In LDN they forget who they are fighting and who is killing their children

Hello from LNR

In the LPR there was a significant scandal. The director of one of the Lugansk secondary schools, a certain Lyudmila Bryantseva, designed an avatar in her Facebook account, a frame with the inscription in Ukrainian “Dyakuy Mamo!”, Distinct Ukrainian symbols and symbols of the Russophobic and nationalist party “Ukrainian Galician Party”. What exactly the teacher and the official pushed to such an unexpected act is not known, however, the act was noticed and even appreciated on local television, devoting a short story to Bryantseva. As a result, the woman hurried to remove the scandalous photo, replacing it with something patriotic.

After studying the accounts on social networks, it turned out that the director of the secondary school, and therefore a member of the public movement "World of Luhansk", actively travels to Ukraine, visiting Kiev, Odessa and other cities; constantly communicates with Ukrainians and generally clearly perceives Ukraine as a near abroad. Or maybe even experiencing tender feelings for Kiev, whose army shells the peaceful quarters of LDNR almost daily.

Spy mania? But what if!

Of course, the question is not about the inappropriate avatar, which could well be the trick of a not very smart woman (although what she does in this case as the principal, is also interesting). The fact is that, being an official of the Lugansk People’s Republic, she must be a priori perceived in Ukraine as an accomplice to terrorists. And in Lugansk, in turn, it should cause some interest on the part of the leadership of the Ministry of Education and even special services, because usually the visits of officials to Ukraine end with an arrest on that side and article 258-3 with very real terms of 7 years and above. However, in this situation, a person has been actively traveling in Ukraine for several years and reports about this, as well as about his activity as a school director, in social networks. In theory, all these voyages should have ended in major troubles long ago, but no - in order to draw attention to their modest person, it was necessary to place the Bandera logo on their page.

There is no point in constructing conspiracy theories and reflecting on whether the director of the Lugansk school No. 8 was friends with the SBU or if she simply has an inexhaustible love of visiting Kiev. This, in theory, should be dealt with by Lugansk "Chekists". The fact itself is more interesting here: the number of LDNR residents who consider it the norm to travel to Ukraine to work or relax is gradually growing. Yes, basically these are those who stayed in 2014-2015 with relatives in Ukraine or in the Russian Federation and simply did not see the war and cannot imagine it. And yet - the trend is not only alarming, but also absurd.

For them, the war is over

Moreover, the problem, alas, is not limited to the irresponsible population who do not care about the war crimes of Kiev and the dying fellow countrymen. Here, to a large extent, the patriotic upbringing of the youth is largely failed - the obsessive window dressing often causes rejection. And the inevitable consequences of the ambiguity of the Minsk agreements, which exist only on paper. And the general lack of understanding of the future - not only how it will look, but also faith in the very fact of its presence.

In fact, the population in LDNR was divided into those who still live in 2014 (even if they are included in the category of guard patriots who annually announce the imminent and inevitable “drain”), and those who live in a separate reality, limited to the central regions remote from the war cities. And if nothing changes in the foreseeable future, then the consumer society will begin to prevail over the “ideological” population. And then such directors combining work for the republic with love for Ukraine will be a dime a dozen, and with them the meaning of what is happening will dry up ...

In this situation, I really want to believe that Lugansk and Donetsk will change their minds and begin to take feasible steps aimed at acting out the situation. Otherwise, after just a few years, the majority of the population will simply not understand that it is booming over the horizon.

Comments

[Thrifty]

This is a flaw in the local media! It was necessary for a long time to remove at least the serial, about what is really happening in the Donbass, so that as many people as possible could see the truth not with false words. But Madame Sow needs to be interrogated so that the points know this is due to the lack of a brain in her head, or she’s just an o-oaina shepherd that is breaking apart the Donbass from the inside.

[Tatyana]

Schools and schoolchildren need to be protected from traitors-presumptuous in consumerism and limited by their own conscientiousness and reason among the teacher-pedagogical corps!
For it is known: “If you want to defeat the enemy, raise his children!”
School is not an empty place! This is a training ground for children, either for the future happy development of their country, or for ditching their own homeland.

[Basil50]

You are not right.
This is the result of many years of suggestion of the elite of dill.
Look and Belarusian Lukashenko also began songs about the elite of Belarusians.
Nazism in Europe has flourished for a long time, for centuries, and it’s part of * European culture * and * European values ​​* Balts, Georgians, Armenians, Azerbaijanis, now Ukrainians with Belarusians.
And we all about * fraternity ...... * about what they need ........., and even kaaak will be offended. Well, at the same time they will join NATO or something else will come up to spoil RUSSIA and every RUSSIAN.

[lukewarm]

I agree absolutely about schools and students. But what miracle will it happen? How does the LDNR differ from the Russian Federation in terms of education? Or vice versa? We have exactly the same problems. They just don't shoot yet. When they start, I wonder where the "Kolya-Urengoysky", his teachers and admirers will run?

[Normal ok]

Quote: Thrifty

This is a flaw in the local media! It was necessary for a long time to remove at least the serial, about what is really happening in the Donbass, so that as many people as possible could see the truth not with false words.

Do you think that people in Donbass receive information about Donbass "from false ukrosmi" ?! They, unlike you, live there! Infu from the false media is received mainly by those who are drowning here "for the war to the bitter end."

But Madame Sow needs to be interrogated, so that the points know this is from the lack of a brain in the head, or she’s just an o-oaina swan

There are simply those who use propaganda in concentrations dangerous to the brain and those who see the world as it is. And the fact that many teenagers from LDNR (including the children of leaders) are studying in Ukrainian universities has long been no secret.

[Voldemar]

I agree, "every sandpiper praises his own swamp," everyone is tired of the war, and, I think, in the LPNR, in the first place. In Ukraine, very few people are interested in it (worries)

[Aleksandr21]

Quote: Thrifty

This is a flaw in the local media! It was necessary for a long time to remove at least the serial, about what is really happening in the Donbass, so that as many people as possible could see the truth not with false words. But Madame Sow needs to be interrogated so that the points know this is due to the lack of a brain in her head, or she’s just an o-oaina shepherd that is breaking apart the Donbass from the inside.

In the Russian media - Donbass is now a forbidden topic, because according to the Minsk agreements, LDNR should be part of Ukraine. And the people of Donbass can understand that the war has been going on for 6 years, people are tired of the war and they don’t care if it is Ukraine or Russia, because the cities / villages are destroyed, the infrastructure is destroyed, neither any living standard nor who wants to live (from the younger generation) in such conditions? What is the future of Donbass? Transnistria ....? This is not what people wanted, but people wanted to follow the path of Crimea, home to Russia, but ours were afraid of the consequences and froze the conflict. Now in Russia - Donbass is not waiting, and trying to replay everything back. This is a very sad story .... even if we manage to force Ukraine to comply with the Minsk agreements and give Donbas wide autonomy, in 10-20 years, the localization of the local population will happen, as happened with Odessa, Kharkov, etc. and nothing good will be).

[CSKA]

Quote: Aleksandr21

In the Russian media - Donbass is now a taboo topic

What do you grind? What is the forbidden topic? What kind of program or political show do not take everywhere remember, and in the news.

Quote: Aleksandr21

because according to the Minsk agreements, LDNR should become part of Ukraine

Everyone has long understood that no one is going to fulfill them, and you all hope?))))

Quote: Aleksandr21

people are tired of the war and it will no longer matter if it is Ukraine or Russia

As some people like to speak for the whole nation. Have you interviewed the entire population of Donbass?

Quote: Aleksandr21

because cities / villages are destroyed, infrastructure is destroyed

Have you ever been to the Donbass? What cities are destroyed there? They love in the Russian Federation to exaggerate the scale of this war.

Quote: Aleksandr21

what standard of living and who wants to live (from the younger generation) in such conditions?

That's how my friends live and don’t complain and get from 25 to 35 thousand.

Quote: Aleksandr21

What is the future of Donbass? Transnistria ....?

Perhaps, and perhaps Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

Quote: Aleksandr21

Now in Russia - Donbass is not waiting, and trying to replay everything back.

Another nonsense. How to replay? By issuing passports of the Russian Federation? Or sponsored by LDNR?

Quote: Aleksandr21

how it happened with Odessa, Kharkov, etc.

)))) And you probably only arrived from Odessa and Kharkov?
Another couch analyst.

[bayard]

Quote: CSKA

Have you ever been to the Donbass? What cities are destroyed there? They love in the Russian Federation to exaggerate the scale of this war.

Have you been in the Donbass for a long time?
In Gorlovka?
In the suburbs of Donetsk?
In the airport area?
In the Petrovsky district?
Very persistent and hardworking people live in Donetsk, the consequences of the bombing and shelling of 2014 and 2015. in many ways ... not even eliminated, but covered up.

Quote: CSKA

That's how my friends live and don’t complain and get from 25 to 35 thousand.

I'm glad for your friends, but believe me, there are not many such lucky ones. Finding a job with a double salary, or even three times less, is very difficult.
Highly .
And if cafes and restaurants work in the center of Donetsk, this does not mean that everything is fine in the city. It’s just the center of the city.

[CSKA]

Quote: bayard

Have you been in the Donbass for a long time?

February.

Quote: bayard

In Gorlovka?

I haven’t been there for a long time.

Quote: bayard

In the suburbs of Donetsk?

Quote: bayard

In the airport area?

Quote: bayard

In the Petrovsky district?

It depends on which. In the summer of 2017 was on Toads, Spartak. January 2020 October, Petrovka.

Quote: bayard

Very persistent and hardworking people live in Donetsk, the consequences of the bombing and shelling of 2014 and 2015. in many ways ... not even eliminated, but covered up.

I completely agree with you, but this is not such a scale as some forum users are trying to present. With their description of the destruction as if in Stalingrad.

Quote: bayard

I'm glad for your friends, but believe me, there are not many such lucky ones. Finding a job with a double salary, or even three times less, is very difficult.

Of course, not everyone has such salaries, but less than 8 thousand. I do not know people., And those who get 8 thousand. I know only two people. But this does not mean that there is no standard of living.

Quote: bayard

And if cafes and restaurants work in the center of Donetsk, this does not mean that everything is fine in the city. It’s just the center of the city.

The city on the outskirts of which there are skirmishes a priori cannot be considered a city where everything is fine. I have never written this anywhere.

[Vladimir Kiev]

And tell me, dear, that such a bad thing is happening in Odessa and Kharkov ??

[Vladimir Kiev]

And tell us in more detail what happened so bad with Odessa and Kharkov?
As they lived, they live like that. And in the Donbass it would be the same.

[syndicalist]

Quote: Thrifty

This is a flaw in the local media! It was necessary for a long time to remove at least the serial, about what really happens in the Donbass

It turns out just to manipulate cattle. Filmed the series - and all things!

[P. Makarov]

Well, in Ukraine they have been manipulating for how many years and nothing: hawala.

