Military Review

Reflecting a Massive UAV Attack: Tactical Issues from the Experience of Syria and Libya

77

The experience of modern wars in Syria and Libya shows that unmanned aerial vehicles play an increasingly active role not only in reconnaissance, but in striking at enemy positions. Especially actively uses drones Turkey. UAV attacks have already become her "trick".


Was there a "swarm"?


Foreign experts have long paid attention to the active use of drones by the Turkish armed forces. Thus, Charles Lister, program manager for the study of extremism and counterterrorism at the Institute of the Middle East of the USA, describing the Syrian campaign of Turkey, noted that she fights mainly with the help of UAVs, supporting their actions with artillery fire.

In Idlib, Turkey used two types of unmanned aerial vehicles: operational-tactical Bayraktar TB2 and multi-purpose TAI Anka. The new tactic was called the "swarm of drones" and allowed to cause serious damage to the Syrian army. At first, the Syrian ground forces almost daily suffered heavy losses from the actions of Turkish UAVs.

However, the latter circumstance was caused more likely by the low level of organization of the SAA military air defense. And, strictly speaking, can one call a “swarm” of simultaneously flying 5-6 drones? Therefore, some experts generally doubt that we can talk about some kind of "swarm" of drones. “Bayraktars” are not so cheap in production to be thrown into the attack with a swarm of them. The swarm is not a swarm, but the same 5-6 shock UAVs today still bring a certain effect on the theater of operations.

New targets and easy targets


Subsequently, the use of Turkish-made UAVs again showed high efficiency during the fighting in Libya, where the Turkish-supported forces of the Government of National Accord Faiz Saraj fight the Libyan National Army of Marshal Khalifa Haftar.


Destruction of an LNA Haftar pickup by a Turkish UAV

But here, unlike Syria, the troops of Khalifa Haftar were ready for drone attacks. This also explains the drift of the targets of the UAV attacks: if the Bayraktars attacked in Syria tanks, armored vehicles or vehicles of the Syrian ground forces, as well as fortifications, in Libya, Turkish drones attacked, in addition to their usual targets, tracking stations and electronic warfare systems (EW) of Russian production, which are in service with the Haftar army.

Particularly effective in countering drone attacks were demonstrated by Russian-made Pantsir-C1 air defense systems, which are in service with the Haftar army. They destroyed a large number of Turkish drones, which made it possible to reorient the UAV attacks on the Pantsir-C1 air defense system itself, which the Libyan military could withdraw in a single version literally in the middle of the desert, turning them into real targets.

For example, during the capture of Al-Vatiya airbase, which played an important role in the communication of the Haftar’s LNA, by the faithful PNS, one of the “Shells” was destroyed, which Tripoli representatives triumphantly declared.

Also, a video appeared on the network of the alleged destruction of the Krasukha electronic warfare complex by a Turkish drone. However, the staff make very seriously doubt the veracity of Turkish sources. See for yourself:


In addition to the "Shell-C1", Buk-M2E air defense systems demonstrated good effectiveness in the fight against Turkish drones. Only in the battles in the province of Idlib, they shot down dozens of Turkish drones. Such a failure even forced Recep Erdogan to seek help from NATO in conducting intelligence on the Russian air base Khmeimim, and this says a lot.

But the benefits of a drone attack are obvious. And they are based on the effect of surprise. For example, two military vehicles follow without proper air defense cover, and here it is - an air strike.

If large columns, especially military facilities from drones, are quite easy to close using air defense systems and EW capabilities, then just with small groups of military, small roadblocks, everything is bad. How to protect them from drone attacks is a pressing issue that needs to be addressed.

What tactics are practiced in the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation


So far, the tactics of countering reconnaissance drones have been tested in the Russian army. For this, special groups were created consisting of air defense, electronic warfare and sniper pairs from Igla MANPADS. MANPADS calculations were located at a distance from the leading edge to strike UAVs before they completed their mission. If MANPADS could not destroy UAVs, ZSU "Shilka" entered into business. Such tactics have been tested in exercises in the Eastern Military District.


