Castes in the army of modern India. Forgotten problem or hidden?


We all know that Indian society has a unique feature: since ancient times, it has been rigidly divided into social groups that have no analogues in other nations, called castes. Does this division affect military service in the modern armed forces of the country, primarily on the prospects of an officer career? Information on this subject is contradictory.


We will not list the hundred thousandth most complicated hierarchy, consisting of four main classes (varn), supplemented by the despicable class of untouchables. All these groups are divided, in turn, into many “subclasses” and “podcasts” in which you can get lost. We only recall that one of the two castes above all other castes, a ksatriya, at all times was just a military one. In the Middle Ages, when war was a professional matter, a similar restriction may have worked. However, the creation of modern armed forces from only the “chosen” hereditary warriors is completely unrealistic. Especially taking into account the fact that at the moment the Indian army numbers about one and a half million people.

Recruitment for military service in the country is carried out exclusively on a voluntary basis, boys (and even girls) aged 18 to 25 are accepted there. At the same time, the proportion in recruitment is officially observed - about 10% of the number of potential male conscripts in each region. In reality, this is not entirely true. The thing is that since the time of British rule (specifically since the end of the XNUMXth century), the so-called “cool” principle of manning has existed in the Indian army. And it is precisely “exists”, not “existed”! Introduced by the colonialists for the deliberate division into different parts of representatives of various ethnic and religious groups, this principle has perfectly survived the times of India's independence, and, judging by the available data, it is applied by the country's military leadership today.

No, at the official level, all such things are denied the most emphatically. At one time, both the head of the personnel service of the Armed Forces of India and numerous high-ranking staff officers have repeatedly stated that the army is a “secular and apolitical” organization, completely unaffected by any racial, religious, and even more so caste prejudice. It was alleged that the recruitment of representatives of all regions, social strata and religion "is carried out exclusively on a common basis," as well as their further advancement in the career ladder.

Many times, at the highest levels, the leadership of the country has spoken and is talking about caste division as such. It, in fact, was abolished at the constitution level back in 1950. The constitution recognized castes as equal - everything, right down to the untouchables. Discrimination of a person on this basis (including in the sphere of labor or official relations) is a criminal offense. In practice, some changes, of course, are present: in 1997, the representative of the Dalits, that is, all the same untouchables, became the president of the country. They also held other important government posts. Also, according to official figures, among the natives of this caste, the most despicable and oppressed in the past, there are at least 30 millionaires. And still…

“Social elevators” in India work for representatives of the lower classes except in multi-million megalopolises that obliterate almost all the differences. In the outback, in the countryside, the caste system lives on to this day, and those who are in its lower classes have much less life opportunities and prospects. The simplest example is the literacy rate among the Dalits who barely reaches 30%, despite the fact that on a national scale it is 75%. What kind of army (especially officer) career can be discussed? Indeed, when applying for a service in India, the presence of a certificate of at least secondary education is a strictly necessary condition.

The Indian army, contrary to all the loud official statements made in the spirit of tolerance and political correctness, remains a closed conservative structure, living in its centuries-old and rather archaic traditions. Recall that in order to resolve the issue of appointing women to the highest command posts in it, a decision of the Supreme Court was required, adopted literally this year. Official statistics on the racial, religious, and especially caste composition of the armed forces of India and their officer corps are absent as such. As explained in the military department, so that there is no "incitement to hatred." According to unofficial data, at least 70% of the army is equipped with the same principles that have existed for centuries. India has already seen the president from the untouchables. But the general or colonel of them is unlikely to see!
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  1. Santa Fe 30 May 2020 05: 00 New
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    There are castes in many countries, in various professional sectors.

    For example, the caste system of the US Army, where the vast majority of officers are of noble British origin
    1. Observer2014 30 May 2020 07: 13 New
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      Santa Fe (Oleg)
      There are castes in many countries, in various professional sectors.
      Yes. There is. Papa at least a little glavnyuk in the Ministry of Internal Affairs I will son the judge. laughing There is such an elite caste called lol
      1. Santa Fe 30 May 2020 07: 23 New
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        No, you described nepotism

        In Russia, there is no pronounced caste division of professions on a national basis.
        1. Observer2014 30 May 2020 07: 23 New
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          Quote: Santa Fe
          No, you described nepotism

          In Russia, there is no pronounced caste division of professions on a national basis.

