Military Review

How to discourage “samurai” from talking about revenge on the Kuril Islands: reflections on the military component

178
How to discourage “samurai” from talking about revenge on the Kuril Islands: reflections on the military component

The last few days I have been “living” inside the documentary film “Ordinary Fascism” by Mikhail Romm. No, I do not study the problems of the spread of fascism in Europe or elsewhere. Even today, I am not interested in the internal essence of this phenomenon.


The feeling of a sudden move to Italy or Germany in the 30s arose even after watching rallies dedicated to the Day of the Northern Territories, which is celebrated in Japan annually on February 7.

The feeling of plagiarism of Mikhail Romm’s shots may have come from my lack of knowledge of the Japanese language. Looking through the speeches of supporters of the idea of ​​the return of the Kuril Islands, probably from their emotionality, one involuntarily recalls the Duce and the Fuhrer at the time of their highest popularity. 

To prevent the wound from healing 


You are probably waiting for a traditional story about who and when discovered the Kuril Islands, where did the Ainu and others, many times voiced, stories about the Kuril Islands. Alas, I will disappoint. I’ll disappoint just because there is so much written about it that any reader who is interested can easily get an answer to any question in this region.

It’s always funny for me to read materials about who owned what in ancient times and why today it is necessary to remember this. Imagine the Greeks who claim to be in Ancient Greece? Or Italians - descendants of the Roman Empire. I’m talking about the Mongols and the Golden Horde and I don’t want to remember.

Because the world is changing, that any state, at all times, has experienced all the events that each of us lives in his short life. Birth, formation, flowering, stability, withering and death. The death of a state is always associated with the birth of a new or new country.

Interest in Japan and the Kuril Islands arose ... after the statement of the government of that country about the beginning of the development of hypersonic weapons. In addition, the few, but really interesting reports about increasing contacts between the Japanese and the US military began to appear in the press.

From American sources, some details about the rocket under development became known. In particular, the estimated firing range is 1300 kilometers. It is clear that the Americans reported this for one purpose - to scare China. US-PRC relations are more tense than ever.

I was interested in this message somewhat on the other hand. 1300 kilometers is a sufficient range for a threat to our Far East, the Kuril Islands and Sakhalin in particular. The appearance of such weapons, if ignored on our part, really changes the balance of power in the region. And this is where the need arises for the Japanese government to support the movement for the return of the so-called northern territories.

Tired of it. Close the question once and for all


It is clear that the Japanese started talking about new weapons for a reason. The confrontation with China and North Korea, as it turned out, costs quite a lot of money. The years when the country hardly thought about its own defense are a thing of the past. The US requires payment of its own services for the protection and defense of the Japanese islands. And their own army has become a burden for the state budget.

What about us? Will we “answer the calls” again? What for? Everyone understands that such a path leads to a dead end. We simply cannot physically provide the defense of our own territories. We will not soon “catch up and overtake” the Japanese Navy. And if you look objectively, then to the Japanese the fleet you can safely add American in this region. In this case, instead of "not soon" is to write "never."

In addition, the problem of population shortage has been and remains. Many talk about the relevance of this problem, but there has been no solution at the state level either. Eastern, Trans-Ural regions are slowly dying. The Far East in this respect is not particularly different from the rest, the "Asian" part of Russia. 

Is it possible to convince the Japanese to close the "problem of the northern territories" for a long time or forever?

Any island state has an advantage when defending its own territory in a classic, "ground" war. The sea or ocean always becomes the defenders' helpers. Agree, delivering personnel and equipment by sea is quite burdensome. Huge losses during such transportation are inevitable. And the navy in the island states is one of the strengths.

Today, the state's insular position has turned from an element of strengthening its defense capability to an element of vulnerability. Destroy a port or even an entire seaside city today is not a problem for some countries. This does not require any armada of ships or aircraft. 

The situation with the fleet is exactly the same. The fact that for many decades it was the pride of the Americans, I mean aircraft carriers, today are just ordinary, very convenient targets. It is almost impossible to ensure their complete safety in coastal waters. 

Aviation? Only a few states of the world can successfully deal with enemy aircraft today. Just because bombers strike, being outside the range of ship or coastal air defense. 

You can continue to talk about defense and attack for a long time. But back to our topic. How to discourage “samurai” from talking about revenge and return of territories. There is no need to invent a recipe. Anyone who has ever practiced martial arts knows him well.

So, the Kuril Islands must be reliably protected. They are so protected as to completely eliminate the landing or destruction from the air. Hence, the most advanced air defense and missile defense systems are needed. Defense must be echeloned. 

Further. The coastline is fortified with systems that would be effective against any enemy ships at all distances. Something similar now exists in Crimea. Enemy ships should not even try to approach Russian shores.

What happens after blocking an enemy attack in combat? And what is written above is just the same protection unit. And then you strike, the purpose of which is to eliminate the enemy's advantages. Simply put, Russia must have the forces that would ensure the destruction of the enemy fleet in our waters.

Missile boats and diesel submarines are quite suitable for such a "heart-to-heart talk". Well armed and inconspicuous for the enemy, they can bring the fleet a lot of problems. Even large warships. Not to mention the auxiliary fleet. 

Probably the most long-awaited part of the fight remains. Shout from the judge: - Ippon! Clear victory. And such a victory requires a serious attack. This is where nuclear submarine missile carriers, cruisers, destroyers, anti-submarine and landing ships of the 1st rank become necessary. Here our strategic bombers and cover aviation will be needed.

Instead of deducing


Of course, the drawn picture is perfect. In battle, what the commander plans is not always happening. Moreover, most often it happens a little differently. But our task today is not to win the war, and de jure it continues. Despite the absence of a peace treaty, today there is no “hot” war between Russia and Japan, but territorial claims remain. The declaration of October 19.10.1956, XNUMX helped to stabilize our relations in many ways. Although the uncompromisingness of the Japanese led to the fact that the declaration was forgotten.

By the way, it was there that the transfer of Shikotan (in the text - Sikotan) and the group of Habomai islands was declared. But only after signing the peace treaty. I recall the explanation of N.S. Khrushchev on this issue:

We believed that such a concession was not of particular importance to the USSR. There are desert islands that were used only by fishermen and the military. These islands also have no defense significance. But the friendship that we wanted to win from the Japanese people would have tremendous significance. Therefore, territorial concessions would more than be blocked by the new relations that would have developed between the peoples of the Soviet Union and Japan.

Today, Japan, with all due respect to the Japanese people, is just one of the dogs in the American pack. As long as the country remains occupied by the United States, the Japanese will be forced to fulfill the will of their masters, which means it is useless to appeal to common sense, logic or history. 

Only instincts remain. In particular, the instinct of self-preservation.
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  1. Crowe
    Crowe 30 May 2020 06: 18 New
    30
    In battle, what the commander plans is not always happening. Moreover, most often it happens a little differently.

    I don’t remember who said: "In terms of order and organization, a real war is remarkably like a brothel on fire."
    And besides the military component, there must be a firm political will of the country's leadership so that no one even thinks of any even the smallest opportunity to take our lands. There are no negotiations, our Kuril Islands. Point. Question is closed.
    1. Insurgent
      Insurgent 30 May 2020 07: 38 New
      11
      How to discourage “samurai” from talking about revenge on the Kuril Islands: reflections on the military component

      One military component? And do you want to "add" economic power to it?

      Otherwise, it can happen as in Russian-Japanese, with a priest Аmpirator ...

      Yesterday, literally on VO there was news about how the Chinese Navy threw out an uninvited US destroyer from its water supply, relying on military power + (infographic, latest data):



      And based on this state of affairs, against the PRC - neither Japan, nor other neighbors who have territorial claims against China - dare to take any steps.

      The same applies to the "hegemon", to whom China has unequivocally hinted ...
      1. Maks1995
        Maks1995 30 May 2020 10: 58 New
        +7
        Spruce found Russia ....
        and so, you are right 100%. The economy is everything.

        And in the article about this, no-no.
        1. nznz
          nznz 31 May 2020 15: 32 New
          +3
          again, you are talking about this .. well, at least the quickest history, remember .. Germany in 191 and the USSR, and so on. not the economy.
          if you have a spirit, an idea and an ideology ... that’s something you need to worry about. and the Kuril Islands defend the cunning in a learned way, having Vladik nearby and everything you need ..
          1. Maks1995
            Maks1995 1 June 2020 00: 04 New
            +1
            Alas, alas.
            Spirit yes, important. France as an example.
            However, the "pure spirit" also showed its inconsistency in the Russian-Japanese one.
            And in the 41m, the USSR still drove out for the production of tanks and aircraft, etc. Moreover, the allies helped.
            But the Kwantung Yap army could not do anything with one spirit.
      2. NordUral
        NordUral 30 May 2020 11: 58 New
        +4
        One military component? And do you want to "add" economic power to it?
        And scientific and technical.
      3. bayard
        bayard 30 May 2020 17: 24 New
        +7
        Quote: Insurgent
        One military component? And do you want to "add" economic power to it?

        The author of the article correctly set priorities. Talking about peace \ friendship \ cooperation \ mutually beneficial trade does not matter in this matter. All that matters is the state’s will to inviolability of borders and the readiness to ensure this inviolability.
        Provide strength.
        Military force.
        And this means having in constant readiness (of varying degrees of readiness) enough forces and means to crush any enemy who encroached on the integrity of the territories and borders of the Russian Federation.
        Are there such forces and means?
        Of course.
        And of course, this is the nuclear potential and their delivery vehicles.
        It cannot be otherwise, it’s not spirits that attack the nuclear superpower (it is precisely with respect to the strategic nuclear forces that Russia is).
        The fleet is good, it is definitely needed, in the proper quantity and quality of warships and all the necessary infrastructure. But the Fleet is being built LONG. And this is the goal for the medium to longer term.
        Aviation?
        Of course. But the reality is that its number will be limited by the number of trained pilots and financial capabilities. As well as the need to restore the entire airdrome infrastructure lost in the post-Soviet years. So there is no reason to count on resolving the issue with non-nuclear aviation actions.
        Do not need .
        The deployment of the Kinzhal hypersonic aeroballistic missiles on the MiG-31 is now beginning in Eastern Siberia. If necessary, they will react quickly and forcefully. If necessary, it will add Long-Range Aviation, carrying out launches over its own territory.
        Japan is VERY vulnerable.
        And she knows that.
        Fukushima is a witness to this.
        You just need to be firm in your relationships and not be shy about your complexes.
        Realize your FORCE.
        Demonstrate your POWER and readiness to apply it.
        I don’t give a damn about all the problems from the height of my nuclear missile potential.
        And do economics. yes
        1. Kisa
          Kisa 30 May 2020 18: 03 New
          +5
          probably even the economy should be put in 1st place. why all this rattling weapons in an empty territory. already a third of the population from Primorye moved to Moscow for permanent residence and Vladik Nakhodka is the mildest climate in the Far East with a warm sea and swimming season, and some kind of zadrischensk like Birobidzhan Blagoveshchensk are completely depressed. .... will you come here? and per hectare ?? and for two ??? How do you see the situation in 20-30 years?
          the author wanted to play in tanks ... I’m changing your patriotic sofa in the Moscow region to mine here on the shore of the Sea of ​​Japan
          1. bayard
            bayard 30 May 2020 20: 06 New
            10
            Quote: kitty
            I change your patriotic sofa in the Moscow region to mine here on the shore of the Sea of ​​Japan

