Military Review

Foreign Legion Commanders in the Algerian War

209
Foreign Legion Commanders in the Algerian War
Legionnaires in Algeria


In articles “Algerian War of the French Foreign Legion” и Battle for Algeria It was told about the beginning of the war in this overseas department of France, its features and some of the heroes and antiheroes of those years. In this we will continue the story of the Algerian war and talk about some of the famous commanders of the French Foreign Legion, who were at the forefront of this bloody war.

The paratrooper who fought in Algeria, Gregoire Alonso recalled:

“We had fantastic commanders. They treated us well. We were free, we spoke with them, we did not have to constantly greet them. Skydivers are different from the rest. Maybe it's a parachute. Or in the mentality. We did everything together. ”

In the novel “Centurions” by the former legionnaire Jean Lartega, a certain lieutenant tells the main character, Colonel Raspegi (the prototype of which was Marcel Bijard):

“Officers who know how to fight command your people, they are with paratroopers, not with us. Not for us all these Raspies, Bizarre, Jeanpierre, Béchou. ”

A little later we will return to Lartegi, his novel and the film "The Last Squad", in the meantime, we will begin to talk about everything in order.

Pierre Jeanpierre


In the photo below we see a good friend of Jean Graziani (one of the heroes of the previous article). This is Lieutenant Colonel (Lieutenant Colonel) Pierre-Paul Janpierre - he walks along the Champs Elysees at the head of the famous First Parachute Regiment of the Foreign Legion at the parade in honor of Bastille Day in 1957:


This commander was a true legend of the Foreign Legion. He served in the French army since 1930, and entered the legion in 1936. During World War II, Janpierre refused to join both the government forces of Vichy and de Gaulle's “Free France”. Instead, he became a member of the French Resistance (call sign Jardin), on January 9, 1944, was arrested and imprisoned in the Mauthausen-Gusen concentration camp.

To serve in the Legion (the First Parachute Battalion), Janpierre returned in 1948 and was sent almost immediately to Indochina. In October 1950, during the battle of Khao Bang, the military unit of Graziani defended the Tat Ke post, and the Jeanpierre battalion - the Charton strong point. Like Graziani, the wounded Janpierre was captured, in which he spent 4 years, and after his release he was found in such a state that he, too, was ranked as an unofficial "detachment of the living dead."

Having recovered, he took command of the newly created First Parachute Battalion, which on September 1, 1955 became the First Parachute Regiment. Together with him, he ended up in Port Fuad during the Suez crisis, and then fought in Algeria, where Soleil (the Sun) became his call sign. The Blackfoot Albert Camus said of him:

“A hero with a generous heart and disgusting character, a pretty good combination for a leader.”

Janpierre was the beloved commander of the First Parachute Regiment and one of the most famous and respected commanders of the Foreign Legion.

In 1956, he received a shrapnel wound to his legs, but continued to fight, becoming a recognized master of organizing helicopter landing operations.


"Flying Banana" - an American helicopter "N-21 Shauni", used by French paratroopers during the Algerian war


More modern N-34 helicopter

Janpierre also died in a helicopter, providing fire support to the paratroopers - from a bullet fired by one of the rebels. It happened on May 28, 1958, and the phrase “Soleil Est Mort”, “the sun is dead” (or “faded”), transmitted by the pilot on the radio, entered historybecoming legendary.


Lt. Col. Janpierre

The most striking thing is that at the funeral of Janpierre, held on May 31, 10 thousand Muslims - residents of Algerian Helma, came, the road in this city was named after him. This clearly indicates who ordinary Algerians (whom the TNF militants levied on “revolutionary taxes” and slaughtered entire villages and families) were considered real heroes in that bloody war.

Jacques Morin


The deputy deceased Jeanpierre was Major Jacques Moren.


In 1942, he ended up at the Saint-Cyr military school transferred to Aix-en-Provence, but managed to study only 2 months - it was closed at the request of the Germans. After that, the 17-year-old Moren tried three times to cross the border with Spain to get to the territory controlled by Free France from there - each time unsuccessfully. Joining one of the groups of the French Resistance, he was betrayed and in June 1944 he ended up in the Gestapo, and then - in the notorious concentration camp Buchenwald. He had to flee this camp after the Americans liberated him: fearing an epidemic of typhus, the Allies, without thinking twice, quarantined Buchenwald, protecting it with a fence with barbed wire. After completing training and taking a training course in skydiving, Morin went to Indochina. Here, on April 1, 1948, at the age of 24, he became the commander of the very first parachute company of the Foreign Legion - there were no such units in the legion before. On March 31, 1949, soldiers and officers of this company became part of the First Parachute Battalion of Jeanpierre. In 1954, Morin became the commander of the Legion of Honor - the youngest commander in history. Contrary to general expectations, after the death of Jeanpierre, Moren was not appointed commander of the regiment - he was transferred to the headquarters of the 10th parachute division, and later he was appointed inspector of the air forces. The story of Jacques Moren will be completed in the next article.

Eli Denois de Saint Mark



Eli Denois de Saint Mark receives a military award, 1951

The new commander of the First Parachute Regiment of the Foreign Legion was Major de Saint Marc, who was the youngest (9th in a row) child in a provincial noble family from Bordeaux. During World War II, he studied at a Jesuit college, and in June 1941 he entered the Versailles Lyceum of Saint Genevieve, which was considered the preparatory school of Saint-Cyr. However, as we recall, this military school was disbanded in 1942.

Since the spring of 1941, Saint-Marc was a member of Jad Amikol - one of the groups of the French Resistance (at that time he was 19 years old).

July 13, 1943, a detachment of 16 people, which included Saint Mark, tried to cross the border with Spain at Perpignan, but was betrayed as a guide - they all ended up in Buchenwald. Here, Saint Mark met his acquaintance, Jacques Moren, and then, in 1944, was transferred to the Langenstein-Zweiberg camp (Harz district), where, according to eyewitnesses, it was even worse than in Buchenwald. As a result, released in April 1945, Saint Mark weighed 42 kg and could not immediately remember his name.

Ironically, the father of his bride, Marie Antoinette de Chatea Bordeaux, was the commander of the Harz garrison in 1957, and our hero’s wedding took place a few kilometers from the former concentration camp.

But back in 1945: Saint Mark was still able to recover: he was trained in Koetkidan and in 1947 chose the Foreign Legion for the service, which caused considerable confusion among his fellow students - because at that time a large number of Germans hated by all served in the legion .

Saint-Mark was “on business trips” three times in Indochina: in 1948-1949. he was the commander of a post on the border with China, in 1951 he commanded the Indo-Chinese company of the Second Parachute Battalion of the Foreign Legion, in 1954 he arrived in Vietnam after losing to Dienbienfu and spent only a few months there.


Eli Denua de Sen Marc at the head of the Indochina company of the Second Foreign Legion Parachute Battalion

During his last stay in Indochina, he was injured in an unsuccessful parachute jump - his back pain persisted all his life.

In 1955, Saint Mark began his service in the First Parachute Regiment. In 1956, he participated in the operation of his regiment to capture Port Fuad during the Suez crisis.

After de Gaulle declared “Algeria’s self-determination”, Saint Mark left the army: from September 1959 to April 1960 he worked in an electric company, but returned to service - to the post of deputy chief of staff of the 10th division. And in January 1961, Saint Mark led the First Parachute Regiment of the Foreign Legion. In just a few months, he will end up in a French prison, and the prosecutor will demand that he be sentenced to 20 years in prison. The story of Elie Denois de Saint Marc is continued in the next article.

Georges Grillot



Captain Jacques Griillot, Algeria, 1957

In 1959, an unusual detachment was created in the Said sector on the orders of Marcel Bijard, which received its name (“Georges”) after the commander - Captain Georges Grillot (you probably already realized that he was also a member of the French Resistance and fought in Vietnam ) This squad was unusual in its composition - the former soldiers of the Algerian National Liberation Front served in it, that is, it was a Harki unit (they were described in a previous article).

The first volunteers of this detachment arrived directly from the prisons, and Captain Griillot then apparently decided that “a terrible end is better than horror without end”: on the first day he put a loaded pistol at the entrance to his tent and, showing it to former militants, said that they could use him tonight to kill him. Astonished Algerians did not shoot at Grillot, but they respected them very much and did not forget this demonstration of trust.

The number of soldiers of this detachment soon reached 200 people. They entered their first battle on March 3, 1959, together with the 1st company of the Eighth Infantry Regiment, and the general command was carried out by Marcel Bijar himself.


Marcel Bijard and soldiers of the Georges

One of the Algerians captured at that time (Ahmed Bettebgor, who had fought on the side of the TNF since 1956) later received an “offer that cannot be refused”: 15 years in prison or service at Grillot. He chose the detachment "Georges" and did not lose: he rose to the rank of company commander and continued serving in the Foreign Legion with the rank of captain.


Ahmed Bettebgor among the soldiers of the Georges squad (second from right)


Leaflet addressed to the TNF militants: “Muslims, my brothers! Mokrani Mulud is speaking to you. I decided to go over to the French side. Look, they did no harm to me. Do as I do, they won’t do anything to you either. Leave the mountains where you suffer for nothing ”

Under the command of Grillot, former militants destroyed and captured about 1800 of their former “colleagues” in three years and found thousands of caches with weaponshaving received 26 military orders and medals, as well as 400 thanks in orders.


Georges squad on the march


Molotov cocktail bottles found in one of the caches of the TNF

But the end of this story was very sad: after the Evian agreements were concluded, the Georges were invited to join the Foreign Legion and leave their families to go with him to France or return home, where they were likely to die. Captain Grillot ordered to put in front of each of his fighters berets of different colors: red and black. The Red Beret, symbolizing the Foreign Legion, was chosen by 24 people out of 204 - it was the right choice, these soldiers were the most fortunate. Because by May 9, 1962, 60 Georges detachments remaining in Algeria Harki were killed. Among them were three company commanders. Two of them, Riga and Bendida, after long bullying and torture, were beaten to death.


Riga, commander of one of the companies of the Georges squad, March 1961

Another commander, named Habib, was killed, having been forced to dig a grave for himself. Some of the Harki Detachment Georges ended up in Algerian prisons. Most of the others, thanks to the efforts of General Cantarelle and Captain Grillot, were taken to France, where they ended up in two refugee camps, until banker Andre Worms, who had previously served in the Saeed sector, bought a farm in Dordogne for them.

Georges Guillot rose to the rank of general and wrote the book "Die for France?"

His deputy in the Georges detachment, Arman Benezis de Rotrou, took part in the rebellion of the army in April 1961 (more on that in the next article), but escaped his arrest: his bosses transferred him to a distant garrison in the department of Constantine, where he again commanded Harki . He retired with the rank of lieutenant colonel.


Arman Benezis de Rotrou

Again about Bijar


In a previous article, we talked about the movie “Battle for Algeria” by Gillo Pontecorvo. But in the same 1966, Canadian director Mark Robson made another film about the Algerian war - “The Lost Command”, in which viewers saw stars of the first magnitude, including Alain Delon and Claudia Cardinal.

The script was based on the novel Centurions, written by Jean Lartegui, who fought in the First Group of the commandos of the Free French Army during World War II, after serving for 7 years, served in the Foreign Legion, resigning as captain, then as a military journalist visited many “hot spots” of the world, met with Che Guevara.

The action of both the novel and the film begins with the story of the battle of Dienbienf. Returning from Vietnam, the main character (Pierre Raspegi) finds himself in Algeria, where it is also very difficult. The famous Legionnaire Marcel Bijard became the prototype of Raspega (we already talked about him and the battle of Dienbienf in the article “Foreign Legion Against Vietnam and the Dienbienfu Catastrophe”) Performed this role, Anthony Quinn wrote on a photograph donated to Bijar:

“You were him, and I just played him.”


Marcel Bijard and Jean Lartegui


Cover of La Nouvelle Revue d'Histoire magazine with a portrait of Bijar, called the "Centurion of the Republic"

Images from the film “The Missing Squad”:



Anthony Quinn as Lt. Col. Raspega, still in Vietnam

Alain Delon as captain Esclavier and Anthony Quinn as lieutenant colonel Raspega - already in Algeria:


Captain of the Foreign Legion Esclavier (Alain Delon) and Arab terrorist Aisha (Claudia Cardinale):


If you read the article “Foreign Legion Against Vietnam and the Dienbienfu Catastrophe”then remember that Alain Delon served on navy and was in Saigon in 1953-1956. If you haven’t read it, open it and see: there are some very interesting photographs.

This film also turned out to be quite tough. It is shown, for example, how, having found killed colleagues on the road, paratrooper legionnaires with knives in their hands go to avenge them in the nearest village, not paying attention to Esclavier, who got in their way with a gun in his hands.

And this is a shot from the movie "Close Enemies", filmed in 1979 by Florent Emilio Siri - also Algeria, 1959:


Pierre Bueschou


This officer in 1954 (the time of the beginning of the Algerian war) was already 41 years old. He graduated from Saint-Cyr Military School in 1935 and was sent to serve in Metz. In the 1940 combat campaign, he commanded a sabotage group and managed to get the Legion of Honor. After the surrender of France, he went to his grandmother's house and was extradited by his neighbors. He was held captive until April 7, 1945, when he was released by the Red Army units that entered Vienna. The French command promoted him to captain and appointed him to work at the Soviet headquarters: for 2 months he was engaged in assistance to French prisoners of war, for which he received the rank of officer of the Legion of Honor. In 1947, Byushu ended up in Indochina - he commanded the 2nd company of the First Parachute Battalion of the Foreign Legion: in his composition, he participated in Operation Lea, the purpose of which was to capture Ho Chi Minh and Vo Nguyen Ziapa (then neither one nor the other was captured managed). After being wounded, Büschu returned to France, where he was engaged in teaching, and on April 2, 1956 he was commanded by the Eighth Parachute Regiment. There was an Algerian war, and Bushu's subordinates were given the task of controlling the border with Tunisia, from where fighters trained in special camps were coming in a continuous stream. In late April - early May 1958, this regiment distinguished itself in battles at Suk-Arase. In September 1958, Byushu received the rank of colonel, in January 1961 he became commander of the La Calais sector (named after the port city), and in April 1961 he was arrested in the case of a rebellion led by Raul Salan. You can learn about his future fate by reading the following article.

