Military Review

On the dagger and the origin of this word: 10 years ago this weapon was removed from the list for officers and midshipmen

103

One of the characters fleetIn addition to the Andreevsky flag (along with the banner of the Soviet Navy), a marine vest, and a sailor cap, one can rightly be considered a dagger. Of course, it’s well known that this is personal weapon naval officer. But with the understanding of the origin of this word there are difficulties even among sailors. And given the fact that this year marks 80 years since the dagger began to be used as a uniform accessory by the military personnel of the command staff of the Navy of the Soviet Union, it is worth paying some attention to this weapon and the word itself.


So, in 1940, the command staff of the USSR Navy received the right to wear a dagger, which is the famous dagger.

Where did this word come from?

There are several versions on this subject, but they all have one thing in common. Scientists believe that this is a term that came into the Russian language - a derivative of the word "knife" in different languages ​​of the world. Some consider Persia as the "source", others India, where the words "curt" and "krtis" meant precisely "knife".

These words reached a number of European languages. For example, in northwestern Italy, the word “cortello” refers to a knife with a relatively short blade. This is a peculiar dialectic “diminutive” from the usual word “knife”. In this regard, the term "dagger" is the Russification of the diminutive designation of "court", "kert" or "krta".

But is the dagger really small to fit the “knife” option? The length of the classic officer’s dagger is 40 cm. The total length of the admiral’s dagger is 44 cm, of which 28 cm is the blade. There is also an option with a 49-cm dagger.

It is clear that today the dagger has actually lost its original purpose. And its purpose is to use edged weapons during the boarding of the ship. It was originally about a personal dagger of any sailor on a warship, regardless of his rank and position. Such daggers were used by European sailors, as well as representatives of Turkish squadrons. Exceptionally marine attributes such weapons began to get closer to the XVII century.

Not so long ago, the issue of the right to store and wear a dagger for retiring naval officers began to be actively discussed in our country. This question arose in connection with a series of scandals related to the fact that officers were ordered to take daggers. In March last year, the Federal Security Service even had to issue a special order. The document establishes the procedure for obtaining "for eternal storage" dagger by certain categories of military personnel of the Navy. In particular, naval officers and midshipmen who have left military service should retain the right to wear a naval uniform in the absence of a contraindication to the possession of knives.

In 2020, five years have passed since the president initiated the adoption of the law on the return of the dagger “to military service”. The fact is that in 2010 (exactly 10 years ago) the dagger was generally removed from the list of personal weapons of midshipmen and naval officers, guided by problems in the legislation governing the right to bear arms. This, for obvious reasons, caused discontent in the Navy. Now the situation has been resolved in favor of the dirk and in favor of those who have the right to wear it.
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  1. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 22 May 2020 13: 52 New
    +6
    And where do we make dirks? In Zlatoust?
    1. Sling cutter
      Sling cutter 22 May 2020 13: 53 New
      +8
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      And where do we make dirks? In Zlatoust?

      Exactly there!
    2. svp67
      svp67 22 May 2020 14: 22 New
      13
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      And where do we make dirks? In Zlatoust?

      Well, yes ... In any case, they are branded with this plant.
      In general, tradition is a very important thing, especially in the army
      1. poquello
        poquello 22 May 2020 15: 27 New
        +1
        Quote: svp67
        In general, tradition is a very important thing, especially in the army

        at 40m he received the right to wear a dagger, and in the year 27 they were seen wearing the enemy canceled
        1. svp67
          svp67 22 May 2020 16: 10 New
          +9
          Quote: poquello
          at 40m he received the right to wear a dagger, and in the year 27 they were seen wearing the enemy canceled

          In the 17th epaulettes were canceled, in the 43rd they were returned. There is time to scatter stones, but there is time to collect them ...
      2. Moore
        Moore 23 May 2020 08: 10 New
        +4
        Zlatoust Instrument Plant.
        In the photo - the aviation version. Until 1956, the details of the handle, guard, metal parts of the scabbard are gilded.
  2. steelmaker
    steelmaker 22 May 2020 14: 10 New
    +9
    In our country, in Russia, this sometimes happens - common sense wins!
  3. novel66
    novel66 22 May 2020 14: 18 New
    +9
    a dagger is not a dagger, but rather a stylet
    1. Pug
      Pug 22 May 2020 14: 25 New
      0
      Quote: novel xnumx
      a dagger is not a dagger, but rather a stylet

      And a symbol! This is not just a cold weapon, but membership in the highest composition of the Russian Navy! hi
      1. novel66
        novel66 22 May 2020 14: 31 New
        25
        why to the higher? to the officer ..
        1. Crowe
          Crowe 22 May 2020 15: 26 New
          13
          Then to the officers and midshipmen, to be exact to the end.
          1. novel66
            novel66 22 May 2020 15: 27 New
            +6
            yes, more precisely hi
        2. Pug
          Pug 22 May 2020 15: 57 New
          +4
          Quote: novel xnumx
          why to the higher? to the officer ..

