Military Review

The American test pilot spoke about the causes of "bubble" stealth coating in the rear of the F-35

97
The American test pilot spoke about the causes of "bubble" stealth coating in the rear of the F-35

The network discusses an interview published recently with Defense News with an American military pilot, William (Billy) Flynn. The main topic of the interview was issues related to previously identified problems during the testing of 5th generation fighters.


Billy Flynn is a test pilot. It was he who once tested the F-35B and F-35C fighters. After performing test flights in Maryland, it turned out that the fighter damaged the stealth coating on the tail. We are talking about the tests of 9 years ago. Then the following was included in the report (data on the reasons):

During the test, the stealth coating F-35B showed "bubbling" in the area of ​​vertical and horizontal tail. This “bubbling” has a mechanical-thermal nature, which is associated with a relatively long flight at supersonic speeds.

William Flynn told the American press that he was tasked with achieving maximum speed during test flights. The maximum speed, which was originally recorded in those flights in 2011, was Mach 1,3 and 1,4 for F-35B and F-35C fighters, respectively. In subsequent tests, the speed was increased to 1,6 M.

Flynn:

Tests at speeds of 1,6 M were conducted frequently. At that speed, I launched missiles.

According to the American test pilot, then the aircraft were operated at extreme flight conditions.

American military pilot:

I flew for hours on the verge of the highest possible speed.

According to Flynn, this affected the stealth coverage of fighters. At the same time, the American pilot notes that the practical use of long-term extreme flight modes in a real combat situation does not make much sense.

The question is also discussed, is it possible to “bubble” the stealth coating of F-35 family fighters in a format that may not be visually detected?

Billy Flynn says that to identify bloating or other damage caused by the action of temperatures, special engineering equipment is needed in the form of testers of thickness and uniformity of the coating.

In 2019, a report was released at the Pentagon stating that the problem of "bubbling" of the stealth coating at supersonic speeds was closed. According to some reports, this is due to the fact that the new prescription spoke about the need to limit flight time at maximum supersonic speeds. In the American press it was noted that, for example, for missile launches at speeds of more than Mach 1,3, the time for using this mode is not more than 50 seconds.

At the same time, in the USA they add that a long supersonic flight is not the basis for the tactics of using fifth-generation F-35 fighters:

During a long flight at maximum supersonic mode, fuel is burned especially intensely. This not only affects the stealth coverage, but also by itself reduces the parameters of stealth aircraft. The plane simply loses the EPR indicators (effective dispersion area - approx. "Military Review") that were provided for it.
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  1. novel66
    novel66 26 May 2020 09: 31 New
    12
    and why fly somewhere? raise the vertical line above the airfield. shoot back and sit down quickly until you notice
    1. Tusv
      Tusv 26 May 2020 10: 53 New
      +2
      Quote: novel xnumx
      and why fly somewhere? raise the vertical line above the airfield. shoot back and sit down quickly until you notice

      Well, it’s necessary to have hahatushki like Ha-102 in order to get up, shoot and sit down
    2. knn54
      knn54 26 May 2020 10: 57 New
      +2
      -The time of using this mode is prescribed not more than 50 seconds.
      Thanks for the clarification. In previous articles, about a minute.
      1. opus
        opus 26 May 2020 22: 36 New
        +1
        Quote: knn54
        no more than 50 seconds.
        Thanks for the clarification. In previous articles, about a minute.

        good
        offset
  2. rocket757
    rocket757 26 May 2020 09: 33 New
    +7
    At the same time, in the USA they add that a long supersonic flight is not the basis for the tactics of using fifth-generation F-35 fighters:

    Shaw, okay! If you can’t, then there’s nothing and there’s nothing to break the veins!
    He wrote that with these pepelats there will be a "new tactics" created ... MEETS the stated!
    And ours, ours then rest ... higher, faster, stronger !!! what for?
  3. Uncle lee
    Uncle lee 26 May 2020 09: 34 New
    +7
    "Bubbles" stealth coating
    peeling, pimples and pimples! Horror....
    1. vvvjak
      vvvjak 26 May 2020 09: 41 New
      +4
      Quote: Uncle Lee
      peeling, pimples and pimples! Horror....

      So youthful sperm toxicosis. It will take years to 25-30 operation (maybe). laughing
      1. Runoway
        Runoway 26 May 2020 11: 21 New
        -10
        So youthful sperm toxicosis.

        In fact, a good / bad 4+ or 5th generation potential enemy has a new aircraft in service and even half the world’s customers.
        What about the SU-57 ?! 12 prototypes and promises from 2010 + Hindus jumped from the project.
        This is what you call congenital impotence ?????
        1. vvvjak
          vvvjak 26 May 2020 11: 48 New
          +3
          Quote: Runoway
          This is what you call congenital impotence ?????

          I will name the last stage of pregnancy.
          1. Runoway
            Runoway 26 May 2020 12: 02 New
            -4
            Will we manage to then produce the right amount?
            1. vvvjak
              vvvjak 26 May 2020 12: 04 New
              +1
              Quote: Runoway
              Will we manage to then produce the right amount?

