Military Review

A consignment of mortars "Sled" has been sent to the troops

91

The batch of improved mortar installations 2C12A "Sani" entered service with the Russian army. They were made as part of the state defense order of the Central Research Institute "Petrel", which is a structural unit of the concern "Uralvagonzavod" (state corporation "Rostec").


About this news agency Interfax told today in the press service of UVZ.

Representatives of the concern that the shipment of modernized mortar systems of caliber 120 mm was made "in the interests of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation."

Complex 2C12A "Sled" can be used for mounted fire on manpower and enemy equipment, located both openly and in shelters. In addition, the "Sled" can be used in mountainous areas to destroy the enemy in the depths of the gorges and on the slopes on the back side.



According to Vladimir Mezhinsky, director of production at the Burevestnik Central Research Institute, the mortar complex includes a 2B11 mortar of 120 mm caliber, a 2L81 wheel drive and a transportation vehicle based on the Ural-43206 car. Greatest firing range of this weapons exceeds 7 kilometers. From this mortar it is possible to aim up to 15 rounds per minute. It takes three minutes to transfer the complex from a traveling state to a combat one and vice versa.
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  1. Thrall
    Thrall 28 May 2020 12: 52 New
    13
    Correctly. Get your sleigh ready in the summer! smile
    1. novel66
      novel66 28 May 2020 13: 00 New
      0
      and about the brownie - "here's a sleigh for you, come with us"
    2. Lopatov
      Lopatov 28 May 2020 13: 01 New
      15
      Quote: Thrall
      Correctly. Get your sleigh ready in the summer! smile

      Ready for a long time. They are still Soviet.
      Save ...
      The base plate was changed. Well, "Shisharik" to the two-axle "Ural". The last century, in short.
      1. knn54
        knn54 28 May 2020 13: 25 New
        -6
        Wait, in the future, they will put on "Armata" (for increased protection of the calculation).
      2. novel66
        novel66 28 May 2020 13: 40 New
        -1
        and modern long-range? or more precisely? or is a mine more powerful?
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 28 May 2020 13: 46 New
          +8
          Quote: novel xnumx
          and modern long-range? or more precisely? or is a mine more powerful?

          Together.
        2. Pashhenko Nikolay
          Pashhenko Nikolay 28 May 2020 17: 02 New
          +5
          Modern mobile. Such calibers should be self-propelled. And do not wait on the spot when it arrives in response.
      3. svp67
        svp67 28 May 2020 13: 41 New
        +9
        Quote: Spade
        The last century, in short.

        Hmm, they would at least somehow come up with the possibility of using it from the back of a truck, that would be good. And so really ... we repeat the long gone
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 28 May 2020 13: 44 New
          +6
          Quote: svp67
          they would at least somehow come up with

          1. svp67
            svp67 28 May 2020 13: 54 New
            0
            Not bad, especially since you can use a pickup truck based on an UAZ-Patriot as a tractor,
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 28 May 2020 14: 03 New
              +6
              Quote: svp67
              pickup based on UAZ-Patriot use

              Don't you feel sorry for the mortars?
              Still, they have fire within the battalion defense area ..
              1. svp67
                svp67 28 May 2020 14: 05 New
                0
                Quote: Spade
                Don't you feel sorry for the mortars?
                Still, they have fire within the battalion defense area ..

                Everyone is sorry, but what to do ...
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 28 May 2020 14: 16 New
                  +5
                  Quote: svp67
                  Everyone is sorry, but what to do ...

                  What to do?
                  Normal mortar on a normal base.
                  1. svp67
                    svp67 28 May 2020 15: 16 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Spade
                    Normal mortar on a normal base.

                    What do you think it is? Self-propelled? Like a "Swedish double-barreled gun"?
                    1. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 28 May 2020 18: 27 New
                      +4
                      Quote: svp67
                      And what do you think? Self-propelled?

                      Yes.
                      At the same base as the infantry.
            2. Boratsagdiev
              Boratsagdiev 28 May 2020 16: 16 New
              +4
              "Highlander" - successfully tested.
              UAZ is not needed)
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 28 May 2020 18: 33 New
                +4
                Quote: BoratSagdiev
                "Highlander" - successfully tested.

                laughing
                And showed his microscopic BK, lack of patency, the general inconvenience of the design?

