Military Review

The first city in Europe

227
The first city in Europe

View of the excavations of the ancient city of Poliochni


Ancient civilization. In our cycle of acquaintance with ancient culture, several materials have already been published: “Croatian Apoxyomen from under the water. Ancient civilization ", “Homer's poems as a historical source. Ancient civilization ", “Gold for war, the fourth wonder of the world and Ephesus marble” и "Antique ceramics and weapons"and now also "Minoan Pompeii": a mysterious city on a mysterious island ". But did we talk about everything that preceded the formation of ancient civilization? Not at all, so much of everything there is buried in the past! And if in the previous article we spoke about the “Minoan Pompeii”, today our story will be devoted to an equally interesting topic: the very first city (or urban-type settlement, more precisely) in Europe! And what kind of city is this, you ask? Rome? Nooo! "Golden-minded Mycenae" or Orchomen? Also not ... Hirokitiya on the island of Cyprus? Already "hotter", but still wrong!


Today we go there!

One of the earliest urban-type settlements in Europe (and the Greeks generally consider it to be the first, while in Asia there are Chayonyu, Chatal-Hyuk, and Jericho) is a city on the island of Lemnos in the Aegean Sea. This city was founded much earlier than the legendary Troy, and it is called Poliochni - after the hill of the same name, located next to the excavations.

Looking at the map of the island, we will see that its outlines are very whimsical, and the many bays and coves protected from the wind make it a real hotel for sailors. And people appreciated this feature in the distant past.


Map of the island. Needless to say, nature has tried so hard over him that it is hardly possible to come up with something more whimsical ...

It all started with the fact that in 1923 the Italian archaeologist Alessandro Della Seta decided to search the island for the remains of the culture of one of the peoples of the sea - the Tyrrhenes or Pelasgians, who, according to Herodotus, lived on Lemnos before 500. AD he was not captured by the Athenians. They started digging in August 1925, but the most interesting discoveries were made in 1934, when they found the remains of the fortress walls and a place for public gatherings (“boulevards”), and then, already in 1956, they also found a treasure trove of gold items, very similar to Priam’s treasure.


A mountain rises above Mirina, the capital of the island, and a fortress rises on the mountain. The bottom is beautiful, but there is nothing inside. One dry grass

In 1964, in Mirin, the main city of the island, the Museum of Mirina was opened, where finds from Poliochni began to be exhibited. It is interesting that archaeologists marked various periods in the development of this city with flowers on their plans, and since then these “colored names" have been assigned to them: Red, Black, Yellow, Green, Blue ...


There is a fort below ... But there is nothing interesting in it either. In general, this island is such a quiet sleepy place that it is difficult to imagine those who come there to rest. Well, at least a little “life” and civilization in the worst sense of the word ...

It was possible to find out that the first settlers arrived here and on the neighboring islands of the Aegean Sea as far back as the XNUMXth millennium BC. The buildings had a completely urban character: the walls that protected the settlement from enemies, public wells, paved streets, sewers, gravel-covered roads leading from the city, that is, everything that distinguishes an urban-type settlement from a rural one. And, of course, traces of the division of labor: workshops of potters, blacksmiths, spinners, tanners. Many metal objects were found from copper, bronze, gold, silver and even lead, from which they were made of scrapers (!) For broken ceramic vessels.


Here is the excavation of Poliochni ... Everything is the same as in Gorgippi in Anapa or in Hermonass in Taman. By the way, you don’t need to go far ...

When a jug with several dozens of gold items was found under the floor of one of the dwellings in 1953, their similarity with the products from the Priam Treasure was so obvious that one would think that they left the same workshop. Particularly impressive were earrings made of chains with idol figures at the ends. Obviously, in this area there was one culture in which craftsmen worked and created similar products. And since the island of Lemnos was directly opposite the entrance to the Dardanelles, it was through it that Greece was traded with the Asia Minor Black Sea coast and ancient Colchis, as well as the western coast of Asia Minor. And in the same Troy from Greece, it was best possible through Lemnos!


Treasures from Poliochni, approx. 2400-2000 years. BC. National Archaeological Museum, Athens

It turns out that Lemnos was, as it were, a transit base between the world of Asia, where the urban revolution had already taken place, and Europe, where there were no proto-cities. So it is no exaggeration to consider Poliochni as the earliest known European city. And in addition, it was a major metalworking center.


Layout of the excavation of the city. Mirina Museum, Lemnos

By the way, the structure of the city in some ways resembled the cities of the East already known to us. First of all - a very close development of houses, often with common walls. Although according to a single plan, which indicates a high social organization and a clear work plan. Dwellings differ in size, but all have a small open courtyard around which all other premises, both residential and utility, are grouped. The houses of Poliokhni had sewers and drains, and in the city itself wells up to nine meters deep, lined with stone, and water tanks were arranged.


This is a golden hair clip with birds from the same treasure and is also exhibited in the museum in Athens. No wonder it says: "In Greece, everything is there!"

Most ancient period stories city ​​- Black, "pre-urban", 3700-3200 years. BC. It was followed by the Blue period of the "first city" with rectangular houses in plan - 3200-2700. BC. The green period is 2700-2400. BC, then Red, 2400-2200. BC. and Yellow - 2200-2100. BC. According to the results, the excavations revealed seven cultural layers here, successively located one above the other settlements belonging to the Neolithic and early Bronze Age. In terms of the occupied area, the city almost twice exceeded the area of ​​Troy II and in the Red period occupied an area of ​​about 13900 sq. m. The population of the city could consist of 1300-1400 inhabitants. Moreover, he was completely surrounded by a wall, which means that there was no peace at that time in this region and his inhabitants were constantly threatened by attacks from the sea.


Completely touching ceramic pig of the III millennium BC from Poliohni. National Archaeological Museum, Athens

As already noted above, each of the architectural stages of Poliochni by archaeologists noted in a different color. During the Neolithic period (Black Period, 3700-3200 BC) it was a small village of oval huts occupying the very center of the hill. In the early Bronze Age (periods from Blue to Yellow), the settlement received the greatest development. Moreover, the settlement of the Blue period was probably founded before Troy I, and covered the entire cape. The population was approximately 800 to 1000 people. The village continued to grow in the Green period, when its population reached almost 1500 people. However, in the subsequent Red Period (2400-2200 BC), the population decreased and the city was completely abandoned in the Yellow Period (2200-2100 BC), after a devastating earthquake that struck the region at the end third millennium.


At one time I found this pig on the site of the Athenian Museum of Archeology, and it was in the year of the pig. I looked at her, took four balloons, doused them with wet toilet paper, then put a couple more layers on PVA glue, and made all other details from paper bags. He covered the dried pigs with something modern for decorating the walls “for ceramics”, and four “ceramic” and even “antique” pigs came out, inside of which were placed gifts for his wife, daughter and granddaughter. They really enjoyed it. Here it is - a direct benefit from the ancient artifacts of the Bronze Age!

Strong fortified walls, public buildings, squares, paved roads with sewers, wells, mansions and small stone houses - all these are Poliochni, moreover, from the early Bronze Age. That is what is surprising. The appearance of new forms can be clearly seen in pottery: its own painting for the Sulfuric period, the characteristic pots of the Blue period and the cups of the Yellow period, which are also found in the later layers of Troy II. The people of Poliochni were engaged in agriculture, fishing, textile production, the manufacture of stone tools and weapons. There are signs of metalworking and the use of the lost casting technique back in the Green Period, as well as increased commercial activity in the Red Period. Life in Poliochni resumed in the Gray and Violet periods, however, the resources of those around him were clearly limited, and the hill was abandoned by the end of the late Bronze Age and up to the Middle Ages.


Trojan ceramics. She is also found in Lemnos. So ... there were contacts between Lemnos and Troy! National Museum of Archeology, Athens

On the other hand, its inhabitants were not only afraid of the aliens, but also actively traded with them, as evidenced by the abundance of imported ceramics at the level of the Blue Period. Pottery is obviously from mainland Greece, which means that the islanders traded with it and exported something there, and, accordingly, imported something. If traces of intensive metalworking were found on the island, then where did the inhabitants of the city get the metal from? They could get gold from Colchis, but copper - only from Cyprus, which means that they maintained commercial relations with this rather remote island. They had to buy tin for bronze production from the Phoenicians, since only at that time they knew the way to the "Tin Islands".

The city, however, did not grow, but gradually decreased in size. Why? Perhaps the inhabitants of the island cut down all the trees and burned them to coal to melt the metal, like the ancient Cypriots, who arranged an ecological disaster on their island? It is precisely unknown! But the fact that the area of ​​the city by 2100 was significantly reduced is a proven fact. Well, about this year, Poliochni was completely empty. Perhaps the cause was an earthquake, as archaeologists found two human skeletons under the ruins of a large building (maybe a temple). But that is all that remains of us from its many inhabitants. Apparently, after that they left this place and settled somewhere else. Maybe first on neighboring islands. In general, about what exactly happened then, today we can only guess. But the remnants of the ancient city and the artifacts found in it unequivocally say that once at the very dawn of civilization, in general, quite civilized people lived here!


Tools and weapons from the excavation of Poliochni. Everything is ancient, bronze and very characteristic. It can be said typical of time and place! National Museum of Archeology, Athens

Interestingly, during 1994-1997, the joint excavations of the Greek Archaeological Service and the Athenian Academy, led by Christos Bulotis, revealed another Bronze Age settlement on the tiny uninhabited island of Kukkonisi, in the Mudros harbor, to the west of Poliochni, dating back to the Red Period . And there is a lot of Mycenaean ceramics, which suggests that the Greeks could have lived on Kukkonisi already in the era of the Trojan War, that they could have a permanent settlement here, and that they clearly understood the importance of the straits connecting the Aegean and the Black Sea.

Recent excavations at Mirin, on the southwestern coast of the island, at Euphrates, revealed two more settlements; found settlements in Vriokastro, Trochalia, Castelli and Axia, but they were much less significant.