Philip Erulen


Erulen, on the contrary, was very young (born in 1932) and therefore did not take part either in World War II or in the war in Indochina, but his father was a member of the French Resistance and died in Indochina in 1951. After graduating from the military school of Saint-Cyr, he was from 1956 to 1959. served in Algeria, was wounded twice and was awarded the Legion of Honor at the age of 26. Later, French liberals accused him of torturing and killing a member of the TNF armed group, Maurice Aden, in 1957, but failed to prove anything (which, in my opinion, speaks very well of their level of competence and ability to collect evidence). In July 1976, Erulen was appointed commander of the Second Parachute Regiment of the Foreign Legion, and Ante Gotovina, the future general of the Croatian army, convicted by the International Tribunal for crimes against the civilian Serb population, but later acquitted, became his personal driver.


Ante Gotovina

Ahead of Erulen was the famous operation “Bonite” (better known as “Leopard”) in Kolwezi, which is studied in military schools around the world as an example of “military professionalism and effective protection of fellow citizens”. We will definitely talk about this operation in one of the following articles.


Philip Erulen (left) and Colonel Grasse, head of the military mission in Zaire. 1978 year

Philip Erulen’s brother, Dominique, was also a paratrooper officer, but didn’t “work together” with Francois Mitterrand and, having left the service, he headed the private security service of former President Giscard d'Estaing.

The next article will tell about the operation "Renaissance", the end of the Fourth Republic, the "betrayal" of Charles de Gaulle, the desperate attempt of Raul Salan and his associates to save French Algeria, as well as the song "Je ne regrette rien".


In preparing the article, the materials of the blog of Urzova Ekaterina were used:
About the Lartegi novel: https://catherine-catty.livejournal.com/545071.html
Testimonies of paratroopers: https://catherine-catty.livejournal.com/324492.html
The story of Jeanpierre: https://catherine-catty.livejournal.com/367366.html
The Story of Morena: https://catherine-catty.livejournal.com/335219.html
Story of Saint Mark: https://catherine-catty.livejournal.com/464448.html
The story of Georges Grillot and the Georges squad: https://catherine-catty.livejournal.com/344827.html
The story of Bijar (by tag): https://catherine-catty.livejournal.com/tag/%D0%91%D0%B8%D0%B6%D0%B0%D1%80%20%D0%9C%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%81%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C
The story of Bush: https://catherine-catty.livejournal.com/1017835.html
The story of Erulen: https://catherine-catty.livejournal.com/383964.html
Also in the article, quotes from French sources translated by Catherine Urzova were used.
Some of the photos are taken from the same blog.
Author:
Articles from this series:
Ryzhov V.A. Dogs of War of the French Foreign Legion
Ryzhov V. A. Russian volunteers of the French Foreign Legion
Ryzhov V. A. The most famous Russian “graduates” of the French Foreign Legion. Zinovy ​​Peshkov
Ryzhov V. A. The most successful Russian “legionnaire”. Rodion Malinovsky
Ryzhov V. A. French Foreign Legion in the First and Second World Wars
Ryzhov V.A. Foreign Legion against Vietnam and the Dienbienf Catastrophe
Ryzhov V. A. "Fire in the Empire." Foreign Legion after World War II
Ryzhov V.A. Algerian war of the French Foreign Legion
Ryzhov V.A. https://topwar.ru/171467-bitva-za-alzhir.html
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  1. Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 29 May 2020 18: 44 New
    +9
    Intriguing trailer for future articles. Like Coming Soon wink
  2. Operator
    Operator 29 May 2020 18: 48 New
    +3
    This Frenchman is a member of the Resistance, that Frenchman is a member of the Resistance, and the Red Army soldiers who escaped from captivity had to fight in partisans in the territory of occupied France. But after the liberation, most of the paddling people signed up for poppies - such as mugs writhing behind the Boches when they shockly stabbed for the Third Reich.

    The author’s approach is clear - colonial punishers are the best people in France (you can’t argue with that) laughing
    1. VLR
      29 May 2020 18: 57 New
      +9
      There were very few ethnic French in the Resistance and in the Free French troops - this is a fact. And it just so happened that many of these last real French soldiers ended up in the OAS and Delta. Almost all of them are young veterans of the Second World War and subsequent wars. And among their opponents are many former collaborators, led by de Gaulle. This is the irony of fate.
      In the following articles there will be a lot of new (for the main group of readers) and extremely interesting information.
      1. Operator
        Operator 29 May 2020 19: 10 New
        -4
        You do not have a logical approach to the topic covered - a fighter against German Nazism cannot, by definition, become a French Nazi. Therefore, the so-called participants of the French Resistance, they are also military personnel of the Foreign Legion, during the occupation they sat on the priest exactly and did not notice anything except for the desire to make their legs - to cross the border with Spain.
        1. VLR
          29 May 2020 19: 27 New
          +6
          The OAS members were not Nazis! They fought equally for the Blackfoot, and for the Evolves and Harki, against the FLN militants and against those in France who wanted loyal Arabs and Berbers to be punished by the FLN militants. OAS slandered de Gaulle and the "minorities" who wanted to rid France of the Arabs, but it turned out even worse. Details in the following articles.
          1. Operator
            Operator 29 May 2020 19: 44 New
            -2
            Algeria was not France, the vast majority of Algerians wanted to get rid of their colonial status (loyalists - collaborators were a minority), therefore, any representative of the metropolis who opposes the national liberation of the colonized nation is a Nazi - putting his nation above a colonized nation on the basis of racist theory.

            At the same time, one should not confuse the national liberation movement in the colonies (for France it is Indochina and Algeria) with the separatist movement inside the country - in the same Corsica, where the population was not infringed in rights as in Algeria or Indochina.

            In any case, the Foreign Legion after WWII in fact became a French punitive unit (having experience of war only with slippers) and cannot be considered as an army military unit.
            1. VLR
              29 May 2020 19: 50 New
              0
              To answer, I need to briefly retell the following two articles. Take your time, read them, maybe after that you will agree with my conclusions on something.
              1. Operator
                Operator 29 May 2020 19: 54 New
                -3
                Send your articles to the UN as a reinforced concrete basis for canceling an article of the Charter on the right of nations to self-determination.
                1. VLR
                  29 May 2020 20: 04 New
                  +5
                  By the way, there will be a short story about how Algeria was under the French, and what it turned into after gaining independence.
                  1. Operator
                    Operator 29 May 2020 20: 52 New
                    +5
                    What does the country have to do with it, we are talking about the overwhelming majority of the population, and how they arranged their own country there is none of our business.
                  2. ccsr
                    ccsr 30 May 2020 11: 23 New
                    -4
                    Quote: VlR
                    By the way, there will be a short story about how Algeria was under the French, and what it turned into after gaining independence.

                    What does this have to do with military review? Maybe it would be better to state it at some socio-political forum, because on VO and so different turbidity is enough.
            2. Jünger
              Jünger 29 May 2020 21: 52 New
              +5
              Quote: Operator
              therefore, any representative of the metropolis who opposes the national liberation of the colonized nation is a Nazi - placing his nation above a colonized nation on the basis of racist theory

              Delirium is enchanting. You immediately apply this to Chechnya and Dagestan. There is no difference with Algeria. It's just that the French there with the Arabs gave up the slack, but the Russians still hold. But if such a rumor about "self-determination" and "national liberation" spreads in society, we will be in the same place as France in the near future.
              1. Operator
                Operator 29 May 2020 23: 50 New
                +3
                Learn the materiel: Algeria was part of the French Union, and Chechnya is part of the Russian Federation (the United Nations article on territorial integrity applies to the Russian Federation).
                1. Jünger
                  Jünger 30 May 2020 00: 08 New
                  +5
                  The UN is a worthless almshouse along with its articles. Talk about unions and federations is an idle talk. Algeria was part of France and was conquered almost like the Caucasus. Well, the latter is tougher of course. Conversations about self-determination, colonization, freedom, equality, fraternity and so on - this nonsense was invented by left-wing politicians to destroy a healthy traditional European society.
                  Those who know how to think and work have rights. Arabs are definitely not one of those.
                  1. Operator
                    Operator 30 May 2020 12: 19 New
                    -4
                    If the UN is a do-it-yourself house, why didn’t France leave it in protest against the support by UN members (USSR, USA, Egypt, Tunisia and other Arab countries) of the Algerian national liberation movement against the French colonialists?

                    Maybe because by the middle of the 20th century the French had squandered up to frogs without eggs, which did not have the courage to defend their interests in Algeria themselves, and not hire mercenaries from the Foreign Legion, not? laughing
        2. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 29 May 2020 20: 02 New
          +3
          Quote: Operator
          a fighter against German Nazism cannot, by definition, become a French Nazi. Therefore, the so-called participants of the French Resistance, they are also military personnel of the Foreign Legion, during the occupation they sat on the priest exactly and did not notice anything except for the desire to make their legs - to cross the border with Spain.

          A fighter against any Arab “national liberation” movement cannot be a Nazi, because he fights against Hitler's sympathizers and obscurantism reciprocating him. )))
          1. Operator
            Operator 29 May 2020 20: 56 New
            +4
            That's it you Jewish Nazis, in the 1930s, in a hickey, who loved the German Nazis for facilitating the trip to Palestine and are now building racially pure Israel on the lands of the Palestinian Authority, you do not recognize them as such.
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 29 May 2020 23: 29 New
              +5
              Quote: Operator
              That's it you Jewish Nazis, in the 1930s, in a hickey, who loved the German Nazis for facilitating the trip to Palestine and are now building racially pure Israel on the lands of the Palestinian Authority, you do not recognize them as such.

              Who loved why, why? )))
              In 1933, after Hitler came to power, the Jews of Europe and the United States declared a boycott of German goods, in which no country in the world supported them.
              In racially pure Israel, there are, in addition to a million Muslims, 400 thousand Slavs and other representatives of the peoples of the USSR who do not want to leave the country of "racism".
              And who did they build on the "lands of the Palestinian Authority?" lol
              But the leader of the Palestinian Arabs, Hajj Amin El Husseini, was a personal friend of Hitler, organized a Muslim SS battalion of Bosnians, which later expanded to the Khanjar division. hi
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 30 May 2020 00: 43 New
                  +5
                  laughing
                  1) Regarding the medal - a Jewish judge and member of the country's Zionist Council Kurt Tohler, together with a journalist-member of the NSDAP Leopold von Mildstein, went to Palestine, the latter was a journalist and described it as an attractive place for Jews. The 34 department of Goebbels issued this medal, after a series of publications in the journal Der Angriff ("Attack") of 12 articles by Mildstein under the heading "Nazi in Palestine".
                  However, in the same year, Tohler was removed from refereeing - Jews were removed from their posts, then their businesses were closed, then they were sent to concentration camps.
                  2)
                  In 1933, all Jewish organizations warmly welcomed the Nazis to power, as they counted on their assistance in deporting Jews to Palestine.

                  In London, New York, Paris and Warsaw, Jewish merchants unite for a commercial crusade against Germany ... A large number of sellers in London decided to stop buying German goods ... Hundreds of thousands of outraged Jews called in mass rallies in New York and other American cities to wholesale boycott of German goods. An embargo on trade with Germany has already been introduced in Poland. In France, the proposed ban on the import of goods from Germany is currently widely campaigned in Jewish circles. A concerted boycott of the Jewish world by buyers will result in serious damage to German export trade ... The Jewish Youth Union in the UK will organize demonstrations in London and the provinces over the coming weekend. A council of British Jewish deputies representing the entire Jewish community in the UK will discuss the situation at a special session on Sunday to decide what measures should be taken to counter attacks on their German tribesmen ... American unions representing 3000000 workers also decided to join the protest.
                  March 24, 1933 Daily Express, London wink
                  3)
                  After that, the SS troops began training young Jews of both sexes in sabotage and agricultural professions (as a cover). Until September 1939, over 50 thousand German Jews - saboteurs were sent to Palestine. For this reason, Britain ceased to accept any European immigrant Jews at all.

                  lol
                  Britain ceased accepting Jews because of the Arab revolt of 1936-39. 50 thousand saboteurs from 600 thousand of the Jewish population of Germany to recruit is cool ... but how many grandmothers should have prepared them, and how left the selection should have been ...)))) Given that 400 thousand Jews left Germany for about 4 years, it's just a great selection and training of special forces!
                  But - 60 thousand Jews arrived in Palestine from Germany. Of these, 5 thousand children under a special program. It remains 55 thousand. About 20 thousand were people with higher education - doctors, engineers, architects, university lecturers. There were old people and adult housewives. Businessmen and confectioners. Do not you think that the numbers are something wrong ... I'm already silent about common sense laughing
                  1. ccsr
                    ccsr 30 May 2020 11: 31 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Krasnodar
                    In London, New York, Paris and Warsaw, Jewish merchants unite for a commercial crusade against Germany ...
                    We know how you now "unite" against the Baltic and Ukrainian Nazis, who no longer hide their anti-Semitic views, and you are driving Poroshenko to the wailing wall. We would be ashamed to remind you of the boycott of German goods - you simply removed your competitors, and this is a well-known trick, and you present it to us almost like a war to the Nazis. Now the same is happening with our joint venture-2, so we know how you can "fight" in the interests of bank capital.
                    1. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 30 May 2020 11: 41 New
                      +4
                      Uti-pusi, do not remember about the Nazis legal in Syria? laughing SSNP party - their militants are fighting on the side of Assad wink
                      About competitors is also fun. The Jews, it turns out, had their own industry, and as for Gunpowder, nobody seems to have interrupted diplomatic relations with the government of the junta, including Russia.
                2. A. Privalov
                  A. Privalov 30 May 2020 11: 40 New
                  -3
                  The commemorative medal is real. It was given to everyone who purchased Angriff's subscription at that time and thus read articles from Mildstein's "Palestinian" series.
                  Everything else is a lie and an anti-Semitic trick worthy of careful consideration in the light of Article 282 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation. "Incitement of hatred or enmity, as well as humiliation of human dignity."
                  Actions aimed at inciting hatred or enmity, as well as at humiliating the dignity of a person or a group of persons on the grounds of sex, race, nationality, language, origin, religion, as well as belonging to any social group, committed publicly, including using the media or information and telecommunication networks, including the Internet.

