Military Review

Jomini Henry Veniaminovich. Swiss from Napoleon's army in Russian service

54
Jomini Henry Veniaminovich. Swiss from Napoleon's army in Russian service

Portrait of Heinrich Veniaminovich Jomini, military gallery of the Winter Palace


History Russia is amazing. Moreover, in some aspects, it is a mirror image of the history of "sworn friends" - the United States. Two countries that have never fought among themselves look at themselves like a mirror for several centuries. Like the United States, the Russian Empire hosted foreigners. At the same time, immigration to Russia both in the XNUMXth and XNUMXth centuries was not as widespread as in the USA, only high-class specialists came to the empire. If now the problem of our country is that it is constantly "leaking brains", then in the past they, on the contrary, only arrived. Peter I also gave a massive start to the influx of foreigners, after which military specialists, industrialists, inventors, scientists, doctors, and representatives of technical professions rushed to Russia en masse.

The British, French, Germans, Swedes, Italians, residents of almost all European nationalities arrived in the empire and became its subjects. Many of them finally Russified and took root in our country. One of such representatives was the prominent military theorist Jomini, Henry Veniaminovich, a born Swiss resident Antoine Henry. The history of this military leader, who was at the origins of the opening of the Academy of the General Staff in our country in 1832, is truly amazing. He managed to fight for Napoleon I, being a participant in the war of 1812, and against the emperor of France, joining the Russian service in 1813. In Russia, Antoine Henri Jomini spent most of his military career in the military until 1855.

Antoine Henri Jomini


Antoine Henri Jomini was born in the small Swiss city of Payerne of the canton of Vaud on March 6, 1779 in the family of the local mayor Benjamin Jomini. In 1796, at the age of 17, he moved to Paris, where for some time he worked as a clerk in a bank until in 1798 he returned home. At this time, in Switzerland, which was dependent on revolutionary France, the Helvetic Republic was proclaimed. Returning to Switzerland, Antoine Henri joined the Ministry of War, receiving the rank of lieutenant. A year later, the young officer commanded the battalion, but the beginning of his military career was overshadowed by a corruption scandal. After being accused of bribes, Antoine Henri Jomini was forced to leave Switzerland for Paris.

In France, Jomini returned to commerce and worked for a while in the well-known Dupont company, which at that time was a major supplier of various equipment to the French army. While in the civil service, Jomini never ceased to be interested in military affairs, studied military sciences, read a lot of thematic literature, and eventually wrote and published his own book in 1804. Antoine Henri's work was entitled A Treatise on Major Military Operations and was a study of the military campaigns of Bonaparte and Frederick the Great.

In the same 1804, Jomini again voluntarily joined the French army. At the same time, his work did not go unnoticed, Napoleon himself appreciated it. The protection of the young military theorist was also provided by the future Marshal of France Michelle Ney. Moreover, the first edition of the Treatise on Large-scale Military Operations was published in three volumes at once and represented a great deal of work that marked the birth of a new military theorist.

Antoine Henri Jomini in the Napoleonic Wars


Antoine Henri Jomini took a direct part in the Napoleonic Wars, fighting in all major campaigns, starting in 1805. So he took part in the Austro-Russian-French war and accompanied Marshal Ney during the defeat of the Austrian army under Ulm. Soon after, Jomini received a post at the headquarters of the 6th Army Corps, and in 1806 he became the first adjutant of the Marshal. For the valor that Jomini showed in the campaign of 1805, Napoleon promoted him to colonel.


The surrender of Ulm, October 20, 1805, painting of 1815

Antoine Henri Jomini also participated in the Russian-Prussian-French war of 1806-1807. Even before the outbreak of hostilities in 1806, Jomini published a new essay, “A Memo on the Probability of a War with Prussia,” outlining his own views on a future war. Napoleon became acquainted with this work of Jomini and appreciated it. A promising officer, the French emperor took to his headquarters.

The young Swiss everywhere followed Napoleon, taking a direct part in two significant battles of the campaign: October 14, 1806 at Jena and February 7-8, 1807 at Preisisch-Eylau. At the battle of Jena, Antoine Henry was in battle formation of the 25th Line Regiment, which attacked the positions of the Russian army near Iserstadt. For this episode, he was noted in the report of the corps commander, and for the campaign of 1806-1807, Napoleon granted Jomini the baron title and awarded the highest award of France - the Legion of Honor.

