Military Review

"PseudoZISy" at the Victory Parade: a story that it would be better not to happen

115

ZIL-4329AP and the real ZIS-5V. Source: Alexey Benera, fototruck.ru, en.wheelsage.org


A good idea


The celebration of the 60th anniversary of the Victory in 2005 was planned to be celebrated widely. As a highlight, it was decided to take veterans along Red Square to the legendary ZIS-5V. And not on a couple of cars following the T-34-85, but immediately in the composition of ten “boxes” of 12 cars each with a commander’s truck at the head. Total - 130 ZIS-5V, which prudently required 10 spare vehicles.


"PseudoZIS" is preparing for the parade. Source: Mazepa V.G., Shelepenkov M.A. Plant and people. 1916-2016 (in 3 volumes). Volume 3. Submission of positions (ZIL. 100 years)

Naturally, such a large number of wartime trucks, and even capable of breaking Red Square without breakdowns, were not. In total, in normal condition there were no more than ten ZIS-5. Therefore, it was decided to build trucks from scratch, more precisely, on the basis of existing models.

The idea, as we see, was originally very good: on the anniversary of the great Victory, solemnly take veterans to world leaders on retrocopies of wartime trucks. However, this idea came into the minds of the leadership too late, in October 2004, which, of course, did not imply the production of copies of the ZIS-5 close to the original. Igor Lysak, head of the ZIL experimental research corps, recalls:

“It all started with the fact that the management asked us:“ Choose a model on the basis of which you can create a machine similar to the ZIS-5 at minimal cost. ” The “bull-calf” is not suitable for these purposes, which means that the “big ZIL” remained. The very first sample of the “retro-ZIS” was shown to the plant management and representatives of the Ministry of Defense in early February: they approved the car, but advised to make a number of changes. ”

In fact, the very first sample was shown back on November 24, 2004, and it inspired a little horror. According to Alexander Lazarev, who worked at that time as an AMO-ZIL design engineer, the ZIS-5V replica looked more like a hippopotamus and frankly smacked of "collective farm" tuning. Then they didn’t even decide to show the car to the military and began to process the layout.

Initially, the truck for the parade was built on the basis of the six-ton ​​ZIL-432930, from which the cabin was dismantled, replacing a metal tubular frame sheathed with 10 mm plywood. From plywood, they even sawed emblems of the Stalin plant on the grille. And all would be fine, but the layout of the modern truck is a lot different from the cars of 60 years ago. First of all, it is the ZIL cabin, pushed onto the front axle in order to increase the useful length of the loading platform. Accordingly, the motor moves forward, going beyond the truck base. At ZIS-5, everything was much more elegant, since it was still being built according to the classical recipe with the wheels far ahead and the engine in the base. Now, not even all passenger cars are designed like that, not to mention trucks. There was neither time nor money to reconfigure the civil ZIL, so I had to sculpt some kind of illustrious “three-ton” from a six-ton ​​truck. Obviously, the opinion of veterans who still remembered the original cars, neither the factory workers nor the military were particularly interested.


The first "hippo". Source: Mazepa V.G., Shelepenkov M.A. Plant and people. 1916-2016 (in 3 volumes). Volume 3. Submission of positions (ZIL. 100 years)

The rush in which the machines were designed and built inevitably affected the quality of the ZIL-4328AP (this name was given to the “front” cars). Eyewitnesses say that the welds on the tubular frame were rough, and between the doors and the cabin the gaps were a finger thick. The car did not have side and rear windows together with the inner lining. However, ZIL products of those years and in serial execution did not differ in special quality. But the entire mechanical part underwent a separate verification of the quality of execution - the Ministry of Defense was the last to wait for failures during the Victory Parade. All 140 cars were required to be manufactured by March 2005, so that there was still a month left to train drivers in synchronous driving.

I must say that the “retro-ZIS” was collected by almost the entire AMO-ZIL plant. Cab elements were made in the model workshop, it was assembled in a new body building, and the whole machine was made out in an auto assembly building, on the plant’s head conveyor.

Suspicious resemblance


After the November failure, when a clearly crude layout was shown, engineers and assemblers approached the modeling of the appearance of the replica more carefully. They put a narrow radiator, conjured over the equipment of a diesel engine, which allowed to narrow the hood to the radiator grill. They abandoned the bumper, leaving only the characteristic towing fangs, but even they were not able to spoil the already unsuitable appearance of the cabin. And with a “cherry on the cake” more elegant doors were installed in order to bring the proportions of the 6-ton truck closer to the “three-ton”. We managed it by the end of January 2005 and immediately put the updated truck on the vibration stand for the “three thousandth” (this is about kilometers) test. During the “shaking” two modes were modeled: movement along a smooth road surface and profiled cobblestone imitating Red Square. The cabin made of pipes and plywood withstood the vibration test, and on February 3, ZIL-4328AP appeared before military acceptance.

