Military Review

June 1941: everything for the union, everything for the Victory

180

12 days of summer



From the second half of the 50s of the last century, analysts, historians, and publicists regularly introduce assertions that the Soviet leadership at the beginning of the war was nothing more than confused and lost the thread of government. That nothing was done to forestall the Nazi invasion. And only on July 3, Stalin was allegedly forced to call on brothers and sisters for popular resistance to Nazi aggression.

From numerous sources it is known that such cliches went to growth from the very report of Khrushchev "On the cult of personality" of February 25, 1956. After which they began to be replicated more and more often, and not only in the USSR. And to this day, they are very eagerly replicating, all the more so since there is still no question of a return to real respect for the then-popular government, with all its excesses and tragic mistakes.

But all these falsifications in the first two military weeks were denied not only by the fierce, truly heroic resistance of the Red Army to the Nazi invasion. The refutation, which the West is now carefully hushing up, was the operational acquisition of the USSR by the allies - the USA and Great Britain, together with the colonies and dominions.

Today we have to remind, although this is done too rarely, that the initiative of the military alliance against Hitler in the summer of 1941 did not come from Moscow. Winston Churchill, the British military prime minister, defended Russia before Stalin, although this is constantly blamed on the Soviet leader.

In addition, we must not forget that Nazi Germany posed a mortal threat not only to the USSR, but also to Britain. And the United States, with all the desire and a huge number of supporters of isolationism, in any case, could not sit out overseas. What they could count on in Washington, having remained without allies, and even against Germany, Italy and Japan, which soon joined them, is not easy to say.

But it is much more important that the USSR actually remained on the side of the anti-Hitler coalition even at the time when the Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact was in effect. There is no doubt that for a very long time not only among historians, but also among politicians, disputes will continue whether there was more harm or benefit from the pact in terms of preparing for war. Almost inevitable, given the notorious Hitlerite Drang nach Osten.

Recall that before that there were battles in Spain, and then the Soviet peace proposals of 1938 in an attempt to forestall the Anschluss and the occupation of part of Czechoslovakia. And right after that - an offer to the Allies to come together against Hitler, as well as the idea of ​​an anti-German alliance so thoroughly soaked right now with Poland.

However, the heirs of Pilsudski were much more eager to deal with red Russia in alliance with Germany. And after they managed to lure them or, more precisely, outbid old friends from Paris and London, the reckoning in September 1939 was too cruel.

The Soviet Union simply prudently took advantage of the dramatically changed situation to push its western borders 200 and more kilometers. Perhaps it was precisely these kilometers that saved Leningrad and Moscow. By the way, from this point of view it would be nice to consider the tragic “winter war” with Finland, which almost turned for Soviet Russia a new intervention of its future allies.


It must also be remembered that Moscow began to fight German Nazism and Italian fascism already in Spain, although very peculiarly and with numerous mistakes. However, one way or another, the Francoists managed not only to withdraw from the anti-Comintern pact, but also force them to refuse to participate in the world war.

From evacuation to Lend-Lease


For Britain, the advance of the Nazi troops in the East did not mean just a respite, but in fact salvation. The most important thing, especially from a psychological point of view, for the British was that the battles with the Russians almost completely distracted the Luftwaffe from the bombing of English cities. After all, help from the United States on the scale that could fundamentally change the situation was not worth waiting for at least another one and a half to two years.

Characteristically, the timing of the start of any volumetric deliveries under Lend-Lease and to the Soviet Union turned out to be about the same. Only after the Allied fleets turned the tide in the protracted Battle of the Atlantic, and the southern Iranian and northern (through Alaska and Siberia) routes, weapons, equipment, military materials and food began to arrive in the USSR in volumes comparable to the production inside country.

Naturally, the newfound allies of Moscow were interested in the presence of the Russian front, so huge geographically and attracting not only the main ground and air forces of Germany. Whatever the case with social systems, the United States and Britain, in fact, turned out to be on the side of the predominant part of the Soviet military economy. Another thing is that, unlike the German Ruhr, after the war it was not possible to drive it under the “Marshall Plan”.

In his famous speech on June 22, 1941, British Prime Minister Winston Churchill indirectly, if not directly revealed the essence of the British position in connection with the Nazi invasion:

“An attack on Russia is nothing more (just“ no more. ”- Approx. Aut.) Than a prelude to an attempt to conquer the British Isles. Without a doubt, Hitler hopes to complete all this before winter, to overwhelm Britain before the fleet and the United States Air Force will be able to intervene. "

Characteristically, following Churchill, similar statements in short form were made on June 23-24 by the premieres of the British dominions: Australia, Canada, New Zealand, and the South African Union. Then the US leadership agreed with Churchill, having made an official statement: already on June 23 he was read in the White House by Acting Secretary of State S. Welles.

A statement welcoming Churchill’s speech on June 22 noted that

"... in connection with the Nazi attack on Russia, as stated by the head of Soviet diplomacy, Mr. V. Molotov, on June 22, any rallying of forces against Hitlerism, regardless of their origin, will accelerate the fall of German leaders. And the Hitler army is a major danger to the American continent. "

The next day, President Roosevelt said at a press conference that

"The United States is pleased to welcome another adversary of Nazism and intends to provide the Soviet Union with all possible assistance."

Already on June 27, 1941, the British military-economic mission arrived in Moscow, led by the British ambassador S. Cripps, Lieutenant General M. McFarlan and Rear Admiral G. Miles. About a week later, with this mission, the first plans for economic and military-technical assistance to the USSR from Great Britain and its dominions were agreed. The routes of these deliveries were determined by the North Atlantic (to the ports of Murmansk, Molotovsk, Arkhangelsk and Kandalaksha), used since August 1941, and in the near future South, along the corridor Iraq - Iran - Transcaucasia / Central Asia.

They managed to open the southern route, despite the fact that Germany and Turkey, just four days before the Nazi attack on the USSR, signed the Treaty of Friendship in Ankara, which entered into force on the day it was signed. Turkey managed to neutralize throughout the war mainly through diplomatic efforts and unprecedented promises for the future.

Iran actually had to wrest from the clutches of a potential German ally by conducting the notorious operation "Consent". It was the entry of Soviet and British troops into the country in parallel with the coup when Khan Reze on the ancient Persian throne was replaced by his son Mohammed Reza Pahlavi.

It is significant that Operation Consent was agreed upon by Moscow and London already during the visit to Moscow of the aforementioned British mission in late June 1941. In this way, Iran de facto became a member of the anti-fascist coalition, which, of course, influenced Ankara.

As a result, through the territory of Iran, but partially along the Iraq-Iran corridor, from the end of September 1941 various allied cargoes, including weapons, began to arrive in the USSR. Russia will never forget that Lend-Lease became a reality even before the Red Army launched its first major counter-offensive near Moscow.

Stalin knew


The falsifications were not the subject of “Stalin did not know,” or rather, “did not want to acknowledge,” became very common in the USSR and then in the Russian Federation from the second half of the 80s, when a particularly active treatment of “union consciousness” began. However, they are often substantively refuted by Western media.

Let's say the BBC on June 22, 2016 recalled:

“In May-June, Stalin secretly transferred 939 trains with troops and equipment to the western border; under the guise of training camps, he called up 801 thousand reservists from the reserve. And on June 19, he reorganized the border military districts into fronts by secret order, which was always and exclusively done a few days before the outbreak of hostilities. "

It was clarified that "the troop deployment was planned with the expectation of the completion of the concentration from June 1 to July 10, 1941."

In the collective monograph “1992: Lessons and Conclusions” published by the RF Ministry of Defense in 1941, it was very clearly stated that “the counter-offensive nature of the planned actions was influenced by the location of the troops (Soviet. - Auth.). Moscow intended to forestall the aggression of the Reich with its preemptive strike, but Hitler was tactically ahead of Moscow. ”

The term “tactical” here is probably not entirely appropriate, but we will not quibble. We simply admit that in the summer of 1941 the German Wehrmacht, formed mainly from experienced professionals, surpassed the Red Army in operational and strategic terms. And tactically the Germans could skillfully resist, alas, only a few units and subunits.

And the compounds that immediately fought with the enemy on an equal footing can generally be counted on the fingers. Moreover, with regard to the technical support of our troops, Hitler chose perhaps the most opportune moment for the strike. Thousands of airplanes and tanksas, by the way, tractors, tractors and other equipment, were already on the verge of decommissioning, and new equipment, which had only just begun to arrive in border districts, soldiers and officers often had not even begun to master.

As an example, we give only one 9th mechanized corps, commanded by the future Marshal Rokossovsky on the South-Western Front. It was almost completely equipped with BT-5 tanks, which were no longer the most modern, but for several weeks staunchly opposed the best divisions of the 1st tank group of General Goth. Near Dubno and Rivne, then - in the Kiev direction, until resources were completely exhausted.

As for the notorious “confusion” of the Soviet leadership in the early days of the war, this lie is all the more refuted by numerous facts. Materials from the SNK Union of the USSR and many other Soviet departments of the war period, as well as from the collection of documents of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation “The Course of the War” (2011) are especially indicative.

They testify that already at 10:30 a.m. on June 22, according to the order of Stalin, the first deputy chairman of the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR and the head (1943-1948) of the USSR State Planning Commission N. Voznesensky, having collected the people's commissars responsible for the main industries, energy and the transport complex, gave instructions provided for the operational implementation of the mobilization plans of 1940-41.

Already on June 23, 1941 the Headquarters of the High Command of the Armed Forces of the USSR was created as part of the people's commissar of defense, Marshal S. Timoshenko (its first chairman), chief of the General Staff G. Zhukov, as well as I. Stalin, head of the People's Commissariat of Defense V. Molotov, and marshals K. Voroshilov , S. Budyonny, B. Shaposhnikov and People's Commissar of the Navy Admiral N. Kuznetsov.

The trains went east


And the next day, June 24, 1941, in connection with the decision of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks and the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR for "directing the evacuation of the population, institutions, military and other cargo, equipment of enterprises and other valuables" under the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR (from July 2 - and under the USSR State Defense Committee) an evacuation council was created and began its work.

It included the heads of most economic departments of the country and its military-industrial enterprises. The leaders and co-chairs of the Council were alternately L. Kaganovich (the first leader was the People’s Commissar of Railways of the USSR), N. Shvernik (first deputy chairman of the Presidium of the Supreme Council of the USSR), A. Kosygin (first deputy chairman of the Committee on Food and Clothing Supply of the Red Army), M. Pervukhin ( Chairman of the Council on Fuel and Electricity under the Council of People's Commissars, from July 2 - and at the USSR State Committee for Defense).

It is worth recalling that the issue of evacuation began to be discussed in the Soviet leadership as early as March 1941: the corresponding directives on behalf of the General Staff were given on May 12-15, 1941 to the Baltic, Western, Kiev and Odessa military districts. Paragraph 7 of those directives specified:

“In the event of an involuntary withdrawal of troops, quickly develop, according to special instructions, a plan for the evacuation of factories, plants, banks and other business enterprises, government agencies, military and state property depots.”


June 1941: everything for the union, everything for the Victory

Obviously, the country's leadership foresaw the inevitability of a war with Germany, not excluding its unsuccessful move at the first stage. And, accordingly, they talked about the relocation of industrial capacities and population to the internal regions of the USSR. Already in July-November 1941, according to the Evacuation Council, 2593 enterprises of various industries and non-production facilities, including 1523 large ones, were exported to the internal regions of the RSFSR, Central Asia and Transcaucasia from front and front zones. By rail and water, up to 17 million people were evacuated.

On June 29, on the 8th day of the war, the directive of the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR and the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks was adopted by the party and Soviet organizations of the front-line regions. Which contained instructions on the deployment of the underground and partisan movement, determined the organizational forms, goals and objectives of subversive work against the aggressor. Along with other measures outlined in the same document, to turn the country into a single military camp to render a popular rebuff to the enemy.

Finally, on June 30, an extraordinary body was created - the State Defense Committee (GKO), headed by Stalin. As is known, the fullness of power in the state was concentrated in the functions of T-bills. Its decisions and orders, which had the force of wartime laws, were subject to the unquestioning implementation of the party, economic, military and all other bodies. And all the citizens of the country.

From July 9 to July 13, the British mission was again in Moscow, the result of negotiations with which was the signing on July 12, 1941 of the "Agreement between the governments of the USSR and Great Britain on joint actions in the war against Germany." The document was signed by V. Molotov and British Ambassador to the USSR S. Cripps.

"There was no particular specificity in this document, but it officially fixed the allied relations of both parties. And guaranteed the further development of interaction between the USSR and the British Commonwealth during the war period,"

- noted V. Molotov.

A similar assessment of the document was expressed not so long ago by MGIMO professor, doctor historical Yuri Bulatov:

"In this document, the platform for Soviet-British cooperation was very briefly described. The contracting parties stated the following: both governments mutually pledge to provide each other assistance and support of all kinds in the present war against Nazi Germany; they further undertake that during this war they will not will neither negotiate nor conclude a ceasefire or peace treaty except with a mutual agreement. "

The main thing is that the agreement of July 12, 1941 de facto and de jure laid the foundation for the creation of a broad anti-Hitler coalition.
Author:
Photos used:
pastvu.ru, cont.ws, ppr19.ru
Articles from this series:
The hard summer of the 41st: how the "obscene world" did not take place
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  1. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 28 May 2020 05: 54 New
    10
    An excellent review article briefly and to the point, a ready-made chapter in a history textbook!
    It must also be remembered that Moscow began to fight against German Nazism and Italian fascism already in Spain, although it is very peculiar and with numerous mistakes
    But as you know, one who does nothing is not mistaken.
    1. Crowe
      Crowe 28 May 2020 06: 41 New
      12
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      An excellent review article briefly and to the point, a ready-made chapter in a history textbook!

      I agree, the article is excellent, without clichés that got tired of it, thanks to the Authors!
      1. parma
        parma 28 May 2020 07: 35 New
        -2
        Quote: Crowe
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        An excellent review article briefly and to the point, a ready-made chapter in a history textbook!

        I agree, the article is excellent, without clichés that got tired of it, thanks to the Authors!

        The article replaces some cliches with others - that it was all Stalin’s cunning plan to scrub to Moscow ... and that the Germans had almost buried the Britons (although the battle for Britain had already ended and showed that the islands could not be completed by the Nazis) ... and that the German army was better armed - the BT-5 was not much inferior (and some models were superior) to the zoo that the Germans and the company had (and what other difficulties the Germans had with logistics for German, French, Czech and English tanks and other things on the balance sheet ... even on bk, not to mention everything else .. we then bt and t26 had one caliber) ...
        And the confusion really was (IMHO, of course) - maybe the leader understood that the generals themselves had set up nothing really know how (well, unless it’s nice to say how the enemy’s tail and mane are on foreign land now) and they still have to study and study ...
        1. Edward Vashchenko
          Edward Vashchenko 28 May 2020 08: 13 New
          20
          that the generals whom he himself set up really can’t do anything (well, unless it’s nice to say how the enemy’s tail and mane are on foreign land now) and they still have to study and study ...


          Oh, trouble with these generals! Shaposhnikov, Tymoshenko, Zhukov, Konev - not that, not so served, right from shooting courses to generals.
          But now, at the head of the army, and the Russian guard, and even the Ministry of Emergencies, there are continuous noble commanders and strategists, behind which there is more than one company: if necessary, we repeat.
          1. parma
            parma 28 May 2020 09: 06 New
            -2
            Quote: Edward Vashchenko
            that the generals whom he himself set up really can’t do anything (well, unless it’s nice to say how the enemy’s tail and mane are on foreign land now) and they still have to study and study ...


            Oh, trouble with these generals! Shaposhnikov, Tymoshenko, Zhukov, Konev - not that, not so served, right from shooting courses to generals.
            But now, at the head of the army, and the Russian guard, and even the Ministry of Emergencies, there are continuous noble commanders and strategists, behind which there is more than one company: if necessary, we repeat.

            Have you specially missed Budenny’s main grunt? A man who, before the war itself, considered cavalry not a forced measure, but a really combat-ready kind of army? What about dam blasting? By the way, later, in 1945, the second disruption (German, less catastrophic in terms of damage to the population) was put forward as a charge ...
            Regarding Zhukov, he is a very ambiguous person with many mistakes and achievements, who managed to learn how to fight along the way of the play (first he ordered the troops to counterattack on June 22, having no information at all about their condition, then the Smolensk operation, then the Rzhev operations of 1942, almost completely failed, By the way, the mentioned Konev participated in them), but that’s what I wrote in my first comment - not very talented and capable generals, but able to study ... if I were to Moscow from the border as to Paris, I’m not sure that we would have time to gain experience, but this does not plead with their later successes ...
            And as for what is happening now - I did not say anything about this, we kind of discussed the beginning of the Second World War ...
            1. Vladimir_2U
              Vladimir_2U 28 May 2020 09: 24 New
              12
              Quote: parma
              A man who, before the war itself, considered cavalry not a forced measure, but a really combat-ready kind of army?
              Well, the cavalry showed itself well, and you used one of the deadest stamps.
              1. Edward Vashchenko
                Edward Vashchenko 28 May 2020 09: 40 New
                12
                Well, the cavalry showed itself well, and you used one of the deadest stamps.

