The American media proposed to equip the Su-35 fighter with western avionics


Against the backdrop of the breakdown of negotiations regarding the completion of the final sale of Su-35 fighters for the Indonesian Air Force, Russia proposed adapting this heavy fighter to the needs of its client from Southeast Asia. It is possible that the aircraft will have to be modified due to Western technology.


Russia can supply Indonesia with the latest Su-35 multipurpose fighters, adapting them to the customer's needs as much as possible. We are confident that this is the best choice to increase the combat effectiveness of the Indonesian Air Force

- said the other day in this regard at Rosoboronexport.

However, Jakarta, despite the popular belief, fears not only US sanctions that threaten to take extreme measures in the event of the acquisition of a Russian fighter. According to the American publication Military Watch, Indonesia believes that the Su-35 will not fit into the paradigm of network-centric operations, which are based primarily on Western technologies.

Su-35, as well as older Su-27 and Su-30 aircraft, already in service with Indonesia, cannot exchange data and are not optimized for working with F-16 fighter jets or warships of European construction. However, as indicated by the designated publication, this problem can be solved if the Su-35 is equipped with avionics of Western origin, as Algeria did with its Su-30MKA.

This could potentially create the conditions necessary for the successful sale of Indonesia's aircraft.

- writes Military Watch.

According to him, now we are talking only about 11 cars, but further purchases are likely. New batches of Su-35 fighters may eventually replace the Su-30MK2 and Su-27, which are currently in service with the Indonesian Air Force. Moreover, all of these aircraft use the same infrastructure.
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  1. letinant 2 June 2020 05: 50 New
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    The author reads his text !? Title:
    The American media proposed to equip the Su-35 fighter with western avionics
    and the article in black and white says:
    Against the backdrop of the breakdown of negotiations regarding the completion of the final sale of Su-35 fighters for the Indonesian Air Force, Russia proposed adapting this heavy fighter to the needs of its client from Southeast Asia.
    .
    Gentlemen, authors, be attentive to the text, the difference between the title and the text loses your authority. And the negotiations did not break down, there were the wishes of the Indonesian Air Force, if possible to install non-Russian equipment. The reason is that all of the aviation control equipment was created, either in the United States or in NATO countries. Therefore, it does not work out a single information field for controlling all aircraft (network-centric system). Our looked agreed. WHERE ARE HERE FOREIGN MEDIA !?
    1. Eugene-Eugene 2 June 2020 06: 26 New
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      the difference between the title and the text loses your credibility

      In Russia, there were no statements about equipping the Su-35 with western avionics. What was meant by adaptation is the Military Watch assumption, which believes that this option is most optimal. So the name of the material is quite adequate.

      negotiations did not break

      The contract was signed in February 18th, and things are still there.
      1. letinant 2 June 2020 06: 42 New
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        Against the backdrop of the breakdown of negotiations regarding the completion of the final sale of Su-35 fighters for the Indonesian Air Force, Russia proposed adapting this heavy fighter to the needs of its client from Southeast Asia.
        Are these your words?
        The contract was signed in February 18th, and things are still there.
        Again, are these your words?
        Basically, there are disagreements to the contract, they are wishes, they are also an addition. And another question, do you work in the legal department of the United Aviation Corporation? Or maybe at the factory that produces these aircraft? If not, do not talk nonsense about the execution of the signed contract. If there is a specific document, then yes.
        1. Eugene-Eugene 2 June 2020 06: 54 New
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          And then the law department, the KLA, the ZIG and the Indian MiG? There are no open data on the nature of possible adaptation. What is its essence - only assumptions. In the case of this material - the opinion of Military Watch. This publication also writes about the breakdown of negotiations, with which I agree.
          1. letinant 2 June 2020 07: 01 New
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            Why india Would you like to say Indonesia? But only the UAC legal department knows whether the contract is valid or not. Only engineers know for which country they make airplanes. This is to the words:
            The contract was signed in February 18th, and things are still there.
            . How do you know about the impossibility of possible adaptation? Participate in it?
            1. Eugene-Eugene 2 June 2020 07: 16 New
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              Would you like to say Indonesia?

