Military Review

Mutually beneficial surrender, or Why the US is not so proud of victory over Japan

159
Mutually beneficial surrender, or Why the US is not so proud of victory over Japan

Indeed, why? Not so long ago, Trump, and after him all the US media began to yell together on the topic of how America and Britain won the war with Germany. Our habitually responded in the style of "Yes, we saw your lend-lease, get on," in general, everything is as always.


But, having unscrewed a couple of years ago, I looked at what was written in the overseas media on the topic of victory over Japan.

Surprised because nothing of the kind. Well, like, the vile Japanese gave us Pearl Harbor, and then everything was not very good, but we won and the Japanese got better and became good.

That is, in short история US and Japanese wars. In the advanced version, there is still a battle at the Mariana Islands, in Leyte Gulf and, of course, Midway. And Okinawa is like a cherry on a cake.

But this is for the most advanced.

And yes, about atomic bombs - with aspiration and tears in his eyes. Well, the Japanese were so desperate and cool, that if it weren’t for atomic bombs, they could have lost or not won the war.

Strange picture.

He began to dig. The results surprised, if not to say, plunged into amazement. And therefore a whole new historical detective story was drawn, with which I will introduce you now.

But let's start with one very interesting thing. You can say - seditious. Is it true that the Japanese emperor was so afraid of atomic bombs that he decided to surrender? Or was there something else?

Something else.

In fact, the atomic explosions did not greatly perplex the Japanese. Yes, the effect, of course, was, and a huge number of dead civilians, and radiation, which crippled the Japanese for many years, but ...

But it doesn’t add up, right?

Hiroshima on August 6, Nagasaki on August 9, and the emperor and the "Big Six" (the most influential ministers) what? But nothing. We consulted and thought right up to August 14th. And even that, the votes were divided three against three and the decisive was the voice of the emperor Hirohito himself.

But in theory, horrified by the results of Hiroshima, the Japanese immediately had to think. And after Nagasaki, all the more, but it didn’t happen.

Here is a series of photos that give an answer to the question “why didn’t happen”.














Hiroshima? Nagasaki? Yeah almost. The first three are Hiroshima, the next are Tokyo March 1945. Who will try to find a significant difference? So you will not find much.

The thing is that by August 1945, the Japanese were very trained in American bombing. The very same German scenario, 200-500 bombers demolished in coal (wooden and paper buildings contributed) to the city, fighters as always are not able to fight back, in general, everything is clear.

And if you count in kilotons, then in general you get something unimaginable. In the summer of 1945, Americans methodically destroyed one Japanese city after another. In Japan, 68 cities were bombed, and all of them were destroyed from 50 to 95%. About 1,7 million people were left without a roof over their heads, 300 people died and 000 were injured.

64 ordinary aviation raids, two with atomic bombs. The power of the bomb dropped on Hiroshima is known - 16 kilotons, the bomb that Nagasaki got was more powerful - 20 kilotons. But the same Americans at one time calculated that 500 B-29 bombers could carry, depending on the range, from 5 to 8 kilotons.

We look at the photo of Tokyo and understand that the difference is not very big.


There is a secret here in weakening the initially terrible shock wave of an atomic explosion by buildings, canals, and other structures that stand in the way of the wave. At the same time, thousands of bombs of lower power very confidently carry everything, "without being distracted." So there is still a need to see what was more effective in terms of destruction.

Tokyo at night from March 9 to 10, 1945, went as it did not get to any city in the world. The city was destroyed by fires 41 square kilometers of territory. About 120 Japanese were killed. Hiroshima is only the second most dead, if that ...

Yes, from the point of view of a normal person, Hiroshima is something beyond. But in Japan, the sample of 1945, it was a normal and ordinary thing. 68 cities. Some are destroyed completely or almost completely. Numazu - 91%. Kuana - 78%. Toyama - 99%.

Three weeks before Hiroshima, the US Air Force raided 26 cities. Of these, eight were destroyed either completely or more than Hiroshima (17th in the percentage of destruction).

Doesn't fit, right? Well, or it does not look very impressive, because by the time of the atomic bombing 66 cities had been destroyed. A drop overflowing the cup? No. It was not like that at all.

In the same March 1945, after Tokyo virtually ceased to be a city, former Foreign Minister Sidehara Kijuro said words that many shared at that time: “People will gradually get used to being bombed every day. Over time, their unity and determination will only grow stronger. ”

By the way, according to contemporaries, Sidehara was a very moderate politician ...

And the preserved minutes of the meetings of the High Council of Japan (yes, not all have survived) indicate that the gentlemen of the emperor’s assisted the bombing of the cities ... twice!

In May 1945, when the Americans smashed three Mitsubishi factories producing fighter jets, and August 9th. The rest of the time the air raids did not bother the government at all.

And yet, why not on August 6 the gentlemen from the High Council rushed to sit, but on the 9th?

Here you need to look at the map. Japan captured a fairly significant territory, but by 1945 it was gradually losing its position in the region.


Yes, the environment was not the best. The fleet suffered irreparable losses, the aviation was also in poor shape, but the ground forces numbered almost 4 million soldiers, of which about 1,2 million were on the Japanese islands.

The Americans categorically did not want to climb the Islands. Generals and admirals were well aware that fanatical Japanese soldiers would not just fight, but to die. Given how many of them, the US Army and Navy took such a position, trying to inflict maximum damage by bombing.

The Japanese themselves were well aware that the war was lost. This was understood by both the government and the headquarters. And the whole question was how to lose the war. On what terms.

By that time, the Japanese were well aware of the results of the surrender of Germany and no one had built any illusions.

The United States and Great Britain demanded "unconditional surrender." The Soviet Union was still neutral and demanded nothing. Therefore, the Japanese rulers still hoped to avoid these promising military tribunals, to preserve the existing form of state power and some of the territories captured by Tokyo: Korea, Vietnam, Burma, parts of Malaysia and Indonesia, part of eastern China.

Почему нет?

The Japanese even had two plans: diplomatic and military.

The diplomatic is to plow as an intermediary ... the Soviet Union! Well, a normal plan! The Japanese did not violate the 1941 treaty, they behaved good-naturedly, so why not the Soviet Union become a mediator between Japan and opponents of the empire, who are allies of the USSR at the same time?

Cunningly twisted, but there was a sense. The most interesting thing is that Stalin, who already understood that Truman was not Roosevelt at all, could very well have taken such a step. And thereby try to weaken the influence of the British and Americans in Asia. As an option - return lost during the Russo-Japanese War Port Arthur and Dalniy, for example.

That was the plan of the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Togo Shigenori. From my point of view, a logical plan.

There were others, from the military under the leadership of Army Minister Anami Koretika. The military believed that when the Americans did run into airplanes and start the invasion, they would force them to "wash their blood" and thereby try to bargain for more acceptable conditions for surrender.

There were also chances of success, because in reality the command of the US Army was frightened by the possible huge losses during the invasion of the Japanese islands.

And both options were alive and were considered until August 8, 1945.

Hiroshima clearly didn't scare anyone in Japan. You could still go and ask Stalin to become a mediator, you could still give one or two decisive battles, but ...

On August 9th, everything changed.

On April 5, 1945, the Soviet Union denounced the Treaty, and on August 9 declared war on Japan.

It is clear that the diplomatic plan has gone into oblivion. The USSR at one point from a possible mediator became an adversary with all the ensuing consequences.


The worst thing is that there was nothing to hold back the skating rink, which began to gain momentum, moving towards the borders of Japan! Yes, there was the Kwantung Army, but it was greatly weakened by the fact that part (the best) was transferred to protect the Islands.

But even that would not save, really. The Red Army didn’t grind like that, so a one-way ticket was issued with the best units, without them — the Kwantung Army. They would just have tinkered a bit longer, but the result would have been the same.

What can we say about the 16th Army, which numbered about 100 people and which, in theory, was to be stopped by the 000th Japanese Territorial Army on Sakhalin? Two divisions and two brigades, of course, are not the best.

Of course they would. And there already Hokkaido and Honshu give up pure oars ...

Yes, our Pacific Fleet was not the biggest fleet, 2 light cruisers, 1 leader, 12 destroyers. But the Japanese no longer had that. More precisely, there were ships, but they stood without fuel. And 43 landing ships from the Americans (glory to Lend-Lease!) Could catch the nostalgia for all the northern territories.

And most importantly - the example of the Germans was indicative: no one won the war on two fronts.

And exactly what the Japanese were so afraid of happened: the Soviet Union began the movement, crushing everything in its path.

The worst thing about this was that, yes, our soldiers were not so cared for. And if the Americans were simply trampling on the doorstep of the Japanese hut, then our soldiers, who were already tired of fighting, began to spread outbuildings in the north. And (according to plans) in 10 days already be directly on Japanese territory.

That's where the horror is. The empire began to stagger.

But the Japanese rulers came to this conclusion a few months before. At a meeting of the High Council in June 1945, they came to the conclusion that the entry into the war of the USSR would sentence the empire. The deputy chief of staff of the Japanese army, Kawabe, said at that meeting: "Maintaining peace in our relations with the Soviet Union is an indispensable condition for the continuation of the war."

That is why the Japanese leadership was not particularly worried about the bombing. It was like a nuisance without strategic consequences.

Unlike the Stalinist iron broom, which began to sweep Asia.


Put yourself in the place of the emperor.

The country is losing (and rapidly) the war. The economy is in ruins. 80% of cities are destroyed and burned. The fleet suffered heavy losses and does not leave the bases. People are starting to starve. The army, however, is still good, but the Russians are working on this problem.

Americans until this moment grabbed territory that, in fact, were not Japanese. Rob the loot, in fact.

Soviet troops began the return of their territories lost after the Russo-Japanese War, but who said that they would rest on their laurels?

After Germany, hardly anyone could speak with confidence about such things. The loss of real Japanese territories and (horror!) The introduction of the communist regime there is really a nightmare for the Japanese emperor.

But, on the other hand, capitulating is also not very pleasant. Especially telling his people that now these northern barbarians will devour us. And so they wanted to remove the emperor and abolish capitulation, it’s good that the coup did not succeed.

And following the example of many Germans (and not only Germans), the emperor made the most advantageous decision. That is, he rushed to the feet of good Americans. Yes, yes, thereby destroying 68 cities with a population and infecting Japan with radiation for a long time.


Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs have become a very convenient occasion. Luxurious like that.

The proud Japanese nation capitulated to the newest miracleweaponsbut not before the crowds of Russians! Neither the military who lost the war nor the politicians who failed to dissuade Stalin from the denunciation of the Treaty were to blame, the atomic bomb was to blame.

Accordingly, the emperor is not at all to blame. And his ministers are not to blame. And the military. Nobody is to blame for the fact that the Americans invented the atomic bomb.

An interesting twist, isn't it?

Two bombs killed three rabbits.

First.
They preserved the legitimacy and popularity of the emperor. On the arm of the Japanese, on the arm (of course!) The Americans. On the throne, a completely obedient and controlled monarch! Well, a gift!

Second.

Agree, until recently, we also looked at Japan as a victim country. Well, nuclear weapons, such cruelty ... And they left behind the scenes how the Japanese behaved in the occupied territories and with the prisoners. Nanking massacre, "death marches", the total destruction of the Burmese ... Everything somehow faded into the background. Only poor Japanese residents remained, on which the Americans dropped atomic bombs.

The third.

Complete submission of the entire region to the Americans. Well, a share of flattery, because atomic bombs ensured victory over Japan.

In general, it is worth recalling that the Japanese really got off cheaply in terms of trials of war criminals. It took ...