                They took a good system, once developed for installation on an infantry fighting vehicle (for company mortar platoons) and screwed it onto a machine that absolutely does not fit
                1. svp67
                  svp67 28 May 2020 19: 02 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Spade
                  They took a good system, once developed for installation on an infantry fighting vehicle (for company mortar platoons) and screwed it onto a machine that absolutely does not fit

                  Quote: Spade
                  They took a good system, once developed for installation on an infantry fighting vehicle (for company mortar platoons) and screwed it onto a machine that absolutely does not fit

                  And I do not understand what is interfering:
                  - again "fasten" its BMP-1,2 or MTLB (there are still plenty of them)
                  - and if you really use the "Tiger-Highlander" bundle, attach a two-axle trailer to it with a spare w / c
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 28 May 2020 19: 27 New
                    0
                    Quote: svp67
                    And I do not understand what is interfering:
                    - again "fasten" its BMP-1,2 or MTLB (there are still plenty of them)

                    No ideas at all. In addition to corruption.

                    Quote: svp67
                    - and if you really use the "Tiger-Highlander" bundle, attach a two-axle trailer to it with a spare w / c

                    The "Tiger-Highlander" has lower mobility than even the "Sanya"
          2. neri73-r
            neri73-r 28 May 2020 16: 13 New
            0
            Interestingly, this stray (that in the picture as a whole), especially its electronic part, in metal, at least once, was made and tested in the complex ???
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 28 May 2020 18: 34 New
              +2
              Quote: neri73-r
              Interestingly, this stray (that in the picture as a whole), especially its electronic part, in metal, at least once, was made and tested in the complex ???

              She is in service. In every "light" American brigade. At the company and battalion level.
              1. neri73-r
                neri73-r 28 May 2020 22: 05 New
                0
                Quote: Spade
                She is in service. In every "light" American brigade. At the company and battalion level.

                You surprised me. Interestingly, what is not shown at parades and delivered as "carts" to Syria?
                1. neri73-r
                  neri73-r 28 May 2020 22: 09 New
                  0
                  In every "light" American brigade.

                  Fuck a fly that you pin me up?!? I'm talking about ours !!!!!
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 29 May 2020 09: 23 New
                    +2
                    Quote: neri73-r
                    I'm talking about ours !!!!!

                    And I'm talking about the Americans.
                    They solved the problem of informatization of a 120 mm mortar.
                    1. neri73-r
                      neri73-r 29 May 2020 10: 59 New
                      0
                      Quote: Spade
                      And I'm talking about the Americans.

                      I was sure that our trailer was in the photo. That's just embarrassed by the electronic part.
                      1. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 29 May 2020 11: 27 New
                        +2
                        Quote: neri73-r
                        That's just embarrassed by the electronic part.

                        Correctly confused.
                        Despite the many proposals from the military-industrial complex, the Ministry of Defense stubbornly saves on the informatization of artillery.
                      2. neri73-r
                        neri73-r 29 May 2020 12: 11 New
                        0
                        Quote: Spade
                        Despite the many proposals from the military-industrial complex, the Ministry of Defense stubbornly saves on the informatization of artillery.

                        Or maybe the management knows the capabilities of our electronic warfare and believes that the electronic part can be easily demolished or jammed?
                      3. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 29 May 2020 21: 45 New
                        0
                        Quote: neri73-r
                        Or maybe the management knows the capabilities of our electronic warfare and believes that the electronic part can be easily demolished or jammed?

                        laughing
                        So far, not a single electronic warfare system has learned, for example, to influence the information supplied by cable. Or the gyrocompass, which, by the way, will orient the mortar more precisely.
                        And so on.
  2. gorenina91
    gorenina91 29 May 2020 03: 31 New
    0
    -Middle of the last century ...
  3. venik
    venik 29 May 2020 08: 28 New
    0
    Quote: Spade
    The last century, in short.

    =======
    And what is fundamentally new can come up with a regimental mortar ??? request
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 29 May 2020 09: 32 New
      +3
      Quote: venik
      And what is fundamentally new can come up with a regimental mortar ???