              Is it hard with humor or is it all looking for loopholes to justify your passages? If it is easier to read, replace with Algerian laughing
              only the legal department of the UAC knows ... Only engineers know

              “Man assumes, but God disposes”: let Military Watch put forward his assumptions, I’m trying to be guided by reliable information.
              So what about the name, have you changed your mind? All the same, everything is very bad?
              1. letinant 2 June 2020 07: 27 New
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                “Man assumes, but God disposes”: let Military Watch put forward his assumptions, I’m trying to be guided by reliable information

                What reliable information? Where from? Military Watch Facebook Channel? Is this reliable information? Or a company producing watches for the military? If so, then OBS (One Grandmother Said).
                1. Eugene-Eugene 2 June 2020 07: 42 New
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                  Do you even understand what you are carrying? I laid out view (where is the reliable information?) is a competent enough publication, the material is completely a translation of the text, far from Facebook: https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/nato-avionics-on-the-su-35-russia-offers-to- adapt-its-elite-fighter-to-indonesia-s-needs
                  You began to resent the name:
                  WHERE ARE HERE FOREIGN MEDIA !?
                  . I explained: this is the opinion of Military Watch, there is no reliable information about Russia's readiness to equip the Su-35 with western avionics. Accordingly, how can I name the material, for example, "Su-35s will receive Western avionics"? Then you cling to words about the failure of the contract, I explain again - this is the opinion of Military Watch (with which I agree, although this does not apply to the merits).
                  Now you change your shoes in the air: if in the first comment it is obvious to you that Western avionics will be installed, now you are questioning this. What is the attitude of commentators of this kind who spend my opinion on useless bickering trying to pass themselves off as a competent critic? I suppose to ignore them.
                  1. letinant 2 June 2020 07: 54 New
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                    You UNDERSTAND correctly, all the technical plan information transmitted through the media is not reliable. Reliable is everything from an enterprise engaged in these developments.
                    The author reads his text !? Title:
                    The American media proposed to equip the Su-35 fighter with western avionics
                    and the article in black and white says:
                    Against the backdrop of the breakdown of negotiations regarding the completion of the final sale of Su-35 fighters for the Indonesian Air Force, Russia proposed adapting this heavy fighter to the needs of its client from Southeast Asia.
                    Remembered? So the American media proposed or Russia?
                    1. Eugene-Eugene 2 June 2020 12: 52 New
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                      So what are the claims to the title in the light of the above?
                      1. letinant 2 June 2020 12: 56 New
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                        Title:
                        The American media proposed to equip the Su-35 fighter with western avionics

                        Text:
                        Russia proposed adapting this heavy fighter to the needs of its client from Southeast Asia.
                        Is Russian not your native language?
                      2. Eugene-Eugene 2 June 2020 12: 58 New
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                        are you friends with logic? The adaptation was announced in Russia by an official without disclosing its details. Amer Press tried to understand the essence of adaptation by making an appropriate proposal. Fershteyn?
                      3. letinant 2 June 2020 14: 54 New
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                        Here is the source:
                        https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/20205291446-dgRGX.html
                      4. Eugene-Eugene 2 June 2020 15: 06 New
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                        AND? The words of Rosoboronexport about the readiness to carry out some kind of adaptation, as indicated in the material. And is it here? Do you still think the name is inadequate? Or is it your “principled” position already, having scored all your arguments and logic, to uphold your innocence?
                      5. letinant 2 June 2020 20: 51 New
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                        You are a very strange person. They have already shown you many times what is the reason, they quoted you. And you refuse to see. I just don’t know anymore how to point out your inaccuracy. I understand your perseverance.
                2. aviator6768 2 June 2020 21: 02 New
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                  cast, there is that essentially or only "I feel such a personal dislike for the victim, I can’t eat." (with) ? started a preparque, spoil the branch, where are the admins (although there’s a girl in aviation, pah, pah ..., God forbid)
              2. ApJlekuHo 2 June 2020 15: 00 New
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                the author is still on foot! (c) Murzilko
          2. Vasyan1971 2 June 2020 08: 53 New
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            Quote: Eugene-Eugene
            I'm trying to be guided by reliable information.