                  Moreover, it is not the first time you have appeared on the pages of VO with provocative and offensive statements.
    2. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 29 May 2020 19: 07 New
      0
      There were not only and not so much soldiers from the Red Army, but a hodgepodge of children of white emigrants, communists, fugitive prisoners of war (not only Red Army soldiers), ultra-right Catholics and Jews.
      1. Operator
        Operator 29 May 2020 19: 19 New
        +1
        "fugitive prisoners of war" - everything is clear with you, especially amused by your misinformation "not only the Red Army men" (like many, many prisoners of war Belgians, Dutch and other collaborators have come to France) laughing

        There is no need to whistle about the French Jews (supposedly members of the French Resistance), whom the French handed over to the Germans in batches, and the few remaining sat in the basements like mice under a broom. In reality, only Soviet Jews participated in the partisan movement, in whom the Russian people managed to instill a sense of human dignity in the USSR, while European Jews went to concentration camps like rams for slaughter.
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 29 May 2020 19: 32 New
          +1
          The resistance movement was attended by 3 thousand Soviet citizens who ended up in France [6], as well as Russian emigrants living in France
          ---
          The 1st Soviet partisan regiment in France was created by order of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief of the USSR Armed Forces of August 22, 1944 [8] on the basis of Armenian partisan detachments in the city of Nimes and, to a large extent, from former legionaries of the Wehrmacht Armenian Legion [9]. Major A. Kazarya was appointed commander of the regiment.
          -----
          In the ranks of the Resistance also fought the French Jews, who created the organization fr. Organization Juive de Combat. Among them there were many emigrants from Russia
          -----
          German anti-fascists; Spaniards, who were represented by various national and political forces (Basques, Catalans, left-wing supporters, etc.); Former Soviet prisoners of war who organized about 35 partisan detachments in France; Ukrainians; Jews Armenians Kazakhs.


          Source: https://mirfrance.ru/francuzskoe-soprotivlenie-vo-vtoroj-mirovoj-vojne/
          -----
          There were also British prisoners of war who fled from the camps, many of whom were involved in coordinating the delivery of weapons, etc. from the island laughing
          1. Operator
            Operator 29 May 2020 19: 52 New
            +3
            In the French Resistance, only the former Soviet prisoners of war, white emigrants and French communists fought precisely. The rest carried out one-time orders that were not related to armed operations (like - to risk figs).

            As for the Ukrainians, Armenians and Kazakhs, I did not understand - were they not Soviet prisoners of war? laughing

            As for the French Jews - "members of the Resistance" you can whistle further.
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 29 May 2020 19: 56 New
              +1
              laughing
              This is a long-known fact - about Jews
              Armenians - mostly local, French, in large numbers
              Kazakhs - I don't know
              Ukrainians - come after the Civil War
          2. the finish
            the finish 30 May 2020 22: 31 New
            +1
            My grandfather’s neighbor in a village in Armenia fought in resistance after escaping from German captivity. He had many Soviet and French awards.
    3. Legionista
      Legionista 29 May 2020 20: 10 New
      0
      You, expressing your point of view, allowed yourself to offend the nation, otherwise how to consider the expression “paddlers”? After that, your expression “colonial punitive” is only perplexing. In Russia, often they are indignant (and rightly so) that the West does not know the history of our country well. But! We ourselves, sometimes know little enough the history of other countries. The author of this series of articles gives us the opportunity to obtain information that was unknown to most. Please be respectful.
      1. Operator
        Operator 29 May 2020 20: 47 New
        +2
        Frogs - in the sense of the Allies of the Third Reich, collaborators, colonialists, punishers who naturally corrupted their Muslim homeland France.

        Abydna, yesaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?
        1. Legionista
          Legionista 29 May 2020 22: 33 New
          -2
          I can not agree with you. You are very superficially reasoning. Perhaps this is due to the fact that you can not independently study the history of France (perhaps due to lack of knowledge of the French language). If you read the rest of the articles in this series, you may change your point of view. And, by the way, in Russian there is no word “abydin”. There is a word "offensive." It is written with "o" and through "and". Both letters are vowels. Stress in the word “and”.
          1. Operator
            Operator 30 May 2020 00: 06 New
            -4
            This is a neologism of the Russian language - an imitation of the accent of native speakers of oriental languages.

            Tip: read about France and the French in Russian - you will learn a lot of new things (Notre Dame Mosque, etc.)
            1. Dr. Frankenstucker
              Dr. Frankenstucker 30 May 2020 14: 05 New
              +2
              Quote: Operator
              (Notre Dame Mosque, etc.)


              and this, it turns out, is the history of France?
          2. ccsr
            ccsr 30 May 2020 11: 48 New
            +2
            Quote: Legionista
            You are very superficially reasoning. Perhaps this is due to the fact that you can not independently study the history of France (perhaps due to lack of knowledge of the French language).

            In France, there are an order of magnitude fewer people who study the history of Russia in Russian, but we do not suffer from this. And then who told you that we do not know the history of France, because you will hardly find such a huge number of books by French writers as published in RI and the USSR in another country. And our historical attachment to French culture began long before Napoleon appeared. So your "wishes" only testify to the fact that you don't know a thing about our history as well as the education system, and attempts at moralizing look ridiculous or like a typical propaganda line.
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 30 May 2020 13: 30 New
              +1
              A very limited circle of professionals knew the French history of the WWII period until the 80s of the 20th century in the USSR. Not Quebec, let's put it this way)).
              1. Legionista
                Legionista 30 May 2020 14: 50 New
                +2
                A very limited circle of professionals knew the French history of WWI until the 80s of the 20th century in the USSR

                Unfortunately, you are right. That is why the history of the Expeditionary Force in France and Greece has long been a dark spot in our own history. By the way, all Russian soldiers who died on the battlefield, or in hospitals, are buried in military cemeteries. Each grave has a special sign (Le Souvenir Français).
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 30 May 2020 15: 26 New
                  +2
                  I first read about the participation of RI soldiers in the database on the Western Front in Russian in the early 0s. When the Union did not hear about it at all.
              2. ccsr
                ccsr 30 May 2020 18: 21 New
                +2
                Quote: Krasnodar
                A very limited circle of professionals knew the French history of the WWII period until the 80s of the 20th century in the USSR. Not quebec say so

                We have not lived as many ethnic French people as in Quebec - compared ... with a finger ...
                And our schoolchildren began to study the history of France immediately after reading "The Three Musketeers" - apparently you have not read this book and have not seen the famous film in the sixties.
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 30 May 2020 18: 50 New
                  -1
                  No, I began my acquaintance with French literature right away with the 120 days of Sodom, but then with Italian cinema. fellow
                  Those. in the USSR studied the history of France with WWI until the 70s? Chet is hard to believe
      2. Dr. Frankenstucker
        Dr. Frankenstucker 30 May 2020 14: 13 New
        +2
        Well, apparently, the comrade is a militant ethnopassionary. Such tirelessly hang labels, while smoking incense of one chosen nation. Everything around is just dirt under someone's invincible boot. At the same time, they reject all reproaches of nationalism in their address. They pick out signs of Nazism even from where it is not.
        1. Legionista
          Legionista 30 May 2020 14: 19 New
          +2
          well, apparently, comrade - a militant ethnopassionary

          Or a former political officer)
          1. Dr. Frankenstucker
            Dr. Frankenstucker 30 May 2020 16: 56 New
            +1
            There are no former political leaders! laughing
    4. Normal ok
      Normal ok 29 May 2020 22: 33 New
      -4
      Quote: Operator
      This Frenchman is a member of the Resistance, that Frenchman is a member of the Resistance, and the Red Army soldiers who escaped from captivity had to fight in partisans in the territory of occupied France. But after the liberation, most of the paddling people signed up for poppies - such as mugs writhing behind the Boches when they shockly stabbed for the Third Reich.
      The author’s approach is clear - colonial punishers are the best people in France (you can’t argue with that) laughing

      "You see, there is a cross on the mountain. There are ten soldiers under it. Hang on it. And when you get tired, come back. Walk on the water together." (Butusov)
      1. Operator
        Operator 30 May 2020 00: 09 New
        +2
        Where did Butusov himself visit - in Afghanistan, Chechnya, Yugoslavia (a rhetorical question)? For example, I was in Grozny in 1996.
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 30 May 2020 09: 38 New
          +4
          And how did you make friends with the Arabs? )))
    5. 72jora72
      72jora72 30 May 2020 07: 21 New
      +3
      The author’s approach is clear - colonial punishers are the best people in France (you can’t argue with that)
      And what is the contradiction? He is not here. People served their homeland, they thought it was right. That is why they fought in the "Resistance", and did not hide in Britain, or lick the boots of the invaders as "vichy".
    6. Dr. Frankenstucker
      Dr. Frankenstucker 30 May 2020 11: 24 New
      +1
      use every opportunity to surf?))
    7. Basil50
      Basil50 30 May 2020 13: 43 New
      0
      to the operator
      You correctly noticed about the paddling pools. France was not defended during WWII, but was marked by ferocity and bloodthirstiness in the colonies, then in the interests of the Japanese Germans, then in the interests of the British and Americans.
      I met in the German press what the Nazi * ss * created as a cast from the French * foreign legion *. The selection criteria were similar as well as * buns * for the service. Not for nothing that after WWII, too many Germans hid in * and. l. *. They were changed their names and French citizenship was granted regardless of war crimes, including in France itself.
    8. Major48
      Major48 2 June 2020 02: 04 New
      0
      In addition, the punishers of two Ukrainian schutzmanshaftsbatalony were recorded in poppies. And in order not to give them SMERSH, they shaved them into the 13th half-brigade of the Foreign Legion. They still managed to fight in Germany against their former masters.
  3. Senior seaman
    Senior seaman 29 May 2020 19: 16 New
    +7
    Very interesting. Thank.
    I, by a sinful deed, knew about the relationship between legionnaires and the French government only from the novel "The Day of the Jackal" by Forsythe.
    1. VLR
      29 May 2020 19: 23 New
      +5
      In this film - about another organization, not about the OAS and not about the "Delta" - "Senior Staff", mysterious, still little is known about it. I'll tell you a little at the end of the next article. One of its members, the chief engineer of the Air Force, compared himself with Stauffenberg, and de Gaulle with Hitler, and became the last person to be shot by a court decision in France. The road on which he was taken to execution was guarded by 2000 people - they were so afraid.
      1. Senior seaman
        Senior seaman 29 May 2020 19: 35 New
        +9
        Are you talking about Bastien Tiri?
        As for the film, how good the novel is, the Hollywood film adaptation is just as terrible.
        1. VLR
          29 May 2020 19: 51 New
          +2
          Yes, about him.
          1. Liam
            Liam 30 May 2020 17: 25 New
            +1
            The author. Here you are directly accused of plagiarism. Moreover, not only this article is plagiarized. They threaten with troubles)


            Learn how to write articles.

            How to write articles on the "War in Algeria"? Learn French, travel to France and Algeria, buy books, read, scan pictures ... Why? After all, there is my blog.

            A certain Ryzhov VA writes articles on the website "Military Review".


            https://catherine-catty.livejournal.com/1040937.html?utm_source=3userpost
            1. VLR
              30 May 2020 21: 01 New
              +1
              We have already figured it out and settled everything, put the necessary links. At my request, Catherine also read the next article in the series and recommended putting two references to her materials, photographs, and translations.
              1. Liam
                Liam 30 May 2020 21: 07 New
                +2
                Dura lex sed lex
        2. Catfish
          Catfish 29 May 2020 19: 56 New
          +3
          Ivan hi , here I do not agree with you, the film makes a strong impression. I read Foresight before watching the film, of course, and knew the content well, but it was still interesting to watch the film. Agree, to film any book in full is simply not physically possible. There have been such attempts, but there is no patience to watch these tyagomotins. smile
          1. Senior seaman
            Senior seaman 29 May 2020 19: 59 New
            +2
            The taste and color, as they say ...
            KVM in vain action was transferred to America.
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 29 May 2020 20: 03 New
              +2
              Where is America on Jackal Day? Are we talking about the same film?
              1. Senior seaman
                Senior seaman 29 May 2020 20: 06 New
                +3
                I would immediately say about Hollywood film adaptation with Bruce Willis and Richard Gere.
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 29 May 2020 20: 09 New
                  +4
                  Sorry, Ivan, I don’t understand you. I meant, of course, a French film. M-yes, misunderstandings happen from scratch. smile
                  And I don’t remember American at all, or simply didn’t see it.
                  1. Senior seaman
                    Senior seaman 29 May 2020 20: 11 New
                    +3
                    Unfortunately, I did not watch the adaptation of Fred Zineman.
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish 29 May 2020 20: 33 New
                      +5
                      Ivan, look, you will not regret it, it's worth it! good
                      Moreover, the scene of the attempt on de Gaulle on the way to the airport was shot with almost documentary accuracy.
                    2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                      Kote Pan Kokhanka 29 May 2020 20: 37 New
                      +4
                      Quote: Senior Sailor
                      Unfortunately, I did not watch the adaptation of Fred Zineman.

