Clothing of the northern "barbarians"

271

The triumph of the Roman emperor. Captured Germans spend on the streets of Rome. Drawing from the Soviet textbook on stories The ancient world for fifth grade. There are some inaccuracies, but on the whole, the idea of ​​the fashion of imperial Rome and its opponents is barbaric.

A woman should not have men's clothing.
Deuteronomy 22:5


Culture of clothes. In the Bronze Age, the ancient Germans developed a highly developed clothing culture, as evidenced by numerous historical finds. So the term "barbarian", which has a completely obvious meaning today, did not fit the Germans of that time completely, but only meant what the Romans understood by these concepts. And the Romans "barbarian" - this is just a "stranger." Moreover, the influence on the clothes of the Roman Empire from the “barbarians” was much stronger than from the Romans to the barbarians, which does not testify to the backwardness and imperfection of the costume of the same ancient Germans.



Clothing of the northern "barbarians"

Celt (left) battles the German. Fig. Angus McBride

The main type of clothing of the Greeks, Romans, and other representatives of the Mediterranean culture was a simple draped piece of linen, while the ancient Germans and Gauls in the west and Parthians in the east owned cutting and sewing techniques, as evidenced by bone and bronze needles found by archaeologists.


Bronze Daggers of the Bronze Age in Europe Army Museum, Paris

Naturally, a rather severe climate influenced the lifestyle of the Germans. Sleeves that appeared in their suit in the III century. BC, as well as pants that appeared even earlier, already in the VI century. BC, is the best confirmation of this. In the conditions of snowy and frosty winters, you can’t find yourself without pants and bare hands. By the way, it was they, the tribes of the North, who made the main revolution in clothing: since a person mounted a horse and put on his pants before it, clothing began to be divided into male and female!


Clothes from the column of Trajan. 113 year N. e. In the center is clearly visible German warrior, an ally of Rome: with a naked torso, but in trousers and with a club in his hand. Below and to the left is a duck with a painted oval shield, dressed in a tunic with narrow and long sleeves up to the wrists, in trousers and a raincoat. All the other ducks on this bas-relief are dressed in much the same way.

The Germans called the pants “Brugs”, and the Celts - “marriage”, “marriage”, which is consonant with the Russian word “pants”. The Romans despised this type of clothing for a long time. It is known that even special centurions walked around Rome, checking to see if there were any hated barbarian pants under the toga of citizens, but ... over time they had to admit that this clothing was funny, but convenient, especially for warriors and especially for riders.


Clothes from the column of Trajan. And here the Roman warriors are already depicted wearing breeches like pants ...

It was the Germans who began to subdivide clothing according to the seasons into winter and summer and brought in chests for its out-of-season storage. Well, in general, it should be said that the clothing of the Germans was not inferior to the clothes of the ancient Greeks and Romans in quality and decoration, and in terms of expediency, of course, it surpassed it.

“I myself join the opinion of those who believe that the tribes inhabiting Germany, who have never been mixed through marriages with any foreigners, are primordially special, preserving their original purity and only resembling themselves. Hence, despite such a number of people, all of them have the same appearance: hard blue eyes, blond hair, tall bodies, capable of only short-term effort; at the same time, they lack patience to work hard and hard, and they cannot stand thirst and heat at all, while the weather and soil taught them to easily endure cold and hunger. ”

(Cornelius Tacitus. On the origin of the Germans and the location of Germany, 98 AD)

Based on the findings of archaeologists, we can imagine what the clothes of men and women - Germans of the Bronze Age era looked like. Women wore summer short-sleeved, one-piece linen blouses. The long skirt was supported by a wide leather belt with long tassels, decorated with a bronze disk instead of a buckle. A dagger in a leather scabbard could hang from a belt. Skillful bronze jewelery — a diadem, bracelet, and chest jewelry — were not uncommon. Moreover, women participated in battles, being in the ranks with men. Their task was primarily to scare the enemy with loud screams. The warrior man was armed with a long sword and a dagger with bronze handles. The animal skin cloak was fastened with a bronze fastener medallion. Bracelets in the shape of a solar disk on the wrists and forearms, as well as a belt decorated with plaques showed its high status. The warrior could wear a skirt to the knees with a fringe of coarse wool. On her feet were leather sandals, both women and men had them.


German woman surrounded by Roman legionnaires. Fig. Angus McBride

However, this type of women's dress is also known, which could belong to girls participating in dances, or priestesses. Their short woolen skirt was made of woolen threads enclosed in bronze tubes, as a result of which such a skirt made a sound with every movement of its owner. The dress included heavy jewelry with a spiral, star or wavy pattern. This strange type of costume has existed for many centuries, and its details and jewelry are exhibited in many museums in Europe.


Gold jewelry from the British Museum

The Germans' underwear was a linen tunic-skirt made of a quadrangular piece of knee-length fabric. The tunic was held on shoulders on leather straps with bronze clasps. The lower end of the tunic was belted on the hips with a woolen belt with tassels. On top of the puffins, they could wear a woolen cloak or a piece of skin with the fur inside, which was fastened with a pin on the chest. In descriptions of ancient German clothing, sewn jackets made of wool or animal skins with sleeves are often found.


Pants from Torsberg. Schleswig Museum, Germany

Pants made of wool or linen with a wide belt were an indispensable attribute of their clothes, as they protected from the cold. In addition, they also served as underwear, and were extremely comfortable for riding, as mentioned in the XNUMXth century. Roman writer Sidonin. Much has been written about the weapons and protective equipment of the Germans by Tacitus.


Gallic warriors of the III – II centuries BC Fig. Angus McBride

“They also have little iron, as can be inferred from the nature of their offensive weapons. They rarely use swords or long spears, but act against darts, or, as they call it, a fromey, with narrow and short iron tips, weapons so sharp and comfortable that, depending on circumstances, they fight hand-to-hand, and from afar. Even the riders are content with a framey and a shield, while the infantrymen also launch throwing spears, each of several pieces, and they, naked or in a short cloak, throw them at a great distance. They imperceptibly have the slightest desire to flaunt decorations, and they paint only shields with bright colors. We are looking for only a few shells, only one or the other for metal or leather. ”

(Cornelius Tacitus. "On the Origin of the Germans and the Location of Germany", 98 AD)


Findings from a burial in the Khoga barrow, Uppsala, Sweden. Around 1000 BC e. State Historical Museum, Stockholm

“Everyone’s outerwear is a short cloak, fastened with a buckle, if not, then with a spike. Nothing else covered, they spend whole days at the fire kindled in the hearth. The richest are distinguished by the fact that, in addition to a cloak, they also have other clothes, but not waving, like the Sarmatians or Parthians, but narrow and tight-fitting. They wear skins of wild animals ... Women’s clothes are not different from men’s clothes, except that women often wear linen cloaks, which they color with purple paint, and sleeves do not come down from their shoulders, so that their arms are open from top to bottom, as open and part of the chest near them. "

(Cornelius Tacitus. "On the Origin of the Germans and the Location of Germany", 98 AD)


Hog Mound. Below are tweezers and a dangerous bronze razor with a handle entwined with gold wire. State Historical Museum, Stockholm

Shoes, both male and female, were simple: the sole in the form of a piece of durable leather with a perforated edge. Laces were inserted into its holes, with which the edges were pulled up and wrapped around the foot. From the ankle to the knees, the legs were covered with windings of linen or wool.


Burial comb in Uppland, Sweden. State Historical Museum, Stockholm


It was customary not only to comb your hair, but also to clean your ears! Ear spoon. Uppland, Sweden. State Historical Museum, Stockholm

Headwear also did not differ in complexity and sophistication: a hood or a cap in the shape of a hemisphere from sheared fur. But the hair of the Germans made a very strong impression on the Romans. The long blonde hair of German women aroused their admiration, as did the hair of women from Denmark and Britain. Male Germanic beards shaved and generally had a habit of caring for their vegetation, as evidenced not only by razors found in male burials, but also by tweezers for plucking hair.


Reconstruction of the appearance of “a man from Klonikavan”. OK. IV - III centuries BC. National Museum of Ireland, Dublin


"Woman from Elling" and her hairstyle. Silkeborg Museum, Denmark

The findings of the so-called bog people, that is, bodies that have fallen into peat bogs and, due to the specific features of the swamp environment of the mummified ones, also help scientists to judge the “mods” and hairstyles of the Bronze Age. There are such finds in England, Denmark and in Germany. For example, on the head of a “man from Tollund” there was even a pointed leather cap sewn with fur inside, just like fairy-tale gnomes; a woolen dress was found next to the burial of the "woman from Huldremose", etc. And the “man from Klonikavan” allowed me to get some idea of ​​hairstyles. It turns out that he had hair styling with a mixture of resin with vegetable oil. The “man from Osterby” had a knot of hair above his right temple, and the Roman historian Tacitus pointed out that such hairstyles belonged to people from the Suevi tribe.


Golden pendant of Roman time. OK. 200-400 g. National History Museum, Copenhagen


Gold pendant. Found in Hvorslevgard, Jutland. OK. 500-540 National Historical Museum, Copenhagen

Like all barbarians, the Germans loved jewelry. Bracelets in the form of curled snakes with eyes made of rubies, beads, earrings, pendants, brooches, hairpins - all this could be made of bronze and gold. So compared to them, the same Romans looked very modest, and even patricians of the era of the empire. Checkered, bright fabrics from which tunics and trousers were sewn, patterns in the form of runic signs embroidered on clothes, again long trousers and long narrow sleeves, the use of fur, an abundance of bronze and gold ornaments - all this made them incomprehensible and “alien” to the Romans !

To be continued ...
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  1. +2
    13 June 2020 05: 20
    Good morning friends! hi
    Vyacheslav Olegich, thank you, we made you happy! It turns out that I owe my "cowboy" pants to a gloomy German genius.
    In the conditions of snowy and frosty winters, you can’t find yourself without pants and bare hands.
    And, I would add, you won’t fight. smile
    I will probably again be accused of russophobic trilbism, and I just want to ask the "leavened" patriots about the health of a "truly Russian animal". And surely one of them will begin to prove that the pants were invented in Russia.
    1. +40
      13 June 2020 05: 52
      Quote: Sea Cat
      And surely one of them will begin to prove that the pants were invented in Russia.

      Of course not. In Russia, before coming of age they wore shirts (until the tip of the genital organ began to stick out from under the hem). After the onset of such an important event, the Russian picked up a club and went for pants to Germany.
      1. +12
        13 June 2020 07: 05
        Quote: mark1
        After the onset of such an important event, the Russian picked up a club and went for pants to Germany.