Overall a very mutually beneficial deal. The emperor remained on the throne, the specter of communism went north, the Americans enjoy the laurels of the victors.

Indeed, on the part of the Soviet Union and Russia, there has never been a creep about the fact that in five days we did what the Americans failed in four years. Yes, the Americans, the British, the New Zealanders, the Australians - they all did a great job by stopping and bled Japan.

We have helped. It was. There is no way to erase this from history.

Today, when we calmly look at what ended 75 years ago, some gentlemen burn in one place and just want to steal the Victory. Here it is, like ours. Because such relative silence in the East and so close attention in the West.

I'd like, you know, to be the first in everything. Today - at all costs.

It is very difficult to fight with such huge forces that they rush into the battle against us today. But - it is possible. Especially if you look at things correctly.

And everything becomes very simple: neither American landmines and lighters, nor even atomic bombs caused panic at the Japanese ruling elite. Not the US Navy so scared Emperor Hirohito.

This was done by our soldiers, who extended a helping hand to their American allies and brothers in arms.


I'm sorry that in America they try to forget it. But nothing, we recall.


We have the right.
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  1. svp67
    svp67 22 May 2020 05: 20 New
    +9
    The Japanese treaty of 1941 never violated
    Well, apart from the big problems being created on our borders, where we were forced to keep more than a millionth group throughout the war and, of course, losses in our merchant fleet.
    The main reason that led the Emperor to surrender was that the Red Army very quickly deprived Japan of its industrial and resource base in Manchuria and China, without which Japan had no chance whatsoever
    1. Avior
      Avior 22 May 2020 07: 00 New
      14
      Sorry, but at that time Japan was in such a tough sea blockade that there was no use for resources anywhere in Japan itself - they simply could not be delivered to Japan.
      1. 210ox
        210ox 22 May 2020 14: 56 New
        0
        Why not? From North China or what? They had such an opportunity. Of course, from more distant territories, this was a problem. Especially since 1944.
        1. Avior
          Avior 22 May 2020 17: 15 New
          +2
          It is about the end of the summer of 1945
    2. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins 22 May 2020 07: 27 New
      +9
      Not happy with the article. In an aggressively obsessive manner familiar to himself, the author gives out his thoughts as a new page in history ...
      Hiroshima clearly didn't scare anyone in Japan. - an interesting remark, isn't it? As an example, others are cited, gradually the destroyed cities of Japan.
      You know, when I ride a bicycle, millions of grains of sand hit my face. They annoy me, but they don’t knock me off the saddle. But if you compress these grains of sand into a cobblestone and just throw it at my meeting ...
      And the emperor and the ministers, I think, simply pragmatically calculated the remaining human and material resources. And, realizing that they were close to the border, they made the right decision for the people.
      1. Octopus
        Octopus 22 May 2020 09: 09 New
        10
        Quote: Leader of the Redskins
        And the emperor and the ministers, I think, simply pragmatically calculated the remaining human and material resources. And, realizing that they were close to the border, they made the right decision for the people.

        Unfortunately, the emperor and ministers always had more or less spit on the Japanese people. This is pretty obvious.

        Fortunately for the Japanese, the August events allowed the party of national traitors to swaddle, finally, the party of patriots, to lure Hirohito to their side and prevent the war from ending too badly.

        Even in a country like 40s Japan, sane people can even take over the government. This inspires cautious optimism to the citizens of the Russian Federation.
        1. Engineer
          Engineer 22 May 2020 10: 26 New
          +7
          1. There Prince Konoe at the head of the Peace Party. Caliber is serious
          2. The peace party existed before the war
          3. The military by 1945 put themselves full woodpeckers in front of everyone - both in front of their peacekeeper and in front of soldiers, sailors and junior officers.
          "They talk about Yamato as a floating hotel for sick and silly admirals" - T. Hara
          1. Octopus
            Octopus 22 May 2020 10: 28 New
            +1
            Quote: Engineer
            1. There Prince Konoe at the head of the Peace Party. Caliber is serious

            )))
            I'm writing a sheet about it. I’ll add it.
            Quote: Engineer
            3. The military by 1945 put themselves full woodpeckers in front of everyone - both in front of their peacekeeper and in front of soldiers, sailors and junior officers.

            But there was enough strength. Not to the Americans, of course, but to slaughter their national-ministering ministers.
            1. Engineer
              Engineer 22 May 2020 10: 32 New
              +2
              I'm writing a sheet about it. I'll add it

              Will there be about the heady Yankees, the near Truman, the insidious Stalin who outplayed everyone? I put the curbs of Sobyanin in the yard in the yard so that at least 2 out of 3 points
              1. Octopus
                Octopus 22 May 2020 10: 33 New
                +2
                Honestly, I didn’t plan. But I’ll add it, if necessary.
                1. Engineer
                  Engineer 22 May 2020 10: 41 New
                  +3
                  Of course, the public is already fed
                  You give the Friday cabin in comments passing on Saturday.
              2. 210ox
                210ox 22 May 2020 15: 01 New
                +2
                Sobyanin has to do with curbs ?! For some reason I thought that these borders in St. Petersburg .. what Sorry for the offtopic .. And so, yes, of course it was our people who put a bullet in the Second World War ... And not the Amers with their bombs.
              3. Fat
                Fat 23 May 2020 01: 50 New
                -1
                Thank you, my insidious, insidious one, And why is the Sobyanin from Moscow in the yard in order to be at least ....
                1. Fat
                  Fat 23 May 2020 01: 51 New
                  -1
                  We ra .... While we CAN!
        2. Procyon lotor
          Procyon lotor 22 May 2020 11: 08 New
          +2
          Unfortunately, the emperor and ministers always had more or less spit on the Japanese people. This is pretty obvious.

          And how does this differ from what is happening in Russia. The president and the government also do not care about the Russian people.
          1. Octopus
            Octopus 22 May 2020 13: 03 New
            +3
            Quote: Procyon Lotor
            And how does this differ from what is happening in Russia.

            You won’t believe it, but Japan is an incredibly interesting country for Russia. With all the eastern exoticism, these countries have strikingly much in common in historical development.

            Unfortunately, it is studied very little.
          2. Fat
            Fat 23 May 2020 01: 55 New
            -2
            Yes, of course .... We know about stone. Go And Search! .
            1. Fat
              Fat 23 May 2020 01: 58 New
              -3
              ass, I don’t even cry out, forget about the missing box ...
        3. Maki Avellevich
          Maki Avellevich 22 May 2020 16: 19 New
          +1
          Quote: Octopus
          Even in a country like 40s Japan, sane people can even take over the government. This inspires cautious optimism to the citizens of the Russian Federation.

          Very few Japanese live in Russia. It is unlikely that they will seize the government.
          1. Pug
            Pug 22 May 2020 16: 22 New
            +1
            Quote: Maki Avellievich
            Very few Japanese live in Russia. It is unlikely that they will seize the government.

            And at the expense of the Jews you have no statistics Avelievich in Israel ..))))) Well, you made me laugh .. laughing
          2. Fat
            Fat 23 May 2020 02: 56 New
            0
            In Japan, there are a lot of grievances, they are unlikely to forgive your exercise. Do not visit nearby ports. Dmitry, just respect these friendly people ....
      2. saigon
        saigon 22 May 2020 09: 14 New
        +4
        Hiroshima most likely did not frighten the population, the civilian connection in Japan at that time was absent in fact and for a hundred kilometers no one knew what.
        But what the author missed was that when he began military operations with Japan at the Pacific Fleet, the first thing he did was to start the MIND performances, interestingly against which enemy?
        Yes, and the landing in Hokkaido is somehow easy for the author to imagine.
        1. Fat
          Fat 23 May 2020 03: 08 New
          -2
          Victor, Let's start with the fact that the USSR and Japan had a peace treaty ... Well, they followed it as best they could .... What kind of geography was there ... Japan fought with foreign countries, except for the USSR ..... Well, what is it like none .... But one Japanese pilot ... How is it .... "simpu tokubetsu kogegi tai" Well, hit!
      3. Altona
        Altona 22 May 2020 13: 25 New
        +2
        Quote: Leader of the Redskins
        Hiroshima clearly didn't scare anyone in Japan. - an interesting remark, isn't it? As an example, other, gradually destroyed cities of Japan are given.

        -------------------------
        Why? Tokyo in its destruction is commensurate with Hiroshima, this is not news. As for your metaphor, then, let's say you get not one such powerful blow to the face, but several slightly less powerful blows to the body and face, but with the same consequences. As for limited resources, this is also true. Everything was a consequence of a combination of factors, and not a consequence of a single factor of nuclear bombing.
      4. EvilLion
        EvilLion 22 May 2020 13: 41 New
        +1
        In fact, Hiroshima is only 4th in the list of destroyed cities. That is, the atomic bomb of those years is not stronger than 1000 bombers. At the same time, the strikes themselves passed so easily, because the Japanese no longer raised fighters to intercept single targets, the fuel was dumb. The cost of an atomic bomb is cosmic, and Japanese physicists should have understood this too. That is, the strikes will be single, and single aircraft, if intercepted, will not break through. => the strike with a high probability was thwarted, in contrast to the raid of 1000 bombers. Well, to say that the enemy has created a miracle weapon, therefore, we must surrender, keeping a good face, this is a politically competent move.
        1. 210ox
          210ox 22 May 2020 15: 07 New
          +3
          But the Amersans used their entire stockpile — even two bombs. It would take them more than a month to create a few more bombs.
          1. Maki Avellevich
            Maki Avellevich 22 May 2020 19: 39 New
            +2
            Quote: 210ox
            But the Amersans used their entire stockpile — even two bombs. It would take them more than a month to create a few more bombs.

            Did Japan know that?
        2. Maki Avellevich
          Maki Avellevich 22 May 2020 16: 25 New
          +1
          Quote: EvilLion
          The cost of the atomic bomb is cosmic, and Japanese physicists should also have understood this.

          Japan at that moment presented the price of an atomic bomb only through intelligence. And they are always either reliable or misinformation.
          Your program has not gone far enough. In addition, what was their confidence that the Americans would not invest in a couple of other three products?
          1. Nikolai Korovin
            Nikolai Korovin 22 May 2020 19: 24 New
            +1
            The bombs did make an impression. For everyone. I remember that I somehow got hold of the corresponding issue of the Pravda newspaper from 1945, where it was claimed that the Americans killed only 15-20 thousand people in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. So that theirs are not too afraid, if anything. Which, of course, was completely untrue.
      5. bubalik
        bubalik 22 May 2020 16: 43 New
        +3
        Not happy with the article. In an aggressively obsessive manner familiar to himself, the author gives out his thoughts as a new page in history ..

        ... source: Ward Wilson - Senior Fellow at the British American Security Information Council
        https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/05/30/the-bomb-didnt-beat-japan-stalin-did/

        ,,, in:
        https://topwar.ru/135299-pobedu-nad-yaponiey-oderzhala-ne-bomba-a-stalin.htmlhttps://topwar.ru/135299-pobedu-nad-yaponiey-oderzhala-ne-bomba-a-stalin.html
      6. zwlad
        zwlad 22 May 2020 20: 16 New
        0
        Quote: Leader of the Redskins
        made the right decision for the people.

        I doubt that for the people.
        If only for the people, there would be no second bomb.
        I liked the article.
        Respect the author!
      7. antivirus
        antivirus 26 May 2020 17: 48 New
        0
        I'm sorry that in America they try to forget it. But nothing, we recall.