                      In vain they lost a lot !!!
                      Regards, Kote !!!
  4. Legionista
    Legionista 29 May 2020 19: 52 New
    +4
    In 1959, an unusual detachment was created in the Said sector on the orders of Marcel Bijard, which received its name ("Georges") after the commander - Captain Georges Grillot
    This unit (Commando GEORGES) was a unit for counter-guerrilla warfare of the so-called “Commando de chasse” at the time of its formation in 1959 consisted of 4 katibas in each of 3 sticks of 10 people. By 1961 there were already 11 sticks consisting, respectively, of 2 groups of 11 people. Each group contained one AA52 machine gun. The l / s were also armed with a 9mm submachine gun “MAT 49”, a 7,5mm rifle “MAS36”, a semi-automatic rifle “MAS49”. The motto of this unit was “Chasser la misère”, which can be translated as “relieve suffering”
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 29 May 2020 19: 58 New
      +2
      Is this name accidentally not associated with the old knight's stylet for a “blow of mercy”?
      1. Legionista
        Legionista 29 May 2020 20: 14 New
        +4
        I do not know. Not sure. The “punch of mercy” will sound like “coup de grâce” hi
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 29 May 2020 20: 22 New
          +3
          Thanks - it means it’s not connected)). hi
  5. Catfish
    Catfish 29 May 2020 20: 01 New
    +5
    Thank you, Valery. hi You read about these guys, and inevitably you wonder, but where were they all in the fortieth year? And in general, one gets the impression that having signed a shameful surrender with the Germans, after the end of the Second World War, the French rushed "all bad", as if trying to prove to the whole world that they could also fight. None of this, however, came of it. request
    1. Legionista
      Legionista 29 May 2020 20: 29 New
      +3
      You are partly right. In general, the history of the defeat of France in 1940 is a very sore subject for the French. A generation of young officers and soldiers who were ashamed of their fathers tried to prove their ability to fight enemies. The choice of enemies was on the conscience of politicians, but not soldiers. With Algeria, things are not so simple. The author many times absolutely correctly emphasized that Algeria was not a colony, but part of France. Any Muslim could become a citizen of France, but! for this, he had to indicate in writing that he was not a polygamist and that he would not live according to Sharia law. This was the main reason that not everyone had Fr. citizenship. By the way, this rule is still valid today. All arrivals from countries where polygamy is permitted must confirm that they have one wife (or are not married)
    2. 72jora72
      72jora72 30 May 2020 07: 26 New
      +2
      You read about these guys, and you involuntarily wonder, where were they all in the fortieth year?
      Well, if you carefully read all the articles of the author, then there are many future commanders described in detail who was where and what he did ....
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 30 May 2020 11: 18 New
        +2
        I carefully read the author’s article, and I had in mind not only the specific characters described in the article, but also all the professional military men of France, whose duty was (and is) to fight the enemy, and not to run from him along the entire front line.
        By the way, the person who himself served in the Legion and knows the situation from the inside understood me and appreciated me accordingly. And his opinion is decisive for me. hi
        1. saygon66
          saygon66 30 May 2020 12: 42 New
          +2
          - The situation here is generally ambiguous ... The primary duty of a serviceman is to follow orders, isn't it? And then the French military was faced with a difficult choice - Vichy or Gaullist ... whose orders to accept for execution? As far as I know, there were those who generally "retired" until the end of the war, and after its end returned to the service, as if nothing had happened ...
          - Here's an example: No one even thought about how to punish the legionnaires who fought in Syria from Vichy ... a peculiar approach ...
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 30 May 2020 12: 57 New
            +3
            ... The primary duty of a soldier is to carry out orders, is not it?

            I agree, but ... Talented and independent officers differ from the general masses in that at the right time they can “snell”.
            A simple example from the opposite "camp" - if all orders of the headquarters had been fulfilled, Guderian and Rommel would never have arranged Dunkirk for the Anglo-French. And if Guderian had the courage not to fulfill Hitler's last "stop order", the whole history of the Second World War could have turned out differently, but this is from the field of "alternative history", and I'm not a big fan of it. hi
            1. saygon66
              saygon66 30 May 2020 13: 06 New
              +2
              - So the SLA was born ...
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 30 May 2020 13: 10 New
                +2
                Well, yes, and Valery all this is popular and explained in his article.
  6. 911sx
    911sx 29 May 2020 20: 25 New
    +1
    How strange it turns out. There was resistance in France, everyone heard about the poppies, but why do you have confidence that there were no French? As in the Foreign Legion. To serve there, you need to know French (all commands and instructions go in this language). The foreign legion got its name because it was always stationed outside France (with few exceptions). At the end of the contract, the legionnaire could get a French passport, and this should not mislead anyone - everyone could start life from scratch. This was used by everyone and the French among the first. Of all these heroes, the majority of the French. That's why he and the legion accept everyone (if people fit the legion and speak French). By the way, the so-called there were many black-legged people in the legion, and these are ethnic Frenchmen who have lived for hundreds of years in Algeria. And they (the black-footed - as they were called in France) the most affected side in the Algerian war, and fought the most zealously, and opposed De Gaulle after his decision to give independence to Algeria.
  7. Catfish
    Catfish 29 May 2020 20: 30 New
    +5
    In photographs in several articles of the author, one characteristic submachine gun constantly flashes. This French sub-MAT-49 with a folding shoulder rest and folding along the barrel receiver of the store, together with the store itself, respectively. That was the design specification.
    The author of this p / p is Pierre Mantei, chief designer of these weapons from the company MAT.
    Adopted in France in 1949.
    Features:
    Weight 3,78 kg. with an empty store. Overall length 588/720 mm, barrel length 228 mm. Used cartridge 9x19 Para. Box magazine for 20/32 rounds. Rate of fire 600 / min. Sighting range 100/200 meters. The principle of operation is a free shutter. Shooting was carried out from the rear whispers, which did not affect the accuracy of the battle very well.
    A submachine gun is widely known in the countries of Indochina and North Africa.



    1. saygon66
      saygon66 30 May 2020 12: 53 New
      +2
      - Technologically - an analogue of our faculty ... Continuous stamping and spot welding!
      - This machine doesn’t need accuracy - just automatic fire ... bombarded the enemy with bullets - rate of fire: 600 rounds per minute, and distances are small ...
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 30 May 2020 12: 59 New
        +2
        Nevertheless, the design staff was much more successful. smile
        1. saygon66
          saygon66 30 May 2020 13: 09 New
          +2
          - Easier ... Much easier! There’s one folding store receiver (?) Of whichоum ...
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 30 May 2020 13: 15 New
            +2
            The terms of reference from the army was exactly that, where did the developers have to go. They were also fond of something similar later, and on the Hotchkiss "Universal" they were already off scale. Obviously because of this spread, he did not get lost.

            1. saygon66
              saygon66 30 May 2020 13: 17 New
              +2
              - Yes, it develops like three rubles in a nest egg! laughing
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 30 May 2020 13: 38 New
                +2
                There is no limit to human perversions. laughing
                1. saygon66
                  saygon66 30 May 2020 14: 34 New
                  +1
                  -The French generally have an interesting approach to designing weapons ... Get a folding butt on the MAS 36

                  or Worm gear for grenade launcher sight on MAS 49 ...
  8. sergo1914
    sergo1914 29 May 2020 22: 20 New
    +2
    Good cycle. I follow. I enjoy reading it. There was a film based on the novel Japrizo with Delon and Bronson. The book is definitely cooler. Algerian veterans rob the bank.
    1. saygon66
      saygon66 30 May 2020 12: 55 New
      +1
      - This is where two cool men rob a bank, and then it turns out that one of them was framed by a girlfriend?
  9. WayKheThuo
    WayKheThuo 29 May 2020 23: 25 New
    +3
    I really like the series of articles - I read it with pleasure.
    At the same time, the author's obvious sympathy for the Foreign Legion and France, especially during the Algerian war, is personally clear to me.
    Nevertheless, as an outside observer, I must note that there is a bias towards some praise of the Legion and it catches the eye well, very sharply - especially when describing the war in Algeria.
    I think it would be useful if the Author would devote a part, and maybe a whole article, to the enemies of the Legion. Especially during the war in Algeria, for paraphrasing, it can be noted: "Tell me who your enemy is, and I will understand who you are."
  10. Bagatur
    Bagatur 30 May 2020 07: 21 New
    +2
    Interesting!
  11. Pisarev
    Pisarev 30 May 2020 09: 52 New
    +1
    A serious mistake was made in the article, and more than one. Lieutenant Colonel Bijar has never served in the Foreign Legion. The Missing Squad movie also has nothing to do with the Foreign Legion. Legion paratroopers have and are wearing green berets, not red ones.
    And most importantly - the materials of the article are repeated, and in places - letter by letter, materials of this LJ https://catherine-catty.livejournal.com/367366.html
    And not a single link.
    1. ccsr
      ccsr 30 May 2020 11: 58 New
      +3
      Quote: Pisarev
      And most importantly - the materials of the article are repeated, and in places - letter by letter, materials of this LJ https://catherine-catty.livejournal.com/367366.html
      And not a single link.

      Everything explains here this text from LJ, which says why there are no links:
      His wife and children are mentioned by people who knew Jeanpierre closely. This is Sergeant, who served under his command and Massou, the opposite situation.
      If they buy me a book about Jeanpierre, and if there is information there, I’ll inform you.

      In a word, the main information is obtained from the print media, and not as a result of a serious study of documents relating to the Foreign Legion.
      1. saygon66
        saygon66 30 May 2020 16: 53 New
        +2
        - A serious study of documents is already a dissertation! smile The digest drives!
        “Even Brunon and Manya in their book about the Legion could not cover everything ... and the book, meanwhile, is thick ...”
        1. ccsr
          ccsr 30 May 2020 18: 29 New
          0
          Quote: saygon66
          A serious study of documents is already a dissertation! The digest drives!

          I agree completely, really folk history drives the Internet.
          Quote: saygon66
          Even Brunon and Manya in their book on the Legion could not cover everything ... and the book, meanwhile, is thick ...

          When the Patriotic War of 1812 was lost, and the Second World War was a complete shame, the French had no choice but to praise the Foreign Legion in order to impart historical "masculinity" to their armed forces. But the point is not even that, but the fact that the Foreign Legion itself in the French army is not as quoted among professionals as the authors of books and articles about it draw, especially since the number of the entire legion is so small that even one full-fledged division is not pulls.
          1. saygon66
            saygon66 30 May 2020 18: 57 New
            +1
            - But what about the Franco-Prussian war and the First World War? We will be objective!
            - And then, few units of the French army have such combat experience as the Legion ...
            - A military professional, for the most part, a man making a career in military service ... Obviously, it is much more difficult to advance through the ranks in the Legion ...
            1. ccsr
              ccsr 30 May 2020 19: 10 New
              +2
              Quote: saygon66
              and World War I? We will be objective!

              And why did our corps end up there if they were so brave? And they won as allies of Russia, due to the fact that the main forces of Germany were deployed against the troops of the Republic of Ingushetia.
              Quote: saygon66
              - And then, few units of the French army have such combat experience as the Legion ...

              They did not even trust them with heavy weapons - what other "combat experience" are you talking about, if they are not included in the operational planning of large formations, but are left as auxiliary forces?
              Quote: saygon66
              Obviously, in the Legion, it is much more difficult to advance through the ranks.

              Naturally - due to its small size. That is why the French officers and leave him, having served there for several years, if they went there voluntarily. But the main part goes there because it is connected with misconduct - just no one is spreading about it.
              1. saygon66
                saygon66 30 May 2020 19: 35 New
                +2
                - Let's not exaggerate the role of the Expeditionary Force of the Russian Imperial Army in France ... The number of 45 people, the year of the war - could hardly have a decisive superiority over the Germans ...
                - According to eyewitnesses, there were no brave men in the Great War. "There are ambitious and fools ... but there are no heroes" (C) "Walking through the agony" A. Tolstoy.
                - The lack of heavy weapons in the Legion is a consequence of the tasks assigned to it ... This is, first of all, light infantry ... Maybe the analogy is not direct, but in what years did weapons appear heavier than armored personnel carriers and BMDs in the Airborne Forces and the Marine Corps? Take the 45th regiment of the Airborne Forces - there are no "heavy" forces there either ... It is strange to motivate the absence of heavy weapons by the distrust of the command to the unit ...
                “As far as I know.” The number of vacancies for officers in the Legion is limited, and even if you want to get there, it’s not easy ...
                1. ccsr
                  ccsr 31 May 2020 12: 15 New
                  +1
                  Quote: saygon66
                  Let's not exaggerate the role of the Expeditionary Force of the Russian Imperial Army in France ... The number of 45 people, the year of the war - could hardly have shown decisive superiority over the Germans ...

                  You are aware that at Khalkin-Gol, the total number of our troops was slightly above 50 thousand - this is for you to compare.
                  Quote: saygon66
                  According to eyewitnesses, there were no brave men in the Great War. "There are ambitious and fools ... but there are no heroes" (C) "Walking through the agony" A. Tolstoy.

                  He is a great writer, but no authority for evaluating military operations.
                  Quote: saygon66
                  - The absence of heavy weapons in the Legion is a consequence of the tasks assigned to it ... This is, above all, light infantry ...