                Quite right, and they used it not only in the Red Army, but also the enemy.
                1. novel66
                  novel66 28 May 2020 10: 47 New
                  +5
                  it’s not good that they even forgot about Dovator’s raid ..
                2. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 28 May 2020 18: 03 New
                  +2
                  I read somewhere that the total number of horses during WWII in the Wehrmacht is about 5 million.
                  My respect, Edward!
                  1. Edward Vashchenko
                    Edward Vashchenko 30 May 2020 22: 02 New
                    +1
                    Anton,
                    mutually
                    hi
              2. Edward Vashchenko
                Edward Vashchenko 28 May 2020 09: 42 New
                -1
                By the way, G.K. Zhukov, the cavalryman himself and one of the best cavalrymen of the Red Army, in the 30s could compete with S.M. Budyonny.
                1. novel66
                  novel66 28 May 2020 10: 46 New
                  +6
                  it .. it is unlikely that he had no experience of commanding an equestrian army
                  1. Edward Vashchenko
                    Edward Vashchenko 28 May 2020 10: 48 New
                    0
                    it is unlikely

                    we are talking about the skill of the rider, not the commander of the cavalry army.
                    1. novel66
                      novel66 28 May 2020 10: 52 New
                      +3
                      if you compare the military path - the same is unlikely .. Zhukov dismissed many legends about himself
              3. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
                Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 28 May 2020 11: 28 New
                +6
                The Wehrmacht also had cavalry, however.
            2. Edward Vashchenko
              Edward Vashchenko 28 May 2020 09: 38 New
              +9
              And as for what is happening now - I did not say anything about this, we kind of discussed the beginning of the Second World War ...

              The meaning of the discussion of the Second World War or any other war, victory and defeat, wherever it may be, comes down to not committing “mistakes of the past”.
              Comparison is quite appropriate: take into account errors or not?
              As for the war, it all comes down to one, with whom we will go into battle, with S.M. A warden who could certainly not hold out for a new war, as well as the best marshals of France in 1940, but still was a successful commander, or with deviators who saw the army only from the VIP box at a parade or training camp?
            3. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 28 May 2020 13: 40 New
              +6
              Quote: parma
              Have you specially missed Budenny’s main grunt? A man who, before the war itself, considered cavalry not a forced measure, but a really combat-ready kind of army?

              ICH, was right. When used according to the Charter - as mobile infantry - the cavalry was a really combat-ready kind of troops.
              And in the pre-war cavalry division there is not much left of the usual “horse lava” - it was, rather, a light motorized division (half an infantry) with horses instead of infantry trucks, but with a tank regiment.
              You just don’t have to throw cavalry division on horseback to the enemy’s defense.
            4. gsev
              gsev 2 July 2020 13: 54 New
              0
              Quote: parma
              A man who, before the war itself, considered cavalry not a forced measure, but a really combat-ready kind of army?

              During the Vietnam-China War, the Chinese cavalrymen near Laityau were able to advance a distance of one and a half to two times greater than the Chinese motorized infantry in all other directions. In the summer offensive of 2, 1942 cavalry corps under the command of General Kryukov managed to liberate territory larger than 2 tank corps. The 5th Guards Cavalry Corps was able to raid the German rear within several months. Typically, the tank and mechanized formations of the Red Army that were surrounded were destroyed by the Germans in a few days.
          2. Fat
            Fat 28 May 2020 19: 35 New
            +2
            Quote: Edward Vashchenko
            that the generals whom he himself set up really can’t do anything (well, unless it’s nice to say how the enemy’s tail and mane are on foreign land now) and they still have to study and study ...


            Oh, trouble with these generals! Shaposhnikov, Tymoshenko, Zhukov, Konev - not that, not so served, right from shooting courses to generals.
            But now, at the head of the army, and the Russian guard, and even the Ministry of Emergencies, there are continuous noble commanders and strategists, behind which there is more than one company: if necessary, we repeat.

            Edward! I did not expect from you. The USSR and Persia had a treaty since 1922, since 1925, when Pahlavi became a shah, the treaty lasted, the Shah of the USSR did not interfere, as soon as ... So September 17, 1941 there were objections, there was no long wait. The point is not our negotiability, the fact is that the USSR became an ally of the United Kingdom. The USSR did not violate part of the agreement with Reza Pahlavi in ​​its right. The government of the USSR considered the "state" to the hostile allies of the USSR ...
            Total, nothing has changed in Iran, except for the suppression of Nazi activities .... and the occupation of the southern part of the country by the allied forces. Do you think there was no resistance? Nonsense! It was quite. All or almost all of the Iranian "Cossacks" are the former "Terskoye", but 20 days were enough, although there they expected more powerful resistance. Well ... And in this campaign Tolbukhin was the headquarters ... He, God forgive me .... Vaasche "Agreed" ....
            Everything is very chaotic. But this is for 1941. An unparalleled campaign. If at all you understand in military affairs.
            1. Edward Vashchenko
              Edward Vashchenko 30 May 2020 22: 07 New
              +1
              Sorry, I didn’t quite understand
              what's wrong?
              And what does Iran have to do with it, I know this topic, the excellent work of the Red Army, and what is wrong?
              1. Fat
                Fat 31 May 2020 11: 15 New
                0
                It's like that. And T26 and "lights" ....
          3. Fat
            Fat 29 May 2020 00: 47 New
            0
            Ministry of Emergency Situations, yes ... Repeat a couple of times, now they will be sentenced to life, for the Ministry of Emergency Situations there are no force-boosters. Edward, not the one hurt, not the Soviet "civil defense" for the elderly colonels. Service already done. And these are not only bureaucrats with reports on the number of equivalent PRUs in the area.
          4. Fat
            Fat 29 May 2020 16: 03 New
            0
            Quote: Edward Vashchenko
            if necessary, we repeat.

            To be honest, a bad banter, not for you ....
        2. Krasnoyarsk
          Krasnoyarsk 28 May 2020 09: 17 New
          +9
          Quote: parma
          ... the zoo that the Germans and the company had (and after all, what difficulties did the Germans have with logistics for German, French, Czech and English tanks and other good things on the balance sheet ... even in BC, not to mention everything

          Nonsense! France has successfully produced both BK and repair kits for tanks located in the Wehrmacht. About Czech and do not have to say. And for the Aglitsky many BCs and it’s not necessary - they were in the training units of the Wehrmacht.
          Quote: parma
          And the confusion really was

          Personally observed or OBS? I even guess what surnames these OBS have.
          The article is wonderful, despite the fact that it does not bring anything new to me. I am even pleasantly surprised that she appeared on the pages of VO. After articles about hunger and other pseudo-historical ...
          1. parma
            parma 28 May 2020 09: 33 New
            -4
            Quote: Krasnoyarsk
            Nonsense! France has successfully produced both BK and repair kits for tanks located in the Wehrmacht. About Czech and do not have to say. And for the Aglitsky many BCs and it’s not necessary - they were in the training units of the Wehrmacht.

            I did not talk about a shortage or production problems, I talked about LOGISTICS! To release a small part / bk, it / it must be brought across Europe to the necessary part (which maintains the bd and is always moving), then you need to have a specially trained person to attach this part! And if someone from the crew also died, you still need to train him for this technique (should the same water mech be able to carry out minimal field repairs, and anti-aircraft gunner or artilleryman? And the pilot? Although yes, there were very few captured aircraft used) ...
            Quote: Krasnoyarsk
            Personally observed or OBS? I even guess what surnames these OBS have.
            The article is wonderful, despite the fact that it does not bring anything new to me. I am even pleasantly surprised that she appeared on the pages of VO. After articles about hunger and other pseudo-historical ...

            Regarding confusion - purely my opinion ... for if Comrade. Stalin was not taken aback at the loss of almost the entire army (and those parts that survived lost their combat effectiveness and control), then this really was his cunning plan ... only not how to come to victory, but how to arrange the genocide of his own people (though then all the nonsense about deliberately arranged famine, the gulag and the mulens of the executed look like the truth)
            1. Krasnoyarsk
              Krasnoyarsk 28 May 2020 10: 20 New
              +1
              Quote: parma
              I did not talk about shortages or production problems

              Yes, your song is about nothing at all.
              Quote: parma

              Regarding confusion - purely my opinion ... for if Comrade. Stalin was not taken aback by the loss of almost the entire army (and those parts that

              I did not understand - was he so confused or not confused? Do you have 2 * 2 = 7?
              Do you have any imaginative thinking? How can you imagine the practical, in your words, death of an entire army overnight? Here she was and she was gone. AND? Who is at war with the German? You need to return to school, preferably in grade 3.
              1. parma
                parma 28 May 2020 12: 03 New
                0
                Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                Yes, your song is about nothing at all.

                Once again, does the word logistics say anything? Do you represent the volume of paperwork supplies for a multi-million army, in which only tanks with a dozen models (models, not modifications)?
                Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                I did not understand - was he so confused or not confused? Do you have 2 * 2 = 7?
                Do you have any imaginative thinking? How can you imagine the practical, in your words, death of an entire army overnight? Here she was and she was gone. AND? Who is at war with the German? You need to return to school, preferably in grade 3.

                The loss of the army and its death are completely different things. The soldiers fought in separate groups, units, and sometimes even formations, but the combat-ready army as such did not disappear in a month ... and taking into account the pre-war plans (according to them, Zhukov, issue the 22nd order at once on the 2nd and go on to defeat the Germans. ..As a result, over the next week, units directly from the march went on the attack, without the support of artillery and aircraft, often without fuel and bk ... there were so many abandoned tanks without fuel that the Wehrmacht did not even collect it ... after that Zhukov even removed from the post of chief of staff) for a quick victory by hordes of "jumping" tanks of the BT series it was all terrible ...
                PS: maybe you should duplicate primary education if you cannot understand the simplest sentence? For one thing and respect with the manners of the interlocutor to learn ...
                1. Alexey RA
                  Alexey RA 28 May 2020 13: 59 New
                  +3
                  Quote: parma
                  Do you represent the volume of paperwork supplies for a multi-million army, in which only tanks with a dozen models (models, not modifications)?

                  Ahem ... the USSR could have seven tank models in one mechanized corps. So we had no less problems - even two-tower T-26s were in service.
                  Quote: parma
                  as a result, over the next week, units directly from the march went on the attack, without the support of artillery and aircraft, often without fuel and ammunition ...

                  But what, the organization of the march of units and formations should be personally engaged in the NHS? wink
                  There is a great example of LVO - when two divisions of one mechanized corps advanced on the Karelian Isthmus. Materiel - 1933-1937 release + refurbished wounded with Finnish. One division lost a third of its equipment on the march and returned it to service for a long time. Another was able to organize SPAM, a closure service and other statutory little things - and came to the concentration area with minimal technical losses, and they dragged it in a couple of days.
                  If you are talking about the South-West Division, then the mess there is the work of the front command and the army commanders, who began to interpret the order of the NHS in their own way.
                  1. Fat
                    Fat 28 May 2020 21: 03 New
                    0
                    There were only light tanks and tankers with a landing. Against cavalry with few TCP.
                    There was no resistance? Lies! Crumpled. It was still a battle. Where our headquarters knew the whole alignment. Modern weapons and the change of ruler in time ensured the neutrality of the hostile regime.
              2. Fat
                Fat 29 May 2020 17: 30 New
                0
                wassat
                Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                Quote: parma
                I did not talk about shortages or production problems

                Yes, your song is about nothing at all.
                Quote: parma

                Regarding confusion - purely my opinion ... for if Comrade. Stalin was not taken aback by the loss of almost the entire army (and those parts that

                I did not understand - was he so confused or not confused? Do you have 2 * 2 = 7?
                Do you have any imaginative thinking? How can you imagine the practical, in your words, death of an entire army overnight? Here she was and she was gone. AND? Who is at war with the German? You need to return to school, preferably in grade 3.

                I guys stuffed other categories. Politics in the 3 clown class. Your level is right from Holland ... Right from the shore and skeleton are whitened with cloth in the mix ... Sometimes pieces of iron ....
                This ... The vicinity of Dunkirk ... City of death ... Such a point ...
                So that imagination is not only on the western front.
                So what about 2x2 ....? Sometimes not just 2x2 but also 1 + 1 ... or the future family ... Or conspiracy to rob ... crying
                1. Krasnoyarsk
                  Krasnoyarsk 29 May 2020 18: 06 New
                  0
                  Quote: Thick

                  I guys stuffed other categories. Politics in the 3 clown class. Your level is right from Holland ... Right from the shore and skeleton are whitened with cloth in the mix ... Sometimes pieces of iron ....
                  This ... The vicinity of Dunkirk ... City of death ... Such a point ...
                  So that imagination is not only on the western front.
                  So what about 2x2 ....? Sometimes not just 2x2 but also 1 + 1 ... or the future family ... Or conspiracy to rob ...

                  Random, uncontrolled outburst of twilight consciousness ?????
                  1. Fat
                    Fat 29 May 2020 21: 38 New
                    0
                    Yes you are right. Britain in all colonies left its position behind the position and firmly in Africa clung to the Suez Canal. Britain managed to get a rock with a gibo altar .... All the Mediterranean ..
                    Look ... You can let the transports, but where? To the Persian Gulf. The task needs a loyal Iran. And this government is pro-German. * good guys should take everything in hand. Yes! They went and took the whole south of Iran. The USSR, faithful to the agreement of 1921 - 1922, provided the shah with renown ....
                    Later, the Allies insisted on the challenger Mohamed Reza Pahlavi, the eldest son of the insurgent, Shah Reza Pahlavi ...
                    ABOUT! ; But I wanted to briefly!
                    Vobschem so week 2 x fur. divisions with the most modern weapons against the division of the Iranian-Tkr Cossacks ...
                    Goals -
                    Communication centers, communication, logistics. Task to provide
                    southern safe supply route for Lend Lease ...
                    So T26 entered Teggeran.
                    Ataman - Khan Reze became a Shah in 1925 merged under the pressure of the Soviet-Finnish British occupiers.
                    This is brief, very .... So the Allied countries got the Southern Corridor
                  2. Fat
                    Fat 31 May 2020 11: 48 New
                    0
                    Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                    Quote: Thick

                    I guys stuffed other categories. Politics in the 3 clown class. Your level is right from Holland ... Right from the shore and skeleton are whitened with cloth in the mix ... Sometimes pieces of iron ....
                    This ... The vicinity of Dunkirk ... City of death ... Such a point ...
                    So that imagination is not only on the western front.
                    So what about 2x2 ....? Sometimes not just 2x2 but also 1 + 1 ... or the future family ... Or conspiracy to rob ...

                    Random, uncontrolled outburst of twilight consciousness ?????

                    Yes!
                    So what!?
                    We all felt better !?
                    When you take a quote, refer ..
                    I don’t just know this author ... I have a glitch, maybe I quote myself ...
            2. Fat
              Fat 31 May 2020 11: 08 New
              0
              There is much more to it.
              Of miscellaneous
              Note the USSR did not have any
              full military leadership until November 41 .... SVKK ... Later ... And the order was later ... Although the millions of losses of trained soldiers .... This story does not know. Horseradish with technology ... But they overcame! Strong people were found ... My father is one of those ... Stalingrad October ....
            3. Fat
              Fat 31 May 2020 12: 20 New
              0
              Quote: parma
              to arrange the genocide of their own people (though then all the nonsense about the deliberately arranged famine, the gulag and the mulen

              Well, not the tundra! You can’t do such nasty things unnoticed. What does it look like?
              Lazh looks
            4. Fat
              Fat 31 May 2020 12: 39 New
              0
              Only looks. Well, there were not so many people in the Soviet Socialist Republic. We lost about 4.5 million children in the military .... The loss of people in the occupation cannot be estimated. Where did tsifir come from? 20+
              From Khrushchev! She took on some Milon innocent.
              1. podymych
                1 June 2020 20: 18 New
                0
                Tolstoy (Pestrikov Andrei Borisovich) Yesterday, 12:39 NEW
                Andrei, I absolutely agree with you. Demography refutes all data on the extent of the Stalinist repressions and on losses in the war.
                But it does not refute the other - the fact that these Nazi creatures, as well as the Magyars and the unfortunate Italians, Czechs, Poles, the Spaniard blue division (not just so clearly named) and even the French, were doing on our land. So for reference - the last battalion that fought for the Reich Chancellery - these were French Nazi fanatics
            5. Fat
              Fat 31 May 2020 13: 35 New
              0
              You u
              Scha sinususili ... Discard the famine and drink hundreds of millions .. Innocent ..
              To look true the whole ministry budget was eating
              1. Fat
                Fat 31 May 2020 13: 39 New
                0
                And their
                Uh, was it only?
        3. ccsr
          ccsr 28 May 2020 12: 47 New
          +8
          Quote: parma
          The article replaces some cliches with others - that it was all Stalin’s cunning plan, to drape to Moscow ...

          Nobody was going to scoop, but the construction of the third line of Rzhev-Vyazma URs was planned in May 1941 with the completion of construction in 1942, although the construction was not started due to the sharply changed situation on the western border. There is a card signed by Zhukov - it is available on the network.
          Quote: parma
          the zoo that the Germans and the company had (and after all, what difficulties did the Germans have with logistics for German, French, Czech and English tanks and other things on balance.

          At the beginning of the war, the use of captured equipment was not yet large-scale, so it was mainly located on the Western Front and was used for training purposes and for manning the cover units of airfields, ports and other places where the Germans could expect allied landing.
          Quote: parma
          But the confusion really was (IMHO, of course) - maybe the leader understood that the generals himself put nothing really know how

          Because of their “inability”, in August they completely thwarted all the plans for the blitz krieg, and even Halder noted in the diaries huge losses and a breakdown in the timing of the Wehrmacht advance. And the battle of Smolensk showed that it was not so bad that we fought even in the first months of the war, although I do not deny that our commanders lacked experience - we did not train in Europe, unlike the Wehrmacht.
          1. parma
            parma 28 May 2020 13: 52 New
            0
            Quote: ccsr
            Quote: parma
            The article replaces some cliches with others - that it was all Stalin’s cunning plan, to drape to Moscow ...