            You won’t change for sure on my sofa; it’s in Donetsk. smile
            Or do we wave it?
            My friends in Primorye, in Vladik, have not seen each other for a long time.
            The issue of economics is to the government. Not even to the president - it does not listen to him. yes Not at all listening. smile Like local officials.
            Sobyanin is generally "handsome". lol
            But Muscovites feel sorry.
            What to do with the economy, finances, etc., I know, believe me, no one will do this.
            They will do something else.
            But there is still hope - she is the last to die.
            Mine is still alive.
            But in the article, the question is just about the power component of resolving the issue (or its closure), which I also have the idea of ​​as a military professional ... Although in the past.
            How are things in the Far East, I also know - after all, I communicate with my friend on Skype almost every day.
            Just DEFENSE - this is defense (in the sense of protecting the State), it should have a place and be regularly attached regardless of the economic condition of the state and political storms. And the economy is part of what the Army protects, and due to what it is contained. There will be no state without the Army, there will be a colony with all the consequences.
            So the business of the Army is to prevent the encroachment of the enemy (and Japan is the enemy, for it has not signed a peace treaty) on its territory, and the state’s business is to maintain its Army and provide everything necessary for this.
            And if you are depressed by your financial and financial situation, then accept sincere sympathy, but believe me, there are worse places in this regard. And believe me, the DNI and LC are just one of these places. They encroach on our land in the same way as the Japanese attack the Kuril Islands, only in our case, there has been a war for 6 years.
            What I sincerely do not wish for you.
            hi
            1. Grits
              Grits 5 June 2020 01: 23 New
              0
              Quote: bayard
              You won’t change for sure on my sofa; it’s in Donetsk. smile
              Or do we wave it?

              In 2014, refugees from LDNR arrived in our small region of Primorye. 42 people. At the moment, there is only one family left. several families moved to Ussuriysk, Artem. the rest all came back. Neither unique nature, nor warm sea, nor mild climate kept them here. Apparently, where the war is going on, they are still more comfortable than in the Far East
              1. bayard
                bayard 5 June 2020 07: 21 New
                0
                In your area, people from the European part take root heavily - everything else, even the local mentality. And the standard of living is low ... In any case, I know this from communicating with friends.
                And another important thing is housing. What is "Russian \ Russian mortgage" with the current level of income of Russians, I hope you are familiar - this is bondage. And people here have apartments, houses.
                House - there is a HOUSE.
                Therefore, over time, yes - people began to return - HAMMERED, and returned home. Russia is not the Soviet Union, where they handed out apartments for free to people, but paid refugees and lifts with material help, and bought things / furniture there at the expense of local authorities and local (receiving) enterprises. There was such a country.
                And such people.
                AND POWER ...
                Under bourgeoisie, everything is different - man to man is a wolf.
                So, having taken a look at alien corners, phoned, found out how the situation was and returned - our rent and communal payments are cheap (compared to Russia and Ukraine), with normal supply, and the head of the family can make money on a rotational basis in neighboring regions of Russia. The main thing is that children are at home.
                Indeed - many have returned.
          2. ammunition
            ammunition 31 May 2020 07: 17 New
            +4
            Quote: kitty
            probably even the economy should be put in 1st place

            Then would Saudi Arabia (GDP - 1868) have to slam Israel (GDP - 337) like a mosquito? so what?
            -------------------
            Regarding the confrontation between China and the United States .. First, evaluate the geopolitical and geostrategic positions of the parties. You will be surprised to see that the US position is exceptionally strong. And China’s position is weak .. constrained .. and has many flaws and weaknesses. The same Japan is only a figure on the world chessboard, and it is ruled by this figure from the USA. itd .. itd .. etc ..
            ----
            Even Taiwan! . it seems to be part of China .. but in fact - a pawn in the hands of the United States, slicing China's straitened position in two.
      4. domokl
        31 May 2020 15: 32 New
        +2
        What is the economic component? How many days, weeks, months, years, decades will it take? Can you imagine the confrontation between the DPRK and the United States in terms of the economic component? What about the USA and North Vietnam? Maybe the Third Reich and the USSR in 1941?
        What is the economic component in the confrontation between LDNR and Ukraine? Transnistria and Moldova?
        In order to effectively develop your own economy, you need to have strong borders that probable opponents are wary of.
        Remember when the last time there was a howl from the Japanese side about the territories? Just when Lavrov proposed a joint economic development of the Kuril and Sakhalin ...
      5. Obliterator
        Obliterator 2 June 2020 19: 37 New
        0
        Quote: Insurgent
        One military component? And do you want to "add" economic power to it?

        Otherwise, it can happen as in Russian-Japanese, with the father of the Ampirator ...

        And what does the Russian-Japanese? Then Russia, both militarily and economically, was much stronger than Japan.
    2. Svarog
      Svarog 30 May 2020 09: 24 New
      15
      How to discourage “samurai” from talking about revenge on the Kuril Islands: reflections on the military component
      Quote: Crowe
      How to discourage “samurai” from talking about revenge on the Kuril Islands: reflections on the military component

      No negotiations, our Kuril Islands. Point. The question is closed.

      Indeed, which is simpler ... It is enough to clearly announce this.
      1. Insurgent
        Insurgent 30 May 2020 10: 07 New
        +4
        Quote: Svarog
        Indeed, which is simpler ... It is enough to clearly announce this.

        The statements of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the leadership of the Russian Federation, not backed up by action, are pasting over their toilets ...
      2. silver_roman
        silver_roman 30 May 2020 10: 52 New
        +2
        declare a little. enshrined in the constitution by submitting to a referendum. then there will definitely be a point.
        1. Revival
          Revival 30 May 2020 12: 05 New
          +3
          Amendments instead of economics are strong.
          Are we going to prescribe any specific question directly in the constitution?
          Only then it is necessary to cancel the concept of demarcation and so on borders, otherwise it will easily crawl if desired))
    3. Civil
      Civil 30 May 2020 12: 23 New
      +2
      Today, Japan, with all due respect to the Japanese people, is just one of the dogs in the American pack. As long as the country remains occupied by the United States, the Japanese will be forced to fulfill the will of their masters, which means it is useless to appeal to common sense, logic or history.

      The choice is either to be rich, but dependent on the United States, or to be a poor but proud loner like the DPRK. Poor Japanese moan under the heel of the invaders. Massive rape of Japanese women, terrible taxes for protege oligarchs ...
    4. Vicontas
      Vicontas 30 May 2020 20: 35 New
      +1
      How to discourage samurai? It can be simple, modest and tasteful! Make a loud statement with an emphasis - "Any threat to the territorial integrity of Russia in the FAR EAST will be suppressed with NUCLEAR WEAPON ONLY! WEAPONS ALREADY STARTED!" After such encouraging news, even the most bruised samurai islands will hardly want to breed Hiroshima and Nagasaki at home!
      1. pmkemcity
        pmkemcity 1 June 2020 10: 49 New
        0
        Quote: Vicontas
        How to discourage samurai? It can be simple, modest and tasteful! Make a loud statement with an emphasis - "Any threat to the territorial integrity of Russia in the FAR EAST will be suppressed with NUCLEAR WEAPON ONLY! WEAPONS ALREADY STARTED!" After such encouraging news, even the most bruised samurai islands will hardly want to breed Hiroshima and Nagasaki at home!

    5. Narak-zempo
      Narak-zempo 31 May 2020 16: 59 New
      +1
      Quote: Crowe
      a real war in terms of order and organization is surprisingly like a brothel engulfed in fire

      These are the memoirs of the poet Lutik, one of the characters in the Sapkowski cycle about the witcher.
    6. Revolver
      Revolver 1 June 2020 00: 53 New
      0
      Quote: Crowe
      "A real war is surprisingly like a brothel on fire in terms of order and organization."

      during the flood
  2. mark1
    mark1 30 May 2020 06: 22 New
    +6
    What about us? Will we “answer the calls” again? What for? Everyone understands that such a path leads to a dead end. We simply cannot physically provide the defense of our own territories.

    Simply put, Russia must have forces that would ensure the destruction of the enemy fleet in our waters.

    Missile boats and diesel submarines are quite suitable for such a "heart-to-heart talk". Well armed and inconspicuous for the enemy, they can bring the fleet a lot of problems. Even large warships. Not to mention the auxiliary fleet.

    It remains, probably, the most anticipated part of the battle. Judge's scream: - Ippon! Clear victory. But such a victory requires a serious attack. This is where atomic submarines, cruisers, destroyers, anti-submarine and landing ships of the 1st rank become necessary. Here we will need our strategic bombers and air cover.

    There is no contradiction between the first and second quotes? Or have I not entered normal mode in the morning?
    1. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins 30 May 2020 07: 54 New
      +4
      From these throwings from one extreme to another, which you called contradictions, I began to recognize the author of the articles ...
    2. Peter is not the first
      Peter is not the first 30 May 2020 08: 01 New
      +5
      Quite right, did not enter. But not you, but the author. First, for the peace, that everything was lost and the population is not there, and will not be there, and then for health, about layered defense: almost the Maneyrheim or Maginot line needs to be built there.
  3. Eug
    Eug 30 May 2020 06: 45 New
    +9
    For the time being, we will not discourage conversations, God forbid, to prevent attempts at military-economic revenge. In general, any foreign policy problem of Russia rests on the economy. And the economy itself, in turn, rests on power ...
    1. Insurgent
      Insurgent 30 May 2020 08: 55 New
      +8
      Quote: Eug
      the economy, in turn, rests on power

      "Stumbling block",recumbent...
  4. The comment was deleted.
  5. A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 30 May 2020 06: 48 New
    -11
    The layered defense of uninhabited islands is exactly what the Russian Federation is urgently needed now.
    1. Kuroneko
      Kuroneko 30 May 2020 06: 58 New
      +9
      Quote: A. Privalov
      The layered defense of uninhabited islands is exactly what the Russian Federation is urgently needed now.