Oddly enough, I liked everything, just asked to remove the handrails on the sides of the body and build them up with another board. The military did not bother (they say there was a major general and colonel) that the replica of the Victory domestic truck was more like the German Magirus and Vomag of the early and mid 30s of the last century. That is, created under the power of the Nazis! And in each such "pseudo-ZIS-5" it was supposed to put 20 veterans - for this, the seats were borrowed from the Bychkov buses. Landing was provided through the tailgate via a ladder with a handrail, which was then pushed into the body between the rows of seats. By the way, the trucks were not just to be honored by the participants of the war along Red Square, but also delivered after the holiday to their place of residence in the city.


ZIL-4329AP. Source: Mazepa V.G., Shelepenkov M.A. Plant and people. 1916-2016 (in 3 volumes). Volume 3. Submission of positions (ZIL. 100 years)


The day when the ZIL-4329AP for the first time took on board veterans. April 29, 2005. Factory parade "AMO-ZIL". Source: kolesa.ru

Veterans of the Great Patriotic War for the first time saw the creation of the hands of car manufacturers even before the holiday: on April 29, a traditional parade was held at the ZIL in front of the Glory monument to the heroes of the war. Then for the first time ZIL-4329AP for the first time and took on board the war veterans. The machine appeared before the workers and employees of the plant, invited by military personnel of the Presidential Regiment, cadets of the military-technical school with a brass band. It is not known for sure, but perhaps after that, the newspaper “Moscow Automobile Plant” described the impression of the new item:

“On a quick inspection, the car resembles German heavy Magirus or MAN trucks of the late 30s and early 40s.”

The Zilovites themselves did not deny the obvious resemblance to fascist technology!



"PseudoZISy" at the Victory Parade: a story that it would be better not to happen

Who does the ZIL-4329AP really look like: at the top is Magirus, below is Vomag. Germany. 1930s and 40s. Sources: autowp.ru, auto.vercity.ru

After the factory manufactured all 140 cars, they went to Teply Stan to the place of permanent basing, and pre-train training was usually held on the Khodynsky field. During the Victory Parade, it was not known where the information came from that trucks, stylized as a GAZ-AA lorry, were traveling along the cobblestones. This is to the fact that it was impossible to unambiguously determine the belonging of the resulting miracle. However, in one of the interviews, Mayor Luzhkov called the three-ton ZiSs “the one and a half we won.” Maybe this is what caused a strange rumor.

As if ashamed of their own creativity, the factory workers after the parade dismantled almost all the “retroZISs” and returned them to their original form of the donor ZIL-432930. The fact is that contact with the Ministry of Defense did not imply a ransom of 140 trucks, and after the restoration of the car they were sold. According to available data, only three vehicles remained alive after the 60th anniversary of the Victory: in the Ryazan Museum of Military Equipment, in private hands and on the territory of the plant. The last one, with an inscription on the back of the car “Glory to the soldiers of the 1st Belorussian Front”, was destroyed in 2014.


ZIL-4329AP in Ryazan. Source: offroadclub.ru

“They wanted the best.” This is how you can briefly retell historyassociated with the construction of ceremonial replicas of ZIS-5 for the Victory Parade 2005. And after the retelling a lot of questions arise ...

If it was initially clear that it wouldn’t work out so quickly, why didn’t the trucks change? After all, was it possible to assemble a collection of ZIL-157 and ZIS-151? Or were they too much like the Lendlisian Studebakers? If so, then why not bring veterans to the familiar Urals with honor? And symbolism here would be no less. In the end, it was possible to turn to GAZ, maybe they would have obtained one and a half loots more adequately.

Having no competitors in the struggle for a military contract, the Zilovites treated the issue as real monopolists. And the military simply had no choice but to accept the “pseudo-ZIS”. Accept and forget - as a story that would be better not to happen.
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  1. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 27 May 2020 18: 04 New
    15
    A good idea
    Yes, darlings are vile and crooked hands. request I don’t trust Liberasts, anyway we’ll get a spit in our history. angry What a monument, what a poster, postcard, model ...
    1. Grandfather
      Grandfather 27 May 2020 18: 12 New
      38
      rot, you can't hide it, it still stinks. many "punctures" of the authorities are striking, trying to pretend to be "decency", but in fact it is clear how the Soviet past is being destroyed and leveled out,
    2. AllBiBek
      AllBiBek 27 May 2020 18: 25 New
      15
      In fairness, the idea (and its financing at ZIL) was dragged by Luzhkov and his camarilla.
      1. 210ox
        210ox 27 May 2020 18: 59 New
        41
        It would be better to remove the drapery from the mausoleum ...
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 27 May 2020 20: 24 New
          +6
          Quote: 210ox
          It would be better to remove the drapery from the mausoleum.

          Do not remove.
          1. vsdvs
            vsdvs 28 May 2020 13: 30 New
            +6
            Yourself? Never and never! Only a pendal.
        2. kit88
          kit88 27 May 2020 22: 01 New
          11
          Quote: 210ox
          It would be better to remove the drapery from the mausoleum ...