      For the cart?
      Long barrel. Informatization, self-locking system, self-orientation system, a system for determining the position of the barrel in space, a feedback system that signals the SSS about readiness for firing, a computer working in the fire department network, with an indication system to the commander and gunner, as well as a data input system in fuses.
      And all this is in an armored car. Able to transport mortar both inside and in tow. And with a normal carrying BC. It is very desirable to keep the BC not in a regular capping, but in specialized protected containers
      1. venik
        venik 29 May 2020 13: 56 New
        0
        Quote: Spade
        Quote: venik
        And what is fundamentally new can come up with a regimental mortar ???

        For the cart?
        Long barrel. Informatization, self-locking system, self-orientation system, a system for determining the position of the barrel in space, a feedback system that signals the SSS about readiness for firing, a computer working in the fire department network, with an indication system to the commander and gunner, as well as a data input system in fuses.
        And all this is in an armored car. Able to transport mortar both inside and in tow. And with a normal carrying BC. It is very desirable to keep the BC not in a regular capping, but in specialized protected containers

        =========
        AND WHAT IS NEW IN PRINCIPAL? Except just the "long barrel"? All the rest can be equipped with mortars from the Second World War!
        Speaking of the "long barrel": HOW are you going to throw mines there (into the barrel)? Or make it "breech-loading", like the M-160 model of 1943? Tick ​​rate of fire will drop .....
        And then I asked about the PRINCIPAL novelty!
        1. bk0010
          bk0010 29 May 2020 16: 17 New
          +1
          Tell me, for you between FAA-1 and Tomahawk there is no fundamental difference either (forget about range for simplicity)?
          1. venik
            venik 29 May 2020 21: 47 New
            0
            Quote: bk0010
            Tell me, for you between FAA-1 and Tomahawk there is no fundamental difference either (forget about range for simplicity)?

            =======
            Here, the difference is what it is, and - PRINCIPAL! If you DO NOT UNDERSTAND IT, then at least compare TTX V-2 and BGM-109! IMPRESSIVE? Yes!
            And now compare the performance characteristics of any mortars of World War II and compare with the performance characteristics of MODERN analogues ... Impressive? No!
            Summary: The OPTIMAL mortar design was worked out THEN - during the Second World War, and then: the PIPE - she and "in Africa - the PIPE"! If it is made of good metal, processed, on modern machines, then the design of the 40s of the PAST century will not yield to the super-modern design in terms of performance characteristics !!! And if he does concede, then it is absolutely INSIGNIFICANT!
            All development in this area is on the way to improving ammunition and guidance and fire control systems! That, as a matter of fact, it is quite possible to apply to the "ancient" constructions (and with no less success!).
            PS It is strange that you "do not catch up"! Or "comment" - so, for the sake of a "catch phrase"?
            1. bk0010
              bk0010 29 May 2020 22: 09 New
              0
              Quote: venik
              And now compare the performance characteristics of any mortars of World War II and compare with the performance characteristics of MODERN analogues ... Impressive? No!
              It depends on what to compare. Firing range - no, the consumption of mines for the task due to increased accuracy - yes.
              Quote: venik
              That, as a matter of fact, it is quite possible to apply to the "ancient" constructions (and with no less success!).
              If all this is applied to ancient structures, they will become modern. Understand, if you compare the three-ruler and the SVD according to your criteria, you will get the same thing: range, slaughter. But SVD is more modern! If you carefully make a three-ruler and fasten PSO-1 onto it, will it be an old or already modern rifle? IMHO - modern.
              1. venik
                venik 30 May 2020 00: 03 New
                0
                Quote: bk0010
                Understand, if you compare the three-ruler and the SVD according to your criteria, you will get the same thing: range, slaughter. But SVD is more modern!

                =======
                It's funny By the way, their ballistics is almost the same!
                If you want, I can tell you a VERY interesting story, but only in a "personal" - not figs busy in the "load" ...
                1. bk0010
                  bk0010 30 May 2020 18: 11 New
                  0
                  Quote: venik
                  It's funny By the way, their ballistics is almost the same!
                  Yes? This is good: I thought that the ballistics of the SVD were spoiled when adapting rifling to a heavy cartridge.
                  Quote: venik
                  If you want, I can tell you a VERY interesting story, but only in a "personal" - not figs busy in the "load" ...
                  Thanks, no. But if you decide to post it here, I will read it with pleasure.
        2. Lopatov
          Lopatov 29 May 2020 21: 43 New
          0
          Quote: venik
          And WHAT is fundamentally new here?