Chronology of the main stages of the settlement of Poliochni:

4500 BC - 3200/3100 BC
3200/3100 BC - 2100/2000 BC
2100/2000 BC - 1700/1600 BC
1700/1600 BC - 1200 BC

A long time ago it was - all that remains to be said!
Author:
Articles from this series:
Minoan Pompeii: a mysterious city on a mysterious island
Antique ceramics and weapons
Gold for war, the fourth wonder of the world and Ephesus marble
Homer's poems as a historical source. Antique civilization. H. 1
Croatian apoxiomen from the water. Ancient civilization. H. 2
227 comments
Ad

The editorial board of Voenniy Obozreniye urgently needs a proofreader. Requirements: impeccable knowledge of the Russian language, diligence, discipline. Contact: [email protected]

Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. barin
    barin 31 May 2020 04: 42 New
    +9
    At one time I found this pig on the site of the Athenian Museum of Archeology, and it was in the year of the pig. I looked at her, took four balloons, doused them with wet toilet paper, then put a couple more layers on PVA glue, and made all other details from paper bags. He covered the dried pigs with something modern for decorating the walls “for ceramics”, and four “ceramic” and even “antique” pigs came out, inside of which were placed gifts for his wife, daughter and granddaughter. They really enjoyed it. Here it is - a direct benefit from the ancient artifacts of the Bronze Age!

    This I understand - Applied Science! good
    And thanks for the article - interesting.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 31 May 2020 06: 51 New
      +8
      Sadness, then the first piggy banks were “pigs”, not “cats” !!! lol
      Thank you very much Vyacheslav Olegovich, but I think it’s worth highlighting in the next works the superiority of “cats” over “pigs”! I think your Basia - it will support !!! good
      Sincerely, Vlad !!!
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 31 May 2020 08: 22 New
        +7
        "Pigs", "cats" negative
        The main thing is trilobites !!! good
        laughing
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 31 May 2020 13: 42 New
          +6
          Yeah, Russophobia trilobitas, nowhere without that! laughing
      2. Andobor
        Andobor 31 May 2020 08: 24 New
        +1
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        the first piggy banks were “pigs”, not “cats”

        It depends on where the “pigs” are Indo-European creatures, the “cats” are Middle Eastern, the cities were the first there, - here we are talking about Europe.
      3. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 31 May 2020 14: 30 New
        +3
        My friend affectionately calls his wife "Basia". When asked what this means, he replies that it is an abbreviation for the Baskerville dog.
  2. Pessimist22
    Pessimist22 31 May 2020 05: 39 New
    +7
    It is very interesting to study history, I wonder what gods they had? 4500 BC lived, then made a water supply and sewage system, then the rule of Rome, with its magnificent architecture and city infrastructure, the world's first marinas built of concrete directly in the water, and with the advent of the Abrahamic religions, decline and degradation, religious wars, approaches behind the grave, the Inquisition , the dark times of the Middle Ages, religion stopped progress for a thousand years, otherwise we would now live in a modernly different world.
    1. knn54
      knn54 31 May 2020 08: 23 New
      +2
      Article PLUS.
      A couple of points:
      -You need to figure out where REALLY Troy1 and Troy2 are.
      -about the First City, there is also Tartess.
      1. AllBiBek
        AllBiBek 31 May 2020 10: 23 New
        +3
        Bulgarian Plovdiv, as an urban-type settlement, is at least comparable to Poliochni and, in this regard, is as much older than Tartess as Moscow is older than St. Petersburg.

        And about Troy-1 and Troy-2 - what is there that is incomprehensible?

        They have long learned how to work with re-posting at the level of confident calibrations, and moreover, everywhere. Thanks to the soil scientists.
      2. cost
        cost 31 May 2020 10: 23 New
        +6
        -about the First City, there is also Tartess.

        Rather Gadir.
        Tartess (Tarshish) according to Herodotus is the powerful sea country of King Argantonius behind the Heracles Pillars, which, according to Herodotus, ruled for sixty years in the capital Tarshish - the oldest and richest city of Gadir.
        Strabo, Pausanias, Avien - the authors who most fully told about the Tartessians - unanimously declare that the capital Gadir was at the mouth of the Betis River, the present Guadalquivir. However, all attempts to discover this city were unsuccessful. Instead of the ruins of the magnificent port city, Schulten found at the mouth of the Guadalquivir only the remnants of a fishing village from the era of Roman rule and a golden ring with an inscription in Greek. Excavations in other areas where the Tartessians once inhabited did not lead to success either.
        In general, this area is located in a zone of seismic activity, so it is possible that the capital of the Tartessian state lies in the depths of the sea, being there as a result of a strong earthquake.
        Strabo suggested that Tartess was connected with immigrants from Atlantis. - Part of the population, escaping from the disaster, could have time to move to the territory along the modern coast of the Mediterranean Sea and the Atlantic Ocean.
        Pausanias: "... Wars went on land and sea, for several centuries. Tartessians, Carthaginians, Phoceans, Phoenicians, Sicilian Elins fought for domination in the Mediterranean. The details of those wars did not reach us. It is only known that at first the Punic cities faced resistance from Tarshish, who was not inclined to concede without a fight their trade routes to the aliens who had come from nowhere.After a series of wars, the Punyans managed to blockade their enemy.As a result, the Carthaginians captured and destroyed the city of Ghadir, and blocked the Strait of Gibraltar. After that, the exit of foreign ships to The Atlantic became impossible without the permission of the Carthaginians. Following this, the great Tartessian state fell into decay ... ".

        1. Fedor egoist
          Fedor egoist 31 May 2020 12: 55 New
          +3
          It is believed that the oldest European settlements should not be sought on the Mediterranean coast, but on its shelf, at depths of 100-200 meters. Its level used to be different, much lower than modern.
          1. Operator
            Operator 31 May 2020 14: 34 New
            0
            Cities (walled settlements with public infrastructure), not villages, appeared in Europe after the current sea level "settled".

            If there were local subsidence of the land (and not the rise of the sea - such as in the Crimea), then the remains of the settlements are in the shallow coastal waters, and not on the shelf.
          2. haron
            haron 1 June 2020 06: 25 New
            0
            Then we can already recall the settlement near Predstva near Psherov in the Czech Republic. 25 years ago, a settlement of 000 people can be considered a city. The traces of the last dwelling on this hill date back to the 150th century AD, and belonged to the Slovenes. How do you like a settlement with a history of 12 thousand years?
            1. AllBiBek
              AllBiBek 2 June 2020 15: 00 New
              0
              But why go so far for this, when there is Zaraysk half a kilometer from Kolomna, and there inside the Kremlin there is the same parking lot of the same eastern gravette with even more dating, and for about the same number of people?

              "There is no prophet in his own country" ...
              1. Operator
                Operator 2 June 2020 15: 22 New
                0
                The Zaraisk Paleolithic site is a zone of the glacial tundra from 28 to 16 millennium BC, after which the site was abandoned due to the next cooling of the climate. Belongs to the Kostenkov-Avdey culture, the bone remains found in other places belong to the carriers of haplogroup C, which has completely died out by the end of the last ice age.

                The city from the word hail is a fenced settlement, not a single Paleolithic parking of fences had. The same can be said of the vast majority of settlements on the European subcontinent before the start of the Bronze Age - such as from whom to defend against an insignificant population density.

                Rare exceptions: coastal cities - shopping centers.
                1. AllBiBek
                  AllBiBek 2 June 2020 15: 30 New
                  0
                  You have absolutely false information about the genetics of the human remains of the Kostenkov-Avdey cultural community.

                  To begin with, it is in time - years from the pyramids and to us and vice versa, and in territory - from the Carpathians to the Urals. And all this together is gravette.

                  By the way, human remains from Zaraysk are known. A1E2, the most racially correct marker.
                  1. Operator
                    Operator 2 June 2020 15: 33 New
                    0
                    What are you talking about - all haplogroups A, from A000 to A1, were found in Africa, without exception laughing

                    On other continents, haplogroups derived from the ancestral haplogroup VT were found (dating to 67 thousand years ago, the location of Southeast Asia) - B, C, etc. (are designated as they separate from the ancestral haplogroup and intermediate summary haplogroups).

                    Surviving carriers C dispersed across Oceania (C1, Malays, Indonesians, Pacific Islander, Australian Aborigines) and the Far East (C2, Tungus, Mongols and Manchu).
                    1. AllBiBek
                      AllBiBek 2 June 2020 15: 34 New
                      0
                      The young man with Markina Gora will definitely not agree with you.
                      1. Operator
                        Operator 2 June 2020 16: 04 New
                        -1
                        This is the essence of the hypothesis of Anatoly Klesov about the non-African origin of the Homo sapiens species of a single anatomical structure - since there is a direct intermediate haplogroup between the African haplogroups of group A (from 000 to 1, the first ancestor lived 220 thousand years ago) and all other haplogroups (from B to T , the first ancestor lived 67 thousand years ago) was not found, the vast majority of the world's population came from one ancestor in Southeast Asia.

                        Purebred carriers of haplogroups A are currently African bushmen and Hottentots (with an excessively arched spine and a large deposition of fat on the buttocks and groin), in the remaining regions of Africa, carriers of A make up a few percent of the local population. Since the 20th millennium BC the indigenous inhabitants of Africa were supplanted by Asians - carriers of haplogroup E (from 1 to 3). Later Asian migrants - pygmies (B), Semites (J1, Ethiopians, Somalis) and Erbins (R1b, up to 75% West Africa, up to 10% Berber), etc.
                      2. AllBiBek
                        AllBiBek 2 June 2020 16: 09 New
                        +2
                        I already understood that in your head such heresy as Klyosov's "hypothesis" works as a system-forming core.

                        Do you even know that it is a hodgepodge on open sources a quarter of a century ago, and stretched on a commercial basis? It’s like a sect of witnesses of the USSR, the same commercial crap based on the New Age.

