The Parliament of Ukraine refused to repeal the law granting official status to the Russian language in a number of regions

The Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine refused to cancel the law On the Fundamentals of the State Language Policy adopted by 3 in July, granting official status to the Russian language in a number of regions. This is reported by UNIAN.

The Parliament considered, in total, four draft resolutions on the annulment of the results of voting on this draft law. All of them were submitted by the opposition, which believes that when considering the document, the regulations and the Constitution of Ukraine were violated.

According to the RIA "News", none of the four draft resolutions of the opposition received more than 50 votes with the necessary minimum of 226 votes." The law is absolutely within the framework of the constitution, he clearly confirms: the only state language is Ukrainian, it is clearly written in line with the European Charter for Regional Minority Languages ​​", - said the first deputy chairman of the pro-presidential faction of the Party of Regions, Mikhail Chechetov.

In addition, the country's parliament voted against the resignation of Parliament Speaker Vladimir Lytvyn. 266 deputies from 279 supported the confirmation of his powers with the necessary minimum of 226 votes.

“The Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine decides to deny the head of the Verkhovna Rada, Litvin, to satisfy his statement of withdrawal from his post, and to confirm Litvin’s authority for the post of head of the Verkhovna Rada, and to give him a vote of confidence,” Adam Martynyuk, reading the text of the resolution.

Recall that July 3 deputies of the Verkhovna Rada unexpectedly voted on a bill raising the status of the Russian language to regional where it is native to at least 10% of the population. This is almost half of the country's regions. The law was supported by 248 parliamentarians, against were 226 people. Now Viktor Yanukovych should put his signature on the document.

The bill itself initially caused controversy in Ukrainian society. After voting in the Rada, the opposition promised to seek its cancellation after winning the upcoming parliamentary elections in the fall.

Opponents of the law on languages ​​in the center of Kiev picketed the building of the Ukrainian House for several days in a row. And on July 5 it became known that Litvin wrote a letter of resignation. Earlier, the head of the Ukrainian parliament announced that he would sign the law on the fundamentals of the state language policy only under the condition of strict adherence to the rules of the law on regulations, which contains a clear procedure for reviewing bills and preparing them for signature by the head of parliament.

Comments

[Alexander Romanov]

Parliament of Ukraine, probably now the most fun in the world What is not a day is a fight, not an hour is a scuffle

[dreamer]

From now begins Stocked popcorn ranked first row

[Kars]

Anything to do league would not work.

[танк]

+ one hundred pluses
There are more than enough problems in the country, and they behave like in a kindergarten

[Hysnik-Tsuzoy]

Quote: Kars

Anything to do league would not work.

Deputies are engaged exclusively in what they are paid for. The CIA paid a share in the Rada, and the deputies are discussing how a law that is not opposed to the West can.

[Kars]

Quote: Hysnik-Tsuzoy

Paid CIA share in Parliament

Urgently to the doctor

[Hysnik-Tsuzoy]

In modern Ukraine, corruption is even cleaner than in Russia, there even every place on the Maidan on strike days has a certain price, not to mention the Rada. You are our naive. :)

[Kars]

Quote: Hysnik-Tsuzoy

Ukraine’s corruption is even cleaner than in Russia,

Really? What do you mean in the subject?

Quote: Hysnik-Tsuzoy

Maidan in the days of strikes has a certain price, not to mention the Rada. You are our naive.

Yes, and your price is, you are our advanced.

But why the CIA? Not the FSB?

[urich]

Guys, do not forget, the Soviet leadership made an attempt not so long ago to consolidate the Russian language into the language of the USSR. It was only with the new constitution of the USSR in 1977 that an attempt was made to put the Russian language at the forefront. Before that, everyone spoke Russian, but no one accentuated which language was "more important". Nowadays very few people know that in fact the Russian language, even in the USSR, was not a "state" language in all the republics of the USSR. For example: In 1977, a new constitution of the USSR was adopted and new draft constitutions began to be prepared in the republics. In 1978, the Georgian newspaper Zarya Vostoka, published in Russian, published article 75 of the draft constitution of the Georgian SSR. The article contained a clear attempt to put Russian above other languages ​​used by the population of Georgia:
The Georgian SSR ensures the use of the Russian language in state and public bodies, cultural and other institutions and implements comprehensive care for its development.

In the Georgian SSR, on the basis of equality, free use is made in all bodies and institutions of Russian, as well as other languages ​​used by the population.

Any privileges or restrictions in the use of certain languages ​​are not allowed.

- the newspaper "Dawn of the East" according to the book "The History of Dissent in the USSR" L. Alekseeva
But in the current constitution of the 1937 of the year, the article on language was as follows:
The official language of the Georgian SSR is Georgian.
National minorities inhabiting the territory of the Georgian SSR are guaranteed the right to free development and use of their native language both in their cultural and state institutions.

156 Article. Constitution of the Georgian SSR 1937 of the year.

The events were triggered by the desire of the Georgian intelligentsia to maintain the Georgian language status of the official language of Georgia along with the Russian language, according to the fact that bilingualism and even multilingualism has already become standard, legally fixed practice in other national republics and autonomies of the USSR. For a long time, three Transcaucasian republics were an exception to the rule. Modification of the constitution in Azerbaijan did not provoke active protests, the situation in Armenia was more tense, but mass protests began only in Georgia, although articles of the constitution on the state languages ​​of the Transcaucasian republics were identical. The Supreme Council of Georgia, as well as the party apparatus of the republic, headed by E. A. Shevardnadze, cautiously but rather persistently supported the protests. As a result, Shevardnadze read to the audience the text of the 75 article of the new constitution of Soviet Georgia:

The official language of the Georgian Soviet Socialist Republic is Georgian.

The Georgian SSR carries out state care for the comprehensive development of the Georgian language and ensures its use in state and public bodies, cultural institutions, education and others.
In the Georgian SSR, the free use of Russian and other languages ​​used by the population in these bodies and institutions is ensured.

Any privileges or restrictions in the use of certain languages ​​are not allowed.

Constitution of the Georgian SSR 1978 "

I well remember how my grandfather, who was born in Dnepropetrovsk, Hero of the Soviet Union, not the last person in party work, said that they hadn’t started all this in vain (about planting the Russian language), it still comes around. In my family, no one ever spoke Ukrainian, always only spoke Russian (we lived in Khmelnitsky, where I was born), I personally understand the Ukrainian language, but I don’t know it spoken. At that time I did not understand my grandfather ... And now I understand very well what my grandfather was talking about.
The spring has been squeezed for so many years, it fired and the result of forcibly imposing a Russian at that time is now playing out in a negative vector.
There is no need to take away from the people the national component, which is the language. There are a lot of Ukrainians who want to be "real" Ukrainians and speak Ukrainian, treat Russians very well, and vice versa, some Russians in Ukraine, even without really knowing colloquial Ukrainian, pour mud on Russia.
What language to speak, this is the case of each person. Let in Ukraine they figure out what language they speak. I think that common sense will prevail, and still they will not force anyone to speak in a language that people don’t want to speak.
And further. Are there many Russians who know another language other than Russian? And in the former republics of the USSR, even not highly educated people can quite understandably explain themselves to us in Russian! Try to speak Tajik or Uzbek! Even Georgian! And now in Russia there are many people for whom Russian is not their native language, because the first word "mother" is spoken by many people in no way Russian! And to make sure that within Russia the Russians themselves know the Russian language and write without mistakes and be proud of their great and mighty, this is the task for Russians. PRIVATE BEARS posting on the forums about what all the bastards are there, clamping down on the Russian language should think about it!

[Hysnik-Tsuzoy]

What does the Constitution of the Georgian SSR have to do with it? See the Constitution of the USSR in 1936, there it is in black and white: "Russian is the language of interethnic communication"! Georgia and other republics, according to the Constitution, had the status of a state within a state and used national literary languages ​​along with Russian within their national formations.

[vsil1]

life is in full swing

[alexng]

It's like orange you need not love your people to engage in such garbage. Yes, for this, Europe will turn away from them. In Europe, in general, nationalism is a thing of the past and they despise it and condemn it in every way.

