Shell-C1.

      Here you can read the whole article http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-558.html
      1. brace
        brace 9 June 2020 11: 09 New
        -2
        It is no secret that military equipment is sold on the side with underestimated parameters.
        Therefore, our needs are knocked down and delivered to partners not always.
        1. loki565
          loki565 9 June 2020 16: 16 New
          +3
          Trim the performance characteristics of the radar and put without a radar are two different things))) The shell, in principle, was developed for the emirates, it is doubtful that they would buy such a trimmed version
          1. Don
            Don 9 June 2020 18: 25 New
            0
            Quote: loki565
            it is doubtful that they would buy such a stripped down version

            However, this is a fact. The first shipments were delivered to the UAE without a backlight radar. If the video was such a complex, then everything is clear. If he was at this complex, then things are bad. This may mean that the surveillance radar sees the target, but the guidance radar cannot aim due to the low visibility of the UAV. It is for such cases that an OLS and a thermal imager are installed on the Shell. But they also have their weaknesses, which is what the Turks and Israelis use.
      2. Vita vko
        Vita vko 9 June 2020 12: 23 New
        +4
        Quote: kjhg
        Read the full article here.

        In the near future, there will not be and will not be an anti-aircraft missile system capable of fulfilling tasks for the entire air defense system! Let me remind you that the air defense system should include radio-electronic and electronic reconnaissance systems, electronic warfare systems, an automated control and communication system, short-range, medium and long-range air defense systems, fighter aircraft with guidance points.
        Ignorance or deliberate silence of the facts and requirements of the real organization of anti-aircraft operations leads to the fact that numerous "experts of" Bandera origin "paid by the United States suck out" flaws "from the finger, and then stupidly retype them.
    3. Dmitriy Vyazmenskiy
      Dmitriy Vyazmenskiy 9 June 2020 13: 00 New
      -1
      It depends on the flight altitude. fool
    4. loki565
      loki565 9 June 2020 16: 10 New
      0
      This is not a radar, but the ECO is mainly guided by surface and ground targets, and even then it captured a small target at a distance of 10 km
  7. rocket757
    rocket757 9 June 2020 09: 29 New
    0
    The aircraft was hit at the moment when it was at a distance of about 4 km

    Well, sho say ... again remember the dilemma "ram - gate"! but how else to evaluate it?
  8. pmkemcity
    pmkemcity 9 June 2020 09: 30 New
    +1
    Quote: V1er
    This explains a lot.

    I think that the “shaitan-arba” worked on the machine.
  9. KVU-NSVD
    KVU-NSVD 9 June 2020 09: 32 New
    0
    Maybe they don’t know how to shoot down with radar, but only with an optical sight? Ps just do not kick much right away ..
    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 9 June 2020 10: 17 New
      +1
      In general, we have to admit that for the "Papuans" of all national "varieties" and regions, "robotic" complexes are extremely necessary! So that the SAM itself: detects, "takes off the parameters", proposes an action, shoots a missile, aims, determines the result, "curls up", goes into hiding ...!
      1. KVU-NSVD
        KVU-NSVD 9 June 2020 10: 23 New
        +5
        Quote: Nikolaevich I
        In general, we have to admit that for the "Papuans" of all national "varieties" and regions, "robotic" complexes are extremely necessary

        Why only for the Papuans? This is a general direction for almost all weapons - to leave a person the right only to a decision .. and then not always ..
        1. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 9 June 2020 13: 01 New
          0
          Well, I meant that Russia could still somehow get out "manually", not relying very much on the "robots" ... but the "Papuans" aren’t! fool
    2. alexmach
      alexmach 9 June 2020 10: 31 New
      +4
      Maybe they don’t know how to shoot down with radar, but only with an optical sight? Ps just do not kick much right away ..

      And in the video, in my opinion, you can see the shooting on the OLS. It’s also interesting to look at the radar, one mark clearly shines there, in its place after the hit, in my opinion, a “light” is visible. At the same time, a few more marks either appear or disappear, or even imitate the rapid approach of something to the complex. Interference?
      1. KVU-NSVD
        KVU-NSVD 9 June 2020 10: 42 New
        +3
        Quote: alexmach
        And in the video, in my opinion, you can see the shooting on the OLS