          Well, I agree .. Rights! I just decided to protect the dagger so that it would not be called a knife, etc. some here .. hi
        3. Mouse
          Mouse 23 May 2020 11: 22 New
          +4
          Ephesus and scabbard, blade tip.
          But this is a banner, this is a symbol of faith,
          Courage, glory, honor of a sailor.

          History remembers. Not once
          When clippers converged in battle,
          That officers in a boarding battle,
          Only with a dagger rushed at the enemy.

          Sometimes a riot happened on the ship -
          Maritime service is not easy -
          And the officer used a dagger,
          To protect yourself from the rebel.

          In the last hour, having passed both the storm and the flame,
          Before quietly moving away into eternity,
          Sailor his dagger, like a holy memory,
          Always sought to bring to his lips.

          In the ranks of entering the fleet officers,
          Cadet, pressed his dagger to his lips,
          Serve the Fatherland honestly, without reproach
          He takes an oath to the motherland, to all of us.

          And, true, there isn’t that oath worse
          Than the one that accepts blue steel,
          She swears all oaths more important and stronger
          Strong as the strongest pedestal.

          How the flag crowns the ship’s navy
          And will not fall in the face of the enemy
          So the officer carries a dagger in life,
          The sacred symbol of honor of a sailor.

          Valery Shtormovoi
          hi
          1. novel66
            novel66 23 May 2020 11: 26 New
            +3
            Vasya hi , yes, edged weapons - a special story, ..
            1. Mouse
              Mouse 23 May 2020 11: 31 New
              +3
              It’s just ... not just cold steel, but a special story ... yes
              1. novel66
                novel66 23 May 2020 11: 35 New
                +2
                precisely because it’s cold, and therefore history is ancient ...
            2. 16329
              16329 24 May 2020 13: 12 New
              0
              Dirk is from the Dutch language, a short sword,
              By the way, sale in Dutch Korting, reduced, reduced price
              1. novel66
                novel66 24 May 2020 13: 16 New
                0
                and I have kitchen appliances of the company "curting" is it shortened or reduced?
                1. 16329
                  16329 24 May 2020 14: 48 New
                  0
                  in the Dutch version “o” without umlaut, where does the name of the brand of your household appliances come from
                  Well, about the fact that a dagger of Dutch origin was always written, naval boarding weapons, a short sword, by the way, in Treasure Island, everyone fights with daggers
      2. poquello
        poquello 22 May 2020 15: 30 New
        +3
        Quote: Pug
        Quote: novel xnumx
        a dagger is not a dagger, but rather a stylet

        And a symbol! This is not just a cold weapon, but membership in the highest composition of the Russian Navy! hi

        to the higher composition of the tank, engineering, technical troops, aviation generals, communications and commandant service troops and diplomats, but later
    2. Catfish
      Catfish 22 May 2020 16: 01 New
      15
      Novel, hi You are somewhat wrong. The stiletto had nothing to do with "naval affairs" at all, but served to finish off a soldier (knight) who was thrown to the ground. Elementary stuck into the crack and took into the eye, and then to the brain. And the dagger is nevertheless closer to the dagger.
      Stylet:

      Dirk:

      Here, the difference is clearly noticeable in the configuration of the blade.
      1. novel66
        novel66 22 May 2020 16: 21 New
        +4
        slightly lower comparison
      2. garri-lin
        garri-lin 22 May 2020 19: 54 New
        +2
        The stylet blade could be faceted. 3 or 4 sides. So flat. It could be like in the bottom photo, but it could be triangular. A lot of options.
    3. tatarin1972
      tatarin1972 22 May 2020 16: 14 New
      +6
      Dagger, a kind of dagger with a straight short faceted blade, stabbing short-edged cold steel with a handle. And the types of daggers were different, were in service with not only the fleet.
      1. novel66
        novel66 22 May 2020 16: 20 New
        +7
        dagger - piercing and cutting. great example
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. tatarin1972
          tatarin1972 22 May 2020 18: 57 New
          0
          I think that you are a smart person, before you enter into an unnecessary argument, you have gone through the network and you know that you are wrong. So what is this for?
          1. novel66
            novel66 22 May 2020 20: 27 New
            +2
            wrong in what? I understand knives and answer for my words
          2. Andrei Nikolaevich
            Andrei Nikolaevich 22 May 2020 21: 06 New
            0
            The familiar emblem is the polar bear.) Been in those parts.
        3. garri-lin
          garri-lin 22 May 2020 19: 51 New
          +2
          The fact that the photo is only prickly. Moreover, not to imprison him. The metal is like that.
          1. novel66
            novel66 22 May 2020 20: 28 New
            +3
            with such an angle of information perfectly cuts, do not argue in vain
            1. garri-lin
              garri-lin 22 May 2020 20: 42 New
              +2
              Did you hold the object captured in the photo in your hands? Not a replica, namely the original? I held. There are no cutting edges.
              1. novel66
                novel66 22 May 2020 20: 52 New
                +2
                sharpening issue
                1. garri-lin
                  garri-lin 23 May 2020 00: 00 New
                  0
                  There steel is not whetted. And the most important question. Why sharpen what should not be honed by the creator’s idea.
                  1. novel66
                    novel66 23 May 2020 09: 37 New
                    +1
                    no turning steel. believe the pros in this matter
                    1. garri-lin
                      garri-lin 23 May 2020 10: 58 New
                      +1
                      Well, I do not consider myself a pro. Although a lot of things were sharpened to the sharpness of the shaving blade. On not sharpened steels I know a few. The same bayonet is not possible to sharpen the knife of the release of the second half of the 80s. From the word at all. Reza will not.
                      1. novel66
                        novel66 23 May 2020 11: 04 New
                        +1
                        the question of note and the thickness of the cutting edge, I have in operation a knife of their own p18 cooking - perfectly sharpened. and sharp as always. there are fewer steels than p18, and knives and bayonet-knives are not made of them, so that the bayonet-knife has a cut, it is necessary to grind to a thinner cutting edge, a tedious task, and not always justifying the work spent
                      2. garri-lin
                        garri-lin 23 May 2020 19: 50 New
                        +2
                        I would like to see it. Some steels begin to "float" or crumble and therefore the cutting edge cannot be pulled out. She stupidly crumbles. At the same time, the steel is very hard. Greatly holds loads.
                      3. novel66
                        novel66 24 May 2020 11: 11 New
                        +2
                        either the steel is hard and crumbles - and p18 is an example, but bayonet-knives do not make of it either elastic, but soft, one of my best knives is made of a usual spring, competent MOT and all things. Knockability of a knife (dagger) depends ONLY on the profile !!
                      4. garri-lin
                        garri-lin 24 May 2020 12: 13 New
                        +2
                        You can argue in words forever. There are a lot of arguments. Both pros and cons. However, personally my experience contradicts yours. Faced with knives that seem to be sharp and there is no cut. Or you will bring it out to razor sharpness, a couple of times you will also conduct a khan on fresh meat. It doesn’t cut anything. And according to Rockwell 62 63. Steel, steel, strife.
                      5. novel66
                        novel66 24 May 2020 12: 22 New
                        +2
                        about! this is a famous case! "soap cut" is called, and knives from the best high-alloy steels suffer from it! there the whole trick is in the burnout of alloying elements during forging, such steels are only mechanical processing. but the usual spring or SHH does not suffer from this
                      6. garri-lin
                        garri-lin 24 May 2020 21: 43 New
                        +1
                        Well, tobish, you acknowledge that if you began to make BIG weapons from very firmly, then sharpening the edge may not work. Reza will not. This is me to the fact that the stylet in your photo is made of very durable but brittle steel. Sharpening is not amenable to. I know from the experience of people who tried.
                      7. novel66
                        novel66 24 May 2020 23: 17 New
                        0
                        uh !! in my photo is an essay dagger. and I held it in my hands sharpened to the ringing, not my lyalka, but the owner watched the instrument
                      8. garri-lin
                        garri-lin 24 May 2020 23: 25 New
                        0
                        Originally this is not a dagger but a stylet. Blade lens, without cutting edge. Just stab. How sharp was he imprisoned? How was sharpening maintained during use? Were there a micro-approach?
                      9. novel66
                        novel66 24 May 2020 23: 30 New
                        0
                        now, I never agree! initially it is a baselard. either a short sword or a long dagger! it is easy to plan a match on a toothpick, which means that you can catch your throat on occasion, I don’t know the term “reason”, but the reduction was zero and was perfectly preserved
                      10. garri-lin
                        garri-lin 24 May 2020 23: 50 New
                        0
                        The ss daggers were diamond-shaped in the cross section of the blade. In the photo that you applied such a blade? Or a lens? I see a lens there.
                      11. novel66
                        novel66 25 May 2020 00: 19 New
                        0
                        even a lens!