                  Complete garbage - the French command was afraid that such weapons could be turned against them or would be surrendered for a large bribe. And they did not see the point of serious preparation of "cannon fodder" for the French army - desertion from the legion was higher than in other parts of the French army, so they plugged various holes when they did not want to risk the lives of the French.
                  Quote: saygon66
                  Maybe the analogy is not direct,

                  This is not an analogy at all - they are selected in our airborne forces not only according to physical data, but also after verification by the special services.
                  Quote: saygon66
                  45th Airborne Regiment

                  This is generally a special purpose regiment, so there is no need to fantasize about its armament, because in the combat units of the airborne forces there are light armored vehicles and self-propelled guns.
                  1. saygon66
                    saygon66 31 May 2020 14: 47 New
                    0
                    - The size of the French army at that time was a little less than one and a half million ... The Russian corps is a drop in the bucket. Without detracting from the merits of the Corps, considering his contribution to the Entente victory decisive is not serious. Moreover, the war lasted another two years already without the participation of the Russian Empire.
                    - Tolstoy did not try to evaluate the military operations, but he was involved in the events of those years, and conveyed the mood of the participants in the battles ... And then to say - where is the place of heroism under hours of massive shelling and gas attacks ... A mere meat grinder.
                    - And by the way, A.N. Tolstoy from 1914 to 1916 was a war correspondent for the newspaper "Russian Vedomosti".
                    - On the question of mistrust of the command of the French army to the legion did not have to hear ... This is if only two centuries ago, at the time of its formation.
                    - When concluding a contract with the RF Armed Forces, all candidates undergo a standard check on the bases of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the FSB - paratroopers are no exception, I know for sure. The Legion also has criminal background checks. Moreover, now the Legion does not suffer heavy losses and its command can carefully select candidates ...
                    - For heavy weapons - 120 mm. mortars, infantry fighting vehicles, and wheeled tanks armed with 105 mm. gun - "heavy" enough?
                    - And yes ... It may seem strange, but the whole history of the Legion was a fire brigade of France ... And the attitude towards death on the battlefield is cultivated there somewhat different than in our Armed forces ... in my opinion, comparisons are somewhat inappropriate here.
                    1. ccsr
                      ccsr 31 May 2020 15: 37 New
                      +1
                      Quote: saygon66
                      Without detracting from the merits of the Corps, considering his contribution to the Entente victory decisive is not serious.

                      Nobody considers this decisive in the victory of the Entente, only because other Entente countries haven’t sent troops to Russia, and France hasn’t supplied us with the already paid weapons.
                      Quote: saygon66
                      Moreover, the war lasted another two years already without the participation of the Russian Empire.

                      If our corps fought in Russia, and even the Entente countries supplied us with troops and paid weapons, then the war could end sooner, and there would be no Bolsheviks in the Brest peace.
                      Quote: saygon66
                      - And by the way, A.N. Tolstoy from 1914 to 1916 was a war correspondent for the newspaper "Russian Vedomosti".

                      We cannot study the history of the Great Patriotic War based on the materials of articles by front-line correspondents - it is better to do this at least according to the memoirs of generals.
                      Quote: saygon66
                      On the issue of mistrust of the command of the French army to the legion was not heard.

                      Then why they will not be put into service at least what is available in the heavy divisions of France, for example tracked tanks Leclerc? And the rotation of officers there takes place inside the legion, and not within the framework of the armed forces of France.
                      Quote: saygon66
                      And the attitude towards death on the battlefield there is cultivated somewhat different than in our Armed Forces.

                      It’s generally customary for us to protect fighters - it’s driven into any of our officers from studies. And in IL it is mostly not even French citizens - that’s how they relate to them.
                      1. saygon66
                        saygon66 31 May 2020 17: 21 New
                        +1
                        - The troops sent ... and in what was then called Russia intervention! And before the Emperor’s abdication of the throne, was there such a need? And not only the French then left Russia - Europe would have known what it would become for it in the next 74 years ...
                        - We can’t ... But for some reason, the stories of grandfathers have more faith than volumes of general’s memoirs ...
                        - Subdivisions of "light infantry" exist in the armies of many countries of the world. And they also lack tank and self-propelled artillery units.
                        - The issue of the caring attitude of the commanders to the personnel in our armed forces is a separate and closed topic!
                2. Alexey RA
                  Alexey RA 1 June 2020 10: 42 New
                  +2
                  Quote: saygon66
                  Maybe the analogy is not direct, but in what years did the heavier armored personnel carriers and BMD appear in the Airborne Forces and the Marine Corps?

                  In the Airborne Forces - since 1982. Then, the 345th Guards.PDP, according to the experience of one and a half years of hostilities, began to be transferred to new states and transplanted to ground forces. Because for counter-guerrilla actions in Afghanistan, full-time equipment and the airborne firefighting squadron were of little use.
                  1. Legionista
                    Legionista 1 June 2020 17: 30 New
                    0
                    Complete garbage - the French command was afraid that such weapons could be turned against them or would be surrendered for a large bribe.

                    1. Legionista
                      Legionista 1 June 2020 18: 34 New
                      0
                      Complete garbage - the French command was afraid that such weapons could be turned against them or would be surrendered for a large bribe.

                      French command itself reported to you))? Or through the Main Political Administration of the SA and the Navy))?
                      Then why they will not be put into service at least what is available in the heavy divisions of France, for example tracked tanks Leclerc?

                      They don’t put it because there are no “heavy divisions” in France)))
                      There are only 2 divisions - 1 and 3. 1 division (1 division) consists of 7 tank brigades (7BB); 9 Marine Corps Brigades (9BIMa); 27 Mountain Brigade (27BIM); German-French Brigade (BFA)
                      3 division (3 division) consists of 2 tank brigade (2BB); 6 armored cavalry brigade (6 BLB); 11 Parachute Brigade (11BP). AMX-56 Leclerc tanks are in service in 4 regiments, two per division, the French themselves are not enough, not that the legionnaires are armed)))
                      In service with 1 cavalry regiment (1 REC) are heavy armored vehicles AMX-10RC, which are often called "wheeled tanks". Armament - rifled gun 105mm.
                      Speaking about foreign armed forces it is better to use non-manuals of the political informant from GlavPur and the KROKODIL magazine
      2. Pisarev
        Pisarev 30 May 2020 17: 08 New
        +1
        You do not understand me. There are generally accepted citation rules. In this case, there is a copy of the material from LJ to the article. In such cases, it is customary to put a link. Otherwise, there is a very ugly situation.
    2. saygon66
      saygon66 30 May 2020 13: 04 New
      +2
      - According to the berets - everything is not simple there ... The paratroopers also had blue berets (paratroopers of the metropolis)

      - They were worn from the 45th to the 57th year ....
      1. Pisarev
        Pisarev 30 May 2020 17: 04 New
        0
        What's so complicated?
        Red berets are colonial paratroopers.
        Blue berets - paratroopers of the metropolis.
        Light green berets with a crease to the right - fleet special forces.
        Green berets - during the war in Algeria to this day - the Foreign Legion, incl. paratroopers of the Legion.
        However, the text constantly repeats that the red berets are the Legion.
        1. saygon66
          saygon66 30 May 2020 17: 25 New
          +1
          - Really ...
          1. Legionista
            Legionista 30 May 2020 18: 38 New
            +3
            Berets of white color were worn by paratroopers of the “company of Indo-Chinese paratroopers of the Foreign Legion (CIPLE), it consisted of Vietnamese and entered the foreign parachute battalion (BEP). Berets of black color were worn in the 10th parachute battalion of foot riflemen (10 Bataillon de Parachutistes de Chasseurs à Pied (BPCP)). An interesting detail is that during the second “business trip” (2 ème séjour), the military personnel turned the emblem on a beret, to distinguish it from newcomers. All of the above applies to the war in Indochina.
  12. Dr. Frankenstucker
    Dr. Frankenstucker 30 May 2020 11: 25 New
    0
    great cycle.
    I look forward to continuing.
  13. Operator
    Operator 30 May 2020 12: 14 New
    -5
    Quote: Krasnodar
    In London, New York, Paris and Warsaw, Jewish merchants unite for a commercial crusade against Germany

    What is it about - Jews around the world called for a boycott of German goods, but only German Jews entered into an alliance with German Nazis to prepare and send tens of thousands of Jewish saboteurs from among young people of both sexes from 18 to 30 to Palestine.
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 30 May 2020 13: 43 New
      +3
      laughing
      Once again - from 1933 to 1939 60 thousand German Jews arrived in Palestine. 5 thousand children in a separate program. At least 20 thousand people over thirty (I think more). Say, out of the remaining 35 thousand, 18-30 was, at best, 20 thousand. Now the question. Why are these 20 thousand saboteurs (10 regiments lol ):
      a) The British did not do business there, of which there were not many more in Palestine
      b) A smaller number of Arab militants were not crushed in the bud in 1947
      c) were not revealed by the British - this is a whole bunch of people
      d) Why is there no mention of this even in the historical literature of the Arab countries?
      e) In contrast to the facts of cooperation between the Palestinian, Iraqi and Syrian Arabs with the Nazis during and after WWII, moreover at the level of national leaders and sympathies of the masses. It would be a good counterargument against Zionist accusations of complicity with the Nazis ... their only counterargument so far is an attempt by the leader of an organization of 300 cripples to contact Ribentrop through Italians for German help with the struggle against the British with the Arabs ...
      1. Operator
        Operator 30 May 2020 14: 10 New
        -4
        The Jewish saboteurs "lay low" immediately after arriving in Palestine and waited for a signal from the Zionist organizations to activate in the event of the outbreak of the German-British war. Another thing is that such a signal was not sounded in 1939 due to the aggravation of relations between the Nazis and Zionists.

        Jewish saboteurs were activated only in the second half of 1945 to fight the British administration and the Arab inhabitants in Palestine. After the formation of the state of Israel in 1948, saboteurs formed the backbone of the IDF and special services.
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 30 May 2020 15: 07 New
          +4
          lol
          And what did we have in the second half of the 45th?
          01.11.1945/XNUMX/XNUMX - because of the British position
          to ban the arrival of Holocaust-surviving Jews in European refugee camps, the railway was blown up and the train station in Lod was damaged, the operation was mainly carried out by Palmach fighters, who were trained ... by the British. Among the militants, Etzel and Lehi were mainly immigrants from Eastern Europe, RI, and natives of Jewish settlements.
          21.11.45/9/XNUMX - a radar on the sea and police stations across the country were blown up - in response to the British shooting XNUMX underground members trying to take illegal Jewish migrants from Europe to shore.
          The characters are the same. Where are the German Zionist saboteurs, and ??? laughing
          The backbone of the Israeli army in 1948 is natives of the country, immigrants from the Republic of Ingushetia and Eastern Europe (Hagan, Etzel, Lehi), veterans of the Polish Army, veterans of the British, American, Australian and South African armies. Several dozen people from the Red Army. Several Jewish French legionnaires.
          The Axis side was represented by Finnish Jewish volunteers - in the amount of 9 people.
          And there were also refugees from Europe - who were armed and thrown into battle.
          Question - where are 20 thousand Germans trained by saboteurs ????
          1. Operator
            Operator 30 May 2020 15: 17 New
            -3
            As for the backbone of Jewish terrorist organizations, IDF and Israeli special services from supposedly immigrants from Eastern Europe - this is a cover operation, no more. The backbone was exactly 50 thousand German Jews, previously trained by SS specialists.
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 30 May 2020 15: 56 New
              +3
              laughing
              Yes, where was there 50 thousand ?? Only 60 thousand of them arrived in the 30s - including the elderly, children and people over 30.
              German Jews noted in:
              University foundations
              Hospitals
              Philharmonic Orchestra
              Judicial system
              1948 year:
              Jacob Drori - emigrated from Odessa in 1906, the first head of the General Staff (top position in Tsakhal)
              Reuven Shiloh - Mossad's first chapter - a native of Jerusalem
              The first commander of the Israeli Air Force - Israel Amir, emigrated from the RSFSR in 1923
              The first commander of the tank forces is Yitzhak Sade, a native of Lublin (RI), a member of the WWI, then a Red Army soldier. physical education teacher in Sevastopol))
              And finally - special forces fellow Palm trees, created in 1941, were trained by the British to counter Rommel if it comes to Palestine.
              Once again I ask - where are 50 thousand trained SS Jewish saboteurs? Why weren’t they in Damascus in 1948? laughing
              1. Operator
                Operator 30 May 2020 16: 00 New
                -5
                I did not understand - for terrorizing the British and Arabs, as well as for participating in the first Arab-Israeli war, only Drori, Shiloah, Amir and Sade were enough? laughing
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 30 May 2020 16: 09 New
                  +3
                  No, of course, but given the total composition of the forces opposing Israel, including the fugitive Bosnian and German SS-tsev in 72 000 people in total, 50 thousand saboteurs with the training of Brandenburg on the third day of the war should have been in Damascus laughing
                  1. Operator
                    Operator 30 May 2020 16: 50 New
                    -6
                    Probably because German Jews - saboteurs were trained by SS experts, not the Wehrmacht.
                    1. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 30 May 2020 16: 56 New
                      +3
                      And I thought, because at the beginning of the war, the total number of Jewish troops was 30 people exactly. smile
                      Therefore, before writing nonsense, you need to know the basic things. )))
                      1. Operator
                        Operator 30 May 2020 17: 00 New
                        -6
                        Of the 50 thousand saboteurs, half were girls and women of childbearing age - guess twice their marital status in 1945.

                        Wander on laughing
                      2. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 30 May 2020 17: 09 New
                        +3
                        Ok, so out of 30577, 25 thousand were SS trained saboteurs?
                        Moreover, given about 7 thousand military girls, it turns out that from 23 thousand guys in the IDF 25 thousand were German Jews lol
                      3. Operator
                        Operator 30 May 2020 18: 40 New
                        -5
                        In addition to the IDF, as of 1948, Israel was full of non-governmental militias.
                      4. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 30 May 2020 19: 18 New
                        +2
                        Which all joined the IDF in 1948 fellow
                        By the way, I also forgot to include 3000 volunteers from abroad in this number. laughing
                      5. Operator
                        Operator 30 May 2020 20: 12 New
                        -3
                        By the end of the 1930s, the militarized Jewish organization "Haganah" consisted of 25 thousand people, after the creation of the State of Israel it was engaged in the seizure of Arab lands and the protection of Jewish military settlements according to the "wall and tower" scheme - barbed wire and an observation tower. Builders began to erect houses, industrial buildings and protective structures, and settlers began to develop the surrounding area agrarian.

                        Soldiers of the "Haganah" guarded the builders and settlers until the completion of the construction, after which the settlers themselves carried out security functions. By this method, until the early 1950s, 118 military settlements were created.