        I liked your option! laughing laughing laughing I love humor! good
        1. +27
          13 June 2020 07: 33
          That's not all ... A large number of Russians without pants and with clubs on German roads complicated the quiet burgher life of German barbarians (again, the growth of cases of hooliganism) and this was the basis for the issue of pants, which later grew to the city of Osnabruck (literally with Old German - STOP! ON TROUSERS and blow home(the latter has left the name of the city over the centuries))
          1. +1
            13 June 2020 18: 02
            Perhaps this was the very first reparation from Germany
        2. +1
          13 June 2020 16: 51
          Quote: mark1
          Russian picked up a club and went for pants in Germany.
          good
          campaigns "for zipuns" were the main article of material supply for the Cossack army
          - you can’t throw words out of a song laughing
      2. +2
        13 June 2020 17: 58
        Quote: mark1
        Quote: Sea Cat
        And surely one of them will begin to prove that the pants were invented in Russia.

        Of course not. In Russia, before coming of age they wore shirts (until the tip of the genital organ began to stick out from under the hem). After the onset of such an important event, the Russian picked up a club and went for pants to Germany.

        Stenka Razin's forefather went to fetch his pants, and Razin "went to fetch zipuns"
        1. +2
          13 June 2020 21: 20
          By the way, Vlad is well thought out! Jeans - German, slippers - Turkish, bathrobe - Persian !!! They did not go to tights and kilts to France and Scotland! Not our fashion however! Although I’m lying at the request of my wife twice in Paris. The first for the cap, the second for perfume! They are still ours - remember bistro !!! laughing
          1. +1
            13 June 2020 21: 31
            Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
            They are still ours - remember bistro !!!

            And what is the connection between the Bistro and the Russians?
            1. +1
              13 June 2020 22: 30
              The French themselves write that the "bistro" appeared after the defeat of France in the Napoleonic wars. Our Cossacks loved to demand a "mustache quickly" in our taverns and taverns!
              1. 0
                13 June 2020 23: 08
                Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
                The French themselves write that the "bistro" appeared after the defeat of France in the Napoleonic wars. Our Cossacks loved to demand a "mustache quickly" in our taverns and taverns!

                "The French themselves" write such nonsense only in Runet. The term Bistro appeared 70 years later than the Napoleonic wars and has nothing to do with Russian.
                1. +1
                  14 June 2020 12: 43
                  Quote: Liam
                  "The French themselves" write such nonsense only in Runet


                  https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bistro
                  This is probably a bike, but the French do write such a thing
                  1. 0
                    14 June 2020 13: 58
                    Where you found this photo, everything is written. The "Russian" trace in this word is exactly 0. By the way, try to translate from French what exactly is written on the plate
          2. +1
            14 June 2020 10: 47
            Namesake, by analogy with "bistro", I remembered: "Orly" - Orlik, remember such a "comrade"?
      3. 0
        14 June 2020 13: 17
        In Russia, before coming of age they wore shirts (until the tip of the genital organ began to stick out from under the hem). After the onset of such an important event, the Russian picked up a club and went for pants to Germany.

        The Russians didn’t need a club, they crushed German skulls with that very tip sticking out from under the hem, and only then they took off their pants from the Aryan blind men. laughing
        1. 0
          14 June 2020 17: 06
          It’s just that the Russians had two clubs
          1. 0
            14 June 2020 19: 55
            It’s just that the Russians had two clubs
            Which from under the shirt is the club of the last chance ...
    2. +6
      13 June 2020 05: 53
      Quote: Sea Cat
      And surely one of them will begin to prove that the pants were invented in Russia.

      Well, given that the Gottes arrived from Crimea through the territory of the Eastern Slavs, having tasted a cudgel on the East European Plain, what bothers in this version? Or did they come from the Crimea to the territory of the Slavs (Slavic, Puddle, Silesian) and did not borrow a good idea with clothes? What is the contradiction? The Slavs lived wider than Russia, if that. Slavs rule !!!
    3. +7
      13 June 2020 06: 25
      Konstantin, good morning!
      I join in thanks to Vyacheslav Olegovich !!!
      The ability of the ancient Greeks and Romans to wear toga was always surprising. This is not for you to get into your pants or skirt. Only along the edge up to 6 meters of fabric !!! Try to wrap yourself up without help! wink
      By the origin of trousers, knickers.
      . The most ancient find of this garment was made during excavation of the Yanhai [d] burial site (Yanghai, 42 ° 48′ – 42 ° 49′N, 89 ° 39′ – 89 ° 40′E), located near the Turfan oasis (northwest China). Woolen trousers about 3000 years old were discovered in two graves (dating from radiocarbon analysis: between the XNUMXth and XNUMXth centuries BC).

      So the “Quaspatriots” have a chance to prove that the owners of those “pants” were purebred mermaids !!! But you need to endow the first with test trotters to explain what they did there !!! feel
      Now on the etymology! Pants - this is a later borrowing from the Dutch (dates back to the time of Peter I). Pants - of Turkic origin, is also not an indicator that Russia is the homeland of elephants, fie pants!
      There is truth and sincerely ours - socks !!! If you develop a theme, then? fellow
      Although I think it's easier! Describing the Germans, Tacitus writes about our ancestors, since during this period the process of the disintegration of a single community into Germans, Balts and Slavs is only outlined. So alas, despite the fact that the nomadic Scythians with trousers were ahead of us, according to the work of Herodotus, we with our portki still lit up in history !!! lol
      Case for small! Overthrow the history of Herodotus, or cling to the Black Sea Scythians !!! Although B. Rybakov did it to suffer for us!
      Shovels comrades in the arms and archaeological site! The task is to dig out “Puss in Boots”, tfu - a Slav in the ports !!! what
      I wonder who came up with underwear? This is not what you thought “bikini-bikini and lace panties”, but seed panties !!! After all, definitely ours! So do not care - these ports !!! The parity is set!
      With sincere respect, I’m sorry I couldn’t resist.
      Van Vlad and good day to all !!!
      1. +7
        13 June 2020 07: 02
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        and seed cowards !!! After all, definitely ours!

        Good morning friends!
        Vlad, you weren’t mistaken! This is really OUR. In the 20s, they were conceived as a variant of sportswear, but then they just went, what’s called * people *. I’ll notice that in the West they were almost the same underpants, but .... narrowed. laughing Our more loose cut. That's something like that.
        Yours! hi
        1. +5
          13 June 2020 07: 22
          To this I add that in the official nomenclature of sewing products they were referred to as: * plain simplified shorts *! Well, they slowly and lightly converted to the current * boxers *.
          Damn, an interesting topic * muddied * Vyacheslav Olegovich! Thanks to him! laughing
      2. +8
        13 June 2020 07: 36
        Now we give the floor to Ilf and Petrov:

        “All this splendor was breaking on a small piece of paper stuck at the front door of the store:“ There are no pants. ”
      3. +6
        13 June 2020 15: 21
        The invention by the Slavs of pants is proved elementarily by the method of the Operator
        1. The oldest pants in the Turfan oasis are dated 13-10 centuries BC
        2. Synchronous Caucasoid apparently Indo-European culture - Andronovo is very close
        3. The haplogroup of at least one of the Andronovites -R1a
        Checkmate Russophobia am am
        1. 0
          13 June 2020 18: 07
          Checkmate Russophobia am am

          Based on these conditions! The first rioters were bull riders! good
          Although if without ernism, according to the same Operator! Ancestors walked in our trousers, both Russian and German, so it would be necessary to share the “copyright money” among a dozen applicants !!!
          1. +2
            14 June 2020 20: 00
            The first rioters were bull riders
            That is, all sorts of Chukchi (and their predecessors) learned about pants only from the Cossacks?
            1. 0
              14 June 2020 20: 17
              Quote: abrakadabre
              The first rioters were bull riders
              That is, all sorts of Chukchi (and their predecessors) learned about pants only from the Cossacks?

              Did Cossacks conquer Siberia on cattle?
              Ah, brothers, devils straddled something!
              The culture of "riders on the bulls or drilled axes" of the ancestors of Andronovtsy and Srubnaya culture !!!
              The Chukchi, despite the many jokes about them, figured out their pants so long before Khabarov, Atlosov and Dezhnev!
              1. 0
                15 June 2020 13: 00
                The Chukchi, despite the many jokes about them, figured out their pants so long before Khabarov, Atlosov and Dezhnev!
                Well, thank God. And then I was frightened that before the invention of the pants by the Germans / Slavs, other peoples of the world went without them. What's in the tundra, what's in the Himalayas
    4. +4
      13 June 2020 06: 48
      Quote: Sea Cat
      what pants invented in Russia.

      actually it is believed that the Scythians
      1. +3
        13 June 2020 10: 12
        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
        Quote: Sea Cat
        what pants invented in Russia.

        actually it is believed that the Scythians

        Let me supplement you a little!
        Just the first mention of the Greeks about the pants of the Scythians. They invented them, or who else is silent about the story !!!
        The most interesting thing is that the North American Indians did not disdain trousers either! Naked fifth place H.Columba was met only by natives of the Caribbean islands.
        This autochthonous invention or borrowed from neighbors from far Siberia we also do not know !!!
        On the other hand, Vyacheslav Olegovich touched upon such an “epic topic” that it’s a sin not to scare!
        A shaman jumps around the fire and thanks the spirits, “thanks for the pants. Now we will conquer - the north "!!! laughing
      2. +1
        13 June 2020 13: 10
        Maybe so, but the Scythians are not Slavs even once
        1. +2
          13 June 2020 17: 55
          Quote: Icelord
          Maybe so, but the Scythians are not Slavs even once

          Slavs are an ethno-LINGUISTIC group, that is, not only blood but also language, and with the Scythians there is such a railway station bazaar that every second has its own opinion, with something necessarily proved by something
          1. +1
            14 June 2020 13: 28
            So and I about the same. Art is different, culture is different, funeral rites are different, religion is different, weapons are different. What are the Slavs here
        2. -1
          17 June 2020 17: 57
          Skif and Sloven, who founded Slovensk (Novgorod) on the river. Mutnoy (Volkhov). - these would be very surprised. The epochs are different, but apart from the Scythians (in the broad sense), the Slavs simply have no one to descend from. Taurian Scythians are just a side relic branch, and they ended badly. The Slavs are the overgrowth of the main trunk.
    5. +6
      13 June 2020 07: 32
      Let us return to the near times and evaluate the need for trousers, based on fiction.

      Opens the hit parade, of course, A. K. Tolstoy:

      “At one jump he left the bed
      And he began to put them on in ecstasy ”(c).
      1. +8
        13 June 2020 07: 42
        * Phew, how rude! -Said Ostap, coming in. -It’s immediately obvious, the province! They would write as they write In Moscow * There is no trouser *. more- * No ports *. laughing
        1. +6
          13 June 2020 07: 47
          This is the second thought. Just in time for Vladislav’s comment.