              The right amount for what?
              1. Runoway
                Runoway 26 May 2020 16: 52 New
                -4
                For the interests and defense of the country, besides 2030mu. Enough of the military-industrial complex
        2. Slon1978
          Slon1978 26 May 2020 11: 51 New
          20
          I completely disagree. Is it good, bad, but most importantly new and bigger? I think this is complete stupidity - excuse me. I would not like for my money to build a large series of aircraft in Russia - a semi-finished product, most importantly a new and bigger one. It is better to build a proven and dangerous machine such as Su-35, meanwhile bring the Su-57 and then build in series the really best 5th generation aircraft in the world with a 2nd stage engine. F-35, under equal conditions of battle, will be landed by many 4th-generation vehicles, its chances of success are only in conditions of total control of airspace and full advantage in information security, which will allow attacking from afar and immediately leave without getting involved in battle on medium or long distance.
          1. rotkiv04
            rotkiv04 26 May 2020 13: 35 New
            +2
            At least one sober reasoning
          2. Runoway
            Runoway 26 May 2020 18: 05 New
            -4
            I think this is complete stupidity - excuse me
            in terms of marketing, it’s not stupid to sell like iPhones
            bring meanwhile Su-57

            Since 2010, they have been carrying on, despite the loud statements of the commander-in-chief, smacks of slovenliness. Here either "Moscow was not built right away" or someone wasted their tongues.
            No matter how the history of the su-47 repeats, instantly 1.44, ka-50
            F-35 under equal conditions of battle will be landed by many 4th generation vehicles
            what is your evidence? The purely theory is not a single fact. Therefore, while the bear has never been caught in the forest, it is not worth saying that his skin is bad.
            Okay, the NATO countries, but the fact that the Jews bought the f-35 suggests that there is something in it, the people are not stupid and the countries are in such conditions that there is no right to make a mistake
            waste and dangerous car type Su-35

            A lot now in the ranks of cars with AFAR ??? Comparable to the amount of the same Super Hornet ??? We have many pilots who can control an aircraft with a variable thrust vector ?! Even more those who can fly on a su-57
            F-35 under equal battle conditions
            they will never be, with the same number of Avaxs, nothing prevents the f-35 from being inconspicuous (with bubbles) in the presence of long-range missiles (amers, like radars in this regard, are fine) to work in the style of Israeli pilots
            ps got the heroes-critics laugh at someone else's straw without noticing their log
        3. Oyo Sarkazmi
          Oyo Sarkazmi 26 May 2020 11: 52 New
          +4
          Quote: Runoway
          In fact, good / bad 4+ or 5th generation

          Advertising is advertising. American radars are specially jammed on the F-35. And where the Russian "unpumped" radars appear, the F-35s disappear. The ruling hamsters from other countries should not know that "stealth" is only advertising.
          1. Tusv
            Tusv 26 May 2020 12: 24 New
            -2
            Quote: Oyo Sarkazmi
            And where Russian "unpumped" radars appear, the F-35s disappear

            Are there many Russian "unpumped" guidance radars around the world that are guaranteed to shoot down "invisible men"? Two countries with S-400 and 2 with Antei-2500. I don't want the rest of the bombs
        4. +5
          +5 26 May 2020 12: 56 New
          +4
          Claims to Fy-35 in fact 2 (if I were an American, as a Russian, I’m glad about this :))):
          1. He is raw. Still. In a bunch of mods. They made 500 pieces. Not the final technical appearance. As he and the full combat readiness will be achieved, all machines before him either upgrade (expensively and for a long time) or quietly withdraw to the reserve.
          2. Its life cycle is decades. In 10-20 years, the world will have a mass of Su-57, Su-35 and pumped Rafale and Typhoons + even more Chinese. But he is a Penguin and does not fly, and this can not be fixed (unlike the avionics of competitors) .... and the Raptors by that time will be 150 or less. Americans are somehow not accustomed to a lack of quality superiority.
        5. zwlad
          zwlad 26 May 2020 13: 24 New
          +3
          Quote: Runoway
          In fact, a good / bad 4+ or 5th generation potential enemy has a new aircraft in service and even half the world’s customers.

          "and if they do not take, we will turn off the gas"
        6. shinobi
          shinobi 26 May 2020 16: 41 New
          +6
          F-35 is like no airplane, it doesn’t play a role at all in the new 5th generation. Invisible? Don’t tell. UHF radars see them very well and are very far away. Sneak-up times will not allow them ground-based primary air defense operators. This has not changed since World War II .Really opposed to our Su and MiG concepts of the end of the 80s, F-22 of only 195 pcs and they don’t make much weather. The bottom line is that the USA has exorbitant ambitions for the old power that had already gone along with the tingling of old-school engineers. And if Russia has already passed the stage of the disease after the collapse of the USSR, the US is yet to come.
        7. Private-K
          Private-K 27 May 2020 09: 27 New
          +2
          Quote: Runoway
          What do you call congenital impotence?

          Bubbles on Fu35 came to light already in 2011. Already 2020, and the problem of bubbles has not been resolved. Impotence?
          Oh yes, resolved by the ban on supersonic flight. In fact, the Fu35be and Fu35ce became subsonic aircraft.