Then Antoine Henri became the chief of staff of the 6th Army Corps, commanded by his patron Marshal Ney. In this position, Henry was during the campaign of Napoleon I in Spain in 1808. However, he did not stay in Spain for long, and already in 1809 he was seconded to Vienna. By that time, he had already been awarded the rank of brigadier general, and the young officer himself had prepared another work, about which Napoleon personally asked him. Initially, Jomini was to prepare a historical description of the Italian campaigns of the Napoleonic army of 1796-1800, but quickly enough a much more extensive work came out from under his pen, covering events from 1792 to 1801. The work was called "Critical and Military History of the Revolutionary Wars." And already in 1811, Jomini prepared a new full edition of “A Treatise on the Great Hostilities” - a large-scale scientific work of 8 volumes, the publication of which continued until 1816.

The war of 1812 and the transition to Russian service


Together with the army of Napoleon I, Antoine Henri Jomini took part in the Russian campaign of 1812, which was the beginning of the death of the French Empire created by Bonaparte. At the same time, Jomini did not take part in the hostilities. At first he was governor of Vilna, and later the commandant of the Smolensk taken by the French. Despite the rear positions, Antoine Henry provided invaluable assistance to the retreating remnants of the Great Army. Thanks to the information collected by him in advance, it was possible to transport the remains of the army and Napoleon through the Berezina. Crossing the river was conducted above Borisov, which was firmly held by parts of Marshal Udino. Thanks to this decision, part of the French army was able to avoid complete defeat and captivity, while Jomini himself almost drowned and became seriously ill with a fever.


Peter von Hess. Crossing the Berezina

It is curious that Antoine Henri Jomini became the only participant in the Patriotic War of 1812, who fought on the side of the enemy - the French, but at the same time his portrait was subsequently placed on the walls of the Winter Palace in St. Petersburg, in the famous military gallery.

During the 1813 campaign, Jomini fully recovered from his illness and returned to duty. He met the New Year of the Napoleonic Wars the chief of staff of the 3rd Army Corps, commanded by Marshal Michelle Ney. It is believed that the talent, knowledge of the strategy and tactics of Jomini had a decisive influence on the victory of the French army over the united Russian-Prussian army at Bautzen on May 20-21, 1813. After the retreat of the Allied army to Silesia, the parties signed an armistice agreement until August 1813. At the same time, for this battle, Jomini was introduced to the rank of division general, but for some reason he never received it. It is believed that this was due to the tense relations of Antoine Henri with the chief of the General Staff of Napoleon Louis, Alexander Bertier, a conflict with which Jomini had existed since 1810.

Offended by the misappropriation of the next rank on the day of the ceasefire, Antoine Henri Jomini went over to the side of the anti-French coalition. In Prague, Jomini was accepted into the service by the Russian emperor Alexander I and promoted to lieutenant general. The newly-minted Russian general was included in the retinue of His Imperial Majesty for the quartermaster part (the prototype of the future General Staff). Together with the Russian troops, Jomini took part in the battles near Kulm on August 29-30, 1813, participated in the “Battle of the Peoples” near Leipzig on October 16-19 of the same year. And in the next year’s campaign, he took part in the battle of Brienne on January 29, 1814 and in the storming of Bar-sur-Saint on March 2, 1814. After the end of the war in Europe and the victory of the forces of the 6th anti-French coalition, Antoine Henri Jomini accompanied the Russian Emperor Alexander I to the Vienna Congress.

Creation of the Academy of the General Staff


Until 1824, Antoine Henri Jomini was visiting his new homeland, continuing to work on various military-theoretical works. Finally, the officer moved to Petersburg only in the summer of 1824. After the accession to the throne of Emperor Nicholas I in 1825, Jomini began to live continuously in Russia, finally becoming Heinrich Veniaminovich. In 1826, the emperor granted the Swiss the rank of general from infantry. In Russia, his military-theoretical activities did not stop. Jomini continued to write books, so in 1830 the "Analytical Review of Military Art" was published. And in 1838, the second most important military work, Essays on Military Art, came out of the pen of the now Russian general. The author put this work in the basis of a new course of strategy, which, among other things, he read for the heir to the Russian throne - the future emperor Alexander II.


The building of the Imperial Nikolaev Military Academy in St. Petersburg

While in the Russian military service, Heinrich Veniaminovich Zhomini was involved as an adviser in planning military operations during the Russo-Turkish War of 1828-1829 and the Crimean War of 1853-1856. At the same time, during the war with Turkey, Jomini accompanied the emperor on a military campaign and was subsequently awarded the Order of St. Alexander Nevsky. During his service, Jomini was awarded many state orders, including the Order of St. Anna of the I degree and the highest award of the Russian Empire - the Order of St. Andrew the First-Called.