[bayard]

Quote: Thrifty

It was necessary for a long time to remove at least the serial, about what is really happening in the Donbass, so that as many people as possible saw

Are you serious ? Make a series so that we ... know what's going on here? In the seventh year of the war? When we constantly hear "Minsk-2" from different barrels and people are periodically killed and maimed?
You do not confuse people and authorities. These authorities have imposed on us "curators" by agreements with those very ... "Ukrainian business" ... And nobody chose them.
Donbass rose to protest, and then to war for its language, the memory of its ancestors, against refined, absolute fascism and for unity with Russia.
But Russia had enough of Crimea.
So ?
So .
Everything else is lyrics.
Some have a war of 6 years and people die, while others give serials.
And these madame were put in the headmistress by the very power that the "curators" gave us.
By agreement.
So maybe the agreements were just about such "directors"? And those like them?
The warring people did not choose either the authorities or these "directors"; it is not for them that they shed blood and endure the hardships and deprivations of war.
Maybe the author put the wrong accents?
Maybe I saw a reason there?

[Hunter 2]

Stockholm Syndrome, or rather, its transformation .... I am not a psychiatrist, but ... in My opinion this is not Normal!

[vik669]

Yes, there is also the rest of the territory from the end of the 80s of the XX century, such as the Russian-Ukrainian phrasebook with the signature stamp of chipboard began, and when I asked in Kharkov - and this is on kuya, my friends and colleagues were embarrassed, but the result is obvious!

[zenion]

The exact same friends were from Germany. Station Vapnyarka. Around the train. The government is trying to get the people out of the blows of the war. A plane with German crosses appears. Throws leaflets and small wrapped chocolates. It is written on the leaflets - return home and meet the liberators from Germany. Half an hour passed and several planes arrived with a squeal and a roar. At first they threw a bomb at a steam locomotive, and then they started bombarding people and shooting at people. There were many killed and wounded, and they were refined in this way for an hour and a half. Then a Soviet plane appeared in the sky and the Germans washed off. These were the liberators, that in 1941, that in 2020.

[Mik13]

... The fact is that, being an official of the Lugansk People’s Republic, she should be a priori perceived in Ukraine as an accomplice to terrorists. And in Lugansk, in turn, it should cause some interest on the part of the leadership of the Ministry of Education and even special services, because usually the visits of officials to Ukraine end with arrest on that side and article 258-3 with very real terms of 7 years or more ...

Today's Yegor, apparently, was not in the LPR again. We can write a lot of good things about our respected Ukrainian partners in the political process, but they have not yet touched teachers (including school directors).
Moreover, those civil servants of the LPR (and the DPR) to whom the Ukrainian security forces may have claims, the border guards of the LPR (and the DPR) simply will not be allowed to enter Ukraine. You have to go through Russia.

As for the strange political preferences of some characters, it’s so strange and even surprising, but LDNR differs from Ukraine in that the political views themselves are not grounds for discrimination.

There is no point in constructing conspiracy theories and reflecting on whether the director of the Lugansk school No. 8 was friends with the SBU or if she simply has an inexhaustible love of visiting Kiev. This, in theory, should be dealt with by Lugansk "Chekists".

More terrible than a "couch warrior" can only be a "couch counterintelligence" ...

[The leader of the Redskins]

I once wrote (having earned a couple of dozen minuses) that an ordinary Ukrainian resident absolutely does not have hatred for a simple resident of LDNR. To the miner, teacher, driver, worker and housewife ...
All the negativity is directed towards those who are armed, who broadcast not always truthful news from the screens, who pour water on their neighbors with sewage.
And rightly so, they are not allowed. When I was visiting my father, I did not meet such. But he talked with one former miner. He settled in Kiev in Metrostroy. An ordinary hard worker. The common thing in our conversation was that this war should not have happened! And languages, political moments, incitement to hatred ... That’s all from the evil one.

[Insurgent]

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

I once wrote (having earned a couple of dozens of minuses) that an ordinary Ukrainian resident does not have hatred for a simple resident of LDNR. To the miner, teacher, driver, worker and housewife ...

But how much "Extraordinary Ukrainian residents","NOT hating"Shredding Donbass ...

I believe that the cons were fair.

[Vladimir Ilyich]

When Molotov cocktails flew on the Maidan to Berkut and everyone expected that right now the miners would come, hard workers and stop the chaos of this bunch of thugs, they would already come ... but they didn’t come, they said; we have no time to go on strike, we need to feed our families and took up arms only when Bandera shells began to fly to them in the window. What does this mean? And the fact that the population of these republics is far from being entirely composed of our Russian brothers, being a part of an independent one left a certain imprint on the consciousness and mentality of these people. They can think in Russian, speak Russian and at the same time have the mentality of a cunning crest of a dumb and greedy freebie, rejoicing that a cow has died from a neighbor. The years spent as part of an independent one did not pass without leaving a trace, so you can understand the bewilderment of volunteers from Russia who came to fight for the independence of these republics, seeing how the locals were marching on enemy territory as if nothing had happened and fraternizing with those who were shelling them. Could you imagine this in 1941?

[Insurgent]

Quote: Vladimir Ilyich

When Molotov cocktails flew on the Maidan to Berkut and everyone expected that right now the miners would come, hard workers and stop the chaos of this bunch of thugs, they would already come ... but they didn’t come, they said; we have no time to go on strike, we need to feed our families and took up arms only when Bandera shells began to fly to them in the window.

Or maybe all because I was not going to fall such "square" , what did she complete in time for 2014? (This is my private motive, my opinion)

And why should we, exclusively "Donetsk miners" do this, and not the people of Kiev, Kharkov, and the rest of the ex-Ukraine?

[Alex Nevs]

Correctly. Donbass stood for itself, for its territory. And let their horses defend their territory.

[Kronos]

Nobody wanted to go for Yanukovych against the Maidan after his lying and deceived promises

[samarin1969]

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

I once wrote (having earned a couple of dozen minuses) that an ordinary Ukrainian resident absolutely does not have hatred for a simple resident of LDNR. To the miner, teacher, driver, worker and housewife ...
All the negativity is directed towards those who are armed, who broadcast not always truthful news from the screens, who pour water on their neighbors with sewage.
And rightly so, they are not allowed. When I was visiting my father, I did not meet such. But he talked with one former miner. He settled in Kiev in Metrostroy. An ordinary hard worker. The common thing in our conversation was that this war should not have happened! And languages, political moments, incitement to hatred ... That’s all from the evil one.

As a former holder of your Ukrainian passport, I am closely following your comments, Leader. But you still have the "Aydar" philosophy. It seems to all of you that some "people with weapons" have taken something from you. This is not! If you want to join the European Union - go. Just don't drag us along. Donetsk and Crimean people live on their own land and in their own way. You have been pouring sewage over us since 1990. People like you, the Leader, consider it acceptable to intimidate the buses of the Crimean people, mock "Berkut", exile our despicable Yanukovych. You yourself probably did not do this, but you think it is permissible.

The best thing that can happen between "Ukraine" and Russia is minefields and the border along the Dnieper.

[Red Dragon]

And I do not want the border along the Dnieper and minefields, because I live near this Dnieper. Therefore, dear samarin1969, it would be more correct to write that this is the best FOR YOU.

[Insurgent]

Quote: Red Dragon

And I do not want the border along the Dnieper and minefields, because I live near this Dnieper.

"Do not want", it was necessary in 2014, without accepting the" Maidana "and the Nazi power that came on its wave.
Now then what ... humble yourself , From your "I do not want", now nothing depends. Wait until your fate (or fate, as you are lucky) will be decided without you.

[Red Dragon]

And who will decide my fate? Are you respected? Who are you to solve it? God?

[Insurgent]

Quote: Red Dragon

And who will decide my fate? Are you respected? Who are you to solve it? God?

MEMBER IN STOCK that in the modern scenario for the outskirts, even higher than the deity ...

And we decide your fate, since you have rotted so much ...

[Red Dragon]

Well, that means, when you appear near my house, do not blame me, I will shoot at you a little, militia. And let's see who is deity for whom, dear

[Insurgent]

Quote: Red Dragon

Well, that means, when you appear near my house, do not blame me, I will shoot at you a little, militia. And let's see who is deity for whom, dear

You survive in the beginning "warrior of light" , because it is possible that you and your house will not be intentionally (not like you do with us) destroyed ...

And so .. WAIT ...

[Red Dragon]

I don’t do anything with you, dear. Therefore, no questions for me. If you come to me, I will shoot you dear, that’s all.

[Insurgent]

Quote: Red Dragon

If you come to me, I will shoot you dear, that’s all.

Fart fart?

[Red Dragon]

This is what the militia is about. For me, you want to live with the thief MMM-schik Pushilin, live on. It’s just not necessary to drag your MMM here, dear militia.

[CSKA]

Quote: Red Dragon

This is what the militia is about. For me, you want to live with the thief MMM-schik Pushilin, live on. It’s just not necessary to drag your MMM here, dear militia.

Do not worry. You don’t have to bring anyone to your place. Yes, and we are not going to go to you. You just need to take your land. And if anyone comes to you, it will already be the troops of the Russian Federation, and then they will already be with us, and possibly with some of your former ones.

[Red Dragon]

The troops of the Russian Federation. Well, the Crimean version, this is a little different. The main thing is not to create more incomprehensible sub-republics, with thieves and rogues at the head.

[CSKA]

Quote: Red Dragon

Well, the Crimean version, this is a little different.

This time, the Crimean version will definitely not be.
Yes, I generally think that you will not have Russian troops, but they will be in the Donbass, Kharkov. But Dnepropetrovsk, Odessa, Zaporozhye, I think yours yourself will be disconnected.

[Red Dragon]

Who are yours? I live in Zaporozhye respected, where are you going to disconnect me? Do unfinished ZNR? Dismiss, train on cats. Any, Ukraine is a country recognized in the world, and these misunderstandings of the DPR and LPR, with MMMs at the head, is that?

[CSKA]

Quote: Red Dragon

Who are yours? I live in Zaporozhye respected, where are you going to disconnect me?

)))) Yes, no one was going to disconnect you yet. I mean something else. For example, a US protege who will not suit Kolomoisky or Pinchuk or Akhmetov will come to power in Kiev now. Their main assets are in the Dnipropetrovsk and Zaporizhzhya regions. or they quarrel with Avakov, or the Nazis. And they want to make a coup or a federation. Do you think they do not have enough strength and ability to raise people in these areas?

Quote: Red Dragon

Do unfinished ZNR? Dismiss, train on cats. Any, Ukraine is a country recognized in the world, and these misunderstandings of the DPR and LPR, with MMMs at the head, is that?

An unfinished country is Ukraine. With a fictional story and people. And I tell you this as a person who won the history olympiad at school and as a citizen of (so far) Ukraine. Taiwan is recognized as 20 countries that you probably haven’t heard of, but this does not prevent it from being an economically developed state and trading with everyone.
Personally, I would like for the Southeast regions to become part of the Russian Federation, but I understand perfectly well that so far I can’t take and deploy troops into these territories of the Russian Federation.

