Military Review

Instead of the front - in the police. How the Soviet guys ended up in Hipo

237
Instead of the front - in the police. How the Soviet guys ended up in Hipo

Looking closely at the documentary photographs of Nazi accomplices from the ranks of the Auxiliary Police (Hilfspolizei-Hipo) created in the territories captured by the Nazis during the Great Patriotic War, one cannot but pay attention to one extremely characteristic detail: the presence of young people of military age among those depicted on them. How so? Those who were obliged at this moment to fight with the invaders in the ranks of the Red Army, defending their homeland and father's house, suddenly found themselves in the service of the invaders ...


Let's talk about how this happened.

Indeed, the decision on mass military draft on the territory of the Soviet Union was made on June 22, 1941. The next day, the mobilization of military-liable citizens of 1905-1918 years of birth began, which was carried out in 14 of the USSR military districts of 17. Over the week, nearly 5 and a half million soldiers and commanders joined the Red Army. However, as we see, the children born in 1922-1923, that is, those who were 41 to 18-19 years old, were not affected by this appeal. Perhaps the point here is that until 1939 they were called up for active military service from the age of 21.

Nevertheless, the difficult situation on the fronts, the enormous losses of the Red Army forced the State Defense Committee on August 10, 1941 to start the second wave of mobilization, which affected not only the guys born in 1922-23, but also those who were born until 1894. The call was already in all districts. In the part of the Red Army went another 6,8 million Soviet citizens. However, one should not forget that by this moment the enemy had already seized significant territories of our country, on which they simply did not manage to carry out a comprehensive mobilization. Here is the first source of potential conscripts in the ranks of the police ...

Now about the others. Huge crowds of young people who literally stormed military enlistment offices in the first days and weeks of the Great Patriotic War are, no matter how someone wants to prove the opposite, not fiction and not propaganda, but the most authentic reality, “reinforced concrete” confirmed documented. There were, however, those who did not rush to the front at all. Someone was simply afraid to go to war, and someone dodged the draft for "ideological reasons." It is only liberal historians who are trying to prove that Stalin and Beria invented every single enemy of the Soviet regime. In fact, those who in 1941 did not consider their state the workers and peasants, nor the Red Army, which defended it, in the country, alas, was missing.

By the way, it was they who ran in the first place to sign up for the police created by the invaders and for the punitive teams of Schutzmann-schaft. I really wanted to settle accounts with the hated Bolsheviks. As a rule, these were the children of those who during the period of the revolution and the Civil War lost their wealth, high social status, and power. Separately, it is worth mentioning here also nationalists, primarily Ukrainian and Baltic. These were ready to serve the Nazis in order to be able to slaughter commissars and ethnically “wrong” ones.

However, among the future Hitler minions there were those who, while talking about a mortal resentment against the Soviet regime, hid the usual bestial desire to rob their fellow countrymen and powerfully hide over them. Of course, they were hiding from the draft in the Red Army, but they considered the policeman “dustless” and, as it seemed, safe service for great luck. Criminals also belonged to this disgusting category, which, as a matter of fact, no one took to the front, but the occupiers willingly accepted the ranks of the "assistants". We will leave delusional tales about the lessons “heroically struggling with the Nazis” on the conscience of some Russian filmmakers, either consciously lying, or simply not having an idea of ​​the real events of those years.

Another category of police “youngsters” consisted of those whom the Nazis selected from prisoners of war. Often, at the initial stage of the war, a man had time to both be called up and get captured just next to his own house. Such people, depressed, demoralized, weak in spirit, the Germans faced a simple choice: either the bandage Hilfspolizei - or a concentration camp. They could have threatened to shoot on the spot, while killing someone for clarity.

In any case, everyone has always had a choice. The pitiful assurances that “there was no other way,” sounded later when the Red Army drove the Nazis back to the West, cost absolutely nothing. To become a hero or a traitor, to swell with hunger or to creep over a policeman, freeze in a guerrilla dugout, risking his life in battles or participating in bullying of civilians and their executions - here everyone decided for himself. And there were no excuses for those who, having betrayed their homeland, transformed from its protector into her executioner, there was, is not and cannot be.
Author:
Photos used:
Wikipedia / Fortepan / Adományozó
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  1. Andrei Nikolaevich
    Andrei Nikolaevich 16 May 2020 08: 22 New
    +1
    As far as I know, this category of people was called - ,, Khivi ,, and not ,, Hypo ,,
    1. svp67
      svp67 16 May 2020 08: 27 New
      25
      Quote: Andrey Nikolaevich
      As far as I know, this category of people was called - ,, Khivi ,, and not ,, Hypo ,,

      Hivi (German: Hilfswilliger, willing to help) - originally an unarmed assistant, the same were. They procured firewood for the German units, worked as orderlies, as drivers, remember Sokolov from Sholokhov's "The Fate of a Man", did other dirty, hard and dangerous work



      Unlike auxiliary police (German. Hilfspolizeiabbreviated Hiccup)
      Another category of police "youngsters" were those whom the Nazis were selected among prisoners of war
      As well as former police officers and employees of investigative bodies working in the criminal police
      1. Andrei Nikolaevich
        Andrei Nikolaevich 16 May 2020 09: 19 New
        +7
        Now, I understood.
      2. 210ox
        210ox 16 May 2020 10: 58 New
        15
        But they understand ... They hide the faces in the photo.
      3. Fat
        Fat 16 May 2020 13: 56 New
        +1
        former police officers and investigative officers working in the criminal police

        tacon
      4. Fat
        Fat 16 May 2020 16: 09 New
        0
        Yes, ideal fighters against the criminal, always confused the edges. Let their story condemn. The fault of the policemen is cooperation with the invaders. Or do you think: A thief, a killer, a maniac, a robber ... is a terrorist normal?
        What with the invaders, the criminal disappeared?
        Me ... In someone civil, then protect ... Hans from Hamburg?
        Correctly, they were most condemned as accomplices of the invaders ....
        But .. Criminal rampant is no better than genocide ...
      5. vladcub
        vladcub 16 May 2020 16: 29 New
        +5
        Sergey, the top photo from some x / f?
        1. svp67
          svp67 16 May 2020 18: 49 New
          +8
          Quote: vladcub
          top photo from some x / f?

          A rare color photograph of a marching German infantry with two Soviet prisoners of war carrying ammunition for them, 41st year
          1. not main
            not main 16 May 2020 23: 45 New
            +2
            Quote: svp67
            Quote: vladcub
            top photo from some x / f?

            A rare color photograph of a marching German infantry with two Soviet prisoners of war carrying ammunition for them, 41st year

            What time! And the fact that the gymnasts are bright green? Moreover, in size, it means not mobilized. And two MG34 machine guns in one frame? Stage shot! Who does not agree object, but reasonedly.
            1. svp67
              svp67 17 May 2020 21: 01 New
              +3
              Quote: non-primary
              And the fact that the gymnasts are bright green? Moreover, in size, it means not mobilized.

              Why did you decide so? They can be both from the last pre-war draft, and called up for pre-war "big military training"
              Quote: non-primary
              And two MG34 machine guns in one frame?

              So what? Want to say that this could not be? It could. The Wehrmacht's infantry battalion included a heavy weapons company or a machine-gun company, and, in addition to machine guns, it included mortars as well. And there were 12 machine guns in service
              1. not main
                not main 17 May 2020 21: 21 New
                -1
                Quote: svp67
                Quote: non-primary
                And the fact that the gymnasts are bright green? Moreover, in size, it means not mobilized.

                Why did you decide so? They can be both from the last pre-war draft, and called up for pre-war "big military training"
                Quote: non-primary
                And two MG34 machine guns in one frame?