          Are you sure that you want to see on the rostrum of the mausoleum of billionaires from the ruling party now, waving to the people with a pen?
          I personally do not.
          Maybe it’s right that the mausoleum is now under the sarcophagus. Till.
          1. Graz
            Graz 28 May 2020 05: 03 New
            17
            Well, I think it’s not worthwhile to climb into the mausoleum, but open it for review on such holiday dates
          2. tihonmarine
            tihonmarine 28 May 2020 16: 49 New
            +7
            Quote: kit88
            Are you sure you want to see billionaires on the platform of the mausoleum

            Mausoleum open to the people. Well, let these stand together with the people near the Mausoleum.
      2. Phil77
        Phil77 27 May 2020 19: 05 New
        20
        Oh! Compared to the current * bureauführer * Yuri Mikhailovich was just an innocent child!
        1. AllBiBek
          AllBiBek 27 May 2020 19: 11 New
          21
          Yes, and in St. Petersburg, no, no, yes, nostalgic for aunt-Mota at the helm.

          And so, even with Ilf and Petrov, this question is fully disclosed in one phrase: "In such a position, he could not but steal." And it is closed to her.
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 27 May 2020 21: 19 New
            11
            Yes, you know, I would have called this Poroshello Bordyurovich Plitkin not even the mayor, no! But rather the burgomaster of the occupied city! am
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 28 May 2020 21: 05 New
              +3
              There are people who are ungrateful !!!! (99 percent of Muscovites). It takes care of you, and you say nasty things to him! laughing However, Peter has already passed all this, under Yakovlev ....
          2. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 28 May 2020 21: 11 New
            +1
            Really nostalgic, even, sometimes, me.
        2. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 28 May 2020 21: 08 New
          0
          Lujkova you also cherished.
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 29 May 2020 06: 53 New
            +1
            Greetings Anton! I did not cry, but criticized! laughing Often in the case, he also had certain shortcomings. There were! But what does this Border do?!? This is already beyond human understanding! He allowed to play sports on the street in a mask! He allowed walks in a mask! Tile, asphalt is laid every six months . Permanent repair in the city! This is so, a few sketches about his * activity *. There wasn’t a leader who would have been so hated in the capital! Not !!!!
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 29 May 2020 07: 08 New
              +1
              Good morning, Sergey!
              You probably noticed that I used the pronoun "you", meaning not specifically you, but Muscovites in general. I am aware of the mood of the residents of the capital, all maternal relatives live in Moscow and the region.
              1. Phil77
                Phil77 29 May 2020 07: 27 New
                +1
                No, Anton! I perfectly understood your irony. laughing A little later, I hurry to work. Rain!
              2. Phil77
                Phil77 29 May 2020 08: 18 New
                0
                So, I will continue my thought. Luzhkov was his own! He was born in Moscow, worked in Moscow and served Moscow. There are, of course, questions about taste preferences / Tsereteli, Gazmanov, etc./, but overall, the norm. And most importantly! He didn’t * small business, he did not destroy his small forms for the sake of large firms / trade, and not only /. In general, the attitude of Muscovites to him was positive.
                To * the reindeer herder * the attitude was not important before, but now .... !!!!!!!! Beyond! This can be called open hatred, hatred of the occupier !!!! am
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 29 May 2020 08: 28 New
                  +1
                  Here, probably, the fact is that Muscovites, even in comparison with St. Petersburg, have too small a statistical series for a qualitative analysis of the activities of the mayor.
                  1. Phil77
                    Phil77 29 May 2020 08: 43 New
                    +2
                    I would not say.
                    Efremov, Pronin, Popov, Yasnov, Bobrovnikov, Digay, Crafts, Saykin, Popov, Luzhkov. And this after the revolution! And before it? You can study history by those names. So it’s not so simple. hi
                    1. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 29 May 2020 08: 58 New
                      +2
                      I meant post-Soviet history. I can’t compare Romanov and Poltavchenko, if we talk about Peter.
                      1. Phil77
                        Phil77 29 May 2020 09: 05 New
                        +1
                        29 years old? Then, yes, not enough. good
                        Of these, Yuri Mikhailovich from 96 to 2010. Resin is short-lived. And this one is from the age of 13. recourseI don’t mention Popov ....
                      2. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 29 May 2020 09: 14 New
                        +2
                        Nobody remembers Popov except Muscovites, and they are not all.
                      3. Phil77
                        Phil77 29 May 2020 16: 17 New
                        +3
                        * Muscovites loved their mayor so much that they always ordered a song to him personally on radio stations: * Return a forest deer to your country with a deer ... *. laughing
                      4. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 29 May 2020 17: 28 New
                        +2
                        Petersburgers love their mayor so much that they even gave him a nickname: "Biglove". laughing
                      5. Phil77
                        Phil77 29 May 2020 19: 05 New
                        +3
                        Oh Anton !!!! Sorry for God's sake!
                        With the day of your wonderful beautiful city !!!!!! May 27!
                        Sorry forgot!
                        * City over the free Neva
                        the city of our labor glory.
                        Listen Leningrad, I will sing to you
                        my sincere song ..... * hi
                      6. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 29 May 2020 19: 25 New
                        +2
                        Thank you, Sergey !!! I am saturated in this city. He is in my blood, I am in his blood ...
  • Civil
    Civil 27 May 2020 20: 56 New
    19
    And ZIS is no ZIL is also gone. All liberalists with effective managers under the leadership of the patriots squandered.
  • RUSS
    RUSS 27 May 2020 22: 00 New
    +3
    Quote: Mavrikiy
    A good idea
    Yes, darlings are vile and crooked hands. request I don’t trust Liberasts, anyway we’ll get a spit in our history. angry What a monument, what a poster, postcard, model ...