        -we will not win a second time, the reason is the absence of dairy cows and tax, a governing force ("clenched into a single fist") and people who are ready to live according to the laws of a semi-natural economy - INDEPENDENT, AUTONOMOUS EXISTENCE IN THIS YEARS AND SEVERAL YEARS WITHOUT IMPORT ( Lend-lease does not count, the volumes are not the same now)
        it is comforting for the military to put themselves and their kind in the center of the universe, managers understand that an effective managment will not replace milk from a cow
    3. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 22 May 2020 09: 07 New
      +6
      "Siberian" divisions that stopped the Wehrmacht near Moscow, where did they come from?
    4. Dr. Frankenstucker
      Dr. Frankenstucker 22 May 2020 11: 15 New
      +1
      Well, unfortunately, by mistake, Cap Meiji Tagami drowned our L-25 with the entire crew near the Pan.channel in October 16 as the last torpedo with its I-1942.
    5. Civil
      Civil 22 May 2020 11: 34 New
      +1
      As a result, by 2020, all the main participants in the war had advanced ahead in development: the USA, Japan, China, South Korea. But we have been skidding for 20 years, and the DPRK as a drug addict in general has slipped into the slave system of BC.
      1. Altona
        Altona 22 May 2020 13: 26 New
        +5
        Quote: Civil
        But we have been slipping for 20 years

        -------------------------
        A huge labor tax and low salary are the main factor. The rest is blah blah blah.
      2. Alf
        Alf 22 May 2020 18: 57 New
        0
        And what's this?
  2. apro
    apro 22 May 2020 05: 34 New
    +4
    I did not understand the author. The topic of why the Americans did not boast about victory over Japan was not disclosed.
    Who really defeated Japan is also not clear. Here and Yaba. And the red skating rink. And the wise will of the ampirator.
    The strategic impasse in which Japan fell after Pearl Harbor is obvious. There was no way to really defeat the Amers and the Britons. Only to conclude an honorable peace on the crest of victories. But the Amer’s interest in the world with Japan is zero.
    1. svp67
      svp67 22 May 2020 08: 22 New
      +6
      Quote: apro
      Who really defeated Japan is also not clear. Here and Yaba. And the red skating rink. And the wise will of the ampirator.

      Although of course the Red Army has made a significant contribution to the defeat of Japan, the United States has borne the brunt of the war with it and they are rightfully the victors of Japan, as we are of Germany
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 22 May 2020 09: 33 New
        +1
        I completely agree with this. In addition, the author rightly wrote that by the 45th year, the Kwantung army was far from the one at the beginning of the war.
        1. cost
          cost 22 May 2020 10: 34 New
          +2
          I liked the article. Just one not big remark
          Novel:Hiroshima clearly didn't scare anyone in Japan. You could still go and ask Stalin to become a mediator, you could still give one or two decisive battles, but ... on August 9, everything changed.

          The Soviet Union, which denounced the Soviet-Japanese Neutrality Pact in April 1945, reaffirmed at the Berlin Conference its readiness to enter the war against Japan in the interests of a quick end to World War II and the elimination of the hotbed of aggression in Asia
          Japanese intelligence could not know about it. Moreover, the text of the Potsdam Declaration was published on July 26 throughout the world press.
          During May - early August 1945, the Soviet command transferred to the Far East part of the troops and equipment liberated in the West (over 400 thousand people, 7137 guns and mortars, 2119 tanks and self-propelled guns). This same thing could not go unnoticed by Japanese intelligence.
          So, neither the Japanese General Staff nor the Japanese government harbored any illusions about the mediation of the USSR
          1. Engineer
            Engineer 22 May 2020 10: 43 New
            0
            Illusions may not have been tortured. But an attempt to seriously use this resource was
          2. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 22 May 2020 14: 17 New
            +2
            Quote: Rich
            So, neither the Japanese General Staff nor the Japanese government harbored any illusions about the mediation of the USSR

            Still as nourished. Even after the publication of the Potsdam Declaration, the Japanese Foreign Ministry was blowing its tune "USSR - a neutral intermediary".
            The position of Japan. Studying the text of the declaration, the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Togo drew attention to two important points. Firstly, despite the fact that the head of the government of the USSR was undoubtedly consulted in Potsdam regarding this declaration, it does not mention his name, so it can be assumed that the Soviet Union legally remains neutral with respect to Japan.
            Secondly, the United States, England, and China, which published this declaration, rejected the requirement of complete unconditional surrender and instead put forward special conditions in eight articles to establish peace with Japan. The phrase about unconditional surrender is used in the declaration only once and refers only to the armed forces of Japan.
            Togo believed that the three indicated states, having received information from the USSR regarding Japan’s desire to end the war, changed their previous position regarding unconditional surrender and proposed instead peaceful conditions.
            (...)
            Togo regards the conditions put forward in the declaration as very difficult, especially with regard to territorial issues. However, now that the military situation has developed extremely unfavorably, these conditions should be considered the maximum that Japan can hope for. Togo, on the other hand, believed that if the Soviet government agreed to mediate, it would probably be possible through negotiations to soften the terms of the Potsdam Declaration. Thus, he considered it necessary, firstly, not to reject the declaration so as not to block the path to further peace negotiations, and, secondly, after receiving the final answer of the Soviet Union regarding the mission of Ko-noe to determine the position of Japan. On July 27, Togo presented his findings personally to the emperor, Prime Minister Suzuki and Minister Keeper of the Seal Kido.
            (...)
            On the other hand, diplomatic negotiations between Sato and Lozovsky after their meeting on July 25 came to a standstill. Stalin was still in Potsdam. No response was received to Japan’s proposal regarding Konoe’s mission. On July 30, Ambassador Sato asked Lozovsky a second time to expedite the response and said that Japan, rejecting the form of unconditional surrender, wanted to end the war on the basis of a compromise ensuring its dignity and existence. Sato asked Lozovsky to pass this on to the Soviet leadership.
            © Hattori Takushiro. Japan in the war of 1941-1945
    2. Doctor
      Doctor 22 May 2020 12: 17 New
      +2
      The strategic impasse in which Japan fell after Pearl Harbor is obvious. There was no way to really defeat the Amers and the Britons. Only to conclude an honorable peace on the crest of victories. But the Amer’s interest in the world with Japan is zero.

      This is a look from our time. Go there.
      Your strongest ally stands near Moscow, Britain is suffocating in blockade and is about to fall, France is at its feet. It remains to deal with the cowboys, and preferably quickly, until the Tirpitz sailed.
      1. apro
        apro 22 May 2020 12: 22 New
        -2
        Quote: Arzt
        This is a look from our time

        Yamato said very well about that situation. We woke the giant. And another phrase. The first year we will win. But if we do not make peace. Japan will lose the war.
        Germany and Japan are very strange allies .... the fate of the USSR would be decided by the entry of Japan into Soviet territory ...
        1. Kronos
          Kronos 22 May 2020 23: 04 New
          -1
          There were significant forces on the border with Japan, and the Japanese were already defeated by the USSR 2 times, so they did not want to take risks
          1. fuxila
            fuxila 23 May 2020 10: 43 New
            +1
            Quote: Kronos
            There were significant forces on the border with Japan, and the Japanese were already defeated by the USSR 2 times, so they did not want to take risks

            You can also add that moving south, Japan received there a rich and well-developed region from which it was possible to immediately pump the resources necessary for the war, and going north, even if they succeeded and seized land to Lake Baikal, they would get a desert that still it would be necessary to master for decades, investing huge amounts of money.
      2. Kronos
        Kronos 22 May 2020 23: 03 New
        0
        No, the same Admiral Yamamoto was against the war, initially indicating that there would be enough resources for half a year and thereafter. Indeed it happened
  3. jonht
    jonht 22 May 2020 06: 03 New
    +5
    Yes, there was no peace in the Far East, as in other matters, and wars, there were constant provocations and even aerial battles of fighter aircraft that covered the transport going to Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky. Search engines at Cape Lopatka find their remains and there are even the remains of a flying American fortress. They did not reach Elizovo.
    1. Alf
      Alf 22 May 2020 19: 08 New
      +1
      Quote: jonht
      there are even the remains of a flying American fortress.

      The commander does not remember the number of our fighter air division as a personal plane used the American anti-submarine Lockheed Ventura, who was on our side of the border.
  4. Nyrobsky
    Nyrobsky 22 May 2020 06: 09 New
    +3
    Good article. At least, it motivates to look at this part of the story from the other side. And what is interesting, Konev forbade artillery to work so as not to destroy Prague, and the "grateful" Czechs are removing his monument. The Americans smashed Dresden into the trash and crumbled half of Japan into rubble together with the entire civilian population, and then you are allies. It would seem that it will soon be 30 years as there is no USSR, but all these "progressive-civilized" doing dirty tricks on Russia, are fighting the USSR. Apparently it was great that we shook them that to this day they have phantom pains and fear of the possibility of the revival of the Union.
    1. Octopus
      Octopus 22 May 2020 09: 18 New
      -8
      Quote: Nyrobsky
      And what is interesting is that Konev forbade artillery to work so as not to destroy Prague, and the "grateful" Czechs are removing his monument

      What a nobility, Konev did not destroy the capital of the country of the anti-Hitler coalition in peacetime. And he could have bombed like Mlada Boleslav on May 9th.

      When the Czechs deal with their scum, like President Zeman, Konev will not be forgotten.
      1. Kronos
        Kronos 22 May 2020 23: 14 New
        0
        Fascist do not hysteria
        1. Octopus
          Octopus 22 May 2020 23: 47 New
          -1
          )))
          Oh, these Russian anti-fascists.

          Let me remind you that on 12.12.1943 the USSR signed an agreement with the government in exile of Beneš in Moscow "On friendship, mutual assistance and post-war cooperation between the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and the Czechoslovak Republic."

          It is the talk that the Czechs should be grateful to Konev, who did not level their capital in friendship with the land, in peacetime, I recall, are extremely appropriate and greatly contribute to a more realistic attitude of the Czechs to the history of Soviet-Czech relations.
      2. Olgovich
        Olgovich 23 May 2020 06: 33 New
        +1
        Quote: Octopus
        When the Czechs deal with their scum like President Zeman

        scum are those who demolished a monument to Konev. who is enthusiastic forged weapons to the Naziswho publicly wept thousands in his Czech capital over Heydrich, those who call Zeman a scum for condemning it.

        Although, that from scum expect yes? request
        1. Octopus
          Octopus 23 May 2020 09: 21 New
          -1
          Quote: Olgovich
          those who call Zeman scum for condemning it.

          If we look for fascists in the Czech Republic, then the main Czech fascist (and, by the way, the main Czech Nazi) is, of course, Benes. The fact that Benes was anti-german nazi the essence of his national policy does not change.
          Mr. Zeman is his big fan.
          Quote: Olgovich
          thousands in his Czech capital according to Heydrich

          I do not know what Heydrich did good for the Czech Republic, I suspect that nothing. But the monument of the 80th year of which you are speaking is a monument of occupation and only occupation. The fact that he stood for 30 years is a shame.

          It is very good that the efforts of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation brought the small-town theme to big decibels. The Czechs should have long been reminded of what friendship with Russia is and what it leads to. On the example of the fate of Benes just. This might be the task of the Russophobes, but the Russian Foreign Ministry with its inimitable hop-style of public discussion will cope, of course, better.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 23 May 2020 10: 18 New
            +2
            Quote: Octopus
            If we look for fascists in the Czech Republic, then the main Czech fascist (and, by the way, the main Czech Nazi) is, of course, Benes. The fact that Benesh was an anti-German Nazi does not change the essence of his national policy.
            Mr. Zeman is his big fan.