                So what? Want to say that this could not be? It could. The Wehrmacht's infantry battalion included a heavy weapons company or a machine-gun company, and, in addition to machine guns, it included mortars as well. And there were 12 machine guns in service

                In principle, anything is possible! But in order: the last pre-war conscription was in the spring of 1941, which means that the uniform has already been erased more than once. I don't think there is a need to explain what happens after the wash. "big military training" is our "partisans", and they were never given a new uniform. At the expense of MG34, you said everything correctly! But for the Germans, one MG34 was provided with a squad of riflemen with carbines, so if we see two MG34s, we should see at least 15 more soldiers. I will add that in 1941 the Germans did not need such a density of fire. Hence the conclusion: the photo is staged.
                1. svp67
                  svp67 17 May 2020 21: 58 New
                  +4
                  Quote: non-primary
                  But in order: the last pre-war appeal was in the spring of 1941, which means the form has already been erased more than once.

                  No, now I’ve clarified that this is not from a pre-war call for active service. According to those normative documents, the appeal was carried out from September 15 to October 15.
                  Quote: non-primary
                  But among the Germans, one MG34 was provided with a division of riflemen with carbines,

                  In total, for a machine gun crew of two people there were two ammunition carriers for each machine gun plus a squad leader, range finder and charioteer

                  "On the far right on the slide - arrows No. 3 and 4, engaged in the tray of ammunition. Each soldier carried 2 boxes for 250 rounds. A total of 2500 rounds of ammunition were allocated for the machine-gun crew. The wagon train had another 1000 rounds."
                  Well, consider it, even if you load the assistant machine gunner with two boxes, it’s 1500 plus on the machine gun 250, it turns out 750 were in the wagon compartment.
                  Quote: non-primary
                  I add that in 1941 the Germans did not need such a density of fire.

                  Here you are wrong. The machine gun company (heavy weapons company) was part of the Wehrmacht infantry battalion in 41 and it was the main firepower of this battalion. All the legends of our soldiers about the crowds of German machine gunners under themselves have exactly what they were able to achieve such a density of machine guns in battalions. Given their rate of fire, in the breakout areas it was possible to create seas of fire that didn’t allow our fighters to raise their heads, while the Germans could approach the distance of a grenade throw
                  Quote: non-primary
                  Hence the conclusion: a staged photo.

                  It is propaganda and it is a fact. Few German soldiers had color film and, most importantly, reagents for its development and printing. The photo is clearly professional.
                  1. not main
                    not main 17 May 2020 22: 32 New
                    +1
                    Quote: svp67
                    No, now I’ve clarified that this is not from a pre-war call for active service. According to those normative documents, the appeal was carried out from September 15 to October 15.

                    Especially. which confirms the proforma version.
                    Quote: svp67
                    In total, for a machine gun crew of two people there were two ammunition carriers for each machine gun plus a squad leader, range finder and charioteer

                    Is this not a separation? I will not argue about the density of fire in the first and next years of the Second World War, I completely agree that this was achieved precisely with machine guns. But I’ll add: if the troops are on the offensive (successful), then two machine guns per 20 meters of front are redundant, and only 2 meters? And at the expense of the photo, as you said it is propaganda, for reliability, pay attention to how the uniform on the soldiers looks, in the photo below this! I will not argue anymore, in my opinion we understood each other.
                    1. svp67
                      svp67 18 May 2020 08: 03 New
                      0
                      Quote: non-primary
                      But I will add: if the troops are on the offensive (successful), then two machine guns per 20 meters of front are redundant, and only by 2 meters?

                      This is how your losses are reduced, it is better to "pour" "lead and cast iron" on the enemy's heads than the blood of your soldiers
      6. Tavrik
        Tavrik 17 May 2020 20: 44 New
        +2
        Thanks for the clarification. In the memoirs of German officers, mention is often made of the Khivis who helped in the company or battalion. It was interesting where the name came from.
    2. Petrik66
      Petrik66 16 May 2020 08: 36 New
      +9
      Hilfspolizei, abbreviated Hipo - he is a policeman, Hilfswilliger, abbreviated Hiwi - he is also a volunteer assistant. The first were in the rear, the second "helped" at the front.
    3. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 16 May 2020 10: 55 New
      +4
      Quote: Andrey Nikolaevich
      As far as I know, this category of people was called - ,, Khivi ,, and not ,, Hypo ,,


      Here is this inferior photograph from the home album of a German soldier. This is in the village of Basino, the Dukhovshchinsky district of the Siolensk region, this is the "Khivi" defending against the offensive of our troops in 1943.
      1. 210ox
        210ox 16 May 2020 11: 00 New
        14
        My parents were teenagers during the occupation-Glinkovsky District, p. White Hill, Rust, Smolensk region. They told .. Horror of all this.
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 16 May 2020 12: 04 New
          12
          Quote: 210ox
          My parents were teenagers during the occupation-Glinkovsky District, p. White Hill, Rust, Smolensk region. They told .. Horror of all this.

          Same basino
          The whole family was shot, mother, wife, sister, daughters, because their son, husband, father, brother were an officer of the Red Army. The eldest son died in 1941, the youngest in Germany near Berlin. This warrior lived his life in Basino and was buried with his loved ones.
          1. 210ox
            210ox 16 May 2020 13: 30 New
            +7
            To my shame, having lived half a century in Smolensk, and having traveled on business trips to almost the entire region, I was not in your area.
            1. tihonmarine
              tihonmarine 16 May 2020 13: 54 New
              +4
              Quote: 210ox
              To my shame, having lived half a century in Smolensk, and having traveled on business trips to almost the entire region, I was not in your area.

              Dukhovshchinsky district under Khrushch was united with Prechistinsky. This is just in front of the Svitsky bogs, which between the Kalinin and Smolensk regions, read from Ozernoye to Beloye Tver region. In Ozernoye Smolensk State District Power Plant, which was supposed to work with milled peat of the Svitsky bogs, but it turned out that the peat did not "last" for a million years. But then nature remained, lakes Schechye, Velisto, Akatovskoye, where there are many fish, ducks, geese. There is game, berries in the swamps. But lately all this is being bought by "Muscovites", you can't catch a fish, and you can't wander through the forests, the guards of the ribs will count mordovorots. My parents lived there, and I only came to visit, and at that time I lived in Tallinn.
              1. 210ox
                210ox 16 May 2020 13: 58 New
                +7
                Yes, this is the eastern part of the Smolensk Lake District nature park.
          2. Fat
            Fat 16 May 2020 15: 10 New
            +2
            Father!. Our fought ... Until the last order. What they could. That’s what they did ... With good commanders ... Two weeks and no Shah ...
            Able! They could! Were ready.. .
            Not once has there been anything to say about our MPCs ... They flew, beat the enemy and, save, taught the fighters.
      2. LeonidL
        LeonidL 17 May 2020 00: 33 New
        +5
        The "hivi" did not have shoulder straps, and the photo shows shoulder straps. Most likely not the Khivi, but the Germans or the Vlasovites from the "eastern" battalions, maybe the Georgians, their two battalions on the Kursk Bulge were lit up.
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 18 May 2020 09: 30 New
          0
          Quote: LeonidL
          Most likely not the Khivi, but the Germans or the Vlasovites from the "eastern" battalions, maybe the Georgians, their two battalions on the Kursk Bulge were lit up.

          I don’t know for sure, but as the locals said, these ghouls spoke Russian. In the Smolensk region they collected all the rabble, there was even the Ukrainian Legion, which was located in the city of Roslavl, Smolensk region, consisted of Russians. But their names were redone in the Ukrainian way. So, the legionnaires Ivanov and Vasiliev, who sided with the partisans, reported that, being in German service, they bore the names of Ivanenko and Vasilenko.
          That it’s not Germans for sure, you see that one lies with the machine gun of Diagterev (PD-27). My son found this photo in Germany.
          1. LeonidL
            LeonidL 18 May 2020 16: 54 New
            +1
            I do not argue that let's say "traitors". But the overwhelming majority of the Khivi took weapons in their hands only for carrying, they were rather servants, taxpayers, porters. But all the ostolnaya scum of the war listed by you is already vicious dogs in the service of the Nazis.
      3. Starover_Z
        Starover_Z 18 May 2020 08: 42 New
        0
        Quote: tihonmarine

        Here is this inferior photograph from the home album of a German soldier. This is in the village of Basino, the Dukhovshchinsky district of the Siolensk region, this is the "Khivi" defending against the offensive of our troops in 1943.