Other methods are effective against the so-called “swarm”, namely, radio-electronic suppression, including a “noise screen”. The electronic warfare system "Krasuha" jamming UAV control signals within a radius of 300 km. Then the “Shell” comes into action, but it works on drones not with expensive missiles, but from a twin 30-mm gun, if the target's height allows it.

Thus, the effective interaction of modern electronic warfare systems and air defense systems is the main basis of tactics that can neutralize even a massive attack of enemy drones.
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  1. certero
    certero 31 May 2020 13: 27 New
    +4
    Drones should not fly anywhere against an army like the Russian one. Electronic warfare equipment must completely drown out the communications allowing them to be controlled
    1. antivirus
      antivirus 31 May 2020 13: 39 New
      +1
      airdromes can also be completely disabled - for a signal, do not lift anything into the air and give up
    2. Alekseev
      Alekseev 31 May 2020 17: 10 New
      +6
      Quote: certero
      drones shouldn't fly anywhere

      Should not, but for this it is necessary to take measures, as well as against attack aircraft and combat helicopters and other weapons systems.
      How do drones differ from an attack aircraft, for example. In my personal opinion, the main difference is stealth. The sizes are smaller, the use of radio-imperceptible materials, low noise.
      But drones, especially drone drones, are by no means "nympusoria". They are detected by radio and optical means.
      Timely detection is probably the main thing. UAVs require control, i.e. sensitive to electronic warfare. They are slow-moving and vulnerable to air defense and MANPADS. Well, they also require air bases, which need to be hit, and not just rely on anti-aircraft weapons.
      So, nothing really new. Some Turks' success in Idlib was initially only because the SAA’s military air defense was previously not in demand and somewhat decomposed. It was worthwhile to carry out the relevant events, the result of which was a small dronopad and it became clear that this was not a child prodigy and that drones could not make a break in the fight against an enemy well protected from air attacks, although, under certain circumstances, they were quite effective.
      1. Saxahorse
        Saxahorse 2 June 2020 00: 39 New
        0
        Quote: Alekseev
        Timely detection is probably the main thing. UAVs require control, i.e. sensitive to electronic warfare.

        Directional satellite dish is difficult to push from below. Is that the same EW satellite to hang and jam them from above.
      2. georgiigennadievitch
        georgiigennadievitch 20 June 2020 18: 28 New
        0
        The strengths of Drones are relatively low compared to ballistic and cruise missiles, aircraft. This allows you to attack immediately with a large number and from different directions. The weak side is communication channels. If they are chopped off or intercepted, then drones are useless. So you need to jam them, burn electronics, etc., and shoot down with standard weapons. But for this, motorized rifle, tank, artillery, and other units must be adequately equipped with the necessary equipment, armed and prepared for such a fight, be in the air defense communication system in order to be warned in time about approaching drones and not being allowed to take themselves by surprise. Or to have reliable air cover from air defense units. How to better and more optimally build defense from drones must be solved now, having conducted experimental comparative exercises in various versions.
  2. Break through
    Break through 31 May 2020 13: 39 New
    -15
    A good role in air defense is played by good operators. And electronic warfare systems. And with this, the Syrians have problems with the Libyans. But still they fellows fell 69 Turkish shock drones.
    1. Tiksi-3
      Tiksi-3 31 May 2020 13: 53 New
      +5
      Quote: Break through
      But still they fellows fell 69 Turkish shock drones.

      where did such data come from? ... at least the Turks were asked how much they had ??
      1. donavi49
        donavi49 31 May 2020 14: 07 New
        11
        Well, here's how - if a photo-video of the destruction of the shell or some other equipment appears. That is the Qatari scenery. Computer game. Installation. Old videos.