                        However, I suspect that you have been told this more than once, and I suspect that if they say it again, nothing will change. The brain reluctantly parted with comfortable delusions. Especially if there is a transition from Klimov to Klyosov, it’s already close to Tyunyaevp.
                      3. Operator
                        Operator 2 June 2020 16: 10 New
                        -1
                        As for haplogroups, there is generally a vacuum in your head.

                        Work better on your brain - where was the mouth of the Nepryadva River in 1380? bully
                      4. AllBiBek
                        AllBiBek 2 June 2020 16: 17 New
                        +1
                        I just understand them, I’m just not making myself a specialist in this field. In the context of archeology, they are a secondary source of information, and paleogenetics are engaged in it with us, which really worthwhile information pulls out of them all.

                        Do you even know that Klyosov is not even a certified geneticist?
                      5. Operator
                        Operator 2 June 2020 17: 09 New
                        -1
                        Why then do you comment on topics in which you do not have a diploma? laughing
                      6. AllBiBek
                        AllBiBek 2 June 2020 17: 25 New
                        +1
                        How do you understand haplogroups according to Klesov, and don’t know the answer to this question?
                        Strange, it seemed to me that the Klesovites had an answer to any, moreover, it is letter-number-letter-number, where the letter is uppercase or not, and the number is not more than four.
                      7. Operator
                        Operator 2 June 2020 17: 37 New
                        -2
                        Those. You do not know where the mouth of the Nepryadva River was located in 1380? bully
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 31 May 2020 09: 07 New
    +4
    with the advent of Abrahamic religions, decline and degradation,
    The reasons for the decline of antique culture were: the great migration of peoples, the late antique ice age and the "Justinian plague". All three phenomena are related. The second, in addition, caused the emergence of one of the Abrahamic religions.
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 31 May 2020 11: 22 New
      +7
      Quote: 3x3zsave
      with the advent of Abrahamic religions, decline and degradation,
      The reasons for the decline of antique culture were: the great migration of peoples, the late antique ice age and the "Justinian plague". All three phenomena are related. The second, in addition, caused the emergence of one of the Abrahamic religions.

      Greetings Anton hi
      The flood as the cause of Judaism? Interesting version)).
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 31 May 2020 11: 25 New
        +5
        Hi Albert!
        I meant Islam.
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 31 May 2020 11: 34 New
          +4
          Oh ... can I read more?
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 31 May 2020 13: 05 New
            +5
            There are many factors. One of them, a population explosion caused by climate softening, provoked, in turn, by an early medieval climatic pessimum (aka the Late Antique Small Ice Age).
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 31 May 2020 13: 13 New
              +4
              Quote: 3x3zsave
              There are many factors. One of them, a population explosion caused by climate softening, provoked, in turn, by an early medieval climatic pessimum (aka the Late Antique Small Ice Age).

              AND? How did this influence the decision of the Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) to begin the spread of Islam? Christianity with Judaism was popular in Jazeera, but the bulk of the population were pagans. Centers of trade and crafts were located in settlements built in oases on trade routes. I do not see in all of the above factors contributing to the emergence of yet another monotheistic religion, in addition to the work of Mohammed himself (pbuh).
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 31 May 2020 13: 27 New
                +4
                Magomed began to preach not from scratch. Monotheistic beliefs among the Arab tribes appeared in the V century. With the expansion of the tribal system in society, a need arose for a new unifying idea. All this, I repeat, overlapped with the demographic surge.
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 31 May 2020 13: 51 New
                  +3
                  Let's just say - the growing popularity of Christianity + a lot of Jews settled there
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 31 May 2020 13: 55 New
                    +4
                    Undoubtedly!
    2. Catfish
      Catfish 31 May 2020 13: 48 New
      +7
      Caused, caused, and how !!! wassat
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 31 May 2020 13: 50 New
        +4
        So that's who "iPhones" bitten !!!
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 31 May 2020 14: 08 New
          +2
          Namely: "I can't get it all, but I'll bite at once." laughing
  • Moskovit
    Moskovit 31 May 2020 11: 41 New
    +7
    In China, India, Japan there were no Abrahamic religions. Are they far from the Europeans?
  • Krasnoyarsk
    Krasnoyarsk 31 May 2020 20: 41 New
    -1
    Quote: Pessimist22
    It’s very interesting to study history,

    Have you decided to study history according to Shpakovsky’s short stories? laughing
  • voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 31 May 2020 22: 07 New
    +4
    Decline was not connected at all with the change of religions, but with demographic shifts.
    Relocation of tribes and peoples, plus - epidemics, climate change.
    But the influence of the Roman Empire on Europe did not disappear, but all remained
    early Middle Ages. The excavations of the royal tombs confirm this.
    in England. The first kings were both Christians and pagans (Roman gods)
    Simultaneously.
  • Asad
    Asad 31 May 2020 05: 46 New
    +8
    Thanks to the author, interesting article! Deserved plus!
    1. cost
      cost 31 May 2020 11: 35 New
      +7
      I support Nikolay. Good article. good Thanks to the author
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 31 May 2020 06: 22 New
    +5
    this island is such a quiet sleepy place that it’s hard to imagine those who come to rest there. Well, at least a little “life” and civilization in the worst sense of the word ...

    I am so, I don't have any "civilization" in a bad sense - in the form of screaming discos, alcoholic rivers with stinking kebabs and stupid animators - I don't need a hundred years ...

    The buildings had a completely urban character: the walls that protected the settlement from enemies, public wells, paved streets, sewers, gravel-covered roads leading from the city, that is, everything that distinguishes an urban-type settlement from a rural one.

    Sewerage is the highest level of development, even now 10% of urban residents do not have it.
    I wonder if there were any sewage treatment plants, although, most likely, they dumped them into the sea ...
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 31 May 2020 06: 55 New
      +8
      I think the oldest "sewage treatment plant" is the "cesspool"!
      Even under a rustic toilet, such as a wooden toilet, it must be done wisely and savvy!
      Good Sunday to all !!!
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 31 May 2020 07: 07 New
        0
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        I think the oldest "sewage treatment plant" is "Cesspool»!

        not really, I think so: a sewage treatment plant is a construction where the contents of it are transported for processing
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 31 May 2020 07: 16 New
          +5
          Quote: Olgovich
          Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
          I think the oldest "sewage treatment plant" is "Cesspool»!

          not really, I think so: a sewage treatment plant is a construction where the contents of it are transported for processing

          Andrei, after all, you have gone far from the origins of civilization! The contents of wooden latrines are quite good fertilizer !!! Traditionally, in normal houses they are "scooped out" in the spring and put into greenhouses !!!
          Without ernism, seriously!
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 31 May 2020 07: 48 New
            -1
            Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
            Traditionally, in normal houses they are "scooped out" in the spring and put into greenhouses !!!

            This is the first time I hear this, even though I have lived 25 years with such "conveniences" myself in the city and in the countryside, and I still come across it. recourse

            Usually, they either pump out or transfer the "house" from the filled pit to a new one (although we also installed mini SBO for private traders).

            Sludge from silt sites OS cities, yes, use. but it is already .t.s., a recycled product
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 31 May 2020 08: 17 New
              10
              Andrei hi
              The difference is in geography. Where you live, "spit into the ground - grapes will grow." The fertilization method given by Vlad is traditional for the Non-Black Earth Region. And where I was born and raised, the fertile layer is generally created by hand.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 31 May 2020 10: 24 New
                +3
                Quote: 3x3zsave
                Andrei
                The difference is in geography. Where you live, "spit into the ground - grapes will grow." The fertilization method given by Vlad is traditional for the Non-Black Earth Region

                hello Anton!

                in the Smolensk region, the Temkinsky district, he spent all his childhood in the village — he had never seen or heard such a thing: toilets on the edge of a ravine, where everything went.

                Manure, yes, fertilized.
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 31 May 2020 10: 30 New
                  +3
                  As I understand it, this happened before Khrushchev drained cattle stock for stew?
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 31 May 2020 10: 51 New
                    +3
                    Quote: 3x3zsave
                    As I understand it, this happened before Khrushchev drained cattle stock for stew?

                    1960s, 1970s

                    There were a lot of cows. through the house, but we didn’t have it, we took manure in the calf.

                    and without it, nothing grew — the earth is red-yellow, the clay alone ...
                2. voyaka uh
                  voyaka uh 31 May 2020 22: 13 New
                  +2
                  There was no cattle breeding in Japan. And the land was not fertile.
                  Therefore, the rice fields were fertilized exclusively by human
                  excrement. Collecting high rice crops.
                  Special services exported the contents of night pots every day
                  from cities to fields. It smelled, of course.
                  But there was no hunger.
                  1. Local from the Volga
                    Local from the Volga 4 June 2020 01: 31 New
                    0
                    headquarters ???? there was no cattle breeding in japan ??? !!!!
          2. KVU-NSVD
            KVU-NSVD 31 May 2020 08: 55 New
            +8
            Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
            Traditionally, in normal houses they are "scooped out" in the spring and put into greenhouses !!!

            Yes, everything in your greenhouses will "burn out" from a human svezhak. The filled toilets are buried, a new one is dug, and when it is full after a certain number of years, the previous one is dug out for reuse and dug into the garden. I say. as a resident of a private owner with a lifelong experience.
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 31 May 2020 09: 14 New
              +5
              Yes, everything in your greenhouses will "burn out" from a human svezhak.
              I agree. My grandmother boggled with water and watered the open beds in the resulting product. (Location: Vladimir Region)
              1. KVU-NSVD
                KVU-NSVD 31 May 2020 09: 16 New
                0
                Quote: 3x3zsave
                . My grandmother boggled with water and watered the open beds in the resulting product. (

                There is such an option, but it is very smelly. In addition, you must have a very low threshold of disgust.
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 31 May 2020 09: 22 New
                  +4
                  With a pension of 65 rubles, there’s nothing to buy manure. So she especially did not have to choose. And she didn’t need so much fertilizer (manure was driven by cars)
            2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 31 May 2020 10: 53 New
              +3
              From the closets, the bottom row of the greenhouse is laid out. Higher livestock manure. Even higher humus.
              Every year, the greenhouse is transferred to a new garden.
              1. KVU-NSVD
                KVU-NSVD 31 May 2020 10: 59 New
                +4
                Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
                From the closets, the bottom row of the greenhouse is laid out. Higher livestock manure. Even higher humus.

