Military Review

Twice as expensive as the Mistral. Two universal landing ships for the Russian Navy

242

Ka-52K attack helicopter


On May 22, TASS announced the conclusion of a contract between the Russian Ministry of Defense and the Zaliv shipyard (Kerch) for the construction of two UDCs for the Russian Navy in the amount of approximately 100 billion rubles. For domestic fleet universal landing ships - a new project. In the USSR, and then in Russia, ships of this class were not built. At the same time, there was experience in creating large helicopter carriers in the Soviet Union, but these were anti-submarine cruisers, the main task of which was the fight against enemy submarines.

New Russian UDC will cost the fleet twice as much as Mistral


According to TASS, the Russian Ministry of Defense signed a contract with the Zaliv shipyard in Kerch for the construction of the first two universal landing ships (UDC) for the Russian fleet. The total cost of the contract is estimated at about 100 billion rubles, sources in the Russian defense industry told reporters about this. According to the interlocutors of the agency, the laying of the ships should take place in the coming weeks. Consequently, with a high degree of probability we can say that this will happen in the summer of 2020.

Back in 2019, the Russian press discussed information that the head UDC should be transferred to the fleet in 2025, and both ships should be ready before 2027. At the same time, the official dates for the laying and delivery of ships are not known. At the same time, the TASS report itself says that the agency does not have official confirmation of information about the contract, and the press service of the Zaliv shipbuilding company was told reporters that they are ready to build landing helicopter carriers for the Russian fleet, but noted that they do not have information about the deal.


The universal landing ship of the Mistral type, which was to become part of the Russian Navy

There is not so much information about the new UDC, the construction plans of which are regularly discussed since the order in France of two Mistral ships. But now we can say that two universal landing ships will cost the Russian budget more than their French counterparts.

A contract signed in June 2011 with France for the construction of the Mistral universal landing helicopter carrier ship was estimated at 1-1,2 billion euros. At the same time, it is known for certain that for breaking the contract France returned 949 million 754 thousand euros to Russia, as well as Russian equipment installed on the ships. In any case, at the time of the conclusion of the contract in 2011, the purchase of Mistral cost the Russian budget approximately 41-49 billion rubles at the then exchange rate (the average exchange rate for 2011 was 40,9 rubles per euro).

Two new UDCs of Russian construction will cost taxpayers already 100 billion rubles, that is, at least twice as much. At the same time, the ruble, of course, seriously depreciated against the euro and the dollar after 2014, but the cost of the ships still increased markedly. At the current rate, this is already 1,317 billion euros (the average rate for 2020 is 75,9 rubles per euro). At the same time, experts note that the externally presented ships resemble the Mistral, although they have grown slightly in size. In any case, it is impossible to compare projects face-to-face at this stage, since the new Russian UDCs are likely to be larger than the French ones, plus it is not known what equipment and weapons will be installed on board the ships. However, the price is still alarming. Especially considering the fact that the ships are planned to be built not in France, but in Russia. With the involvement of workers with Russian, not French salaries, and with the use of Russian materials and components, which, it would seem, do not need to be purchased for currency.

What is known about the project of the new UDC


Little is known about the draft of the new UDC. Earlier in the press, the draft of the Russian UDC “Priboy”, developed by specialists of the Nevsky Design Bureau, was widely discussed, but now we are talking about another project. According to the bmpd specialized military blog, which is published under the auspices of the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies, this is about project 23900, which was developed by employees of the Zelenodolsk Design Bureau, which is part of the Ak-Bars shipbuilding corporation.

The first materials and images of the UDC of project 23900 appeared in early January 2020, after the Zvezda TV channel released news the plot of Putin's visit to Sevastopol. Here, on January 9, the Russian president visited an exposition dedicated to the development prospects of the Russian Navy. The exposition was deployed in the building of the Black Sea Higher Naval Order of the Red Star of the Nakhimov School. Within the framework of the exhibition in Sevastopol, the enterprises of the military-industrial complex of Russia presented their promising developments, among which warships occupied a special place.


Shot from the TV channel "Star"

According to experts, the presented images of the UDC of project 23900 allow us to talk about the significant external similarity of this project with the French Mistrals. The bmpd blog explicitly called the project “largely a clone” of the French UDC. The ships are really very similar in appearance and, apparently, have a similar architecture and layout of the internal landing decks. In this case, the Russian version came out wider than its French counterpart, which was reflected in the displacement and increased capacity of the ship.

Certain questions are caused by the choice of a design company. The development and construction of UDC in Russia and the USSR have never been involved. But the real experience in creating large warships, the same heavy aircraft-carrying cruisers of Project 1143, was with the Nevsky Design Bureau. However, it was not they or another Petersburg company, the Krylov State Scientific Center, who were responsible for the development of the UDC, but the Zelenodolsk Design Bureau. The company, of course, is successful, but has won a place under the sun with projects of small missile ships: Buyanov and Cheetahs. Previously, the company did not design warships larger than the Cheetahs, the displacement of which is less than 2000 tons.

It is obvious that Russia, to some extent, became the owner of the technology and design documentation on Mistral, which makes it possible to design ships even with the help of specialists from the corporation, which used to supply numerous patrol and small missile ships for export and for domestic use with good quality . Specialists also include advanced technologies mastered here in the design bureau from Zelenodolsk. It was the enterprise from Tatarstan that was the first in the industry to introduce a software and hardware complex of virtual prototyping. Thanks to this complex, designers and customers even before the start of construction can walk through the interior of the future warship in 3D glasses, evaluating how the project will look like already at the construction and commissioning stage.

Technical characteristics of the new UDC


The most interesting is the technical characteristics of the new UDC. The longest ship is 204 meters wide and 38 meters wide. Thus, the Russian version is slightly longer than the “Frenchman”, but noticeably wider - by 6 meters. It is no coincidence that the ship has a large total displacement, which is estimated at about 25 thousand tons; for Mistral, the total displacement was 21 tons. The draft of the ship will be approximately 300 meters, which is more than a meter higher than the similar parameter of the "French", who never reached the Russian coast.


Shipyard "Bay", photo: nowcrimea.ru

The main tasks of the new Russian UDC will be:
- transportation of troops operating in coastal directions;
- Reception, transportation by sea and the landing of troops and troops;
- fire damage to enemy airborne defense facilities.

The last point, which is on the footage shown by the Zvezda TV channel, may indicate that offensive weapons will be deployed on board the UDC, and not just sea-based attack helicopters. It is reported that universal landing ships of the new Russian project will be able to take on board up to 1000 people, up to 75 units of various military equipment and 6 landing and landing equipment.

It is worth noting that the landing capabilities of the "Mistral" were more modest. For example, a ship could take on board no more than 900 paratroopers (when switching to a short range) and up to 4 amphibious landing craft placed in a special docking chamber. The increase in the width of the ship positively affected the size of the internal and flight decks. So experts evaluated the capabilities of Mistral at 60 transported military vehicles, and the maximum size of the air group on board was estimated at 16 helicopters. At the new Russian UDC, the number of helicopters is likely to be increased to 20 units.

The traditional question that arose during the purchase of the Mistral and in the discussion of the projects of Russian ships of a similar class: why do the Russian fleet have such ships? There are at least two answers to it.

Firstly, this is the appearance of the possibility of over-the-air landing by the fleet when the UDC is located at a very great distance from the coast, beyond the reach of most weapons, and troops are brought ashore by helicopters and amphibious assault forces. There is no need to land equipment and landing directly on the shore, as Soviet and Russian landing ships do. The second important point is the possibility of projecting forces in various theaters of operations, as well as the organization of a supply chain in the region. The military operations in Syria have clearly demonstrated how important it is to solve these problems.
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  1. g1v2
    g1v2 26 May 2020 18: 12 New
    36
    The project is completely new, PM is unlikely to be 100 yards. The amount will definitely grow.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 26 May 2020 18: 37 New
      27
      Quote: g1v2
      The amount will definitely grow.

      But fashionable.
      All UDC, even the Egyptians. And we will also ...

      Damn, it's like buying a cool and expensive car audio system. This car is not having.
      1. military_cat
        military_cat 26 May 2020 20: 16 New
        -8
        We can afford it!
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 26 May 2020 20: 17 New
          -1
          Quote: military_cat
          We can afford it!

          Exactly laughing
        2. iouris
          iouris 27 May 2020 01: 22 New
          -5
          Quote: military_cat
          We can afford it!

          But is it necessary? And if necessary, we will not stand for the price!
          1. Fan-fan
            Fan-fan 27 May 2020 17: 02 New
            +3
            And then, when Mistral was not given to us, half of the comments here were that we did not need them. Now I will ask these "smart guys" that they are not needed? It turns out that they are so needed that they are ready to pay 2 times more for them.
            But Putin then took pity on the French and refused the "forfeit" - a fine for non-fulfillment of the contract. Well, did Putin do the right thing then? He forgave the French money, but he does not forgive the people of Russia.
            1. Alex777
              Alex777 27 May 2020 17: 54 New
              +5
              Two new UDCs of Russian construction will cost taxpayers already 100 billion rubles, that is, at least twice as much. At the same time, the ruble, of course, seriously depreciated against the euro and the dollar after 2014, but the cost of the ships still increased markedly. At the current rate, this is already 1,317 billion euros (the average rate for 2020 is 75,9 rubles per euro).

              1) It is not clear what does the average rate for 2020 have to do with it? Apparently because the exchange rate on the date of the contract is destroying all constructions about "much more expensive"?
              2) And the cost of design improvements for ships that are (at least) wider by 6m included in the price?
              3) The fact that the Mistrals were modified for us for cold climate conditions and the cost of installing / removing one (made from us) heated deck (which we will definitely have in our project again), at the price that the French somehow returned ? And there a lot of things were filmed (I suspect that for our money) before being sold to Egypt. Even the inscriptions on all the ships were in Russian.
              4) And how much did the author estimate the Shells, who would be 99,9% on ships?
              There are many more questions. And everything would be worth answering before comparing prices and making inputs that our construction is more expensive. hi
              1. Alexander Mironovsky
                Alexander Mironovsky 27 May 2020 18: 31 New
                +3
                I recall an old Russian tradition., For example, an estimate of the Olympics or the Crimean bridge, which were an order of magnitude different from the original ..
                1. bayard
                  bayard 28 May 2020 02: 44 New
                  0
                  Quote: Alexander Mironovsky
                  I recall an old Russian tradition., For example, an estimate of the Olympics or the Crimean bridge, which were an order of magnitude different from the original ..