            Quote: Eugene-Eugene
            I posted an opinion (where does the reliable information?)

            Quote: Eugene-Eugene
            Do you even understand what you are carrying?

            It turns out, somehow ...
  2. strelokmira 2 June 2020 09: 22 New
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    In the case of this material - the opinion of Military Watch.

    And what does Military Watch have to do with the American press? This is an "American" publication like The National Interest.
  • Avior 2 June 2020 07: 32 New
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    It seems to me that the subtlety is that it is written slightly ambiguously.
    . Russia proposed to adapt this heavy fighter to the needs of its client

    In the context of the title and article, it’s clear what adaptation consists of.
    But it is not directly written in the text that Russia proposed the installation of precisely Western avionics, and it is not written what adaptation is generally proposed by Russia, therefore a misunderstanding arose
    1. aviator6768 2 June 2020 20: 58 New
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      "written - not written" .... In fact, there is something to say ?? In general, in the course, what is "avionics"? What differs from AO, REO, AiREO, SD, etc. ? At least 200-300 hours have training on the topic or just the exam and google ???
  • Bar1 2 June 2020 13: 57 New
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    American electronics will let you down at the right time. Indonesia and everyone else who uses such electronics would need to know this.
  • aviator6768 2 June 2020 20: 55 New
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    What manners - cling to words and "grab hold of the tongue" ?! Go to the proofreaders - there is a place for you! Avionics on all of ours is not Russian (didn’t it surprise anyone?). They copied (not always successfully) .... And it doesn’t matter, the norms work. Yes, and the engines themselves (all turbojet engines come from the English D-1, presented to us), also in the order of things. We must go further, be more flexible. trickier, if you like, more efficient - that’s where the complexity is.
    1. free_flier 3 June 2020 09: 03 New
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      The point of a skirmish is not to turn Military Review into an icteric press, trying to catch a hype on a clear heading. And I agree with the opponent.
  • rocket757 2 June 2020 06: 57 New
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    Indonesia believes that the Su-35 will not fit into the paradigm of network-centric operations, which are based primarily on Western technology.

    Fu you, well, you fingers are bent .... yes, these very "network-centric paradigms" do not really exist for anyone! It was beautiful on paper, but in kind you need to make a bunch of material and other costs, to create something real.
    Although, the trends are what needs to be done, at least at disputed, conflicting lines. But this is not straight tomorrow, and not at all! If the territory is vast, it will all be built, built ....
    In general ... they are afraid of minke whales and all business.
    1. Mikhail3 2 June 2020 09: 02 New
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      Yes, this data is super-cool - a picture with a marker snap on coordinates. Image recognition is still centralized. At most - a marker, induced by the pilot’s finger with a comment. Type - it seems there is something there! May be...
      The general battle management system is unlikely to work at all when it’s well, it's just an advertisement for a cut.
      1. rocket757 2 June 2020 09: 09 New
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        Quote: Mikhail3
        The general battle management system is unlikely to work at all when it’s well, it's just an advertisement for a cut.

        Automated control system is not going fast. So far, this is help to management officers of a rather high level.
        Ideally, to bring this process to the lower ranks ... but it’s still fantastic and yes, very big dibs for all kinds of companies, military contractors, superiors with wide shoulder straps and of course any mutil-twisted!
        Although in air defense - missile defense, it is simply a necessity! The transience of the battles and various stages of the attack / attack is so high that a person simply does not have time to keep track of everything, correctly analyze and issue commands. So, first of all, everything new appears there.
        1. Mikhail3 2 June 2020 09: 14 New
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          For
          Quote: rocket757
          assistance to command officers of a sufficiently high level.

          will have to pay with huge blood, as soon as this thing is applied on a large scale.
          Quote: rocket757
          Although in air defense - missile defense, it is simply a necessity!