          The list of essentials is continued by Marshak:

          “He put his hands in his sleeves -
          It turned out to be trousers. ”
          1. +5
            13 June 2020 07: 55
            * Pants, pants — you're dirty!
            -We are not pants, we are pants!
            Trousers fall from me
            need to give the pants a belt! ... *
            How would the difference between trousers and pants? laughing
            1. +6
              13 June 2020 07: 58
              The scope, when you can lose the most necessary, showed Yesenin:

              “Each of us laid
              For a glass of your pants ”(c).
      2. +6
        13 June 2020 08: 00
        * Today suddenly, in one of the dreams
        I ended up without pants.
        In a dream I woke up drunk
        and thought that I would not get up.
        The bed is alien. The house is not mine.
        Why am I here? I want to go home!
        Hunting is more than itching. Hurry to escape from here! ... *
        1. +10
          13 June 2020 08: 09
          In Kin-Dza-Dza! appropriate place was assigned to the pants:

          “When a society has no color differentiation of pants, then there is no purpose!”
          1. +6
            13 June 2020 08: 13
            Oh, and Daniela prophesied! On our head something. wink
            1. +8
              13 June 2020 08: 19
              About masks may be a separate article.
              1. +5
                13 June 2020 08: 21
                Better not!!!! laughing
                1. +8
                  13 June 2020 08: 23
                  One plague doctor is worth what, and Venetian masks.
                  1. +6
                    13 June 2020 08: 28
                    Guy Fox! Out of competition !!!! bully
                    1. +2
                      13 June 2020 18: 23
                      "Special centurions who checked whether under the togas of citizens there were hateful barbarian trousers" after millennia, DND officers checked that they did not wear long hair.
                      This is where it came from to fight the "wrong" fashion
                  2. +4
                    13 June 2020 15: 09
                    And you notice, Sergey, that we meet at the base, on the articles of Vyacheslav Olegovich!
                    Attract us with his articles! hi
                    1. +4
                      13 June 2020 15: 12
                      Here the combination should be themes, moods and free time.

                      And since half of humanity is in trousers - how not to talk about it.
                      1. +4
                        13 June 2020 15: 16
                        Perhaps. But I am attracted by the spirit of freedom of love, the opportunity to discuss without any rudeness on the part of the opponent and the nice people in the comments! hi
                        Oh !!!! Jinxed !!!! Something someone didn’t like! Mask, mask! I know you!
                      2. +5
                        13 June 2020 15: 43
                        Forums are generally pretty masquerade. But you can only play convincingly yourself.
                      3. +3
                        13 June 2020 16: 29
                        Well, you wrapped up !!!!
                        To this:
                        - * cells, cells, cells.
                        as in the subway trolleys .... *
                      4. +3
                        13 June 2020 16: 44
                        "In Bougainville, Kentucky
                        These trousers are on sale ”(c).
                      5. +2
                        13 June 2020 18: 36
                        Well, why? I hope I am convincing enough in my game?
                      6. +2
                        13 June 2020 18: 53
                        Not enough information. In another forum - you would be slightly different. You probably also speak differently with the workers.

                        The image has developed, of course. But how close is it to reality?
                        On the other hand, we know each other a little better with each conversation.
                      7. The comment was deleted.
                      8. +2
                        13 June 2020 19: 04
                        Not enough information.
                        Quite right! As the Doctor used to say: "We are all symbols in binary code."
                      9. +1
                        13 June 2020 19: 06
                        Now for me it’s a mystery - what was hidden in the deleted comment?
                      10. +2
                        13 June 2020 19: 12
                        I deleted it. I read yours incorrectly and hastened to answer.
                      11. +1
                        13 June 2020 19: 16
                        So I understood.

                        How did Tyutchev once surprisingly say:
                        "A spoken thought is a lie."
                      12. +2
                        13 June 2020 19: 23
                        And already published - and even more so! What elevates your current opponent to the absolute.
                      13. +1
                        13 June 2020 19: 40
                        Stopped responding. I realized that if I watch all the videos (but you won’t answer otherwise), I won’t bring it to good.

                        At the same time, the number of views is impressive.

                        However, there is hope that any communication can benefit.
                      14. 0
                        13 June 2020 19: 51
                        The difference between us and similar characters is that we are confident in our innocence, but we doubt, and they are confident in our doubts.
                      15. +1
                        13 June 2020 19: 57
                        And there is. I am writing - and there are doubts.

                        What do I know about swamps? Is there a difference in the decomposition of organics on the top and bottom? What is the rate of accumulation of the cultural layer? And if garbage is taken out? Etc.

                        What I did not feel with my own hands, then when I receive new information, I can slightly change the picture of the world.
                      16. +1
                        13 June 2020 20: 17
                        You see? You, a candidate of biological sciences, admit your ignorance of some issues, and the character, having picked up the "top", inspired by one idea (they fool me), rushes like a "Belaz" along the Nevsky.
                      17. +1
                        13 June 2020 20: 23
                        This is already psychology, probably.

                        Lorenz mentioned the experience of minnow. The forebrain was removed, so the pack began to follow him.
                      18. +1
                        13 June 2020 20: 31
                        I agree, psychology, with it, flock.
                      19. +1
                        13 June 2020 20: 39
                        Flocks are likely to form everywhere.

                        Sherkhan walked alone, and that and that with the accompanying.
                      20. +2
                        13 June 2020 21: 17
                        Inadequate example. "Mowgli" is a cocktail of the author's impressions of British romanticism and Victorian reality. Kipling knew nothing about gregarious and social psychology.
                      21. +2
                        13 June 2020 21: 22
                        He knew and felt a lot. And the verses are proof of this.
                        But, of course, one cannot directly extrapolate to the life of animals and people.
        2. +5
          13 June 2020 08: 46
          Quote: Phil77
          Hunting is more than itching. Hurry to escape from here! ... *


          No way back to the leg
          I can’t get in ...
          Find the middle
          Do not fall off the chair.l
          1. +2
            13 June 2020 14: 48
            Quote: mark1
            Quote: Phil77
            Hunting is more than itching. Hurry to escape from here! ... *


            No way back to the leg
            I can’t get in ...
            Find the middle
            Do not fall off the chair.l

            Ha ha ha ha! laughing There, after all, there is also about a skirt! laughing
            1. +4
              13 June 2020 15: 26
              This quatrain was suitable for your rhyme. laughing
              1. +2
                13 June 2020 15: 44
                * all the kids are walking,
                I'm in a hurry home.
                Why panties are needed
                I’ll ask mom ... * laughing
        3. +4
          13 June 2020 16: 08
          "Guys shouldn't be naughty, so take off your pants." (from)

          Pants, as the last and symbolic barrier to the beginning of repression.
          1. +4
            13 June 2020 16: 17
            Konstantin !!! ¡!!! Hello !!!! Well, absolutely not our method !!!!!!
            laughing
            1. +3
              13 June 2020 16: 36
              Seryozha, hi! hi
              Maybe you're right. Texans say the Colt revolver is an extension of their penis. Interestingly, and the belt in the punisher’s hand is a continuation of what?
              1. +2
                13 June 2020 16: 43
                Soooo!? Let's start with philosophy? Al with erotica?
                * Revolver Colt, as a subject of high erotic culture *?!? !! The question is to whom? Correctly! To Olegych! And he is silent !!!!!!!
              2. +3
                13 June 2020 16: 45
                And ...... very correct! Party! Direct question !!!! And where is he, actually ??????
                1. +3
                  13 June 2020 16: 51
                  ... direct question !!!! And where is he, actually ??????

                  Who?!!! what
              3. +2
                13 June 2020 18: 41
                In my case, a washing machine!
                1. +3
                  13 June 2020 21: 18
                  Belt, or ... really? !!! wassat
                  1. +3
                    13 June 2020 21: 28
                    Uncle, stop you in your indefatigable fantasies! If you remember, Soviet washing machines had a removable rubber hose. With which my mother and flogged me. In general, I can’t say that it’s not good.
                    1. +4
                      13 June 2020 21: 33
                      With which my mother flogged me. In general, I can’t say that it’s not good.

                      Well, it's only you, so as not to offend your mom, he said. And my mother was tearing me up with my father’s suspenders, so daddy participated, so to speak, indirectly. But judging by my future life, everything was in vain - not a cat feed. request
                      1. +3
                        13 June 2020 21: 54
                        Well, it's only you, so as not to offend your mom, he said.
                        Not at all. In addition to life, and she still fought for her a year after my birth, however, like my father, I owe my mother a practical streak in character. And the hose from the washing machine played a significant role here.
                      2. +3
                        13 June 2020 22: 07
                        Let's not talk about sad things ... I am only happy that my mother managed to see her first grandson before leaving. So it goes...
              4. +3
                13 June 2020 20: 42
                Interestingly, and the belt in the punisher’s hand is a continuation of what?

                Konstantin, good health!
                It is important to understand who is punishing whom and whom. bully In modern life, the presence of pants, alas, does not always imply the presence of a "classic Colt" in them. winked
                1. +2
                  13 June 2020 21: 21
                  Hi Aleksey! hi Well, one of them has a club instead of Colt, but what the other one has in his suitcase is still the question!
          2. +3
            13 June 2020 17: 54
            A return to the bursa experience.
            1. +3
              13 June 2020 18: 15
              So there was something to flog. smile
              1. +3
                13 June 2020 18: 17
                More successful than with Pannochka came out.
                1. +3
                  13 June 2020 18: 28
                  So, here he has a bottle of elixir here, but he didn’t use a bottle, like. Hence the conclusion ... Look, Seryoga has already run to the store. wink
                  1. +2
                    13 June 2020 18: 56
                    Some conclusions are the same.

                    “In the interval I drove used to the store” (c).
            2. +2
              13 June 2020 18: 28
              I’ll answer, let’s go to the store. Patience. Two ya. and I. who is where? who is right?
      3. Cat
        +1
        14 June 2020 12: 28
        "You came to class in the pants of your potential enemy!" (FROM)
    6. +5
      13 June 2020 08: 04
      Quote: Sea Cat
      animal. "And surely one of them will begin to prove that the pants were invented in Russia.