            Nobody was going to scoop, but the construction of the third line of Rzhev-Vyazma URs was planned in May 1941 with the completion of construction in 1942, although the construction was not started due to the sharply changed situation on the western border. There is a card signed by Zhukov - it is available on the network.
            Quote: parma
            the zoo that the Germans and the company had (and after all, what difficulties did the Germans have with logistics for German, French, Czech and English tanks and other things on balance.

            At the beginning of the war, the use of captured equipment was not yet large-scale, so it was mainly located on the Western Front and was used for training purposes and for manning the cover units of airfields, ports and other places where the Germans could expect allied landing.
            Quote: parma
            But the confusion really was (IMHO, of course) - maybe the leader understood that the generals himself put nothing really know how

            Because of their “inability”, in August they completely thwarted all the plans for the blitz krieg, and even Halder noted in the diaries huge losses and a breakdown in the timing of the Wehrmacht advance. And the battle of Smolensk showed that it was not so bad that we fought even in the first months of the war, although I do not deny that our commanders lacked experience - we did not train in Europe, unlike the Wehrmacht.

            But there was experience both in battles with Japan and in battles with Finland, as an indicator of the RKKA’s mistakenly chosen strategy .. and experience in battles in Spain (which nobody really really took into account) as personal experience of encountering Wehrmacht tactics ... about an example of Poland’s defeats, France and the rest of Europe ... the analysis and decisions made did not really affect the tactics and strategies of the Red Army ...
            The article mentioned in the article is just another set of clichés (only this time from Stalin’s admirers) ... the person was in a very predictable state before his speech, after such a startling start of the war ... it was from here and attempts to find out the conditions of surrender through the Bulgarians (just like an attempt understand the enemy’s goals, and not surrender), and the leader’s silence personally ... there’s no need to justify him as generals in such a bulk of the war (what the authors do. Stalin has never been denied, and this is not considered, he went to the restroom ), we must remember that despite not all the problems, he did not give up and did not back down, as in 1917, 1991 and 1999 with the words "I'm tired, I'm leaving" ...
            1. ccsr
              ccsr 28 May 2020 14: 15 New
              +2
              Quote: parma
              But there was experience in the battles with Japan and in the battles with Finland, as an indicator of the wrong strategy of the Red Army

              Compare the number of troops used in these wars with the number of troops that entered the war on June 22, and then you will understand that our commanders did not have experience of mass battles at all.
              Quote: parma
              The article mentioned is just another set of clichés (only this time from Stalin’s fans).

              Will you try to refute them, or admit that this is true? The article is written for the general reader, and is not a research paper, because This is pure journalism. What could be the claim?
              Quote: parma
              it is from here and attempts through the Bulgarians to find out the conditions of surrender (just like an attempt to understand the enemy’s goals, and not give up)

              This is an unproven fact, and the whole version is based only on a note by Sudoplatov, which was written when he was close to execution.
              Quote: parma
              and the silence of the leader himself ... no need to justify now

              But why justify it if it was not his duty to the country? He ordered Molotov to speak, and that was enough on the first day of the war to announce mobilization. To build on this fact versions of what was happening in the Kremlin is at least stupid, especially since there are memoirs of different people describing this.
            2. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 29 May 2020 15: 41 New
              0
              Quote: parma
              But there was experience both in battles with Japan and in battles with Finland, as an indicator of the wrongly chosen strategy of the Red Army.

              You can immediately forget about the Japanese experience - on Khalkhin Gol, parts of the eastern districts fought, which after the fighting remained in the east.
              But the experience of fighting with Finland was actively mastered in the troops - even in Transcaucasia they practiced the assault on SD in a wooded and swampy area (one of the probable opponents on the theater of operations found such SDs - one commander of the district knows). laughing
          2. Fat
            Fat 31 May 2020 13: 48 New
            0
            Thank. And we think where the commanders disappeared right up to the age of 43 .. Those younger ones threw out the younger ones ... Those and ...
      2. Basil50
        Basil50 28 May 2020 07: 44 New
        +8
        The authors briefly talk about ideological and social disagreements as the basis of the * struggle * of Europe against the SOVIET UNION.
        Under Napoleon, what only about the RUSSIAN EMPIRE was not written or painted in the European media. There was everything that they could come up with from the * savagery * of the peoples of RUSSIA to indecent jokes about the tsar, and cartoons .................. about Alexander and about the nobles.
        Even more frank * ....... on the fan * was thrown in Europe during the war in the Crimea and again about * savagery * and indecent jokes about the tsar and about the nobles. At the same time, both the nobles and the king himself were close relatives of the nobles and reigning houses in Europe.
        It was very revealing in Europe that they wrote about the RUSSIAN EMPIRE during WWII, including in France and England, and this is about their * allies *. And in Germany what was written and painted ouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu. This is despite the fact that Nikolai and William with their close associates were close relatives.
        So the thesis about * ideological disagreements * can only be accepted if ideology takes the desire of Europe to seize RUSSIA as a colony.
        In Europe, of course, there are disagreements between those who want to make a colony from RUSSIA ONLY for themselves and those who put together a * coalition * to divide RUSSIA into * many small colonies *.
    2. vvvjak
      vvvjak 28 May 2020 08: 33 New
      11
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      But as you know, one who does nothing is not mistaken.

      They tried to at least somehow resist fascism. And the team of the “beacon of democracy” at that time “zigzag” at the Olympics in Berlin.
      1. Dr. Frankenstucker
        Dr. Frankenstucker 28 May 2020 11: 28 New
        -9
        And the team of the “beacon of democracy” at that time “zigzag” at the Olympics in Berlin.


        The USSR, in fact, earned extra money in this war. I hope it’s not a secret for you that all supplies of military materials were paid for by two-thirds of the Spanish gold reserves exported from Cartagena? It was Franco who fought in installments from Mussolini and Hitler, and the Republicans paid for help, it was good.
        And one should not forget about 30 volunteers in the composition of the inter-brigades and the militias of the anarchists.
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 28 May 2020 11: 37 New
          +6
          Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
          The USSR, in fact, earned extra money in this war

          I hope you will not argue that the USSR helped the legitimately elected government of Spain for the sake of profit?
          1. Dr. Frankenstucker
            Dr. Frankenstucker 28 May 2020 12: 28 New
            -9
            but I didn’t say that only for the sake of profit. The USSR and Germany had the same goals "on different sides" - testing equipment, hardening personnel, and testing military specialists in real combat. Well, the USSR, of course, tried to streamline the mess of the Spanish leftists with its specific methods. I’m not saying that the USSR got involved in the war because of a 3% commission, although it amounted to $ 15 million, plus the $ 51 million requested for transporting a gold coin to Gokhran. Rumors that the Soviets speculatively overvalued the exchange rate by 40% are to be, but perhaps this is only insinuations. At least everyone involved in operations with Spanish gold, starting with the Soviet ambassador and ending with the NKF officials, were shot on time.
            1. vvvjak
              vvvjak 28 May 2020 12: 49 New
              +2
              Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
              At least everyone involved in operations with Spanish gold, starting with the Soviet ambassador and ending with the NKF officials, were shot on time.

              For example, Alexander Orlov (real name Leiba Leizerovich Feldbin) even wrote a book about this when he “dumped” to the west.
              1. Dr. Frankenstucker
                Dr. Frankenstucker 28 May 2020 13: 10 New
                -5
                I did not mean an operation to export gold, but about operations to dispose of gold, when it was already in Gokhran)
              2. Vladimir_2U
                Vladimir_2U 29 May 2020 02: 47 New
                0
                Quote: vvvjak
                For example, Alexander Orlov (real name Leiba Leizerovich Feldbin) even wrote a book about this when he “dumped” to the west.

                This is such a form of execution! There was execution without correspondence, there were ten years of execution and then execution with subsequent memoirs! laughing
                1. Dr. Frankenstucker
                  Dr. Frankenstucker 29 May 2020 14: 59 New
                  -1
                  try to piss off is understandable. Under "everyone", I considered the ambassador to Spain, the trade representative and four NKF officials shot in 1938. Orlov escaped the wall, as you know, very prudently escaping with $ 60K seized from the cash register.
                  1. Vladimir_2U
                    Vladimir_2U 30 May 2020 05: 56 New
                    0
                    Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
                    try to piss off is understandable

                    And in my opinion it turned out not bad, in the light of constant lies both about the quantity and the fate of the "innocently represerted".
                    Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
                    as you know, very prudently escaped with $ 60K seized from the cash register
                    Cho something flickered, but what prevented “Orlov” simply topple over, and not to write any bad stuff as well?
                    1. Dr. Frankenstucker
                      Dr. Frankenstucker 30 May 2020 10: 55 New
                      -1
                      lies about both the quantity and the fate of "innocently repressed".


                      and I, it seems, did not address the issue of the lawfulness or injustice of the sentences. I am not interested in the topic of "innocently repressed", this is your hobby, the Stalinists. Well, and the liberals, respectively.

                      and not to write yet all bad?


                      and why, in fact, a person with such a colorful biography and not write ??
                      much less interesting personalities noted their writings, no?
                      and the value of memoirs in general is a separate issue.
        2. vvvjak
          vvvjak 28 May 2020 11: 40 New
          +2
          Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
          I hope it’s not a secret for you that all supplies of military materials were paid for by two-thirds of the Spanish gold reserves exported from Cartagena?

          If we take it officially, then the Spanish authorities transferred the USSR gold for storage.
          1. Dr. Frankenstucker
            Dr. Frankenstucker 28 May 2020 12: 30 New
            -3
            then the Spanish authorities transferred the USSR gold for storage.


            and I did not state the opposite. I said that military supplies were paid out of this gold.
            1. ccsr
              ccsr 29 May 2020 11: 51 New
              0
              Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
              I said that military supplies were paid out of this gold.

              Do you want us to just pass on
              no less than 300 I-16 fighters. Tanks and other weapons were also supplied. In total, up to 1000 aircraft and tanks, 1,5 thousand guns, 20 thousand machine guns, half a million rifles were delivered.
              And our ships perished there.
              Moreover, 17 more orphanages were built for children evacuated from Spain during the war, where they were on state security.
              Only fifteen years have passed since our Civil ended, so we could not give gifts to anyone at that time. What could be the claim against our authorities if Western countries refused to help Spain, even for gold.
              1. Dr. Frankenstucker
                Dr. Frankenstucker 29 May 2020 12: 32 New
                -1
                Do you want us to just pass on


                I don’t want anything, I stated a fact - the USSR was in a much better position, having Spanish gold in Gokhran. In comparison with the same Germans and Italians, who supplied the bankrupt Franco on credit. And that’s it, don’t look in my comment for secret meanings to your taste.

                Only fifteen years have passed since our Civil ended


                so fifteen years ago, and Germany was half-dead. And in Italy, the Spanish epic cost one annual budget of the country.
    3. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk 28 May 2020 09: 03 New
      +6
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      But as you know, one who does nothing is not mistaken.

      = ... that Moscow began to fight against German Nazism and Italian fascism already in Spain, although it is very peculiar and with many mistakes =
      But I wonder - what were the mistakes, by whom and when did they (some actions of the USSR) be recognized as mistakes?
    4. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
      Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 28 May 2020 11: 23 New
      +1
      Because of the internal struggle in the CPSU (b), the war in Spain was lost by us, although we were doomed to success there! Therefore, Comrade Trotsky correctly received an ice ax into the skull (later), and his comrades-in-arms and colleagues (earlier) - otherwise in the summer of 1941 we could get such a “fifth column” that nobody dreamed of ...
      1. Dr. Frankenstucker
        Dr. Frankenstucker 28 May 2020 12: 42 New
        -4
        the war in Spain was lost by us, although we were doomed to success there!


        were not "doomed". And who, in fact, are "we"? 2000 Soviet military experts or 30 000 members of inter-brigades?
        1. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
          Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 28 May 2020 13: 27 New
          0
          And why do not you want to see the army of Republican Spain proper? Why do you at the front see only 32 thousand inter-brigade + our (business trip) ??? This is a one-sided look.
          1. Dr. Frankenstucker
            Dr. Frankenstucker 28 May 2020 14: 55 New
            -3
            So who do you mean by "we"?
            1. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
              Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 28 May 2020 16: 18 New
              0
              USSR, and who else?!?
              1. Dr. Frankenstucker
                Dr. Frankenstucker 28 May 2020 16: 20 New
                -3
                Interesting. USSR winning a foreign civil war. Two thousand military experts.
                Brilliant.
                1. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
                  Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 28 May 2020 16: 51 New
                  -1
                  I repeat: we helped the Republicans! And, excuse me, that the whole Red Army needs to be driven there or what? And two thousand is not bad.
                  1. Dr. Frankenstucker
                    Dr. Frankenstucker 28 May 2020 17: 04 New
                    -2
                    we helped the republicans!


                    why then write the USSR in the "five minutes winners" in the civil war?
                    Strange - the Spaniards fought with each other, and it turned out that the USSR was doomed to victory, which simply “helped”.
                    Interesting logic.
                    1. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
                      Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 29 May 2020 09: 46 New
                      -1
                      Sorry, did you study at a Soviet school or what? Remember Comrade Trotsky? And now remember in how many countries, since 1918, we "helped"! I can easily offhand give a list of countries where we were, where we were just, and where we were doomed to success. By the way, why only since 1918, I ask myself a question! And before that, RI solved its tasks in the necessary vital regions of the world. Take the same famous "Dardanelles Operation" - and it was also doomed to success !!! ... / Yes, if I were an NSS at Nicholas II, I would have slashed with a blow to the Bosphorus, and then spreading left and right to Greece and the north of Iran, but no further, I would have helped the Entente brothers. After that, Istanbul would become an ordinary regional center, Lord, excuse me, the provincial center of the country and we would go to Antalya, as in Yalta, Sochi or Jurmala. /
                      So the logic is pretty simple. And you, I see a desire only to argue with me and no more. Okay, have a good Friday!
                    2. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
                      Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 29 May 2020 09: 54 New
                      -1
                      In Spain, in fact, the USSR and the Reich with assistants already fought. Our future brothers in the Anti-Hitler coalition, as usual, were waiting and watching, selling weapons to both Franco and the Republicans illegally (or ours were bought from them using intermediary firms). Even Franco himself did not have confidence in victory - read his memoirs!
    5. Ramzaj99
      Ramzaj99 28 May 2020 17: 24 New
      +1
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      An excellent review article briefly and to the point, a ready-made chapter in a history textbook!

      Yeah, just an alternative story .....
      With nonsense about substantial deliveries in the 41st, and nonsense deliveries comparable to domestic production ......
    6. Fat
      Fat 28 May 2020 18: 07 New
      -1
      Article for suckers. Your comments are also not weighted. The article itself is a mixture of intentional "mistakes"
      when Khan Reze on the ancient Persian throne was replaced by his son Mohammed Reza Pahlavi.
      It turns out that the contract of the USSR with Iran was concluded by someone who was not Pahlavi
      Reza Shah Pahlavi - the thirty-fourth shah of Iran from 1925 to 1941 from the Pahlavi dynasty. His son Mohammed Reza Pahlavi 35 and the last shah of Iran from 1941 to 1979 ...
      By the time the USSR was formed in 1922, an agreement was concluded
      The Soviet-Iranian friendship treaty is a bilateral agreement concluded between the RSFSR and Persia in Moscow on February 26, 1921.
      There was no Iranian shah or the USSR at that moment.
      Shah Reza was just getting ready to become a Shah.
  2. Nikolai Miracles
    Nikolai Miracles 28 May 2020 06: 18 New
    -4
    49% of Lend-Lease passed through Vladivostok, this was the main route for the delivery of goods of the USSR even before Lend-Lease, that is, with immediate payment, partially on credit. 1 tons of Molotov cocktail purchased in England were delivered through the USA and Vladivostok to the battle for Moscow.
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 28 May 2020 06: 44 New
      10
      Quote: Nikolai Chudov
      1 tons of Molotov cocktail purchased in England were delivered through the USA and Vladivostok
      What a news! In the USSR, they couldn’t put the incendiary mixture into bottles and bottle them, in your opinion? Something extremely deceptive information.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 28 May 2020 07: 07 New
        -2
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        In the USSR they couldn’t pull the incendiary mixture and bottle it,

        They could add “chemistry” to incendiary mixtures, a component that we didn’t make .... whatever Velcro thickener, like latex. Different mixtures were made, simple and complex.
        We just admit that there was material help ... and it was not because the Western allies loved the USSR, it was just that the USSR really was their last hope for survival, for those from the islands, for sure.
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 28 May 2020 07: 20 New
          +6
          Quote: rocket757
          In the incendiary mixture could add "chemistry"

          And they might not have added, but the component and the Molotov cocktail are far from the same thing, not to mention the fact that we didn’t use such a name then.
          Quote: rocket757
          Different mixtures were made, simple and complex
          Molotov cocktail, in principle, should be neither complicated nor expensive.
          Quote: rocket757
          We just admit that the help, material was
          I absolutely agree.
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 28 May 2020 07: 29 New
            +5
            KS liquids (a mixture of phosphorus and sulfur) and BGS (benzene head and phosphorus). Others were filled with flammable mixtures, representing a “hodgepodge” of aviation gasoline, kerosene and naphtha, thickened with oils or a special curing powder. Unlike the predecessors filled with a homogeneous liquid, the Soviet samples had every right to be called "cocktails."