          At the installation level - I agree. Attempts to integrate the battlefield into the "machine mind" will also result in such losses and disasters that now no one wants to take the initiative. The elementary task of driving an unmanned car (one !!), compared to this one, has not only not been solved, but continues to consume resources on such a scale that startups with pathetic budgets of $ 1-2 billion have already died and are absorbed by large players, but something , except for announcements. nothing is visible in the waves.
          It's not a shooter to run ...
          1. rocket757 2 June 2020 09: 28 New
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            The main thing is still a person, a responsible, command link.
            Automation can perform specific tasks ... for example, knocking everything sho flies from here to here and not be distracted by what flies from here to there. The correct division of the task into groups of specific subtasks ... in general, before managing everything and everything, like some kind of AI, there is no conversation yet ....
            1. Mikhail3 2 June 2020 09: 40 New
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              Quote: rocket757
              The main thing is still a person

              Sorry, comrade. Not a programmer for an hour? Here the question is not mathematics, but psychology. Who commands the battlefield? Really the one who is capable of this? Hehe ... Most of all, our top-level commanders now resemble Maru Baghdasaryan - majors who crawled upstairs with folder money and connections, who can do whatever they want without fear of any problems and, moreover, without any responsibility. Well, or generals like a military unit by the name Wolf Remember, everything flashes on the screen - the working mouth and all the breasts in the orders?
              The current rulers do not see a way out of this situation (and they are not looking. It’s their children and protégé), but how is it necessary to manage the war? So, pay attention, even when the GDP suddenly declared that the one who breaks ahead with AI will rule the world? So this is not casual. In this, the rulers of the present see the future - their children and protege-wolves can passably manage only a tube folded from a thousand-dollar bill for quick absorption. And what to do?
              It is impossible to turn to live advisers, this leads to an increase in "unconstructive sentiments in the troops," that is, disdain for contempt for such commanders, and hatred for those who send people to slaughter to no avail. In general, the recommendations of AI are a panacea. Give them a line of help, and that’s it. They will read it as their own order and end. What kind of "man" is there ?! Alas...
              1. rocket757 2 June 2020 10: 00 New
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                Quote: Mikhail3
                Not a programmer for an hour? Here the question is not mathematics, but psychology.

                I also have programmers.
                Quote: Mikhail3
                Who commands the battlefield?

                long ago departed from military affairs, and the battlefield, a considerable time, we had 1000 km. there, as much here, airspace. Just the means of control and automation of the process. The big bosses made the final decision, to beat - not to beat, everything else happened without their intervention.
                Quote: Mikhail3
                So, pay attention, even when the GDP suddenly declared that the one who breaks ahead with AI will rule the world?