[White]

where does nationalism here we have the only real nationalist party is Freedom, which does not gain even 5%.
What our deputies are doing, of course, is a circus, and I consider all of them moral freaks, etc. BUT this law was adopted to the detriment of the Ukrainian language.
I believe that before the adoption of this law, the situation on the issue of languages ​​settled down sufficiently and there was no need to loosen it.

[dmitrijbyko]

I will repeat myself, but: "when considering the document, the regulations and the constitution of Ukraine were violated." The Party of Regions really committed violations during the adoption of the law, but: "The law is absolutely within the framework of the constitution, it clearly confirms: the only state language is Ukrainian, it is clearly written in line with the European Charter of Regional Minority Languages"

Quote: White

this law was adopted to the detriment of the Ukrainian language.

?

[White]

It is clear that the Russian language is stronger than ours (a huge country - a huge culture) and if you give such broad powers, then Ukrainian will be gradually supplanted from official use now, even in the first national, more and more broadcasts in Russian.
I’m neither a Russophobe nor a supporter of Ukrainization, but why should I be hurt, for example, a year ago I was looking for a children's book as a present for my niece, I wanted to run around the city floor in Ukrainian (I live in the Kiev region), another example before Yushchenko introduced mandatory dubbing in all films were in Russian cinema and there was no choice now if you don’t want to buy a lawsuit and watch in Russian and now the question is what to do after the adoption of the law ....

[Genry]

And since what times, has the Russian language suddenly become a foreign language in Ukraine? Something you distort and misinterpret. Territory Ukraine has always been a multicultural state, with different nationalities and, accordingly, languages.
The Ukrainian language in general, in terms of development, does not attract the role of the state. There is no developed medical, scientific and technical terminology in it.
Ukrainian, the Ukrainians themselves, call "mova", which humiliatingly leaves him without literature and writing. It's like limiting Russian to speech only.
"Modern" Ukrainian is a semi-synthetic language, with the wintering of Polonisms and the imposition of the "Canadian" English-language construction of phrases like: "I have to speak you"

[Don]

Quote: Genry

"Modern" Ukrainian is a semi-synthetic language

Totally agree with you.

Quote: Genry

scientific and technical terminology.

especially when you are trying to read some kind of SNiP or DBN.

[Don]

Quote: White

then Ukrainian will be gradually supplanted from official use

It cannot be forced out from official use. Officials are forced to speak the state language.

Quote: White

I was looking for a children's book as a present for my niece; I wanted to run around the city floor in Ukrainian

Well, who is to blame for not wanting to print in Ukrainian? Clean business. Buy more books in Ukrainian, so that it would be profitable for the publisher to produce books in Ukrainian.

Quote: White

Yushchenko introduced mandatory dubbing in films; all films were in Russian and there was no choice now if you don’t want to buy a lawsuit and watch in Russian and now the question is what should be done after the adoption of the law ....

And why should I watch films in Ukrainian (despite the fact that the dubbing was not always high-quality)? Because of half the Ukrainian-speaking population?

[basal]

This is not the first time I've heard that this law was adopted to the detriment of the Ukrainian language (though some people believe that it was adopted to the detriment of the Russian language). But this is an internal matter of Ukraine - what laws to adopt. I'm interested in something else. Russian is the mother tongue for about 50% of Ukrainian citizens - this is a well-known fact, although I really think more. How many citizens of Ukraine use the Russian language in everyday life? I have not seen such estimates, but I can assume that from 2/3 to 3/4 of the population. My assessment is based on the vision of your own Rada, where people often feel just physical relief when they give interviews in Russian, and the same tension when making official speeches in a mov. It is especially funny when an interview in Russian gives some sort of terry Svidomo. Well, it’s clear that Russian is your native language for you, why bother?
I am also informed that in Ukraine the popularity of TV and the press in Russian is an order of magnitude greater than in Ukrainian. Maybe this is not so? I do not know.

And now I have a question. And is it normal when in a country with a predominantly Russian-speaking population, the language itself is illegal? Is it normal when a tail steers a dog? The minority tells the majority how to communicate? Why did the Ukrainian language feel great in the Ukrainian SSR when the state was Russian, and why is it so sick now that such fear is for its fate?

I don’t want to argue with anyone, I just want to understand what is really happening, taking the opportunity that there are many residents of Ukraine.

[alexng]

And what can they forbid gibberish? Or maybe they themselves can forbid, with the help of the UN, to speak a language outside Ukraine, let them be encouraged to speak their native language in the shoes of those who are disadvantaged.

[bistrov.]

Quote: White

I think that before the adoption of this law, the situation on the issue of languages ​​has settled down enough and there was no need to loosen it

For 20 years in Ukraine, violent ukroinization has been carried out, even now, although it has taken a latent form. Under Yushchenko, for example, a circular was issued directly prohibiting even extra-curricular conversation in Russian in educational institutions. At the same time, according to various estimates, there are from 8 to 12 million only ethnic Russians in Ukraine and a lot of Ukrainians for whom Russian is their mother tongue, and we no longer live in a "cave" age and not under feudalism, in order to endure the infringement of the rights of Russian speakers. In addition, Ukraine is moving towards "Europe", has signed a language charter, but it will look good against the background of, for example, Switzerland, where the official languages ​​are already four European languages, or Sweden, or at least Finland, learn democracy, gentlemen, oh sorry, "gentlemen "Ukrainians, it's time to abandon nationalistic views, which are held not only by" freedom ", but also by all opposition parties, which organized this whole" circus "in the Ukrainian parliament, refusing to even consider the language bill. The situation with the languages ​​in Ukraine was already critical and the delay in resolving it would inevitably provoke the Russian-speakers to speak out for the separation of the Russian-speaking part of Ukraine from the Ukrainian one. The law on languages ​​will somewhat ease this tension, although it only consolidates the existing linguistic situation, the complete solution of the issue is the granting of the status of the state language to the Russian language, as in all civilized countries, and we will fight for this.

[Don]

Quote: White

BUT this law was adopted to the detriment of the Ukrainian language.

And how does it harm the Ukrainian language?

[White]

Can at least one Russian explain to me why when it comes to talking about Ukraine and Ukrainians, you are guided by the principles:
* If a Russian loves Russia, he is a patriot. If a Ukrainian loves Ukraine, he is a terry Bandera nationalist.
* If a Russian says "khokhol" - he kindly sneers at the representative of the fraternal people. If a Ukrainian says "mos..kal" - he thereby reveals his nationalist, anti-Russian essence.
* If a Russian rally - he defends his interests. If a Ukrainian is rallying, he will work off American money paid to him for anti-Russian purposes.
* If the Russian president communicates with the American president, he builds relations between the two countries. If the Ukrainian president communicates with the American president, they both weave an anti-Russian conspiracy.
* If Russian speaks Russian, it is simply Russian. If a Ukrainian speaks the Ukrainian language, he is Petliura unfinished.
* If the president of Russia declares pro-Russian slogans, this is a normal president. If the president of Ukraine declares pro-Ukrainian slogans - he is a pro-American and anti-Russian president.
* If the Russian government does not agree with the Ukrainian government - it defends national interests. If the Ukrainian government does not agree with the Russian government - finally Abarzeli.

In Ukraine, there is nothing to protect the Russian language from.

[dmitrijbyko]

All this comes from the anti-Russian policy that is carried out in Ukraine (including on the issue of language) and the statements of Ukrainian politicians in the media (especially the opposition). Ukrainian in Ukraine also does not need to be protected, no one encroaches on it. And they will still speak Russian.

[White]

I asked the Russians the Ukrainian media they don’t watch, but I watch the Russian and anti-Ukrainian propaganda blooms and smells there (I must admit that during EURO 2012 there were almost none) I still understood this at the time of Yushchenko but now. In general, the opinion of Russians can in no way be determined by the Ukrainian media and the statements of our politicians ORT and RTR very carefully filter what to show.

[Vasily79]

I don’t want to hint at anything. For the sake of interest, look at the money received from grants in your central Media

[Barrel]

anti-Russian policy in Ukraine

Is this "lawlessness" going on with the regionals?

Ukrainian in Ukraine also does not need to be protected

If ukr. lang not pursued in recent centuries 500, it was not necessary b.

