Military Review

How did the people's republics of Donbass "begin"

60
How did the people's republics of Donbass "begin"

They often write to me that it would be worthwhile to talk about how and why the civil war in the Donbass began. Especially since история this war even today, when many participants in the events are alive, when witnesses are alive, is already turning into a story. The Ukrainian side itself already believes that the Armed Forces of Ukraine actively fought the Russian army at the beginning of the conflict. Republicans, on the contrary, talk about the repulsed attacks of the Ukrainian army literally with a club, that the entire people of Donbass immediately rose to fight the aggressors.


In addition, there is another factor that must be taken into account. The winners write the story. This fact is not disputed. However, it is worth clarifying the concept itself Winners. It seems to me that some readers have a somewhat primitive understanding of it. 

If the war is over, everyone understands that one of the parties won. But everyone who participated in the war on their side does not write the story. They are written by those who are currently in power. It is clear that they really want to become war heroes, the generals who won. In this case, it is necessary to reduce the role of real heroes. And often, exaggerating some battles and battles while forgetting others. What we see today. What is being created in historical research is called "military mythology."

How did the people's republics of Donbass "begin"?

Why Donbass caught fire, and the rest of Ukraine is not


I must say right away that I deliberately "made a mistake" in the title of the section. And I allowed it only in order to answer a sufficiently large number of people from both Ukraine and Russia. Black and white thinking, which, due to the fact that the most active in the discussion are not very, alas, literate young people, has done its job. 

So, in Kiev, as a result of the coup, the junta actually came to power. For most Kievans, this event did not become something outstanding. The next change of power, nothing more. Kievans, and indeed Ukrainians in general, continued to live an ordinary life. We went to work, raised children, and were engaged in other important matters. Maidan ... not the first time ...

By the way, we saw a similar picture in our own country. Remember the events of 1991 and 1993 in Moscow. How many Muscovites went to the square to defend their position? And how many residents of other cities? How many cities supported one side or the other? This is the answer to those who today speak of some kind of inferiority of Ukrainians. They are the same Soviet as we were and remain.

However, there were other Ukrainians. If there are radical rightists, then there are radical leftists. In response to the emergence of the junta in several cities, the idea of ​​the Russian spring arises. Zaporozhye, Kharkov, Dnepropetrovsk, Odessa ... If the fascists established power in Kiev, then we will establish popular power!

Alas, the idea of ​​the Russian spring, today we can already talk about it, turned out to be a utopia. With the silent reaction of the majority, this idea was killed in Zaporozhye and Kharkov. Burned in Odessa. And Dnepropetrovsk was generally turned into a stronghold of the Right Sector when they moved the headquarters of the militants of this organization there.

The opportunity to go to a Ukrainian prison for separatism did not greatly inspire Ukrainians to fight. And supposedly the law enforcement system of the new state worked very actively in this direction. 2014 greatly added work to the jailers. And the disappearances of the activists of the Russian spring did not add to the desire to go out to civil protest.

Yes, on both sides, among the participants in the events was a part of those who had real combat experience in participating in military conflicts in Yugoslavia, Transnistria, Afghanistan, Abkhazia, Georgia, Chechnya. However, this was not enough to start an active struggle. If the right-wing radicals were supported by the state, they turned a blind eye to the illegally captured weapon, to training camps, to mass gatherings, the left-wing radicals could not boast of this. The state worked against them.

Why the Russian spring grew into a hot summer only in the Donbass


In principle, the same fate awaited Donbass as Kharkov or Zaporozhye. It was obvious. Therefore, the Kiev authorities did not particularly try to solve the problem of the Russian spring there. Where is the hurry? With a fairly limited number of radicals, Kiev preferred to clean up the cities in the east of the country in turn.

When pearls are grown, the first thing they do is “perform an operation” on the mollusks. Simply put, grains of sand are artificially introduced into their bodies. After that, the protective reaction of the body is turned on and after some time a person receives this grain of sand, which the mollusk covered with aragonite. This is how pearls are born. And in about the same way resistance was born in the Donbass.

Spontaneous self-defense detachments began to emerge almost immediately after the coup in Kiev. But these were just self-defense units. They defended their own homes. And their numbers were ridiculous. The departure of Crimea became a good incentive for their emergence. Bloodless, calm and fast. Some, I must say frankly not the biggest, part of the Donetsk people hoped for the same scenario in Donbass. However, it is not worth talking about sentiments similar to those in Crimea.