        On this basis, I wrote the previous comment.
        . Interference?
        It may well be that the Turks have electronic warfare ...
  10. Maximilian37
    Maximilian37 9 June 2020 09: 33 New
    -2
    No matter how it later turned out that they shot down their (friendly fire) drone, the Chinese seem a couple of days ago.
  11. yfast
    yfast 9 June 2020 09: 35 New
    +2
    A good toy for desert warriors. Did they consider the drone number, were afraid to bring down their own?
    In a good way, they should have shouted at 10km.
  12. knn54
    knn54 9 June 2020 09: 35 New
    0
    If only not his own.
  13. north 2
    north 2 9 June 2020 10: 11 New
    +6
    SAM shell is used as it should be done, in Syrian Latakia, Russian troops to guard their facilities. And the effectiveness of the Carapace there is even very encouraging. That is, the Carapace performs such air protection functions that they, as the last link in defense, determined by the designers. And the crews are also adequately trained. After all, it was for such protection that Shells were created for the ground forces. And what functions does the Shell perform in the hands of Libyans and the like, where there is no talk of any sort of layered air defense, no one is destroying BLP camera posts, there is no help from electronic warfare systems, etc. And the teams and crews of those Shells grazed goats yesterday and drove the camels ... Such weapons as the Shells are not the same as a heavy machine gun in the back of a jeep. There should be a system for the use of such weapons, and training in the use of such weapons.
    1. alexmach
      alexmach 9 June 2020 10: 25 New
      -1
      And what functions does the Shell perform in the hands of Libyans and the like?

      Military air defense, what else.
      1. PSih2097
        PSih2097 9 June 2020 11: 55 New
        +4
        Quote: alexmach
        Military air defense, what else.

        not characteristic of it because of too long deployment time (compared to short-range air defense systems / air defense systems). His (shell) business is to stand still, burrowing through the cabin, and not to portray Tunguska / Tor ...
        1. Viktor Sergeev
          Viktor Sergeev 9 June 2020 14: 31 New
          0
          Do not tell me, why then does the Shell have wheels and the ability to shoot on the go, unlike the Thors?
          1. bk0010
            bk0010 9 June 2020 15: 08 New
            0
            Wheels - to change position. He can shoot on the move only on a caterpillar base, the wheeled one can tip over when firing from cannons, there he has special retractable shooting devices (he forgot the name):
          2. loki565
            loki565 9 June 2020 16: 39 New
            0
            Thor may well shoot on the move, the shell when moving on a level road can be rockets, cannons will be a big scatter.

  14. The comment was deleted.
    1. neri73-r
      neri73-r 9 June 2020 11: 09 New
      0
      An interesting proposal, most likely worked out by the designers, apparently does not fit.
    2. PSih2097
      PSih2097 9 June 2020 11: 56 New
      0
      Quote: Hydrogen
      This complex can not protect itself offline?

      Only in conjunction with the CP and nothing else ...
    3. Viktor Sergeev
      Viktor Sergeev 9 June 2020 14: 29 New
      0
      The shell can work in automatic mode (it is difficult to say about the one in Libya), but KAZ can damage its own troops and neighboring unplanned installations. A missile flying into a shell is usually a little slave faster than an ATGM, as a result of which fragments will destroy the Shell radar at a distance of several meters, plus the faster the target the more difficult and more expensive KAZ. In addition, the Shell has guns that are better than KAZ (they hit further, further destroy the target).
      1. Hydrogen
        Hydrogen 9 June 2020 14: 59 New
        0
        And why in general, while the complex is operating, they shy away nearby, ideally, there is nothing for the operators to do there, control should be remotely, it is easy to destroy such a complex, and the crew must learn a long time, so why endanger it.
        1. Viktor Sergeev
          Viktor Sergeev 9 June 2020 19: 48 New
          0
          A man is a man, automation can also fail, not all situations can be hammered into the program.
  15. Tuzik
    Tuzik 9 June 2020 10: 53 New
    +2
    Lepota, car crews can be calculated by the accumulation of cellular in one place.
  16. Dikson
    Dikson 9 June 2020 11: 07 New
    0
    Why did they close the target so close ..? Maybe the "Shell" does not see further? Interference, electronic warfare on the drone?
    1. Viktor Sergeev
      Viktor Sergeev 9 June 2020 14: 25 New
      0
      On a small drone? EW is complicated, expensive, massive enough. The farther the launch, the greater the likelihood of a miss due to the target leaving the affected area, and the Libyans have few missiles, and they understand what they are dealing with, so they are sure to beat.
  17. Pvi1206
    Pvi1206 9 June 2020 11: 22 New
    -1
    winners are not judged ... the calculation was wrong ... then he died ... but you want to live ...
  18. Vlad7600
    Vlad7600 9 June 2020 11: 48 New
    0
    Quote: kjhg
    Quote: Demagogue
    I just wrote yesterday that the shell-s1 bairaktar will find only closer than 7 km. Well, I even flattered the shell.