And they will still speak Russian.

and why then this law?

[dmitrijbyko]

Quote: Barrel

If ukr. lang not pursued in recent centuries 500, it was not necessary b.

Persecuted by Poland, Austria-Hungary. Under the USSR, there were Ukrainian schools in Ukraine, Ukrainian (and not only Ukrainian) literature in Ukrainian was sold in bookstores, newspapers and magazines in Ukrainian were published.

[Barrel]

1917-1921 there was no time for languages, there was a war. Since 1923, Ukrainization began (to tell the truth, the words were twisted there, in general, it was not the literary language that was used, but the one closer to Russian), but this was in order to attract the sympathy of "small" peoples, this phenomenon was also in other Soviet republics.

In subsequent years, in particular since 1930, active resistance to Ukrainization increased in party circles, combined with the tendency to revise the decision of the XII Congress of the RCP (b) and recognize it as irrelevant. Many cultural, state or party figures who carried out Ukrainization were arrested, exiled or executed, and one of the main initiators of Ukrainization, the People's Commissar for the formation of the Ukrainian SSR in 1927-1933, N. Skrypnik, committed suicide.
After the war, the government of the Ukrainian SSR by its orders actually placed teachers of the Russian language and history (formed in the old "unifying" imperial principles), as well as teachers of Russian schools in a privileged position: raised the salary of teachers who taught in Russian, which put the unequal position of Ukrainian-speaking teachers; in addition, the parents of the students were allowed to choose which languages ​​their children would learn, as a result, many parents refused to study the Ukrainian language as unpromising and unnecessary in life. At the same time, the Ukrainian language received the status of an “optional”, optional subject in school education. In most technical universities of the Ukrainian SSR, teaching was conducted exclusively in Russian

Further thaw, a little settled down, but not for long.

In May in 1972, P. Shelest was removed from his post in Kiev on charges of "leniency" to Ukrainian nationalism and connivance to economic "localism." Vladimir Shcherbitsky becomes the first secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Ukraine. As a result of his activities, Russification of Ukraine intensified, and persecution of leaders of the Ukrainian resistance movement began. Vladimir Shcherbitsky resigned as First Secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Ukraine in 1989.

Russification in the USSR? No, they didn’t hear, because we watch a TV set and we trust the authorities.

[bistrov.]

Quote: Barrel

As a result of his activities, Russification of Ukraine intensified,

What kind of Russification are we talking about during the time of Shcherbytsky, when he himself, speaking personally at various meetings, spoke only in Ukrainian, and of the two TV channels, one was completely Ukrainian., A lot of books and newspapers were published in the Ukrainian language, in particular, in each region and district there was own Ukrainian newspaper. And who are these "leaders of the Ukrainian resistance movement"? It was in France, during the German occupation, that there was a movement of resistance to the occupiers. Probably you mean "Ukrainian nationalists"? Then just say so. Ukraine was not an occupied country.

[Barrel]

Returning from Moscow, Scherbitsky assembled the Politburo:

- Nationalist, Zionist tendencies increased in the Ukrainian SSR, for which our leadership was criticized reasonably and seriously. Our "line" in these matters is wrong. Under the pretext of "democratization", a struggle was waged against Russification. Calls began to change the political system, the struggle for an independent Ukraine. But Beijing stands for independent Ukraine! .. There is a revision of the past, praise of antiquity, attempts to rehabilitate Mazepa, and imagine Bohdan Khmelnitsky as a traitor. An indication of the secretary of our Central Committee at a meeting of secretaries of regional committees in Kharkov on teaching in universities only in the Ukrainian language was recognized ideologically harmful. And the publication of Pushkin in Ukrainian, the broadcast of football in Ukrainian! This spread after Shelest’s politically vague speech at the writers ’congress:“ Take care of Ukraine’s Move ”. Ukrainian nationalism cannot be underestimated. It is necessary to raise the ideological struggle, to make it sharp, offensive, substantive.

[basal]

Returning from Moscow, Shcherbitsky gathered a political bureau

Man, you should study better at school! What political bureau in the USSR? Do you have megalomania?

But Beijing stands for independent Ukraine! ..

Well, for sure - megalomania!

[saturn.mmm]

Quote: dmitrijbyko

Under the USSR, there were Ukrainian schools in Ukraine, Ukrainian (and not only Ukrainian) literature in Ukrainian was sold in bookstores, newspapers and magazines in Ukrainian were published.

I wouldn’t speak for Ukraine in the Soviet Union, I can’t say for Ukraine, but I’ll say about the BSSR when I was in kindergarten and the teacher constantly corrected me from Belarusian to Russian. The result is easy to imagine.
But I believe that the granting of official status to the Russian language in some regions is not a disaster for Ukraine.

[saturn.mmm]

For example, I like Shevchenko’s poems.

[mechanic33]

Quote: White

White

Andrei, look deeper .... Based on an ancient saying - we were divided and dominated ... See how, with impunity and the absence of competitors, the Western democracies hegemony ... They filled the world with blood and dollars ... In order not to play by the rules of others for us , we must find strength in ourselves, and forgetting about insults, begin to create a common space for us. The process of various integration of states dissatisfied with the colonial policies of the West has already begun ...

[dmitrijbyko]

Keep!

[Rowicz]

A small question ... what Ukrainian? Surzhik or?

[White]

that’s how he appeared because people wanted to speak Ukrainian (as regionals like to say Russian - soaked in mother’s milk), and everything around was in Russian so they mixed up, I repent myself so I speak but try to fix it.

[klimpopov]

100500 pluses to you !!! It’s also not clear to us that they say on surzhik (Kuban) can we recognize him as the second state and join Ukraine? But my western Ukrainian is not to understand. So what language is official in Ukraine anyway?

[White]

The one on which they fall at school, which is incomprehensible here.

[klimpopov]

And which one at school. Those who use Surge in speech, understand it?

[dmitrijbyko]

They understand how. I studied at a Russian school in the "Russian-speaking" region, but Ukrainian is my second native. I can speak, read and write in Russian and Ukrainian. For me, there is no difference between them.

[klimpopov]

in Ukraine, he traveled to Mariupol and Nikolaev and another two weeks on a business trip. Locals were amazed that almost freely began to communicate on surzhik. But someone proved to me that these are two different languages. And those who from the Kuban can not understand the real Ukrainian ..

[MILITARY RF]

want ukroisky so balakoyte on it ..... most importantly, our strategic relationship is not a port ....

[dmitrijbyko]

Quote: MILITARY RF

Ukroisky so balakoyte

Ukrainian, so balakayte (Ukrainian, so balakayte)
Do not know how to, then do not distort words.
And what is your flag, Military RF? It's not good to hide

[alexg]

In Finland, if my memory serves me right, about 5-8% of Swedes live and Swedish is the second state language in Finland. And no one there says that someone infringes on someone, that Finnish needs to be protected, etc. People live, work and solve real problems that really exist!

[Barrel]

They have a different story, do not compare the microphone with the tank.

[alexg]

Barrel,
What does another story mean? They always lived next to each other and by the way, they didn’t fight too feebly. However, for some reason they have enough mind to live in peace and harmony now !!! And so just for thought, in some parts of Finland in schools, the Russian language is mandatory for studying, because economical ties with Russia make you think about the future !!! And again, no one screams, save the Russians go.

[Barrel]

The Swedes did not impose their language on them and did not try to assimilate them.
I am in favor of living in peace, but how is this possible when they spit in your face, saying that your language and people do not exist, and pull the "hand of friendship" at the same time?

[alexg]

Barrel,
* The Swedes did not impose their language on them and did not try to assimilate them. *
Even as forced !!! But this is not the point. I think that Russia and Ukraine have much more reasons for friendship, and all these tantrums on national topics, in order to keep people for such a fool, while they fill their pockets.

[Barrel]

Even if they tried, it didn’t work out for them (maybe because of the short time, maybe their rulers are not so tactful, but not important). 90% speak Finnish there, and therefore Swedish does not bother them.