[Alex Nevs]

And why did you decide that Donbass will be near your home? Yours themselves will dance you.

[Red Dragon]

Do not understand. You yourself will dance you, what does it mean? And Donbass is already near my house. Neighboring area.

[Alex Nevs]

Whoever pays a girl dances her ..... and so on ...

[Red Dragon]

Well, this expression is absolute, at all times. Initially, I answered dear comrades that we do not need to do anything similar to the DPR LPR. In this version, in which they exist now, this is the best anti-advertising.

[CSKA]

Quote: Red Dragon

In this version, in which they exist now, this is the best anti-advertising.

Have you ever been to LDNR? Or is your opinion based on ukrosmi?

[Red Dragon]

I have not been to LDNR. I form my opinion on the basis of information from various sources. There are friends from Donetsk who after 2014 live in Zaporozhye and periodically visit their homeland. About Taiwan. Unfortunately, there are big doubts about this option, for various reasons, this is a topic of great debate. About the story. I won not only school, but also regional history olympiads, and your opinion about the absence of Ukraine is at least debatable to me. Sincerely.

[CSKA]

Quote: Red Dragon

I have not been to LDNR. I form my opinion on the basis of information from various sources. There are friends from Donetsk who after 2014 live in Zaporozhye and periodically visit their homeland.

Okay. Here everyone has their own opinion. I don’t know what standard of living your acquaintances had before the war, and I doubt very much that while they were in Ukraine they could say something good about LDNR.

Quote: Red Dragon

About Taiwan. Unfortunately, there are big doubts about this option, for various reasons, this is a topic of great debate.

I agree. I’ll give another example. The PMR in terms of living standards is no worse than Moldova, or maybe in some ways better, and if it also bordered on the Russian Federation, then the standard of living would have been much higher.

Quote: Red Dragon

About the story. I won not only school, but also regional history olympiads, and your opinion about the absence of Ukraine is at least debatable to me.

Do you think that Ukraine is not an artificially created country? Did Lenin accidentally create it? These creatures, which he should tear down monuments to him, because this, to put it mildly, not an intelligent person, created the Ukrainian SSR and, in addition, gave a heap of land. Half of the Donbass initially entered the Land of the Don Don. Crimea and the southern Black Sea region were the lands of the Crimean Khanate until the Russian Empire conquered them in the 18th century. Kharkov and Sumy were founded as border fortresses of the Moscow kingdom. In the documents of Pereyaslavskaya are glad about Ukraine not a word. and in general, where did this people come from? Do not tell? Or can I believe finished Ruslana, what from the Sumerian?)))))))

[Red Dragon]

You have a very peculiar attitude to information in Ukraine, Sergey. Here the information is presented in very different ways, there are channels of type 1 + 1, there are channels of Mr. Medvedchuk -112, NewsOne and others, I have a dozen Russian channels, a satellite. If for you the standard of living in the PMR is considered normal, for me it does not seem so. By the way, how much has the population of the PMR decreased since 1991? One and a half times it seems? Do you consider this an indicator of prosperity? In addition, the entire population of the PMR is less than half a million now, this is two-thirds of my Zaporozhye. Providing work for an unrecognized territory is more difficult than recognized, if 250 thousand Abkhazians can survive on tourists and tangerines, then in Ukraine tangerines will not grow. Until 2014, Donetsk favorably differed in living standards from Zaporozhye, but not now. I tend to believe this information.

[Red Dragon]

What does it mean where did the Ukrainian people come from, dear Sergey. By the way, where did the Portuguese people come from for example? From the city of Porto? Portuguese Duchy? Do you know that a lot of people are called from the territories where they live, and here are the Sumerians. Some kind of not-so-smart individual blurted out, you repeat this stupidity. The collapse of Kievan Rus after the Mongol invasion led to the conquest of the greater territory of present-day Ukraine ON (Gedimin, Olgerd) and, afterwards, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. For 3 centuries, left-bank Ukraine, and Right-bank for 4 centuries, lived in different conditions than the territory of Russia, united by the princes of Moscow in the Russian State. Various conditions led to the formation of the Ukrainian people, close to the Russians, but still different. I generally believe that if it were not for the Orthodox faith, the unification of Russia and the left-bank Ukraine would not exist at all. The orders of the Cossack foreman were much closer to the Polish gentry in the 17th century. You can continue for a long time on the creation of nations and peoples dissertations are written.

[Alex Nevs]

I understand you correctly, judging by everything you said .... Do you support the armed coup in Kiev? About fate and economical. the situation of the LPNR is out of the question. Everything is not so simple and good in our country. But "there are no shelling and hostilities" (except for the boundaries of contact). And this is Oooooo very important. Or do you disagree?

[Red Dragon]

In general, I do not support. Moreover, I have been in the Party of Regions since 2003, I was in Kiev on the side of Yanukovych in 2004 in the first Maidan. I did not go to the second. Because I realized that it’s all a circus, for people and money, the very same Yanek leaked and ran away. All politicians are corrupt in Ukraine, live for themselves, put their offspring in bread positions, and why take a steam bath. Some shout to us Europe light in the window, others Russia. And tomorrow they can already change their minds. And the people, for extras.

[CSKA]

Quote: Red Dragon

What does it mean where did the Ukrainian people come from, dear Sergey. By the way, where did the Portuguese people come from for example?

Quote: Red Dragon

Do you know that a lot of peoples are called from the territories where they live

You have interesting logic. That is, if tomorrow propaganda in Ukraine sings a song that Ukrainians are descendants of the Sumerians or Etruscans (and heard this) and rename Ukraine Sumerians or Etruscans, will the Sumerians and Etruscans automatically reappear? If Somali citizens live in Somalia, then did the Somolis abruptly appear? Everything is clear with the Portuguese. A bunch of peoples and Iberians, and Celtiberians, and then the German tribes of the Visigoths and Suevs came there. The situation there is similar to the history of many Western European peoples. But with the Ukrainians it is not clear. There was a single people of the Eastern Slavs, and then after the capture of the ON and Poland of a part of the lands, and their association, suddenly some Ukrainian people appeared, despite the fact that contemporaries did not hear anything about him, and the Poles did not particularly populate these territories.

Quote: Red Dragon

For 3 centuries, left-bank Ukraine, and Right-bank for 4 centuries, lived in different conditions than the territory of Russia, united by the princes of Moscow in the Russian State. Various conditions led to the formation of the Ukrainian people, close to the Russians, but still different.

What are these conditions such that there were no people, but appeared?)))))

Quote: Red Dragon

I generally believe that if it were not for the Orthodox faith, the unification of Russia and the left-bank Ukraine would not exist at all.

But I just do not think that the matter is only in the Orthodox faith. The people then understood that everything had gone from Russia. Some Cossacks simply just wanted more liberties. And what could they have in common with the gentry?

[Red Dragon]

There was no single people of the Eastern Slavs, dear Sergey. It was just being formed. All the same, there were glade, drevlyane, Vyatichi, etc. Feudal fragmentation, or was it not there either? Strongly in the 12th century did Prince Galitsky or Vladimir listen to the Kiev prince? And the Cossacks and the gentry had a lot in common. Khmelnitsky won generally went to war because of his grievances. And he very much swore allegiance to Vladislav, the king of Poland. Jeremiah Vishnevetsky, with whom Khmelnitsky fought, was the heir to the famous Baida Vishnevetsky, the legendary Cossack. And there are many such examples. You do not like the Portuguese, let's take the Icelanders. What are Icelanders like? There are none, there are Norwegians. Return them to their home harbor! And the Belgians, this is undoubtedly part of the Netherlands, ousted by the evil Spaniards. Flanders, so for sure. They have one language. Etc.

[CSKA]

Quote: Red Dragon

There was no single people of the Eastern Slavs, dear Sergey. It was just being formed. All the same, there were glade, drevlyane, Vyatichi, etc.

The people were just there, and the glades and Drevlyans were tribal associations.

Quote: Red Dragon

Feudal fragmentation, or was it not there either? Strongly in the 12th century did Prince Galitsky or Vladimir listen to the Kiev prince?

And how does feudal fragmentation affect the creation of a people? From the fact that Bavaria until the middle of the 19th century was an independent people, the Bavarians did not form. From the fact that Austria is still independent, the people of the Austrians did not appear.

Quote: Red Dragon

And the Cossacks and the gentry had a lot in common. Khmelnitsky won generally went to war because of his grievances. And he very much swore allegiance to Vladislav, the king of Poland. Jeremiah Vishnevetsky, with whom Khmelnitsky fought, was the heir to the famous Baida Vishnevetsky, the legendary Cossack. And there are many such examples.

Different classes. For the gentry, the Cossack is no match. That is why Cossack foremen wanted more independence and land in the Hetman and did not want to return to the Commonwealth (not everything is true).

Quote: Red Dragon

let's take the Icelanders. What are Icelanders like? There are none, there are Norwegians. Return them to their home harbor!

Now, if Icelanders decide that they are Norwegians or Danes and want to return to their native harbor, and Norway or Denmark will not mind, then let them return. If the Germans of Austria decide that they should live in the same country with the Germans of Germany, then no one has the right to ban it. And if the Russian Crimea, Donbass, Odessa and Kharkov, or even Zaporozhye, want to return to Russia, then no one should forbid this to them.
You already decide what we are talking about. Either we are talking about Ukraine, whether it has a right to exist or not, or we are Ukrainians about the people. So far I have not seen any arguments where he came from. According to your arguments, if there is a country then there are people?

Quote: Red Dragon

And the Belgians, this is undoubtedly part of the Netherlands, ousted by the evil Spaniards. Flanders, so for sure. They have one language. Etc.

An example of the Netherlands is not very good. The Netherlands (Holland, Belgium, Luxembourg) went to the Habsburgs through marriage, along with the duchy of Burgundy. The Spaniards never lived there. With this situation, they have rights to the Philippines. Belgium is a fully artificially created state. At the Congress of Vienna, it took some to the head. But in general, Wallonia should be included in France, and Flanders in Holland.

[Red Dragon]

And here I was in Belgium, in Flanders, they don’t want to go to the Netherlands. By the way, they were there in 1815-1830, and disconnected. And where they should go, this is only your opinion, dear Sergey, and nothing more. Registered Cossacks could become a gentry, in addition there was an Orthodox gentry, for example, comrade Sagaidachny, who led the Cossacks. Register Cossacks for rights were already approaching the gentry. I see that the argument is useless, your arguments do not convince me, as well as mine you.

[CSKA]

Quote: Red Dragon

Here the information is presented in very different ways, there are channels of type 1 + 1, there are channels of Mr. Medvedchuk -112, NewsOne and others

Andrew about Ukrainian channels, you can not tell me. I lived in Ukraine for 26 years.

