US will not show satellite photo of rocket launch on MH17

The United States refused to provide satellite prosecutors in the Netherlands with data on the launch of a rocket that shot down a passenger airliner performing flight MH2014 in 17. Then the plane Boeing-777 "Malaysian Airlines" was shot down by an unknown missile over the territory of Donetsk region.

Representatives of the Dutch court said today that the documents would not be declassified or attached to the case.

In 2014, the Netherlands prosecutor made a request to the US authorities. Amsterdam then asked the Americans to provide images from space, in which you can see the moment of the launch of the rocket that shot down a passenger plane in the Donbass. In response, the United States submitted a memorandum according to which the Dutch national counterterrorism attorney reviewed classified satellite photographs in confidentiality. From the series "We have photos, but we will not show them to you, since they are secret." By and large, this is an amazing precedent for investigating - to declare the presence of evidence without providing them, and at the same time rely on what their court will take as a basis.

And already this year, the Netherlands requested the photographs themselves, but was refused, as the presiding judge informed the participants in the court session.

It is difficult to understand that the secret may be in space images of Ukrainian territory six years ago. The only plausible answer is on the surface: such secrecy is connected with the US’s reluctance to disclose information about the true culprits of the tragedy, and instead blame Russia and the Donbass militia for the death of a passenger liner with civilians on board.

Comments

[Hto tama]

If the states had something that could confirm Russia's guilt, they would have done it a long time ago. Yes, and in general I have the impression that the states have long lost interest in this story

[credo]

Quote: hto tama

If the states had something that could confirm Russia's guilt, they would have done it a long time ago. Yes, and in general I have the impression that the states have long lost interest in this story

Well, don't be so naive. So far, this method of "proof" has never left the United States sideways, so why won't it work now? Firstly, there is the famous Anglo-Saxon - "Hailey Likely", and secondly, the United States can always declare in court, especially in the European one, which is surprisingly selective, that they, the United States, believe that while the culprit (read Russia) has not proven his innocence, he will be considered guilty, period.

[military_cat]

Fred Westerbeck previously directly confirmed that the investigation has satellite images from the United States.

- The JIT report mentions satellite images, which also confirm the shooting of the Buk from the Snezhnoye area. Is it about US satellite imagery? Did you manage to get them?

- Yes, we have them. An employee of my office with access to intelligence labeled “top secret” and “state secret” saw and studied satellite data that the United States has.

It is not yet known whether they will be declassified in court, but the news that the Dutch were supposedly denied access to the pictures is rather dubious.

[credo]

Quote: military_cat

Fred Westerbeck previously directly confirmed that the investigation has satellite images from the United States.

- The JIT report mentions satellite images, which also confirm the shooting of the Buk from the Snezhnoye area. Is it about US satellite imagery? Did you manage to get them?

- Yes, we have them. An employee of my office with access to intelligence labeled “top secret” and “state secret” saw and studied satellite data that the United States has.

It is not yet known whether they will be declassified in court, but the news that the Dutch were supposedly denied access to the pictures is rather dubious.

They were, but lost. Well, that happens.

[Operator]

Like - we don’t have any pictures and never will, but one of my subordinates saw them and he swears by his mother that everything was as the Americans say

[Raven 95]

Gentlemen take the word ...

... And here, ladies and gentlemen, I hit the map!

[Russian jacket]

We need to ask in this case, is he an orphan for an hour?

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: military_cat

- Yes, we have them. An employee of my office with access to intelligence labeled “top secret” and “state secret” saw and studied satellite data that the United States has.

He alone "studied" them?

Quote: military_cat

An employee of my office with access to intelligence classified as “top secret” and

This does not mean at all that he is able to "study the pictures", and where is the guarantee that those "pictures" were slipped into him?

[military_cat]

Where is the guarantee that those "pictures" were slipped into him?

But how can such a guarantee be obtained in principle?

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: military_cat

Where is the guarantee that those "pictures" were slipped into him?

But how can such a guarantee be obtained in principle?

Can. If these pictures will be decrypted by specialists.
You realize that these pictures are not at all like a regular photo.

[Smolin]

It is noted that satellite images, which show the launch of a Buk missile at a Boeing MH17, were shown to the Danish special services. Despite this, the data belonging to the United States will not be declassified and attached to the case. Instead, there will be a memorandum in the case detailing the details of the tragedy.
A representative of the Netherlands prosecutor’s office was shown a photograph and allowed to compare it with the information set out in the memorandum. According to him, everything is described correctly

The United States showed these pictures to special services and the representative of the Netherlands prosecutor's office and their findings will be attached to the case.
These pictures will not be shown only to couch experts.

[Pavel73]

These images should not be shown to sofa experts, but to the whole world. And not only pictures, but also a detailed report on everything that the Americans managed to dig. If not shown, this will be one hundred percent proof that they and / or their Ukrainian jackals are guilty of this disaster.

[Smolin]

"We are probably talking about images from secret US military satellites. The US does not want to share their original data, as this will reveal the technical capabilities of such satellites. Therefore, the Americans shared the data that these satellites have collected through Dutch security officials who personally saw the weekend. information and will be able to confirm their authenticity "
In addition, I think that the Netherlands over the years has collected more than enough evidence to prove the guilt of the accused.

[Pavel73]

I don’t think so. Call it what you will, but this is a hiding evidence. And showing them only for “their own” means a criminal conspiracy.