[darkman70]

Finland has been part of Sweden for many centuries. And Swedish was the only official language there. Finnish received state status and began to develop only after Finland became part of Russia. But for some reason, the Finns had the wisdom after gaining independence to make the Swedish language official, and I have never heard that there would be any friction between the Finns and the Swedes about this.

[alexg]

Exactly! And we have a favorite thing to shout * b * - * crest * and so on. [
darkman70,

[Vitaly PV]

correctly, nothing is being done to improve conditions in the country. Spun this carousel with tongues, here's the appearance of the case. It’s not for nothing that they say that power exists as long as people believe in it, that’s why they often try to flash on TV, in newspapers and on the Internet,
And all this mess with languages ​​is just a soap opera)). Our authorities are not managers, they are clowns designed to entertain the crowd!

[dmitrijbyko]

"All of them were introduced by the opposition, which believes that the regulations and the constitution of Ukraine were violated during the consideration of the document." PR really committed violations during the adoption of the law, but: "The law is absolutely within the framework of the constitution, it clearly confirms: the only state language is Ukrainian, it is clearly written in line with the European Charter of Regional Minority Languages"

[White]

The charter is written to protect endangered languages ​​in your Russian.

[Orey]

Quote: White

The charter is written to protect endangered languages ​​in your Russian.

+100500

[DIMS]

According to the text,

some of which are endangered

You would have read the document before writing something

[Genry]

From the preamble: "Considering that the protection of the historical regional or minority languages ​​of Europe, some of which are in danger of possible extinction, contributes to the maintenance and development of the cultural wealth and traditions of Europe;"

Who blurted out that it was only about endangered languages?
As always, lies and the rejection of the basic meaning of the charter by nationalists.

[dmitrijbyko]

The charter is written to protect the languages ​​of national minorities. Read the Charter and the Draft Law. They are on the Internet! And in the project, besides Russian, 15 languages nat. minorities !!!

[Barrel]

The fact of the matter is that the remaining 14 languages ​​do not interfere with the popularization of Ukrainian!

[Don]

Quote: White

The charter is written to protect endangered languages ​​in your Russian.

Nothing like this. You have not read the law, not the charter itself.
Regional language - a language or languages ​​whose official status (s) is enshrined in the legislation of one or more administrative-territorial entities: federal districts, provinces, territories, states, municipalities, regions, villages or other administratively established regions of the state, along with the official / official language , which operates in the entire state. Example - German as a regional language in the province of South Tyrol, Italy.
European Charter for Regional Languages ​​and National Minorities:
“Regional and small languages” must meet the following criteria:
1. traditionally used in a certain territory by citizens of a given state who are a national minority in the territory of that state; and
2. have significant differences from the official / official language
German as a regional language in the province of South Tyrol, Italy;
Hungarian as a regional language in the states of Romania and Slovakia, where it is recognized as regional in municipalities, where the proportion of Hungarians exceeds 20% of the population (the original bar of 10% has not been ratified in the parliament of the republic).
French in the officially English-speaking province of Ontario, Canada, where it is recognized as the regional language in municipalities with a concentration of French-Ontars 10% or more (or 5.000 or more).

[Barrel]

The law itself does not violate the Constitution, but the method of its adoption goes beyond the bounds of decency.

[Genry]

The photograph in the article shows the "decency" of the fighters against the Russian language.!

[Barrel]

Ehh .. Such are the cases that the deputies are inviolable, and they can even kill each other - no one has the right to do anything. Let Vitalik take his brother to the party and together they put things in order there, and let Sheva kill everyone with his feet, since he went there)

[dmitrijbyko]

Nobody argues about this. Violations had a fact!

[patriot2]

The Slavs, whom they elected in the Rada, they adopt the law (s), for example, on language. I don’t want to say anything bad, but always, when I come to Ukraine, when I listen to the debate in the Rada (for more than 15 years in a row) I have conflicting feelings. Litvin is generally sorry, he has a very difficult time.
In general, "the show continues" ...

[Barrel]

Litvin is the six of Yanukovych. His whole party (19 people) voted FOR.

[Genry]

And when Litvin was not six ?.
In 2004, he quietly opened the hall (essentially a meeting) of VekhRada where Yushchenko took the oath of the president until the announcement of the election results. And after that there was another third round of voting with twisting of the results.

[Knowing]

It seems to me what the majority speaks of and should be made official. This is more comfortable.

[bremest]

Perhaps I will be minus agents of the CIA and Ukrainophiles, but I’ll say ....
A certain pseudo-professor Hrushevsky was involved in the final creation and design of the Ukrainian language, who conducted his work with the money of the Austrian General Staff. It is noteworthy that when Grushevsky finished his work, he expressed the following thought: - "ugly, for that it is not in Russian" .........
Here is a lot about this pseudo-professor ....
http://rusk.ru/st.php?idar=708126


To this we must add a quote from Bulgakov's novel "The White Guard" - "- He is a bastard," Turbin continued with hatred, "after all, he himself does not speak this damned language! Eh? (* 209) I asked this channel the day before yesterday, Dr. Kuritsky, if you please see, he has forgotten how to speak Russian since November last year. There was Kuritsky, but now Kuritsky ... So I ask: how is "cat" in Ukrainian? He answers: "Whale." I ask: "And how is a whale ? "And he stopped, goggled his eyes and was silent. And now he does not bow.
Nikolka burst out laughing and said:
- They cannot have the word "whale", because there are no whales in Ukraine, and there is a lot of everything in Russia. There are whales in the White Sea ... "

In modern history, during the troubles of the 90s, in the Krasnodar Territory, our contemporary Mr. Tkachev expressed a desire to create Kozakia and his own language - balakan .......
All this just fits into the Anglo-Saxon plans for the dismemberment of Russia.
To our great regret, our former President Medvedev made great efforts to clog the Russian language with foreign words. All this is not from a great mind ........ Apparently, it is precisely for this that he is so loved in the West .......
We need powerful information propaganda, we need to deal with the clogging of the Russian language.

I would like to draw attention to the phrase of Otto von Bismarck: "The power of Russia can only be undermined by the separation of Ukraine from it ... it is necessary not only to tear away, but also to oppose Ukraine to Russia. To do this, you only need to find and raise traitors among the elite and with their help change the self-consciousness of one part of a great people to such an extent that he will hate everything Russian, hate his own kind, without realizing it. Everything else is a matter of time. "

What we see today in Ukraine, hatred elevated to the rank of state policy .... Bismarck's dreams come true.
Today it is important to begin to get rid of those who hate the Russian language. Let them go to Canada, Europe, the USA, let them flush toilets, engage in prostitution, inject themselves, go into oblivion, and here we need to create conditions for the life and work of those who consider Kievan Rus to be their Motherland, who respect the Russian language and pursue a policy of respect for our common history.

[White]

That is, in your opinion, the Ukrainian language appeared only at the beginning of the XNUMXth century, I am not special in literature, but even I know that for example Taras Shevchenko lived a hundred years earlier and his language was quite modern Ukrainian

[klimpopov]

Well, again, you reduce everything to language. The man says that this is all artificially spurred manipulations with the language, the artificially created abyss between peoples.
It's just that many on the forum forget that a generation of people who were born in Ukraine and the Russian Federation has already grown up who were brainwashed in schools (maybe not everyone) and this abyss in culture has become quite real. The further these contradictions are fueled, the more the moat will be dug between Ukraine and Russia - so why show extremism? Now there is not a single issue resolved by Ukraine and Russia within the framework of ethics, all this is accompanied by vile attacks from behind the shoulder of the "official" government in one direction or the other. What is profitable for Russia? Or maybe Ukraine?
There are indeed contradictions, as in territorial issues, but they should not be taken out like dirty linen in public, that is, for the rest of the world everything should be fine: we, our brothers, will figure it out ourselves. Then they will begin to respect and agree to work out. Exclusively my opinion. Criticize, I am for communication.

[White]

I was born in 1985, you can figure out when I was in school and we didn’t have any brainwashing.
I’m trying to convey to everyone that Ukraine has a lot of people who want to speak Ukrainian but for some reason surround us with Russian radio, television, press, etc.
But it’s precisely in the simple desire of the individual that politics interferes, dragging the relationship with Russia here.