      Your humor in this case is inappropriate - only a group of Habomai islands is uninhabited. Kunashir, Iturup and Shikotan are more than inhabited.
      According to current accounting data, as of January 1, 2019, 18 people live in the South Kuril Islands, which is 302% of the total population of the Kuril Islands.
      1. A. Privalov
        A. Privalov 30 May 2020 08: 28 New
        -4
        Quote: Kuroneko
        Your humor in this case is inappropriate - only a group of Habomai islands is uninhabited. Kunashir, Iturup and Shikotan are more than inhabited.

        My, as you put it "humor", refers to non-inhabited islands. For layered defense in habitats, implying wire, as well as concrete barriers, minefields, etc., will almost completely cut off these 18 thousand poor people from the coastal strip, with all the consequences.
        I have been to those places in the 70s. Living there in those days was oh, how not fun. I doubt very much that something has changed dramatically for the better. So also to put them in a thorn?
        1. Kuroneko
          Kuroneko 30 May 2020 13: 53 New
          +1
          Quote: A. Privalov
          For layered defense in habitats, implying wire, as well as concrete barriers, minefields, etc., will almost completely cut off these 18 thousand poor people from the coastal strip, with all the consequences.

          Are you serious, or do you not understand what layered coastal defense is in modern realities? Not from the middle of the last century? It is not in vain that the author mentions the echeloned defense of the Crimea. Where did you see the obstacles, minefields and "thorns" there? For some reason, they only threw the thorn and mines - on their shore. It is only about installing the appropriate anti-aircraft and anti-ship systems operating in tandem. What, by the way, the author wrote in plain text.
          Try to read the article well - thoughtfully, not diagonally.
    2. lwxx
      lwxx 30 May 2020 07: 15 New
      11
      This is not enough. A week ago, an article was published on VO about the flight of TWO !! American strategists B-1B between the islands of the Kuril chain and the entry into the Sea of ​​Okhotsk. And what is most interesting, except for VO and Channel 5 there is silence everywhere, and if ANY NATO planes appear at our western borders, they shout and accompany. And then silence. So the flash blinked. There was no interception, no indignation, here it is the problem, we are weak there.
      1. Insurgent
        Insurgent 30 May 2020 08: 12 New
        +1
        Quote: lwxx
        A week ago, an article was published on VO about the flight of TWO !! American strategists B-1B between the islands of the Kuril chain and the entry into the Sea of ​​Okhotsk.


        They generally activated yes
        On May 29, 2020, the air forces on duty in the Western and Southern military districts intercepted and accompanied the US Air Force V-1B strategic bombers over the neutral waters of the Black and Baltic Seas.

        A video of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, it clearly shows how the Su-27 interceptor released a brake flap in order to equal the speed with the strategic bomber of the US Air Force B-1B ...

      2. Grits
        Grits 5 June 2020 01: 37 New
        +1
        Quote: lwxx
        There was no interception, no indignation, here it is the problem, we are weak there.

        Not just weak, but none. From the point of view of human settlement, the Kuril Islands are practically uninhabited. Like no man's land on the edge of the continent. From the point of view of defense of air defense - the passage of strategists showed the level of protection. One air defense system throughout the Kuril Islands is just a tick for the report and causes laughter. The same applies to anti-ship weapons - the protection of one island, this is not the protection of the entire archipelago.
        One of the first steps to strengthen the protection of the islands could be the deployment of a full-fledged air base, military garrison, anti-ship missile systems and air defense systems on Matua - in the very center. With the ability to moor ships. But this idea was somehow quickly forgotten.
    3. 41st region
      41st region 30 May 2020 07: 30 New
      +5
      Handsome.
      As the saying goes: "Maxim will die - and to hell with him!".
      Actually, almost always thought of the Far East and its population.
      1. NordUral
        NordUral 30 May 2020 12: 04 New
        +1
        So thought those leaders of the country who prosrali Union. Not according to Senka, the cap was the one who led the country after Stalin.
        1. your1970
          your1970 31 May 2020 15: 10 New
          0
          Quote: NordUral
          So thought those leaders of the country who prosrali Union. Not according to Senka, the cap was the one who led the country after Stalin.
          that is, the Soviet country was profiled yet with Soviet power ???? !!!
          The strong thing then is that socialism can exist exclusively under Stalin and no one can replace it .... fool
          Where are you Stalin (ver. 2) will you take something ???
          1. NordUral
            NordUral 31 May 2020 16: 10 New
            +1
            -that is, the Soviet country was profiled even under the Soviet regime ???? !!!

            Yes, some profiled, while others did everything for this.
            As for the new Stalin - it will come at the right time.
            1. your1970
              your1970 31 May 2020 16: 23 New
              0
              Quote: NordUral
              Yes, some profiled, while others did everything for this.
              As for the new Stalin - it will come at the right time.
              there are hopes for a party noonce she already SOME(Khrushchev, Gorbi, EBN) once profiled ?????
              And where then will he come from? By chance ??? Why didn’t he show up instead Khrushchev, Brezhnev Gorbachev?
              We hope for "Suddenly it will come"?
              1. NordUral
                NordUral 31 May 2020 16: 26 New
                0
                Will come when we are at the edge. And so, I still hope that the Communist Party, having renewed itself, will be able to consolidate the entire patriotic opposition and people for victories in elections at all levels.
                1. your1970
                  your1970 31 May 2020 16: 49 New
                  0
                  Quote: NordUral
                  Will come when we are at the edge.
                  -with Gorbi and EBN -when the Union collapsed -this more there was no edge ??? !!!! belay belay where else extreme ????

                  Quote: NordUral
                  And so, I still hope that the Communist Party, having renewed itself, will be able to consolidate the entire patriotic opposition and people for victories in elections at all levels.
                  -that after they called a billionaire a candidate for themselves ???? !!! A man who declared 180 degrees opposite to the official Program of the Communist Party of the Russian Federation his program visions ??? !!!

                  Yes, it’s more likely that Zhirinovsky and Navalny are consolidating — than the Communist Party of the Russian Federation at least with anyone (I’m silent about patriots) !!! At least with someone, I don’t want to fat them ...

                  There is now exactly the same situation as in the late USSR - these have sat up to the "race on carriages" and there is a high probability that, having renewed themselves, they will receive Gorby (v. 2)
                  And then Russia will come to a complete end, final and irrevocable ..

                  Be realistic a little bit
                  1. NordUral
                    NordUral 31 May 2020 18: 22 New
                    0
                    Sergei! These situations are such that only the Communist Party can really nominate a presidential candidate, the rest of the oxygen blocked.
                    We have what is, another is not given yet. And I agree with you - these will lead the country to the grave if we don’t get them out of power in the elections (very desirable).
                    1. your1970
                      your1970 31 May 2020 19: 00 New
                      -1
                      Quote: NordUral
                      And I agree with you - these will lead the country to the grave if we don’t get them out of power in the elections (very desirable)
                      belay belay I actually meant CPRF
                      Quote: NordUral
                      Communist Party, updated

                      Quote: your1970
                      There (in the Communist Party repeat ) now the situation is exactly the same as in the late USSR - these have sat up to the "race on carriages" and it is quite likely that updated - they will get Gorby (v. 2)


                      Having protest sentiments in fairly decent volumes - the Communist Party of the Russian Federation managed to give them to anyone. They liked sitting in the Duma and puffing out their cheeks - "We are the opposition !!!"
                      In reality, the Communist Party lost all its possible electorate. Those who did not find the USSR at a more or less conscious age-already 40 (!!!!).And they and the youth will go for LEADER- who will be believed, who will be able to call for himself.
                      And in the Communist Party - it’s not in principle already ..... that’s why they tried to nominate another in the elections –– but here they screwed up to the fullest ...
                      To nominate a billionaire as a candidate from the Communist Party of the Russian Federation, and even to cut the dough on the corporatization of agricultural enterprises. But the village did not vote for it ...
                      I didn't hold a blow at all - they found accounts, poked their noses, turned sour, "yes, I closed it," "yes, I forgot" ...
                      And these are just corrupt media - NOT retirees / emergency housing / thieves / oil surges / claims of Japan / governors / security officials / deforestation / corrupt officials / industry / USA in the end ... there isn’t just the media, but it’s sour ...

                      And the ideas of the Communist Party of the Russian Federation were pulled apart by all and sundry - all "for a welfare state" and other joys.
                      How will the ideas of the Communist Party - Navalny's supporters - like? He has already said everything - "Take away what was stolen", "Corruptionists in jail" and so on ...
                      1. NordUral
                        NordUral 31 May 2020 20: 14 New
                        0
                        In reality, the Communist Party lost all its possible electorate. Those who have not found the USSR at a more or less conscious age are already 40 (!!!!). And they and young people will go for the LEADER - whom they will believe, who can call for themselves.

                        I think that such (such) leaders will appear in the Communist Party.
                      2. your1970
                        your1970 31 May 2020 22: 08 New
                        +1
                        Oh well..
                        How will he attract people? "Everything is bad all around !!!" - so it is already patented ...
                        A promise to "bring everything back" - so a certain percentage of the electorate will be against it.

                        And yet ... you understand- that today's youth formula "our grandchildren will live under communism !!" just won't accept ??
                        They are accustomed to living here and now, the promise "now bear with us for five years, stick around, and then ...!" it's not gonna go.
                        Judging by the 2 previous redoing of property in Russia, it will be more or less tolerable in 10 years, not earlier ...

                        And yet, in case of victory of the Communist Party, there will be no import at all.
                        There will be no currency - foreign owners of nationalized enterprises will do everything to regain at least something by any means. And in such circumstances, trade does not work
                        And today we are thousands of times stronger than even in 1991 import-machine-dependent office equipment gadgets medicines and so on.
                        I am afraid that the Communist Party will not even last a year-if there is no import at all ....
                      3. NordUral
                        NordUral 31 May 2020 22: 53 New
                        +1
                        We do not need chimeras, but communism, namely a chimera, on which the Union burned. Moderate socialism is what our country needs.
                        Who wants to - works at state enterprises, who wants and can - works for himself.
                        Only major industries, land, etc. - nationwide.
                        I think this approach will work.
                      4. your1970
                        your1970 1 June 2020 12: 59 New
                        -1
                        Quote: NordUral
                        Only major industries, land, etc. - nationwide.
                        I think this approach will work.