        Helmets are kind of like German, and the machine gun is similar to Degtyarevsky, with the disc on top. Why ?
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 18 May 2020 09: 33 New
          0
          Quote: Starover_Z
          Helmets are kind of like German, and the machine gun is similar to Degtyarevsky, with the disc on top. Why ?

          I just wrote PD-27 for sure, but it’s not the Germans, the locals said that the ghouls spoke Russian. They also did the shootings.
    4. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 16 May 2020 12: 02 New
      +2
      Quote: Andrey Nikolaevich
      Hiwi ,, and not ,, Hypo ,,

      I met the option: "hypo" ...
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 16 May 2020 14: 06 New
        10
        Quote: Nikolaevich I
        I have met the option: "hypo" ..

        How not to read, all one traitors.
      2. toha124
        toha124 17 May 2020 16: 28 New
        +3
        Many German words with the letter "Ha" in Russian transcription traditionally begin with the letter "Г", including proper names. Why - I don't know, not a philologist. So, the historical characters we are all familiar with, they are actually Hitler and Himler (although Goebbels and Goering are really with "G").
  2. hhhhhhh
    hhhhhhh 16 May 2020 08: 28 New
    15
    How did we choose to be traitors in 1991? We thought it would be more money and a hundred varieties of sausage.
    1. A. Privalov
      A. Privalov 16 May 2020 09: 16 New
      +6
      Quote: hhhhhhh
      there will be more money and one hundred varieties of sausage.

      This is true! We would have thought that there would be a hundred varieties of sausage, but there wouldn’t be any money, so it may have passed ...
      On the other hand, it is interesting to know how many grades of sausage you can think of, but not to become a traitor? hi
      1. sabakina
        sabakina 16 May 2020 10: 02 New
        17
        Quote: A. Privalov
        On the other hand, it is interesting to know how many grades of sausage you can think of, but not to become a traitor? hi

        About three. "Ostankinskaya", "Milk", "Doctor".
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 16 May 2020 11: 02 New
          +9
          Quote: sabakina
          About three. "Ostankinskaya", "Milk", "Doctor".

          A separate one was forgotten for 1 rub. 60 kopecks. The most common and cheapest cooked sausage. And the cheapest was "Semipalatinskaya" 1 ruble 40 kopecks. We also had "Horse" of two varieties, boiled and smoked.
          1. sabakina
            sabakina 16 May 2020 11: 11 New
            +4
            Vlad, it's me offhand. I still had to get the half-smoked one. Sometimes the process of "getting" was more enjoyable than the process of "using" it. wink
            1. tihonmarine
              tihonmarine 16 May 2020 12: 14 New
              +1
              Quote: sabakina
              I still had to get the half-smoked one. Sometimes the process of "getting" was more enjoyable than the process of "using" it.

              The process of getting it was unique, either "by pull" or a night in line. Just like under Khrushche in 1962 - 1964, there was a process of getting bread, although it is surprising that bread was free in canteens, but it was cut thinly-thinly (bread slicer), a slice exactly two times, there was little waste.
            2. LeonidL
              LeonidL 17 May 2020 00: 44 New
              +4
              There were also "servilat" and "uncooked smoked" on the market sold in cooperative ranks. But, I remember the years before the 56th went to the Grocery store at the corner of Danileskaya and Lenin Ave. so there was so much there !!!! Sausages, cheeses, hams, even chocolate butter, herring in barrels ... sellers in white caps, cut thinly with large knives ... They took 50-200 grams each and nowhere to store, there are no refrigerators. Then, with Khrushchev's freaks, the economic councils ... everything disappeared. Two varieties: the "Yes" variety and the "No" variety ... To the eyeballs, by 1966, the cornbread was gone - you can buy it hot, you can still eat it, but it will stand until the evening - chop it with an ax. So the films "" and "Our dear Nikita Sergeevich" went then - in pairs, like thin and doc. advertisements were placed in a row ... And in the hole on Summskaya, some craftsman stuck a corn loaf into dear Mikitka's mouth.
          2. Alexfly
            Alexfly 16 May 2020 12: 10 New
            +9
            Didn’t forget to say anything about the liver? It was good, with mustard, but for port 777
            1. sabakina
              sabakina 16 May 2020 12: 22 New
              +8
              Quote: AlexFly
              Didn’t forget to say anything about the liver? It was good, with mustard, but for port 777

              I haven't forgotten anything. I remembered the "noble" sausage. We didn’t even count the liverworm as a sausage. So, an addition to a piece of bread for breakfast. Although the Soviet liverwurst will give odds to any current sausage.
              1. tihonmarine
                tihonmarine 16 May 2020 13: 15 New
                +3
                Quote: sabakina
                ak, in addition to a piece of bread for breakfast. Although the Soviet liverwill will give odds to any current sausage.

                Livernaya for a snack only after work, "in nature". But what exactly will she give a head start, and what a handicap. But about high-quality sausages, it was a gorgeous sausage, there is no such thing now, and even more so by name, uncooked smoked "Nyukugodu" (Soviet), a stick of 350 grams, with a red ribbon around with an inscription. This is the smell, this is the taste. It was gentle to cut thinly obliquely (then you feel the taste better, as well as the herring), and spread out the look and taste and smell on a plate in one row. Everything is gone.
                1. Blacksmith 55
                  Blacksmith 55 16 May 2020 18: 04 New
                  +2
                  About how to cut.
                  I recalled from Prostokvashino:
                  Wrong you eat a sandwich Uncle Fedor, you need a sausage on the tongue, so it tastes better.

                  And our sausage, unfortunately, was sold only during the elections. Therefore, I do not understand the process of "getting", only joy.
              2. SOVIET UNION 2
                SOVIET UNION 2 16 May 2020 13: 41 New
                +6
                Well today has appeared (new technologies?) Plant liver! Seeing this price tag with the name, I was stunned! And so pasta with liverwurst was very tasty! Yes, and delicacy liver pies! In the Union, fried cooked and smoked sausage with a crust in a non-Tefalean pan. Toasted, but not sticky! Why does it stick today to the non-stick Tefalev coating? Can anyone explain the cause of sticking? Sausage is not real, or tefal? Or all together?
                1. Domestic cat
                  Domestic cat 17 May 2020 20: 54 New
                  +2
                  In today's sausage - there is no meat — there is no meat, and instead of it all sorts of rubbish that sticks to any pan. Then in the sausage was up to 90% of the meat.
              3. Sardanapalus
                Sardanapalus 17 May 2020 10: 33 New
                -3
                Minus I slapped. They did not consider the liverworm as a sausage. And the adults took me to Moscow with them. They will show the Kremlin-vdnh-zoo .. And then the queue-queue-queue to buy "human" sausage blat, you spend the whole night in the station chair, and then queue again. But then on Saturdays and Sundays, the month fried-boiled sausage with mashed potatoes. I still prefer blood and now, and from "sovdepovskaya" sausage heartburn of memories.
              4. Svarog51
                Svarog51 17 May 2020 19: 58 New
                +3
                Glory! hi For THAT sausage - I'll sell my soul, but it's not there now. And it won't. Excuse me, I bought Kostroma products in a stall - an amateur one. It looks like pressed sawdust. Well, at least it does not creep when frying. But all the same - not that. Even though they said that there was toilet paper there - a lie, the sausage was natural. No carcinogens. Now it is necessary to "catch" young enterprises with new products, while they become - they do it with high quality, then they merge. And then you want to eat.
            2. tihonmarine
              tihonmarine 16 May 2020 12: 39 New
              +6
              Quote: AlexFly
              Didn’t forget to say anything about the liver? It was good, with mustard, but for port 777

              And the "dog's joy" was, well, deshovaya blood bottle for 60 kopecks. And nothing, sit in the park three bottles of 2 rubles. 87 kopecks for three and a kilo of "dogs", even very good.
              Now such a delicacy, and even at such a price, doesn’t happen with fire during the day.
          3. Malyuta
            Malyuta 16 May 2020 12: 53 New
            +6
            Quote: tihonmarine
            A separate one was forgotten at 1 rub. 60 kopecks. The most common and cheapest of cooked sausages.