The most important achievement of Jomini in Russian military service was the creation in St. Petersburg of the Military Academy of the General Staff, which was opened in 1832. It was an invaluable contribution to the development of Russian military education. Heinrich Veniaminovich Zhomini has been promoting this project since 1826, when for the first time on behalf of Nicholas I he substantiated the idea of ​​creating a Central Strategic School in our country, which was supposed to lead to the unity of principles and methods of teaching tactics and strategy to officers. The grand opening of the Imperial Military Academy took place in St. Petersburg on November 26, 1832 (December 8, according to a new style). Thus, Baron Heinrich Veniaminovich Zhomini forever entered Russian military history as a major military theorist, historian, infantry general, who is one of the authors of the project for creating the Academy of the General Staff.

In service in the Russian army, Jomini remained until 1855, having managed to receive the Order of St. George of the 4th degree in 25 years of continuous service. Already at a respectable age, Heinrich Veniaminovich left the country, which became his second Motherland, and returned to Switzerland, and then moved to France in the town of Passy, ​​where he died at the age of 90 at the end of March 1869. Moreover, in Russia all these years his son, Russian diplomat Alexander Zhomini, who worked for many years at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, continued to work, and in 1879-1880 he occupied the post of comrade (assistant) of the Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Empire. A famous Russian diplomat died on December 5, 1888 in St. Petersburg.


Henry Veniaminovich Zhomini

At the same time, the contribution made to the military historical case of Jomini was appreciated by his descendants. Among other things, an outstanding military theorist was the first to single out another concept from the concept of “theater of war” - “theater of operations”. Jomini was also the first among military researchers to demonstrate to everyone the difference between the concepts of operational direction and operational line. The military researcher's provisions on the concentration of the main forces in the direction of the main attack and close interaction in the battle of artillery, cavalry and infantry had a very serious influence on the development of all Western European and Russian military thought in the 1889th century. At the same time, the work of Antoine Henri Jomini made a huge contribution to the formation and development of the entire national school of military strategy, especially in the 1898th century. One of his most famous students was General Heinrich Antonovich Leer, who headed the Nikolaev Academy of the General Staff in XNUMX-XNUMX.
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  1. svp67
    svp67 20 May 2020 04: 46 New
    16
    "... They say they are smarter ...
    But what do we hear from love?
    Jomini da Jomini!
    And not a word about vodka! ... "
    D.V. Davydov
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 20 May 2020 06: 23 New
      +7
      Thank you for the topic raised Sergey!
      Only thing thesis
      . Peter I also gave a massive start to the influx of foreigners, after which military experts, industrialists, inventors, scientists, doctors, and representatives of technical professions rushed to Russia en masse.
      controversial.
      The influx of foreigners into the state apparatus of the Russian principalities, later the Moscow, then the Russian state was constantly high. If we conditionally take the pedigrees of our nobility, then natural Rusaks can count less than a quarter of the names! For example, even Menshikov took himself out of turn! And the Vedas was a fairly wide layer of assimilation of the Vikings, Torques, Ugrians, Kobyaks, Greeks, Bulgarians and others like them at the initial stage of the formation of Russia!
      Then a massive influx of tribal nobility of the Moriites, Mordva, Chuvash, Izhora + eastern component! The latter gave us at least the ancestors of Tatishchev and Karamzin! Even the African in the form of Ganibal Arap Peter the Great Grandfather of Pushkin! You can write separate articles about the non-metchina and the mire of the era of Ivan the Terrible or the Tatar and the Romans — Vasiliev of Moscow !!! There is even a Scottish trace in the pedigree of the Russian poet Lermontov!
      And all the examples I have given, except for one before the reign of Peter !!!
      But there was still a process of returning compatriots! Beavers Volynsky, Belsky, Glinsky, Starodubsky. In addition, the “princes and the best” people of Siberia, later Central Asia and the Caucasus, poured into the nobility! One Bagration is worth a lot !!! Although here again the era of Peter the Great !!!
      You can go on endlessly, good day to all! Your kote!
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 20 May 2020 07: 01 New
        +3
        even Menshikov took himself out of turn
        Of encouraged.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 20 May 2020 08: 06 New
          +3
          WikNick I blame the paws are crooked! Of course darn!
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 20 May 2020 10: 57 New
            +2
            Of course darn!

            Rip off, then. laughing "ripped off" - the command "face" the cat on the ottoman. drinks
          2. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 20 May 2020 13: 12 New
            +2
            Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
            even Menshikov took himself out of turnovers!

            Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
            Of course darn!

            Quote: Pane Kohanku
            "ripped off"

            From the revs, Vlad, from the revs. smile
            Inspired by:
            The brightest.
            He may, of course, encourage
            But still a typical rev
            He will convert anyone to his faith
            And without a doubt after wrap.

