Military Review

“Lip” - punishment and education: from the history of the guardhouse

118

The famous “lips” were feared by many military personnel. And many had a chance to visit her. More than three hundred years totals история guardhouse of the Russian army - special guard rooms where guilty military personnel can be detained.


From tsarist to Soviet: how the guardhouse in Russia developed


Translated from German Hauptwache - "main guard." As the name implies, the first guardhouses appeared in Central and Western Europe, in the German kingdoms and principalities. These were the premises of the city guard, which sometimes could contain temporarily arrested persons for subsequent escort.

The first guardhouse appeared in Russia in 1707 at the initiative of Peter I. The first guardhouse was built on Sennaya Square in St. Petersburg. By tradition, in other cities, guardhouses began to be placed on the main squares. It was in Russia that under the guardhouse they began to understand a special type of punishment for military personnel, which slightly changed the initial content of this military term. After all, let's say, in most other countries of the world, the notion of a “military prison” is an analog of a guardhouse.

In pre-revolutionary Russia for corporal punishment and negligent service, they were subjected to corporal punishment. Therefore, only an officer could “close” the guardhouse. Everything changed after the abolition of corporal punishment: the soldiers had to somehow be held accountable for misconduct and they too began to be put under arrest in a guardhouse.

The history of guardhouses in Russian cities is full of sad events. Yet these are essentially prisons, and prisons are always tragedies, small or large. For example, in Vyborg, as a result of a speech by Lavr Kornilov, General O. A. Oranovsky, Major General V. N. Vasiliev, Major General F. V. Stepanov and Lieutenant Colonel Kurenius were arrested and imprisoned at the Vyborg guardhouse by the Council. On August 29, 1917 they were killed by revolutionary soldiers, and the bodies were thrown from the bridge into the bay.


Guardhouse of the Vyborg fortress (cafe "on the lip")

In Soviet times, custody at a guardhouse became the main way to punish guilty military personnel of any rank. Of course, most often the clients of the “lips” (as the Russian military Russified the “guardhouse” to simplify the term) were privates and sergeants, but there were exceptions when “whole colonels” came to the guardhouse. Often, not so much for the purpose of real punishment for a committed act, but for "educational" purposes. But there were different cases. Sometimes one did not interfere with the other.

In fact, the Soviet guardhouse has become an analogue of foreign military prisons. There was no concept of a “military prison” in the USSR and in Russia: the military, who committed offenses and crimes, could either be arrested and detained at a guardhouse, or sent to a disciplinary battalion (privates and sergeants), or dismissed from military service after a court sentence and send to the usual “civilian” correctional institution.

How the guardhouse has changed in modern Russia and why


Until 2002, the company commander could be placed on guardhouse for a serious disciplinary offense for up to 3 days. For 10 days, superior officers could be placed on guardhouse. In 2002, military personnel began to be placed in guardhouses, in relation to which investigative actions were carried out.

Throughout the nineties of the twentieth century, the very fact of the guardhouse was a “red rag” for Russian human rights activists: they repeatedly demanded the abolition of this type of disciplinary punishment, citing international law. Ultimately, Russia, having acceded to the Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms, was forced to reconsider its attitude towards guardhouses.

This was done in 2002, already under President Vladimir Putin. By the decree of the head of state dated June 30, 2002, “On Amending the General Military Statutes of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation,” the right of the commander to seize a soldier was excluded from the disciplinary charter. In July 2002, the guardhouse was canceled, and all references to it were excluded from the charters.


Military police. It is her military personnel who perform the tasks of guarding watchhouses


However, like many other ill-conceived decisions, the abolition of the guardhouse did not have the best effect on the state of order in the units and divisions of the Russian army and fleet. As a result, already in 2006, the same Putin allowed military courts to apply disciplinary arrest in relation to military personnel. However, the rules for placement under disciplinary arrest have changed: now only a military tribunal can make a decision on placing a serviceman in a guardhouse; the commander does not have this right.

The grounds for the admission of military personnel to the guardhouse and their maintenance there are drawn up in the manner prescribed by the legislation of the Russian Federation: a copy of the decision of the judge of the garrison military court on disciplinary arrest (court decision on the execution of the sentence) - for military personnel subjected to disciplinary arrest (sentenced to arrest); copy of the sentence - for convicts by a military court; a copy of the court decision on detention, a copy of the protocol of detention or the protocol on the application of measures to ensure the production of materials on disciplinary misconduct - for detained military personnel,

- reads the annex to the Charter of the military police of the Russian Federation.

History has shown that an army can exist without a guardhouse, but discipline, as they say, often needs to be adjusted. There will always be soldiers who violate discipline, commit disciplinary offenses, crimes. What to do with a soldier who voluntarily left the unit and came intoxicated? Or cursing the commander with abusive words? You cannot bring him to criminal liability with a real term of imprisonment, and there is no reason to. But “cooling” the ardor and coming to his senses often helped, however, she also had a flip side - there were cases of settling accounts with “disloyal” commanders.
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  1. knn54
    knn54 29 May 2020 11: 53 New
    10
    In Soviet times, in Primorye, sailors / marines had a "lip" in a damp cave.
    Many only the chance to get there was effectively "restrained" in their actions
    1. lwxx
      lwxx 29 May 2020 13: 02 New
      12
      In the Kaliningrad garrison (90-91gg) in order to put a soldier on the lip, it was necessary to give a bribe-paint, roofing felt, etc. laughing I myself sat in Riga on the district lip for 12 days, a hanger. Especially if you entered the "shoes" outfit, underwent treatment with bleach. working off the RD72 strike and the swallow ...
      1. Crowe
        Crowe 29 May 2020 15: 16 New
        12
        We didn’t have this, most of all the drill soldier finished off me from the morning until the fence, but it’s okay, you could live ... I don’t know if they gave bribes or not, but there was “no place” all the time, they took the guys there several times before attaching - in line, as in the store for the deficit lined up on the lip ...
      2. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 29 May 2020 15: 33 New
        +9
        In the Kaliningrad garrison (90-91gg) in order to put a soldier on the lip, it was necessary to give a bribe-paint, roofing felt, etc.
        In Kharkov (91-92gg.) - the same thing!
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 29 May 2020 16: 19 New
          +5
          So it was everywhere in large garrisons.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 29 May 2020 16: 26 New
            +3
            That's right, Viktor Nikolaevich! The saturation of the settlement with "service people" affects the deficit in places of punishment for this contingent for minor offenses.
            1. Undecim
              Undecim 29 May 2020 16: 41 New
              +3
              Yes, for small ones, they did not send them to the garrison guardhouse. Prefer to understand privately, for example, a week of outfits. It was already necessary to get the commander specifically, so that he decided to send the fighter to the guardhouse. Situations with patrols - a separate article.
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 29 May 2020 16: 52 New
                +2
                This depended on the size of the garrison and the size of the "lip".
                1. Undecim
                  Undecim 29 May 2020 17: 00 New
                  +2
                  In our Chabanka, the guardhouse was often empty.
    2. Stavros
      Stavros 29 May 2020 16: 03 New
      +5
      In Kropotkin, in addition to the guardhouse, there was also a tank buried in the ground, where sometimes malicious violators of the charter were imprisoned (87-89)
      1. 210ox
        210ox 29 May 2020 23: 29 New
        0
        We, in military unit 54119 in Balabanovo, had an 11 chamber with one window opening in the grill ... I myself served in this system. - 210 separate commandant platoon in 82-84. In 1985, this unit disbanded, whom they planted, whom they sent to serve in Golitsino. The murder of the arrested person was committed.
    3. Normal ok
      Normal ok 30 May 2020 16: 28 New
      0
      Quote: knn54
      In Soviet times, in Primorye, sailors / marines had a "lip" in a damp cave.
      Many only the chance to get there was effectively "restrained" in their actions