    Liberals again? laughing
    What are they in this case?
    1. Civil
      Civil 28 May 2020 07: 27 New
      +4
      Quote: RUSS
      Liberals again? laughing
      What are they in this case?

      Liberals, patriots are all different sides of the same coin) cheap and worthless
  • barium
    barium 28 May 2020 10: 59 New
    -1
    meadow, just to tear off the money ...
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Phil77
    Phil77 27 May 2020 18: 11 New
    28
    And personally, I am most sorry for our Moscow car factories! Both ZIL and AZLK! At AZLK I began my working biography, just in the model shop. Far 1980.
    1. sabakina
      sabakina 27 May 2020 18: 17 New
      17
      Sergey, but you think I’m not sorry! ZIL, AZLK is more than just a vehicle!
    2. Proton
      Proton 27 May 2020 18: 20 New
      20
      The base was destroyed, the operating time. And most importantly, the jobs were destroyed. On one ZIL 75 thousand worked am
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 27 May 2020 18: 28 New
        21
        Yes, yes! * City in the city *! Infrastructure, rest houses, pioneer camps, a clinic. Hospital! Also yours! Now it was transferred to the city, but the bus stop was called- * ZIL Hospital *.
      2. Dr. Frankenstucker
        Dr. Frankenstucker 27 May 2020 19: 23 New
        -19
        The base was destroyed, operating time.


        what developments? ZIL dreamed of surrendering to the Chinese, then the Belarusians, the Indians, then the Koreans, then almost the Italians. What's the point in his "work" if the speech in the XNUMXs, during his agony, was stupid about licensed assembly?
        1. Alf
          Alf 27 May 2020 19: 42 New
          22
          Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer
          if it was zero at the time of his agony stupidly about the licensed assembly?

          And who brought ZIL to a state of agony? Damned commies or beacons of democracy and the market?
          1. AU Ivanov.
            AU Ivanov. 27 May 2020 19: 57 New
            -22
            How many morally and technically obsolete models could be kept on the assembly line without developing and not trying to create something decent. No market lights will help here. Oranges will not grow on the aspen.
            1. Alf
              Alf 27 May 2020 20: 26 New
              13
              Quote: AU Ivanov.
              How many morally and technically obsolete models could be kept on the assembly line without developing and not trying to create something decent. No market lights will help here. Oranges will not grow on the aspen.

              Watch such a wonderful series of Wheels of the Country of Soviets, there in one of the series entirely devoted to KAMAZ and ZIL the answer to this question is given. And look how many new truck models were created by then.
              1. AU Ivanov.
                AU Ivanov. 27 May 2020 20: 35 New
                -6
                Experimental trucks that never went into the series. The conveyor drove auto trash anyway.
            2. Dr. Frankenstucker
              Dr. Frankenstucker 27 May 2020 20: 28 New
              -15
              keep morally and technically obsolete models on the assembly line without developing


              that's it. This nostalgic cry is already pretty boring. You can, of course, whine that the 130s are still crawling along the roads of Cuba and S. Korea, it's so sentimental ... "made in the USSR" and all that.
              1. AU Ivanov.
                AU Ivanov. 27 May 2020 20: 38 New
                -15
                That's it. Compare the ZIL models with contemporary German or American models. A disgrace.
            3. ximkim
              ximkim 28 May 2020 05: 26 New
              -9
              Quote: AU Ivanov.
              How many morally and technically obsolete models could be kept on the assembly line without developing and not trying to create something decent. No market lights will help here. Oranges will not grow on the aspen.