      No, what are you. How could these northern barbarians invent pants? They had a climate like in Africa, and they did not need pants, as well as the Chukchi, Evenki and all sorts of Nenets.
      But the Germans - yes. They, in the conditions of their harsh climate, without pants in any way. lol
      Shpakovsky again burns. But no, to blame, this is Tacitus.
      And where is the guarantee that Tacitus is not Shpakovsky of his time?
    7. +5
      13 June 2020 08: 36
      The evolution of clothing development is best traced by the example of the Scottish kilt skirts.





      a piece of TARTAN is taken - this is a tartan fabric, so name? And in a cunning way, a person is packed for a long time and tediously. They write that kilts are very "practical and convenient."
      It is believed that kilts were invented in the 16th century, and until the 16th century, the Scots wore pants. But the spread of kilts was only in the middle of the 19th century, and NOW the Scots again changed into pants, because the "practical and comfortable" wearing of kilts actually turned out impractical and not convenient.
      Here's the story with the kilts, first they wore pants, then they used to wear little kilts, and now they again wear pants.
    8. +5
      13 June 2020 12: 02
      Russia is the birthplace of pants!
    9. +2
      13 June 2020 17: 33
      Of course, after all, Russia is the birthplace of elephants
  2. +2
    13 June 2020 06: 00
    Today, the Roman Empire is accepted only in * superlatives * and nothing else. Especially today, following Hitler, Europeans are firmly convinced that they are * descendants of roofing felts of the ancient Greeks, roofing felts of the ancient Romans *. From that to all peoples outside Europe necessarily add * barbarian *, without even realizing that the barbarian means - * not Hellenic *
    By the way, it is very interesting how these Romans waged wars. We are talking about the famous military rebuilding and about courage. In fact, the Romans waged war against a few tribes, as a rule with a huge numerical superiority. And how court historians know how to LY we know. In ancient times, they lied even more inspiredly, some even in rhyme.
    Nomads fought in about the same way, as soon as there are a lot of them, you can fight, rob, and then write heroic stories.
    As a model of lies, you can take the writings of the Byzantines about the war with Svyatoslav, near the town of DOROSTOL.
    And more about the * savagery of the barbarians *. In Rome, they loved parchment on human skin, especially on the skin of children captured from * barbarians *. Therefore, relatives of the ruined children burned books. Even so, giving burial to tortured children.
    Although in England and the Vatican still keep books written on the skin of children.
    (about the conviction of origin. He himself witnessed how students at the German university argued on this subject, clutched at their breasts, but tolerance didn’t allow them to fight.)
    1. +1
      13 June 2020 07: 04
      Germans are fair-haired, blue-eyed. Europeans themselves do not belong to the descendants of the Romans. Where in the word barbarian, the particle is not and Hellenic. Moreover, the Romans did not attribute themselves to the Hellenes. We are now talking about the gatherings of the same inhabitants of Asia, they say: they mumble something in their own way, gr, gr, gr, and that the figs knows him. Describing strangers in the same way, the Roman said, he mutters that it is a var, a var, and what he says is incomprehensible, well, the barbarian went. To conquer, a numerical superiority is needed, and this was then known. Leather dressing, manufacturing is a very long process. The removed skin needs to be saved to the workshop, usually it is salting, but salt was not enough for grub. One body, one leaf. Imagine how many were killed and skinned near such workshops, and where the bodies disappeared. In Christianity, human sacrifice is forbidden. Somehow I can’t imagine the gospel written on human skin. Especially on children's skin, it is most likely impractical, thin and fragile.
      1. +1
        13 June 2020 13: 05
        Anthrodermic binding is a book binding made of human skin. Today, this technique is not used, but in XVII — XIX Over the centuries, it has been distributed quite widely [1]. The practice of anthropodermal binding is inextricably linked with the practice of tanning human skin after dissections body of the donor.

        That is, this is not about the Romans.
    2. +1
      13 June 2020 09: 33
      I witnessed how students argued in all seriousness. I saw and heard this.
      The concept of * Hellen * included a lot of things, from origin, education and behavior in everyday life. Not everyone who lived in Ancient Greece belonged to * Hellenes *. There and * poganos * lived both slaves and foreigners.
      The Greeks were proud of their well-groomed beards. Like their ancestors Pelasgians. The incredulous should look at the busts of ancient Greek that have come down to us and their Roman counterparts.
  3. +5
    13 June 2020 06: 06
    The main type of clothing of the Greeks, Romans and other representatives of the Mediterranean culture was a simple draped piece of linen, while the ancient Germans and Gauls in the west and Parthians in the east possessed the technique of cutting and sewing

    Duc, cold is not an aunt, quickly learns ....

    The statement about "a simple draped piece of cloth" among the Mediterranean is somewhat discordant with the articles of the author about Crete, etc.: both cut and sewing are present there.
    1. +4
      13 June 2020 08: 55
      Andrew! hi
      It does not discord, for the Minoan and ancient cultures are not identical.
      1. +4
        13 June 2020 10: 27
        Quote: 3x3zsave
        Andrew! hi
        It does not discord, for the Minoan and ancient cultures are not identical.

        I’ll supplement Anton a little!
        Toga in ancient Rome and Hellas is a status thing - a sign of citizenship.
      2. +2
        13 June 2020 10: 52
        Quote: 3x3zsave
        Andrew!
        It does not discord, for the Minoan and ancient cultures are not identical.

        Anton! hi

        You are inattentive:
        Author: The main type of clothing of the Greeks, Romans and other representatives of the Mediterranean culture


        Minoan is ... not the Mediterranean? One thing.

        So that is discordant.
        1. +3
          13 June 2020 11: 07
          Then, following a logical chain, the Egyptians, Phoenicians, Iberians can also be attributed here ...
          1. +1
            13 June 2020 11: 18
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            Then, following a logical chain, the Egyptians, Phoenicians, Iberians can also be attributed here ...

            This is exactly what the respected author wrote.
            .
            Which caused some vague doubts ....
  4. +1
    13 June 2020 06: 21
    And the Romans "barbarian" - this is just a "stranger."
    No, respected by the Romans, it meant a bearded man or a man with a beard ...
    1. +2
      13 June 2020 06: 24
      That is, Emperor Sever was a barbarian?
      1. +5
        13 June 2020 10: 29
        Quote: ZeevZeev
        That is, Emperor Sever was a barbarian?

        And what did you want from the person "North", moreover, a native of Africa from the horseman class. Savage in one word! laughing
      2. +5
        13 June 2020 13: 44
        Quote: ZeevZeev
        That is, Emperor Sever was a barbarian?

        For them it meant the same as goy among the Jews, gajin among the Japanese.
        1. +2
          13 June 2020 15: 39
          * Nemchin * -We are Russian! laughing
      3. +1
        13 June 2020 15: 10
        That is, Emperor Sever was a barbarian?

        The north was a true Roman, albeit a provincial.
        The Romans were nationalists, but they had cultural nationalism, not blood nationalism.
        The funny thing is that the reference barbarian from the chamber of weights and measures was most likely the beardless Maximin Frakits.
        Even if the word barbarian meant once a bearded man, it lost its original meaning even in the era of Pericles. The Romans borrowed the word from the Greeks already in the new nominative meaning-a person not of our culture.
        The Romans themselves were for a long time barbarians in the eyes of the Greeks
        "The order of these barbarians is not at all barbaric" - a certain Pyrrhus about the Roman camp according to Plutarch
        1. +1
          13 June 2020 15: 18
          Quote: Engineer
          Even if the word barbarian meant once a bearded man, it lost its original meaning even in the era of Pericles

          The Greeks never used this word to mean a bearded man.
          βάρβαρος in ancient Greek meant "stuttering"
          1. +2
            13 June 2020 15: 23
            The Greeks never used this word to mean a bearded man.

            In mass culture left. It was just that I did not want to argue about this at all. Therefore wrote streamlined
            1. +3
              13 June 2020 15: 33
              Ancient Greek Beard-γένειον
          2. 0
            13 June 2020 20: 57
            Greeks before the 2nd century BC did not use the Latin word barba (beard) as a linguistic basis for designating strangers for a simple reason - the Greeks themselves wore beards.

            The Roman historian Strabo at the beginning of our era, after the conquest of Greece by Rome, sucked out of his finger the "information" that supposedly the Greeks in the 4th century BC. in the person of Hecateus of Miletus, the word βάρβαρος was used to denote foreigners. In addition to the unconfirmed opinion of Strabo, there is no other evidence of the Greeks as the authors of this supposedly sound-reflecting word from the word at all.

            In reality, the Greeks themselves borrowed the word barbar from the Romans as a term for strangers, since after Rome conquered Greece in the 2nd century BC. the population of the new Roman province underwent linguistic and cultural assimilation, including in the form of borrowings of Latin words and habits of shaving beards.

            PS The delusional version of the onomatopoeic nature of the word barbar is supported by idiots from Pedovikia, who are firmly convinced that Barbarossa translates as Red Barbarian, and barbershop as a barbaric store laughing
  5. +14
    13 June 2020 07: 07
    Thank you for an interesting article and no less interesting illustrations with photos, it was interesting to read!
  6. -1
    13 June 2020 07: 33
    Falsification of history is booming. And gives abundant fruits in uncritical minds laughing Plant tissues decompose in the ground in six months. Woolen for the year. Column of Trajan is made of 20 blocks of Carrara marble. The term of TOTAL destruction of white marble is 1200 years. It was supposed to turn into sand at the beginning of the 14th century. And this if no one had touched her finger. And only barbarians, according to official history, 7 times captured Rome.
    1. +7
      13 June 2020 07: 51
      And in the swamp how long does the clothing last?
      1. +1
        13 June 2020 07: 54
        I do not know for sure. But, the higher the soil moisture, the higher the decomposition rate.
        1. +6
          13 June 2020 08: 01
          Peat preserves organic matter very well.
          1. +1
            13 June 2020 08: 49
            Yes. But only dry.
            1. +3
              13 June 2020 09: 15
              Have you heard about the “man from Tollund” and other so-called “swamp people”?
              1. 0
                13 June 2020 10: 14
                Of course. Actually, the Tollund man himself was found at a depth of a little more than two meters. And they determined his age at 2000 years. According to GOST R 54611-2011, the depth of the grave is from 1,5 to 2,2 m. I think my idea is clear? wink
                1. +3
                  13 June 2020 10: 26
                  Please explain. I suspect that they could handle the burial without the 2011 standards.
                  1. -1
                    13 June 2020 10: 28
                    If he died today, he would lie at exactly the same depth
                    1. +3
                      13 June 2020 10: 38
                      Could be an argument. But, as far as I know, the rate of peat formation can be about 1 mm per year.
                      1. 0
                        13 June 2020 11: 01
                        In this case, all people lying in your cemetery should be 2000 years old.
                      2. +4
                        13 June 2020 11: 11
                        Our cemeteries in the swamps do not place.
                      3. -1
                        13 June 2020 12: 12
                        There was not always a swamp. You yourself said 1 mm of soil per year. People in the graves under two meters. But okay. Now is not about that. That's how it really was. Found a well-preserved body, called the police. Since no one was lost in the nearby settlements, and the chances to identify, let alone solve the case, regardless of whether it was a murder or an accident, were null and void, they assigned him to the category of archaeological finds and invited the latter. Archaeologists are of little use for an ordinary corpse. Unless of course there are no artifacts with him. Getting them is easy. You can even do it yourself. Dohlyachek plus some rusty knife and fragments of ceramics are already material for scientific work. Think this is just my guess? Then let's remember the story with another person - Piltdown. For almost half a century, he was considered one of the greatest finds. Well, the missing link between the monkey and the sapiens! More than 400 dissertations were written on it. And then it turned out that this was just a crude fake. It turned out that the skull was no more than 600 years old, and the jaw - 500 years old. And they belonged to the most ordinary people.
                      4. +6
                        13 June 2020 12: 41
                        1 mm peat formation.