[SOF]

Quote: Smolin

In addition, I think that the Netherlands over the years has collected more than enough evidence to prove the guilt of the accused.

...... how interesting .... enough collected? ...... and the data on the rocket body will also be shared or have everyone forgotten about the rocket? .....

[Siberian54]

Engine parts with this number from the material evidence were removed. Somewhere in October last year, information from the investigator’s press secretary slipped .. So briefly and without noise ..

[major147]

Quote: Pavel73

Ukrainian jackals are guilty of this disaster.

The Ukrainian authorities did not provide international investigators conducting an investigation into the crash of flight MH17 with primary data from radars. The experts have only secondary information at their disposal, said Dutch prosecutor Theis Berger.

They have it in this day radar did not work! Wow, what a coincidence!

[Pavel73]

Little of. It is a lie that Ukraine has no primary data. They had everything. The Dutch report shows the negotiations between air traffic controllers of Ukrainian Dnepropetrovsk and Russian Rostov-on-Don. Both controllers saw the mark MH17, and both began to fall apart. So both had primary radars, and they worked.

[major147]

Quote: Pavel73

This is a lie

This is clear. If I’m not mistaken (I’m not an expert), then the primary radar data (transmitted by Russia) cannot be processed.

[opus]

Quote: Smolin

These pictures will not be shown only to couch experts.

You see in justice (Netherlands) you do not understand well
Article 121 reads:
Three fair trial guarantees:
-first that the hearings are open.
Secondly, decisions must indicate considerations and the grounds on which they are based.
Thirdly, that any decision should be made in public places.
Any exception to these principles can only be made by formal law;
The bottom line: evidence must be SHOWN and ANYONE WHO WISHES CAN SEE THEM.
One grandmother said no ride
An example where there are a lot of photos, labels and backs: everything personally. I don’t know if they tried vodka.

The Netherlands Court of Appeal confirmed the right of the Russian state-owned company Soyuzplodoimport to use the Stolichnaya brand of vodka, Reuters reports. The court ruled that the Luxembourg-registered company Spirits International (part of the SPI group of Yuri Shefler) should stop selling vodka under the brand of the same name.

In March 2015, a court ordered the SPI group of companies to transfer to Soyuzplodoimport the rights to vodka trademarks Stolichnaya and Moskovskaya in the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg. Brand ownership litigation took about 12 years.

Spirits International changed the labeling of the bottles from Stolichnaya to Stoli, however, the Hague court ruled that the rights of Soyuzplodoimport were violated and introduced a ban on the commercialization of the Stoli brand. In January 2016, the Stolichnaya brand rights case was resumed in the United States.

[Sanichsan]

Quote: opus

You see in justice (Netherlands) you do not understand well
Article 121 states: ...

but then all that is happening in the Netherlands now is, it seems, a farce anticipating the closure of the case without results. when the investigation has evidence of dubious bloggers based on photos and videos from the Internet, some of which have already been exposed as counterfeit, a piece of a rocket that turned out to be Ukrainian and recording conversations that have an extremely indirect relation to events, everything indicates an attempt to hush up and forget. but that, of course, if you are right. we both know that the Hague tribunal for Kosovo dispensed with sentiment about the rule of law and objectivity.

[opus]

Quote: SanichSan

but then all that is happening in the Netherlands now is, it seems, a farce anticipating the closure of the case without results

You judge by the Russian press.
1.Not a booth
2. Victims will not accept the "booth"

Quote: SanichSan

the Hague tribunal for Kosovo dispensed with sentiment about the rule of law and objectivity.

There is something else.
The ICTY was established by resolution of the UN Security Council.
There is no Dutch law in force

[Sanichsan]

Quote: opus

You judge by the Russian press.
1.Not a booth
2. Victims will not accept the "booth"

hmmm ... but they've been taking the bilingkat "investigation" as evidence for 6 years now. Again, the same American tales about "we have proof but we won't show you" are perfectly swallowed. I think they also eat the closure of the case.
I don’t believe that someone will ask questions about what the investigation was doing for 6 years ...

Quote: opus

There is something else.

right. I cited this example as the opposite.

[opus]

Quote: SanichSan

but they have been taking it for 6 years

Victims? (accept)

Quote: SanichSan

"we have proof but we won't show it to you" are perfectly swallowed.

not swallowed. I advise you to read not only the Russian press.

[Sanichsan]

Quote: opus

not swallowed. I advise you to read not only the Russian press.

more specifically. what do you mean?
from foreign sources, I know, in fact, the commission’s reports building an evidence base on the basis of presentations in the super point and the requirement for Russia to plead guilty (of course, without evidence).
if you have any sources other than this, then please share.

[Sanichsan]

I am begging you
against the background of Western media, our sample of honesty and credibility it’s better to read ours than Western nonsense about interfering in American elections or the attempt on the Skripals, or a wiki in English with a thousand-year history of Ukrainians and racism in Russia and tatarophobia
it seems that the Western press writes for people who have completely lost the ability to think with their heads ...

[Evgeny Schulepov]

According to the Russian press?
Is the air traffic controller interrogated? Why was the plane sent to the battle zone?
The President of Ukraine and other persons were interrogated on the question: Why was the sky above the battlefield not closed to civil aviation?
Have Almaz_Antey arguments been considered? Including the fact that in Russia such missiles have long been decommissioned and disposed of?
And also that judging by the damage on the wreckage of the plane, the rocket flew in from the other side?
The Russian press is not perfect. But the western one is absolutely monstrous!