            Sorry, impromptu. smile
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 20 May 2020 13: 23 New
              +2
              from revs.

              as it turned out from the genealogy of Vladovoy, which he issued below on the branch, they were deprived of being distant relatives of borodin’s strollers. drinks The haplogroup C2H5OH bis confirms the same. request It remains to carry out archaeological excavations in Ussuri - on the site of the old channel of the Bolshoi Ussuri channel. wink There is certainly a rich cultural layer! fellow
      2. Edward Vashchenko
        Edward Vashchenko 20 May 2020 07: 41 New
        +5
        Vladislav,
        good morning,
        let me disagree with you.
        The influx of foreigners into the Russian service at different periods was different and the reasons were different.
        But still, the basis, while mass, was from the native, Russian population. And it is indisputable.
        Lyashko, Varyazhko are nicknames, not indications of ethnicity.
        In the 17-18 centuries. fashion has gone, and in "chivalry" it is in all countries in part, to compose about foreign origin. They were the same foreigners or even "Tatars", like Ivan the Terrible descended from Augustus.
        Or Pushkin found his ancestor in the Neva battle.
        Let me stress that before the 18th century. In the service of foreigners entered or entered the princelings of the conquered neighboring tribes and nationalities, and even then far, far from all, but it was not a massive stream that directly "dammed" Russia.
        "Germans" were again needed as military specialists.
        In general, the picture was as Nekrasov described it:
        My maternal great-great-grandfather
        Was that ancient:
        "Prince Shchepin with Vaska Gusev
        (Says another letter)
        Tried to set fire to Moscow
        They thought to rob the treasury
        Yes they were executed by death ",
        But it was kind,
        Three hundred years without.

        It’s another matter, starting with Peter, because of the need for those specialists, however, after the defeat near Narva, the Western mercenaries-military specialists were quickly abandoned, of course, someone stayed as Minich and even reached the top posts, but this was not massive again phenomenon.
        I won’t write much more, but after the Germans and Dutch migrations under Catherine the Great, the emigrants from France fled, there were no special tributaries, just a stream.
        Yes, among them outstanding specialists met, but, I repeat, it was a trickle.
        There is no comparison with the United States, and indeed there is nothing to compare: there is the development of "virgin lands", with the exception of the Indians, and here the developed territories in the European part or wild lands, where a band of Cossacks easily coped with territories equal to the whole of Europe.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 20 May 2020 08: 17 New
          +2
          Edward, let me disagree with you. "Native vector" was significant for the formation of the elites of the principalities of Russia! Moreover, I believe that even today it is not overestimated by modern research! For example, the princes Yusupov! Or a military specialist, Zikler, whose son under Peter supported the "Russian antiquity." You can continue for a long time.
          I do not compare Russia with America; today we cannot saturate the living space beyond the Urals !!!
          Essentially, in my post I noted the multinationality and quality of assimilation of foreigners to Petrovsky Russia !!!
          Regards, Vlad!
          P.S. The pen was and was constant! By the way, it was much wider than we perceive focusing only on European experts.
          1. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 20 May 2020 15: 19 New
            +1
            Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
            The pen was and was constant!

            Recall at least the Greeks, who, starting from the XI century. actively participated in the creation and formation of Russian (I emphasize, Russian!) culture. They came here, settled down, got families, students, got lied and in their descendants were already indistinguishable from Russians, were Russians.
            In short, you and Edward are both right. Edward - that the share of the Russian substrate has always been dominant and decisive, and you - that there was always enough salt and spices in this wonderful dish due to their constant influx from beyond the hillock. And honor and praise to our ancestors for the fact that they knew how to accept and absorb all the good, necessary, that came to us "from alien limits."
            1. Amartol
              Amartol 30 May 2020 11: 12 New
              0
              You write "Remember at least the Greeks", "knew how to accept and absorb." The fate of Maxim the Greek is remarkable. who was exiled to the Tverskoy Otroch Monastery under supervision, and the Likhud brothers, who were exiled to the Kostroma Ipatiev Monastery
      3. alebor
        alebor 20 May 2020 09: 30 New
        +1
        If we conditionally take the pedigrees of our nobility, then natural Rusaks can count less than a quarter of the names! For example, even Menshikov took himself out of turn!