        If an LNA twitter statement appears, our heroic soldiers destroyed 20 Turkish UAVs and 150 Erdogan mercenaries today. That is automatically true fact!
      2. Break through
        Break through 31 May 2020 14: 28 New
        -9
        Turks are not recognized. But dozens of shot down Turkish drones are a fact. Internet to help. Photos and videos are.
        1. Tiksi-3
          Tiksi-3 31 May 2020 14: 31 New
          +4
          Quote: Break through
          Turks are not recognized

          kapets, the Internet will help you to find the whole shock drone fleet in Turkey and oh horror ..... the numbers don't beat .....
          1. Break through
            Break through 31 May 2020 14: 32 New
            -13
            About 70 shot down in Syria and Libya. Google Everything is.
            1. Tiksi-3
              Tiksi-3 31 May 2020 15: 29 New
              +4
              Quote: Break through
              About 70 shot down in Syria and Libya

              from 13.39 to 14.32 (this is the time of your posts) someone managed to land another one)))
              laughing wassat belay lol love you are our "Vitalka the all-knowing", do you really believe in what you post ???? or is it trolling like that? wink
              1. Kronos
                Kronos 31 May 2020 16: 42 New
                +2
                Yes, he cheers patriot
                1. Break through
                  Break through 31 May 2020 17: 25 New
                  -8
                  There are patriots, there are traitors. I am the first. You are the second. I remember you. You screamed that Russian weapons are garbage and all that. Although your country has a bottom for arms sales, unlike the Russian Federation.
                  1. Kronos
                    Kronos 31 May 2020 17: 28 New
                    -1
                    I’ve said something else, do not misinterpret - that you don’t need to talk about world analogues that have not been tested in real battles against enemies. Well, about the fact that in Libya they destroyed shells that you denied
                    1. NEOZ
                      NEOZ 1 June 2020 14: 56 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Kronos
                      I don’t need to talk about world analogues that have not been tested in real battles against enemies.

                      Yes, 90% of modern weapons did not pass the test in real battles !!!! so what???
                      1. Kronos
                        Kronos 1 June 2020 14: 58 New
                        0
                        Correctly, this applies to those 90%
                2. Boris ⁣ Shaver
                  Boris ⁣ Shaver 1 June 2020 01: 35 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Kronos
                  Yes, he cheers patriot

                  So you are also a cheer patriot. Only Turkish. You’ve plotted so much nonsense of Proturk’s here with your colleagues during the five-year period
                  1. Kronos
                    Kronos 1 June 2020 14: 57 New
                    -1
                    I did not guess I am not a supporter of the Turks there anti-communism. I try to just be objective
                    1. Boris ⁣ Shaver
                      Boris ⁣ Shaver 1 June 2020 19: 19 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Kronos
                      Did not guess

                      Here you don’t need to guess, you yourself have perfectly defined yourself by your posts for a long time.
            2. Kronos
              Kronos 31 May 2020 16: 37 New
              +3
              Yeah, they shot down more than the Turks have
    2. donavi49
      donavi49 31 May 2020 14: 09 New
      +3
      By the way, here is a video of the battles on the outskirts of Tripoli, I posted it yesterday, but you can also repeat it in the profile topic. The LNA is defending its position, the PNS (and most likely the Turks judging by the single accurate artillery arrivals) are being thrown.
      1. Nikanet
        Nikanet 31 May 2020 22: 11 New
        -1
        301 regiment of PNS works! Cool guys.
    3. 210ox
      210ox 31 May 2020 14: 22 New
      +3
      There are probably fewer in the entire Turkish army ..
    4. Roman1970_1
      Roman1970_1 31 May 2020 14: 37 New
      -1
      Yes, they only have so much.
    5. venik
      venik 31 May 2020 14: 38 New
      +5
      Quote: Break through
      But still they fellows fell 69 Turkish shock drones.

      =======
      Well, this figure seems too optimistic ..... In fact, the confirmed (photo and video recording) - much less than only 17 of which 15 - "Bairaktar" and 2 - "Anka", but this is not a little, especially, which is obvious NOT ALL cases are recorded in the photo and video ..... (https://lostarmour.info/aflosses/item.php?id=23668)
      Here - in another problem: HOW and WHAT can you EFFECTIVELY fight against small-sized UAVs (which fighters can carry "under the arm")? Such an infection flies at an altitude of several kilometers and conducts reconnaissance (directing artillery) and WHAT to do with it? "Kalash" - not to get it, MZA - too! It's a pity for a rocket - it's too expensive, and an ordinary MANPADS may not capture an insignificant thermal signature!
      Now it seems that special small-sized missiles for fighting drones are being developed for "Pantsir" (4 pieces instead of one standard) ..... (https://rg.ru/2020/01/29/kompleks-pvo-pancir-dorabotali-dlia-borby-s-mini-bespilotnikami.html; https://tass.ru/interviews/7623815).
      Still with "Derivation-Air Defense" decided! Therefore, it seems that THIS system against drones is exactly what the doctor ordered !!!
      1. meandr51
        meandr51 31 May 2020 15: 28 New
        +1
        Fighter drone, e / magn gun, laser.
        1. venik
          venik 31 May 2020 18: 42 New
          +3
          Quote: meandr51
          Fighter drone, e / magn gun, laser.