[pmkemcity]

Quote: opus

You see in justice (Netherlands) you do not understand well
Article 121 reads:
Three fair trial guarantees:
-first that the hearings are open.
Secondly, decisions must indicate considerations and the grounds on which they are based.
Thirdly, that any decision should be made in public places.
Any exception to these principles can only be made by formal law;
The bottom line: evidence must be SHOWN and ANYONE WHO WISHES CAN SEE THEM.
One grandmother said no ride

Rodchenkov’s lawyer on the case of Russian biathletes: “Be sure the testimony is his own. He affirmed every word under oath. ”
https://news.sportbox.ru/Vidy_sporta/Biatlon/spbnews_NI1166269_Advokat_Rodchenkova__o_dele_rossijskih_biatlonistok_Budte_uvereny_pokazanija__jego_sobstvennyje_On_podtverdil_kazhdoje_slovo_pod_prisagoj

[Lekz]

Well, the secret services, it's their hobby - to look at the pictures. And the representative of the prosecutor's office will declare in court: "I swear by my mother!"

[figwam]

And already this year, the Netherlands requested the photographs themselves, but was refused, as the presiding judge informed the participants in the court session.

[iouris]

Quote: Hto tama

states have long lost interest in this story

On the contrary, by not providing data, they contribute to the prolongation of the "process". Most likely, the plane was blown up: there was a bomb on board.

[Oyo Sarkazmi]

Quote: iouris

Most likely, the plane was blown up: there was a bomb on board.

The situation is much worse - because of the bicolor on board, taken as a tricolor, an American plane rocketed a plane, taking off from Poland, two AWACS from the Czech Republic and Romania directed the rocket.
The case of the investigation team is to destroy evidence, extend the case for a decade, and close after the statute of limitations.
Voloshin said upon landing: It's a pity, the wrong plane. And "that" plane with Putin with a tricolor on board landed 40 minutes later in Rostov-on-Don.

[iouris]

The story is geared towards changing the political regime in Moscow. Subsequent events confirm this. If the plan works, then the "investigation" version will never be refuted. Therefore, they pull and will pull the rubber.
Tricolor on half of the planes in Europe. The likelihood that the Su-25 would be sent to shoot down the liner is minimal, besides, the Su-25 is practically unable to hit the liner exactly in the cockpit. To guarantee the downing of the liner in those conditions, most likely, explosives and striking elements of the Buk or the Su-27 fighter were used. But the fighter is too visible, it would be detected with a high probability.
The Ukrainian authorities are puppet. Voloshin was most likely used "in the dark" or set up ("consumable material") to cover up the organizers of the terrorist attack. Perhaps he approached the liner to visually "control the process". He was even awarded (before his death).

[Oyo Sarkazmi]

Voloshin was only supposed to identify the plane. Voloshin did not know the coloring of the plane of the Russian President, and took the red-blue stripes on a white background for a tricolor. After that, the MN-17 was taken 4 km north of the corridor. In order to avoid interference with blind (from a warhead) guidance. F-22, received a command, supersonic got closer to the aircraft and launched, from a distance of 100 km. The missile went on top of the plane, and exploded in front of the windshield.
Then, drawings of the striking elements were received from Russia, and three years after the disaster, suitable ones were shown as evidence. Some. They were probably bought from lovers of rummaging around the landfills.

[Eug]

And what, Ross. satellites did not detect it? And if you spotted it, why didn’t you use it to lift very painful sanctions?

[mark2]

But how can they detect. Everyone knows that only Musk can launch satellites. It’s cheaper. He launches them 60 at a time. But the Russian cosmos, backward and in general, its existence is highly questionable. And whether he was already being questioned on the open spaces of the entire Internet and on this site in particular.

[Oyo Sarkazmi]

The sanctions will be lifted only when in the Crimea torturers will issue 1000 corpses per year. And before this period - the United States will portray a strict democrat and rob money from wealthy Russians.
As for the satellites, the Russian Defense Ministry has few of them, they can only monitor once every 5 hours. But the Americans at this time, the territory scanned 12 reconnaissance and 18 satellites of obscure purpose. Among 12 were with side-scan locators, infrared, optical, radio interceptors. That is, Americans are aware of what happened up to the 6D format, with a quarter-second storyboard.

[Siberian54]

No one in the Russian Federation was preparing for this war, so the outskirts as a former member of the alliance were simply viewed along the way with the eastern part of NATO and there were windows, and it was through such a window that the Outskirts "beech", located 65 kilometers from the launch point, and the Outskirts radars for prevention and attack aircraft highlighting the target and the reason - it was necessary to urgently destroy the BRICS alliance, which happened ... BY THE WAY: THE M1 ROCKET HEAD HAS 5000 ARMATURINS AND 2000 TWO-TURNS - FOUND ONE TWO-TAPER AND ONE PUNCH OF TWO-TURRIC ELEMENTS.

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: hto tama

Anyway, I get the impression that the states have long lost interest in this story

The states are still in the interest, because they are the main customers in this business, and dill performers, that is to say - "aviakillers", do not go to the grandmother here.

[Hto tama]

Quote: Nyrobsky

Quote: hto tama

Anyway, I get the impression that the states have long lost interest in this story

The states are still in the interest, because they are the main customers in this business, and dill performers, that is to say - "aviakillers", do not go to the grandmother here.