                  Well, the Crimean bridge, nevertheless, both in time and in budget, was probably the exception. But the Olympics, the Championship, the Vostochny Cosmodrome, the Moscow budget for borders and much more - yes. yes
                  TRADITION.
                  1. Alex777
                    Alex777 28 May 2020 09: 46 New
                    +4
                    Nevertheless, there are changes for the better. wink
                    Once in my life (about 10 years ago) I called the radio station live. It was a good Moscow one. A few years since she was gone.
                    I called because a question was asked: what leaders do Russia need?
                    My answer was simple - those whose children associate their fate with our country.
                    The host choked and I was removed from the air. smile
                    And now the topic of the nationally oriented elite is slowly beginning to be discussed. After some time, it will begin to be realized. Then we will heal. bully
            2. Alf
              Alf 27 May 2020 18: 14 New
              +1
              Quote: Fan-Fan
              He forgave the French money, but he doesn’t forgive the people of Russia.

            3. bk316
              bk316 29 May 2020 16: 42 New
              -1
              He forgave the French money, but he doesn’t forgive the people of Russia.

              Think before you write.
              For the French money would have left the Russian Federation (and I agree in vain would have gone) and then who should "forgive" something?
              Taken from the budget, that is, in fact, mainly from the oil industry and given to steelmakers shipbuilders and helicopter builders.
              WAS BETTER THEM TO BE KEEPED IN US BONDS?
              You yourself whined that the money was dead weight and there were no large tonnages. So the tonnage is big and the money is thrown into the industry. AND EVEN BY THE FACT, TAKEN OUT OF SO LIKE ROSNEFT.

              Perhaps it would be better to lay a couple of cruisers in large vessels, but no one will be able to make them. And the same icebreakers are building normally. They will make UDC and they will make a cruiser. And there you can start thinking about Avik,
              1. Alex777
                Alex777 29 May 2020 21: 34 New
                +1
                Perhaps it would be better to lay a couple of cruisers in large vessels, but no one will be able to make them. And the same icebreakers are building normally. They will make UDC and they will make a cruiser. And there you can start thinking about Avik,

                I agree with everything except this paragraph.
                UDC was needed for a long time. Even when the French ordered them.
                What they will do when they are completed is also understandable.
                Why do we need a cruiser now? Misunderstandings even went with Peter.
                The INF Treaty was gone, and the general situation, of course, has changed.
                IMHO, it is necessary 22350M correct and in quantity to do.
                Avik is a cherry on a cake. It's a bit early, though hunting. Let's wait ... hi
      2. bayard
        bayard 27 May 2020 04: 12 New
        +1
        Quote: Spade

        Damn, it's like buying a cool and expensive car audio system. This car is not having.

        Are you saying that Russia does not have a fleet?
        But by 2027 - the time of the delivery of the head UDC, the fleet will already have the entire line of frigates 22350 laid down, possibly even expanded due to the laying of additional 4 frigates for the Black Sea Fleet. "Nakhimov" will already be in the ranks, and possibly the capitalized "Peter" too, all "Atlantes" will also remain in the ranks, as well as the upgraded BOD / frigates 1155. Corvettes will be added. Submarine and DPL are the same.
        So I do not think that by 2027 the picture will be as bleak as it is now.
        And these ships are needed. The same "Syrian Express" in the presence of unreceived "Mistrals" would look completely different. For maneuvering forces on the same Kuril Islands, in a threatened period ... To provide a promising naval base in Venezuela (they threatened to open by 2027) ... But you never know ... The tool stock is not a burden for the master.
        1. Alexander Mironovsky
          Alexander Mironovsky 27 May 2020 18: 32 New
          +5
          And how much will you have to write off by the 27th?
          1. bayard
            bayard 28 May 2020 02: 34 New
            +3
            First rankings will not be written off - all cruisers and BODs will be upgraded or repaired and supported. The remaining destroyers of the "Sarych" type will be written off, but even now they are of little use in the non-readiness of the power plant. We can assume that they are no longer there.
            Many IPC and Burevestniki will write off.
            Well, different small fry.
            The most pressing issue is the BMZ anti-submarine forces. But if a decision is made on the further construction of anti-submarine specialization corvettes, the severity of the issue will decrease.
            But the main strike forces during this period will not decrease, but rather increase. And they will grow seriously. Including quality.
            Unless, of course, sabotage and sabotage prevail over common sense and control authorities.
            And on THIS account no guarantees yet ... no. hi
      3. Hog
        Hog 29 May 2020 13: 26 New
        0
        Our admirals are also people, like all friends have a new toy, but they don’t.
      4. Archon
        Archon 4 June 2020 17: 43 New
        0
        At least you can integrate a car system into a box and enjoy good sound. And UDC, also in the amount of 2 pieces, is a thing of dubious use. In most cases, Russia is seeking more diplomacy than an army.
    2. Alekseev
      Alekseev 26 May 2020 18: 50 New
      27
      Quote: g1v2
      The project is completely new, including

      That's right.
      To rant about the high cost, the more so, only for the sake of a catchy headline, is incorrect.
      The author himself admitted that it was not twice, but 10 percent. And given the differences in design, armament, expl. expenses that we don’t know may be cheaper.
      The main difference between the contract for the purchase of Mistral in France and the construction of UDC in Kerch is well expressed by the old Soviet joke.
      Brezhnev was informed that they steal a lot in the USSR.
      So what, this is nonsense, says Leonid Ilyich, stolen anyway remains in the country, to the benefit of the peoples.
      1. Deck
        Deck 26 May 2020 19: 36 New
        18
        still stolen inside the country remains


        But this is very unlikely!
        1. bayard
          bayard 27 May 2020 04: 18 New
          +5
          Quote: Deck
          still stolen inside the country remains


          But this is very unlikely!

          This phrase was true for the Soviet Union, now more complicated.
          Nevertheless, this program is not only the acquisition of new ships for the fleet, but also an investment in the domestic high-tech industry of 100 billion rubles. From this, for sure, everyone will be better. Including Crimeans and residents of Kerch.
          1. Alex777
            Alex777 27 May 2020 17: 59 New
            +5
            Everyone will be better off.
            And shipbuilders, and subcontractors, and helicopter builders, and our "partners". wink
            1. bayard
              bayard 27 May 2020 23: 15 New
              +2
              But Ukraine seems bad ... there are so many minusers. smile
              1. Alex777
                Alex777 28 May 2020 14: 16 New
                +1
                They go straight to the "partners". bully
      2. svp67
        svp67 26 May 2020 20: 14 New
        15
        hi
        Quote: Alekseev
        That's right.

        More than ... Not knowing the characteristics of what they are going to build in Kerch, how can their price be compared?
        Further, somehow the author misses that we did not pay for all the Mistrals' hulls, but roughly speaking for 2/3 of each hull, since the stern parts were produced by us and only then were transported to the assembly site ... so that if not this, then the price of "Mistrals" would be higher in foreign currency
        1. Peter is not the first
          Peter is not the first 26 May 2020 20: 33 New
          10
          that offensive weapons will be deployed on board the UDC, and not just sea-based attack helicopters.

          This is one of the answers why the price of Russian UDC is higher than that of Mistral.
          Plus, as you wrote, the characteristics could have grown. Of which, the most noticeable is the increase in displacement.
          And money, not only for feed, but for the rest will remain initially in Russia.
          Only the propulsion system is in question, I hope that it will be ours, and not, some, Finnish. I would like this money to go to Russia.
          1. bayard
            bayard 27 May 2020 04: 00 New
            +3
            Quote: Peter is not the first
            Only the propulsion system is in question, I hope that it will be ours, and not, some, Finnish. I would like this money to go to Russia.

            If the steering columns will be used as a propulsion device (and they have already been mastered by our industry), and therefore electric movement will be realized, then the on-board power station can be completely implemented on domestic diesels - the same Kolomensky ones.
            And the bookmark will be visible on the eve of the newly proclaimed / appointed Victory Parade, as it was assembled before - on the eve of May 9.
            1. Alex777
              Alex777 27 May 2020 18: 01 New
              +5
              The main thing is to start building.
              And the celebration can be held later. hi
        2. nks
          nks 26 May 2020 22: 10 New
          +3
          Quote: svp67
          we did not pay for all Mistral buildings, but roughly speaking for 2/3 of each building

          No, they paid for the whole ship. Feed units were subcontracted and the French paid for them from their own. In general, we’ll see, but the fact that ships of a similar VI and destination in the end cost much more, according to these data, is funny, but not to say that it is surprising :(
          1. forpost
            forpost 28 May 2020 14: 16 New
            0
            The last point, which is on the frames shown by the Zvezda TV channel, may indicate that offensive weapons will be placed on board the UDC
        3. rudolff
          rudolff 26 May 2020 22: 16 New
          +7
          The contract provided for the payment of the full cost of the ships. The Baltic Plant acted as a subcontractor and the money for the feed was transferred to him by the French, not us.
      3. ccsr
        ccsr 26 May 2020 20: 40 New
        +6
        Quote: Alekseev
        To rant about the high cost, the more so, only for the sake of a catchy headline, is incorrect.

        I completely agree with you - the author does not even know the set of weapons and various systems of the new ship, but already states that it is expensive. Given inflation, and the fact that some new weapons systems will arise, I do not rule out that by 2025-2027 it will be necessary to adjust the cost of products, which even in Soviet times was not excluded. So I see no reason to shed tears for the fact that the cost of ships will increase, it is quite natural when creating such weapons, if only because of inflationary processes.
        Quote: Alekseev
        So what, this is nonsense, says Leonid Ilyich, all the same, what was stolen inside the country remains, is for the benefit of the peoples.

        Leonid Ilyich was right in fact - after all, it is not for nothing that his time is remembered with nostalgia, all who lived with him in the USSR.
    3. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 26 May 2020 19: 42 New
      +4
      Quote: g1v2
      The project is completely new, PM is unlikely to be 100 yards. The amount will definitely grow.