              I support it. That's why the plant was closed. It was not taken abroad especially, so there were no suitable models for foreign buyers (especially for civil purposes). For ZIL, this is a large auto laboratory that made models for: for members of the CPSU of the USSR, the search complex "blue a bird more "and about big" monsters "for off-road. And for the masses (people) they did nothing. sad
              1. Jager
                Jager 28 May 2020 07: 33 New
                +9
                Now "for the people" the Chinese are now making them, with their Khovo, Fav and other foil. ZIL destroyed and divided the land.
                1. ximkim
                  ximkim 28 May 2020 08: 03 New
                  +3
                  Not only ZIL suffered such a terrible fate (to destroy the plant) .. They do not want the factories, only the lands on which the factories stood / stood the sweat building houses.
            4. Nike
              Nike 28 May 2020 06: 55 New
              10
              Saying "obsolete"? "Each vegetable has its own time" That ZiL could be disassembled and assembled on the farm, can you repair a modern machine in the garage? There was no base for the repair and maintenance of more modern (by that time) machines. KamAZ's attempt to make a service system was successful% by 10.
              So they stretched their legs over their clothes ", but there was no comfort in the ZiLs, especially on long trips, but the car was reliable, for five years it never returned to the garage on a" backboard ".
              1. AU Ivanov.
                AU Ivanov. 28 May 2020 09: 23 New
                -4
                Primitiveness has never been a virtue. Who prevented to establish high-quality service and produce modern high-tech cars that are convenient for the driver?
                1. l7yzo
                  l7yzo 29 May 2020 08: 55 New
                  +5
                  The vastness and lack of roads. In the wilderness, you need a car that is terribly simple and maintainable "with a key and a crowbar." In the north, it's not that there is no PC, there is no power there - and how are you going to diagnose on-board PCs of a car? Wang ??
                  1. AU Ivanov.
                    AU Ivanov. 29 May 2020 09: 25 New
                    0
                    Who prevented the creation of a maintainable car with a driver-friendly cab? With good heat and sound insulation, an anatomical driver's seat, adjustable for any height. Air conditioning, autonomous heater - an elementary care for the driver. In developed countries, all this was standard on the truck.
                    1. l7yzo
                      l7yzo 29 May 2020 13: 14 New
                      +4
                      Take a look at the map and think about the service of such units. Conder adds expense, and complicates attachments, requires a change in electric circuits, you need an on-board PC.
                      Did I understand correctly what we are talking about 90 years ?? For the conveyor - new machines were needed. Elemental base - there has always been a problem of advice / Russia. This is a complex. Automobile building is a reflection of the overall development of industry. And then she bent the current, squeezing, grips, cut, etc. One-sided, you somehow judge the problem.
                      1. AU Ivanov.
                        AU Ivanov. 29 May 2020 13: 20 New
                        0
                        I'm talking about the 70s - 80s. Promising developments were put on the cloth. And there were developments and they were at the world level. Air conditioning is not a whim, but ensuring the driver's comfortable work, it is impossible to save on a person, even if this complicates the design. All these occupational diseases of the spine in the driver are a consequence of an uncomfortable fit, scant adjustment of the controls. But the Union preferred to drive the shaft of technology without caring for those who would operate it.
          2. Dr. Frankenstucker
            Dr. Frankenstucker 27 May 2020 20: 03 New
            +5
            WHO


            and this is not the point.
            But let me remind you that the "lights of democracy" are reincarnated "commies", isn't it? The main shareholder of ZiL was the government of Moscow in the 92nd. I hope you don’t need to explain that it just recently laid out party cards from its jackets? ZiL was doomed even then. And Laptev .... yes, you are a seasoned administrator.
          3. AllBiBek
            AllBiBek 27 May 2020 20: 24 New
            11
            Excuse me, who brought Detroit to the state of a ghost town, Republicans, or Democrats in the USA?
            Detroit is now a millionaire bankrupt, a decaying ghost town.
            1. l7yzo
              l7yzo 29 May 2020 08: 58 New
              0
              Big business - it has become cheaper to have factories in countries with lower social costs / wages / medicine / raw materials / energy / taxes.
              Moved to the same Asia or South America.
              1. AllBiBek
                AllBiBek 29 May 2020 12: 14 New
                0
                Well, the same American engines "Kammens" the same KAMAZ buys from Brazil, it seems, but the German boxes "Tsenrad-fabriks" assembles from components on the spot.
                Conclusion?
                In a gas station country, the state somehow clings to producers. But in the printing press - profit is at the forefront, and instead of supporting their own - they prefer to earn paper, which they themselves print, beyond their borders.

                How strange to me.
                1. l7yzo
                  l7yzo 29 May 2020 13: 20 New
                  +1
                  And in order to become liquid in production, our currency fell, It was 20+ per dollar, and it became about 70. This is how a handful of selected enterprises were supported. The oil industry, metallurgists and Atoprom, and in West there are fewer Russian spare parts than in the Ford assembled in the Russian Federation. But KAMAZ - through and through China has become ...

                  in the USA, by default they could not lower the currency and save on sn. Therefore, the production they left.
                  But as early as about 5 years, they have been undergoing strong robotization of factories, which allows economically returning many industries back to the USA, which, by the way, is successfully happening.
                  1. AllBiBek
                    AllBiBek 29 May 2020 14: 10 New
                    0
                    I would not say that the same KAMAZ just keeps a number of bourgeois enterprises nearby, where they use engines and boxes to assemble engines with screwdrivers, but it has its own ones - worse and cheaper - it has the same thing. It’s a full cycle, it’s a bunch of plants cooperating. Plus, in the vicinity there are a lot of industries, there are both Nizhnekamsk and Yelabuga with its free economic zone.

