Military Review

PAK YES program: halfway to success

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PAK YES program: halfway to success

The model of the aircraft type "flying wing" in the wind tunnel. According to some versions, it was related to the PAK DA project. Photo TsAGI / tsagi.ru


Since 2009, PJSC Tupolev and other industry enterprises have been working on the “Long-range Aviation Complex aviation"(PAK YES). To date, design work has been completed, and the program is moving on to a new stage. Now the main task of its participants is the construction of an experienced bomber for testing.

Latest events


Not so long ago, at the beginning of last year, the final shape of the future PAK DA was approved. Domestic media then claimed that the documents necessary for the construction of experimental equipment had already appeared. In December, Deputy Defense Minister Alexei Krivoruchko spoke about the readiness of the preliminary design, the beginning of a new phase of work, as well as about the launch of the production of individual units of the experienced PAK DA.

On May 26, the TASS news agency announced the launch of the construction of an experimental aircraft. Information about this was obtained from two unnamed sources in the defense industry. According to one of the sources, by now the development of working design documentation has been completed; it has already been transferred to production.

One of the aircraft factories of the United Aircraft Corporation receives the necessary materials and now has to start manufacturing glider elements. The second source of TASS spoke about the beginning of the assembly of the cabin. He also noted that the prototype of the bomber will be completed in 2021.


A modern version of the possible look of PAK YES. Graphics Air-cosmos.com

The United Aircraft Corporation, Tupolev, or the Ministry of Defense have not officially announced the launch of the PAK DA construction. Perhaps press releases of this kind will appear later.

Expected Dates


To date, the planned deadlines for the implementation of the main stages of the PAK DA program have become known. In January, Izvestia gained access to one of the contracts between the Ministry of Defense and PJSC Tupolev, stipulating the creation of rescue equipment for the new bomber. This document refers to the timing of the various activities.

From the contract it follows that for the flight tests will build three experienced bombers. Preliminary tests of both all systems and aircraft as a whole will begin in 2023 and will last until 2025. At the beginning of 2026, state tests will start. Upon their successful completion, already in 2027 the launch of mass production may take place.

In parallel with the construction of experimental equipment, individual elements will be tested. In particular, work is continuing on a promising engine for PAK DA. This year it is planned to start testing the product at the stand, and then to raise it into the air with the help of a flying laboratory based on the Il-76 aircraft. Accurate information about the development of other on-board systems and assemblies is not yet available.

Estimated appearance


In recent years there have been fragmentary reports of various technical features of the future PAK DA. All this allows us to imagine the appearance of the aircraft, although without special details. The future role of such equipment in the troops is also known.


Another assumption. Graphics Rg.ru

It is reported that PAK DA will be a subsonic subtle bomber-bomber, built according to the "flying wing". This design allows you to get some increase in performance in comparison with existing samples of long-range aviation. For example, the maximum flight duration should exceed 30 hours, and the range without refueling will reach 15 thousand km.

According to various estimates, in terms of design, the PAK DA is fundamentally different from the existing long-range bombers. Modern and perspective materials and manufacturing technologies are used.

Especially for PAK DA, a new turbojet engine is being developed. The development of such a product has been conducted by the United Engine Corporation since 2018. This engine will have to provide a long flight with high subsonic speed. Maximum traction - 23 tf. According to different versions, due to the significant take-off mass, the bomber will receive four of these engines.

The crew of PAK DA includes four people. Probably, it will include two pilots, a navigator-operator and a navigator-navigator, as on the serial Tu-160. According to recent reports, 12 catapult seats were ordered for the construction of three prototype aircraft.

PAK DA must carry promising avionics with open architecture. This will provide the necessary characteristics, as well as simplify further upgrades. The press reports on the unification of PAK DA, Tu-22M3M and Tu-160M2 equipment. It also mentions the possible use of a complex set of viewing systems that provides surveillance of the entire surrounding space.

The available information about the armament of the aircraft is very interesting, but does not give any specifics. Officials mentioned compatibility with existing and promising strategic aviation weapons. In terms of combat load, it will surpass the Tu-160. It is possible to expand the range of ammunition at the expense of self-defense means - air-to-air missiles.


The same model, view from a different angle. Graphics Rg.ru

There are bolder assumptions. In near aviation circles, PAK DA "in the long term" expects electromagnetic, laser and other weapon on new principles. How likely this development is and whether such systems are needed by a long-range bomber is a separate question.