      This is unambiguous, the project is new, the shipyard after Ukraine is not in very good condition, there is a big shortage of engineering staff and highly skilled workers, and young people need to be prepared (the same picture at DCK). So the construction time and price will increase by 30 percent, at least.
      1. Deck
        Deck 28 May 2020 06: 24 New
        0
        This is unambiguous, the project is new, the shipyard after Ukraine is not in very good condition, a large shortage of engineering staff and highly skilled workers


        In our country now, any shipyard is like "after Ukraine". The mooring walls of the "Zaliv" are filled with ships and vessels that the plant cannot complete. UDC buildings will be assembled (a bare body is a dream of any shipyard in the country), but there will be big problems with the installation of equipment, systems, electrics, RNS, and furnishing.
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 28 May 2020 09: 31 New
          -2
          Quote: Deck
          but with the installation of equipment, systems, electrics, RNS, building up there will be big problems.

          This is exactly the biggest problem. Build a building, there is no problem.
    4. yehat2
      yehat2 27 May 2020 15: 57 New
      +1
      the question is not the cost of construction, where will the money go
      if it will be as usual - billions for intermediary services, estimates by weight of gold,
      then this is shitty. If the estimate includes large real investments in infrastructure and supplier support, then this is already better.
  2. Bashkirkhan
    Bashkirkhan 26 May 2020 18: 12 New
    10
    Civilian technology Mistrals were made. As much has been written and said, the survivability of such a ship would be low. In addition, self-defense systems also raised questions. It is not always correct to compare prices for old import contracts with new Russian contracts. There is inflation, how many years have passed + different equipment composition and pricing.
    1. figwam
      figwam 26 May 2020 18: 52 New
      -7
      Highways for the northern latitudes are not suitable.
      1. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 26 May 2020 19: 29 New
        -2
        We have few problems in the Mediterranean?
        1. figwam
          figwam 26 May 2020 19: 41 New
          0
          Quote: Cyril G ...
          We have few problems in the Mediterranean?

          Our UDC will be able to operate in the Okhotsk, Barents, and Mediterranean.
          1. really
            really 26 May 2020 20: 27 New
            +1
            Murmansk, Arkhangelsk and Dikson with Norilsk their goal?
        2. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 26 May 2020 19: 43 New
          -2
          Quote: Cyril G ...
          We have few problems in the Mediterranean?

          First of all, its borders, and then Middle-earth.
          1. Ivan Ivanov_6
            Ivan Ivanov_6 26 May 2020 20: 07 New
            +4
            It would be the sea, and you can always think of problems
            1. Revolver
              Revolver 26 May 2020 22: 54 New
              17
              Quote: Ivan Ivanov_6
              It would be the sea, and you can always think of problems

              The knight returned from the campaign and reports to the king:
              - Your Majesty, I gloriously patted your enemies in the west!
              - Excuse me, knight, I have never had enemies in the west!
              - Now it is.
              lol
      2. Tavrik
        Tavrik 26 May 2020 22: 50 New
        0
        Why? During the war, even with escort aircraft carriers flew.
  3. Civil
    Civil 26 May 2020 18: 12 New
    13
    Suffering from UDC, part 18 of the Marlezon ballet.
    1. antivirus
      antivirus 26 May 2020 18: 48 New
      -17
      again and again everything is bad .. and gone ... the spoons are small and do not shine
      WHEN THE SAME 100 000 T WILL YOU SHOW OUT OF THE SOFA ??
      rather, this quiet-Shoigu would be removed from the post of the Ministry of Defense and appointed who should be sofa strategists !!!
    2. Alexander Mironovsky
      Alexander Mironovsky 27 May 2020 18: 37 New
      -1
      Most likely the next destroyer "Leader" - by the way, how was it that the minatom did not hurry up with the initiative of the atomic UDC ..
  4. Doctor
    Doctor 26 May 2020 18: 14 New
    +1
    UDC is located at a very great distance from the coast, beyond the reach of most weapons

    This requires dominance at sea.
    In the meantime, this is better. It will fit an order of magnitude more.

    1. IC
      IC 26 May 2020 19: 28 New
      +1
      The main thing is air supremacy. And only landing in local wars against countries that do not have a serious Navy and Air Force.
      1. Ivan Ivanov_6
        Ivan Ivanov_6 26 May 2020 20: 09 New
        -1
        Mean for dill to get off? and if they are abandoned by Neptunes?
        1. Alexander Mironovsky
          Alexander Mironovsky 27 May 2020 18: 39 New
          -1
          You freak out. Ukraine ?.
      2. Doctor
        Doctor 26 May 2020 22: 20 New
        +1
        The main thing is air supremacy. And so only landing in local wars against countries that do not have a serious Navy and Air Force ..

        Of course. The UDC concept itself was born during the Vietnam War, when the landing had to be done beyond the range of the coastal artillery. With complete dominance in the air and at sea.
        And if not a gun but a ball? Or (uhosh!) Bastion? What is rowing 200-500 km? And what if the score is 4? Or a small Varshavyanka?
        Again mindlessly ape. To cover this UDC on a real landing off the coast of others, you must first give birth to an aircraft carrier.
        1. bayard
          bayard 27 May 2020 04: 40 New
          +2
          Quote: Arzt
          Again mindlessly ape. To cover this UDC on a real landing off the coast of others, you must first give birth to an aircraft carrier.

          I do not think that in the near future our Navy and its marines will have to storm the coast of the United States or Britain. And in a banal landing operation, the air defense and anti-aircraft defense functions will be taken over by escort ships. Without them, anyway, such a vessel will not be released into the sea. And to cover his troops from the air, he has his own air group on board.
          And "Kuznetsov" will be repaired.
          I hope so. what
          1. Doctor
            Doctor 27 May 2020 11: 31 New
            -1
            And in a banal landing operation, the air defense and anti-aircraft defense functions will be taken over by escort ships.

            Syria has shown that it is necessary to banally transfer a lot of cargo by sea.

            On civilian ships, the crew must not have weapons.
            That is, the ship must be under the flag of St. Andrew, with appropriate restrictions.

            The question is what kind of ship it should be.
            Ro-RO in comparison with UDC is much more capacious. Paint in gray, immerse at least the brigade and go. With an escort of course.

            And you don’t need to throw the load with firewood, as with the Arctic Sea, and if someone on a rubber boat wants to check the load - welcome! laughing
            1. bayard
              bayard 27 May 2020 14: 41 New
              +1
              Quote: Arzt
              you need to banally transfer a lot of cargo by sea.

              It's elementary - we requisition everything that fits and floats for mobilization: lighter carriers, sea ferries, bulk carriers, "Ural" (lighter carrier) atomic, we remove from the NSR, load equipment, ammo equipment and everything needed, raise the St. Andrew's flag, put machine guns on the sides .. Marines and other troops - on cruise ships, so that with comfort and fun ... And go. yes
              With an escort, of course. smile
              You can, of course, paint some stripe in the "military" style on the board or pipe, if you don't mind the paint ...
              I suggested purchasing a pair of such mandolin-car transporters for Dobroflot and using it for commercial purposes.
              But if TOMORROW WAR is mobilization, and let's go tank tanks.
              It is better to buy / order from Koreans or Chinese - it will be faster, better and cheaper than straining your OSK. For the Far Eastern "Zvezda" has not yet learned (and she already has orders for 10 - 15 years), and the Kerch "Zaliv" is only coming to life and it will have to make two UDCs by the end of the decade.
              But by the end of the decade, as the above-described convoy dumped, on mobilized ships, and in escort to them "Nakhimov", "Ustinov", "Peter the Great" after repair and modernization, "Kuznetsov" with the entire air group, a flock of frigates, two new UDCs ... fellow bully soldier
              Yeast adversary. angry smile
              And obey. yes

              So win. bully
              And the Polovtsians. yes
              And the Pechenegs. yes
              And coronovirus. negative

              And bonnets will fly into the air. fellow drinks bully yes
              1. Doctor
                Doctor 27 May 2020 15: 13 New
                -1
                It's elementary - requisition for mobilization

                This is when the war. What to do now? When is a hybrid war?
                Arctic Sea - a timber carrier; weapons cannot be carried on board. Hang the St. Andrew flag and paint and transfer to the Navy? Great idea!
                Just not a timber truck, but a heavy truck.
                UDC is inferior to it in carrying capacity due to its properties unnecessary in a real war.
                1. bayard
                  bayard 27 May 2020 16: 30 New
                  0
                  So I do not mind. request
                  To buy on a state loan and use for commercial purposes. And as soon as the war - mobilization, the Andreev flag and the status of military transport. For all mobilized vessels.
                  But the contract for UDC has already been signed and no one will consider alternatives. Moreover, the UDC is a combat (!) Ship, with full-time armament and an air group of combat (and landing) helicopters. Such ships are needed and will be in service.
                  And such, as in the article, will be mobilized in case of war, or hired to perform occasional transport of large consignments of military cargo.
                  Everything is simple and does not exclude, but complements one another.
                  UDC delivers an airborne landing to a theater of operations, ensures its landing on any unequipped shore, and provides for its air cover by combat helicopter forces.
                  And military transport (no matter what it looks like) ensures the delivery of military cargo, equipment and aircraft to a previously captured and safe port.
                  But in another way. request
              2. Zhenya Khazarsky
                Zhenya Khazarsky 28 May 2020 11: 26 New
                +2
                Good day!
                A small clarification, the nuclear-powered lighter carrier - "Sevmorput".
                New "Arctic", "Siberia", "Ural", "Yakutia" - nuclear-powered icebreakers.
                1. bayard
                  bayard 28 May 2020 11: 39 New
                  0
                  Quote: Zhenya Khazarsky
                  A small clarification, the nuclear-powered lighter carrier - "Sevmorput".

                  Perhaps I made a mistake, or renamed it, I did not specify in the reference book. I meant the one that was built on the "Zaliv". hi
            2. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... 27 May 2020 21: 20 New
              +1
              That is, the ship must be under the flag of St. Andrew, with appropriate restrictions.

              It’s true, by the way, what did they do after the rake dance, bought transport ships, after killing the remaining BDK resource in the trash ..


              The naval flag of the auxiliary fleet is quite visible to itself.
              Ro-RO in comparison with UDC is much more capacious. Paint in gray, immerse at least the brigade and go. With an escort of course.

              In the current period, I do not see any reason at all as long as the BDK bothers with unloading ashore, for there are no banal examples of such landings in our fleet. But the transportation of goods as you like
          2. Alf
            Alf 27 May 2020 18: 19 New
            0
            Quote: bayard
            And "Kuznetsov" will be repaired.