                    One horseradish, of course, works half-heartedly and most of the year - in a four-day week, but - holds on, and even somehow develops.

                    What he was in the 90s, when the engine factory completely burned out - I remember very well that after this year three was a lot of fun.
        2. Johann Klassen
          Johann Klassen 27 May 2020 23: 16 New
          11
          Well, yes, you are also talking about "Civil Aviation", say that they say they drove one rubbish.
          And that everything that was produced in the Soviet Union, including the products of the military-industrial complex, was obsolete and suitable only for scrap metal, or for sale to the Third World.
          Today they say you buy only "the best in the world."
          1. AU Ivanov.
            AU Ivanov. 28 May 2020 09: 30 New
            -3
            Our civilian aircraft were uneconomical. Gluttonous with primitive avionics. Low range, high noise, four-membered crews. Developed countries did not buy them - unprofitable.
            1. notingem
              notingem 29 May 2020 10: 45 New
              +2
              These aircraft were intended primarily for domestic flights. And these tasks were carried out successfully. But the task of competing with Boeing and Airbus was not even set. And now we need to think about 1/6 of the land and not about competition with the world monsters of the aircraft industry. But some business -patriots really want dollars and euros
              1. AU Ivanov.
                AU Ivanov. 29 May 2020 10: 52 New
                0
                On one of these aircraft, namely the An-26/24, I partially left my hearing. And I'm not alone. And this is not good when, for domestic consumption, the technique was made "for nothing" and so it will come off - the Russian Vanka will endure everything. And hearing loss and joint disease from noise and vibration and diseases of the spine in drivers from an uncomfortable landing and a draft-blown cab.
                1. notingem
                  notingem 5 June 2020 10: 28 New
                  0
                  Conclusion. We will fly on Boeing. In our seats are not comfortable and ears are laying. Yes, and in general they simply do not
      3. Johann Klassen
        Johann Klassen 27 May 2020 23: 04 New
        15
        Was it too late, comrade?
        Once, in my hometown of Orsk, in August 1991, there were 38 enterprises, most of which were evacuated to Orsk in 1941, which employed more than half of the population (230000 thousand people lived in the city of Orsk).
        And today, everything is destroyed.
        Afloat, a couple of: Oil refinery im.Chkalova, Former mailbox 12, and the rest are either closed and sold in court, or simply abandoned abandoned.
        And how many such cities and abandoned, useless enterprises and factories throughout our vast country.
        Do not count.
        And in the "digital economy", they have no place.
        1. Jager
          Jager 28 May 2020 07: 35 New
          +3
          The freezing chamber "Orsk" has been working reliably since 92, in the past only the compressor was tired. Has gone through three moves, works 24/7/365.
        2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 27 May 2020 18: 47 New
      +6
      Good evening Sergey!
      Eh. Breaking does not build !!!
      Regards, Vlad!
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 27 May 2020 18: 54 New
        +5
        Good evening Vlad! Unfortunately, this old truth is still relevant! On the site of the old factory, a microdistrict with a view of the Moscow River and the Research Institute of Road Transport, although ... I don’t know what is in this building now.
        Regards, I! hi
        1. Crowe
          Crowe 27 May 2020 19: 12 New
          11
          2140 was at one time. Yes, sorry ... Moscow cars were not bad, both trucks, cars ...
          1. AU Ivanov.
            AU Ivanov. 27 May 2020 20: 00 New
            -4
            At one time it was 408 and 412, but this is AZLK. For the late 60s, very decent cars. 2140 was already auto-trash both morally and technically. ZILs also got stuck in the 60s, by the end of the 80s they were already archaism.
          2. SOVIET UNION 2
            SOVIET UNION 2 27 May 2020 20: 44 New
            +6
            Watching 2140 still running. and they look decent! The 41st is also on the go and I won’t say that it is rusty! It is in fair condition!
            1. Dr. Frankenstucker
              Dr. Frankenstucker 27 May 2020 20: 56 New
              -11
              Watching 2140 still running.


              is this where they run? Throw off the geolocation, I'll go look at the "decent-looking" 2140.
              1. SOVIET UNION 2
                SOVIET UNION 2 27 May 2020 21: 01 New
                +8
                We have a lot of these running around. Or do you think everyone drives foreign cars? We still have police rides on sevens and loaves run in an ambulance! There are also Cossacks and Luazes! Also on the go! And the Volga is a lot. True, their numbers in recent years have greatly thinned. And so the private sector was very fond of the Volga. Basins are coming!
          3. Dr. Frankenstucker
            Dr. Frankenstucker 27 May 2020 20: 46 New
            -10
            Quote: Crowe
            2140 was at one time.