      In Odessa in the 80s, in order to put a soldier on his lip, the commandant had to do well (because there was a queue wassat )). Being a cadet, he himself guarded. then, as an officer, he was on duty at the commandant’s office (the lip was in the backyard of the commandant’s office, Lenin Battalion Street, now Army).
    4. pacific
      pacific 23 June 2020 00: 42 New
      0
      It was in what garrison of Primorye the lip was in the cave?
      I happened to serve 3 months on secondment to the prosecutor's office of the Vladimir-Olginsky garrison. I had to travel around the guardhouses. But I didn’t even hear about the cave lip.
      It would be interesting to know the details.
  2. Ravil_Asnafovich
    Ravil_Asnafovich 29 May 2020 11: 53 New
    +6
    Regarding the educational process, "lip" really helped, especially for individuals, I don't know how in other units, but in the one in which the term of arrest was not taken into account in the term of the military unit, they knew about it, and did not show off too much
    1. Sklendarka
      Sklendarka 29 May 2020 12: 16 New
      0
      And what service can an conscript have?
      But there were also traditions of gathering for the “lip”, meetings with the “lip.” The question is, can anyone sit on the garrison “lip” in Moscow. In “Aleshinka” or at least have been in the “third guard” in Lefortovo ???
      Share ...
      1. carstorm 11
        carstorm 11 29 May 2020 12: 23 New
        +1
        military service was always in the seniority. during the arrest these days were not taken into account. 2 years of experience is not so little, but taking into account, for example, the north, even more.
        1. Sklendarka
          Sklendarka 29 May 2020 13: 23 New
          +1
          And what years do you apologize for? I am DMB79 and these TWO years are not considered to this day, because they are not included in the insurance record.
          And who at the age of 19 thought about experience?
          1. carstorm 11
            carstorm 11 29 May 2020 13: 34 New
            -1
            when you were demobilized you were given a document. which you had to give in the place where you got a job and got a work book. and everything went there. in my opinion it was possible without this help, or even just by a military man, but that’s not accurate. The period spent in the army is confirmed by a military ID, a certificate of service or a corresponding entry in the work book entered there on the basis of a document attesting to being in the army. and about thinking people are different. but fact is fact. at 19 years old one could think. this can be done now if you have issued a pension before 2002.
            1. Sklendarka
              Sklendarka 29 May 2020 13: 38 New
              +5
              Sorry, except for a military ticket and a requirement for a train ticket + 10 rubles, they did not give anything to me personally ...
              But there are so many non-living, I’m already 62 years old ...
              1. chenia
                chenia 29 May 2020 14: 49 New
                -3
                And nothing more is needed. And the fact that you clicked for two years. then your problems, Although I can not imagine how this could happen? Even if they didn’t apply to a robot, but to a university, then there were few benefits, and training was part of the experience.
                1. Sklendarka
                  Sklendarka 29 May 2020 15: 03 New
                  +4
                  The service in the CA is included in the total length of service, but ... NO in the length of service, and as you know, in our Republic of Belarus the pension is calculated based on the length of service.
                  Questions?!? and should not be ....
                  1. chenia
                    chenia 29 May 2020 15: 21 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Skalendarka
                    Questions?!? and should not be ..


                    And you (RB), that for all the time, until 1991, you had to submit a salary for each month? And then there was an account in the corresponding office.
                    We have (Ukraine). five years (the most profitable) until 2001 (then there was already a general register. and printouts of receipts to the pension fund). But overall experience
      2. Pushkar
        Pushkar 29 May 2020 13: 38 New
        +5
        Quote: Skalendarka
        And what service can an conscript have?

        This means that the "gubari" were retired last, for example, on December 31 at 23.00.
        1. Sklendarka
          Sklendarka 29 May 2020 14: 44 New
          +1
          Well, there were also demobilizing chords, but about the all-Union construction site of the Dretun test site in the Vitebsk region, many people who write here should be aware of ...
        2. Serg koma
          Serg koma 29 May 2020 16: 10 New
          +2
          Quote: Pushkar
          let's say December 31 at 23.00.

          Ha ha ha laughing At our unit (a separate motor transport battalion) there was a "prison", for minor violations there, even for "hourly" imprisonment. For larger ones already on the "lip". It so happened that he left the "prison" for demobilization wassat . In the WB - 3 JULY, in fact 5 JULY (Order of D.F. Ustinov No. 79 to be dismissed before July 1) belay In part the very first went on a demobilization five days before the expiration of the termination order soldier Either the specifics of the part are to blame, or sloppiness.
      3. fn34440
        fn34440 29 May 2020 14: 00 New
        +2
        I myself went to the commandant patrol from the base of the commandant’s office on CSKA (there was a divorce in Moscow), and I sat on my lip three times and all the time in Mnevniki, they carried me in a parade in fur. factory-carry iron and barrels from those. oil.
        "Paradka, every time I was presented with a new one, younger friends of old-timers from the Asian region of the USSR.
        1. Sklendarka
          Sklendarka 29 May 2020 15: 09 New
          +2
          Stop ..., the commandant patrol consisted of officers and soldiers of the security battalion of the commandant of Moscow., Who was in Lefortovo, it was when I served that he was seconded to this battalion, so I know ...
          He even had the good fortune of communicating with g / l Serykh at that time as the commandant of Moscow ... but this is another topic.
      4. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 29 May 2020 15: 44 New
        +4
        And what service can an conscript have?
        Elementary. The order of the Minister of Defense and the order of the unit commander on dismissal to the reserve are two big differences, the size of which could reach up to five months. Depending on the "heroism" of the "flyer" and the rancor of the commander.
        1. raif
          raif 30 May 2020 14: 06 New
          +1
          this is all due to the lack of knowledge of the legislation by the military. if the order for conscription-dismissal was issued on March 27, this does not mean that everyone will be fired on that day + week, for example. according to the laws that have not changed much in the procedure for calculating the term of conscription since the times of the USSR, the term of service starts from the day of departure from the assembly point of the region - the regional military commissariat. earlier, the term of service went from the date of enrollment in the lists of personnel of a military unit. and the vast majority of the military were dismissed in accordance with the law. the draft usually ended on July 1 in the summer - here's the difference between the signing of an order and the term for the dismissal of a particular soldier. of course, there were exceptions such as "vindictive commanders", service in "hot spots", the arrival of a helicopter to a distant outpost and sea campaigns
    2. Alekseev
      Alekseev 29 May 2020 12: 52 New
      11
      Quote: Ravil_Asnafovich
      Regarding the educational process "lip", really helped