                        It won’t work ..... for example, land ... you can take it from farmers and landowners. The question is who will work on it?
                        Industry is much more fun. The USSR was killed including the "funds". Remember that? When gasoline was poured into ravines to close the quarter?
                        And now it will be more fun - let's say the plant produces titanium. The MIC plant comes to it for titanium for missiles and the Moskovskie Baranki artel (c) ZT for titanium for shovels. The MIC plant can give zero (it is state), the artel can give money (and a lot if the shovels are exported to China where they are used to make blades for turbines fellow ).
                        In Soviet times, no one needed an aluminum car for nothing. Leave now unattended ..... belay
                        And yet everyone unanimously forgot that even in the USSR, despite the OBKHSS and the KGB, there was corruption among the fund managers. Even such a profession was - "pushers" ...
                        The scale of the separation of state-private and private with such fund managers will surpass the current week, they will turn trillions.
                        All this together will lead to the collapse of the "New NEP" many times faster than in the 20s. I think that if there is a nationalization of large industry, we will come to the nationalization of small property in a year at most. In reality, everything will fall down much faster
                      5. NordUral
                        NordUral 1 June 2020 13: 01 New
                        +1
                        It will work, Sergey, if we take into account that negative and do everything right.
                      6. your1970
                        your1970 1 June 2020 13: 59 New
                        -1
                        And who can determine now what is right and what is not with nationalization?
                        Nationalization of the bank of one will lead to the flight of owners and all, nationalization of the bank of the other, for example, suing and arresting all our accounts abroad ...
                        I hope you will not dispute the need for nationalization of banks?

                        Do you think that the RSFSR was forced to trade exclusively for gold and diamonds in the 1920s?

                        You are an unbridled optimist -
                        Quote: NordUral
                        take into account that negative
                        ... The USSR throughout its history tried to do something with this negativity, and died without coping with it ....
                        God bless him with titanium, we'll take AvtoVAZ. Nationalization of it will lead to the fact that small private suppliers will dictate the price to him .. And this will inevitably lead to the cost of the car, after which the people will say - "foreign cars have been slaughtered, basins are getting more expensive !!! Why is this all for us? ?? " And here you will have to set prices for small things, control costs, check salaries. As a result, it turns out that they may not be formally nationalized, but in fact under such control, that it will be easier to nationalize them ...
                        Moreover, it will spread to all industry and agriculture automatically, they will be forced to .......
                      7. NordUral
                        NordUral 1 June 2020 14: 06 New
                        0
                        ... The USSR throughout its history tried to do something with this negativity, and died without coping with it ....

                        He fought under Stalin, and then was killed, and not dead.
                      8. strannik1985
                        strannik1985 1 June 2020 14: 15 New
                        0
                        I hope you will not dispute the need for nationalization of banks?

                        If we follow the Soviet model, then without a financial system, nationalization is meaningless, we will spawn trusts, as in the days of the NEP.
                        God bless him with titanium AvtoVAZ.

                        No, for the system to work, there must be a full cycle, from ore mining to car painting.
                        And the state trades abroad, a ban to private individuals.
                      9. your1970
                        your1970 1 June 2020 15: 02 New
                        0
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        I hope you will not dispute the need for nationalization of banks?

                        If we follow the Soviet model, then without a financial system, nationalization is meaningless, we will spawn trusts, as in the days of the NEP.
                        God bless him with titanium AvtoVAZ.

                        No, for the system to work, there must be a full cycle, from ore mining to car painting.
                        And the state trades abroad, a ban to private individuals.

                        This is exactly what I was talking about and what NordUral is trying to get around - speaking about the nationalization of exclusively large-scale industry and land ....
                        Alas, nationalization in our conditions can only be "complete and unconditional" ...
                        a trifle will drag like a vacuum cleaner ...
                      10. strannik1985
                        strannik1985 1 June 2020 18: 07 New
                        0
                        Alas, nationalization in our conditions can only be "complete and unconditional" ... a trifle will tighten like a vacuum cleaner

                        It depends on what, in 1952, for example, the cooperative sector — any consumer goods, foodstuffs (actually all collective farms were essentially cooperatives), and the service sector (services) —– could be produced / made on a private initiative, for example, 8% of industrial production. Just in comparison with the state sector, the cooperative (private) will not be large in terms of the volume of the domestic market.
                      11. your1970
                        your1970 1 June 2020 20: 59 New
                        0
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        food products (actually all collective farms are essentially cooperatives),

                        Good! Only here is
                        Quote: NordUral
                        land, etc. - nationwide.
                        - already nationalized land ...... and the plan to implement the products will need to be energetic, otherwise you can reach the hunger riots ....
                        Therefore, the maximum hairdresser and the collective farm market. But even they are in doubt, officials will quickly erect corruption .. In absolutely Soviet times, the veterinarian on the market, the position passed by inheritance strictly ...
                      12. strannik1985
                        strannik1985 2 June 2020 07: 47 New
                        0
                        - land is already nationalized .....

                        It is expressed in the fact that it cannot be sold and taken away if you do not use it for its intended purpose, EMNIP, 6 years. C / x - the manufacturer of this is neither cold nor hot.
                        But I think I will like a medium or long-term loan at 1-3% (to the non-payer 6%). Short-term loans, by the way, are at 2-4%.
                        Therefore, the maximum hairdresser and collective farm market.

                        Any goods sold for money, including to the state.
                        https://warhead.su/2020/05/18/pravda-li-oruzhie-dlya-krasnoy-armii-mogla-delat-lyubaya-artel
                        The coop.sector "lost" in terms of volumes, but the product range can be any.
                        But even they are in doubt, officials will quickly build corruption ..

                        Not more or less than now, but large thefts / bribes will be complicated to the limit.
                      13. your1970
                        your1970 2 June 2020 12: 38 New
                        0
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        It is expressed in the fact that it cannot be sold and taken away if you do not use it for its intended purpose,

                        Nude ...
                        Only there is a nuance even we have almost all the land from private owners. I hesitate to ask, where will the collective farms work? And what kind of joy will the rural population have from this?
                        And if, God forbid, they begin to crush these private owners, so that prices are reduced, the people will have to give at least something, then anything can happen ..
                        Well, you already buried all imports (including food) by nationalization ...

                        Quote: strannik1985
                        Any goods sold for money, including to the state.

                        The then artels and cooperatives were purely formally private. Such is the twist of the Soviet regime ... They could not trade their products at prices different from those established by the state. They did not have funds. They could not trade abroad and for cash (except for household items) - everything else went on sale through the systems of state stores. You can call Uralmashvagonzavod - "workers' cooperative" or artel, the essence of this will not change - under Stalin it was a form with less bureaucratization than purely state-owned factories, no more ...
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        e more or less than now, but large thefts / bribes will be complicated to the limit.
                        - if there are private productions - there will be many times more ...
                        Under the USSR, when the funds were worth nothing (the same cars with aluminum, for example), there were already "pushers" - suppliers. Only then everything was for a bottle / ticket to the south / mutton (really from life !!!) - and now to get this car, they will add 20 bucks to the bottle, because it will cost money and more.
                        The current billionaires will be nudibranchs against the background of people managing funds and deciding who should release their products according to state ( penny !!!!) prices ..

                        And if prices are NOT penny, then people will ask in a month: "Why are you better than those?"
                      14. strannik1985
                        strannik1985 2 June 2020 16: 52 New
                        0
                        I hesitate to ask, where will the collective farms work?

                        Ahem, commune, collective farm, TOZ - all cooperatives with varying degrees of socialization of land / equipment / livestock. AT
                        collective farm come along with land and cattle.
                        There is no intimidation and killing of collective farm activists, arson of collective farm buildings - there is no continuous collectivization.
                        The then artels and cooperatives were purely formally private.

                        I wrote about private initiative, not a form of ownership.
                        Artels could not be commercial, but they sold their products themselves, EMNIP price no higher than 10-15% higher for similar goods in state stores.
                        Under the USSR, when funds were worthless

                        ~ 10-15% of the volume of industrial production of the country is not particularly clear.
                        Those pushers could not cash the funds that they disposed of.
                      15. your1970
                        your1970 2 June 2020 17: 45 New
                        0
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        I hesitate to ask, where will the collective farms work?

                        Ahem, commune, collective farm, TOZ - all cooperatives with varying degrees of socialization of land / equipment / livestock. AT
                        collective farm come along with land and cattle.
                        -All the land is owned by farmers (98% of the agricultural land is in our possession) .With what do ordinary people have to join the collective farm / TOZ / farm? Do they have no land at all?
                        Automatically and without options - nationalization

                        Quote: strannik1985
                        EMNIP price is not higher than 10-15% higher for similar goods in state stores.
                        - which fool will now work for 10-15% of profits? which means - state trade and nationalization shops, warehouses, bases and so on ...

                        that is, we still run into nationalization of everything and everything - even if we nationalize Gazprom and Russian Railways just ...

                        Quote: strannik1985
                        Those pushers could not cash the funds that they disposed of.
                        - they could. It’s just that this goal wasn’t set — the average Soviet man physically couldn’t even spend 100 there was nothing+ The KGB and the OBKhSS would immediately appear. And so there were ways - we all the collective farm chairmen paid the co-workers for construction work in cash, often enough ....
                        and this can be said at the household level - at the factory level everything was even more fun
                      16. strannik1985
                        strannik1985 2 June 2020 21: 00 New
                        0
                        - farmers own all the land

                        In 2018, 56,5% of agricultural households are organizations, 31% of the households and only 12,5 farms and private entrepreneurs. The products yielded 3022,1 billion, 1656,7 billion and 670 million, respectively.
                        will work for 10-15% of profit now?

                        State stores also traded with a margin.
                        Will grow because demand from the population will increase, but imports are likely to decrease.
                        - they could.