Remember March 2014? Kiev began to actively prepare for a war with Russia. On March 17, the first wave of mobilization began. Vile, carried out by deception and in violation of the laws of Ukraine. The future "heroes" were summoned to military training for 10 days and already in the units they announced mobilization. Naturally, according to the data voiced by Poroshenko, 30% of the soldiers and sergeants simply deserted.

The opposite side also did not sit idly by. In the East, riots began. Today, after a careful analysis of those events, I had the impression that at the first stage these performances had a completely different character. Remember those who were the very beginning? Security forces and combat detachments of anti-Maidan. The people rallied, but did not take part in power actions.

Rather, one can speak of a slightly different form of oligarchic coup than in Kiev. If we consider this point of view in development, it becomes clear the appearance of Strelkova with the detachment and his behavior after leaving Donbass. The actions of Russia at that time also become clear. More precisely, the refusal to implement the Crimean scenario, which is still reproaching us.

Is Russia standing behind the DNI and LC?


If Russia sent Strelkov’s detachment to destabilize the situation in the Donbass, then why did it stop halfway? Why didn’t she accept the Donbass in her membership in 2014? Remember April 6-7, 2014? Two republics, Kharkov and Donetsk, were proclaimed at once (Lugansk was proclaimed later). Why didn’t Russia immediately take these areas if such a goal was set?

There is one more question that speaks in favor of the version of the absence of a Russian trace in the Donbas. The republics were proclaimed on April 6-7, and Strelkov's detachment arrived in Slavyansk only on April 12. Two days after the announcement of the creation of the DPR People's Army! And the composition of the squad is interesting. Out of 52 people (six arrived later) there were only 9 Russians. The rest were citizens of Ukraine. About 30% had combat experience (according to Strelkov himself).

By the way, for some reason everyone forgot about the age of Strelkov’s “special forces”. And there are also interesting facts. The youngest fighter of the detachment Igor Strelkov was ... 16-year-old Kiev resident with the call sign "Vandal", but the most experienced was "Grandfather". The Cossack, who went through the war in Transnistria and the Caucasus, is only 74 years old.

It seems to me that the ideologists of the coup in the Donbass did not take into account the mentality of the people. The mining region, miners as workers, have a special character warehouse. The constant risk when working underground, the constant presence inside a fairly separate group of people, forms a person's special relationship with these people. As in the crew of a ship, a tank crew or in a unit of paratroopers. There is no principle of "every man for himself." Everyone lives and everyone dies in the event of an accident.

To prove my point, I will give one example from the history of further events. On April 24, near the village of Khrestischi, the Ukrainian armed forces took control of three checkpoints guarded by local militias. However, having lost 300 people, the Ukrainians retreated.

On the account of the defenders of the checkpoint there is only one wounded enemy. And two men were wounded by local men who, having seen what was going on at the checkpoint, came running with hunting rifles, went to the flank of the Ukrainian Armed Forces and shot the soldiers who hid behind the APCs.

I will repeat the thought I expressed at the beginning. Russia did not plan to take the Donbas. The reasons, I think, are clear. We were weak economically. Russia could not and cannot today “pull” together with Crimea, which required huge capital investments, which was also destroyed during the Ukrainian period. The mines and factories of Donbass require no less investment in reconstruction than the Crimea. True, if everything is measured purely economically, then Russia today would not be much larger than the territory of a dozen appanage principalities ...

History does not know the subjunctive mood


Looking at the situation from today's perspective, I come to the conclusion that some of the spilled blood lies with us. In Russia. it was we who partly allowed what is happening in Ukraine today.

2014 was a year of missed opportunities. In April-May, we could quite officially send troops to the Donbass to force peace. The current president of Ukraine Viktor Yanukovych gave us such a right in a letter. And after the events of 08.08. 2008 The West would have swallowed it without picking.

Bloodshed? There would be no bloodshed. The Ukrainian Armed Forces would gladly repeat the option of the Crimea defense. Kiev junta? I think that she would quickly retreat behind the West and organize some kind of "government in exile." People? The people were waiting for the arrival of the Russian army ...

