Military Review

The October Revolution was carried out by tsarist generals

288

Historical the significance of the October Revolution (until 1927 even the Bolsheviks called it a coup) can hardly be underestimated; it laid the foundation for a “red project” that made it possible to implement a completely different model of social structure and build a society of social justice.


According to the canonical version, the revolution was made by the Bolshevik party, which formed the Military Revolutionary Committee, organized the overthrow of the Provisional Government, raised the proletariat of Petrograd, created the "Red Guard", which captured the key points of the capital, the Winter Palace and took power into its own hands.

On the other hand, how was the unprepared mass of “party members”, workers and soldiers able to carry out a coup that required careful preparation, staff work, and training of forces and means to carry out such a unique operation? How could a military-industrial complex, where there was only one military officer in the leadership, just a second lieutenant Antonov-Ovseenko, could prepare and successfully carry out such a unique operation?

The coincidence of interests of the Bolsheviks and generals


Clearly, there was another force that was deliberately preparing a coup. Lenin in his note on October 24, 1917 writes: “Who should take power? It’s not important now: let it be taken by the Military Revolutionary Committee or “another institution” ... The seizure of power is a matter of insurrection, its political purpose will be clarified after the seizure. ” Also at the 1st Congress of the Comintern in 1919, he declared: "The October Revolution is a bourgeois revolution." What are these words of Lenin talking about and what “other institution” does he mention?

According to the studies of the Russian historian Fursov and the writer Strizhak, under the unconditional political leading role of the Bolshevik party, the direct seizure of power was carried out by patriotic high-ranking generals of the Intelligence Directorate of the General Staff of the Russian Army. There is no direct evidence for this; there is a mass of indirect evidence supporting this version.

Why did the tsarist generals enter into a coalition with the Bolsheviks?

October had a backstory connected with February, which ended with the overthrow of the king. Since 1915, four conspiracies have been prepared against the unpopular monarch: the palace, the military, the intelligence services of England (France) and the Masons, who were represented by the State Duma, the Socialist Revolutionaries and the Mensheviks.

In early March 1917, after the abdication of the tsar, masons seized power in Russia. The State Duma formed the Provisional Government, which began the collapse of the state and the army. “Order No. 1” was published, submission to officers was canceled in the army, and soldiers' committees were created to decide whether to fulfill orders or not. Without discipline, the front began to fall apart, the efforts of the Provisional Government, under pressure from the Allies to carry out the offensive, ended in failure, the government changed four times before October, but all the time it was under the control of England and France, trying to ruin and weaken Russia.

Seeing the impending catastrophe, patriotic officers of the General Staff began to look for a force that could prevent the collapse of the country. They settled on the Bolshevik party, which was gaining strength and influence, in addition, there were contacts with the party leadership through a member of the Central Committee of the CPSU (b) Vladimir Bonch-Bruevich and his brother General Mikhail Bonch-Bruevich, chief of staff of the Northern Front.

The Bolshevik party had two wings: communist internationalists, dreaming of a world revolution, which Trotsky later came to represent, and revolutionaries seeking to change the system in Russia, represented by Stalin and Dzerzhinsky, who also had experience in organizing uprisings and resistance to the authorities.

It should be noted that future coup participants began to arrive in Petrograd after February, Stalin from exile on March 12, Lenin from Switzerland on April 3, and Trotsky from the USA only on May 4, naturally, they did not have time to prepare the uprising. In addition, Stalin and Lenin had disagreements on further ways of fighting and using the army. After negotiations, they agreed and the Military Bureau was created in April in the Central Committee of the RCP (B.), Which was headed by Stalin and Dzerzhinsky.

The generals understood that the country was falling apart and it was urgent to take measures to remove the protégés of England and France from power, end the war and conclude peace, dissolve the decomposed army and form a new one capable of defending the empire. They offered to immediately nationalize the defense and metallurgical industries and begin the rearmament of the army, since twenty years later a new war would begin and Russia should be ready for it. With such proposals, the generals went to the king back in 1916, but he did not support the generals.

Joint action against the Provisional Government and Kornilov


The interests of the generals and part of the leadership of the Bolsheviks coincided, and in May contacts began between them. In June, the Bolsheviks decided on the day of the opening of the 1st Congress of Soviets to start an armed uprising in order to seize power and immediately conclude peace, but the congress forbade them to hold the intended demonstration. The Bolsheviks began to be accused of treason and work for Germany, Lenin had to leave Petrograd, Stalin began to lead the party, he and Dzerzhinsky continued preparations for the uprising.

In early July, the generals warned the Bolsheviks that a provocation was being prepared against them. On July 3, under the leadership of Stalin, the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks (St. Bloodshed was avoided, Stalin and the head of the Intelligence Directorate, General Potapov, did not allow this. Repressions began against the Bolshevik leadership, they issued arrest warrants for the entire leadership, including Lenin, but these lists did not include the true leaders of the uprising, Stalin and Dzerzhinsky, the generals brought them out of attack.

The August Kornilov rebellion is also quite remarkable, Kornilov was a British protege and, with their patronage and support from the Provisional Government, for several months he advanced from Major General to General-General and became Supreme Commander-in-Chief. The British and Masons promoted him to dictators, so that he was under their control and continued the war with Germany.

The army of Krymov was supposed to attack Petrograd, in which there were practically no Russian divisions, but only Don Cossacks and Caucasians, and British officers drove armored cars.

The troops did not reach the capital. There are still ridiculous legends that the Bolsheviks predicted the Cossacks and they refused to go to Petrograd. In fact, Russian generals did not allow the rebellion. On the command of the commander of the Northern Front, General Klembovsky and the chief of staff of the front, General Bonch-Bruyevich, hundreds of trains of the Krymov army were scattered along eight railways and thrown into dense forests without steam locomotives, food, and fodder.

The Kornilov rebellion was suppressed, the conspirators arrested. But in November, the Kornilovites again declared themselves. Head of the General Headquarters General Dukhonin refused to obey the orders of the Soviet government to conclude peace with Germany, freed the arrested generals and raised a rebellion. A special group of the Intelligence Directorate was sent to headquarters, Dukhonin was killed, but the Kornilovites managed to leave for the Don.

Generals Plan


In a situation gathering around Russia and in the presence of a “fifth column” among the generals, a group of generals prepared a secret plan in September with the immediate conclusion of peace with Germany, the demobilization of the decomposed army, the “veil” of 10 corps (half of the officers) being put up against the enemy and the formation new socialist army.

The generals understood that after February the people would not accept their power, only the Soviets could become such a legitimate authority instead of the corrupt regime of the Provisional Government, and they began to assist the Bolsheviks in establishing their control over the Soviets. Through the apparatus of the All-Union Communist Party (Bolsheviks) in September, agitation and pressure began for the convocation of the 2nd Congress of Soviets, which was eventually scheduled for October 20. An armed uprising was also scheduled for this date.

The implementation of the October Revolution


The information that the Bolsheviks will take power on October 20 quickly spread throughout Petrograd, and from October 14 all major newspapers introduced the daily column “To the Bolsheviks' Speech”. In early October, Lenin returned to Petrograd, on October 10 and 16, two meetings of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks took place, at which its members opposed the coup and seizure of power, and Kamenev and Zinoviev published a well-known article that they were against an armed uprising. To dissociate itself from the Bolsheviks and this date, the All-Russian Central Executive Committee of the Soviets postponed the congress to October 25.

The Minister of War, General Verkhovsky, who was in a conspiracy, tried on October 21 to convince the Provisional Government of the immediate start of peace talks with Germany, in response he was dismissed from this post. On the same day, at the meeting of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks (b), a Practical Center was created to lead the uprising, headed by Stalin, Dzerzhinsky and Uritsky. It was decided to start the uprising on October 24 and to transfer the seized power to him by the opening of the Congress of Soviets.

What forces carried out the uprising? According to the canonical version, the uprising was led by the Petrograd Military Revolutionary Committee, headed by Trotsky, who led the revolutionary proletariat with 40 thousand armed Red Guards, who carried out the coup. Here one should immediately answer the question: who are the "Red Guards"?

In late April, the Bolsheviks organized security detachments of the "Labor Guard" and were well paid. These detachments quickly took control of the anarchists and renamed them the "Red Guard."

The main backbone of the "Red Guard" was bandits and thieves, rushing into this organization. They had mandates, a gunshot weapon and robbed with impunity in the city. During the Kornilov rebellion, Kerensky distributed “to the people for the defense of Petrograd” 50 thousand rifles, which were mainly in the hands of the gangster “Red Guards”.

The Military Revolutionary Committee created on October 12 by the Petrosoviet, headed by Trotsky, Podvoisky, Antonov-Ovseenko and Lazimir, of which, apart from Lieutenant Antonov-Ovseenko, was not a military officer, could not lead the coup in principle. A well-organized and bloodless seizure of power could only be organized by trained staff officers. The WRC was a screen behind which the Practical Center, under the leadership and participation of Reconnaissance officers, led the uprising.

Subsequently, these officers participated in the formation of the Red Army, and the head of the Intelligence Directorate, General Potapov, remained the chief of intelligence of the Headquarters of the Red Army. Moreover, none of them was injured even during the period of repression in the 30s, Stalin was able to appreciate the staff.

The Military Revolutionary Committee did not dispose of anything; it was sitting, calling for revolution and calling for the gangster "Red Guard", which instead of capturing the main points of the capital under the guise of revolution, robbed the city and population. After the coup, the Cheka forces had to destroy the prolific detachments of the "Red Guards", who were robbing not only Petrograd, but also its surroundings. The bandits were completely eliminated only by September 1918.

Under the leadership of intelligence officers and Dzerzhinsky, from May to October 1917, militants trained in the forests near Petrograd under the program of professional saboteurs. It was they who, in small groups, together with intelligence saboteurs, captured all the key points of Petrograd on October 24, and the commander of the Petrograd military district, Colonels, who was participating in the conspiracy, reported this to Commander Duhonin only on the morning of October 25, when the coup was already carried out.

Special groups quietly mastered the post office, telegraph, train stations. All of them continued to work, wiretapping and separation of unnecessary conversations were simply introduced, and letters and telegrams were censored. At the train stations, the dispatchers were told which echelons should be sent and where, all this was done by specially trained people.

The main task of the uprising was to prevent the opposition of the 200th garrison of Petrograd. It consisted mainly of reserve and training regiments. The soldiers were laid out, did not want to go to the front, they hated Kerensky and scolded the Bolsheviks, and it was easy to keep them in the barracks. For the wars of the garrison, the rebels used the sailors of the Baltic fleet.

Almost all the senior officers of the Ministry of the Sea and the Baltic Fleet Command took an active part in the uprising. Under their leadership, 12 ships were brought into the Neva, including the cruiser Aurora and the destroyer Samson, which covered the Aurora, which was the reserve headquarters of the uprising.

The Aurora cruiser was being repaired at the factory, orders were given to complete the repair by October 20, load the cruiser with coal, oil, ammunition and bring it to the Neva River near the Winter Palace.

How could all this have been organized by the sailor of “Centrobalt” Dybenko and his “sailor”? Such actions on command were performed by dozens of naval officers and hundreds of sailors, led from a single center.

Where was the headquarters of the uprising? Officially, this is Smolny and the Revolutionary Party, which had nothing to do with the uprising. The headquarters should be inconspicuous so that it cannot be liquidated, possess special means of communication and the ability to quickly evacuate to the reserve command post. Such a premises was provided, this building on Voskresenskaya embankment, which housed the counterintelligence of the Petrograd military district and from where it was possible to quickly transfer to the Aurora by motor boat.

Capture of the Winter Palace


Kerensky on October 24 still believed that he had the faithful troops to suppress the uprising, which he expected from the commander of the Northern Front, General Cheremisov, a participant in the conspiracy, who was not going to send anyone to Petrograd. On the morning of October 25, Kerensky held a meeting with the ministers at the General Headquarters and drove off to meet the troops in the car of the US ambassador and never returned to the city. By noon, the ministers moved to the Winter Palace under the protection of the junkers.

Winter defended loyal to Kerensky troops, Cossacks, cadets and women's battalion. After negotiations, almost all of them left the square and the palace. When it got dark, in anticipation of prey, the Red Guard also pulled itself up, and a nervous, languid skirmish began, from which two people died. Two rounds of Aurora anti-aircraft guns were fired, not to start the assault, but to escalate the situation and influence the defenders of the Winter Palace, the artillery of the Peter and Paul Fortress did not open fire, the gunners took a neutral position.

There was no storming of the palace; Dzerzhinsky’s groups and reconnaissance saboteurs entered the palace through the basement and began to clean it. By one in the morning the palace was completely cleaned up, hundreds of frightened officers and junkers were gathered in the lobby and released. The honorable mission of the arrest of the ministers was assigned to the detachment of the Revolutionary Liberation Forces under the command of Chudnovsky to present them to the Congress of Soviets in confirmation of the deprivation of power and the forwarding of the ministers to the Peter and Paul Fortress. When it was all over and the palace was empty, the "storm" of the Winter Palace began, thousands of brutal "Red Guards" rushed to rob the palace. The new government then had to explain for a long time why the palace was looted.

The establishment of the power of the Bolsheviks


The Congress of Soviets began its meeting at 23 hours on October 25, the Bolsheviks were a minority, the Congress did not recognize their coup, the Mensheviks and Socialist Revolutionaries left the Congress in protest, giving the Bolsheviks the opportunity to adopt the "Decree on Peace" and create their own government.

On the question of ending the war, Lenin and Stalin were in the minority in the Central Committee and the government. Under pressure from the generals, the convocation of the Constituent Assembly was postponed until January 3, hoping by then to conclude a peace treaty, and negotiations began on December 3.

Given the fact that the Bolsheviks in the Constituent Assembly received only a quarter of the vote, on January 3, 1918, they dissolved the meeting and declared Russia the Republic of Soviets.

Foreign Minister Trotsky was sent to sign the peace treaty, who, fulfilling the order of the USA and England, took the position of “neither peace nor war” and did not sign the treaty, holding German troops on the eastern front. He often contacted Lenin, who replied, "We must consult with Stalin," who was in touch with the generals of the General Staff.

In response, the Germans launched an offensive on February 18, there was no one and nothing to defend Russia with, the Germans freely occupied large territories and without a fight took Narva and Pskov. A military delegation led by General Head of the General Headquarters Bonch-Bruyevich met on February 22 with Lenin and Stalin and convinced them to sign the peace on any terms. The world was signed on March 3 on terms three times worse than in December, and on March 4, the Supreme Military Council was established, headed by General Bonch-Bruevich. Trotsky nevertheless achieved the removal of Bonch-Bruyevich on March 19 and took his place himself and from that moment began to extol himself as the leader of the uprising and the creator of the Red Army.

Who created the Red Army


The fable "Trotsky - the creator of the Red Army" is still imposed. Few people think that the Red Army was created not by the wretched politician Bronstein, but by the efforts of dozens of the best generals of the imperial army and more than one hundred thousand military officers who went through two wars and have colossal experience in military construction. Under the leadership of the General Staff generals, it was they who developed mobilization plans, prepared charters for the combat arms, organized the production of weapons, formed military units and armies, staffed them with officers, developed and led combat operations.

We know from history that the Red Army defeated under the leadership of Trotsky, Frunze, Blucher, Budyonny, Chapaev, second lieutenant (Marshal) Tukhachevsky. But where are the glorious names of the Russian generals and officers who created and led the Red Army? Who remembers the generals Selivachev, Gittis, Parsky, Petin, Samoilo, who commanded the fronts of the Red Army? About Admirals Ivanov, Altfater, Behrens. The German, Razvozov, Zarubaev, who led the naval forces and all the fleets of the Republic?

Generals Sheideman, Cheremisov, Tsurikov, Klembovsky, Belkovich, Baluyev, Balanin, Shuvaev, Lechitsky, Sokovnin, Ogorodnikov, Nadezhny, Iskritsky also served in various positions in the Red Army, future generals were trained by General Anshefa Danilov, Gutor, Zay and the headquarters of the Red Army was created by the efforts of the colonels of the General Staff Lebedev, Vatsetis, Shaposhnikov.

In addition to the Soviet leaders of the Red Army, it is worthless to forget the names of the generals and officers of the imperial Russian army, who defended the Fatherland and made a lot of efforts to form the Red Army, which twenty years later collided with the Nazi military machine and broke its ridge.
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  1. Comrade
    Comrade 4 June 2020 05: 00 New
    10
    The direct seizure of power was carried out by patriotic high-ranking generals of the Intelligence Directorate of the General Staff of the Russian Army. There is no direct evidence for this; there is a mass of indirect evidence supporting this version.

