Military Review

Everything for gangsters. Lebman gun

108
Everything for gangsters. Lebman gun
Here it is: Lebman’s pistol for gangsters!


“After the shootout, you sent them leg warmers.” With blood.
“I cut myself when I was shaving.”
“Have you shaved your leggings?”
- I sleep in leggings!
"Only girls in jazz"


Weapon and firms. In the recently published "IN" material “From the Schnellfeuer Mauser and the PASAM submachine gun to the Norlite USK-G Standard” It tells about an attempt to turn the good old Mauser into a submachine gun, and the modern popular Glock into a carbine. The topic aroused the interest of the readership and will continue today. Continued by the story of attempts to turn some other, and very famous, samples of pistols into submachine guns.


"Parabellum" with a snail shop and a holster-butt

Interestingly, the beginning of such attempts was laid by the First World War. In 1914, in Germany, experiments were conducted on automatic firing of Parabellum pistols, which had an elongated barrel. It turned out that this is possible, but the barrel is greatly overheated, which can lead to a failure of the weapon. They stopped at this, since there was no special need for pistols firing in bursts.


“Luger artillery” - that was the name of this model, and it was a truly impressive weapon, albeit a very bulky one. The first 15 rounds of ammunition in the store could still be charged manually, but then you could not do without a special device!

In 1914, a variant of the Steyr pistol M1912 with an extended magazine for 16 rounds was developed in Austria-Hungary. Prior to this, an eight-shot magazine equipped with a clip was used on it. Based on this model, in the summer of 1916, they began to produce a modification of the M12 / P16 mod. 1916, which could shoot bursts, however, all 16 rounds of ammunition were shot in this way in just a second. The pistol was equipped with an original removable wooden holster-butt, and 9873 pieces were fired. They were armed with assault units of the Austro-Hungarian army and pilot-observers of airplanes. There was even an attempt to create ... a twin firing device of two such pistols with a rigidly fixed butt, but things did not go further than experiments with him.


But this is the standard army “Shteyr”, which participated in two world wars and demonstrated such high reliability that it was produced until 1957!


Although it was charged from a clip - like a rifle!

In Germany, in 1917, engineer Friedrich Blum designed a drum magazine TM.08 (Trommelmagazin 08) for 32 rounds, which could be used in Parabellum pistols. A pistol with a TM.08 magazine and a stock holster was designated as P.17. He also had a translator for firing bursts and as such was used as a weapon of the assault groups of the German army. In the last years of World War I, this pistol was produced in an amount of approximately 144000 copies, so both he and the snail store became quite well known.


In the photo, the loading process of the P.17 pistol with the TM.08 magazine attached


And here is the “Steyr” M1912 with an extended magazine ...


And he is with a butt!


The same "paired" sample!

But after the end of the war, many of these pistols were destroyed, and the barrels of the remaining ones were shortened and put on sale. A number of exporting firms took advantage of this, which in the 1920s began selling these pistols in the United States. Stoeger & Co. did this in New York and Pacific Arms Corporation in San Francisco. "Stoger" generally became the official trademark with the name "Luger" in the USA, and since 1929 it even began to stamp the following inscription on the receiver of its pistols: "GENUINE LUGER - REGISTERED US PATENT OFFICE". Having a long barrel, they were distinguished by good accuracy, but they could not shoot in bursts, although, in principle, nothing particularly interfered with converting them for automatic firing.


A soldier of the patchwork empire, armed with an automatic Shteyr ...

This time in America was ... hard! "Prohibition" reigned in the country. Alcohol was a deficit, but there were more weapons than ever, moreover, very different and modern. The police caught bootleggers, shot at them, and the bootleggers shot back at the police. On February 14, 1929, a massacre occurred on Valentine's Day, when during a criminal showdown between gangs of bootleggers, seven people were shot from Thompson submachine guns. It was this submachine gun with stores for 50 and even 100 rounds that became at that time the favorite weapon of many American gangsters who were ready to give any money for it. Moreover, even more than a large caliber of 11,43 (the famous "45th") did not suit some of them, and they especially ordered themselves submachine guns for .50 caliber - a weapon absolutely phenomenal in terms of lethal force. And Thompson was good for everyone, except for one - too much weight and size!

And there was a man in America who decided to make something more compact and equally powerful on the basis of the Colt 1911A1 pistol, the favorite semi-automatic pistol .45 caliber used by the US armed forces in the First World War. This man's name was Hyman Saul Lebman (referred to as Lehman in some documents), he was a saddle master and gunsmith in San Antonio, Texas. He did both to order for Texas athletes, oil workers and herders, and he lived very well. In 1933, he met a couple of charming young people who needed effective weapons that possessed increased firepower.


"Colt" M1905. In total, about 6000 were released. To increase the accuracy of shooting, a holster could be attached to this gun as a stock!