                        Something you don’t know at all is the history of your own state bully
                      6. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 30 May 2020 20: 37 New
                        +2
                        Once again - in May 1948, the armed formations of Haganah, Etzel and Lehi joined the IDF. The only one who jerked with "independence" until June 1948 was Ezel, who then totaled a couple of thousand soldiers who had already entered Tsahal. In September 1948, it was dissolved after very short battles between the troops loyal to the government and its activists.
                        The Wall and Tower - Homa at Migdal - 1936-1939, was carried out in response to an Arab uprising led by Hitler's Arab friend.
                        What other fairy tale write? laughing
                      7. Operator
                        Operator 30 May 2020 21: 13 New
                        -3
                        I used information about the parallel existence of the IDF and Hagana after the creation of the state of Israel from the Israeli Internet resource. Some of the militants of the Haganah moved to the IDF, the rest served as internal troops.

                        In addition, you burn with napalm about the alleged construction of Jewish military settlements in Palestine already in the 1930s under the British administration.

                        What do you smoke in your "promised"? laughing
                      8. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 30 May 2020 21: 19 New
                        0
                        The parallel existence of Haganah and the IDF simply did not exist. )))
                        Homa u Migdal (Wall and Tower) - google, you’ll see, but about “smoke” - compared to the psychedelic 50 thousand Jewish SS saboteurs prepared by the SS, these are childish pranks laughing
  • ccsr
    ccsr 30 May 2020 18: 52 New
    +1
    Quote: Krasnodar
    .. their only counterargument so far is an attempt by the leader of an organization of 300 cripples to contact Ribentrop through the Italians for the German help of a joint struggle with the Arabs against the British ...

    Do not be shy - some Jews, like Leopold Trepper, began to work for our intelligence, others began to work for the intelligence of Germany, so you should not pretend to be "chastity", it will not work here:
    A few months after my arrival, somewhere at the end of 1924, I took a hike across the country. At that time, half a million Arabs and about one hundred and fifty thousand Jews lived in Palestine. I visited Jerusalem and Haifa, which has already become an industrial city, passed through Emek-Israel and Galilee, where my friends on Hashomer Hatzair worked in a number of kibbutzim.
    Like me, they emigrated to Palestine, dreaming of creating a new society there, in which there would be no place for injustice. They believed that, having returned to the bosom of nature and cultivating the land, they would gain such moral values ​​as courage, dedication and devotion to the community. But others have already begun to lose faith in the possibility of laying the foundations of socialism in a country that exists as a mandatory territory of Great Britain.

    Leopold Trepper
    The Big Game
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 30 May 2020 19: 17 New
      +1
      Can I have names?
      1. ccsr
        ccsr 30 May 2020 19: 30 New
        0
        Quote: Krasnodar
        Can I have names?

        Refer to the BND archives, or to the US archives that provided asylum to Nazi criminals - there probably are data on those Jews who were recruited in Germany.
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 30 May 2020 19: 34 New
          0
          Probably for sure.
          I knew that zero specifics
          1. Legionista
            Legionista 30 May 2020 21: 49 New
            +1
            It's funny The article deals with the war in Algeria, and, as usual, the Jews are to blame for everything. wassat on behalf of all educated Russian-speaking people, I apologize to Krasnodar for the members of the forum - “pseudo-patriots”
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 30 May 2020 21: 56 New
              +1
              And you apologize for what - in my opinion, people with a bunch of “mental problems” have no nationality)).
              To speak the same language with them does not mean to be one community with them
            2. unknown
              unknown 31 May 2020 07: 48 New
              0
              In ancient languages, the words "Aryan" and "Jew" sound the same. And there is only one meaning - "man".
              The words "Jew" and "European" are synonyms, short and long versions.
              "Europe" is a country (from the word "side") of "Jews" ("Europeans").
              The only thing that the "people" have in common, the "Jews" is religion.
              No genetic unity, no single phenotype (the generally accepted "Jewish" phenotype is actually "Armenian"), no territory of origin, no language. Only religious teaching.
              Judaism. Morozov translated this word as "praising God". Everything is simpler: a Jew is ideological.
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 31 May 2020 13: 56 New
                +2
                Still simpler - Judaism comes from the name of the region - Judea. And so - yes, we are not an ethnic group, a kusa of representatives of different peoples who profess the same religion.
          2. ccsr
            ccsr 31 May 2020 12: 03 New
            +1
            Quote: Krasnodar
            I knew that zero specifics

            German intelligence was the best in pre-war history - you are simply not on the topic as the Germans used the Jews, so you are trying to convince everyone that this could not be. If our special services uncovered the ways they used Palestine to transit Jewish agents from Europe, including Leopold Trepper, to Germany, the German intelligence services acted in exactly the same way - you just do not want to admit this, even though it is so obvious.
            That is why you are speculating on the fact that not everyone is interested in delving into the archival materials of the German special services, and this is your main trump card. You simply have nothing to argue with, so you put forward "conditions", as if they prove something.
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 31 May 2020 14: 00 New
              +1
              Once again - specific names can be? The CIA archives were opened to familiarize the Israelis with the cooperation of Irgun Stern with the NKVD until 1941, in Israel there were revelations of Jews who collaborated with the Nazis, I was just interested to learn something new, and not assumptions in the style of "no better."
              1. ccsr
                ccsr 31 May 2020 14: 43 New
                +1
                Quote: Krasnodar
                I’m just curious to learn something new,

                Well, then refer to the German authorities, let them help you with this. By the way, regarding the disclosure of the CIA archives, I note that all of these documents were declassified, because it was not customary to disclose intelligence matters in all special services, especially those people who were not opened. So do not flatter yourself - you could not find out about the majority of the Jews who worked for the special services of the USSR from the CIA archives if they were not exposed during the intelligence work.
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 31 May 2020 15: 06 New
                  0
                  Once again - you don’t know the specifics.
                  Just write general phrases in the style of "such a man."
                  About flatter yourself - do not flatter yourself - I absolutely do not care who worked there for whom under the USSR, including of the Soviet military and intelligence agencies at the CIA - this is already part of the story.
                  1. ccsr
                    ccsr 31 May 2020 15: 50 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Krasnodar
                    Once again - you don’t know the specifics.

                    Naturally - not everyone like Trepper or Gurevich left memoirs, from which one can understand how one Jew drowns another, proving which of them was the best.
                    Quote: Krasnodar
                    Just write general phrases in the style of "such a man."

                    Do not pretend to be a "scientist" who has decided to find material for his scientific work on the forum - I understand perfectly well that you will be verbiage in order to show your cleverness and whitewash in this case the Jews who collaborated with the Nazis.
                    Quote: Krasnodar
                    this is already part of the story.

                    Of course, but for you this story is very selective, with a touch of fraud, when the question is about the true role of the Jews in the Second World War.
                  2. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 31 May 2020 16: 01 New
                    -1
                    Show your what, sorry? The cleverness? This is not in Russian.
                    What kind of scientist am I - education of three classes - five corridors ... laughing As for "whitewashing the Jews who collaborated with the Nazis" - you bring me facts of cooperation, I know a few, it’s interesting to know more.
                    Well, discover the true role of the Jews in WWII fellow The role of Palestinians, Syrians, Iraqis is known. )))
                  3. ccsr
                    ccsr 31 May 2020 16: 06 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Krasnodar
                    The cleverness? This is not in Russian.

                    In Russian - it is you who have learned how to understand it in all colors:
                    Intelligence as a quality of personality is the ability to have a clear, sensible mind, to have a significant amount of unrealized, unproven knowledge.

                    Quote: Krasnodar
                    Well, discover the true role of the Jews in WWII

                    I leave it to you - and without me, there are enough of those who use it to solve their mercantile issues.
                  4. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 31 May 2020 16: 27 New
                    0
                    laughing
                    There is the word mind. wants to show his mind. it is right.
                    As for solving mercantile issues - everything is correct. The creators of pseudo-patriotic parties and movements come up with a bunch of fables for the sake of attracting illiterate sludge into their ranks, making money on this, and sometimes it's pretty good wink
  • gsev
    gsev 31 May 2020 01: 34 New
    0
    Quote: ccsr
    Leopold Trepper
    The Big Game

    With the advent of the Zionist movement in Palestine, there was a rivalry between the various movements of the Zionists. There was no such antagonism between Jews as among the Bolsheviks after 1917. No one will be able to find information about the mass repressions by some Zionists of others, as was the case with the Bolsheviks in the USSR. In Israel, there is now a wide range of political forces from right-wing Zionist nationalists to liberal left-wingers calling for maximum concessions to Muslims. So far, Jews have chosen a fairly nationalistic course. But no one will guarantee that with a different course chosen, the Jews would be able to maintain their state. Like Leopold Trepper, for serving the USSR and the communist idea, he received imprisonment in the USSR and anti-Semitic hostility in Poland. In his old age, he was able to find complete freedom, peace and peace of mind in the state of Israel, becoming one of the Zionists, a man who considers it useful for Jews to build their own state.
    1. ccsr
      ccsr 31 May 2020 12: 23 New
      +2
      Quote: gsev
      Like Leopold Trepper for the service of the USSR and the communist idea received a prison term in the USSR

      He was imprisoned because, according to estimates of the effectiveness of his activities by the resident, there were great doubts, as well as regarding the embezzlement of money for personal needs.
      Quote: gsev
      and anti-Semitic hostility in Poland.

      This has nothing to do with our intelligence - he himself chose his place of residence.
      Quote: gsev
      In his old age, he was able to find complete freedom, peace and peace of mind in the state of Israel, becoming one of the Zionists, a man who considers it useful for Jews to build their own state.

      Yes, he had something to atone for his sins - it was not for nothing that on his conscience there are those whom he slandered and then they were forced to go to prison.
    2. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 31 May 2020 14: 02 New
      +1
      There was antagonism and persecution and even small fights (Etzel and supporters of Ben-Gurion), just the leaders of all groups were able to hush it up, repetitions of the history of the Second Temple are unacceptable.
  • bandabas
    bandabas 30 May 2020 18: 35 New
    -1
    The paddlers immediately raised their paws. A nation of losers.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  • saygon66
    saygon66 30 May 2020 20: 42 New
    +2
    - I hope that an article will appear about Lieutenant General Monclar (Raul Wernery), Inspector of the Foreign Legion, who also commanded the French battalion in North Korea ...
  • Operator
    Operator 30 May 2020 21: 20 New
    0
    Quote: Krasnodar
    The parallel existence of Haganah and the IDF simply was not

    This is not for me.
    We are talking about the construction of military settlements according to the "wall and tower" scheme since 1948.
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 30 May 2020 21: 57 New
      +1
      Are you talking about the military settlements of Nakhal? )))
      This is different, within the framework of the IDF
      1. Operator
        Operator 31 May 2020 00: 09 New
        0
        I am talking about 118 settlements created under the auspices of the Haganah on Arab lands from 1948 to the early 1950s. All adult residents of these settlements were fully armed with small arms, and therefore the settlements are called military.
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 31 May 2020 00: 15 New
          +1
          lol
          Hagan 1948-early 50's here to do with it? It was already history, its leadership entered the rule of the left pro-socialist (ruling) Israeli parties or began to make a career in the ranks of the IDF, where all its militants joined.
          On May 26, 1948, at a meeting of the Provisional Government, an order was approved to create the Israel Defense Forces. In particular, it contained a clause prohibiting the creation and maintenance of any armed forces in the state, except for the Israel Defense Forces and confirmed earlier orders and instructions regarding military issues, for example, mobilization. On May 31, the head of government and Minister of Defense David Ben-Gurion issued an order on the formation of the Israel Defense Forces. According to the order, everyone who was in the units of Haganah and took part in the defense of Yishuv became military personnel of the new army.
    2. A. Privalov
      A. Privalov 31 May 2020 11: 04 New
      +1
      Quote: Operator
      We are talking about the construction of military settlements according to the "wall and tower" scheme since 1948.

      According to the "Wall and Tower" system, settlements were built exclusively in mandated Palestine from 1936 to 1939. It was during the Arab uprising. A little less than 60 such settlements were created.
      In 1948, Hagan was dissolved. Based on a number of its military formations, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) were formed.
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 31 May 2020 14: 05 New
        +2
        No, it’s SS recruited Zionist saboteurs Nili who built Himmler’s headquarters in the Palestinian Authority! Do not believe ??? Ask the gentleman under the name Operator!
        1. A. Privalov
          A. Privalov 31 May 2020 14: 32 New
          0
          Sometimes he carries something that does not fit on his head. And he does it maliciously in order to somehow offend, hurt, mock. This is called trolling and provocation. negative
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 31 May 2020 14: 34 New
            +1
            You don’t need to be offended here - here it’s neighing over 50 thousand saboteurs - it's holy laughing
      2. Operator
        Operator 31 May 2020 15: 06 New
        -3
        Your compatriots from the Internet do not agree with you about the disappearance of Hagan immediately after the relevant decision of the Government of Israel of 1948.
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 31 May 2020 15: 18 New
          +1
          Of course! These are the descendants of those 50 thousand trained SS sykariy. They do not believe in the termination of the existence of Soviet partisan detachments in Polesie after the liberation of the Red Army of Belarus ..
          1. Operator
            Operator 31 May 2020 15: 29 New
            -4
            More precisely: 52 thousand Jewish saboteurs, trained by the SS - abydno, yeahhhh? bully
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 31 May 2020 15: 40 New
              +1
              Is this the cry of the soul? lol
            2. gsev
              gsev 31 May 2020 15: 55 New
              0
              Quote: Operator
              52 thousand Jewish saboteurs trained by the SS

              What can you tell about the actions of these saboteurs for the glory of the SS? Could the effectiveness of all saboteurs exceed the cost of monthly food for 52 people, trainers and their families? Have you mixed up saboteurs with informers in concentration camps and ghettos, whom you persuaded to this under the threat of repression?
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 31 May 2020 16: 19 New
                0
                The man has a theory - the SS-people trained 50 Jews in Germany as anti-British saboteurs for their further arrival in Palestine and the war against the WB on the side of the Reich.
                Given that in total in Germany in 1933 there were about 600 thousand Jews, 400 thousand of whom managed to get down before 1939, and of which only 60 thousand, including old people and children, to Palestine, the theory is worthy of remaining in the second and third year in grade 7 schoolboy laughing
              2. Operator
                Operator 31 May 2020 16: 47 New
                -3
                These were precisely the young German Jews of both sexes who had been trained in the SS camps in two specialties at once - sabotage and agrarian (as a cover). 52 thousand of them were exported to Palestine until September 1939. How much kapo has become in European ghettos and concentration camps after that I do not know.