            Scum me listed above.
            Quote: Octopus
            I do not know what Heydrich did good for the Czech Republic, I suspect that nothing.
            So ask the Czechs who stood by the thousands and wept over it on the Wratslav Square in Prague after his murder, exactly where the monument to Konev was demolished.

            They will remember how they ate hearty, had plentiful Nazi orders, robbed Jewish property and handed over Jews to the Nazis, laced beer and fucked freely and, yes, fought in their units.
            Quote: Octopus
            But the monument of the 80th year that you are talking about is a monument to the occupation and only occupation. The fact that he stood for 30 years is a shame.

            fool lol
            Occupation - liberation from the Nazis is called only by the Nazis themselves, i.e. YOU.

            Shame that the descendants of the Nazi mongrel removed the monument to the liberator.
            Quote: Octopus
            It is very good that the efforts of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation brought the small-town theme to big decibels. The Czechs should have long been reminded of what friendship with Russia is and what it leads to. On the example of the fate of Benes just. This might be the task of the Russophobes, but the Russian Foreign Ministry with its inimitable hop-style of public discussion will cope, of course, better.

            Friendship with Russia is a salvation from annihilation and from the shame with which the gop Czechs covered themselves, licking the Nazi seat

            And the animals, the Nazi henchmen and the last ones, had to be reminded of this for a long time, which happened.

            PS Zadrali You already hi
            1. Octopus
              Octopus 23 May 2020 11: 03 New
              -1
              Quote: Olgovich
              Scum me listed above.

              Well, here everyone has their own little list. However, you only have a list, and Mr. Kolár, the mayor of Prague-6, has a list and a crane.
              Quote: Olgovich
              They will remember how they ate hearty, had plentiful Nazi orders, robbed Jewish property and handed over Jews to the Nazis, laced beer and fucked freely and, yes, fought in their units.

              Well, you see. And then comrade came Konev and covered raspberries. And what, to him to put monuments for this?
              Quote: Olgovich
              Occupation-exemption from the Nazis

              In order to fit into the liberators from the Nazis (by the way, the Czechs were Nazis, as you write, from whom they were freed?), Comrade Konev should have hurried a little. The question with the Nazis was closed on the night of May 6-7. By May 9, i.e. Konev, Eremenko and Malinovsky were already notified of this event, respectively, their only task was to receive instructions from the Czechoslovak government on the procedure for withdrawing their forces from Czechoslovakia. Everything else is the problem of the Czechoslovak government, no one else. If the Czechoslovak government has any problems with l / s ex. GA Center, which Czechoslovakia does not exempt from itself (although Schörner, unlike Konev, was trying his best to do this), then Benes should contact President Reich Dönitz personally or through the British.

              Only Soviet people do not understand these fairly obvious things. Unfortunately, Soviet people are among the Czech leadership.
              Quote: Olgovich
              salvation from destruction and shame

              There is an opinion that there is no humiliation and shame in serving your country and your people. Even in cases where your own country is an evil empire. The Russians should understand this point of view, it seems to me.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 23 May 2020 12: 57 New
                -1
                Quote: Octopus
                There is a list and a crane.

                Sledgehammer solves issues?
                Bravo! good
                Quote: Octopus
                Well, you see. And then comrade came Konev and covered raspberries. And what, to him to put monuments for this?

                Prostitute, saved from the shame of prostitution.

                They returned a good name, dignity.

                Poorly? yes, for a pimp, somewhere for the prostitute herself (Czech Republic) she was unusually used to living with her legs wide open, but for society as a whole and for her, objectively good.

                Therefore, it is tormented, the poor fellow and takes revenge, that they torn her from the estate.

                Quote: Octopus
                In order to fit into the liberators from the Nazis (by the way, the Czechs were Nazis, as you write, from whom they were freed?), Comrade Konev should have hurried a little. The question with the Nazis was closed on the night of May 6-7. By May 9, i.e. Konev, Eremenko and Malinovsky were already notified of this event, respectively, their only task was to receive instructions from the Czechoslovak government on the procedure for withdrawing their forces from Czechoslovakia. Everything else is the problem of the Czechoslovak government, no one else. If the Czechoslovak government has any problems with l / s ex. GA Center, which Czechoslovakia does not exempt from itself

                In pu, your "to", "respectively" and "must" yes

                For ANYWHERE, NEVER, and ANYONE it was not required and was not.

                There were: the lowest, on their knees, a request from the Czechs, who were mocked by their "courage", to save them, there was an agreement of the allies about Slovakia in the USSR zone, their joint decision to finish off and capture the Nazis (the last JOINT BATTLE OF THE USSR AND THE USA with the Nazis-May 12, thousands of your Nazi corpses) and- agree with all the pr-in Benes. Nothing else

                Your speculations-in ..., however, I have already said.

                Official Czech position. authorities, May 10, Prague: Prague Mayor Peter Zenkl,
                “Our city was saved from death and destruction and torn from the clutches of the Nazis primarily by the heroic Red Army. Dear Slavic brothers! Unparalleled heroism and incomparable self-sacrifice of Soviet soldiers in this terrible world war went down in history. But not only in history - they also entered the hearts of all the inhabitants of Prague and the entire Czechoslovak people. ”

                Got it, no? No.

                Only Russophobian Nerus
                Quote: Octopus
                does not understand these fairly obvious things. .

                Quote: Octopus
                There is an opinion that there is no humiliation and shame in serving your country and your people. Even in cases where your own country is an evil empire. The Russians should understand this point of view, it seems to me.


                Of course. Therefore united european evil empire-uniting Germany, Italy, Hungary, Romania, Czechoslovakia, France, and other Eurosurf smaller committed crimes unheard of in the history of mankind -Russian and forgiven (napsan, as we see).

                PS everything tired. And with his ignorance .......
                1. Octopus
                  Octopus 23 May 2020 13: 54 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  Sledgehammer solves issues?

                  Of course. The Czechs do not want to see Konev - and they are completely right. Petersburgers did not want to see Mannerheim at their place - and they were also completely right. And the conversation is not about which of the horses and mannerheim is bad or good, but that both the residents of Prague and St. Petersburg do what they see fit at home.
                  If the mayor’s office, for example, Chelyabinsk, had been demolished, a monument to the Czechoslovak corps would also be right. If there was a city hall in Chelyabinsk.
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  but for society as a whole and for it, objectively good.

                  It would not hurt you to sit in a tolerant Czech prison and think about your attitude towards those involved in the field of sexual services. Your desire to teach other people the right kind of love is disgusting. By the way, the situation is exactly the same for the monuments.
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  Prague: Prague Mayor Peter Zenkl,

                  This Pan Zenkl spoke at the end of the 45th year. Three years later, he and his family fled to the United States.
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  the last JOINT battle of the USSR and the USA with the Nazis on May 12,

                  Are you talking about Slivice? You are right, there was such an incident. Since Eisenhower’s political work was badly done, William M. Hoge, commander of the 4th TD, mistakenly mistook the Soviet side for the Allies.

                  5 years later, the Soviet side explained to Mr. Hog, the commander of the 9th Corps of the 8th American Army as part of the UN forces in Korea, how wrong he was.
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  there was an agreement of the Allies on ChSlovakia in the zone of the USSR,

                  You are absolutely right.

                  Another plus of protecting historical memory by the Russian Foreign Ministry is the fact that when discussing the actions of the USSR in Eastern Europe, it is impossible not to come to Yalta’s betrayal when Roosevelt surrendered 12 European states to the USSR (in whole or in part) so that the USSR agreed to accept the 13th ( China).
                  Of these states, 3 were members of the anti-Hitler coalition recognized by the United States: Czechoslovakia (government in London), Poland (government in London) and China.

                  It was Roosevelt, and not Konev at all, who gave the Czechs and Slovaks 40 years of Soviet power. But, unfortunately, in Prague, it seems, there is no monument to Roosevelt to demolish it.
    2. Dr. Frankenstucker
      Dr. Frankenstucker 22 May 2020 11: 31 New
      0
      Quote: Nyrobsky
      look at this part of the story from a different perspective.


      Well, before that, from which side did you look?
      1. Nyrobsky
        Nyrobsky 22 May 2020 12: 13 New
        0
        Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
        Quote: Nyrobsky
        look at this part of the story from a different perspective.

        Well, before that, from which side did you look?
        Really did not have information regarding carpet bombing of the mattresses of so many Japanese cities and the damage caused both in the infrastructure and in the part of the mass death of civilians. He perceived Japan’s surrender as the result of a nuclear attack on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but here's the version that it was nicer for the Japanese to surrender to the capitalists' mattresses than the Soviet Communists had never considered. That's somehow I did not ask to study this question in more detail. hi You, I think, were in the subject? winked
        1. Dr. Frankenstucker
          Dr. Frankenstucker 22 May 2020 13: 09 New
          +2
          version about the fact that it was nicer for the Japanese to surrender to the capitalists' mattresses than the Soviet Communists had never considered.


          I suppose they did the right thing. hi The vulgar analogy with Europe, it seems to me, is not at all appropriate here. The Japanese did not have such a burning dilemma "who to surrender" - in his address to the nation on August 15, Hirohito said that he was accepting Potsdam Declaration, whose signatories were the United States, Britain and China.
          1. Nyrobsky
            Nyrobsky 22 May 2020 13: 43 New
            +1
            Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer
            I guess they did the right thing. The vulgar analogy with Europe, it seems to me, is not at all appropriate here. The Japanese did not have such a burning dilemma "who to give up"

            hi
  5. Blackmokona
    Blackmokona 22 May 2020 06: 52 New
    +3
    Just statements about the victory over Japan in the USA do not cause the fifth point of burning for our citizens, that’s all. Therefore, they pass absolutely imperceptibly and painlessly.
  6. Olgovich
    Olgovich 22 May 2020 07: 18 New
    +5
    Agree, until recently, we also looked at Japan as a victim country. Well, nuclear weapons, such cruelty ... And they left behind the scenes how the Japanese behaved in the occupied territories and with the prisoners. Nanking massacre, "death marches", the total destruction of the Burmese ... Everything somehow faded into the background. Only poor Japanese residents remained, on which the Americans dropped atomic bombs.

    I will never agree: no one ever looked at the victim as it was the cruelest, savage aggressor, no better than the Nazis. And he got only a little bit that retribution that he really deserved.

    But the specific inhabitants of Hiroshima, yes, the victims

    The Japanese treaty of 1941 never violated

    And where is the article in the treaty that Japan entitled to attack neutral countries , and the USSR should look at it .... silently? belay

    And aggression punishable according to all international laws and all countries have the right to stop her ...
    1. Octopus
      Octopus 22 May 2020 09: 20 New
      +2
      Quote: Olgovich
      And where is the article in the treaty stating that Japan has the right to attack neutral countries, and the USSR should .... look at it silently?

      This is actually a very short contract. It’s easy to read.

      Yes, it is written there.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 22 May 2020 10: 12 New
        -3
        Quote: Octopus
        This is actually a very short contract. It’s easy to read.

        Yes, it is written there.

        belay fool lol
        Do not peat nonsenseshe's hurt ....
        1. Octopus
          Octopus 22 May 2020 10: 26 New
          +1
          Clearly, reading documents is not your method.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 22 May 2020 11: 33 New
            -3
            Quote: Octopus
            Clearly, reading documents is not your method.

            How can you read what .... NO ?! belay fool lol

            Clause of the contract that Japan entitled to attack neutral countries, and the USSR should . silently watch -which, in your opinion, is -TABLE! am lol
            1. Octopus
              Octopus 22 May 2020 11: 37 New
              +2
              Article Two
              In the event that one of the contracting parties is the subject of hostilities on the part of one or more third powers, the other contracting party will remain neutral throughout the conflict.