                        The hoax of the Piltdown man was initially ambiguously perceived, and only “found” in one place.
                        Yes, and the jaw, most likely an orangutan, was identified.

                        The finds of the “swamp people” are already more than a thousand.
                      5. -4
                        13 June 2020 12: 53
                        Naturally. Not all scientists are corrupt. But alas, the majority. Yes, even a million. There are 7,5 billion people on the planet. If one of them found its end in the swamp, this is no reason to classify their bodies in the prehistoric period. You can see how archaeological finds are made from 7:25. Better all the videos.
                      6. +4
                        13 June 2020 13: 44
                        How many pathos, strain in this video.
                        Does not convince even once.

                        On birch bark letters more than once, and at this forum we were talking.
                      7. -3
                        13 June 2020 13: 49
                        What convinces you, the so-called "scientists" like those archaeologists? wassat
                      8. +6
                        13 June 2020 13: 58
                        Most convincing are those things that are measured.

                        Even Mendeleev said: "Science begins from the time when they begin to measure."
                        And then there may already be logical messages.

                        Two minutes later, I realized who the author of the video reminds me of - the hero of Shukshin’s story “Cut off”.
                      9. -1
                        13 June 2020 14: 49
                        Since you recalled Mendeleev, can you recall that his table was castrated by throwing ether out of it? Here are all measured:
                      10. The comment was deleted.
                      11. -2
                        13 June 2020 15: 12
                        Since you remembered Mendeleev, you may remember that his table was castrated by throwing ether out of it? Well, everyone thought:
                    2. 0
                      14 June 2020 04: 58
                      If he died today, he would be buried the day after tomorrow.
        2. +8
          13 June 2020 08: 05
          But why explain that with * Titanic * some items of passenger clothing were lifted? Although they were in leather suitcases, but nonetheless ... hi
          1. +10
            13 June 2020 08: 17
            Everyone knows that the Titanic drowned J. Cameron. wassat
            1. +6
              13 June 2020 08: 26
              Exactly! Having entered into a criminal conspiracy with the insidious Iceberg.
              How not to exclaim here:
              -What is not an Iceberg, then ... well, you know who! laughingGood morning Anton!
              1. +4
                13 June 2020 10: 45
                Quote from Korsar4
                And in the swamp how long does the clothing last?

                Quote: Alexander Samoilov
                I do not know for sure. But, the higher the soil moisture, the higher the decomposition rate.

                Shingar wooden idol - approximate age over 10 years!
                Continue to continue?
                Regards, Vlad!
                1. +5
                  13 June 2020 10: 55
                  Another thing is that, as I understand it, the same flax has not been preserved for such a long time.
            2. +3
              13 June 2020 13: 45
              Quote: 3x3zsave
              Everyone knows that the Titanic drowned J. Cameron. wassat

              Jews - Pilot, Boatswain and Iceberg
              1. +4
                13 June 2020 15: 32
                Hi Albert! Especially the iceberg! laughing
                1. +3
                  13 June 2020 15: 34
                  Greetings! hi Icebergs, Weissbergs, Eisenbergs and all sorts of Rabinovichi there! (with)
                  1. +5
                    13 June 2020 15: 37
                    Okay, the rest! But he, who did he work for? The Fed has not yet been created, massad is similar. Who is the customer?
                    1. +2
                      13 June 2020 17: 35
                      Well, how are the protagonists of the protocols of the Zion wise men fellow
              2. +4
                13 June 2020 15: 58
                Boatswain? My friend, there’s a minimum of questions for him, he poor fellow died with six team members when a certain Lightoiler sent him to find out the situation in the bow compartments * of the Titanic *.
                No, he’s out of business! Iceberg! He, guilty of everything. laughing
              3. +4
                13 June 2020 16: 24
                Iceberg??? He always believed that his name was Pereverzev. request

                Greetings Albert! drinks
                1. +5
                  13 June 2020 16: 53
                  My friend! Turning over to * Blue Arrow * !!!!! Boris Novikov flashed there too! drinks
                  1. +4
                    13 June 2020 17: 22
                    It goes without saying in Strela, in the role of the commander of a "spy" submarine. And his famous address to his CEO: "Yanson, you have the eyes of a dreamily chewing cow." laughing

                    And Novikov played the role of the technician Dudnik. smile
                    1. +4
                      13 June 2020 17: 26
                      Oh, amigo !!! If I could insert pictures and stuff?!?!? Alas, me!
                      1. +4
                        13 June 2020 17: 28
                        And so, what are the problems?
                      2. +4
                        13 June 2020 17: 31
                        I’m writing from the phone. And that’s it! Take as you like.
                    2. +2
                      13 June 2020 18: 44
                      * Titanic * don’t touch! Holy it !!!! laughing
                2. +2
                  13 June 2020 17: 37
                  Greetings! drinks
                  Disguised, changed his last name, Schaub released abroad
                  1. +4
                    13 June 2020 17: 40
                    Of course!!! Everything is as usual. laughing drinks
                  2. +4
                    13 June 2020 17: 44
                    And you blabber me in PM what to look for, find and lay out.
                  3. +2
                    13 June 2020 18: 46
                    * Who are you, then, huh?
                    Stab, tramp !!! * wassat
          2. +1
            13 June 2020 08: 49
            Sea water is a very strong brine.
            1. +3
              13 June 2020 16: 36
              I’ll add to your comment that the organic remains of passengers, etc. * Titanic * were completely decomposed by the 40s. Completely! Including skeletons. Alas.
              1. 0
                13 June 2020 16: 46
                Not decomposed, but eaten. Primarily plankton.
                1. +4
                  13 June 2020 16: 58
                  Plankton? At a depth of over 3 kilometers?
                  1. +4
                    13 June 2020 17: 05
                    Sasha! / Sorry for the familiarity! / Do you mean holoplankton, al meroplankton?
                    1. +1
                      13 June 2020 18: 21
                      Plankton is even in the Mariana Trench. Although with depth its amount is constantly falling. And below 8 km it is very small. Golo, meralo mainly grazes on the shelf.
                      1. +2
                        13 June 2020 18: 59
                        Got it! Do you mean meroplankton? But., Depth! 3700! It is fraught, no?
                      2. +2
                        13 June 2020 19: 05
                        Oceanologist, no?
                      3. +2
                        13 June 2020 19: 18
                        Alexander! Come on, justification !!!
                2. +2
                  13 June 2020 19: 13
                  No, my friend, it is laid out!
                  1. 0
                    13 June 2020 20: 28
                    "The Soviet expeditionary ship" Vityaz "has been conducting research into deep ocean plankton since 1953. Plankton nets, for example, sank to a depth of 9 thousand meters in the Pacific Ocean. And everywhere the catches brought a certain amount of plankton organisms. m3) in the Pacific Ocean (according to M.E. Vinogradov)
              2. +5
                13 June 2020 17: 43
                Including skeletons

                They ate the fish, with "harness and boots". request
            2. +4
              13 June 2020 17: 23
              And you need to drink beer. drinks
              1. 0
                13 June 2020 19: 43
                And why am I so drunk? What did I endure with the Titanic *?
                Well, I could not stand it, I !!! ¡¡
              2. 0
                13 June 2020 19: 45
                Throw it to me !!!!
              3. 0
                13 June 2020 19: 54
                Drink it yourself! Russians don’t drink it !!!!
                1. +1
                  13 June 2020 19: 56
                  Uncle Kostya !!! ¡!!
                  1. 0
                    13 June 2020 20: 05
                    Out ... Seryoga, go to bed, but first do not forget to remove the skates from the boots. smile drinks
                    1. +1
                      13 June 2020 20: 12
                      Yavol! Skates removed, friend, come on!
                      1. +1
                        13 June 2020 20: 14
                        Happily, brother. drinks
                      2. +1
                        14 June 2020 07: 44
                        I apologize for yesterday !!! I repent !!!! Unloading-home. hi hi
                      3. +1
                        14 June 2020 07: 47
                        Seryoga, do not worry, everything is fine! The main thing is that a competent hangover does not smoothly transfer to the next binge. smile drinks
                        Check out the article on mercenaries.
                      4. +1
                        14 June 2020 07: 54
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        The main thing is that a competent hangover does not smoothly transfer to the next binge.

                        Excluded! Mine is arriving today! I was visiting my granddaughter. Yes, they won’t even understand at work. No, * relaxed * ended!
                      5. +1
                        14 June 2020 07: 55
                        ended * slack *!

                        It's a shame ... request
        3. +7
          13 June 2020 13: 36
          Quote: Alexander Samoilov
          the higher the soil moisture, the higher the decomposition rate

          Nonsense. Nonsense, exposing you as a person who is not burdened even with a minimum of knowledge on this issue. Everything is exactly the opposite.
          The wetter the soil, the better organic matter is preserved in it, and not only organic matter. An ideal place for conservation is a swamp. This is well known not only by archaeologists, but also by modern search engines.
          In a swamp, or just in wet soil at great depths, deeper than the freezing line, the object is always in the same temperature, in the same humidity and, which is especially important, in an oxygen-free environment. Hence the "swamp people" and Novgorod birch bark letters.
          1. -1
            13 June 2020 14: 34
            The main factor of destruction is not temperature drops or oxygen itself. These are microorganisms. And their number is directly proportional to humidity. If only the water is fresh. There are two types of swamps - young and old or mature. In the latter, the water is no different from river or lake water. But a lot of sphagnum grows on them, and it is an antiseptic. In the young, where decay processes are still actively taking place, the water contains a lot of gases, mainly methane. In addition, due to the absence of horizontal convection, the bottom part of the bogs is largely an anaerobic environment. All this somewhat reduces the number and activity of bacteria in comparison with other water bodies. However, they always outperform those in any soil. And search engines find mainly in swamps, since they have collected everything in other places long ago. "Microbiologia non a penis canis." wink
            1. +6
              13 June 2020 21: 08
              Swamp soil has great acidity, so there are no microorganisms there.