                        here is a knife, turned into a lens - believe me, it is very sharp
  • garri-lin
    garri-lin 22 May 2020 19: 56 New
    +4
    Namely, the naval daggers in the majority did not have a cutting edge. And for a dagger, this is a must.
  • Tank hard
    Tank hard 22 May 2020 18: 30 New
    +1
    Quote: novel xnumx
    a dagger is not a dagger, but rather a stylet

    Kotrik is more a dagger than a stylet.
    here: [media =https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%B5%D1%82]
    and here: [media =https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B6%D0%B0%D0%BB]
    wink
    1. novel66
      novel66 22 May 2020 20: 29 New
      +2
      a dagger that is more likely to stab and is a stylet, learn the materiel
      1. Tank hard
        Tank hard 22 May 2020 21: 22 New
        +1
        Quote: novel xnumx
        a dagger that is more likely to stab and is a stylet, learn the materiel

        As if in Wikipedia, the link to which I threw, even for the children wrote that the stylet does not have cutting edges, it only stabs. A dagger, however, is even badly cutting, but having two sharpened sides (sides, other ...). If the blade is double-edged, that is, the sides of the blade, face, etc., are sharpened, then this is a dagger! If it does not have sharpened sides, edges, edges, etc. it doesn’t have, but only has an ostium intended for injection, this is a stylet. wink
        Quote: novel xnumx
        learn materiel

        In our field, every gopher is an agronomist. laughing
        1. novel66
          novel66 23 May 2020 09: 46 New
          +1
          yes, yes! hi
          1. novel66
            novel66 23 May 2020 09: 47 New
            0
            the stylet can have edges, and you can even sharpen them, only it makes no sense, they will not cut, because of the large angle of information
            1. Tank hard
              Tank hard 23 May 2020 09: 53 New
              +1
              Quote: novel xnumx
              the stylet can have edges, and you can even sharpen them, only it makes no sense, they will not cut, because of the large angle of information

              In short, so. If the sides are sharpened at the dagger, it is a dagger. And if not sharpened - a stiletto. This means that the dagger can be either a stylet or a dagger. Depends on "construction", country, time, desire. wink hi
              1. novel66
                novel66 23 May 2020 09: 57 New
                +1
                Well, let’s come together on this !! drinks
                1. Tank hard
                  Tank hard 23 May 2020 11: 46 New
                  0
                  Quote: novel xnumx
                  Well, let’s come together on this !!

                  Come on, and then you can discuss here before greening. For the knives of the so-called Frank Beltram, many call a stiletto, but their blade, although narrow, of a dagger type, but only one side is sharpened. This means that this is not a stiletto or a dagger, but a knife! The same "cold steely" "tie light" is also a knife, and it does not cut very badly for me, although it will lose to the "chef" from the same "cold steal" in my kitchen, because it is intended for another, so shta ..:
                  Quote: novel xnumx
                  Well, let’s come together on this !!

                  Beltram, for example:
                  1. novel66
                    novel66 23 May 2020 13: 13 New
                    -1
                    all right, pure stiletto
                    1. Tank hard
                      Tank hard 23 May 2020 13: 57 New
                      0
                      Quote: novel xnumx
                      all right, pure stiletto

                      No - a knife. (If you're talking about Beltram) tongue
              2. novel66
                novel66 23 May 2020 09: 59 New
                +2
                ... Depends on "construction", country, time, desire.
                application !! first of all! you can stab. but to kill .. it’s better to poison, so as not to suffer
                1. Masha
                  Masha 23 May 2020 11: 55 New
                  +2
                  Poison is somehow not masculine .... rather a female theme .... lol love
                  1. Terenin
                    Terenin 23 May 2020 12: 37 New
                    +3
                    Quote: Masha
                    Poison is somehow not masculine .... rather a female theme .... lol love

                    winked the second wave of the pandemic (pah-pah-pah) can level everyone
                    1. novel66
                      novel66 23 May 2020 13: 11 New
                      0
                      yes Gene. yes ... equalizes ..
                  2. novel66
                    novel66 23 May 2020 13: 12 New
                    +1
                    oh well .. about Mazarin did not hear?
                    1. Masha
                      Masha 23 May 2020 14: 01 New
                      +2
                      Come on .... usurped ... wallow! tongue
  • Vitaly Tsymbal
    Vitaly Tsymbal 22 May 2020 14: 20 New
    +6
    For my anniversary they gave me an exact copy of the seamen's dagger of the 17-18 centuries (real without any decorations and engravings), and they explained that the dagger is a piercing weapon that was used mainly by sailors when seizing weapon (cannon) decks, which were very low and cramped and on which it was impossible to "wave" a saber or stab with a long thin sword. Those. The dagger is a stabbing "shock" (on my copy the handle ends with a sharp "bump") intended for close combat in cramped conditions, so the blade was not sharpened, and the size of my copy is more gift and ceremonial.
    1. Pug
      Pug 22 May 2020 14: 27 New
      +3
      Quote: Vitaly Tsymbal
      and explained that the dagger is a stabbing weapon that was used mainly by sailors when seizing weapon (cannon) decks, which were very low and cramped and on which it was impossible to "swing" a saber or stab with a long thin sword.