      Not only the guardhouse helps in the educational process, it is just a tool, but a set of effective disciplinary rights for the head.
      And then they entered the arrest on the verdict of the court, which can be in hundreds, if not thousands of kilometers from the unit, well, at least not by the verdict of the Supreme Court.
      The educational process in the troops, first of all, should consist in simple rules. The military officer should really feel on his own skin that for conscientious service he will be good, and for lack of discipline it will be very bad.
      And not reprimand and badge here tools.
      In the army of Makhno, for example, scuffle was actively used to maintain order. To those violators who did not deserve, in the opinion, the Makhnovist execution commanders. Who's upset by reprimand?
      This, of course, is not our method.
      I give an example from life. there was a fact of hazing, a soldier was beaten.
      It is necessary to conduct an investigation. And for this it is necessary to isolate both the suspects and the victim so that there is no pressure on him from the friends of the offenders.
      Where? Does the MO have no answer? Or it is necessary to strengthen educational work, to conduct a conversation, not to report to anyone, otherwise they will say that there were few conversations, com himself. companies and blame, did not overlook, etc. crap. We can. yes
      Disciplinary power must be capable and discipline in units has always been supported not by the courts and the police, but by single-commanding commanders. If the rights of these commanders for one reason or another were curtailed, taken away, then hello, please, the collapse of the army.
      If the contractor is financially dependent, and they are driven to the neck, sometimes without ceremony, the conscript must know firmly that, for example, a reprimand is a week of extra service without cash payments, arrest on guardhouse does not count for three days , and if he was arrested (justifiably, of course) more than three times, but does not pull for a criminal offense, dismissal from the army with a fine and loss of rights.
      Youth from gangs in the army is not needed.
    3. Azis
      Azis 29 May 2020 19: 50 New
      0
      Quote: Ravil_Asnafovich (R)
      the period of arrest was not taken into account in the term
      An arrest for up to 10 days is essentially an administrative arrest. What do these 10 days play in the total period of military service? Do you possibly mean serving a sentence in disciplinary units for criminal offenses? This time is really not counted as a service in the sun.
      1. Ponchik78
        Ponchik78 30 May 2020 14: 24 New
        0
        Well, 10 days of course a trifle. But in my battalion I served a year older at the call of one warrior nicknamed Halvah. So he had 156 (!) Day lips. Conducted))) He was lucky. About two months after his demobilization, the guardhouse day was not included in the service life.
  3. Sklendarka
    Sklendarka 29 May 2020 11: 58 New
    +6
    She is different lip ..
    You can relax on one, on the other ... and you don’t want to remember.
    1. ccsr
      ccsr 29 May 2020 12: 31 New
      +6
      Quote: Skalendarka
      on the other ... and I don’t want to remember.

      There was such a guardhouse in the 3rd brigade of the Special Forces, where they were sent to re-educate various scumbags from the 2 Guards. It was possible to get there only with the permission of the brigade commander, who sometimes allowed to use it for the re-education of military personnel of other parts. The results were impressive - no one who visited that lip once, has never been to a guardhouse anymore, and this indicates the educational value of this attribute of military service.
      1. tatarin1972
        tatarin1972 30 May 2020 16: 48 New
        +1
        We had such a "Lip", a re-education Lip of the Northern Fleet, 61st Marine Brigade, Sputnik settlement! Beginning lip. Captain Krivenko was "rich"! Whoever was not brought for re-education, not only naval, border guards, boots! For the "stray" there was even a book of complaints and suggestions, in which they left their responses: "I have no complaints and suggestions, thanks for the upbringing and maintenance", signature, number.
        1. ccsr
          ccsr 30 May 2020 18: 11 New
          +1
          Quote: tatarin1972
          "I have no complaints or suggestions, thanks for the upbringing and maintenance", signature, number.

          I myself somehow studied such a book when the next inspection of the brigade was carried out, and I know what you are writing about:
          http://zapravdu.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2561&start=80
          1. tatarin1972
            tatarin1972 31 May 2020 00: 08 New
            0
            Yes, about drill. The head of the lip, at one time, spent two years "behind the river", so that the drill of those serving sentences was to study the drill of the Afghan army. From the outside it looked amusing, turns in a jump, but our head lip had such a quirk!
    2. carstorm 11
      carstorm 11 29 May 2020 12: 42 New
      +2
      to rest?) this is not a punishment then sorry leave. on the lip you need to ensure that you would not want to go there anymore. we did just the sailors were in our garrison and ours were with the sailors) nobody wanted to get there again)
      1. Sklendarka
        Sklendarka 29 May 2020 13: 35 New
        +2
        Yes, I almost got on the "lip" and on vacation.
        I went to get registered on arrival at the commandant’s office, but the captain didn’t like my uniform.
        I was announced a vacation after Berezina2 and I was wearing what I was in and rushed home ... And since we were loaned from the WMO we were given p / w, white sheepskin coats, etc.
        For a long time I proved that Rodina put me on in this form, and the commandant of Moscow g / l Serykh personally checked my appearance, but marched for two hours on a parade ground at Minsk, 5 Bakunin ...
    3. BARKAS
      BARKAS 29 May 2020 12: 55 New
      +3
      The lip is different and apparently the best was with us all the time while I served, it was under constant repair and reconstruction.
    4. Serg koma
      Serg koma 29 May 2020 16: 22 New
      +3
      Quote: Skalendarka
      She is different lip ..
      You can relax on one, on the other ... and you don’t want to remember.

      Wake up at 06:00, to 07:30 "physical exercise" - winding circles in "orbit" with "flashes". To stimulate the running process (I served in KSAVO, it was hot there even at night) the command sounded - "The last day of the DP!", Few people wanted to be the last - the running pace was decent wassat
      Now I would have died after the first fifteen minutes of such a charge, but before they only became healthier "- endure all the hardships and deprivations of military service, do not spare your blood and life itself ...." laughing
      1. Sklendarka
        Sklendarka 29 May 2020 16: 36 New
        +2
        Balashiha
        - 6/00 heights
        -6/00: 7/00 in the corridor at a stand quietly
        -7/05: 7/10 breakfast (with a froth.
        Then an hour of fizuha, two drill ...
        -13/00: 13/05 lunch (with pool of heat)
        Two fieuha, an hour drill until 19/00
        19/00: 19/05 dinner (with a rattle cake)
        There is an hour of physical training, an hour of marching, from 21/00 to 22/00 the corridor along the counter ,, smtrno "
  4. Fitter65
    Fitter65 29 May 2020 12: 05 New
    +4
    The famous “lips” were feared by many military personnel. And many had a chance to visit her.

    I honestly was not very afraid. laughing Almost twice a month, without fail, throughout my studies at the Novoseletsk school of ensigns, I went to the garrison guardhouse-Vyvodny. laughing good
    1. Doliva63
      Doliva63 29 May 2020 20: 34 New
      0
      Quote: Fitter65
      The famous “lips” were feared by many military personnel. And many had a chance to visit her.