Well, the deed has been done, the instructions have been distributed, and therefore it’s not interesting to them, as they say: and then

[Bykov.]

Quote: hto tama

If the states had something that could confirm Russia's guilt, they would have done it a long time ago. Yes, and in general I have the impression that the states have long lost interest in this story

It would be necessary to attract them - for concealing evidence.

[RUSS]

Quote: Hto tama

If the states had something that could confirm Russia's guilt, they would have done it a long time ago.

Perhaps hold a trump card for a more passing moment. Great policy.

[Hto tama]

Quote: RUSS

Quote: Hto tama

If the states had something that could confirm Russia's guilt, they would have done it a long time ago.

Perhaps hold a trump card for a more passing moment. Great policy.

It is hard to believe if they would have shown right away, there would have been a good reason for pressure, I do not dispute the pictures they only have to show them is not beneficial otherwise all the accusations will simply fall apart

[knn54]

- declare the availability of evidence without providing them, and at the same time rely on what their court will take as a basis.

Once Vasily Ivanovich went to England and returned a week later. Petka, who met the commander, froze in surprise: Chapaev was in an expensive suit and with a bunch of bags, of which large bills were sticking out.
Coming out of a luxurious limousine, Chapaev blinked blissfully and lit a pipe. Petya, who did not understand anything, approached the commander and asked:
- Vasily Ivanovich, but where did all this come from? We’ve been saving money for the whole division for ten years, so you can visit England!
- Yes, nonsense, Petka, I just won the cards! - Chapaev answered casually.
- Wow! But how?
- Well, I came to England, and I was invited to the club. There all the men sat, drank and played cards. I took a closer look - it turned out they were playing "twenty-one"! I joined one company and began to play, looked at the cards, it turned out that I had 17. And the one sitting opposite said: “Gentlemen, I have 21!” I told him: "And show me!" And he replied: “Sir, we are in England, all gentlemen are here, and true gentlemen believe each other's word!” Here, Petka, I got so hurt, so hurt!

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: hto tama

If the states had something that could confirm Russia's guilt, they would have done it a long time ago.

Almost immediately after the catastrophe, your idea was voiced by usveterans.com, a sort of interconnected former Amer dark masters - the idea was expressed there: that if the authorities do not publish the claimed pictures, then they contradict the position of the authorities. Simple and explains everything.
It is very interesting what they will do with the Dutchman, whom they allegedly introduced

[fider]

Hto tama
"If the states had something ..."
Or maybe the states have more important secrets than to confirm the guilt of Russia?

[Alexga]

How can one show what is not.

[svp67]

Quote: AlexGa

How can one show what is not.

The availability of snapshots of the tragedy was announced by no one, but at that time the US President Barack Obama ... No one pulled him for his tongue or for other parts of his body, he said this himself without external pressure from Russia. Now let them explain, THEY, and NOT WE ...

[Infinity]

Most likely, there are pictures. But the launch point is not quite where Western prosecutors would like

[svp67]

Quote: Infinity

Most likely, there are pictures.

99,99% sure there is. Immediately, what is important, the Buk rocket leaves a clear powder trail in the sky, which can then hang in the sky for a long time, up to ten minutes, as does the trail from the warhead of this rocket. That is, here it was possible to provide images of this trace, in addition, the satellites have equipment operating in the infrared range, it was obliged to detect the launch of the propulsion system and all the time it was operating on the flight path ... The reconnaissance satellite can timely deliver this data in high resolution to your command post in real time and with precise reference to the terrain, where all this is recorded and recorded

[bk316]

99,99% sure that there is.

Well, that is, it was like that.
Obama when everything happened asked the warrior

- Do you have pictures with the launch of a Russian rocket?
-Of course have .

Well, Obama joyfully trumpeted everyone ...
And the warriors

-you only understand the rocket flew from the APU .....

It happens when you really want and in a hurry

[Avior]

Information about the capabilities of reconnaissance satellites is secret, show the image for general access means to reveal the capabilities of satellites

[svp67]

Quote: Avior

Information about the capabilities of reconnaissance satellites is secret, show the image for general access means to reveal the capabilities of satellites

I beg you ... For the press, they are deliberately rude and, but at the negotiations between the parties, these pictures show in all their glory, as an argument in disputes ... and nothing. Moreover, the satellite delivers a bunch of other information that is understandable only to specialists, right away we are talking about PHOTOS, which Israel is very successful in delivering to the market.

[Avior]

This is so, only these photos are needed for the court, and not for the press, so there must be originals, otherwise any examination will immediately determine the photo as a fake
They showed the Dutch the original, but not in the public domain
And on the originals, the capabilities of their equipment will immediately emerge, as you understand

[poquello]

Quote: Avior

This is so, only these photos are needed for the court, and not for the press, so there must be originals, otherwise any examination will immediately determine the photo as a fake
They showed the Dutch the original, but not in the public domain
And on the originals, the capabilities of their equipment will immediately emerge, as you understand

yah? and where are the copies in the public domain? that's when they say about copies (and they won’t say the code appears) that the fake then the original is needed as evidence

[K-612-O]

Why is Israel not afraid of this? In Syria, Americans used to stamp pictures of both UAVs and satellites almost every day, but right now they worry about the capabilities of the equipment. Funny as that

[bk316]

This is so, only these photos are needed for the court, and not for the press, so there must be originals,

Write garbage, it seems they have never encountered a trial behind closed doors.
First, at a public meeting, lawyers are provided with copies that do not have a neck (in this case, a rough photo). In some cases, the non-distribution of these copies is stipulated, then for publication a completely corrected version or description is submitted under the signature of the lawyers. HERE THAT WOULD FULLY APPROACH BECAUSE IT IS VISIBLE FROM WHERE THE Rocket was flying.
Then, in a closed session, the originals are presented, lawyers and experts can study them, but not make or copy them. In addition, a non-disclosure subscription is given.