              It’s another matter that for millennia, bog acid acid bleaches organic matter to black, but human skin, hair, bones and internal organs, tissues and leather products are preserved perfectly.
              1. -1
                14 June 2020 04: 53
                You are wrong. "The number of microorganisms in swamps reaches hundreds of millions of cells in one gram of peat. The most important processes carried out by microorganisms are the decomposition of organic matter, methanogenesis, oxidation of methane, nitrogen fixation, as well as the decomposition of phenolic compounds produced by sphagnum mosses." Bodelier PLE, Dedysh SN Microbiology of wetlands. Frontiers in Microbiology, 2013. Moreover, since the end of the 20th century, swamps have been the main search site for the discovery of new species. "This has changed with the introduction of molecular techniques. Microbiologists now have a tool to identify microorganisms directly in swamp samples by extracting and analyzing DNA." Phylogenetic analysis and in situ identification of Bacteria community composition in an acidic Sphagnum peat bog. Appl. Environ. Microbiol. 2006. V. 72. No. 3. “When such a molecular analysis was performed, it turned out that most of the nucleotide sequences found in peat of bogs belonged to bacteria of completely unknown groups or groups about which very little is known. For example, these are groups of bacteria in which there are no more than a dozen cultivated representatives, and they still represent a mystery in relation to functions and metabolic potential.If a microbiologist succeeds in isolating a microbe that represents such a mystery group, then this attracts the attention of microbiologists all over the world.A number of interesting new microorganisms managed to isolate from the northern bog ecosystems. " Dedysh SN Cultivating uncultured bacteria from Northern wetlands: knowledge gained and remaining gaps. Frontiers in Microbiology, 2011, 2.
                1. +2
                  14 June 2020 11: 52
                  I would advise British scientists and their fans to look for microorganisms also in acid bottles laughing
            2. +4
              13 June 2020 22: 35
              Quote: Alexander Samoilov
              search engines find mostly in the swamps, because in other places for a long time all gathered.

              Well, invite the "black ranger" to dig in the sand. laughing
              Okay, you have fully demonstrated your ignorance on this issue. Even the Operator, my eternal antagonist, tells you the same thing that I, this should lead you to at least some thoughts. By the way, I’ll put him a plus on my own - a man pleased me.
    2. 0
      13 June 2020 15: 48
      then now in the ocean floating fabric fibers made from natural materials of 50-70 years of release, it turned out that it decomposes much longer than expected, there was a recent study
  7. +6
    13 June 2020 07: 44
    Interesting. It’s one thing to walk “In the midst of pines and roses” along the shores of the Mediterranean Sea, and it’s another to step over the wind.
    1. +1
      13 June 2020 19: 27
      My friend! What is the matter with me? I drink and it seems to die! why, die? and with whom I die? and here is the question:
      - why die? *
      Question to you, Friend! Huh?
      1. +1
        13 June 2020 19: 47
        Wow. Yesenin's questions to the Black man.

        For our generation, this may already be acute.
        I am convinced that from every person in life there is a lot of good.
        1. +1
          13 June 2020 20: 26
          So worth thinking about? A Black Man! Sergey, let's think. WE ARE EXACTLY THEY?
          1. 0
            13 June 2020 20: 36
            No. We are we. And look in the mirror is not necessary. And at sunset it’s quite good.
  8. The comment was deleted.
  9. +1
    13 June 2020 09: 25
    The author has mixed in a bunch of horses, people.

    Romans / Greeks / Phoenicians / Egyptians, Celts / Gauls / Britons and Germans / Scandinavians lived in different climates and had different clothes - the harsher the climate, the more layers of clothing, the sandals replaced with closed shoes and the more common pants made of fabric , leather and fur. In Persians, Scythians and Alans, trousers performed a protective role when riding a horse in connection with the absence of saddles and stirrups during the existence of the Roman Empire. Due to the small number of their cavalry, the Romans ignored the trousers.

    PS The Romans spoke Latin, obviously, therefore, they did not know such a Russian word as "barbarian": they called the Celts, Germans and Parthians barbars - bearded (in contrast to the shaven Romans) laughing
  10. +3
    13 June 2020 09: 44
    With all my great respect for the author, I can’t help myself, so as not to complain about some, in my opinion, inaccuracies.
    First nitpicking:
    since a man mounted a horse and put on his pants before it, clothes began to be divided into male and female!
    However, the epigraph to the article, taken from the biblical book of Deuteronomy, which in a more expanded form looks like this: "A woman should not wear men's clothing, and a man should not wear women's clothing, for everyone who does this is an abomination to the Lord your God" testifies, that among peoples who do not wear pants, women's and men's clothing was clearly separated even in ancient times.
    Second nitpicking:
    German men beards shaved ...
    Perhaps shaved, but apparently not all and not always. At least the name of one of the Germanic tribes of the Langobards (long beards) clearly hints that the latter not only had beards, but that their beards were large.
    1. 0
      13 June 2020 10: 33
      The author clearly floats in the subject - Germans from the time of the Roman Empire loved to dye their hair and beards red, therefore, it was difficult to calculate the ratio of brunettes and blondes in their midst. Roman historians only talked about the greater presence among the Germans of blondes with bright eyes - compared with the Romans, Greeks, Gauls, Iberians and other Mediterranean peoples.

      The phenotype (appearance) of the Romans, Gauls, and Iberians was determined by the initial phenotype of Erbins (R1b) - the ancestors of 90% of Western Europeans, whose typical representatives are Basques and Irish. The phenotype of the Romans was also influenced by a large proportion of black-haired and dark-skinned hamites (E1) - immigrants from Africa and Greece who migrated to the south of the Apennine Peninsula.

      The mixed phenotype of the Scandinavians and Germans was determined by a large proportion (up to 25%) in their composition of descendants of the Central European Aryans (R1a) - blood relatives of the East European Aryans (ancestors of the Slavs) with a predominantly fair-haired and light-eyed phenotype - from light brown hair and blue eyes to platinum blondes and gray eyes.
    2. +5
      13 June 2020 10: 51
      Some went to battle in principle - not closer! But this does not mean that they did not have pants !!! bully
      As the saying goes, the exception confirms the rule. smile
      Regards, Vlad!
  11. +1
    13 June 2020 09: 56
    If we talk about culture, then, for example, the culturally impossible phalangites of Macedon stomped barefoot into battle.
    1. +7
      13 June 2020 11: 56
      Quote: saigon
      If we talk about culture, then, for example, the culturally impossible phalangites of Macedon stomped barefoot into battle.

      Yeah! You read Fuclid what he thought of the Macedonians and Thracians! He was a very cultured man - he wore sandals!
      Now it’s clear why the Macedonian phalanx was defeated by the Roman legions! Sandals are Roman everything, the top of civilization!
      Although there are exceptions! Lapotniki Svyatoslav defeated the Khazar Kaganate in yuft boots, and the boots of Alexander Nevsky - the Germans in iron sabatons !!! recourse
      No, I understood the landmark of culture - these are galoshes! Chekhov and Bulgakov wrote about them! Mendeleev went to them !!!
      And if you cross the felt boots with the ears, then “Hitler is coming up!” Tested empirically near Moscow at 41 !!!
      Now seriously!
      Had to carry grandfathers military cloaks and fathers chrome boots! I do not regret it! Just today, in galoshes, I was sorting through a woodpile in the garden! In winter, I remove the snow from the roof always in felt boots! Into the forest in cuirass! Culture is straight - rushing !!! drinks
      1. +1
        13 June 2020 12: 12
        Bast shoes were invented in the XVI-VII centuries, and boots even later.
        But if, in your opinion, in your felt boots, do you think it is convenient to fight on the ice of the lake?
        1. +5
          13 June 2020 15: 01
          Quote: ee2100
          Bast shoes were invented in the XVI-VII centuries, and boots even later.

          Sorry, I didn’t make out the timeline you proposed.
          As for boots, the first options * wire rods *, and a whole series of names, they appeared very long ago. And not in Russia!
          Lapti? But after all, shoes of this type have been woven since ancient times. In any case, archaeologists even find bone * kochedyky * / weaving hooks even in the parking lots of an ancient man.
          * Wakaji * - a kind of bast shoes, the Japanese had. The North American Indians had similar shoes. hi
          1. +1
            13 June 2020 15: 18
            In Dmitrovka I missed one letter "x". We need the XVI-XVII centuries. I wrote that bast shoes, and not something similar to them, appeared in the 16-17 centuries. Valenki, and not something like that, later. In general, this question was addressed to a cat lover.
            Historians who study clothing, not to be confused with "fashion historians", think so. Although, like everyone who has their own opinion, they have their own opinion.
            Historians believe that the main footwear in our latitudes, and to the north, were "Porsches", although they do not deny the presence of boots.
            Maybe you’ll answer how the squad of Prince Alexander fought in mid-April on the ice of Lake Peipsi in felt boots or something similar.
            1. +2
              13 June 2020 15: 22
              I'll try. Most likely, some kind of leather protectors were sewn on the sole of the boots.
              And probably they were always used, otherwise? Wear would be very good! No?
              1. +1
                13 June 2020 15: 36
                Studded: felt boots or rubber lamella type cells. laughing
                Or maybe there was just a battle in another place, well, Alexander wasn’t.
                1. +2
                  13 June 2020 15: 49
                  Not an option! Far to rubber!
                  Leather! Only leather! Thick, so that all fall-winter-spring is enough! laughing
                  1. +1
                    13 June 2020 16: 28
                    But what about the battle on ice, even on leather soles?
                    1. +2
                      13 June 2020 17: 09
                      Friend! Yes, believe me, elementary!
                      Well, what are you, right, as if you didn’t play hockey, but ???????
                      1. +1
                        13 June 2020 17: 34
                        Got it! They played hockey there! am
                      2. +2
                        13 June 2020 17: 37
                        Come on in more detail, my friend! Played? Where? You? Perhaps crossed, no?
                      3. +1
                        13 June 2020 17: 43
                        I practically did not play hockey. Last time 5-6 years ago.
                        Trying to argue arguably over the wire places so-called Battle of the Ice. I asked several questions to Shpakovsky on the topic, he could not answer them .. I will wait when this topic will be on the hook again.
                      4. +2
                        13 June 2020 17: 43
                        Played? No!
                      5. +1
                        13 June 2020 18: 01
                        I wanted to insert a photo, but the site does not give
                      6. 0
                        13 June 2020 18: 24
                        https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ElCvBm9ipapOAQUOujpCTG5df_Bhjk5L/view?usp=drivesdk
                2. +4
                  13 June 2020 18: 35
                  Quote: ee2100
                  Studded: felt boots or rubber lamella type cells. laughing
                  Or maybe there was just a battle in another place, well, Alexander wasn’t.