[klimpopov]

You studied at the same time when I, and for me, Ukraine was already an independent state (at a conscious age).

as well as in Ukraine there are many people who want to speak Russian, as well as in the Stavropol Territory there are a lot of people who want to speak, attention:
Russian
Armenian
Karachay
Circassian
Dagestan (about 50 dialects)
Chechen
Ingush
there is also a southern dialect (surzhik)
And also in Russia LLC, there are a lot of languages ​​and all are original ...
But somehow everything around us is Russian-speaking, although some peoples are already along the way, more Russian.
[quote] But it’s precisely in the simple desire of the individual that politics interferes, dragging here the relationship with Russia. / quote]
But, excuse me, on which one?

[iSpoiler]

Listen, well, you poor one want to speak Ukrainian .... ??
But you don’t write a chezh .. ???? ... Ah ... ???
We would like to say ...
Here we have Chechnya, Dagestan, Tuvans, Yakuts, Koryaki and hell, too, knows a lope of a people who in Russian are either boom-boom ...
I know for sure that he served in the army for 2 years from 2004 to 2006 ..
Nobody condemns them ...
Who wants to talk, talk without asking ..
The only cant of your RADA is how this law was adopted, as I understand it in a quiet little noise on their own ...
Yes, and you damn it almost announces genocide here ...

[Don]

Quote: White

in Ukraine there are a lot of people who want to speak Ukrainian but for some reason surround us with Russian radio, television, press, etc.

Most TV channels broadcast news, advertisements and television shows in Ukrainian. The press in central and western Ukraine in Ukrainian. There are many sites in Ukrainian or where you can choose the language of the site, for example, the site of the Shakhtar football club in 4 languages, Russian, Ukrainian, English and Portuguese. The radio is the same. KISS FM is completely in Ukrainian. In western Ukraine you will not find a radio in Russian.
So maybe it’s you who surround us with your mova and impose it on us ?! The Russian language in Ukraine must be protected, not Ukrainian.

[Genry]

Not a language but a mov, i.e. colloquial dialect of the uneducated rural population.

[bremest]

There was talk, indulgence, there was a surzhik, but the ending, but was framed as a language in the early 20th century.

About language "Taras Shevchenko has an exceptional role in the formation of Ukrainian national ideology. His poetic language, based on the local peasant dialect with the addition of elements of Church Slavonic, the language of the Cossack chronicles and new words formed by Shevchenko himself, was distinguished by naturalness and euphony."

Please do not forget that T. Shevchenko was in Polish slavery by Vasily Engelhardt, who lived in Budishche. Apparently this greatly affected the psychology of T. Shevchenko. He was bought out of slavery by Russian nobles, and he hated all his life those who gave him freedom. Here you have the psychology of a pig, or as they say about such Poles - BE4lo
Stupid woman - Princess Repnina wanted him to buy the sisters, but Shevchenko found the best use for that money: he squandered it in a brothel.
Here you have a hero .........

[Barrel]

How many different chernukha I heard about Shevchenko, but this is something new. To insult, unreasonably, a great man - you need to be a brainless amoeba.

He was a serf in the Russian Empire and hated those slave owners who mocked both the Ukrainian and Russian peoples.

[volcano]

And can I also consider this my Homeland.
I'm really not from Kievan Rus, but from Vladimir-Suzdal.

Do not measure the homeland in Russia. There were many different Rus.
But we are all Russian people.

[starpom]

Guys from Ukraine, but please tell me what percentage of the population knows and speaks the correct Ukrainian language, and does not carry gibberish on surzhik

[bremest]

When I lived in Rivne, and this is Western Ukraine, they spoke beautiful Russian, and they only spoke surzhik in the private sector and Basovkut (the outskirts of the city). Currently, Internet forums have begun to tend to speak broken Russian, presenting it as a fashionable style of communication. It was with such a mess that the surzhik began ....

[White]

With all the efforts that were made to eradicate the Ukrainian language, the fact that it has been preserved even though so well

• 1769 rik - seen the order of the Ukrainian church about the viluchennya at the population of Ukraine, Ukrainian letters and Ukrainian texts from church books.
• 1775рік - based on Zaporizhzhya Sich and closed Ukrainian schools under regimental Cossack offices.
• 1862 Rіk - closed Ukrainian national schools, as well as a postal institution, they were able to see the Ukrainian language schools.
• 1863 rіk - Decree of the Russian Minister of Economy Valuyev on the fence of the view of books in Ukrainian.
• 1884 rik - closed all Ukrainian theaters.
• 1914 Rik - the Russian Tsar Mikola ІІ lіkvіdovuє Ukrainian Presu - newspapers and magazines.
• 1938 rіk - a stalinsky detachment of a kind є to a ruling on the obov'yazkova vivchenny rossiyskii movi, chim piddina є korinnya ukrainski movi.
• 1989 rіk - seen the decree, yak zakrіpila rosіsku movu yak ofitsіynu zagalnogozavna, what is the ukrainian movu bulo vidsunuto to another plan.

[Horla]

The deputies are ours, that the Ukrainians are waiting for the arrival of Stalin, and the nations, that the Russian, that the Ukrainian have always been and will be brothers

[Barrel]

The Ukrainian language in Ukraine is a purely Ukrainian problem. Why bring this to the Russian forum? So that it was not "boring"?

[starpom]

Then, that many have roots - in Ukraine. (My parents, for example, continue to live in Sevastopol)

[Barrel]

And what, Bendery’s people beat them with sticks for speaking Russian?

[starpom]

Actually, Bendera's people are being chased there when they, on the orders of the "party and government", go to dilute the Russian "mova"

[Genry]

You have a problem, but here is the news from Ukraine, as well as news from America, Turkey, etc.

[Barrel]

Actually, Bendera's people are being chased there when they, on the orders of the "party and government", go to dilute the Russian "mov" wink

So they do not experience problems with the language. And why then the language law?

[starpom]

The fact of the matter is that all of Sevastopol (with rare exceptions) speaks and writes in Russian. And all official offices are in Ukrainian (at least they write, they speak too little). And this creates a lot of problems.

[Barrel]

Learn Ukrainian if you want to live in Ukraine. Those who live in the States learn English and do not make complaints. Why should we do everything to make you comfortable, to the detriment of ourselves? Of course, I am for fraternity and equality, but if the Russians want to immigrate to England, they learn English, and if to Ukraine, do you need to learn anything? Why did I learn Russian for some reason?

[starpom]

In Sevastopol, they never learned the Ukrainian language (optional in several schools). And none of the Sevastopol residents during the USSR considered themselves living on the territory of Ukraine.

[Barrel]

Well, that’s the trouble. Try to open Ukrainian schools, instead of going to unpaid Russian rallies at which the authorities are at a loss, or do you think that 9 people gathered for the rally and they will give Crimea or stop holding joint exercises with NATO? But you can open a Ukrainian school - it is in the competence of local authorities.

[Don]

Quote: Barrel

But you can open a Ukrainian school - it is in the competence of local authorities.

Why open a purely Ukrainian school in an area where 90% of the population speaks Russian?

[starpom]

"Barrel UA Today, 16:00 ↑
I learned Russian for some reason? "
And you learned Russian, because in time you realized that without it you can’t go anywhere (even in Ukraine). By the way, try reading technical documentation written in Ukrainian.

[Barrel]

I taught him (Russian) at school, when I still did not understand anything.
And the technical documentation, fortunately, I can read calmly, since I studied at a Ukrainian-language school, and studied all technical sciences with Ukrainian terminology, and now, when they are supposed to speak Russian at the university, it is difficult to translate into Russian.

[Don]

Quote: Barrel

but if the Russians want to immigrate to England, they learn English

What does immigration have to do with it? The Russians settled the Black Sea region, Crimea, Donbass immediately after the conquest of these lands by the Russian Empire from the Ottoman Empire. And if historically it turned out that these lands fell into Ukraine, then on what basis should they learn the Ukrainian language? They are full citizens of Ukraine, but speak Russian. A striking example of Quebec in Canada, South Tyrol in Italy.

[bremest]

I agree with you, but it’s better to talk peacefully than to fight each other for the joy of the Anglo-Saxons .........