[Avior]

Maybe the Americans would have done that for an American court.
Only the court is not in the States and they have nothing to do with it, the Dutch need to transfer the photo, that is, to withdraw from the country.
The Dutch want to present them publicly.
Or maybe they will do it again if lawyers and experts have access, although I can’t imagine how the Dutch lawyer will have access to the United States, except that through NATO, they showed them to the Dutch representative with access.
But there is another option - an expert with admission will look at the photo in the States, come to court and confirm with oath that the launch was there and there as an expert or witness, which is likely to happen.
Do not forget that the Dutch stated that they have several witnesses of the launch, so this photo is not an obligatory element of evidence.

[bk316]

But there is another option - an expert with a look will see a photo in the States,

Only an expert should be on the side of the accused
And if the United States would not show anything to anyone, they would be silent in a rag.
And then they already got it from the very top from the president "we have SUCH we have SUCH that we won't even tell you what it is"

[Avior]

if the US will not show anything to anyone

they have already shown

In response, the United States submitted a memorandum according to which the Dutch national counterterrorism attorney reviewed classified satellite photos in confidentiality.

as I understand it, they can show an expert with the appropriate clearance, and he will speak at the trial.

[bk316]

they have already shown

Do you understand anything in legal proceedings?
It’s pointless to show one side something, which, according to our laws, is American.

[Avior]

understand.
that means they will not show, the prosecution will have to do without this evidence.
or will be shown to a neutral expert appointed by the court and not representing either the prosecution or the accused.
He will appear in court, for example, as a neutral expert or as a witness, even if they cross-examine him.
Are you a specialist in Dutch law that argues so categorically?
American laws have nothing to do with this; they have nothing to do with the process.

[bk316]

you are a specialist in Dutch law

In the Dutch no. But these are fundamental principles of Roman law. Access to evidence from both sides and evidence of evidence. Acts even in England with their case law.
If it is correct, then even the application itself can be considered as pressure on the court.
So for fun read something about criminal trials in the USA.
Still, although I do not like them, in legal procedures they are ahead of the rest.

[Avior]

I read.
I also wonder what they will do in this situation.
But, according to their statements that they have more than one start-up witness, they may find this photo optional.
Especially if there will be no witnesses of launch from other places.
So far I have not heard of them.

[Liam]

Quote: Avior

He will appear in court, for example, as a neutral expert or as a witness, even if they cross-examine him.

Optional. Affidavit

[Avior]

There must be a reason why he cannot go to court.
The Dutch want the most public process, so I don’t think so.
But let's see.

[Liam]

In all courts of all countries there are special procedures when it comes to state secrets, secret data, etc.

[Vladimir Mashkov]

What about instantly providing a snapshot about Tehran? Is there no secret?

[Avior]

Do not know
And what kind of picture is about Tehran, throw the link, the Iranians admitted why the picture?

[Vladimir Mashkov]

You are an interesting person: I see here, I don’t see here, prove that I’m not a camel, run imagining help ... Look for yourself!

[Avior]

Help me yours unnecessarily, just throw a link about what you write, so that you can understand

[Junior Private]

That’s the whole point of democracy.

[Alexga]

Obama at that moment made the political statement needed at that moment, and this is not always true. In any case, this does not seem plausible to me. For 6 years, at least some information would have come out. IMHO

[svp67]

Quote: AlexGa

For 6 years, at least some information would have come out.

And how many years have passed since the death of Kennedy, how much information has come out?

[credo]

Quote: svp67

Quote: AlexGa

How can one show what is not.

The availability of snapshots of the tragedy was announced by no one, but at that time the US President Barack Obama ... No one pulled him for his tongue or for other parts of his body, he said this himself without external pressure from Russia. Now let them explain, THEY, and NOT WE ...

For such a case, there is already a long-worked excuse phrase - "I was not understood correctly" or "The translation was incorrect."

[avg]

Quote: svp67

The availability of snapshots of the tragedy was announced, no matter who, but at that time the US President - Barack Obama ...

There Colin Powell even caught in a lie and that .... Even S. Hussein did not help.

[post]

Balabol, no options.

[Karaul73]

Quote: hto tama

If the states had something that could confirm Russia's guilt, they would have done it a long time ago. Yes, and in general I have the impression that the states have long lost interest in this story

The states have already achieved their goal. There are sanctions and they don’t think about removing them yet. And it seems that they cannot get the most out of this story.

[cniza]

Yes, it’s not a problem for them to find a sanction, if they show the pictures, then the string will lead to Washington, where the customers of this tragedy are.

[Kurare]

Maybe lawyers should do the same: pictures from the secret satellite of the state of Limpo-po (according to the American version there is such a state) unequivocally show that they shot down from a karamultuk (sarcasm). And to be honest - this is no longer getting ridiculous.

It will be even more "not funny" when this case becomes a precedent in jurisprudence. Then it will be like in that anecdote about "trusting gentlemen": "And here Vasily Ivanovich's card was flooded."