          Cronyism is a separate caste laughing But what's the difference?
          1. Santa Fe 30 May 2020 07: 28 New
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            Huge

            If you are an Eskimo by origin (for example), you have to go into the construction business. You should not do anything else in life, this is not for you

            This is called caste. When in every profession there are only people of one nation. Or one origin
            1. Observer2014 30 May 2020 07: 32 New
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              Quote: Santa Fe
              Huge

              If you are an Eskimo by origin (for example), you have to go into the construction business. You should not do anything else in life, this is not for you

              This is called caste. When in every profession there are only people of one nation. Or one origin

              It's great that our country is multinational. And we are not Indians.
              1. 5-9
                5-9 30 May 2020 10: 16 New
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                What country is yours?
                And then in Russia, 82% of Russians and another 5 percent are indistinguishable from them a little and Belarusians ... And according to UN standards, more than 80% is mono-ethnic.
                And the inhabitants of different states of India speak English to each other, and the Dravids are generally a different race, not that their nationality
              2. Observer2014 30 May 2020 10: 36 New
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                Quote: Observer2014
                Quote: Santa Fe
                Huge

                If you are an Eskimo by origin (for example), you have to go into the construction business. You should not do anything else in life, this is not for you

                This is called caste. When in every profession there are only people of one nation. Or one origin

                Is it bad that we are a multinational country? It's cool that we have a multinational country. And we are not Indians.

                laughing Clowns. Is it bad that we are not Indians? laughing Hindus do not worry. You do not concern in any way. Here in another joke bully
        2. Nikolaevich I 30 May 2020 07: 54 New
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          Quote: Santa Fe
          In Russia, there is no pronounced caste division of professions on a national basis.

          In the USSR it was ... I won’t say to what extent and everywhere, but "there was a place to be" ... behind the scenes. And experience "suggests" that if a phenomenon exists for a long time (long), then it will not so easy or quick to get rid of ...
        3. 5-9
          5-9 30 May 2020 10: 13 New
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          The trade in vegetables and fruits is completely under azerbaits, almost all Armenians raised a movie ...
    2. Liam 30 May 2020 07: 32 New
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      Quote: Santa Fe
      There are castes in many countries, in various professional sectors.

      For example, the caste system of the US Army, where the vast majority of officers are of noble British origin

      Do you have statistics on the nationality of US Army and Navy officers?
      1. Observer2014 30 May 2020 07: 36 New
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        Do you have statistics on the nationality of US Army and Navy officers?
        No, but I guess. In general, I do not care about their example. I live in Russia.
        1. Liam 30 May 2020 07: 44 New
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          Quote: Observer2014
          No, but I guess

          A serious argument.
          Quote: Observer2014
          I live in Russia.

          Do you have such statistics for the Russian army?
          1. Observer2014 30 May 2020 07: 45 New
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            And in Russian from close friends and acquaintances I know laughing
      2. Santa Fe 30 May 2020 08: 00 New
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        Yes, everything is obvious, ridiculously

        West Point graduates have reached the heights of a military career. Palmer, Abrams, Rogers, Meyer and dude with the Slavic name Westmoreland

        There are no others there. Even with the current tolerance
        1. Liam 30 May 2020 08: 18 New
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          In general, you do not have any serious data. Even not surprised)
          1. Santa Fe 30 May 2020 08: 41 New
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            You pretend not to notice the obvious

            https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Army_four-star_generals
            1. Liam 30 May 2020 10: 44 New
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              Well, give statistics on their nationality.
            2. Engineer 30 May 2020 12: 24 New
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              https://www.westpoint.edu/admissions/class-profile

              A quarter of West Point women
              If earlier the command staff of the United States could be called a caste, now this bastion is partially destroyed. And in the future, given the trends, it will finally fall
              1. Santa Fe 30 May 2020 21: 37 New
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                given the trends

                What are the trends

                The officer can be gay and female. But necessarily Anglo-Saxon
                1. Engineer 30 May 2020 21: 54 New
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                  But necessarily Anglo-Saxon