          =======
          They have been working on all these "themes" for a long time ...
          1. An interceptor drone with the Vepr 12 Hammer automatic smoothbore shotgun, which in turn is a remake of the Kalashnikov light machine gun. Ammunition is 10 rounds. In the tests, he still shot down another drone, although it chased for a long time!


          2. Electromagnetic rifle from REX-1 Concern "Kalashnikov" (blocks signals from navigation systems, but alas, it cannot hit an object flying according to a given program!


          3. Combat laser "Peresvet". Alas too expensive and too bulky (for mini-drones)


          4. Microwave gun "Satchel". The same problem as with "Peresvet" - a superpowerful current source (such as a nuclear reactor) is needed, which is extremely expensive, and the microwave cannon can only be used in a deserted area - otherwise everyone who gets into the beam zone (or its side lobes ) - Khan!


          So, there are developments, but this is all either not exactly what you NEED, or did not leave the stage of experiments ... And an EFFECTIVE remedy for mandrels (including small ones) is needed already "for yesterday"!!! request
          1. Vicontas
            Vicontas 31 May 2020 20: 50 New
            0
            Quote: venik

            4. Microwave gun "Satchel". The same problem as that of "Peresvet" - a super-powerful current source (such as a nuclear reactor) is needed, which is extremely expensive, and the microwave cannon can only be used in a BEZEL

            The "Knapsack" has a 500 megawatt unit for a range of 10 kilometers! You can take a vulgar microwave - its magnetron strikes for one and a half kilometers. In order not to waste energy on the sides, attach a bell-emitter that concentrates radiation (you can from a tin can) and not only drones will not bother you - mosquitoes will not bother you! Power can be taken from a car battery with a 220 V converter or a car generator!
            1. venik
              venik 1 June 2020 08: 10 New
              0
              Quote: Vicontas
              The "Knapsack" has a 500 megawatt unit for a range of 10 kilometers!

              =========
              This is for a 45 decibel antenna with a 60 degree beam solution. For a 50 dB antenna with a beam solution of 15-20 degrees. - slightly more - up to 14 km.
              --------
              Quote: Vicontas
              You can take a vulgar microwave - its magnetron hits for a kilometer and a half. In order not to lose energy on both sides - attach a bell-emitter that concentrates radiation (you can from a can) and not only drones - mosquitoes will not bother you! Power can be taken from a car battery with a 220 V converter. Or a car generator!

              ========
              Dear Vicontas! You didn’t get anything wrong? Today 1 June, not April 1st!
              The power of domestic microwave ovens usually varies in the range from 500 to 2 watts. Those. at 200 000 times LESS! The fact that the magnetron hits at 1.5 km (I don't know WHERE did you get these numbers?) Means absolutely NOTHING! Even if you put a bell - it will simply "cut off" part of the radiation, but will not reflect it in the right direction, and therefore it is needed only for at least some kind of protection! Well, and to create an electromagnetic microwave field in the drone equipment, sufficient in intensity to generate induced currents capable of burning microcircuits and causing a short circuit, you can only thrust it (the drone) into the oven! laughing lol
              PS Once again, congratulations on the past April 1! Thank you for the excellent mood that we provided for the whole day !!! drinks
              PPS Chrisist God I beg - only do not experiment в domestic conditions: Remember, the microwave oven is not only extremely harmful, but also very DANGEROUS for the human body! wink
      2. Ingenegr
        Ingenegr 31 May 2020 15: 49 New
        +3
        In the presence of shells with cheap non-contact fuses - no doubt the 57-mm system will be quite effective. With UAVs, the main problem is their detection and auto tracking. Without this, it is problematic to beat them.
        1. venik
          venik 31 May 2020 18: 56 New
          0
          Quote: Ingenegr
          In the presence of shells with cheap non-contact fuses - no doubt the 57-mm system will be quite effective.