            I greatly apologize, but there was still liverworm of 90 kopecks and a liver of 70 kopecks. The food was a simple appetizer, but quite suitable for itself. hi
            1. tihonmarine
              tihonmarine 16 May 2020 13: 21 New
              +1
              Quote: Malyuta
              I am very sorry, but there was still liverworm of 90 kopecks and a liver of 70 kopecks.

              Our liver function was 1 rub.20 kopecks, but from a pure liver and with garlic, a rarity even then. Now there is one too, and some species do not even differ from the previous one. There are many different species of blood, too, especially good with buckwheat. Also the same as before. Lithuanians now have very good sausages, although they used to be good too.
        2. Senior seaman
          Senior seaman 16 May 2020 14: 20 New
          +4
          Quote: sabakina
          About three. "Ostankinskaya", "Milk", "Doctor".

          Amateur where to delhi? :)))
        3. vladcub
          vladcub 16 May 2020 16: 37 New
          0
          And "Amateur"?
        4. Andrey Bragin
          Andrey Bragin 16 May 2020 20: 39 New
          +2
          Russian and Separate, sometimes Linguistic. There was no doctoral in Moscow. I brought from Kiev. Liver 2 varieties. At work, they also sold Ryabchikova. Tasty. In general, there were 2 varieties: 2.20 and 2.90 each.
      2. Fat
        Fat 16 May 2020 15: 32 New
        0
        I don’t even know how to perceive ...
        On the other hand, it is interesting to know how many grades of sausage you can think of, but not to become a traitor?

        Enough ...
        Not to become a "sausage filling" Many are not "happy" ..
    2. 210ox
      210ox 16 May 2020 09: 18 New
      11
      We chose?! Traitors have already been. In power. The only thing that they did wrong, did not understand what was happening.
      1. hhhhhhh
        hhhhhhh 16 May 2020 09: 27 New
        -8
        I have not seen you in the trenches of the defenders of the USSR. Myself too.
        Those boys who went to the police knew that in 1945 there would be a victory.
        1. sabakina
          sabakina 16 May 2020 10: 05 New
          +7
          Quote: hhhhhhh
          Those boys who went to the police knew that in 1945 there would be a victory.
          Did they all have the gift of foresight? belay
          1. hhhhhhh
            hhhhhhh 16 May 2020 10: 07 New
            +2
            Who could have foreseen the end of capitalism? Which is around. Lenin's work "Imperialism as the Highest Stage of Capitalism" was passed through and outlined at the institute. It turns out we were warned about 2020
            1. sniperino
              sniperino 16 May 2020 11: 07 New
              0
              Quote: hhhhhhh
              Who could have foreseen the end of capitalism? Which is around.
              Capitalism, or the end of it?
              1. hhhhhhh
                hhhhhhh 16 May 2020 11: 19 New
                -2
                The earth is over, there is nowhere to expand capitalism. More Adam Smith, and then Marx began to talk about it. Now this end has come. What's next foggy.
                1. sniperino
                  sniperino 16 May 2020 12: 17 New
                  +3
                  Quote: hhhhhhh
                  What's next foggy
                  To dissipate the fog, it is necessary for the parties to propose social projects of an appropriate scale, and not engage exclusively in their own wealth, career and black PR.
                  1. hhhhhhh
                    hhhhhhh 16 May 2020 12: 30 New
                    +2
                    Again, someone has to do everything for us? The Bolsheviks built the Land of Soviets with their own hands.
                    1. Malyuta
                      Malyuta 16 May 2020 12: 57 New
                      +1
                      Quote: hhhhhhh
                      Again, someone has to do everything for us? The Bolsheviks built the Land of Soviets with their own hands.

                      Everyone is sitting and waiting for a miracle, but miracles do not happen, science is a serious thing.
                      1. hhhhhhh
                        hhhhhhh 16 May 2020 13: 01 New
                        0
                        We have someone to read and learn from.
                      2. Malyuta
                        Malyuta 16 May 2020 13: 15 New
                        +1
                        Quote: hhhhhhh
                        We have someone to read and learn from.

                        Unfortunately, we are slowly learning to live, and learning is difficult for us.
                      3. hhhhhhh
                        hhhhhhh 16 May 2020 13: 17 New
                        +1
                        But we know how it can be good.
              2. SOVIET UNION 2
                SOVIET UNION 2 16 May 2020 14: 42 New
                +7
                Which parties? What do they offer? I mean by a party of supporters of a certain socio-economic system. There is a model of monarchy. There is a model of capitalism. There is a model of socialism. Which parties do we have? What do they offer? If elected, I will cancel the overhaul fee! If they elect me. I will lower the retirement age! I am for moving forward! I am for the rights of pensioners! What's this? Party? We have EdRo! And what do they offer? What is the socio-economic structure? It is more like a club of functionary officials! What does the Liberal Democratic Party offer? Personally, I don’t know. Where are our parties offering the socio-economic model of the state? Why is our tax system like this? There is no alternative? Why it is impossible to leave 10% of the enterprise tax in the local fund of the region? Why the region should not be given 10% to the needs of the country? Why can not pensions be paid out of 10% of the country's income? Why is it not possible to pay pension deductions for the implementation of management? Are leaders like hired workers hired by a workforce or community? Why should management not be paid from the fund of contributions to management? If there is one million rubles in the management payment fund, will the management staff be expanded or optimized? Maybe let's change the state system to another? Why not? What is stopping this? Fraud schemes are constantly changing. Why can’t you change the political system? The problem of scientifically calculating the state system? Why is the minimum wage limited and the oligarch’s top income not? Where is the business case for this?
                1. sniperino
                  sniperino 16 May 2020 21: 30 New
                  -1
                  Quote: SOVIET UNION 2
                  There is a model of socialism.
                  Who developed it? Stalin did not have it shortly before his death, about which he himself wrote. Who imperceptibly, quietly contributed to Marxism in order to declare that he knows what socialism is necessary to build and how to build it in the modern world? Who is this thinker with whom we were fortunate enough to live at the same time, why are they hiding him from us?
                  Maybe in some country today there is a model socialism, monarchy or capitalism? The concepts of a century ago, which were created with one goal - to carry out the world communist revolution - do not work today for any world fire, because no one wants it anymore, and proletarian internationalism is a myth that no one believes in; today (= in a different historical and political situation) - these are words behind which there is no certainty, and they only help to preserve the existing system, introducing fog, not clarity, into the minds of people. What did the party agitators say here on the VO on the draft amendments to the constitution, containing the most important provisions for the country's sovereignty about the supremacy of our law over international law? "Let's go better celebrate Lenin's birthday." That's it, finish!
        2. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 16 May 2020 12: 46 New
          +3
          Quote: hhhhhhh
          Lenin's work "Imperialism, as the Highest Stage of Capitalism" was passed and summarized at the institute.

          We were warned, but we did not believe, but now we are slurping a full spoon.
          1. hhhhhhh
            hhhhhhh 16 May 2020 13: 07 New
            +1
            It is necessary to force their children to read and take notes.))
      2. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 16 May 2020 11: 24 New
        11
        Quote: sabakina
        Did they all have the gift of foresight?