    It is possible that examples speak in favor of this version.
    N. M. Potapov (the last head of the Main Directorate of the General Staff of the Russian Empire), while still in the position of assistant to the chief of the General Staff and quartermaster general, in the summer of 1917 offered his services to the Bolshevik Military Organization through a prominent Bolshevik party leader M.S. and later rendered them.
    After the October Revolution, he immediately began to cooperate with the Council of People's Commissars and on November 23, 1917, was appointed chief of the General Staff and manager of the War Ministry. Since December 1917, as the manager of the affairs of the People’s Commissariat. In June-September 1918 he was a member of the Supreme Military Council.
    1. Crowe
      Crowe 4 June 2020 05: 10 New
      25
      Comrade, for more than a century, Lenin called the principle "the upper classes cannot, the lower classes do not want" in his work Mayevka of the Revolutionary Proletariat, which was published back in 1913. Let me just cite a couple of quotations ...
      "For a revolution it is not enough that the lower classes do not want to live as before. It also requires that the upper classes cannot manage and govern as before."
      "Only when the 'lower classes' do not want the old and when the 'upper classes' cannot in the old way, only then can the revolution win."
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 4 June 2020 15: 40 New
        +2
        There is no arguing with Lenin.
      2. Astra wild
        Astra wild 4 June 2020 17: 14 New
        -2
        Let me ask, what does Lenin's words have to do with this nonsense? In another way, I can not characterize this article.
    2. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 4 June 2020 05: 30 New
      25
      The generals understood that the country was falling apart and it was urgent to take measures to remove the protégés of England and France from power
      True patriots of the motherland. And it's not about the ranks ...
      1. Basil50
        Basil50 4 June 2020 06: 37 New
        21
        anklu
        You're right. And among the generals and among the nobles there were patriots of RUSSIA. They remembered about their roots, remembered that they were RUSSIAN. It was they who defended RUSSIA from fragmentation and enslavement.
        The RED ARMY was created and then officers of the former tsarist army served in it. The development plan of SOVIET RUSSIA was developed by engineers who also served their homeland. We know about this and remember.
        But we also remember those who served as interventionists, and then served the Nazis-Japanese.
        1. Pravodel
          Pravodel 4 June 2020 07: 04 New
          32
          It is a pity that no such generals were found in the 90s, and the power in Russia after the collapse of the USSR went to Yelkin and his brotherhood - a gang that plundered and ruined Russia, who it was, people remember well ...
          1. Glory1974
            Glory1974 4 June 2020 09: 28 New
            15
            It’s a pity that in the 90s there were no such generals, and after the collapse of the USSR, power in Russia went to Yelkin and his brethren - the gang that plundered and ruined Russia,

            there were such people. They just don’t talk about them, the time has not come yet.
            But someday we will learn about the purges of the army after August 91, when officers were dismissed for supporting the GKChP, about those who refused to shoot the parliament in 93, about those who were withdrawing troops on the city square in protest against the Yeltsin’s government.
            So far, only the names of Colonel Kvachkov and General Rokhlin, well, and several others have been heard.
            1. pmkemcity
              pmkemcity 4 June 2020 11: 10 New
              +1
              It seems to be Eremenko A.P. showed political foresight ...
              Quote: glory1974
              So far, only the names of Colonel Kvachkov and General Rokhlin, well, and several others have been heard.
            2. Astra wild
              Astra wild 4 June 2020 17: 18 New
              +5
              As far as I remember: Kvachkov did not withdraw troops to the square and General Rokhlin did not show himself in August 1991 either
            3. vlad106
              vlad106 5 June 2020 10: 31 New
              +2
              Quote: glory1974


              Quote: glory1974
              It’s a pity that in the 90s there were no such generals, and after the collapse of the USSR, power in Russia went to Yelkin and his brethren - the gang that plundered and ruined Russia,

              there were such people. They just don’t talk about them, the time has not come yet.
              But someday we will learn about the purges of the army after August 91, when officers were dismissed for supporting the GKChP, about those who refused to shoot the parliament in 93, about those who were withdrawing troops on the city square in protest against the Yeltsin’s government.
              So far, only the names of Colonel Kvachkov and General Rokhlin, well, and several others have been heard.


              It’s a pity for our country.
              how many people lost in post-revolutionary times, civilian,
              as well as during the perestroika years and the years after the collapse of the USSR.
              First, they ruined Russia under the pretext of improving life by fighting capitalism.
              and then they destroyed the USSR and Socialism with the words communism-socialism is utopia, but now we will build capitalism and live ...
              How many millions of Russian people died.
              and in the first case and in the second behind this whole bacchanalia the ears of one tribe stick out
          2. Stas157
            Stas157 4 June 2020 12: 33 New
            +5
            Quote: The Truth
            What a pity that in the 90s there were no such generals, and power in Russia after the collapse of the USSR went to Yelkin

            How was it not found? There were a lot of them. Just could not. Yazov, Kryuchkov, Makashov, Varennikov, Rutskoi ... We simply don’t know many. Rokhlin even paid for it with his life.
          3. BAI
            BAI 4 June 2020 13: 53 New
            +1
            Well, there were Marshalls Yazov, Akhromeev. There were also generals - Rokhlin, the same Rutskoi. Has this changed anything? The army should not and cannot fight with its own people.
          4. boris epstein
            boris epstein 4 June 2020 16: 02 New
            +3
            One of these generals is Army General Valentin Ivanovich Varennikov. After the August coup, he was charged with high treason, the court lasted four years. As a result, Varennikov was first amnestied, then the second stage of the trial, and he was found not guilty and fully acquitted.
            1. Glory1974
              Glory1974 5 June 2020 08: 22 New
              +1
              As a result, Varennikov was first amnestied, then the second stage of the trial, and he was found not guilty and fully acquitted.

              Varennikov refused the amnesty. Said: "If I am guilty, judge me." The court did not find corpus delicti.
          5. IC
            IC 12 June 2020 01: 02 New
            -1
            Would you like to repeat the bloody history of the country under the rule of the Bolsheviks?
            Where is the assurance that they would not be as a victim?
          6. evgeniy.plotnikov.2019mail.ru
            evgeniy.plotnikov.2019mail.ru 12 June 2020 10: 49 New
            0
            It is necessary to clearly understand that everybody needs to know why, there weren’t, in the 90s, such generals.
            The state, the Russian Empire, was the Orthodox Church. Those. the majority of the population had a HEAD ORDER. They knew the MEANING of human life, they knew that the material is secondary, that there are things more important than earthly human life, that without TRUTH and TRUTH, people's lives automatically turn into cattle-like ones.
            Among the prominent figures of Soviet Russia, including the generals of the Red Army, there were a huge number of graduates of theological educational institutions. It must be remembered that the Supreme Commander-in-Chief Generalissimo Stalin I.V. was a graduate of the Gori Theological College. All RI generals naturally studied the Law of God. A person orientated in spiritual matters definitely knows, for example, about the sharply negative attitude of Heaven towards wealth, about the stupidity, ephemerality and futility of serving the wallet.
            The Union collapsed including because he failed to educate the Soviet ELITE. No one was RELIABLE to defend this atheistic state. Millions of siloviks turned out to be EMPTY. Like a weather vane, like, sorry, corrupt girls ... Today he is an uncompromising, communist, with severely shifted eyebrows, and tomorrow he is a smug, market man, with a cunning half smile on his face.
            It is IMPOSSIBLE to educate the elite, the knights of the spirit, without basic fundamental concepts, without knowledge of the BASIS of being.
            There is no big war, there is time. Practice, delve into, teach, educate real officials, before it's too late. But no, they’re asleep, as if m from 100 or more years were measured out on earthly life. Here is a hydrogen sulfide nonsense: (Chipping, total control, the notorious three sixes, pentagrams everywhere and everywhere ...), in Masonic satanic games ,, play ,, - these ,, figures, right here
            1. mark021105
              mark021105 14 June 2020 23: 21 New
              0
              Well??? It was Orthodox, until 1917 the law of God was taught in high schools.
              "They knew the SENSE of human life, they knew that the material is secondary, that there are things more important than earthly human life, that without TRUTH and TRUTH, people's lives automatically turn into an animal-like entity." And what saved Russia from destruction ???
              1. evgeniy.plotnikov.2019mail.ru
                evgeniy.plotnikov.2019mail.ru 15 June 2020 19: 27 New
                0
                The country of Russia, dear mark021105, is still alive and well.
                Precisely because TEACHED and KNEW nobody seriously and saved the rotten state ,, Russian Empire ,,. Heaven is definitely tired of child prostitution, hunger every 5 years, a 12-hour working day for black bone, the killing of millions in the THOSE AND ORGANIZED fratricidal, great, war ... Other, pranks, of this state. What it earned, then it got
                And honest Orthodox rank-and-file officers and generals continued to serve Russia in the ranks of the Armed Forces of another state - the first state in the world (!) A state of workers and peasants
    3. svp67
      svp67 4 June 2020 06: 21 New
      -1
      Quote: Comrade
      It is possible that examples speak in favor of this version.

      By and large, for SUCH deeds "for the benefit of the socialist revolution" these generals should have been either well rewarded or promoted ... But something was not very noticeable, but there is another option ...
      I would have doubted the "Russian patriotism" of these "mythical generals". In the Russian army there was a large layer of officers "not of Russian nationality" .... Germans, Swedes, Poles ... and so on, and so on. But they could help the Bolsheviks in this matter, having received "rewards" and posts in their historical homelands. This is where the stories about the "Finnish rangers" helped in the seizure of Petrograd on October 25, 1917.
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 4 June 2020 15: 50 New
        +1
        Sergey, in the 90s, when it was fashionable to expose everything, I met such information, supposedly Petrograd from captured Krymov Germans. Only then it was claimed that one of the proofs was that Lenin was a German spy, and now new times and a new fashion?
      2. 210ox
        210ox 4 June 2020 16: 17 New
        +1
        The Bolsheviks would never have been able to take power from Strong Power. And it’s easy for the people of Kerch to be worthless. It is quite possible, especially when trying to Kornilov rebellion command of the army and helped. And in the future, no less than half of the officer corps supported the Soviet Government.
    4. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 4 June 2020 06: 29 New
      12
      This version began to be discussed on the network A.I. Fursov how many years ago.
      One of the arguments ---
      .....mail, telegraph, telephone ..... who was at the telegraph? .... workers? ...... telegraph girls? ..... only military officers could provide ......

      I liked the article very much. Thank. The names of the generals are given.
      1. your1970
        your1970 4 June 2020 09: 26 New
        21
        People - awww !!!!!
        Turn on the brain !!!!!
        "The generals organized" .... there are no swear words ....
        Before your very eyes, 1991 was over !!!! Have you even seen one of the organizers of the general ????
        Before your eyes, the 2014 Maidan passed .. there is at least one organizer general lit up ???
        These generals for WWI could barely barely carry out one successful MILITARY operation. They were unable to fight, to do what they had learned all their life !!!
        Kerensky’s power for October, as well as the tsar’s power in February, as well as power in 1991, simply ended stupidly. Nobody wanted to defend it, no one at all.
        That is why the organization of the revolution did not require any extraordinary knowledge and plans. It was quite enough to identify themselves at the level - "tomorrow you are to the telegraph, you are to the station, you are in the printing house."
        I’ll tell you a secret, if in ANY(!!!!) country of the world NOW 20-30 people with rifles / machine guns will come to the station - the railway will be paralyzed for at least a day. And the same with mail and telegraph.
        The author of the article tries to think in terms of war with its thorough preparation - and this does not apply to revolutions in general.
        Rebel Czechoslovak Corps
        having a population of 50 controlled the territory from Penza to Vladivostok - 000 km !!!!
        4 armored train arrived and won ... Azerbaijan !!! as a whole .... 1000 people managed with the country ... easily ..

        All together gives a clear picture of complete anarchy, whoever came with a rifle is power

        A crowd of "organizer generals", aha ....
        1. Stas157
          Stas157 4 June 2020 13: 09 New
          +8
          Quote: your1970
          People - awww !!!!!
          Turn on the brain !!!!!
          "The generals organized" .... there are no swear words ....
          Before your very eyes, 1991 was over !!!! Have you even seen one of the organizers of the general ????
          Before your eyes, the 2014 Maidan passed .. there is at least one organizer general lit up ???
          These generals for WWI could barely barely carry out one successful MILITARY operation. They were unable to fight, to do what they had learned all their life !!!
          Kerensky’s power for October, as well as the power of the king in February, as well as the power in 1991 - simply stupidly ended.

          See how the February Revolution and the abdication of the King took place. Alone general surnames. And in the abdication of the king, the most important role was played by General Alekseev, the chief of staff of the Supreme Commander.

          I am sure there are also those who are dissatisfied with our supreme zero. Only about this they (generals) are unlikely to write in VO.
          1. your1970
            your1970 4 June 2020 13: 44 New
            +6
            Quote: Stas157
            See how the February Revolution and the abdication of the King took place. Some general names. And in the abdication of the king, the most important role was played by General Alekseev, the chief of staff of the Supreme Commander.

            You confuse the king’s betrayal with the generals and the revolution ...
            The traitors-generals simply ceased to be afraid and realized that the power of the king ENDED....
            That the tsar’s power is no longer enough to shoot, it’s quite legitimate by the way, the war is on and this is a direct betrayal, and even to send them to resign ......
            And this is their change, it is natural for that moment and that power ....
            If even the tsar of power had the tsar (and Yanukovych !!!), it would be the same as tanks arrived in 1993, fired 15 shots and it would all end there at that particular moment. Or like on Tiananmen ... .

            But the authorities had already slipped out of their hands and the tsar did not call the convoy to arrest the rebels, and Yanukovych did not give out ammunition to Berkut ...
            And then other people lying under their feet raised power .....
            1. Jager
              Jager 4 June 2020 16: 29 New
              0
              The Maidan was a well-planned operation and the cartridges for Berkut are not a fact that they would have reached even by giving Yanukovych such an order.
              1. your1970
                your1970 4 June 2020 16: 51 New
                +2
                1) The Maidan was slap from what was
                2) the power always ends at that moment - when the ruler realizes that the cartridges may not reach the Berkut. Everything is like in the army - "You either do not give impracticable orders or you achieve their execution by any means."
                The tsar (and Yanukovych) was doomed at that moment - when he began to realize that his orders would not be executed and they were not afraid of him. That in good faith confirmed his own imperial convoy swearing allegiance to the Provisional Government for 3 days
                1. Jager
                  Jager 5 June 2020 14: 02 New
                  -1
                  Snipers, trained militants, coordination, cookies from the bag and compote with drugs were also improvisation?
                  1. your1970
                    your1970 5 June 2020 14: 33 New
                    -1
                    No, maybe not. But it may well be that DA. It all depends on how many people who wanted to take the power lying around under their feet and their financial capabilities ...
                    But the real coordination there didn’t particularly smell in my opinion.
                    It’s just that by this moment Yanukovych was completely uninteresting to anyone who possessed at least some resources. Therefore, he tried to negotiate with the opposition. He understood perfectly that the cartridges would not be given to Berkut even if he gave a written order
                    If he had at least some resources, the Maidan would stand for a couple of days and that’s all .......
                2. georgiigennadievitch
                  georgiigennadievitch 13 June 2020 20: 27 New
                  0
                  The article contains only indirect data and fiction. There are either no facts, or they are “far-fetched.” As for the facts, Tsar Nicholas II was a shortsighted and narrow-minded person. To understand the issue, he was the supreme commander-in-chief who brought his army to the point where that at the moment of the renunciation imposed on him he did not have the strength on which he could rely. For comparison, Borodino. The marshals beg Napoleon-Sir, give us a guard and we will break through the Russian defense. He replied, maybe you will break through, maybe not. But to me stay here with you, thousands of leagues from France? I have not yet lost my mind. How he was right. It was the guard that saved him from captivity and from death in Russia. And what about our autocrat? Before the war he had more than 2 thousand in St. Petersburg alone. Moreover, he, his wife, children, grand dukes were the chiefs of all guards regiments, provided their personnel with all-round material assistance, celebrated regimental holidays together, etc. The guard of that time was loyal to the king and the throne. The army had enough army corps, but he and his general staff managed to lay down all his supporters, the guards in fierce battles in Galicia and finished off in the so-called. After that, the guards regiments in fact became such only in name with officers-raznochin and soldiers from mobilized peasants and were no longer different from other army regiments. If he held the guard at himself and let him into battle only with obvious success, then there would be no coup, either February or October as a consequence of the first, no one would have dared to utter a word, either in spare parts who did not want to fight in St. Petersburg, not at headquarters .. And the course of historical development in Russia, and the world alignments would have been completely different. And so, we have what is, a split between old and new Russia.
          2. vladcub
            vladcub 4 June 2020 16: 21 New
            +2
            "Only about this they (the generals) are unlikely to write on VO", and you know many cases when generals who are dissatisfied with the authorities write in newspapers or on the website: we are such and such not happy with the authorities and tomorrow we will make this authority a kerdyk. Don't be naive.! ANY head of state, if he finds out that he will be a chik tweet tomorrow, will say: while my power, I shake these damned generals out of my pants.
            Remember, if Allenda knew and removed Pinochet in time to get it?
            1. your1970
              your1970 4 June 2020 17: 04 New
              +2
              Quote: vladcub
              Remember, if Allenda knew and removed Pinochet in time to get it?
              - I couldn’t ... coups succeed only when the power has weakened so much that obviously no one will intervene for it ...
              If this happens BEFORE, then such attempts are usually called rebellion, because almost always lose ..
              "The mutiny cannot end in luck.
              Kohl wins - his name is different "(c) I don't remember whose
        2. +5
          +5 4 June 2020 16: 21 New
          -4
          And hto organized? A bunch of Bolsheviks from the Antigentists (gnawing at each other) who arrived in the country a few months before, about which almost no one knew before (at least in comparison with the Socialist Revolutionaries)? Like such awesome James-Bond-popanets? Or a rebellious mouth?

          And for the generals ... "red" generals from the EIV General Staff and aristocrats ... the elite of the country, and "white" - trench ...
        3. Jager
          Jager 4 June 2020 16: 26 New
          -2
          Maidan was also captured by a small group. The main part was either bought or intimidated.
      2. Astra wild
        Astra wild 4 June 2020 17: 24 New
        0
        Reptiloid colleague, do you remember the story: telephone officers did not work at the Central Telegraph Station
    5. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk 4 June 2020 09: 27 New
      15
      Quote: Comrade

      It is possible that examples speak in favor of this version.

      What are some examples, dear? Some generals who do not have a clear organizational structure (like-minded parties) suddenly organize the "October Revolution"?

      So, little by little, just shifting the emphasis, the history is rewritten. No one disputes the participation of the tsarist generals in the command of divisions, armies, fronts, under the supervision of commissars, but the Bolsheviks still played the leading role.