      Thanks did not know, but expected! Now it is a symbol of naval officers ..
      1. AUL
        AUL 22 May 2020 17: 57 New
        0
        Therefore, I always thought that the dirk was from the German Kurz (short).
  • Shooter22
    Shooter22 22 May 2020 14: 25 New
    12
    Good day everyone! Received a dagger in one country (USSR), and went with it to the reserve in another (Russia). Only the dagger has not changed, the inscription "Bulat" on the blade still shines. good
    1. Pug
      Pug 22 May 2020 15: 59 New
      +1
      Quote: Shooter22
      Good day everyone! Received a dagger in one country (USSR), and went with it to the reserve in another (Russia). Only the dagger has not changed, the inscription "Bulat" on the blade still shines. good

      From the heart! Keep it ... hi
      1. Shooter22
        Shooter22 22 May 2020 16: 07 New
        +6
        From the heart! Keep it ... hi[/ Quote]

        Thank! I keep it, he went through the whole service with me. And this relic is not only mine, but family. hi
        1. Pug
          Pug 22 May 2020 16: 18 New
          +3
          Quote: Shooter22
          this relic is not only mine, but family

          This is what I wanted to hear! hi So it should be .. Thank you! hi Alive Russia!
  • Undecim
    Undecim 22 May 2020 14: 42 New
    15
    These words reached a number of European languages. For example, in northwestern Italy, the word “cortello” refers to a knife with a relatively short blade. This is a peculiar dialectic “diminutive” about the common word “knife”. In this regard, the term "dagger" is the Russification of the diminutive designation of "court", "kert" or "krta".
    But is the dagger really small to fit the “knife” option?

    Who is this nameless site etymologist who called the noble weapon a "knife"? Firstly, there is no word "cortello" in the Italian language. Short blade knife - coltello corto.
    Sortello is from the Mediterranean lingua franca, a pidginized language that developed in the Middle Ages in the Mediterranean and served mainly for the communication of Arab and Turkish merchants with Europeans, whom they called Franks.
    However, in all European languages, the dirk is called dirk, from the Old German dolch, tolch, which, in turn, came from the West Slavic tillich.
    But the Eastern Slavs, since the XV century, there is a cord - originally a long knife, and since the XVI century the so-called short saber. By the way, the Poles dirk is called cordik.
    So a dagger is not a knife, but rather a "saber".
    1. Bacha
      Bacha 22 May 2020 16: 34 New
      +5
      Always wanted to ask, what does the Italian language have to do with it? It’s so much easier for me. Spain was once the mistress of the seas, with a rich maritime history. Corto in Spanish is short. That saber, that the sword, if short, were Corto. In addition, lovers were boarding. The question is, why should the boarding gun be called in Italian? Why not in English? The main rival of Spain, then similar knives were called stylet.
  • faterdom
    faterdom 22 May 2020 15: 12 New
    +7
    By the way, somewhere at the turn of the 70s, the dagger was prescribed for the full dress! USSR officers. Both marine and land. Along with a gold cord for an officer cap - it was either a jamb of rear officers, or those who approved this form, but for a state with a 5 millionth army it flew a pretty penny.
    The daggers for the ground were quickly canceled, but the cord on the officer's everyday cap remained for good. The daggers remained with those who at that time received the parade, I do not know if he had any "period of wearing" like a dress belt or uniform ...
    1. ccsr
      ccsr 22 May 2020 18: 23 New
      +3
      Quote: faterdom
      By the way, somewhere at the turn of the 70s, the dagger was prescribed for the full dress! USSR officers. Both marine and land.

      There was no such thing. Daggers from non-sailors were worn by naval aviation officers, and long before the seventies.
      Quote: faterdom
      Along with a gold cord for an officer cap - it was either a jamb of rear officers,

      This really happened in the seventies, when a woven cord appeared on the officers' everyday cap. But then the edging was placed on the buttonholes of the everyday tunic.
      Quote: faterdom
      Dirks remained with those who received the parade at that time,

      At our graduation, several officers wore a full dress uniform, but I don’t remember being given daggers - they received them at the duty station, as far as I remember.
      1. Gato
        Gato 22 May 2020 18: 59 New
        +2
        By the way, somewhere at the turn of the 70s, the dagger was prescribed for the full dress! USSR officers. Both marine and land.