            The mixtures were different ... industrial production and homemade.
            1. Vladimir_2U
              Vladimir_2U 28 May 2020 07: 34 New
              +6
              Which of these was an expensive shortage and shipped from England? Except, possibly, phosphorus. Well, to throw expensive natural latex into incendiary mixtures for mobilization weapons in the USSR would not.
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 28 May 2020 07: 49 New
                +2
                For military purposes, if there is no adequate replacement, they could, all the more it should be there ... then, it could be an artificial substitute. But, I expressed the VERSION, and did not claim that it was just that.
                Yes, in napalm / aviation headquarters. latex / substitute mixture was added for stickiness and creep.
                The main thing is not to deny the truth, that is, the allies provided material assistance, and at first it was in the subject! Then, when the USSR industry earned on a military schedule, many things could be abandoned, but not everything ... they did not refuse and they did the right thing, in general.
      2. Nikolai Miracles
        Nikolai Miracles 28 May 2020 17: 05 New
        +1
        In England there was industrial production of incendiary mixture, in the USSR most of the powder and chemical plants were located in the territories lost at the beginning of the war.
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 29 May 2020 04: 19 New
          0
          Are you persisting on the basis of this craft? So in it frank nonsense is enough except for nonsense about "cocktails"
          Since the beginning of the Soviet-German war, Soviet troops made bottles on their own and used occasionally, and since July 1941, industrial production of incendiary mixtures was established according to a previously developed recipe.

          https://wwii.space/zazhigatelnyie-zaryadyi-sssr/
          And there are plenty of such links, and examples of your version, except in this very low-quality film, are not visible.
          1. Nikolai Miracles
            Nikolai Miracles 31 May 2020 07: 49 New
            0
            Sea routes
    2. Free wind
      Free wind 28 May 2020 07: 50 New
      +8
      Molotov cocktail, ordinary gasoline with a thickener, usually with bitumen, the bottle was shut up with a rag and set on fire before use. There were chemical arsonists, but they were afraid, they were very dangerous. But with Poland, I can’t know, but the Poles fought with the Germans, maybe it was worth helping them. In any case, our grandfathers won!
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 28 May 2020 08: 10 New
        +2
        Quote: Free Wind
        But with Poland, I can’t know, but the Poles fought with the Germans, maybe it was worth helping them.

        If you look at the documents, the USSR proposed an alliance against the aggression of the Reich to ALL, Poles, incl. ....
        What do you think, did the Polish leadership respond to this proposal ... others, by the way, too?
        Hence the question - Who was there to help?
  3. Olgovich
    Olgovich 28 May 2020 08: 06 New
    -11
    whether there was more harm or benefit from the pact in terms of preparing for war. Almost inevitable, given the notorious Hitlerite Drang nach Osten.


    the benefit was that they stipulated that in the event of German aggression against Poland, Germany would stop 200 km west of our borders — an absolutely sound decision.

    FRIENDSHIP treaty with the Nazis is harmful - you can’t be friends with the Nazis even in words

    In May 1940, it was necessary to hit the aggressor from the rear and save yourself from June 1941 г

    By the way, from this point of view it would be nice to consider the tragic "winter war" with Finland,

    Who said that Finland (with its caricature army of 30 thousand people) would not be neutral in 41 g (like its neighbor Sweden) if it were not for the Winter War? But the dangerous beast got for sure!

    But Russian Bessarabia was returned, rightly, because it was never recognized by Romania

    The falsifications were not the subject of “Stalin did not know,” or rather, “did not want to acknowledge,” became very common in the USSR and then in the Russian Federation from the second half of the 80s, when a particularly active treatment of “union consciousness” began. However, they are often substantively refuted by Western media.

    The fact that the troops were taken absolutely by surprise, in a sky-ready state, the aircraft were destroyed at ... airfields, the units were without artillery (at the training camps), the huge warehouses at the borders and were seized, that ALL STRATEGIC BRIDGES were seized WHOLE, the roads were not mined and the Germans poured over them at a speed of 70 km / day, is that all ... falsification?

    about Stalin’s appeal on July 3: let the authors imagine that a terrible war has begun, the loss of territories, and neither today, nor tomorrow, nor in a week, nor in 10 days, the leader ... does not say a word, is silent!
    to real respect then power - people's, for all its excesses and tragic mistakes, there is still no question.

    Where does this definition come from - "folk"?

    In the same Politburo, no one ever, anywhere at work, did not work: everyone, right away, began their career with ... leadership and immediately ... with the state ..

    People do this power never choose anywhere because there were no popular elections since November 1917.

    And even if she had told the people the TRUTH about the millions who died of starvation as a result of her reign, the millions exiled, the hundreds of thousands who were shot during the year 37-38 (this has never happened in Russia, and in the world too!), We can only guess , 0,01% go 0,001% votes in the current election. she would have scored.

    In the war, the people supported the government because it uncompromisingly defended the country.
    1. Slavutich
      Slavutich 28 May 2020 08: 33 New
      14
      In May 1940, it was necessary to hit the aggressor from the rear and save themselves from June 1941

      Yes, this is precisely your strategic talent that was missing in the 40s! And all subsequent years to this day -
      "How to control the universe without attracting the attention of orderlies."
    2. strannik1985
      strannik1985 28 May 2020 08: 42 New
      +8
      In May 1940, it was necessary to hit the aggressor from the rear and save themselves from June 1941

      Churchill will say thanks, the so-called the allies will sit in the trenches for a couple of years, and then we will get the Anglo - French - German front against the USSR, one hope for the USA, they are not interested in strengthening the "allies".
      Who said that Finland (with its caricature army of 30 thousand people) would not be neutral in 41 g (like its neighbor Sweden) if it were not for the Winter War?

      History - two wars in which Finns were aggressors, Finnish - Estonian - Swedish secret military cooperation (blockade of the Gulf of Finland), military doctrine, or rather one of its variants, VK-1, involves participation in a coalition war against the USSR.
      The fact that the troops were taken absolutely by surprise

      To be ready you have to attack wink
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 28 May 2020 11: 41 New
        -13
        Quote: strannik1985
        we get the Anglo - Franco - German front against the USSR,

        yeah, and why didn’t we get the Anglo-German front in June 41? And, as it were, the other way around (look at the article)?
        Quote: strannik1985
        History - two wars in which the Finns were the aggressors

        they believe the opposite. freed their land.

        The foreign tourist, recognizing the independence of Finland, stipulated in advanceits borders? No? And what questions?

        Army with 30 "tanks" PMV - of course, was a "dangerous" aggressor lol
        1. strannik1985
          strannik1985 28 May 2020 11: 57 New
          +7
          yeah, and why didn’t we get the Anglo-German front in June 41?

          And why, if the Germans themselves are doing fine?
          they believe the opposite. freed their land

          And they will be considered in the same way in 1941.
          Army with 30 "tanks" PMV - of course, was a "dangerous" aggressor

          Up to 15 infantry divisions against 13 infantry (September 1940) Northern Front.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 28 May 2020 12: 24 New
            -5
            Quote: strannik1985
            And why, if the Germans themselves are doing fine?

            And then, why and
            Quote: strannik1985
            Anglo - Franco - German front against the USSR,
            Quote: strannik1985
            And they will be considered in the same way in 1941

            1920 and 1941 are different, after all, years: the USSR 41g with tens of thousands of tanks against 30 tanks of the Finns is not any RSFSR of 1920
            Quote: strannik1985
            Up to 15 infantry divisions against 13 infantry (September 1940) Northern Front.

            Why September 1940, and not Spring 1939?
            In the USSR ... only 13 divisions?
            1. strannik1985
              strannik1985 28 May 2020 12: 49 New
              +5
              And then, why and

              Why would a year in 1944 end the war through a conspiracy with the assassination of Hitler or an attack on Germany?
              1920 and 1941 are different, after all, years

              Question to the Finnish General Staff.
              In the USSR ... only 13 divisions?

              Until 16 SD / GDM by September 1939, if the Narva (Estonia) direction is completely exposed.
              Of these, there are 5 on Karpereisheyka, Murmansk-2, Vidlitsky-3, Karelian-Rebolsk-1, plus up to 5 from Narva.
        2. Sugar Honeyovich
          Sugar Honeyovich 28 May 2020 18: 17 New
          +3
          Quote: Olgovich
          they believe the opposite. freed their land.

          And they believed that their land - before the Yenisei.
          The foreign tourist, recognizing the independence of Finland, stipulated, previously, its borders? No? And what questions?
          According to the peace treaty, the borders were agreed. And nothing - the Finns calmly violated the contract. So "Finland would be neutral if not for the Winter War" - the fantasy of our time.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 28 May 2020 18: 43 New
            -5
            Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
            And they believed that their land - before the Yenisei.

            So you think that "an intourist is always alive, he is always with you" lol . AND?
            Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
            According to the peace treaty, the borders were agreed. And nothing - the Finns calmly violated the contract. So "Finland would be neutral if not for the Winter War" -

            This is a fact, after 1922 there were no fights until 1939, there are practically no army, as well as weapons.

            It’s immediately obvious that they are "getting ready" for ... "aggression" lol
            1. Sugar Honeyovich
              Sugar Honeyovich 28 May 2020 18: 49 New
              +4
              Quote: Olgovich
              So you think

              Same as you? lol
              Quote: Olgovich
              This is FACT - after 1922 no fights until 1939

              And after the peace treaty of 1920 - an armed invasion. It is a fact. But the Germans did not do this. They did not prepare for "aggression"? fool
    3. podymych
      28 May 2020 08: 48 New
      12
      Olgovich! Dear monarchist!
      Regarding the fact that in May of the 40th it was necessary to stab the Nazis in the back - I completely agree, maybe the war would not cost us such terrible victims, although something like the First World War then turned out.
      But as for the people's power, you are in vain. Russia never knew anything more national !!! Maybe only with Veche in Veliky Novgorod. The psychological motive is important - how the people themselves perceived this power. And just do not talk here about the Stalinist propaganda and other cliches. People believed, because they gave their lives and the last thing they had.
      And every trash continued to write denunciations in the war, but this neglected flywheel cannot be forgiven
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 28 May 2020 10: 01 New
        +7
        Quote: podymych
        Regarding the fact that in May of the 40th it was necessary to stab the Nazis in the back - I completely agree
        It is possible that in this case, all the diplomatic achievements of the USSR in the future alliance with England and the United States would not have happened, it could very well have been that it would have been necessary to fight Germany alone.
        1. podymych
          28 May 2020 10: 04 New
          +4
          https://topwar.ru/user/Владимир_2У/
          Well, that’s cool, just at that moment when the Anglo-French group got bored in Dunkirk - and we will be left alone? Churchill did not give up even then, and if the Russians had gone from the East ...
          1. Vladimir_2U
            Vladimir_2U 28 May 2020 10: 18 New
            +8
            Quote: podymych
            Well this is you cool

            Maybe, but the British in this case would not be bound by any obligations to the USSR and could leave the war at any moment, and this would not be a separate way out. Rudy Hess will not let you lie. )))
            Well, accusations of treachery of the Russians would have had every reason in this case.
          2. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
            Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 28 May 2020 11: 36 New
            +3
            God be with them, the Angles, led by Churchill! ... Here, I think, is different: put yourself in the place of Stalin - start the offensive, breaking the 1939 Pact. And how to explain this to your people and the whole world? What would you personally say in the place of Stalin? I don’t know ... Difficult. It’s even impossible!
            1. podymych
              28 May 2020 11: 47 New
              +1
              https://topwar.ru/user/Андрей+Жданов-Недилько/
              Well, just bravo!
              We are here on the forum all turned to alternative. And the only question is the time when all the dogs will be hanged in Russia - right after the Victory, or they will wait a bit.
              After Fulton, they didn’t roll on us just because the people would not understand, and then we already had a bomb, thanks to Lavrenty Palych and scientists with engineers and hard workers in uranium mines.
              Well, to the Czechs, a separate "thank you" (without irony) for the almost finished weapons-grade uranium for our first bomb ...
              1. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
                Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 28 May 2020 13: 23 New
                +2
                No, I do not agree - most importantly, thanks to Lavrenty Pavlovich for controlling the Manhattan Project: without the information “from there”, there would be no trace of our “answer”! Although our "answer" is the result of the work of many departments, science, factories and people. And then Czechs, Jews, Scandinavians and other helpers and fellow travelers!
            2. Kronos
              Kronos 28 May 2020 14: 58 New
              +2
              The British and French themselves abandoned the alliance with the USSR and the Red Army was not ready to fight alone with Germany in 1940
          3. ccsr
            ccsr 28 May 2020 13: 03 New
            +2
            Quote: podymych
            Well, that’s cool, just at that moment when the Anglo-French group got bored in Dunkirk - and we will be left alone?

            Americans in general in such a situation could help Germany financially - so it’s not a fact that after the Finnish war someone in Europe would help us.
            Quote: podymych
            Churchill did not give up even then, and if the Russians had gone from the East ...

            I’m afraid that you have a poor idea of ​​the real power of the Red Army at that time, but if you read the act of handing over affairs between the People’s Commissars, then perhaps your enthusiasm will decrease.
            I will not bore you with any numbers, but just think at least about the fact that our communications commissariat provided communications for the Red Army, whose structures were not in other countries. And how were you going to manage millions of groups when crossing the border, if radio communications were a weak link in our command and control system, and field hardware for long-distance communications appeared for the first time only in 1942.
            I think that if we ourselves started the war in 1940 with an attack on Germany, the defeat of our troops could be even stronger than it was in 1941.
            1. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
              Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 28 May 2020 13: 24 New
              -1
              Quote: ccsr
              I think that if we ourselves started the war in 1940 with an attack on Germany, the defeat of our troops could be even stronger than it was in 1941.
              Reply

              Not strong, but to others! ...
        2. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
          Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 28 May 2020 11: 32 New
          +1
          But this is very controversial ...
      2. Olgovich
        Olgovich 28 May 2020 10: 43 New
        -12
        Quote: podymych
        Olgovich! Dear to the monarchist!

        Dear Alexey, hello! hi

        I am satisfied with ANY form of power in which the people of Russia are happy, free. growing numerically and spiritually, fed up, protected.
        Quote: podymych
        Regarding the fact that in May of the 40th it was necessary to stab the Nazis in the back - I completely agree, maybe the war would not cost us such terrible victims, although something like the First World War then turned out.

        it's obvious not to see a convincing PMV example it's funny
        Quote: podymych
        But as for the people's power, you are in vain. Russia never knew anything more national !!!

        No exclamations or empty words - they are not worth it nothing.

        Bring me results of competitive equal free elections people of different parties in the 1930-1950s, in which the "people's" party won and the percentages of it and other parties. You are welcome! hi

        What, no way?

        And why was the "popular" power so wildly AFRAID of the people's choice, huh? SO was terribly afraid that not the slightest freedom, nor the press, nor parties, nor assemblies, nor elections, nor organizations, nor even thoughts!
        Quote: podymych
        People believed, because they gave their lives and the last thing they had.

        They gave, yes, EVERYTHING,defending the Fatherland.restoring it.

        But when it was necessary to stand purely for the "people's" power in 1991, then nobody got up, including the 17 millionth advanced detachment of this "people's" government.

        PS and do not, I ask for "degeneration", "degeneration" of the "elite", about the "enemies" creeping along the corridors of the Kremlin- invaders, etc .: "people's" power-party SINGLE SELF-rule she herself, countless times, "fluctuated" her course, planted, shot her own, cleaned, updated etc.-there are pure diamonds the output should have been! yes

        And come out, oh !!. belay request lol laughing
    4. qQQQ
      qQQQ 28 May 2020 09: 05 New
      12
      Quote: Olgovich
      In May 1940, it was necessary to hit the aggressor from the rear and save themselves from June 1941

      And it would be all the same, only in an even worse version. The victory of Germany, this is the merit of its commanding staff, ours at that time was much weaker than even 41.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 28 May 2020 11: 06 New
        -12
        Quote: qqqq
        And it would be all the same, only in an even worse version.

        The war for Germany on TWO fronts, which Stalin vainly sought then for THREE years since 1941, is ... the worst option ?!
        1. strannik1985
          strannik1985 28 May 2020 11: 08 New
          +6
          The war for Germany on TWO fronts, which Stalin vainly sought then for THREE years since 1941, is ... the worst option ?!

          Until May 10, 1940, the French and British did not fight, what would prevent them from doing the same after the Germans transferred their efforts to the East? What will prevent them from speaking out against the USSR after a couple of years of hostilities?
        2. qQQQ
          qQQQ 28 May 2020 15: 25 New
          +6
          Quote: Olgovich
          The war for Germany on TWO fronts, which Stalin vainly sought then for THREE years since 1941, is ... the worst option ?!

          The war in the west for Germany ended very quickly. It is unlikely that during this time the USSR would even have time to make a strike. And not the fact that we were not preparing for such a scenario, the Molotov-Ribentrop Pact was aimed specifically at turning the Germans to the West, but again, for starters, Hitler had to get stuck in France.
    5. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 28 May 2020 09: 57 New
      12
      Quote: Olgovich
      FRIENDSHIP treaty with the Nazis is harmful - you can’t be friends with the Nazis even in words

      In May 1940, it was necessary to hit the aggressor from the rear and save themselves from June 1941

      Let the deceitful Russophobe and "ingenious strategist" Olgych give here the agreement "On Friendship", in which the word friendship is mentioned one and a half times.
      Quote: Olgovich
      The people, on the other hand, have never chosen this power anywhere, for there have not been any popular elections since November 1917.