                Words, words, reality are simpler / more complicated, because POLITICIANS rule, and servants and ordinary people have to rake up the consequences, HOW ALWAYS!
                So, the servants will complete the task when the team arrives! And the consequences will have to think only later.
                AI in the foreseeable future, this is just an aid to a serving person in the process of executing an order, completing a task.
                1. Mikhail3 2 June 2020 10: 16 New
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                  So you don’t want to understand what I’m saying at all? Interesting ...
                  1. rocket757 2 June 2020 10: 30 New
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                    What to talk about? Crazy Mara to compare with the military, I do not fight, no way. to the general of the Ministry of Internal Affairs by the name of Wolf ... what is it about?
                    Another topic .... and so, the army, is a reflection of the processes taking place in society, in power. My opinion, a mess, with all that it implies ... EVERYTHING.
                    1. Mikhail3 2 June 2020 10: 39 New
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                      No, that’s the topic. This is the principle of guiding the selection of cadres generally in the country, and even more so in the army. At the moment, a military professional can grow a maximum of a colonel. And then, far, far from everywhere. And the leading cadres, those that will be, and even now they are giving out orders in full, are selected as I described. Like civilian senior management, naturally.
                      And determining decisions, if you want to predict them, should be considered from the standpoint of reality. There is no senior management, and there will no longer be a place for those who really understand the matter. Putin and Medvedev were a little messy with their "personnel reserves", but in matters of public administration everything is quite simple.
                      Once you have built a system, then it becomes self-reproducing. Cronyism and bribe determine everything in our state. ALL. There are no exceptions. You yourself know this perfectly well, right?) Are you the leader? Well))? Here it is.
                      And this has already led to the clogging of the highest levels of management by completely incompetent personnel. Worse than incompetent.
                      Well, what does your everyday experience say? Hehe ...
                      1. rocket757 2 June 2020 10: 51 New
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                        Quote: Mikhail3
                        Well, what does your everyday experience say? Hehe ...