Reserve for the future


Obviously, the PAK DA project is being created with an eye on the next few decades. Serial construction of aircraft of this type will begin only in 2027, and the first squadrons will be able to form only by the beginning of the thirties. Due to the limited pace of production, PAK DA will initially only be an addition to the existing technology of various types.

However, the continuation of mass production will increase their share and gradually modernize the entire fleet of long-range aviation. It is assumed that in the first years of service, the PAK DA will be able to replace the aging Tu-95MS aircraft, similar in flight performance. Also, PAK DA will be able to take on part of the tasks of the Tu-22M3 and Tu-160 bombers. And only in a later period is the restructuring of long-range aviation possible, during which the PAK DA will acquire a leading role.

Given the timing of the start of service, it can be assumed that the PAK DA will remain in service, at least until the turn of the fifties and sixties. By this time, modern designs will go out of service, and new developments will replace them. The media and specialized resources are already discussing issues of further development of strategic missile carriers - so far, however, at the level of the most general considerations.

Half way


From the beginning of research work to the start of construction of the experimental PAK DA, a little more than 10 years have passed - a perfectly normal time for a project of such complexity. The construction started will take less than two years, after which the ground and flight tests will start. Four more years are allotted for verification and refinement. If the project does not encounter unexpected difficulties, mass production will be able to begin in 2027.

Thus, the Tupolev company and the aircraft industry as a whole have already done quite a lot to create a promising aircraft and future renewal of long-range aviation. However, no less needs to be done to make the existing project turn into finished equipment, ready for operation and service.

The project is actually halfway through, and now two issues are of most interest. The first is whether it will be possible to complete all the planned work on time? And the second, more interesting for the public, when will the exact appearance of PAK YES become known not only to a limited circle of people with appropriate tolerances?
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  1. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 1 June 2020 06: 05 New
    +5
    Interestingly, and progress in avionics can not reduce the number of crew to 2x? We even write about Su35S and Su57 about electronic pilots ... it turns out that we have e-pilots and we have fighter jets. Do we have pilots for bombers?
    1. Grandfather
      Grandfather 1 June 2020 08: 05 New
      0
      PAK YES program: halfway to success
      that they often began to "half the way" and only reach ...
      1. Octopus
        Octopus 1 June 2020 10: 08 New
        +1
        In this case, "halfway" is a few left-hand drawings and a couple of meaningless statements by anonymous stars (or invented by the most honest Telegraph Agency of the Soviet Union in the world. The most honest since the name).

        With this halfway, determining the end of the path is easy.
    2. Kalmar
      Kalmar 1 June 2020 08: 42 New
      14
      Quote: Zaurbek
      Interestingly, and progress in avionics can not reduce the number of crew to 2x?

      Perhaps two of them will be enough most of the time, and four of them will be to ensure some kind of shift: 30 hours of continuous flight, few will survive.
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 1 June 2020 08: 52 New
        +1
        The crew of PAK DA includes four people. Probably two pilots will enter it, navigator-operator and navigator-navigator, as on the serial Tu-160. [i] [/ i] According to recent reports, 12 ejection seats were ordered for the construction of three prototype aircraft.
        1. Kalmar
          Kalmar 1 June 2020 09: 04 New
          +4
          Quote: Zaurbek
          navigator operator and navigator navigator

          I don’t really know how their responsibilities are distributed, but the military loves to lay redundancy everywhere, so, I believe, to one degree or another, one can quite replace the other.
        2. opus
          opus 1 June 2020 22: 11 New
          +4
          Quote: Zaurbek
          The crew of PAK DA includes four people. Probably two pilots will enter it,

          PAK YES not even on paper yet, but already "includes"?
          : whites:
          Northrop B-2 Spirit has a crew = 2

          Creation has begun in 1979 year according to the program “Advanced Technologists Bomber”
          B-21 “Raider” will also have 2x

          Some of the main differences between the B-21 and the B-2. (Image Credit: US Air Force Aviationist)
          * The overall shape is similar to the B-2, but the B-21 is smaller in size
          * The B-21 front profile demonstrates a different design concept: in particular, the new aircraft does not seem to have the shape of the edge of its predecessor’s toothpicks; therefore, the peculiar B-2 “hawk-beak” profile is also lacking
          * B-21 has a different inlet configuration and mixed conformal engine nacelles.
          * The B-21 has an MLG with two wheels (Main Chassis)
          * The doors of the MLG and Nose Gear are different: in particular, the doors of the MLG are not trapezoidal, but have serrated edges, while the doors of the nasal gear are serrated and attached not to the leg of the gear, but on the right side of the compartment.