[Barrel]

You can't talk peacefully with people like you. People like you are the very bone of contention. You cannot return Ukraine to the Soviet or Russian empires, as part of the Russian people, and your "statements" about our culture and language certainly do not bring good relations, so it turns out that you yourself provoke us to get closer to the Yankees, but I myself do not want to ... But where else to look for protection from such attacks?

[Charon]

White Today, 12: 19
Can at least one Russian explain to me why when it comes to talking about Ukraine and Ukrainians, you are guided by the principles:
1. If a Russian loves Russia, he is a patriot. If a Ukrainian loves Ukraine, he is a terry Bandera nationalist.
2. If a Russian says "khokhol" - he kindly mocks a representative of the fraternal people. If a Ukrainian says "mos..kal" - he thereby reveals his nationalist, anti-Russian essence.
3. If a Russian rally - he defends his interests. If a Ukrainian is rallying, he will work off American money paid to him for anti-Russian purposes.
4. If the Russian president communicates with the American president, he builds relations between the two countries. If the Ukrainian president communicates with the American president, they both weave an anti-Russian conspiracy.
5. If Russian speaks Russian, it is simply Russian. If a Ukrainian speaks the Ukrainian language, he is Petliura unfinished.
6. If the president of Russia declares pro-Russian slogans, this is a normal president. If the president of Ukraine declares pro-Ukrainian slogans - he is a pro-American and anti-Russian president.
7. If the Russian government does not agree with the Ukrainian government - it defends national interests. If the Ukrainian government does not agree with the Russian government - finally Abarzeli.

I will explain if no one is against.
Immediately make a reservation, the replicas do not apply to all Ukrainians, but only to “Professional Ukrainians”.
1. Love for Russia is directed inward. Love for Ukraine is demonstratively outside. For in recent years, love for Ukraine has been the hatred of Russia cultivated by the authorities in order to quarrel the peoples.
2. "M-l" is no longer spoken. This is a milestone long gone. Now the “Professional Ukrainians”, who are experiencing a crisis in the genre, use other expressions. But I will not repeat these words. Self-censorship.
3. If a Russian (Is it Russian?) has recently been holding a rally, therefore, the organizers (persons of democratic nationality) have been given new grants.
4. In the first case (no matter what they say about this in Ukraine), this is a dialogue of approximately equal sizes. In the case of Ukraine - the report of the elite in vassal relations. I will add for those who know: Putin is in Rokosh.
5. For me, the Ukrainian language is the one in which the Cossacks wrote a letter to the Turkish Sultan. The current Polonized Surzhik is an artificial newspeak that causes bewilderment.
6. In conditions when Ukraine is forcibly opposed by its authorities to Russia, and this is part of the foreign policy of the elite, it cannot be otherwise.
7. If the Libyan or Yugoslav government does not agree with the US government, it is bombed. Feel the difference and greyhound only in a safe direction.

[Barrel]

For me, the Ukrainian language is the one in which the letter was written to the Turkish Sultan of Zaporozhets. The current polonized surzhik is an artificial newspeak that causes bewilderment.

It is one and the same language. The original text does not need translation for Ukrainians, and even today does not contain archaisms.

[Charon]

The original text does not need to be translated into Russian. A surzhik needs. To me, Kotlyarevsky in the original is more understandable than modern Ukrainian. I don’t understand Polish words.

[Barrel]

Kotlyarevsky wrote in the Poltava dialect of Ukrainian, which is considered a literary language (that is, it is studied in schools in language lessons), and perhaps you could meet an oversaturation of Polonisms in Western Ukrainian dialects, but these are just dialects, so today's Ukrainian is not enough how it differs from the language of the "Aeneid".
And the saturation of polonisms is a natural phenomenon, the result of a long planting of Polish in the lands of western Ukraine, the same as surzhik is the result of planting the Russian language in the east.

[Charon]

So they would leave the literary instead of spreading polonisms to those territories that have been in the Russian staff for more than 400 years.
And no one specifically planted the Russian language, no matter how today they try to prove the opposite. Rather, Ukrainian commissars planted in dusty helmets in the 20s.

[Barrel]

Again in a circle ..

Quote: White

• 1769 rik - seen the order of the Ukrainian church about the viluchennya at the population of Ukraine, Ukrainian letters and Ukrainian texts from church books.
• 1775рік - based on Zaporizhzhya Sich and closed Ukrainian schools under regimental Cossack offices.
• 1862 Rіk - closed Ukrainian national schools, as well as a postal institution, they were able to see the Ukrainian language schools.
• 1863 rіk - Decree of the Russian Minister of Economy Valuyev on the fence of the view of books in Ukrainian.
• 1884 rik - closed all Ukrainian theaters.
• 1914 Rik - the Russian Tsar Mikola ІІ lіkvіdovuє Ukrainian Presu - newspapers and magazines.
• 1938 rіk - a stalinsky detachment of a kind є to a ruling on the obov'yazkova vivchenny rossiyskii movi, chim piddina є korinnya ukrainski movi.
• 1989 rіk - seen the decree, yak zakrіpila rosіsku movu yak ofitsіynu zagalnogozavna, what is the ukrainian movu bulo vidsunuto to another plan.

As you can see, the first date is 1769

[Charon]

Half of the evidence is of dubious origin due to obvious market conditions, half are natural.
-After Kyuchuk-Karnadzhi peace in 1774. the freemen has disappeared. Cossacks became an irregular formation of the Russian Empire. How to communicate with the office, if the clerks do not know enough Russian?
-in 38, the excesses of the 20s were corrected.
And so I can say for each of the points, but I do not want to start a big discussion. (round).
And King Mikola just killed on the spot. In the Baltics, his name is probably written by Romanovs?

[Barrel]

on account of "] opportunism": I once met one opponent who called all my arguments a substitution, even "The Word about Igor's Regiment" .. This is the easiest way to say that this is a set-up or tricks of foreign special services ... Historical documents, whose age was established by scientists and not by special services - this is an obvious opportunism .. okay

Destruction of Sichi: the Cossacks were fighters for independence, i.e. separatists in the eyes of Catherine, which means their destruction greatly facilitated the further Russification and assimilation of the population. By that time, Ukrina had been under the "wing" of Russia for over 100 years, why did the above processes begin only after that date?

Ukrainization stopped in the 30th year. What's in your concept of "kinks"?

in Ukrainian, his name sounds like [Mykola] - this is the Ukrainian analogue of the Russian name Nikolay. Since in English - nickname, nicholas

[Charon]

I know the story very well. I don’t remember all the historical dates, but I know that historical documents do not really exist (fakes), and many historians are charlatans.

Cossacks have never been fighters for independence. These were land pirates such as the inhabitants of Tortuga or Port Royal in the Caribbean.
Having entered the structure of Russia, they lost the material basis and the meaning of their existence. And although they were no longer the Cossacks that under Bogdan, the Empress considered it good to find a business for them. Thanks to this, they did not dissolve among the rural population, but became a military estate in the Kuban. It turned out to be good for them. They turned from marginalized and lawless to bright builders of a common empire.
The excesses of the 20s, organized by the Lenin Guard and terminated by Stalin, consisted in banning the Russian language and translating office work into Ukrainian. Details can find yourself.
As for Mykola, it sounds painfully too small. It’s like calling St. Vladimir Vovan. It seems correct, but it sounds derogatory. And in order to speak derogatoryly about the emperor, one must have at least a quarter of his size. Otherwise, the inferiority complex is too pronounced.

[Barrel]

Since you are such a connoisseur of history, please tell me who raised the uproar at the end of the 16th, beginning of the 17th centuries? Who were those crowds of people following Bogdan in 1648-1654? Who was talking out more liberties for his people from the Poles and Russians?

Kinks ..

Many cultural, state or party figures who carried out Ukrainization were arrested, exiled or executed, and one of the main initiators of Ukrainization, the People's Commissar of the Ukrainian SSR in 1927-1933 N. Skrypnik committed suicide

And the writers? Have you heard about the "Revival by firing squad"? (Rozstrilane vidrodzhennya) How many writers and poets were shot or sent to the camps because of the "OVERBURNS" ??! And Khvylovy already shot himself out of love for the Soviet regime and its BENDINGS!

that historical documents do not actually exist (fakes), and many historians are charlatans.