      I honestly was not very afraid. laughing Almost twice a month, without fail, throughout my studies at the Novoseletsk school of ensigns, I went to the garrison guardhouse-Vyvodny. laughing good

      Novoselitsy is not where "whoever does not die in Novoselitsy, he is not afraid of Buchenwald"?
      1. Fitter65
        Fitter65 30 May 2020 01: 46 New
        +1
        Quote: Doliva63
        Novoselitsy is not where "whoever does not die in Novoselitsy is not afraid of Buchenwald"

        The same ShMAS under Novgorod the Great ...
        1. Doliva63
          Doliva63 30 May 2020 19: 16 New
          0
          Quote: Fitter65
          Quote: Doliva63
          Novoselitsy is not where "whoever does not die in Novoselitsy is not afraid of Buchenwald"

          The same ShMAS under Novgorod the Great ...

          drinks I studied there at the Mace or Everest, I do not remember already. drinks Autumn-winter of the 81st. drinks
          1. Fitter65
            Fitter65 31 May 2020 01: 34 New
            +1
            Quote: Doliva63
            I studied there at the Mace or Everest, I do not remember already. Autumn-winter of the 81st.

            And I was the ensign in the summer of 1985 anniversary issue. drinks drinks
  5. Free wind
    Free wind 29 May 2020 12: 09 New
    +1
    I remember the kichmans were mostly "Ukrainians", this did not really raise the friendship of peoples. The attitude towards quiche is ambivalent, it seems that there is nothing to plant for, and at the same time it is necessary to punish. It is interesting to eat kichi abroad. In Israel, let's say.
    1. Andrewgross
      Andrewgross 29 May 2020 12: 29 New
      +4
      "They have a caretaker - a raw foodist. Fuhrer nickname. Himself from Kharkov" (c).
  6. Fitter65
    Fitter65 29 May 2020 12: 09 New
    +3
    By a resolution of the Council, General O. A. Oranovsky, Major General V. N. Vasiliev, Major General F. V. Stepanov and Lieutenant Colonel Kurenius were arrested and detained in the Vyborg guardhouse. August 29, 1917 they were killed by revolutionary soldiers
    Is there also Lenin and the bloody Bolsheviks with their "Red Terror"?
    1. carstorm 11
      carstorm 11 29 May 2020 12: 28 New
      +1
      who? General Oranovsky awarded with golden weapons? even Shaposhnikov wrote about him in his memoirs. Years passed ... Oranovsky died long ago. And now, returning to the identity of Oranovsky, I want to say a good word about him. As the head of the division, Oranovsky always took responsibility for the decisions made, taught the division and, it must be said, really made a good combat formation out of it; during the war Novikov already reaped the fruits of the work of this compound, who considered himself almost a Russian Murat. As an officer of the General Staff, Oranovsky was active, experienced, tactful. He instilled these qualities in me too. True, he cannot be called a “father-commander”, as was understood in the Russian army, that is, a commander who sometimes could in a friendly way pat on the shoulder of a soldier. Was this the dignity of a commander? No and no. The soldier always figured out who the real commander was and who fit in with him. He did not tolerate the latter. Did Oranovsky take care of the soldier? I can rightfully answer that I did not see a more caring boss. why was he killed like a dog? Or maybe Vasiliev George awarded for the First World War to blame for something? Port Arthur defender Stepanov is to blame for something? Then, a crowd of soldiers was taken out of the guardhouse, subjected to bullying and killed (thrown into the bay). Excluded from the lists of those killed on 12.10.1917/XNUMX/XNUMX ..
      1. sabakina
        sabakina 29 May 2020 13: 01 New
        +4
        Quote: carstorm 11
        The soldier always figured out who the real commander was, and who fit in with him. He did not tolerate the latter. Did Oranovsky take care of the soldier? I can rightfully answer that I did not see a more caring boss. why was he killed like a dog?
        How interesting! ... Tell me, maybe you also fought under the leadership of Alexander Nevsky? repeat
        1. carstorm 11
          carstorm 11 29 May 2020 13: 31 New
          -1
          these are Shaposhnikov’s memoirs. what have I to do with it and when? read carefully.
          1. sabakina
            sabakina 29 May 2020 13: 38 New
            +4
            To understand that these are Shaposhnikov’s memoirs, one must at least somehow denote this. You wrote as in the first person. You have to be more careful, more thorough!
      2. Senior seaman
        Senior seaman 29 May 2020 14: 50 New
        +1
        Quote: carstorm 11
        Port Arthur defender Stepanov is to blame for something?

        I'm sorry, what kind of Stepanov are you talking about?
      3. Fitter65
        Fitter65 29 May 2020 16: 12 New
        +7
        So explain to me where Lenin and the Bolsheviks are, when on August 29, 1917, the Provisional Government headed by Kerensky is in power in Russia! Or is it not worth it? By the way, do not remember order number 1, and the declaration of the rights of a soldier is also the Bolsheviks? ..
  7. rocket757
    rocket757 29 May 2020 12: 17 New
    +1
    It was ... in Leningrad. The place is famous, there Chkalov was sitting. Not a resort, but nothing special ... the building is historical, but in Leningrad there are many of them.
    1. Zanika
      Zanika 29 May 2020 13: 46 New
      -4
      Paul, Shaul, etc. , of course they know a lot about army lip and hazing! hi
      In the mid-80s They wrote a lot about the Army, preparing us for the collapse of the USSR!
      Is it starting again now? Already a control shot in the head of Russia will be?
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 29 May 2020 14: 00 New
        -1
        What happened, it was .... but what is and will be is much more important.
      2. Doliva63
        Doliva63 29 May 2020 20: 42 New
        0
        Quote: Zanika
        Paul, Shaul, etc. , of course they know a lot about army lip and hazing! hi
        In the mid-80s They wrote a lot about the Army, preparing us for the collapse of the USSR!
        Is it starting again now? Already a control shot in the head of Russia will be?

        Of course it will be. If someone hoped that with the collapse of the Union, happiness would come, it was a rare fool. Will collapse to the stop. Well, there are jeans and chewing gum, but there are no damned communists laughing
    2. neri73-r
      neri73-r 29 May 2020 15: 00 New
      +1
      Quote: rocket757
      The place is famous, there Chkalov was sitting.

      I do not know about Leningradskaya Bay, but Chkalov was in prison in Bryansk, now SIZO No. 1.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 29 May 2020 15: 11 New
        +1
        Lip, it's not a prison ...
        1. Sklendarka
          Sklendarka 29 May 2020 16: 15 New
          +2
          ,, Who didn’t sit on the “lip," did not serve in the army "/ army wisdom /
  8. sagitch
    sagitch 29 May 2020 12: 33 New
    +3
    Unpleasant memories of the "lip" in the Ufa garrison. The "flyers from the ShMAS" who came on duty scoffed and beat the VVs sitting there, and the next day it was the other way around.
  9. sabakina
    sabakina 29 May 2020 12: 38 New
    0
    Guardhouse of the Vyborg fortress (cafe "on the lip")