                And what is the thickness of the top layer? If the roots of the plants reach fresh manure, then the plant is guaranteed to die. The most caustic shit - from a person, pigs and poultry - all of them have to "cure" at least four or five years, a cow - two, three, a horse (the best) one year is enough.
                1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                  Kote Pan Kokhanka 31 May 2020 11: 48 New
                  +1
                  Quote: KVU-NSVD
                  Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
                  From the closets, the bottom row of the greenhouse is laid out. Higher livestock manure. Even higher humus.

                  And what is the thickness of the top layer? If the roots of the plants reach fresh manure, then the plant is guaranteed to die. The most caustic shit - from a person, pigs and poultry - all of them have to "cure" at least four or five years, a cow - two, three, a horse (the best) one year is enough.

                  I didn’t think about it! The height of the beds. 30 centimeters. She was completely raised to the top. The edges were covered with manure. The height of the greenhouse is 60-70 centimeters. In a year. Just a high bed.
                  Cow dung was always laid out throughout the year. Horse, but always lay underneath or scattered around the garden before digging in.
                  Moreover, Anton’s way to water the plantings. Grandma also used. Especially watering cabbage, with a ladle on a long handle.
                  Compost pit, I made the first in the pit. Prior to this, everyone was dragged into a dunghill (garbage dump) for a snack.
                  1. KVU-NSVD
                    KVU-NSVD 31 May 2020 12: 00 New
                    +3
                    Well, maybe I'm not a chopper guru and not a compost pit lord .. request I just know that fresh manure cannot be used. I found the only use for fresh meat in a greenhouse in this capacity - in a greenhouse around the perimeter over the ground I laid it out so that it did not come into contact with the plants, planted seedlings and covered with a film. The goal - at the end of March, in the first half of April, this overheated manure served as a "heater". With the establishment of norms. weather I put it back on a pile ..
          3. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 31 May 2020 10: 55 New
            +4
            Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
            Traditionally, in normal houses they are "scooped out" in the spring and put into greenhouses !!!

            We always did this in the fall. Stir a barrel of water there, scoop it up and scoop it out, spreading it around the garden into beds. And in the spring, greenhouses used cow dung.
          4. BAI
            BAI 31 May 2020 11: 30 New
            +1
            in the spring they "dig out" and let them in the greenhouses !!!

            Not rotten do not let. And he needs to rot for several years.
          5. Undecim
            Undecim 31 May 2020 14: 12 New
            +4
            Traditionally, in normal houses they are "scooped out" in the spring and put into greenhouses !!!
            Here it is! For sixty years, I have not seen a single normal house in which human ... feces were used in the garden.
      2. AllBiBek
        AllBiBek 31 May 2020 10: 29 New
        +3
        In the affected period and region, everything was a little wrong.

        There is a dwelling that is a toilet - a semi-dug-out type, and actually closet - it is a large jug buried in the ground.
      3. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 1 June 2020 12: 43 New
        +1
        I think the oldest "sewage treatment plant" is the "cesspool"!

        yeah, and the most ancient head of the paid toilets service was Emperor Vespasian personally! wink
    2. AllBiBek
      AllBiBek 31 May 2020 10: 26 New
      +6
      An indicator of a high level of development is centralized water supply, and local sewerage in rich neighborhoods, and public toilets are in poor ones, this is not an indicator even once. They are ubiquitous than you think.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 31 May 2020 12: 00 New
        +1
        Quote: AllBiBek
        An indicator of a high level of development is centralized water supply, and local sewerage in rich neighborhoods, and public toilets are in poor ones, this is not an indicator even once.


        when plumbing network washed sewer drains. which infiltrate them from sort is not a civilization,

        this is a potential bomb, which even today sometimes explodes in the event of leaks by the VK-not for nothing that the water network and the channel are laid in insulating cases even with a simple intersection. And still happen ...

        I was engaged in the construction of water supply networks in small towns and villages - increasing consumption increases the canal. effluents that poison the soil and water, how not to collect them (and many do not collect them).

        Therefore, it is the center. Sewerage is a necessary sign of a real civilization
        1. AllBiBek
          AllBiBek 31 May 2020 14: 03 New
          +4
          The city service for the removal of sewage on schedule was still in Ur and Lagash, if not mistaken.

          And so, as I already wrote, the toilet in ancient cities is a requirement, the toilet there is not a hole in the ground, as it might seem right away. Moreover, there and in livestock pens, humming of the underlayer is very modest, that is, the shit behind the cattle was also removed promptly, and, if possible, put into action right there. For fuel, and for adding to ceramic dough of all kinds.
    3. cost
      cost 31 May 2020 10: 31 New
      +5
      It is assumed that Poliochni was a trading rival of Troy, and as a result of this competition fell into decay around 2000 BC. e. A place for public meetings was discovered in Poliochni - probably one of the oldest evidence of a social structure resembling democracy.
      Photo . excavations of Poliochni

      Photo . ancient forum Poliohni
    4. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 31 May 2020 11: 26 New
      +4

      I am so, I don't have any "civilization" in a bad sense - in the form of screaming discos, alcoholic rivers with stinking kebabs and stupid animators - I don't need a hundred years ...

      To you in Zurich. Hotel in a castle overlooking the lake, excursion women at 1500 thousand Euros for 3 hours, shopping at Bahnhofstrasse ..))
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 31 May 2020 11: 59 New
        +3
        Expensive, pathos and little intellectual.
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 31 May 2020 13: 54 New
          +2
          Why is it unintelligent? In three hours you will hear about life in Zhmerinka / Stary Oskol, and if you want to diversify your emotional state or expand your horizons, then Snezhana should dial the phone number and say “Yakhvlo, Ahmed ...” into the phone.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 31 May 2020 13: 58 New
            +3
            The presence of personal experience is felt. laughing
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 31 May 2020 14: 06 New
              +1
              I AM?? Not like that.
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 31 May 2020 14: 07 New
                +2
                Are you waiting for the bus? laughing
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 31 May 2020 14: 08 New
                  +2
                  Nine! Tramffaya mit Wai Faye
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 31 May 2020 14: 12 New
                    +2
                    By the way, Gorelektrotrans SPb equipped its rolling stock with this option a couple of years ago.
                    1. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 31 May 2020 14: 18 New
                      +2
                      Civilization)) The Jerusalem tram about 4 years ago, EMNIP. True, the scale with St. Petersburg can not be compared
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 31 May 2020 14: 24 New
                        +4
                        But in Jerusalem, this is an evolutionary process, and in St. Petersburg - the festival
                      2. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 31 May 2020 14: 32 New
                        +1
                        That's for sure - and they built tram tracks in the capital of Israel, which were quite short by Russian standards, almost a decade))) If not more
                      3. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 31 May 2020 14: 36 New
                        +2
                        If I am not mistaken, is there one line parallel to the border of the former Palestinian enclave?
                      4. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 31 May 2020 14: 51 New
                        +1
                        Quite right - or rather, the former border of 1967
                      5. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 31 May 2020 20: 04 New
                        +2
                        Mdaaa. I regret that my acquaintance with this city turned out to be short-term and chaotic!
                      6. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 31 May 2020 20: 18 New
                        +1
                        For good - three days is necessary to explore all the interesting places.
                        Day - Old Town and its environs
                        Day - Monasteries, churches and all that
                        Day - Historic Sites of West Jerusalem and Just Hang Out
                      7. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 31 May 2020 20: 28 New
                        +2
                        Well yes! The format "Paris for three hours" absolutely does not suit me !!! Bus tours of great cities are not mine! I wish I had exchanged 2 hours at the Dead Sea for an extra 20 minutes in Jerusalem! But all in panty, + another Palestinian hipieh (the guide scored more sightseers) ... In short, I liked the city, but I "didn't pass" it at all! I would like to return.
                      8. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 31 May 2020 20: 33 New
                        +1
                        In the Dead Sea, there’s nothing to do, to be honest. Unless to visit the lowest point of the earth's land for show.
                      9. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 31 May 2020 20: 40 New
                        +2
                        There is something to see there for those interested in the history of the Promised Land industry development. But "turrie" is not carried there.
                      10. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 31 May 2020 21: 47 New
                        +1
                        This must be ordered a very specialized tour)).
                      11. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 31 May 2020 23: 01 New
                        +1
                        This must be ordered a very specialized tour)).
                        Yes nafig need! For this money, I will buy a diploma in journalism at a "supernumerary" university in the Russian Federation.
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 31 May 2020 16: 56 New
    +1
    Quote: Krasnodar
    To you in Zurich. Hotel in the castle overlooking the lake, excursionists 1500 thousand Euros each in 3 hours, shopping at Bahnhofstrasse ..))

    From this kind of places I prefer Baden Baden and better in the early fall. Above, the Stadtclinik is already a beautiful forest. streams, lakes, practically without people, but with paths. The beauty!

    PS Shaw for excursionists for .... 1 euros ?! belay
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 31 May 2020 17: 01 New
      +3
      And, well, if such a vacation, then try Austria - cheaper than in Baden-Baden, and sometimes with a higher quality))
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 31 May 2020 17: 07 New
        -1
        Quote: Krasnodar
        And, well, if such a vacation, then try Austria - cheaper than in Baden-Baden, and sometimes with a higher quality))

        was in Innsbruck: not that ....
        1. Liam
          Liam 31 May 2020 17: 10 New
          +1
          Kolyma is the most.
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 31 May 2020 17: 36 New
            +2
            Going to Magadan!
            1. Liam
              Liam 31 May 2020 17: 40 New
              +1
              Why. You really saw the world. Not a pathos inetbrehun) hi
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 31 May 2020 18: 08 New
                +1
                Not really
                In China and nowhere overseas have been
        2. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 31 May 2020 17: 48 New
          +1
          Quote: Olgovich
          Quote: Krasnodar
          And, well, if such a vacation, then try Austria - cheaper than in Baden-Baden, and sometimes with a higher quality))

          was in Innsbruck: not that ....