      Like never before, the people of the kings-fathers and mothers did not choose, but how did the illiterate Olgych know this.
      Quote: Olgovich
      In the same Politburo, no one ever, anywhere at work, did not work: everyone, right away, began their career with ... leadership and immediately ... with the state ..
      Well, what a degenerate it is to be gurgling in the blue eye!
      Quote: Olgovich
      The fact that the troops were taken absolutely by surprise, in a sky-ready state, the aircraft were destroyed at ... airfields, the units were without artillery (at the training camps), the huge warehouses at the borders and were seized, that ALL STRATEGIC BRIDGES were seized WHOLE, the roads were not mined and the Germans poured over them at a speed of 70 km / day, that's all ... falsification

      The stupidity of this statement is simply unrealistic. But ETOG OLGYCH, it does not bother him.
      Quote: Olgovich
      And even if she had told the people the TRUTH about the millions who died of starvation as a result of her reign, the millions exiled, the hundreds of thousands who were shot during the year 37-38 (this has never happened in Russia, and in the world too!)
      Amazingly, Olgych almost did not hesitate, though he didn’t even remember the people who were shot and hanged in the Civil War, and in the years 37-38 he was able to avoid this war, even if it had forgotten so much as the Tsar’s woman was “popularly chosen” in 1917. including for many years of "infirmities." So take Russophobe Olgych, forgive him this trifle.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 28 May 2020 10: 59 New
        -11
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        false Russophobe and "brilliant strategist" Olgych

        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        illiterate Olga

        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        what should be degenerate

        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        Stupidity

        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        dawdled

        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        Russophobe Olgycha


        Vova from the 2nd “U” has very convincing arguments - today he is straightforward, he has surpassed himself! yes lol
        1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Dr. Frankenstucker
        Dr. Frankenstucker 28 May 2020 16: 16 New
        -3
        friendship agreement, in which the word friendship is mentioned one and a half times.


        but perhaps the only mention in the title of the Treaty on September 28, 1939. not enough?
    6. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk 28 May 2020 10: 05 New
      +3
      [quote = Olgovich]
      FRIENDSHIP treaty with the Nazis is harmful, you can’t be friends with the Nazis even in words [/ quote
      = Non-aggression pact between Germany and the Soviet Union (German: Deutsch-sowjetischer Nichtangriffspakt; also known as the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact) - =
      = According to the agreement, the parties to the agreement pledged to refrain from attacking each other and maintain neutrality if one of them became the object of hostilities of a third party. =
      And where are the words about friendship? He himself came up with, he criticized. Famously!
      [quote = Olgovich]
      the benefit was that it was stipulated that in the event of German aggression against Poland, Germany stops 200 km west of our borders, an absolutely sound decision. [/ quote]
      Not only. The USSR agreed to this agreement (Germany was the initiator) only after the signing of the "Trade Agreement". According to which the USSR received equipment from Germany for machine-building plants, power plants, chemical plants, samples of the latest military equipment, etc., on credit issued by Deutsche Bank.
      [quote = Olgovich]
      In May 1940, it was necessary to hit the aggressor from the rear and save yourself from June 1941 [/ quote]
      And become an aggressor in the eyes of the world community, unite the whole world in the fight against Soviet aggression. Bravo Olgovich! Just a giant of thought!
      [quote = Olgovich]
      Who said that Finland (with its caricature army of 30 thousand people) would not be neutral in 41 g (like its neighbor Sweden) if it were not for the Winter War? But the dangerous beast received for sure! [/ Quote]
      And the USSR did not touch Italy, Croatia, Slovakia, but for some reason they attacked the USSR together with Germany. Do not know why?
      [quote = Olgovich] The fact that the troops were taken absolutely by surprise, [/ quote]
      Where? Only at Pavlov!
      [quote = Olgovich]
      about the appeal of Stalin on July 3: let the authors imagine that a terrible war has begun, the loss of territories, and neither today, nor tomorrow, nor in a week, nor in 10 days, the leader ... does not say a word, is silent! [/ quote]
      Head of what? Was Stalin a member of the government? On behalf of the Soviet government, Molotov spoke.
      Only on June 30 did Stalin receive the official status of head of state!
      And on July 3 he delivered a speech to the people.
      [quote = Olgovich]
      Where does this definition come from - "folk"? [/ Quote]
      What a horror, they did not consult with Olgovich!
      [quote = Olgovich]
      In the same Politburo, no one ever, anywhere at work, did not work: everyone, right away, began their career with ... leadership and immediately ... with the state .. [/ quote]
      And Olgovich cannot sleep from envy. And you try as they are, if UMA is enough.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 28 May 2020 12: 54 New
        -12
        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
        And where are the words about friendship? He himself came up with, he criticized. Famously!

        and this is at SCHOOL, dear, for knowledge!
        German-Soviet Treaty of Friendship and Border - an agreement between Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union from 28 September 1939 years
        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
        And become an aggressor in the eyes of the world community, unite the whole world in the fight against Soviet aggression. Bravo Olgovich! Just a giant of thought!

        belay lol

        HOW you can become ... an aggressor, freeingterritory of Poland from Germany's globally recognized aggressor villain , driving out her .?

        belay
        In 1944 g
        I remind you, we did то же самое. In your opinion, we ....- were the aggressors? !

        You, now, have rolled down, like the Poles, Czechs, the Baltic states, some songs are sung, bravo! good
        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
        And the USSR did not touch Italy, Croatia, Slovakia, but for some reason they attacked the USSR together with Germany. Do not know why?

        read in the book. To the Finns, no relation.
        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
        Head of what? Was Stalin a member of the government? On behalf of the Soviet government, Molotov spoke.
        Only on June 30 did Stalin receive the official status of head of state!
        And on July 3 he delivered a speech to the people.

        yeah, and before that he .... didn’t lead anything in the country, didn’t speak anywhere and didn’t say anything. lol

        Everyone was waiting, and when will they OFFICIALLY make him a leader so that he can finally clarify at least something to the confused citizens? lol
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 28 May 2020 14: 15 New
          +6
          Quote: Olgovich
          HOW can you become ... an aggressor, freeing the territory of Poland from the internationally recognized aggressor-villain of Germany, expelling it.?

          Very simple - for a certain (and rather large) part of the Poles, even Germans are better Red-bellied Russians. Remember the same AK sheep.
          So expect an appeal to all democratic countries about the Soviet attack on Poland and the courageous struggle of Polish and German soldiers, shoulder to shoulder, with a red threat.
          1. Sugar Honeyovich
            Sugar Honeyovich 28 May 2020 18: 33 New
            +2
            Quote: Alexey RA
            for a certain (and rather large) part of the Poles, even the Germans are better than the red-bellied Russians.

            ANY Russians
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 28 May 2020 18: 35 New
              +3
              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
              ANY Russians

              You are right - any Russian. hi
          2. Olgovich
            Olgovich 29 May 2020 07: 26 New
            -1
            Quote: Alexey RA
            Very simple - for a certain (and rather large) part of the Poles, even Germans are better than the red-bellied Russians. Remember the same AK sheep.
            So wait for appeals to all democratic countries about the Soviet attack on Poland and the courageous struggle of Polish and German soldiers, shoulder to shoulder, with a red threat.

            Waiting for with 1944 years and nothing. belay request Maybe show?

            And than the liberation of Poland 44 years different from the liberation of Poland 40 years (I recall that Poland itself did not exist in both cases)?

            Nothing!
        2. Hantengri
          Hantengri 28 May 2020 21: 05 New
          +1
          Quote: Olgovich
          German-Soviet Treaty of FRIENDSHIP and border - an agreement between Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union of September 28, 1939

          Olgovich, if you see what is written on the barn: [three-letter word], you too, in a fit of youthful maximalism, will begin to prove that it is he who lies there?
          1. Dr. Frankenstucker
            Dr. Frankenstucker 30 May 2020 10: 09 New
            -2
            That is, all the title pages of international treaties of the USSR - is it "written on the shed" ?? Or is it your fit for senile maximalism?
    7. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 28 May 2020 14: 11 New
      +5
      Quote: Olgovich
      In May 1940, it was necessary to hit the aggressor from the rear and save themselves from June 1941

      There is nothing to beat.
      What am I talking about? In addition to the fact that it is now necessary to restore all tank brigades and make appropriate reorganizations by restoring urgently tank brigades, at least at the expense of tanks of rifle divisions. Today, in the Kiev Military District, there are 14 tanks in four tank brigades. The war sold them apart, tank brigades scattered. I must bluntly say that if mobilization is going on, our KOVO brigades are not ready. The tanks of these brigades are now returning from the Leningrad Military District.
      © Pavlov. April 15, 1940
      And the general condition of the Red Army can be estimated by the well-known Act of transfer of NPOs. Which could be used unchanged as an indictment in the case of "the criminal Trotskyist clique of Voroshilov, who destroyed the Red Army". smile
      Quote: Olgovich
      Who said that Finland (with its caricature army of 30 thousand people) would not be neutral in 41 g (like its neighbor Sweden) if it were not for the Winter War?

      Here it is better to recall not Sweden, which did not border the USSR, but neutral Hungary. Which remained neutral for exactly 5 days.
      Two loneliness will converge on the Finnish question: one needs to occupy Murmansk, cut the Kirov railway and take Leningrad, and the other dreams of Great Finland, hates Russia, and has already tried twice to increase its country by military means at the expense of the RSFSR.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 28 May 2020 14: 55 New
        -10
        Quote: Alexey RA
        There is nothing to beat.

        So Germany -Nothing to fight back.

        And the Red Army, where did it go?

        And Germany has zero resources, unlike the USSR
        Quote: Alexey RA
        Here it is better to recall not Sweden, which did not border the USSR, but neutral Hungary. Which remained neutral for exactly 5 days.

        HungaryHitler two years already. Where does she go?

        Croatia also did not border the USSR.

        Romania, by the way, what did not remember? She has a bigger border with the USSR than the Hungarian ....
        Quote: Alexey RA
        Two loneliness will converge on the Finnish question: one needs to occupy Murmansk, cut the Kirov railway and take Leningrad, and the other dreams of Great Finland, hates Russia, and has already tried twice to increase its country by military means at the expense of the RSFSR.

        Spring 1939 g-30 tanks PMV and a caricature army of 30 thousand people.
        Kakya KZD, which in Finland?

        as for their own / non-own land, the parties have different equal opinions - it was necessary to negotiate before the tabular recognition of independence ...
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 28 May 2020 15: 36 New
          +4
          Quote: Olgovich
          And the Red Army, where did it go?

          And suddenly it turned out that the formidable and powerful Red Army is only in the bravura reports of NPOs. But in fact, this same NGO does not even know how many people are subordinate to it. There are no operational plans; the plans of the GSh districts are unknown. Mobplan - no, stocktaking of stockpiles has not been carried out since 1927, there is no single inventory accounting.
          By the time the People’s Commissariat of Defense was received, the army had a significant lack of staff, especially in the infantry, reaching 21% of the nominal strength as of May 1, 1940.
          It was established that annual graduations from military schools did not provide the necessary reserves for the growth of the army and the formation of reserves.
          The quality of the training of command personnel is low, especially in the platoon-company unit, in which up to 68% have only short-term 6-month training for the course of junior lieutenant.

          Etc.
          It’s enough to recall that for the war with that very Finland with its “caricature army” it was necessary to undress the Western border districts and attract half of the country's tank plants to repair equipment.
          Quote: Olgovich
          Romania, by the way, what did not remember? She has a bigger border with the USSR than the Hungarian ....

          Duc ... Bessarabia is the same.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 28 May 2020 16: 05 New
            -8
            Quote: Alexey RA
            And suddenly it turned out that the formidable and powerful Red Army is only in the bravura reports of NPOs. But in fact, this same NGO does not even know how many people are subordinate to it. There are no operational plans; the plans of the GSh districts are unknown. Mobplan - no, stocktaking of stockpiles has not been carried out since 1927, there is no single inventory accounting.

            There is nothing, but the army was.

            and it was she who was going to fight on the side of the emergency in 1938, carried out the Polish campaign and liberated Bessarabia.

            And in May 1940, Hitler had absolutely nothing to oppose her.
            Quote: Alexey RA
            Duc ... Bessarabia is


            Here Finland is.

            But it is a sin to be offended with Bessarabia-Romania: as early as 1918 it vowed to leave and deceived. The USSR NEVER recognized Bessarabia as Romania.
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 28 May 2020 18: 44 New
              +2
              Quote: Olgovich
              and it was she who was going to fight on the side of the emergency in 1938, carried out the Polish campaign and liberated Bessarabia.

              Yeah ... without a war, the Red Army was powerful. It was only in the Polish campaign that she showed that even in the absence of enemy resistance, she could make difficulties for herself.
              And then this army fell into the Finnish War, and according to its results, the first red officer, the legendary Marshal Voroshilov, was removed from his post. Something was clearly wrong in the Red Army if, after winning the war, the Minister of Defense flew from his post. smile
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 28 May 2020 19: 02 New
                -7
                Quote: Alexey RA
                Something was clearly wrong in the Red Army, if after winning the war Minister of Defense flew from his post.

                Given that the other marshals were shot just for nothing, then simply removal from office for a specific failure, just the same, a high government award. yes
        2. Sugar Honeyovich
          Sugar Honeyovich 28 May 2020 18: 35 New
          +2
          Quote: Olgovich
          caricature army of 30 thousand people

          With which they were going to confront the Russians for at least six months and with which they went on the offensive in December 1939.
      2. Octopus
        Octopus 28 May 2020 15: 16 New
        -5
        Quote: Alexey RA
        There is nothing to beat.

        Hard to say. It is believed that the Red Army of the 41st year - worse than the 39th. In key issues - manageability, staffing with sergeants and junior command personnel - worse for sure.
        Quote: Alexey RA
        and neutral Hungary. Which remained neutral for exactly 5 days.

        Speaking of neutral Hungary. And what happened there in Kosice?
        Quote: Alexey RA
        and the other is dreaming of Great Finland, hates Russia, and has already twice tried to increase his country by military means at the expense of the RSFSR.

        Who, excuse me, does this? Mannerheim?
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 28 May 2020 15: 40 New
          +5
          Quote: Octopus
          Hard to say. It is believed that the Red Army of the 41st year is worse than the 39th. In key issues - manageability, staffing with sergeants and junior command personnel - worse for sure.

          Judging by the Polish campaign, the Red Army-39 also did not shine with controllability. Enchanting spectacle - a tank brigade attacks the enemy with its rear (the rear of the infantry brigade escaped 20 km ahead of the forward detachment of the main brigade). About the mechanized corps that paralyzed the rear of the army, I don’t even say - the whole marshal had to take the cork out.
          1. Octopus
            Octopus 28 May 2020 16: 01 New
            -5
            Who was the enemy there in the 39th year? Is Guderian really?
            Quote: Alexey RA
            Judging by the Polish campaign, the Red Army-39 also did not shine with controllability

            That is yes. But there is an opinion that in 2 years they did incomparably more and better in terms of the mess. In the fall of the 41st, they surrendered very much in many ways, stronger than the level of the 39th year.
  4. Octopus
    Octopus 28 May 2020 08: 37 New
    -9
    I do not understand. What is the article about? Some incoherent exclamations, in no way related to each other.

    Where did we start.
    From the second half of the 50s of the last century, analysts, historians, and publicists regularly introduce assertions that the Soviet leadership at the beginning of the war was nothing more than confused and lost the thread of government. That nothing was done to forestall the Nazi invasion. And only on July 3, Stalin was allegedly forced to call on brothers and sisters for popular resistance to Nazi aggression.

    What finished.
    The main thing is that the agreement of July 12, 1941 de facto and de jure laid the foundation for the creation of a broad anti-Hitler coalition.


    July 3, it is written at the beginning, Stalin was dragged from the coronary bunker and forced to record videoappeal to dear Russians. Do the authors confirm this? Do the authors refute this?
  5. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
    Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 28 May 2020 08: 44 New
    +4
    Excellent article, thanks!
  6. thinker
    thinker 28 May 2020 09: 08 New
    +4
    ... whether there was more harm or benefit from the pact in terms of preparing for war.

    With regard to harm and benefit, the fate of the bill will be interesting -
    State Duma deputy Alexei Zhuravlev on Wednesday introduced the State Duma draft federal law on invalidation in the territory of the Russian Federation of the resolution of the Congress of People's Deputies of the USSR of December 24, 1989 "On the political and legal assessment of the Soviet-German non-aggression treaty of 1939". "The resolution does not comply with the principles of historical justice and was adopted in the conditions of increasing political instability of those years, accompanied by pressure from external forces."

    https://tass.ru/obschestvo/8576351
    1. Octopus
      Octopus 28 May 2020 09: 42 New
      +1
      Quote: thinker
      the fate of the bill will be interesting -

      All Russophobic regional committee hold fists for this bill. In fact, Putin's signature under the Molotov-Ribentrop Pact - what could be better?
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 28 May 2020 10: 30 New
        +6
        Quote: Octopus
        In fact, Putin's signature under the Molotov-Ribentrop Pact - what could be better?
        Only Stalin is in place of GDP, but this is fantastic.
        Quote: Octopus
        All Russophobic regional committee hold fists for this bill.