            Air group-26 aircraft. Not funny. Level escort, but not shock AB.
            1. bayard
              bayard 28 May 2020 00: 46 New
              +1
              So I’m right about the escort and I’m talking.
              And for other needs will build "Storm". smile
              Or "Manatee". yes
              Or they won’t build anything at all, but there will be many plans, presentations and layouts. bully
              But "Kuznetsov" is sacred. wink
              Must be repaired. soldier
              1. Alf
                Alf 28 May 2020 18: 46 New
                0
                Quote: bayard
                Or they won’t build anything at all, but there will be many plans, presentations and layouts.

                As I vanga, this is the most likely option, unfortunately.
        2. Alexander Mironovsky
          Alexander Mironovsky 27 May 2020 18: 42 New
          0
          UDC is both F-35 and Apache, Global Hawk, Arly Burke nearby and some kind of Los Angeles, or maybe three Virginia nearby, with the possibility of quick maneuver ..
    2. bayard
      bayard 27 May 2020 04: 32 New
      0
      Quote: Arzt
      This requires dominance at sea.
      In the meantime, this is better. It will fit an order of magnitude more.

      THIS is neither better nor worse. THIS is another. It can be successfully used as a military transport for mobilization, or for one-time contracts with the Defense Ministry. And IT (ship) does not have a flight deck.
      We discussed car carriers for another branch, but I repeat: it would not hurt to acquire a couple of such vessels, say, Dobroflot and use it for commercial purposes, from time to time to attract for military transport operations.
      And mobilization.
      hi
  5. K-612-O
    K-612-O 26 May 2020 18: 16 New
    0
    No, but our workers do not need to pay "French" wages? And the second 50 yards for 25 thousand. tons is it a lot?
    Especially if at the same time the ships receive shock weapons, unlike the Mistral, and I do not exclude the Shell
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 26 May 2020 18: 39 New
      +6
      Quote: K-612-O
      Especially if at the same time the ships receive shock weapons

      The right thing.
      The other day I’ll adapt it to a meat grinder, open the bottles.
      Suddenly I have to ... laughing
    2. antivirus
      antivirus 26 May 2020 18: 50 New
      -8
      I agree with you - I’m not sorry for you and even overpay
    3. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 26 May 2020 19: 49 New
      0
      Quote: K-612-O
      Especially if at the same time the ships receive shock weapons, unlike the Mistral, and I do not exclude the Shell

      As you do not make 70 years of the 20th century from a telecomine, there will still be a telecomine. And the TV is weak, and no tape recorder, the turntable is weak, and the receiver only takes two stations. Each thing and device must have its own purpose.
    4. bayard
      bayard 27 May 2020 04: 45 New
      0
      Quote: K-612-O
      and I don’t exclude the Shell

      Why not "Zaslon-Redoubt", as in 20385? At the same time, all-aspect and compactness of BC placement will be ensured.
    5. Alexander Mironovsky
      Alexander Mironovsky 27 May 2020 18: 44 New
      0
      What is the point of re-arranging and re-complicating a ship - shock tasks should be carried out by an escort
  6. Alf
    Alf 26 May 2020 18: 19 New
    +1
    and with the use of Russian materials and components, which, it would seem, do not need to be purchased for currency.

    So they can, but what "can" there, most likely will be more expensive than foreign ones.
    1. K-612-O
      K-612-O 26 May 2020 18: 22 New
      -1
      And what is wrong that our workers and engineers will earn? Or should the proletarians of all countries except ours pay?
      In the interests of the world revolution essno.
      1. Alf
        Alf 26 May 2020 18: 24 New
        16
        Quote: K-612-O
        And what is wrong that our workers and engineers will earn?

        Do you think that our workers will be paid like the French?
        1. KCA
          KCA 26 May 2020 18: 36 New
          -3
          Will we also take taxes from the French? Approximately half the salary per employee, not 13%
          1. Podvodnik
            Podvodnik 26 May 2020 19: 21 New
            15
            Will we also take taxes from the French? Approximately half the salary per employee, not 13%


            You see, you are not aware of how taxes are taken from "us": half of the salary, like the French, or not?

            I’ll try to explain with a simple example. If we, like the French, paid all taxes independently, the situation would look like this:

            Suppose you have a salary of 130200 rubles per month (one hundred thirty thousand two hundred rubles). Under our law, you will be required to pay:
            -30200 rubles (thirty thousand two hundred rubles) of various insurance contributions: pension contributions (22%), compulsory medical insurance fund (5,1%), temporary disability fund (2,9%), accident protection fund for production (0,2%). We check, add up, we get 30,2% of the total.
            Then we subtract 100% of the income tax from the remaining 13 tyrs and you get exactly 87000 rubles (eighty seven thousand) on hand.

            And now we put two amounts side by side

            130200 rubles was, 87000 rubles became, 43200 were given in taxes.

            Once again, for "suggestion" I repeat:
            received in their hands 87000 (eighty-seven thousand rubles)
            gave away 43200 taxes (forty-three thousand two hundred rubles)

            And what is the impression now of what "they take from us" and how much? And how is it in "France"?

            not 13%

            So don't tell my horseshoes.
            1. Deck
              Deck 26 May 2020 19: 33 New
              +8
              About 20% forgot
              1. Podvodnik
                Podvodnik 26 May 2020 19: 38 New
                16
                About 20% forgot


                And this, like excise taxes on gasoline, we pay in stores. So, I repeat once again, all the tales from the "zomboyaschik" about the world's lowest taxes are fairy tales. Everything is relative.
                1. Lannan Shi
                  Lannan Shi 26 May 2020 20: 29 New
                  +8
                  Quote: Podvodnik
                  So, I repeat once again, all the tales from the "zomboyaschik" about the world's lowest taxes are fairy tales.

                  Well, do not tell ... Now, if you get not 130 thousand, but 130 million, then contributions to the funds can not be considered. They with sn over 800 thousand, or 900, I do not remember exactly, are not taken. And dividends are not taken in principle. And if you take the received also abroad, to a mansion in London, then do not pay anything except 13%. So ... It's not really a fairy tale. It's just that this fairy tale is not for everyone.
                  1. Alf
                    Alf 26 May 2020 21: 23 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Lannan Shi
                    It's just that this fairy tale is not for everyone.

                    good
                    As one "tovarisch" said, if a differentiated scale of taxation is introduced, then the rich will still find a way out how not to pay.
                2. K-612-O
                  K-612-O 26 May 2020 21: 02 New
                  -9
                  Then pay 1,2-1,7 euros for gasoline and do not worry, there are no excise taxes, ep
                  1. Deck
                    Deck 27 May 2020 07: 25 New
                    +4
                    There is no vehicle tax laughing You are all mixed up. And we have both.
                3. Vladimir1155
                  Vladimir1155 26 May 2020 21: 04 New
                  0
                  official taxes in the Russian Federation 115 percent, that is, if you pay them, then immediately close
            2. KCA
              KCA 26 May 2020 19: 54 New
              -9
              We seem to be talking about the salary that the employee receives, and not about how much the company pays for it, let's tax on profit, on land, on real estate, utility bills, other taxes and, finally, shareholder dividends, we'll add everything to the employee's income and minus social benefits, in Gazprom, if payments to top managers are divided among all the cleaners, they will go home after work to Rublyovka in Lexus, where there are pension contributions
              1. Podvodnik
                Podvodnik 26 May 2020 20: 00 New
                12
                and not how much the company pays for it


                What does "enterprise pays" mean? Does it take money out of thin air? You are comparing square to heavy. The company does not pay this 30,2% to you as a salary, but gives it to taxes instead of you. You have earned this money by your labor. And in France, the worker gets his hands on everything that he earned, and the French enterprise does not pay any taxes for him. Don't you understand the difference?
                1. K-612-O
                  K-612-O 26 May 2020 20: 51 New
                  +4
                  Does not understand
          2. bk0010
            bk0010 26 May 2020 19: 32 New
            +6
            In 13%, only Depardieu still believes. And the rest add property tax, land, transport tax, excise taxes, but most importantly - VAT, contributions to medical funds, social contributions. fear, accumulative and insurance part of pension contributions, plus any crap like OSAGO, YGAISy, Platon, overhaul and more. If you take the minimum, then 13 + 5.1 + 6 + 16 + 2.9 + 20 (VAT) = 63%.
            1. K-612-O
              K-612-O 26 May 2020 20: 50 New
              -6
              Only in enterprises does it pay the company out of its revenue. You personally do not pay anything except income, and even less so at a state enterprise!
              1. Podvodnik
                Podvodnik 26 May 2020 21: 37 New
                +4
                pays the company from its revenue


                The workers in the enterprise create a product that is sold. This is the basis for the company's revenue. It does not come from the air, nor does it come from Mars or Venus. If in France an enterprise pays its taxes, leaves it for development, then the rest is given to the worker as a salary. And the French worker himself pays all his pension and other taxes. At our enterprises, we are not paid the entire salary, and part of the money that our workers have earned is sent to taxes "for us" to our pension and other accounts. You can in fact not indicate 13% in the statement. Then it turns out that in our free country the workers do not pay any taxes at all. And in "France" the workers groan under the yoke of the accursed capitalists. But this is a blatant lie.
              2. Podvodnik
                Podvodnik 26 May 2020 21: 41 New
                +4
                and even more so at a state enterprise!


                The law is the same for any organization. And private, and state, and municipal. At any enterprise, 30,2% of taxes are deducted per employee. And at a state-owned enterprise, these amounts are taken into account when financing. Merchants pay the same interest.
              3. bk0010
                bk0010 26 May 2020 22: 08 New
                +2
                Quote: K-612-O
                You personally do not pay anything except income, and even less so at a state enterprise!
                Yes? Where then come the gray salaries and uncompromising struggle with them?
            2. Okolotochny
              Okolotochny 28 May 2020 06: 15 New
              -4
              You have splashed all taxes - both enterprises, and workers, etc. clap your hands. Do you know that VAT is refunded to enterprises if the transaction was not fictitious? Why didn’t they? Stop flooding off-topic articles.
              1. Deck
                Deck 28 May 2020 21: 46 New
                +1
                Did you know that VAT is refunded to enterprises if the transaction was not fictitious


                And you are aware that VAT is not reimbursed for the salary of employees. However, you don’t get your salary either, but a salary (or cash allowance, how are you?)
          3. alexmach
            alexmach 26 May 2020 20: 47 New
            +2
            In general, the burden of taxes and fees from the wage fund for workers in Russia and France is more or less the same.
            1. Okolotochny
              Okolotochny 28 May 2020 06: 17 New
              -3
              No, not the same. An employee of the Russian Federation pays 13 percent of income, does the owner of the enterprise pay the same amount of his income, I specify, not the enterprise, but its owner? How much do these people pay in France?
              1. alexmach
                alexmach 28 May 2020 08: 40 New
                +1
                An employee of the Russian Federation pays 13 percent of income

                Yes, yes, but didn’t you forget the fee for the pension fund and the social insurance fund? Oh yes, this is not a tax, this is a fee ... but only as a result of the difference, it’s not any.
                As a result, the total amount of deductions is from the employee’s salary received on hand ((1 + 0,22 + 0,051 + 0,029) / (1-0,13) -1) × 100% = 49%.