              What can be here do not understand? Even Comrade Molotov, unlike you, did not try to play thimbles, but simply canceled the entire contract entirely.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 22 May 2020 12: 17 New
                -2
                Quote: Octopus
                What can you misunderstand?

                You do not understand Russian at all ?! belay lol

                WHERE is here about Japan’s right to ATTACK a third country, while the USSR is SILENT? fool

                Here OTHER situation is stipulated:
                one of the contracting parties will be object of hostilities ON THE SIDE one or several third powersй


                Japan did not the object of the actions of the third power, it is SAMA this object with its military actions made the third power!

                That unclear? request
                1. Octopus
                  Octopus 22 May 2020 12: 25 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Octopus
                  Even Comrade Molotov, unlike you, did not try to play thimbles, but simply canceled the entire contract entirely.

                  Even Comrade Molotov was not so free in his statements as is now customary.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 22 May 2020 12: 39 New
                    -1
                    Quote: Octopus
                    Even Comrade Molotov was not so free in his statements as is now customary.

                    1. Have you figured out the Russian language?

                    Japan became not the object hostilities of a third country, and SUBJECT them, making the object- THIRD country

                    2. Give a statement by Molotov, where he believes otherwise.
                    1. Octopus
                      Octopus 22 May 2020 14: 43 New
                      0
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Japan-did not become the object of hostilities of a third country, but a SUBJECT of them, making it an object- THIRD

                      Yes Yes.
                      The neutrality pact was signed in April 41, Japan has been fighting in China for 4 years. They did not realize, silly ones, that the fact of the hostilities of Japan in China frees the USSR from any obligations.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 22 May 2020 15: 20 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Octopus
                        Yes Yes.
                        The neutrality pact was signed in April of the 41st year, Japan alreadye 4 years fighting in China. They did not realize, silly ones, that the fact of the hostilities of Japan in China frees the USSR from any obligations.

                        1. has been fighting for 10 years since 1931

                        2. Learn what is "object" and what is "subject"

                        3. Stupid, of course: see their result. Is this not a consequence of this?
                      2. Octopus
                        Octopus 22 May 2020 15: 27 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Learn what is "object" and what is "subject"

                        Write about this in Tokyo, Mr. Matsuoka on demand.
                        Although.


                        There actually was a great specialist in linguistics. It stands behind. Sorry, I didn’t make it clear.
                      3. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 22 May 2020 15: 30 New
                        -2
                        Quote: Octopus
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Learn what is "object" and what is "subject"

                        Write about this in Tokyo, Mr. Matsuoka on demand.
                        Although.


                        There actually was a great specialist in linguistics. It stands behind. Sorry, I didn’t make it clear.

                        The specialist just understood

                        MiTsuku to teach .... "To teach Turak, only to spoil!"yes
                      4. Octopus
                        Octopus 22 May 2020 15: 33 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        The specialist just understood

                        That is, in your opinion, the agreement was a fiction from the moment of signing?

                        I totally agree.
                      5. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 23 May 2020 06: 22 New
                        0
                        Quote: Octopus
                        That is, in your opinion, the agreement was a fiction from the moment of signing?

                        I totally agree.


                        No, not "ie" - what nonsense? fool
                        Quote: Octopus
                        Was the contract fictitious since signing?

                        "Fiction" - can not act in reality, and neutrality existed 4 years

                        fiction is a fiction, "does not correspond to reality" = look at the explanatory dictionaries ..
                      6. Octopus
                        Octopus 23 May 2020 09: 11 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        "Fiction" - cannot act in reality, and neutrality existed for 4 years

                        You, I see, endured a mess.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        1. has been fighting for 10 years since 1931

                        2. Learn what is "object" and what is "subject"

                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Japan did not become the object of the actions of the third power, she herself made this object the third power with her military actions.

                        Look through these your dictionaries, maybe something sensible is written.
                      7. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 23 May 2020 09: 51 New
                        0
                        Quote: Octopus
                        s, I look, at the end they perverted.

                        You look in the book, you see, yes .... yes
                        Quote: Octopus
                        Browse through your dictionaries, maybe something sensible is written.

                        I assure you, everything is intelligently written there!

                        And why are you neglecting these? Can't overpower? hi
  • Barmaleyka
    Barmaleyka 22 May 2020 07: 21 New
    +1
    Is it true that the Japanese emperor was so afraid of atomic bombs that he decided to surrender? Or was there something else?
    the country in which there was a competition for enrollment in the CHILDREN'S KAMIKAZE school is unlikely to be afraid of this
  • Free wind
    Free wind 22 May 2020 07: 34 New
    -2
    About scared not scared speech can not be. Nobody was scared there. It was about the existence of Japan as a country. They could hammer in the Stone Age. And if the Chinese crawled there. That Yap could be seen only in the pictures.
    1. Barmaleyka
      Barmaleyka 22 May 2020 07: 54 New
      +1
      enough about the terrible Chinese and the fear of the Japanese
    2. saigon
      saigon 22 May 2020 09: 17 New
      +3
      The question is, how miraculously would the Chinese get into Japan?
      On the junks is not otherwise, but the war in China itself is on the side?
      1. Free wind
        Free wind 22 May 2020 09: 53 New
        -4
        So by then the USSR had already defeated the Japanese on the mainland. And after crossing after our troops, the Chinas could show themselves where they hibernated with cancer.
        1. Barmaleyka
          Barmaleyka 22 May 2020 23: 11 New
          +1
          Quote: Free Wind
          the Sinians could also show themselves where they hibernated with cancer.

          what haven’t been shown before, they were slaughtered like rams in a slaughterhouse, but it turns out that they were just waiting for when they could cross over to Japan to "show themselves"
          yourself not funny?
          1. Free wind
            Free wind 23 May 2020 02: 50 New
            0
            The fact of the matter is that it's not funny. Negroes, Africans are all sorts of things that they got up to, and what they are doing now, in Europe, in America. Can you remember the army "terrible grandfather"? When the hardest starts to mock the young.
            1. Free wind
              Free wind 23 May 2020 02: 53 New
              0
              In how, like ordinary words are wrong. Well then, the most sloppy grandfather.
            2. Barmaleyka
              Barmaleyka 23 May 2020 07: 08 New
              +3
              Quote: Free Wind
              Negroes, all sorts of Africans

              in elderberry garden
              By the way, do you know what "all the Africans" are doing, for example, in South Africa?
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. Barmaleyka
                  Barmaleyka 23 May 2020 21: 48 New
                  0
                  why shorn?
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                  2. The comment was deleted.
                    1. Barmaleyka
                      Barmaleyka 23 May 2020 23: 09 New
                      0
                      now you’ll either be banned or slammed with a warning, they slapped me for such a comparison with banderlogs
                      1. Alf
                        Alf 23 May 2020 23: 16 New
                        0
                        "Do what must, what is destined to happen."
                      2. Barmaleyka
                        Barmaleyka 24 May 2020 08: 06 New
                        0
                        Quote: Alf
                        what will happen

                        slammed a warning?
  • 27091965
    27091965 22 May 2020 08: 19 New
    -1
    Surprised because nothing of the kind. Well, like, the vile Japanese gave us Pearl Harbor, and then everything was not very good, but we won and the Japanese got better and became good.


    Actually, this happens in the USA on December 7 and therefore it is not very noticeable for us. Below is an excerpt from one such ruling:

    " While on the morning of December 7, 1941, the Imperial Japanese Navy and Air Force launched an unprovoked surprise attack on United States Forces units stationed at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii ........... .. while President Franklin Delano Roosevelt called the date of the attack “a date that will live in shame.” Whereas the attack on Pearl Harbor marked the country's entry into World War II, the people of the United States have a huge debt to all of our armed forces forces that served at Pearl Harbor, the Pacific Theater of World War II, and all other theaters of operations of this war ......... call on the people of the United States to participate in these activities ...... promise eternal vigilance and a firm determination to defend the nation and its allies against all future aggression .........."

    Each country determines victory or defeat based on its views.
  • knn54
    knn54 22 May 2020 08: 36 New
    +3
    Novel, plus.
    So it was written in Soviet literature, and textbooks of (real) history.
    Including the requests of the allies FASTER to start a war with Japan.
    It is a pity that there is no photo of Nagasaki, which is MUCH smaller (at that time a modern port with stone buildings) that suffered from a bomb explosion of greater power than Hiroshima and other cities with their wooden houses.
    ALL history proves that the Anglo-Saxons can not be allies. MAXIMUM-temporary fellow travelers with selfish goals. The main thing is not to turn your back on them.
    The ability to kill with sophistication is not a military valor, And there is one more "skill" - to fight with someone else's hands, claiming victory for yourself.
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 22 May 2020 13: 35 New
      0
      Nagasaki was located was more advantageous in terms of survival. There was an agreement with the allies, the USSR enters the war with Japan 3 months after the victory in Europe. That is why the 9th of August. not the 10th or 1st of September.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Undecim
    Undecim 22 May 2020 09: 44 New
    +6
    The article seems to be about history, but there is no history in the article. There are the author’s fantasies on the subject of history, accompanied by on-demand campaigns that someone wants to rewrite it.
    Moreover, the author misleads the reader on all the issues raised in the article, "forgetting" about the Yalta conference, where all territorial issues of the allies in Japan were discussed, and the Poddam conference, where the allies formulated the terms of surrender, and that they agreed to accept these conditions Japan, represented by the emperor, is already on August 10.
    And the author has no idea what is considered the reason for Japan's surrender in the United States, nor how they evaluate the role of the USSR.

    1. Undecim
      Undecim 22 May 2020 11: 38 New
      +2
      I saw that local "offended" hamsters were slowly passing by. That is, the article has found "its" reader.
  • Operator
    Operator 22 May 2020 10: 22 New
    0
    For the first time in a long time, the author’s article was plus - in 1945, the destruction of their cities was absolutely violet by carpet bombing and nuclear.

    The production of small arms, ammunition and explosives in Japan was moved underground, the human mob reserve was dispersed in the countryside, the fanaticism of the emperor’s subjects was sufficient to arrange for the Americans three orders of magnitude greater Iwo Jima in the Japanese islands.

    It was the entry of the USSR into the war that launched the protocol of surrender, adopted by the Japanese military-political leadership a few months before. The routine bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki (listed in the seventh dozen city demolitions), the U.S. confidential offer to maintain emperor status and the leak of information about the absence of the Soviet occupation zone in the Japanese islands served him as an excellent excuse to lie under the Americans.

    Another thing is that now Japan is most afraid of the Chinese, who in 1945 could not get the most out of the Japanese because of deterrence by the United States and the outbreak of civil war in China bully
  • Octopus
    Octopus 22 May 2020 11: 07 New
    +3
    The author in his repertoire.
    Not so long ago, Trump, and behind him all the US media began to yell together on the topic of how America and Britain won the war with Germany.

    Trump wrote one tweet. Naturally, a trump tweet is enough for professional offenders for half a year of drilling.
    Surprised because nothing of the kind. Well, like, the vile Japanese gave us Pearl Harbor, and then everything was not very good, but we won and the Japanese got better and became good.

    It just so happened that Hitler, by the efforts of various forces, from the left to the Jews, became a symbol of evil (and by his own efforts, no doubt). Victory over Hitler - victory over evil. The Japanese do not cause such interest, they won and won a hundred years ago. With the Japanese, only the Chinese win in the newspapers, they have their own scores.
    And yes, about atomic bombs - with aspiration and tears in his eyes

    Lies.
    The question of the appropriateness of ChiN has already been raised under Truman and is constantly being raised. Including questions personally to Tibbets, for example.
    Is it true that the Japanese emperor was so afraid of atomic bombs that he decided to surrender? Or was there something else?