Quote: Red Dragon

If for you the standard of living in the PMR is considered normal, for me it does not seem so.

I didn’t say that, I said that compared with the standard of living in Moldova.

Quote: Red Dragon

By the way, how much has the population of the PMR decreased since 1991? One and a half times it seems? Do you consider this an indicator of prosperity?

)))))))) Actually, in 89 680 thousand, now 470 thousand. Tell you how much the population of Ukraine has decreased? I think you are well aware. And the population of Lithuania decreased by 800 thousand. An excellent indicator of European prosperity. So it seems the matter is still not only whether the country is recognized or not.

Quote: Red Dragon

Providing work for an unrecognized territory is more difficult than recognized, if 250 thousand Abkhazians can hold out on tourists and tangerines for some time, then in Ukraine tangerines will not grow.

So they are not really needed there.)))) You can do without such an industry without mandarin. If LDNR had peacefully disconnected, everything would have worked quietly, but even now the Enakievsky label, and the Enakievsky coke oven, and the Gorlovsky coke oven, and Makeevkoks, and the Khartsyzsk pipe, and Amvrosievsky cement, Dongormash are working.
Take for example your Zaporozhye. For example, it would be an unrecognized republic. A significant part of the PMR budget is filled by the Moldavian Metallurgical Plant. And he was much less Zaporizhstal. Until recently, 80% of Moldova’s demand for electricity was provided by the Moldavian State District Power Plant located in the PMR, which was one of the main sources of export revenue. Similarly, in Zaporozhye can be done. some PMR enterprises work for the military-industrial complex of the Russian Federation, just as Motor Sich could work. In addition, Zaporozhye could sell manganese ore.
So the point is in production, and not in whether the country is recognized or not. China does not recognize Taiwan, but still trades with it.

Quote: Red Dragon

Until 2014, Donetsk favorably differed in living standards from Zaporozhye, but not now. I tend to believe this information.

It is hard to say how much the standard of living is different. Donetsk used to be the second in the average salary. Now I only know the prices in Ukraine, but I do not know, for example, the average salary in Zaporozhye.

[Red Dragon]

The average salary in the Zaporizhzhya region is about 11 thousand UAH. In Zaporozhye itself will be a little higher. And why do you put a decrease in the population of Transnistria at 90 thousand people, if it is more than 200 thousand. Wiki says that the population of Transnistria during the collapse of the Union was about 700 thousand people. The population of Ukraine decreased by 20-25 percent, which is also not ice, but it is still not 50-55 as in Transnistria. I see only worse so far.

[CSKA]

Quote: Red Dragon

The average salary in the Zaporizhzhya region is about 11 thousand UAH. In Zaporozhye itself will be a little higher.

It's not just about money.

Quote: Red Dragon

And why do you put a decrease in the population of Transnistria at 90 thousand people, if it is more than 200 thousand. Wiki says that the population of Transnistria during the collapse of the Union was about 700 thousand people.

Quote: CSKA

Actually, in 89 680 thousand, now 470 thousand. Can you tell me how the population of Ukraine has decreased?

89 is 89.

Quote: Red Dragon

The population of Ukraine decreased by 20-25 percent, which is also not ice, but it is still not 50-55 as in Transnistria.

Well, there was no war throughout Ukraine. Start a civil war throughout the territory and will decrease by another 10-15 million.

[Red Dragon]

That is, you propose to create a wonderful ZNR to arrange a civil war in all of Ukraine? To lose another 10 -15 million people, to lose in wages? What for???

[CSKA]

Quote: Red Dragon

That is, you propose to create a wonderful ZNR to arrange a civil war in all of Ukraine? To lose another 10 -15 million people, to lose in wages? What for???

Andrei, you forgot where the conversation originally started. I’m not just for creating the ZNR, but for joining the Southeast to the Russian Federation. And about the civil war, so I gave an example. Almost 50% of the population left the PMR because of the war, there would be a war in Ukraine and 40-50% of the population would have long left the country. And given my not love for this country, I would be very happy if it started there. I am not much interested in salaries in Zaporozhye, I am only interested in the Russian land and Russian people who must return to their homeland. Because of Lenin, many lands were donated that never belonged to any Ukraine, I gave the examples above, and were certainly not populated by Westerners of Ukraine.

[Red Dragon]

I’m half Russian, half Ukrainian, so should I now be torn? You want a civil war in Ukraine, and at the same time I’m connecting or disconnecting me somewhere, I don’t want to. And the conversation began with the fact that the Crimean option is one thing, and the creation of independent DPR, LPR, ZPR is completely different. And the creation of these independent pseudo-republics, with crooks like Pushilin, is the best anti-advertising for Zaporizhia, the Dnieper, etc.

[CSKA]

Quote: Red Dragon

I’m half Russian, half Ukrainian, so should I now be torn?

Sooner or later, you always have to make a choice. And being a Ukrainian (even if in your version there are such people) does not mean not wanting to live as part of the Russian Federation. I have relatives on the male side of the Volga Region and Kirovograd Region, and my mother and Rovno.

Quote: Red Dragon

You want a civil war in Ukraine, and at the same time I’m connecting or disconnecting me somewhere, I don’t want to.

Your right. I don’t tell you that you would go out tomorrow.

Quote: Red Dragon

And the conversation began with the fact that the Crimean option is one thing, and the creation of independent DPR, LPR, ZPR is completely different. And the creation of these independent pseudo-republics, with crooks like Pushilin, is the best anti-advertising for Zaporizhia, the Dnieper, etc.

Now I see three options for peace in my native land and most people, as they wanted, to join the Russian Federation in 2014 over time.
The first. This will come to power in Ukraine politician who freezes the conflict. The similarity of PMR.
Second. This is if the Ukrainians try to forcefully decide, in response to the Russian Federation, it enters troops and recognizes LDNR. Similarity of Abkhazia and South Ossetia.
Third. Internal conflicts of elites in Ukraine will lead to a civil war, possibly the same as it was in Georgia (short), and possibly also such as in Tajikistan (long). Personally, I would like this only because the creatures in western Ukraine would feel everything in their own skin. Then LDNR could calmly regain its territory and the conflict would freeze in the east.
And the option with the Crimean spring or the creation of the ZNR will no longer be unfortunately. Nobody will let the people rise now.

[Red Dragon]

Well, let's stop there. Do you like living in unrecognized republics, live as you like. Good luck

[Vladimir Kiev]

Keep

[Insurgent]

Quote: Mik13

Today's Yegor, apparently, was not in the LPR again.

With what "today's Egor" differs from "of yesterday"who wrote a lot of horror stories about the DPR and LPR, and which did not come true?

Quote: Mik13

More terrible than a "couch warrior" can only be a "couch counterintelligence" ...

And a sofa (office) journalist writing about what he himself did not see.

Just like Kovtun, a bald "political scientist" whom Solovyov constantly kicked for telling him from Moscow how it was on the outskirts and even the DPR and LPR

[Avior]

The fact is that, being an official of the Luhansk People's Republic

The headmaster is not an official, but an employee, albeit in the public sector.

[Insurgent]

Quote: Avior

The headmaster is not an official, but an employee, albeit in the public sector.

To the author, to such "trifles" apparently on a drum, because the main thing is to "the verb burned" ...
And after - even the grass does not grow.

[your1970]

Quote: Avior

The fact is that, being an official of the Luhansk People's Republic

The headmaster is not an official, but an employee, albeit in the public sector.

This is in Russia - and there he may well be a government official, as for example in the USSR ....

[CSKA]

Quote: Mik13

More terrible than a "couch warrior" can only be a "couch counterintelligence".

[Kronos]

And what is the problem for people to travel to Ukraine? Many relatives there, property is that everything to give up?

[Basil50]

The problem is in the marginal Nazis. Do not be naive.

[Kronos]

No naivete. People need them to ride their rights; no one forbade this; I don’t know why the author saw a certain betrayal

[asv363]

At least 2,5 months, a ban on crossing the KPVV is valid. Who goes where ?!

[Kronos]

I meant before quarantine of course

[asv363]

Yesterday was the sixth anniversary of the air attack on Lugansk. Surprised by the reaction of the participants of VO - have many forgotten everything?

[Voldemar]

How long have you seen Ukrainian Nazis !? Have you been there !?

[Kronos]

They are there, right-wingers, for example, and about Hitler’s fans there are a lot of videos from Sharia, for example

[Santa Fe]

Life is more expensive
How can I go to an enemy country. What would happen if the Jews came on vacation in the Reich, “where they have relatives”

[Svarog]

And if nothing changes in the foreseeable future, then the consumer society will begin to prevail over the “ideological” population. And then such directors combining work for the republic with love for Ukraine will be a dime a dozen, and with them the meaning of what is happening will dry up ...

This is natural and natural; people have risen in the wake of the Crimea, now observing inaction from Russia, will slowly but surely change their beliefs.

[Non liberoid Russian]

it is strange that the cry "Putin is to blame again" did not sound, now the whole of Russia is to blame ... is this degradation of whining or the level of resentment towards the country has increased?

[paul3390]

It's right. After Putin mercilessly merged the Russian Spring-it would be difficult to expect something else .. People can’t always be in limbo for no reason, if there is no movement in one direction-they will inevitably swing in the opposite ..

[Santa Fe]

involuntarily swing in the opposite ..

How can you swing to the side where the punishers are and where they threaten genocide

If there is no genocide and no punishers are visible, you can easily go on vacation to your Ukrainian relatives - then why bother with this attempt to secede under the pretext of “rescue from the Nazis”?

[evgeniy.plotnikov.2019mail.ru]

Then, in 2014, the inhabitants of New Russia, respected Santa Fe, did everything right. But years have passed, and ,, things are still there ,,. The state ,, Capitalist Russia ,, （not to be confused with the wonderful, ancient, and beautiful with the Russia of Russia） cannot and does not want to offer LDNR. Awfully low standard of living of ordinary citizens! What ,, 25-35 thousand rubles ,,? At ,, citizen ,, in LDNR try to find a stable salary of 15-20 thousand. In Donetsk and Lugansk. And what about the periphery? Poverty, prostitution, drug addiction, drunkenness. Widespread foul language. Those for whom, over 50, are happy to go to the “people's militia” - salaries and three meals a day ... The most powerful degradation compared to pre-war Ukraine! The people see all this, feel it on themselves. Or does he, the people, need to feel enthusiasm for what is happening, for the possibility of obtaining a RF passport in a month and in turn, for endless concerts and other successful events, but noisy, mass events? Pull ,, cat by the tail ,, SIX （!） Years! Who to ask? With a school principal from Lugansk? As suggested by, our, amazing, alien, Makhov ... During this time, it was possible to do so much sensible on this long-suffering land! ,, Zarobitchans, from Kiev would come ... They would ask to work ... Such enterprises, such a level of technical culture, such specialists still remain! A full-fledged Soviet five-year plan, managed to lose, effective managers,!
.. And what do we have now? ,, DREAM ,, and INDIFFERENCE by ,, RK ,,. Why do people, zamamamutili,? What did you want to say ,,? Who is guilty that they’re not finished? It's nobody's fault? ,, Of course ,,? ,, themselves to blame ,,?