          All.
          For COMPLEX works.
          Both the penny Lada and the Ferrari Enzo use hex nuts. You will not be based on this fact to declare that there is no difference between these machines?

          Quote: venik
          Speaking of the "long barrel": HOW are you going to throw mines there (into the barrel)?

          With stools laughing . Americans are quite happy with this option


          Quote: venik
          Or make it "breech-loading", like the M-160 model of 1943? Tick ​​rate of fire will drop .....

          Question: what is the rate of fire of the 2B23 "Nona-M1". Which you seem to have not heard of laughing
          1. venik
            venik 29 May 2020 23: 46 New
            0
            Quote: Spade
            Question: what is the rate of fire of the 2B23 "Nona-M1". Which you seem to have not heard of

            ========
            Not just HEARD, but SEEN! And not only shooting, but also RESULTS!
            Impressive !!! Unless, of course, to ....... (some "results") don't look too closely ... Otherwise - "turn it inside out" can .....
            -----
            Quote: Spade
            With stools laughing. Americans are quite happy with this option

            ========
            fool Well then, we will assume that THIS is the best that the Americans have brought to the theory of mortars!
            ------
            Quote: Spade
            For COMPLEX works.

            ========
            So I wrote about WHAT ??? "Trumpet" - it is also a PIPE in Africa! And no more!
            WHAT is the difference between a mortar of WWII construction, equipped with all the "bells and whistles" you mentioned, from the "supermodern" one developed half a year ago?

            PS About "Zhiguli" and "Ferrari" - let's talk some other time!
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 30 May 2020 08: 56 New
              -1
              Quote: venik
              WHAT is the difference between a mortar of WWII construction, equipped with all the "bells and whistles" you mentioned, from the "supermodern" one developed half a year ago?

  • The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  • Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 28 May 2020 12: 59 New
    -6
    And what, an excellent mortar ... not "Hammer", tea ... tongue
    1. Kuroneko
      Kuroneko 28 May 2020 14: 25 New
      12
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      And what, an excellent mortar ... not "Hammer", tea ...

      "Hammer" - this is the Soviet 2B11 spoiled by khokhlov.
      1. Mountain shooter
        Mountain shooter 28 May 2020 15: 55 New
        -5
        Quote: Kuroneko
        "Hammer" - this is the Soviet 2B11 spoiled by khokhlov

        What am I talking about? Or can I confuse "Sled" with "Hammer"?
        1. Kuroneko
          Kuroneko 29 May 2020 00: 48 New
          0
          Quote: Mountain Shooter
          What am I talking about? Or can I confuse "Sled" with "Hammer"?

          Well, actually, there is a certain confusion on your part, since you are comparing "Hammer" and "Sleigh". "Hammer" is the name of the hohlo-mortar, and our "Sleds" is the name COMPLEX (which, in addition to the 2B11 mortar itself, also includes a wheel drive and "Ural").
          By the way, the author of this news article made exactly the same mistake. He was supposed to write not "A batch of Sany mortars was sent to the troops," but "A batch of mortar complexes "Sleigh" ". = _ = Our mortar has no proper name, only an army index.
  • Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 28 May 2020 13: 06 New
    +3
    15 rounds per minute.
    too, 120 mm mortar calculation of the Shumov brothers
    In the battles for the village of Krasnoye on January 16, 1944, mortar men skillfully fought counter-battery combat with the enemy, firing at least 15 minutes per minute through the enemy.