        I won’t say anything about the gift of foresight, but when the Germans began to be driven, these guys began to mow down as a fool and run away through the forests.
        After the DCK, my parents lived in the Smolensk region of the village. Pure, that on the border with the Kalinin region. Between the regions, the division passed through the Svitsky swamps for 60 km. width. In the village, the headmaster of the school was Stepichev, the local "hero" of the partisan movement. May 9 always performed at the club with a burka and a hat with a red ribbon. In the 70s, they began to issue certificates "Participant of the partisan movement", he received a "participant" and he was appointed to the regional center Dukhovshchina as a school director, and my father was transferred to Prechistoye, but when they began to give veteran certificates a couple of years later, Stepichev did not receive it. DISTRICT, the district party committee and the public raised a storm, "as a hero, but not recognized." The case was widely publicized and reached Moscow. We figured it out, the district committee and the district got a hat, since the "hero" turned out to be a deserter who was drafted into the Red Army, and he fled with his comrades to the Svitsky swamps, but did not go to the policemen and the "Khivi". And so, before the arrival of our troops, they sat in the swamps as "prisoners". With the arrival of the Red Army, they went out and introduced themselves as partisans, dealt with them, but did not jail, whom they took to the Red Army, and Stepichev was sent to school as a teacher. After the war, he already called himself a partisan and fooled the people. The result was simple, kicked out of the directors, with a ban on teaching children, but a week later he disappeared somewhere from the Dukhovshchina. There were other cases, but I can write about them later.
        1. Svarog51
          Svarog51 17 May 2020 20: 16 New
          0
          Interesting story. yes This means that the "Bloody FUCK" did not commit atrocities, but filtered the incomprehensible in the camps. That is, it worked in the interests of the state. There was no Internet then - a request can wait for weeks. But they worked and identified. Yes, and under the bullets they walked without a murmur, in order to save the state.
          P.S. My uncle is a tanker, he took Vienna and Budapest, and in Western Ukraine he was handed out. Half a year in hospitals, survived. How do I feel about all this?
      3. hhhhhhh
        hhhhhhh 16 May 2020 16: 58 New
        +1
        If they had foreseen then they fought for the Germans to the end, now they would be heroes in Ukraine and the EU.
    3. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
      Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 16 May 2020 10: 07 New
      +5
      And how did they know - on the eve of the forecasters talked and calmly went to the police to serve? No, the question is more complicated there. Read the materials of the Krasnodar process (I don’t remember the year exactly, but it seems like the 1960s?).
      1. 210ox
        210ox 16 May 2020 10: 16 New
        17
        Nobody then, at that difficult moment, knew what would happen. In the occupied territory, people were mostly intimidated, especially in prisoner of war camps. Yes, even to take us, couch heroes, it is not known how we would behave.
        1. major147
          major147 16 May 2020 11: 10 New
          +9
          Quote: 210ox
          Yes, even to take us, couch heroes, it is not known how we would behave.

          The war, even the "Chechen" one, perfectly tears off everything "superficial" from a person. At the first assault, it is clear who is who. He himself witnessed this.
          1. Lynx2000
            Lynx2000 16 May 2020 12: 38 New
            +2
            Quote: major147
            Quote: 210ox
            Yes, even to take us, couch heroes, it is not known how we would behave.

            The war, even the "Chechen" one, perfectly tears off everything "superficial" from a person. At the first assault, it is clear who is who. He himself witnessed this.

            I agree completely. Not only the databases show what a young guy is worth, but also the first days of the service, when there is no mother and folder nearby, you yourself need to "look after" yourself.

            Judging by the title, the author outlined a topic about young guys. I am sure, besides the upbringing by the family, society and the state (passionarity), personal character plays a small role. Based on this, a reaction to the effect occurs. Someone breaks down, shows cowardice, someone experiences what he sees, shows firmness (stubbornness) because of hatred and anger towards the enemy.
            Others, opportunists for the sake of well-being at the expense of allowance and plunder, went to serve the Germans. Even without the war, this contingent would be a "client of the URO". Eighteen-year-olds, even if they were children of “enemies of the Soviet regime”, were not ardent enemies of the Soviet regime like their ancestors, since they had no memory of their former life even from the words of their parents.
            Collaborationism among young people is relevant at all times ...
        2. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 16 May 2020 12: 52 New
          +3
          Quote: 210ox
          Nobody then, at that difficult moment, knew what would happen. In the occupied territory, people were mostly intimidated, especially in prisoner of war camps.

          Some walked out of fear for their lives, while others walked of their own free will. The latter were the most cruel. Some were convicted, others were hanged. This is the essence of the traitor.
        3. SOVIET UNION 2
          SOVIET UNION 2 16 May 2020 15: 00 New
          +2
          Are you intimidated or not? By whom? Germans or commissars? Since perestroika, we have been told that the population was intimidated by the commissars, the NKVD. The military was crushed by detachments. But take the occupied territories. There were also commissioners, NKVD, detachments? Why did people go to partisan units there? Yes, there were traitors. And in the 90s, former apparatchiks? Who are they? True, in the 90s no one signed up for partisans. So the question is
          Yes, even to take us, couch heroes, it is not known how we would behave.
          This is a matter of backfill. And what did you personally do in 1991-93? Which side are you on? Were there many heroes of the 91-93th year among us? We who lived in the 91-93th years who? Are we traitors or heroes? Who will they call us in 50 years?
        4. Marine engineer
          Marine engineer 16 May 2020 16: 20 New
          +1
          “No one then, at that difficult moment, knew what would happen. In the occupied territory, people were mostly intimidated ...... "

          Here is a story told by an eyewitness.
          The end of summer - the beginning of autumn 1941 Pskov region, Dnovsky district, Ogorovost village.
          A young woman, Ekaterina Volkova, worked in her garden, distant breaks were sometimes heard from the side of Staraya Rusa, but the war so far bypassed the village. At work, I did not notice how five Red Army men approached the house. Three of them had rifles. Asked to eat. She took what was out of the house, the soldiers ate and the one who was with them for the elder asked:
          - Are the Germans far from here?
          - In Pankratovo, four kilometers from us.
          - And in which direction?
          The woman indicated the direction.
          The elder turned to the others and said: “Well, guys and the end of our torment, we will soon eat from the belly, let's go!” And under the gaze of the peasant, all five walked toward the village occupied by the Germans. She never saw them again.

          Have these five become cops? I think so, although I would prefer that they hang out on a rope or rot in a camp.
    4. 210ox
      210ox 16 May 2020 10: 11 New
      +7
      But I do not need to poke! I didn’t drink at the broodershaft. And in that year, 1991, I worked as a hard worker at a power plant to feed my family.
      1. hhhhhhh
        hhhhhhh 16 May 2020 10: 14 New
        +4
        What makes you so special? What are you smoother than the rest?
        "to feed the family." - the policemen also went to feed the family.
        1. 210ox
          210ox 16 May 2020 10: 18 New
          13
          I am not special, just educated, and respecting the opinions of others. hi
          1. major147
            major147 16 May 2020 11: 12 New
            +3
            Quote: 210ox
            I am not special, just educated, and respecting the opinions of others. hi