          =========
          good And with the "Derivation-Air Defense" something everyone is pulling and pulling ..... Although it was already promised at this Parade to ride on Red Square (which means, most likely, it will go to the troops, which of course pleases!), But not earlier than 22-23 years (which is already upsetting!).
          ----------
          Quote: Ingenegr
          With UAVs, the main problem is their detection and auto tracking. Without this, it is problematic to beat them.

          =======
          That YES, then - YES! You can’t argue with these ...... Existing small-sized mobile radars detect a small UAV (with an electronic ballast of less than 0,01 square meters), at a distance of a couple of kilometers, and this is very small - at this range it is time to open fire .. .....
      3. Boris ⁣ Shaver
        Boris ⁣ Shaver 1 June 2020 01: 42 New
        0
        Quote: venik
        Such an infection flies at an altitude of several kilometers and is reconnaissance

        It is necessary to jam the control channels and the transmission of information. Least.
      4. NEOZ
        NEOZ 1 June 2020 15: 01 New
        +1
        Quote: venik
        conducts reconnaissance (directs artillery) and WHAT to do with it?

        destroy artillery !!!! )))))))))
    6. mvg
      mvg 31 May 2020 17: 42 New
      +1
      And what is not 100500+? Then the post looks much cooler ... Together with the operators. fellow
    7. Oleg Zorin
      Oleg Zorin 31 May 2020 23: 39 New
      +1
      Suvorov: "Why should you feel sorry for them, bastard, write more!" laughing
  3. knn54
    knn54 31 May 2020 13: 43 New
    +2
    RICH practical experience.
  4. Siberian 66
    Siberian 66 31 May 2020 13: 47 New
    +9
    The concept of a "swarm" is not applicable to 5-6 drones, scattered over tens of kilometers and having different tasks. "Roy" is a few dozen small vehicles with one task under a single control. They can break through air defense by rebuilding, simultaneous attacks from different directions at different heights. Often it is a kamikaze, with a sufficiently small warhead weight, only to damage the antenna fields and radars, thereby creating gaps in a continuous radar field. And they are cheap compared to modern strike and reconnaissance UAVs. MANPADS practically does not see them. The tactics of their use have not yet emerged from scientific laboratories, but NATO really wants to get it. The stage of large drones, which can be felled with "Buks" and "Shells", is passing. (True, we have not yet reached this stage) UAVs are becoming several times smaller, several times cheaper, and they are switching over to artificial intelligence control. We need not to lag behind here, but to think ahead of the curve.
  5. KVU-NSVD
    KVU-NSVD 31 May 2020 13: 56 New
    +9
    . The electronic warfare system "Krasukha" jamming UAV control signals within a radius of 300 km
    Cho that author, in my opinion, grabbed an extra. With such optimistic checkers, there are a dozen or so other Krasukh who can block the entire western border of the Russian Federation, and about five will be enough for all of Syria, although the reality is a little more modest
    1. Free wind
      Free wind 31 May 2020 14: 34 New
      +4
      The author did not write secret information, the krasuk seized control of the Dragon. and docked it with the ISS. Now Americans in orbit, wiping their tears with diapers, are writing dismissal reports. But the fact that the Turks smelled the victories is a fact. When the military realized what kind of fruit Erdogan was, and tried to break its horns, as AtaTurk bequeathed. and failed, many squealed what a cool erdik. Only soon he will get rid of tomatoes and will not, but some will remain without tomatoes.
      1. KVU-NSVD
        KVU-NSVD 31 May 2020 14: 41 New
        0
        But I think that Erdogan in Libya still lacks acidic mandula.
        1. NEOZ
          NEOZ 1 June 2020 15: 04 New
          0
          Quote: KVU-NSVD
          But I think that Erdogan in Libya still lacks acidic mandula.

          from whom?
          Based on what such a conclusion?
          ps
          Well, you don’t even know the goals of Turkey in Libya!
          1. KVU-NSVD
            KVU-NSVD 1 June 2020 15: 31 New
            +1
            Quote: NEOZ
            Well, you don’t even know the goals of Turkey in Libya!