    although there is such a thing:
    Harkal eighteen min per minute
    Shumovsky heavy mortar.
    A. Prokofiev, the poem "Russia" 1943-44.
  • Doccor18
    Doccor18 28 May 2020 13: 15 New
    +8
    How many total of these complexes did Rostec deliver? Party is a blurred word. How many? I hope for a few dozen. Sani Burevestnik back in 1978 developed. Since 1981 in the army. Of course, it's time to modernize the mortar systems in the troops at an accelerated pace. Does the self-propelled dilemma also enter the troops?
  • naburkin
    naburkin 28 May 2020 13: 22 New
    +1
    I wonder if it is connected with the aggravation in the Donbass? Old ones should be "written off" somewhere winked
  • GMM
    GMM 28 May 2020 13: 32 New
    -14
    Does the "Sani" mortar belong to conventional weapons or unique and unparalleled in the world?
    1. neri73-r
      neri73-r 28 May 2020 16: 16 New
      +3
      Quote: mmg
      Does the "Sani" mortar belong to conventional weapons or unique and unparalleled in the world?

      No, it is unpleasant for the enemy! tongue
  • Zomanus
    Zomanus 28 May 2020 13: 35 New
    -1
    But I wonder what can be improved there? In this pipe with legs ...
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 28 May 2020 13: 51 New
      11
      Quote: Zomanus
      But I wonder what can be improved there?

      You can.
      Now you can change the guidance sector without pulling out the plate. Which is much faster. And more consistent with modern realities.
      1. bk0010
        bk0010 28 May 2020 17: 32 New
        0
        Do we still have a tablet for guidance, like terrorists?
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 28 May 2020 18: 42 New
          +3
          Quote: bk0010
          Do we still have a tablet for guidance, like terrorists?

          No.
          And even those that were purchased with their own money are also forbidden to use.
          1. bk0010
            bk0010 28 May 2020 21: 26 New
            -2
            Quote: Spade
            And even those that were purchased with their own money are also forbidden to use.
            Oh nifiga to myself! What motivates you? Violation of the regime (OVT without SP and SI) or simply so that life does not seem to be honey?
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 29 May 2020 09: 20 New
              +1
              Quote: bk0010
              Oh nifiga to myself! What motivates you? Violation of the regime

              All tablet phones with advanced "computer functions" are prohibited.
    2. KVU-NSVD
      KVU-NSVD 28 May 2020 15: 19 New
      0
      Quote: Zomanus
      In this pipe with legs ...

      Not with legs, but with a two-leg carriage with devices for aiming in range and turn
      what can be improved there? AT
      Fundamentally nothing .. and inappropriately spoil a good and reliable unit.
  • APASUS
    APASUS 28 May 2020 13: 44 New
    +1
    Why the army is armed with mortars of the Second World War. When will the era of self-propelled artillery and mortar mount come in our armed forces?
    1. askort154
      askort154 28 May 2020 14: 11 New
      +4
      APASUS .....Why the army is armed with mortars from the Second World War. When will the era of self-propelled artillery and mortar mount come in our armed forces?

      I’m never an artilleryman, but I’ve heard the self-propelled guns: Msta, Tulip, Malka, Nona.
    2. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 28 May 2020 14: 57 New
      +2
      Quote: APASUS
      When will the era of self-propelled artillery and mortar mount come in our armed forces?

      If there are self-propelled guns "around", then the fig will need mortars, albeit self-propelled? request
      1. KVU-NSVD
        KVU-NSVD 28 May 2020 15: 23 New
        +2
        Quote: Nikolaevich I
        If there are self-propelled guns "around", then the fig will need mortars, albeit self-propelled?

        all for the same - mounted (cross over) firing in the interests of the tactical link of the company - a battalion at short ranges in manpower, fortifications and lightly armored vehicles
        1. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 28 May 2020 15: 39 New
          +3
          For this there is a self-propelled gun, armed with "single" type 2A51 / 80 ...! For example, 2C9 "Nona" ... from the "old"!
          1. KVU-NSVD
            KVU-NSVD 28 May 2020 16: 18 New
            +2
            For those tasks that are solved with mortars 82 - 120 mm self-propelled guns are unnecessary. The mortar battery attached to the battalion is much cheaper in cost and maintenance than the self-propelled battery
            1. strannik1985
              strannik1985 28 May 2020 16: 55 New
              +2
              For those tasks that are solved by mortars

              Against a more or less modern enemy, they are disposable. Even KSAUO 83t888 - 1.7 and those are not.
              1. KVU-NSVD
                KVU-NSVD 28 May 2020 17: 35 New
                +4
                Quote: strannik1985
                Against a more or less modern adversary, they are disposable