[businessv]

Quote: Svarog

watching inaction on the part of Russia

So not only from the side of Russia - the authorities of the republics also had to do something to improve the standard of living of people, this would motivate and reassure.

[Svarog]

Quote: businessv

Quote: Svarog

watching inaction on the part of Russia

So not only from the side of Russia - the authorities of the republics also had to do something to improve the standard of living of people, this would motivate and reassure.

Here, the Russian authorities in Crimea cannot open Sberbank, let alone the LDNR, it’s difficult to raise the standard of living during a sluggish conflict ..

[businessv]

Quote: Svarog

Then the Russian authorities in Crimea can’t open Sberbank,

"Can't" and "don't want" are different concepts, colleague. They are afraid to open Sberbank branches here in Crimea - after all, we are hopeless, since we are under sanctions, and this is an infection for our effective blowers. Suddenly they will fall! Even because of the most promising region, but under sanctions, they will not risk their personal well-being.

[Olezhek]

"Can't" and "don't want" are different concepts, colleague. They are afraid. Suddenly they will fall! Even because of the most promising region, but under sanctions, they will not risk their personal well-being.

Ukrainian?

[businessv]

Quote: Olezhek

Ukrainian?

Nationalist? Olezhek, you have a vile manner of throwing pieces from other people's posts that do not suit you and then write another rubbish. I wrote more

They are afraid in our Crimea to open savings offices - we are unpromising, since they are under sanctions, and this is an infection for our effective mini-miners.

Do not write me more, Olezhek!

[Olezhek]

Here, the Russian authorities in Crimea, Sberbank can not open

Is it that important?

[Normal ok]

Quote: businessv

Quote: Svarog

watching inaction on the part of Russia

So not only from the side of Russia - the authorities of the republics also had to do something to improve the standard of living of people, this would motivate and reassure.

They are not up to it, they share the loot (they took over the experience from senior comrades - curators).

[Pvi1206]

people are tired of the war ... uncertainty ... lasts from 2014 ... any day can be the last ... the USSR in 4 years put Europe in its place ... but then there was Stalin ...

[your1970]

Quote: Pvi1206

the last ... the USSR in 4 years put Europe in its place

- only there is one nuance - you suggest treating Ukraine as the 3rd Reich ????

[Uncle lee]

In LDN forget who they are fighting with

This is what they hope in Kiev ...
And then all the sacrifices and blood were in vain.
And when Kiev enters the Donbass there will be a sea of ​​blood!

[Kronos]

No, the author simply made surprised eyes at what has happened since 2015 when people traveled to Ukraine on different matters and deduced from this that terrible

[Andrey Vasilievich]

Well, in Slavyansk, for example, Kiev entered and no seas of blood were observed. So don't exaggerate. As long as they earn money on this "almost war", it will continue.
First of all, it is necessary to change the power in Kiev itself. But when the power changes, and those guilty of crimes are punished, then we can talk about the return of Donetsk and Lugansk to Ukraine.

[cniza]

Quote: Andrey Vasilievich

Well, for example, Kiev entered Slavyansk and no seas of blood were observed.

That was then, and what will happen now?

[Alex Nevs]

You can talk .... for centuries ...

[Santa Fe]

And when Kiev enters the Donbass there will be a sea of ​​blood!

Here below they write that "what has happened since 2015 when people traveled to Ukraine for different things." We went voluntarily and returned

All this is strange

[Fungus]

In LC there are traitors. As in Kiev, there are traitors. Spies are shorter on both sides.

[Desperado]

Quote: Thrifty

This is a flaw in the local media! It was necessary for a long time to remove at least the serial, about what is really happening in the Donbass, so that as many people as possible could see the truth not with false words. But Madame Sow needs to be interrogated so that the points know this is due to the lack of a brain in her head, or she’s just an o-oaina shepherd that is breaking apart the Donbass from the inside.

In order to understand what is happening in the unrecognized republics, it is enough to look at the latest interviews by Strelkov (Girkin). The people are tired of war and uncertainty, and most likely, sooner or later, the republics will return to Ukraine.

[cniza]

And why not part of Russia?

[Romey]

Because Putin and his comrades do not want this ...

[Karabin]

Quote: cniza

And why not part of Russia?

Because those who are now in power in Russia need LDNR for anything, but not for reunification.

[Lyuba1965_01]

Because it is not in Russia's interests.
It is strange that you do not understand this, although even in Ukraine this is understandable to many.
Politics - alas! - a dirty and cynical thing.

[Kisa]

there Gordon sketched out for an interview with Girkin Poklonskaya here the principal
for me it’s obvious that here and there propaganda works to maintain the conflict

[Igoresha]

and we thought that the Ukrainian army was working to maintain the conflict

All cases of deaths and injuries of civilians in the conflict zone in the Donbass this month were recorded in the territory not controlled by Ukraine. This was stated by the chairman of the UN Monitoring Mission for Human Rights in Ukraine Matilda Bogner, reports Interfax-Ukraine.

[businessv]

In this situation, I really want to believe that Lugansk and Donetsk will change their minds and begin to take feasible steps

This had to be done at a time when all the inhabitants of LDNR were waiting for this, now it’s too late — an opinion has been formed and life has been flowing to where the authorities have directed it since 2014.

[cniza]

I think better later than never ...

[Alex Nevs]

And the point of no return? Did not hear?

[Olezhek]

This had to be done at a time when all the inhabitants of LDNR were waiting for it,

That is, it is you who know best how and where to move world politics?
I sincerely envy.

[businessv]

Quote: Olezhek

That is, it is you who know best how and where to move world politics? I sincerely envy.

I just voiced my opinion because I know what people are talking about. Politics, especially the world one, is "moved" by those on whom it depends, and envy is a bad feeling, get rid of it!

[TAMBU]

And if nothing changes in the foreseeable future, then the consumer society will begin to prevail over the “ideological” population.

For 6 years I did not understand what the "idea" is ... can you tell me?

[Insurgent]

Quote: TAMBU

For 6 years I did not understand what the "idea" is ... can you tell me?

, if I myself didn’t think for six years, neither I, nor anyone else, even medicine, will help

[TAMBU]

... neither I nor anyone else ...

And so you mean for everyone in the answer? Well then, there is a demand from you.

Yes, I do not understand what is the idea of ​​LDNR, and what next? I'm not ashamed to not know. The author wrote the words, composed them in sentences so that I should guess what he meant. Well, I didn’t guess because I ask ...
Especially for the Insurgent, who is responsible for everyone, I'll chew my question: I asked: what is the "idea" for which, in the opinion of the author of the article, they are fighting, and which, in the author's opinion, is different from the idea of ​​a "consumer society"?
PS: for the gifted - I am not asking for what idea Donetsk and Lugansk have been fighting for 6 years. Here everything is clear to me - they want to pursue a separate policy from Kiev. But since a "consumer society" with the idea of ​​separation from Kiev is in no way connected things, therefore the author means something different and I do not understand what. Hence the question: what is this idea among the "ideological population"?
PSS Why, in my opinion, is a "consumer society" with the idea of ​​separation from Kiev - these are in no way related things:
1) separately from Kiev, you can build a consumer society (as with Kiev);
2) no U-turn was announced for the construction of a company with non-commodity relations;
3) there are no visible social and political phenomena indicating a rejection of capitalist relations (i.e., the idea of ​​consuming goods remains at the state level);
4) according to the Constitution - the form of government is a presidential republic (not a parliamentary one, which would give at least the illusion of "nationality" as the beginning of a path at the end of which the rejection of commodity relations, hence the rejection of the idea of ​​"consumption");
5) by all indications, it is a capitalist state, despite the name (therefore, the idea of ​​consumption is laid in the basis of the state system).

[Insurgent]

Quote: TAMBU

Especially for the Insurgent, who is responsible for all

Do you want to be answered ALL and ONCE?

Quote: TAMBU

I do not ask for what idea Donetsk and Lugansk have been fighting for 6 years. Everything is clear to me here - they want to pursue a separate policy from Kiev. But since a "consumer society" with the idea of ​​separation from Kiev is in no way connected things, therefore the author means something different and I do not understand what. Hence the question: what is this idea among the "ideological population"?

Based on the mishmash that you wrote, an understanding of what is happening with us will never come to you.

[TAMBU]

read to the end, there I described the text you selected. I knew that it’s difficult because I broke it into points.

ALL answered you AT ONCE

Yes, no problem, you can do it one at a time, but if you are more used to the crowd, then I'm ready for that. No problem. But you signed for "everyone." People are divided into two categories: some are really responsible for those for whom they speak, and the second - the talkers. I don’t rank people in the second category right away, so out of habit, since you’re responsible for everyone, I’m asking you ...

understanding of what is happening with us

Well, the main thing is that you have an understanding of what is happening, although for some reason they’re not able to explain normally ...
In general, everything is clear to me - the idea is understandable not to everyone, but only to those who talk about it and there is no point in describing it for those who do not understand it, because if you don’t understand it, then it’s not yours. "Brilliant" ...

[Alex Nevs]

Understanding will not come ... but it will come ... when a number of relatives are shot from planes, helicopters. And the "army" of the galloping outskirts will begin to kill their people for your own land.

[veritas]

Imagine how tired people are for 6 years from this.

[cniza]

Quote: veritas

Imagine how tired people are for 6 years from this.

Tired is not the right word, a person cannot long be in limbo ...

[syndicalist]

Quote: veritas

Imagine how tired people are for 6 years from this.

6 years is a lot, but you can tolerate, if there is at least some kind of perspective. LDNR has no prospects in its current status. As there are no prospects for joining the Russian Federation.

[really]

An abnormal author writes about normal people who did not quarrel with anyone, but by the will of someone else were in abnormal circumstances.

[cniza]

Quote: really

An abnormal author writes about normal people who did not quarrel with anyone, but by the will of someone else were in abnormal circumstances.

Well, if they want to obey someone else's will, which is contrary to their life principles, then what is the problem?

[Kronos]

First of all, people need a quiet life without war, and what kind of power this will provide them is not important for them.

[cniza]

So I am about it, only you are talking from the point of view of the consumer, and from the point of view of the producer - "I myself want to build my own state, to elect a representative government, etc."

[gabonskijfront]

Ideology, without it everything is possible, without it a person is an animal. And what can we oppose even to the flawed idea of ​​Ukrainian nationalism - "In Russia, it will be sweeter for you to eat and sleep better" so for this no one wants to risk it.

[cniza]

How wild it sounds - "what can we oppose to fascism?" think ...

[gabonskijfront]

This is wild for you and me, but for some it’s a pretty attractive ideology. Yes, fascism is simply beautiful for fragile minds, it explains everything in a very simple and accessible language.