          The situation with Fu35 is like the stories of a rich impotent and women bribed by him about what a magnificent stallion he is in bed.
    2. gridasov
      gridasov 26 May 2020 10: 10 New
      +4
      Bubble is when the metal body heats up, and the coating swells as an analogy in frying eggs. In general, this is an aspect and evidence that hyperspeed flight modes are unattainable for modern technology. Even the shape of the rocket cannot be as it is now. After all, everyone knows why the flag tears in a strong wind. So the missile corps should have a corps in the form of an algorithmic connection of expansion and narrowing zones. TaK and airplanes have zones of increased turbulence where destruction and surface overheating occur. There are no methods of mathematical analysis of such capacious in these processes.
  4. Ravil_Asnafovich
    Ravil_Asnafovich 26 May 2020 09: 35 New
    15
    Bullshit, I paint the palisade every 2 years, although the fence does not fly, but here it’s 1,6.
    1. Pete mitchell
      Pete mitchell 26 May 2020 10: 16 New
      +8
      Quote: Ravil_Asnafovich
      Bullshit, I paint the palisade every 2 years ...

      You do not disclose the secrets of skill please lol
    2. avg
      avg 26 May 2020 10: 44 New
      +9
      Quote: Ravil_Asnafovich
      Bullshit, I paint the palisade every 2 years, although the fence does not fly, but here it’s 1,6.

      Get yourself a 5th generation fence. (shtatovsky do not take it, DECEPE)

      And for the "trendsetters" the requirements for the 5th generation are gradually falling off.
      The first maneuverability fell off.
      The second is afterburner and long supersonic
      The fact that you can’t fly high, far, in bad weather, shoot a cannon, etc., it does not count
      We are waiting for the following to fall off. Really ...
    3. Oyo Sarkazmi
      Oyo Sarkazmi 26 May 2020 19: 15 New
      +2
      Quote: Ravil_Asnafovich
      I paint the palisade every 2 years, although the fence does not fly,

      What is the problem! Put the polysad in a climate control hangar - and you forget about the paint!
      You only have to pay 20 hangar and equipment maintenance specialists ... request
  5. A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 26 May 2020 09: 44 New
    17
    Well, since here they pulled out the button accordion nine years ago (!), So I’ll play such a one.

    The biggest problem with these aircraft is invisibility.
    After a number of cases where, due to the fault of sloven pilots and careless airfield maintenance personnel, several F-35 units were simply lost somewhere in the runway area, the manufacturer issued instructions instructing the pilots immediately after landing to open the light and with a raised hand to indicate their presence . Immediately after this, technicians are obliged to place bright orange plastic cone chips around the aircraft, and in the absence of such, mark the silhouette of the aircraft with chalk on the concrete.
    1. sabakina
      sabakina 26 May 2020 10: 01 New
      +6
      Alexander Privalov, I don’t know how you have your F-35s invisible, but I’m personally tired of dodging invisibility on the roads! laughing
      1. A. Privalov
        A. Privalov 26 May 2020 10: 10 New
        +1
        Yes, Vyacheslav ... It was cool ...
        Face to face with "our" F-35, you, like me, are unlikely to have,
        but from these, God bless us all!
      2. Uncle lee
        Uncle lee 26 May 2020 10: 21 New
        +2
        Bullshit, ordinary teleportation ...
        Teleportation (dr. Greek τῆλε “far” + lat. Portare “carry”) is a hypothetical change in the coordinates of an object (moving), in which the trajectory of the object cannot be described by a mathematically continuous function of time.
      3. shinobi
        shinobi 26 May 2020 16: 51 New
        0
        belay Tin! And did you drive the car? sad
    2. Vitaly gusin
      Vitaly gusin 26 May 2020 13: 38 New
      0
      Quote: A. Privalov
      Well, since here they pulled out the button accordion nine years ago (!), So I’ll play such a one.

      It doesn't matter for the bazaar. But nobody paid attention to the "small" nuances.
      These are airplanes ONLY F-35B short take-off and vertical landing and F-35C Navy carrier-based fighter
      Last June, Defense News reported that the Pentagon has set time limits on the number of seconds that can be used in the variant. short take-off and landing of the F-35B and in the version of the carrier F-35C at supersonic speed.
      According to documents, both incidents occurred during flutter tests, when Models B and C flew at a speed of 1,3 Mach and 1,4 Mach. However, this damage did not occur in a vacuum, Flynn said. It materialized after the test samples F-35B and F-35C made multiple supersonic flights, which brought the aircraft to a maximum of Mach 1,6, which made it the result of cumulative pressure on the aircraft.
      By adhering to these time limits, the U.S. military will ensure that the F-35 lasts for its entire life.
      But in war time , Flynn said, the pilots will do whatever it takes to “survive and be effective” - even if it means ignoring time constraints and pushing the aircraft to its maximum performance.
      Aircraft fifth generation such as the F-35 must not play by the rules fourth generation said Flynn. In other words, the F-35 does not have to rely on supersonic speed to penetrate the disputed area, as most older aircraft do.
      .https://www.defensenews.com/smr/hidden-troubles-f35/2020/05/22/the-inside-story-of-two-supersonic-flights-that-changed-how-america-operates-the-f-35/
      That's when the SU-57B SU-57C will appear, and then it will be possible to compare what anyone has swollen and cracked and where.
  6. KVU-NSVD
    KVU-NSVD 26 May 2020 09: 52 New
    +1
    This not only affects the stealth coverage, but also by itself reduces the parameters of stealth aircraft. The plane simply loses the EPR indicators (effective dispersion area - approx. "Military Review") that were provided for it.
    Interesting information ..that. with prolonged supersonic F-35 becomes more noticeable? I wonder why ? From heating the glider and, accordingly, the coating? Of these things, the specialist probably and some conclusions can be made
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 26 May 2020 10: 15 New
      0
      Quote: KVU-NSVD
      I wonder why ? From heating the glider and, accordingly, the coating