          The taste and color)).
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 1 June 2020 07: 24 New
            0
            Quote: Krasnodar
            was in Innsbruck: not that ....

            The taste and color)).

            I’m talking specifically about impressions, I don’t know about prices, because the employer invited the company ...
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 1 June 2020 09: 55 New
              +1
              Did not buy some water and coffee?
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 1 June 2020 10: 10 New
                0
                Quote: Krasnodar
                Did not buy some water and coffee?

                I do not use coffee / alcohol / cigarettes at all, I spent it. almost nothing...
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 1 June 2020 12: 56 New
                  +1
                  Class
                  If you have breakfast, lunch and dinner in a hotel with full board, then it's cool
    2. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 31 May 2020 23: 56 New
      0
      PS Shaw for excursionists for .... 1 euros ?! belay

      With legs and face, Russian-speaking, as a rule))
  • samarin1969
    samarin1969 31 May 2020 06: 46 New
    +6
    "... the Neolithic period (Black period, 3700-3200 BC) it was a small village of oval huts occupying the very center of the hill."

    Archaeologists find the remains of Neolithic settlements under many cities. And this does not give the right to date the emergence of the "city", for example, the XNUMXth millennium BC. But all the same - very impressive. Thanks to the author! Visually, unusual, informative. III millennium BC already looks quite "globalistic".
    1. AllBiBek
      AllBiBek 31 May 2020 10: 34 New
      +4
      It’s getting harder and harder than it seems to find out the continuity of the population and material culture from period to period - this is archeology.

      "Neolithic" in this context - this means that their layer for the period there are no metal objects, maximum slag. Here it is more likely a "pre-metallurgical period of settlement", and it will somehow start from Neolithic technologies.

      Neolithic - they are like women, they are different, but everyone has in common with everyone.
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 31 May 2020 06: 55 New
    +6
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    However, I strongly disagree with the title of the material. The muzzle of the culture of Los Millares is modern Poliochni.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 31 May 2020 07: 06 New
      +6
      Hello Anton. Then if you need to compare infrastructure intellectually. As someone joked “the presence of gold toilets does not prove the presence of steam heating, hot water and lipesticism in this communal medalist. And in general, who will drive the cave Leo out of it. Is he there? Well, in any cave there is a cave lion! Why, dear, we do not see him. Well, firstly, we did not go there. Secondly, we have two shopping bags with products. He probably hopes that they will give us a fridge for our wedding. Shirley you are welcome to come first "!!!! laughing
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 31 May 2020 07: 12 New
        +6
        Vlad! hi
        "The settlement was surrounded by three concentric walls with 4 bastions. Radiocarbon analysis showed that one of the walls was destroyed and rebuilt around 3025 BC."
        This is only from Wiki.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 31 May 2020 07: 47 New
          +3
          Assessment of urban settlements by the type of protective structures is worthy of study. Although the "sewer vector" seems to be funnier probably !!!
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 31 May 2020 08: 03 New
            +4
            On the contrary, he is very serious. For the level of development of communal infrastructure is directly tied to the level of socialization of society.
  • The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 31 May 2020 07: 21 New
    +6
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich. I never wondered where the oldest city is. And now at least a little "savvy")))
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 31 May 2020 07: 51 New
      +4
      I’m more interested in which modern city is the oldest! Moreover, to emphasize the continuity of its existence !!!!
      1. Pessimist22
        Pessimist22 31 May 2020 07: 55 New
        +3
        Athens was founded around 4000 BC, Aleppo is a very ancient city.
      2. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 31 May 2020 07: 58 New
        +5
        Probably mentioned in the article Jericho.
        1. Pessimist22
          Pessimist22 31 May 2020 08: 01 New
          -1
          Yeah, and the Jews are the first people on earth smile
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 31 May 2020 08: 08 New
            +4
            And what about the Jews? The first settlements on the site of Jericho date from the 10th millennium BC. e. Today, this city is part of the Palestinian Authority.
            1. AllBiBek
              AllBiBek 31 May 2020 10: 44 New
              +6
              In the suburbs there is such a city - Zaraysk is called - there the first long-term settlements on its territory are 25 thousand years ago, these are mammoth hunters, these are long-term parking lots with a clear layout (and for thousands of years), and all this beauty is directly inside the walls of his Kremlin, or rather, the Kremlin is built right into a pack of parking lots.

              But this does not mean that they lived continuously.

              As far as I remember, Jericho stands at the outcrops of flint (weak, but still), and where in the Stone Age there is an outflow of raw materials - there will always be someone to live, for a long time, or even on an ongoing basis.

              10-12 thousand years ago, even in those parts - it is good if the Mesolithic began, the villages there are long-term, but not permanent. Hunger is not an aunt, but stones cannot be eaten.
            2. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 31 May 2020 11: 32 New
              +2
              Quote: 3x3zsave
              And what about the Jews? The first settlements on the site of Jericho date from the 10th millennium BC. e. Today, this city is part of the Palestinian Authority.

              That's right. Could become the most prosperous city in the region thanks to the Austrians who built a casino there, however, in 2000, snipers began to work from the upper floors of the building, they were driven out by tank shooting. Casinos were closed, the city turned into a normal Middle Eastern hole without oil.
          2. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 31 May 2020 11: 10 New
            +9
            Quote: Pessimist22
            Jews are the first people on earth

            The first people on earth - homo habilis - were hardly Jews. It is difficult to do circumcision with a stone scraper or chop.
            1. AllBiBek
              AllBiBek 31 May 2020 14: 08 New
              +5
              I am begging you...
              All mummification in ancient Egypt, for example, it is obsidian plates. Anyone in sharpness will give a scalpel to anybody when fresh.

              True, they only learned to pinch the cores on the plates at the end of the moustier, and not the Neanderthals.

              But a Neanderthal keilmesser to carry out such an operation with such an allowance for the error of the strong cut line is easy. This can be a jib, it is exactly the size of your palm.

              And to pick up a sharp flake - and their sea around after the manufacture of any weapon - all the more so as to cut two fingers about them.
              1. Trilobite Master
                Trilobite Master 31 May 2020 14: 35 New
                +3
                Quote: AllBiBek
                I am begging you...

                You insist ... laughing
                Well, now it’s clear what the first habilis was doing on African moonlit nights ... They became Jews! laughing
                1. AllBiBek
                  AllBiBek 31 May 2020 14: 39 New
                  +5
                  Well, this is still unknown, but the fact that they were picking with chopsticks in their teeth is a fact.

                  One of the habilis found in Dmanisi eventually died from this.

                  Oh, and he shouted before his death, probably ... brrr. I do not wish the enemy.
            2. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 31 May 2020 14: 15 New
              +3
              Quote: Trilobite Master

              The first people on earth - homo habilis - were hardly Jews. It is difficult to do circumcision with a stone scraper or chop.

              But if at the root ... circumcision was immediately required, I cut the yak for the cebe, Sarah was more than a little surprised,
              Double - nothing left
          3. Operator
            Operator 31 May 2020 14: 47 New
            +2
            The Jews, led by Moses, came to Canaan from Egypt only in 1300 BC. Prior to this, their ancestors of the habiru were nomadic herders. Therefore, everything that is older is not their work.
      3. AllBiBek
        AllBiBek 31 May 2020 10: 38 New
        +5
        Still, probably Luxor.
        Egypt is the second agricultural civilization in the world, and the first in the world with the relative centralization of agriculture. And the archeology of Luxor goes into the pre-dynastic period.
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 31 May 2020 11: 33 New
          +1
          Likely
        2. Operator
          Operator 31 May 2020 14: 48 New
          0
          And what side does Africa relate to the topic of the article? laughing
          1. AllBiBek
            AllBiBek 31 May 2020 15: 04 New
            +1
            The question in the discussions was about the oldest in the world.
            Is Africa another planet?
            Although...
            1. Operator
              Operator 31 May 2020 15: 14 New
              -1
              The title of the article sounds like: "The very first city in Europe".
              1. AllBiBek
                AllBiBek 31 May 2020 15: 18 New
                +2
                And the site is called "Voennoye Obozreniye", and if you follow the commentary thread, the root question was about the oldest city in the world).
                1. Operator
                  Operator 31 May 2020 15: 32 New
                  +1
                  In the comments of which there is nothing: the most lethal - about the construction of latrines in Russia laughing
                  1. AllBiBek
                    AllBiBek 31 May 2020 16: 10 New
                    0
                    Well, in the Moscow region and its environs, the oldest of me known is the 8th – 9th centuries of ours. Vyatichi. This is a sewer with ceramic pipes.
    2. cost
      cost 31 May 2020 11: 10 New
      +2
      There is one more contender for this title. Nora in Sardinia. According to Herodotus - he appeared at the same time as the legendary Tartesian Gadir - "when there was no Hellas yet." According to Homer, in the Burrow there was a cult of the lion-headed goddess Tanith Celestis, to whom children were sacrificed. For this, an angry Poseidon sent a "great wave" to Nora. Indeed, today most of the ancient city is under water. Most of the mysterious unusual megalithic structures - the Nurags - are also under water. Nuraghes have also survived on land.

      the ruins of Nora







      It is noteworthy that, according to legend, the Roman goddess Juno was born in Nora
      1. AllBiBek
        AllBiBek 31 May 2020 14: 16 New
        +5
        Nora has two periods when the city was completely abandoned for a long time, and then came to ruins, and rebuilt within new borders.

        So it is not considered whether local lore experts and representatives of the travel industry want this or not.