And he did not know that his clients were the notorious gangsters John Dillinger and Baby Nelson, who represented themselves as wealthy Texas oil workers, which, however, was quite enough for him.


John Dillinger (top) and George Baby Nelson (bottom)

They were already the main criminals at the top of the list of the most wanted people by the FBI. But the gunsmith didn’t even know about it. They even visited Lehman's house and dined with his family.

Well, Lebman did not think for a long time, but took the “Colt M1911A1” and turned it into something completely new, namely into a compact submachine gun. First of all, he redid the trigger for fully automatic fire. Now the good old Colt could shoot at a speed of 1000 rounds per minute. It is clear that the standard store, which housed only seven rounds, was not suitable for such firing. And he added, firstly, a compensator on the barrel, which made the barrel lower when firing, and secondly, provided it with an elongated magazine of a larger capacity, which now contained 18 rounds!


Thompson's submachine gun was good for everyone, but it was very bulky, so disguising it in a bag with golf clubs was not so easy! Shot from the movie "Only Jazz in Jazz"

Directly below the barrel was the front handle of the Thompson M1928 submachine gun with finger grooves. Now it was possible to hold a weapon with both hands at once, making it much easier to control it. Some of the ordered pistols were made to the caliber .38 Super Automatic. This cartridge, created in 1929, was similar in size to .45ACP, but it fired a 9 mm caliber bullet, so if 45 rounds were placed in the .18ACP Colt store, then this one is already 22.


.45 ACP cartridge (left) versus .32 ACP

In the end, five pistols were made, then they were sold to Nelson, whom Lebman knew under the pseudonym James Williams.

Already in 1934, during the massacre in Little Bohemia in Wisconsin, Nelson used a .38 Super 1911 S / N14130 pistol in a shootout with police and shot one and wounded two policemen! A second gun was discovered later at Dillinger. Another was found in Lebman’s store on 111 South Flores Street, in 1935, after a gang sent him to a gunsmith ... for repair.

As soon as the New Bohemia pistol was discovered, the FBI immediately tracked the serial numbers of the other pistols and turned on Lebman, who was charged with violating the National Firearms Act (NFA) of 1934 and the Texas State Arms Act. In August 1935, he was sentenced to five years in Texas, but the sentence was quashed because the district judge made a mistake in processing court documents. The second trial was already held in a jury, which he acquitted of his verdict.


And this is what Lebman ended up with!

Today Lebman and his weapons are almost forgotten. One pistol found in his store has been in the FBI Museum since 1943. The rest are in various museums and private collections. Lebman himself worked for a long time, until the 1970s, and even became an expert at Monarch Gun in California. He retired due to Alzheimer's disease, and died in 1990, having survived both Nelson and Dillinger for more than half a century.

His son, Marvin, a former lawyer, wrote in an article for the newspaper “My San Antonio” that his father did nothing but sell weapons to men in handsome suits and hats. Like this! Just a business, nothing more!

“It was an honest business from which we did not make any secrets. We were half a block south of City Hall, and half a block north of the police department. Across the street from the district sheriff’s office. “We constantly sold something to our policemen, and worked with them more often than with anyone else.”

By the way, the Lebman store after his death did not close immediately, but in 1995.


Replica Lebman Pistol

And now let's add a description of all these events, taken from a modern work of art:

“... took something not yet seen in this world. He did it for him - Les had a few of them, and he even presented one as a present to Johnny; so a loyal supporter gives the cardinal some trifle as a keepsake, a talented gunsmith from San Antonio. Fully automatic pistol, standard .45 Colt “Colt”, full-time weapon of law enforcement officials, but with minor improvements on the inside, thanks to which one pull of the trigger fired all cartridges in a three-second burst. Because the gun fired so fast, it required a lot of ammunition, so Mr. Lebman, a San Antonio gunsmith, carefully cooked several magazines together so that they contained eighteen rounds of AKP caliber .45 the size of a robin egg each. The longer the trigger was held down, the stronger the recoil increased, and the tenth to eighteenth bullets should have been wasted in the sky - however, Lebman thought this over too. He equipped the gun with a Cutts muzzle compensator and an additional vertical handle from the Thompson in the front: the compensator struggled with the muzzle being lifted up, the front handle offered a second hand carved piece of wood with recesses for the fingers to withstand the very same muzzle departure. ”

(Stephen Hunter, The Shooter novel.)