    Kostroma, the former building of the guardhouse.
    1. Azis
      Azis 29 May 2020 20: 01 New
      +1
      The Astrakhan Kremlin
      Until the final restoration
      Our time
      The garrison today is naturally not so pretty
  10. AK1972
    AK1972 29 May 2020 12: 44 New
    +5
    My grandmother told me the following story. My grandfather and grandmother are front-line soldiers, my grandfather is a captain - a lieutenant, my grandmother - st-on the 2nd article after the war stayed to live and serve in Odessa. Once, while returning home under the direction of his grandfather, a patrol detained him and gave him lips for three days. He served this three-ruble note, but does not return home. Grandmother began to worry, contacted him (she was a signalman) to her question: "Why are you not at home?" My grandfather replied: "Marusya, there I have three liters of alcohol in my stash, you bring it to me for kitsch. Here the lip is a sidekick, we served as a compulsory term together, so he gave me a week to rest with his authority." So they drunk with their lips for 10 days. By the way, my grandfather's favorite toast for the Day of the Navy was like this: "Let's drink to those who are at sea, on watch and in the guardhouse!"
  11. Lelik76
    Lelik76 29 May 2020 12: 52 New
    +3
    When I was sitting on the lip, Major Tarapat was the chief of the lip. After he dumped home, "normal life" began. The same soldiers from the unit went on guard, to eat, to smoke there was everything in abundance.
    The funniest thing was when one young guard day was guarding us, during the evening examination they found a cartridge in his pocket and he "drove in" to us that evening :-)
    1. neri73-r
      neri73-r 29 May 2020 15: 03 New
      +2
      Quote: Lelik76
      one young guard

      Poor thing, Soviet propaganda about honesty is to blame for everything .... lol But you opened his eyes to the truth! wassat
  12. AB
    AB 29 May 2020 12: 54 New
    +3
    Yeah, there were times ... We in the unit had its own lip, in the annex to the boiler room. Rarely did anyone get into the garrison. So in winter she was wearing a lafa, in one wearable shirt. The barracks in the barracks, and there the tropics. And at the garrison call of 76 from our unit, I felt not bad. The Georgian served there as the foreman, who began the service in my calculation. Upon returning from the lips, the sitters always sent me regards from him.
    1. AK1972
      AK1972 29 May 2020 13: 05 New
      +4
      And our garrison lip was self-heating. Chopping a frozen piece of coal into frost under -40 according to the stories of fighters who have been there is still a pleasure. In addition, not only the gateway was forced to hem, but also the cuff of the sleeves and the tunic on the belt, well ... charter, charter, charter. in free from households. works time - drill.
  13. hohol95
    hohol95 29 May 2020 13: 48 New
    +1
    Dear forum users! Could you tell me which one of you is the name of the American TV series of the 90s about the service of the bugler in Hawaii before the Second World War? I remember very much there was shown the "military prison" in which the main character got for refusing to act in boxing matches "for the honor" of his unit (according to the plot, he was a good boxer). And in a similar way, the unit commander decided to "break off" the obstinate bugler!
    1. AK1972
      AK1972 29 May 2020 13: 56 New
      +4
      Alexey, the film is called From Now and Forever and the book From Now and Forever is by James Jones. To be honest, the film, unlike the book, did not make much of an impression. The book is much stronger. If you haven't read it, I recommend reading it.
      1. hohol95
        hohol95 29 May 2020 14: 00 New
        +1
        Many thanks! There is the 1953 film “From Now and Forever and Eternity” and the 1980 series with the same title “From Now and Forever and Ever!” hi
        1. AK1972
          AK1972 29 May 2020 14: 38 New
          +1
          You are always welcome, namesake. Good weekend!
      2. Sklendarka
        Sklendarka 29 May 2020 15: 29 New
        +2
        The book "Young lions or from here to eternity"?, If you are talking about it, take off my hat - a thing !!!
        1. hohol95
          hohol95 29 May 2020 15: 45 New
          +1
          Thanks, but it turned out to be a series based on the 1951 book by James Jones "From Now and Forever".
          I will try to find the book you have proposed! hi
        2. AK1972
          AK1972 29 May 2020 16: 45 New
          +1
          I took an interest in the book you proposed, the comrade of Skalendark, climbed to search and it turned out that this is another name for the same book by James Jones. So I take off my hat.
          1. Sklendarka
            Sklendarka 29 May 2020 23: 08 New
            +1
            This is exactly what I said, that this is one and the same book, but the classic title ,, Young Lions or From Here and in
            Eternity "; analogue to our, Moment of Truth '(in August 44)' 'seem to have written correctly ...
            1. AK1972
              AK1972 30 May 2020 08: 50 New
              +1
              This is that rare case when I first read the book "The Moment of Truth", and then watched the film "In August 44", and the impressions of the book and the film converged in my head, the actions of the film were shot exactly according to the book, and that's how I imagined all the scenes when I read the book. And of course the magnificent performance of Baluev, Mironov and Galkin. In my opinion, this film is the last cool film about the Great Patriotic War, there is nothing good after that ... and it probably won't be.
              1. Sklendarka
                Sklendarka 30 May 2020 09: 27 New
                +2
                Quote: AK1972
                This is that rare case when I first read the book "The Moment of Truth", and then watched the film "In August 44", and the impressions of the book and the film converged in my head, the actions of the film were shot exactly according to the book, and that's how I imagined all the scenes when I read the book. And of course the magnificent performance of Baluev, Mironov and Galkin. In my opinion, this film is the last cool film about the Great Patriotic War, there is nothing good after that ... and it probably won't be.

                ... and the film is over 20 years old.
                And it looks like `` in the same breath '', apparently because the direct participants in those events were alive. Although Bogomolov asked to remove his last name, as the author of the script, but still look that you read the book and others cannot imagine the main characters. Ptashuk and the Artists have created masterpiece...
  14. tolancop
    tolancop 29 May 2020 13: 56 New
    +8
    The topic is interesting in itself, but, IMHO, is not disclosed. The author only touched a little ....
    And a lot of inaccuracies ...
    ".... most often the clients of" lips ".... were privates and sergeants, but there were also exceptions when" whole colonels "got to the guardhouse. Often, not so much for the purpose of real punishment for a committed act, but in" educational "purpose ...."
    What is the exception? According to the Charter (as far as I remember), guard cells were divided into: for ordinary personnel; sergeants; warrant officers and junior officers. And, alas, it’s already a major, and not that the colonel, the guardhouse under the Charter did not threaten (only house arrest). And the chambers for warrant officers and officers (I don’t remember the division) were locked only at night, and during the day they should not be locked.
    And to lock the officer in the guardhouse for "educational purposes" - the navel will be untied. Most often they got drunk (the patrol brought them in) and the commandant of the garrison imposed the punishment.
    "... There was no concept of a" military prison "in the USSR and in Russia: the military who committed offenses and crimes could either be arrested and placed in custody in the guardhouse, or sent to a disciplinary battalion (privates and sergeants), or after a court verdict dismiss from military service and send to an ordinary "civilian" correctional institution .... "
    Again, a slight inaccuracy: In the USSR, a soldier was sent to the disciplinary battalion only by the sentence of the tribunal and nothing else.