    Something else.

    Of course it’s different.

    Hirohito has never been a pointerant like Hitler. Already in April 45, he made the head of the Cabinet supporter of the surrender of Suzuki. The first national traitor Yonai, as a confidant of Hirohito, is breaking up one patriotic government after another in the 44th year in high posts.
    and the emperor and the "Big Six" (the most influential ministers) what? But nothing. We consulted and thought right up to August 14th.

    Lies.
    Already on the 10th, consent to surrender was transferred through the Swedish embassy, ​​with the reservation for Hirohito. For another 4 days, the Americans crushed for a complete and unconditional and finished off, although in fact Hirohito remained.
    And even that, the votes were divided three against three and the decisive was the voice of the emperor Hirohito himself.

    Still not divided. Of those who were against, one committed suicide, one received a life sentence at the tribunal.
    A drop overflowing the cup? No. It was not like that at all.


    Of course. The bowl was full for a long time. But the events of August allowed Hirohito to regain control.
    Sidehara was a very moderate politician ...

    Shizahara was the premier under the Americans. The phrase is cited by sources like the colonelasade according to a book by a professional American pacifist leftist.
    The Americans categorically did not want to climb the Islands ..... Given how many of them, the US Army and Navy took this position, trying to inflict maximum damage on the bombing.

    Lies.
    Just the army, led by the poacher of the American people, MacArthur, and stood for the landing (fleet - for the blockade). The position of the army took Truman.
    The United States and Great Britain demanded "unconditional surrender." The Soviet Union was still neutral and demanded nothing.

    Lies. The Potsdam Declaration was also signed by the USSR.
    The diplomatic is to plow as an intermediary ... the Soviet Union!

    Yes, it was. It was a big mistake.
    As an option - return lost during the Russo-Japanese War Port Arthur and Dalniy, for example.

    The idea of ​​bargaining the Chinese cities with the Americans is quite in the spirit of Stalin, but not quite in the spirit of the Americans.
    There were others, from the military under the leadership of Army Minister Anami Koretika

    Yes Yes. A great example of how opposing the interests of the people and their government can be.
    in fact, the US Army command was frightened by the huge losses that could have occurred during the invasion of the Japanese islands.

    Lies. MacArthur specialized in meaningless bloodbaths; an invasion of Japan would be the crown of his activity in this regard.
    The worst thing is that there was nothing to hold back the skating rink, which began to gain momentum, moving towards the borders of Japan! Yes, there was a Kwantung army,

    The Kwantung army and its problems were of interest to zero people outside of China in August 45th.
    And there already Hokkaido and Honshu give up pure oars ...

    Russian folk geography.
    And 43 landing ships from the Americans (glory to Lend-Lease!) Could catch the nostalgia for all the northern territories.

    Strategic landing operation on 43 boats.
    And (according to plans) in 10 days already be directly on Japanese territory.

    The USSR had many strange plans, but not to such an extent. Unless, of course, South Sakhalin is meant
    1. Octopus
      Octopus 22 May 2020 11: 16 New
      +2
      the introduction of the communist regime there is really a nightmare for the Japanese emperor.

      For Japan. Hirohito didn't care as much as his generals.
      And following the example of many Germans (and not only Germans), the emperor made the most advantageous decision. That is, he rushed to the feet of good Americans. Yes, yes, thereby destroying 68 cities with a population and infecting Japan with radiation for a long time.

      Allies. Still allies.
      An interesting twist, isn't it?

      Two bombs killed three rabbits.

      Yes, it succeeded. Mentioned yonai called bombs a gift from heaven.
      mutually beneficial deal. The emperor remained on the throne, the specter of communism went north,

      Unfortunately no. All these advantages were not originally conceived, but were realized later, in the 40s, when American policy became more sane.
      Today, when we calmly look at what ended 75 years ago,

      Who is this calmly looking at WWII, Russian propaganda?
      I'm sorry that in America they try to forget it. But nothing, we recall.

      Damn big mistake to remind the Americans about it. While they lie to themselves that they have won, they are much safer.
    2. Octopus
      Octopus 22 May 2020 12: 23 New
      +3
      Quote: Octopus
      Lies. The Potsdam Declaration was also signed by the USSR.

      To blame.

      I apologize to the author. In this part he slandered.

      The USSR did not sign the July 26 declaration.
      We, the President of the United States, the President of the National Government of the Republic of China and the Prime Minister of Great Britain, representing hundreds of millions of our compatriots, have consulted and agreed that Japan should be given the opportunity to end this war.


      The USSR joined it 2 weeks later, on August 8

      True to its allied duty, the Soviet Government accepted the proposal of the Allies and acceded to the Declaration of the Allied Powers of July 26 this year.
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 22 May 2020 14: 32 New
        +1
        Quote: Octopus
        The USSR did not sign the July 26 declaration.

        Yeah ... and the Japanese Foreign Ministry once again saw in this an opportunity to sign the USSR as a mediator in the negotiations.
        The position of Japan. Studying the text of the declaration, the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Togo drew attention to two important points. Firstly, despite the fact that the head of the government of the USSR was undoubtedly consulted in Potsdam regarding this declaration, it does not mention his name, so it can be assumed that the Soviet Union legally remains neutral with respect to Japan.

        Stubborn people served in the Japanese Foreign Ministry ... if not stubborn. Well, even on July 30, 1945 they poked the Union with a wand: Well, why are you silent, USSR, well, let's negotiate through you with the Allies. The answer came a week later. smile
        1. Octopus
          Octopus 22 May 2020 14: 47 New
          +3
          Quote: Alexey RA
          if not to say - stubborn.

          The situation in Japan 45 illustrates well the effect when a politician "marries" his idea and cannot stop when it is high time. This applies not only to the military with their war to an invincible end, but also to the Foreign Ministry.

          Japan, unlike Germany, was very lucky that Hirohito maintained contact with reality, although it would seem that head of the government responsible (before parliament), and this is the embodiment of the Japanese god on earth.
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 22 May 2020 15: 29 New
            +2
            Quote: Octopus
            Japan, unlike Germany, was very lucky that Hirohito maintained contact with reality, although it would seem that head of the government responsible (before parliament), and this is the embodiment of the Japanese god on earth.

            Wonderland: earnestly believing in their propaganda of politics and a realist in the person of a living embodiment of God. smile
            1. Octopus
              Octopus 22 May 2020 15: 31 New
              +3
              )))
              Yes, it was ironic.

              Not sure about propaganda. The Japanese had amazing cockroaches in their heads. There really were too many people for whom life was not the main thing. What is yours, what is a stranger.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • iouris
    iouris 22 May 2020 11: 57 New
    +1
    "Mutually beneficial surrender" and "... do not boast so much ..."
    This is how one should not feel the Russian language in order to write like that.
    The word "Why" in the title with a capital letter why ?? The most interesting thing is that any text editor will highlight this error.
  • Bersaglieri
    Bersaglieri 22 May 2020 12: 04 New
    -1
    That's right, yes. The "Hokkaid SSR" did not take place.
  • Fat
    Fat 22 May 2020 12: 27 New
    +1
    The article is wonderful. But...
    Far-fetched facts spoil the picture.
    These people would never give up. The philosophy of "broken crystal" has been implanted for hundreds of years. Hirohito forced the generals to obey. This is his role both at the beginning of the war and at its end. RS made an unimportant message at once, not realizing that the most nationalists of the Nazis are the Japanese. Either you are Japanese or "gaijin". There was no other gradation, and there is not even now. Centuries of isolation never pass by. I will not develop the topic. Here you need to figure out Who and How broke the age-old traditions. Bombs or the collapse of the last colonies ... Or the order of a far-sighted emperor ...
    1. Alf
      Alf 22 May 2020 19: 19 New
      +1
      Quote: Thick
      These people would never give up.

      If "home self-defense squads" were being formed, which included most of the CIVILS of Japan, armed with sticks and halberds (I don't remember how it was in Japanese) and the nation was ready to die for the empire and the Divine ... It was not for nothing that the US Chiefs of Staff had planned the invasion of Japan directly in 46, and according to their estimates it was believed that TWO million solders would remain there below ground level ...
      1. Fat
        Fat 23 May 2020 00: 37 New
        0
        Hmm ... I don’t know what I said in the messages of the Mikado. God said Life! better than shame. So they are now me! I live_work. Ask me .... Surname is not even Polish, Christmas ... Governor .... Mlyam, immediately sink?
        1. Alf
          Alf 23 May 2020 21: 27 New
          0
          Quote: Thick
          Hmm ... I don’t know what I said in the messages of the Mikado. God said Life! better than shame. So they are now me! I live_work. Ask me .... Surname is not even Polish, Christmas ... Governor .... Mlyam, immediately sink?

          Dear colleague, is everything normal with you? All your posts resemble a set of words, as they say, what I see, then I sing.
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 25 May 2020 10: 06 New
        0
        Quote: Alf
        It was not in vain that the committee of chiefs of staff of the United States planned an invasion of Japan directly in the 46th, and according to their estimates it was believed that TWO million of Solgers would remain there below ground level ...

        These are Washington estimates - for knocking out money from politicians for military needs. It is better to look at the real figures of the estimated losses according to the calculations of the headquarters. OKNSH estimated losses for the 90-day "Olympic" and "Coronet" at 1,2 million total, including 270 thousand non-refundable.
  • ser56
    ser56 22 May 2020 13: 13 New
    +1
    so, for the author - the Japanese sank 8 Soviet ships and detained 178 ...
    http://www.observer.materik.ru/observer/N6_2010/050_057.pdf
    1. Alf
      Alf 22 May 2020 19: 20 New
      +1
      Quote: ser56
      so, for the author - the Japanese sank 8 Soviet ships and detained 178 ...
      http://www.observer.materik.ru/observer/N6_2010/050_057.pdf

      When nominated for Pearl Harbor, Nagumo was asked what to do if a Soviet or other neutral vessel comes across. The admiral replied-sink and forget.
      1. ser56
        ser56 22 May 2020 19: 25 New
        +1
        Quote: Alf
        The admiral replied-sink and forget.

        criminal order, more than enough to disable the transmitter request
        1. Alf
          Alf 22 May 2020 19: 48 New
          +1
          Quote: ser56
          Quote: Alf
          The admiral replied-sink and forget.

          criminal order, more than enough to disable the transmitter request

          Why bother? It’s easier to sink, and faster, it planted two or three torpedoes and that’s it.
          1. ser56
            ser56 22 May 2020 19: 51 New
            0
            Quote: Alf
            It’s easier to sink, and faster, it planted two or three torpedoes and that’s it.

            can have time to send a radio .... hi
            1. Alf
              Alf 22 May 2020 19: 54 New
              0
              Quote: ser56
              Quote: Alf
              It’s easier to sink, and faster, it planted two or three torpedoes and that’s it.

              can have time to send a radio .... hi

              Yeah, but for now they stop, until the boat reaches, while they get on board and get to the radio room less time will pass?
              I do not want to argue on this subject, the Japanese they are the Japanese.
        2. Fat
          Fat 23 May 2020 00: 57 New
          -1
          what is the overwriter? Who? only the USA had a normal warning system ... They saw the entire Pacific Ocean, only they were afraid of each other to such an extent that the War "" "..... No. No. No." "" Morons! ...
          They Same Read All Dipcodes since 1938, and Naval since 1940 ...
          And only they understood to Midway .... What, damn it, everything is clear! This is a WAR of the Sea Mess and .... then they paid .... Oh, I do not even want to think ....
  • EvilLion
    EvilLion 22 May 2020 13: 33 New
    0
    And then scared? Japanese industry and energy supplies were all. The war is lost, the question was whether there would be an American landing and fighting in densely populated areas, which is expensive, or there will be some kind of intermediary assistance from the USSR that you can pay for, especially since the USSR will not take much in any case. But where does a certain Soviet victory come from? The Japanese fled to surrender, not because the Russians defeated them, but because they had come to a fight. The Red Army would go along Manchuria for a week, or for six months it would not matter.
    1. Fat
      Fat 23 May 2020 01: 10 New
      0
      The Red Army would go along Manchuria for a week, or for six months it would not matter.