        If we take the pedigrees of ancient noble families, then with surprise you can find that there are practically no "natural hares" among them! But the example of Menshikov's "happiness, a darling of the rootless" gives us an excellent answer to this riddle of history - the majority of "well-born and noble men" who left for Russia from the Germans, Swedes, Prussians or Tatars during the reign of Tsar Pea is just a fiction. Notable foreign ancestors were invented to give the noble family more antiquity and nobility. How else to explain that, going deep into history, information about the ancestor is lost? Either he was at that time unknown to anyone, a "thin" Russian person who entered the princely or boyar service, or he was noble, but there is no information about him, because he lived abroad. The second option, of course, is preferable and honorable. Therefore, it makes no sense to blindly trust the genealogy, they were written much later than the origin of the genera. Moreover, even if the surname comes from a Türkic word, this is not yet an indisputable evidence of the Horde origin. For example, the clearly not Slavic nickname Sheremet was given to the great-great-grandson of the famous boyar Andrei Kobyla, a completely Russian man, Andrei Bezzubtsev, from whom the Sheremetevs went. By the way, his brother also bore the nickname of Yepancha - Yepanchiny, which was not of Russian origin. It is another matter when there is documentary historical evidence of a visit to Russia. For example, the same Yusupovs - here it is reliably known about their Nogai origin.
      4. iouris
        iouris 20 May 2020 13: 14 New
        0
        Jomini is the founder of logistics.
        In this case, the topic: the historical aspect of the organization of the "brain drain" in the Russian Federation.
        Stalin and Beria, in general, organized a brain drain and technology on an unprecedented scale. And what happened after 1985?
      5. vladcub
        vladcub 20 May 2020 19: 55 New
        +2
        The namesake, I agree on all points, but Menshikov is a controversial issue: the "well-born" spat all over him: "rabbit pies." He was interested in deriving his ancestry from at least some creepy nobility: "Made in is not with us," and his political opponents would benefit from emphasizing his "mean" origin.
        That he is not one of the "brilliant" - and do not go to the grandmother. It is believed that he was not literate; the Hermitage has a gold stencil through which he signed
    2. tank64rus
      tank64rus 20 May 2020 10: 10 New
      +1
      Bravo! Poet- partisan D.V. Davydov was not only a dashing hussar, but also a military theorist of guerrilla warfare. His work on the tactics of the partisan movement was used during the Great Patriotic War.
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 20 May 2020 11: 37 New
        +2
        Poet- partisan D.V. Davydov was not only a dashing hussar

        Alexander, I will add. hi We all know about Denis Davydov. But there were personalities no less, if not more significant - Figner, Seslavin, Vintsingerode. And half of these "partisan" commanders were Germans! laughing The future chief of the gendarmes, Benkedorf, was also a dashing partisan, and in the campaign of 1813, his comrades, with little strength, freed Holland from the French. soldier
        And Davydov ... I think they remembered by poetry! hi
        1. vladcub
          vladcub 20 May 2020 21: 01 New
          +3
          Nikolai, it’s quite true: Denis Davydov was not the only partisan. It's just that in our historiography Davydov somehow "overshadowed" other commanders. And Figner, for example, continued to partisan in Prussia.
          We did not want to remember Benckendorff because of the 3rd department, but he was quite liberal: for example, he tried in every possible way to protect the democratic, for those times, magazine: "Moscow Telegraph", and Pushkin welcomed the closure of the leading magazine for that time
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 21 May 2020 10: 16 New
            0
            I agree on all points, Svyatoslav! drinks
            But Figner, for example, continued to partisan in Prussia.

            this one was still that Figaro. He did fantastic things, but, alas, he died! hi
  2. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 20 May 2020 05: 18 New
    0
    If now the problem of our country is that it is constantly "leaking brains", then in the past they, on the contrary, only arrived.
    "It is better to feed, then they will not fly away" (Advertising in the 2000s)
  3. Olgovich
    Olgovich 20 May 2020 06: 14 New
    +5
    Offended by the misappropriation of the next rank on the day of the ceasefire, Antoine Henri Jomini went over to the side of the anti-French coalition. In Prague, Jomini was accepted into the service by the Russian emperor Alexander I and promoted to lieutenant general.


    It doesn’t matter for whom to fight, the main thing is the general! Yes, ambitious was ....

    But obviously smart.

    and life has lived an interesting and eventful 90 years!
  4. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 20 May 2020 06: 17 New
    0
    Thanks to the author. An interesting note in the morning.
  5. Undecim
    Undecim 20 May 2020 07: 39 New
    +7
    Offended by the misappropriation of the next rank on the day of the ceasefire, Antoine Henri Jomini went over to the side of the anti-French coalition.
    Here the author greatly simplified the biography of Jomini. Firstly, relations with Bertier at Jomini did not develop from the very beginning of his service in the French army. Secondly, he first expressed his intention to go to serve in Russia back in 1807 and subsequently returned to this issue more than once, but Napoleon kept a talented military theorist in France and allowed Zhomini, at his request, not to participate in hostilities in Russia, appointing to rear positions.
    And in 1813, Berthier not only deleted Jomini from the lists, he accused him of defeat at the Battle of Bautzen and insisted on bringing him to trial.
    By the way, Russia also reacted with understanding to Jomini’s request not to participate in hostilities in France.
    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 20 May 2020 10: 54 New
      +3
      Firstly, relations with Bertier at Jomini did not develop from the very beginning of his service in the French army.