PS The author is sincerely grateful to Mr. Wildket for his help in preparing this material.
Author:
Articles from this series:
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Rk62: Finnish clone of a Kalashnikov assault rifle
MDP-9: AR-15 based submachine gun
Addition to HOWA: Minebea PM-9 submachine gun
INSAS: 420 rifle
Howa Type 89. Its “alien” rifle
Mutants, fire! Rifle CMMG Mk47 Mutant: Union of Engineers and Women
Family "arches". AR-15 licensed
Submachine gun carbine: modules, calibers and "whales"
Savage MSR Rifles
"Arches" from Savage, or the New Generation of Modern Sports Rifles
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Savage Very nice 1907 pistol of the year
This weird Mr. Savage: rifles and gun
ARX160 vs just AR-15
FFV-890C vs. AK5: Swedish-Israeli arms competition
AR-15 vs ... AR-15
CZ 805 A1 / A2. No worse than the good old "Bren"
AR-15 of the Schmeisser company
108 comments
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  1. bubalik
    bubalik 5 June 2020 19: 03 New
    21

    A bullet changes a lot in the head, even if it hits your ass. repeat
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 5 June 2020 21: 52 New
      +3
      Bravo, Sergey!
  2. Reserve buildbat
    Reserve buildbat 5 June 2020 19: 03 New
    +7
    Thanks, very interesting article.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 5 June 2020 19: 38 New
      11
      Join us!
      Thank you Vyacheslav Olegovich !!!
      1. Mister X
        Mister X 6 June 2020 11: 44 New
        +7
        hi
        There was even an attempt to create ... a twin firing device
        The author: Vyacheslav Shpakovsky

        Add and Sturmpistole M.17 based on Frommer Stop.
        Designer Rudolph von Frommer (Austria-Hungary).



        The author posted only part of the photo.
        Here is the big picture:
        In the foreground, a soldier reigns from Frommer Sturmpistole M.17
        in the back - a fighter with Steyr M1912
  3. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 5 June 2020 19: 12 New
    +7
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich. If the beginning of the article considers already known samples, then the continuation and ending is a bomb!)))
    1. kalibr
      5 June 2020 19: 23 New
      +8
      Glad you liked it!
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 5 June 2020 19: 56 New
        +8
        Vyacheslav, good evening! hi
        All my life I have been dealing with weapons, in the museum's storeroom there were several "eights" and a couple of "Artmodels", I myself fiddled with them, bringing them into a "divine form". He knew well the storage of the Museum of the Armed Forces, regularly visiting there, no one had ever heard of any "Parabellums" with an interpreter for automatic fire. But, if you say otherwise, I would like to know exactly where the information comes from. A specific link would be highly appreciated.
        1. ssergey1978
          ssergey1978 5 June 2020 20: 24 New
          +3
          I also did not see parabellums with auto-fire. Perhaps the author confuses with Mauser 712. And so the marine and artillery model is fire.
        2. kalibr
          5 June 2020 20: 48 New
          +3
          Quote: Sea Cat
          But, if you state the opposite, I would like to know exactly where the information comes from. I would greatly appreciate a specific link.

          I do not approve. Just met somewhere. And a specific link ... Can you imagine how many materials I have to recycle? Save everything for the sake of someone asking you "where" - yes, my computer will explode. And to look again, Konstantin, somehow ... I don't want to, because "the train has left." The article was written two weeks ago, the day after the article about the Mauser - submachine gun was published, so I will not give links. I didn't think of it, that's for sure. I wrote many times that I was not inventing anything ... Why? This does not add the number of characters to the text!
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 5 June 2020 20: 54 New
            +5
            I do not affirm. Just met somewhere.

            Well, I thought so. Information from the OBS series. Probably still not worth it. negative
            1. kalibr
              5 June 2020 22: 06 New
              -1
              Quote: Sea Cat
              Probably still not worth it

              How to do it? All give links to the source? This is not a HISTORY QUESTION magazine, 90% of readers do not need it at all, who needs to find what they need themselves, and an article with such an abundance of links will be simply unreadable! However, it will be necessary to write something like this ... I think it will be funny.
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 5 June 2020 22: 14 New
                +5
                How to do it?

                I’m not an author, I won’t advise how to do it, but I’ll say what not to do: do not publish inaccurate information.
                By the way, I remembered where you could have read it: The Strugatskie "Hotel" At the Dead Climber's "is a terrible gangster weapon. In the film, however, it was replaced by Browning Hi-Power, which was more appropriate in meaning.
                1. kalibr
                  6 June 2020 08: 07 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Sea Cat
                  By the way, I remembered where you could have read it: The Strugatskie "Hotel" At the Deceased Climber's "is a terrible gangster's weapon.