    I fully agree with the fact that the Disciplinary Charter in the post-Soviet era in relation to guardhouses was completely spoiled for the sake of political conjuncture. The "reformers" have done a lot ... a lot ... we also have to sip it and sip it ...
    1. Sklendarka
      Sklendarka 29 May 2020 15: 36 New
      0
      Yes, you are completely right.
      And as a sergeant alone for three days, surrounded by regulations, it seemed "not sugar"
      I remembered the words read in the Disciplinary Regulations about the diesel engine for the rest of my life- ,, the form wearable ... "
    2. Marine engineer
      Marine engineer 29 May 2020 21: 00 New
      0
      “In the USSR, a soldier was sent to the disciplinary battalion only by the verdict of the tribunal and nothing else.”

      It happened differently in the Tolmachevsky disbat.
  15. Shuttle
    Shuttle 29 May 2020 14: 19 New
    +4
    In 87-88, serving as a 1st brigade in a BVI located in Minsk (microdistrict Uruchye), many conscripts of the brigade visited a guard on guard guarding the military battalion during work during the day. I don’t know how the Terigors are in the correctional unit, but such a guard raises discipline at the incredible level of the guard. Much more effective than even a guardhouse. Personally verified!
  16. cost
    cost 29 May 2020 14: 25 New
    +2
    Guardhouses initially meant the main guard. The guardhouse (from the German Hauptwache, literally - the main guard), later in the Russian army began to mean a guardhouse, a place for placing guard personnel, appeared in Russia in 1707, when Peter I established military garrisons and commandant's offices. The first guardhouse was built in St. Petersburg on Sennaya Square. Since the separation of the main guard is an exciting sight, the guard house was also located on the main squares of the cities of the Russian Empire, and the famous architects were engaged in the design and construction of these buildings.


  17. Lelik76
    Lelik76 29 May 2020 14: 25 New
    +2
    Quote: tolancop

    What is the exception? According to the Charter (as far as I remember), guard cells were divided into: for ordinary personnel; sergeants; warrant officers and junior officers. And, alas, it’s already a major, and not that the colonel, the guardhouse under the Charter did not threaten (only house arrest). And the chambers for warrant officers and officers (I don’t remember the division) were locked only at night, and during the day they should not be locked.
    And to lock the officer in the guardhouse for "educational purposes" - the navel will be untied. Most often they got drunk (the patrol brought them in) and the commandant of the garrison imposed the punishment.
    [

    We had it in Pure Keys, a separate soldier’s cell, one officer’s cell, a loner and a dining room. They brought me to the officer’s ensign of the drunk during my sitting and in the morning he was already released by the chief.
  18. cost
    cost 29 May 2020 14: 27 New
    0
    In the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation guardhouses are garrison (general camp) and military. On July 4, 2002, amendments were made to the charter of the internal and guard service of the Armed Forces of Russia, abolishing the punishment in the form of placement in a guardhouse. On November 15, 2006, the State Duma adopted a law restoring guardhouses in the Armed Forces. On December 2, 2006, Russian President Vladimir V. Putin signed a law establishing the procedure for the use of disciplinary arrest by military courts against military personnel. The law entered into force on January 1, 2007. In accordance with it, a soldier may be subjected to disciplinary arrest solely by decision of the military tribunal of the appropriate instance for unauthorized abandonment of a unit, violation of the rules for handling weapons, and the performance of military duties while intoxicated or intoxicated. The decision on the arrest will be the responsibility of the garrison courts. The deadline for staying at the guardhouse is 45 days. The period of serving a sentence at a guardhouse is not included in the total period of service.
    As of January 1, 2015, 15 garrison guardhouses operate in the Russian Armed Forces.
  19. SaLaR
    SaLaR 29 May 2020 16: 14 New
    +1
    he served in Maryina Gorka in the 5th separate brigade of the Special Forces ... getting on the lip was considered how to get a vacation))) the lip was in the next tank division ... we were very respected there) a couple of people from the battalion had a rest there so really everyone wanted to get there. .day do not do a damn thing .. around you almost blow off the dust .. no problems with alcohol ..)))
  20. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 29 May 2020 16: 20 New
    0
    What to do with a soldier who voluntarily left the unit and came intoxicated? Or cursing the commander with abusive words?
    Based on these questions, one gets the impression that the author has rather vague ideas about the army. About the history of preventive and educational "work" in units and subdivisions of the SA - too.
    1. Sklendarka
      Sklendarka 29 May 2020 17: 06 New
      +1
      Let me tell you a story:
      - I seemed to be on vacation in February. I find out that my brother has a wedding on April 1. It’s clear that I’m flying, because someone needs to defend his homeland. Okay, I think I need a strategic debut idea and began to hatchet.
      The plan was - I break into a self-propelled vehicle, I go home, two days at the wedding, then I go to the commandant's office, at public expense delivery to the military unit, then, "lip" well, then, as always, they cut off the stripes and, in a day, on the belt " But the plan failed, the uncle wrote a letter addressed to the unit commander with a request ... In short, they didn’t let go home, and the turnout was ruined ...
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 29 May 2020 17: 13 New
        +1
        Yeah, similar schemes and 15 years after your demobilization did not roll laughing
        1. Sklendarka
          Sklendarka 29 May 2020 18: 13 New
          0
          I wonder why!
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 29 May 2020 18: 31 New
            +1
            Because, all such schemes, originating in the inflamed soldier's brain, the junior officers "passed" in the first year of college, in the fourth, learned to cut off "at once", training in the junior courses.
            1. Doliva63
              Doliva63 29 May 2020 20: 58 New
              +1
              Quote: 3x3zsave
              Because, all such schemes, originating in the inflamed soldier's brain, the junior officers "passed" in the first year of college, in the fourth, learned to cut off "at once", training in the junior courses.

              In what years did the 4th year students train for the younger ones? What kind of perversion is this? In my time (80s), they "trained" in the following way: 2nd year - zakkomzvod in the troops, 3rd - tank platoon commander in the troops, 4th - zakkomroty in the troops. In the school itself, starting from the third year, relations of the "older brother" type with the younger courses, and in the fourth, practically did not intersect. Or was I lucky with the school? laughing drinks
            2. Sklendarka
              Sklendarka 29 May 2020 22: 27 New
              0
              You know, in the city of temptations (Moscow), a two-day self-propelled gun was not uncommon and not a single father / commander knew where to look for a fighter. The sergeant staff of the platoon and the assembly was going to set the task - you have 4/5 hours, dismissal and God forbid the self-propelled gun will not be in the position ...
              They found it, brought it - after all, nobody wanted to go to the diesel engine ...
              1. Kushka
                Kushka 29 May 2020 23: 28 New
                0
                In Kaliningrad, the sailor Timokha (Siberian, at least 1m 60 cm.)
                when technology went on a business trip. In that military unit, as if fitted
                clung to a robe in a boiler room and dumped in a self-propelled gun. Rob was found
                and there is a military ID. The local commander, of course, on himself,
                I didn’t take (you never know) and made a noise. Ours caused
                starling, foreman and us two sailors. He said to turn out the village
                inside out, a guy to find and drag. There will be a local commandant’s office,
                will go to disbat, all fate is awry. His mother trusted me
                here I will flog it - around arsh. Arrived in the Urals - Fisherman's Day,
                in every shack everything is in smoke from 10 to 80. Starley took the robe
                and everyone on the street pokes a military ticket - have not you seen? And they are all from him.
                The foreman tells him that you scare people, go better around the unit
                cut the circles, suddenly he will climb back, there he and the khan. And he tells us
                look for girls. They went over a dozen, and the last foreman of the ISA
                "bred" - you say the sailor spends the night? How dare you, I'm not like that!
                Who told you that? Yes, Natasha, through two houses, says that
                every night different sailors spend the night with you. Oh, she’s awesome, but she herself ..
                and away we go - in two minutes I laid out with whom I was dancing, whom I was pinching,
                and where he spent the night. We grabbed Timokha, picked up a starling and rushed off.
                Since Timokha will be sent as pine nuts, he is always the most
                slept off.
  21. Serg koma
    Serg koma 29 May 2020 16: 31 New
    +3
    Quote: carstorm 11
    Oranovsky was active, experienced, tactful. He instilled these qualities in me too..