                        Collective farms - cooperatives, traded for cash.
                        It is possible, but for this we need a roof at the level of the leadership of the republic, including the KGB and the Ministry of Internal Affairs.
                        Not that now, they are sawing all and sundry.
                      17. your1970
                        your1970 2 June 2020 23: 57 New
                        -1
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        only 12,5 farms and private entrepreneurs.
                        - I gave you a figure of the volume of land of farmers in our region, about the same in the region. We are now getting into slaughter because of grazing for cattle of citizens - in the villages the land from the outskirts is already farm, there’s nowhere to graze or rent a pasture

                        Quote: strannik1985
                        31% of the household
                        are you up to date it is it? It's LPH - that is, banal vegetable gardens with an area of ​​5-10 acres in settlements, and up to 20 acres (with us) outside the population. In our cities, even for private household plots, land is allocated mainly under old housing and only for construction of new housing under IZHS. Open any city on the Public Cadastral Map Volga region of the Saratov region (Red Kut for example) and you will see this. And the same thing will be in Samara and Volgograd ...
                        So collective farm from vegetable gardens in the city -This certainly a very powerful organization will be

                        Quote: strannik1985
                        It is possible, but for this we need a roof at the level of the leadership of the republic, including the KGB and the Ministry of Internal Affairs.
                        -you want to draw a roof for the collective farm chairman in the Volga region in Moscow under the USSR ??? !!!! well-well .... Armenian co-workers on the construction of cowsheds / koshar would be in complete discomfort from such news, their employer has a roof in Moscow. ...
                        Not even funny to be honest ....
                      18. strannik1985
                        strannik1985 3 June 2020 08: 09 New
                        0
                        - I gave you a figure of the volume of land of farmers

                        We are not discussing your region, but the whole of Russia. For 2018, the cultivated area of ​​agricultural organizations 53,6 million hectares, K (F) X and IP 23,6 million, private households 2,4 million hectares.
                        The main part of agricultural production is provided by organizations - 70,2% of grain, 89,1% of sugar beets, 80,6% of rapeseed, 79 (in slaughter weight)% of livestock, 53,1% of milk, 80,5% of eggs.
                        Relatively large indicators of farms in grain - 29%, wool - 35,5%, sunflower seeds - 33,2%.
                        But the funny thing is, farmers also need cooperatives, i.e. unite
                        https://www.kp.ru/daily/27128/4214475/
                        This is LPH

                        Taking into account the cultivated area of ​​2,4 million hectares, you can not touch them at all. At the same time, they produce 68% of potatoes, 55,1% of vegetables, 38,7 milk, 46,5 wool.
                        - you want a roof in Moscow for the chairman of a collective farm in the Volga region

                        The company has two accounts - a settlement account (all enterprise funds are received, expenses and obligations of the economic agency are paid) and loan (borrowed funds of the State Bank received in the form of a bank loan, can be used exclusively for the purposes indicated when issuing a loan, taking into account 90% of the state economy, funds it cannot be cashed out, only to receive products, the State Bank offsets the debt by offsetting). Those. with settlement accounts, the collective farm chairman / director of the plant / enterprise still has something to do, but to cash out millions from the loan account - no.
                      19. your1970
                        your1970 3 June 2020 18: 36 New
                        0
                        Do you know that AFTER In 2018, a lot of IPs were closed so as not to pay taxes / fines and now they work as physicists?

                        Quote: strannik1985
                        Those. with settlement accounts, the collective farm chairman / director of the plant / enterprise still has something to do, but to cash out millions from the loan account - no.
                        -I don’t really care how the collective farm chairmen manipulated the accounts-I just know in fact that 10 were paid for the construction of the barn, 000 for cash for the 25-series house ... and they were built on collective farms in 5- 000-80 houses are contagious ...

                        Quote: strannik1985
                        We are not discussing your region, but the whole of Russia.
                        - the same thing in the Samara and Volgograd regions. Kuban and Krasnodar - there are legal entities / people, and where risky farming zones do not want lawyers to work in principle - the farmer will stretch 1-2 years on old stocks and this is impossible for the lawyer. we have harvested for 2 years, and before that, there were 5 years of drought - the dumb lawyers are dumb.
                        And yes, 1 my district is 390 hectares of agricultural land, 000 neighboring -4 million hectares
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        K (F) X and IP 23,6 million, private households 2,4 million hectares.
                        is almosthalf total LPH or 4% of peasant farms are already numbers if that ....
                      20. strannik1985
                        strannik1985 4 June 2020 11: 39 New
                        0
                        -I generally do not care how the collective farm chairmen manipulated the accounts-

                        There is an OBEP for this, now they spin it in the same way, but with sums that are orders of magnitude larger.
                        a farmer in old stocks will last 1-2 years, but this is impossible for a lawyer.

                        Once again, what difference does it make if we talk about all of Russia?
                        What is the difference to a farmer or agricultural organization, who will pay him?
                      21. your1970
                        your1970 4 June 2020 12: 50 New
                        0
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        There is an OBEP for this, now they spin it in the same way, but with sums that are orders of magnitude larger.

                        Well ... 5 built cowsheds allowed exchange to get an apartment in Moscow in the area The Kremlin repeat relatives of the cooperative bought three rubles in Moscow in 1984 for 21 within the Garden Ring.
                        And this, to put it mildly, is not 2 kopecks ..... and this is what was heard. There was something to swindle with ....
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        What is the difference to a farmer or agricultural organization, who will pay him?

                        You just forgot the beginning - we are not talking about them, but about nationalization. If now we have an average of three people working for a farmer, and tomorrow, under socialism, there will also be three people working, then the population will unanimously say, "Why don't we need such socialism if it is just like under capitalism is there no work for us and is not expected? "And it will be necessary to give work to the population or force the farmer to take half the village to his work or nationalize the land to create collective farms.
                      22. strannik1985
                        strannik1985 4 June 2020 13: 04 New
                        0
                        Well ... 5 built cowsheds made it possible by exchange to get an apartment in Moscow near the Kremlin

                        Or thunder on the bunks, and now the cut at the construction of the Vostochny spaceport allows you to buy a mansion in London or an apartment in Miami. The extent of possible theft is not comparable, as are the possibilities of the economy.
                        You just forgot the beginning - we are not talking about them, but about nationalization

                        They discussed it, initially nationalization concerned only land and was carried out as early as 1917, collective farms united the poorest farms and were voluntary. It was only in the village that a quiet war began - the intimidation and murder of collective farm activists, the arson of collective farm property - carried out continuous collectivization. There is no surge in crime - nothing will change.
                      23. your1970
                        your1970 4 June 2020 13: 56 New
                        0
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        There is no surge in crime - nothing will change.

                        And you dropped the people from the accounts- With the formula- "And what for is this socialism to us? !!!!! so without work - so what?"
                      24. strannik1985
                        strannik1985 5 June 2020 13: 25 New
                        0
                        And you dropped the people from the accounts

                        Why did you decide that there would be no work?
                        The owners of big business "lose" their jobs, and this is not quite the right people.
                      25. your1970
                        your1970 5 June 2020 14: 42 New
                        0
                        Repeat
                        Quote: your1970
                        You just forgot the beginning - we are not talking about them, but about nationalization. If now we have an average of three people working for a farmer, and tomorrow under socialism, there will also be three people, then the population will say in unison. " and what for us such socialism if under it as well as under capitalism for us there is no work and is not expected?"And it will be necessary to give work to the population either force the farmer to take half the village to work or nationalize the land to create collective farms.
  6. pmkemcity
    pmkemcity 1 June 2020 10: 57 New
    0
    Quote: your1970
    Those who have not found the USSR at a more or less conscious age are already 40 (!!!!). And they and young people will go for the LEADER - whom they will believe, who can call for themselves.

  • Molot1979
    Molot1979 30 May 2020 06: 53 New
    +6
    What did you want to say? What islands need to be protected? A very fresh idea. Here are just years belated. Because they have been preparing for the defense of the Kuril Islands for many years. As for missiles "posing a danger", any weapon in general is dangerous. It is created to intimidate the enemy. In total, completely useless material, moreover, full of platitudes and contradictions.
    1. KVU-NSVD
      KVU-NSVD 30 May 2020 06: 57 New
      +3
      Quote: Molot1979
      . Total, completely useless material, besides full of platitudes and contradictions.


      Previously, the author’s articles were more interesting, more logical and connected.
      1. Mudavius
        Mudavius 30 May 2020 09: 27 New
        -1
        Quote: KVU-NSVD
        Previously, the author’s articles were more interesting, more logical and connected.

        Previously, the site was different .. See priorities have changed or the sponsor has set new tasks hi
  • certero
    certero 30 May 2020 06: 59 New
    +7
    No need to invent anything. In Russia, the doctrine of the use of atomic weapons states that "in the event of a threat to territorial integrity." All. This is quite enough. Japan is a very small country.
    1. Gardamir
      Gardamir 30 May 2020 08: 21 New
      +6
      doctrine application
      Already funny. The Kremlin does not surrender and will not shoot at its own. This people of Russia can be kept in the muzzles. And you can’t shoot at partners.
      1. Mudavius
        Mudavius 30 May 2020 09: 36 New
        -4
        Quote: Gardamir
        doctrine application
        Already funny. The Kremlin does not surrender and will not shoot at its own. This people of Russia can be kept in the muzzles. And you can’t shoot at partners.

        How vicious you are ... No one keeps me in the muzzles! And you ?
        1. Gardamir
          Gardamir 30 May 2020 09: 40 New
          0
          And now I'm sitting at work and forced to put on my little dog
          1. Mudavius
            Mudavius 30 May 2020 11: 13 New
            -2
            Quote: Gardamir
            And now I'm sitting at work and forced to put on my little dog

            I'm on vacation .. drinks
        2. NordUral
          NordUral 30 May 2020 12: 06 New
          +2
          Far from Russia, you probably live, Mudavius?
          1. Mudavius
            Mudavius 30 May 2020 12: 20 New
            -3
            Quote: NordUral
            Far from Russia, you probably live, Mudavius?

            No, the back of Russia! Ural father ... Life is not sugar, but as long as my heart beats I will be on guard Eugene! We were born in the USSR and we know a lot about comparing and analyzing the current political moment in the life of the country and the world ..!
            1. NordUral
              NordUral 30 May 2020 12: 24 New
              +2
              I apologize! Bes beguiled. Hello Ural! I have not been to my homeland since 1965.
              1. Mudavius
                Mudavius 30 May 2020 12: 44 New
                -2
                Quote: NordUral
                I apologize! Bes beguiled. Hello Ural! I have not been to my homeland since 1965.

                I read you too .. I thought they killed you and others .. So, all is not lost Eugene! Good luck .. I'm here "floating since 2013" ..
                Without the Urals, Russia would not exist for a long time! soldier
                1. NordUral
                  NordUral 30 May 2020 12: 49 New
                  +2
                  Without the Urals, Russia would not exist for a long time!
                  That's right!
                  They urinate regularly, but I'm tenacious, we will break through.
                  1. Mudavius
                    Mudavius 30 May 2020 13: 29 New
                    -2
                    Quote: NordUral
                    Without the Urals, Russia would not exist for a long time!
                    That's right!
                    They urinate regularly, but I'm tenacious, we will break through.

                    May God grant you health and that you are here on the site ... Watch out!
                    1. NordUral
                      NordUral 30 May 2020 14: 15 New
                      0
                      Mutually, Mudavius!
        3. Revival
          Revival 30 May 2020 12: 11 New
          0
          Go to the store without a mask?
          1. Mudavius
            Mudavius 30 May 2020 12: 27 New
            -9
            Quote: Revival
            Go to the store without a mask?

            I never dressed and will not be out of principle ..! I grew up on homemade sour cream, fresh milk and homemade meat .. Cucumbers tomatoes etc. The main thing is to feel yourself internally ..
            And these alarmists, etc. let them shy away .. If I get sick, then I get sick and get sick .. Let's break through !!!
            PS As one specialist said ... The first alarmists die, and everything else is gone and where to hide .. hi
            1. Revival
              Revival 30 May 2020 12: 34 New
              -1
              So here is the second component, but in the store you are being served or are the police called?
              1. Mudavius
                Mudavius 30 May 2020 12: 40 New
                -4
                Quote: Revival
                So here is the second component, but in the store you are being served or are the police called?