                  But not that, Konstantin ... I do not attach "artistic" to the sources. Rather, this is an inaccurate translation of some foreign material.
              2. Train
                Train 6 June 2020 08: 13 New
                +5
                There is a category of Koi-readers if they don’t know something, it means that it isn’t there. By definition, they require evidence and links. And you give them a link to something in response: It’s a lie and a provocation — send me the original paper — send it — Fake .All is not so, yes it is not that way. I also had a dispute over TT-Browning 1903. I had to dig and until I sent here ento:
                I heard a lot of insults ...
            2. Train
              Train 6 June 2020 07: 42 New
              +3
              Well, the author probably wouldn’t lie. TT, too, from browning and Colt 1911 was taken as the basis for both the trigger and the locking system from the 1911 model. But information about the Browning 1900 with an open trigger is practically impossible to find. But Tokarev relied on the model 1903 Browning with an open trigger!
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 6 June 2020 07: 57 New
                +2
                Dear, what has John Browning to do with his models? We are talking about the R. 17, the Artillery model of the Parabellum pistol, which has never, nowhere and by anyone, been produced with automatic fire. And here the author is lying.
                A pistol with a TM.08 magazine and a stock holster was designated as P.17. He also had a translator for firing bursts and as such was used as a weapon of the assault groups of the German army.
                Quote from the article.
                1. Train
                  Train 6 June 2020 08: 08 New
                  +1
                  Well, if he can’t find the information instantly, that doesn’t mean that the author is lying. There’s no sense. The topic is not about Lugger, but about machines in principle.
                  And with regards to TT-Browning. Yes, it’s basically the same. People don’t believe it’s a lie, he didn’t copy anything, he’s all his own. But finding information is extremely difficult by this fact
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish 6 June 2020 08: 13 New
                    +3
                    .People by the way and sometimes you can believe.

                    It is possible, but not for everyone, not in everything and not always. Look at today's comment by Vick Nick (Undecim), he figured out something during the night, although I had no doubt about it.
                    1. Train
                      Train 6 June 2020 08: 27 New
                      -1
                      Well, if you have every reason not to believe this particular author of the article ...
                      1. Catfish
                        Catfish 6 June 2020 08: 37 New
                        +2
                        I have already explained to you about disbelief specifically to the author, and where exactly in this article he gives false information. Not tired of the water in the mortar crush?
                      2. Icelord
                        Icelord 7 June 2020 08: 29 New
                        +1
                        Yes, it was a trench carbine, 32 rounds but author. There was no fire
                2. mmaxx
                  mmaxx 15 June 2020 07: 10 New
                  0
                  You brought the diagram yourself. Externally, the pistols are similar. But they are different in grip. TT is a compilation. Like almost all pistols after Browning 1903 in part, High Power, Colt 1911.
                  More Walter PP.
                  Everything else is already a variation or exotic with a turn of the trunk. Changed protection, hammer drums, all sorts of nishtyaki.
                  1. Train
                    Train 18 June 2020 07: 57 New
                    0
                    I wrote it above already.
      2. bubalik
        bubalik 5 June 2020 21: 53 New
        +8
        I deal with weapons, in the museum's storeroom there were several "eights" and a couple of "Artmodels", I myself fiddled with them, bringing them into a "divine form". He also knew well the storage of the Museum of the Armed Forces,
        ,,, driving the "quad" into the garage, I always look at the wall with love, right? laughing
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 5 June 2020 22: 19 New
          +3
          ,,, driving the "quad" into the garage, I always look at the wall with love,

          Seryozha, you didn’t guess. request Not in the garage, but in an ordinary pan. laughing
          From the series "Entertainment of the Modern Village", almost by O "Henry. smile
          1. parkello
            parkello 7 June 2020 13: 37 New
            0
            I also had a P-99 Vaputer ... a good gun. and TT was. Albanian. sold when the money was needed crying
      3. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 6 June 2020 00: 50 New
        +2
        Quote: Sea Cat
        "Parabellum" with a translator for automatic fire, no one ever heard of,

        Automatic "parabellums" I met in "fiction" ... In one book "about scouts" it was mentioned that a certain department subordinate to Himmler (something "SS" ...) ordered a small batch of premium "Lugers-automatic machines "... so to speak," special order "....
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 6 June 2020 01: 07 New
          +1
          Well, fiction, it’s fiction, because any "art" is acceptable there. laughing
          1. unknown
            unknown 6 June 2020 09: 10 New
            +1
            For example, in the book about the intelligence officer Nikolai Kuznetsov it is mentioned that he had a P-38 gun of FOURTEEN charging.
            Somewhere I met information that supposedly in the GDR R-38 in a 14-charge version they were produced not only under the cartridge 9 * 19, but also under the cartridge 7,62 * 25.
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 6 June 2020 09: 18 New
              +2
              I read this book and saw the film. When shooting a movie, the actor who played Kuznetsov was given the usual R.38, because the 14-charger never existed, just like he wasn’t produced under the cartridge 7,62x25 (?). The standard cartridge for 9x19 pistols was adopted in Germany before the First World War. Luger, in order for the army to take his gun into service, it was proposed to change the caliber from 7,65 mm to 9 mm, which he did just cutting off the Borchardt cartridge. So there was no point in releasing R.38 in the second caliber, they didn’t.
      4. Undecim
        Undecim 6 June 2020 03: 21 New
        +8
        Here the author showed, let’s say, negligence and issued a mixture of facts and fiction.
        Let's start with the fact that the "Parabellum" with a snail magazine and a holster-butt depicted in the second photo is the very P17. It was never converted to a fully automatic machine and did not have any translators.
        However, attempts to give P08 the ability to conduct automatic fire have been made repeatedly, which is confirmed by surviving patents and prototypes, for example this one.