[cniza]

No, this is called the psychology of adaptation - "I agree to live with anyone, if only they were allowed to eat", so this is no longer a person.

[Kronos]

No, not wildly fascists and Nazis once opposed ideas

[cniza]

You carefully read what I replied, and not just my post.

[Lyuba1965_01]

So what? All is correct. What can Russia oppose to fascism if it does not have its own ideology. And the ideas of fascism are very attractive to some people because of their simplicity, and for some, those in power are very beneficial.

[cniza]

Otherwise, after just a few years, the majority of the population will simply not understand that it is booming over the horizon.

This is peculiar to man, the wounds heal and he forgets who caused them and he wants to live here and now, he cannot wait long.

[Tibul]

Here they write that in New Russia there are traitors, fools and fools. There are of course, as everywhere. As if the trailblazers bulged out his chest, and his fault. While he was writing a plan on his knee on a campaign, the bourgeoisie took warm places, whom they had removed, whom they had sent to another world. Who will say where right now the leadership of the republics chosen by the people? In power the bourgeois proteges of Moscow. Not amazing progress in people's lives.

[avia12005]

A dream of determination in the Kremlin begets monsters.

[arlekin]

patriotic youth education - obsessive window dressing often causes rejection

"Something familiar to me ... well, well!" (C)

[acetophenone]

My life experience tells me that even 10 years will not pass, as the inhabitants of the Donetsk-Lugansk state-like formation will tell Russia that we stood on their way to Europe, deprived them of lace panties, quarreled with brothers, and therefore should pay and repent.

[really]

As for the brothers, you are right, quarreled, separated the families, the leaders seized power and started doing business in the blood

[Alex Nevs]

And not 20 or thirty, six years is not enough? or a lot?

[Karabin]

In this situation, I really want to believe that Lugansk and Donetsk will change their minds

What is there to think about? Either Kiev or Moscow. Moscow does not accept and offers to hang on in uncertainty. Kiev - its unconditional sovereignty over these territories. In the first case, uncertainty, in the second, specifics, but the end of Russian identity. And then, according to the saying: "Better a terrible end than an endless horror."

[Suslin]

It has long been clear to all normal people that the Minsk agreements are a fiction aimed at blinding the situation. It's time to decide on a way out of these agreements. Further delay will lead to even greater losses of both the civilian population and the loss of the meaning of upholding one’s interests. The morale of the militias also falls. Procrastination is the death of LDNR.

[L-39NG]

Your suggestion? Let Russia declare war on the independent state of Ukraine, because of the dead-born gangster-oligarchic DNR and Lao PDR under the patronage of Moscow thieves? And start World War III? You seem to be taking care of the children here. And this drove "NR and NDR" this is generally a burp of memories of the Soviet Union. Do you want to restore the neo-slavery system? I can advise a doctor. The sanatorium, however, is not cheap. Kibbutz won't suit you?

[Prisoner]

This is you with your "nenky" belch. Bandera burp riveted by the granddaughters and children of the Nazis

[L-39NG]

Yes, even though it is Bandera, but at least anything, but it is an independent state, and Russian thieves are trying to snatch fat pieces of Ukraine for themselves. Ukraine has the right to defend its integrity within internationally recognized borders and even by military means. It is known that many "miners" have already realized what kind of shit they have been stuck by "local - Russian" thieves and that this whole gang rests only on Russian bayonets, under the hidden imperialist ideology of re-creating the Soviet Union, in the name of enriching the Moscow usurpers.

[Suslin]

Independent of what? From the memory of fathers and grandfathers? From conscience and honor?

[Kronos]

CCCP was a free country

[Kisa]

yes morale on both sides so-so all the fervor in the whistle came out for 6 years a couple more years and all the warriors scatter. life is passing

[Olezhek]

It has long been clear to all normal people that the Minsk agreements are a fiction aimed at blinding the situation.

Something like that.
What did you want from those agreements?

[Suslin]

I do not understand finally what are you asking?

[Alex Nevs]

Here everyone is waiting, or "donkey or padishah" .... (or LDNR or Kukuev's criminals and the authorities).

[pereselenec]

"He actively travels around Ukraine, visiting Kiev, Odessa and other cities; he constantly communicates with Ukrainians and, in general, clearly perceives Ukraine as a near abroad."

And in the LPR, what, already the Iron Curtain, the shooting for communication with the Ukrainians and the use of movs?

[Kronos]

Yes, the author has some kind of strange fantasies and claims to citizens, as if for 6 years he had not seen anything

[Santa Fe]

As we know, Ukrainians arrange reprisals against residents of the DPR / LPR

The story of the separation in order to protect residents of the DPR / LPR from the actions of the Ukrainian authorities

[Maks1995]

In fact, sometimes information pops up (undesirable) that the oligarchs inflated the mood on both sides.
It will pop up that banks pumped up their daughters with money, then "We need to be happy" - trade is growing, then that Russian oligarchs financed their nationalist parties, then someone with money from coal supplies to Ukraine leaves with a scandal in the Russian Federation ...
And while the Mykols and Ivans sprinkle hatred with blood, one cannot hear that at least one "kid" of the Elita has suffered ...

The oligarchic elite will not let you forget how to hate neighbors ...

[NordUral]

This is exactly what Moscow expected from the two republics. The virus of socialism is not needed.

[Alexander Barinov]

This is a nit made in Ukraine *, kick in the neck with a kick in the back.

[Prisoner]

The woman is not very smart, rather even very stupid. Why, there she is! And certainly not a spy. Otherwise, I would have sat and did not protrude with my sympathy for the bander. On the contrary, at every step I would tear an embroidered shirt on my chest and urge me to go on a march to Kiev. It’s better to remove from the post. The school principal and teacher are not comic, especially in such a difficult time.

[Baloo]

There is no point in constructing conspiracy theories and reflecting on whether the director of the Lugansk school No. 8 was friends with the SBU or if she simply has an inexhaustible love of visiting Kiev. This, in theory, should be dealt with by Lugansk "Chekists". The fact itself is more interesting here: the number of LDNR residents who consider it the norm to travel to Ukraine to work or relax is gradually growing

Brzezinski in an interview with reporters on one of the anniversaries of the collapse of the USSR: we bought them. I have enough fingers in my hands to count those we bought.

[German Titov]

Egor! I feel you on the "flight of thoughts". Probably I will not be alone if I say - "Not for you," volumes "about the LDNR broadcast. I have been living in the Donetsk region since birth. Since 2014, I have been defending. Not for you," Yegorka "-" to talk about the "bean".

[German Titov]

Quote: Insurgent

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

I once wrote (having earned a couple of dozens of minuses) that an ordinary Ukrainian resident does not have hatred for a simple resident of LDNR. To the miner, teacher, driver, worker and housewife ...

But how much "Extraordinary Ukrainian residents","NOT hating"Shredding Donbass ...

I believe that the cons were fair.

Salam! "Zoma". Alive - Healthy, that's the main thing. "Do not worry". No matter how much the goat is combed, it will remain a goat. We are drifters, - blasthole blasting is our dear. "The inhabitants of Ukraine" were not called "syuda". The smart ones stayed at home. Have we seen cov from Donbass, Dung, Shakhtersk? We did not leave Donbass (we live here for life).

[Michael gutkin]

Donbass must return home, to Ukraine. The author is a provocateur, he wants to quarrel people with his article. And still, sitting in his editorial office in Russia, for many kilometers from the events, he tries to read the moral to those who live there and see everything with their own eyes. Ukraine is not Russia and therefore, as soon as the Donbass refrigerators are empty, no zombies can help the invaders and the miners will throw them out of their territory.

[Lyuba1965_01]

Quote: Michael Gutkin

Donbass must return home, to Ukraine. Ukraine is not Russia, and therefore, as soon as the Donbass refrigerators are empty, no zombies can help the invaders and the miners will throw them out of their territory.

Ukraine is Russia, read history books not from Vyatrovich, but real ones.
And before the 17th century, no one in the world had ever heard of such a country as Ukraine.
And in the Crimean War of 1853 - 1856. none of the British, French, and Turks had a clue that they were at war with Ukraine. All of them fought with the Russian Empire.
Donetsk, Lugansk are also former Russian lands, which, by their naivety, were donated to Ukraine by the Bolsheviks.
Donetsk in general became a part of it only in 1922.
It is clear that now no one is taking him away from Ukraine, but it must also be understood that there are mainly Russian people living there and, based on this, build their policies based on this fact.

[Santa Fe]

I do not care what happened in the 17th century.

As of the 21st century, in fact, we have tens of millions of people who consider themselves citizens of the country under the name “Ukraine”. Which has all the features of a separate independent country (its own treasury, territory, government, population) and is recognized by all 190 UN members

mostly Russian people live and, based on this, build their policies with

If they speak Russian does not mean that they need and benefit from rapprochement with Russia. First of all, they are not “Russian people” but citizens of another country

[Lyuba1965_01]

From the fact that they are citizens of another country, they do not cease to be Russian.
And the country's policy should take this factor into account. Well, it so happened historically that Ukraine is for the most part a bilingual and multinational country, so why should not the interests of all the nations that live there be taken into account? And why should the interests of those who want to be closer to Europe dominate the interests of those who want a rapprochement with Russia? Why are some better than others? If Russians living in Ukraine, Ukrainian citizens are condemned for their craving for Russia, then why residents of Lviv are not condemned, Prykarpitsya for their own. craving for Poland and Hungary?
And I don’t understand why Ukraine is so ganged up on the Russian language, because of this, most of the problems are there. In many countries of the world there are 3, 4 official state languages, and the people and governments of these countries do not believe that this threatens their integrity and identity. And in South Africa there are generally 11 (!!!) state languages, but from this it does not cease to be a single country. In Switzerland, 4 state languages. The state of Luxembourg has a territory of 2586,4 km², a little more than 3.000 people live there. However, in this state there are 3 state languages. And they do not interfere with anyone, they do not threaten this country. So why did the Russian language interfere with Ukraine? And why, after the coup in 2914, did BP want to adopt a law on language as one of the first laws? There were no other, more important problems?
I can also say that even citizens of another country are not always the same in their aspirations. I can say as a woman: in a large family, if I do not want disputes, cursing, for the family to be friendly, I must take into account the tastes of the house owner and the interests of all family members, I can’t give preference to one at the expense of others, otherwise the family will simply fall apart, it will not take place, some of its members can simply make a separate entrance to their part of the house and stop considering themselves to be one family with others. And here all the same, it’s not a family, albeit a large, but a multi-million country.
To be honest, modern Ukraine reminds me of 90s Russia. While we were arguing whether or not to take Lenin out of the Mausoleum, while we were discussing national issues, our country was robbed under the guise. Also in Ukraine, under the guise of nationalism, someone is profiting very well, because they have beaten people's heads, and they don’t have to watch what those in power do.