[cniza]

By and large, this is an amazing precedent for investigating - to declare the presence of evidence without providing them, and at the same time rely on what their court will take as a basis.

We live in a "fun" time, everything turns upside down.

[Avior]

It’s hard to understand what the secret may be in images from space

top-secret is information about the resolving power of the equipment of observation satellites

[cniza]

Enlighten, I'm not ironic, but what's the secret?

[Avior]

The capabilities of intelligence equipment are always and everywhere secret
After all, the enemy is always interested in what details from outer space you, in principle, can consider, and which are not.
Will, for example, misinformation with false technology pass, or vice versa, do you have sufficient means of camouflage or the enemy will not be deceived.

[cniza]

And I thought that we had already passed this stage and that from space you can read the manufacturer’s factory on a matchbox.

[Avior]

I have not seen such photos, although I heard similar stories too.
It is probably important at what height they were still filming.

[cniza]

Height certainly matters, but spies try lower, I think so ...

[Avior]

you're right, of course they are trying, the lower the better the shooting conditions. the smaller the angle of the lens, the smaller the surface area it captures and the higher the resolution of the image.
but what is the likelihood that at the moment of launching the rocket the lens will be directed precisely at this point and the satellite will fly here?
If we are talking about commercial shooting, this is not a problem, you ordered, they told you, okay, tomorrow at 16:00 the satellite will fly to the point you need, we will take it off.
But here we were talking about a small area, because the satellite does not hang in place (except for geostationary ones at an altitude of 36000 km, it’s not the most convenient altitude for detailed shooting, if it’s not mass launches of ICBMs, of course)
The lower the satellite and the narrower the field of view of the lens, the faster the desired point will fly by, but at the same time the highest resolution.
and vice versa.
Do you think that such information about the capabilities of the enemy is needed and will it be secret?

[cniza]

Do you think that such information about the capabilities of the enemy is needed and will it be secret?

I mean that everyone knows this, it all depends on the equipment, if there is equipment and there are satellites, you can do it, if not then not, I can’t see what you shot and where.

[Avior]

details of the capabilities of surveillance tools when working in various modes - secret information, otherwise it cannot be.
presenting a snapshot of such a system will give specialists a lot.
I’m sure that you will not find such information anywhere on existing satellites.

[Zaurbek]

The evidence is secret ... the witnesses too .... the evidence of the Russian Federation does not apply to the case ....
What else did I forget? Do they take an example from our ships?

[Ham]

"if you drink with thieves - beware for your wallet"
nautilus pompilius
if they HAD any reinforced concrete evidence - they would have presented them a long time ago ...
another question is that all Dutch courts do not need evidence in principle

[mag nit]

There is no court.

[Prisoner]

And what? Did you fail to take photoshop? They’ve gotten really bad, their hands are not growing from the right place?

[ANDREY MIKHAILOV_2]

From the series "We have photos, but we will not show them to you, since they are secret. The end of the performance, Curtain please gentlemen. That they will show that the Ukrainian side shot down the plane, so they became secret."

[Igor Polovodov]

as you might expect from the Omerians ..

[Piramidon]

From the series "We have photos, but we will not show them to you, as they are secret."

Something very familiar reminds.

[ximkim]

Court in Prostokvashino

[IGOR GORDEEV]

I remembered the story of how one technician in NASA dropped a cabinet with films on the lunar program and that now there are no films. Most likely fake, but for some reason I remembered. Inspired)

[Vladimir Mashkov]

The US refusal to provide a satellite image indicates one thing: the image does NOT confirm the downing of Boeing by the Russian Buk. Remember the shot down Ukrainian plane near Tehran, then the United States instantly (and did not delay for 6 years) presented a picture! But it is in vain that many think that there, in the American photograph, there is confirmation of the shooting down of Boeing by the Ukrainian Buk. In this sense, the picture is clean: there are no traces of ANY "Beeches" (although their batteries should be visible nearby ON THE EARTH). But the picture clearly shows Voloshin's plane, which shot down the Malaysian Boeing! I wrote about all this in an article that the editor of VO DID NOT MISS, and, referring to the decision of the editorial board, I GENERALLY banned publications on VO. Why? I do not know. A military secret! Conspiracy ...

[ximkim]

[/ quote] And already this year, the Netherlands requested the photos themselves, but were refused, which was announced by the presiding judge. [quote]

It can be seen in the United States: they cannot develop a new version of Photoshop, find such a photoshop (so as not to blush and stutter), the leading Hollywood film studios cannot make such decorations for a space photo, One is insulting, they died (I believe that they were killed) in nothing innocent people because of the dirty ambitions of the redistributed circle of politicians.

[RUSS]

Quote: ximkim

It is visible in the USA they cannot: develop a new version of Photoshop, find such a photoshop

They can find a photo shooter at our Ministry of Defense, I remember our general staff painted and the photo showed how a Boeing over Donbass allegedly shot down Ukrainian SU-25.

[ximkim]

Quote: RUSS

Quote: ximkim

It is visible in the USA they cannot: develop a new version of Photoshop, find such a photoshop

They can find a photo shooter at our Ministry of Defense, I remember our general staff painted and the photo showed how a Boeing over Donbass allegedly shot down Ukrainian SU-25.

Such a snapshot from our MO is not suitable. And maybe there is a registration of the place of the event at our MO, but maybe they still hold it ?! But they ate and so, why?