        A patent for this option in 1926 was granted to a certain Stanislav Gurtis, a Jew from Poznan.
        However, not a single option reached serial production.
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 6 June 2020 06: 19 New
          +1
          Viktor Nikolaevich, thanks! I was sure that you would find something.
          However, not a single option reached serial production.

          What are we talking about. request smile
  4. Mister X
    Mister X 6 June 2020 12: 34 New
    +1
    hi

    It is believed that in the author’s photo, the version for .38 Super cartridges


    Photo of a supposedly real John Dillinger pistol
    Dillinger's actual .38 Super M1911A1 Machine Pistol


    Still from the movie "Johnny D."
    Baby Nelson (Stephen Graham) with a replica of PP Colt 1911
    1. Mister X
      Mister X 6 June 2020 12: 47 New
      +1
      There were other attempts to develop on the basis of Colt PP with a butt and a store of increased capacity.







      Modern model
      Hera Arms CPE (Colt Pistol Extension)
  • polpot
    polpot 5 June 2020 19: 27 New
    +4
    Wonderful article, Thank you, hope to continue.
  • Undecim
    Undecim 5 June 2020 19: 28 New
    10
    This man's name was Hyman Saul Lebman (referred to as Lehman in some documents), he was a saddle master and gunsmith in San Antonio, Texas. He did both to order for Texas athletes, oil workers and herders, and he lived very well. In 1933, he met a couple of charming young people who needed effective weapons that possessed increased firepower.
    Charming young people came to Hyman S. Lehman (still Lehman) much earlier - in 1928. These were hot Mexican guys. In Mexico at that time they were moving continuously and the market was provided. By that time, Leman had already filled his hand in remaking self-loading weapons into automatic ones.
    So when Dillinger approached him, Lehman was already "with a reputation." And their mutually beneficial cooperation began not with the "Baby machine gun", but with the Winchester Model 1907 submachine gun converted into a submachine gun.
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 5 June 2020 19: 33 New
      11
      In the photo of the Dillinger’s gang arsenal, this Winchester is clearly visible.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 5 June 2020 20: 23 New
        +4
        A jacket in which he was shot and a posthumous plaster cast of his face was randomly stuck into the "Dillinger's Gang Arsenal".
  • KVU-NSVD
    KVU-NSVD 5 June 2020 19: 28 New
    +2
    based on the American-loved Colt 1911A1 pistol, a standard .45 semi-automatic pistol used by the US military in World War I.
    It was used in the second one .. Yes, and in general Colt1911 seems to have been removed from service in the United States only in the 2000s. I had to hold it in my hands, after Makarov it was unusually large and heavy, it was a pity to shoot, but I’m unlikely to get used to such weight and probably give back and hit the target .. recourse
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 5 June 2020 20: 22 New
      +7
      Would have hit. He is surprisingly an applicationist and returns almost nothing, even though he’s the 45th.
      1. KVU-NSVD
        KVU-NSVD 5 June 2020 20: 35 New
        +1
        Quote: Sea Cat
        He is surprisingly an applicationist and returns almost nothing, even though he’s the 45th.

        Yes ? When the barrel hole in the pistol is almost like a hunting rifle of a caliber of the 24th (according to the visual sensation), then somehow I immediately want to hold it with both hands. I hope there will still be an opportunity to verify your statement about not at all forty-five-caliber returns ..
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 5 June 2020 20: 42 New
          +5
          My hand is generally small, but he, as a native, settled down. But the TT rode like a fit. If there is an opportunity, try, I’m sure - I’ll like it. smile
          1. KVU-NSVD
            KVU-NSVD 5 June 2020 20: 45 New
            +7
            Quote: Sea Cat
            But the TT rode like a fit.