      To glue the "multilayer cake" which is the skin of the "penguin" so it could withstand extreme, conditionally, the impact is difficult ... will it be eliminated or not, we'll see.
    2. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 26 May 2020 10: 33 New
      -3
      Have you read the article carefully?
      Heated by exhaust gas afterburner
      trailing edges of the tail. And they bubble
      stealth coating.
      No glider heating.
      There is a heating of the trailing edges of the tail unit on the afterburner.
      1. KVU-NSVD
        KVU-NSVD 26 May 2020 10: 41 New
        +7
        Quote: voyaka uh
        Have you read the article carefully?
        Heated by exhaust gas afterburner
        trailing edges of the tail. And they bubble
        stealth coating.
        No glider heating.
        There is a heating of the trailing edges of the tail unit on the afterburner.

        Carefully . I quote again, and not the author of the note, but B. Flynn
        and a long flight at maximum supersonic mode, fuel is burned especially intensely. This not only affects the stealth coverage, but also by itself reduces the parameters of stealth aircraft. Plane just loses those EPR indicators (effective dispersion area - approx. "Military Review"), which were provided for it.
        It is a question of EPR, of increasing the IR visibility of an intense jet stream not a word, although this also of course takes place
      2. The district
        The district 26 May 2020 10: 58 New
        +3
        Quote: rocket757
        To glue the "multilayer cake" which is the skin of the "penguin" so it could withstand extreme, conditionally, the impact is difficult ... will it be eliminated or not, we'll see.

        It is unlikely that we will see Victor .. Here's the answer to you right there, occupying everything and about all the sergeant of the Central Command and Staff, etc. )))
        Quote: voyaka uh
        Have you read the article carefully?
        Heated by exhaust gas afterburner
        trailing edges of the tail. And they bubble
        stealth coating.
        No glider heating.
        There is a heating of the trailing edges of the tail unit on the afterburner.

        They are all there in Israel)))) On the wiki trained)))
      3. Ka-52
        Ka-52 26 May 2020 11: 10 New
        +1
        No glider heating

        F-35 flying in airless space? The law of physics in terms of friction, they learned to bypass?)
        There is a heating of the trailing edges of the tail unit on the afterburner.

        Is there a temperature damper between the edge and the rest of the plane that prevents the temperature from spreading beyond the edge?
        1. gridasov
          gridasov 26 May 2020 11: 25 New
          +1
          But within the local zone and heating, heating to destruction will occur faster
      4. Piramidon
        Piramidon 26 May 2020 12: 50 New
        +2
        Quote: voyaka uh
        Heated by exhaust gas afterburner
        trailing edges of the tail

        It is possible, with a great stretch, to assume that the horizontal tail somehow gets into the jet (and that is doubtful), but the vertical one is generally in front of the cut of the "exhaust pipe". Or, in your opinion, the jet twists and touches the vertical XO? request
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 26 May 2020 13: 28 New
          -4
          It was about the inner and part of the trailing edge of the HORIZONTAL
          plumage.
          Even when the aircraft was constructed, they were afraid that the gases on the afterburner
          will heat her. But reduce the horizontal tail area
          didn’t, because it reduced the maneuverability of the aircraft (and the F-35, contrary to
          conventional wisdom, maneuverability is good).
          1. Piramidon
            Piramidon 26 May 2020 16: 27 New
            +2
            Quote: voyaka uh
            It was about the inner and part of the trailing edge of the HORIZONTAL
            plumage.

            I read what is written. This is a quote, I didn’t come up with it myself.
            During the test, the stealth coating F-35B showed "bubbling" in the area verticalо and horizontal tail.
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 26 May 2020 19: 17 New
              -2
              I read about this problem a few years ago. And it was about the F-35A.
              Relatively vertical at "B" recourse
              Maybe with a vertical landing, with the nozzle pointing down,
              does the heat reflected from the deck rush up?
  7. Prisoner
    Prisoner 26 May 2020 09: 53 New
    +2
    "I flew for hours on the verge of maximum speed." (c) Two and a half hours maximum. It's certainly time for aviation. But it sounds too dramatic. laughing Another attempt to smooth out the impression of another defect? what
    1. A. Privalov
      A. Privalov 26 May 2020 10: 21 New
      +2
      Quote: Captive
      "I flew for hours on the verge of maximum speed." (c) Two and a half hours maximum. It's certainly time for aviation. But it sounds too dramatic.