Then what arguments can you use to confirm your words, since all the documents are fakes? I can also say that your sources are fake, because I don’t have you any evidence that this is so.

As for Mykola, it sounds painfully too small. It seems correct, but it sounds derogatory.

This can be regarded as a neglect of our language. Mykola is the full name. For the Americans, it's Mike; for the French, Nicholas, etc.

[Barrel]

Kinks ..

Many cultural, state or party figures who carried out Ukrainization were arrested, exiled or executed, and one of the main initiators of Ukrainization, the People's Commissar of the Ukrainian SSR in 1927-1933 N. Skrypnik committed suicide

And the writers? Have you heard about the "Revival by firing squad"? (Rozstrilane vidrodzhennya) How many writers and poets were shot or sent to the camps because of the "OVERBURNS" ??! And Khvylovy already shot himself out of love for the Soviet regime and its BENDINGS!

[Charon]

I could tell a lot about the uprising. But the forum is not that format. Here it is necessary to tell in great detail.
About the excesses, you yourself said everything well. There is nothing to add.
Historical documents are different. There are chronicles whose authenticity is disputed and there are, for example, reports of military commissaries, discharge books, etc. But historians do not often turn to such small sources, preferring to retell each other. Therefore, finding the truth is not easy.
You can regard the attitude to the language as you like. But for the Russian ear, the word Mykola sounds simple. And it’s not customary for us to change the names of sovereigns in our own way. For example, Cosimo Medici never called Kuzma.

[Don]

Quote: Barrel

after Bogdan in 1648-1654? Whoever secured more liberties for his people from the Poles

Not for his people but for the Cossacks.

[Barrel]

Not for his people but for the Cossacks.

In 1648, Khmelnitsky freed the peasants from the Polish landowners. From then until the destruction of the Sich (1775), all the peasants were independent, while the neighboring Russian lands were still in the 16th century. were closed.
What else do the villagers need? Distribution of land and other minor problems involved local foremen and centurions, and defended all this Cossack registry army. So it turns out that the more rights and powers of Cossack foremen and ordinary Cossacks, the better for the people.

[Charon]

And where is the registry army? What does it have to do with the Cossacks? You are confusing something, dear.

[Barrel]

The Cossacks are an irregular force; they lived separately from the hetman and did not obey him. In Sich, the main one is the kosh chieftain. And the hetman army of the late 17th and early 18th centuries is a register.

[Charon]

Here I am about that.

[White]

I give up probably nobody understood me like that. Arividerchi.

[klimpopov]

You are very difficult to understand without arguments and detailed answers.
Well, goodbye, do not hold evil.
Come will be happy.

[Barrel]

To understand you, you just need to study the history of Ukraine and live here, so it’s not surprising.

[DimYang]

I’ll just say that the UKRAINE project is a project of AUSTRIA-HUNGARY, and in general WEST. I will not prove anything to anyone. If you consider yourself smart and educated, then rummage in the literature (it is, not yet ditched) Do not blame me for being against or for someone else. In general, I am for historical justice. You can shout that Ukrainians are a nationality, but after thinking a little and approaching without bias, you begin to understand that this is not so. As a nation, YES, as a nationality, NO. Do not be fooled at least by yourself. At least it's stupid. You can love your homeland without shouting at every step in the style of WE ARE SUCH, AND YOU ARE SUCH. Correctly noticed, we have a common history and we won’t get anywhere from this. And the state borders between us is a temporary thing, by the way harmful for us all.

[Genry]

I want to add another, unnoticed by many, war in Ukraine. This is a war with the Russian Orthodox Church in favor of the Catholic Church. After all, almost all "svidomye" fighters for Ukrainianity consider themselves to be Catholic.

[dmitrijbyko]

Quote: dimyan

project UKRAINE is a project of AUSTRIA-HUNGARY, and in general WEST

Read "History of Ukraine" by Orestes Subtelny, everything is described in detail who oppressed and oppressed.

[DimYang]

Orest Subtelny
Born -17 grass 1942 (68 rokіv)
metro Krakiv, Poland
Bulkhood - Canada Canada
Missing robots - Mortgage Harvard University, Hamilton University, York University
Alma Mater Temple University, Harvard University

At the time - professor, academician
Introductions - Doctor of Philosophy and History
Science. Kerivnik Olexander Ogloblin

Vidomy at zyazku z: historian, author of the book "Ukraine: History"

Primitki - Member of the National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine, Honorary Doctor of the Diplomatic Academy of Ukraine at the Ministry of Health of Ukraine

A typical agent of influence, most likely even a masson. I told you, look again. If you do not want to search and at least look not biased, just say so.

[Barrel]

Well, yes, Doc Emmett Brown's campaign (from back to the future) sent Bogdan Khmelnitsky at a time when Austria-Hungary did not exist, in order to start the project "Ukraine" even earlier.

[starpom]

Quote: dimyan

And the state borders between us is a temporary thing, by the way harmful for us all.

It’s hard for the tops to understand, for them it’s such a feeding trough.

[Barrel]

The border is needed in order to protect those inside it from the invasions of those outside.
If you are all for the brotherhood and friendship of peoples, then it is enough to simply show respect for our culture and language, but we respect your language and culture, we do not require the status of a regional language for our largest diaspora in Russia.

[klimpopov]

Again 25.
First

Our largest diaspora in Russia is the status of a regional language.

Where does this information come from? Above, there is a comment by a respected person about the status of languages ​​in the Union, believe me in Russia, which has practically not changed.
Second

it’s easy enough to show respect for our culture and language, but we respect your language and culture,

Who shows disrespect for your culture and language at the state level or on this branch? Have you tried to show respect for your culture yourself?
The third

The border is needed in order to protect those inside it from the invasions of those outside.

So are you afraid of terrible and evil Russia? Or Belarus? Or who else is there?

[Barrel]

Who shows disrespect for your culture and language at the state level or on this branch? Have you tried to show respect for your culture yourself?

http://censor.net.ua/video_news/211449/rossiyiskiyi_telekanal_20_millionov_russk



ih_ne_veli_sebya_tak_agressivno_za_20_let_nasilstvennoyi_ukrainizatsii (even the nickname was called Russian, just laugh)

this is from the latter, and so - scroll the Internet, there are a lot of "unfriendly" statements

And in this thread - just the mention that Ukraine is allegedly someone else's project - already outright rudeness

[klimpopov]

this is from the latter, and so - scroll the Internet, there are a lot of "unfriendly" statements

But in Ukraine, of course, everyone loves and adores Russia and Russians, especially in the Western regions? And they always talk about how well we are with Russia, and they are in return for us.
By the way, they have said so much from the Ukrainian side ...

http://censor.net.ua/video_news/211449/rossiyiskiyi_telekanal_20_millionov_russk

And where do you find such sites?

[Barrel]

And where do you find such sites?

I was not looking for a website, but for the news I had heard before.
What is the difference between Russia and Europe:
When the second notorious presenters on Polish radio began to joke about Ukrainian women, such a scandal arose: they were fired, the program was closed, a criminal case was opened. And what about Russia? "Doesn't the Ukrainian language exist?" - on the front pages of newspapers and in the news!

[klimpopov]

"The Ukrainian language does not exist" - I have never seen this (maybe because I don't read newspapers) But two years ago in Mariupol I met a Ukrainian newspaper about "ancient Ukrainians" and it was about trade with ancient Greeks - I smiled. But while driving, I understand what is provocation and what is not - so why can't you separate the garbage from the screen from the real story. I understand that it is difficult - but somehow it is necessary. Why don't you want to understand that this is the same information war and a big game in which Russia and Ukraine are involved.

[Barrel]

I distinguish provocation from the truth, you just asked for examples - I brought them. Brotherhood and friendship will come between nations only when they learn to respect the values ​​of another nation. If the country is France, they speak French in it, Russia speaks Russian, but we want to make Ukraine remember the Ukrainian language.