            Do not touch the TT. I have feelings for him laughing
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 5 June 2020 20: 48 New
              +5
              I will not. smile But still I do not like. request
            2. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 5 June 2020 21: 23 New
              +3
              We can understand this. I also have "feelings". To the CZ-75.
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 7 June 2020 17: 12 New
                +2
                On the question of "feelings".
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 7 June 2020 18: 12 New
                  +3
                  Uncle Kostya!
                  Right now, I do not understand .... Do you have any complaints about the "Czech"?
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish 7 June 2020 18: 38 New
                    +1
                    There are no complaints about the "Czech", judging by the reviews, the pistol is excellent, and everyone who is not too lazy to copy it, although the Czechs themselves tore off the locking system from my beloved P.38.
                    And the picture is just like that, on the subject of a laugh and no back thought. drinks
          2. mister-red
            mister-red 7 June 2020 10: 05 New
            +1
            I didn’t shoot from TT, but yes from Stechkin. The difference with PM is noticeable. So that there is no strong recoil, the gun must have a sports handle. Or at least like Luger. I suspect that the ergonomics of Colt is better than that of Stechkin, but the caliber is more. I watched the video, a strong man with a build for 100kg held the gun with both hands and would not say that he was able to repay the return.
            1. KVU-NSVD
              KVU-NSVD 7 June 2020 13: 58 New
              0
              from Stechkin yes.
              Quote: mister-red
              So that there is no strong recoil, the gun must have a sports handle. Or at least like Luger.
              Lonely or bursts?
              Ergonomics are lacking in many Soviet models. For effective shooting from Stechkin, solitary ones need practice (as well as from TT), and it is better to use bursts in bursts, but you can’t do without one hand (from experience)
              1. mister-red
                mister-red 25 June 2020 21: 25 New
                0
                With automatic fire we were forbidden to shoot from Stechkin.
                1. KVU-NSVD
                  KVU-NSVD 26 June 2020 17: 58 New
                  0
                  Who do you want? In one military unit, where I was on official business, cartridges rained down on the dash like ash leaves .. Even I had zinc
                  , it’s true that for me to create a sensation, four go or five clips were enough, of which three were bursts. A single hand normally holds, but on the machine it’s straight butts ... although in a situation it can be guaranteed to cool at a conversation distance - for ten meters the first time the target fell straight without the habit and explanation of the instructor about the features. And at thirty I didn’t lie down ... Only from the second time and from the butt (although to my credit and offhand, even from the back)
                  1. mister-red
                    mister-red 26 June 2020 23: 03 New
                    +1
                    I wrote above that in the army I was a grenade launcher, I ran with RPG-16.
                    Stechkin was then a personal weapon of a grenade launcher. Therefore, they periodically allowed to shoot with a pistol, but more often for some reason from PM. He fired from Stechkin once. I saw the butt, attached a gun, but did not shoot like that.
                    PS BSF 810 OBrMP DShB.
            2. Catfish
              Catfish 7 June 2020 16: 51 New
              0
              . The difference with PM is noticeable.

              The difference is noticeable if you shoot bursts from the APS. And in his hand he lies much better than Makar. I somehow did not catch the big difference in recoil between 1911 and the GXNUMX.
              1. mister-red
                mister-red 25 June 2020 21: 28 New
                0
                They didn’t shoot in lines, he answered above. Of course, many years have passed already, but I remember that I never hit a target from Stechkin. True, we shot from him only once, but mainly from PM. From PM more or less hit the target.
                And yes, holding a gun with both hands was also forbidden.
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 26 June 2020 15: 24 New
                  0
                  And yes, holding a gun with both hands was also forbidden.

                  Why is it forbidden, have you even been explained?
                  1. mister-red
                    mister-red 26 June 2020 17: 38 New
                    0
                    I served in the Soviet army, everything was usually explained there. So then I was in the know.
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish 26 June 2020 17: 58 New
                      +1
                      I also served in the Soviet Army (66 - 69), there were APSs in the reconnaissance company, I had a chance to shoot at a shooting range, but there were no bans on "two hands" at all. Therefore, I asked you.
                      1. mister-red
                        mister-red 26 June 2020 23: 06 New
                        +1
                        They said that this is not the case. They shot like in a picture in a manual on a small business.
                      2. Catfish
                        Catfish 26 June 2020 23: 07 New
                        0
                        Clear. And yet Peter the Great warned "... not to adhere to the charter like a blind wall ..." smile
                      3. mister-red
                        mister-red 26 June 2020 23: 09 New
                        0
                        Well then in the war. I didn’t fight, so I can’t say anything. But in peacetime, everything is in accordance with the charter. Now I have a PM, I shoot from both two and one.
    2. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 5 June 2020 20: 46 New
      +5
      barrel hole in the gun
      "Hole" - in the aphedrone. In Russian technical, there is a hole. laughing
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 5 June 2020 20: 49 New
        +7
        And where does the donut hole go when they eat it? what
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 5 June 2020 21: 00 New
          +3
          Oh, Uncle Kostya! There are different versions of the appearance of the expression "reach the handle", but the "handle from the pretzel" is present in them.
      2. KVU-NSVD
        KVU-NSVD 5 June 2020 20: 53 New
        +2
        Quote: 3x3zsave
        barrel hole in the gun
        "Hole" - in the aphedrone. In Russian technical, there is a hole. laughing

        I heard this story about holes and technological holes ... laughing Both there and there is ominous darkness .. laughing
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 5 June 2020 21: 06 New
          +2
          Decent answer! Especially if you recall the review of Rzhevsky about Bolog hi
  • Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 6 June 2020 00: 57 New
    +1
    Quote: KVU-NSVD
    Anyway, Colt1911 seems to have been removed from service in the USA only in the 2000s. I had to hold it in my hands,