                  For the “cat lover”!
                  The hemmed boots are called burkas! The first archaeological finds of dried shoes on the territory of the Tver Principality date back to the 13th century.
                  Well, the last thing, cats on valenki are good for hats!
                  R.s. Moreover, “caps from the tomcat” bring luck to their owners! It is proved by Muscovites on their own experience when going to Ryazan !!! laughing
                  Well, the last - bast shoes are mentioned in the PVL! And to the events of the 10th century! So, slurp the jail galosh!
                  Sincerely, Kitty!
                  1. 0
                    13 June 2020 18: 40
                    Drop the links and I agree
                    1. +2
                      13 June 2020 19: 23
                      Quote: ee2100
                      Drop the links and I agree

                      Link to the Tale of Bygone Years? laughing
                      Likhachev has the best text !!! Read !!!
                      1. +1
                        13 June 2020 21: 14
                        Themselves wrote that somewhere they found something "like boots" there is no link. The reference to PVL, in Likhachev's retelling, is also about nothing. The last edition of the chronicles was in the 16-17 centuries.
                        It is impossible to write with such venopodian pathos about bast shoes and felt boots without first acquainting oneself with the subject.
                        Everyone knows how and from what bast shoes are made, but the term of their "service" for an adult is 6-10 days. How many pairs of authorities should you take with you on a hike? Bast shoes are not at all durable, not durable shoes and unstable shoes. The story about "bast shoe Russia" was formed in the XIX at the so-called. Russian liberals.
                        About boots. In order to write that the whole army of Prince Alexander was in felt boots, it would be nice to get acquainted with the manufacturing technology of these.
                        The technology is simple, you can find it on the Internet. But the price of boots before their industrial production was extremely high. And they began to be manufactured industrially in the XNUMXth century.
                        In our latitudes wears pims, pistons, cats, and boots.
                        I will advise you to read the works of an archaeologist, Doctor of Historical Sciences A.Kurbatova.
                        The shield did not touch and like your galoshes. Have a nice evening.
                        For some reason, everyone forgets the last question about the so-called. The battle of the ice. I understand. One chronicler wrote, and disentangle the descendants.
                      2. +2
                        13 June 2020 22: 19
                        About the shoes of the Eastern Slavs, it is worth looking at the candidate of historical sciences Chudinova.
                        According to the PVL chronology, according to Shazmatov, an excerpt about the monologue “On Bast Shoes” by Dobrynia and Prince Vladimir belongs to the third edition (Novgorod anonym)! That is, at least by the 11th century.
                        Now we read that you mentioned Kurbatov - "bast shoes made of leather straps"! OPS!
                        Now a little about practice! I myself make linden washcloths! Made from my blanks and bast shoes! Comfortable summer shoes. An analogue of the shales, killed in two weeks !!!
                        On ice on the Battle of Ice !!! Yes, even in April !!! I don’t know about you, for me it’s the norm !!! Two meter snowdrifts in the garden on the eve of the Ice Battle, I laid out last year! Ice from the ponds disappears by the end of April, snow in the forest lies until the 20th of May. Snow in June is the norm! Look at the meteorology of the Middle Urals 1 time five years! This year, Vyacheslav Olegovich also tried to convince me - there was no ice, the knights could not sink - that's why it was shallow, etc. Not convinced !!!
                        Well, the last, I did not write that the entire army of Alexander Nevsky was in felt boots!
                        About Valenok technology, and who told you that in the 11th century it was a full cycle! By the way, if you are a specialist, then the question is, how do 'pima differ from boots? And what is chuni? We built a hut and sheepskin coat in Russia, felt boots !!! There is a difference!
                        For information, a pair of bast shoes is braided in two hours.
                        Yes, the very last! You know the word - "sarcasm"! Erinichnaya in my post, I was looking for parallels between culture and shoes! So, if the army of Alexander Nevsky “shod” the Germans in cats, then essentially nothing changes!
                        Last nail you want! Contemporaries of the American Civil War noticed that many Confederate soldiers took care of their boots and walked barefoot on campaigns! This is the 19th century! Sadly, everything is like the victorious hoplites of the Macedonians, but it did not help!
                        Or Emperor Caligula! Continue to continue !!! laughing
                        Sincerely, thanks for the discussion !!! I forgot to ride on the pistons, okay - the cat is with them !!!
                      3. +1
                        13 June 2020 22: 29
                        If it’s not too late for you, read the argument that the battle in April 1242 was elsewhere.
                        What the chronicle describes. Prince Alexander comes under the walls of Dorpat and besieges him. Part of the army is sent to plunder the lands surrounding the city. Domash, the mayor's brother, dies in a skirmish with knights going to the aid of the besieged fortress. Alexander and his army were frightened and flee. How do they run? Running in a hurry leaving the camp? Or are they retreating in an organized manner? And one more question. Why are they running towards Lake Peipsi. From the site of the alleged battle to Dorpat in a straight line about 100 km. More on the way. It would be more logical to run towards Izborsk. The distance is the same. But you will meet the enemy behind the fortress walls. Do knights chase fleeing ones? Let's say yes. This can be a maximum of 5-7 km if you have not caught up. After that, the persecutors return to the fortress, and the retreating ones can rest calmly, comprehend what is happening, transform, etc. And if they don't persecute? It turns out that fear seized Alexander and his army and they fled for 4–5 days and only on the ice of the lake come to their senses. Will the knights chase the retreating troops for 4-5 days? No. They fulfilled their task. The fortress was released, the enemy retreated. If the enemy wants to continue fighting, then you are welcome - we are in the fortress. Let's say the knights are chasing the army of Alexander. How do they know where fear will release Alexander and he will stop. Maybe he will run to Novgorod. And this is a different preparation and logistics. As we know, the case took place on April 5 (12). Hydrologists who have studied this issue say with a 50% probability that there could be ice suitable for finding on it. Let's say fit. Let's say the battle took place on the SPRING ice. Spring ice is a pure ice rink. And yet, I would like to know in what shoes one and the other side fought. If you answer all these questions following elementary logic, common sense and personal experience, then something is not real. To put it mildly. The battle took place in the area of ​​modern Tartu. Why the chronicler transferred him to the Peipsi (Warm) Lake area is a question for him. As they say, "He is an artist, he sees so."
                      4. 0
                        13 June 2020 22: 46
                        I am extremely critical of the annals, and what Dobrynya and Prince Vladimir talked about is a question for Shakhmatov.
                        About Kurbatov. He found leather straps and thought it was an analogue of bast shoes, or maybe it's sandals? Or maybe something else altogether.
                        Laptey did not find anyone anywhere in the excavations before 17. And the version that bast shoes is a product of the 16-17th century is not only with Kurbatov.
                        The manufacturing technology of felt boots is one and it cannot be "not a complete cycle"
                        You will read about chuni and pima.
                        You wrote that "boots of the Nevsky" implying vigilantes. That's all.
                        Until the XNUMXth century, leather shoes were very expensive and really cherished, no one argues.
                        In the Warm Lake, where the battle is supposed to have taken place, it is very easy to drown on a horse. He himself was fishing there, I know.
                        There is very little information about ancient shoes, so it became interesting to me and read something.
                  2. +3
                    13 June 2020 19: 38
                    ... cats on felt boots are good for hats!

                    But for such words, my friend, you can put your party card on the table. I, a Muscovite living near Ryazan, if I meet any reptile in a "cat's hat", I will calculate it immediately and without any legal proceedings. am
                    1. +1
                      13 June 2020 20: 00
                      I mean the same! Sinners of Moscow 600 years ago went to Ryazan with the sentence “we will throw them with their caps”. Well, they threw them Ryazan! Since then it has not been accepted to put cats on hats and on boots! Although .... if mittens?
                      laughing
                      1. +1
                        13 June 2020 20: 09
                        Although .... if mittens?

                        Again for your own! Well, what to do with you, Sinister Ural !? laughing
                      2. +1
                        13 June 2020 21: 00
                        I sit high, I look far, I’ll go beat, I’ll do my legs !!!! lol
                        With sincere respect, if that is what I am calling for the lack of tact! feel
                  3. +2
                    13 June 2020 20: 05
                    Vlad! Stop it, huh?! You are a friend, you yourself know who! I deeply respect you !!!!
                    1. +2
                      13 June 2020 20: 53
                      Break stereotypes !!! laughing
                      Guys no offense! I didn’t think that you would attack me for a couple !!! Assumed that one by one! laughing And there, I hoped I could get out !!! Do not fail!
                      So that! Get your hands off cats, both Moscow and Ryazan!
                      "Rabbit is not only valuable fur, but ...." !!! Although ... oh, I feel Anton and VikNik will beat me today, two stories:
                      The story is real from my family. My father turned his head to my mother with various projections! One of which is the coat of their dog skin! After the wedding, my mother, set a categorical condition in the implementation of plans! There is nothing to do, the father took a gun from a neighbor and went to get a "fur coat". According to him (it happened in the village of Atig), he saw a flock of stray dogs at a local garbage dump, took aim, closed his eyes and shot! The dogs fled. The next day, the chairman of the village council came to work for dinner and indignantly says that his lap-dog caught a pellet in his paw! Fortunately, my wife noticed in the morning! Father then swore not to shoot animals. So the project with a "fur coat" was never realized!
                      The second story is less dramatic. My wife’s grandfather kept sheep, so he decided to experiment with cat hair. I wanted to make cat-made mittens !!! In the evening my wife and I left on a woodpile and sat a furry - striped one! In the morning we arrive at the fence with only eyes, a mustache and a tail! By the way, the experiment failed. The cat wool thread did not go. The wife and daughter brought the cat into the divine form for another hour, so as not to scare the neighbors! The cat, by the way, did not melt the next day, noted his grandfather's slippers! And so for exactly a week this action was repeated with a bang! A week later, his grandfather baptized Vaska in Lysika and they again healed soul-to-soul!
                      My regards!
                      1. +3
                        13 June 2020 21: 17
                        When our cat nailed to us from the garbage, his thick wool completely fell into natural felt. The poor thing was itchy, but he really could not scratch himself. In short, a familiar veterinarian came to us, injected a cat with sleeping pills, put it on a workbench in the garden and, using scissors and a machine, removed this natural carapace from him. Only in addition to his whiskers, eyes and tail did he also have high fur boots. When the tramp recovered, he was combed and gnawed from all sides, and he sang songs with delight. It’s a pity that we didn’t think of taking a picture of him in this form. smile
                        Vlad, no complaints. drinks
                      2. +2
                        13 June 2020 21: 29
                        My wife once cut her under anesthesia! I walked the bun, became a "worm." Then the daughter read out that anesthesia has a bad effect on health. So now we are suffering with combing! Three hands, Ohr for the whole apartment !!! after offense! But all the same, we need long wool up to 10-12 centimeters! When you wash you have nothing to look at !!!
                        Sincerely, Vlad!
                      3. +3
                        13 June 2020 21: 35
                        ... now we are suffering with combing! Three hands, Ohr for the whole apartment !!! after offense!

                        Everything is exactly the same with us. smile
            2. +3
              13 June 2020 21: 28
              Quote: ee2100
              Maybe you’ll answer how the squad of Prince Alexander fought in mid-April on the ice of Lake Peipsi in felt boots or something similar.