      = The historical significance of the October Revolution (until 1927 even the Bolsheviks called it a coup) is difficult to underestimate, it laid the foundation for the “red project” =
      But what about this? -
      = From the very beginning, the Bolsheviks and their allies called the events of the October Revolution “revolution”. So, at a meeting of the Petrograd Soviet of Workers 'and Soldiers' Deputies on October 25 (November 7), 1917, Lenin uttered his famous: “Comrades! The workers 'and peasants' revolution, the necessity of which the Bolsheviks spoke all the time, was accomplished! ”[5] =
      The rewriting of history on the pages of VO continues.
      Under your stormy applause, gentlemen, users of the site.
  2. Far B
    Far B 4 June 2020 05: 40 New
    16
    The author’s noble conspiracy thesis happened. That is, the generals, the main interests and executors of the revolution, then easily transferred power to the Bolsheviks. Oh, altruism on the march ...
    1. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins 4 June 2020 06: 28 New
      12
      Smells of alternative. Rely on "circumstantial evidence"? Sorry, but this is not a story.
      Moreover, I think in the nineties of the last century, when all the archives were shoved and brought into the world a lot of things that could not be thought of, and I did not read such options!
    2. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 4 June 2020 06: 34 New
      +1
      They did not transmit, but carried out together with the Bolsheviks. And only the top management knew about it.
      Quote: Far In
      The author’s noble conspiracy thesis happened. That is, the generals, the main interests and executors of the revolution, then easily transferred power to the Bolsheviks. Oh, altruism on the march ...
    3. Old tanker
      Old tanker 4 June 2020 07: 03 New
      +7
      I agree. Alexei Isaev in his research claims that the first unsuccessful assault showed the inability of the Red Guards to take the Winter Palace. But by this time the soldiers of the 106th Infantry Division, commanded by the General Staff, Colonel Svechnikov, had already arrived. At one time, personally propagandized Leninvm. It was under his competent guidance that Zimny ​​was taken. Virtually lossless.
  3. Olgovich
    Olgovich 4 June 2020 06: 22 New
    12
    According to the studies of the Russian historian Fursov and the writer Strizhak, under the unconditional political leading role of the Bolshevik party, the direct seizure of power was carried out by patriotic high-ranking generals of the Intelligence Directorate of the General Staff of the Russian Army. There is no direct evidence for this,
    .
    Actually, you can no longer read on.

    But he read the conclusion and fiction.

    This is especially funny. that the Bolsheviks themselves did not publish any of this evidence, although how beneficial it would be for them!

    And ..... there was nothing to publish!

    article abounds with inaccuracies. fiction. earshot facts.
    Minus
    1. Old tanker
      Old tanker 4 June 2020 07: 03 New
      +4
      Absolutely in the hole!
    2. Army soldier2
      Army soldier2 4 June 2020 09: 34 New
      +2
      [quote = Olgovich] [quote] the article is replete with inaccuracies. fiction. earshot facts.
      Minus [/ quote]

      A lot of facts in the article. Did England and France want to weaken Russia? Of course, they wanted Germany and Austria-Hungary to be able to transfer troops to the west. Was Trotsky a protege of England? Of course it was, because England dreamed of a World Revolution. Well, since Bonch-Bruevich’s brothers, it’s definitely gay.
      What is a good site for? Whatever you write, everything is published. A link to at least one document is not comme il faut.
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 4 June 2020 12: 15 New
        11
        Quote: Army 2
        A lot of facts in the article. Did England and France want to weaken Russia? Of course, they wanted Germany and Austria-Hungary to be able to transfer troops to the west. Was Trotsky a protege of England? Of course it was, because England dreamed of a World Revolution. Well, since Bonch-Bruevich’s brothers, it’s definitely gay.

        It goes even funnier there. First, the Masons seized power:
        In early March 1917, after the abdication of the tsar, masons seized power in Russia. The State Duma formed the Provisional Government, which began the collapse of the state and the army.

        But patriotic forces began a struggle with them and turned ... to other Masons (well, we do know the 1917 model for the Bolsheviks wink ).
        Seeing the impending catastrophe, patriotic officers of the General Staff began to look for a force that could prevent the collapse of the country. They settled on the Bolshevik party, which was gaining strength and influence, in addition, there were contacts with the party leadership through a member of the Central Committee of the CPSU (b) Vladimir Bonch-Bruevich and his brother General Mikhail Bonch-Bruevich, chief of staff of the Northern Front.

        And the great struggle of the Masons for the restoration of Russia or the great cycle of Masons in nature began - for the Masons also ruled the Empire. laughing
        1. Jager
          Jager 4 June 2020 16: 34 New
          +2
          The author forgot to mention in the article, in addition to the Masons, also patriotic reptilians. The article is clearly so-so. But we will never know the whole truth. We do not know all the names of Maidan. And to speak about the period of the collapse of the USSR - more than one hundred monographs can be published about this.
        2. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 4 June 2020 18: 09 New
          0
          Quote: Alexey RA
          ........ It goes even funnier there. First, the Masons seized power ......
          But patriotic forces began a struggle with them and turned ... to other Masons (well, we do know the 1917 model for the Bolsheviks wink ).
          Seeing the impending catastrophe, patriotic officers of the General Staff began to look for a force that could prevent the collapse of the country. They settled on the Bolshevik party, which was gaining strength and influence, in addition, there were contacts with the party leadership through a member of the Central Committee of the CPSU (b) Vladimir Bonch-Bruevich and his brother General Mikhail Bonch-Bruevich, chief of staff of the Northern Front.

          And the great struggle of the Masons for the restoration of Russia or the great cycle of Masons in nature began - for the Masons also ruled the Empire. laughing

          Yes, Masons, they are! lol all members of the interim government were Masons. ...... but I am still interested in the behavior of Masons in the history of the formation of the United States, the founding fathers, they were also Masons, presidents, senators ........ Somehow very quickly in historical time a new state appeared and grew and with what plans ......
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 5 June 2020 09: 32 New
            +1
            Quote: Reptiloid
            Yes, Masons, they are!

            Given your nickname, I completely believe you. smile
            1. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 5 June 2020 10: 13 New
              0
              Nick ---- it's a nick! request But the fact that they hide their actions for centuries skillfully enough ----- et yes! hi
    3. ccsr
      ccsr 4 June 2020 12: 25 New
      +1
      Quote: Olgovich
      But he read the conclusion and fiction.

      After all, you know how to properly evaluate the material, even if it concerns the Bolsheviks - maybe they began to see clearly?
      Quote: Olgovich
      article abounds with inaccuracies. fiction. earshot facts.
      Minus

      I agree with you completely. After Catherine the Great and the events on Senate Square, our top military leaders of the Republic of Ingushetia tried not to get into politics, and shunned it in any way, although they themselves were excellent guides to decisions of the highest authorities. So I don’t think that in 1917 all the top military men had an itch to participate in revolutions - they only took part in those events, but not as ideologists of the new revolution. They were only involved, especially since many of them understood how rotten the top was after the February events and sided with the Bolsheviks with their understandable slogans.
      1. boris epstein
        boris epstein 4 June 2020 16: 31 New
        -1
        August 1991 - Alpha refused to storm the barricades on 19 August. Argumentation - unwillingness to participate in politics. Then General Drozdov deeply regretted the decision of that time. In principle, if the PPCHP were led by generals, then the introduction of troops was not required. Define objects according to the principle "post-telephone-telegraph-bridges". Further, for each object, a group of special forces of 20-25 people is allocated. At 4 o'clock in the morning, with towels, linen-changers and folding machine guns, the groups openly walk along the streets - the platoon goes to the bathhouse. Nobody anywhere and nothing would move. Moscow is big. Even two groups are unlikely to be spotted at the same time. The Taman and Kantemirovsk divisions have been deployed in Moscow for immeasurable years. 90% (if not more) of the officers were Muscovites. The enlisted and non-commissioned officers are slightly smaller in percentage terms. Well, would they act like the Chinese in Tian An Men Square? They wouldn't, and they wouldn't really ...
        1. ccsr
          ccsr 4 June 2020 18: 58 New
          +3
          Quote: Boris Epstein
          At 4 o’clock in the morning, with towels, linen, and folding automatic machines, the groups openly walk along the streets, the platoon goes to the bathhouse. Nobody anywhere and nothing would move.

          No need to fantasize, all the more naive. All "Alpha" had less than 200 people, and just physically could not control something in Moscow, tk. this requires a much larger number of troops.
          Quote: Boris Epstein
          The Taman and Kantemirov divisions were deployed in Moscow for several years.

          In fact, they are in the suburbs, and not so close to the capital. And it’s not a fact that after Yazov’s arrest someone would want to take responsibility to give orders on behalf of the Minister of Defense.
          Quote: Boris Epstein
          Well, would they act like the Chinese in Tianan Men? Wouldn’t, and didn’t really ..

          Here I am about the fact that nobody wants to shoot at their people, especially since many in the country opposed the CPSU ..
          https://s.fishki.net/upload/users/2019/04/24/1048097/6a34e03b2de9c77b377a40418450ff35.jpg
          1. ANB
            ANB 5 June 2020 20: 18 New
            0
            . In fact, they are in the suburbs, and not so close to the capital.

            Tamanskaya, the village of Kalininets, on a small concrete. Landmark Golitsino station. Not that far.
            1. ccsr
              ccsr 6 June 2020 12: 18 New
              0
              Quote: ANB
              Tamanskaya, the village of Kalininets, on a small concrete.

              "Small concrete" - 30-40 km from Moscow.
              Quote: ANB
              Not that far.

              Dzerzhinsky’s division is much closer.
              1. ANB
                ANB 6 June 2020 12: 22 New
                0
                Yes, I really did not argue. This was a clarifying comment.
                30-40 km on technology is neither close nor far. Medium. :)
        2. swan49
          swan49 13 August 2020 00: 55 New
          0
          The Tamans and Kantemirovites were never stationed in Moscow. It takes them at least an hour, at best, to get to the city. In August 91, from the Ministry of Defense within the Moscow Ring Road, the largest "army" was a rifle guard brigade, from the Ministry of Internal Affairs - the 23rd brigade of the army militia. The exemplary Sevastopol brigade at that time was listed for the KGB. The rest is a trifle - the commandant's office with an honor guard, units for the educational process of the academies, the naval crew, etc. etc. It is now in the city a division of the Russian Guard of the 8th regimental composition.
  4. Old tanker
    Old tanker 4 June 2020 06: 52 New
    10
    Fursov is also the author of unscientific nonsense, implicated in his own imagination.
    1. Slavs
      Slavs 4 June 2020 09: 06 New
      +3
      Who are the judges?
  5. codetalker
    codetalker 4 June 2020 06: 52 New
    0
    The fact that the General Staff supported the Bolsheviks is no secret. The topic is not very well researched by “official” science, therefore there is a lack of factology and specificity. But to understand the very fact of this information support is enough. An interesting question is: “The Bolsheviks and the General Staff are situational allies?”
    After all, the revolution, which was supposed to destroy Russia completely (February), was prepared and took place within the framework of the "world" revolutionary movement. Understanding the inevitability of this event (given the Tsar’s position on governing the country), could the generals introduce their segment into this movement much earlier than the revolution itself?
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 4 June 2020 07: 35 New
      -1
      Quote: codetalker
      Understanding the inevitability of this event (given the Tsar’s position on governing the country), could the generals introduce their segment into this movement much earlier than the revolution itself?

      Yes, they planned to introduce this same segment - to kill the king.
      General Krymov proposed physically eliminating the tsar, specifically proposing to kill him at a military review.
      After the February Revolution, both Krymov and other liberal generals were simply horrified by what had happened, they all became both participants and victims of a great provocation.
      The article itself did not like, too many inaccuracies.
  6. Cartalon
    Cartalon 4 June 2020 07: 19 New
    +8
    There really is not enough hero of a fellow, in worthless Russian fantasy, there should be a fellow, by which the author means himself.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 4 June 2020 12: 30 New
      +4
      Quote: Cartalon
      There really is not enough hero of a fellow, in worthless Russian fantasy, there should be a fellow, by which the author means himself.

      Yeah ... as well as vodka, women and the great idea of ​​reconciliation between the Bolsheviks and the tsar for the sake of an alliance with Germany - in order to bend the Englishwoman who is forever shitting. smile
  7. knn54
    knn54 4 June 2020 07: 42 New
    +4
    But the Cheka was not created from "scratch." Dzerzhinsky had a number of gendarmerie and police officers in his swing and assistants.
    As usual. The truth is somewhere in the middle.
    Many were "thanked" by Yagoda and Tukhachevsky - "Vesna" / "Guards affair" organized in 1930-1931. In Leningrad alone in May 1931, over a thousand people were shot in this case.
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 4 June 2020 08: 09 New
      -1
      Quote: knn54
      ...... Many were "thanked" by Yagoda and Tukhachevsky - the "Spring" / "Guards case" organized in 1930-1931. In Leningrad alone in May 1931, over a thousand people were shot in this case.
      On this occasion, I met such ---- they say that in the revolution they were situational allies, but then they began to diverge further and further. Apparently, the discrepancy was strong and very out of time. After all, they suggested a war. Therefore about the case ВЕСНА
      not enough information?
    2. your1970
      your1970 5 June 2020 08: 47 New
      +1
      Quote: knn54
      But the Cheka was not created from "scratch." Dzerzhinsky had a number of gendarmerie and police officers in his swing and assistants.

      And were there many of them? One or two? But nothing that there was a direct ban on hiring them, and not even in the Cheka, but in general !!!!
      Dzerzhinsky had many years of experience in the struggle with power. He simply applied his actions in the case of the tsar to a new situation, which allowed him to anticipate the actions of amateurs who opposed the new government
  8. apro
    apro 4 June 2020 07: 47 New
    +3
    So categorically it’s not true. They took part for their own reasons, yes. But to make a revolution is a matter of people extremely interested and able to go all the way for their ideas about the country.
  9. Doctor
    Doctor 4 June 2020 07: 58 New
    +2
    The version is interesting. In her favor, the overwhelming number of Red Army commanders in the Civil War were former tsarist officers.
    1. Glory1974
      Glory1974 4 June 2020 09: 34 New
      +2
      The version is interesting. In her favor, the overwhelming number of Red Army commanders in the Civil War were former tsarist officers.

      Moreover, in 100% of the Red Army units, the chiefs of staff, and therefore the direct organizers of the military service, were tsarist officers. But the White Army, in spite of everything, a lot of civilians appeared in the leadership of the units.
  10. KVU-NSVD
    KVU-NSVD 4 June 2020 08: 00 New
    +2
    Reading is interesting, the logical prerequisites for verbal constructions are clear. Only there is no evidence. Do not consider as such a quote about "other institutions" ... If such a thing had taken place on such a scale, then at least some documents would have been preserved, such a "sewn" would not be hidden in any bag. Although the organizational and planning participation of the military personnel (and not necessarily the Russians) in the preparation of the coup more than I admit.
    1. Hypatius
      Hypatius 4 June 2020 09: 05 New
      -5
      If something like that took place on such a scale, then at least some documents would have survived, you will not hide such a "sewn" in any bag
      The documents were preserved ... in the USA, where Trotsky was allowed to bring several wagons of documents. That's just, consider there is no access to them, even for US presidents.
      1. KVU-NSVD
        KVU-NSVD 4 June 2020 09: 11 New
        +6
        Quote: Hypatius
        That's just, consider there is no access to them, even for US presidents.

        But at the same time "everyone knows" for what is in those documents.?. winked
        1. Hypatius
          Hypatius 4 June 2020 09: 23 New
          -5
          How do they know !? That is where assumptions and indirect facts come into play. As the saying goes: Do you want to believe, but ... Do not check. Dachshund, logic. I think the article is completely true. Perhaps there is little attention to the gendarmes and special services. I see direct analogies of the preparation of special services for the coups in 1917 and 1991, including for a splash of crime.
  11. Undecim
    Undecim 4 June 2020 08: 31 New
    21
    While reading, I thought the next opus of Samsonov, but it turns out that he had competitors.
    The author at least bothered to study the topic properly before creating his own cocktail from the past and fables.
    According to the studies of the Russian historian Fursov and the writer Strizhak, under the unconditional political leading role of the Bolshevik party, the direct seizure of power was carried out by patriotic high-ranking generals of the Intelligence Directorate of the General Staff of the Russian Army
    Such control and such generals did not exist in nature. The General Directorate of the General Staff of Intelligence was engaged in Special Records Management (intelligence and counterintelligence) as part of the Quartermaster General's Division. The Special Records Office staff included a clerk, three of his assistants and a journalist.
    Anshefa General Danilov, Gutor and Zayonchkovsky
    In the Russian Empire, the rank of General-General was abolished by the Statutes of 1796 - 1797. Therefore, at the beginning of the twentieth century, no anshefs existed. There were generals from infantry, generals from cavalry, generals from artillery, engineer generals.
    Under the leadership of intelligence officers and Dzerzhinsky, from May to October 1917, militants trained in the forests near Petrograd under the program of professional saboteurs.
    Such a program did not exist at that time.
    1. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 4 June 2020 08: 53 New
      +7
      So it is honestly said that this is the version of "the historian Fursov and the writer Strizhak". Even those alternative workers.
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 4 June 2020 15: 37 New
        +3
        Still those alternative specialists.

        Sergey, I don’t know who they are (no, don’t get it wrong, I’m just not particularly interested in the alternative, and according to pseudo-histories I had a couple of opus suvorov-rezun and one book of Radzinsky), but I agree with this statement of the esteemed Viktor Nikolayevich (Undecim):
        While reading, I thought the next opus of Samsonov, but it turns out that he had competitors.