                Activization of saboteurs was supposed to happen at the time of the invasion of German troops, but it did not grow together - El Alamein happened.
                1. gsev
                  gsev 31 May 2020 17: 30 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Operator
                  until September 1939.

                  And the German General Staff was going to fight in Palestine in 1939? Did he have the resources to be distracted by such distant goals? At that time, between Germany and Palestine was not quite friendly then Italy and Yugoslavia, an ally of France. I believed that all the diversionary resources of Germany went to the creation of structures among the German diaspora or national minorities infected with Nazi and fascist ideas. Germany failed to send a hundred saboteurs to the United States and Great Britain in all the war and pre-war years, whom counterintelligence would not have eliminated in less than six months. In my opinion, Avgustin Ivanovich Voloshin took more resources from Germany than the entire espionage and sabotage network from Egypt to Syria. And here 52 Jews, loyal to Hitler and Eichmann, were thrown into the malaria swamps of Palestine. And British intelligence did not catch anyone. And in the "Game of Foxes" it is not written about this, although it was written about Turkey there with sarcasm, how Abwehr spies in batches surrendered to the British since 000 through the mediation of their former kept woman.
                  1. Operator
                    Operator 31 May 2020 18: 03 New
                    -2
                    It is interesting, but what did Rommel do in Africa since February 1941 - was he squandering the state budget of the Third Reich or was he still breaking through to the oil fields of Iraq and Iran? laughing

                    The training of saboteurs was carried out on a mutually beneficial basis: the Jewish organizations of Germany implemented the Zionist program, and the German Nazis - the "Mein Kampf" program to purge Germany of Jews. The fifth column in Palestine is just the icing on the cake.

                    The British counteroffensive in Libya in December 1941 and the decision of the Nazis on the "final solution of the Jewish question" in January 1942, after which one could not count on the loyalty of Jewish saboteurs to the Germans, was very synchronous.
                    1. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 31 May 2020 20: 31 New
                      0
                      Now tell us how 12% of the Jewish population of Germany, who became saboteurs, from 50 thousand turned into 52 fellow
                      1. Operator
                        Operator 31 May 2020 20: 37 New
                        0
                        At first I wrote "over 50" (from memory), and then I remembered a more accurate figure.

                        12% are trifles, you better explain how, under the Nazi regime, out of 700 thousand German Jews abroad (including Palestine), 400 thousand (60%) were able to emigrate.
                      2. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 31 May 2020 22: 00 New
                        -1
                        Yes, yes, remembered lol
                        From 600 thousand - until the 39th they were released, moreover, the policy of the Nazis initially was to get rid of the Jews, having expelled them anywhere from Europe. In 39th, EMNIP, toughening went, in 41st physical destruction began
                        So, Mr. Operator, 52 thousand people come to Palestine.
                        Of these, in 1948, in addition to half of the women who were married, 26 thousand of 23 thousand of all fighters exhibited by Jews against Arabs during the war of independence remained in service. The question is - where did three thousand more go? Another question - the rest of the Jews of military age did at this time? And 3000 volunteer fighters from other countries laughing ?
                        Waiting for a new fairy tale hi
                      3. ccsr
                        ccsr 1 June 2020 11: 42 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        Another question - the rest of the Jews of military age did at this time?

                        The recruitment of Palestinian Jews who have lived there since the beginning of the twentieth century, including from those 150 that Trepper mentions in his book. So they were not sitting idle - I think so, especially considering that even Soviet intelligence was doing it there.
                      4. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 1 June 2020 13: 13 New
                        0
                        Well, of course, they did not sit idle - especially given the fact that the majority were pro-Soviet socialists)).
              3. gsev
                gsev 31 May 2020 21: 57 New
                0
                Quote: Operator
                what did Rommel do in Africa since February 1941 - was he squandering the state budget of the Third Reich or was he still breaking through to the oil fields of Iraq and Iran?

                The reason for the success of the German army in the early years of the war was the clever balance between the branches of the armed forces. One tank division was torn to the Nile, in addition, it was considered easy. For the war against the USSR, Hitler prepared about 17 tank divisions and kept a couple more in reserve. From the principle of the relationship between tanks and saboteurs, Hitler and his general staff were to prepare almost a million Jewish saboteurs for military operations against the USSR. .Moreover, German tankers appeared in Africa after an unexpected defeat of Italians who had a quantitative superiority over the British before the outbreak of hostilities. I suppose that when entering the 2nd World War, Mussolini intended to occupy Albania, Greece, North Africa from Dakar to Somalia with his troops. The Italians, before the outbreak of hostilities in Africa, had the right to count on an easy walk, counting the ratio of soldiers and equipment, and in this case, German saboteurs in 1939 could only be used for operations against Italy. It’s easier to convince the Zionist that there are half a million Jewish saboteurs in the Abwehr service on the Eastern Front than me in your numbers as they are in Palestine. In principle, Hitler pursued the Jews caused an increase in their resettlement to Palestine. But this does not say that Ben Gurion could manipulate or serve Hitler.
                1. Operator
                  Operator 31 May 2020 22: 44 New
                  -2
                  About that and the speech that the interests of the Zionists and the Nazis coincided until September 1939.

                  Before the closure of the emigration channel to Palestine, SS specialists trained as many saboteurs - "agrarians" as they had at their disposal qualified German Jews and Jewish women aged 18 to 30, who could be kept on the hook with the help of relatives who remained in Germany.
                2. gsev
                  gsev 1 June 2020 00: 27 New
                  0
                  Quote: Operator
                  the interests of Zionists and Nazis coincided until September 1939.

                  It is also illogical for me to consider Guderian and Krivoshein brothers in arms, although there are documents that they peacefully coexisted in Brest in 1939. Different points of view exist and will exist in the world. Any deeds leave heavy traces in history. But Jewish saboteurs didn’t mark any events in the glory of the SS, even if you thought it was easy to hook them. Apparently your estimates of the number of saboteurs in Palestine and the service of Leopold Trepper are subject to some methodological error. I will assume that you make such mistakes by analyzing the latest events.
                3. Operator
                  Operator 1 June 2020 00: 39 New
                  0
                  About Trepper, I did not mention.
                4. gsev
                  gsev 1 June 2020 01: 00 New
                  +1
                  [quote = Operator] I didn’t mention Pro Trepper. [/ qu
                  Sorry for my such a blunder!
              4. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 1 June 2020 00: 57 New
                -1
                Yes, this is a fairy tale.
                There is such a very inconvenient thing - the Palestinians supported by the USSR against Israel had Hitler's personal friend in the founders of their movement, then sheltered a bunch of fugitive Bosnian SS-tsevs with their families in their villages.
                Syrians and Iraqis are friendly to the USSR, supported by the Union against Israel, too, had a glorious pro-Nazi past. To justify the support of such societies in the fight against the national state of the victims of Nazism, a country that suffered enormous losses from the Nazi invasion comes up with different tales and tales.
                Although everything is very clear - in big politics there is no place for historical sentiment and other snot.
              5. gsev
                gsev 1 June 2020 01: 40 New
                +1
                Quote: Krasnodar
                Yes, this is a fairy tale.

                Israel was created as a nationalist state. In this he must have some common features with Hitler's Germany. Even the fact that Germany and Israel are a state gives them features that bring them closer and Palestine gives them features that are distant as a community that has not created a strong state. There is truth and justice if we evaluate other people from the standpoint of fairness or fairness in their actions. In order not to wake up demons, I would bring the hero of A. Gorodnitsky's song about Osvold Rufeisen. For some, he is a person open to another culture, which allowed him to leave a mark on history. For others, a Jew who not only managed to successfully fight for his life with the Nazi state, but also successfully saved several hundred of his relatives. Someone puts in the first place that he is cross. Someone claims that he preached heraldry in Christianity. Perhaps someone thinks that he greatly influenced the attitude of Jews towards Christianity. There is a historian in Russia Zimin. Unfortunately, the deceased. His work, which collected the main arguments in favor of the late origin of "The Lay of Igor's Host ...", is recognized as historical, despite the fact that his conclusion in the work is now refuted more convincingly with the involvement of new facts. She opened controversy, attracted linguists to these controversies, and contributed to the emergence of new directions of historical research. Although the conclusions he defends in this work may serve as the basis for causing a bunch of demons in modern Russian politics. Some of his works are considered scandalous for their boldness of judgment and are not included in the wide popular science turn. But still, in the Russian cultural field, discussions are becoming less scandalous and, at least on this site, the circle of discussion becomes wider and deeper.
              6. Operator
                Operator 1 June 2020 02: 40 New
                +1
                The Israeli Supreme Court, which recognized in 1960 the granting of Israeli citizenship to Oswald Rufayzen, a Jew of Jewish descent and a Catholic by religion, violated the previous practice of determining Jewish nationality on the basis of Jewish religion, as indicated in the Old Testament. Which has nothing to do with the degree of Christian orthodoxy of Rufaisen himself.

                From my point of view, a much greater "shaking of the foundations" of Judaism (after the crucifixion of the Messiah by the Pharisees) was made by the Polish-Russian Hasidim, who themselves allowed themselves to carry out missionary activities among other ethnic groups.

                At your suggestion, I read Alexander Zimin's monograph on "The Lay of Igor's Campaign" and unfortunately I can state that Zimin came to the problem from the wrong edge - he analyzes the specified literary work as a professional historian, but it is necessary to analyze it from the standpoint of a professional linguist (such as Likhachev), whom Zimin was not by definition.

                In addition, Russian and Soviet scholarly historians have a big jamb in their souls precisely in the area of ​​ignoring linguistic data: they have made a big mistake with the location of the site of the Battle of Kulikovo (the mouth of the Nepryadva River), since until the 17th century the word "mouth" meant the source of the river, and not its confluence with a lake, sea or other river. And it literally hurts the eye when reading ancient Russian texts and maps. So there is a hole in the old woman (Zimin) (wrong methodology).
              7. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 1 June 2020 02: 54 New
                -1
                The Romans crucified Christ, handed over the scribes, and were removed from the cross and buried by his supporters from the richest people of Jerusalem, who are in opposition to the Temple Authority. The Pharisees, Essenes, Sicarias, adherents of John the Baptist and others were not involved in this story.
                The basics of Judaism did not shock the crucifixion of Jesus. A greater influence on Judea at that time was made by stoning his brother, Jacob the Righteous by the Temple Authorities. The Romans, in order to avoid rebellion, were forced to remove the High Priest from office.
              8. Operator
                Operator 1 June 2020 09: 10 New
                +1
                The decision was made by the Jewish Sanhedreon, who, according to custom, the Roman procurator proposed to have mercy on one of the convicts and it turned out to be not the Messiah (suddenly). The Roman soldiers were only executors of the decision of the Sanhedreon.

                The execution of the son of God did not shake the foundations of Judaism, but the fact that 90% of the Jews were destroyed during the Jewish wars, deportations and Roman punitive actions plus the loss of the Promised Land for 1800 years, European repression and the Holocaust - well, these are trifles, not God's punishment bully
              9. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 1 June 2020 09: 52 New
                0
                1) Decided to surrender to the Romans
                2) None of the historians or contemporaries mentioned such a custom; only Caesar could pardon a person accused of separatism (Messiah)
                3) You mean, in the hands of Pontius Pilate
                4) All Jews consider themselves sons of Gd. Words of Prayer Kaddish - Our Father in Heaven ...
                5) There was a period of civil wars - beginning with the coming of Herod to power (died in the 4th century BC) and wars with Rome and not 90% laughing
                6) And how do Jews still exist, preserving their religion and even language? Greeks are another language and religion, Romans are the same ... wink
              10. Operator
                Operator 1 June 2020 10: 16 New
                +1
                The doctrine of Christ is not politics, but religion, so the state separatism of Christians is only in your head.

                Give a quote from the Torah or Tanah that all Jews are sons of God (and Abraham too?) laughing

                Losses of the local population in the civil wars in the Roman province of Palestine are seeds compared to the losses in the Judean Wars and as a result of the Roman genocide of the Jews after their uprisings in places of deportation (Egypt and Mesopotamia).

                Who only does not exist until now - here you are Hindus and Buddhists and Shintoists and shamanists (the latter generally profess the most ancient religion on Earth, and also preserved their native languages ​​in their original form). As for Hebrew: besides the Israelis, there were no other fools to create from scratch a modern dictionary (two orders of magnitude larger than the ancient one), the grammar and syntax of the language - essentially artificial.
              11. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 1 June 2020 11: 54 New
                0
                1) The inscription on the cross - INRI - Jesus the Nazarene King of Judea - i.e. The mission, the leader of the Jews, who must free them from foreign oppression and lead the world to a kingdom of justice, etc.
                And where is Christianity? laughing The independence of Judea from Rome - for this they crucified.
                2) Prayer to Avin Malkain, source - Talmud
                Our Father, Our Lord! We have no Lord except you!

                Our Father, Our Lord! Treat us [mercifully] for your name's sake!

                Our Father, Our Lord! Send us a good new year!

                Our Father, Our Lord! Cancel all harsh sentences handed down to us
                fellow
                3) We are talking about the nations that participated in biblical history))
                And as for fools - do not get excited, a warring country without oil has overtaken France, Italy and many other countries in terms of basic development indicators wink
              12. Operator
                Operator 1 June 2020 15: 59 New
                0
                The inscription on the cross corresponded to the liberation of the Sanhedreon on the Messiah, who allegedly claimed state power, the libel was accompanied by a threat to convey to Rome the prosecutor of Judea if he does not agree with the fictitious accusation of the Messiah. Otherwise, the procurator would have sent the Sanhedreon to hell with the genuine accusation of the Messiah of spreading heresy (from the point of view of the Pharisees) in the Jewish community.