    There is information that the Emirate’s carapace has a radar of all-round visibility, but there is no illumination and guidance radar. Aiming missiles at the target is carried out using the ECO (Optoelectronic Station), the capabilities of which are sharply reduced in the dark and in adverse weather conditions. Hence the reason for letting targets so close.
    Here are other weaknesses of the Shell-C1.

    Here you can read the whole article http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-558.html

    Yes and no. The carapace is not for the front line and before the battle formations, but for object air defense. For the front line there is military air defense, tunguska, wasp, arrow, torus. Therefore, both the size is larger and the engineering preparation for stationary placement is longer. And yet, yes, I used to read in various sources that there is a simplified and cheaper version of “Shell-C1” for export, which contains only an optoelectronic fire control system. But how it really is, only the developer knows.
  19. Ros 56
    Ros 56 9 June 2020 12: 25 New
    +1
    These Arab crews of the Carapace must be chased as sidor goats until they lose consciousness, so that everything works automatically, then there will be some sense from them.
  20. Klingon
    Klingon 9 June 2020 12: 46 New
    +3
    Before launching a rocket, you must read a prayer. wassat No other way. By the way, we also don’t fly missiles without blessing (not about air defense)
  21. Viktor Sergeev
    Viktor Sergeev 9 June 2020 14: 21 New
    0
    I always said that any technique in the hands of the Arabs is a pile of scrap metal. Well, they can’t fight, therefore, the bits are mercilessly Jews in numerous wars. To justify their clumsiness, they always scolded Soviet (Russian) weapons. Our came and showed how to fight. It was the same with the Koreans.
  22. RAA
    RAA 9 June 2020 19: 46 New
    0
    Or "friendly fire" in their own way.
  23. chingachguc
    chingachguc 9 June 2020 20: 54 New
    +1
    -Shoot, Ivan Vasilievich!
    -Early, Petka. Let’s get closer.
    -Shoot them, shoot!
    -Early Petka, early.
    -And now you can, Ivan Vasilievich?
    -And now it's late, Petyunya ...
  24. Dmitry Leontiev
    Dmitry Leontiev 10 June 2020 06: 20 New
    0
    Why is there a rocket at such distances? It would be much cheaper to use guns. Here are just a quick-fire gun at long distances at accuracy lame by definition. I would conceptually propose to solve this problem by replacing one rapid-firing gun with two to three (or several, depending on the importance of the guarded object) computerized single-fire sniper guns located on more than one machine (so as not to interfere with each other's recoil when shooting and to hit them one hit was impossible). Their computer should simply be able to determine the point at which the target will be based on the parameters of its flight, and accurately release the projectile at this point, having received a command to destroy this target. Such guns can be combined into one system (in terms of target tracking and attack) - so that the operator only needs to indicate the target of this computerized battery, and the computer of each gun fires itself, based on its own tracking and aiming system (which can combine several different systems target tracking: location, optics, thermal imager, laser range finder, etc.).
    1. Redfox3k
      Redfox3k 10 June 2020 15: 22 New
      0
      Something is complicated. 3 complexes in coordination for working with guns? Somehow a rocket is easier from one complex.
      1. Dmitry Leontiev
        Dmitry Leontiev 11 June 2020 13: 53 New
        0
        Missile, of course, is easier. That's just the cost of the rocket can not be compared with the cost of simple kinetic shells, precisely fired for the purpose of an advanced computer fire system. To teach such a system to effectively hit any air targets that appear within reach is cheaper than shooting down each with missiles.
        The downed armor of the downed Shells was the human factor - a slow reaction, unskilled personnel actions. So, it is necessary to exclude the human factor from the process as much as possible so that the automaton does everything. For example, two operating modes: normal and emergency. In a normal system, the system notifies of a target that does not respond to a friend or foe request, and waits for a command to shoot down; in an emergency - it does not expect anything, but immediately it knocks down.
  25. Cottodraton
    Cottodraton 10 June 2020 11: 32 New
    0
    They clearly noticed him for another 12 km, but they pulled him up to 4 km. And it was like breaking guidance ...
    I am not surprised why there are such losses on the shells .... this is not a bad complex, but hands growing out of a task ...
    1. Redfox3k
      Redfox3k 10 June 2020 15: 25 New
      0
      Like the Arabs always. Then Ohr to the whole world: the Ryuish Oryuzhi is a bastard. The Saudis are fighting like American weapons. Not far from the rest have gone. But they do not yell at the whole world that the American guns are bad. Paradox.
  26. remal
    remal 10 June 2020 12: 50 New
    +1

    2C38 "Derivation-Air Defense" - larger caliber and guided missiles ..