        Nothing to add! With respect to all, including to the site administration. hi
        1. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 4 June 2020 18: 09 New
          +4
          Thinking tsarist generals, of course, were the same Samoilo or Bonch-Bruevich, but denying the known facts of the propaganda of Krasnov’s troops was childish. The war at that time was completely awful ... tired, in general. In the summer of 1917, Kerensky appointed Brusilov as Army Commander, he again imposed the death penalty for failure to comply with the order, but did not help, after which Brusilov resigned. The ideal of the state system for which the troops led to Peter Krasnov was, to put it mildly, very unpopular. Therefore, it was possible to propagate parts of it, and not at all because trains with troops were driven somewhere into the forest. The author wants popularity, but overthrowing historical facts, he makes himself popularity like Rezun and Radzinsky, perhaps not wanting it.
    2. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 4 June 2020 15: 50 New
      +3
      in a few months he moved from major general to general-anshefa

      gross error. For the historian - unforgivable.
    3. vladcub
      vladcub 4 June 2020 16: 40 New
      +3
      V. N, I, too, when I read that thought, why did Samsonov forget the "evil matrix"? But an error, it turns out that Samsonov's ideas have successors?
      What next material will the author prepare: "How did Platov or Dumenko help Chingiz Khan?"
    4. vladcub
      vladcub 4 June 2020 20: 33 New
      +2
      "Such a program did not exist at that time," but the author does exist
    5. Okolotochny
      Okolotochny 5 June 2020 12: 51 New
      +1
      Anshef also cut his eyes, thought right after "Catherine's Eagles".
  12. parusnik
    parusnik 4 June 2020 08: 48 New
    +9
    There are a lot of questions to the article ... an owl on the globe ...
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 4 June 2020 09: 07 New
      +1
      Quote: parusnik
      There are a lot of questions to the article ... an owl on the globe ...

      good morning Alexey hi I really hope that you ask these questions, how will you have time for this?
      1. parusnik
        parusnik 4 June 2020 12: 38 New
        +2
        Dmitry, good afternoon! hi ..You have to stir up the whole article .. I already read about the versions that the Germans and the Finns took Zimny, now here’s some notorious special forces and stuff, etc. .. Link to Lenin, what is taken out of context is striking .. .On the July demonstration .. By the way, when the Minister of War of BP was dismissed, he left Petrograd altogether ... And so on.
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 4 June 2020 13: 12 New
          +2
          Thank you, Alexey! For the answer.
          You understand that, I was always surprised at how this revolution took place in Petrograd and how the future happened. Also remember the First Russian Revolution, how many died those who protested and in general, how it was.
          Therefore, I admit the possibility that there was support from specialists.
          Documents, periodicals, literature were destroyed, seized significantly. Right now sometimes publications come out 100 years ago. So something else may appear.
          1. parusnik
            parusnik 4 June 2020 14: 10 New
            +2
            Also remember the First Russian Revolution
            ... If you recall her, then there were officers who went over to the side of the workers and peasants, but there were very few of them .. Very .. During the October Revolution there were more of them .. But this does not mean that the generals committed and organized the October revolution ... If, according to Fursov et al., they carried out and organized it using the masses, therefore they had a fairly strong and well-conspired organization. And with such a left-wing organization, nothing prevented them from subsequently displacing the Lenin government. . But the most important thing about the existence of such an organization is not any documents, but in theory they should be .. Only indirect evidence is not evidence because they are surrounded by speculation, as anyone likes.
            1. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 4 June 2020 15: 26 New
              +2
              Thanks for the clarification, Alex hi According to the plots on the network of A.I. Fursov, it turns out that the military chose the most promising party for Russia, chose the Bolsheviks and joined them. But keeping everything a secret.
              And about the lack of documents ..... the poet Bezymensky wrote a poem in the 20s KOMSOMOLIA, which was published in about a million copies over 10 years, several editions. After which it was banned, seized, destroyed due to Trotsky's introduction. ....
              And they did not remember and did not know for almost 100 years. And this is not a document, but almost a million books, about 50 pages. Although the author himself was not exposed.
              In general, let's see what the new opens .....
            2. ANB
              ANB 5 June 2020 20: 29 New
              +1
              . But the most important thing about the existence of such an organization is not any documents, but in theory they should be .. Only indirect evidence is not evidence, because they are surrounded by speculation, as you like.

              Documents on some events and operations, we may never receive.
              Most of the documents of the security department of the Republic of Ingushetia were destroyed. I doubt that we will ever get open access to all GRU documentation. Even the Soviet period.
              We also do not know the exact reasons with the documents for which Yeltsin gave power to Putin. And not the fact that we find out.
              I'm neutral for the article. An interesting hypothesis that can neither be proved nor disproved by documents.
  13. Andrey Krasnoyarsky
    Andrey Krasnoyarsky 4 June 2020 09: 00 New
    +5
    The arguments of the author are not convincing, because they are built on the principle "if we do not know how it really was, then it was the way I thought it up." The result was another pseudo-historical myth about the generals who committed the October Revolution, the sinister and stupid Trotsky, who for some unknown reason was appointed by Lenin as the head of the Revolutionary Military Council of the RSFSR, as well as about some "saboteurs" who captured the Winter Palace, and at the same time probably the whole of Petrograd. Of course, Winter stormed in a completely different way, as shown in the film "Lenin in October", but the author replaced the Soviet myth with his own.
    1. sanya
      sanya 4 June 2020 10: 30 New
      -5
      The author defends the Soviet myth as best he can ... Because the truth looks completely shameful for the Communists
      In fact, everything was just the operations carried out by German generals and specialists, and the so-called “Latvian arrows” were nothing more than German PMCs
      1. Andrey Krasnoyarsky
        Andrey Krasnoyarsky 4 June 2020 11: 01 New
        +4
        Only here is no evidence that the operations were carried out by German generals, there is no and is hardly foreseen due to the frank delusionality of this version. The story is reconstructed based on an analysis of real and reliable sources, not speculation and rumors. If it's a story, not propaganda.
  14. Octopus
    Octopus 4 June 2020 09: 01 New
    11
    Oh my God.

    It turns out that after Samsonov, further development is possible.

    Now the tsarist gebnya saved Russia from the Entente. Fine, wonderful.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 4 June 2020 12: 32 New
      +4
      Quote: Octopus
      Now the tsarist gebnya saved Russia from the Entente.

      And from the Masons - and with the help of other Masons. laughing
  15. Sergey S.
    Sergey S. 4 June 2020 09: 05 New
    +8
    The main backbone of the "Red Guard" was bandits and thieves, rushing into this organization.

    To refute frank nonsense is both simple and difficult.
    It is difficult, because he himself has to operate with absurdities and filth.
    It’s easy, because everything is clear to a normal person.
    But the abomination that the "Red Guard" were bandits and thieves is beyond scientific decency. And it's not about my respectful attitude towards the old Bolsheviks.
    The fact is that the underworld has developed its own laws for the "education" of bandits and thieves over the millennium. These people, with their rejection of everything that is connected with the state and society, are incapable of systematic organized actions without an almost instantaneous egoistic result.
    They could rob, but they could not guard strategically important objects.
    But actually, the above quote is an ugly spit in the Great Past of the Great Country.
    A well-organized and bloodless seizure of power could only be organized by trained staff officers. The WRC was a screen behind which the Practical Center, under the leadership and participation of Reconnaissance officers, led the uprising.

    Finally, everything became clear!
    Namely, where did the honest highly educated talented ... leaders of the Russian imperial army go. We used to think that Budyonny and Chapaev drove these lackeys like they were preschool until they kicked out ...
    But no!
    It turns out that the tsarist generals created the Great October Socialist Revolution !!!
    The fact that some of the top officers remained with the people does them honor. But for them to conceive and carry out a revolution, this is already too ... Too much honor!
    1. sanya
      sanya 4 June 2020 10: 26 New
      -8
      German spy Lenin received not only money for the revolution but also very serious power support
      And the author of this opus is trying to blame this case on some royal generals
      1. Sergey S.
        Sergey S. 4 June 2020 10: 47 New
        +6
        Quote: sanya
        German spy Lenin

        Is it installed ???
        Lenin studied as a scout or saboteur?
        Is there a task he received from the German General Staff?
        There’s nothing to shake the air.
        For at the same time the same processes took place in Germany.
        Karl Liebknecht and Rosa Luxemburg are also someone else's agents?
        After the First World War in Spain and France, the government was led by socialists - what kind of intelligence did they reign in?

        Quote: sanya
        received not only money for the revolution but also very serious power support

        It was difficult with Ijich. Here neither prove nor deny ...
        money doesn’t smell.
        But with regard to the serious force support from Germany, I would very much like to understand where this thought comes from?
        I guess from the black-and-yellow press ...
        So I’ll tell you more - the empress was confused with Rasputin, the emperor was replaced by an Englishman, and in general the Russians live in Hyperborea, and the whole story was invented ... you thought correctly ...
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 4 June 2020 13: 21 New
          +6
          Lenin was no German spy. Otherwise, with German punctuality, when everything is always preserved, they would have some paper evidence.
          And later, as they attacked the USSR, they would begin to speculate in such a thing.
          There’s nothing to lie about Lenin,
        2. Constructor68
          Constructor68 4 June 2020 14: 10 New
          -4
          Is it installed ???
          Lenin studied as a scout or saboteur?

          Maybe there was no well-known telegram from the head of the German intelligence service about Lenin: "Lenin's arrival in Russia is successful. He works the way we wanted it."
          You commies, already rush with the halo of this executioner and the traitor of Russia ashamed
          It was difficult with Ijich. Here neither prove nor deny ...
          money doesn’t smell.

          Everything he had was good with money. The murderer before the revolution was still one of the main inspirers of robberies and robberies. This was called expropriation. Even in the Central Committee of the RSDLP, Lenin and his inner circle were called criminals
          1. Sergey S.
            Sergey S. 4 June 2020 14: 17 New
            +1
            Quote: Designer 68
            Maybe there was no well-known telegram from the head of the German intelligence service about Lenin: "Lenin's arrival in Russia is successful. He works the way we wanted it."
            You commies already ashamed with the halo of this executioner and traitor of Russia ashamed

            I’ll go give a telegram that Constructor 68 organized ISIS cells and the whole Alkaida in Antarctica ...
            And what, after that, to urgently add you to the textbooks of history and political science?
            About these sources of information you have ...
            1. Constructor68
              Constructor68 4 June 2020 14: 25 New
              -3
              I’ll go give a telegram that Constructor 68 organized ISIS cells and the whole Alkaida in Antarctica ...

              Excuse is cheap, as well as, in principle, your entire communist ideology. Which is based on the cult of personality murderer and executioner
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 4 June 2020 14: 27 New
                +1
                Quote: Designer 68
                . Which is based on the cult of personality murderer and executioner

                Who are you talking about?
                1. Constructor68
                  Constructor68 4 June 2020 14: 32 New
                  0
                  And what, a lot of options?
              2. Sergey S.
                Sergey S. 4 June 2020 15: 19 New
                +1
                Quote: Designer 68
                Excuse is cheap, as well as, in principle, your entire communist ideology. Which is based on the cult of personality murderer and executioner

                The method is cheap, that's right.
                But demonstrated to show. by what methods they dishonor the unwanted.
                Murderers and executioners are in any form of state organization.
                Communism in this case is no exception.
                The capitalist formation has significantly greater reasons for the involvement of murderers and executioners of various stripes, from Cromwell to Zelensky and Trump ..
                1. Constructor68
                  Constructor68 4 June 2020 16: 58 New
                  -3
                  The method is cheap, that's right. But demonstrated to show. by what methods they dishonor the unwanted.

                  The method only shows the stupidity of the demonstrator himself. Because you are not the head of German intelligence and your attempt to give a telegram to the German Foreign Ministry will make no more sense than the comments here.
                  Murderers and executioners are in any form of state organization.
                  Communism in this case is no exception.

                  A fucking excuse for a personality cult. Type you think that he is an executioner, but others were no better ... You are directly a telling example of the perverted pseudology of communist ideology.
                  1. Sergey S.
                    Sergey S. 4 June 2020 17: 13 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Designer 68
                    A fucking excuse for a personality cult. Type you think that he is an executioner, but others were no better ... You are directly a telling example of the perverted pseudology of communist ideology.

                    This is a matter of taste and education.
                    For example, I believe that the homeland is being destroyed by uncultured, poorly educated louts who prefer soft-skinned, illiterate, indifferent leaders, and who have primitive, silly answers in all life conflicts.
                    And with criticism of the communist ideology, you would be careful. If she is so fierce, what will you do very soon when the Chinese Communists establish the world order?
                    Or, nevertheless, the Communists are not scared, but scared that for a decent life, you need to work a lot specifically in the field of real production,
                    1. Constructor68
                      Constructor68 4 June 2020 17: 45 New
                      -4
                      What are you pulling all sorts of nonsense into the discussion? What does the significance of Lenin (and his ideology) in the history of Russia and what are some Chinese Communists? What side is this? Let's pull up the liquid reptiloid as an argument. Then finally slide into nevminos.
                      By the way, both China and Vietnam received economic development only when they introduced the capitalist approach into the communist ideology.
                      1. Sergey S.
                        Sergey S. 4 June 2020 19: 31 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Designer 68
                        What does the significance of Lenin (and his ideology) in the history of Russia?

                        We are discussing the problem of the creators of the Great October Socialist Revolution.
                        If there are citizens who believe that V.I. Lenin has no significance in this matter, that’s all ... arrived ... we were in the Mesozoic among pterodactyls and guanaco ...

                        And yet, why do you dislike the main principle of socialism: From each according to his ability - to each according to his work.
                        And doesn’t you want to live under communism, when people will be guided by the principle of each according to his ability - each according to his needs?
                      2. ser56
                        ser56 4 June 2020 21: 22 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Sergey S.
                        And yet, why do you dislike the main principle of socialism: From each according to his ability - to each according to his work.

                        this is the principle of capitalism ... request
                        Quote: Sergey S.
                        And doesn’t you want to live under communism, when people will be guided by the principle of each according to his ability - each according to his needs?

                        and this is nonsense for nerds ... request
                      3. Sergey S.
                        Sergey S. 4 June 2020 21: 29 New
                        +2
                        Quote: ser56
                        Itata: Sergey S.
                        And yet, why do you dislike the main principle of socialism: From each according to his ability - to each according to his work.

                        this is the principle of capitalism ...

                        No.
                        The main principle of capitalism: Extraction of surplus value for personal use (exploitation).
                      4. ser56
                        ser56 4 June 2020 21: 31 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Sergey S.
                        The main principle of capitalism: Extraction of surplus value for personal use (exploitation).

                        Seriously? laughing Well, how does surplus value arise when creating any engineering structure? hi Does the engineer take this value from the draftsmen? repeat
                      5. Hantengri
                        Hantengri 4 June 2020 21: 48 New
                        -1
                        Quote: ser56
                        Seriously? Well, how does surplus value arise when creating any engineering structure? Does the engineer take this value from the draftsmen?

                        No. The entrepreneur, whom the engineer works for, gets it from the engineer, and from the draftsmen, and from other employees of the design bureau, including a cleaner.
                      6. ser56
                        ser56 4 June 2020 21: 59 New
                        +1
                        Quote: HanTengri
                        No. The entrepreneur, whom the engineer works for, gets it from the engineer, and from the draftsmen, and from other employees of the design bureau, including a cleaner.

                        and if the entrepreneur and engineer are in one person? bully An engineer invented and patented a device, sold and received royalties - became a capitalist? Exploiter? laughing
                        and how to evaluate the goods of the cleaning lady? bully
                      7. Hantengri
                        Hantengri 4 June 2020 22: 05 New
                        0
                        Quote: ser56
                        and if the entrepreneur and engineer are in one person?

                        So he shoes the surplus value of the employees of his design bureau, if he has one. If KB is absent, then it simply does not receive IP and surplus value.
                      8. ser56
                        ser56 4 June 2020 22: 13 New
                        -1
                        Quote: HanTengri
                        So he shoes the surplus value of the employees of his design bureau,

                        what nonsense ... he came up with, they are technical performers - the same is your cleaner ... he is their breadwinner ... request

                        Quote: HanTengri
                        then it’s just IP and does not receive surplus value.

                        it's like - a product project made and sold ... hi
                  2. Hantengri
                    Hantengri 4 June 2020 22: 00 New
                    +2
                    And it turns out (roughly) like this: The Entrepreneur receives 100500 MNT from the Customer for creating an engineering structure. 500 tugriks pays to the collective of his design bureau, and 100000 tugriks puts in his pocket. this is surplus value.
                  3. ser56
                    ser56 4 June 2020 22: 14 New
                    -1
                    Quote: HanTengri
                    this is surplus value.

                    what nonsense - i.e. those performers who sit out of their pants create surplus value, but the one who invented does not? bully
          2. Sergey S.
            Sergey S. 4 June 2020 21: 40 New
            +2
            Quote: ser56
            Quote: Sergey S.
            And doesn’t you want to live under communism, when people will be guided by the principle of each according to his ability - each according to his needs?

            and this is nonsense for nerds ...

            I am very sorry for you.
            Communism is not stupid, it is a way of life for families and individual, usually small, groups.
            When parents work hard for the sake of their children, is it not communism?
            And as in the most difficult time - the first post-war years - distant and near relatives, neighbors and workmates helped each other ...
            I am a native of Leningrad, and I know what I am writing about.
            Not all were ideals of virtue, but I know from childhood that the holy silver pieces live among us. And they are worthy of living under communism.
          3. ser56
            ser56 4 June 2020 21: 50 New
            -1
            Quote: Sergey S.
            I am very sorry for you.

            Thank you, mutually ... but unlike you, I passed Marxism perfectly ... bully
            Quote: Sergey S.
            it is a way of life for families and individual, usually small, groups.
            what illiterate nonsense ... bully
            Quote: Sergey S.
            When parents work hard for the sake of their children, is it not communism?