        The same goes for the Bible. But Damascus - did not interrupt.
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 1 June 2020 07: 19 New
          0
          At least in Damascus they talk about Damascus. Which is not surprising.
      2. The comment was deleted.
  • Free wind
    Free wind 31 May 2020 08: 23 New
    +4
    It would be interesting if only in terms of looking at the remains of the settlement, and about at least the purpose of the buildings. In ancient Greek myths, like this island is often mentioned. Well, about a sleepy life, we would have driven more than any swill, so civilization would have been in full swing or crowbar, but the locals probably do not need it.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 31 May 2020 08: 48 New
      +3
      In ancient Greek myths, like this island is often mentioned.
      Oh yeah! "Homeland" of Hephaestus and the Amazons.
      1. cost
        cost 31 May 2020 11: 31 New
        +4
        Good morning, Anton hi
        Lemnos Island is not the homeland of the Amazons.
        According to Greek mythology, Lemnos women forgot to sacrifice Aphrodite, for which the goddess was angry, and she sent a terrible stench to them. Then the men began to cheat on them with the Thracians. And one night, the Lemnians killed all the men on the island and began to rule it themselves.
        Homer told about this in his "Argonauts":
        When the Argonauts, led by Jason, during their campaign for the Golden Fleece arrived on an island controlled by women, Queen Gipsypila wanted to attack them with weapons, but she was persuaded to accept them in peace. In honor of the arrival of the heroes, Gipsypila instituted pentathlon competitions. Thus, Lemnos is considered the birthplace of modern pentathlon.

        Amazons are a little different. According to myth, Amazons lived on the banks of the Amazon River, near the rivers Fermodont and Iris, now Yeshilirmak. Historian A. B. Snisarenko believed that the range of the tribe practically coincides with the contours of Turkish vilayets Amasia and Samsun. From here, the Amazons undertook their campaigns in Asia. According to myth, they built Ephesus, Smyrna and other cities. Mythological tradition marks the “traces” of the Amazons from Euboea and Boeotia to Tanais and the Caspian
        Plutarch reported that the Amazons lived on the Caucasus ridge along the Caspian coast from the mouth of the Kura to the Samur River, and in some times to Derbent. He also clarified that they are not direct neighbors of the Albans, Gels and Legs, although they will wage constant wars with them
        Homer mentioned the wars of Bellerophon and the Phrygians with the Amazons. Hippolyta (according to other accounts, Antiope), the queen of the tribe, was killed by Heracles, who received instructions from Eurystheus to take her belt. During this campaign Theseus located Antiope, which resulted in the invasion of the Amazons in Attica. In Biographies, Plutarch, with reference to Gellanicus, talked about how the Amazons, crossing the ice through the Bosporus of Cimmeria, moved to Attica. After an unsuccessful four-month war with Theseus, the then ruler of Attica, the tribe returned to their homeland
        Under the command of Queen Pentesilea, the Amazons opposed the Greeks: together with King Priam they defended Troy from their attacks. In later legends, the legend of the Amazonian Queen Phalestra, who visited Alexander of Macedon, is mentioned in the legend.
        Amazons are mentioned in the old Russian annals of the "Tale of Bygone Years", information about which the chronicler Nestor took from George Amartol
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 31 May 2020 11: 37 New
          +3
          Dmitry! hi
          I'm talking about mythological Amazons. It was about the ancient Greek epic.
    2. AllBiBek
      AllBiBek 31 May 2020 16: 30 New
      +1
      https://studylib.ru/doc/2068151/ranne-grecheskij-polis

      For half a century in this area - what were the Mycenaean cities in terms of planning - that nifiga has not changed.

      But in an accessible language such generalizing works - alas, this skill has been lost here (.

      And not only with us.
  • Edward Vashchenko
    Edward Vashchenko 31 May 2020 08: 33 New
    +6
    Very interesting!!! Thanks for the Sunday morning!
  • Fishery
    Fishery 31 May 2020 10: 16 New
    +2
    pig is really nice)))
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 31 May 2020 11: 11 New
      +4
      The cat in its place, much more out of place! Although the question was whether in those years a cat was a pet, unlike a mumps?
      1. BAI
        BAI 31 May 2020 11: 34 New
        +3
        It seems to me that the cat was already a sacred animal in Egypt.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 31 May 2020 11: 53 New
          +3
          But were they home in the Cretan Minoan civilization?
          By the way, Europeans (conditionally) in the era under consideration used ferrets (Fessa) to fight rodents, but did the Greeks use the Elades (Felix) cats?
          1. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 31 May 2020 12: 23 New
            +3
            Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
            Europeans (conditionally) in the era under review used ferrets to fight rodents

            To combat the mice, initially, it seemed, they used affection and ermine. Only with the advent of rats did ferrets become involved in this matter.
      2. AllBiBek
        AllBiBek 31 May 2020 14: 36 New
        +3
        The Minoans do not; the Achaeans have a temple animal.

        Relative common home it since the Dorians.
      3. Free wind
        Free wind 31 May 2020 17: 17 New
        +1
        So then cats were widespread everywhere, forest cats, lumpy, and so on. P about the appearance and you can’t distinguish some go to the contact. Of course there were home ones. Nobody was likely to be engaged in domestication alone. these meowing creatures themselves came.
        1. AllBiBek
          AllBiBek 2 June 2020 15: 08 New
          0
          Well, don’t tell me, any osteologist of average level of preparation will give you a domestic cat from a reed, for example, it will determine by three bones. And if the level is above average, then he will do it by touch. A high-level specialist will do this one stone at a time, and even without touching it.

          Each species has its own pack of signs of domestication, and this is in addition to the common ones for any species.
  • Senior seaman
    Senior seaman 31 May 2020 10: 43 New
    +3
    for sulfur period

    which one?
  • Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master 31 May 2020 11: 13 New
    +5
    I read it with pleasure. Thanks to the author.
    It is interesting who the first of the pseudo-historians will appear in the comments - those who will prove that the Russian (Aryan) city or those who believe that this is all a remake and a hoax ...
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 31 May 2020 11: 23 New
      +5
      Do you bet? laughing
      1. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 31 May 2020 11: 31 New
        +5

        I put on the Operator. Two gauze dressings and a bottle for hand disinfection.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 31 May 2020 11: 42 New
          +5
          Received. Then I, on Bara. Sack "Rotband"
          1. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 31 May 2020 12: 24 New
            +4
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            Sack "Rotband"

            Is it like a Rolton? Or tastier?
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 31 May 2020 12: 26 New
              +5
              This is a type of gypsum-based plaster. The wealthier, the happier. request
              1. Trilobite Master
                Trilobite Master 31 May 2020 13: 34 New
                +4
                Damn, but I thought, I’m sure a couple of plates, if I win ... And then buckwheat already tired. laughing
                Isn’t there anything edible, Anton? Pickled Knauf or dried Macroflex not lying around? I would take ...
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 31 May 2020 13: 39 New
                  +5
                  I can offer "Soviet" dumplings. The very ones! With gray dough, in a cardboard box!
                  1. Hantengri
                    Hantengri 31 May 2020 18: 27 New
                    +3
                    Quote: 3x3zsave
                    I can offer "Soviet" dumplings. The very ones! With gray dough, in a cardboard box!

                    Stuck together in a homogeneous brick? If not, then this is a crude fake!
                    1. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 31 May 2020 18: 30 New
                      +3
                      Exactly! Only in my case they were fish (the specifics of the region), I tried meat ones in St. Petersburg.
                      1. Hantengri
                        Hantengri 31 May 2020 19: 25 New
                        +2
                        Quote: 3x3zsave
                        Only in my case they were fish (specifics of the region)

                        Quite tin! In Tashkent, in addition to the usual "brick" made from beef and onion dough, we also sold an Uzbek version called "Chuchvara" made of mutton. The taste, I must say, was "spisfi!" (C) ... smile
                      2. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 31 May 2020 19: 30 New
                        +3
                        Totally tin!
                        By the way, minced fish was quite decent!
      2. cost
        cost 31 May 2020 11: 44 New
        +6
        I put on the Operator. Two gauze dressings and a bottle for hand disinfection.

        At present, this is a pretty solid bet. yes It is unlikely that there are those who want to kill her. Let me clarify - is the bottle full? smile
        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 31 May 2020 12: 00 New
          +5
          Quote: Rich
          is the bottle full?

          Partially. smile
          Masks will also need to be washed. smile
        2. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 31 May 2020 12: 08 New
          +5
          Of course!
          “I myself, in principle, never took a single dollar from my neighbor without giving him something in return - whether it was a medallion of fake gold, or seeds of garden flowers, or ointment from a lumbago, or stock exchange papers, or powder from fleas, or at least a crack. "(c) laughing
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 31 May 2020 11: 19 New
    +5
    He covered the dried pigs with something modern for decorating the walls “for ceramics”, and four “ceramic” and even “antique” pigs came out, inside of which were placed gifts for his wife, daughter and granddaughter. They really enjoyed it. Here it is - a direct benefit from the ancient artifacts of the Bronze Age!

    Vyacheslav Olegovich put a pig to his ladies)).
    1. kalibr
      31 May 2020 12: 04 New
      +5
      But which one? They included chocolate candies, prunes and figs in chocolate, candy bottles with cognac, earphones for an iPhone and a super-fashioned tire on it, a gold chain with a pendant, and much more. So they gutted the pigs with great pleasure!
      1. cost
        cost 31 May 2020 12: 54 New
        +3
        They had chocolate candies, prunes and figs in chocolate, sweets

        Dear Vyacheslav, a new theme "Tastes of Our Childhood" is straightforward. Write an article. The number of comments will be outrageous hi Once again we plunge into the times of the USSR.
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 31 May 2020 13: 17 New
          +4
          Quote: Rich

          Dear Vyacheslav, a new theme "Tastes of Our Childhood" is straightforward. Write an article. The number of comments will be outrageous hi Once again we plunge into the times of the USSR.