      Had! You, comrade, by squeezing and grabbing by nickname t-sht grated ... .... Oh, give me the resources ... almost native ... so close .... Well Yes, Japas in Manchuria wandered by charity, innocent and nifiga not strategic ....
  • ZaDedov
    ZaDedov 22 May 2020 13: 34 New
    0
    If history had made a slightly different turn, then purely theoretically we would have observed VICTORY among the Americans.
    And so .. they have quiet and smooth ..
  • pmkemcity
    pmkemcity 22 May 2020 13: 58 New
    0
    Stalin's mistake was that they did not create the "Soviet Socialist Republic of Manchukuo." With Mao, southern China would be enough.
  • A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 22 May 2020 16: 02 New
    -1
    "Why is the USA not so proud of the victory over Japan" ...
    Strange title.
    Not this way, like who?
    Someone, then, is proud, and someone is not. Or, he boasts, but "It will not be enough" (s)?

    So, about Japan. She waged a war from 1941 to 1945, and local wars since 1931.
    The hostilities took place in China, the Korean Peninsula, French Indochina, Thailand, Burma, Malaya, the Dutch East Indies, Papua New Guinea, the Philippines, the Solomon Islands, the Marshall Islands, the Mariana Islands, many Pacific islands, in the Pacific and Indian Oceans. .

    The Anti-Hitler coalition fought against it:
    USA
    United Kingdom,
    Canada,
    Australia,
    New Zealand,
    China,
    France,
    Netherlands,
    Thailand, etc.

    Japan lost in these clashes, including the nuclear and atomic bombing of 2 soldiers and about 000 civilians.
    .
    The USSR, which entered the war against the defeated and bombed Japan on August 9, 1945 (two days after the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and on the eve of the atomic strike on Nagasaki), defeated it and seized it in the form of a military one on September 2, 1945, in some three weeks. trophy of the South Kuril Islands, forced to sign an act of surrender.
    Point.
    1. Octopus
      Octopus 22 May 2020 16: 35 New
      +4
      Quote: A. Privalov
      The USSR, which entered the war against the defeated and bombed Japan on August 9, 1945 (two days after the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and on the eve of the atomic strike on Nagasaki), defeated it and seized it in the form of a military one on September 2, 1945, in some three weeks. trophy of the South Kuril Islands, forced to sign an act of surrender.
      Point.

      Something you bent even more famously than the author.
      Quote: A. Privalov
      on the eve of the atomic strike on Nagasaki

      August 9th was bombed.
      Quote: A. Privalov
      by September 2, 1945, for some three weeks

      The emperor’s order was published on August 14. What the USSR did from August 14 to September 2 is a separate difficult conversation. I did not sit idly by, far from it.
      Quote: A. Privalov
      Southern Kuril Trophy

      And South Sakhalin. Although, in fact, the USSR prize in that war was not these grains of sand, but one of the signatories of the Potsdam Declaration and the founders of the UN. Namely China.
      For these weeks comrade Stalin achieved more than 4 years of World War II.
      1. A. Privalov
        A. Privalov 22 May 2020 17: 10 New
        0
        Hiroshima was bombed on August 6, 1945. Nagasaki - August 9 at 11:02.
        The troops of the Trans-Baikal Front launched an offensive at 00:10 on August 9, and at 1 am - the troops of the 2st and 18nd Far Eastern fronts. The offensive began Khabarovsk time, while Moscow time it took place at 00:8 on August XNUMX. This is called "the day before".
        Everything else is about grains of sand and folded hands, nothing more than your thoughts. hi
        1. Octopus
          Octopus 22 May 2020 17: 32 New
          0
          Quote: A. Privalov
          The troops of the Transbaikal Front launched an offensive at 00:10 minutes on August 9, and at one in the morning - the troops of the 1st and 2nd Far Eastern fronts. The offensive began in Khabarovsk time, while in Moscow time it occurred at 18:00 on August 8.

          Trick. OK, accepted.
          Quote: A. Privalov
          Everything else is about grains of sand

          Not quite. If you adhere to the facts, then the USSR occupied the Yukurils, and not a trophy, as you put it. This is not the same thing.
          Quote: A. Privalov
          and folded hands

          Seriously? On August 14, the Red Army stood up where was it?
          1. A. Privalov
            A. Privalov 22 May 2020 18: 13 New
            0
            Quote: Octopus
            Seriously? On August 14, the Red Army stood up where was it?

            I don’t have the exact chronology of those events at hand. I remember that on August 14, Japan surrendered. The Emperor ordered. A few days later, the Kwantung Army also surrendered. There was nothing more to do on the islands. By the way, the Japanese are asking where nearly 40 thousand local people have gone. Prisoners of war until 48 were held, then sent back.
            1. Octopus
              Octopus 22 May 2020 18: 31 New
              +1
              Quote: A. Privalov
              I don’t have the exact chronology of those events at hand.

              On August 14, the Red Army only crossed Big Khingan. The defeat of the Kwantung Army occurred after the surrender of Japan.
              Quote: A. Privalov
              There was nothing more to do on the islands.

              However, the Soviet side trophy these islands are August 18th. Again in peacetime, but again with significant casualties.
              Quote: A. Privalov
              Prisoners of war until 48 were held, then sent back.

              Schaz, back. Repatriation completed in the 56th year.
              The last large group of prisoners was repatriated by decree of the Council of Ministers of the USSR of June 10, 1949 No. 2326-905s. According to the order of the Minister of the Interior of June 15, 1949 No. 00585, 91 Japanese were subject to repatriation, of which 449 were in the camps of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and 74 in the working battalions of the Ministry of Internal Affairs. 019 civilians were also sent home.


              Further there were small groups.

              For example.
              By a decree of the Council of Ministers of March 17, 1950 No. 1109-397ss and an order of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the USSR of March 22, 1950 No. 00202, it was ordered to release 1950 Japanese prisoners of war and internees in March-April 3109. These included 80 generals

              After the entry into force of the Joint Declaration of the USSR and Japan of October 19, 1956, on December 13, a decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR on amnesty for Japanese citizens convicted in the Soviet Union was issued. According to this decree, on December 23, the last group of Japanese prisoners was sent home - 1025 people

              Separately, of course, one should evaluate the presence of 49 in the USSR in the year 2475 prisoners of war civilians..
      2. Fat
        Fat 23 May 2020 01: 29 New
        -2
        Quote: Octopus
        Quote: A. Privalov
        The Soviet Union, which entered the war against defeated and bombed Japan on August 9, 1945 (two days after the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and on the eve of the atomic strike on Nagasaki), by September 2, 1945, defeated it in three weeks and grabbed it as a war trophy South Kuril Islands, forced to sign an act of surrender.
        Point.

        Something you bent even more famously than the author.
        Quote: A. Privalov
        on the eve of the atomic strike on Nagasaki

        August 9th was bombed.
        Quote: A. Privalov
        by September 2, 1945, for some three weeks

        The emperor’s order was published on August 14. What the USSR did from August 14 to September 2 is a separate difficult conversation. I did not sit idly by, far from it.
        Quote: A. Privalov
        Southern Kuril Trophy

        And South Sakhalin. Although, in fact, the USSR prize in that war was not these grains of sand, but one of the signatories of the Potsdam Declaration and the founders of the UN. Namely China.
        For these weeks comrade Stalin achieved more than 4 years of World War II.

        You, Octopus, what do you think, a couple of comrades, your cry about the eve of the atomic bombardment was not removed, where did the mushrooms come from?
        Omdya .... You will reach ... Our country was bombarded by a couple of fasteners ...
        1. Octopus
          Octopus 23 May 2020 09: 03 New
          +4
          Andrei Borisovich, it’s completely in vain that you access the Internet with as many ppm as this night.
  • Pug
    Pug 22 May 2020 17: 20 New
    0
    The author of Roma and that says it all .. The next Shkalovsky (caliber) will be
    Such they are strange)))) Interrupt each other .. laughing
    1. Alf
      Alf 22 May 2020 19: 22 New
      +1
      Quote: Pug
      They are so strange

      You write, we will see how your creations will react.
      1. Fat
        Fat 23 May 2020 01: 41 New
        +1
        nafig! We grin ... And so we have people who will tear others
  • Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 22 May 2020 17: 24 New
    +1
    Not particularly sorry for Japan of that period. Developed bacteriological weapons and tested them on thousands of people. Thousands of people were driven into slavery (including "comfort stations"), many of whom died or went insane. Whole cities in China were cut out and filled with blood, heads were chopped off, shot, gassed and starved. "Lovely kind Japanese" riveted balloons with incendiary bombs around the courtyards, which they sent down the wind, maybe they would kill someone in the USA. Or, for example, they collected scrap metal for shells and bombs, or they volunteered in kamikaze.
    It is good to remember heroism and self-sacrifice, when you blew the battle on a foreign land, flooding everything there with grief and blood! 37 million Chinese died thanks to these "poor things", and this is so, for a minute, more losses of the USSR in the Second World War.
    So you got yours, and you don’t need to think about humanism.
    As for our role in Japan's surrender, we should not overestimate it. Japan's aviation and navy were knocked out - and it was not us who knocked it out. By that time, the Kwantung Army had been stripped to the bone - this is clearly seen by the way the Japanese "met" our aviation and tanks - mines on bamboo sticks and suicide bombers tied with dynamite are just that.
    1. Alf
      Alf 22 May 2020 19: 24 New
      +1
      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
      Not particularly sorry for Japan of that period. Developed bacteriological weapons and tested them on thousands of people. Thousands of people were driven into slavery (including "comfort stations"), many of whom died or went insane. Whole cities in China were cut out and filled with blood, heads were chopped off, shot, gassed and starved. "Lovely kind Japanese" riveted balloons with incendiary bombs around the courtyards, which they sent down the wind, maybe they would kill someone in the USA. Or, for example, they collected scrap metal for shells and bombs, or they volunteered in kamikaze.
      It is good to remember heroism and self-sacrifice, when you blew the battle on a foreign land, flooding everything there with grief and blood! 37 million Chinese died thanks to these "poor things", and this is so, for a minute, more losses of the USSR in the Second World War.
      So you got yours, and you don’t need to think about humanism.

      I agree.
      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
      As for our role in the surrender of Japan - do not overestimate it.