            1) it is a clan-communal system hi
            2) Communism denies the family as an institution - see primary sources ... hi
            Quote: Sergey S.
            distant and close relatives, neighbors and workmates helped each other ...

            but they didn’t help with the king, and now they don’t help? hi
            Quote: Sergey S.
            And they are worthy of living under communism.

            don't you feel sorry for them? the ideal of communism - GULAG - labor armies ... request
          4. Sergey S.
            Sergey S. 4 June 2020 22: 35 New
            +1
            Quote: ser56
            this is a clan-community system

            If you studied Marxism and philosophy, you understand that there was tribal-tribal (or rather primitive) communism, there will be a more developed communism of the theological society in a new round.
            The spiral of history has not yet been canceled.
          5. ser56
            ser56 5 June 2020 13: 06 New
            -1
            Quote: Sergey S.
            more precisely primitive) communism,

            what nonsense ... bully There was a strong right - for the first time men ate ...
        3. Sergey S.
          Sergey S. 4 June 2020 22: 38 New
          +1
          Quote: ser56
          ideal of communism - Gulag - labor armies

          I do not want to respond rudely.
          There is Love, but there are sadists.
          You do not say that the ideal of Love is sadism? Although there is ...
        4. ser56
          ser56 5 June 2020 13: 07 New
          -2
          Quote: Sergey S.
          I do not want to respond rudely

          Have you ever read the Communist Party Manifesto? Karl and Frederick? There it is written DIRECTLY ... request
          Quote: Sergey S.
          You do not say that the ideal of Love is sadism?

          I say that you do not read specialized literature on communism ... bully
  16. Constructor68
    Constructor68 5 June 2020 05: 31 New
    -3
    If there are citizens who believe that V.I. Lenin has no significance in this matter, that means everything ... arrived ...

    I personally discussed with you the likelihood that Kaiser Germany was behind Lenin's back. And you are conducting a dialogue like a lady with low social responsibility - sometimes you drag the Chinese, then the principle "from each according to his ability." I am well aware of the ability of former party leaders to evade answering and foul the opponents' brains with verbal crackpots - do not play a clown out of yourself here. I pointed out to you specifically that Lenin was sponsored and supported by Germany. And the fact that even before the revolution Lenin was known in party circles as the organizer and inspirer of murders, robberies and robberies is indicated to you specifically. I'm not even talking about his role in the events of post-revolutionary Russia. Instead of answering this, I heard from you the usual nonsense, which I heard from school as early as 40 years ago
  17. Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 5 June 2020 05: 44 New
    -3
    Quote: Designer 68
    And the fact that even before the revolution, Lenin was known in party circles as the organizer and inspirer of murders, robberies and robbery, was specifically indicated to you.

    I once read in the newspaper "Top Secret" that Trotsky had Lenin that and that ... He had, in general.
  18. Constructor68
    Constructor68 5 June 2020 05: 57 New
    -2
    Trotsky Lenin of that syag ... Had, in general

    I look at you it caused unhealthy fantasies, so much so that you still don’t get around
  19. Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 5 June 2020 06: 00 New
    +1
    Quote: Designer 68
    I look at you it caused unhealthy fantasies, so much so that you still don’t get around

    It has been a long time ago. As I read Orlov. The same type. He threw it, it became already disgusting.
  • ser56
    ser56 4 June 2020 21: 21 New
    -1
    Quote: Sergey S.
    Murderers and executioners are in any form of state organization.

    but somehow in RI for all the time they executed for politics less (25 000) than in the USSR in the 30s they executed for the year ... request
    1. Sergey S.
      Sergey S. 5 June 2020 00: 34 New
      +2
      Quote: ser56
      but somehow in RI for all the time they executed for politics less (25 000) than in the USSR in the 30s they executed for the year ...

      You tell the peasants ...
      Or read Leskov.
      Or Gorky, or Melnikov-Pechora ...
      Or did pre-revolutionary Russian writers also lie under the leadership of the Bolsheviks?
      1. Constructor68
        Constructor68 5 June 2020 05: 42 New
        -2
        You tell the peasants ...
        Or read Leskov.

        What peasants? Tell us directly and honestly (if you are capable of such a thing) - how many prisoners were in prison in RI in the 20th century, how many death sentences were there. And then give the same figures for the 30s in the USSR. And how do you, balabol, turn your tongue to compare the proceedings in the Republic of Ingushetia and the notorious sentences of "triplets"?
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 5 June 2020 05: 49 New
          +1
          Quote: Designer 68
          And how do you, balabol, turn your tongue to compare the proceedings in the Republic of Ingushetia and the notorious sentences of "triplets"?

          Are you talking about the Stolypin Troika or something?
        2. Constructor68
          Constructor68 5 June 2020 05: 54 New
          -3
          The Stolypin triples (military courts) were introduced when declaring martial law and covered a period of only a year. In total, there were no more than 500 executed emnip. Put = = with NKVD triples? Have you completely lost your conscience?
        3. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 5 June 2020 05: 57 New
          +2
          Quote: Designer 68
          In total, there were no more than 500 executed emnip.

          Figures. No documents were produced on them, unlike the NKVD.
          Quote: Designer 68
          Have you completely lost your conscience?

          I have it.
        4. Constructor68
          Constructor68 5 June 2020 06: 03 New
          -3
          Figures. Documents on them did not produce, unlike the NKVD

          Brad.
          I have it.

          Where do you have it?
        5. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 5 June 2020 06: 10 New
          +1
          Quote: Designer 68
          Brad.

          Nonsense, you say? I read books by revolutionaries published in the 60s. It described very well how the peasants returned from the Stolypin reforms. Does a phrase like "Stolypin carriage" tell you anything?
        6. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 5 June 2020 10: 33 New
          +1
          И Stolypin car и Stolypin tie !!!!!!! Already how many interlocutors and photos printed! Stolypin affairs!
          For this there were attempts! The Russian people hated him! Where were those who had to go to the city to live? Where would they live? Stolypin did not think about it, Sleep in shifts at the workbench, do not start a family. And if suddenly a family, then several working families with children settled in one rented room. That's the way it is, Vladimir! Now what? It turns out there are no heroic personalities among that leadership! So we started to create a "light image" out of it in the absence of.
        7. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 5 June 2020 10: 37 New
          -1
          Quote: Reptiloid
          And if suddenly a family, then several working families with children settled in one rented room.

          This is well written by Uncle Gilyay.
        8. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 5 June 2020 11: 11 New
          0
          Quote: mordvin xnumx
          ...... This is well written by Uncle Gilyay.
          A.F. Koni also has something about the lives of workers in St. Petersburg, and he described court cases, but a lot of things about that life fell into the frame ...
        9. ser56
          ser56 5 June 2020 13: 12 New
          -2
          Quote: Reptiloid
          there is also something about the life of workers in St. Petersburg

          and read about the lives of workers in the 30s at defense plants .... request laid out even on the site ...
        10. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 5 June 2020 13: 31 New
          0
          Quote: ser56
          and read about the lives of workers in the 30s at defense plants ....

          My grandmother worked there. So ... injected, yes. And after the war, she scored, and generally stopped working.
        11. ser56
          ser56 5 June 2020 13: 37 New
          -2
          Quote: Mordvin 3
          Injected, yes.

          that’s okay ... to work like that, I mean the conditions of work and life, the quality of food, clothes, etc.
          Under the tsar, it was only among the low-skilled ones, and that was the first time ... If I didn’t drink too much and didn’t live normally - see the memoirs of the NSC — I was a locksmith ...
        12. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 5 June 2020 13: 41 New
          +1
          Quote: ser56
          I'm talking about the conditions of work and life, the quality of food, clothing, etc.

          Good. After captivity, my grandfather was sent to work as a miner. The coal basin near Moscow. He worked, the grandmother did not work at all after the war. They had enough money.
        13. ser56
          ser56 5 June 2020 13: 47 New
          0
          Quote: Mordvin 3
          exiled to work as a miner

          the miners at the temporary detention center received a lot, my father-in-law was a miner, he told me ... they cut it off at the NSC ...
        14. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 5 June 2020 13: 54 New
          +2
          Quote: ser56
          the miners at the temporary detention center received a lot, my father-in-law was a miner, he told me ... they cut it off at the NSC ...

          He received decently. Enough of three children and a grandmother. There were more goats, milk was sold at a state price, 28 kopecks per liter. My father’s grandfather also fooled around, guarded the flowers, I remember how he poured out a fraction, and loaded cartridges with salt. And after all, he had 5 children to raise.
  • Okolotochny
    Okolotochny 5 June 2020 12: 58 New
    0
    And the Stolypin car

    Dima, stop sculpting alternative, Stolypin carriage - the carriages were equipped to transport peasants (families, utensils, cattle) to undeveloped lands. After the death of P.A. Stolypin they were converted to transport prisoners. I already told you that first understand the issue (without alternative psvedo-historians), and then give out your speculation.
  • Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 5 June 2020 13: 32 New
    +1
    Quote: Okolotochny
    After the death of P.A. Stolypin they were converted to transport prisoners.

    Oh, who would sculpt a humpback. wink
  • Okolotochny
    Okolotochny 5 June 2020 15: 49 New
    -3
    Oh, who would sculpt a humpback.

    Little Johnny, I'm not a pseudo-historian and not a pseudo-communist to "mold a hunchback." Read on the internet for "Stolypin wagons". You have no facts, like the Reptilian, only emotions.
    In Soviet times, there was a substitution of concepts and cars for transporting prisoners began to be called "Stolypin". Although the real Stolypin cars had nothing to do with the transportation of prisoners. Alexander Solzhenitsyn in his novel “The Gulag Archipelago” wrote about the Stolypin carriage: “The history of the carriage is as follows. Indeed, he went on rails for the first time under Stolypin: it was designed in 1908, but for immigrants to the eastern parts of the country, when a strong resettlement movement developed and there was not enough rolling stock. This type of carriage was lower than the usual passenger one, but much higher than the freight one, it had utility rooms for utensils or poultry (the current “half” compartments, punishment cells) - but it, of course, had no bars, either inside or on the windows. The lattice was set by an inventive thought, and I am inclined to be Bolshevik. And the carriage got the name - Stolypin ... "

    It’s just from Wiki, full of other sources. You are lying.
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 5 June 2020 16: 55 New
    +1
    Before you teach others, you need to learn the rules of the Russian language, and then write comments here. Although, of course, it is such a difficult Russian language! Study, study and study again!
  • Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 5 June 2020 17: 32 New
    0
    Quote: Okolotochny
    It's just from wiki

    You know, Lesha, when I printed an article about Solzhenitsyn, I read all his opuses. From and to.
  • Okolotochny
    Okolotochny 6 June 2020 09: 26 New
    0
    Volodya, I brought a quote from Wiki, but really, look at not only Wikipedia, there are other materials on the Internet for Stolypin cars, they are full, you’re not a stupid man. Converted them to transport special forces already under the Soviet regime. So, you ... Pad Reptiloid against Soviet power.
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 6 June 2020 05: 21 New
    -1
    Ha ha ha Errors like the one in this comment are in others! How ridiculous! Stop sculpting illiteracy! To school! To school!
  • Okolotochny
    Okolotochny 6 June 2020 09: 23 New
    0
    Dima, except for grammar, there are no questions? That is, you and Vovochka froze the hogwash, otplusovat each other and licked it. Mind you, they gave her a favor for misinformation - one squeezed her, the second happily clapped his hands. And, young man, do not level it by yourself, I have already passed my "school", including with shoulder straps. You have everything ahead. Adios, feycomets.
  • Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 6 June 2020 09: 27 New
    +1
    Quote: Okolotochny
    I have already passed my "school", including with shoulder straps.

    It can be seen. Convoy?
  • Okolotochny
    Okolotochny 6 June 2020 09: 36 New
    +1
    Yes, Volodya, and the Convoy too, 92-93 of the VV of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the USSR (as we said - Мama Вhave gone Дmoney СKorean СKorean СKorean Рone)), a special escort company, transported suicide bombers and foreigners across the country. Although they served already in Russia, and the chevrons were old, the letters of the USSR were only then cut off with a blade. But Ukrainians, Belarusians, and Uzbeks also served with me. So let Reptiloid tell his peers about Stolypin cars, not me.
  • Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 6 June 2020 09: 40 New
    +1
    Quote: Okolotochny
    92-94 VV of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the USSR

    Yeah, Vovchiki.
    Quote: Okolotochny
    special construction company,

    It’s familiar. Vologda convoy?
  • Okolotochny
    Okolotochny 6 June 2020 09: 48 New
    +1
    Pardoni, 92-93, the first draft is for 1,5 years, the second is purely Russian. I did not meet with them personally, my colleagues met. They say the tough guys. I served in a company that could be counted with the fingers of one hand in an alliance. There were also such companies in the head Moscow convoy regiment. They were also a reserve for the Dynamo society. Hockey legend A. Maltsev was a soldier of just such a company.
    Previously (in the USSR) there was only one zone for foreigners - ITK-22 of the village of Lepley, Mordovia. They condemned a foreigner somewhere, and our convoy set off after him to escort to the place where he was serving his sentence. As you know, Asians in the Far East were joking. They were also released, escorted to places of conviction.
  • Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 6 June 2020 09: 56 New
    0
    Quote: Okolotochny
    They say tough guys.

    Nonsense. We played dominoes with these "tough guys", but they lost.
  • Okolotochny
    Okolotochny 6 June 2020 09: 58 New
    -1
    Volodya, did you play dominoes with them in the carriage wagon?)) Here they are tough))
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 6 June 2020 09: 45 New
    -1
    So you want to say that you don’t know the grammar either? I'm not talking about grammar. Duplicate errors, by the way. You need to know the rules of the Russian language. So today an article about the Russian language came out ..
    If you like Stolypin so much, they would have told you that it’s good. Well, about the assassination attempts and especially about the oddities associated with the murder. You have already learned all this if you started about Stolypin. We are waiting for the ssss. Only no errors, please. laughing lol
    Quote: Okolotochny
    Dima, except for grammar, there are no questions? That is, you and Vovochka froze the hogwash, otplusovat each other and licked it. Mind you, they gave her a favor for misinformation - one squeezed her, the second happily clapped his hands. And, young man, do not level it by yourself, I have already passed my "school", including with shoulder straps. You have everything ahead. Adios, feycomets.
  • Okolotochny
    Okolotochny 6 June 2020 09: 54 New
    -1
    If so you like Stolypin

    I like him, but that's not why he wrote. There is no need to replicate various myths, legends and fakes and pass them off as an axiom. If I am not "immersed in the topic", then I will not persist, I will also not give my opinion as "the last resort". And do not translate the arrows, I showed that your "arguments" are historically illiterate, false.
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 6 June 2020 10: 35 New
    0
    No fakes anywhere near. There was a normal conversation ..... And what did it bother you so much? Although now it seems I guess ... recourse recourse .
    Quote: Okolotochny
    If so you like Stolypin

    I like him, but that's not why he wrote. There is no need to replicate various myths, legends and fakes and pass them off as an axiom. If I am not "immersed in the topic", then I will not persist, I will also not give my opinion as "the last resort". And do not translate the arrows, I showed that your "arguments" are historically illiterate, false.
  • Okolotochny
    Okolotochny 5 June 2020 15: 50 New
    -2
    And converted them Bolsheviks)))
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 8 June 2020 03: 06 New
    0
    Quote: mordvin xnumx
    Quote: Okolotochny
    After the death of P.A. Stolypin they were converted to transport prisoners.

    Oh, who would sculpt a humpback. wink
    The absurdity is some kind of Adult man refers to the wiki and Solzhenitsyn ....... Theses are written as they went in these Stolypin cars, as not everyone reached the place. Yes, and this conversion took place how many years after they went on foot. Should these theses be reprinted here to him.
    Sometimes I can write a comment on an interesting article ......
  • ser56
    ser56 5 June 2020 13: 13 New
    0
    Quote: Reptiloid
    And if suddenly a family, then several working families with children settled in one rented room.

    and in the USSR, most of them with temporary detention facilities generally lived in communal apartments ...
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 5 June 2020 13: 29 New
    +1
    Quote: ser56
    Quote: Reptiloid
    And if suddenly a family, then several working families with children settled in one rented room.

    and in the USSR, most of them with temporary detention facilities generally lived in communal apartments ...

    And so it is and there is nothing wrong with it. If it is before the Second World War --- so it is normal. Everyone lived like that. Rarely, who lived in a separate For example, the house where Bekhterev and A. Tolstoy lived, it is interesting that there were also communal apartments, although Bekhterev and Tolstoy lived in separate houses. Benoit's house, where Kirov had a separate apartment, was also partially converted into communal apartments. The House of Academics was built before WWII, as with separate apartments. But after the Second World War and housing damage became communal.
    You probably don’t know that during the Second World War a lot of housing was lost and therefore the communal apartment is not surprising. This time you wrote the truth. laughing only topic not revealed request
  • ser56
    ser56 5 June 2020 13: 41 New
    -2
    Quote: Reptiloid
    And so it is and there is nothing wrong with it. If it is before the Second World War --- so it is normal.

    for the USSR ... before this family lived in apartments ...
    Quote: Reptiloid

    You probably don’t know that during the Second World War a lot of housing was lost


    you probably don’t know that factories are being built in the cities and the peasants moved there ... request And housing construction before the Second World War was practically not carried out - only separate houses for superiors were built - such as the town of Chekists ... request

    Quote: Reptiloid
    This time you wrote the truth. laughing only did not reveal the topic

    I generally write the truth bully
  • Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 5 June 2020 13: 56 New
    +1
    Quote: ser56
    And housing construction before the Second World War was practically not conducted.

    And read ka five-year plans.
  • ser56
    ser56 5 June 2020 14: 02 New
    0
    Quote: Mordvin 3
    And read ka five-year plans.

    1) and advise how to yourself bully if you have something to say on the topic, I’m waiting ...
    2) the number of workers for 1 five-year period in the USSR doubled to 22 million ... request At the time of the tsar’s development, there was no reduction in consumption - 70-71%, and with IVS during the first years, consumption fell by half - below 1% ... hi
  • Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 6 June 2020 09: 35 New
    +1
    Quote: ser56
    and advise yourself

    Frets. the number of three five-year plans remember?
  • ser56
    ser56 6 June 2020 13: 34 New
    0
    Quote: Mordvin 3
    the number of three five-year plans remember?

    it seems you poorly understand what is written ... request
  • Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 6 June 2020 13: 39 New
    +1
    Quote: ser56
    it seems you poorly understand what is written ...