    I also held in my hands ... yes Only "pneumatic" ... repeat Still lying in the chulan ...
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 6 June 2020 05: 16 New
      +6
      Air pistols are basically lighter than their originals.
      Unlike long-stemmed replicas.
      Even the PM of our Izhevsk plant barely grasped at 710 grams in the equipped version.
      Parabellum, that Ulmareks, that Getcher in comparison with the original have a difference of more than 150g.
      Mausers - these firms, more than 250g.
      The revolvers are closest to the original weight, but here apparently not the desire of the manufacturer, but a design feature.
      The largest weight paradox, has the AKS-74U of the French company Koberun. Machine weighing one and a half kilograms !!!
      Regards, Vlad!
  • parkello
    parkello 7 June 2020 13: 48 New
    0
    No, the Colt 45 th is an excellent pistol. It shoots gently, accurately and always with one bullet, it’s enough to get enough, it is very effective in close combat. but there is one caveat .. there are few rounds of 7 pieces .. (you can add 2 more if you wish) and the gun is very good. we had such tanks, the sailors. the pilots. I held in my hand both the PM and P-38 ( Grandfather Trophy) and Colt. forty-fifth, well, very good compared to the rest winked
  • Oprichnik
    Oprichnik 17 June 2020 20: 30 New
    0
    Yes, the gun is heavy, but the recoil is soft, and the toss is less than that of any pocket ones like 7,65, that is, to 9mm pistols. I had to shoot from many types. Subjectively - the best Parabellum, then Stechkin, Colt and P38. Everything else is consumer goods. True, the newest models were not there.
  • mark1
    mark1 5 June 2020 19: 30 New
    +6
    Shteyer M1912 / 16, automation with unlocking the shutter by turning the barrel ... - handsome! The potential for modernization is huge, it is a pity that it is not disclosed.
  • Catfish
    Catfish 5 June 2020 19: 58 New
    +9
    Gifts are different. This one was presented to Trump.

    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 5 June 2020 20: 35 New
      +2
      Not otherwise, "Dixie" was loaded! laughing
    2. bubalik
      bubalik 5 June 2020 20: 43 New
      +5
      ,, to shoot himself? what
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 5 June 2020 20: 50 New
        +4
        I think, in which case, he will find that thread more comfortable. Or help ... wink
  • AB
    AB 5 June 2020 20: 22 New
    +3
    Great article. I did not even suspect that 1911 could be made automatic.
    carefully cooked several stores together

    Jewelry work, but one torment should drag it.
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 5 June 2020 20: 29 New
      +8
      No jewelry, deal with the uncoupler and get a machine gun. This is how the partisans reworked the SVT-40 on their knees, turning it into a machine gun. Only they did not live for a long time, the khan quickly came to the trunk.
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 6 June 2020 01: 11 New
        +4
        Quote: Sea Cat
        this is how the partisans reworked the SVT-40 on the knee, turning it into a machine gun.

        Well, partisans ... they are so ... very skilled! They also converted into civilian self-loading hunting "Browning" into "machine guns"! And what about the SVT-40? So, for some time, AVT-40 was also produced in some quantity ... officially! As a matter of fact, there were military armourers with playful little hands, who in the military workshops altered ("invented") SVT-40 in AVT .... but then they were "scolded"!
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 6 June 2020 06: 22 New
          +3
          Volodya, good morning. hi
          They also converted into civilian self-loading hunting "Browning" into "machine guns"

          For the first time I hear, but where did such information come from? Do not tell me where you can look?
          1. Nikolaevich I
            Nikolaevich I 6 June 2020 07: 14 New
            +2
            I wish you good health, Konstantin! To my deepest regret, now I cannot tell where to look; since I read about it for a long time ... I forgot the "concreteness"! request It is only to "go through" articles on the history of the partisan movement in Siberia (in extreme cases, the Far East ...) during the civil war ... what I'll try to rummage in my "archive", but there is almost zero hope for this ... (somehow there was a problem with the computer ... 60 percent of information was lost ... I still can't recover a lot!)
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 6 June 2020 07: 41 New
              +4
              ... somehow there was a problem with the computer ... 60 percent of the information was lost ...

              I duplicate the most important thing to the hard drive and store it separately. All the more likely that it will be safer.
              1. bubalik
                bubalik 6 June 2020 08: 01 New
                +5
                important duplicate to the hard drive

                ,,, from Jumble. laughing
                A boy enters a bus, throws a cash into the ticket office, tears off one ticket and puts it in his left pocket, then drops another money, tears off a second ticket and puts it in his right karma. A surprised old woman sitting next to me asks:
                “Why did you get two tickets?”
                - And this is in case I lose one ticket.
                - And if you lose the second?
                - And in this case I have a travel card!
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 6 June 2020 08: 08 New
                  +4
                  Soviet still time. Western Ukraine, a village, a grandfather sits on the mound and smokes. They ask him:
                  - Didu, but what about the fire?
                  - "I will."
                  - And yak "Prima" will not be, then you will fire?
                  - "Pamir".
                  - A yak "Pamir" will not be?
                  - Mahra I will burn.
                  - Well, what about yak and makhry?
                  - Selrada ...
                  (To smoke and pjigat one word there - to fire). smile
              2. Nikolaevich I
                Nikolaevich I 6 June 2020 08: 12 New
                +1
                Quote: Sea Cat
                I duplicate the important one to the hard drive and store it separately.