And to join the Donbass to Russia? .. And why, if we do not pull it economically? The costs of helping the DPR and LPR today would hardly have been greater when the Donetsk people themselves would have organized production at factories, coal mining in mines ... The main thing is peace!

Today, the prospects for solving the problem of Donbass are vague. Nobody needs the Minsk agreements, which we have been talking about for so many years. What can you talk about with those who are not responsible for their words? In Donbass, another question is increasingly heard: When will we liberate our territories occupied by Ukraine? War has already become the norm.

(spelling and punctuation of the author saved - editorial note of "Military Review")
Author:
Photos used:
Wikipedia / Lionking
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  1. Civil
    Civil 20 May 2020 12: 37 New
    +6
    “If a country chooses shame between war and shame, it will receive both war and shame”
    1. Kasym
      Kasym 20 May 2020 13: 26 New
      0
      In my opinion, the problem is not in the economy - regarding the east of Ukraine - during the exercises of the Russian Federation, much larger groupings are thrown than one division. Would have joined it, then Ukraine ceased to exist, divided into several parts. And who knows where NATO troops would be? Going further east, you could get a partisan. Most likely, the Kremlin has agreed that it is not going east; but NATO members should sit "evenly" ... Everything is going towards the fact that the West itself will abandon Ukraine - 60% of Ukraine's budget is formed from their loans and borrowings. hi
      1. Insurgent
        Insurgent 20 May 2020 15: 01 New
        12
        How did the people's republics of Donbass "begin"

        They began in a friendly way; all the regions of the regions rose.

        Why Donbass caught fire, and the rest of Ukraine is not

        Because we are the most pro-Russian region, and "independent vlada" has brought Donbass to white heat.

        Why the Russian spring grew into a hot summer only in the Donbass

        Other regions of Ukraine were simply crushed, intimidated. But not us ...

        Is Russia standing behind the DNI and LC?

        Russia stands both "FOR" and next to it, as a guarantor ...

        History does not know the subjunctive mood

        Verily!

        We look back, but look, and go to the future. Is our common the future is with Russia.
        1. Siberian
          Siberian 21 May 2020 04: 53 New
          0
          Yes, that's just it, which is not friendly.
          Crimeans (A. Chaly) said that these days (the announcement of the republics and local elections of people's mayors), all the rebellious regions phoned and agreed to meet in Kharkov. Crimea has arrived, but there is no one to meet. We went home. Then it became completely clear that there is no unity, each (Crimea, at least) is for itself.
          1. Insurgent
            Insurgent 21 May 2020 07: 33 New
            +4
            Quote: Siberian
            Yes, that's just it, which is not friendly.


            You misinterpreted my comment.
            I wrote only about the DPR and LPR (former Donetsk and Lugansk regions).
  2. GRIGORIY76
    GRIGORIY76 20 May 2020 12: 39 New
    +9
    Strelkov told yesterday how it all began ...
    1. Oleg Zorin
      Oleg Zorin 20 May 2020 12: 54 New
      +5
      I watched this interview with interest last night. I looked through some moments repeatedly. Unfortunately, Gordon actually prepared it in collaboration with the Ukrainian special services. It was he who collaborated, and did not consult with lawyers. The official investigative language gives out some questions with a head. That he did this interview is correct. The fact that he collaborated with the special services is disgusting.
      1. GRIGORIY76
        GRIGORIY76 20 May 2020 13: 01 New
        +5
        It seems to me about cooperation - nonsense, Strelkov has already given hundreds of interviews, in principle, said nothing new.
        1. Oleg Zorin
          Oleg Zorin 20 May 2020 13: 07 New
          +4
          True, Strelkov said almost nothing new. But the very wording of some of Gordon’s questions led me to this conclusion. This is a specific investigative language. It seems that Gordon was instructed to ask these questions precisely in such formulations. Of course, this is just my perception.
      2. Doctor
        Doctor 20 May 2020 16: 45 New
        +4
        Unfortunately, Gordon actually prepared it in collaboration with the Ukrainian special services.

        The main thing they wanted to fish out was information on the Boeing. Girkin did not tell them anything. He emphasized several times that the militia did not knock down, and rejected communication with any special services of Russia.