                So to argue, then against the "modern enemy" everything is in one way or another one-time, Yes, there are means of counter-battery warfare, but: a) there are not so many counter-battery complexes b) any artillery systems are vulnerable in counter-battery warfare c) if the mortar is not traced, but in a real trench, it is not so easy to destroy it. I repeat - the advantage of traditional mortars is simplicity, cheapness, mass production and ease of assimilation by unprepared l / s.
                1. strannik1985
                  strannik1985 28 May 2020 18: 01 New
                  +1
                  So reasoning, then against the "modern enemy"

                  Not at all, a short fire raid - moving - a short fire raid. In 2S31, self-locking equipment allows you to open fire on an unplanned target 1 minute after stopping.
                  1. KVU-NSVD
                    KVU-NSVD 28 May 2020 18: 12 New
                    +5
                    Quote: strannik1985
                    short fire attack

                    In artillery, to put it mildly, it is not always possible to cover the target the first time, or rather almost never. Before a volley (or, as you say, with a short fire attack), sighting shots of one of the battery guns usually follow, and not immediately as you think - the battery turned around in a minute, in a minute burst out of all the barrels and in a minute only dust was left from the column. And if the enemy in this sector has counter-battery radars and fire-fighting systems for response, then the battery of self-propelled guns is quite vulnerable. I don’t argue that self-propelled guns are better than towed artillery - I’m just saying that a traditional mortar is a massive, cheap and quite effective weapon.
                    1. strannik1985
                      strannik1985 28 May 2020 19: 08 New
                      +1
                      And if the enemy in this area has counter-battery radars

                      Without taking into account EW ASUNO allows you to disperse the battle order, translating counter-battery into counter-weapons combat.
              2. bk0010
                bk0010 28 May 2020 21: 30 New
                +1
                Quote: strannik1985
                Against a more or less modern enemy, they are disposable.
                Why? They shot, mortars were washed off in the dugout or in the slot, and the mortar was iron, it was hard to destroy it. Yes, and more or less dense shelling at a price higher than the cost of battery mortars.
                1. strannik1985
                  strannik1985 29 May 2020 11: 29 New
                  +1
                  Why? They shot, mortars were washed off in the dugout or in the slot, and the mortar was iron, it was hard to destroy it.

                  The expenditure for suppression (30% loss) of a battery of sheltered towed guns (mortars) 300 120-mm mines or 180 152-mm shells, plus the nuances - if the fire is corrected, the settings for firing are determined by zeroing in the target - the consumption is a quarter less. It will be quite difficult to "wash off into the dugout and sit".
                  At least KSA allows you to disperse the battery so that it is not a group target, then the consumption is completely different.
                  1. bk0010
                    bk0010 29 May 2020 16: 20 New
                    0
                    Quote: strannik1985
                    At least KSA allows you to disperse the battery so that it is not a group target, then the consumption is completely different.
                    I am not at all against the availability of modern automation tools. I just said that the battery of towed mortars is not a kamikaze - there are options.
                    Quote: strannik1985
                    It will be quite difficult to "wash off into the dugout and sit".
                    Why?
            2. Nikolaevich I
              Nikolaevich I 29 May 2020 01: 45 New
              +1
              Quote: KVU-NSVD
              For those tasks that are solved with mortars 82 - 120 mm self-propelled guns are unnecessary. The mortar battery attached to the battalion is much cheaper in cost and maintenance than the self-propelled battery