    This is your understanding of the problem. The first two five-year plans were aimed at industrialization, the third did not end because of Hitler, the fourth was planning to increase the welfare of the population.
  • ser56
    ser56 6 June 2020 18: 54 New
    0
    Quote: Mordvin 3
    And read ka five-year plans.

    Quote: ser56
    and advise yourself

    Quote: Mordvin 3
    Frets. the number of three five-year plans remember?

    Quote: ser56
    it seems you poorly understand what is written.

    Quote: Mordvin 3
    This is your understanding of the problem

    is it clear? bully
    Quote: Mordvin 3
    the fourth plan was to increase the welfare of the population.

    yes, I remember - communism by 1980 and a separate apartment by 2000 hi
    Quote: Mordvin 3
    the third did not end because of Hitler,

    that is why, at its beginning, the military industry was shockingly developed, 29MK was formed by its end, battleships were built in order to joyfully make manufactured goods for the population in the fourth ... as in classics - Uncle you .... request
  • Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 6 June 2020 19: 28 New
    0
    Quote: ser56
    separate apartment by 2000

    This is Gorby's promise. But we did not believe him, and built on their own. Dad for four got a quartet of more than 80 squares. Moreover, everything was fixed, the wallpaper was glued, the gas stove was set, the tiles in the bathroom and the toilet were laid ...
  • ser56
    ser56 6 June 2020 19: 31 New
    0
    Quote: Mordvin 3
    This is Gorby's promise.

    and before it is LIB, and before it is NSH ... bully
    Quote: Mordvin 3
    Dad for four got a quartet of more than 80 squares.

    Do you remember the norms of extradition? 12m2 on the nose ... request
  • Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 6 June 2020 19: 47 New
    +1
    Quote: ser56
    12m2 on the nose ...

    It was under Brezhnev. Under the State Emergency Committee, Starodubtsev promised 15 hectares to everyone.
  • Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 6 June 2020 19: 51 New
    +1
    Quote: ser56
    Do you remember the norms of extradition? 12m2 on the nose ...

    Uncle in the 70s got a three-ruble note for four. My bourgeois brother, now lives there, although he bought a couple of huts, and he is building a house.
  • ser56
    ser56 6 June 2020 21: 28 New
    +1
    Quote: Mordvin 3
    Uncle in the 70s got a three-ruble note for four.

    this is normal request and here
    Quote: Mordvin 3
    Dad for four got a quartet of more than 80 squares.

    possible only with benefits - for example, a candidate or doctor of sciences had the right to an additional room ....
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 8 June 2020 02: 17 New
    0
    It is necessary to subtract from the 80m kitchen, bath and other MOS. Under socialism, only the living space was considered, but now it’s all together, see my comment above
  • ser56
    ser56 8 June 2020 21: 56 New
    0
    Quote: Reptiloid
    80m kitchen, bath and other MOS.

    4 * 12 = 48 ... do you remember Soviet apartments where there were such bathtubs / kitchens? request
    Quote: Reptiloid
    It also mattered which children are heterosexual or not, which other family members.

    in theory, in practice they gave n-1
    Quote: Reptiloid
    I. Standards per person when queuing and when receiving an apartment were different, the latter were greater.

    7 and 12 m2 hi
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 9 June 2020 06: 03 New
    0
    In Leningrad such parameters are for stalins built then, and also for experimental block houses of foam concrete, which were built at the same time. They thought it would be cheaper, but it turned out to be more expensive. There are not many of them. After that, they began to think about cheaper prices due to size, mop, and so they came to Khryshchev.
    In the stalinka there were wide large corridors, pantries, large bathtubs, hallways, kitchens from 8m. I saw 5-room stalinkas, with rooms from 20m, the same kitchen and sometimes a window in the hallway.
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 8 June 2020 02: 13 New
    0
    In addition to the norm per person, in this case, even when receiving an apartment, they added on the sanitary condition in the amount that there would be no agreed surplus area, for which they took a different rent. At the same time, it mattered which children are heterosexual or not, which other family members. The rates per person were different when placing on a queue and when receiving an apartment, the latter were higher. In this case, only the living area (rooms) was considered, and not the MOS.
    There was still a difference between cities.
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 5 June 2020 14: 41 New
    -1
    Which families, in which apartments? Why did I remember about Benoit's House, Olgovich once wrote about separate apartments in this house. So pzhlst ---- Kamennoostovsky house 26/28 SPB! Everything is written in Wicca, I don’t want to repeat .. Of course, there were a bit more modest houses where families lived in separate apartments. And not even removable, but their own, but this is ----- the upper class.
    Before WWII, scrap was built for workers already in the 20-30s. Basically, these houses have already collapsed. In total, there were not enough materials either. But then they tried to improve the quality, some of them are still quite normal. They are constantly looking for new opportunities.
  • Cyril G ...
    Cyril G ... 5 June 2020 22: 01 New
    +2
    Actually, this was just progress compared to the times of tsarism.
  • ccsr
    ccsr 6 June 2020 12: 25 New
    0
    Quote: Reptiloid
    And the Stolypin car and the Stolypin tie !!!!!!! Already how many interlocutors and photos printed! Stolypin affairs!
    For this there were attempts! He hated his Russian people!

    What does the "Stolypin wagon" have to do with it, if it was specially created for the voluntary movement of peasants with their livestock from central Russia for the development of Siberia? This was a very progressive decision, so in this respect it would not be possible to hang anything on Stolypin - it was the right thing to do.
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 8 June 2020 03: 19 New
    0
    Quote: ccsr
    Quote: Reptiloid
    And the Stolypin car and the Stolypin tie !!!!!!! Already how many interlocutors and photos printed! Stolypin affairs!
    For this there were attempts! He hated his Russian people!

    What does the "Stolypin wagon" have to do with it, if it was specially created for the voluntary movement of peasants with their livestock from central Russia for the development of Siberia? This was a very progressive decision, so in this respect it would not be possible to hang anything on Stolypin - it was the right thing to do.
    Somehow, I did not expect this from you. Stolypin had to drive himself at least once with his family, maybe he would change his mind and stay alive. The network has a lot of things like riding in these cars.
  • ccsr
    ccsr 8 June 2020 15: 41 New
    0
    Quote: Reptiloid
    Stolypin had to drive himself at least once with his family, maybe he would change his mind and stay alive.

    I did not see anything terrible in them for that time, but on the contrary, I think that this served as a good incentive for the development of new lands.
    In 1910, the mass production of the so-called "Stolypin cars" began. They differed from ordinary ones in that their rear part was a room the entire width of the carriage, intended for peasant equipment and cattle. The “Stolypin carriage” received ominous fame later, after the death of Stolypin himself, when people began to be transported to the camps ...
    "Stolypin wagon" - a heating wagon, began to be massively used to transport peasants from the central provinces of Russia to Siberia and the Far East, where they (peasants) were allocated (for nothing, thanks to Stolypin) land for use. In Soviet times, the concept became a household name due to the massive export of the repressed to the settlement in wagons of a similar design (and I think in the same).

    https://zen.yandex.ru/media/id/5c1a56a0ea7bd400aa320d15/pochemu-nazyvalsia-vagon-dlia-osujdennyh-stolypinskim-5e6cde70720e971242d3d3f4
    By the way, I don’t know if you saw the guards in transport wagons for transport protection at the end of the XNUMXth century, but the conditions there were no better than in Stolypin wagons - I know that for sure.
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 8 June 2020 17: 12 New
    +1
    Think about it, but is it good to ride with cattle? And the consequences ... Yes, they could take animals in the village into a hut in the event of severe frosts, but did not live with animals. And then the average life expectancy of 30 years would still be reduced.
    And how many years walked to new places? 30-40 versts per day? There is everything on the net ..
    The whole peasant life was a complete mockery of all those above them .. And nothing was ever done to improve their life.
  • Constructor68
    Constructor68 5 June 2020 13: 01 New
    -3
    I read books by revolutionaries released in the 60s.

    When I was a pioneer, I, too, believed in the tales of the kibalchish boy and the damned bourgeois. But in fact it turned out that the kibalchishes were capitalized by executions and rotted away in the camps so many of their compatriots that the bourgeois never dreamed of. And the descendants of these Yezhov executioners, like you, are now rubbing snot on VO about the "great revolution" and the cruelty of the tsarist regime.
    Does a phrase like "Stolypin carriage" tell you anything?

    I know perfectly well what "Yezhovsky", "Yagodovsky", "Andreevsky" are. There, orders of magnitude more people were transported. Somehow I found an extract about my relatives who had been repressed. The youngest of them was 2 years old.
  • Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 6 June 2020 09: 29 New
    0
    Quote: Designer 68
    Yezhovsky "," Yagodovsky "," Andreevsky "

    As Orlov wrote an opus ...
  • ser56
    ser56 5 June 2020 13: 17 New
    -2
    Quote: Mordvin 3
    "Stolypin carriage"

    you are not confused with a Stolypin tie? closer to the topic ... I recall that the Bolsheviks suppressed the uprising of the peasants using gases ... request And under Stolypin, the number of executed was ridiculous, according to Soviet concepts, a couple of orders less ... repeat The humanists were ...
  • Cyril G ...
    Cyril G ... 5 June 2020 21: 58 New
    0
    The Stolypin troiks did not like to bother themselves with document workflow, and besides, under the tsar, the lawless lawlessness was fairly encouraged, secretly of course.
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 6 June 2020 00: 54 New
    -1
    Quote: Cyril G ...
    The Stolypin troiks did not like to bother themselves with document workflow, and besides, under the tsar, the lawless lawlessness was fairly encouraged, secretly of course.
    there is an opinion that in the murder of Stolypin there is a lot of strange ...... like, if not encouraged, it was not very excluded ....... somehow the tsar had a strange attitude towards Stolypin ...... although what kind of Stolypin was positive, and even the king was so completely (sarcasm-sss)
  • Cyril G ...
    Cyril G ... 6 June 2020 12: 10 New
    +1
    Well, considering that the killer was part-time secret police agent, yes. Cool. However, given the moral freak Nicolas was, it is likely that Stolypin was banged with his tacit consent. Already a very narrow-minded and weak-willed king could not stand the active and resolute subordinates. As there Witte seemed. Yesterday he was received by the king and treated kindly, today I was sent a notice of dismissal. Why. The head who is not able to personally bring to the subordinate the order for his dismissal is absolutely worthless.
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 6 June 2020 12: 23 New
    +1
    Generally strange. The number of attempts by the failed is such that everything was clear. Somehow they might have thought how to save it .......
  • ser56
    ser56 5 June 2020 13: 18 New
    -2
    Quote: Designer 68
    notorious "triplets" sentences?

    Yes, they were shot by lists, according to the order ... a new word - so no one had done it before ...
  • Sergey S.
    Sergey S. 5 June 2020 14: 17 New
    +3
    Quote: Designer 68
    And how do you, balabol, turn your tongue to compare the proceedings in the Republic of Ingushetia and the notorious sentences of "triplets"?

    Well, why apply "Feminine Logic"?
    1. I do not justify any repression. Moreover, I condemn the most merciless way. For many innocent people died and suffered, but many internal enemies were not revealed ... which turned into 1941 cases of mass betrayal and sabotage.
    I didn’t say good words about triples, and your attack is past the target. But the problem of triples is not in the name, but in the terribly low qualification of the people in them.
    2. In tsarist times they executed less, this is absolutely correct.
    But the punitive machine was no less brutal.
    The rebellious ones were broken or not hanging, they were killed by hard labor.

    3. To find out why tsarist Russia fell apart does not make much sense, but this is a fact.
    Regarding oppression, humiliation and annihilation.
    In any state there is a mechanism of coercion, or rather, this is the essence of the state. But the mechanism of coercion can be directed to different goals.
    What the tsar sought was not to be understood by his mind.
    Under Soviet rule, the main task was the industrial power of the country.
    And they crushed egoists of different stripes who did not want to work hard at construction sites, factories, landfills ...
    But if the necessary specialist was found among the convicts, in violation of all the rules and laws, he was pulled out and even made the project manager of enterprises ...

    In modern capitalism, they all slept, but they changed the main task: so as not to resent, not to resist, not to interfere in decision-making. As a result, we can discuss with you anything ... and someone likes it ... And when they sold the plants, sold and gave the enemy technology, ruined the education and upbringing of young people, there was no one to even say. No one listened to the voice of experts ...
    After 1991, the death toll was enormous: gang warfare, suicide, early strokes and heart attacks, ... then social diseases, such as AIDS ...

    4. So continue to blame the Bolsheviks for everything .... You were allowed to.
    And I was allowed to disagree with you.
    And to believe that the proportion of decent people in society is gradually increasing. This is the guarantee that the idea of ​​communism has survived and will soon triumph.
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 5 June 2020 10: 45 New
    +1
    Quote: Sergey S.
    ......... Or read Leskova. Or Gorky, or Melnikov-Pechora ...
    Or did pre-revolutionary Russian writers also lie under the leadership of the Bolsheviks?

    I sometimes read Russian folk old songs. Such a life was hopeless ....
    Although, of course, one can also say --- the Bolsheviks composed. And here it is. By the way, and about how they left for the city, with Stolypin reforms and what awaited them there, there are songs too ....
    1. Sergey S.
      Sergey S. 5 June 2020 18: 58 New
      +2
      Quote: Reptiloid
      I sometimes read Russian folk old songs. Such a life was hopeless ....
      Although, of course, one can also say --- the Bolsheviks composed. And here it is. By the way, and about how they left for the city, with Stolypin reforms and what awaited them there, there are songs too ....

      My grandmother loved her royal childhood ...
      She was born in 1906.
      Until the age of 7, she helped with household chores, and looked after the younger ones.
      And then with everyone in the field ... Worked for 12-14 hours - this is in the field ...
      At home, there were still things to do.
      School - only 3 classes, and not every day. Literate, but wrote only in capital letters.

      And this is about a family that was average, with 2 cows, with a horse .... There were no drunkards in the family. There are more sons than daughters. My great-grandfather was the last to enter the collective farm in the village. Non-Black Earth ...

      By the way, one of their cousins ​​left the family for the First World War after seniority as junior officers. So he was released on vacation in Petrograd in 1916, and there the bandits killed.

      I can’t openly cry for the life of the common people, I am ashamed of the whole world.
      But Leskov, Gorky, Korolenko read, and his heart bleeds ...
      And then ... I talked with my grandmother about the burdens of the people, and she answered: - So what? Was it easier for us?

      Today's "lovers" of the tsarist time would be resettled in tsarist times!
      I would see how they sang after a 14-hour manual work day.
      Nevertheless, they represent themselves in officer uniforms, but they don’t try on soldiers, workers and peasants themselves.
    2. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 5 June 2020 20: 40 New
      +2
      Yeah! You wrote it all well, SergeyS! and I am very happy about that! Because not so long ago I wrote about the same thing. Even the words are similar. What do all kinds of king-lovers imagine themselves to be successful people at that time, because they have received a little education now or earlier. And they forget that the ancestral relatives did not receive education and did not become successful. That's what. And all this happens as a result of the current propaganda, admiring the past, children's books, how everything was good then, the pictures are beautiful, what commoners have good clothes for different occasions. And do not write about the different rights of estates! About the fact that vile people could be carved. Such an administrative punishment
    3. ser56
      ser56 6 June 2020 13: 40 New
      -1
      Quote: Sergey S.
      I would see how they sang after a 14-hour manual work day.

      there was no such thing with IN2 request but it was very good working legislation ... it’s a pity that you don’t know the history of Russia ... hi
    4. Sergey S.
      Sergey S. 6 June 2020 20: 39 New
      +1
      Quote: ser56
      there wasn’t such an IN2 request, but it was very good working legislation ... it’s a pity that you don’t know the history of Russia ...

      So my grandmother lied to me?
      Yes, you are just zombies.
      Sorry for the harshness, but what you wrote is about my family. This is not even a lie, it is an abomination.

      The key to understanding, to change your mind:
      I wrote about a peasant family of non-black soil, the Vesyegonsk district of the Tver province, the village of Ermolkino, my grandmother - nee Golina Antonina Mikhailovna, after Prikazchikov’s husband.
      Search, check ...
      I did not write about workers.
    5. ser56
      ser56 6 June 2020 21: 37 New
      -1
      Quote: Sergey S.
      So my grandmother lied to me?

      I didn’t hold a candle, maybe you misunderstood, maybe a scarecrow ... it happens, age psychology ... ...

      Quote: Sergey S.
      Yes, you are just zombies.

      in the eyes of a poorly educated amateur ... hi

      Quote: Sergey S.
      but what you wrote concerns my family. This is not even a lie, it is an abomination.

      1) with a hysteria to his wife ....
      2) I wrote the historical truth without going personal, unlike you ... wink
      Quote: Sergey S.
      I did not write about workers.

      Quote: Sergey S.
      Nevertheless, they represent themselves in officer uniforms, but soldier’s, working and peasant life is not tried on.