        In general, I think he won, very reasonably told why Ukraine is part of Russia and unification is inevitable.
        No wonder the Ukrainians went wild.

        The interview with Poklonskaya is even cooler; she’s just a “nyasha”; Gordon has never caught her.
    2. New Year day
      New Year day 20 May 2020 13: 10 New
      +4
      Quote: GRIGORIY76
      Strelkov told yesterday how it all began ...

      Now I look, very informative! there is the answer to the question ..
      Why?
    3. Insurgent
      Insurgent 20 May 2020 15: 07 New
      +3
      Quote: GRIGORIY76
      Strelkov told yesterday how it all began ...


      And then D. HaРDon, darned when he was run over by the patriotic natsYki, "pushed" the following about the interview wassat laughing :

      1. Insurgent
        Insurgent 20 May 2020 15: 13 New
        +6
        Quote: Insurgent
        And then D. Gardon, darned, when he was run over by the national patriots, "pushed" the following about the interview

        And comments about this A. Sharia:



      2. Oleg Zorin
        Oleg Zorin 20 May 2020 15: 16 New
        0
        Gordon has his last name. Why clown?
        1. Insurgent
          Insurgent 20 May 2020 15: 18 New
          +5
          Quote: Oleg Zorin
          Gordon has his last name. Why clown?

          I would answer in detail and expand on it, but it is NOT PRINTED.
          1. Oleg Zorin
            Oleg Zorin 20 May 2020 16: 01 New
            +4
            He is an enemy. Smart, cunning enemy. During the Second World War, propaganda depicted the Nazis grotesquely and derogatoryly. And rightly so - a soldier should not be afraid of the enemy. But no one was engaged in propaganda at the GKO headquarters. The enemy was taken there in all seriousness. You don’t want to do propaganda here?
            1. Romey
              Romey 20 May 2020 20: 29 New
              0
              I would also not throw stones at this pan. Firstly, the interview was conducted in a calm atmosphere without hysteria (hello to evening M.). The questions were clearly formulated, and the introduction and the subsequent reaction ... Well, we will not demand too much. Secondly, this interview is just an information bomb. With the help of Gordon, Igor Ivanovich broke through the long-standing information blockade, both Ukrainian and Kremlin. A million views and comments by famous YouTube and political bloggers, this is already significant. And the reaction of the baboons is generally just a fire ...
              In general, Igor Ivanovich Strelkov showed dill and kremlebots what a real Russian officer and patriot looks like. With success, you, Comrade Colonel!
              1. German Titov
                German Titov 20 May 2020 22: 33 New
                -7
                As a Donetsk resident, I will thank II. (To Strelkov-Girkin) that he dumped on time. They did not let him pass the village. October (so that the "Ukrainians" get stuck in urban battles). Thanks to him for being taken out on 45 prestigious cars - 43 wounded in the Russian Federation (they were treated at the Donetsk PVG). Thanks to him that we did not roll back from Donetsk to Snezhnoye (we just did not listen to him). Thank you that he simply is not in the Donbass. A similar thanks to "Babay".
                1. Kronos
                  Kronos 21 May 2020 01: 07 New
                  0
                  Well, how did you conquer everything without Strelkov? Even the Ukrainians damn admitted that frustrated their plans in Donetsk
              2. CSKA
                CSKA 21 May 2020 12: 40 New
                -1
                Quote: romey
                In general, Igor Ivanovich Strelkov showed dill and kremlebots,

                I wonder how you managed to insert kremlebots here?
                1. Romey
                  Romey 21 May 2020 13: 11 New
                  +3
                  Very simple. It is still unknown who Strelkova hates more: Ukrainians or ederasy. It was he who broke the first conspiracy with Gunpowder and partners in Geneva and categorically refused to integrate into the system of oligarchic relations.
                  1. CSKA
                    CSKA 22 May 2020 11: 36 New
                    -3
                    Quote: romey
                    Very simple. It is still unknown who Strelkova hates more: Ukrainians or ederasy.

                    And for what United Russia should hate Strelkova?))))
                    Quote: romey
                    It was he who broke the first conspiracy with Gunpowder and partners in Geneva

                    What do you grind at all?)))) What is the conspiracy, in which Geneva and when? And how did he break it? Do you live in some kind of alternative universe?
                    Quote: romey
                    and categorically refused to integrate into the system of oligarchic relations.