                Now I also began to copy it to an external drive ... But still, I feel sorry for the lost information ... after all, there was one that could not be re-found!
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 6 June 2020 08: 15 New
                  +2
                  This is understandable, I sympathize, I just had this.
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 5 June 2020 20: 34 New
    +3
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    However, the case of the meeting of Lehman and Dillinger is doubtful. I bow to the fact that this is a beautiful legend.
    1. kalibr
      5 June 2020 20: 42 New
      +4
      To find out with an accuracy of 100% is not possible ... But if somewhere it was written in English, then why not write it in Russian?
    2. Catfish
      Catfish 5 June 2020 20: 46 New
      +4
      Hello Anton! drinks
      Yes, Dillinger himself has long been a legend, which only read about him. fellow
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 5 June 2020 21: 04 New
        +4
        Moreover, mind you, this is the legend of the underworld, this is the legend of the FBI, and, finally, this is the epic of the American people.
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 5 June 2020 21: 08 New
          +4
          ... the epic of the American people.

          Well, yes, a sort of Robin Hood with a machine gun. laughing
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 5 June 2020 21: 13 New
            +2
            By the way, I think one of the best roles of D. Depp.
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 5 June 2020 21: 16 New
              -4
              Quote: 3x3zsave
              By the way, I think one of the best roles of D. Depp.

              Is it half-eyed?
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 5 June 2020 21: 30 New
                +6
                Vladimir! hi
                In my opinion, D. Depp is one of the most sought-after actors in Hollywood. Not because he played Jack Sparrow, but because he knows how to transform.
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 6 June 2020 06: 27 New
                  +4
                  Not because he played Jack Sparrow, but because he knows how to transform.

                  Yes, of course, but Jack Sparrow is a Masterpiece! good drinks
            2. Catfish
              Catfish 5 June 2020 21: 39 New
              +5
              Yes, I also liked the film, although the cinematic Johnny never really looks like a real one. But somewhere I read that the real one was also a very charming man.
              By the way, the Winchester Model 1907 converted "for a machine gun" was replaced with a BAR 1918 (essentially a light machine gun).
              In the photo of the shooter back.
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 5 June 2020 21: 48 New
                +4
                The film is gorgeous! Better only the series "Peaky Blinders".
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 5 June 2020 22: 07 New
                  +3
                  Unfortunately, I have not seen. request
  • bubalik
    bubalik 5 June 2020 21: 43 New
    +8

    Lt. Col. David Schilling, 94th Bomber Group.
    ,,, but similar to a Lebman product.
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 5 June 2020 22: 09 New
      +5
      Looks like, but the assault grip is not from the Thompson.
      1. bubalik
        bubalik 5 June 2020 22: 18 New
        +7
        ,,, now looked, well, prices recourse
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 5 June 2020 22: 22 New
          +5
          Do you need it? Kalash is as much better as cheaper than the Thompson Thresher.
          1. bubalik
            bubalik 5 June 2020 22: 29 New
            +4
            ,,, yes I just take a look. tongue
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 5 June 2020 22: 45 New
              +5
              I also love rarities, but with money, you know ... request
            2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 6 June 2020 06: 05 New
              +5
              Quote: bubalik
              ,,, yes I just take a look. tongue

              Damn, I went right salivating! I want this in the garage !!!
              True, if the wife sees, she will kill! If he finds out the price he will kill twice !!! good
        2. Revolver
          Revolver 6 June 2020 02: 04 New
          +7
          Quote: bubalik
          ,,, now looked, well, prices recourse

          Everything is much more complicated. In 1986, a ban on automatic weapons for individuals was dragged through Congress. They left an exception for already officially registered machines. They can be resold along with registration, and registration is so expensive. The same thing, but remade for single shooting or remaking is much cheaper. If you are hunting, you can remake it yourself into a machine, and everything you need can be ordered, inexpensively. But if they mistake this, then a criminal record is most likely a term, and for a long time, often for life, depending on the state, a ban on owning a firearm as previously convicted. In the last century, moving to a place where your criminal record might not have been known could help, but now there are computers and databases, and the federal law banning the sale of firearms without a biography check.
  • serge siberian
    serge siberian 6 June 2020 21: 20 New
    0
    The article is interesting and liked. Is there anything else interesting ?.
    1. kalibr
      7 June 2020 21: 21 New
      0
      Must see. It’s interesting and the like is always there ...