                In my opinion, they react and silently break through the goods ... hi
                1. cniza
                  cniza 30 May 2020 18: 11 New
                  +2
                  Are you a hypnotist? lol
    2. Avior
      Avior 30 May 2020 12: 02 New
      +1
      Actually, you are not quite right.
      The military doctrine says otherwise.
      . 27. The Russian Federation reserves the right to use nuclear weapons in response to the use of nuclear and other types of weapons of mass destruction against it and (or) its allies, as well as in the case of aggression against the Russian Federation using conventional weapons, when the very existence is jeopardized state.
  • knn54
    knn54 30 May 2020 07: 13 New
    +4
    52 tons of Russian gold were transported on the Hizen cruiser in 1920 ONLY from the bank of Vladivostok. For 100 years,% are not small.
    And the author of the rights-incitement of the Yankees only reinforce the claims of the Japanese.
    1. Free wind
      Free wind 30 May 2020 07: 57 New
      +3
      Every 30 times reduce the weight. Well, and so all the questions for Kolchak, Semenov, and so on. They paid for the supply of weapons and help Yapy in the fight against the RSFSR.
    2. Mudavius
      Mudavius 30 May 2020 09: 40 New
      -1
      Quote: knn54
      52 tons of Russian gold were transported on the Hizen cruiser in 1920 ONLY from the bank of Vladivostok. For 100 years,% are not small.

      But samurai do not even stutter about this gold and what they did in the Far East by landing their corps when the Civil War was going on in Russia ..
      Quote: knn54
      And the author of the rights-incitement of the Yankees only reinforce the claims of the Japanese.

      And it is the Japanese yanks who incite so that constant tension is ..
  • KCA
    KCA 30 May 2020 07: 15 New
    +1
    The incredible happened - the Iponians landed and seized the Kuril Islands, then what? And then the question of protecting the islands arises for the Iponians, it is necessary to organize supplies, to increase the contingent, which again will require additional supplies, but will there be supplies? Any transport vessel will have to be escorted by a whole group of ships, unloading from clean water, somehow there are no convenient bays and ports on the islands, when unloading someone will not attack ships, and the aforementioned submarines and RTOs, and aviation, and missile troops, and the ship can be dispensed with and without RCC, any KR will do, how quickly the invaders on the islands become like the Germans and their satellites in Stalingrad? How quickly will they start cooking their ammunition for lunch?
    1. _Sergei_
      _Sergei_ 30 May 2020 08: 13 New
      +1
      If the incredible happened, then there will be no one to supply (
      In Russia, the doctrine of the use of atomic weapons states that "in the event of a threat to territorial integrity." All.
      )
      1. Oleg Zorin
        Oleg Zorin 30 May 2020 15: 16 New
        -1
        There is no such thing in the Doctrine. Don't fantasize
        1. _Sergei_
          _Sergei_ 30 May 2020 15: 51 New
          0
          According to the new version of the military doctrine, the Russian Federation reserves the right to use nuclear weapons in response to the use of nuclear and other types of weapons of mass destruction against it and (or) its allies, as well as in the case of aggression against the Russian Federation using conventional weapons, when it is compromised the very existence of the state
          .
    2. FIR FIR
      FIR FIR 30 May 2020 16: 09 New
      0
      Have you been to the Kuril Islands? No!
      If they were, they would not write such a fucking thing.
  • Free wind
    Free wind 30 May 2020 07: 27 New
    +1
    And with whom the author was going to fight and the ipons to shout. You can approach the Kuril Islands on ships 2-3 months a year. All subtle are quite noticeable from drones, the resolution of the cameras is very high. For Japan, all these protesters are needed to pit a few pairs, someone wants to pomint. They rally there against the Chinese, and against the Americans. what not to write about it. About American hosts, the author is an optimist or pessimist, and in relation to whom. it’s not clear who is holding someone’s tail. If only their relationship would be read. In the years 70-80, yapi began to drive their cars to America, there was such an American-Japanese auto war. Automobile factories in America began to go bankrupt, the Americans raised import duties. They said, and we will remove your bases ... removed the duties. In 1995-2000, they began to take over the steel market in America (Japan, not one of them, but the world leader in the production of high alloy steels), the Americans raised duties, the Japanese said, and we will remove your bases ... removed the duties. So the question is interesting.
    1. Doccor18
      Doccor18 30 May 2020 07: 42 New
      +7
      You can approach the Kuril Islands on ships 2-3 months a year.

      Only from December to March is problematic; in the remaining months we walked calmly. Chatterbox of course, but it rarely doesn’t talk there ...
  • parusnik
    parusnik 30 May 2020 07: 30 New
    +6
    I will express myself rather primitively in order to drive the Japanese away from the Kuril Islands, it is necessary that they drive Russian-made cars to Japan, that they work on Russian computers, etc ..., but for now ..
    1. grandson of Perun
      grandson of Perun 30 May 2020 10: 04 New
      +1
      Quote: parusnik
      so that they would drive Russian-made cars to Japan

      Firstly, in Japan there are protective duties on the import of overseas (as they call) cars.
      Secondly, for this to become economically viable, we need to minimize the leverage of logistics, that is, build our car plants in the Far East.
      But car factories themselves are just the tip of the iceberg. It will require the construction of a whole cluster of many factories for the production of materials and components. For example, in order not to carry tires thousands of kilometers from the European part of the country.
      The example of the Vladivostok Sollers is indicative.
      Thirdly, export will not pay back such construction costs, which means that cars produced in the Far East will mostly have to go to the domestic market.
      And then the fight against dumping rises in full growth, especially with the import of used Japanese women. And due to the import of second-hand and the further maintenance of the worn out second-hand, many residents of the Far East are now feeding. And it will not be difficult for the instigators of our "partners" to bring them to the rallies.
      In general, a comprehensive long-term development of the Far East is required. And huge financial costs from the state. For investors are well aware of the risks, and they won’t subscribe to them without reinforced concrete guarantees.
      1. FIR FIR
        FIR FIR 30 May 2020 16: 11 New
        0
        All this will require just something ... another president, government and people
        1. grandson of Perun
          grandson of Perun 2 June 2020 22: 37 New
          0
          Quote: FIR FIR
          All of this will require just something ... another ... people

          And what is our people not like?
  • Doccor18
    Doccor18 30 May 2020 07: 30 New
    +3
    How to discourage “samurai” from talking about revenge on the Kuril Islands: reflections on the military component

    P.u. RCC, S-400 air defense missile systems and a radically modernized machine gun and artillery division otvadit ...
  • Valery Valery
    Valery Valery 30 May 2020 07: 37 New
    +6
    Yes, spit !! Kuril Islands - the territory of Russia! Dot!
    1. cniza
      cniza 30 May 2020 18: 06 New
      +3
      Quote: Valery Valery
      Yes, spit !! Kuril Islands - the territory of Russia! Dot!


      And no need to conduct any talk on this subject, especially a joint household. activity is a terrible mistake.
  • Aleksandr_15
    Aleksandr_15 30 May 2020 07: 56 New
    +8
    I don’t understand our part about this. You can simply not pay any attention to it, even if they write down and give a damn about Eurasia.
    1. Mudavius
      Mudavius 30 May 2020 09: 45 New
      -4
      Quote: Aleksandr_15
      I don’t understand our part about this. You can simply not pay any attention to it, even if they write down and give a damn about Eurasia.

      Well, they don't seem to be paying attention .. It is "our media" constantly raising this topic with howls and lamentations .. As well as about Ukraine and Belarus .. The task is to keep Russia in constant tension, maybe they will fail .. hi The old technique of the West.
  • Doctor
    Doctor 30 May 2020 07: 58 New
    +3
    Tired of it. Close the question once and for all

    History teaches that nothing happens "forever" in this world.
    The Japanese will not accept the loss of islands and parts of Sakhalin, just as we are with the collapse of the USSR.
    The fight will continue. Until the end of the life of the universe. fellow
  • 1536
    1536 30 May 2020 08: 12 New
    +5
    "We believed that such a concession (transfer of the Kuril Islands to Japan) does not really matter for the USSR. There are deserted islands that were used only by fishermen and the military. "
    This phrase alone is enough to understand how criminal many decisions of the party leadership of the CPSU were. To maintain her "power", she was ready for anything. These people even lacked criminal logic, and the sense of self-preservation did not work. This can be said only in the stage of deep drinking, when a person was in a binge and for a glass of vodka is ready for anything, including treason. Or is everything much simpler, but even more cynical: did the Japanese give a cash advance? Yes Yes! So it should be said to these Japanese or their descendants: "To whom they gave a bribe, with whom they" negotiated ", ask for that. Come on, goodbye!"
    That's just somehow restless at heart, too often lately Russia and its people have been losing territory just like that, for a little snuff of tobacco, for dancing with African-Americans or slamming on the shoulder. And if she acquired, then these acquisitions were accompanied by great blood and losses.
    1. Mudavius
      Mudavius 30 May 2020 09: 57 New
      -5
      Quote: 1536
      That's just somehow restless at heart, too often lately Russia and its people have been losing territory just like that, for a little snuff of tobacco, for dancing with African-Americans or slamming on the shoulder. And if she acquired, then these acquisitions were accompanied by great blood and losses.