          WHY aircraft of the 21st century "navigator-operator and navigator-navigator"?
          Quote: Zaurbek
          According to recent reports, 12 catapult seats were ordered for the construction of three prototype aircraft.

          catapult armchairs required to experience:
          -on vibration
          -on statics
          -It grew (from different angles to the aberrant flow)
          fire resistance
          - on contact with the ground during partial opening / or non-opening of main parachutes
          -on electrical compatibility, electro statics and more.
          Including hardly 12: 3 = 4 crew members
          1. shonsu
            shonsu 2 June 2020 11: 13 New
            0
            I also think that the navigator navigator can at least be replaced by Yandex.navigator. )))
    3. Civil
      Civil 1 June 2020 09: 37 New
      +4
      This path will be long and difficult, with adventures and an implicit outcome, although developments always find application.
    4. Ros 56
      Ros 56 1 June 2020 11: 31 New
      +3
      Imagine yourself in the pilot's seat for 10-16 hours and without a navigator with a flight engineer. negative
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 1 June 2020 12: 58 New
        +1
        Well, like the Americans fly .....
        1. Ros 56
          Ros 56 1 June 2020 14: 13 New
          +2
          Some jump from the roof, so what?
          1. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek 1 June 2020 17: 37 New
            -4
            And on the trampoline .....
        2. dauria
          dauria 1 June 2020 22: 58 New
          +3
          Well, like the Americans fly .....


          In 1927, Lindbergh alone crossed the Atlantic in 33 hours and 30 minutes. Without GPS and autopilot, without radio.
          And now the pilot who is engaged in piloting, navigation and power plant is archaism. "The violinist is not needed, he only eats excess fuel." Here's to understand the instruments in a tactical situation, and even if the enemy is not chewing snot - so far without a man in any way. He should only spur the horse, and bark "Take it out, darling." But do not think for the horse, how to move her legs, when to jump over the hillock.
          I think the Americans will remove these two too. They will leave on one "in the rear", and the drums in front will go empty.
          1. shonsu
            shonsu 2 June 2020 11: 16 New
            0
            ... you just have to spur the horse, and bark "Take it out, darling." But not to think for the horse, how to rearrange its legs ...
            Well said... )))
      2. WapentakeLokki
        WapentakeLokki 1 June 2020 18: 53 New
        -2
        ... yeah, especially considering that there are still no latrine standards on the Tu-95 .. well, on the prospective beaver there is a chance for a bio-toilet (well, or crew diapers) ... well, Wi-Fi on board (there will be play DCS)
    5. Herman 4223
      Herman 4223 1 June 2020 18: 30 New
      0
      Maybe so more reliable? The main thing in the troops is to work.
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 2 June 2020 09: 08 New
        +2
        Maybe so, but in the aviation they squeeze out all the reserves both by weight and strength ...- plus two people on board is minus fuel. Tu160 was designed in the 70-80s and has 4 people in a carriage. 40 years have passed ....
        1. Herman 4223
          Herman 4223 2 June 2020 15: 03 New
          0
          I think this is not the case. Fuel will increase for several minutes of flight, the engines are created with a thrust of 23 tons and there should be four of them. They will have a huge expense, removing two people will give an increase in range but not by much. And in the long flight so reliable and more fun.
          1. kjhg
            kjhg 2 June 2020 20: 54 New
            +1
            Quote: Herman 4223
            to remove two people this will give an increase in range but not by much.

            It's not just about increasing range. Minus 2 crew members are:
            - the release of a large amount of space under the compartment of weapons or fuel tanks, or reducing the size of the airframe itself by reducing the size of the cockpit
            - lightening the weight of an empty plane due to the weight of 2 pilots, ejection seats, etc.
            - a twofold reduction in the cost of training pilots, the costs of their maintenance, etc.
            And this is just what immediately comes to mind to a person who is not connected with aviation. But even this is very significant. No wonder the Americans have only 2 crew members on their strategists. And this amount is quite enough at the current level of development of avionics.
            1. Herman 4223
              Herman 4223 2 June 2020 22: 07 New
              +3
              Maybe there will be two, but about four it’s just disa. I think that the people who do this are definitely not stupid, and they can do such a task. Or maybe these crew members will but will not be engaged in what we all think. After all, they want to place explosives for self-defense there. Even somewhere I heard about the possibility of a long-range interception function, maybe one crew member will be engaged in air combat for example. And the second setting is various interference and airspace control.
              This is of course my fantasies. But everything is probably different than what we think and fools among those who are engaged in this business think too.
              1. kjhg
                kjhg 2 June 2020 22: 11 New
                +1
                Quote: Herman 4223
                But everything is probably different than what we think and fools among those who are engaged in this business think too.