      1) workers had a normalized day
      2) then you wrote about workers ...
      3) wipe the snot and read ...
      “Only on June 2, 1897, after a long history of projects and debates, the law“ On the duration and distribution of working time in the establishments of the factory industry was adopted. ”This law introduced a limitation of the working day in factories and factories to 11,5 hours for men , and in the case of work at night, as well as on Saturday and before holidays - 10 o'clock. For women and children, a limitation of the working day was established at 10 o'clock. The law also prohibited work on Sunday and established 14 compulsory holidays (in 1900 to them 3 more days were added.) By "mutual agreement", workers could work on Sundays instead of weekdays. At the same time, overtime work could also be introduced in excess of the working hours established by this law under a special contract. The law came into force on January 1, 1898. and was simultaneously extended to 60 provinces of European Russia and covered all industrial establishments and mining, private and state-owned factories (although in practice, The factories already have shorter working hours already). "
      "The most important legislative acts of the period 1901-1917. Are" Rules on the remuneration of victims of accidents of workers and employees, as well as members of their families, in the enterprises of the factory, mining and mining industry "dated June 2, 1903 and a set of four the laws on insurance of workers in case of illness or accident, passed June 23, 1912. "
    6. Sergey S.
      Sergey S. 6 June 2020 21: 47 New
      0
      Quote: ser56
      This law introduced a limitation of working hours at factories to 11,5 hours for men, and in the case of work at night, as well as on Saturday and before the holidays - 10 hours.

      You yourself believe what you wrote.
      For example, already from my life.
      In the 1990s, he worked at 2 jobs at 1,5 rates.
      Really 12 hours a day.
      And on your pieces of paper this was not.
      The papers that you read are best used immediately in the final way ...
    7. ser56
      ser56 6 June 2020 21: 53 New
      0
      Quote: Sergey S.
      You yourself believe what you wrote.

      your problem is that you confuse the SSR with RI ... request
      Quote: Sergey S.
      In the 1990s, he worked at 2 jobs at 1,5 rates.

      those. 8 * 1,5 = 12 * 2 = 24 ... you are a monster ... bully or work such - save ...
      Quote: Sergey S.
      And on your pieces of paper this was not.

      This is your choice request

      Quote: Sergey S.
      The papers that you read are best used immediately in the final way ...

      Quote: Sergey S.
      in the eyes of an uneducated amateur

      you are funny (or rather, you need another word to characterize you, but I already have a lot of "drives" on the site hi ) and I'm too lazy to further explain something to you ... request
    8. Sergey S.
      Sergey S. 6 June 2020 23: 42 New
      0
      Quote: ser56

      Quote: Sergey S.
      in the eyes of an uneducated amateur

      you are funny (or rather, you need another word to characterize you, but I already have a lot of "drives" on the site hi ) and I'm too lazy to further explain something to you ... request

      Ah ah ah!
      1. You have reached a certain state in which you confuse my and your posts .... It happens.
      2. Laziness is a noble feeling. Eliminates excessive burden.
      3. It makes no sense to angry site managers, here I agree with you.

      It's time for other topics!
      See you soon!
  • ser56
    ser56 5 June 2020 13: 10 New
    -1
    Quote: Sergey S.
    You tell the peasants ...

    Are you about 4,5 million dispossessed or 2 million deported during collectivization?
    Quote: Sergey S.
    Or Gorky, or Melnikov-Pechora ...

    1) there are statistics - it is more informative ...
    2) How is Gorky-if the enemy does not know ....
    1. Sergey S.
      Sergey S. 6 June 2020 20: 52 New
      0
      Quote: ser56
      How is Gorky-if the enemy does not know ....

      This is not with A.M. Gorky - This is with all of us.
      All enemies should know that if they become enemies to us, they will either surrender or be destroyed.

      I know what you are hinting at.
      But these are double standards. Enemies really have to be defeated. Both external and internal. Otherwise, the state cannot survive.
      You can only discuss who should be called the enemy.

      As for dispossession, then again, according to the grandmother, in their village 4 families dispossessed, and two of them remained to live in the village - their house became a school.

      And the grandmother did not respect the poor. She talked about her neighbor: Eva, Averyanov, a drunkard, and earlier they went to the poor ...

      When I was a schoolboy, I skated with my uncle on the “Belorusi” collective farm on the Trudovik collective farm ... And I heard a lot from my grandmothers ...
      You can’t break me through propaganda.
    2. ser56
      ser56 6 June 2020 21: 42 New
      0
      Quote: Sergey S.
      This is not with A.M. Gorky - This is with all of us.

      write for yourself ...
      Quote: Sergey S.
      All enemies should know that if they become enemies to us,

      bored with you, you are illiterate and not very smart ... request
      Quote: Sergey S.
      then again, according to the grandmother, 4 families were dispossessed in their village, and two remained to live in the village - their house became a school.

      here, transfer the situation to yourself - people lived, worked, built a house, acquired property ...
      and they were robbed, and in violation of the law - good power ... hi
      Quote: Sergey S.
      And the grandmother did not respect the poor. She talked about her neighbor: Eva, Averyanov, a drunkard, and earlier they went to the poor ...

      and your grandmother was reasonable, it’s a pity that you listened poorly to her ... request
      Quote: Sergey S.
      You can’t break me through propaganda.

      everyone heard and understood nothing ... bully
  • Hantengri
    Hantengri 4 June 2020 20: 55 New
    +3
    Quote: Designer 68
    Maybe there was no well-known telegram from the head of the German intelligence service about Lenin: "Lenin's arrival in Russia is successful. He works the way we wanted it."

    From here, in more detail is it possible? The following questions are of particular interest:
    1) the full name of the "head of German intelligence" who sent this telegram. Date of departure and incoming number under which it was registered by the recipient.
    2) The name of the historian who introduced this document into scientific circulation.
    3) The name of the work in which he did it.
    4) Where is this document stored now?
    5) Where can I find a scan of this telegram?
    1. Constructor68
      Constructor68 5 June 2020 05: 48 New
      0
      Please contact the German Federal Foreign Office for a copy. In ger Spiegel there was material based on the study of these documents, as well as documents of the Prussian and Swiss police.
      1. your1970
        your1970 5 June 2020 10: 07 New
        +2
        Spiegel is a serious argument, practically deadly ... not AIDS info, of course, but it didn't go too far ...
        To bring the work of a historian about this telegram is weak?
        1. Constructor68
          Constructor68 5 June 2020 12: 49 New
          -2
          Spiegel is a serious argument, practically deadly ... not AIDS info, of course, but it didn't go too far ...

          Another squeak in the format "nivere until William II himself proves to me personally"
          1. your1970
            your1970 5 June 2020 14: 17 New
            +2
            I will join and repeat
            Quote: HanTengri
            1) the full name of the "head of German intelligence" who sent this telegram. Date of departure and incoming number under which it was registered by the recipient.
            2) The name of the historian who introduced this document into scientific circulation.
            3) The name of the work in which he did it.
            4) Where is this document stored now?
            5) Where can I find a scan of this telegram?

            And while this is not, that's all
            Quote: Designer 68
            In ger Spiegel there was material based on the study of these documents,
            - speaking NOT in scientific language - crap is complete ....
            Here is the article we are discussing was posted in the media, yes, "VO" is a registered media with all the required attributes. So now this article should be considered scientifically proven material for the existence of generals' conspiracies ??????????

            Why is an article in Spiegel better than an article on "VO" ??????

            Z.Y. at least a link to an article in Spiegel would be thrown ....
      2. Sergey S.
        Sergey S. 6 June 2020 20: 55 New
        +1
        Quote: Designer 68
        Please contact the German Federal Foreign Office for a copy. In ger Spiegel there was material based on the study of these documents, as well as documents of the Prussian and Swiss police.

        So you have not seen a single document, but you have already drawn conclusions.
        True democracy.
        I want to write what I want.
        Oh no no no!!!
        1. Constructor68
          Constructor68 9 June 2020 11: 50 New
          -1
          So you have not seen a single document, but you have already drawn conclusions.
          True democracy.
          I want to write what I want.
          Oh no no no!!!

          You know, I have not seen you either. But why should I not only believe in your existence, but read your pro-communist nonsense, richly covered in lies, like an old moldy crust.
          1. Sergey S.
            Sergey S. 9 June 2020 13: 59 New
            0
            Quote: Designer 68
            But why should I not only believe in your existence, but read your pro-communist nonsense, richly covered in lies, like an old moldy crust.

            I agree with you on everything.
            And that which is impossible to believe. You need to know a certain set of facts and be able to analyze them.
            But!
            You probably expect me to answer you in a mirror, and say that your posts are all from the substance of post-life products of the intestinal tract?
            Do not wait, because everything that exists in nature, everything has some kind of meaning.
            So your anti-communist activities will benefit. At least, the Communists of the new formation will take into account the mistakes of the past and more accurately respond to opposition from opponents.

            But!
            In this thread, I had virtually no posts that could be so nervous to respond to. Are the stories about my grandmother so destructive for liberal heads?
  • Sugar Honeyovich
    Sugar Honeyovich 5 June 2020 03: 49 New
    0
    Quote: Designer 68
    telegrams from the head of German intelligence about Lenin: "Lenin's arrival in Russia is successful. He works the way we wanted it."

    Objectively speaking, only the enemies of Germany could "want" this. More precisely, the German monarchy.
    1. ser56
      ser56 5 June 2020 13: 14 New
      -1
      Quote: Sahar Medovich
      More precisely - the German monarchy.

      the Japanese did in 05g, what is worse than the Germans? request
  • ser56
    ser56 4 June 2020 21: 20 New
    0
    Quote: Sergey S.
    Is there a task he received from the German General Staff?

    there were grandmas ... and a sealed wagon ...
    Quote: Sergey S.
    So I’ll tell you more - the Empress was confused with Rasputin,

    did you hold a candle? bully or judge by your wife?
  • Edward Vashchenko
    Edward Vashchenko 4 June 2020 09: 12 New
    +6
    about the study of the Russian historian Fursov and the writer Strizhak

    Simple nymey - give conspiracy.
    Yes, cognitive dissonance is mowing our ranks.
    The more we learn delusional truths, the farther from the truth.
    Well, yes, "the truth is somewhere there"
    wassat
    1. The comment was deleted.
  • Edward Vashchenko
    Edward Vashchenko 4 June 2020 09: 14 New
    +1
    In one I agree with the conclusions of the article, and they coincide with the scientific vision, revolutionaries are not preparing revolutionaries, they are actively preparing the tsarist and royal generals, with kings and kings at the head.
    1. your1970
      your1970 4 June 2020 11: 59 New
      +2
      Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
      they are actively prepared by royal and royal generals, with kings and kings at the head.
      - to overthrow themselves ???? !!!! Vaughn ..
      That is, you are aware that usually after the coups, the generals are given a hat ... ??? And new generals come in their place !!
      1. Edward Vashchenko
        Edward Vashchenko 4 June 2020 12: 35 New
        +1
        you know that usually after coups, the generals are given a hat ...

        Sergey, thanks for explaining good
      2. Edward Vashchenko
        Edward Vashchenko 4 June 2020 12: 39 New
        +2
        This is a historical law, if you are not in the know))), and the law of management: if you make gross or stupid managerial mistakes, they ultimately lead to disaster.
        History shows a million examples in this regard.
        Kings and their "generals", like the Merovingians, always have a question unambiguously: hair or sword.
        And nothing can be done about it.
  • Edward Vashchenko
    Edward Vashchenko 4 June 2020 09: 21 New
    +7
    The fable "Trotsky - the creator of the Red Army" is still imposed. Few people think that the Red Army was created not by the wretched politician Bronstein, but by the efforts of dozens of the best generals of the imperial army and more than one hundred thousand military officers

    To people far from management, it always seems that something is wrong with management.
    if not for "Bronstein", all these generals would have been wandering around, the question is, what was the use of this General Staff, which was hated by the field officers of the 1st World War.
    But the non-commissioners and lieutenants commanded the armies, well, yes, yes, yes ...
    sometimes colonels, but something of the generals was not observed.
    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 4 June 2020 16: 05 New
      +3
      but something generals was not observed.

      Eduard, General Parsky, tried in 1918 to defend Yamburg (modern Kingisepp) from the approaching Germans, and his hair stood on end from confusion. belay When sailors led by Dybenko escaped from the front (and fled right up to Gatchina in the echelon), this only added to the problems. And his happiness is that the Germans did not go any further, and there they made peace! request
      http://www.grwar.ru/library/Mil-Collect-II/MCII_05.html
      Hmm .. in the notes about that operation, Parsky calls one of the best parts that he got .. a certain battery .. Shpakovsky! laughing
      1. Edward Vashchenko
        Edward Vashchenko 4 June 2020 17: 12 New
        +2
        Where Shpakovsky - there is a victory!
        1. Astra wild
          Astra wild 7 June 2020 15: 51 New
          +2
          Vyacheslav Olegovich will be puffed up
      2. Edward Vashchenko
        Edward Vashchenko 4 June 2020 17: 16 New
        +2
        These are particulars, of course, the Reds had generals, but the Revolution, any, it also takes place in military affairs: France or the Union - examples of this, and the "generals" of the revolution are most often not generals, well, not generals.
        This is the law of history. As for the Russian generals in World War I - "the shah signed in complete inability, here you can take him and replace him."
        Yours faithfully,
        Edward hi
  • The comment was deleted.
  • smaug78
    smaug78 4 June 2020 09: 31 New
    +7
    The author is a worthy successor to the case of the conspirator Samsonov. Here's another topic of the Anglo-Zionists to reveal and in general it will be excellent
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Victorio
    Victorio 4 June 2020 09: 57 New
    +2
    a new "historical discovery" or everything secret becomes clear ?!
  • Pvi1206
    Pvi1206 4 June 2020 10: 05 New
    +5
    The October Revolution was carried out by tsarist generals

    the author confuses Hegel with Bebel ... tsarist generals forced the tsar to abdicate, breaking the oath ... and the October coup was organized and carried out we know who ...
    1. sanya
      sanya 4 June 2020 10: 23 New
      -5
      Germans vestimo
    2. Pvi1206
      Pvi1206 4 June 2020 10: 31 New
      -4
      the tribesmen of the author ...
    3. itis
      itis 5 June 2020 19: 52 New
      0
      much worse. he confuses bebel with babel
  • sanya
    sanya 4 June 2020 10: 22 New
    -9
    All or almost all of the lies designed to cover up the participation of German generals, intelligence, military experts and just fighters from German prisoners and so on.
    1. your1970
      your1970 4 June 2020 12: 06 New
      +3
      For starters, you’d at least think for a second - someone in 1991-92 when oceans of slops poured on the Bolsheviks - no facts from your hard-won
      Quote: sanya
      German generals, intelligence, military specialists
      ideas did not come out ???
      Cooperation with Germany at 20-30 was laid out by everyone, all documents were tank, chemical, aviation. But this question was shy of the gentlemen of the liberal democrats to publish !!! Apparently nothing to confirm, due to the lack of such facts
    2. Sugar Honeyovich
      Sugar Honeyovich 4 June 2020 19: 12 New
      0
      Quote: sanya
      the participation of German generals, intelligence, military experts and just fighters from former German captives

      This is a lie
  • A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 4 June 2020 10: 26 New
    10
    It seems to have already agreed not to rewrite history?
    Then they will say that Russia is a country with an unpredictable past?

    Or, you should immediately warn readers that all these are personal fantasies of the author, that this is a funny artistic whistle on a given topic, as they like to say now - "alternative history". And here, also in a batch with conspiracy theory, like "they hid it from us!"
    One should not only forget that "alternative history" is just a genre of fiction and has a very indirect relationship to History (science). hi
  • Sergey S.
    Sergey S. 4 June 2020 10: 55 New
    +5
    Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
    Revolutions are not prepared by revolutionaries, they are actively prepared by tsarist and royal generals, with kings and kings at the head.

    ... by mediocre government.
  • pmkemcity
    pmkemcity 4 June 2020 11: 01 New
    +5
    and from where it was possible to quickly get to the Aurora in a motor boat.

    Napping the silent northern city
    Big grenade and I'm still young
    Swimming across the river, the sentinel does not sleep
    And on the left, the oarlock squeaks loudly
    And then I grabbed the man by the breasts and said softly
    I will kill you boatman, I will kill you boatman
    I will kill you boatman, I will kill you boatman.
    I forgot Brusilova.
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 4 June 2020 14: 31 New
      0
      Quote: pmkemcity
      I will kill you boatman, I will kill you boatman

  • Vladimir Mashkov
    Vladimir Mashkov 4 June 2020 11: 07 New
    +5
    I have been reading the respected author Yuri Mikhailovich for a long time and almost always support him without comment. What made him write this fantastic article is a big mystery to me. An even bigger mystery is WHY the editor, who declared that he was an opponent of conspiracy theories, indignantly rejected my much less "conspiracy" article based on facts, forbade me to publish at all on "Military Review" (I have to publish on other sites), published THIS article ... And in the "History" section !!! Are the VO rules different for different people? Solid conspiracy ... lol
  • 1536
    1536 4 June 2020 12: 00 New
    +1
    The Great October Socialist Revolution in Russia was carried out by the people of Russia. Including the generals who sided with the rebellious people.
    After 1917, after the cessation of the Civil War of 1918-1922. and overcoming the devastation, by the 1940s the country had turned into an industrial power. If the Germans had not attacked the USSR in 1941, by the 50s of the XNUMXth century, Soviet Russia would have become a state advanced in all respects, an example which many countries of the world would follow.
    Alas, the war dashed all these hopes, and the subsequent actions of the party elite of the CPSU crossed out all the achievements of the socialist revolution and slowed down the country's development. It was in those years that there were not enough "tsarist generals" who could put an end to this orgy of disintegration and betrayal in the state.
    1. vladcub
      vladcub 4 June 2020 17: 07 New
      +1
      "if the Germans had not attacked the USSR" I immediately remembered my childhood: "if only there were mushrooms growing in my mouth" even a hedgehog is clear that the Second World War put an end to all plans. By the summer of 1941, the people had just begun to come to their senses from the revolution, the ensuing devastation, the "Holodomor", and otherwise the hunger strike of the 30s and the war began
  • Pashhenko Nikolay
    Pashhenko Nikolay 4 June 2020 12: 14 New
    +3
    Alternative history? Oh well. And then we all are looking somewhere, who is rewriting history.
  • Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master 4 June 2020 12: 30 New
    +8
    Nonsense, stupidity and nonsense. Unscientific fiction.
    I’ll probably write an article in the "armament" section that a warship should float upside down to protect it from rain, so that water from above does not flow into the ship. And the deck is down, since the water does not flow from the bottom up. Is it logical? It is logical. There will be no less common sense in this article of mine than in this one.
    I don’t know who comes up with such nonsense, but I’m just sure that it’s impossible to do this seriously without harming one’s own psyche. Some prankster with fantasy, such as, for example, me, slap pseudo-historical theory on his knee, he neighing, amused others. Type letters Anna Yaroslavna father - an innocent joke designed to entertain the reader, to bring a smile. But then someone who was not burdened with intellect, but politically very correctly oriented, and, most importantly, absolutely without a sense of humor, read this joke and took it seriously, with all his proletarian consciousness, digested the information received inside himself and dumped a completely different product on the heads of his comrades. - riddled with ardent love for the Great Leader Stalin, the condescending approval of the Snotty Intelligent Lenin and the ardent hatred of the Great Scoundrel Trotsky, the historical manifesto, revolutionizing historical science.
    But what surprises me the most is that there are people who believe this and, judging by the comments, they are on this site.
    You know, after reading this article and some comments to it in the style of "everything was just that," I caught myself thinking that I was beginning to understand VO Shpakovsky, so unloved by many here. I wanted to write an article that Stalin and Beria were in a homosexual relationship and both hated Trotsky, because he is actually a woman, that Lenin and Jack the Ripper are one person, and so on, in the same spirit. Just to watch some of the commentators continue to spit, already dying of dehydration. And to substantiate such constructions from the point of view of logic, I assure you, I will succeed no worse than Apukhtin did.
    Question: is it worth publishing such nonsense?
    In any case, for those who want to spit on Shpakovsky, I can safely answer with the example of this article - Samsonov and Apukhtin were the first to start. laughing
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 4 June 2020 13: 22 New
      +6
      Quote: Trilobite Master
      I’ll probably write an article in the "weapons" section that a warship should float upside down to protect it from rain, so that water from above does not flow into the ship. And the deck is downward, since the water does not flow upward anyway ..