      In the source, this phrase sounds a little different:
      I have done this many times at top speed, ”said the pilot. - Try to fly 1300 kilometers per hour, then repeat, then refuel from the air tanker, and then all over again, and so on for five hours.
  8. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 26 May 2020 09: 58 New
    10
    So who put forward the requirements for "cruising supersonic"? Requiring a 57nd generation engine from the Su-2, otherwise it cannot be considered a 5th generation aircraft? He has AFAR. He has stealth, he also has super-maneuverability. Armament in the internal compartments. And all the same. It cannot be considered his 5th generation! And why? Yes, simply because he is Russian! And the Russians can't have great new planes ... Just by definition. tongue
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 26 May 2020 10: 17 New
      +1
      Eugene what are you talking about? Striped trendsetters on the topic .... to them for some objective criteria pf - e! As they want, whom they want, they’ll call them.
      1. Mountain shooter
        Mountain shooter 26 May 2020 10: 20 New
        +5
        Quote: rocket757
        Eugene what are you talking about? Striped trendsetters by topic

        It was believed that we play chess ... and they, it turns out, in poker. And bluff every turn ...
        1. A. Privalov
          A. Privalov 26 May 2020 10: 58 New
          -4
          Quote: Mountain Shooter
          It was believed that we play chess ... and they, it turns out, in poker. And bluff every turn ...

          For the sake of justice, you must admit that you cannot play chess with just four pieces on the board, but with four cards in poker, you can still do that. Including bluffing. Which has been done for many years. Stories about what wonderful cards are pressed in our chest, which we, perhaps, will open in 2021, 2023, 2027 already pretty fed up with even the most weighty gullibles.
          So what can we say about five hundred chess pieces, not to mention five hundred cards, moreover real ones? So where is the big bluff here, I don’t know.
          hi
          1. Ka-52
            Ka-52 26 May 2020 11: 16 New
            +1
            So what can we say about five hundred chess pieces, not to mention five hundred cards, moreover real ones?

            This is a non-linear law. The content of 4 cards can be more significant than the use of your 500 pieces of bread crumb chess
            1. A. Privalov
              A. Privalov 26 May 2020 11: 28 New
              -2
              Quote: Ka-52
              This is a non-linear law. The content of 4 cards can be more significant than the use of your 500 pieces of bread crumb chess

              I agree! But the key word here is "may be". After all, maybe not to be. This is the bluff.
              Be that as it may, on the one hand we have today already 500 (five hundred!) Supposedly bad but really existing aircraft flying 250 thousand hours and 1000 pilots to them, and on the other, 4 (four) pieces supposedly good and that’s it ... hi
              1. kot423
                kot423 26 May 2020 11: 36 New
                +1
                Be that as it may, on the one hand we already have 500 (five hundred!) Supposedly bad but really existing airplanes flying 250 thousand hours and 1000 pilots

                I’m wondering, what do you see as the problem? Just an example for you: you have 10 ZAZ 968 (which the country manufacturer has stated that it is 5 times cooler than Ferrari) and one Mercedes-Benz 500. What will you drive daily?
                1. A. Privalov
                  A. Privalov 26 May 2020 11: 51 New
                  -2
                  Quote: kot423
                  and what do you see the problem then?

                  No problems with either Ferrari or Mercedes-Benz. Apparently, you thought. hi
                  1. kot423
                    kot423 26 May 2020 11: 53 New
                    0
                    It didn’t seem to me, it’s just that you simply "moved out" from an uncomfortable question ...
                    1. A. Privalov
                      A. Privalov 26 May 2020 12: 27 New
                      0
                      Quote: kot423
                      you just simply "moved" from an uncomfortable question for you ...

                      Apparently, I did not comprehend the great wisdom of your reasoning, which you tried to convey to me. Forgive the old man. hi
                      1. kot423
                        kot423 26 May 2020 12: 39 New
                        0
                        which you tried to convey to me.

                        Yes, I did not try, I do not see the point. Especially since higher
                        "Slon1978 (Sergey) Today, 11:51"
                        there is a wonderful answer to your lamentations in the style of "all wasted". And my example also fell into this category.
              2. Ka-52
                Ka-52 26 May 2020 11: 43 New
                +2
                Be that as it may, on the one hand we have today already 500 (five hundred!) Supposedly bad

                The term "bad" does not apply to a product that a whole host of highly qualified specialists worked on. It is more correct to speak of "having certain drawbacks." Moreover, some shortcomings generally fit into the parameters described in the terms of reference.
                4 (four) pieces supposedly good and that’s it ...