        Yeah, statements by the State Duma of the Russian Federation with the recognition of false figures about the famine of the 30s. and recognition of the Polish-Nazi version of Katyn as the truth - is this Russophilia and defending the interests of Russia?
        1. podymych
          28 May 2020 11: 56 New
          +8
          Yeah, statements by the State Duma of the Russian Federation with the recognition of false figures about the famine of the 30s. and recognition of the Polish-Nazi version of Katyn as the truth - is this Russophilia and defending the interests of Russia?

          So to the point - no words! It is the Polish-Nazi version. You know that ordinary people in the Smolensk region say - let them make fun, if only they wouldn’t spoil our graves, but they kept them clean. But Pu passed Katyn so shamefully that the word shame is simply nothing.
          However, "wretched shame does not have ..."
          1. Dmitry V.
            Dmitry V. 28 May 2020 13: 44 New
            -6
            Quote: podymych
            recognition of the Polish-Nazi version of Katyn as the truth - is this Russophilia and defending the interests of Russia?


            To recognize the crime of shooting the NKVD of captured Polish officers, police, border guards, priests and other Polish employees is to follow the path of truth and it means to defend Russia's interests.
            Therefore, the volumes of the investigation of this crime by Beria, Stalin and the NKVD were transferred to Poland.
            I believe that with this Russia strengthened its position and distanced itself from the criminal acts of the leaders of the USSR.
          2. Olgovich
            Olgovich 28 May 2020 13: 47 New
            -10
            Quote: podymych
            Yeah, statements by the State Duma of the Russian Federation with the recognition of false figures about the famine of the 30s.

            So nonsense, a question: bring non-living OFFICIAL SOVIET NUMBERS victims of hunger 30s -from speeches by co-leaders at congresses, plenums, meetings, in newspapers, on the radio, from Soviet scientific monographs, studies. and-CLOSE, forever, his, "expose" the State Duma! yes lol

            For example: "According to a speech at the 17th congress of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks, comrade comrade and comrade cases of starvation -...., cases of cannibalism ...."

            Bring and official fasting mortality figures 1937 year , a year already built socialism! hi

            Again ... no way? No way ...

            PS post-Soviet comm "historians" -marginal not to offer!
            1. Vladimir_2U
              Vladimir_2U 29 May 2020 03: 35 New
              -1
              Quote: Olgovich
              So nonsense, a question: bring the insignificant OFFICIAL SOVIET figures of the victims of the famine of the 30s — from speeches by co-leaders at congresses, plenums, meetings, in newspapers, on the radio, from Soviet scientific monographs, studies. and-CLOSE, forever, his, "expose" the State Duma!
              Already wrote Olga more than once, such figures in open sources are not voiced! Open Soviet sources do not have such numbers! But Olgych and the expression "hollow in the eyes" seem to be synonyms.
              But before asking such categorical questions, for some reason he does not see the answer to the emphasis, let Olgych first give the figures officially voiced by the tsar or even his ministers who died of starvation, for example, in 1892-91. Not to mention such official figures in the USA for the 30s. Olgych thinks himself to be an intelligent person, he should kind of understand that before appointing himself as a prosecutor, one should pass an exam first.

              Well, already according to tradition, the wet-tailed Olga never once answered such simple and quite logical questions
              Does Olgych consider the recognition by the State Duma of the Russian Federation the figure of 7 million people who died of starvation in 1932-33? Yes or no.
              Does Olgych consider the recognition by the State Duma of the Russian Federation of the Polish-Nazi version of the Katyn execution correct. Yes or no.
              It's simple: Yes or no.
              But there will be another wet-tailed wagging.
              Quote: Olgovich
              PS post-Soviet comm "historians" -marginal not to offer!


              Quote: Olgovich
              PS post-Soviet comm "historians" -marginal not to offer!

              Well, of course, the figures of the radiant English American and Super-True Ukrainian Scientists are nicer to Olgych - after all, they are all and Olgych are plasma lovers and patriots of Russia.
              Here are the official figures for Olga:
              http://istmat.info/files/uploads/44830/rgae_4372.92.161_l.1-34.pdf
              Table three.

              Let ka Olgych bring at least something similar from the Tsarist, or from the radiant USA.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 29 May 2020 08: 25 New
                -2
                Quote: Vladimir_2U
                Already wrote Olga more than once, such figures in open sources are not voiced! Open Soviet sources do not have such numbers!

                . ! Did not write a liar

                2. It is known without you that they are not there.

                3. WHAT right so-called "popular" power had to hide this a crime from the people?
                The people, something redneck? Only had the right to die?

                4. What were some of your rights to shout in the face of those dying of hunger that they ... well-off people? am They have completely lost their human appearance.
                Quote: Vladimir_2U
                But Olgych and expression "hollow in the eyes" It seems like synonyms.

                Look you that "dew" completely flooded my eyes. lol Love this therapy, wash yourself on the spot?
                Quote: Vladimir_2U
                let Olgych first cite the figures officially voiced by the tsar, or at least by his ministers, of those who died of starvation, for example, in 1892-91.

                You put on one board ... the damned "anti-people" tsarist regime and .... PEOPLE?! belay

                ALL newspapers in Russia wrote about deaths and hunger, ignoramus! The public, writers, journalists, officials spoke out, publicly organized the society to fight. It was the people's power, in contrast to the "people" - through LIES, carefully concealing its terrible failure-crime 32,33g

                On the!:
                Witnesses to the famine of 1891–1892 invariably saw the root cause of death in infectious diseases; infections seemed to them "companions of hunger." The deaths of adult peasants from malnutrition (death from alimentary dystrophy) were not directly observed by witnesses (which, of course, does not exclude the possibility of starvation); everyone heard about starvation, but did not see it themselves (L. N. Tolstoy: “Starvation, according to newspapers and rumors, has already begun”
                Ermolov A. S. (Minister) Crop failure and national disaster. - SPb .: Type. V. Kirshbaum, 1892.
                Izmailov A. Railways in a bad harvest of 1891. - SPb .: Type. J. N. Erlich, 1895
                Collection of rules for the provision of national food / Comp. G. G. Savich. In 3 issues. - SPb .: Type. Ministry of Internal Affairs, 1900.
                Collection of rules for the provision of national food / Comp. G. G. Savich. In 3 issues. - SPb .: Type. Ministry of Internal Affairs, 1900.
                Extract from the report of the Special Committee // Government Gazette. - March 1893. - No. 7.
                Extract from the report of the Special Committee // Government Gazette. - March 1893. - No. 19.
                A selection of clippings from the newspaper "Government Gazette" RGIA
                etc.
                Quote: Vladimir_2U
                Not to mention such official figures in the USA for the 30s.

                In the USA, there were NO deaths from starvation, it was even conscientious propagandists WAS embarrassed to write, only post-Soviet marginals invented to justify their own crimes.
                Quote: Vladimir_2U
                Does Olgych consider the recognition by the State Duma of the Russian Federation the figure of 7 million people who died of starvation in 1932-33? Yes or no.

                You are answered repeatedly, of course, YES.
                Quote: Vladimir_2U
                Does Olgych consider the recognition by the State Duma of the Russian Federation of the Polish-Nazi version of the Katyn execution correct. Yes or no.

                And this is answered: I am satisfied with the letter of the Glvana Military Prosecutor’s Office of 2004, of the year, the TASS statement on April 13, 1990 C about the Katyn tragedy,
                “The identified archival materials together allow us to conclude that there is direct responsibility for the atrocities in the Katyn forest of Beria, Merkulov and their henchmen.

                Quote: Vladimir_2U
                Here are the official figures for Olga:
                http://istmat.info/files/uploads/44830/rgae_4372.92.161_l.1-34.pdf
                Table three.

                In a tube, these "officer data" and there, there: WHERE THE NUMBERS of starvation deaths and cases of cannibalism ?!
                On their table, liar!
                1. Vladimir_2U
                  Vladimir_2U 29 May 2020 10: 39 New
                  0
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  Already wrote Olga more than once, such figures in open sources are not voiced! Open Soviet sources do not have such numbers!
                  . ! Did not write a liar
                  And again I repeat, Olgych, like all Russophobes a liar, and in his particular case, a stupid liar! Because:

                  Vladimir_2U (Vladimir) 5 14 May 2020 14: 10
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  Give the Soviet official liar
                  The liar here is only Olgych, because the figures of human losses from the famine of 1932-33 officially published by the Soviet government no. As there are no such figures about US casualties during the Great Depression. Who is Olgych to demand official figures from the Soviet government?
                  That's right, NOBODY!


                  Quote: Olgovich
                  2. It is known without you that they are not there.
                  And who then needs to be in order to demand numbers, knowingly knowing that they are not there! Is this not a sign of a liar?

                  Quote: Olgovich
                  WHAT right so-called Did the "people's" power hide this crime from the people?
                  Yes, it’s the same as any other government when it secretes data, including internal statistics. And what kind of crime is it?

                  Quote: Olgovich
                  What your no one had the right to shout in the face of those dying of hunger that they ... wealthy people?
                  Credibility from the context, which means the deceit of this quote is already taken apart! False Olgych, lord of tattered quotes, get the full quote again:
                  ... and raised them to level middle peasantsable to use collective farm land, benefits in favor of collective farms, tractors, agricultural machinery ....
                  We have achieved what we have raised thanks to collective farms to the poor middle peasants. It is very good. But this is not enough. We must now achieve one more step forward and help all collective farmers — both the former poor and the former middle peasants — rise to the level of the prosperous. This can be achieved and this we must achieve at all costs
                  For the especially “gifted” Olgych, in the hungry years, long before the Revolution, moreover, the fists were starving, not to mention the middle peasants

                  In our places, the peasant is considered wealthy when he has enough of his bread before Novi. Such a peasant no longer needs to sell his summer labor to a landowner, he can work for himself all summer, and therefore he will be wealthy, and soon he will have enough bread, not only to Novi, but also to Nov.
                  https://yandex.ru/turbo?text=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.perunica.ru%2Fstfoto%2F10126-zazhitochnoe-krestjanstvo-kulachestvo-vo-vtoroj-polovine-hih-nachale-hh-vv.html
                  And this is without any crop failures and other calamities. Just not a laborer the peasant was already considered rich! But then, apparently, the farmer sees Olga on seven tractors, while Olga is.


                  Quote: Olgovich
                  ALL newspapers wrote about deaths and hunger in Russia, ignoramus
                  Who writes about ignoramuses again? Wretched for whom the Nazis and internationalists are all united ?!

                  Quote: Olgovich
                  The public, writers, journalists, officials, publicly organized the society to fight
                  And where are the numbers?
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  This was the people's power, in contrast to the "people" - through LIES, carefully hiding its terrible failure-crime
                  It’s not even a disgrace to consider the tsar’s power to be popular, it’s insanity, only Olga remains pity, completely weakened on the Russophobian field.

                  Quote: Olgovich
                  On the!:

                  On the!
                  So, the lawyer and publicist K.K. Arseniev wrote in Vestnik Evropy (February 1892) from the Tambov province that the peasants had no potatoes, no oats, no millet, no millet, but only rotten cabbage and beets. All livestock was sold, even clothes were sold, so there was nothing to leave the house, there were no spring seeds left at all. In order to melt a hut, it was necessary to break yard buildings into firewood. Historian and public figure A.A. Kornilov wrote from there about the terrible need of the population, who ate unfit food (rotten cabbage and bread with a swan that even animals didn’t eat) and who was dying of it. The most terrible cases were reported from the field when mothers, unable to bear the suffering of their hungry children, thought about killing them and thereby freeing them from torment .... ... The supreme authorities generally denied the existence of hunger for a long time. It was rumored that Alexander III at the report of one of the ministers, which mentioned the famine, wrote: "I do not have hungry people, there are only victims of crop failure." By a circular of November 12, 1891, it was forbidden to publish in the newspapers appeals of private individuals to make donations to the starving, if these individuals did not have special permissions from the “subject authorities”. When the fact of hunger became undeniable, the government was forced to allocate funds to combat it, but they were greatly curtailed. At the same time, no deferrals in the payment of taxes were made for the starving areas.


                  Arseniev K.K. From a recent trip to the Tambov province // Bulletin of Europe. February 1892 S. 835-851.
                  Belokonsky I.P. Hunger, degeneration, extinction and ignorance of the Russian people, as a result of the political system. Rostov n / a. 1906
                  Kornilov A.A. Seven months among starving peasants. Report on assistance to the starving in some areas of the Morshansky and Kirsanovsky districts of the Tambov province, in 1891-1892. M., 1893.
                  Kornilov A.A. Peasant reform. SPb., 1905.
                  Korolenko V.G. In a hungry year. Observations and notes from diaries // Sobr. Op. in 10 vols. T. 9.M., 1955.
                  Plekhanov G.V. All-Russian ruin; On the tasks of the socialists in the fight against hunger in Russia // Works. T. 3.M.-Pg., 1923.
                  Sokolov N.P. The famine of 1891-1892 and the socio-political struggle in Russia. Abstract. M., 1987.
                  Tolstoy L.N. About hunger; Terrible question; Hunger or not hunger // Full. Sobr. Op. in 90 tt. T. 29.M., 1954.


                  Quote: Olgovich
                  In the USA, there were NO deaths from starvation, it was even conscientious propagandists WAS embarrassed to write, only post-Soviet marginals invented to justify their own crimes.
                  Then why are the numbers still classified, huh? So the Soviet ones are uncovered, but the Amer’s are not, why? Is this a sign of concealment of a crime? Exactly what.
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  Does Olgych consider the recognition by the State Duma of the Russian Federation the figure of 7 million people who died of starvation in 1932-33? Yes or no.
                  You are answered repeatedly, of course, YES.
                  Hallelujah, Olgych answered a half-question, he is now a half-tailed pigeon.
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  Does Olgych consider the recognition by the State Duma of the Russian Federation of the Polish-Nazi version of the Katyn execution correct. Yes or no.
                  And this is answered: I am satisfied with the letter of the Glvana Military Prosecutor’s Office of 2004, of the year, TASS statement on April 13, 1990 C about the Katyn tragedy
                  And here is half-tailed, progress however, the wobble continues! But I repeat the question.
                  Does Olgych consider the recognition by the State Duma of the Russian Federation of the Polish-Nazi version of the Katyn execution correct. Yes or no?
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  The revealed archival materials together allow us to conclude that there is direct responsibility for the atrocities in the Katyn forest of Beria, Merkulov and their henchmen
                  The fact that Olgych agrees with forgers and traitors of those years is not surprising. What to expect from Russophobe.

                  Quote: Olgovich
                  http://istmat.info/files/uploads/44830/rgae_4372.92.161_l.1-34.pdf
                  Table three.
                  In a tube, these "officer data" and there, there: WHERE THE NUMBERS of starvation deaths and cases of cannibalism ?!
                  Ignorance covered by arrogance, this is the whole Olgych. Hello, Olgych is the statistics provided to the GOVERNMENT! For the falsification of which I can not even imagine how many years of execution it was supposed.
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  WHERE IS THE NUMBERS of starvation deaths and cases of cannibalism ?!
                  In the same place where the same figures are of the tsarist years, I don’t see them from Olga.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 29 May 2020 12: 15 New
                    -3
                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    Vladimir_2U (Vladimir) 5 May 14, 2020 14:10
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Give the Soviet official liar
                    Only Olgych is a liar here, because there are no officially reported figures from the Soviet government of human losses from the famine of 1932-33

                    in the 2nd grade of special schools it’s not possible to understand that EVERYTHING could give numbers: the government and party, etc. public, writers, trade unions, etc.

                    No one gave.
                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    2. It is known without you that they are not there.
                    And who then needs to be in order to demand numbers, knowingly knowing that they are not there! Is this not a sign of a liar?

                    Quote: Olgovich
                    WHAT right so-called Did the "people's" power hide this from the people?
                    Yes, it’s the same as any other government when it secretes data, including internal statistics. And about what is the crime?

                    1. DEATH from the famine of the famine MILLIONS of fellow citizens in the PEACEFUL YEAR, in the middle of the 20th century, in Europe, as a result of incompetent actions is a crime.

                    To keep silent about this and to lie to their face is a crime.

                    Do not shout to the whole world and do not ask for help-crime

                    And the fact that they did not want this does not justify anyone.
                    2. The numbers MUST be and their MUST be voiced
                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    Credibility from the context, which means the deceit of this quote

                    In the FACE of the dying, it is said that they are ... -THE POSITIVE.

                    This is beyond human comprehension
                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    The public, writers, journalists, officials, publicly organized the society to fight
                    ?

                    Show in sovgazetami 32-33 years essays on cannibalism, starvation. To the table,!

                    In Russia, about the famine, EVERYTHING WRITTEN, And who is the popular regime and who is not?

                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    It’s not even a disgrace to consider the tsar’s power to be popular, it’s insanity, only Olga remains pity, completely weakened on the Russophobian field.

                    So the FACTS show: yours about millions of deaths-SILENT and hid the victims, Russia-SAVED and SPEAKED.

                    The difference has come, not, "Russophile"? You "Russophiles" brought the Russians to extinction.
                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    On the! from the Tambov province that the peasants did not have any potatoes, no oats, no millet, no millet, and only rotten cabbage and beets. All livestock was sold, even clothes were sold, so there was nothing to leave the house, there were no spring seeds left at all. In order to melt a hut, I had to break a yard for firewood

                    Compare horseradish with carrots: in 933, not one cabbage, but one man remained
                    : YEY DISTRICT. Dolzhanskaya village - 22 / IIgr.G **** ate the corpse of the dead sister's owl.
                    In the same village it was established that group D ***, remaining after the death of his father and mother with young sisters and brothers, ate the meat of brothers and sisters who died of starvation.