                In France, I’ll not say so right away. But firstly, these data are googled as easily as in Russia, and secondly, the burden of taxes, fees and compulsory insurance for average wages in European countries, including Russia, is about the same order of magnitude.
          4. Alexander Mironovsky
            Alexander Mironovsky 27 May 2020 18: 46 New
            +1
            We agree with the French version completely ..
        2. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 26 May 2020 19: 30 New
          +3
          The ratio will be approximately the same as Rotenberg and the hard workers behind the Crimean bridge.
        3. K-612-O
          K-612-O 26 May 2020 20: 47 New
          -6
          And why not, I work as an engineer at a defense enterprise and get 100 thousand., I get 120-180 workers, depending on the norm, maybe more than 200, and an annual bonus.
          1. Alf
            Alf 26 May 2020 21: 24 New
            +3
            Quote: K-612-O
            I work at a defense enterprise

            What is it on?
            1. K-612-O
              K-612-O 27 May 2020 05: 30 New
              -1
              In Rosatom, in Moscow. I get the average salary in the enterprise. And we also produce a bunch of civilian products, so we have the money and, accordingly, adequate salaries.
              1. vadimtt
                vadimtt 27 May 2020 09: 36 New
                +3
                Haha, said an employee of the only successful state-owned enterprise, with surprisingly successful management lol
              2. Alexander Mironovsky
                Alexander Mironovsky 27 May 2020 18: 47 New
                +1
                Beloved leader of the uralvagonzavod nervously smokes on the side ..
          2. alexmach
            alexmach 27 May 2020 15: 34 New
            +1
            Interestingly, workers are more engineers? just like in the USSR.
            By the way, the announced figures are not at all far from the French if that, well, only there the engineer would still have an advantage over the "workshop"
  7. Alf
    Alf 26 May 2020 18: 22 New
    +3
    The main tasks of the new Russian UDC will be:
    .
    - fire damage to enemy airborne defense facilities.

    The last paragraph, which is on the frames shown by the Zvezda TV channel, may indicate that offensive weapons will be placed on board the UDC,

    Which one? "Calibers"? Something is hard to believe. Or will they start scaring the foe with a pair of 100 mm?
  8. novel66
    novel66 26 May 2020 18: 25 New
    +4
    and compare with a car truck ???
    1. antivirus
      antivirus 26 May 2020 18: 53 New
      -3
      but with a shark? to compare - there is no ICBM, and the Tatarstan people will not have an underwater mode.
      and the whole project was started from a political scientist - with Nikolaev and Kherson to lure zrobitschane. window dressing that you can work for achressor and live under Bandera
      1. Dart2027
        Dart2027 26 May 2020 19: 29 New
        +1
        Quote: antivirus
        Yes, and the whole project was started from a polites

        Will the source be?
        1. antivirus
          antivirus 26 May 2020 20: 03 New
          -1
          one not smart woman said
          1. Dart2027
            Dart2027 26 May 2020 22: 25 New
            -4
            Quote: antivirus
            not smart

            Noticeably.
            1. antivirus
              antivirus 27 May 2020 07: 42 New
              0
              it is noticeable so far that all Shoigu sea-goers are across the throat
              and yet since the time of Khrushchev (was he the ancestor of this theory?) the theory has won ::::::: the land USSR "Eurasia is our patrimony", we do not need a Turkish coast, we would have to keep our own. If there are tank factories (if necessary, 41g to protect huge spaces of their steppes-swamps) + missiles; if you want to climb into America, in Siberia there is everything for happiness
      2. IC
        IC 26 May 2020 19: 30 New
        -2
        There are almost no serious specialists left there.
    2. Podvodnik
      Podvodnik 26 May 2020 19: 27 New
      -2
      and compare with a car truck ???


      And there is nothing to compare. UDC is sharpened for the corresponding tasks, has the necessary technical means, appropriate design, equipment and systems, a crew to service all the "good". A car carrier is just a "box" designed to maximize profits and not adapted to the tasks set before the UDC.
    3. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 26 May 2020 20: 00 New
      -2
      Quote: novel xnumx
      and compare with a car truck ???

      They will start building a UDC and get a car transporter. They wanted to build gas carriers at Zvezda, but the result was a tanker, and that was done by the assembly method.
      1. K-612-O
        K-612-O 26 May 2020 20: 59 New
        -1
        Excuse me, how else are tankers and gas carriers being built in the world?
  9. Pvi1206
    Pvi1206 26 May 2020 18: 30 New
    -1
    New Russian UDC will cost the fleet twice as much as Mistral

    the money will remain, mainly in Russia, and will not go to the cordon ... I would hope ...
    1. Mikhail m
      Mikhail m 26 May 2020 19: 35 New
      +1
      According to the text: 1,3 lard euro for 2 ships is 2 times more expensive than one for 1 lard, and smaller and with modest armament. An author with arithmetic in frets?
    2. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 26 May 2020 22: 03 New
      +1
      Quote: Pvi1206
      the money will remain, mainly in Russia, and will not go to the cordon ... I would hope ..

      Oh, that vague doubts prevail.
    3. Okolotochny
      Okolotochny 28 May 2020 06: 19 New
      -1
      Does this only bother you in the article?
  10. Sancho_SP
    Sancho_SP 26 May 2020 18: 32 New
    12
    1. Only an eccentric with the letter M compares the prices of 2012 and 2020 in rubles and says "twice as expensive." If not cheaper.
    2. Even if it were actually twice as expensive, a substantial part of the money would remain in the economy, workers' salaries, taxes, and contractors. Thieves do not build villas even in the middle hand, but somewhere near Moscow, which are also jobs.
    1. Alf
      Alf 26 May 2020 18: 36 New
      +4
      Quote: Sancho_SP
      Thieves do not even build villas in Spain, but somewhere near Moscow,

      Why do you think so ? Even every rascal from TV presenters strives somewhere "there".
      Quote: Sancho_SP
      that also jobs.

      For illegal migrants from southern satrapies?
      1. Sancho_SP
        Sancho_SP 26 May 2020 18: 55 New
        +1
        Quote: Alf
        Quote: Sancho_SP
        Thieves do not even build villas in Spain, but somewhere near Moscow,

        Why do you think so ? Even every rascal from TV presenters strives somewhere "there".
        Quote: Sancho_SP
        that also jobs.

        For illegal migrants from southern satrapies?


        Those TV presenters who have enough money "there" - they will be richer than the average official from shipbuilding. On the whole, building around Moscow with towers is going well, briskly. And they are not owned by workers)

        As for migrants, their salary in a construction site is not the main part. Contractor and material supplier pick up more.
        1. Alf
          Alf 26 May 2020 18: 57 New
          +1
          Quote: Sancho_SP
          As for migrants, their salary in a construction site is not the main part. Contractor and material supplier pick up more.

          Yes, no arguing against the facts.
    2. smaug78
      smaug78 26 May 2020 18: 39 New
      -7
      by simple arithmetic operations, you may also not be an eccentric in the letter M ...
    3. antivirus
      antivirus 26 May 2020 18: 54 New
      +1
      You gave out two state secrets in two points, here so no-brainer.
      It’s necessary to prick the Franks - after 2 misrals they could still earn on 3 and 4 -5 orders and the whole banquet broke off
    4. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 26 May 2020 22: 05 New
      -2
      Quote: Sancho_SP
      Thieves do not build villas even in the middle hand, but somewhere near Moscow, which are also jobs.

      Yes, your logic is very interesting.
  11. Potter
    Potter 26 May 2020 18: 34 New
    -8
    Mistral is a barge. Our UDC - warships.
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 26 May 2020 22: 08 New
      +2
      Quote: Potter
      Mistral is a barge. Our UDC - warships.

      And how do you know this, probably the construction drawings showed you?
  12. smaug78
    smaug78 26 May 2020 18: 36 New
    +5
    Serdyukovshchina on the march ... Hurray patriots jump in anticipation of high-profile victorious articles in the press ...
    1. Podvodnik
      Podvodnik 26 May 2020 19: 33 New
      +8
      Serdyukovshchina on the march


      You are in vain to bring down all the "bumps" on Serdyukov. Whatever task was assigned to him, this he completed. Do you really think that he is "all by himself"? This is a bird of the wrong flight. What he was told, he did.
      1. smaug78
        smaug78 26 May 2020 20: 23 New
        +1
        You are in vain to bring down all the "bumps" on Serdyukov.
        you decided it for me. I called the phenomenon ...
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 26 May 2020 22: 11 New
          -1
          Quote: smaug78
          I called the phenomenon.

          You have correctly formulated this phenomenon. Each phenomenon should have its own apt name, everything is in the eyebrow. And if someone doesn't like it, you can call it "stool".
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 27 May 2020 10: 37 New
      +2
      Quote: smaug78
      Serdyukovshchina on the march ...

      Not ... with a furniture maker, the price of domestic UDC would be the same or slightly more than that of Mistrals. What, what, and bring down prices for products of the military-industrial complex Serdyukov loved, able, practiced. smile
      1. smaug78
        smaug78 27 May 2020 13: 21 New
        0
        Along the way, playing in another ...
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 27 May 2020 16: 35 New
          +1
          Quote: smaug78
          Along the way, playing in another ...