                  Heh

                  https://apnews.com/7a1699d3a1134a72ac750e3ee53e9df2/West-Point-gets-1st-black-superintendent-in-216-year-history
                  1. Liam 30 May 2020 22: 02 New
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                    Heh))
                    Charles Frank Bolden (Eng. Charles Frank "Charlie" Bolden, Jr .; born August 19, 1946, Columbia, South Carolina) - retired Major General of the United States Marine Corps (1998), former US astronaut, head of NASA since 2009 January 20, 2017

                    Education

                    US Naval Academy
                    University of Southern California
                    USC Viterbi School of Engineering [d]
                    US Navy Test Pilot School [d]

                    Academic degree

                    US Naval Academy
                    University of Southern California
                    School of test pilots of naval aviation

                    Military service

                    Years of Service
                    1968 - 2004


                    Type of army

                    USMC

                    Rank

                    Major General
                    Commanded
                    1st US Marine Expeditionary Force

                    Battles

                    Vietnam War
                2. Liam 30 May 2020 21: 56 New
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                  Quote: Santa Fe
                  given the trends

                  What are the trends

                  The officer can be gay and female. But necessarily Anglo-Saxon

                  ))) Will it not be difficult to call the Anglo-Saxon country a native of which is the former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff the four-star general Colin Luther Powell for example?
                  1. Oyo Sarkazmi 31 May 2020 12: 52 New
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                    Considering that the blacks of the United States according to the First American ancestor are white (well, they did not allow slaves to black women), then, digging into the pedigree, you can find George Washington there, and you are a general!
                    Obama has a black thoroughbred African dad. But mom is white. And one of the mother’s grandfathers is an Irishman. And Obama is an Irishman, a relative of both Bush and Reagan and Johnson.
                    Since the Irishman, there is someone in the clan to say a word - and you get the role of the vice chairman of the United States.
        2. Liam 30 May 2020 22: 12 New
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          Do you have such surnames from this list as Odierno, Shinseki, Vuono do not cause any doubts about Anglo-Saxon origin?)
          1. Santa Fe 31 May 2020 02: 59 New
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            I’m not familiar with them, but I’m sure that their families spent at least a century in the states and are completely Americanized, this time

            The second - there is some kind of trick, it requires political correctness, but this is a beautiful picture

            Googled Shinseki - the first and so far only four-star general of Asian descent
            1:100

            With this ratio, it can be argued that all command posts are occupied by the Anglo-Saxons
            1. Liam 31 May 2020 13: 13 New
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              Quote: Santa Fe
              it can be argued

              You can say any stupidity if you wish.
              You are captured by Ideas and do not even read your own sources.
              Your link:
              https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Army_four-star_generals
              I looked at the list from the end. In the last hundred generals, I found at least a couple dozen African-Americans, as well as Spanish, Italian, Asian and even Georgian surnames.
              1. Santa Fe 31 May 2020 18: 49 New
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                In the last a hundred discovered at least generals a couple of dozen African Americans, as well as Spanish, Italian, Asian, and even Georgian surnames.

                What you just wrote is usually called the majority. The absolute, overwhelming majority. And once again confirms what I talked about

                As among the uosps, 20% of others are wormed (or you just pretend that you do not notice the reason) - consider the circumstances. Black is a tribute to political correctness. The rest with a postscript - the first general of such and such an origin. As a result, all this is a beautiful picture. All US Leadership Positions Still Occupied

                There are many reasons for this and they are simple.
                Anglo-Saxons most
                They arrived before everyone else
                Among the wealthy strata their absolute majority
                Only wealthy people can educate children on officers or lawyers - where is the way to go to leadership of the country. The rest of the limit there is classy alien
    3. g1v2 30 May 2020 17: 54 New
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      In this case, it is still more interesting. A study of the haplogroups of India shows that the higher and lower castes have different haplogroups. That is, the upper and lower castes are just different peoples by blood. Personally, my opinion is a trace of ancient conquests, when the conquerors introduced a caste system so as not to mix with the defeated. Thousands of years have passed and the system has cemented.
      1. psiho117 30 May 2020 17: 58 New
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        Quote: g1v2
        this is a trace of ancient conquests, when the conquerors introduced the caste system, so as not to mix with the defeated