                Fools are not there, I agree. Otherwise, in the design departments we would be sitting instead
                1. Herman 4223
                  Herman 4223 2 June 2020 22: 19 New
                  +1
                  Well, I don’t seem to be, but I’m not a constructor for this, I certainly won’t be there. Otherwise, the trouble is this program.
    6. shonsu
      shonsu 2 June 2020 11: 04 New
      0
      It also seems to me that the number of crew should be reduced. 4 people today is already a luxury. Pilot and navigator, for decision making. The rest should be automated.
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 2 June 2020 16: 49 New
        0
        Now even refueling in the air has already been automated
  2. Thrifty
    Thrifty 1 June 2020 06: 09 New
    +3
    Yes, with our nose only trample the mound! We grab onto everything, and then we minimize or close the programs! And then we get an eternal unfinished type of T14 tanks and others like them! There is no modern microelectronic base, lack of modern equipment for production, lack of personnel, because the gap between Soviet specialists and modern managers from pseudo-production is huge! So, I’m sure that this program also expects a sad fate to be closed due to the terrible high cost of the final product, built on outdated equipment and old technologies.
    1. Pessimist22
      Pessimist22 1 June 2020 06: 20 New
      +2
      The program was written halfway, in 2030 we will see everything, the main thing is that the money be allocated to them smile
    2. Sky strike fighter
      Sky strike fighter 1 June 2020 13: 42 New
      -1
      Quote: Thrifty
      Yes, with our nose only trample the mound! We grab onto everything, and then we minimize or close the programs! And then we get an eternal unfinished type of T14 tanks and others like them! There is no modern microelectronic base, lack of modern equipment for production, lack of personnel, because the gap between Soviet specialists and modern managers from pseudo-production is huge! So, I’m sure that this program also expects a sad fate to be closed due to the terrible high cost of the final product, built on outdated equipment and old technologies.


      Do not pretend to be valid for you. We will bring all programs to mass production. No need to throw on the fan. They got it already.
      May 28, 2020, AEX.RU - Kazan Aircraft Plant implements a large-scale technical re-equipment program and implements the State Defense Order. This was reported by the UAC press service following a working visit on May 27 by Oleg Bocharov, Deputy Minister of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation, and Yury Slyusar, General Director of PJSC UAC, to Kazan Aviation Plant named after S.P. Gorbunova - a branch of PJSC Tupolev (as part of PJSC UAC under the control of the State Corporation Rostec).

      During the meeting, the General Director of PJSC Tupolev Alexander Konyukhov informed the leaders about the execution of production contracts. Oleg Bocharov and Yuri Slyusar got acquainted with the progress of the program for the resumption of the production of deeply upgraded Tu-160M ​​bombers, repair and modernization of Tu-160 combat aircraft, and the test program for the second prototype deeply upgraded Tu-22M3M.

      "The deputy minister and the head of the UAC also visited workshops equipped with new high-tech equipment of domestic production, capital construction facilities, in particular, the unit and final assembly building and the building of the design and engineering center, got acquainted with the reconstruction of the flight test base, within which new fuel is being built -fueling complex ", - said in the UAC.

      https://www.aex.ru/news/2020/5/28/213085/
  3. rocket757
    rocket757 1 June 2020 07: 08 New
    +4
    PAK YES program: halfway to success

    It happens that pictures and high-profile statements take on a real embodiment ... unfortunately, it happens and vice versa!
    Which option is expected?
    In the military sphere with us, everything is not so sour, and often very norms ... but still ???
    1. Kalmar
      Kalmar 1 June 2020 10: 29 New
      +2
      Quote: rocket757
      Which option is expected?

      As in the old joke:
      - What are the chances of meeting a tyrannosaurus on the street?
      - 50 to 50: either meet or not.