          Well, not without it. smile
          - Are there any drives?
          - I apologize?
          - Drives. Have you ever been arrested?
          - Never condemned.
          For this, I earned another stern look.
          “I did not ask if you were condemned.” I asked if you had ever been arrested.
          - Well yes. And who was not exposed?
          - For what?
          - Once again?
          “How many times have you been arrested?”
          “Oh, three ... or maybe four dozen times ... but have never been condemned.”
          The joker's eyebrows now crawled up.
          “Have you been arrested almost fifty times and have never been convicted?”
          “There are no witnesses,” I answered, showing him all my teeth.
          © Asprin
  13. V.I.P.
    V.I.P. 26 May 2020 18: 45 New
    +4
    Well, I drank the rollback not only in the USA and India. He is in the Russian Federation laughing See how much the S-400 operator’s seat costs. Although there is an ordinary computer chair from the store wink
    1. Vladimir61
      Vladimir61 26 May 2020 20: 19 New
      -6
      Quote: V.I.P.
      See how much the S-400 operator’s seat costs. Although there is an ordinary computer chair from the store

      Oh, the "fans" arrived with a shovel! So show me the price tag ... Then we will discuss.
    2. Tavrik
      Tavrik 26 May 2020 22: 55 New
      0
      Well, it’s probably not ordinary: with O1, with VP ... And a certificate of HRT.
  14. GMM
    GMM 26 May 2020 18: 47 New
    +8
    By the time they are built, the following names can already be given to them: Sergei Kuzhgetovich and Vladimir Vladimirovich.
  15. Demagogue
    Demagogue 26 May 2020 18: 52 New
    +2
    And I wrote repeatedly that it is easiest to take Mistral as a basis. And some doubted)) All the design documentation was. We did the sections ourselves. The deck was optically made good, wider than that of Mistral. The nose is less chopped off, they won about 10 meters in length, but it was still possible. The question is how many elevators are there and their location. If there are two in the front and rear, then in the future there may be a successful lightweight aircraft carrier with airborne forces.
    1. bk0010
      bk0010 26 May 2020 19: 34 New
      0
      Quote: Demagogue
      And I wrote repeatedly that it is easiest to take Mistral as a basis.
      The sailors then swore on the Mistral: comfortable, they say, but barges. The enemy’s influence is not calculated.
      1. Demagogue
        Demagogue 26 May 2020 20: 48 New
        0
        But there is no other adequate project. To work out a new project means to lose at least 6 years. And maybe they will speed them up a bit. If the hospital was removed for 68 people and the hangar was extended into the nasal section, then there is a very good capacity there.
        1. dgonni
          dgonni 26 May 2020 23: 57 New
          +3
          There I’ll love another project. For Mistral have diesel engines with generators and in a dvigatelya steering columns. There is nothing like that in Russia! Therefore, what is requested as a replacement is NPO Saturn gas turbines with gear transmission. Which entails a complete change and revision of the propeller group as well as the internal layout of the ship.
          P.S. Steering columns by the way on the Mistral used for good reason. Amazing maneuverability and ease of control. So the new udk will obviously be something else and not a copy of the French
          1. pl675
            pl675 27 May 2020 01: 03 New
            0
            Quote: dgonni
            There I’ll love another project. For Mistral have diesel engines with generators and in a dvigatelya steering columns. There is nothing like that in Russia! Therefore, what is requested as a replacement is NPO Saturn gas turbines with gear transmission. Which entails a complete change and revision of the propeller group as well as the internal layout of the ship.
            P.S. Steering columns by the way on the Mistral used for good reason. Amazing maneuverability and ease of control. So the new udk will obviously be something else and not a copy of the French


            you carry nonsense and game, azipod power plants are successfully produced in Russia
            1. dgonni
              dgonni 27 May 2020 11: 03 New
              0
              A horse neighing. Not well, if the company ABB Russian then it is of course. And if what arrived from behind the hillock and twisted our workers to consider domestic, then of course this is a successful production in Russia. All! What stands on the Russian tanker fleet and is put on other vessels is not Russian!
              P.S. And for helicopter carriers, don’t go to the grandmother, none of the Europeans will supply the rudder columns. However, like diesel generators.
              1. pl675
                pl675 27 May 2020 13: 24 New
                0
                Quote: dgonni
                A horse neighing. Not well, if the company ABB Russian then it is of course. And if what arrived from behind the hillock and twisted our workers to consider domestic, then of course this is a successful production in Russia. All! What stands on the Russian tanker fleet and is put on other vessels is not Russian!
                P.S. And for helicopter carriers, don’t go to the grandmother, none of the Europeans will supply the rudder columns. However, like diesel generators.


                if I'm wrong, I apologize.
                a couple of years ago I watched a story where azipod was shown and positioned as an achievement of Russian engineers. Apparently (as you commented) it was a screwdriver assembly.
                therefore, they didn’t finish it, they deceived, and I became addicted.
          2. Demagogue
            Demagogue 27 May 2020 10: 27 New
            0
            If you do not copy the French, then we will lose a lot of time. The Japanese went to Izumo for about 50 years and through several generations of helicopter carriers. Mistral's project allows you to jump over a couple of generations. The fact that you have mechanisms in one compartment and not in another is not a new project. Of course there will be changes. Moreover, it is not clear how the contract was drawn up with the French and how much needs to be changed in order to get away from copyright. So far, the Mistral is clearly visible in the sketches. The previous pictures that popped up, and the layouts, The surf of the same, were terrible. Naturally, those projects did not work as a result. Returned to Mistral. It's good. Learn better from someone else's experience.
            1. dgonni
              dgonni 27 May 2020 16: 21 New
              0
              The general principles of construction can and should be copied, because the design documentation has been received and no claim will be made.
              But an absolute copy will not work for the reasons that I have already cited. A completely different design of engines and propulsion force radically redesign the project. For with the French project, power generators and propulsors could be carried as you like. And when using turbines, shaft shafts, gearboxes are needed, and most importantly, air must be supplied to the turbines as well as exhaust gas exhaust. A turbine is not a diesel engine, there are completely different volumes.
              And I agree, the base should be taken by the French.
    2. timokhin-aa
      timokhin-aa 27 May 2020 20: 30 New
      0
      It cannot, there will not be enough displacement, lifts and hangars will not give, etc.
      This project will not be able to carry aircraft, and most importantly, if you now begin to do VTOL, then by the readiness of the first squadron, these UDCs will have an average repair.
      And since R&D on VTOL is still going on, and before OCD, as to China, it’s cancer, then if they do, then when this couple needs to be written off.
      1. Demagogue
        Demagogue 27 May 2020 20: 40 New
        -1
        Little information yet to argue. Let's wait for more detailed sketches. If Dokdo can carry SVVP, then this boat is even more so. It can become a prototype for a full-fledged light aircraft carrier.
        1. timokhin-aa
          timokhin-aa 27 May 2020 22: 48 New
          0
          What does "carry" mean? Dokdo for helicopters does not provide conditions for combat use simultaneously with a mechanized airborne detachment, either-or there.
          A ship should not carry aircraft, and they should be fully based on it, with the possibility of long-term combat use.

          This is not even American ships provide.
          1. Demagogue
            Demagogue 27 May 2020 22: 59 New
            0
            Invincible was much smaller than our mistral. And he calmly provided everything. There should be two light aircraft carrier in aug. Everything works in tandem.
            There is a constant miniaturization of military equipment, but you do not take this into account. Already now you can put a powerful radar from afar to a helicopter, get a full Avax. New drones will appear soon. People do not understand why Americans put a laser on a ship and shoot down models. And tomorrow swarms of models will make a rustle. And how many models can you bring down from six-barrels? Units, 20 seconds there bq. And the laser shoots much longer. And where to let the modelka swarm? Someone is preparing for the last war, and someone for the future.
            But it is possible to load fuel, etc. from a supply vessel, this is not a problem.
            1. timokhin-aa
              timokhin-aa 27 May 2020 23: 04 New
              0
              Invincible was much smaller than our mistral. And he calmly provided everything.


              Poorly provided. The phrase "the worst hangar in the world" was not my idea.

              Everything works in tandem.


              Read the RAND study on a light aircraft carrier, there this point is disclosed.

              Already now you can put a powerful radar from afar to a helicopter, get a full Avax.


              It is impossible, the altitude is small, there is no opportunity to follow combat aircraft, low search performance, small combat radius and patrol time.
              Although in itself a helicopter is needed.

              You will have to throw from the UDC and the landing and premises for him to get a normal hangar.
              Or learn to minimize space.
              1. Demagogue
                Demagogue 28 May 2020 10: 15 New
                0
                You will have to throw from the UDC and the landing and premises for him to get a normal hangar.


                The landing on the UDC is until the moment of landing in fact. That is, you propose to land, and then the UDC becomes a useless target? No ka-50s will support the landing from him beyond the horizon. Fly far and we know what happens to helicopters during similar operations in Grenada. That is, FPS are needed at least to support the landing.
                Carrying the entire landing on the udk is optional. It can be transplanted before disembarking from another ship. Plus, nobody has canceled specialization. The Americans in the Gulf took one udk purely for Harrier work along the shore. Landing support.
                A helicopter-based AWACS is much better than nothing, and without fishing gear this will not happen.
                1. timokhin-aa
                  timokhin-aa 28 May 2020 13: 02 New
                  0
                  That is, you propose to land, and then the UDC becomes a useless target?


                  There, the main work begins AFTER a landing, if that. You have to run to nausea.
  16. Gennady Korsunov
    Gennady Korsunov 26 May 2020 19: 10 New
    0
    100 billion allocated to 56 regions of Russia to support the pants, and as many as two (barges) as the press called Mistral. No matter how these new projects share the fate of Almaty,
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 26 May 2020 19: 57 New
      -1
      Armata is in trials and this is why these helicopter carriers will repeat its fate - they will be tested.
    2. AllBiBek
      AllBiBek 26 May 2020 23: 38 New
      0
      But is it okay that all these regions also have their own budgets?

      In general, one and a half yards of bucks for two such ships on a turnkey basis - not even the Zumvolt looks at this contemptuously, but only one of its weapons. More precisely, his project.

      The finished F-35 is also perplexed, "What is so possible for that kind of money?"
  17. MstislavHrabr
    MstislavHrabr 26 May 2020 19: 11 New
    0
    And the fact that the boat quadrupled on seaworthiness and speed will not affect?
  18. TermNachTer
    TermNachTer 26 May 2020 19: 33 New
    -1
    I would like to remind the author that the Mistral was built according to the civil shipbuilding standards, which is why it was so cheap. But, as my late grandmother used to say: "Cheap riba, nasty yushka." Maybe it will be more expensive, but according to the standards of the Russian Navy.
    1. Alexander Mironovsky
      Alexander Mironovsky 28 May 2020 15: 07 New
      0
      What are the norms of civil shipbuilding ?! This is a combat ship - UDC, with its tasks and design features ..
      1. TermNachTer
        TermNachTer 28 May 2020 19: 05 New
        0
        There is no such thing as a warship. Because the ship - this is the military (combat). Civilians are ships. The French built the Mistral according to the norms of civil shipbuilding, which is why it turned out so cheap. But the crew, this cheapness would come out sideways.
  19. IC
    IC 26 May 2020 19: 35 New
    +5
    If normal economic growth does not begin and a radical reorganization of shipbuilding does not take place, the ships will be built by 2030. The cost will increase at least 1,5 times. And military expediency by 2030 can change dramatically.
    1. Alf
      Alf 26 May 2020 19: 46 New
      +6
      Quote: IMS
      If normal economic growth does not begin

      Why did it happen ?
      Do you think anything will change with Mishustin? Suggest his previous job?
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 26 May 2020 19: 58 New
      -7
      So until 2030 the Russian economy will grow by 30 percent.
      1. Alf
        Alf 26 May 2020 20: 11 New
        +6
        Quote: Vadim237
        So until 2030 the Russian economy will grow by 30 percent.