            hi good
          2. The comment was deleted.
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. Svarog51
                  Svarog51 17 May 2020 21: 45 New
                  0
                  Well, you're not Kozma Minin, a friend of Pozharsky, you have a real name. I - as follows from NIKA - Sergey. How can I call you? hi
                  1. hhhhhhh
                    hhhhhhh 17 May 2020 21: 59 New
                    -1
                    I’m sorry, the 1998st century is in the yard, I’ve been on the Internet since XNUMX. The first rule I learned is never to use a real name. Second, never ask for real names. This knowledge is the responsibility. Why take too much.
                    You can just tell me "you", I will not be offended even once. Or by nickname.
                  2. Svarog51
                    Svarog51 17 May 2020 22: 17 New
                    +1
                    I can't, I'm sorry. I can’t address it as "Heych in the sixth degree". Can you write an assumed name? So at least humanly will be. The name also does not solve anything, if only you serve in a real one. And even then - you do not spread secret data - there are no complaints about you.
                    P.S. I’m really Sergey - I’m not afraid and not shy of my name. Father so named after his grandfather.
                  3. hhhhhhh
                    hhhhhhh 17 May 2020 22: 30 New
                    0
                    I am not a proletarian, I have something to lose besides chains.))))
                    "The name also does not solve anything" - everything decides.))) But this is not a discussion of personal and cybersecurity.
                    My question of determining yours is alien: May 9, 1945 is Victory Day for you?
                  4. Svarog51
                    Svarog51 17 May 2020 22: 41 New
                    0
                    Of course, I'm Russian.
                    I do not insist on a real name, but instead of hhhhhh you can write Ivan, Semyon, Peter, Vladimir - yes anything. How does this affect cybersecurity if you go online? The name does not play a role, the specialist will still comb out, but at least you can speak humanly. If you have graters with spices, then it’s better to keep silent. But you don’t have them, only a drawing. Otherwise, you would not have come out. Think for yourself - this is a failure.
                  5. hhhhhhh
                    hhhhhhh 17 May 2020 22: 48 New
                    0
                    So historically)))) This is login)))
                    The name Kozma Minin is written.
                    There is no way to hide from specialists for a long time.)))
                    Why do children substitute, work, etc. by disseminating personal data.
                  6. Svarog51
                    Svarog51 17 May 2020 22: 52 New
                    0
                    Well then I’ll ask, if I turn by the name of Kozma, will you be offended? In principle, it’s quite a Russian name for itself.
                    P.S. Sea epaulets - urgent or ...?
                  7. hhhhhhh
                    hhhhhhh 17 May 2020 22: 53 New
                    0
                    Never offended.))) Three years. Surface fleet.
                  8. Svarog51
                    Svarog51 17 May 2020 22: 58 New
                    +1
                    I hope not to offend the question - which of the fleets? And if not a secret, what kind of ship? Curiosity is not idle, to know in comments - what the commentator has, in the sense of experience.
                  9. hhhhhhh
                    hhhhhhh 17 May 2020 23: 01 New
                    -1
                    Personal information.)))
                    I went out to sea. More than three times.))))
                    I have more civilian experience.
                  10. Svarog51
                    Svarog51 17 May 2020 23: 06 New
                    +1
                    Well there is no way. I’ll fly for curiosity now. I’ll survive.
                    I wish you and your family health in this harsh time. I hope not bored with bad questions?
  • SOVIET UNION 2
    SOVIET UNION 2 16 May 2020 14: 23 New
    +4
    Maybe they did not know that in 1945 there would be a victory? Or did they already know about the arrival of Gorbachev? Or then was their trial exit? And hoped in 50 years to become the heroes of a new country !? Today we condemn them. And what did their descendants do after 50 years? In general, the situation is rather strange. Since June 22, people were satisfied with the system and the country. But there was an opposition! Those who were satisfied with the system and the country won in the 45th! But 50 years after June 22, those who were not satisfied with that system won! Probably the motives and actions of those who acted then against the system and are now similar !? Today we condemn those departed traitors and accomplices. They did everything wrong! What is happening now? What is the difference between the present and what is the similarity with the former present? As long as we remember May 9th. But on November 7 we already forget! So this is the 1917th year! Then there were two revolutions! Bourgeois and socialist! We don’t remember February either! Then what power does the current government support? November is damned. February is forgotten. But today there are many fans of Bavarian beer and the German automobile industry! So what? Are you against the international division of labor? Against integration? I am for regional autonomy. Europe in itself. Russia is also independent. The Asia-Pacific region is also autonomous, well, or divided into China and the rest. The states are also independent, as are the countries of South America. What am I talking about? Yes, we live under the descendants of those people who went to the service of that European Union. The descendants of those today serve the European Union (globalization). As above, so many comers and below. How many comments have already been, why should we do it ourselves if we don’t know how and do it badly? Better buy there! AvtoVAZ sucks! Not tired of attaching yourself? How's the ditty of the Gorbachev era ?! My neighbor’s horseradish is big, I’ve been attached to it! Condemning the collaborators of those times, let's look around today. Today there are no accomplices? Then why do we not have advanced automotive, shipbuilding, aircraft manufacturing and so on? Who took these laurels from us, or did we give them away? In general, an article about accomplices of both those years and present. Therefore, do not think that it was then, it was a long time ago! It is today.
    1. ser56
      ser56 16 May 2020 21: 31 New
      -1
      Quote: SOVIET UNION 2
      Today we condemn those departed traitors and accomplices.

      But do you condemn those who called for the defeat of Russia in 1914? And he wanted to turn the imperialist war into a civil war? hi
      1. hhhhhhh
        hhhhhhh 17 May 2020 21: 38 New
        +1
        Maybe for starters you will re-read Lenin and you will understand what he wrote about and here you will tell, but you will not multiply fakes.
        1. ser56
          ser56 17 May 2020 21: 48 New
          -1
          Quote: hhhhhhh
          Maybe for a start you

          I understand that your parents raised you badly, so you poke everyone ... request
          Quote: hhhhhhh
          re-read Lenin and understand what he wrote

          I read it this way, outlined and passed Marxism perfectly hi
          Quote: hhhhhhh
          and tell me here
          I didn’t work to teach the illiterate - the thesis "the transformation of the modern imperialist war into a civil war is the only correct proletarian slogan" VIL "" War and Russian Social Democracy. " PPP vol. 26 p. 15 You know how to search the Web - read the work - it is short hi
          1. hhhhhhh
            hhhhhhh 17 May 2020 22: 05 New
            +2
            If you were on the Internet from the very beginning you would know, here is freedom and democracy. It does not depend on age, position in society and other conventions. There is real freedom. Contacting impersonally I think is not very cultural. I’m not talking to everyone, but I’m specifically addressing you.

            On the second question. Do you consider the imperialist war for the interests of a handful of the rich better than the internal showdown with the rich? How many Russian peasants died in the First World War? The peasants were not even told that they were dying for the straits.
            It is better civil when they kill those who drove the Russian peasants to die for Nicholas 2 the bloody.
            Or are you for the bloody Nicholas?
            Are you ready to go fight for markets today?
            1. ser56
              ser56 17 May 2020 23: 43 New
              -1
              Quote: hhhhhhh
              If you were online from the start

              Quote: ser56
              I understand that your parents raised you badly, so you poke everyone in a row ..

              add, I went online in 1992 wink
              Quote: hhhhhhh
              depends on age, position in society and other conventions. There is real freedom

              you are stupid and notorious ... request
              Quote: hhhhhhh
              How many Russian peasants died in World War I

              how many Russian peasants died for their homeland since at least 1380? that you are universal and stupid - it is trite ... request
              Quote: hhhhhhh
              Or are you for the bloody Nicholas?
              Are you ready to go fight for markets today?

              Marxist, it’s always Russophobe, it’s different request So, a test for stupidity - why does the US Navy and army kill around the world?
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 17 May 2020 23: 58 New
                +3
                Quote: ser56
                I went online in 1992

                Don’t you breach? I didn’t hear about the Internet in 1992.
                1. ser56
                  ser56 18 May 2020 13: 07 New
                  0
                  Quote: Mordvin 3
                  Don’t you breach?

                  decided to be rude?
                  Quote: Mordvin 3
                  I didn’t hear about the Internet in 1992.

                  It's your problems... request In the beginning there was mail and a file server ...
                2. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 18 May 2020 16: 03 New
                  0
                  Quote: ser56
                  decided to be rude?

                  In no case. I bought the first computer in the 91st, but I never heard of any Internet.
                3. ser56
                  ser56 18 May 2020 20: 22 New
                  0
                  Quote: Mordvin 3
                  I bought the first computer in the 91st, but I never heard of any Internet.

                  unfortunately, the Internet now understands one service - www request But initially there were others - mail, FTP, mailing lists ...
          2. hhhhhhh
            hhhhhhh 18 May 2020 08: 29 New
            +1
            "Why are the US Navy and Army killing all over the world?" - for money and sales markets. no options. Do not carry the same democracy.))))
            "how many Russian peasants have died for the Motherland since at least 1380" - they are for the Tsar. The king is the anointed of God. In 1941 for the Soviet Motherland.
            "you are stupid and notorious .." - I'm talking about spelling, and you put me diagnoses. Can I send you samples of my handwriting for analysis?)))))
            "Marxist, this is always a Russophobe," - what kind of person will you be? Religion and what is your ism.
            I am Russian, Christianity, political economy in development.
            "I will add, I went online in 1992" - have you been communicating with everyone impersonally since then?))) Have you heard about pronouns?)))
            How purely sporting interest are you connecting? What is your brand of modem?
    2. ser56
      ser56 17 May 2020 23: 44 New
      -1
      Quote: hhhhhhh
      Maybe for starters you will re-read Lenin and you will understand what he wrote about and here you will tell, but you will not multiply fakes.