            Eastern Mediterranean gas and its transportation routes to Europe, maintaining a controlled regime in Libya, spreading influence as a regional neo-Ottoman power, controlling the Libyan corridor of refugee flows to Europe and through this acquiring additional instruments in European affairs, disposing of the most rabid people from Idlib. You can argue or supplement.
            1. NEOZ
              NEOZ 1 June 2020 15: 37 New
              0
              Quote: KVU-NSVD
              You can argue or supplement.

              I would also add control of oil fields and its delivery routes to Turkey.
              otherwise I completely agree with you.
              accordingly, all of the above goals are easily achieved without large-scale Turkish intervention !!!!! accordingly, only Turkish proxies will snatch in Libya!
              I believe that the costs of Turkey will be incomparably less than the profit from the Libyan company ...
              You can argue and / or supplement.
            2. KVU-NSVD
              KVU-NSVD 1 June 2020 15: 48 New
              +2
              My grounds for the inevitability of future mandulins to Zrdogan are simple. There are more people interested in Haftar, and in principle only Turks for Saraj. Consequently, the flow of money, resources and mercenaries at Haftar will be more recent and strategically the Turks there will be exhausted faster. Not a senka hat, or a turban ..
  6. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 31 May 2020 13: 56 New
    12
    What a streamlined article. It seems that the UAV is well done, but it seems that the air defense is not a miss .... All without even approximate numbers
    At the end - the paragraph, how we will defeat all ...
    Well, for watered information in primary and secondary school is suitable. And for adults, pour from empty to empty ... Sorry, this is not the same level.
    1. Doctor
      Doctor 31 May 2020 14: 08 New
      10
      What a streamlined article. It seems that the UAV is well done, but it seems that the air defense is not a miss .... All without even approximate figures.
      At the end - the paragraph, how we will defeat all ...

      This is because the main thing is missing.
      The role of UAVs is growing, and we are falling behind.
      1. NEOZ
        NEOZ 1 June 2020 15: 04 New
        -1
        Quote: Arzt
        The role of UAVs is growing, and we are falling behind.

        What is the increasing role?
        1. Doctor
          Doctor 1 June 2020 15: 10 New
          +1
          What is the increasing role?

          In their combat capabilities.
          Compare what they can now and remember what happened 30 years ago.
          We didn’t hear such words.
          1. NEOZ
            NEOZ 1 June 2020 15: 30 New
            -3
            Quote: Arzt
            Compare what they can now and remember what happened 30 years ago.

            What are the goals of the UAV? - reconnaissance and point strikes, right?
            Well, 30 years ago, artillery and the Air Force did this, nothing has changed.
            ps
            in principle, our VKS with ATS proved it.
            PPP
            UAV is not an end in itself, but the path (one of) to achieve the goal !!!!
  7. sen
    sen 31 May 2020 14: 22 New
    +3
    You can try against the "swarm" of attack UAVs "swarm" of UAV fighters.
    1. Boris ⁣ Shaver
      Boris ⁣ Shaver 1 June 2020 01: 46 New
      0
      Quote: sen
      You can try against the "swarm" of attack UAVs "swarm" of UAV fighters

      It is unlikely that the concept is viable. A small drone drone is the most difficult to detect. And for another small UAV it is even more difficult to do than, say, a large ground antenna.
      1. sen
        sen 1 June 2020 03: 43 New
        +1
        And for another small UAV it is even more difficult to do than, say, a large ground antenna.