        As if the Romans, having come to the lands of the Germans, or the Franks to the lands of the Britons, did not do the same - we put our own at the head, the locals - in the servants / slaves.
        History is as old as the world.
        1. g1v2 30 May 2020 18: 10 New
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          In Europe there was no strict division into castes with a ban on mixing. In Rome, everything was determined by citizenship. Roman citizenship was received not only by Italian cities. And there were no prohibitions on mixing citizens and non-citizens. There was no caste system with the Franks either. And here the system has existed for more than a thousand years with a completely non-mixed population.
    4. IC
      IC 31 May 2020 14: 17 New
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      Learn the materiel. What is the British origin of Admiral Nimitz, General Powell, General Shalikoshvili, etc.
  2. Sergey M. Karasev 30 May 2020 05: 49 New
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    India has already seen the president from the untouchables. But the general or colonel of them is unlikely to see!

    He will see, he will see ... Slowly, but surely the water sharpens the stone. Times are changing, people and their consciousness too. Most importantly, the process is already underway.
    And I expected more from the article. There are not enough details of the dependence of the caste composition on the type of troops, ranks and official duties. It would be more interesting.
    1. knn54 30 May 2020 07: 44 New
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      The easiest option is to change religion. Most become Buddhists, but there are those who accept Islam.
      Regarding posts. During the times of the USSR, Indians said that the road was closed to the untouchables in universities, and there were practically no schools for them.
      In megacities, something may change. But in the "outback" practically none.
      1. Doctor 30 May 2020 08: 16 New
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        The easiest option is to change religion. Most become Buddhists, but there are those who accept Islam.
        Regarding posts. During the times of the USSR, Indians said that the road was closed to the untouchables in universities, and there were practically no schools for them.

        And they unfasten theirs (and not theirs) even in other countries, including the United States.
    2. AllBiBek 30 May 2020 09: 56 New
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      And there everything is simple.
      10% of ordinary and 25% of junior officers are Sikhs, and they are a common name there. Something like Poles in American folklore, and Irish in British.
      They also speak a special and specific “mov”.
      1. Oleg Zorin 30 May 2020 12: 04 New
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        He flew from Delhi to / from Goa. A group of Sikhs in blue turbans entered the plane, with their families. Interestingly, small children were carried in the arms of men. When they sat down, they passed the children over to their wives.
    3. Oleg Zorin 30 May 2020 12: 00 New
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      This is unknown to the author.
  3. Graz 30 May 2020 06: 01 New
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    It is because of caste division that India can never become a superpower NEVER
    1. psiho117 30 May 2020 13: 05 New
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      Quote: Graz
      It is because of caste division that India can never become a superpower

      Not only there, and in addition to castes - complete darkness:
      55% of women and 25% of men are illiterate, neither read nor write.
      India has the highest mortality rate in the world since almost no one thinks about sanitation or about the rules of the road, or about safety measures.
      In 53% of houses there is no running water and sewage. Where they lie - they drink there
      The Indian caste system still allows slavery. According to various estimates - the number of slaves reaches 14 million people.
      Well, the most shocking:
      Over the past 30 years in India, parents have consciously aborted more than 12 million female embryos. Motive - the desire to have an heir exclusively male.
      Those who can not pay for abortion (and below the poverty line there are still more than a third of the population) - just kill newborn girls. In India, this is not customary to talk about, but according to various estimates, from 100 to 500 thousand girls are killed annually only because they were not lucky to be born.

      Savages, as there are savages ...
      1. hohol95 30 May 2020 22: 16 New
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        Over the past 30 years in India, parents have consciously aborted more than 12 million female embryos. Motive - the desire to have an heir exclusively male.