          I support your request! In Moscow Shink (in my opinion), a year ago, I ate stale chocolate after a 25-year break, and recently, to my delight, they started selling it in a student café located near the house, from the Krasnodar producer.
          1. kalibr
            31 May 2020 16: 03 New
            +4
            Noticed! There will be material ....
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 31 May 2020 16: 04 New
              +4
              Many thanks! )))
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 31 May 2020 17: 00 New
                +5
                Vyacheslav Olegovich, as if he will visit his dacha, begins to express himself as "a kid from the district" laughing
        2. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 31 May 2020 13: 41 New
          +7
          Toffee "Zabava", ice cream with chocolate chips, cheesecakes with lingonberries.
          1. Aviator_
            Aviator_ 31 May 2020 14: 45 New
            +4
            "Fun" - the most expensive toffee were, 4 rubles. in the USSR they were, the last time I saw them on sale at the beginning of the XNUMXs. And that's all.
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 31 May 2020 14: 49 New
              +5
              It is understandable! Cocoa was present in their composition.
      2. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 31 May 2020 13: 15 New
        +3
        Quote: kalibr
        But which one? They included chocolate candies, prunes and figs in chocolate, candy bottles with cognac, earphones for an iPhone and a super-fashioned tire on it, a gold chain with a pendant, and much more. So they gutted the pigs with great pleasure!

        Stuffed pig)).
        1. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 31 May 2020 14: 46 New
          +3
          Stuffed pig))

          Well, not all the same pike stuffed, tired already.
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 31 May 2020 15: 07 New
            +4
            You can still have camel lizards. )))
            1. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 31 May 2020 15: 31 New
              +3
              And not vice versa? Or then an Indonesian monitor lizard is needed?
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 31 May 2020 15: 37 New
                +4
                Camel on any more
            2. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 31 May 2020 16: 58 New
              +4
              We will expand the list of dishes to seafood. Sperm whale stuffed with squid!
    2. cost
      cost 31 May 2020 12: 14 New
      +6
      Famous 13th-century African bronze castings in Benin of animals, fish, people amazed researchers with their extraordinary authenticity and skill.





      But as an X-ray study of these artifacts showed, the secret to mastery was simple. The victim was chopped off his head, then coated with a thin layer of clay, then with a layer of wax, and again with a layer of clay. Then wax was melted, and bronze was poured in its place. Then the upper layer of clay was broken - and a bronze artifact was obtained.
      It was also possible for Vyacheslav Olegovich to act with the pig he made
      1. Lepilo
        Lepilo 31 May 2020 12: 19 New
        +3
        Quote: Rich
        It was also possible for Vyacheslav Olegovich to act with the pig he made

        laughing good Laughed heartily and thanks for the photo and clarification .. Scary "!
      2. AllBiBek
        AllBiBek 31 May 2020 15: 11 New
        +2
        Why cut off your head for this?

        It is enough to carefully print the face into the clay, get a negative, make a mask on it, mold the rest according to the sample, and take it as a basis.

        But in general, the information you provide is like a duck. If there is a skull inside - this is clear and without an X-ray, and if it is not there - that an X-ray, that a tomograph will at best give fingerprints to the person who sculpted.
  • Moskovit
    Moskovit 31 May 2020 12: 14 New
    +1
    I wonder who they were by nationality?
    1. Lepilo
      Lepilo 31 May 2020 12: 29 New
      -3
      Quote: Moskovit
      I wonder who they were by nationality?

      Anglo-Saxons or Jews naturally ..
      It would be better if the author wrote about Arkaim, here it’s really interesting .. Where did such a civilization in the center of Russia come from 3000-4000 BC
      1. kalibr
        31 May 2020 12: 59 New
        +6
        Quote: Lepilo
        It would be better if the author wrote about Arkaim, here it’s really interesting .. Where did such a civilization in the center of Russia come from 3000-4000 BC

        Let the supporters of Hyperborea and Ermak-Quetzalcoatl write. I don’t know where she came from; I didn’t have a revelation from Him. And I do not want to produce pseudoscientific parodies of science. As for Arkaim - Google to help, there ... Arkaim OUR EVERYTHING, the human race went from there, what really there ...
        1. Lepilo
          Lepilo 31 May 2020 13: 18 New
          -7
          Quote: kalibr
          Let the supporters of Hyperborea and Ermak-Quetzalcoatl write. I don’t know where she came from, I didn’t have a revelation from Him

          Thank you for the "honest" answer and did not expect anything like that from you in return ..
          Quote: kalibr
          About Arkaim - Google to help

          And Vicky still)))) That's where you get your "historical research" There usually everything about Russia faded .. You are our google historian laughing
          Write again, write everything .. Then ask!
          1. AllBiBek
            AllBiBek 31 May 2020 15: 21 New
            +4
            "Let's ask" - is who, with whom, and for what, if not a secret?

            And - please voice your sources of information on your point of view that you are promoting.
      2. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 31 May 2020 13: 24 New
        +8
        Quote: Lepilo
        Where did such a civilization in the center of Russia come from 3000-4000 BC

        Firstly, around the twentieth century BC, that is, a couple of millennia younger than Poliochni. Secondly, this small fenced settlement is only 170 m in diameter, that is, in fact, about nothing. Thirdly, there are plenty of such people around and not only - throughout Europe there are a lot of them - bigger, smaller, older, younger. This one was just better preserved than the rest.
        Why folk history rush around him so much is completely incomprehensible to me personally. Ordinary people of the Bronze Age. Moreover, it is completely unknown whether they have anything to do with us at all, except that they lived on the land that the Slavs came to in the XVII century, not earlier.
        The place is certainly interesting, but I'm afraid that what can be said about it from a scientific point of view, the advocates of "such" civilization are unlikely to like it.
        1. Lepilo
          Lepilo 31 May 2020 13: 45 New
          -8
          All clear ... hi I shouldn't have picked up "our great site historian" .... Let Mikhail write of course hi
          Where are we, we clawed soup cabbage, etc.
          1. Moskovit
            Moskovit 31 May 2020 14: 06 New
            +3
            Esoterics took up very tightly for Arkaim, so this name has become synonymous with quackery. Where is fiction, and where scientific knowledge is beyond understanding. My wife’s brother went there. He brought a magnet. I didn’t feel anything supernatural there. Secret knowledge is not received. If you have links to serious scientific work, it would be great to see them.
            1. Lepilo
              Lepilo 31 May 2020 14: 36 New
              -6
              Quote: Moskovit
              Where is fiction, and where scientific knowledge is beyond understanding. My wife’s brother went there. He brought a magnet. I didn’t feel anything supernatural there. Secret knowledge is not received. If you have links to serious scientific work, it would be great to see them.

              Magnets and forces have nothing to do with it .. It's just the time of creation and the level of civilization that's what's interesting (the pyramids are resting))) .. And Western "historians" keep silent about it stubbornly, as if Russia climbed trees in those days and lived in berologists with a bear. ...
              They hush up all this and do not particularly disseminate it in world archeology and the history of the ancient world ..
              PS We Russians do not like to PR and brag .. Let it be as it will!
              The main thing is that it is not razed to the ground with bulldozers .. Typically, the land was bought, etc. This is the main problem of our history of Russia, etc.
              And then we'll figure it out .. A lot of what else the Russian land keeps interesting!
              1. kalibr
                31 May 2020 16: 19 New
                +4
                Quote: Lepilo
                and the level of civilization is what’s interesting (the pyramids rest))

                So you write about the level of civilization and right there - where is the logic? You are afraid that they will level it with bulldozers. But here you can’t compare the pyramids with bulldozers ... And where, it turns out, is the level higher?
            2. AllBiBek
              AllBiBek 31 May 2020 15: 14 New
              +4
              Google the works of Zdanovich, he has dozens from Arkaim. He actually found him.

              And so, in a scientific pop format - google videos on request "Ivan Semyan", sintashtinskaya. bronze is for him.

              He is also a reenactor of authentic technology from his period.
          2. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 31 May 2020 14: 27 New
            +5
            Ivan Semyan. Archaeologist. Specializes in experimental archeology. Look, spend some time. And enlighten, and, at the same time, spare me the need to knock on the keyboard.
            1. Lepilo
              Lepilo 31 May 2020 14: 49 New
              -7
              Quote: Trilobite Master
              Ivan Semyan. Archaeologist. Specializes in experimental archeology. Look, spend some time. And enlighten, and, at the same time, spare me the need to knock on the keyboard.

              Googled again? Not even a minute could not stand seeing these faces ...
              1. Trilobite Master
                Trilobite Master 31 May 2020 14: 56 New
                +7
                Quote: Lepilo
                Googled again?

                I’m subscribed to this channel on YouTube, which I sincerely wish you smile
                Quote: Lepilo
                Not even a minute could not stand seeing these faces ...

                And from what they say, then in general, you probably would have been torn to pieces ... laughing
                But can you still risk it? It is not necessary to look there, although the finds are also demonstrated in the reconstruction of the appearance of the Arkaimians ... The main thing is the lecture itself. Narrated by a young Russian scientist in beautiful Russian. Give it a try. smile
                1. Lepilo
                  Lepilo 31 May 2020 15: 31 New
                  -6
                  Quote: Trilobite Master
                  I’m subscribed to this channel on YouTube, which I sincerely wish you

                  wassat Well .. Here I watch the majority on YouTube and Vicki sits and wise guys are .. How everything is familiar then! laughing
                  Quote: Trilobite Master
                  And from what they say, then, in general, you probably would have been torn to pieces ..

                  Alas, no, it was just ridiculous for me to look at these clever men seminars-trainings ..))))
                  Quote: Trilobite Master
                  Narrated by a young Russian scientist in beautiful Russian. Give it a try.