                    Are you out of your mind? What are oligarchic relationships? Whom and with whom?
                    You don’t even understand what you’re writing from a word at all, much less understand what was happening in the Donbass and is happening now.
                    Shooters without the Russian Federation and a step could not have taken. Do you think he could influence anything with 50 people? Who the hell did you spit on Geneva and sculpt about some sort of conspiracy? They would like, as they put it, United Russia to merge it would merge. What did he achieve? Passed Slavyansk, Kramatorsk, Druzhkovka, Konstantinovka although many local commanders did not want to surrender. Infiltrated the Internet endlessly. And as he came to Donetsk, so in August the track caught a cold, while serious fights just started. And United Russia just helped and is still helping. I don’t want to write here in an open forum how much the Russian government has done for the Donbass and is still doing it. Or do you think that LDNR exists only thanks to itself?
                    1. The comment was deleted.
                      1. The comment was deleted.
                      2. Romey
                        Romey 22 May 2020 13: 58 New
                        +2
                        Man, I naively believed that all the Kurghinian delirium had long since become irrelevant because of its delusionality. Wrong. And to engage in a polemic with a troll or a dense ignoramus is stupid. I can only recommend raising the press of spring-summer of '14 and maps of the operational situation. The man, apparently, does not know at all what the operational environment is. For everything else, laughter ...
                      3. Sling cutter
                        Sling cutter 22 May 2020 14: 08 New
                        +4
                        Quote: romey
                        Man, I naively believed that all the Kurghinian delirium had long since become irrelevant because of its delusionality.

                        Kamrad! drinks Kurginyansky nonsense will live while the kurginyanska is alive and drooling over everything and everyone. Somehow, even the militia wanted to shoot him. yes
                        The remnants of my illusions disappeared completely after one of my good friends died a heroic death on Saur Mogila, and the second arrived with an endlessly leaking roof. By the way, a friend of DUK, a professional dog handler under the call sign "." (Not worth it) could tell a lot to members of the forum about what is happening in the DNR and LNR, only he is modest by nature and ..... in general he is shy. recourse
                      4. CSKA
                        CSKA 22 May 2020 15: 48 New
                        -3
                        Quote: romey
                        I can only recommend raising the press of spring-summer of '14 and maps of the operational situation.

                        I don’t need to raise a clown, I myself am from Donetsk, the Kiev region and in 2014 I volunteered, and I saw everything with my own eyes, because at the beginning he went to the Slavic brigade. And will you tell me here a couch warrior to talk about the war and especially about geopolitics? You don’t understand anything, so you unsubscribe with standard excuses such as you about dew and trolling, and it’s not our business to answer questions. But in fact there is nothing to answer.
                    2. CSKA
                      CSKA 22 May 2020 15: 43 New
                      -4
                      Quote: Stroporez
                      Kamrad, this will not help

                      Unfortunately, nothing helps your brain.
                  2. CSKA
                    CSKA 22 May 2020 15: 42 New
                    -4
                    Quote: romey
                    Mdya ... Know comment, as they say. Ssy in the eye, all God's dew. He laughed heartily.

                    laughing so that is all. Which is to be expected. Merged? You have nothing to answer. Have you ever been to the DPR? Fought? Would not write this heresy. He drew Geneva, from Strelkov generalissimo did which turns out to have influenced some decisions of people in big politics, well, it's just ridiculous. he wrote a bunch of nonsense about the oligarchic relations of someone with someone. Well, no mind count the cripple.
                  3. Romey
                    Romey 22 May 2020 16: 05 New
                    +1
                    Oh, and funny you are trashy. At the same time nasty.
                  4. CSKA
                    CSKA 22 May 2020 16: 11 New
                    -3
                    Quote: romey
                    Oh, and funny you are trashy. At the same time nasty.

                    No, you are just ridiculous communists of divan troops. Another proof in your 10 words. You have nothing to say. All that you wrote above is nonsense invented by you.
    4. Insurgent
      Insurgent 21 May 2020 08: 00 New
      +3
      Quote: Oleg Zorin
      no one was engaged in propaganda at the GKO headquarters. The enemy was taken there in all seriousness. You don’t want to do propaganda here?