      Until 2027 (voiced in the article) is still very far away; During this time, a lot of things can happen that can both bring the implementation of the program closer and put a bold cross on it.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 1 June 2020 10: 33 New
        +2
        Guess, don’t guess, everything can be clear very later.
        1. bouncyhunter
          bouncyhunter 1 June 2020 11: 27 New
          +4
          No need to run ahead of the engine. yes
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 1 June 2020 11: 38 New
            +6
            Honestly, we would be in "happy ignorance" if our "responsible" persons were engaged in business, and not idly chatting language.
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 1 June 2020 12: 23 New
                +1
                Any muddiness at the top, for the future the state will not go ... to us, the EU too.
                1. bouncyhunter
                  bouncyhunter 1 June 2020 12: 25 New
                  +3
                  Vitya, my quote concerns not only the Russian Federation or any other power. This is true for ANY country ...
                  1. rocket757
                    rocket757 1 June 2020 12: 31 New
                    0
                    And the law of MURPHY \ BOOTBROBROD, it is one for all, no matter how you call it!
      2. Ryaruav
        Ryaruav 1 June 2020 18: 46 New
        0
        squid, you're right either the donkey or the paddies will die by then, but the denyushka will be cut securely before
  4. pavelty
    pavelty 1 June 2020 10: 15 New
    -2
    Some kind of cranberries on the table, either there will be, or not ... some kind of enterprise in the UAC ... what?
  5. silver_roman
    silver_roman 1 June 2020 10: 16 New
    +4
    most annoying that we have learned to announce, set up a PR company, draw pictures with prototypes, but bring to serial production so far, alas. What do we drive from prototypes? Armata is all (t14,15,16,155 it.p.), su57, boomerang, coalition, kurgan. and what is syrian? t90m, BTR 82a, etc. Those. we’ll announce and no more, but we’ll build what the fathers and grandfathers built and designed, but did not announce, and let SILENT be released into the series. now is the time for talkers. even I'm sitting here, sofa expert, I'm crucified on the site, sitting in the net from a Chinese smartphone)
    1. +5
      +5 1 June 2020 15: 30 New
      +1
      Tell, on examples, who is better with new (namely new) generations (at the same time where the USA has a new tank, BMP and self-propelled guns for example - they are not even in prototypes) .... Only one crude Fy-35 is riveted, although it’s smart this was not necessary .... and the start of serial production of the Su-57 - there is, Armat - is (they were ordered to an experimental batch more than the Germans can drive tanks in general).
      Well, what’s going to be there with the B-21 Ryder .... in our SA, things are even better than theirs,
      1. silver_roman
        silver_roman 4 June 2020 17: 37 New
        0
        and they don’t really need a new tank. Do you often see the U.S. Army fighting land equipment? As a rule, axes first calves, then aviation, and finally democratic broads. Whatever the F-35, there are already more than half a thousand of them. They’ll finish it ... or not finish it, but each of them will be able to launch a rocket, detect the target, etc. Its shortcomings lie in the nuances that do not often affect the outcome of the battle.
        1. +5
          +5 4 June 2020 19: 25 New
          0
          Not really needed? So everything can be said ... An armata is not needed at all, the T-90AM will close all possible upgrades of Abrasha and Leo ... Su-57 ... and have you seen for a long time that we fought for air supremacy? The last time this happened in Korea ... I don’t need him ...
          A raw F-35 can launch a missile much worse than an F-16 ... and once again, what then to do with them so raw, how will the good ones go? Upgrade a new airplane for a dozen or two lyamov? Congress will not understand even after suitcases from lobbyists .... to throw out (aka write off to the reserve) only, so that later, perhaps, slowly begin to modernize ....
    2. WapentakeLokki
      WapentakeLokki 1 June 2020 18: 54 New
      0
      .. well, AK-12 ...
    3. vVvAD
      vVvAD 1 June 2020 19: 10 New
      0
      even I'm sitting here, sofa expert, I am crucifying on the site, sitting in the net from a Chinese smartphone