        Why not 20 or 40?
        But only someone will grow something.
  20. DDT
    DDT 26 May 2020 19: 45 New
    -4
    And with the tsukhet of the occupation of Crimea and the associated costs, the cost of these helicopter carriers is just golden ... But yours, but you can be proud laughing
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 26 May 2020 20: 00 New
      -6
      See how many other helicopter carriers in the world cost.
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 26 May 2020 22: 23 New
        -1
        Quote: Vadim237
        See how many other helicopter carriers in the world cost.

        The main thing is not how much they cost, but how much they build. Helicopter carriers are one of the most important aspects of the strength of the Navy of any country. Some countries already have them on their balance sheet, someone at the stage of buying or building their helicopter carrier. One thing is certain - every country that has access to the sea and a desire to have the right to speech will try to take such a giant onto the balance of its fleet.
  21. acetophenon
    acetophenon 26 May 2020 19: 46 New
    -1
    Quote: TermNachTER
    I would like to remind the author that the Mistral was built according to the civil shipbuilding standards, which is why it was so cheap. But, as my late grandmother used to say: "Cheap riba, nasty yushka." Maybe it will be more expensive, but according to the standards of the Russian Navy.

    Ha-ha ... And mine used to say: "Expensive, but cute, cheap, but rotten", lol
  22. Sotskiy
    Sotskiy 26 May 2020 19: 51 New
    +3
    The Russian Ministry of Defense signed a contract with the Zaliv shipyard in Kerch for the construction of the first two universal landing ships (UDC) for the Russian fleet.

    Alive smoking room! good
    At the beginning of the 50s, they stood there in a dry dock for repairs. The huge plant "Zaliv" once again, but was still breathing after the collapse of the Union. They were saved by the construction of 100-XNUMX thousandth buildings, by the method of sectional welding for the Italians.
    Therefore, they probably gave them the UDC for the construction and were given that they did not squander the experience in such a construction.
  23. xomaNN
    xomaNN 26 May 2020 20: 06 New
    -1
    I would be glad if in 2020 there will be 2 UDC bookmark. The French documentation that the Russian Federation got as a consolation bonus is becoming obsolete. In the world military shipbuilding, every 3-5 years a new one is introduced into technical processes. So it is necessary to embody the drawings in "hardware".

    And the ships will be clearly "toothy" and larger than their French counterparts. And, accordingly, more expensive. Moreover, on the head orders, according to the experience of alterations, there will be many inconsistencies. And this will be more in terms of time and money.
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 26 May 2020 22: 26 New
      -1
      Quote: xomaNN
      Moreover, on head orders, according to the experience of alterations, there will be many inconsistencies. And it will be more time and money.

      And we must not forget that many components in Russia are not yet available.
  24. Snail N9
    Snail N9 26 May 2020 20: 27 New
    12
    Anecdote (it happens in different interpretations): A competition for the construction of a bridge is announced, Turks, German and Russian responded to the competition. They call a Turk and ask how much the bridge will build? Turks for 1 million dollars. Well, they say, go, we will call you when we make a decision. I call the German: How much do you build a bridge? German for 2 million dollars. Him, and so expensive, won the Turks for 1 million promises to build? We give a German guarantee of 200 years and the famous German quality. Well, they say, go, we will call you. They call a Russian and ask: how much will you build? Russian for 3 million dollars. Why are you foolish? where the price comes from, even the Germans promised to build for 2 million? Russian: how is the price? it's simple: 1 million to you, 1 million to me, and for the remaining 1 million, the Turks will build a bridge for us ...
  25. d4rkmesa
    d4rkmesa 26 May 2020 20: 29 New
    0
    As for me, it’s even better - there will be work for the Crimeans. Krylov projects - well, to be honest, whatever they paint, but the result is either 1143 or "Rogov".
  26. dgonni
    dgonni 26 May 2020 20: 38 New
    +1
    Until there is clarity with the propulsion system for the UDC, all attempts and bookmarks of the ships will be virtual.
  27. bar
    bar 26 May 2020 21: 24 New
    -6
    New Russian UDC will cost the fleet twice as much as Mistral

    They will not cost the fleet, but the country. And rubles, for which there will be jobs, the salary from which will remain in the country too, and not euros, which will go to the greedy French. In addition, some of this money will most likely go towards the modernization of the Kerch "Zaliv", which is also good.
    1. TatarinSSSR
      TatarinSSSR 26 May 2020 21: 39 New
      12
      Do you yourself believe that? Remember how much new frigates, fighters, helicopters, rocket and aircraft engines, and submarines sold to Asian countries. Where is the money from these contracts? In golden parachutes of oligarchs and top managers of Rosoboronexport and others at this feeding trough. Where are all these billions?
      1. bar
        bar 26 May 2020 21: 59 New
        -4
        Do you yourself believe that?

        I want to believe. And I want to believe that times are changing and the country is changing. Tired of living in pessimism and vanity
        1. TatarinSSSR
          TatarinSSSR 27 May 2020 00: 43 New
          +8
          it is not pessimism. This is reality. I personally would like our army (Russian) to be equipped with the most modern weapons and in the right quantity. But so far I see only front-exhibition tanks and front-exhibition aircraft. And the wild cut of money on contracts MO.
          1. bar
            bar 27 May 2020 07: 55 New
            -5
            Your reality is no secret to me. I have known for a long time that VO is the nest of all the fighters. And the number of "+" and "-" in this thread is a clear confirmation of this. To be honest, I'm tired of your nagging and missing polymers. At least minus, but this whining of adult men is simply disgusting.
            1. TatarinSSSR
              TatarinSSSR 28 May 2020 22: 12 New
              +3
              I will give you an example. If tomorrow at 07:00 Moscow time war. Full blown. With NATO and with the USA. Who will go into battle in the air? Westbound for example. Three dozen Su-35s, less than 60 Su-27s of various modifications and about 40 Mig-29s are also mottled. Well, MiG-31, if you take BM then three dozen. All. All-in-all. This is against hundreds of Euro-American (total 1300) F-35, F-18, F-16, F-15, Eurofighter, Mirage-2000, Rafaley, Grippenov and others. Plus Turkey with its 200 F-16s and so on. What will change a lot of two MiG-35 and 11 Su-57? I think no. Any questions? I think no.
              1. bar
                bar 29 May 2020 08: 13 New
                -2
                I will give you an example

                Your defeatist examples are not needed. Your sect of whining all-scufflers with their minuses has already been noted. You crush anyone with a mass, calm down.
                1. TatarinSSSR
                  TatarinSSSR 29 May 2020 15: 39 New
                  +3
                  That is, you are not interested in facts, are you interested in the cons that affect your ranking on the site? I will answer the same - I am a realist. And people like you are called "hurray quacking". Why? Google it.
                  1. bar
                    bar 29 May 2020 19: 45 New
                    +1
                    And people like you are called "hurray quacking".

                    You started cheerfully. Have you glued the label and feel better? Well, okay, keep whining on, "realist" with an eternal half-empty glass of brandy that stinks of bedbugs. For you, this site will be like a home, the same musty and stuffy.
                    As for the minuses, this is just a statement of fact. The depressants' opinion of my humble person has long been known to me and is not interesting. Exactly like the ratings.
                    I happened to be here by chance, I just came across some interesting articles about military equipment and weapons. But that was a long time ago, and since then a lot has changed not for the better. Instead of a serious discussion of articles, Yaroslavna's continuous cry with puddles of snot. And in place of the articles themselves, there were re-posts of "iksperd opinions" from all sorts of yellow resources. Apparently, serious authors stopped coming here. But you will get accustomed here stopudovo, with your "realism" you got to the right place.
                    1. TatarinSSSR
                      TatarinSSSR 29 May 2020 23: 01 New
                      +1
                      Labels were the first to stick to you. Does memory suffer? Reread your first and next answers to me. Before you lecture, look back at yourself.
  28. Alexey Sommer
    Alexey Sommer 26 May 2020 21: 31 New
    +5
    So I did not understand. Where will we land on it?
    To California?
    1. TatarinSSSR
      TatarinSSSR 26 May 2020 21: 40 New
      10
      Per turn. In the next pandemic, we will export to them families of oligarchs and officials from the resort regions of the world.
    2. AllBiBek
      AllBiBek 26 May 2020 23: 33 New
      0
      Riyadh will be more interesting.
  29. fa2998
    fa2998 26 May 2020 21: 32 New
    +5
    Quote: Spade
    Damn, it's like buying a cool and expensive car audio system. This car is not having.

    I agree! What nonsense! They think that 2 ships, with paratroopers somewhere will sail, and there will make a rustle? Landing ships, this is the final part of the operation. First, the FLEET AND MARINE AVIATION should establish dominance there. What corvettes will we send? And "Kuznetsov" "Maybe we're not starting with that? We need an ocean-going fleet."
    Yes, and various ideas richly. We will not pull everything. And the Su-57, PAK YES, "Armata" with a generation, and new missiles, and super torpedoes, lasers. And everything else - 4+ planes, helicopters, fleet.
    Well, if you need to earn money "respected people" can build for 30 years, and regularly finance. hi
  30. TatarinSSSR
    TatarinSSSR 26 May 2020 21: 35 New
    11
    100 billion for two undercovers, and besides, usually at the time of completion this amount pours out at least twice as much! This country can be loved sincerely, but its leadership is despised - it’s straightforward very sincerely.
  31. Victorio
    Victorio 26 May 2020 21: 49 New
    -2
    Twice as expensive The Mistral.