[fn34440]

By type of work, I am calling to ICAO (International Civil Aviation Organization), where not a single expert could answer him why the MH-17 case was transferred to the Dutch paramilitary organization, and not to the Malaysian authorities. It is likely that this is precisely the stumbling block of the case - that the investigation is carried out by those who are comfortable doing this. Why unnecessary? Here's the thing.

I am sure that the crash of a Boeing over Ukraine is the embodiment of the Northwoods plan, presented in 1962 by Secretary of Defense Robert McNamert for consideration by John F. Kennedy. Its essence was that the American secret services had to liquidate a civilian liner over the United States, accusing the Cubans of the tragedy. This was necessary for the Americans as an excuse for a military invasion of Cuba.

What if the United States really implemented a long-forgotten plan, but already in Ukraine? After all, it was precisely after the crash of the Boeing with all the ensuing consequences that the United States so eagerly started talking about anti-Russian sanctions and finally stopped any contacts with Russia.

The theory is very interesting for discussion. Why invent new sabotage plans? Everything was invented before them (SBU with curators).

[Avior]

no expert could answer him why the MN-17 case was transferred to the Dutch paramilitary organization, and not to the Malaysian authorities.

one can only guess why they did not tell you about Appendix 13 to the Convention on Civil Aviation.
http://www.6pl.ru/asmap/Annexes//an13_cons_ru.pdf
Chapter 5.

5.1 The State of the scene of the event shall initiate an investigation into the circumstances of the accident and
is responsible for conducting such an investigation, however, it may transfer in whole or in part
conducting this investigation to another state or regional investigation organization
accidents by mutual agreement and agreement.

Note that there is no indication to whom the investigation can be specifically transferred.
And in this case, the Netherlands was transferred to the investigation with the consent of, including Malaysia and with its participation.

[Mountain shooter]

I believe that if the photo at least EXTREMELY denounced Russia, they would have glued ALL the posts on the street and all YOU TUBE. And so-this is practically a confession ukrovermahta ...

[Vladimir61]

Do not show? Do they have them?
Maybe there is, they just will not show it, because then everyone will understand that the provocation was planned by them, with the participation of the country 404. Not for nothing, the satellite was at a given time, in a given place.

[Cristall]

In response, the United States submitted a memorandum according to which the Dutch National Counter-Terrorism Attorney reviewed confidential satellite photographs in confidentiality.

They showed the prosecutor. Open sources do not publish.

[ximkim]

Or maybe it's a fake? Like, the prosecutor saw the photos, take his word for it. They’ll fall into this version, clap their hands, and that's it, the trial is over.

[Cristall]

Quote: ximkim

Or maybe it's a fake? Like, the prosecutor saw the photos, take his word for it. They’ll fall into this version, clap their hands, and that's it, the trial is over.

according to the author

In response, the United States submitted a memorandum according to which the Dutch national counterterrorism attorney reviewed classified satellite photographs. subject to confidentiality

he cannot provide anything. Officially, he has nothing.

[kriten]

The best evidence is that the investigation of 5 years was engaged in falsification, adjusting a set of fakes to the version necessary for the owners.

[Tuesday]

They will not show, because they are not there. The board was shot down by plane, and most interestingly, a Turkish missile.

[Pvi1206]

and after that the USA has the audacity to demand something from other states ...
every time in this case they have to be poked in the face in this use case ...

[lego2]

with these pictures, they will hold any Ukrainian authorities by their balls.

[Roman_vh]

It’s hard to keep for what is not. The image of a soldering iron in a famous place is more suitable. And they hold the plug near the outlet.

[rocket757]

Something to discuss, crush wasted water in a mortar.

[I AM BELARUSIAN]

Yes, because there is NOTHING to show!

[Sibguest]

(a parody of an episode from the movie "Kill the Dragon"):
Does the US have secret pictures with the launch of the BUK?
Is.
But not secret.
And not in the USA
And not with the launch of BEECH.
... and in general - not pictures.

[akinfeeffr]

Yes, we know this story, again the cleaning lady accidentally threw

[Lord of the Sith]

Of course, the Yankees will not show a satellite photo of a rocket launch on MH17.
It is not beneficial for them to show the truth.

And others try not to see anything, blindfold their eyes with dollar bills, without forgetting to blame Russia for all sins.

[Ingenegr]

Quote: svp67

Now let them explain, THEY, and NOT WE ...

What is the problem? Make, let them explain.

[polikutin.e]

Adobe PhotoShop will launch and show. What you will not do if you really need to. And so they still said the satellite was looking the other way and there was no photo, but now that the satellite has come to its senses and it turns out there is a photo, then all the same Adobe helps

[APASUS]

If the Americans owned the info that the MN-17 had been shot down from Russian Buk, we would be killed by sanctions like Iran and Korea.

[revnagan]

Having images taken from a spy satellite at a specific time in a specific place, you can calculate the orbit and trajectory of this satellite with all the consequences - to understand what, where and when this very satellite saw or can see. Of course, this information is "not for outsiders." The judge saw, and that's enough. Yes, by the way, why won't Russia show its pictures? It will immediately be clear where the launch was from. .

[Motorist]

it is possible to calculate the orbit and trajectory of this satellite

No. The orbits of which satellites are needed are known to anyone. Our knew about this satellite (s) - re-read (-see) the news of that time.