      Iphone, as it were, is also produced in China. For since the transfer of production to China, they have repeatedly developed technology, but they forgot to share with the Americans lol Actually, when Trump was poking around with the return of production to the United States, it turned out that the elemental base was out of date. A brick with the characteristics of your Chinese is possible, but something corresponding in the right dimension is no longer there.
      Do the numbers 21631, 12700, 22350, 955 say anything? It can be simpler for perception: Yak-130, Mi-28, Ka-52, Pantsir-S2, S-400, Voronezh-DM, ZGRLS "Container", Arctic trefoil. Enough?
      1. The comment was deleted.
    4. shonsu
      shonsu 2 June 2020 11: 34 New
      0
      And you better think with your head that the serial rides. Project 22350 frigates, Borey, Yasen, Bulava, Vanguard, Peresvet, Lada Vesta, Elbrus, Yars, Su-57 submarines were put into service and ordered. Armata is finished installation party, all the way. I haven’t mentioned a lot of things and I don’t know even more.
  6. Vladimir Mashkov
    Vladimir Mashkov 1 June 2020 11: 31 New
    +1
    Unlike the society of pessimists and all-pervading people, I liked the article. It is clear that development is underway, but the result is not clear yet for the developers. In addition, there is such a thing as "mystery". And the pictures are interesting. A nice unusual eroplane looms.
    1. strelokmira
      strelokmira 1 June 2020 13: 19 New
      -3
      You oreshechki all projects for which funds have been spent, but are not accepted for weapons really like. Already paw pleasure from rubbing
      1. Carib
        Carib 1 June 2020 18: 14 New
        -3
        Design bureaus work, competencies are growing, new materials are being studied and applied, electronic components, comput. technique, new physical principles. They will give birth, they will give birth, it is not known when and what, because secretly, but they will create and launch them in a series. Shoigu will help them, I believe!
  7. Wasilii
    Wasilii 1 June 2020 11: 32 New
    10
    If designers and engineers were given at least half of the money paid to the propagandists, then Russia would have missiles and PAK DA and everything else. But alas request
    1. Sky strike fighter
      Sky strike fighter 1 June 2020 13: 34 New
      0
      Do you want to say that Russia has no missiles?
  8. Doccor18
    Doccor18 1 June 2020 12: 23 New
    -2
    If, nevertheless, this plane takes off, then our country will once again stand at the forefront of the global aircraft industry. And this is wonderful! But just what time does this program get to the budget of the Ministry of Defense and the state? And this with so many unsolved problems and current problems ....
    1. Sky strike fighter
      Sky strike fighter 1 June 2020 13: 35 New
      +1
      Who does not want to feed his army will feed someone else's.
      1. WapentakeLokki
        WapentakeLokki 1 June 2020 19: 03 New
        -2
        .. going to hunt, to feed the dogs ... too much, everything about the feed .. and on the way out .. what ??? .. and always have an excuse from the military .. underfunding .. and the experience of the USSR showed that how many wolves do not feed ..NATO .. ​​all the same .. MORE ... it might be worth deciding who our enemy is (namely ENEMY Karl) in the 14st century and if these are muslims with jahad mobiles then we have tanks where we have enough eyes MRAP and armored personnel carrier ... but the T-57 is needed if we are going to take Europe again ... the same thing with aviation what we need; shock UAV or Strategist ??? .. and something I have a doubt that they will throw a Su-25 or this Super Bomber against spirits .. (even mattresses don’t do that) .. MAX old men Su-XNUMX .. and then ... loot in ..this is only for the sake of the next cut .. alas ..
        1. Sky strike fighter
          Sky strike fighter 1 June 2020 19: 49 New
          +3
          so maybe it’s worth deciding who our enemy is (namely ENEMY Carl) in the XNUMXst century

          The enemy of the United States and in the long term possibly China. Perhaps, but not a fact. And Syria, Libya is a warm-up, so to speak. Local conflicts.
          but the T-14 is needed if we are going to take Europe again.

          T-14 to fight off Europe and the USA. In WWII, a united Europe, led by Germany, was going to take us, but couldn’t. They started, not us. I had to take Berlin. Forcedly. We didn’t want to take any Europe and do not want to take it. Not then, not now, but we need the potential to be beaten off in any situation. So we need T-14 and not only them.
          the same thing with aviation what you need; shock UAV or Strategist ???

          Both that and another. Now they are working on UAVs Orion, Okhotnik and on the strategists Tu-160M2, PAK DA. But the priority is definitely strategists. Guess why. The strategic bombers are incomparably more important for the country in view of its strategic and quality capabilities. This is a weapon of a different order than drones.
          and something I have a doubt that they will throw a Su-57 or this Super Bomber against spirits .. (even mattresses don’t do that) ..

          They arrived. During the assault on Mosul, the B-52N took a direct part and no drones dreamed of their effectiveness. The F-22 and F-35 were in Syria and Iraq. The F-35 was used to attack militants. Israel is also not embarrassed to use the F-35 for strikes in Syria and Iraq. UAVs have auxiliary functions and do not carry many bombs.
          MAX old men Su-25.

          And when they will be written off. What will they replace? Unmanned aerial vehicles or something? No aviation. New generation. Su-57.
          .and on .. then invest the loot in ..this is only for the sake of the next cut .. alas ..