                        And he says that out of all 5 “golden kids”, only 1 remained in bread positions !!!
                        And then it just works fine, there are no questions. Two flew out with a whistle, one job was better found by himself, and the girl left him after him, although there were no questions to her. Yes, we do not have a state-owned enterprise, but when the owner dismissed the sons of directors, it was amazing.
                        The army has always rested on officers not of the top echelon, that's for sure, and it was their life that was not sugar then, not sugar now ...
                        Parquet generals who curl around the top politicians are absolutely NOTHING!
                        As the top politician says, so it goes!
                        Did you have anything to do with the army? Do you understand what they started to write about?
                      2. Mikhail3 2 June 2020 11: 55 New
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                        You do not understand. Many do not understand. It’s like killing a person - it’s one thing to give an order, and another to cut yourself. There is a master who depends on the results of his office. But there is nothing like that in public administration! The dependence between the mistakes made and the immediate position of a person in the state exists only in war, and not in every one.
                        Alas, the position of a person in the state hierarchy is completely independent of the effectiveness of his work. At least that is how all modern states are arranged. Do you understand? When the general of the "paradise group" becomes the culprit of some enchanting failure, albeit with enormous sacrifices, he is by no means fired, as a rule he is raised. Edge - "transferred to another site of work." The same with civil rulers.
                        Speaking about your experience, I had in mind the experience of communicating with representatives of state structures ... And I did not talk about those on whom the army is HOLD. I know that too. I explained who commands her, and how exactly he does it.
  • Herman 4223 2 June 2020 07: 19 New
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    And we ourselves will not be able to create means of communication that will interact with foreign models?
    I do not believe in the superuniqueness of export designs for third countries.
    1. rocket757 2 June 2020 09: 13 New
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      Exchange protocols, recognition and processing algorithm MISCELLANEOUS! And no one will share these secrets with others!
      The control, reconnaissance, and computing complex itself may have a more flexible architecture ... but then it will have to be done with large reserves, in order to create and upload programs for interacting with other people's equipment. NOT FAVORABLE!
  • ApJlekuHo 2 June 2020 07: 26 New
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    ganba-aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
  • Pvi1206 2 June 2020 07: 41 New
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    how else to get western avionics along with documentation and a license ...
  • Ros 56 2 June 2020 07: 55 New
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    Yeah, contact you, then you don’t know what to expect from the plane. Get another Skynet.
  • lelik613 2 June 2020 08: 11 New
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    The integration of western (and not only) avionics into our export aircraft gives an interesting experience in exploring the possibilities and characteristics ...
  • rotmistr60 2 June 2020 08: 40 New
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    letinant против Eugene-Eugene. So we talked. The funny thing is that both are, as it were, right. One (probably a great connoisseur?) Clung to the words of the author, the other tried to explain by referring to his text, which really matches the title. Bottom line: what did the respected argue about?
  • Mikhail3 2 June 2020 08: 57 New
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    into the paradigm of network-centric operations,
    In the sense of not be able to transmit data in a single format? What a problem! Oh God!! In fact, if gentlemen customers pass the communication protocols, for a couple of weeks you can slowly reorganize. Well, in order not to give out "secret" data that these protocols are known to everyone, and you just need to reload the software.
    They want a bribe, as usual.
  • iouris 2 June 2020 12: 29 New
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    But what's the point of building and selling airplanes in which the UAC share will be well below 50% and the “partners” will earn on logistical support, shifting responsibility to the manufacturer of the “main product”. This is an ambush.
  • Miron 2 June 2020 13: 12 New
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    What nonsense. They need a squadron of 10 PAK-FA-E. Only they are already worth 500 million. e. apiece.
    It is impossible to spoil the car with avionics, which reduces its combat capabilities. Irbis is a network-centric system, for the unification of which into a single network is needed not Western avionics systems, but the corresponding means of early warning systems.
    In turn, Russia does not have such systems (AWACS) for export. But PAK-FA-E, it is the center of AWACS, able to combine all the existing machines in Indonesia into a single network and tighten their existing infrastructure on Western components through the appropriate software package.
    When you consider that one AWACS machine is worth a billion y. e. and here, a fighter is attached to each for free, I think Indonesia has a chance to solve all its problems with aviation at a very reasonable price, with a 10-fold duplicated control center (and not even launch satellites for this - 10 billion entrance ticket to the club) .
    Of course, it wants to make out of Su-35 DRLO strongholds of 110 million y. e. for a little thing, it certainly sounds very nice on paper, but in fact, to fight on a scooter with a motor screwed on a wire is not quite a rational thing. So motors only street screw screws to their scooters, and Russia has reasonable fluctuations to offer this to its customers. Because then, for how these self-made mopeds from the gateway, our officers and military engineers will have to answer through service bureaus. And this is very, very expensive. Not only that, in real combat it is simply useless.
    1. Miron 2 June 2020 13: 54 New
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      For some reason, the publication does not allow further correction of the comment ...
      The main problem of such a “bolt-mounted AWACS” to the Su-35 is the internal conflict of the fighter mission (4th generation) with the function of a stronghold of network-centric military infrastructure.
      The first requires suddenness and mobility, the second requires vitality and constant presence.
      Without an enveloping and deeply integrated solution, including the use of the stealth function, the fighter serving as the DRLO stronghold will be a bright target on enemy radars and will be destroyed first in a collision.
      But the 5th generation car can sneak up invisible, and at the same time perform the headquarters functions for other machines, and all this in harmony, protected from defeat, while maintaining the suddenness and capabilities of the fighter and survivability.
      The main thing is that Russian weapons are not just good weapons or weapons that are affordable there, our weapons, these are weapons that bring victory. This is a high brand that needs to be maintained. And do not chase after every dollar bill, forgetting to put on the pants.
      1. Hexenmeister 2 June 2020 14: 40 New
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        the fighter serving as the control point of the AWACS will be a bright target on enemy radars
        exactly the same mark as any other fighter!
        and will be destroyed first in a collision
        the first POSSIBLE will be destroyed the one who first enters the zone of possible defeat at the enemy, be a little further, and you will not be the first!
        this is an internal conflict of a fighter mission (4th generation) with the function of a stronghold of a network-centric military infrastructure
        there is no conflict, because the fighter, with a high range of detection of its radar, can be assigned the task of operational support of the link (group) of fighters, and the support of the squadron is already in question. If we talk about something global, then a similar radar on a fighter should already work "according to other principles", not according to "fighter"!
  • ApJlekuHo 2 June 2020 15: 02 New
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    In fact, there is no essence
  • Alien From 3 June 2020 02: 40 New
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    And huh hu not ho ho ??