        This is the essence. The radar determines the coordinates and speeds of strangers and their UAVs, the computer calculates and gives information to each of its UAVs through its secure channel.
        1. Boris ⁣ Shaver
          Boris ⁣ Shaver 1 June 2020 04: 31 New
          0
          Quote: sen
          The radar determines the coordinates and speeds of strangers and their UAVs, the computer makes calculations and provides information to each UAV through its secure channel

          There are also difficulties.
          1) You need to have a lot of such UAVs in order to defend yourself with them. After all, for an attack it is enough to collect a "swarm" in one place, but for defense you will have to spread them evenly along the entire "front". If the fighters have a significant range and can cover a fairly large sector from one airfield, then they will not give a ride from the UAV.
          2) We need to have time to deploy our UAVs, lift them into the air and give target designation. At what distance will the surveillance device detect the enemy "swarm"? Do not forget that we are talking about small UAVs. Let 5 - 10 km. Let the boundary of their possible use for the purpose of the "visit" be 2-3 km. The speed seems to be real at 100-150 km / h. So it turns out that it is necessary to have time to raise and direct your UAVs in less than 1-3 minutes, because it is at this time that "guests" are expected from the moment they are discovered. It turns out that the "fighter" drones must always stand ready for instant launch. And what about the march?
          3) An attacking drone can theoretically go to the "work" area without communication with the operator, in automatic mode. Also, in automatic mode, it can detect the radar and work on it. This is not an impossible engineering task. This means that at the moment of an attack, the enemy himself can use electronic warfare equipment to jam any communication channels in the attacked area, which will make it difficult or completely impossible for the "large antenna" of his swarm of fighter drones to target the enemy.

          In general, many problems can be thought out - it’s not difficult. Solving them is already more difficult. So far, the same guided shells and large-caliber anti-aircraft guns look more interesting. But in general, I believe that defense should be multi-level and include completely different means.
  8. smaug78
    smaug78 31 May 2020 14: 24 New
    +2
    Again Polonsky raves ..
  9. fn34440
    fn34440 31 May 2020 14: 27 New
    -5
    And what prevents the same "Needles" from stuffing small fragments with Tavras or buckshot? Are wild, mountain janissaries cooler than the Soviet-Russian military engineering school? Or was there no command?
  10. Roman1970_1
    Roman1970_1 31 May 2020 14: 36 New
    +4
    Then the “Shell” comes into action, but it works on drones not with expensive missiles, but from a twin 30-mm gun, if the target's height allows it.

    And if it does not allow?
    Does the shell turn into a target?
    1. Boris ⁣ Shaver
      Boris ⁣ Shaver 1 June 2020 01: 47 New
      -1
      So there are rockets
  11. Eug
    Eug 31 May 2020 15: 11 New
    +1
    "Friend" and "partner" Erdogan turned to NATO for help in intelligence of the Russian air base ... can someone convince me that "friend" and "partner"? Regarding the topic - several detonations of relatively inexpensive electromagnetic bombs (generating EMP) at the moments of turning off their own equipment. I think this can be organized within the area of ​​application of the "swarm". Ideally, it would not just suppress control channels, but destroy control points together with the operators
  12. rocket757
    rocket757 31 May 2020 16: 08 New
    0
    Obviously, the issue of airspace control is relevant today for any conflict.
    Control + light fighter aircraft, air defense ... and drones stop flying over your territory.
    It is not difficult, but it does not require small expenses.
  13. huntsman650
    huntsman650 31 May 2020 16: 58 New
    0
    Preemptive strikes at control centers, bases and plants using nuclear weapons !!! and point !!!
  14. Denimax
    Denimax 31 May 2020 18: 43 New
    0
    So there are interceptor drones with shotguns. Why not use?
  15. bk0010
    bk0010 31 May 2020 18: 58 New
    +3
    What makes drones better than airplanes and helicopters (besides the lack of a pilot)? Low price and relatively small size. The low price allows them to be used risky and in large quantities, and their small size dramatically reduces the effectiveness of MZA, forcing them to spend expensive and scarce anti-aircraft missiles on drones. What to do? To revive large-caliber anti-aircraft artillery, which could cheaply hit drones with a powerful shock wave and a wide fragmentation field. It is necessary to make an air defense machine with an analogue of KS-19 or lightweight KS-30, a supply of shells for hitting a dozen drones, a cheap radar for guidance (an optical channel is required), RTR means for early detection of the drone, as well as communication equipment and inclusion in the air defense control system of the area . The advantage of such a machine will be the ability to quickly and inexpensively land all drones in the radius of destruction (about 20 km). The disadvantage is uselessness for other tasks. Well, of course, she can shoot direct fire at ground targets or tanks, but this is a bad option for using anti-aircraft guns.
    1. chingachguc
      chingachguc 6 June 2020 21: 36 New
      0
      drones are controlled by radio. Mute the radio channel with a directional jammer - he himself will hit the ground. Better yet, take control and set the master himself
  16. V.I.P.
    V.I.P. 31 May 2020 21: 02 New
    +1
    Turkish shock drones are armed with ATGMs and two types of laser-guided bombs. ATGM hits 8 km. Bombs at high altitude, the same 8 km range. If lower, then the range is less. What are MANPADS, Shilka, Tunguska, rifles and drones with a net, armor cannons — these means at this range do not work!
    Maybe Thor or Shell rockets will be shot down by a Turkish drone, but nothing will be hit by ATGMs and bombs)))
    1. dgonni
      dgonni 31 May 2020 23: 23 New
      +1
      I agree! But a bomb or a petr can be shot down by an airlikon with a programmable shell. Which, unfortunately, is not foreseen in Derivation. Therefore, the most effective at the moment is the same Tor in the latest versions. The shell seems to still suffer from childhood illnesses of the electronic component.
    2. Boris ⁣ Shaver
      Boris ⁣ Shaver 1 June 2020 01: 51 New
      +1
      Quote: V.I.P.
      ATGM and bombs will not bring down anything