      You spilled salt on the wound .. Also the soul hurts! The territories and the inheritance of the USSR were annoyed .. And they received not gratitude, but aggressive and corrupt neo-states at the borders ..
      Let’s even give a small rocky island and EVERYTHING further on the rise .. The sex of Russia can be chopped off and in general we can cease to exist as a nation and a state entity!
      As Zhukov said, "Fight to the death, don't give up an inch of land to enemies ..!" ..
    2. tatra
      tatra 30 May 2020 13: 20 New
      0
      You can be seen from those who, with hypocritical "righteous anger", expose all the facts that you in all other cases justify or "do not notice" for the crimes of the Soviet communists, including what Nikolai II, praised by the Russian enemies of the communists, did.
      Portsmouth World
      According to the agreement, Russia recognized Korea as a sphere of Japanese influence, ceded to Japan rental rights to the Liaodong Peninsula with Port Arthur and Dalniy, part of the South Ural Railway from Port Arthur to Kuanchenzi and agreed to conclude a fishing convention along the Russian coasts of the Japanese, Okhotsk and Bering Seas. According to article 9 of this treaty, Russia ceded to Japan the south of Sakhalin
      1. Mudavius
        Mudavius 30 May 2020 13: 41 New
        -3
        Quote: tatra
        You can be seen from those who, with hypocritical "righteous anger", expose all the facts that you in all other cases justify or "do not notice" for the crimes of the Soviet communists, including what Nikolai II, praised by the Russian enemies of the communists, did.
        Portsmouth World

        Are you this to me, Dear ....?
        Quote: tatra
        According to article 9 of this treaty, Russia ceded to Japan the south of Sakhalin

        We defeated Japan (the Kwantung Army and Hokaido would have taken)
        Are you out of your mind about all sorts of contracts, etc.? ..
        In general, the United States offered to divide Japan into two parts. But with the condition that Stalin did not agree to, China should also divide it ..
        A lot of things in the archives are hidden and not in favor of the USA and England at that time .. hi They deny everything of course, but they smell ... It’s not casual that Russia is trying to destroy the USSR without sparing money ..
        1. tatra
          tatra 30 May 2020 13: 45 New
          +1
          What do you have to do with it? My answer was -1536 (Eugene)
      2. Oleg Zorin
        Oleg Zorin 30 May 2020 15: 21 New
        0
        And where did he (Nikolai) go? He blew the war ...
  • Gardamir
    Gardamir 30 May 2020 08: 17 New
    -3
    What are you doing? Under Putin, Russia has become a terpule country. This is an eternal nagging, ah-ah, these Japanese, Ukrainians, Poles, Americans .... Why not say once and for all, this is our land, the ancestors shed blood for it. We will not give up a shred and there will be no negotiations.
    But the ideology of partnership, oh, but we can bargain.
    1. Mudavius
      Mudavius 30 May 2020 10: 04 New
      -6
      Quote: Gardamir
      What are you doing? Under Putin, Russia has become a terpule country. This is an eternal nagging, ah-ah, these Japanese, Ukrainians, Poles, Americans ...

      And with a hunchback, EBN, Medvedev, Who were we, let me ask? hi
      I was born in the USSR and not enthusiastic about the current regime and system, but still .. The more Russia is blamed in the West and other neolibs, the more I am still convinced that we will break through ..
      1. Gardamir
        Gardamir 30 May 2020 10: 15 New
        +1
        Here I do not agree a bit. They scolded us five hundred years ago, under kings, general secretaries, and presidents. But the authorities never had such frank traders professing the ideology of partnership.
        However, just as you hope, we will break through.
        1. Mudavius
          Mudavius 30 May 2020 11: 12 New
          -5
          Quote: Gardamir
          Here I do not agree a bit. They scolded us five hundred years ago, under kings, general secretaries, and presidents. But the authorities never had such frank traders professing the ideology of partnership.
          However, just as you hope, we will break through.

          Good koment I agree! And I thought you were an internal enemy (of whom there divorced, like cockroaches) .. hi
  • Old partisan
    Old partisan 30 May 2020 08: 21 New
    11
    All conversations with claims may end when the "leadership" of our country will not chew snot, and no revisions of the results of the war will be unambiguously announced.
    1. Mudavius
      Mudavius 30 May 2020 10: 08 New
      -2
      Quote: Old Partisan
      All conversations with claims may end when the "leadership" of our country will not chew snot, and no revisions of the results of the war will be unambiguously announced.

      Yes, it was like that and it was stated even in the Constitution ..
      It's time to collect stones !!! And for this we need a combat-ready Army and Navy and armed with OWN weapons modern! What has been done in the last 5 years! soldier And there it will be seen
  • Andrei Nikolaevich
    Andrei Nikolaevich 30 May 2020 08: 48 New
    +1
    Both the article is interesting and the thoughts are correct. But the problem remained, the problem. And it is necessary to populate and develop the Far East. But conditions for people are necessary. The main thing is transport. We fly into space, and only recently received a road from the Far East to Moscow. On airplanes, such grenadier territories cannot be mastered. Yes, and Moscow is not rubber. All this is sad somehow ....
  • Million
    Million 30 May 2020 08: 52 New
    +5
    It’s not even a matter of a dispute, but of our government. From them all can be expected ...
  • Krasnoyarsk
    Krasnoyarsk 30 May 2020 09: 08 New
    +1
    = How to discourage “samurai” from talking about revenge in the Kuril Islands: =
    Yes, let them tell themselves. The main thing is that our Foreign Ministry does not talk about this. And under no sauce.
    From the word - at all. And the defense of the Kuril Islands ... it is - defense. She does not depend on any talk in Japan.

    .
  • chenia
    chenia 30 May 2020 09: 10 New
    +4
    Well, people run wild like that. To consider the possibility of the capture of the Kuril Islands by the Japanese, this is delusional nonsense. But in order to direct their thoughts in the right direction, it is necessary to promote the theme of compensation to the victims of the genocide organized by the Japanese against the Chinese. Up to territorial concessions. China picks up. Although nothing will come of this, but the pressure should be tough. And let the samurai have a headache.
    And they will not be up to the Kuril Islands.
  • Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 30 May 2020 09: 24 New
    +3
    This issue is solved in one way: the settlement of the islands and normal economic activity ... and the stimulation of the population to live there and normal communication with the whole of Russia. And the enemy will always look and think at half-empty territories.
    1. your1970
      your1970 31 May 2020 15: 20 New
      -1
      Quote: Zaurbek
      This issue is solved in one way: the settlement of the islands and normal economic activity ... and the stimulation of the population to live there and normal communication with the whole of Russia. And the enemy will always look and think at half-empty territories.

      Will you go ??? The language of blah blah is easy .. there even in Soviet times people did not break ...
      we have the Far East and under the kings and the Soviet Union settled forcibly mainly
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 31 May 2020 17: 38 New
        0
        Now it’s gone ..... and about 15 -20 years ago. I went. In our company, guys from Ukraine were sent to the Far East.

        The second option is British: send convicted there. Australia is so populated.
        1. your1970
          your1970 31 May 2020 18: 31 New
          -1
          Quote: Zaurbek
          In our company
          -work, not live ... and there the inhabitants are needed !!! that's the problem ...
          1. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek 31 May 2020 22: 36 New
            0
            Trouble is that a young man having a job ...... would take his wife in place and stay with his children ..... who have a place to study. And then get settled.
            1. your1970
              your1970 31 May 2020 22: 40 New
              -2
              Quote: Zaurbek
              Trouble is that a young man having a job ...... would take his wife in place and stay with his children ..... who have a place to study. And then get settled.
              - nevertheless - in spite of very sickly salaries, the availability of work and the opportunity to get an education-- much more left the USSR from Sakhalin than came
              1. Zaurbek
                Zaurbek 1 June 2020 06: 14 New
                0
                So something in this scheme is wrong ....
    2. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk 1 June 2020 15: 00 New
      0
      Quote: Zaurbek

      This issue is solved in one way: the settlement of the islands and normal economic activity ... and the stimulation of the population to live there and

      Stupidity is utter. In order for the Japanese to stop dreaming of returning the Habomai archipelago, should they be populated? And what is the economic feasibility in this?
      Some are better at chewing than talking.
  • Ravil_Asnafovich
    Ravil_Asnafovich 30 May 2020 09: 26 New
    0
    No problem, leaflets with photos of the capture of the Kwantung Army, dumped on Japan.
  • steelmaker
    steelmaker 30 May 2020 09: 54 New
    +2
    As soon as our powerful leaders - Khrushchev, Gorbachev, Yeltsin, Putin, raise the topic of the Kuril Islands (start bargaining), the Japanese immediately remember about "their islands." I don’t remember that under Brezhnev these topics were raised so sharply. Therefore, our leaders must stop bargaining in Russian land and there will be no problems !!
  • Atlant-1164
    Atlant-1164 30 May 2020 10: 08 New
    +7
    "How to discourage" samurai "from talking about revenge on the Kuriles: reflections with a military component"
    - This requires political strength and the will of those who hold power. from their behavior, and decisions .. and the samurai will jump
  • Radikal
    Radikal 30 May 2020 10: 48 New
    +2
    How to discourage “samurai” from talking about revenge in the Kuril Islands:
    Just do not give a reason for such conversations, and do not wave a "carrot" in front of them in the form of at least an ephemeral possibility of transferring to them something similar to land in the ocean. In short, they themselves are to blame! wassat
  • borys
    borys 30 May 2020 10: 57 New
    +1
    I will correct Stalevar a little. Under Brezhnev, the Japanese tried to raise
    the question of the Kuril Islands. But Leonid Ilyich (for all his flaws)
    I was not a weakling and companion. His answer to the Japanese was simple: "We don't know
    no territorial issue and nothing to say. "The Japanese for a long time
    stalled. Then Spotted appeared and raised this question himself. Current
    The guarantor also talked about the islands. Here are the Japanese and cheered up. From here
    it is clear - Brezhnev’s position is the most correct and reasonable. Respect those
    who respects himself.
  • Pvi1206
    Pvi1206 30 May 2020 11: 12 New
    0
    this is the national idea of ​​Japan ... they will not abandon it ...
    1. cniza
      cniza 30 May 2020 18: 02 New
      +2
      Quote: Pvi1206
      this is the national idea of ​​Japan ... they will not abandon it ...


      So on health, even if it remains a pipe dream ...
    2. Mouse
      Mouse 30 May 2020 19: 29 New
      +1
      Let the saliva drown .... wink
  • ruivit1988
    ruivit1988 30 May 2020 11: 20 New
    +1
    In the event of an attack or landing on our smoked Japanese troops, our Foreign Ministry will respond with terrible concern. Russia will make a terrible, just a terrible answer, almost ban our citizens from buying taetas. I wang such actions, unfortunately I don’t see what we can answer.
    1. sleeve
      sleeve 30 May 2020 11: 40 New
      0
      When to answer? Now? It is better for the Japanese to wait until we get ready and, emboldened, abandon the current doctrine of the use of nuclear forces. Now everything will be one gate. And with dire consequences for the "world economy." Yes, there is, in principle, little negative in the perspective of confrontation now for Russia in the transition to the hot phase.
  • sleeve
    sleeve 30 May 2020 11: 36 New
    +1
    No, well, a normal article. A draft for such a complete brochure like "Where the Threat to Peace Comes From". We add, nevertheless, a historical excursion about the "significance" of the islands for Japan and what they were, in principle, and to what extent their "exploitation" was tied to the truly occupied Sakhalin. The thesis is the general concept of all treaties from 18 ... shaggy to now, and note the "character" of Japanese diplomatic thought. And in the "military" part of the article, tell about the benefits of the Sea of ​​Okhotsk for us, about the "Kuril fence" around it and what else needs to be done to maintain it. About the concept of defense by light forces and depl in the conditions of coastal air defense zones. About strengthening the coastal component and its real task in the issue of defense not only of a piece of land, but also as a "chord of a symphony". And there are still a couple of three theses and let's go watch the discussion born on the entomu. True, without the participation of the Japanese side due to the lack of a solid basis for this discussion.
  • fif21
    fif21 30 May 2020 12: 15 New
    0
    The war with Japan must be ended! Complete what started in 1945, and not on paper. Their Wishlist has no political decision! request
  • Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 30 May 2020 12: 29 New
    +4
    I was interested in this message somewhat on the other hand. 1300 kilometers is a sufficient range for a threat to our Far East, the Kuril Islands and Sakhalin in particular. The appearance of such weapons, if ignored on our part, really changes the balance of power in the region.