    A contract signed in June 2011 with France for the construction of the Mistral universal landing helicopter carrier ship was evaluated at 1-1,2 billion euros

    At the current rate, this is already 1,317 billion euros (the average rate for 2020 is 75,9 rubles per euro). At the same time, experts note that the externally presented ships resemble the Mistral, although they have grown slightly in size.
    ===
    small confusion
  32. for
    for 26 May 2020 22: 06 New
    0
    At the same time, the experience of creating large helicopter carriers in the Soviet Union was

    These are completely different projects. If the RCC helicopters, this does not mean that he is a helicopter carrier.
  33. 123456789
    123456789 26 May 2020 22: 09 New
    0
    Twice as expensive as the Mistral.

    A contract signed in June 2011 with France for the construction of the Mistral universal landing helicopter carrier ship estimated at 1-1,2 billion euros. At the same time, it is known for certain that for breaking the contract France returned 949 million 754 thousand euros to Russia, as well as Russian equipment installed on the ships. In any case, at the time of the conclusion of the contract in 2011, the purchase of Mistral cost the Russian budget approximately 41-49 billion rubles at the then exchange rate (the average exchange rate for 2011 was 40,9 rubles per euro).

    Two new UDCs of Russian construction will cost taxpayers already 100 billion rubles, that is, at least twice as much. At the same time, the ruble, of course, seriously depreciated against the euro and the dollar after 2014, but the cost of the ships still increased markedly. At the current rate, it is already 1,317 billion euros (the average rate for 2020 is 75,9 rubles per euro).

    and in parrots, I’m much longer!
    1. 123456789
      123456789 27 May 2020 06: 25 New
      0

      and in parrots, I’m much longer!
  34. nks
    nks 26 May 2020 22: 12 New
    0
    Quote: Alekseev
    and 10 percent

    40 minimum
  35. Valter1364
    Valter1364 26 May 2020 22: 59 New
    +2
    I propose to build a dozen at once. From clay and reeds, then maybe we will meet the declared estimate.
  36. LeonidL
    LeonidL 27 May 2020 00: 40 New
    -1
    "in the TASS report itself it is said that the agency does not have an official confirmation of the information about the concluded contract, and the press service of the Zaliv shipyard told reporters that they are ready to build amphibious helicopter carriers for the Russian fleet, noting, however, that they do not have information about deal. "TASS does not have a position, and Zaliv does not know ... But the amount is known? Since the time of the French contract, a lot of water has flowed under the bridge and the ruble is not the same ... Besides, it is simply stupid to repeat the Mistrals unambiguously - these are not the ships that were required then and are needed now. Those that are supposed to be built will be more modern and better adapted to the requirements of the Russian Navy, with domestic equipment. Therefore, to speak behind the eyes of the rise in price or reduction in price of what so far no one has seen in the eyes too early. But it is clear that the fleet of amphibious ships is working today with enormous wear and tear, and by itself is far from young. Therefore, UDC is needed undoubtedly.
  37. Volga073
    Volga073 27 May 2020 06: 38 New
    -2
    Afftor stupid uncle .. but at least 10 times!
    ----
    It is one thing to give money to the country of NATO, and another - these 100 yards will go to their own workers and engineers!
  38. rocket757
    rocket757 27 May 2020 06: 43 New
    0
    Twice as expensive as the Mistral. Two universal landing ships for the Russian Navy

    Then they should be "cosmically better" !!!
  39. mark1
    mark1 27 May 2020 08: 53 New
    -1
    Twice as expensive as the Mistral.

    And what, money will leave the country somewhere?
  40. Momotomba
    Momotomba 27 May 2020 09: 21 New
    +1
    Will they build a wall for him? And it will be like with Novorossiysk: I came to the Pacific Fleet and stood on the raid, because there was nowhere to moor ... No matter how good a ship with super capabilities would be, but without the infrastructure in the database, it's just throwing money away ...
  41. Phoenix
    Phoenix 27 May 2020 09: 33 New
    -2
    With the exception of the icteric headline - sensibly painted. About the cost ... You probably have to create production which has not yet been, hence the price of the contract may be so much higher. No matter how much, all this money will remain in the country and will settle in the pockets of the workers of hundreds of enterprises involved in the work. Not so bad.
    1. Alexander Mironovsky
      Alexander Mironovsky 28 May 2020 15: 27 New
      +1
      This money will be taken from someone and redistributed to others with the result in the form of a stupid, terribly expensive and useless toy, and which will require constant multi-million dollar injections for maintenance! Again, the terms of construction., Delivery, the presence of VTOL, for what then is the point in them - dry cargo ships and ferries can deal with
  42. Adimius38
    Adimius38 27 May 2020 10: 17 New
    0
    The amount is larger due to the fact that this is a really new project and much needs to be done for this project from scratch, unlike the same French, where the technology and production are already refined. If we set up our production and launch a series, then at the next stage we can talk about cost reduction. It’s too early to talk about this. The author of the article said A but did not tell B why the cost is higher. This is a world practice, always the first batch comes out very expensive, then the cost is reduced, as for example with the same American F-35 aircraft. These UDCs are of course necessary for Russia; we have a huge gap in such ships. All we have is a Soviet-built BDK, which, not only are they of a solid age, but also significantly inferior in capabilities to the new UDC. Modern UDC is a multifunctional platform that can solve a number of problems from logistics, command and staff to offensive and providing fire support. In addition, these are jobs, this is the development of production and all sectors associated with it. Of course the country needs this.
    1. Nikolay Balashov
      Nikolay Balashov 27 May 2020 17: 57 New
      0
      I already left a comment that comparing the cost of Mistral and Surf is not correct due to the fact that the equipment is in the first Russian production, i.e. we did not pay for it. A Surf fully equipped will naturally be more expensive.
  43. Lynx-z
    Lynx-z 27 May 2020 10: 50 New
    +4
    there is an amendment in the article that in reality, due to the change in course, the project cost is not twice as high as the purchase of the Mistral ... but nevertheless the headline was catchy ..
    and even money, even taking into account the double cost, they go not abroad but to their plants and their workers .. and to the development of technology. it somehow fell out
  44. Angry
    Angry 27 May 2020 11: 54 New
    0
    It’s good that modern ships are appearing here, as an example 22160 ... and what to do with it? As I understand it, this UDC, not exactly UDC, but the aircraft carrier of the expeditionary flotilla. Which should be everything, including the marines. That is, this ship is the core of the modern fleet. In addition, it is clear that it will have Ka-52 and Ka-31 and Ka-27 and Ka-29, which increases the capabilities of the KMG or squadron. With the advent of aircraft GDP and they will appear there. But they require an escort, and with this stress. Therefore, for good, each of them should have three frigates laid in parallel at the same time, that is, six are already needed .. And this is not visible.
  45. Slavs
    Slavs 27 May 2020 11: 57 New
    0
    "- now we can talk about
    -about 41-49 billion rubles-
    course at the end of 2011 - 40,9 rubles per euro
    - already at 100 billion rubles -
    course for 2020 - 75,9 rubles per euro
    - Little is known about the project of the new UDC - "
    Exactly twice as expensive ??
    The fact that they do not meet, do not have time and plunder - yes, most likely ...
  46. vkd.dvk
    vkd.dvk 27 May 2020 12: 25 New
    -1
    The author understands little in the organization of production. The manufacture of any product, for the first time, is possible only with the new construction of equipment, tooling, design development, research in the field of materials science, electronics (at least linking to a place well known). And, therefore, the price of the product includes all preparation costs. If there are several products, then the price of this is distributed to everything, which reduces the unit price.
    Considering that the French have already released their pieces of iron, undoubtedly, their business was just fine, and therefore cheaper. Let’s see if these steamboats will be produced in quantities of more than two and for export (we hardly need them in large quantities), then we will talk about prices. It is known that the assembly technology of the case is very different from that used in our country. This requires a lot of change.
  47. vkd.dvk
    vkd.dvk 27 May 2020 12: 39 New
    -2
    Quote: Lynx-Z
    on the development of technology. it somehow fell out

    And this is the most important thing. Large-block assembly of the hull, from elements manufactured on various small-sized slipways, and towed by water to the dock for assembly, is the highest mathematics of the organization of work. This is a revolution similar to the assembly line of cars invented by G. Ford.
  48. Alexander Zima
    Alexander Zima 27 May 2020 12: 58 New
    0
    But what does this writer, the acsperd, do not write. that Russian ships are twice as large as the storage boats .. and on the Russian Mistral can be placed and vertical wing take-off .... and this is almost an aircraft carrier.
    1. timokhin-aa
      timokhin-aa 27 May 2020 20: 35 New
      0
      Because it is not.
  49. 2 Level Advisor
    2 Level Advisor 27 May 2020 13: 43 New
    +1
    Every time I come up with a topic about UDC, I ask the same unanswered question .. A new naval ship is always good .. But, this is an attacking ship in fact .. Where are we planning to land? where is the potential DB theater? Syria and so on - in such circumstances, ordinary dry cargo ships will cope - it is expensive to use something like a UDC barge .. Or are we planning to become an analogue of the "striped aggressor" - to establish our own rules around the world? What is their construction in the number of basic necessities - the rest of the niches with a lack of ships - are they filled? In general, I still did not understand and did not hear anywhere, where will we use the UDC?
    1. Bersaglieri
      Bersaglieri 27 May 2020 14: 45 New
      0
      For "show the flag"
      1. 2 Level Advisor
        2 Level Advisor 27 May 2020 15: 48 New
        0
        For the flag, UDC is not a go-ahead? For me, the frigates do well with the flag .. Yes, and they look spectacular ..
    2. bk0010
      bk0010 27 May 2020 16: 20 New
      0
      Quote: Level 2 Advisor
      But, this is an attacking ship in essence ..
      No. Helicopters are there, they can effectively solve the problems of PLO. Landing when there will still be, and PLO every day is necessary.
      1. 2 Level Advisor
        2 Level Advisor 27 May 2020 17: 21 New
        0
        UDC PLO? Well, this is definitely original, no one has that .. and there are 32 PLO helicopters? cool .. but in theory it’s possible .. for example, to cover the submarine’s exit with a swarm of PLO helicopters ..
    3. Nikolay Balashov
      Nikolay Balashov 27 May 2020 17: 52 New
      0
      In Venezuela, order is maintained on the canal under construction in Nicaragua.
  50. kig
    kig 27 May 2020 13: 46 New
    0
    36 meters wide ... the Panama Canal will not pass ... if only by a new