      And also such a ship will be unaffected by torpedoes and missiles! Patamushta’s bottom is on top of him, and torpedoes cannot fly. And the superstructure under his water, which covers them from missiles! smile
      Quote: Trilobite Master
      that Lenin and Jack the Ripper are one person

      I would ask ... Back in the days of the USSR, in the early 90s, it was proved that Lenin is a mushroom! This is even shown on television. smile
      1. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 4 June 2020 13: 48 New
        +4
        Quote: Alexey RA
        Lenin is a mushroom!

        One does not interfere with the other, moreover, it supplements and clarifies the motive, so to speak, because every year millions of mushroom pickers cut hundreds of millions of mushrooms.
        All is decided. I dip my pen in ... what gets caught and sit down for historical work. What do you think will be published?
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 4 June 2020 14: 42 New
          +6
          Quote: Trilobite Master
          One does not interfere with the other, moreover, it supplements and clarifies the motive, so to speak, because every year millions of mushroom pickers cut hundreds of millions of mushrooms.

          Exactly - violence breeds violence. And sooner or later, the mushrooms begin to take revenge.
          Stop mycocide until another Lenin appears! smile
          Quote: Trilobite Master
          All is decided. I dip my pen in ... what gets caught and sit down for historical work. What do you think will be published?

          But where will they go ...
          1. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 4 June 2020 15: 50 New
            +3

            Eighteen-year-old Volodya Ulyanov after returning from London at the end of 1888. The paper on the table is a menu from the Bonapeti restaurant located at the corner of Spasskaya and Dvortsovaya streets in Simbirsk. The sixth item on the menu is mushroom soup.
            "We will go the other way," Volodya said then, throwing the bloody knife with which he cut London prostitutes aside.
            1. vladcub
              vladcub 4 June 2020 21: 10 New
              +2
              So who was Jack the Ripper, and reporters suspected poor Van Gogh
    2. Sergey S.
      Sergey S. 4 June 2020 13: 53 New
      +4
      Quote: Trilobite Master
      who comes up with such nonsense ... seriously it is impossible to do this without prejudice to one’s own psyche

      Gold words.
      It’s dangerous to read it before dinner.
    3. Engineer
      Engineer 4 June 2020 14: 37 New
      +3
      Stalin and Beria were homosexual

      Stalin and Khrushchev. Already had the main postmodernist of Russia
      1. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 4 June 2020 15: 53 New
        +4
        Again, one does not interfere with the other.
        And who is the main postmodernist? Did Viktyuk set the play? laughing
        1. Engineer
          Engineer 4 June 2020 15: 56 New
          +3
          The country must know the heroes in person)

          Vladimir Sorokin
          Some will say that the main Victor Olegovich, but he is much less hardcore
          1. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 4 June 2020 16: 32 New
            +3
            Quote: Engineer
            Vladimir Sorokin

            I have not read, I have not seen, I do not know. Vicki says. that they tried to prosecute him for pornography ... Something like Henry Miller?
            1. Engineer
              Engineer 4 June 2020 16: 50 New
              +4
              How much cooler. Miller is a dull degradant. And this hero cannot be denied a riot of thoughts
              1. Trilobite Master
                Trilobite Master 4 June 2020 17: 14 New
                +3
                Quote: Engineer
                Miller is a dull degradant.

                You made several mistakes in the word "degenerate". smile
                In general, it seemed to me that Miller personifies the ultimate degree of moral decline, abomination and disgust caused. It turns out that there is still the next stage - the same thing, but with imagination. laughing
                Pulls on a meme.
                “It can't be worse.”
                “Maybe if you do it with imagination.”
                laughing
                1. Engineer
                  Engineer 4 June 2020 17: 41 New
                  +3
                  Maybe if you do it with imagination.

                  That's right, Miller's abomination is boring. This is a modernist decadence, banal shocking that has become the second skin fused with the first. And here is the postmodern manifesto to the last penny. The name itself - "Blue bacon" leaves no chance for the miserable mattress, turning his books into reading books for grandmothers.
                  1. Trilobite Master
                    Trilobite Master 4 June 2020 18: 38 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Engineer
                    modernist decadence,

                    Quote: Engineer
                    postmodern manifesto

                    Everything, I pass. smile
                    However, Denis, you are strong to express yourself, look, banned smile
                    Just in case, I will not read Voronin, well, him, all of a sudden this postmodernism is transmitted through letters. A manifest or decadence pops up on the body, then go to the venereologist for injections. smile
                    When I was a student, there was such a curse to us - "post-decadent surrealist".
                    1. vladcub
                      vladcub 4 June 2020 20: 56 New
                      +1
                      Michael, in vain deny that it is evil. Now Voronin dipped in shit
                      1. Trilobite Master
                        Trilobite Master 4 June 2020 21: 36 New
                        0
                        Thrown into a thorn bush? smile
          2. Astra wild
            Astra wild 4 June 2020 17: 49 New
            0
            "that the main one is Viktor Olegovich" He has enough intelligence and decency not to stain himself with such vomit
  • Operator
    Operator 4 June 2020 13: 22 New
    -4
    A historically correct article - at the helm of state power in Russia from February 1917 to July 1918 four political forces managed to change:
    after the February coup d'état, henchmen of big capital (represented by the Central Military Industrial Committee, not Masons), who formed the Provisional Committee of the State Duma (which was dissolved under the tsar), led by the cadets, the Provisional Government headed by Kerensky and the Petrograd Soviet chapter with the Mensheviks;
    after the October coup d'état - the protégés of Germany the Bolsheviks and the generals of the Military and Naval Ministries who supported them, who formed the new Provisional Government;
    after the January coup d'état, the political union of the Bolsheviks and Left Social Revolutionaries, who dispersed the Constituent Assembly, made peace with Germany and established a workers 'and peasants' dictatorship;
    after the July coup d'état, the party of the Bolsheviks who dispersed their leftist Socialist Revolutionary political allies and established a proletarian dictatorship.

    The generals were removed from power immediately after the October coup, in which the main striking units were not the Workers' / Red Guards, but regular military units removed from the Northern Front and deployed from Finland with field artillery, against which the cadet units could not do anything in St. Petersburg and Moscow (the main military force of the opposing side), armed only with small arms.

    In general, the joint plan of the Central Committee of the RSDLP (b) and the General Staff of the Russian Army prevented the collapse of Russia (with the exception of the withdrawal of autonomous Finland and Poland, which even under the tsar was promised self-determination after the end of the WWII). The Bolsheviks who came to power compensated for the territorial losses after 28 years, restoring the country's sovereignty over the Kuril Islands and Southern Sakhalin, as well as through the annexation of Galicia, Bukovina, Transcarpathia and parts of East Prussia.

    At the same time, Russia's geopolitical rivals — the German, Austro-Hungarian, Ottoman, Japanese and British empires, and the French colonial system — were eliminated.

    Plus, the cherry on the cake - the creation of the world's largest nuclear missile potential by the end of the 1980s.

    Now on the agenda is the elimination of the penultimate geopolitical rival of Russia - the United States with the restoration of the country's territorial integrity in parts of Little Russia, Belarus, Moldova, the Baltic states, Transcaucasia, Kazakhstan and Central Asia.
    1. vladcub
      vladcub 4 June 2020 16: 53 New
      +2
      "The generals were removed from power immediately after the October coup d'état" Oh, how not nice Lenin acted: the generals, you understand, everything was prepared, Kerensky was driven out, and Lenin immediately went to Gotovinkoe? What a bjaka he was, when the generals took the oath down the toilet, did not sleep at night, the Provisional Government was overthrown, where was Lenin?
    2. Astra wild
      Astra wild 4 June 2020 17: 45 New
      +1
      "after the October coup d'état" for you, perhaps, a coup, and for those who REALLY LOVE OUR MOTHERLAND, the USSR, THE GREAT OCTOBER REVOLUTION
      1. Operator
        Operator 4 June 2020 17: 58 New
        0
        Russia is my homeland.
  • BAI
    BAI 4 June 2020 13: 51 New
    +3
    They settled on the Bolshevik party, which was gaining strength and influence.

    The Bolsheviks at that time were nobody and no way to call. The dominant idea was the Constituent Assembly.
    The author in the footsteps of one of the Samsonovs hit an alternative story. For the coup, the General Staff is absolutely not needed. No military charter or any other military document indicates how to raise the masses to overthrow the power of their own Government.
    1. Astra wild
      Astra wild 4 June 2020 17: 39 New
      0
      "it is not written in the charter", are you sure of that? Fursov has a different opinion on this matter.
    2. gsev
      gsev 10 June 2020 20: 00 New
      0
      Quote: BAI
      The dominant idea was the Constituent Assembly.

      The dominant idea was the desire to rob the land of the landlords and divide among those who cultivate it. When the Constituent Assembly refused to confirm the land decree, its dissolution became inevitable.
  • +5
    +5 4 June 2020 16: 17 New
    -3
    A very adequate version, explains a lot .... I read this for the first time about 6-7 years ago.
  • +5
    +5 4 June 2020 16: 25 New
    -1
    Here it is also interesting what happened AFTER ... and then the embassies and trade missions somehow suspiciously quickly moved to the side of the "revolutionaries", and the success of the revolution was ensured not least by the transition to its side of the railways ... and even plans for industrialization and even collectivization, almost under tracing paper from the plans of the then tsarist times, the fin-tanks and even the personalities are the same.
  • vladcub
    vladcub 4 June 2020 16: 42 New
    +2
    Quote: parusnik
    There are a lot of questions to the article ... an owl on the globe ...

    Alexey, + the author has too vivid imagination
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild 4 June 2020 17: 36 New
    +2
    "since a new war will begin in 20 years" is a masterpiece: NOBODY and Hitler including, in February March 1917 it was impossible to foresee what would happen in 1939 and then 1941, and General Polivanov already knew. Was his time machine hidden in his desk or a clairvoyant?
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild 4 June 2020 17: 52 New
    +1
    Quote: Pashhenko Nikolay
    Alternative history? Oh well. And then we all are looking somewhere, who is rewriting history.

    Who transcribes and encourages + scribes
  • tank64rus
    tank64rus 4 June 2020 19: 26 New
    +2
    Almost the entire General Staff went to the Bolsheviks, 80% of naval officers and 60% of the army served in the Red Army. Previously, these numbers were taboo. After all, the whole class theory was falling apart. Without military specialists it would have been impossible to create a Red Army. These are the words of Lenin.
    1. ser56
      ser56 4 June 2020 21: 14 New
      +1
      Quote: tank64rus
      Without military specialists, it would be impossible to create a Red Army.

      they were repaired in 1930 - Operation Spring ...
  • Olddetractor
    Olddetractor 4 June 2020 21: 05 New
    +4
    And the stories are all more wonderful and wonderful. There were already Finnish special forces, 300 American gangsters led by Trotsky with the money of Jacob Schiff. Now a patriotic general. What to expect next? I guess. the topic of the Chinese is not sufficiently disclosed: 400 bronze fighters, a special army of the Rumfront with Jonah Yakir, a fist of dark power Yin, a drunken master, an iron monkey ... Indeed, it wasn’t Russian inhabitants who arranged it all
  • ser56
    ser56 4 June 2020 21: 13 New
    +2
    ". The State Duma formed the Provisional Government, which began the collapse of the state and the army." Order No. 1 "was issued, in" the order was issued not by the Duma, but by the Petrosovet ... request
    As for the generals, they did a great stupid thing - the country under IN2 successfully went to victory in WW1, which is why the British sponsored the coup ... request And having entered into an alliance with the Bolsheviks — he showed his complete political stupidity — they plunged the country into insanity for 70 years ... request
  • DWG1905
    DWG1905 5 June 2020 02: 25 New
    0
    Extremely naive article. Actually, the GRU in the form and understanding of how it is now beginning to take shape after 1917, and there was no name for it. Therefore, there were no crowds of tsarist intelligence generals helping the revolutionaries because of their absence. Actually, tsarist military intelligence is mainly intelligence intelligence. Naturally, in those conditions it was convenient to send agents under the legend of a revolutionary, it is possible that someone worked in the RSDLP (b) and helped militarily, and maybe made contacts with the party’s leadership in order to obtain information through a foreign party structure. That is, most likely the usual routine work was carried out. And you don’t need to portray the Bolsheviks as fools, they are mainly bright talented people, they have dealt mainly on their own by creating party cells in the troops and by persuading the troops to their side or ensuring their non-interference. The history of 1917 is all painted over, who in the mess had the best organization, was able to obtain financial resources, offered the peasants a simple solution to the land issue that power took it.
  • Yurahip
    Yurahip 5 June 2020 02: 29 New
    0
    Yeah, straight unknown fathers, nonsense!
  • datura23
    datura23 5 June 2020 08: 40 New
    +1
    the state built by oath-criminals cannot stand for a long time and the people who follow them will not be happy. In the year 17 and in the army of 91 they committed a violation of the oath-oath! with rare exceptions. There can be no excuse.
  • disyptiformer
    disyptiformer 5 June 2020 12: 07 New
    +1
    They betrayed the Tsar, broke our "Great Game", destroyed all the accumulations of Russia, it is impossible to count the damage from their actions. Thank God, grandfather Stalin has been cleaning them with the Aido-Budenovites since 1934. Comrade Count Ignatiev will not let you lie. Citizen V.V.P continues the imperial movement. Hope lit up.
    It is clear why they put anti-Maidan in Kharkov. Personalities in History ...
  • orcinus
    orcinus 5 June 2020 13: 30 New
    +1
    I have another question here. Recently, it has become "fashionable" to say that the tsar was somehow autistic - he did not listen to anyone, he strained everyone with his illiteracy, and around the citizens only thought that about Russia. They did not reform the fleet before the start of WWI - the tsar is to blame, they did not prepare strategic supplies of food and ammunition - the tsar again, the Brusilov breakthrough was successful - this is another matter: the tsar, apparently, was asleep or was in a drug-induced coma, Poland was given back - the tsar again. I agree, here someone wrote in the comments that the power of the tsarist elite was over, there was no one to defend it in an organized way, the same was true for the interim government.
  • Guazdilla
    Guazdilla 5 June 2020 14: 28 New
    +1
    Comrade, just don’t need la la.
    We know from history that the Red Army defeated under the leadership of Trotsky, Frunze, Blucher, Budyonny, Chapaev, second lieutenant (Marshal) Tukhachevsky.
    And where is the key bunch of Stalin-Voroshilov?
  • captain
    captain 5 June 2020 18: 14 New
    +1
    Vanity, a thirst for power, a desire to rise above all, greed and lack of foresight of the then elite, led to the February Revolution. But Oktyabrskaya was only a continuation of a more radical, and very sad for the history of our country in the long run. Compared to 1914, they lost 4 million square kilometers of territory.
  • Vicontas
    Vicontas 5 June 2020 19: 19 New
    +3
    Beautiful fairy tale! If this continues, we will soon read how Nicholas II personally ran ahead of the shell from the Aurora's salvo in order to be the first to storm the Winter Palace!
  • Awaz
    Awaz 6 June 2020 13: 40 New
    0
    quite certainly possible, but in fact by October 17 in Russia there was no longer a capable government capable of somehow managing the country. The Bolsheviks, by the way, until the year 17 were none at all. Nobody really took them seriously. They somehow began to appear already during that year, and they especially did not have any influence. And at the Congress of Soviets, where Lenin managed to seize power, the Bolsheviks won not alone, but in a serious coalition with all kinds of anarchists and all sorts of strange trends of those years. The fact that the Bolsheviks managed to occupy the most significant posts, probably because other movements simply did not have adequate people to rule the country.
    By the way, not everyone knows, but Lenin incognito got to the congress fearing not so much the police, but his party members of the Trotskyites. Some important American newspapers came out after the coup in Russia with headlines that Trotsky now rules Russia.