      You elevated me to the rank of a member of the GKO Headquarters, and I’m just a simple resident of the DNR. And on this basis, I have the right to have, and to express my opinion about such gaRdons without regard to "political correctness" and other conventions.
  • LeonidL
    LeonidL 21 May 2020 01: 25 New
    -1
    I consider taking and giving Ga "don even an interview a belittling of the honor of a Soviet (Russian) officer, no matter what the former.
  • Altona
    Altona 20 May 2020 12: 48 New
    +8
    We already "do not pull Russia economically" as our valiant authorities tell us, who established a regime of "sovereign democracy" and established a "special type of civilization" here, using a viral infection.
    1. CSKA
      CSKA 21 May 2020 12: 48 New
      -3
      Quote: Altona
      We already "do not pull Russia economically"

      And that some area has no budget? Or in the country? the genius of the economy is good to whine and carry nonsense.
      1. Altona
        Altona 21 May 2020 13: 34 New
        +3
        Quote: CSKA
        And that some area has no budget? Or in the country?

        ------------------------
        1) The budget, due to the fall in oil prices, from "surplus" has become scarce. Moreover, the deficit is significant - 4,5%.
        2) The laudatory speeches of the authorities because our budget is "surplus" immediately changed to lamentable, that "Russia is a poor country" (Siluanov) and "that there is no need to give money to the population" (Nabiullina).
        3) The funds of the NWF are spent on dubious purchases such as the "buyout of Sberbank" -2 trillion rubles, which was not sold to anyone, but simply allowed to manage.
        4) Sechin immediately came running from the fall in oil prices and asked for "benefits" for $ 200 billion, at the same time, some ridiculous amount was determined for payments to doctors and that was not paid, like the promised benefits.
        That's the whole budget. request
        1. CSKA
          CSKA 22 May 2020 15: 57 New
          0
          Quote: Altona
          1) The budget, due to the fall in oil prices, from "surplus" has become scarce. Moreover, the deficit is significant - 4,5%.

          I’ll tell you a secret, in most countries of the world budgets are scarce. External debt for most economically developed countries is 70-150% of GDP, for 15%.
          Quote: Altona
          2) The laudatory speeches of the authorities because our budget is "surplus" immediately changed to lamentable, that "Russia is a poor country" (Siluanov) and "that there is no need to give money to the population" (Nabiullina).

          Siluanov never said that we are poor, and no one just gives out money.
          Quote: Altona
          3) The funds of the NWF are spent on dubious purchases such as the "buyout of Sberbank" -2 trillion rubles, which was not sold to anyone, but simply allowed to manage.

          )))) What? Who was allowed to direct? And the NWF money goes not only to buy Sberbank.
          Quote: Altona
          4) Sechin immediately ran from the fall in oil prices and asked for "benefits" for $ 200 billion

          Where do you read this at all? Do you compose it yourself? You at least think about what you write. He proposed lowering oil transportation tariffs for Rosneft, postponing the payment of taxes related to geological exploration, and extending favorable credit conditions not only to oil industry workers, but also to their contractors and suppliers. What are 200 billion dollars? Russia's exports of 470 billion dollars.
          Quote: Altona
          at the same time, they determined some ridiculous amount for payments to doctors and they did not pay it, as did the promised benefits.

          In fact, after the scolding, they began to pay not ridiculous amounts.
  • Oleg Zorin
    Oleg Zorin 20 May 2020 12: 50 New
    12
    I trust the words of Strelkov (Girkin) more
  • Gardamir
    Gardamir 20 May 2020 12: 53 New
    +3
    The author did not start with the first letter.
    The beginning is "Krymnash". What can be called the troops of Ukraine was moving towards the Crimea. Yes, civilians stopped. Sometimes in the field behind the tank.
    If Donbass had not arisen, air conditioners would have exploded in Simyeropol.
    Why didn’t Russia support it? So Burkhalter arrived. The intensity began to decline, and then a plan was drawn on his knee.
    And who are the winners? Kremlin skim cream for Krymnash. Well, what shoots at Donbas is the internal showdown of Ukrainians.
    1. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins 20 May 2020 13: 01 New
      -4
      Well, after the standard "the junta came to power ..." on the objectivity of the article, generally stopped "pulling".
      1. Victorio
        Victorio 20 May 2020 13: 13 New
        +3
        Quote: Leader of the Redskins
        Well, after the standard "the junta came to power ..." on the objectivity of the article, generally ceased "to pull".