    Does not change. It’s just a rocket, and you don’t need to give it the power of a prodigy.
    We will not soon "catch up and overtake" the Japanese Navy

    This is hardly likely to happen.
    Destroying a port or even an entire coastal city today is not a problem for some countries. This does not require any armada of ships or aircraft.

    Nuclear weapons - yes.
    The fact that for many decades it was the pride of the Americans, I mean aircraft carriers, today are just ordinary, very convenient targets. It is almost impossible to ensure their complete safety in coastal waters.

    laughing Ensuring their destruction in our waters by a force of forces available today in the Far East is almost impossible. And to destroy them off the coast of Japan was almost impossible even for the USSR
    So, the Kuril Islands must be reliably protected. They are so protected as to completely eliminate the landing or destruction from the air.

    fool It is interesting how it is possible to protect the Kuril Islands from neighboring Japan with its population almost equal to Russia and aviation numbering about 330 combat aircraft alone.
    Missile boats and diesel submarines are quite suitable for such a "heart-to-heart talk". Well armed and inconspicuous for the enemy, they can bring the fleet a lot of problems. Even large warships. Not to mention the auxiliary fleet.

    Yes Yes. Especially diesel submarines, which are proposed to be thrown at the full power of the Japanese submarine and which, whatever one may say, are sometimes forced to recharge their batteries. This can’t even be called delirium.
  • Fmax
    Fmax 30 May 2020 12: 55 New
    -2
    You need 20 pieces of potted ones and 8 22350M pieces at the Far Eastern Federal District, plus a couple of aircraft carriers, a set of submarines and nuclear weapons aimed at Japan. Another option is to poplar poplar in Tokyo and squeeze hokkaido ...
  • bandabas
    bandabas 30 May 2020 13: 13 New
    -1
    Yes, you can still give Finns and Norgs pieces of Karelia and the Kola Peninsula. Let the Russian learn useful.
    1. bandabas
      bandabas 30 May 2020 18: 18 New
      0
      I meant not in the sense of "bestowal", but in the sense - learn Russian, it will come in handy.
  • Vladimir SHajkin
    Vladimir SHajkin 30 May 2020 15: 04 New
    +1
    Anyone who has ever practiced martial arts knows him well.

    As soon as I read it, I immediately understood the development of the author’s thoughts - block, attack. However, the author completely forgot that for every power there is even greater power.
    We believed that such a concession was not of particular importance to the USSR. There are desert islands that were used only by fishermen and the military. These islands also have no defense significance. But the friendship that we wanted to win from the Japanese people would have tremendous significance. Therefore, territorial concessions would more than be blocked by the new relations that would have developed between the peoples of the Soviet Union and Japan.

    I think that this declaration was a serious mistake of the foreign ministry and the political course of the then leadership of the USSR and it remains to this day.
    As you know from history, peace treaties are very easily violated or disavowed, under various, including far-fetched, pretexts, but the territory cannot be returned, only by conquest. Therefore, in order to discourage the "samurai", it is necessary to declare that the proposal of the USSR from 1956 has ceased to be relevant and the political leadership of the Russian Federation is withdrawing it. Thus, the chance that was and remains with the "samurai" disappears and they will have to start all over again.
    If they do not understand, and most likely it will be, only forcing peace through pressure or military action will allow us to stop talking for a while.
  • Oleg Zorin
    Oleg Zorin 30 May 2020 15: 28 New
    +1
    Horror, not an article, but incoherent nonsense
  • NF68
    NF68 30 May 2020 16: 24 New
    +1
    Few of them were smashed in August 1945.
    1. cniza
      cniza 30 May 2020 17: 59 New
      +3
      Quote: NF68
      Few of them were smashed in August 1945.


      It was necessary to take more territories from them and to force them to sign documents, then such an opportunity was ...
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 30 May 2020 16: 31 New
    +2
    We are not able to shut the mouth of striped and lackeys, as they say on someone else’s mouth, you can’t put on a handkerchief, but we are able to turn them into ashes and that’s it. And it is not necessary to drag the economy here, although this is the most important component of the existence of any country, it does not matter for a long time and in the process of military confrontation with the use of modern nuclear weapons. The weakness of our economy will become in its entire gigantic growth only in the event of a war being a conventional weapon, but we will not wait until the kirdyk comes to us. hi
    1. cniza
      cniza 30 May 2020 17: 57 New
      +1
      Quote: Ros 56
      but we will not wait until the kirdyk comes to us. hi


      This is the only thing that holds them back ...
      1. Ros 56
        Ros 56 31 May 2020 07: 22 New
        0
        Therefore, all Western whining is not worth a penny, in fact it is a chain that keeps the dogs on a leash and prevents them from reaching us. So you just need to do what we need, as the owners do in normal houses. We need to work, develop and periodically clean up and shake garbage from the system of power and management.
        1. cniza
          cniza 31 May 2020 08: 43 New
          +1
          Everything is correct, but the wars are now completely different, and the damage can be very large, here the solution is on a different plane and we have one - the truth.
  • Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 30 May 2020 16: 40 New
    +1
    Do not recognize this as a problem or cause for discussion. To conduct diplomatic activities with Japan without taking this issue into account, and to avoid discussions in which this issue is somehow relevant.
    Japan is our traditional a competitor in the Far East, now she is also an ally of the United States, in fact an outpost of US forces in Asia. We won’t do anything about it.
    So it’s better to stay with your own and be ready for the next first move on the part of the Japanese - to calculate how this can happen from a military point of view and have action plans.
    This is the best we can do in this situation.
    1. cniza
      cniza 30 May 2020 17: 56 New
      +1
      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
      Now she is also an ally of the United States, in fact an outpost of US forces in Asia.


      She is a vassal and chain dog of the USA ...
  • cniza
    cniza 30 May 2020 17: 49 New
    +1
    As long as the country remains occupied by the United States, the Japanese will be forced to fulfill the will of their masters, which means it is useless to appeal to common sense, logic or history.


    Here is the answer to the question of the article ...
  • frols
    frols 30 May 2020 18: 16 New
    +1
    Yes, what kind of samurai are there, how many American bases are there and how they behave there. It's just jackals yapping on the order, well, just like our politicians (in Latvia) are all scamming and screaming about threats, and they are cutting the budget for themselves.
  • evgen1221
    evgen1221 30 May 2020 20: 20 New
    0
    How to discourage speak? And nobody is going to raise the living standards of the population and the country from ear to foot? And there you look and dare not dare to.
  • madjik
    madjik 30 May 2020 22: 44 New
    0
    many letters about anything! yapi will not climb
  • Phoenix040
    Phoenix040 30 May 2020 23: 01 New
    +3
    Khrushchev is a liar and generally not a smart, uneducated person .... The islands are inhabited, today 2820 citizens of the Russian Federation live on Shikotan, for many, this is their homeland and they voted against transferring the island of Japan ... Only traitors or fascists can take away a person’s homeland ... Though I’m not from the Kuril Islands, I will consider the transfer of the Kuril Islands, or parts of Japan, to be treason, and I will never forgive anyone ... In addition, the straits around Shikotan are ice-free and are of strategic importance for the military and merchant fleets of the Russian Federation ... Shikotan itself has large deposits of expensive rare-earth elements, and coastal waters are rich in fish ... It's a lot of money and changing all this for a fleeting friendship with Japan, which has always been a strategic adversary of Russia, is simply criminal ... The population of Japan itself is declining, just little hands Japs raking ...
  • Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 30 May 2020 23: 54 New
    0
    "Lousy" with the Kuril Islands is tired! Instead of specifically declaring long ago to the whole world and to the Russians that "The Kuriles are ours forever!" , in the country's leadership - only incomprehensible "floundering" already from the "Gorby period"! All these "Kremlin statements" ... "Moscow's reaction to Tokyo's statements" resemble the "mental anguish" of a person who wants to eat a fish and sleep with a man, keeping her innocence! Recently, on "TV" they showed how Putin was asked about his attitude to the proposal to introduce into the constitution a provision on the impossibility of territorial concessions to anyone ... and also mentioned the Kuriles! And what ? It was clear that Putin hesitated in the first seconds! I got the impression that the ruling regime is still thinking about transferring the Kuriles to Japan!
  • DimanC
    DimanC 31 May 2020 03: 16 New
    0
    Today, Japan, with all due respect to the Japanese people, is just one of the dogs in the American pack. As long as the country remains occupied by the United States, the Japanese will be forced to fulfill the will of their masters, which means it is useless to appeal to common sense, logic or history.

    Only instincts remain. In particular, the instinct of self-preservation.

    The Japanese didn’t even have the last - such a good occupation that the Japanese as a nation are simply dying out.
  • Radikal
    Radikal 31 May 2020 19: 28 New
    +1
    Quote: Radikal
    How to discourage “samurai” from talking about revenge in the Kuril Islands:
    Just do not give a reason for such conversations, and do not wave a "carrot" in front of them in the form of at least an ephemeral possibility of transferring to them something similar to land in the ocean. In short, they themselves are to blame! wassat

    Here is another answer to the author of the article -
    http://www.velykoross.ru/news/all/article_5770/?utm_source=politobzor.net
  • Foxmara
    Foxmara 1 June 2020 00: 00 New
    0
    Fans of extreme sports can be advised to declare an ultimatum to Japan. Here the Japanese will be surprised. And offer to sign the surrender, since the peace treaty abhor them. Otherwise, promise to use force. Nuclear. They love it. The deadline is five hours. I have the honor))
  • Revolver
    Revolver 1 June 2020 01: 08 New
    0
    Even taking into account the fact that the Pacific Fleet (not counting the carriers of the vigorous loaf) by the Japanese self-defense forces for one bite, there will be no attempt to take the islands by force. If only because only direct material losses to Japan will be such that no benefits from owning the islands will not pay for many decades. And if you consider that there will be both indirect and intangible, but still very painful, do they need it? Now, if at some point the losses become significantly less than the benefits, then they may also try to restore the border according to the Portsmouth agreement of 1905.