        In India, the groom does not pay the bride's parents, namely the bride's parents must pay the groom's family! According to this, and having learned from the ultrasound the sex of the child, the family decides - she will pull up the upbringing and the subsequent wedding of her daughter. Or cheaper to have an abortion!
        I read in India there is a saying - 500 rupees for an abortion will save a family of 5000!
        Therefore, in India, 100 woman per 1 men.
        And a bunch of group rape! Young boys who escaped from the villages did not have a chance at a relationship in their native lands "lose their heads and everything else" at the sight of urban girls.
        And then the whole Indian society and the whole world then condemns the rape of another student by 20 workers from the nearest construction site!
        And how did they live up to this.
      2. Ron goc 4 June 2020 21: 54 New
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        I wonder who and how counted the number of slaves?
  4. Paul Siebert 30 May 2020 06: 13 New
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    The caste system has always hindered the development of India.
    Therefore, the Indians looked with such enthusiasm at the USSR, which in a revolutionary way was able to destroy the centuries-old bone structure that interfered with the modernization of the country.
    Millions of talented people "from the people" in our country have the opportunity to create, develop, move forward science, production, culture.
    They brought the "state of workers and peasants" into world leaders.
    Made a symbol of hope for all of humanity.
    Castes are not eternal. Like current capitalism in Russia ... wink
    1. bk0010 30 May 2020 19: 03 New
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      Quote: Paul Siebert
      Therefore, the Indians looked at the USSR with such enthusiasm
      With enthusiasm? From their point of view, the sudras (lower caste, proletariat) defeated and subjugated the brahmanas (higher caste, priests), kshtarians (warriors and managers) and vaisya (merchants and artisans). Kali-yuga (the kingdom of Antichrist) has actually come!
  5. Free wind 30 May 2020 06: 50 New
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    And here to drag the colonialists, it was always with them, the British tried to change the system, even for them it was wild, but it did not work out. Buddha seems so wonderful, but he is for the highest. This Brahman is sitting all in stool, then his claws will grow half a meter, then his beard, I enlighten. The highest caste that they wanted. You will drive him into the army, yeah right now, there are warriors for this, the Sikhs still belong to them, although they do not even enter Kashtria, you tried to call from the other two lower varns, the warriors rebelled. The untouchables did not even try, he does not have the right to step on the shadow of a warrior, they will kill him immediately. And there are about 20% of them. Not only that, there are also pariahs, it’s quite a kapets. Even untouchables cannot communicate with them.
    1. Gato 30 May 2020 13: 57 New
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      Buddha seems so wonderful, but he is for the highest. This Brahman is sitting

      And here is the Buddha? Buddhism, in contrast to Hinduism and Brahmanism, just recognizes the equality of people regardless of caste, social status, profession or gender
  6. fiberboard 30 May 2020 07: 36 New
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    Therefore, they have no chance in a war with China.
  7. U-58 30 May 2020 08: 39 New
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    All my conscious life I read about the abolition of tangible differences and the actual existence of such.
    But it has never been written on what grounds this caste is determined.
    The country has 1 billion inhabitants.
    The mobility of the population has long stepped over distances to two neighboring villages.
    And if a thread of rum from the North comes to be hired for work (military service) in the South of the country, then what serves as an indicator of its low-caste origin ??
    1. Ponchik78 30 May 2020 16: 24 New
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      Can’t you distinguish green from orange? Green patsak! Chetlanin Orange! With castes about the same)))
    2. mmaxx 31 May 2020 07: 31 New
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      I think that there is both in the zone. Hid his caste - it’s good if they just kill him.
    3. Ron goc 4 June 2020 21: 52 New
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      Name is this indicator.
  8. 5-9
    5-9 30 May 2020 10: 12 New
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    So their military officers are often Sikhs .... For the faithful Hindu need to learn something (but you need to learn) from a Russian or British person who is not at all in their mind (not sub-human, but creatures without a soul), the bastard is complete ... Sami they don’t want .... It’s clear that the 21st century and progress ... But ...
    In fact, muslim packs therefore have an organized army.
  9. Phoenix 30 May 2020 11: 35 New
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    I have been working with Indians for many years, none of those whom I asked do not know at all that there are any castes in India. You now remind the Americans who write that in Russia, bears with balalaikas walk on the streets and drink vodka.
    1. Sergey M. Karasev 30 May 2020 12: 47 New
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      Hindus simply do not like to advertise caste, because they know that, at present, this is not comme il faut, but it is not so simple to break traditions that are more than one thousand years old.
      1. Phoenix 30 May 2020 14: 11 New
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        I think the same thing with bears, Russians hide that the bears know how to plump vodka and play balalaika.
  10. Operator 30 May 2020 11: 57 New
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    Castes (from Latin casta - purebred breed) in Hindi are called varna (from Sanskrit "color") are the legacy of the conquest of India by the Black Sea Aryans (haplogroup R1a) in the middle of the 2nd millennium BC. In this way, white-skinned, fair-haired and blue-eyed Arias divided the country's population into the upper strata (warriors and priests) and the lower strata - dark-skinned, black-haired and black-eyed Dravids (who also began to share in the image and likeness of the Aryans).