        ===
        the pastor and his team pulled on the junta
        1. The leader of the Redskins
          The leader of the Redskins 20 May 2020 14: 12 New
          -6
          Did he even serve in the army?
          А junta this is a military coup.
          1. Insurgent
            Insurgent 20 May 2020 15: 31 New
            +2
            Quote: Leader of the Redskins
            Did he even serve in the army?
            And the junta is a military coup.


            Based on the fact that the "Ukropsky Doctor Evil" was not a serviceman at the time armed coup, you want to say that in the outskirts of the junta and Blood Pastor himself could not become a dictator (and be him), before the team from the United States to remove him?



      2. Oleg Zorin
        Oleg Zorin 20 May 2020 13: 14 New
        +2
        A newspaper article certainly cannot draw on serious scientific research. A-priory. But Staver cannot be impartial; I cannot blame him for this either.
      3. samarin1969
        samarin1969 20 May 2020 20: 00 New
        +4
        Quote: Leader of the Redskins
        Well, after the standard "the junta came to power ..." on the objectivity of the article, generally stopped "pulling".

        I always read your comments with understanding, Leader. But it’s hard to agree with that. Of course - the junta. They overthrew the legitimately elected President (and me, too), killed a lot of law enforcement officers, introduced a Russophobic terror policy ... The fact that Turchinova, Klitschko and Yarosh were not recorded as criminals is the fault of the Russian leadership. Business interests were higher than the souls of Russian people in Ukraine. And Russia suffered disproportionately more serious losses from this than those hinted by the author Staver ...........
        1. The leader of the Redskins
          The leader of the Redskins 20 May 2020 20: 36 New
          +5
          I do not want to argue how to call this change of power differently: revolution, coup, overthrow ... But not the junta. For:
          Junta (Spanish junta - assembly) - a group of military men who came to power by force as a result of a coup
          Did the military stand on the barricades and came to power? No. So not a junta. But the author routinely launches a word that we hate, so that we would be imbued with his "objectivity". I just correct the terminology and that's it.
          1. Kronos
            Kronos 21 May 2020 01: 09 New
            0
            Well, not the junta putschists, for example, what will it change?
    2. CSKA
      CSKA 21 May 2020 13: 02 New
      0
      Quote: Gardamir
      If Donbass had not arisen, air conditioners would have exploded in Simyeropol.

      From what? Already Russian troops controlled everything in the Crimea, when everything in the Donbas was just beginning.
      Quote: Gardamir
      Why didn’t Russia support it? So Burkhalter arrived.

      Still do not get tired of this nonsense to write? He wrote to you many times already. Look at the dates. Burkhalter arrived in mid-May, and the Russian Federation in the summer actively began to help.
      Quote: Gardamir
      Well, what shoots at Donbas is the internal showdown of Ukrainians.

      In which the Russian Federation is not involved? Come finally to the Donbass and talk to people, especially with those who fought, maybe then you will not bear all this nonsense.
  • Beringovsky
    Beringovsky 20 May 2020 13: 14 New
    19
    The thesis that Russia "would not pull" the Donbass economy was initially not correct. To put it bluntly, it helps to catch up turbidity and distort the picture. For what? Apparently for the same - to justify the mistakes and outright surrender of positions by the Russian leadership.
    The fact is that Donbass is not only and not so much mine. It is also powerful metallurgy, mechanical engineering, chemistry and much more.
    Although of course there are no oil and gas deposits there! crying
    If we replace the development of our own country by feeding from the sale of resources, then yes, in this context, of course, the Donbass industry is a burden. Why is it, if it’s its own, the Russian one is not really needed by our current government?
    1. military_cat
      military_cat 20 May 2020 13: 35 New
      +8
      Quote: Beringovsky
      For what? Apparently for the same - to justify mistakes and frank surrender of positions by the leadership of the Russian Federation.
      It was the same with the OPEC + agreement. First, the stories "we will now destroy the American oil shale with a beautiful multi-passage". Then - yes, we have nothing to do with it, the Arabs started the price war. Convenient when the audience doesn't remember what was said yesterday.
  • Vladimir Kos
    Vladimir Kos 20 May 2020 13: 38 New
    +6
    I agree with the author .. at first it was a spontaneous movement. The presence of Russia was not observed, everything was too chaotic. Shooters did not start, the beginning of just power resistance - the seizure of the SBU in Lugansk on April 6, 2014. The building, in a strange way, turned out to be a small arms battalion. In an interview, Strelkov talks specifically about his own actions, and therefore does not mention previous events.
    1. Vladimir61
      Vladimir61 20 May 2020 22: 17 New
      -1
      Quote: Vladimir Kos
      The building, in a strange way, turned out to be a small arms battalion.