        There was no such thing. Daggers from non-sailors were worn by naval aviation officers, and long before the seventies.

        Engineering troops:

        Dirks, as an element of the parade uniform were canceled in 1958 (Order of the USSR Ministry of Defense No. 70 of 29.03.1958/XNUMX/XNUMX). Whether they were introduced anew not for sailors - I do not know.
        My grandfather served in naval aviation until the Khrushchev pogrom, he didn’t have a dagger, but his holster dangled at the level of his knees, which was the subject of special show-offs.
        1. ccsr
          ccsr 23 May 2020 10: 46 New
          +3
          Quote: Gato
          Daggers, as an element of the parade uniform, were canceled in 1958 (Order of the USSR Ministry of Defense No. 70 of 29.03.1958/XNUMX/XNUMX).

          Here I am about the fact that officers of the Ground Forces were not supposed to have daggers in my time, i.e. in the seventies, as discussed by another author.

          Quote: Gato
          My grandfather served in naval aviation until the Khrushchev pogrom, he didn’t have a dagger,

          My father also served in naval aviation and he had a dirk as an element of the full dress uniform until his dismissal in 1961.
          Quote: Gato
          but the holster dangled at the level of the knees, which was the subject of special show-offs.

          They did not have a sword belt, so the holster was mounted on a belt under the sea tunic with a standing collar. I have preserved this.
        2. Subtext
          Subtext 23 May 2020 11: 43 New
          +1
          So many Daggers were made to the Soviet Army that they are still being issued to sailors. There is a magazine on the ship in the warhead-2 (for artillery rocket launchers), where dirks are kept. In the magazine of the 2nd section: daggers of the Navy and daggers of the SA.
  • Old26
    Old26 22 May 2020 15: 33 New
    +9
    Quote: faterdom
    By the way, somewhere at the turn of the 70s, the dagger was prescribed for the full dress! USSR officers. Both marine and land. Along with a gold cord for an officer cap - it was either a jamb of rear officers, or those who approved this form, but for a state with a 5 millionth army it flew a pretty penny.
    The daggers for the ground were quickly canceled, but the cord on the officer's everyday cap remained for good. The daggers remained with those who at that time received the parade, I do not know if he had any "period of wearing" like a dress belt or uniform ...

    This is the second time. The first time daggers introduced in the 50s. But the second time when - I do not remember. But hardly in the 70s. Something most of all is recalled that at the parades in the 90s, early 2000s. I remember that the pilots ...

    Quote: Vitaly Tsymbal
    For my anniversary they gave me an exact copy of the seamen's dagger of the 17-18 centuries (real without any decorations and engravings), and they explained that the dagger is a piercing weapon that was used mainly by sailors when seizing weapon (cannon) decks, which were very low and cramped and on which it was impossible to "wave" a saber or stab with a long thin sword. Those. The dagger is a stabbing "shock" (on my copy the handle ends with a sharp "bump") intended for close combat in cramped conditions, so the blade was not sharpened, and the size of my copy is more gift and ceremonial.

    Well, in our city, in principle, you can buy copies of the dagger, incl. and navy. Price from 5,5 to 12,5. The comrade will be 60 years old in August, served in the Caspian, EMNIP midshipman, and for some combination of circumstances he didn’t have it (maybe passed). We want him to make a gift
    1. faterdom
      faterdom 22 May 2020 16: 21 New
      +4
      Well, yes, I agree. Daggers in the 50-60s, the cord on the furagu is already the mid 70s. Different jambs of rear guards. Only for me, so the parade of those times is still the best, though ... I myself wore a standing collar only in old-style tunics, I don’t know what the parade was with him. It looks beautiful, but is it comfortable?
  • Shkworen
    Shkworen 22 May 2020 16: 36 New
    +4
    My grandfather fought, though not for long, he served in the engineering troops and in 1942 he was transferred from the front to Nizhny Novgorod (then it was Gorky), to build an aircraft plant. But he was also given a dirk, even though he served in the ground forces. I have never seen him live, he died 10 years before my birth, in 1969, and only a few photographs and a dagger remain from him.
  • Sergey S.
    Sergey S. 22 May 2020 17: 29 New
    +4
    Scientists believe that this is a term that came into the Russian language - a derivative of the word "knife" in different languages ​​of the world. Some consider Persia as the "source", others India, where the words "curt" and "krtis" meant precisely "knife".