    As a result of the caste division of Indian society, the descendants of the Black Sea Aryans still make up 3/4 of the higher castes of the kshatriyas and brahmanas and only 1/4 of all other castes.
  11. bandabas 30 May 2020 13: 02 New
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    Let them boil in their cauldron. Pakistan and China will have less hemorrhoids. Well, to us in the future.
  12. tegezen 30 May 2020 13: 32 New
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    In Russia, Russians cannot occupy significant (top) positions in the media, cinema, theater, banking, science (one cannot get into the academy without the right blood). For Russians, power structures, production, agriculture, the church. For Jews, on the contrary, plus law and medicine. These are realities. Varna is in any country, either it is obvious or hidden.
    1. Fishery 30 May 2020 16: 50 New
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      Jews in the Russian Federation 2 percent)))) Do not you put too much on them)))
      1. tegezen 31 May 2020 04: 38 New
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        Varna is shared by the common people (taxable estate, clubs) and the governing estates, the first 90% of the second only 10% (worms, peaks - warriors, tambourine traders) in any society. This is from birth, people realize it or not.
  13. Normal ok 30 May 2020 15: 04 New
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    Introduced by the colonialists for the deliberate division into different parts of representatives of various ethnic and religious groups, this principle has survived the times of India's independence, and, judging by the available data, it is applied by the country's military leadership today

    That is, the Soviet principle of 20% of places in universities - for national minorities - introduced by the British colonialists? laughing
  14. IC
    IC 31 May 2020 14: 37 New
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    The experience of contacts with the Indian Navy in the interpretation of 5 ships pr.61 ME, confirms the presence of mass. Most officers were Sikhs. The headache when docking was the need for all the lateworks to work in the dock. Each caste goes to his latrine
    1. ser56 31 May 2020 21: 11 New
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      Quote: IMS
      Each caste goes to his latrine

      curious! those. not officer / lower ranks but according to castes?
  15. ser56 31 May 2020 21: 08 New
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    the topic is curious, but very poorly disclosed ... request
  16. pereselenec 2 June 2020 09: 32 New
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    Indian society has a unique feature: since ancient times, it has been rigidly divided into social groups that have no analogues in other nations, called castes


    Why not having? In Russia, almost the same caste society:
    brahmanas - These are officials, United Russia members, deputies, former classmates of Putin and his sidekick in the section, as well as members of their families, priests of the first echelon. They own a country, they can do with it what they want and how they want.
    chestnuts - Numerous security officers, guard, prosecutors, priests of the average poshiba. Here, one can also include near-power first-level clowns from a box like Kisel, Litter, Sheinin, Malysheva, Pugacheva, Malakhov, etc. They protect and praise the Brahmins (including in the media environment), have almost absolute power over representatives of the lower castes, but are completely dependent on their ties with the Brahmins.
    vaisyas - small business pigs, contractors, dealers, building their precarious and fleeting business through personal ties with individual representatives of the previous caste. (due to the roof from the chestnut trees, they have a small fat, but, on the whole, are powerless and understand that at any moment the chestnuts can take everything from them and trample it in the mud. They express their anger on shurds.
    sudras - 86% of the population, workers in factories, teachers, health workers, pensioners, schoolchildren and students, drove, bombers, and other dependents. All those who plow for beggarly salaries of up to 20 tons (that is, the "middle class" according to Putin). Absolutely powerless. The brahmanas, as a rule, do not notice them with disgust, chestnuts and vaisyas can at any moment humiliate them with impunity.
    1. Ron goc 4 June 2020 21: 51 New
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      The untouchables forgot. Cons
  17. Ron goc 4 June 2020 21: 48 New
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    Castes are medieval rudiments. It can’t be a strong army with such a division. Interestingly, this relic in Pakistan remained? The people are the same.