                    And this happened FORTY (!) Years later.
                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    Kornilov A.A. Seven months among starving peasants. Report on assistance to the starving in some areas of the Morshansky and Kirsanovsky districts of the Tambov province, in 1891-1892. M., 1893.

                    See HOW Russia wrote, researched, saved its own?
                    And your?!
                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    Then why are the numbers still classified, huh? So the Soviet ones are uncovered, but the Amer’s are not, why? Is this a sign of concealment of a crime?

                    They are "classified" for imbeciles. And for normal people, NO
                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    Does Olgych consider the recognition by the State Duma of the Russian Federation of the Polish-Nazi version of the Katyn execution correct. Yes or no?

                    1. In Nuremberg, your accusation fell apart.
                    2. I believe that yes rather than no. For there is NO trace of LIVE Poles after the spring of 1940. And before that, in bulk!
                    3. The fact that Hitler breathed air does not mean that they should not breathe.
                    Got it, no?
                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    http://istmat.info/files/uploads/44830/rgae_4372.92.161_l.1-34.pdf
                    Table three.
                    In a tube, these "officer data" and there, there: WHERE THE NUMBERS of starvation deaths and cases of cannibalism ?!
                    Ignorance covered by arrogance, this is the whole Olgych. Hello, Olgych is the statistics provided to the GOVERNMENT! For the falsification of which I can not even imagine how many years of execution it was supposed.

                    This state data is LOT and ALL DIFFERENT, and the difference is MILLIONS. Completely outraged, getting out!

                    On the!
                    USSR for 15 years (Statistical materials on the national economy). State Socio-Economic Publishing House, 1932 pp. 211; Socialist construction of the USSR (Statistical Yearbook) TSUNHU State Planning Committee of the USSR - V / O Soyuzorguchet, Moscow. 1934 p. 353; Census 1939; Stalin I.V. Works, vol. 13, Moscow: State Publishing House of Political Literature, 1951, “Report to the 26th Party Congress on the Work of the Central Committee of the CPSU (B.) January 1934, 336”, pp. 1937; I. Kraval “Census of 12” Planned economy. No. 1936-23 p. 1562.329.199; RGAE 59 L.1956; National Economy of the USSR (Statistical Digest), State Statistical Publishing House, Moscow, 17, pp. XNUMX
                    USSR for 15 years (Statistical materials on the national economy). State Socio-Economic Publishing House, 1932 pp. 211; RGAE 1562.329.151 L. 172; RSAE F. 7971, Op.16, D.54 The population of the USSR on January 17, 1939. By districts, district centers, cities, workers' settlements and large rural settlements. Gosplanizdat. Moscow. 1941 pp. 6
                    RGAE F. 7971, Op.16, D.54.RGAE F. 4372, Op. 92, D.161 L. 31b, 32; RGAE 1562.329.406 L.93
                    RGAE 1562.329.107 L.182


                    SIXTH time you shy away from a direct answer:

                    What right had the power not to inform the world about the catastrophe 32-33?

                    What right did she have to DO NOT ASK for help and doom millions to death?

                    Who and when gave her this right?

                    Russophobes are always so cowardly ... lol
                    1. Vladimir_2U
                      Vladimir_2U 30 May 2020 07: 30 New
                      -1
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      in the 2nd grade of special schools it’s impossible to understand that EVERYTHING could give numbers: the government and party, etc. public, writers, trade unions, etc.
                      Here is a confirmation of what exactly Olgych a liar, I gave the answer, and Olgych lied that he did not.

                      Quote: Olgovich
                      The numbers MUST be and their MUST be voiced

                      It is unfortunate that either hatred of Russia or mental development does not allow Olga to understand a simple thing:
                      He pointed out to the heads of regional departments that the class enemy is using food difficulties to agitate against the Soviet regime, will sow panic, provoke us, etc.
                      . Will it reach him?


                      Quote: Olgovich
                      DEATH from the famine of the famine MILLIONS of fellow citizens in the PEACEFUL YEAR, in the middle of the 20th century, in Europe, as a result of incompetent actions is a crime.
                      No bigger crime than this:
                      The all-Russian famine of 1891 seized more than 40 million people, of which, according to official figures, more than 2 million adults of only the Russian nations died, because "foreigners" in those years were not covered by statistics at all (according to the testimonies of newspapers and Count L.N. Tolstoy).
                      There were other “all-Russian famines” of 1900-1903, covering the same 40 million when 3 million adults died; 1911, after the notorious reforms of Stolypin, covering at least 30 million, when another 2 million adults died ...
                      The famine of 1891 was so terrible that it even stunned the royal family; information about the famine "leaked" to the press. But the famine of 1900-1903 was already under strict censorship, the information was sparingly, but because of the uprisings of the peasants and workers it was impossible to silence it. In 1902-03, 200 thousand regular troops were used to suppress peasant uprisings and workers' uprisings only in the Poltava and Kharkov provinces, i.e. 1/5 of the entire Russian army of those years


                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Do not shout to the whole world and do not ask for help-crime
                      And how did the tsarist government cry for help? Like this?
                      Quote: Vladimir_2U
                      The supreme authorities generally denied the existence of hunger for a long time. It was rumored that Alexander III at the report of one of the ministers, which mentioned the famine, wrote: "I do not have hungry people, there are only victims of crop failure." By a circular of November 12, 1891, it was forbidden to publish in the newspapers appeals of private individuals to make donations to the starving, if these individuals did not have special permissions from the "subject authorities"
                      or so?
                      But the famine of 1900-1903 was already under strict censorship, the information was sparingly, but because of the uprisings of the peasants and workers it was impossible to silence it.

                      Pretty cries for help! False, false Olgych.
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      So the FACTS show: yours about millions of deaths-SILENT and hid the victims, Russia-SAVED and SPEAKED.
                      What kind of Russia is this? Father Tsar and thieves in power? So they hushed up to the last. False Olgych.

                      Quote: Olgovich
                      In the FACE of the dying, they are said to ... ...
                      To tear out not even a quote but one word, this is a sign of not even insanity but bestiality.

                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Compare horseradish with carrots: in 933, not one cabbage, but one man remained
                      Those. rotten cabbage is that kind of food? I wish Olga to eat her at least a couple of days.
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      See HOW Russia wrote, researched, saved its own?
                      It is clear to Olga that he does not care, but I will quote:
                      Decision of the bureau of the Korenovsky district committee of the CPSU (b) of the North Caucasus region on the release of a food loan to needy individuals. April 1, 1933
                      Decision of the Starominsky district committee on spring sowing of the North Caucasus region on the use of milk from collective farms for feeding children and sick farmers. April 4, 1933
                      From the protocol No. 138 of the meeting of the Politburo of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks “On Food Aid to the North Caucasus”. June 1, 1933
                      Extract from protocol No. 78 of the meeting of the Lower Volga Regional Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks “On the provision of one-time food assistance to especially needy collective farmers”. March 23, 1933

                      And a lot of similar documents.
                      http://istmat.info/node/29769
                      http://istmat.info/node/25321
                      The help and punishment of those responsible was provided precisely by the government of the USSR. What Olgych will say to this.

                      Quote: Olgovich
                      They are "classified" for imbeciles. And for normal people, NO

                      Wow, let the "non-Imbecile" Olgych give a reference. Although Olgych and links, this is ridiculous.

                      Quote: Olgovich
                      In Nuremberg, your accusation fell apart.
                      1.Lies:
                      This did not crumble, they did not investigate it because of bias. And what does yours mean? Does Olgych deliberately separate himself from Russia? That's right, Olgych is not even a Russophobe, he is a hater of Russia.
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      2. I believe that yes rather than no. For there is NO trace of LIVE Poles after the spring of 1940. And before that, in bulk!
                      And again, a lie, another commission Burdenko found documents on the bodies
                      According to the commission, on the bodies of the dead were found several documents with dates later than spring 1940. These were: two requests from Poland, five receipts for the acceptance of gold watches and money, a paper icon marked "April 4, 1941." and the unsent postcard of Stanislav Kuchinsky dated June 20, 1941. Subsequently, an investigation by the Chief Military Prosecutor's Office of the Russian Federation proved that the documents were the result of direct falsification
                      . Betrayal and falsification in the 90's. it is the figures from the prosecutor's office that are not in doubt.



                      Quote: Olgovich
                      This state data is LOT and ALL DIFFERENT, and the difference is MILLIONS. Completely outraged, getting out!

                      Quote: Olgovich
                      In a tube, these "officer data" and there, there: WHERE THE NUMBERS of starvation deaths and cases of cannibalism ?!
                      Is it not insanity to demand “into the tube” and rely on them almost immediately?

                      Quote: Olgovich
                      SIXTH time you shy away from a direct answer:
                      What right had the power not to inform the world about the catastrophe 32-33?
                      So is that a question for me? And then Olgych in loud letters usually writes every lie, (in real life he would squeal like a shred) and then the question is. Well, I’ll answer, the authorities had the right not to say anything to the hostile environment, the authorities have no right not to react to such things, and the reaction was evident above. But Olga, as an inveterate hater of Russia, does not care about such things.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 30 May 2020 09: 52 New
                        -2
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Here is a confirmation of what exactly Olgych a liar, I gave the answer, and Olgych lied that he did not.

                        didn't get it? ANOTHER TIME: ALL could give numbers: both the government and party, etc. public, writers, trade unions, etc.

                        No one gave.
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        It is unfortunate that either hatred of Russia or mental development does not allow Olga to understand a simple thing:
                        He pointed out to the heads of regional departments that the class enemy is using food difficulties to agitate against the Soviet regime, will sow panic, provoke us, etc.
                        . Will it reach him?

                        No his dog business, decide what the people should know and what should not: the people, hack on the forehead, it’s NOT HAPPEN and had the right to KNOW, and not just to DIE.

                        what a sacred such cow .... power? Discussed-march to the landfill!
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        And how did the tsarist government cry for help? Like this?

                        The supreme authorities generally denied the existence of hunger for a long time. Went gossipthat Alexander III

                        rumors-into the tube and-there. there!

                        and the Russian Government rewarded the organizers of food aid sent from the USA in 1891-92 with valuable gifts worth 2400 rubles.

                        Now show THAT they sent the USA in 33 g and WHY they did not know anything.
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        It what is Russia? Father Tsar and thieves in power? So they hushed up to the last. False Olgych.

                        Russian Russia, which SPEAKED and SAVED: absolutely EVERYBODY wrote about hunger and what they wanted.

                        And they saved the starving in it all: state, public. church, individuals. other states.

                        Why you deprived hungry this all in 1932,33,37,39?
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Wow, let the "non-Imbecile" Olgych give a reference. Although Olgych and links, this is ridiculous.

                        On the. ignoramus, state statistics: Historical Statistics of the United States
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        1.Lies:
                        This did not crumble, they did not investigate it because of bias. And what does yours mean? Does Olgych deliberately separate himself from Russia? That's right, Olgych is not even a Russophobe, he is a hater of Russia.

                        crumbled to dust due to the failure of the prosecution to prove anything.

                        Lying doesn’t mean loving Russia, it’S INSURING it, which you Russophobes do.
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        And again, a lie, another commission Burdenko found documents on the bodies
                        According to the commission,


                        Imagine not the "evidence" that is pushed in at any time. But the LETTERS of the Poles home after the spring of 1940, which came before her, and then abruptly ceased. go.

                        NOBODY saw them after spring 40, did not hear and did not know. Got it?
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Is it not insanity to demand “into the tube” and rely on them almost immediately?

                        build on ... a swamp of figures of infinite LIE? Where is it? fool
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        UU I will answer, The authorities had the right not to say anything to the hostile environment, the authorities did not have the right not to react to such things, and the reaction was evident above.


                        did not answer ANYTHING:
                        1. Show where the power is rightand be silent and lie to your people about the disaster is documented in the Constitution, Law, Ordinance-on the table! ..

                        Which "enemies" are worse when the incompetence of the authorities led to losses greater than during the years of World War II?

                        At the same time about the case cattle and his feed Politburo wrote a lot

                        2. Who and when gave her such a right? The document is on the table!

                        3. Who and when gave them the right NOT to ask the world for help, dooming millions to death?

                        Silent? still would.....
        2. Octopus
          Octopus 28 May 2020 12: 05 New
          -7
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          Only Stalin is in place of GDP, but this is fantastic.

          Yes you are right. Communicating with the Stalinists on the Internet makes me believe that Stalin is exactly what the Russians deserve. The embodiment of the Russian spirit, so to speak.
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          Yeah, statements by the State Duma of the Russian Federation with the recognition of false figures about the famine of the 30s. and recognition of the Polish-Nazi version of Katyn as the truth - is this Russophilia and defending the interests of Russia?

          Of course. It would be in Russia's interests to include the Russian people in the main victim of the USSR, to default, so to speak, the moral debts of the latter, as the Soviet Union defaulted on royal debts or the Russian Federation itself defaulted on Soviet debts to the population in savings banks. Fortunately for Russophobes, the Russian Federation very quickly changed their minds to be a victim of the USSR, and decided, as a whole country, to become a burly veteran of the Great Patriotic War of the 52nd year (in the case of the Russian Federation, 1990, June 12).

          This is good, because honestly. I am always for honesty.
  7. alone
    alone 28 May 2020 10: 25 New
    +2
    The article is certainly good .. There is only one historical inaccuracy ..
    The author correctly showed the example of the 9th mechanized corps, which really heroically fought against the 1st German tank group in the South-West direction ..
    Only now the 1st Tank Group was not commanded by Colonel-General German Goth, but by Field Marshal Ewald von Kleist .. Goth commanded the 3rd TG, which was advancing at the junction of the Western and North-Western Front.
    1. Varyag_0711
      Varyag_0711 28 May 2020 11: 49 New
      +5
      I will also allow you to correct, at the time of 1941 Kleist was Colonel General, he became Field Marshal on February 1, 1943.
      1. alone
        alone 28 May 2020 12: 09 New
        +2
        Quote: Varyag_0711
        I will also allow you to correct, at the time of 1941 Kleist was Colonel General, he became Field Marshal on February 1, 1943.

        You are right .. But I meant in general, and not that moment. And Goth was not lucky to become a field marshal
    2. podymych
      28 May 2020 11: 58 New
      +3
      lonely (Omar Khayyam) Today, 10:25
      Well, of course, you are absolutely right, Ewald von Kleist. Forgive generously, and may the readers forgive us, the authors are evidently in a rage,
  8. Operator
    Operator 28 May 2020 10: 41 New
    +4
    "Hitler Germany posed a mortal threat not only to the USSR, but also to Britain", - why such a hangover: in May 1941, Hitler's personal message was sent to the British government through Hitler’s deputy about the conclusion of a military-political alliance between the Third Reich and the British Empire after the Wehrmacht entered the Arkhangelsk-Astrakhan line in the fall of 1941.

    Churchill would certainly accept this proposal if the Barbarossa plan was implemented within the established 3 months. Only the desperate resistance of the Red Army and the disruption of the planned deadlines of the German Blitzkrieg were a feat for the British in practice, and not on paper, to choose the side of the USSR and jointly carry out a military operation in Iran.

    At the same time, the US leadership began to implement its political strategy towards the USSR and Germany: "If the Germans win, then we will help the Russians, if the Russians - the Germans." The retreat of the Red Army to Moscow automatically activated the first part of the American strategy.

    PS The authors’s link to the 1992 domestic monograph with the repetition of Hitler’s desa from June 22, 1941 that the USSR was planning to deliver a preemptive strike against Germany (despite the fact that the Soviet Union was ready for war was planned for May 1942) smiled separately.
    "Sleeping" - no, I don’t know bully
    1. ccsr
      ccsr 28 May 2020 13: 20 New
      +3
      Quote: Operator
      The authors’s link to the 1992 domestic monograph with the repetition of Hitler’s desa from June 22, 1941 that the USSR was planning to deliver a preemptive strike against Germany (despite the fact that the Soviet Union was ready for war was planned for May 1942) smiled separately.

      Yes, the author of the article, although he wrote a good article, is clearly far from understanding what the Red Army represented on June 22, 1941, which is why it seems to him that if a preventive strike had taken place, we would have immediately defeated Germany and the British for a couple. But this was understood by the entire top leadership of the country, which is why Stalin was so afraid of provoking the Germans at the beginning of the war in May-June 1941 and dreamed of at least somehow pushing it back towards the end of summer or the beginning of autumn, and even better by the end of the year. And the documents of those years say that in May they developed new cover plans for the districts, which stipulated that, in a favorable situation, the troops should be prepared to strike at enemy territory, i.e. all the military leaders knew very well that the war could go on in a completely different scenario, and there would be no military operations on foreign territory at the initial stage of the war.
      1. Operator
        Operator 28 May 2020 14: 32 New
        +1
        The Red Army cover army, by definition, was not intended for a preemptive strike. Moreover, the contents of the red envelopes ordered its advanced units right at the beginning of the war to abandon all rear supply bases located near the border and to withdraw units from under attack in the form of their dispersal in the field, as, for example, was done in the Brest Fortress, from which until the closure of the encirclement ring was planned for most of the units (except for the NKVD troops and the recently arrived Chechen recruits).