          You don’t think about dough, but about the army protecting the interests of the country. It pays twice for the purchase. And it’s good when money is invested in the development of the military-industrial complex, in industry. Change the training manual.
          1. WapentakeLokki
            WapentakeLokki 1 June 2020 20: 20 New
            0
            ... let's take the history of wars of the 20th century (specifically for Russia, it doesn’t matter with the Empire or the Scoop) .. what do we have at the beginning of wars (which is Great or Great Patriotic) .. army .. from Taiga to the British Seas .. well or .. we we’ll throw them with their caps ... yeah, a small blow with a mighty blow .. (you can continue but ... why, and so it is clear; a lot of dough and resources have been invested and the aplomb goes off scale .. well, were we proud of our army (.. isn’t that ??) ..but the Dashing Godin came and ... the personnel army DIES in the very first year (well, or half a year) the equipment is abandoned (or burned down at the airdromes) the fleet got into its bases and fenced off with mines ..and .. and here ALWAYS one and the same thing; mobilization (yeah, those who were tearing themselves away to feed, arm and provide the ARMY .. which .. was merged) and again men (.. and women .. aha brothers and sisters) with their .. defend the Country. covering lives of mistakes and miscalculations (aha of pre-war rya-patriots .. optimists .. for) ... so that there is less pathos Max .. maybe your children will have to .. close our country with Ak-74 and, nehai Ratnik against gifted Drones (of which there are no absolutely ..) and robotic platforms ...
            Py.Sy ... well, and our leaders ... they will drive for permanent residence to their foreign villas and yachts ... if they have them not in Uryupinsk but in Nice and on the Gods ... or I confuse something ... this is a question cuts and hamsters in offshore ..
            1. Sky strike fighter
              Sky strike fighter 1 June 2020 20: 35 New
              +2
              (which are not part of the Sun Raska ..)

              For this and grab can be in a decent society. am Think what you write. Although to whom am I writing this? Everything is clear with you. You are treated like a schoolboy.
              Nehai Warrior against shock Drones (which in the composition of the Sun of Raska are not at all ..)

              Why warrior? We have air defense against drones and aviation. There are, though not yet in a series, our own strike UAVs Orion, Altair, Okhotnik. We found something to scare us with - drones. In the same Syria and Libya, Turkish drones are knocked down in batches.
              Py.Sy ... well, and our leaders ... they will drive for permanent residence to their foreign villas and yachts ... if they have them not in Uryupinsk but in Nice and on the Gods ... or I confuse something ... this is a question cuts and hamsters in offshore ..

              We would like to surrender and dump everything, we would have surrendered and dumped everything a long time ago. Let's not give your speculations as the ultimate truth.
              1. WapentakeLokki
                WapentakeLokki 1 June 2020 21: 29 New
                -2
                ..except for the Hunter (who will be sawed as Su and Armatu .. as soon as the years .. and like .. well, that's it) what kind of drone UAVs are there in the Russian Armed Forces ??? .. maybe something imported .. but not a fact .. but for now, in the absence of a stamp .. guys are patrolling in the already mentioned Syria, over the positions of ISIS on the Su-25 (.. you know the result, no ??? ) .. the same Turks are armed with shock drones and Rashka .. has cartoons .. alas .. well, it’s not the military UAVs that are launched by the Carapace launched by the chocks .. this is just under the attack of the Israelis, these Carapaces will die. .. alas. (by the way, you vidos .. how the Shell works, no ... but it's curious how it sausages when the barrel art is working .. MZA .. I wonder what is the accuracy with such shaking ... well, for drones, however, it was +> ... but only ..) .. but in general, to convince the one who operates with patriotic stuffing .. that to draw water with drushlak ..
                Py.Sy .. how many conscripts get the whole body kit on the same AK .. + PNV and communication ?? .. or maybe a platoon, from sin, everything sticks in the safe and the herd don’t fly in the old fashioned fly-slot .. ( I do not mean the ceremonial units, namely the outback ... by the way, exactly the one that makes up the military army of Our Rashi ..)
                1. Sky strike fighter
                  Sky strike fighter 1 June 2020 21: 39 New
                  +3
                  Sun Rusni

                  and Raska

                  You hear ...... Zelensky’s victim. Your happiness is that you are far away now. am am am
                  what are the drone UAVs

                  UAV Orion, Altair-U.
                  The shock version of the Russian medium-altitude long-range drone Orion (class MALE, Medium Altitude, Long Endurance) was tested in Syria and began to go into experimental military operation in the Russian Aerospace Forces, a source in the military-industrial complex said.