              Duc, tady must be defined: "towed on a hump" mortars, "mortar" self-propelled guns or self-propelled guns! And then I have already ceased to distinguish - "what are you talking about?" ... If we decided to load mortars on platforms, then from a couple: 2S9 "Nona" (self-propelled guns) and "Tundzha" (self-propelled mortar) - I would choose "Nona "! And not only me ... When the military was given a choice of "Nonu-S", "Tundzhu", "Astra", they chose "Nonu-S" and, for some reason, were not impressed with your arguments ... Self-propelled mortars " have a place to be ", but as an additional (!) weapon to the SPG! While self-propelled guns are the main and self-sufficient means of fire suppression of the enemy! Self-propelled mortars may have some "pluses" in front of self-propelled guns such as "Nona-S", "Vienna", "Lotos" ... This, for example, the ability to remove from the "platform" 120-mm or 82-mm mortar (smooth-bore, muzzle-loading ...) and use it in its traditional form where "the armored train will not rush ..."! That is why they "left" 82-mm mortars "Drok" for units such as DRG ... That is, to understand: "for what" - you can ... but "why?" - is already difficult! Install an 82-mm mortar on the chassis and get a "wunderwaflu" weighing over 10 tons and a cost of "roll knows how many times more expensive", both an 82-mm mortar and a chassis taken separately ??
  • KVU-NSVD
    KVU-NSVD 28 May 2020 13: 56 New
    15
    batch of improved mortar installations 2S12A "Sani".
    I looked, looked at the picture, but did not understand how it differs from the 120mm mortar of the 38-63 model on which it mastered its first military-industrial college. I understood from the text that the staffed shishiga in the Urals was changed, and that’s it?
    this mortar can be aimed to make up to 15 rounds per minute.
    With a coordinated calculation, it is possible stably and 16-17
    It takes three minutes to transfer the complex from a traveling state to a combat one and vice versa.
    2min 45 sec from the moment the tractor was stopped (taking into account the movement of the wheel drive not on the fork, but in the body, on the tow 2min 15 sec - the results of our training calculation after a month of classes
    1. Revival
      Revival 28 May 2020 14: 05 New
      -3
      "I looked, looked at the picture, but I still did not understand how it differs from the 120mm mortar of the 38-63 model, on which I mastered my first VUS."

      And he does not differ from 38 years)))
      1. neri73-r
        neri73-r 28 May 2020 16: 18 New
        -4
        Quote: Revival
        And he does not differ from 38 years)))

        The main thing that would be different from the 37th. wassat
      2. Lopatov
        Lopatov 28 May 2020 18: 44 New
        0
        Quote: Revival
        And he does not differ from 38 years)))

        Very different.
        Easy wheeled drive from just 500 km. resource. Because at the old normal it’s too hard to manually pull the mortar into the car
  • Revival
    Revival 28 May 2020 14: 03 New
    -5
    So what is the know-how?
    Why is there no news about the delivery of the next cartridge to the machine, in terms of value and novelty, would it not be inferior to this news?
    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 28 May 2020 15: 12 New
      +3
      Quote: Revival
      So what is the know-how?

      What is the "novelty" of modern mortars? What is the essence of cultivation? Modern mortars are being improved in 3 directions: 1. Reducing weight ... (due to the use of strong and light alloys, "composites" ...); 2. Increasing the firing range (due to the use of more durable barrels, base plates while reducing the weight or maintaining the same ... the introduction of more powerful propellant charges); 3. The use of new ammunition of increased power, developed using the latest technology ...
      1. Revival
        Revival 28 May 2020 15: 34 New
        -1
        You mean mortars in general, as I understand it
        1. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 28 May 2020 15: 45 New
          +3
          Quote: Revival
          You mean mortars in general, as I understand it

          You are right ... but in terms of "general concepts", I hinted at the possibility of improving in these "directions" and the mortar system "Sani" ...
  • Evil 55
    Evil 55 28 May 2020 14: 20 New
    -4
    "on the basis of the Ural-43206 car" .. Why didn't they harness the MZKT .. Again, the irrational use of transportation means.
  • GMM
    GMM 28 May 2020 14: 40 New
    -7
    By the way, I found information that it is made using stealth technology.
    If it is put in the bushes, then the mortar coating will merge with the surrounding background, but when used on snow, it is necessary to whiten it, lime is included in the standard kit.
  • steelmaker
    steelmaker 28 May 2020 14: 59 New
    0
    Everything new must be tested in Syria or the Donbass!
  • CommanderDIVA
    CommanderDIVA 28 May 2020 15: 26 New
    -1
    In the mortar, there’s nothing special to modernize except production materials, sights and new ammunition, I read in the media about the use of silent Polish mortars by the ukrovermahtm in the Donbass, most likely we have promising developments in this area, can anyone own the info
  • Snail N9
    Snail N9 28 May 2020 15: 29 New
    -3
    The trunk is long, a rather heavy mine is difficult to load into the trunk with outstretched arms at a high elevation angle, you have to dig under the stove.
    1. fiberboard
      fiberboard 28 May 2020 17: 31 New
      +1
      Why heavy? A little more than 19kg, normal.
    2. Lopatov
      Lopatov 28 May 2020 18: 45 New
      +2
      Quote: Snail N9
      you have to do a dig under the stove.