                these "supposedly" are at a certain time segment of the technological cycle, which in turn passed through the F-35. Moreover, the time spent on its creation (taking into account the technological reserve of the F-22) is no less, if not more, than that of the Su-57. So here you have nothing to flaunt from the word at all.
                1. A. Privalov
                  A. Privalov 26 May 2020 12: 12 New
                  -2
                  No bravado! It's just that I'm used to believing my eyes and ears. They’re not letting me down yet. My eyes see 520 F-35s in the armies of eight countries and 4 Su-57s flying at the May 9th parade. Dot.
                  We can talk a lot about the disadvantages and advantages, time costs, etc., we can also compare these positions, but only if we are talking about objects that really exist. For the time being, there’s nothing to discuss or compare.
                  I quote myself:
                  As soon as you see the assembly line at the aircraft factory from the gate of which neatly dressed fighters roll out new fighters and dozens of Su-57s go into the army, videos will appear on the network where happy pilots get new combat vehicles, how they train on the ground and in the air, how fifth-generation fighters strike at various targets at firing ranges or carry out other missions, from that moment they will only praise him abroad. We will hear exceptionally positive feedback. All the critics will dry up, and yesterday the detractors and scoffers will either die of envy, or by making a figure eight in the air, they will excusably apologize for their unbelief and join the slender ranks of Su-57 fans.
                  hi
                  1. Ka-52
                    Ka-52 26 May 2020 12: 28 New
                    +1
                    No bravado! It's just that I'm used to believing my eyes and ears.

                    well then you are discussing different things. If you talk about the advantages of architecture such as Gothic over Baroque, this is one thing. And if you talk about the ability of a team of masons to put 5000 bricks per shift - that's different. And you have all mixed up in a heap: both people and horses .... The characteristics of the machine are one thing. They are visible immediately. And the production program has no relation to the comparison of characteristics. The production program (where you describe lines, pieces, etc. blah blah blah) is already the essence of the implementation. For each state, implementation depends on a variety of reasons - from funding opportunities to the needs for this particular type of weapon (based on the doctrine).
                    I repeat once again, the time it took to create the F-35 (taking into account the transfer of technology through the AFT program) exceeds the time currently spent on the creation of the Su-57. It’s just that the Americans earlier began to create a similar concept (while ours were arguing about the size of democracy that they need), the first and finished.
                    1. A. Privalov
                      A. Privalov 26 May 2020 12: 31 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Ka-52
                      the creation time of the F-35 (taking into account the transfer of technology under the AFT program) exceeds the time currently spent on the creation of the Su-57.

                      And here, I agree with you. We’ll wait another couple of years. There’s nowhere to rush. hi
                      1. zwlad
                        zwlad 26 May 2020 13: 56 New
                        +1
                        I doubt that in a couple of three years we will have SU-57 in comparable quantities. In about 10 years, about a hundred may be, but not before. This is expensive however, and is needed in the foreseeable future only if for advertising sales. Type. You see how good they are with us and are in service. We can sell them to you.
                        And if we are to be objective, we do not need these planes in the troops so far. Like Armata tanks. They have no tasks. Just a matter of prestige of the country.
                        But to create the best in the world of air defense and missile defense is necessary. As well as electronics for them.
                        And it is also necessary to improve strategic nuclear forces.
                        Yes, much more is needed ...
                  2. shinobi
                    shinobi 26 May 2020 17: 09 New
                    -1
                    Yeah. It’s been dreaming. They’ll show it. In 20-25 years. Maybe, maybe not. Is there a lot of photos on the MiG-25, Su-27 assembly or maybe Tu-95? Even the Yankees used to PR every new one do not do this .Po F-22 there is no intelligible information at all, about the F-35 only how the prototype was created, where the conveyor is not close. Everything is piecewise and almost by hand. Jigsaw and needle files. Advertising does not count.
                    1. A. Privalov
                      A. Privalov 26 May 2020 17: 28 New
                      -1
                      Quote: shinobi
                      , about the F-35, just how the prototype was created, where the conveyor is not close. Everything is piecewise and almost by hand. Jigsaw and needle files.

                      Well, admire your health, since it had not happened before. This is such a production - something on the conveyor, something piece and almost by hand, but somewhere, perhaps with a jigsaw and needle files.
                      1. shinobi
                        shinobi 26 May 2020 17: 32 New
                        -1
                        This is an advertisement and not a real assembly process.
                      2. A. Privalov
                        A. Privalov 26 May 2020 17: 35 New
                        -1
                        Quote: shinobi
                        This is an advertisement and not a real assembly process.

                        Of course of course! Lockheed Martin for the sake of such a thing, the whole pavilion of props dragged, extras hired ...
                        Well, what is rich, how warm.
                        We look forward to seeing at least one from KnAAZ. hi
                      3. shinobi
                        shinobi 26 May 2020 17: 46 New
                        0
                        Vryat-Li. A similar kind of commercials is also full about our products. Look at how super-powerful we are, be afraid of us. Everything real under the heading is secret, rubbed on the spot when it was caught. It’s always like that. Otherwise, the profession of industrial spy disappeared as unnecessary .
                      4. A. Privalov
                        A. Privalov 26 May 2020 18: 26 New
                        -2
                        Quote: shinobi
                        This kind of videos is also complete in our products.