      There is nothing strange! Back in December 2013, a directive was passed on the export of all "excess" firearms under reliable "protection" in case of a complication of the situation. They took away all the security officials who had not been assigned a service record and seized from the population by the permit system of the Ministry of Internal Affairs.
      The SBU stored all this at home, since, in the regional administration, many were nationally patriotic - the result of the "import" of personnel from the central and western regions during the period from 2004 to 2013.
  • vavilon
    vavilon 20 May 2020 14: 50 New
    -7
    Russia simply snatched what is beneficial to it, and let the Ukrainian people rake the rest, it simply left its “own” people to the mercy of fate, together with the legitimate president of Ukraine
    How it’s a shame for me for Russia about what kind of brotherhood can Ukrainians now speak about and Belarus made conclusions from this.
    If Russia does not change its allegorical system and its policy towards its people (Ukraine, Belarus), difficult times await it in the future
    1. ANB
      ANB 21 May 2020 12: 12 New
      0
      . and its policy towards its people (Ukraine, Belarus)

      And what policy should be in your opinion?
      1. vavilon
        vavilon 21 May 2020 12: 55 New
        0
        The policy of Russia should have been aimed at integration with these republics in all areas of activity and not bargaining with them as in the market
        1. ANB
          ANB 21 May 2020 17: 30 New
          0
          . Russian policy should have been aimed at integration

          So they suggested integration. Do not want. I still understand the Belarusians.
          But Ukraine immediately got into a pose.
          1. vavilon
            vavilon 21 May 2020 18: 03 New
            0
            Integration should take place on mutually beneficial conditions and not under someone’s dictation
  • Filing
    Filing 20 May 2020 23: 07 New
    0
    After a meeting on March 30, 2014, US Secretary of State John Kerry in Paris with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, where the critical situation surrounding Ukraine was discussed, I realized the two countries decided the fate of Crimea and Donbas.
    Review the conference call after the meeting.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Alex66
    Alex66 21 May 2020 06: 44 New
    0
    Remember how in the Federation Council Putin unanimously approved the use of military force. Everyone was waiting for the liberation of Donbas, and here they declare themselves popular, how was it to the oligarchs? In this format, implying the restoration of socialism, Donbas does not need Putin, but does Donbas need to fight for Rotenberg, Vekselberg, instead of his own? So they started to freeze everything with the Minsk agreements. After all, if it had happened in the PEOPLES of the republics in the Donbas, then it could have turned out in Russia.
  • Sergey Mikula
    Sergey Mikula 21 May 2020 09: 14 New
    +2
    If Russia sent Strelkov’s detachment to destabilize the situation in the Donbass, then why did it stop halfway?

    The answer is very simple. Russia needed Crimea. Donbass served and serves as a bargaining chip. If tomorrow Kiev exchanges Crimea for the Donbass, within two days the DPR and LPR will cease to exist. By the way, Syria is the Donbass for American partners. It’s just that the Kremlin’s calculation didn’t come true, the Ukrainians, and the UN, were horned. Hence the useful sanctions.
  • BAI
    BAI 21 May 2020 10: 29 New
    -1
    If Crimea wanted almost 100% to Russia, then the southeast - 50 to 50. We would now have a continuous source of tension there. In addition, not cynically, the Donbass pulls the forces of Ukraine from the Crimea. If it weren’t for the Donbass, on the border of the Crimea and in the Crimea there would be continuous shooting.
    1. Kronos
      Kronos 24 May 2020 18: 32 New
      0
      I hope you still pay for it