            so what was he? A wretched attempt to prolong the life of a dying 412th? In the 76th, as soon as he appeared, he already sucked. Well, yes, with a paucity of choice ... However, the Soviet auto industry gave birth to a whole layer of social subculture - "Where is dad, Mishenka? - In the garage!" It was our answer to their garage rock. laughing
        2. Phil77
          Phil77 27 May 2020 19: 22 New
          +2
          Incorrectly written! Research institute of technology of the automotive industry, sorry! hi
        3. AllBiBek
          AllBiBek 27 May 2020 21: 32 New
          +3
          "Falcats" are assembled with screwdrivers on top of the KAMAZ-extreme chassis. If I'm not mistaken, just there.
    4. mitrich
      mitrich 28 May 2020 18: 43 New
      +1
      ZIL has not yet gone, but AZLK is the fear of God. For so many years, self-propelled buckets were let out with difficulty, and cars did not learn how to do it. Why does a factory producing golem de.mo? Previously, it was necessary to disperse them.
  • AllBiBek
    AllBiBek 27 May 2020 18: 11 New
    11
    Had to inspect them close, and in the cab in the driver's seat, too, had a chance to judge.

    So yes, the cattle truck is still there, the author still softens how it was actually assembled. Uncoated pine boards painted in one pass with a paint roller - this is the body, the same under the ass of the driver - this is in the cab. Gear knob - with a pair of nuts instead of a knob, steering wheel - a dream of Sacher Masoch in its purest form.

    Judging by the pictures from the inside and outside, the military issue is more convenient and better.

    And, yes, there was a latch on the door from the inside, at least in the car that I was in. Just in case. But shutting the door was really not easy.

    It was really a shame for those who did this, and for those who were taken to them through Red Square.
  • sabakina
    sabakina 27 May 2020 18: 12 New
    +7
    This is quiet horror! As a professional driver I’ll say that I wouldn’t put my warring ancestor on this car!
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 27 May 2020 18: 34 New
      +1
      So, dear Eugene wrote so that * it * was done in a hurry, in the mode * tyap-lyap *. And this turned out to be such a strange miracle! Someone can see the report very good!
    2. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins 27 May 2020 18: 47 New
      +2
      "And the cavalry is walking along the arena and pulling an armored train on ropes ...."
      I well remember that parade and that shock from what I saw!
      But the matter did not die out - in one of those miscarriages, which is called the "war series" (even like this year), a similar (and maybe survived) craft appeared.
      1. AllBiBek
        AllBiBek 27 May 2020 19: 04 New
        +3
        I don’t remember exactly, but it seems like they planned to disassemble them all after this disgrace for parts, in the same place "Bull" in the base.
        So, most likely, they tried to make an ersatz-Opel-blitz out of a serial bull on the move (and there are still some), but it turned out "it will do just that!", And it was filmed in this role.
  • Dr. Frankenstucker
    Dr. Frankenstucker 27 May 2020 18: 35 New
    +2
    in the Ryazan Museum of Military Equipment


    and what, interestingly, does this squalor do there ???
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 27 May 2020 18: 48 New
      +3
      Demonstrated as a visual aid on the topic "What should no one ever do". soldier
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 27 May 2020 19: 00 New
        +3
        Good evening, Konstantin! I’m glad to meet you! In principle, the Zilovites turned out to be the 4331st scary one. But we need to ask the guys who worked on it. And I mean aesthetics.
      2. Dr. Frankenstucker
        Dr. Frankenstucker 27 May 2020 19: 03 New
        +1
        Yeah...
        This is some ... shame
        (C)
      3. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 27 May 2020 19: 18 New
        +1
        Quote: Sea Cat
        Demonstrated as a visual aid on the topic "What should no one ever do".

        Or maybe they sent in return for those convertibles that stool fired.
  • Simfy
    Simfy 27 May 2020 19: 23 New
    +7
    Veterans should be transported to the Aurus, and not to these cattle trucks
  • Undecim
    Undecim 27 May 2020 19: 27 New
    13
    An example of how loyal diligence replaces common sense. After all, it could have been "less is more." I don’t believe that it was impossible to make two or three dozen worthy replicas in a car plant in a year.
    People on the knee do.

    Sevastopol Replica on the GAZ-52-04 chassis.
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 27 May 2020 19: 31 New
      14
      Krivoy Rog. Replica on the GAZ-51 chassis.
      1. AllBiBek
        AllBiBek 27 May 2020 20: 28 New
        +7
        And Nizhny offered this level and for less money.
        But while they pulled the cat by the balls, February 2005 struck.
        And blinded from what was at hand.
        I can’t say the cost, but it seems like the amount figured within a million. A piece. Rubles.
        2005 year.
    2. Alf
      Alf 27 May 2020 19: 45 New
      +5
      Quote: Undecim
      People on the knee do.

      These people did for themselves and for history. And "these" are for dusting.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 27 May 2020 19: 47 New
        +4
        But you can also "dust" in different ways.
        1. Alf
          Alf 27 May 2020 19: 49 New
          +5
          Quote: Undecim
          But you can also "dust" in different ways.