                        It would be something to show, would certainly show.
                        About the assembly, on the fingers you can count. Here, the video is more than a year old. And flies, and flies ...
                        ... journalist on an empty workshop.
                        A sad sight ...
                      5. A. Privalov
                        A. Privalov 26 May 2020 18: 52 New
                        -2
                        I listened to what the Deputy Chief was saying ... "Under the current contract, there are 2 aircraft. One in 19 and one in 20 ..." recourse
  • rocket757
    rocket757 26 May 2020 10: 58 New
    0
    Craftsmanship is everywhere welcomed and appreciated .... but not the skill of a sharpie, besides with very serious power support.
    Here, either immediately give the ports and do not snort, or be ready in all directions!
    It’s difficult, because that sharpie has been doing this for a long time, has become proficient and richly got hold of helpers ..
    Anyway, that game will have to be broken, one way or another, otherwise nothing.
  • Vol4ara
    Vol4ara 26 May 2020 11: 24 New
    -4
    Quote: Mountain Shooter
    So who put forward the requirements for "cruising supersonic"? Requiring a 57nd generation engine from the Su-2, otherwise it cannot be considered a 5th generation aircraft? He has AFAR. He has stealth, he also has super-maneuverability. Armament in the internal compartments. And all the same. It cannot be considered his 5th generation! And why? Yes, simply because he is Russian! And the Russians can't have great new planes ... Just by definition. tongue

    And what about the turbine blades visible through the air intakes. And with metal rivets on the case
    1. Mountain shooter
      Mountain shooter 26 May 2020 12: 12 New
      +1
      Quote: Vol4ara

      And what about the turbine blades visible through the air intakes. And with metal rivets on the case

      The blades are not a turbine, but a compressor. They are not visible from all angles. And something there flashed about carbon fiber blades. Permians work out the technology. The trials are long. Like everything new.
      And rivets ... rivets should close, of course. Yes, only experienced cars so far. Why not jump over your head? They assembled a model with ideal parameters and reduced its EPR to a minimum. Where necessary - greased, where necessary - bent. And left before time. As is usually done.
  • Mamuka Petrovich
    Mamuka Petrovich 26 May 2020 09: 58 New
    +2
    This "bubbling" has a mechanical-thermal nature, which is associated with a relatively long flight at supersonic speeds

    It is better to be primed wassat
    1. gridasov
      gridasov 26 May 2020 10: 16 New
      +1
      You are mistaken! Internal materials which are ionized by completely different principles are exposed to heating and further destruction. This is the process of electromagnetic induction, but when the surface is ionized by external flows of an elastic medium, by air. And scientists still do not know how this happens. Moreover, new methods of analysis of such processes are perceived with hostility
  • Phoenix
    Phoenix 26 May 2020 10: 00 New
    0
    This whole story with the F-35 is one to one fable "fox and grapes" :) They are ashamed to admit that they built nonsense, so ashamed that it is better to lose defensive capability than to admit mistakes in design.
    1. +5
      +5 26 May 2020 13: 03 New
      -1
      One Lokhidovite, when he was bothered by the questions "what do you have a Penguin and", blurted out - the Pentagon wanted 3 in 1, 1 engine and stealth - he got it all!
      Boeing Penguin was still a penguin.
      Strategically miscalculated, imagining that his air opponents would be single Mig-29 9-12 with faulty radars, and he with AWACs and in a white tailcoat ....
      1. shinobi
        shinobi 26 May 2020 17: 29 New
        +1
        That niiii! What a miscalculation there! Or rather, just at the moment of R&D, the pentagon rushed (like a cat with lard) with an instant global disarming first strike. It was assumed that after it we would have little left of the armed forces and the state in general. Analysts lazed theirs.
        1. +5
          +5 27 May 2020 08: 41 New
          0
          In any case, aerial battles for the Penguin were supposed only episodic, with a small and outdated enemy in the conditions of their complete information superiority ....
          This is already now, when it became clear what could happen otherwise, fan fights and others under the \ skippers themselves (themselves !!!) began to invent which Penguin a mighty air fighter ....
    2. zwlad
      zwlad 26 May 2020 13: 39 New
      +1
      This is not a shame. This is a fear of losing an elementary profit on a project. And when it was there most likely ogogo
  • Maks1995
    Maks1995 26 May 2020 10: 14 New
    -3
    Yes, Another fable "fox and grapes" performed by Urya-smi. Well at least VO explained how it was ...

    It’s interesting, but how does the Stealth cover make the fast and the furious in F22, SU 57 and the Chinese?
    Heating at TU and MIG, they wrote, how much .....
    1. Svetlana
      Svetlana 26 May 2020 10: 34 New
      +3
      It’s interesting, but how does the Stealth cover make the fast and the furious in F22, SU 57 and the Chinese?