      Viktor Nikolaevich, and what specifically did Jomini not share with Bertier, since such a heat has gone? hi
      “Bertier,” he said (Bonaparte), “you are my prince Neuchatel.” I think you will not be hurt by the title of Prince Wagram?
      - I am happy to belong to you, sir ...
      (V.S.Pikul, "To Each His Own")
      Thanks to the author for the article. hi
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 20 May 2020 10: 59 New
        +2
        Not only Bertier, but also many other military men, believed that because of his age and lack of military experience, Jomini could not claim to be a theoretician, much less teach them. In Russia, by the way, too. Just Berthier had the opportunity to crap almost.
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 20 May 2020 11: 03 New
          +2
          Just Berthier had the opportunity to crap almost.

          It turns out that Prince Neuchatel was not such a teddy bear in personal relationships! hi well, of course - they say, "upstart", and all that. It's like we did not like Bagration Barclay - they say, he was younger in seniority. hi
    2. Tavrik
      Tavrik 20 May 2020 23: 00 New
      -1
      "What a sly boy." Isn't he a Jew, for an hour? Defector.
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 21 May 2020 04: 40 New
        +2
        Quote: Tavrik
        "What a sly boy." Isn't he a Jew, for an hour? Defector.

        What does the Jews have to do with it? I'm just curious about your point of view !!!
        Regards, Kote!
        1. Tavrik
          Tavrik 21 May 2020 13: 28 New
          +1
          They say about such people: "Corrupt as brave." It can be flexibly integrated into various systems. "To betray it in time, do not betray it, it is to foresee!" (FROM)
          I didn’t find mutual understanding with the NGS and switched to serve the enemy. Does not cause respect.
          But Napoleon is a humanist: well, if you don’t want to fight in Russia, govern in Smolensk. And could send to Spain ...
          Interestingly, under Bautzen Jomini what position did he hold?
  6. Operator
    Operator 20 May 2020 11: 16 New
    -1
    Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
    Moriytsev, Mordovians, Chuvashs, Izhora

    What do you wake up - revolutions? laughing
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 20 May 2020 13: 00 New
      +3
      Andrei, I’m a natural hamayun on three out of four lines. Fourth - great-grandfather Chebarkul Cossack and great-grandmother of the Chuvash!
      Who are the Nizhneserginsky hamayuns read the information on the Internet is.
      In short. The descendants of the Ramadan peasants who he brought out from under the Smolensk region in troubled times to their patrimony near Kaluga. Later, my ancestors bought N.N.Demidov, who took them to the Urals to build factories! So we live and imagine ourselves as gamayunami !!!
      Regards, Kote!
      1. Operator
        Operator 20 May 2020 13: 36 New
        +2
        Gamayun in the Old Slavonic language is a talkative person, a noisy bird, etc. laughing
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 20 May 2020 13: 48 New
          +2
          Gamayun in Old Slavonic

          As far as I remember, boyar Khovansky at the end of the 17th century was called "tararui" for his talkativeness and beautiful expressive speech. hi
          1. Operator
            Operator 20 May 2020 14: 08 New
            +1
            17th century - the language is already Russian, not Old Slavonic.
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 20 May 2020 14: 33 New
              +3
              Andrei, I throw several versions of Gamayun from the word homon, gam (noisy, goggles), gaman (hardworking, shibutnye). Regarding the bird, an analogue of the Greek phoenix, a bird with a female face! To be honest, hamayuns are inherently harmful, neighbors say you won’t interrogate the snow in winter! For that, if you do something, Gamayun will not pass by you, you will certainly get involved in work!
              Yesterday I turned over 7 meter pipes to the ditch, started one, finished three together !!! And they all started with the words - is there still scrap?
              Now, if I was sitting on the pipes, then everyone would pass by!
      2. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 20 May 2020 14: 28 New
        +4
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        natural hamayun

        Like seven treasured strings
        Rang in their turn
        That’s me bird Gamayun
        Gives hope
        (c) V. Vysotsky
        To be honest, I always thought that initially "Gamayun" was a term from ancient Slavic or ancient Iranian mythology. That was the name, as far as I know, of the bird - the messenger of the gods, portending death or misfortune. There were also birds Sirin and Alkonost, they are mentioned in the cited song of Vysotsky. From the same row, the Phoenix bird, or the Firebird.
        About the fact that in the Urals some people call themselves hamayuns, I also heard before and always believed that this name was purely small-town, such as brackets in Pskov. The same Russians, only slightly different in dialect and customs.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 20 May 2020 14: 47 New
          +2
          In fact, everything is "the same Russian but different in dialect"!
          For the first time, gamayunschina is described in the eponymous study of the end of the century before last near Kaluga! Alas, only local historians remember Kaluga hamayuns now!
          The Ural community (Lower Sergi, Upper Sergi, Mikhailovsk, Atig, Upper Ufaley, Kasli, Nyaz-Petrovsk, Verkh-Isetskiy district of Yekaterinburg) still remembers its roots and speaks in a soft, accented voice! For example, in Moscow, the indigenous inhabitants of the capital take me for a native !!! There was a funny case when, during an inspection, the head of the commission of the Ministry of Internal Affairs believed that I was his subordinate, I even cut tasks !!!
          Approximately Ural Gamayunschina number 300 000 people !!!
      3. Tavrik
        Tavrik 20 May 2020 23: 01 New
        +1
        It reminded me of the old: "You came from a monkey, and I - from Adam and Eve."
        Do not be offended, so, by the way, had to. hi
  7. Operator
    Operator 20 May 2020 11: 20 New
    -1
    Quote: alebor
    most of the "well-born and noble men" who left for Russia from the Germans, Swedes, Prussians or Tatars under Tsar Pea is just a fiction