      Stupidity. Together with the drone to the point of trying. The range of these funds allows.
      1. V.I.P.
        V.I.P. 1 June 2020 17: 35 New
        -2
        Everything that I listed does not work at a distance of 8 km)))). The guns are only 3 km away from an air target, but they will not fall into an ATGM or bomb, never! laughing
  17. 3danimal
    3danimal 31 May 2020 23: 40 New
    +1
    The carapace of "working" about drogues with guns can be very bad. Even in several programs (such as Military Acceptance), they were unable to hit a small-sized target flying directly and at an unchanged height from cannons. Missiles are another matter, but their stock is limited.
  18. meandr51
    meandr51 31 May 2020 23: 43 New
    0
    Fresh idea: against a swarm of drones, a special projectile or a disposable drone that creates a cloud of thin metal or polymer threads. Propellers easily get entangled in them.
  19. Prahlad
    Prahlad 1 June 2020 00: 02 New
    0
    Pull the net over the object, and do not care for this swarm
    1. Boris ⁣ Shaver
      Boris ⁣ Shaver 1 June 2020 01: 53 New
      0
      Quote: Prahlad
      Pull the net over the object, and do not care for this swarm

      Balloons Return
  20. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 2 June 2020 09: 45 New
    0
    The flying characteristics of cheap drones are worse than WWII aircraft. They can be shot down by all training or agricultural aircraft. You can also use medium-caliber anti-aircraft artillery 57-85 mm.
    1. agond
      agond 2 June 2020 10: 16 New
      0
      Quote: bk0010
      It is necessary to make an air defense machine with an analogue of KS-19 or lightweight KS-30, a supply of shells for hitting a dozen drones, a cheap radar for guidance (an optical channel is required), RTR means for early detection of the drone, as well as communication equipment and inclusion in the air defense control system of the area .

      Quite right, though the Ks-19 is a 100mm anti-aircraft gun, which is a bit much for a car, and a bit greasy for a drone, if only in caliber 57 mm, and at close range you can shoot buckshot, centrifugal forces will unload the shot buckshot on the barrel rifles and it will give an ideal talus , by analogy with 12-gauge guns with dispersant drilling. and then today it became possible to create adjustable shells in 57mm caliber, that is, to shoot and slightly correct the trajectory of the projectile and then, on command from the ground, blow it up near the drone.
    2. chingachguc
      chingachguc 6 June 2020 21: 31 New
      0
      The Syrians tried to shoot down, but it turned out, the Turks are covering up the work of their drones F 16 /
  21. DDT
    DDT 4 June 2020 23: 11 New
    0
    Shilka, this is our everything ... Although, at what distance can they launch anti-radar? By God, not to shoot down their expensive rockets?
  22. chingachguc
    chingachguc 6 June 2020 21: 29 New
    0
    In fact, there are many ways to influence drones other than missiles. Starting with jammers and ending with the impact on command posts. In any case, shooting from the zenith is already a failure of air defense