    Vladimir Aloizievich Oranovsky (January 7, 1866 - August 29, 1917) What years did you serve ???
  22. Serg koma
    Serg koma 29 May 2020 16: 41 New
    +2
    Quote: Rich
    Guardhouses
    [/ Center]

    By the way, one of the oldest buildings in Omsk fortress was laid down in 1781. (In 1765, engineer Malmö developed a fortress project and sent it to St. Petersburg, and in the spring of 1768, construction work began.)
    KRYACHKOV Andrey Dmitrievich (November 24, 1876, the village of Vakharevo, Yaroslavl province - August 25, 1950, Sochi), specialist in the field of architectural science, practice, education in Siberia, Doctor of Technical Sciences (1942), professor (1921).) Writes in the Siberian Encyclopedia: “ Omsk guardhouse with the surrounding buildings and the gates captivates with a wealth of artistic imagination, a peculiar splendor of forms and thoroughness of work».
  23. faterdom
    faterdom 29 May 2020 18: 13 New
    +4
    In Soviet times, placement in custody in a guardhouse became the main method of punishing guilty servicemen of any rank. Of course, most often the clients of the "lip" (as the Russian military Russified the "guardhouse" to simplify the term) were privates and sergeants, but there were exceptions when "whole colonels" got to the guardhouse.

    Let me clarify. For senior officers, such a disciplinary measure as arrest with detention on guardhouse was not imposed. From major and up. Although the colonels could also get there, as a rule as a result of some scandalous brawl, detention until the garrison commandant (or even the garrison commander) finds out and proceeds, because the rank of commandant could be lower than the rank of detainees). But, formally, this was not an arrest, it was simply an analogue of the KVZ (cameras of temporary detainees at the regional police department). Although cameras for this could be at the commandant’s office directly. Once, the nachkar stepped on his lip, and was pleasantly surprised at the fullness of the officer’s premises - 8 people with a colonel at the head. Usually - no one, from time to time some ensign was sticking out, and here - here you are! It turned out that the entire Tu-95 crew was washing someone's rank in the tavern, they went beyond the bounds of decency in this indecent place, and two beautiful lanterns had arrived for admonition to the commandant’s admonition. But no one began to arrest them (such a serious plane entirely ???), they released them in the morning, although I have no doubt that they got their melons to the fullest.
    In 2002, military personnel began to be placed in guardhouses, in relation to which investigative actions were carried out.

    I assure you, those under investigation, were sent to guardhouses before being sent to the disbath and during the Soviet era, and from there they were sent by sentence, either to the disbat or to the civil correctional system - which the court would award.
    1. RoTTor
      RoTTor 30 May 2020 00: 14 New
      0
      On me, on the famous Kiev Bay, where we regularly went on guard, in 1969 I was sitting with a whole lieutenant colonel from the Air Defense Forces Air Defense Command, and in the form of naval aviation. He sat awaiting trial. For which I do not remember, but I remember the last name.
      I won’t call, it’s true and there isn’t
  24. tolancop
    tolancop 29 May 2020 20: 11 New
    0
    Quote: Skalendarka
    Let me tell you a story:
    - I seemed to be on vacation in February. I find out that my brother has a wedding on April 1. It’s clear that I’m flying, because someone needs to defend his homeland. Okay, I think I need a strategic debut idea and began to hatchet.
    The plan was - I break into a self-propelled vehicle, I go home, two days at the wedding, then I go to the commandant's office, at public expense delivery to the military unit, then, "lip" well, then, as always, they cut off the stripes and, in a day, on the belt " But the plan failed, the uncle wrote a letter addressed to the unit commander with a request ... In short, they didn’t let go home, and the turnout was ruined ...

    Storyteller!!! That way since 1983 for self-propelled (unauthorized abandonment of a part), the luminary is not a guardhouse, but at least a disbat !!! And that's for sure, since it was precisely in 1983 under Andropov that the tightening of nuts began and all responsibility of the military personnel was strengthened ... T.ch. self-propelled guns in THIS YEAR received real terms if the command of the unit could not conceal the fact of autonomy. It is unlikely that the system was weakened later.
    1. Sklendarka
      Sklendarka 29 May 2020 22: 49 New
      +1
      No fairy tales. Read the Disciplinary Charter .... leaving the location of a military unit for more than THREE days is desertion ... and up to three days a self-propelled gun and nothing more ...
  25. vladcub
    vladcub 29 May 2020 20: 46 New
    0
    The Lord had mercy on me and the "lip" passed by, but the kent was unlucky: the "black" ribs broke
  26. Doliva63
    Doliva63 29 May 2020 21: 04 New
    +1
    Lip - here you can argue for a long time, but you can’t argue that it was a real measure.
  27. Tavrik
    Tavrik 29 May 2020 21: 11 New
    +3
    Quote: faterdom
    I assure you, those under investigation, were sent to guardhouses before being sent to the disbath and during the Soviet era, and from there they were sent by sentence, either to the disbat or to the civil correctional system - which the court would award.

    I confirm. Always when taking up the guard on Sadovaya, in St. Petersburg, they specified how many convicts and persons under investigation were in "solitary confinement". Then on the general cameras as many as. It was funny when our classmates were on the plank beds there. And the foreman of the guardhouse, midshipman "cockroach" ... Many will not forget him. The prisoners were not mocked, but everything was very strict.
    1. Blue fox
      Blue fox 31 May 2020 00: 31 New
      0
      Exactly, there was a "Cockroach" :)) In 2001, being a separate commander, I went there to take my "guard" - crucified ... yaya. The medical assistant wrapped us up because of the temperature of the “candidate”. Then I got the coursework from the nachfak, the place on the lip was generously paid for with a barrel of paint :))
      1. ccsr
        ccsr 31 May 2020 11: 11 New
        +2
        Quote: Blue Fox
        The medical assistant wrapped us up because of the temperature of the “candidate”. Then I got the coursework from the nachfak, the place on the lip was generously paid for with a barrel of paint :))

        By the way, they really couldn’t always take the arrested person to a guardhouse, that's why there was such a funny story that I heard from a colleague:
        .... In this situation, Lieutenant G.P. two options were drawn and both were not very good, and to be precise, they were crappy. Returning with a taxable person to the unit meant a major nuisance and official punishment. The second way - leading the drunk to the place of serving the sentence seems to be logical, but from the point of view of the chief of the lip, who saw what the soldier was arrested for and in what condition he arrived, also did not promise anything good. If he scribbles a report to the commandant, who informs the head of the garrison accordingly, then the service prospects will melt in the haze of the Kerch Strait and it is not yet known how this will turn out for the brigade: getting into the order of the district’s chief of staff is unpleasant (if you wish, this can be arranged through the district’s military service - there such things are only welcome). But there was nowhere to retreat, and he decided to silently go towards his fate ....