      I answered you on VIL exactly in essence, you ran away from the answer - you are illiterate and cowardly request
      1. hhhhhhh
        hhhhhhh 18 May 2020 08: 20 New
        +1
        I have not yet seen a single argument besides the assessments of my mind. Let's discuss the imperialist war and the civil war, what's the difference? I myself can discuss.)))
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. hhhhhhh
            hhhhhhh 18 May 2020 13: 23 New
            0
            “I didn’t work to teach the illiterate - the thesis“ the transformation of the modern imperialist war into a civil war is the only correct proletarian slogan ”VIL“ War and Russian Social Democracy. ”“ PPP vol. 26 p.15 V ”

            "I gave you a link to the work of VIL, where this thesis was introduced .." - you have a lot of knowledge, then why are you addressing me in the plural? I am alone, I am not many. You "you" do not distinguish from "you"?))))
            So why did Russia need an imperialist war? What for!!!!
            1. ser56
              ser56 18 May 2020 13: 42 New
              0
              Quote: hhhhhhh
              So why did Russia need an imperialist war? What for!!!!

              why did Russia have a REV, the invasion of Napoleon or Batu
            2. hhhhhhh
              hhhhhhh 18 May 2020 13: 43 New
              0
              I will write a complaint about you for verbiage. I never wrote, but I will write to you.
  • vladcub
    vladcub 16 May 2020 16: 41 New
    +1
    Is it close to claiming that they contributed to the victory?
    1. hhhhhhh
      hhhhhhh 18 May 2020 13: 24 New
      -1
      Quote: vladcub
      Is it close to claiming that they contributed to the victory?

      In Ukraine and the Baltic ONLY they beat the Nazis, the Soviet Union prevented them from winning.
  • Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
    Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 16 May 2020 10: 10 New
    10
    Yes, we are traitors. I don’t know how others are, but I have been living with this since 1991. And I curse myself that then I and others like me did not defend my country - the USSR! There is no forgiveness to us. We are cowards and traitors.
    1. hhhhhhh
      hhhhhhh 16 May 2020 10: 46 New
      -5
      Children must be prepared for a new war. At least redeem it.
      1. Doccor18
        Doccor18 16 May 2020 11: 01 New
        +1
        What war? With whom? They, the young generation, listen to foreign music, watch foreign films, stand in line for all sorts of BIG-MAK-DAKKs, they learn English properly, because they should take it in the ECCE later. Ok, eu, sori - this is a clip of the most common words. Who will they fight with?
        1. hhhhhhh
          hhhhhhh 16 May 2020 11: 16 New
          -3
          With those who come to kill them. How is it in Ukraine, in the Baltic states? The descendants of the Nazis bank. Waiting for them to rest themselves?
          Young people, unlike us, have lived under capitalism all their lives and know more about the "advantages" of capitalism.
          1. tihonmarine
            tihonmarine 16 May 2020 12: 57 New
            +2
            Quote: hhhhhhh
            With those who come to kill them. How is it in Ukraine, in the Baltic states?

            I live in the Baltic states, but somehow there isn’t such a wild Russophobia, if some kind of rubbish speaks out, there are enough of them everywhere. But there is no Russophobia, especially among young people.
            1. hhhhhhh
              hhhhhhh 16 May 2020 13: 06 New
              -6
              The ban on Russian soil, the Baltic states, to study in Russian is it really Russophobia? The Baltic states were beguiled, Germans, and not Russian, forbade speaking Baltic languages.
              You will have to pay for Russophobia, the Russians will start investing when the last Baltic in the Baltic states disappears (tautology))))), wait a short time.
          2. DDT
            DDT 17 May 2020 20: 39 New
            -2
            Tell me, have you been in the Baltic states and Ukraine for a long time? Ato, in tongue you scratch yours at the LDPR rallies, but essentially, like Comrade Chernomyrdin? What are you calling a sick war for? I’m not letting my son fight. Let him live. You probably have no children?
            1. hhhhhhh
              hhhhhhh 17 May 2020 21: 44 New
              0
              XXI century in the yard. It is enough for me to go to the websites of state bodies of Ukraine and the Baltic states. Can you show me the Russian language there? Although the majority of the population use it in life in the Baltic states and in Ukraine. After the departure of the UK, Russian seems to be one of the most common in the EU.)))))
              “I’m not going to let my son go to fight.” - you will send him to the police, it is better to send him abroad on the run.
              I have four.
              Have you noticed NATO near Pskov?
              1. DDT
                DDT 17 May 2020 22: 07 New
                -3
                Well, let yours defend mine. Thou shalt not go beyond Pskov and will not pass. And I won’t give it to the police. They’ll come from the draft board, I’ll cut it. Occupants will come, I’ll cut it. I won’t let my sons go for the abstract interests of the state, whether of the oligarchy, of the Fuhrer all kinds of war and leaders there.
                Kozma, and now seriously: well, from what on independent, sorry in independent Ukraine or in the Baltic, Russian should be state? Or in Central Asia or the Caucasus? Why did you decide that everyone around should learn Russian? Would you like it so much? And wanting is not harmful. You tell me more, now in the open spaces of the Racean, judging by the statements of the national courts, 2 million Central Asians are hanging around. So let's declare the Uzbek language in Russia to be state-declared too? Or Armenian? There are fewer Armenians in Armenia than in Russia. Where is the logic, Kuzya?
                1. hhhhhhh
                  hhhhhhh 17 May 2020 22: 25 New
                  0
                  Paid lesson for you. (When knowledge comes to you, ask for the card number)
                  1. Russian language of the UN
                  2. The Russian language of interethnic communication, how do Lithuanians, Estonians, Armenians, Uzbeks, Ukrainians, residents of Central Asia and the Caucasus communicate among themselves? The languages ​​are completely different, and the peoples communicate. Moreover, Russian does not oblige to strictly know pronunciation, grammar, Gerund. We do not even have strict rules where to put what words.
                  3. Until 1991, Russian was the state language in all republics of the USSR.
                  4. In Finland, 10 percent of Swedes, and the language of the state. Switzerland 4 languages. Belgium 2. Canada 2.
                  5. In the Baltic States and Ukraine, less than 50% of the population speaks state language, almost 100% speak Russian, except for SS fighters who returned to their homeland.
                  6. Until 1917, there were no complaints against Russia for the Baltic states. This is Russian land for which the Russians paid with Russian money. The land was bought with the Chukhites to whom Lenin gave independence. Then the Central Committee of the CPSU. The Russians have not returned any money for our property yet.
                  7. "I will not let my sons in for the abstract interests of the state" - an article about you and your sons, and here they are discussing who could do that. You are a prime example. Let them ask you: "why are you always ready to betray your Motherland."
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                    1. hhhhhhh
                      hhhhhhh 18 May 2020 13: 19 New
                      -1
                      This is not a wiki, this is a Soviet education.
                      I feel sorry for your children. What did you do with the cops you decided to give your children to after the Victory? They hung.
                      What is your native language? "ischo" - written "more".
                      "Each territory has its own laws." - International law does not exist?
                      “Nobody needs it.” - Napoleon, Hitler, Karl and others disagree with you, they needed to.
                    2. DDT
                      DDT 18 May 2020 13: 27 New
                      -1
                      Yes, you do not have Soviet education, otherwise I would not have written so much heresy in one phrase.
                      You have pity on your own ... You let such savages out into the world ... they will get drunk because of powerlessness, when there is no one to hang, and they will curse you from the sobering-up center with their last words - "they say, dad hoopoe, pumped our muscles instead of brains.
                      Yes, international law does not exist. There are conventions that are decisive in the territory of their operation, and national laws prevail over supranational bodies around the world. So the UN is yours, bullshit and whim, and no one’s decree.
                      The time of Napoleons, Karlov and Adolfov is long gone, and their descendants play VoT and do no harm to anyone
                      So comment further, "descendant of the partisans" No. No.
                    3. hhhhhhh
                      hhhhhhh 18 May 2020 13: 32 New
                      0
                      Do you want to tell NATO to conduct exercises near the borders of the Russian Federation, and not Iran?
                      "The time of Napoleons, Karlovs and Adolphs is long gone, and their descendants play WOT and do no harm to anyone" - have you just come out of a coma? Iraq destroyed, Afghanistan, Syria. Libya, Somalia there is no harm to anyone? I still don't remember Yugoslavia and Ukraine.))))
                      You are funny, traitors.))) You are funny dandelions.)))
                    4. DDT
                      DDT 18 May 2020 13: 39 New
                      -1
                      ... yes you yourself are funny. Russia is not Iraq, not Afghanistan and not Yugoslavia. And let the teachings continue. None of them are cold or hot. But in general, why did you suddenly decide to compare the Russian Federation with Somalia? Is everything really so bad in the homeland of unparalleled analogs in the world of rocket torpedoes? Well, you betray further on the net, maybe the descendants of the Karls and Napoleons really believe and again 25
                    5. hhhhhhh
                      hhhhhhh 18 May 2020 13: 42 New
                      -1
                      What country do you live in? May 9, 1945 Victory Day?
                    6. DDT
                      DDT 18 May 2020 13: 52 New
                      -1
                      You are not supposed to know. Yes, May 9th. In my family, I’m also celebrating on the 7th of May and on November XNUMXth. But I won’t fight my children in any war. Neither in conquest, nor in backgammon-liberation. And when all the fathers of the world didn’t let them in either, then they would no longer need either missiles or torpedoes or natymata exercises.
                    7. hhhhhhh
                      hhhhhhh 18 May 2020 13: 58 New
                      -1
                      By not supposed, it is clear from which.))))
                      "And I won't let my children go to war in any war." - where will you hide? Someone should die for you, and you sit in the cellar?)))
                      "And when all the fathers of the world will not let them in either" - what kind of religion is this?
                    8. DDT
                      DDT 18 May 2020 14: 00 New
                      -2
                      You can not understand. Okay, good luck with exposing your insidious plans nat and dash, sincerely I wish your children not to have to fight and so on and so forth
                    9. hhhhhhh
                      hhhhhhh 18 May 2020 14: 03 New
                      -1
                      Made me laugh for a week. Thank you very much.))))
                      "so that your children don't have to fight" - Thank you for your wish, but they will learn to kill enemies.
                      "We are peaceful people, but our armored train is on a side track ..."
                    10. DDT
                      DDT 25 May 2020 20: 31 New
                      -2
                      Yes ... will you learn to kill them yourself? Well, you're right dad of the year. Then I wish you to grow wiser, all the best to you, good and eternal. hi hi
                    11. The comment was deleted.
                    12. The comment was deleted.
                    13. The comment was deleted.
                2. hhhhhhh
                  hhhhhhh 26 May 2020 09: 05 New
                  -2
                  The administration considered that I was trolling you with the question "May 9, 1945 Victory Day?" Today it is not trolling, but the defining question "friend or foe". It turns out that May 9, 1945 is not Victory Day for the VO Administration.
                  All questions and discussions were within the framework of the article. The topic of the article is "how to become a traitor."
                  Administration silver coins do not burn a pocket?))))
                  But I teach children to shoot better, so that the coming civilized Europeans do not have time to raise their hands, then there will be no question of surrendering themselves.
                3. DDT
                  DDT 26 May 2020 12: 11 New
                  -1
                  You just take too much on yourself, it’s not up to you orphan and wretched to decide who is here and who is stranger. And of course you know better from your house who to teach there and what ... You just got tired of me and the administration ... wink wink wink
                4. hhhhhhh
                  hhhhhhh 26 May 2020 12: 47 New
                  -1
                  I have no illusions, I know that VO works for enemies with you.
                  Do not be a crybaby at the trial of history.
                  Quote from an article about you:
                  In fact, those who in 1941 did not consider their state the workers and peasants, nor the Red Army, which defended him, in the country, alas, was enough.
                  By the way, it was they who ran in the first place to sign up for the police created by the invaders and for the punitive teams of Schutzmann-schaft.