      Absolutely not. Above, I wrote about the estimated timing of the invasion of nuclear weapons built by the US forces.
      1. Knell wardenheart
        Knell wardenheart 22 May 2020 19: 53 New
        0
        You see, the terms are good when it comes to the continent, a sort of Atlantic shaft, beyond the barrier of which the gloomy Teutonic genius forges weapons of retaliation, Romanian oil boils, the Norwegian rare earth pleases the eye, etc. Japan, on the other hand, is an island (s) that is damn poor in resources (and especially energy resources), which technologically and territorially did not allow in any way to be turned out by many, which still rolled in Germany (such as synthetic fuel or rubber), which had a lot of developments since BB1. The Japanese had already gone through the stage when they tried to build fighters from g ** on wood chips and, at least, man-bombs - during this stage (I must say unsuccessful), the Japanese population could bravely wait for Uncle Sam to visit — uncle Sam just could force them to the world by hunger or hammering their industry into the ground - calmly and methodically. The Japanese fleet ordered a long life, and the one that was still afloat lost fuel. Kutsya aviation lost the lion's share of skill pilots, there were no spare parts, fuel - what the metropolitan air defense forces tore off with their hands.
        By that time, Japan could no longer feed its population normally - even for pathetic attempts, it needed chemistry and, at the very least, adequate operation of transport hubs. Both were very tight under Uncle Sam’s aviation cap. And Hirohito's subordinates, and I must say, did not fatten before.
        So - my personal opinion - the samurai spirit is good with a full gut. And when cats and dogs have long been in the broth and you are waiting for American tanks with a bamboo pike - different things come to mind, here you will forget the emperor and the mother with the folder .. IMHO.
      2. Knell wardenheart
        Knell wardenheart 22 May 2020 19: 56 New
        0
        I recommend remembering the story with the German "Werewolf" - there were also a lot of harakhoris, and we were waiting for something serious, but it came out pppppshshshh ... bunch! The Japanese, in the best traditions of Asia, so as not to lose their face in the mud, gave birth to and sucked this legend about the heroic spirit and unruly unbrokenness - so that their own would not let their guts go over panic. To sell this story to posterity later. And so on ... in reality, everything would not be very funny and not long.
        1. Alf
          Alf 22 May 2020 20: 18 New
          +2
          Quote: Knell Wardenheart
          in reality, everything would not be very funny and not for long.

          Maybe you are right. But if you recall how long and with what losses the Americans took ordinary islands, then the calculation for 2 million coffins does not look so fantastic.
          1. Octopus
            Octopus 22 May 2020 22: 37 New
            +2
            Quote: Alf
            how long and with what losses the Americans took ordinary islands,

            How did the Americans take ordinary islands You do not know. They just came and unloaded, they didn’t get into the news. Like on the same Guadalcanal. Where, following the results of the land operation, they exchanged with the Japanese 1: 4 in their favor.
            You know how they took prepared islands for the defense with decisive garrisons. Tarava, Evozdima, Okinawa.

            In all these cases, the score for the dead was in favor of the Americans from 4 to 10 times.
            Quote: Alf
            then the calculation for 2 million coffins does not look so fantastic.

            People who believe that Japan, with a frankly second-rate army led by capitulators, could inflict on Americans much stronger than in the 44th, losses would be an order of magnitude greater than they lost in Europe 44-45 against neither much little Wehrmacht led by a fanatic.
    2. ser56
      ser56 22 May 2020 19: 31 New
      0
      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
      Japan is not particularly sorry for that period.

      Yes, do not mind for her execution of residents in Primorye request
      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
      balloons with incendiary bombs riveted around the yards, which were sent downwind, maybe someone would be killed in the United States.

      is this different from carpet bombing? request

      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
      Or for example, they collected scrap metal for shells and bombs,

      both here and in Germany it was, in England - a total war ... request
      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
      So you got yours, and you don’t need to think about humanism.

      you are not accurate - humanism is that the Japanese received partial retribution for their sins .... request
      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
      As for our role in the surrender of Japan - do not overestimate it

      do not underestimate - we have done our part, with Germany more, less with Japan - the coalition war request
      1. Knell wardenheart
        Knell wardenheart 22 May 2020 20: 08 New
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        So I do not underestimate .. What Japan fought and conquered was already floating at the bottom of the ocean with SpongeBob in an embrace. What Japan was riveting all of this on was riveted (not by us), from which it was riveted - cut off from supplies (not by us for the most part, excluding Korea, of course). The places from where we smoked them are of course beautiful on the map and on a large scale - but (excluding Korea again) strategically these were insignificant places in terms of the scale of industrial infrastructure or the importance of providing resources to the metropolis. It is also incorrect to compare the amount of "ground manpower" - as it is correct in relation to Germany. The Japanese soldier in 1945 is a rather pitiful sight - both in terms of equipment and training - I'm now specifically talking about the "Kwantung Army", which, of course, should not be compared with the garrisons of separate strategically important islands.

        So the importance of our participation in this matter is, in my opinion, about the same as in the importance of the allied capture of Italy at one time.
        1. ser56
          ser56 22 May 2020 23: 58 New
          0
          Quote: Knell Wardenheart
          strategically, these were insignificant places in terms of the scale of industrial infrastructure or the importance of providing metropolitan resources

          You are mistaken, this is a springboard against the USSR, then I don’t see the point of discussing - you have 2nd standards ... hi
        2. Octopus
          Octopus 23 May 2020 00: 28 New
          +2
          Quote: Knell Wardenheart
          So the importance of our participation in this matter is, in my opinion, about the same as in the importance of the allied capture of Italy at one time.

          Unfortunately, you have a very poor understanding of the situation in the Mediterranean theater. This capture of Italy is not particularly interesting for the USSR, but for Britain (and Germany) it was important, and very.
        3. gsev
          gsev 8 August 2020 23: 27 New
          0
          Quote: Knell Wardenheart
          A Japanese soldier in 1945 is a rather pitiful sight, both in terms of equipment and training.

          In the South Kuriles, the Japanese quite successfully fought off the Red Army on September 1, 1945, which made the landing on Hokaido impossible. The presence of Japanese military advisers at Ho Chi Minh and Sukarno helped these countries win victories in difficult wars of independence.
          1. Knell wardenheart
            Knell wardenheart 9 August 2020 01: 03 New
            0
            Island garrisons are another story. When a position is concreted, deepened and camouflaged for years on some piece of land, every meter is shot there - you need to be Italian to make it all out. And unlike the Kwantung Army, the Japanese did not economize so much on the island garrisons, and their equipment looked much less archaic given the landing specificity of such operations. The Kwantung army was very poorly prepared to fight tanks, the infantry was not corny in vest. at least trained in the fight against them and in general modern methods of mobile land warfare. The PTO was weak and archaic, Japanese tanks were a rather pitiful and rare sight, technologically dangling somewhere at the level of German tanks of the beginning of BB2 at the best. The equipping of the Japanese army with automatic weapons was at a rather weak level (I'm still talking about Kwantung) - and in strategic terms, the Japanese view of its use did not go far from the specifics of the actions of large island garrisons, which is absolutely inapplicable on the continent and against those who have just "arrived" from Europe enemy.
            By the standards of Asia (especially) and the pre-war / pre-war period, the Kwantung Army was a significant and effective force, but the 4 years of modern land war of which the Japanese actually did not do their job - while they burned villages there with partisans, we fought with the best army in Europe and eventually became her.

            As for the Japanese team, I think there were very different people there. While above them there was a clear mossy vertical with dubious personalities at the top and squabbling of the fleet-army for resources - many bright heads were shackled in their actions, although someone even then showed himself. However, the Japanese mentality of that period was very badly combined with what we call "work on mistakes" - it was easier for them to gossip in a pompous way than to "lose face".

            If Japanese analytics had worked better, everything could have been different, but in fact they were crushing fleas there for 4 years, absolutely not preparing for the obvious development of events, either diplomatically, industrially or militarily. Thus, I think that fanning the myth about the strength of the Kwantung Army is a political technique of the USSR, which was necessary in due time to approve the original plan for the partition of Japan into zones of allied occupation. This issue did not pass, but the myth remained.
  • Revolver
    Revolver 23 May 2020 09: 46 New
    +1
    Yes, some people should remember that it was the lightning-fast defeat of Japanese forces on the mainland that became one of the main reasons that prompted Japan to surrender. And another equally important reason was the defeat of Germany, which was mainly the merit of the USSR, and the allies, let’s say, of the type, also participated to some extent. But there are also facts that should be remembered. For example, Roosevelt imposed an embargo on oil supplies to Japan. It was this that prompted Japan to strike at Pearl Harbor, and it was this that secured the eastern borders of the USSR. And before that, Japan actually considered the option of hitting the USSR. And if Japan had struck this blow at the end of 1941, it is still unknown how the battle of Moscow would end without fresh, full-blooded, fully-equipped divisions deployed from Siberia and the Far East. But the Japanese, in contrast to Hitler, who had been completely overthrown by that time, understood that they could not pull the war on two fronts. So someone may want to share the victory, but the historical truth cannot be changed: there was one victory for everyone.
  • Vladimir SHajkin
    Vladimir SHajkin 23 May 2020 17: 37 New
    0
    Great story backed up by photographs.
  • Simargl
    Simargl 23 May 2020 20: 27 New
    0
    But nothing, we recall.

    For 74 years it was necessary to celebrate not only the victory in the Great Patriotic War, but also in the Second World War.
    1. gsev
      gsev 8 August 2020 22: 32 New
      0
      Quote: Simargl
      74 years it was necessary to celebrate not only the victory in the Great Patriotic War

      For a long time, Japan was considered a peace-loving country, why was it necessary to annoy the Japanese once again?
      1. Simargl
        Simargl 8 August 2020 22: 35 New
        0
        Quote: gsev
        For a long time, Japan was considered a peace-loving country
        Peaceful? After the massacre in China?
        Maybe hollowed out?
        Germany in general was half an ally and controlled, which did not prevent the celebration of Victory Day in the Great Patriotic War.
        1. gsev
          gsev 8 August 2020 23: 35 New
          0
          Quote: Simargl
          Maybe hollowed out?

          The Japanese believe that, thanks to MacArthur's reforms, life has become much more pleasant in Japan. For a long time she did not have large defense spending. And in general, the peaceful years after 1945 were more conducive to the growth of Japan's greatness than its military adventures.
  • Grafova Irina
    Grafova Irina 24 May 2020 15: 39 New
    0
    Funny little article ...
    The author somewhat justified his surname (or "nickname"). There is another author by the name of Sick ... So he, in general, is a "master of sports in all kinds of sports" (although there is also Baduk) ...
    Ergo - Bibamus
  • zenion
    zenion 27 May 2020 12: 20 New
    0
    There is such an author Gerald Nirenburg. He wrote that the current youth hates their grandfathers' parents, saying that the wars got scared - the Russians are coming. He describes how the Japanese defense minister asked for a meeting with the emperor and told him. The army on the mainland is defeated by the Russians. In a week, another they will be in Tokyo. We urgently need to negotiate with the Americans. They were not really afraid of nuclear weapons, partly due to a misunderstanding of how, without entering the territory of the islands, Americans can defeat them. At the same time, they understood that the Red Army would enter and would not clatter. Japan can be saved, only America. Stalin counted and knew why the Japanese rushed to the Americans. Therefore, the capitulation from the USSR was signed by a major general who was urgently fastened on the shoulder straps of the general, either from the rank of lieutenant colonel, or the rank of colonel. Which was fluent in Japanese and English.
  • gsev
    gsev 8 August 2020 22: 29 New
    0
    [quote] [/ quote] Indeed, why? [quote]
    Apparently for the United States, the victory over the USSR is more significant than over its modern ally Japan.
  • gsev
    gsev 8 August 2020 23: 30 New
    0
    Quote: Knell Wardenheart
    but (again excluding Korea) strategically these were insignificant places in terms of the scale of industrial infrastructure

    Until now, Manchuria is China's military forge. The DPRK successfully uses a power plant built by the Japanese.