    More precisely - Russophobian fiction, still warming the soul of the nazmen with an inferiority complex.
    1. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master 20 May 2020 15: 03 New
      +4
      Quote: Operator
      More precisely - Russophobian fiction,

      And even more precisely - an invention of the representatives of these same genera. Alebor colleague explained exactly and clearly to you how and why these inventions arose.
      Only with your keen and painful perception can you see signs of Russophobia in this. An innocent fantasy with the goal of giving itself a little more meaning and gaining access to certain posts in the service of the sovereign, nothing more. Not everyone was so arrogant and self-confident that they ascribe to themselves an origin from Rurik - there were people more modest.
      And about the complex of national inferiority - the question. I get the impression that it is you, precisely, who are suffering from this very complex in a severe and, probably, already incurable form. Otherwise, why would you sprinkle saliva when it’s not you personally, not the Russian people, to whom you, unfortunately, rank yourself, didn’t insult you, you didn’t offend you, and you didn’t touch you at all? Such a painful and aggressive reaction to nonexistent resentment is peculiar to people who are unsure of themselves, underestimated (in their opinion) in life, or something offended.
      Fortunately, normal people, most of whom are here, are not hard to recognize the simple truth: Russia is a multinational state, this is its strength. And there is not much difference in what language a person uttered his first word, if his activities are for the benefit and for the glory of Russia, and even more so, there is no difference what kind of haplogroup he has there.
      The same can be said, and vice versa - if a person causes harm to Russia - he steals, kills, sells drugs or pursues Nazi ideas, even if he is Ivan Ivanov, who consists entirely of haplogroup R1a with the most Aryan subclades and a thirty genealogy generations, it must be isolated from society, so as not to interfere with normal people to work.
  8. Bersaglieri
    Bersaglieri 20 May 2020 12: 12 New
    +3
    "..A large-scale start to the influx of foreigners was given by Peter I ..." ... earlier, earlier ... much earlier. Ivan III also invited "Fryazinov and Germans for cannon and other business". Let's remember: who built the Kremlin?
    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 20 May 2020 12: 25 New
      +3
      Recall: who built the Kremlin?

      not only the Moscow Kremlin. In the Novgorod Kremlin, the Faceted Chamber was also co-authored with foreigners.
      1. iouris
        iouris 20 May 2020 12: 43 New
        -3
        In duropedia there is also something about modern jomini who "restored" what was built.
        The Mabetex case is a Russian corruption scandal. It was alleged that the Swiss construction firm Mabetex Engineering and its subsidiary Mercata Trading & Engineering SA paid millions of US dollars to a number of Russian government officials in bribes for lucrative contracts, in particular a contract for restoration work in the Moscow Kremlin. This case was investigated by the authorities of Russia, Switzerland and Italy.
        On February 28, 2000, the material was published in Novaya Gazeta, according to which financial accounts with Mercata, Mabetex and others, which "diverted" the state budget through the administrative departments of the President of the Russian Federation, were prepared personally by the First Deputy Minister of Finance of the Russian Federation Mikhail Kasyanov in 1995-1996.
        In June 2000, Devo charged Pacolli with laundering $ 4 million. According to the prosecution, Pacolli was a member of a criminal group created “with the aim of gaining an illegal advantage under contracts concluded with Russia.” [7] In the same month, Bernard Bertossa announced that about $ 65 million was laundered through Mabetex and Mercata.
        In September 2000, Daniel Devo sent an investigative commission to the Prosecutor General of Russia in the Mabetex case. In this order, in particular, it was stated that Switzerland is under investigation on charges of money laundering and participation in a criminal organization against 14 people, including Pavel Borodin, Andrey Siletsky, Ekaterina Siletskaya, head of the Mercata company Viktor Stolpovskikh.
        In November 2000, Bernard Bertossa stated that he had evidence that it was Borodin who owned some of the bank accounts in the Mabetex case.
        Witnesses in the Russian criminal case included, in particular, Pavel Borodin, Boris Yeltsin, his wife Naina Yeltsin and his daughter Tatyana Dyachenko and Elena Okulova. Pavel Borodin, Naina Yeltsina, Tatyana Dyachenko, and Elena Okulova were interrogated during a Russian investigation into the Mabetex case. Boris Yeltsin was not questioned.
        In December 2000, Ruslan Tamaev terminated the criminal case of the company Mabetex with the motivation “for the lack of corpus delicti”.
        And about a word again about vodka. And vodka is not ours anymore.
        1. Bersaglieri
          Bersaglieri 21 May 2020 11: 39 New
          0
          Offtopic, the topic has absolutely nothing to do with it.
      2. Bersaglieri
        Bersaglieri 21 May 2020 11: 38 New
        +1
        And the main contribution of Fioravanti is the Cannon Yard and the training of foundry craftsmen.
  9. Shuttle
    Shuttle 20 May 2020 12: 34 New
    +1
    in some aspects, it is a mirror image of the history of "sworn friends" - the United States. Two countries that have never fought among themselves, look at themselves in the mirror for several centuries.