                The use of the phrase "Our Father" in Jewish and Christian prayers means an appeal to God as a spiritual father. As a Jew, it is useful for you to know your forefather Abraham (and not the Lord Jehovah) - of course, unless you are a neo-pagan Kabbalist.

                The pagans sons of the gods such as Hercules, Perseus, Theseus, Ales, and others were like dirt bully
              13. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 1 June 2020 16: 56 New
                0
                I am wildly sorry, but there were no other functions of the Messiah then, the interrogation of Jesus Christ by the members of the Sanhedrin is described in the four Gospels. The title "Messiah" automatically carried a mortal threat to the wearer in case of contact with the Romans - Pilate executed two applicants for this role besides Christ.
                Yes, the Pharisees have to do with it? lol The scribes handed it over to the Romans, BOOKS - loyal to the Romans, not recognizing the Talmud (Oral Torah), who were at the head of the Temple Authority.
                Vootoot)) Therefore, we consider ourselves the spiritual sons of God, our Father. In the Gospels, Jesus more than 65 times calls himself the Son of Man. Greek connotation The Son of Gd is later, and the translation of the "Son of Man" is a profanation - he called himself simply Man. (Ben Adam in Hebrew, vernacular Adam, Son of Adam).
                You have absolutely correctly noticed the origin of the Greek connotation.
              14. Operator
                Operator 1 June 2020 17: 14 New
                0
                As for the representatives of the current in Judaism, the Sanhedreon in the 1st century AD consisted of - you know better.

                But you are clearly at odds with the Gospels: in them the Messiah is described as a spiritual, not a secular leader, and all the people of the world, and not in the tainted Roman province of Palestine. That is why the apostles of Christianity, incl. the authors of the Gospels did not bother with state power in Palestine (like radical sects in Judaism), but dispersed throughout the world, preaching "God is God, and Caesar's Caesar" (that is, absolutely not encroaching on the established political system in the countries of missionary activity).

                According to the canons of the Christian church, Jesus Christ is God the Son — the earthly form of God the Father (who does not have a form according to the Old Testament). According to the Jews, it makes no difference to us.
              15. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 1 June 2020 18: 11 New
                0
                smile
                The Gospels have their own interpretation of events and Jewish religious terms. The messiah, in the understanding of that time, was to rally the nations of the world around the idea of ​​monotheism and the Old Testament 7 commandments of Noah, liberated from any occupation of the hogged Palestine, after which peace and Malkut Shmaya should come - according to the Aramaic Kingdom of Heaven (heavenly justice) on Earth.
                The authors of the synoptic Gospels violated Christ's instruction given in the Sermon on the Mount - do not go to the Gentiles, do not give shrines to the dogs, etc.
                As for Gd - Gd - we understand differently, because The Torah teaches us that this land bequeathed to us (Abraham) by God, and Caesar with his coins can be removed to hell.
                As for whoever he believes is a matter of Faith and Interpretation of religious texts. It is pointless and impossible to argue here under the law of the Russian Federation.
              16. Operator
                Operator 1 June 2020 19: 29 New
                0
                According to the Christian Old Testament, the Messiah is chosen by God to establish peace in all senses (not only between people, but also between animals), which clearly speaks of spiritual, not secular leadership. This postulate is based on the very first testimony of the future Messiah by the prophet Isaiah. The later utilitarian interpretations of the Messiah in the Jewish Pentateuch are ignored as the head of Israel - such as why the head of the new World should be exchanged for the leader with some little things like the Jewish tribe.

                The canon of Christianity is the message of the Apostle Paul: "There is no Hellene, no Jew, no circumcision, no uncircumcision, barbarian, Scythian, slave, free, but Christ is all and in everything" - which means missionary activity among all nations and religions.
              17. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 1 June 2020 19: 50 New
                0
                Later interpretations in the Jewish Pentateuch? lol The book of the prophet Isaiah was written after the appearance of the Pentateuch of Moses, a Jewish prophet for whom, like for Christ, the Torah was By law
                As for the little things like the Jewish tribe - so the lion next to the lamb will graze peacefully after all the peoples have accepted Jewish monotheism and rallied around free Israel ve lo isa goy al goy here (and will not raise the people to the people of the sword) ve lo ilmed od milham ( and will no longer learn the art of war) fellow
                I know about the canons of Christianity.
              18. Operator
                Operator 1 June 2020 20: 07 New
                0
                I will clarify - later Jewish interpretations of the testimony of the prophet Isaiah.

                Monotheism is not Jewish, but Egyptian - it was first proclaimed by the pharaoh Akhenaten during the immigration of the Habiru tribe in Egypt.

                For Israel, this is exactly what would happen, as Isaiah predicted - the country would be in the center of a new world - if it were not for the people of Israel, who crucified their God in the form of Jesus Christ, after which the Jewish people would naturally become cursed, and the center of the world would shift to Europe.
              19. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 1 June 2020 20: 18 New
                0
                laughing
                Specify that the Torah was before the Book of Isaiah? What interpretations - we read Isaiah in the original - I quoted you from there as a keepsake. )))
                Jewish monotheism is not Sikh, for example, and not Yezidi.
                It implies the fulfillment of the 7 commandments of the children of Noah.
                Israel crucified Christ, is it Roman legionnaires? lol And for the damned people, the Jews even settled down well - preserving religion, language and living better than 150 state-forming peoples of the world wink
              20. Operator
                Operator 1 June 2020 21: 48 New
                -1
                The book of Isaiah for Christians is a source of information about the Messiah, deal with the rest yourself.

                What does Jewish, Sik or Yezidi monotheism have to do with it? It was a question of primacy among monotheistic religions, which is the religion of the pharaoh Ehtaton, whose main postulate was used by the prophet Moses, who was then in Egypt.

                It’s not yet evening - in the sense of the good order of the Israeli Jews bully
              21. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 1 June 2020 22: 01 New
                0
                We've figured out everything for a long time))
                In fact, it is not clear whose postulate the Jews used - Egyptian or Sumerian or their own
                Ekhtamon seemed to have simply had the Head over other gods, but with reference to the book of Isaiah, it was a Jewish version of Monotheism.
                Of course, not yet evening laughing But in other places, the “damned people” also got a pretty good job, don’t you? wink
              22. Operator
                Operator 2 June 2020 00: 26 New
                +1
                On the issue of the origin of monotheism - in the 12th year of the reign of Pharaoh Akhenaten, Aton was proclaimed the only deity, cults of the remaining Egyptian gods were banned, temples were closed, and the priests were dispersed.
              23. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 2 June 2020 00: 34 New
                0
                That is, the supreme became the only one.
  • gsev
    gsev 1 June 2020 13: 19 New
    +1
    Quote: Krasnodar
    Christ crucified the Romans

    Sometimes it seems that the events of 2000 years ago we know better than the events of 20 years or 2 years .. Although the canonical New Testament appeared under the supervision of jailers. For example, the circumstances of the recent murder of L. Rokhlin are not discussed and are not pulled out of the shadows.
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 1 June 2020 13: 25 New
    0
    With all due respect to the late Rokhlin, this unfortunate event does not yet have consequences, approaching in scope to the crucifixion of Christ in the history of mankind hi
  • gsev
    gsev 1 June 2020 17: 11 New
    0
    Quote: Krasnodar
    on the scale of influence on the history of mankind

    We do not know what happened 2000 years ago. Qumran scrolls give a slightly different interpretation of the event. In addition, Christianity has been developing all 2000 years. Since the time of the Crusades, Christianity has changed more than in the first 100 years after the advent of Christ. If Christ had lived another 10 years, perhaps he would have also influenced history. If Rokhlin had lived another 20 years, perhaps he would have been forgotten. On the other hand, until Russia decides on the technique of organizing the Stalinist processes, the technique of killing Rokhlin, the technique of eliminating political parties, Russia will remain a not very convenient place to live.
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 1 June 2020 17: 54 New
    0
    Qumran scrolls of Jesus do not mention at all, as far as I know. History does not know the subjunctive mood.
  • gsev
    gsev 1 June 2020 13: 00 New
    0
    Quote: Operator
    In addition, Russian and Soviet scholars historians have a big jamb precisely in the field of ignoring linguistic data: they messed around on a large scale with the location of the Battle of Kulikovo (the mouth of the Nepryadva River),

    As far as I understand, linguistic studies were carried out by Zaliznyak after the appearance of Zimin's work. Zimin did not possess modern linguistic analysis. Science moves and demand from older works the presence in them of more modern knowledge. In principle, science and language and religion are changing. Both Russians and Jews as a people change over time. For example, Heine’s literary heritage is now considered more important to most people than his attitude to Judaism or Christianity, or his attitude to German and Jewish languages. Although there are people who show great interest in the latter parties.
  • Operator
    Operator 1 June 2020 16: 22 New
    0
    I meant that "The Lay of Igor's Campaign" is a work of fiction, in connection with which, first of all, it is necessary to apply linguistic analysis to it, otherwise you can hack to the root even of Tolstoy's "War and Peace" due to the originality of the author's description of historical events ...

    In addition, Zimin, in his historical analysis of the Lay, makes two logical mistakes:
    - claims that the "Word" was created on the basis of "Zadonshchina", which is unprovable in principle, since the opposite effect has the same probability;
    - names the Archimandrite of the ROC as the author of the "Lay" of the late 18th century, which is absurd due to the repeated use of pagan images in the text, for which the archimandrite would fly out of the ROC like a cork from a bottle of champagne.

    And yet - at the end of the 18th century not a single Russian written source (with the exception of the "Lay" itself) with a pagan figurative row survived, which the Orthodox Church took care of for 800 years since the adoption of Christianity in Russia. The archimandrite simply had nowhere to learn pagan concepts of the 12th century anywhere else.
  • gsev
    gsev 1 June 2020 17: 39 New
    0
    Quote: Operator
    Archimandrite simply had nowhere to learn pagan concepts of the 12th century elsewhere.

    In the 19th century, there were many hoaxes in Russia, both historical and even ethnographic. Some things are not 100% attributable to either truth or mystification. Sometimes a hoax is exposed, a revelation is forgotten, and the hoax comes into use again. Some hoaxes can become national pride. Zimin's conclusions in this work are considered incorrect. But the lack of knowledge is always compensated by an excess of imagination if you want to do falsification or into it. to believe.
  • Operator
    Operator 1 June 2020 18: 46 New
    0
    Zimin designated the time of the alleged writing of "The Lay of Igor's Campaign" as the 18th, not the 19th century. But the blunder was in something else - the author of the semi-pagan "Lay" Zimin appointed the archimandrite of the Russian Orthodox Church from the bay of flounders.
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 1 June 2020 02: 50 New
    -2
    Israel was created as a nation state, Nazi Germany as a state based on the principles of the "Racial Struggle". You understand the difference.
  • gsev
    gsev 1 June 2020 16: 58 New
    0
    Quote: Krasnodar
    created as a nation state,

    Nationalism, in principle, is not something bad. It is assumed that the state should strive for the benefit of the whole people living in this state, and not a special group of the monarch’s family or the families of aristocrats. Sometimes it is proposed to uphold general principles: liberal, Christian, communist or socialist. But there will always be dissatisfied. Maybe this is an engineer who is paid less than the workers working on his drawings. This may be an artist of the middle hand, whose life fell on the crisis. Maybe this is a historian who dreams of returning 300 years ago when his ancestors drove cattle and slaves from a neighboring country. Sometimes methods of achieving goals lead to mass killings. Probably it is precisely the methods of the state’s struggle with its enemies that most distinguish the type of state. Science, medicine, military affairs do not greatly distinguish Russia, Germany and Israel. And the relationship between a person, society and the state in different historical times and in one state can be different. As for the racial struggle, the Germans then found mutual understanding even with representatives of races other than Europeans, Hitler had Japanese, Burmese, Thai, Hindus led by Chandra The boss. And among nationalists from the USSR to France and Norway, Hitler had loyal friends ..
    .
    Quote: Krasnodar
    "The racial struggle." You understand the difference.
    And German Jews, like the Germans, belonged to the white race.
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 1 June 2020 17: 10 New
    -1
    A few notes:
    1) A manifestation of Israeli nationalism is only the right of Jews to automatically obtain citizenship upon arrival in Israel - Russians or Ukrainians living in the country do not have the right to call their non-Jewish relative to the country in order to automatically obtain citizenship.
    2) The methods of Israel’s struggle with its enemies are impotent in my opinion - gender and third measures, go-ahead. When shooting declaring your desire to destroy the enemy on your own laity, you need to take tougher actions.
    3) Science, medicine and military affairs strongly distinguish Russia, Germany and Israel))
    4) Just one of Hitler’s first decrees was the termination of the Jews as representatives of the German nation within the framework of the Racial Struggle. Jews Semites are harmful, (theory of Wilhelm Marr), antagonists to the "Germans", Arabs are Semites useful and not parasites, but Slavs "second-class people." Like the Jews, however.
  • Major48
    Major48 2 June 2020 02: 07 New
    +1
    But will the author reach such an officer as Kiril Yushchenko, the former commander of the 13th half-brigade of the Foreign Legion. Https: //lilibay.livejournal.com/62304.html
  • Petrik66
    Petrik66 2 June 2020 21: 00 New
    0
    We must write a series of articles-Wehrmacht commanders in the operation of the defense of Berlin ..
    And there, it’s colorful to paint how the Hans commanders, with special emphasis on ss comrades, abruptly fought with the hordes of Farky Cossacks. As a young but promising platoon commander, Schulz became one day commander of the regiment, under the patronage of the Russians, and then what came of it. As if the counterattack from the Reichs chancellery was nearly enough to take Moscow, and why the paddlers saw enough of Tom Cruise with his Valktrtey, they wanted to remove the nosed de Gaulle.
  • captain
    captain 5 June 2020 17: 42 New
    +2
    Thanks to the author. I liked the article.