                  https://x-true.info/90460-rossija-primenila-v-sirii-udarnyj-bespilotnik-s-raketami.html
                  1. WapentakeLokki
                    WapentakeLokki 2 June 2020 19: 09 New
                    -1
                    ... again, some agitation .. the victim of the guarantor .. the first drone UAV appeared 20 years ago (.. yeah back ... once the peers of the guarantor at the post of the scoop ..) and still .. are trying ... experienced exploitation .. during this time, the generation has changed for the mattresses. (. they heard what the Ripper from the Predator was ... no ..) but by the way, what am I ... you have blinkers ... in the mosh ... and why do I need to prove it to you .. you need it yourself. .Go .. well, at least in your Syria and check it out ... but sho wono e ... please ... (.. by the way I’m not a descendant of the Sumerians .. but this does not mean that I am a stubborn Putin ..) in general I’m tired ..I’m leaving .. and you’re verte .. and maybe .. but it materializes .. (.. everything is like Count Kaliosto .. materialization .. it is such that drones and daggers will also have drones and .. will be ... aha soon (or like Zyu ... inadvertently ..)
  9. Ryaruav
    Ryaruav 1 June 2020 18: 41 New
    +1
    if we could invest this money for the pack in our promising radio electronics (but not the red-headed muskrat), I think it would be more useful
  10. vVvAD
    vVvAD 1 June 2020 19: 22 New
    0
    Even in the media, information flashed that the Ministry of Defense wanted to see anti-satellite weapons and air launch vehicles on the PAK DA bore. As well as the possibility of modular loading PSU, i.e. hypothetically, load all the compartments with V-V DB missiles and send them to pair with A-50 or A-100 - organize aerial A2AD.
  11. spectr
    spectr 1 June 2020 19: 48 New
    +1
    It is assumed that in the first years of service, the PAK DA will be able to replace the aging Tu-95MS aircraft, similar in flight performance. Also, PAK DA will be able to take on part of the tasks of the Tu-22M3 and Tu-160 bombers.

    It seems, as always, with the engines is not very.
  12. opus
    opus 1 June 2020 22: 41 New
    +6
    Quote: Ryabov Kirill
    PAK YES program: halfway to success


    belay
    fake?
    http://www.tsagi.ru/pressroom/news/658/

    Interestingly Ryabov personally "cut off" the nacelle in Photoshop?
    Quote: Ryabov Kirill
    Promising projects of strategic bombers from different countries.



    Quote: Ryabov Kirill
    According to some versions, it was related to the PAK DA project.

    what
    at source

    In black and white, in Russian it is written:
    commented on the head of the department of aerodynamics of aircraft and missiles TsAGI Anatoly Bolsunovsky.
    Formation Research long-haul passenger Aircraft of the “Flying Wing” scheme at TsAGI have been going on for more than 25 years. Previously, the main attention was paid to aircraft with extra-large passenger capacity - up to 1000 seats. Today, researchers are focused on smaller aircraft (up to 200 seats). Russia will be able to implement this project on its own, without attracting foreign partners.

    The LC scheme attracts specialists with the opportunity to obtain a very high aerodynamic quality of cruising flight (K ~ 23),


    Well, how much can you say about PAK YES the same thing with the same photos ...
    Quote: Ryabov Kirill
    Project PAK DA: behind a veil of secrecy


    good
    1. Wasilii
      Wasilii 2 June 2020 00: 18 New
      +1
      BRAVO!!! The best about PAK YES on the whole resource drinks
    2. timokhin-aa
      timokhin-aa 26 July 2020 22: 29 New
      +3
      This is Ryabov. A person is not interested in the result of labor, so it turns out at the exit ...
      PAK YES legs grow from this model

      and the "subsonic" version of the NK-32.

      What's wrong with my TZR, but oh well, let them at least do it.
      Aviaonics will probably be stuck there from the Tu-160M2, which is now being worked out in order to save money, therefore the crew is the same.
      Something like this ...
  13. Filxnumx
    Filxnumx 2 June 2020 07: 13 New
    +1
    One of the aircraft factories of the United Aircraft Corporation receives the necessary materials and now has to start manufacturing glider elements.

    the author, but what in the UAC are a dime a dozen of plants capable of collecting PAK DA type aircraft? Write directly: KAZ them. S.P. Gorbunova, Kazan. And do not suffer from secrecy, it, in this case, is not. It is enough to compare the facts from the open press 1 + 1 = 2.
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