    I don’t know how scientists came to the conclusion that the dagger comes from Persia or India ...
    Old fleet officers spoke differently and much easier.
    Since ancient times, the symbol of the officer was a sword.
    But with a long sword on the ship is not convenient.
    So they shortened it ... it turned out to be a dagger.
    1. Gato
      Gato 22 May 2020 18: 49 New
      +3
      It is believed that
      The dagger appeared in Scotland among landowners and farmers. It was a shortened saber (45 cm. - 60 cm.) With a bow or guard instead of a complex hilt. The dagger was a stabbing and chopping weapon and so convenient that it became widespread throughout Britain and at sea, both among pirates and in the Royal Navy, and then in the fleets of all countries. He was indispensable in the throng of boarding fights. When the pirates got out, and the success of boarding began to depend on the artillery preparation and the rate of fire of personal weapons, the dagger quickly began to degenerate, shortening and straightening, until it turned into a decorative pendant on the front uniform of all military branches.

      This sample is an exact copy of the XNUMXth century sea dagger.

  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 22 May 2020 17: 42 New
    +3
    In the second half of the 60s of the last century, graduates of the Orenburg letka were celebrating in a cafe in Orsk, and older students on the Il-28 flew here. Apparently they were prepared for naval aviation, handsome men, all with one dagger. The boys and I even broke one to show. You understand, for a sixth grader, to touch such a thing, this is an event.
  • Tank hard
    Tank hard 22 May 2020 18: 24 New
    +7
    It is not very clear what the authorities are guiding by not allowing seamen to resign with a dagger, which is mainly of status importance, because as cold steel there are samples superior to the dagger. Even a piece of armature of 60-70 centimeters in skillful hands surpasses this dagger as a weapon. Do they really want to humiliate the retirees by taking away the status item?
    1. Obliterator
      Obliterator 22 May 2020 23: 12 New
      +2
      Quote: Tank Hard
      It is not very clear what the authorities are guiding by not allowing seamen to resign with a dagger, which is mainly of status importance, because as cold steel there are samples superior to the dagger. Even a piece of armature of 60-70 centimeters in skillful hands surpasses this dagger as a weapon. Do they really want to humiliate the retirees by taking away the status item?

      Inertia of thinking and red tape. Most likely, there is no purpose to humiliate it, it’s just that the bureaucrats don’t give a damn about the status of the dagger and its significance for the officers, they simply cannot understand this.
      1. Tank hard
        Tank hard 22 May 2020 23: 27 New
        +2
        Quote: Obliterator
        Most likely there is no purpose to humiliate

        But that’s exactly what it looks like. request
        1. Obliterator
          Obliterator 22 May 2020 23: 47 New
          +3
          Quote: Tank Hard
          But that’s exactly what it looks like.

          So it looks for officers and understanding people. In the official’s opinion, there is nothing more than compliance with a formal rule.
    2. ccsr
      ccsr 23 May 2020 11: 00 New
      +5
      Quote: Tank Hard
      Do they really want to humiliate the retirees by taking away the status item?

      I don’t know what time you are talking about, but in Soviet times, nobody took the daggers from the officers with whom he was put on in full dress after they were transferred to the reserve. He only needed to be handed over to the draft board after the death of an officer. But they did not pay much attention to this, and some descendants keep daggers as a memory of their parents. Although of course the dagger falls under the law on the storage of cold steel, and this also must be taken into account by those who have it at home.
      1. Tank hard
        Tank hard 23 May 2020 11: 49 New
        0
        Quote: ccsr
        in Soviet times, no one took the daggers from the officers with whom he was put on in full dress after they were transferred to the reserve. He only needed to be handed over to the draft board after the death of an officer. But they did not pay much attention to this, and some descendants keep daggers as a memory of their parents

        Duc and I about ... repeat
      2. hohkn
        hohkn 23 May 2020 12: 02 New
        +1
        Quote: ccsr
        Although of course the dagger falls under the law on the storage of cold steel, and this also must be taken into account by those who have it at home.