              Elementary, Alexander! We pull on boots, an armchair, chain mail, bracers, greaves, a helmet with a half mask, sit on a horse (we’re a squad, not a staff!), We put boots on a stirrup ... And voila! laughing And the horse has horseshoes ... She, in the horseshoes, as a first approximation, do not care - ice, there, dirt, or asphalt.
              In addition, the Elder Livonian Rhymed Chronicle says that those killed, from both sides, "fell on the grass." So whether everything happened on the ice or not is a moot point.
              1. +2
                13 June 2020 21: 42
                And I mean it. If you read the plot of the chronicle "with passion", then many questions arise to which there are no answers in your right mind. I listed them to Shpakovsky, but not all of them. If I haven't erased them a little later, I'll repeat them
              2. +2
                13 June 2020 21: 48
                Found. Not all questions were voiced.
                What the chronicle describes. Prince Alexander comes under the walls of Dorpat and besieges him. Part of the army is sent to plunder the lands surrounding the city. Domash, the mayor's brother, dies in a skirmish with knights going to the aid of the besieged fortress. Alexander and his army were frightened and flee. How do they run? Running in a hurry leaving the camp? Or are they retreating in an organized manner? And one more question. Why are they running towards Lake Peipsi. From the site of the alleged battle to Dorpat in a straight line about 100 km. More on the way. It would be more logical to run towards Izborsk. The distance is the same. But you will meet the enemy behind the fortress walls. Do knights chase fleeing ones? Let's say yes. This can be a maximum of 5-7 km if you have not caught up. After that, the persecutors return to the fortress, and the retreating ones can rest calmly, comprehend what is happening, transform, etc. And if they don't persecute? It turns out that fear seized Alexander and his army and they fled for 4–5 days and only on the ice of the lake come to their senses. Will the knights chase the retreating troops for 4-5 days? No. They fulfilled their task. The fortress was released, the enemy retreated. If the enemy wants to continue fighting, then you are welcome - we are in the fortress. Let's say the knights are chasing the army of Alexander. How do they know where fear will release Alexander and he will stop. Maybe he will run to Novgorod. And this is a different preparation and logistics. As we know, the case took place on April 5 (12). Hydrologists who have studied this issue say with a 50% probability that there could be ice suitable for finding on it. Let's say fit. Let's say the battle took place on the SPRING ice. Spring ice is a pure ice rink. And yet, I would like to know in what shoes one and the other side fought. If you answer all these questions following elementary logic, common sense and personal experience, then something is not real. To put it mildly. The battle took place in the area of ​​modern Tartu. Why the chronicler transferred him to the Peipsi (Warm) Lake area is a question for him. As they say, "He is an artist, he sees so."
                1. +2
                  13 June 2020 22: 38
                  I corrected your karma!
                  Spring ice, nostril, loose and not slippery! By your logic, you need to think! Although I am more inclined to believe that the chronicler is not an eyewitness, he heard that he heard and wrote down !!!
                  1. +2
                    13 June 2020 22: 58
                    Karma does not need to be corrected. She is in the right place.
                    And spring ice is different. Spongy when already "soon, soon" On such ice in their right mind and sober, few people will stick their heads, and even more so on horses.
                    The chronicler 1000% is not an eyewitness, but he is not. I don't remember where I read that the first 30 "notebooks" of the Novgorod chronicle were written by one person. And I think they are very talented.
                    The chronicler knew perfectly well what ice is in April. But why did he describe the battle in the Dorpat area like that? This is a very interesting question. There is little real in this story. My guess was that he wanted the ancestors, incl. and we understood his attitude towards Prince Alexander.
          2. The comment was deleted.
  12. +1
    13 June 2020 10: 05
    Good afternoon.
    Since "to be continued", I hope it will be about the clothes of our ancestors.
    The article transferred to oblivion the topic of shoes, a light mention of scandals and that's it. And since the author tried to tell about the clothes of practically all "civilized" Europe, the topic of footwear is very important.
  13. +3
    13 June 2020 10: 10
    Rabbits are very common in southern Europe. Plus they periodically die in huge quantities. it is unlikely that people would pass by free meat and skins. Maybe they learned to sew them. Pants, maybe they piled up a bear, but the back was separately skinned, maybe someone got into these pants as a bear. Yes, and the Chukchi. when Europeans met them, they did not run with bare priests for ostriches, in the ice of Antarctica, they ran in trousers. For underwear, Fish Skin was used. I’m not at all joking. The skin, I know about carp, was made, processed and used for delicate products. Used the skin of sharks, Used the skin of dolphins. All resources were used, all that could be obtained. To date, the most expensive skin, skin with a member of the Blue Whale.
  14. +1
    13 June 2020 11: 10
    Yes, pants is the cornerstone of historyThe Romans captured everything that could be captured without pants, and when it began to get colder, during the time of the Great Migration of Peoples, they were forbidden to wear their pants, but the pants still came to Rome - on barbarians.
  15. +7
    13 June 2020 14: 08
    Oh, Vyacheslav Olegovich, finally material without politics! good I read it with interest and pleasure, many thanks. hi
    I always believed that the pants were invented in connection with the start of the operation of the riding horse, that is, most likely their inventors were still residents of the steppes, and not forests.
    Himself, at one time, about thirty years ago, even earlier, I tried to wear a kind of kilt instead of pants for a couple of days, so, for the sake of experiment, in the summer. I will say this - funny feelings.
    I did the following. A long piece of fabric stretched across one shoulder between the legs to the other, again between the legs and wrapped around the waist. It turned out something like a skirt to the knees and everything is closed from below. The design, in principle, is convenient, comfortable, but the problem of needing to go down and the ankles are not protected from grass there, different nettles, small branches, etc. If you wear high boots or stockings - generally no problem. He concluded that one can live like that, nothing fatal, but pants are still more comfortable. smile
    1. +3
      13 June 2020 15: 04
      Quote: Trilobite Master
      pants are still more comfortable.

      And why not?
      Pants are the subject of evolutionary development! laughing
      But jeans are the subject of pants development !!!! laughing
      1. +2
        13 June 2020 16: 09
        Accepted. I quote:
        - * People in jeans are building this world, people in suits are destroying it. *
        This is anonymous with a * - * sign. laughing
        1. +2
          13 June 2020 16: 28
          This is anonymous with a * - * sign.

          You're too picky. In different regions of the Union, these pants were called differently. "Jimsi", "Chukhasy" - for example. We need to understand the terminology. laughing
          1. +4
            13 June 2020 17: 49
            Chukhas, Chukhas! Ha! Jeans! Not pants. Not trousers. A JEANS! ¡!!
          2. +4
            13 June 2020 17: 53
            People who can build / create something) / those in jeans!
            Are they trying to do something in which they? Ah, friend? Am I wrong ???
            1. +4
              13 June 2020 18: 33
              The question is what to do, to whom, or for what? And then after all the people are different, and wears different pants.
      2. +4
        13 June 2020 16: 36
        "And there is a big Rush in the east,
        There life is wonderful and good,
        They build something there, forge something there,
        And they give jeans for free on the farm! "
        1. +5
          13 June 2020 17: 57
          "I'll leave Montana, buy a steamer,
          I will go to Russia to the Far East.
          Her eeeee! Evribadi! ... " fellow
          1. +5
            13 June 2020 18: 06
            Friend Patience! I’m going to the store! I am sinful !!! Oya! Sinful!
          2. +3
            13 June 2020 18: 15
            Oh Bella Chao, Bella Chao, Chao, Chao!
            Young people will understand, no?
            1. +1
              13 June 2020 18: 17
              The Ciao thing is ours all once!
            2. +2
              13 June 2020 18: 52
              "Partisan, Moldavian,
              We are assembling a detachment "(C)
              By anology.
              And in general, Uncle Kostya, who did you call "youth" ???
  16. +6
    13 June 2020 16: 41
    Prehistoric pants were unearthed by archaeologists Ulrike Beck and Mayke Wagner of the German Archaeological Institute in Berlin, opening a grave in western China in the Tarim Basin (Yanghai graveyard in China's Tarim Basin). Pants were worn on a dead nomad.

    Scientists have identified the burial age at 3300 years.
    1. +6
      13 June 2020 16: 51
      Quote: bubalik
      Scientists have identified the burial age at 3300 years.

      Nothing is very bad.
      1. +4
        13 June 2020 17: 16
        good Volodya, great! It's clear about the ports! And about the * cowards * family *, what do you have to say ????? tongue tongue
        1. +6
          13 June 2020 17: 20
          Quote: Phil77
          And about cowards * family *, what do you have to say ?????

          What to talk about them? Trusels like a coward. Universal. wink
    2. +4
      13 June 2020 17: 18
      Seryog! God forbid! That's what to wear !!!!!
      1. +5
        13 June 2020 17: 26
        ,,, but better than modern skinny jeans negative
        1. +4
          13 June 2020 18: 03
          skinny jeans

          Well, this is for those who are not familiar with such a thing as a toilet. smile

          Hello, Sergey! drinks
    3. +5
      13 June 2020 17: 58
      So I say - decent people already wore the Chukhas! good
      1. +3
        13 June 2020 18: 20
        Ggrryyyy !!!!!! Only jeans liiii !!! !!!
        1. +4
          13 June 2020 20: 22
          Glad to welcome everyone! hi
          It’s not the pants that color the person ... but he does them (fakes don’t count, Freud’s compliment). lol
          I am sure that if we properly examine the archaeological finds from the battlefield, it can be guaranteed to establish which side was defeated, discarding all insinuations and conjectures. lol
    4. 0
      13 June 2020 21: 29
      Of the twelve Tarim mummies dating from the 18th-13th centuries BC and undergoing genetic examination, eleven belong to carriers of the Black Sea subclade of haplogroup R1a, one is untyped.

      The Black Sea arias, which came east to the territory of today's Northern China, used trousers to adapt to the Central Asian continental climate, and not for riding, as they used chariots.
  17. -5
    14 June 2020 07: 11
    Yeah interesting. And most importantly - in detail.
  18. Cat
    0
    14 June 2020 13: 01
    Moreover, women participated in battles, being in the ranks with men. Their task was primarily to scare the enemy with loud screams.

    laughing laughing lol
    1. Cat
      0
      14 June 2020 13: 09
      Moreover, women participated in battles, being in the ranks with men. Their task was primarily to scare the enemy with loud screams.

      The fighting cats performed the same function:
  19. 0
    14 June 2020 14: 36
    Quote: fuxila
    In Russia, before coming of age they wore shirts (until the tip of the genital organ began to stick out from under the hem). After the onset of such an important event, the Russian picked up a club and went for pants to Germany.

    The Russians didn’t need a club, they crushed German skulls with that very tip sticking out from under the hem, and only then they took off their pants from the Aryan blind men. laughing

    The joke, although old, but a little bit about the club. 4 musketeers and our 3 heroes are sitting in a tavern. Ilya Muromets quarreled with D Artagnan. D Artagnan: Aramis, give my sword, bring a piece of chalk, draw a cross on Ilya’s heart. I'll stab him with my sword there. Ilya Muromets: Well, Alyosha sprinkle this clown with flour and give me my club.
  20. 0
    14 June 2020 19: 36
    Good illustrations. Short. Clear
  21. 0
    16 June 2020 15: 52
    The word Trousers is mutually derived from the Dutch at the time of Peter the Great, and is not Russian.

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