[Santa Fe]

Well, it so happened historically that Ukraine is for the most part a bilingual and multinational country, so why should not the interests of all nations be taken into account

What interests should be considered

Ukrainians are bilinguals from birth. Everyone, in the east and in the west, is equally bilingual. And they themselves have long figured out when and where it is more convenient to use them. Local discomfort does not arise. The hysteria surrounding the “granting of the right of the Russian language” is contrived by the media.

And moreover, this is not a reason for a 6-year war

[val43]

No, Lyuba is telling the truth. I remember very well how acting. President Turchinov pulled a trembling paw to the button to vote for the abolition of the special status of the Russian language. And if I, a Chernihiv resident, were enraged by this, then one can only imagine how the Russian-speaking Crimea and Donbass felt. I am sure that if the new Russian "power" had been declared a state one, Crimea would have remained in Ukraine, and there would have been no slaughter in the Donbas.

[Santa Fe]

Almost everyone who is called the Russian-speaking population of Ukraine speak Russian with a noticeable accent.

This means only one thing - they often speak Ukrainian

Quote: val43

I am sure that if the new Russian "power" had been declared a state one, Crimea would have remained in Ukraine, and there would have been no slaughter in the Donbas.

For a 6-year war in the Donbass, there would be another reason.

And Crimea always had strong ties with Russia, and would fall off at the first weakening of Kiev’s power. What happened

[thrust]

Chernihiv come on? write more Chernigov!

[Lyuba1965_01]

Owning languages ​​and imposing one at the expense of the other are two different things.
Why are Russian schools being closed in Ukraine? Why does everyone demand to speak only mov, if the Russian language historically has such a right of circulation, as well as Ukrainian?
Why was it impossible to give Russian the status of a second state language?
Why do not close schools in the Carpathian region with the study of the Hungarian language?
And about the discomfort. I have a lot of acquaintances in Ukraine in different parts of it (since Soviet times). Before all these events, they calmly spoke both Russian and Ukrainian, depending on the need, without giving preference to any of them. But after imposing the Ukrainian language on them, they hated it. I hope you remember physics? The strength of the action is equal to the strength of the reaction.
And the war is not only because of the language, but because the inhabitants of Ukraine have different priorities. Some want the EU, others want Russia. I am not a politician, but I also understand that it was possible to find some kind of compromise between different views. But why none of the politicians of Ukraine thought about this?
Why is the cult of Bandera imposed, rather ambiguous? Are there really not normal heroes in Ukraine? Why is it necessary to make all Ukrainians honor and admire him? Was it not clear from the very beginning that the east of the country would not accept him?
Why are the desires of only Westerners taken into account and do not pay attention to the interests and desires of the east of Ukraine? Why is hatred towards Russia incited in Ukraine (and not for one year!), Although many eastern Ukrainians have relatives and friends in Russia?
You know, if in a family one child is a favorite, and the other is like a stepson, then in the end this unloved one will hate his parents.
And about the war. And where did you see Russia in this war? Not a single PACE observer, not a single Western journalist of Russian troops saw it there. America has very good satellite intelligence, communications. If there were Russian troops or Russian weapons, they would immediately submit these pictures to all international organizations. Aw, pictures, where are you? But they are not ...

[val43]

Quote: Lyuba1965_01

If there were Russian troops or Russian weapons, they would immediately submit these pictures to all international organizations. Aw, pictures, where are you? But they are not ...

Lyuba, he just praised you for your objectivity - and then it's nonsense: miners and students are pulling out the latest Russian weapons from the mines with mantras like "sine square in cosius" crushing the enemy. Lyuba, it's time to wake up.

[Lyuba1965_01]

Is it time to wake up? Good. Then the facts to the studio! Only not from UkrSMI, but real ones, not delirium Poroshenko and others like him. Evidence of the fact of Russian weapons, and not just rifles, but really heavy.

[atalef]

Quote: Lyuba1965_01

Is it time to wake up? Good. Then the facts to the studio! Only not from UkrSMI, but real ones, not delirium Poroshenko and others like him. Evidence of the fact of Russian weapons, and not just rifles, but really heavy.

yes any number.
https://www.svoboda.org/a/30117350.html
as they say, one photo is better than 1000 words.

[Lyuba1965_01]

I am not a professional in the field of weapons, but I can say one thing: where is the evidence that this was filmed in Ukraine? Believe "Freedom" ??? Sorry, but I'm not so naive. Besides, why weren't these photos presented to the UN? I also have facts, and not some photos taken from an unknown location, but the words of my relative from Rostov-on-Don, who worked as a volunteer in 2014. Here are her messages literally.
".... in the Gukovo area. There eyewitnesses told - who works at the customs - how people from the Ukrainian side are not allowed into Russia. They are simply shot when trying to cross the border, and the dead and wounded are not allowed to be taken away - snipers are shooting those who tried to pick up their relatives And we also learned from those who managed to escape from Ukraine: concentration camps are being prepared there to receive potential refugees - they hope that after the "cleansing" of the territory of the southeast from the rebels and the establishment of a new order, these free slaves will work hard to rebuild "" national "" economy. What people now owns the Ukrainian economy, I hope you understand ... ".
I have no reason not to believe my sister, she is too honest and open person, for which she always got it.
Well, okay, you may not believe the words of an ordinary person, but I think you should believe the head of the OSCE SMM Erturul Apakan.
And he said at a meeting of the UN Security Council in 2019, in the month of February, if I am not mistaken, that in Ukraine non-Russian troops and Russian weapons refused to support Ukraine’s charges against Russia.
Unfortunately, I didn’t have any references to InoSMI, where some serious foreign newspapers wrote that there was a civil war in Ukraine, and not a war with Russia - in winter the computer was cleaned up, and by chance the master erased my draft, where they were also written. But the fact remains: now many Western journalists and political scientists understand that this is precisely a civil war.

[Vladimir Ivanov_4]

Damma makes straws!

[Sancho_SP]

What nonsense is this? For many people, relatives from Kiev or Odessa did not cease to be relatives because of the war. Then people go to children / parents / brothers, and not to the regime.

[Olezhek]

What nonsense is this? For many people, relatives from Kiev or Odessa did not cease to be relatives because of the war. Then people go to children / parents / brothers, and not to the regime.

That is, there are some "separate from the regime" millions of Ukrainians?
Interesting
You know, dear Druk is a kind of mimicry.
When ukroblitskryag failed at a certain moment, similar conversations about "native Ukrainians" began.

[Kronos]

The regime relies on bayonets and nationalists. People made it clear that they voted against Zelensky against the war

[Santa Fe]

It is as if the Jews went to the Third Reich to the children / parents / brothers who remained there.

They go to relatives, not to the regime

[val43]

Oleg, you are raving. What does the Jews and fascists?

[Santa Fe]

It seems promised punitive battalions and reprisals against residents of the eastern regions

The war for the independence of the DPR / LPR was waged under the pretext of salvation from the "fascists"

But the ungrateful saved continue to travel to the enemy camp

[val43]

And they are not our enemies. They do not imprison us for views and thoughts, much less kill us. Have you been to Kiev or another city of Ukraine? If so, where and when?

[thrust]

Sheepskin you th, "Chernigov". remember the name of the snail on which the roach is caught on the Desna. called "ragul"

[Jaromir]

What a war there. This is a war in your head. All is well. Take it easy. No one needs to be freed. Thank you, tell yourself. Eat now, full spoon. LDNr is their fault ...

[lukewarm]

What was said in the plot is a natural result of the "Minsk" and "cunning plans". Most likely they were invented by intelligent people from THAT side. For time works for them. In this suspended situation, there will be more and more such directors. For the Russian Federation looks unconvincing for them, the republics have been removed from the media agenda, and maybe even higher. Accordingly, those who fought with the junta do not receive motivation, those who have sat out are convinced that they are "right." For all the sacrifices are in vain. All that was said - IMHO, from my couch. Maybe there are battles going on? Tough "answers"? Yes, and it was not for nothing that all the leaders were wiped out. Apparently, this is more convenient. And for EVERYONE. Not only Kiev.

[Gena Nosov]

obviously people are tired of the war of constant tension, not everyone lives well there, someone is starving and someone is not ...

[Viktor Sergeev]

Donbass is Ukraine. No need for fairy tales about the inhabitants of the DPR and LPR, they are the same Ukrainians, the same hatred of Russia, the same bitterness and greed, they were such in 91, they always will be. They foolishly succumbed to emotions, thinking that Russia would take, forgetting what must first be earned. Now they have a split personality: fear and a desire to return to Ukraine.
Yes, there are those who really do not like Ukraine, but I think the DNR-LNR is not better, the same crooks in power.
In 10 years they will speak a mov and hate Russia without a trace.

[Kronos]

What does it mean to earn? Why is Crimea better than Donbass? Thousands of dead inhabitants of this is seen a little

[Viktor Sergeev]

I explain: I studied at a military school in Dnepropetrovsk in 1991, (along with such a freak as Yura Bereza (former deputy of the Verkhovna Rada, the first in our battery to join the party)). Studied entirely by the East, there was a guy from the Donbass. That's what they said: finally, Ukraine will separate, Russia will die of hunger, and we will be in chocolate. They always hated Russia and were true Ukrainians, which is why most of the warring people in the Donbas are from the east, not the west.
I was in Crimea in 2007, 2011. People wanted to go to Russia, did not consider themselves Ukrainians (not all, but most). Accession must be earned, but not by waving flags and shouting about Russia.
Well, about the thousand dead: man is a weak being, easily suggested. A person wants peace. Ukraine will come, a year ukroSMI and everyone will hate Russia, and those who died, well, it turns out that they are traitors, that's all.
What happened in 1941-1945? Who imposes sanctions on Russia? Who is our main friend in the EU? Does someone recall the millions of dead? But did Bandera arise from scratch or were they all the time despite the thousands of killed OUN and other squalid Ukrainians?

[Egor-dis]

Quote: Victor Sergeev

I studied in Dnepropetrovsk at a military school in 1991, (along with such a freak as Yura Bereza

not even surprised. You have the same racial-ethnic snobbery.

Quote: Victor Sergeev

That's what they said: finally, Ukraine will separate, Russia will die of hunger, and we will be in chocolate.

Those descendants of the Ukrainians who fled from the Polish lords and settled in the future southeast of the future "Ukraine" are not all the inhabitants of the southeast. And to look up to them is the same as the Russians in the Crimea to the notorious "Crimean woman-daughter-officer." It would have been so smooth - the presidential candidate Sravchuk would not have written his agitation with such texts.

Quote: Victor Sergeev

I was in Crimea in 2007, 2011. People wanted to go to Russia, did not consider themselves Ukrainians (not all, but most). Accession must be earned, but not by waving flags and shouting about Russia.