        http://zapravdu.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2561&start=110
  28. Tavrik
    Tavrik 29 May 2020 21: 22 New
    +2
    In general, to maintain discipline and "revive" the personnel, a "lip" should be in each unit or in a military town, where there are several small units. And send there by order of the unit commander, according to the report of the unit commander, and not the court. Well, to comply with the rule of law, you can endorse the order by the lawyer of the unit. Moreover, the time spent on the "lip" during the service should not be included. He served, for example, in two visits two weeks - resigned two weeks later.
    1. Kushka
      Kushka 29 May 2020 23: 42 New
      0
      We have gathered about a dozen or two - foreman
      fought with grandfathers. He won that some DMB already
      at the end of June (excellent students on May 2 left). By the end
      May admiral skidded - as I saw - patlaty, in
      panties and vests in complete idleness. Screaming
      so that the cormorants from the garbage barge were blown away
      young !!!!, combat readiness !!! 48 hours!!! After each
      secured the officer and at 48 hours each his own in
      the carriage landed and reported.
  29. Gate68
    Gate68 29 May 2020 21: 55 New
    +1
    11 days on the lip in Termez in 88. Still unforgettable sensations. Drill in the courtyard under the scorching sun. Crowded stuffy chambers.
  30. faterdom
    faterdom 29 May 2020 22: 05 New
    +1
    Quote: Tavrik
    And send there by order of the unit commander, according to the report of the unit commander, not the court

    Yes, it was all long ago that fathers and grandfathers (not grandfathers !!!) invented: "A note of arrest," on the back of the doctor's signature that he was healthy and when he was washed in the bath. Part print. The company commander announced that a superior superior could not cancel, except to impose a stricter penalty. For example, the company commander gave three, but the division commander came and rated the act at ten. But that the general came and said to forgive the zadanets - it could not be, and no one did that.
    1. Sklendarka
      Sklendarka 29 May 2020 22: 53 New
      +1
      Quote: faterdom
      Quote: Tavrik
      And send there by order of the unit commander, according to the report of the unit commander, not the court

      Yes, it was all long ago that fathers and grandfathers (not grandfathers !!!) invented: "A note of arrest," on the back of the doctor's signature that he was healthy and when he was washed in the bath. Part print. The company commander announced that a superior superior could not cancel, except to impose a stricter penalty. For example, the company commander gave three, but the division commander came and rated the act at ten. But that the general came and said to forgive the zadanets - it could not be, and no one did that.

      Exactly so ... A, the arrest note ", if it was possible to get it, was" the cherry on the cake "in the demobilization album.
  31. RoTTor
    RoTTor 30 May 2020 00: 07 New
    0
    On the lip in the largest city there were a maximum of 70-80 seats for rank and file sergeants in the entire garrison, and there were only a dozen military schools.
    However, the record of the punishment in the form of "arrest with maintenance in the guardhouse" for the cadets was worse than the arrest itself - it could crawl out sideways during distribution, if there was no paw.
    The brevity of the arrest was fully compensated by real bullying. Impressions lasted forever

    The rights of arresting commanders were truncated somewhere in the mid-70s when they introduced the new Disciplinary Charter of the USSR Armed Forces, before that the company gave 5 days, and the regimental commander, part commander - 15 days
  32. silberwolf88
    silberwolf88 30 May 2020 10: 48 New
    +3
    As a cadet of a military school, a couple of times in 5 years he was sitting on a garrison guardhouse (5 and 7 + 1 days) during the Soviet era ... the commandant is certainly a personality and very tough ... BUT I’m about otherwise
    they were conscripted into the army ... the level of conscience (and also the caste length of service ... an elephant or grandfather, fellowship, etc.) has a dramatic effect on discipline ... you can of course punish promptly (well, for example, give in the "snout" on the case .. . but that's why I need it to the officer ...
    In the army of 40-60 there were several types of guardhouses ... including in a punishment cell for bread and water for up to 15 days and without walks (this had to be earned on an increasing basis) after such a resort (or you could fly into a repeat) and by the accumulation of days per year, they could determine the disbath for six months ... then in the 70s they softened ... and the guardhouse itself (well, if not for the fantasies of the commandant service) became not very difficult ... that’s the violence went to the level commanders of different levels in order to maintain a certain balance of discipline and fulfill the tasks of the unit / division
    It was exclusively everyone who decided how ... somewhere the "grandfathers" ruled the ball ... and somewhere the COMMANDER ... will be as I said ... I don't want to tell different experiences ... but in one of the garrisons next to ours a kilometer away were the construction battalions and their guardhouse with the red-headed racers ... I identified the most notorious (in increasing order) there ... and this option was sobering (legends spread quickly) ... one commander's (I mean the regiment) pet going to the first dispatch .. .caught between the regiment (departed with a prescription) and the division's assembly point (for export to civilization for trains) and determined for five days ... how happy they were on the lip ... a gorgeous parade and a full set of badges as trophies ... for the vileness there The commandant threw him five more ... oh, and it helped me for a long time (rumors spread quickly)
    The principle was always simple ... nothing personal ... only for the cause and within the limits of the charter ...
    1. Sklendarka
      Sklendarka 30 May 2020 15: 54 New
      +1
      Everything is correct ... nothing personal and only according to the Charter. It is pleasant to hear the person who is in the know (rumors quickly spread)
      Sincerely ...
  33. tolancop
    tolancop 30 May 2020 20: 45 New
    0
    Quote: RoTTor
    .... The rights of arresting commanders were truncated somewhere in the mid-70s, when they introduced the new Disciplinary Charter of the USSR Armed Forces, before that the company gave 5 days, and the regimental commander, part commander - 15 days

    There was not only a change in terms of detention at the guardhouse (up to 10 days, as far as I remember), many things were thrown out ... I did not find the old Disciplinary Rules, but I had conversations with the old officers. Their opinion: DU spoiled, removing a number of punishments ... And, alas, there were many reasons to agree with them. I, as a sergeant, had the right to declare to a negligent couple of outfits out of turn ... and that’s it. Chickens laugh, since we did not bask in the sun without outfits, but tumbled from morning to late evening, often including weekends. T.ch. outfit that is not outfit, there was not much difference. True, for a number of reasons, our company practically did not go to the most nasty outfits (in the kitchen and on guard).
    1. ccsr
      ccsr 31 May 2020 11: 18 New
      +2
      Quote: tolancop
      I did not find the old Disciplinary Rules, but I had conversations with the old officers regarding him. Their opinion: DU spoiled by removing a number of punishments ...

      I found him, and I can say that really changes in disciplinary practice have harmed our armed forces. But this was not the initiative of the military - they were imposed on us by the fools from the top party leadership, and those who served these innovations did not understand and disapprove. And another big mistake was the draft of those who had a canceled conviction for petty crimes, although of course there were few, but this contingent only harmed the service.