    A few? How many is how many? A couple of hundred years ago, the United States only learned to be an independent country. And only world (European) wars allowed the United States to fatten in these very wars while being in high water.
  10. AK1972
    AK1972 20 May 2020 12: 54 New
    0
    For all his merits in the Russian service, the transition to the side of the enemy, and even because of personal resentment, smells bad. Such an act at all times and among all nations is called betrayal.
    1. iouris
      iouris 20 May 2020 16: 19 New
      -2
      Don't, not at all times. In general, the relationship between the state (sovereign) is called a "contract". After the termination of the contract, the parties are free (from each other)!
      1. AK1972
        AK1972 20 May 2020 16: 34 New
        +2
        In fact, the war did not end, the salary of Brigadier General Jomini was regularly received, which means that the contract is not finished, and the fact that the rank of divisional was not given is not obliged. Is it possible to imagine that Suvorov, offended by Paul (and he had reasons for that), switched to the Prussian service, or Kutuzov, for the same reason, entered into a "contract" with Napoleon and how would we call them if this happened?
        1. iouris
          iouris 20 May 2020 21: 37 New
          0
          You do not understand. Jomini - Swiss, European. The father of the German poet Schiller, a military doctor, also passed from one duke to another.
          By the way, Gorby also took the oath and oath, joining the ranks of the CPSU. So what?
          1. Tavrik
            Tavrik 21 May 2020 13: 38 New
            0
            Moving from one state to another was a completely ordinary thing in the 17-18 centuries. In the Thirty Years' War, beauty is generally: yesterday captured, today - soldiers of our army. They didn’t pay the paycheck - they crossed over with the whole company to the enemy.
            But as the self-awareness and unity of nations strengthened, this began to be practiced less and began to look at it more and more askew.
  11. Ham
    Ham 20 May 2020 18: 00 New
    +2
    At the same time, immigration to Russia in the XNUMXth and XNUMXth centuries was not as widespread as in the United States, only high-class specialists came to the empire

    and Volga Germans? and the German colonists in Ukraine? and the Black Sea Greeks? we had entire German villages in the southern Urals!
    ordinary people went to free lands for a new life ...
    As for "only highly qualified specialists", one can also argue, the percentage of careerists and money-gamblers among them was quite high ... already under Peter the Great, the process of replacing foreigners with "friends" began, then there was the reign of Anna Ioanovna - Duchess of Courland - marked by the absolute dominance of the Germans over the highest statesmen posts - the so-called "birovshchina" ... Empress Elizaveta Petrovna tried to reverse the trend - it was then that Mikhailo Lomonosov beat the German academicians with a stick;) but the coming to power in the empire of the princess of Anhalt-Zerbst Sofia-Augusta under the name of Catherine 2 finally opened access to higher positions in empire ...
    under the emperor Alexander 1 - who generally did not like all sorts of Russians, de tolli and niselrode firmly established themselves in the ruling elite and in the ranks of the highest nobility ...
    Only the October Revolution reversed the trend
    1. Bersaglieri
      Bersaglieri 21 May 2020 11: 40 New
      0
      Right. Under Catherine II, the influx of immigrants from their Europe increased the population of the Russian Empire by about 10 percent.
    2. Bersaglieri
      Bersaglieri 21 May 2020 11: 41 New
      0
      Neselrodebadno, but what is De Tolly guilty of? Or, for example, Jacobi or Shilling? Or Schilder?
      1. Ham
        Ham 21 May 2020 13: 34 New
        0
        Well, it's so simple for an example)
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