        The fronts newly formed from the second decade of June 1941 constituted the second echelon of the Red Army and were deployed in the region of the old border one hundred or more kilometers from the line of the new border, which also indicates the impossibility of a preventive strike on Germany from them. The maximum that was planned to be done with their help is to launch counterattacks on the already invading German troops after the exhaustion of the possibilities of defense by the covering army.

        As a result, the battles in June-July 1941 unfolded in the border strip several hundred kilometers deep in Soviet, and not in German territory. At the same time, “anti-preventive strike” does not happen by definition, the aggressor is definitely the one who struck first - the intentions of the defenders are of no interest to anyone (since it can always be argued that the latter planned to attack the aggressor next year, decade or century). Nevertheless, the Russophobic "historians" - schizophrenics - are still screaming about the preventive strike of the Red Army.
        1. ccsr
          ccsr 28 May 2020 17: 34 New
          +1
          Quote: Operator
          The Red Army cover army, by definition, was not intended for a preemptive strike.

          This is obvious based on the current state of the spacecraft and the presence of non-deployed connections in the border districts
          Quote: Operator
          Moreover, the contents of the red envelopes ordered its advanced units right at the beginning of the war to abandon all rear supply bases located near the border and withdraw units from under attack in the form of their dispersal in the field,

          I think you are wrong here - in the packages there was only an extract from the order of a higher authority, indicating what the commander should do or whoever replaces him, in case of receiving a signal to open the package. As a rule, the deployment location and route are indicated there.
          Quote: Operator
          Nevertheless, the Russophobic "historians" - schizophrenics - are still screaming about the preventive strike of the Red Army.

          I completely agree - such nonsense can be carried only for propaganda purposes, because from the point of view of professionals, this would be a crazy step at that time.
    2. Kronos
      Kronos 28 May 2020 15: 03 New
      0
      No Churchill immediately after the outbreak of the war decided to help the USSR simply because Britain had already lost a lot in the trade war with Germany and the Nazis did not have any problems fighting the resources of the USSR against the British and Americans
  9. BAI
    BAI 28 May 2020 12: 15 New
    -1
    Speaking about the fact that the USSR was preparing for war with Germany, it would not be out of place to recall Stalin's toast at a meeting with graduates of military academies on May 5, 1941:
    “This general did not understand anything. He didn’t understand anything. We Communists are not pacifists, we have always been against unjust wars, imperialist wars for the redivision of the world, for the enslavement and exploitation of the working people. We have always been for just wars for the freedom and independence of peoples, for revolutionary wars for the liberation of peoples from the colonial yoke, for the liberation of peoples from capitalist exploitation, for the most just war in defense of the socialist Fatherland. Germany wants to destroy our socialist state, conquered by the working people under the leadership of the Communist Party of Lenin. Germany wants to destroy our great Motherland, the homeland of Lenin, the conquest of October, to exterminate millions of Soviet people, and to turn the survivors into slaves. Only the war against fascist Germany and the victory in this war can save our homeland. I propose a drink for the war, for the offensive in the war, for our victory in this war ”
  10. Doccor18
    Doccor18 28 May 2020 13: 05 New
    0
    The giant machine of Western propaganda busily bites into the minds of the peoples of the whole world. She works seven days a week. Cunningly and very skillfully, some fundamental concepts will be changed and interpreted. Churchill had almost turned to the Soviet people before Stalin.
    military materials and food began to arrive in the USSR in volumes comparable to domestic production.

    Both the United States and Britain “bombarded” us with food, materials and military equipment, in volumes that turned out to exceed domestic production. Isn’t that nonsense A little more was left before comparing the battles of El Alamein and the Kursk Bulge, seriously comparing the decisive importance of these battles and their significance for the course of the entire war. The whole army of enemies systematically wants to reduce, or even tear out from the memory and history all the Great that the Soviet country and the Soviet people did.
  11. Dmitry V.
    Dmitry V. 28 May 2020 13: 09 New
    0
    As for the notorious “confusion” of the Soviet leadership in the early days of the war, this lie is all the more refuted by numerous facts.

    It depends on what to put in the term “confusion” - the first days there wasn’t even a connection with the fronts - the collapse of command and control. This is confusion.
  12. Dmitry V.
    Dmitry V. 28 May 2020 13: 14 New
    0
    By the way, I recommend that "Star" is now in the evenings: a documentary film in 2020
    "Battle of Betting" Operation Barbarossa 1 episode
    https://www.dokonlin.ru/video/bitva-stavok-operacija-barbarossa-1-seri.html

    This is a question of myths and delusions - everything is documented.
  13. Dmitry V.
    Dmitry V. 28 May 2020 13: 54 New
    0
    Already on June 23, 1941 the Headquarters of the High Command of the Armed Forces of the USSR was created as part of the people's commissar of defense, Marshal S. Timoshenko (its first chairman), chief of the General Staff G. Zhukov, as well as I. Stalin, head of the People's Commissariat of Defense V. Molotov, and marshals K. Voroshilov , S. Budyonny, B. Shaposhnikov and People's Commissar of the Navy Admiral N. Kuznetsov.

    Only there was no communication with the fronts - therefore, delegates sent airplanes to the troops by airplanes - to understand the situation ...
    and after 7 days Minsk was captured and a 250 thousandth group of Soviet troops was surrounded.
    Everything has been disassembled and known for a long time.
    The beginning of the war "Catastrophe" 1941. Bet 1 series on YouTube is easy to find.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 28 May 2020 18: 48 New
      +2
      Quote: Dmitry Vladimirovich
      Only there was no communication with the fronts - therefore, delegates sent airplanes to the troops by airplanes - to understand the situation ...

      EMNIP. there was a connection. But such a mess came from the field that the General Staff decided to send to each direction eye of the sovereignso that they sorted out on the spot.
      The lack of faith in the reports from the field is the bitter experience of Hassan and Khalkhin-Gol, when, upon arriving at the theater, the comrades from the Center suddenly found that the situation was not at all as described in the reports from the field to this Center. EMNIMS, the first "sovereign's eye" was just Zhukov at Khalkhin Gol.
  14. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 28 May 2020 15: 48 New
    +3
    In the collective monograph “1992: Lessons and Conclusions” published by the RF Ministry of Defense in 1941, it was very clearly stated that “the counter-offensive nature of the planned actions was influenced by the location of the troops (Soviet. - Auth.). Moscow intended to forestall the aggression of the Reich with its preemptive strike, but Hitler was tactically ahead of Moscow. ”

    1. Counterattack and preemptive strike are two very different things. A counterattack begins after and in response to an enemy offensive, and a preemptive strike preempts the enemy offensive. It was absolutely impossible for the USSR in 1941 to forestall the enemy in deployment and he was preparing a counterattack, not a preemptive strike.
    2. In 1941, the USSR could no longer be left alone in isolation and in the most important victory of Soviet diplomacy and of course Stalin. Two imperialist coalitions clutched their throats and better beat stood apart and wait until they figure it out among themselves. Stalin did it, but Hitler made a suicidal mistake and no longer hit another exit.
    3. Until the summer of 1943, the role of land-lease and the entire war in the West was insignificant. Then it became already noticeable, but never beat decisive. The USSR could have won (or at least not lost) the war without Lendlis and the Second Front, but without the Soviet Union the Anglo-American bloc was expected to suffer a defeat.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 29 May 2020 00: 14 New
      -1
      "3. Until the summer of 1943, the role of Lendlis and the entire war in the West was not significant." ///
      -----
      1) British tanks went into battle during the counterattack near Moscow.
      Just at a critical moment, when the supply of tanks that were in the Red Army,
      completely over - everyone died, and factories in the Urals have not yet begun to work.
      2) The powerful offensive of 1944 without Lendliz would be impossible.
      Since 1944, the Red Army had a BULK of cartridges, shells, bombs, mines,
      trucks, food. All this ensured the success of Operation Bagration and
      subsequent offensives.
      1. Sugar Honeyovich
        Sugar Honeyovich 29 May 2020 05: 06 New
        0
        Quote: voyaka uh
        Since 1944, the Red Army had a BULK of cartridges, shells, bombs, mines,
        trucks, food. All this ensured the success of Operation Bagration and
        subsequent offensives.

        And what ensured the success of previous offensives? The Red Army reached the state border before Bagration ...
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 29 May 2020 16: 01 New
        0
        Quote: voyaka uh
        1) British tanks went into battle during the counterattack near Moscow.

        A mistake - even before the counteroffensive, during the defense of Moscow. smile
        The presence of “Valentines” at the front line is documented from two sides:

        English-made Soviet tank Valentine II in an ambush during the battle of Moscow. The photo was published in the newspaper "Red Star" No. 275 of November 22 1941 city © waralbum.ru

        The Pz.II tanks pass by the Soviet Valentine’s Mk.III tank, which was lined up near the Istra River. November 25, 1941
  15. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 29 May 2020 00: 06 New
    +3
    The fact that the plan for the evacuation of industry to the Urals was developed in detail
    BEFORE the German attack, I was struck at the time when I read about it.
    Not to Moscow evacuation, but immediately to the Urals!
    And convinced that Stalin after the defeat of France and the difficult Winter War with the Finns,
    He was confident in the defeat of the Red Army in border battles.
    And took a few steps:
    1) the offensive plans that prevailed throughout the 30s were canceled.
    2) a desperate plan of a preventive strike against deployed near the border was developed
    Wehrmacht troops. Able to moderate defeat.
    3) a plan for the evacuation of industry to the Urals was developed.
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 29 May 2020 05: 58 New
      +1
      Quote: voyaka uh
      The fact that the plan for the evacuation of industry to the Urals was developed in detail
      BEFORE the German attack, I was struck at the time when I read about it.

      Not that I would dispute, just if you recall where it came from, then share a reference?
    2. Dmitry V.
      Dmitry V. 29 May 2020 09: 09 New
      +1
      Quote: voyaka uh
      The fact that the plan for the evacuation of industry to the Urals was developed in detail
      BEFORE the German attack, I was struck at the time when I read about it.
      Not to Moscow evacuation, but immediately to the Urals!


      Moreover, sites for the evacuated workshops were planned, on which production was deployed, and premises were being erected in parallel.

      In the modern mob program, mobilization stocks of raw materials are also provided for in strategic industries, workshops and a machine tool stock are preserved in order to be able to quickly launch mass production of weapons - artillery, tanks, ammunition.
      1. ccsr
        ccsr 29 May 2020 12: 14 New
        +1
        Quote: Dmitry Vladimirovich
        In the modern mob program, mobilization stocks of raw materials are also provided for in strategic industries, workshops and a machine tool stock are preserved in order to be able to quickly launch mass production of weapons - artillery, tanks, ammunition.

        Well, do not tell tales, because this program was completely curtailed back in the nineties, and if there are any reserves now, then their maximum will last for a month or a little more. In Soviet times, inventories for various categories of raw materials and supplies could last for at least 4-6 months, and for some even up to a year, which is why the concept of “estimated year” existed if you heard something about it.
        Where did you see such MANDATORY stocks at the enterprises of our oligarchs to claim that we now have it provided?
        1. Fat
          Fat 31 May 2020 15: 02 New
          0
          The whole country was built. What is necessary there? With Emperor Peter? ...
          I'm so left-handed.
          Just born in Izhevsk. I remember something ...
          We have had wood heating for a long time. ..
          Sorry, historians drowned with stocks of rifles and machine guns, rifles .... I even remember the smell ...
    3. ccsr
      ccsr 29 May 2020 12: 03 New
      +2
      Quote: voyaka uh
      1) the offensive plans that prevailed throughout the 30s were canceled.

      There was not a single real plan in the General Staff - there was only a concept, so do not fantasize. And in the border districts, the main planning document was a cover plan, in which an offensive was not previously prescribed.
      Quote: voyaka uh
      a desperate plan for a preventive strike against deployed near the border was developed
      Wehrmacht troops. Able to moderate defeat.

      Lies - there was no such plan from the word at all. Reporting materials are not documents of military planning - at least you should first understand the hierarchy of NPO official documents before you carry out the gag.
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Not to Moscow evacuation, but immediately to the Urals!

      And where else to evacuate, if a month after the start of the war the first bombing of the capital took place? And the letter train from Moscow to Udmurtia could reach in less than a day, which is not decisive given the general terms for the evacuation and restoration of new production. They planned everything correctly - I don’t see anything wrong with that.
    4. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 1 June 2020 10: 50 New
      0
      Quote: voyaka uh
      1) the offensive plans that prevailed throughout the 30s were canceled.

      1. By the time of the acceptance and surrender of the People’s Commissariat of Defense, there was no operational plan of war, operational plans, both general and private, were not developed and lacked.
      The General Staff has no data on the state of covering the borders. The decisions of the military councils of the districts, armies and the front on this issue are unknown to the General Staff.
      © Act of acceptance of NGOs 1940

      And by the way, what offensive plans of the 30s can we talk about if the personnel army in the mid-30s consisted of 20-25 rifle divisions, spread from Vladivostok to Leningrad (and half of them were in the Far East)? The General Staff of the Red Army at that time had a headache about how to fight back from the powerful coalition of Romania, Poland and Finland. And the entry into the war of Japan was generally considered as horror-horror-horror.
    5. strannik1985
      strannik1985 1 June 2020 13: 50 New
      0
      And convinced that Stalin after the defeat of France and the difficult Winter War

      And therefore, Meretskov in September 1940 proposes to advance?
      1) offensive plans that prevailed throughout the 30s were canceled.

      The strategic deployment plan of Shaposhnikov (March - November 1938/19 August 1940) - the same document by Meretsky (September 1940) - "Considerations ..." by Zhukov (May 15, 1941) are fundamentally no different. Cover plans are valid until the concentration of troops at the border, then comes the offensive.
  16. Parsec
    Parsec 29 May 2020 00: 26 New
    +2
    Quote: voyaka uh

    And took a few steps:
    1) the offensive plans that prevailed throughout the 30s were canceled.
    2) a desperate plan of a preventive strike against deployed near the border was developed
    Wehrmacht troops. Able to moderate defeat.


    And name the sources.
    If you imagine the plans themselves, rise incredibly.
    Note Vasilevsky "Considerations ..." do not offer.
    1. Fat
      Fat 31 May 2020 13: 56 New
      -1
      Does the charter of the sun suit? platoon, company, battalion, regiment ...
      1. ccsr
        ccsr 31 May 2020 14: 34 New
        +1
        Quote: Thick
        Does the charter of the sun suit? platoon, company, battalion, regiment ...

        What does the charter of the armed forces have for operational planning of districts, not to mention strategic planning at the level of all armed forces?
  17. Fat
    Fat 31 May 2020 13: 52 New
    0
    Quote: Thick
    Thank. And we think where the commanders disappeared right up to the age of 43 .. Those younger ones threw out the younger ones ... Those and ...

    And how many were there !!? Each, at least 2 years to teach ..
    1. Lepilo
      Lepilo 31 May 2020 14: 01 New
      -3
      Quote: Thick
      Quote: Thick
      Thank. And we think where the commanders disappeared right up to the age of 43 .. Those younger ones threw out the younger ones ... Those and ...

      And how many were there !!? Each, at least 2 years to teach ..

      And they lived in battle for at least 40 minutes (calculation commanders), the comrades also did not last long .. But the Russian infantry there were no statistics at all (it was just scary)
      And nevertheless, they pulled it out and broke the ridge of fascist Europe, and we will repeat it again if that .. In that terrible war, the Russian spirit won first and foremost, and then the weapons of victory, etc.! No wonder Stalin made the first toast to the Russian people!
      Youth put the most educated and advanced, almost EVERYTHING!
      Men from 40-50 years old have already returned from Berlin, etc.
      Well, violinists and piaanists in parallel from the Tashkent front .. They aimed at Moscow, were afraid of Leningrad
  18. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 1 June 2020 21: 41 New
    0
    Quote: voyaka uh
    "3. Until the summer of 1943, the role of Lendlis and the entire war in the West was not significant." ///
    -----
    1) British tanks went into battle during the counterattack near Moscow.
    Just at a critical moment, when the supply of tanks that were in the Red Army,
    completely over - everyone died, and factories in the Urals have not yet begun to work.
    2) The powerful offensive of 1944 without Lendliz would be impossible.
    Since 1944, the Red Army had a BULK of cartridges, shells, bombs, mines,
    trucks, food. All this ensured the success of Operation Bagration and
    subsequent offensives.

    1. When the "critical moment" hit when British tanks went into battle. Of course, a hundred tanks are always better than without them. But Moscow and the USSR did not save any tanks, planes or ships. The Germans were stopped and then retreated by the Soviet infantry and artillery.
    2. Offensives in 1941 and 1942, 1943 and 1944 beat possible without any lendlis. Moreover, Bagration’s operation where they attacked in areas inaccessible to tanks. The offensive of the Red Army was beaten by those more successful and with much fewer tanks, aircraft, heavy artillery, trucks and so on.
    Another example is the successful offensive of the KPA and CPV in Korea in the winter of 1950-51 without any tanks, aircraft or heavy artillery. In the same period, the attitude of the Red Army in 1944 and without land-lease could beat incomparably better armed than the KPA and KND, and German troops were incomparably worse than weapons than the Americans.
  19. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 21 July 2020 15: 19 New
    0
    In the USA, there were NO deaths from starvation, it was even conscientious propagandists WAS embarrassed to write, only post-Soviet marginals invented to justify their own crimes.

    1. Even Wikipedia has today https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_in_the_United_States. This is about our days, not about the 30s.
    2. Look at the lists of "Holodomor victims" in Ukraine and everything will be clear.