      Most likely everyone has problems with this. Heat and ionization will destroy any coating, any composite. It is the matter of time.
      But not everyone has such talkative pilots as the Americans.
      1. gridasov
        gridasov 26 May 2020 11: 22 New
        +1
        You correctly noted that absolutely any material object is subject to ionization. Therefore, it is necessary to apply not new materials, but methods of controlling these electronic magnetic processes. Only then will it be possible to talk about hyperspeed and long-distance flights in space and generally development.
    2. shinobi
      shinobi 28 May 2020 00: 41 New
      0
      They tolerate it normally. We have radio-absorbing paints on a ball-and-bubble basis. In a heat-resistant base, very small hollow glass balls are added between which the amplitude self-extinguishing of the signal reflected from the body and partial dissipation take place. Yeah, those same "nanotechnologies".
      1. Maks1995
        Maks1995 30 May 2020 10: 40 New
        0
        So this is an old western idea. As soon as construction paints appeared from there in the 90s, there were already balls.
        They wrote that for 440 degrees heating at TU, for 500 at a moment ... and not a word, as with our coating. (However, they wrote that they had "forgotten" for the cabin and did after India's refusal)
  • bar
    bar 26 May 2020 10: 21 New
    -1
    the fighter has a damaged stealth coating on the tail

    What, and on the tail too? And it's like a "military plane"?
  • bar
    bar 26 May 2020 10: 23 New
    +2
    the practical use of long-term extreme flight modes in a real combat situation does not make much sense.

    Of course. Fly on the afterburner is not enough kerosene.
  • Avior
    Avior 26 May 2020 11: 27 New
    +4
    how much you can chew the same thing.
    A defect with an edge appeared only once nine years ago in special tests for extreme conditions.
    The second time it was not possible to repeat it.
    In the process of actual operation of the aircraft, there is nothing like this and never has been.
    The reasons why this happened just then, and never again, have not actually been established.
    Reinsurance measures have been taken - they have made a more heat-resistant coating and formally entered restrictions that really cannot be fulfilled.
    The Navy and the ILC are satisfied with all this, there are no complaints about this, they also approved the measures.
    Why is it necessary to chew it many times, if it has already been clear for a long time that this does not introduce any real restrictions on the use of airplanes, no one flies and is not going to spend hours and hours at such speeds and altitudes?
    1. Carnifexx
      Carnifexx 26 May 2020 11: 40 New
      0
      I agree, but I can’t imagine it ever ending.
    2. zwlad
      zwlad 26 May 2020 13: 43 New
      0
      and throw on the fan?
  • Carnifexx
    Carnifexx 26 May 2020 11: 43 New
    -2
    What do I have to say about this:
  • Vasyan1971
    Vasyan1971 26 May 2020 11: 45 New
    -2
    the problem of "bubbling" stealth coverage at supersonic speeds is closed. According to some reports, this is due to the fact that the new prescription spoke about the need to limit flight time at maximum supersonic speeds.

    - I have a sole on a boot
    falls off.
    - Walk barefoot. The problem is closed! good
  • Kushka
    Kushka 26 May 2020 13: 25 New
    +3
    One expert when he found out that my 7
    9 years ago the right mudguard fell away when I
    for example, with a cum-3 hours peck 140, stated that
    7 for him after that is not a car at all,
    but a cart.
  • Jack O'Neill
    Jack O'Neill 26 May 2020 13: 38 New
    -1
    An old problem that has long been resolved, and they will post it at VO.
    Today, there are no problems or limitations as such.
    Problems exist to fix them.
  • veritas
    veritas 26 May 2020 14: 11 New
    +4
    The problem is trifling. But the point is, you can still see them on our radars.
  • Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 26 May 2020 14: 48 New
    0
    about the need to limit flight time at maximum supersonic speeds. In the American press it was noted that, for example, for missile launches at speeds of more than Mach 1,3, the time for using this mode is not more than 50 seconds.
    Class. Americans will also prescribe their hypersonic rocket to fly at a speed not exceeding 0,9 M, where to rush? repeat
  • tolmachiev51
    tolmachiev51 27 May 2020 04: 41 New
    -1
    How much money swelled into him, he must fly with a gold coating !!!
  • Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 28 May 2020 07: 49 New
    0
    Quote: Runoway
    So youthful sperm toxicosis.

    In fact, a good / bad 4+ or 5th generation potential enemy has a new aircraft in service and even half the world’s customers.
    What about the SU-57 ?! 12 prototypes and promises from 2010 + Hindus jumped from the project.
    This is what you call congenital impotence ?????


    They also did a lot of F-111 and sold it. So what ? They flew and fell. And often....
  • Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 28 May 2020 07: 52 New
    0
    Quote: Avior
    how much you can chew the same thing.
    A defect with an edge appeared only once nine years ago in special tests for extreme conditions.
    The second time it was not possible to repeat it.
    In the process of actual operation of the aircraft, there is nothing like this and never has been.
    The reasons why this happened just then, and never again, have not actually been established.
    Reinsurance measures have been taken - they have made a more heat-resistant coating and formally entered restrictions that really cannot be fulfilled.
    The Navy and the ILC are satisfied with all this, there are no complaints about this, they also approved the measures.
    Why is it necessary to chew it many times, if it has already been clear for a long time that this does not introduce any real restrictions on the use of airplanes, no one flies and is not going to spend hours and hours at such speeds and altitudes?



    Lies. Most recently, they found that when flying in the rain or in hail, the coating slazit everywhere. Elements of the power frame rust. So not everything is so rosy there. and the coating must be regularly restored ... tongue wassat laughing