                  This is the essence of everything ... I remember at the end of the 80s, too, they gathered such young "reformers" at seminars in the United States .. Post a photo, or will you understand? wink
                  PS Judging by the yellowness of your nickname, are you here the sponsor of the site and all sorts of articles ..?
                  1. Trilobite Master
                    Trilobite Master 31 May 2020 17: 22 New
                    +4
                    Quote: Lepilo
                    I’m watching the majority on YouTube and Vicki is sitting

                    Think TV is better? laughing
                    I honestly haven’t read any special literature about Arkaim - I began to show a superficial interest in this topic solely because in certain circles this Arkaim has almost a sacred status. I took an interest. I knew family before (not personally, of course) from his reenactment videos, I know that he is a real scientist, I have no reason to distrust him. I think that for a layman I know enough about Arkaim. There are no reasons to consider this archaeological monument as anything more than just a monument.
                    Well, if you are so straightforwardly educated that you tell us, Siri, from which founts of wisdom do you draw your information? And then we will remain ignoramuses.
                    Quote: Lepilo
                    I remember at the end of the 80s they also gathered such young reformers in the USA for seminars

                    And you were not invited, right? I'm sorry, but I can not do anything. I myself would not call you.
                    Quote: Lepilo
                    the yellowness of your nick

                    Questions to the site administration - I did not paint it and did not ask anyone about it.
              2. AllBiBek
                AllBiBek 31 May 2020 15: 22 New
                +5
                Eka is rooting for you on behalf of a normal archaeologist, just like me from Chudinov and all sorts of Fomenok ...
                1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                  Kote Pan Kokhanka 31 May 2020 21: 05 New
                  +1
                  Quote: AllBiBek
                  Eka is rooting for you on behalf of a normal archaeologist, just like me from Chudinov and all sorts of Fomenok ...

                  I applaud !!!
                2. Operator
                  Operator 31 May 2020 23: 17 New
                  -3
                  Semen burns with napalm to the account of the most ancient chariots found in Arkaim (the earliest periodization is 2100 BC) - any specialist knows the place to find the most ancient chariots, horse harness and children's clay toys in the form of horse-drawn carts - Balkans, 3000 years BC (all human bone remains belong to carriers of the haplogroup R1a of the Black Sea subclade).

                  All bone remains in Arkaim belong to the carriers of this particular subclade. However, the dominant part of the Iranians are carriers of haplogroup J2, carriers of R1a of the Black Sea subclade make up only 15% (at the level of India and Anatolia). At the same time, purebred native speakers of J2 (preserved in the mountainous regions of the East Caucasus) Chechens and Ingush speaking non-Indo-European language suddenly.

                  Therefore, the words of Semyan should be approached critically.
          3. kalibr
            31 May 2020 15: 55 New
            +2
            Quote: Lepilo
            Where are we, we clawed soup cabbage, etc.

            Finally, a correct understanding of the situation!
        2. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 31 May 2020 13: 45 New
          +6
          Looks like we both lost laughing
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 31 May 2020 14: 19 New
            +4
            Your bet was covered with Lepila! Their regiment arrived.
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 31 May 2020 14: 28 New
              +4
              Alas, there is always Rzhevsky, "who vulgarizes everything."
          2. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 31 May 2020 14: 43 New
            +6
            Not fate, then. recourse
            Old experienced fighters take the day off and their places are taken by "young punks" ... laughing
            So we still have a lot of fights ahead, which means a lot of fun minutes and glorious victories! soldier laughing
            1. Lepilo
              Lepilo 31 May 2020 15: 36 New
              -5
              Quote: Trilobite Master
              Not fate, then. recourse
              Old experienced fighters take the day off and their places are taken by "young punks" ... laughing
              So we still have a lot of fights ahead, which means a lot of fun minutes and glorious victories! soldier laughing

              Saw further Shura ..)))) hi
      3. Operator
        Operator 31 May 2020 15: 00 New
        +2
        Settlements of the Arkaim type in the Urals were built by nomadic Black Sea arias and were younger in age than the settlements of the Mediterranean (beginning of the 2nd millennium BC).

        The settlements consisted of several concentric stone walls, blocked from above by wooden scaffolds that served as the floor for the second floor, and the roofs themselves were built above them. Every 50-60 years, old platforms and roofs were burned, and new ones were laid in their place.

        The Black Sea arias did not live long in the Urals (about 300 years), after which they migrated to regions with a more favorable climate - Central Asia, Iran, India, Altai, Xinjiang and Manchuria.
  • Operator
    Operator 31 May 2020 14: 29 New
    +1
    Lemnos is currently definitely a Greek island, but it’s only located not in Europe, but in Asia. Therefore, the author’s assertion about Poliochni as the very first European city is negligible.

    Moreover, judging by artifacts (similar to Trojans), the ancient population of the island belonged to Asia Minors (carriers of haplogroup J2), and not to Greeks (carriers of haplogroup E3).
    1. AllBiBek
      AllBiBek 31 May 2020 15: 17 New
      +1
      And what place is it in Asia when the geological border between Europe and Asia is the Ural Mountains?

      What is there and how the ancient Greeks believed is their, ancient Greeks, intimate difficulties.

      Mexico also belongs to the countries of South America, although it is not even on the same continent with them.
      1. Operator
        Operator 31 May 2020 15: 25 New
        +1
        When did this Anatolian Peninsula (to which Lemnos is closer) managed to move to Europe? laughing

        The border between the European and Asian subcontinent after the Ural Range runs along the Ural River, the Caspian Sea, the Greater Caucasus Mountain Range, the Black Sea and the Bosphorus and the Dardanelles, of course.

        PS Mexico is ethnographically related to Latin America, but geographically located on the North American continent.
        1. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 31 May 2020 17: 14 New
          +2
          The border between the European and Asian subcontinent after the Ural Range runs along the Ural River, the Caspian Sea, the Greater Caucasus Mountain Range, the Black Sea and the Bosphorus and the Dardanelles, of course.

          Not at all. After the Ural ridge, the border runs along the Mugodzhary, the Emba River, the coast of the Caspian Sea, the Kuma-Manych depression, then, as you have.
          1. Operator
            Operator 31 May 2020 18: 08 New
            +1
            In any case, the Anatolian Peninsula and the island of Lemnos are Asia.
            1. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 31 May 2020 19: 05 New
              +2
              Yes, I, in fact, do not argue. I just corrected the border a little. On the Ural River, the border was considered at the beginning of the twentieth century, in the middle of the twentieth century they decided to draw along the Mugodzhary, as an extension of the Ural ridge.
  • alexey alexeyev_2
    alexey alexeyev_2 31 May 2020 20: 40 New
    +1
    Well done shliman ... He opened a new direction in archeology ...
    1. AllBiBek
      AllBiBek 31 May 2020 23: 43 New
      +2
      It would be better if he didn’t do this ...
      Firstly, he unearthed it very barbarously, having no idea about the technique even of his time.
      Secondly, it would still be opened sooner or later, and it would be better later, and normal specialists. For every ten years after Schliemann, according to the methods of his time, they would have pulled out twice as much information.
      Thirdly, it stirred up the epidemic of treasure hunting. Given that most of the ancient monuments - this is such a progressive country with a respectable population like Turkey, and even not in its best times - the looting of monuments flourished. But any private person got the opportunity to collect Antiquity for a reasonable price. As a result, the best specialists in Antichka are the USSR in the post-war period and until the 90s.
      Fourth, "biblical archeology" emerged. It is of two types; the normal one, which searches and explores the cities mentioned in the Bible, and the American one, which is much more.
      And now there are mainly - creationists with American degrees who report only to their same offices that give them money. And their task is to prove that the Bible says everything verbatim. There, the days of creation, Adam and Eve, and so on.
      And from their methods and conclusions even local Dolboslavs will grab their heads ...
      1. alexey alexeyev_2
        alexey alexeyev_2 1 June 2020 11: 53 New
        0
        Yes, I didn’t mean it. Since the time of finding the treasure of Priam, they dug as many “antique” treasures as there was no gold mined throughout Greece ..
        1. AllBiBek
          AllBiBek 1 June 2020 15: 03 New
          0
          So most of the precious metals mined by mankind somewhere before the 17th century - still lie in the ground). Well, or at the bottom of the sea, and the solid part is still in the Scandinavian swamps. Ancestors loved to bury it.
  • deddem
    deddem 1 June 2020 08: 36 New
    +1
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    Magomed began to preach not from scratch. Monotheistic beliefs among the Arab tribes appeared in the V century. With the expansion of the tribal system in society, a need arose for a new unifying idea. All this, I repeat, overlapped with the demographic surge.

    Add another economic crisis caused by external causes: Iran, which acquired both trans-Arabian caravan routes as part of the war against Byzantium, decided to optimize the costs of bribes to the tribes from the southern (Meccan) route.
  • Ua3qhp
    Ua3qhp 1 June 2020 13: 23 New
    +1
    Quote: AllBiBek
    And what place is it in Asia when the geological border between Europe and Asia is the Ural Mountains?

    Europe is generally an artificial entity, tore a piece from a single continent and boast, we are Europeans.
    And about 500 years ago, the border of Europe generally passed along the Don.
    1. kalibr
      1 June 2020 17: 15 New
      -1
      Quote: Ua3qhp
      And about 500 years ago, the border of Europe generally passed along the Don.

      ?????????????
      1. Ua3qhp
        Ua3qhp 1 June 2020 17: 44 New
        0

        For example, a piece of an old map.
        It is possible that with the expansion of the Moscow (then still) principality, the border of Europe shifted east.
  • Operator
    Operator 2 June 2020 18: 51 New
    +1
    Quote: AllBiBek
    Klyosov is not even a certified geneticist

    Do you know that Albert Einstein had a diploma in teaching mathematics and physics?

    Anatoly Klesov holds a diploma in chemistry from Moscow State University in 1969, specializing in biochemistry (corresponding candidate and doctoral dissertations, professors, department of Moscow State University, laboratories of the Institute of Biochemistry of the Russian Academy of Sciences and Harvard School, a biochemical company).

    At leisure, you can find out which class of compounds the carrier of gene and genealogical information called DNA belongs to.
  • Seal
    Seal 4 June 2020 17: 43 New
    +1
    In principle, there can be no "first cities" on the islands. To get to the island you need to have something to sail on. This means that to get to the island you need to be able to build ships. Shipyards are needed to build ships. And the shipyard is a large number of workers. That must live somewhere. With families.
  • Molot1979
    Molot1979 1 July 2020 16: 58 New
    0
    Something strange. Why is the first city - and on the island? Somehow it is not logical. However, perhaps similar cities should be sought under water? The level of the Mediterranean Sea has risen orderly over these millennia. Not for nothing that the Greeks all remembered the Deucalion flood ...