      laughing
      The mortar does it on its own.
  • fiberboard
    fiberboard 28 May 2020 17: 30 New
    0
    Shot from this in Chechnya, a good thing. I especially liked hanging bulbs.
  • maykl8
    maykl8 28 May 2020 22: 08 New
    +1
    All the novelty in the tractor:

    Options and Modifications
    2С12 - a towed version with a 2F510 transport vehicle on a GAZ-66-05 chassis (4 × 4 wheel arrangement, a set of special equipment 2F32 - a winch equipped with an electric drive, gangways for rolling a mortar on a wheel using a winch, mortar fastening elements in the body , etc.);

    2C12A - an upgraded towed version with a 2F510A transport vehicle on the Ural-43206 chassis (Ural-43206-0551-41 or Ural-43206-0651: 4 × 4 wheel arrangement, a set of 2F32 special equipment - electric winch, gangways, fasteners, etc. );

    2S12B "Dilemma-2S12" - a self-propelled version based on the armored personnel carrier MT-LB.

    The performance characteristics of the mortar 2B11 complex 2S12 Sled
    - Designed: 1979
    - Manufacturer: Uraltransmash (Ekaterinburg), Motovilikhinsky plants (Perm)
    - Total Released: ~ 1500
    - years of operation: 1981 - present vr.
    - Adopted: 1981
    - Crew (calculation), people: 5 people

    Weight of the complex 2S12 Sled

    - mass of mortar 2B11 (fighting position): 210 kg;
    - wheel mass: 115 kg;
    - mass of the mortar complex with a transport vehicle 2F510A (on the Ural-43206-0651 chassis with ammunition): 11 kg;

    Firing range of the 2C12 Sled complex

    - maximum firing range: 7100 m; 9000 m (KM-8 "Face")
    - minimum firing range: 480 m;

    - maximum initial speed of a mine: 325 m / s;
    - aiming rate of fire: up to 10 rds / min .;
    - the time of the transfer of the mortar from traveling to combat and vice versa: no more than 3 minutes;

    - ammunition load: 56 shots .;
    - Sight: MPM-44M

    - Elevation: + 45 ° ... + 80 °
    - Angle of rotation: ± 5 °

    - on impassability on wheels, on dirt and cobblestone roads for short distances (5 ... 10 km): not more than 20 km / h;
    - on an asphalt highway with a wheeled drive, if necessary, over short distances (30 km): not more than 60 km / h.
    1. maykl8
      maykl8 28 May 2020 22: 29 New
      +2
      Here is the complex itself:
  • Gust
    Gust 29 May 2020 12: 42 New
    0
    Well, we got to Sanya;)) We did a great job with the tables too, and experienced officers shot at the same speed as advanced officers;)) (with tablets).
    As for the simplicity of the design, here it is just a virtue. When it is necessary to roll it by calculation along a mountain trail and then drag it on itself. Yes, and in the mountains often does not catch GPS (suddenly).
    About otvetku- one shoots (from the third mine as a rule) and gives corrections, immediately dumping. The rest of them with their PDO hang mines in one gulp along the trajectory and dump them BEFORE the first one falls and explodes. And yes, when firing at a striker in position F, the rate of fire is higher than 10-12 rounds per minute (but this is a secret;)).
    1. maykl8
      maykl8 29 May 2020 18: 54 New
      0
      You have forgotten another important point - "COST" and "TIME". Here the ratio is 1:10 i.e. instead of one 122mm howitzer, ten 120mm mortars can be made.
      Another size capping for ammunition. Capping for 120mm min is two times less than capping of 122mm shells, which means that for transporting ammunition, half the transport is needed and half the space for storage.
      Most importantly, a 120mm mortar can shoot trophy mines of a similar hummingbird.