        Cold steel storage is not punishable. So they can safely store. But wearing, not having the right to do so, is fraught. Otherwise, everything is correct.
        1. Pathos
          Pathos 25 May 2020 14: 23 New
          0
          You still say that possession of drugs at home is not punishable belay Only the term less punishable than from the sale and use / use No.
          1. hohkn
            hohkn 26 May 2020 21: 40 New
            0
            Do not confuse dope and edged weapons.
            Article 222 of the Criminal Code. Responsibility for knives is provided in only 4 parts.
            "4. Illegal sale of civilian smooth-bore long-barreled firearms, firearms of limited destruction, gas weapons, cold steel, including throwing weapons, -
            (in the edition of Federal Laws from 08.12.2003 N 162-ФЗ, from 28.12.2010 N 398-ФЗ)
            shall be punishable by compulsory labor for a term of up to four hundred and eighty hours, or correctional labor for a term of one to two years, or restraint of liberty for a term of up to two years, or compulsory labor for a term of up to two years, or arrest for a term of three to six months, or imprisonment for a term of up to two years with or without a fine in the amount of up to eighty thousand rubles or in the amount of the convict's salary or other income for a period of up to six months. "
            If you want, you can see for yourself.
      3. Pathos
        Pathos 25 May 2020 14: 19 New
        +1
        Like the bayonet, the knife is also a cold weapon, I have one damn thing, as I saw in the garage, I was lying in a conspicuous place for boasting, change it or I’d give it to the cops; found they let go on the brakes, they refused, now I don’t tell anyone and don’t show that I have such an instrument. And I don’t advise others to brag and show, they go number plates. They gave it to me and in what kind of fuss he could participate I don’t know can and close forever. So then comrades request
  • Gato
    Gato 22 May 2020 18: 29 New
    +1
    The length of the classic officer’s dagger is 40 cm. The total length of the admiral’s dagger is 44 cm, of which 28 cm is the blade. There is also an option with a 49-cm dagger

    Yes, there is something to measure lol Not the length of the ships ...
  • Old26
    Old26 22 May 2020 20: 34 New
    +5
    Quote: Tank Hard
    It’s not very clear how the authorities are guided by not allowing seamen with a dagger to resign,

    If only the dagger was involved. In general, edged weapons in our country are a separate topic. Some progress was made in terms of what to count and what not to count XO. But it is more profitable for the authorities to "not let go" than to regulate all this.
    1. Tank hard
      Tank hard 22 May 2020 23: 23 New
      0
      Quote: Old26
      In general, edged weapons in our country is a separate issue.

      That is yes. A peculiar topic, I would say.
      Quote: Old26
      Some progress was made in terms of what to count and what not to count XO.

      But everything is not so bad with this, and sometimes it even looks anecdotal. IMHO. With ROX, for example, you can at least bеbooth to have. But with regards to the dagger and the retirees of the fleet, the situation is not beautiful, in my opinion.
  • Obliterator
    Obliterator 22 May 2020 23: 03 New
    +4
    It is high time for the state to stop dealing with this nonsense, and finally remove all restrictions on the circulation of so-called "cold weapons". Then there will be no problems with daggers. These restrictions do not contribute to any crime prevention, but create problems only for law-abiding citizens and manufacturers of weapons.
    1. Tank hard
      Tank hard 22 May 2020 23: 29 New
      +1
      Quote: Obliterator
      It is high time for the state to stop dealing with this nonsense, and finally remove all restrictions on the circulation of so-called "cold weapons". Then there will be no problems with daggers. These restrictions do not contribute to any crime prevention, but create problems only for law-abiding citizens and manufacturers of weapons.

      Perhaps I agree with you here. hi
  • 75 Sergey
    75 Sergey 23 May 2020 01: 23 New
    +1
    Dirks must be returned.
    And who else in the world still wears them as an attribute of formal attire?
  • Mikhalych
    Mikhalych 24 May 2020 09: 32 New
    0
    You read wretched-scribbled articles and you may get the impression that in Russian there are no words at all. All words are borrowed from Sanskrit, from Germans, English, Turks, etc. The settlement of peoples of the peoples went from west to east, therefore, not in Russian words from Sanskrit, but vice versa. The British generally distorted many words, for example, the knight Aivengo is written (Ritter Ivanhoe) or the Ratar Ivanko. From the word army. So do not believe the Westerners - ass kissers.
    bully
  • Old26
    Old26 24 May 2020 15: 34 New
    +2
    Quote: Mikhalych
    You read wretched-scribbled articles and you may get the impression that in Russian there are no words at all. All words are borrowed from Sanskrit, from Germans, English, Turks, etc. The settlement of peoples of the peoples went from west to east, therefore, not in Russian words from Sanskrit, but vice versa. The British generally distorted many words, for example, the knight Aivengo is written (Ritter Ivanhoe) or the Ratar Ivanko. From the word army. So do not believe the Westerners - ass kissers.
    bully

    Well, exactly how the resettlement was going on, even a major specialist in this area will not tell you, since this time was probably stretched for centuries, at least. Well, what to do if the word came to the Russian language from the west, south or east. The name came from the west - good. Something else came from the east - if it has taken root, why not use it
  • Old26
    Old26 25 May 2020 00: 23 New
    +2
    Quote: Mikhalych
    The British generally simply distorted many words, for example, the knight Aivengo is written (Ritter Ivanhoe) or the Ratar Ivanko. From the word army.

    We also sometimes distorted the words. Recently there was an article about such a rank as corporal. Also distorted German gefighter