[dgonni]

It is difficult to understand that the secret may be in space images of Ukrainian territory six years ago.
For the author! The secret may not be the picture itself or the pictures. The angle and the range from which and in which it is filmed may be secret. It may suddenly turn out that a thread is a scientific companion of nass who should look into the wilds of the cosmos. He calmly looks at the earth and can see in certain radiation ranges something that no one even guesses about.
There are no doubts that there are pictures.

[Moskovit]

Is it possible that a powerful technological power, a world leader and a hegemon in everything, cannot make a civilian version of the picture? It is simply ridiculous to listen to some ridiculous explanations of the US refusal to provide the public with evidence of 100% guilt of the militia in this resonant case. How can a purely civilian person, a layman, a judge, distinguish real photos from fakes? And it will turn out as with the recent documents of mercenaries from Russia with female names ...

[Jambal Green]

It would be better if material evidence of Joseph Resch's investigation, which the police seized from his bank safe, were returned to material evidence. To hell with them with these pictures, especially since there is no launch from them on the ground but only a fighter and its rocket.

[Ura Karbovnichiy]

Concealment of evidence in all countries of the world is considered as complicity.
That the Golan court does not know the basics of jurisprudence.

[tolmachiev51]

Why did the Malaysian plane become the "victim" !? - everything in this matter is thought out to the smallest detail, therefore the "trial" is going on like that. The prosecutor saw the photographs, scratched his turnip, and then two "secret" witnesses appeared. . the principle of "highley-like" works, Theresa May went down in the history of the most deceitful swindlers and "international law" in their understanding. works ..

[Ros 56]

This is a golem farce, not a court, such as the Skripals case. Striped will not provide anything, otherwise you will have to judge Giblets and his gopkompak. So do not care about this thing and forget.

[Non liberoid Russian]

if everything was against Russia there, they would have shown long ago ... and since they cover their lackeys

[Alt 22]

So probably there was no photo?

[PValery53]

America shamelessly "sculpts a hunchback", blaming "everything and all" Russia. Russia needs to shake off this nonsense and, if possible, punish this rude "hegemon" for such mean things.

[Dmitry Zadorozhniy]

I remember when a Boeing exploded over the Hudson. The congressman also screamed that he was hit by the military, and he has all the evidence, but he will not show it. As a result, it turned out that the wiring in the central bank was short. Famous case.

[trahterist]

Quote: Smolin

It is noted that satellite images, which show the launch of a Buk missile at a Boeing MH17, were shown to the Danish special services. Despite this, the data belonging to the United States will not be declassified and attached to the case. Instead, there will be a memorandum in the case detailing the details of the tragedy.
A representative of the Netherlands prosecutor’s office was shown a photograph and allowed to compare it with the information set out in the memorandum. According to him, everything is described correctly

The United States showed these pictures to special services and the representative of the Netherlands prosecutor's office and their findings will be attached to the case.
These pictures will not be shown only to couch experts.

No need to hysteria in bold type, dear.
Until these pictures are shown to the whole world, such "evidence" is worthless.

[trahterist]

Quote: opus

Quote: SanichSan

but they have been taking it for 6 years

Victims? (accept)

Quote: SanichSan

"we have proof but we won't show it to you" are perfectly swallowed.

not swallowed. I advise you to read not only the Russian press.

My dear, for example, I read the English press and news portals of the .co.uk domain (your blunders with the .en domain so be forgiven, because you are clearly not in the subject of the British Internet), simply because I live on a lot of islands time already, and there murkiness and unfounded accusations (highlie lykli) against Russia, a dime a dozen.
But there is progress, not the most stubborn British themselves with irony perceive such news and laugh at such a clumsy information war.
So I don’t need to sing fables here about the Russian press, yeah.
Z. S. In general, it is amusing when the sufferers and truth-seekers from Russia talk about European countries.
We then, on the ground, it is not so clearly visible, right?

[Alex]

"The United States has informed the Dutch prosecutor's office that they will not be able to provide declassified satellite images, which allegedly capture the moment the Buk missile was launched at a Malaysian Boeing (flight MH17 in the skies over Donbas in July 2014)," Presiding Judge Hendrik Steenhuis said during the meeting on this case.

"The court asked whether it is possible to add to the case classified satellite images, which recorded the launch of the rocket, which were transferred to the Netherlands special services, and thus declassify them. The prosecutor's office replied that the request was sent to the United States back in 2014, in response a memorandum was received. . The Dutch national prosecutor for the fight against terrorism was able to verify the accuracy of this memorandum, "- said the judge.

“The prosecutor concluded that the memorandum was supported by other sources with whom he consulted. He also requested that his findings be appended to the dossier. The US authorities have advised that they cannot provide additional data regarding the launch of the rocket in addition to this. Thus, additional information on the launch of the rocket was not attached to the dossier, "the presiding judge summed up.

According to Steenhais, in this way, the prosecutor was able to familiarize himself with classified documents in confidence. But in fact, during an interview with Fred Westerbeke, it turned out that the Dutch did not have access to American satellite images, and could only get acquainted with the report, presumably based on these images! "

Christelle Néant (Agoravox, France)

[Miron]

US will not show satellite photo of rocket launch on MH17
***
There is no such picture. Because it cannot be.
The United States has a snapshot of a missile launch on another plane. On a military aircraft APU with the American CIA mercenaries. This is not a satellite image. And it is dangerous both for the US spy who made it, and for the investigation under MH17, since it disavows the whole process, like a screen for American military intervention in the affairs of Ukraine.

[NF68]

Have you really lost these pictures?