And who are you, in fact, such as to decide and indicate to whom and what should be earned? Crimea by and large became Russian precisely because of the presence of the Russian armed forces there, which did not allow those who waved their flags for the Russian World to grind minced meat. Well, along the way, they defended their national interests, not allowing the Americans to enter the peninsula and put their bases there. Without polite green people, it would be the same as in the Donbass, only faster and more efficient. Due to the fact that there are simply fewer Russians than in LDNR.
And, so, purely for reference - the territory of the Luhansk and Donetsk regions was Russian back in the days when the Tatars were still prancing in the Crimean Khanate under the roof of the Ottoman Empire. And "comrade" Lenin made them "Ukraine", having paid with these territories for the annexation of the southwestern lands of the former Russian Empire to the USSR.
So do not tell you who and what you deserve.

[Olezhek]

Donbass is Ukraine.

And Ukraine is a part of the world (like Africa) But not a country like France.
Donbass chose between savagery and civilization. And chose.
But you, my dear friend, cannot understand this.

[Alex Nevs]

Stupid did not read

[val43]

In 10 years they will speak a mov and hate Russia without a trace.

May it not be in 10, or in 100 years!

[Egor-dis]

Quote: val43

May it not be in 10, or in 100 years!

I’ll tell you a little historical secret. During the time of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the inhabitants of Galicia (those who during the years of the Second World War became OUN-Ovuami and Bandera) considered themselves Russian. And so it was until the 1st World War. What happened to them? They were broken through the knee. Just zeroing out the entire population, who considered themselves Russian or pro-Russian. Some were rotted in concentration camps, and most were hung on poles, gates, and trees. Those who survived began to call themselves Ukrainians and hate Russia.
This recipe has been repeatedly voiced by officials of Ukraine in relation to residents of the South-East.

[val43]

Russian or Russian? But that's not the point. As long as I, an Ounovets and a Bandera, believe that the Russian language can be in Ukraine, as long as my son and daughter think so and grandchildren (and they will) think so, we won’t break us through the knee, there are a lot of us. It is necessary not to ban Russian, but to create a high-quality product in Ukrainian. What would you watch in Russia, for example, a movie, gasp and rush for the Ukrainian-Russian dictionary.

[babylon]

In Ukraine, people ceased to believe in Russia, we essentially left them to their own devices.
What kind of brothers can we be now for them? And expect nothing more from distrust from them.
But it’s our power to blame for not being able to support the legitimate president

[iouris]

Quote: vavilon

people stopped believing in Russia, we essentially left them to their own devices

If so, then the Russian Federation will soon cease to exist. I would still wait with such conclusions.

[babylon]

Yes, no, dear interlocutor, if conclusions are not drawn now, then it may be too late.

[Viktor Sergeev]

Did Russia promise them something? They are not needed by Russia.

[Olezhek]

In Ukraine, people stopped believing in Russia, we essentially left them to their own devices

Do not be discouraged by the cameras: we also threw the Poles.
And they will not forgive us for this!

[Kronos]

Everything is true except for president Yanukovych people were not needed to nafik

[babylon]

I agree with you that Yanukovych was a scoundrel, but he was our scoundrel, that’s the difference.

[iouris]

What is this vile provocation? We must also understand at what point such stuffing occurs.

[Santa Fe]

At what point?

Six years, everything froze in one place

[Larisa Byvsheva_3]

Well, if for the Kremlin and Russia Ukraine and its oligarch-Bandera are respected business partners, including, what can we say about the residents of the DPR / LPR who are trying to somehow survive in the absence of salaries and with poor pensions.

[Abel]

Donetsk brothers bortanuli me. I came to negotiate, and they got me: we don't need old people. But I can tell the barrel from the butt. I went to Sevastopol, almost my hometown. And on the floor below lived "refugees from Donbass". Summer and every evening "under the glass" loud arguments about business. We talked politely, the people moved out in an unknown direction

[Kronos]

Go to Ukraine, what a scum

[Fishery]

The fact itself is more interesting here: the number of LDNR residents who consider it the norm to go to Ukraine to work or relax is gradually growing .-------------- Well, as it were, but what was the result expected?

[Sergey Sfiedu]

What did the Russian authorities count on, in fact betraying eastern Ukraine? That the Donbass people will be forever grateful to such traitors? Surely many have already regretted believing in Mother Russia. From the return to Nezalezhnaya they are only kept by the mayhem of Bandera.

[Santa Fe]

holds only chaos Bandera.

It holds back the reluctance of the top and security officials of the DPR / LPR to part with their status as leaders of an entire (albeit unrecognized) country

[val43]

From the return to Nezalezhnaya they are only kept by the mayhem of Bandera.

Well, more from here, please. Tell me how Bandera’s lawlessness is in Chernigov.

[Sergey Sfiedu]

And what does Chernigov have to do with it? Chernihiv is not at war, and the city itself is very Ukrainian, there are few Russians there.

[val43]

those. you want to say - if there were more Russians in Chernigov, there would have been a massacre, like in the Donbass? What for? Here is my Russian colleague: we live the same way, do the same job, get the same salary (though the bonuses may differ, but we are not angry and not happy, on the contrary, we try to help each other). We overstock in one store, on Fridays we drink beer in the bar. Sometimes we argue (do not quarrel!). What am I to share with him? Why fight?

[ZaDedov]

It is strange why she goes to the bloodthirsty Banderites

[Fishery]

so Bandera all Donetsk and Lugansk receive pensions_)))))

[Igor Polovodov]

There is no need to savor the series, to savor the horrors unnecessarily, a film in the spirit of "Come and See" is enough, a picture that was not unambiguously perceived in its time and still stands apart ... by the way, noted by Tarantino ... here are the strange perceptions ... and the director himself ...

[Kushka]

Recently they wrote - in 6 years 150 children died, about 400 were crippled.
I have no answers, there are questions. For example: there are two villages in them
for a long time everyone got married, all to each other brothers and sisters, godfathers with
matchmakers. Found a dozen frostbitten guys on both sides
and they started a fight, a fight to the blood. And what both should have done
Governor, being State Men? And slap every
palm so that only a wet place is left! Do not dare us here
Yugoslavia breed! Do not dare the Slav to Slav, to joy
overseas adversary! But no, the governors in their kremlins are psycho-
zeros and each according to Kamaz mortars and grenade launchers for boys
detached, but two wagons of ammunition. And it started - not a single
there is no whole house in both villages, 13 thousand killed. And now
tell me - these "governors" in both kremlins have more intelligence than
those frostbitten, OR SO MUCH? Are there any in these kremlins
craftsman, so that they bring sound there from across the ocean? What when one at a time
They shot the car, in a pause, so that they would listen to stormy applause!
This is there, across the ocean, they ask for an LSI; they like such music! They are
have already taken up Minsk - the question is - why in Kiev an American girl
jumped, and in Minsk the whole state secretary Pompeo rode? Isn't that why
that in the Donbass two bayonets with a shovel (land) and a coal - sometimes he himself
lights up, and a woman can do it, as it turned out, A in Belarus
two bayonets with a shovel (sand) and water flows from a shovel. It's hard to light up.
Well, he brought oil (what an American without something explosive
dangerous in his pockets), only the oil here is so, for starters. Ex Slavs
where to get the mind - everyone has it, but no one sells.

[Bob hpaq]

Donbass is already 6 years between heaven and earth. Where is the Russian army? It has long been clear that the Zionist quack Putin wants to get rid of the original Russian territories. They are like a bone in his throat. According to the plan, it was necessary to surrender Kiev (finally after the 92nd year), Crimea as a gift for Putin to strengthen his power in Russia, after the Ukrainian Maidan. Donbass was not included in these plans. Conflict of interests.

[Petrik66]

For the New Year 2020, rested in Phuket. There he drew attention to a lady of Balzac age. The whole cattle was hung up with tsatskas and with all its behavior showed its significance and consistency. From the conversations, I realized that she was from Donetsk, lives there and everything was fine with her. The husband of this worthy woman was not able to come, because at the post and what he directs there. From her words, I realized that the late Zakharchenko is a bandit, that there are Russian mercenaries in the trenches, and that all decent people in Donetsk are already tired of this mess and it’s time to make peace so that everything would be as before. She is Russian, with a Ukrainian passport, but I think that our passport is also available, like her spouse.

[Dedok]

and what should be an obscure policy? just that!
No need to be surprised.
Each "stick has two ends," and nothing else.
Freezing a crisis - and not resolving it, will smooth out problems: people need to live, raise children, and not play politics ...
Further there will be even more of this, therefore either the resolution of the crisis or the wave of McCarthyism

[AleBors]

All this is the result of the rule of the leadership of the republics. They have long sprouted into Ukrainian business, and money, as they know, does not smell. Plus low responsibility and competence of security services.

[kriten]

The authorities of the republic are to blame for this, since the fish rots from the head, and Russia, which issued the license to Kiev for the unpunished murder of citizens of the republics by treacherous Minsk agreements.

[val43]

Quote: Santa Fe

It seems promised punitive battalions and reprisals against residents of the eastern regions

Where, when and from whom did you hear this nonsense? More “crucified boys” and “fried bullfinches”?

[tank64rus]

she needs to be brought to a conversation with those women who ended up in the SBU and what these creatures did with them. but no, send her where she wants to go.

[val43]

Quote: Santa Fe

Almost everyone who is called the Russian-speaking population of Ukraine speak Russian with a noticeable accent.

Yes???? Yes, half of Kuban speaks with a noticeable Ukrainian accent. And what?

[val43]

Quote: Santa Fe

For a 6-year war in the Donbass, there would be another reason.

You think so? Well, think about who is stopping you.

[Radical]

In LDN they forget who they are fighting and who is killing their children

Well, here’s this article in addition -
https://vpk-news.ru/articles/56994

[Egor-dis]

In this situation, I really want to believe that Lugansk and Donetsk will come to their senses and begin to take feasible steps aimed at winning back the situation.

Who will allow them to take these steps!? Who supervises the LDNR? Who is turning motorized rifle brigades into assembly and construction brigades with all their might?
Are you saying "no drain"? This is exactly who he is! We can’t protect you, we don’t allow you to defend yourself. De-escalation of conflict by indirect methods. It is impossible to honestly admit that the LDNR is not needed. Questions will arise. Many questions. But to weaken the LDPR from the inside so that the Ukrainians can take them lukewarm - yes. You can always say: “It’s their own fault! We gave them humanitarian aid and ‘vacation leavers’, but they, being so lazy and ungrateful, couldn’t do anything themselves,” and so on.
In Stalin’s time, the entire currently active senior officer corps of the LPR (both our own and visitors) would have been shot six times a day. For sabotage, treason and sabotage. Because it is impossible, knowing that the enemy is 15 km away, instead of teaching soldiers at least basic things (at least what was previously taught in schools at the NVP), send them to dig exemplary positions at the training ground, and remove equipment from the LBS to the parade. It would be worth shooting them even now, but they, too, are following someone’s orders.
And you say “independent steps”.

[Tuzik]

“In the LDPR they forget who they are fighting with and who is killing their children”
I wonder if those who started the war will be able to look into the eyes of mothers whose children died? Don't forget to punish them!