          What for ? The simpler, the better, and no one will notice the difference anyway, except for professionals, and there are very few of them, mostly hamburger-eaters and screaming "wow".
        2. barium
          barium 28 May 2020 11: 18 New
          0
          Dust, you can with a gain!
          1. AK1972
            AK1972 28 May 2020 12: 32 New
            0
            Quote: barium
            Dust, you can with a gain!

            Then do not dust, but to saw.
    3. Dr. Frankenstucker
      Dr. Frankenstucker 27 May 2020 19: 52 New
      -6
      two or three dozen worthy replicas could not be made in a year


      yes, and a dozen plywood Reichstag. Collapsible.

      What for?
      1. AllBiBek
        AllBiBek 27 May 2020 20: 29 New
        +1
        Well, the application would be found.
        Like a free public toilet, for example.
  • 16112014nk
    16112014nk 27 May 2020 22: 17 New
    +2
    Quote: Phil77
    the bus stop was called- * ZIL Hospital *

    Now there is no such stop. Now - "Buyanov Hospital". The memory of the ZIL is completely erased.
  • for
    for 27 May 2020 22: 57 New
    -1
    The idea, as we see, was originally very good: on the anniversary of the great Victory, solemnly transport veterans to world leaders

    The parade goes out for the "leaders" (or the first letter P), and the Veterans are artists. Can smuggle them, led by ours in the cages in front of the Veterans.
  • Revolver
    Revolver 28 May 2020 00: 05 New
    +1
    From the same opera as the poster glorifying the Soviet pilots, with the image of the Yu-88.
  • Mustachioed Georgian
    Mustachioed Georgian 28 May 2020 04: 14 New
    +5
    My old man on ointment
  • Free wind
    Free wind 28 May 2020 04: 48 New
    0
    Volgovsky engine. and normally everything would work out. But ZILovsky cannot be hidden under the previous hood.
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 28 May 2020 05: 57 New
    +3
    No wonder, it always happens when fools are trusted with a glass product.
    1. barium
      barium 28 May 2020 11: 20 New
      0
      correctly said !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • mosmasterstroi-sv
    mosmasterstroi-sv 28 May 2020 09: 16 New
    +6
    I am a participant in the 2005 parade. It is on one of these machines. I want to remind the author that when these cars were transported to p.mosrentgen, almost half of them began to fall apart on the road.
    And the next week, we did not get out from under them. Absolutely everything fell off and turned off. When the classes on the hodyne began, the masters of your factory repaired them around the clock. The lack of glass had a big impact on health. It passed through everyone. The fathers of the commanders you mentioned forbade wearing civilian warm clothing under military uniforms. By the way, Lieutenant General Petrovsky commanded all this event. Very sensible and balanced. And its exact opposite is Major General Soldatenko.
    To summarize, I want to say that our car industry, even for such a great holiday, could not assemble 140 cars with high quality.
    1. Cheerock
      Cheerock 29 May 2020 00: 00 New
      +2
      At that time he worked at the UCER ZIL, I remember those freaks well and how they strewed. If at that moment we go and see who collected them on the assembly line and on the salary sheets of these people, there would be much less questions))))
  • barium
    barium 28 May 2020 10: 58 New
    0
    meadow, just to tear off the money ....
    1. barium
      barium 28 May 2020 11: 22 New
      0
      my words are like a cactus in ..pu?
  • Gudov Mikhail
    Gudov Mikhail 28 May 2020 11: 48 New
    +3
    I liked the article. I agree with many things. I disagree only with one of the latest proposals "Having no competitors in the fight for a military contract, the Zilovites treated the issue as real monopolists." You can hear some kind of reproach in this phrase. Was there time for any other decisions at the plant? I was a participant in this race. He was engaged in the manufacture of the hood frame. And the work was not difficult. But the turmoil! Coordination and joining of parts in place. But they were in time! We dropped everything and had time! For the fact that they completed this order on time, but at the same time not quite having time to fulfill their production plan, the management noted a decrease in the premium.
  • Alexfly
    Alexfly 28 May 2020 18: 22 New
    0
    Shame on you! And does someone else open their mouths about patriotism?
  • Crimea26
    Crimea26 28 May 2020 23: 50 New
    +1
    They wanted to get ZISy, but more on I or YAG it turned out similar. Although, too - with a big stretch.
  • Cypa
    Cypa 29 May 2020 08: 31 New
    0
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    Lujkova you also cherished.

    The meadow does not blame, and in Siberia to rake the snow
  • KrolikZanuda
    KrolikZanuda 29 May 2020 18: 39 New
    0
    Shame on the Victory Day Parade
  • Vladimir Burmistrov
    Vladimir Burmistrov 30 May 2020 11: 11 New
    0
    in the palace of pioneers do better
  • tank64rus
    tank64rus 1 June 2020 09: 19 New
    0
    It would be better if the Mausoleum was opened, but the portrait of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief was placed where he was on June 24, 1945.