[DimYang]

No need to invent about "the most numerous diaspora", look at the Rostat website. Everything will fall into place. Guys who come to Russia (I'm not talking about those whose brains are brainwashed by all sorts of outright lies) from Ukraine, consider themselves Russian people, no one restricts their rights and does not specifically impose it, the same can be said about Belarus. There is such a verbal expression among the people "I speak to you in Russian", have you never heard of it? Maybe in Ukraine they say something like this verbal turnover differently? This is in itself a telling fact.

[Barrel]

"I speak to you in Russian" is an aphorism. Each language has its own aphorisms and they are not translated.
And what is your largest diaspora?

[klimpopov]

Armenian! Forgive my friends Armenians

[Barrel]

So make Armenian the second state

[klimpopov]

Armenians do not ask them, and so well - they will do it, but then everyone else will ask))) But in the republics, native languages ​​have regional significance - for example, the KCR, and the Abazin is protected by the state (one of the smallest nations), and there should be taught in their native language, such a Russia here is a prison of peoples.

[Barrel]

So, we do not have a unitary state — there is no republic (except Crimea, but the Tatar language there seemed to be regional). Everywhere lives one ethnic group - Ukrainians. And since there are no other indigenous peoples, then regional status is not appropriate here. Here Moscow is your ethnic region. Our law is the same if you made all those Uzbek, Azerbaijani, etc., regional in Moscow. languages, because there they are not a small percentage.

[klimpopov]

And what did the Russians come to Sevastopol in the early nineties and began to demand that Russia become the second state? You forget a little that the Russian-speaking population considers Ukraine as native to themselves as you do, and these people want to speak their native Russian language in their country!

[Barrel]

If they are native Russian, then Ukraine is not their homeland. Let them go to Russia, we should not create convenience for you to the detriment of ourselves. I want to speak my own language, but the environment that speaks Russian does not give me. How can one speak one language when everyone else speaks another?

[klimpopov]

Yes you are my friend nationalist !!! Ukraine for Ukrainians do not speak with you more !!! And my minus to you! Such as you arrange the Holocaust !!!

[Barrel]

* If a Russian loves Russia, he is a patriot. If a Ukrainian loves Ukraine, he is a terry Bandera nationalist.

Do you think I am pleased to talk with chauvinists?

[DimYang]

Why is there no word "Ukrainian" or "Belarusian" in this aphorism? I repeat, in our world of cause-and-effect relationships, nothing happens just like that, including aphorisms. This is the memory of the people and wisdom.

[Barrel]

because it Russian aphorism. Other nationalities are also mentioned in Russian aphorisms, but they are mainly aimed at ridiculing enemies such as Germans, Turks, etc.

[DimYang]

Can you answer me, and first of all yourself, the question? Why is it used in Ukraine? Why do the Poles not consume it or the Turks or the Germans? I happened to be Germans in the company, I asked them something in conversation, I know a little German and spoke to them on it. When I asked again, because I didn’t have time to understand, they never used any similar words or words like ours. In the current context, I would now ask them: are there any word-works like ours as such in general? But it seems to me that they would answer no.

[Barrel]

Why is it used in Ukraine?
Yes, because Ukraine was part of Russia. This fact in itself includes the influence of Russian culture, as a culture dominant in terms of population, on the Ukrainian + planting of the Russian language and culture, an attempt to assimilate. Why not at the Pole? Because they formed the state long before us and even before you, and became a source of the same influence as you. It's like 2 magnets with the same pole - i.e. repel each other. To all this, they didn’t have common borders with you; they belonged to the Western Slavs and no one imposed Russian culture on them. Why not the Turks and Germans - they just did not have even the slightest influence of Russian culture.

In general, this aphorism is Russian, but we have it listed as "borrowed".

[DimYang]

For Barrel.
I will not answer stupid things. Apparently it's too early for you to realize simple things. In your spare time, think more objectively about what you wrote, if you yourself so wish. Thinking is never too late.

[Barrel]

I understand what you are leading me to, but I think that you are wrong.

[Bosk]

Somehow, it turns out interesting, millions of people can speak Russian ... but it cannot be recognized officially, because it wakes up a threat to the Ukrainian ........ illogical, it seems to me that just some frames that surfaced on an orange wave of mind lack economic issues, so they go on an easier way, they pretend to be patriots, but if they press .... for example, they will throw themselves under a tank with a grenade, it seems to me no matter what language he wakes up the enemy, in Russian, Ukrainian or Tatar. It does not seem to be a threat to the Ukrainian language ..... it hurts too much like trying to humiliate either the Russian language, or the Russian, or it, and this is at a time when many people dream of going west ... ................ the guys have long gone to work, one country has already been destroyed .... that's enough.

[Barrel]

Yes, it’s about the elections that ripen in the fall, but the problem really exists. If Napoleon would conquer Russia in the 12th year and propagate French language and literature to everyone, close all Russian-speaking schools, forbid it to print in Russian, performances, films, radio - all in French.
And you have to learn children first French, and then, if there is enough space in your head - Russian. After all, in French all government agencies, instructions, etc. And he just doesn’t need a Russian. That’s how you would behave in such a situation, because to hell it looks like Ukraine of the 19th century!

[phantom359]

BarrelDo you have nothing to do? You are talking nonsense. Is it really not clear that in the parliament they are ready to suffer heh ,,,, and they will do anything, just not what they need. The debate has inflated, although this will not change anything, as they spoke in Russian, they will say so. They just gave me another reason to poke orange.

[klimpopov]

You’ll agree to something strange. In your opinion, it appears that Russia has conquered Ukraine and is still imposing the Russian language there.

[Barrel]

Ukraine of the 19th century!

And now we’re just scooping up the consequences


phantom359, I know that this is an election campaign, but the problem exists, and our Slav brothers cannot understand this

[Num lock U.A.]

talk about the status of the Russian language has always preceded the elections in Ukraine.
we have a tradition here. this time even the law was passed.

[sergeant1973]

a week since I came from vacation, I was relaxing in Ukraine in the city of Mariupol

[iSpoiler]

Half of the country is talking there, I lived in an "independent, independent" for 11 years, from 89 to 2001. in Zaporozhye (m. Zaporizhzhya) I was in Melitopol, Yalta, Alushta, Alupka, Kirrilovka, I don’t remember anymore - damn it, I then thought that in Ukrainian "rozmovlyae (I don’t have the right letter on the keyboard)))" , well, and the state channels ... once I was in Kiev, there - yes, there are people talking like that .. then I thought - in a quirk, everyone around is chatting in Russian (well, perhaps they are shocking and gagging) and they are "happy" remembered ..
He studied at the same school, damn it about international relations with Russia, especially in history - a mess, all the poor attack them, everyone robs them - there are Poland, there Russia ..... yes, you fucking ...... all are so white and fluffy ......
what was it was - NO ONE DENIES ... !!!
But damn why such an emphasis on this to do in teaching children at school .. ??
When I flew to Kamchatka, I thought all the PPCs would gobble up for "yandia" they say Russian bloodthirsty ...
Do not believe me, I have never seen a better attitude towards myself, left-wing people in general are ready to help JUST SO .. Nizahren, free of charge, without sighs, looks and other shit ....
Kiev is the mother of Russian cities, we are one and the same, it’s necessary so that the people can be delayed so that anti-Russian sentiments appear ... AT ALL, how so .. ??
For me, Ukraine is Russia, it’s simple with the bells and whistles ...

[Barrel]

Studied at school

This is our problem. In France, schools are French-speaking, in China - Chinese-speaking, and in Ukraine - Russian-speaking. This is another scoop legacy. If schools were in their native language, then everyone around would speak Ukrainian.

But damn why such an emphasis on this to do in teaching children at school .. ??

This is not an accent, it is our story. This is not being studied in Russia, because it exposes the country in an unfavorable light, as an aggressor. And we have nowhere to go, or do you propose to erase from our history all the time from 1654 to 1991?

For me, Ukraine is Russia, it’s simple with the bells and whistles

I understand you, if Ukraine lost such a significant territory, I would also now strive to regain it, but according to international law: every nation has the right to self-determination, so here excuse me, it’s not up to you to decide, but to us.

PS By the way, if it’s no secret, in what kind of paradise did you live?