                  For me, Russia is the State of Workers and Peasants.
  • Galleon
    Galleon 16 May 2020 12: 10 New
    +2
    How did we choose to be traitors in 1991? We thought it would be more money and a hundred varieties of sausage.

    Perhaps, personally, such a choice stood before you. And my steamer in 1991 was on military service in Cam Ranh, no one offered us to betray or choose varieties of sausages. We served in the firm belief that the army is out of politics and the leadership of the country and the party will figure it out on their own, because it is their responsibility. Therefore, there is no need to use the pronoun "we" and smear everyone here with a substance that none of us produced.
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 16 May 2020 13: 29 New
      +1
      Quote: Galleon
      And my ship in 1991 was in combat service in Kamrani, nobody offered us to betray or choose sausages.

      I also worked in Western Sahara at that time. He returned home in September to another state.
    2. hhhhhhh
      hhhhhhh 17 May 2020 22: 26 New
      0
      And in the 90s, when did the factories demolish the pioneer camps?
  • Pashhenko Nikolay
    Pashhenko Nikolay 16 May 2020 19: 18 New
    0
    We didn’t choose to be traitors. We followed our leaders as faithfully as before. But as it turned out, they took the wrong road. They betrayed the country and people.
    1. sniperino
      sniperino 16 May 2020 22: 21 New
      0
      Quote: Pashhenko Nikolay
      We followed our leaders as faithfully as before.
      "Before" - is it in the era of decay of tribal society? It's time to end with the leaders: it is better to be devoted to an idea, business, homeland, family, friendship, than to trust strangers in such important matters.
      1. Sling cutter
        Sling cutter 16 May 2020 22: 35 New
        +2
        Quote: sniperino
        it is better to be faithful to the idea, business, homeland, family, friendship, than to trust strangers in such important matters.

        Curious, but nothing is clear.
        1. sniperino
          sniperino 16 May 2020 22: 39 New
          +1
          Quote: Stroporez
          Curious, but nothing is clear.
          It happens. Then they ask questions.
          1. Sling cutter
            Sling cutter 16 May 2020 22: 56 New
            +2
            Quote: sniperino
            It happens. Then they ask questions.

            "A miracle comes unwittingly, When you don't expect it at all, - And the beetle whistles and the bull flies, You don't know where you are going. And you meet wonderful people on untrodden paths ..."
            What is your idea?
            1. sniperino
              sniperino 17 May 2020 00: 08 New
              0
              Quote: Stroporez
              You meet wonderful people ... "
              What is your idea?
              Poetically, you went personal. But this is not a club for acquaintances with interesting people, and I try to pull here less of what concerns me personally, if I do not see in some fragment of experience the nearest suitable illustration of the universally significant that is being said. Posing as an example of service to the cause, idea, etc. for the amusement of the respectable public I will not. I see more sense in arguing with the authors and participants, or answering questions like "What is your evidence ...". It's kind of a deal too
              1. Sling cutter
                Sling cutter 17 May 2020 00: 26 New
                +2
                Quote: sniperino
                But this is not a club to meet interesting people, and I try

                I agree with you, especially since the political creed of many of our fellow citizens is increasingly converging, all the rest are nuances.
  • mr.ZinGer
    mr.ZinGer 16 May 2020 08: 31 New
    11
    What is the article about?
    Type were traitors and betrayed for various reasons.
    Again a set of common words and zero information.
    The author even brought some figures ...
    1. Volodin
      Volodin 16 May 2020 09: 30 New
      +6
      Quote: mr.ZinGer
      What is the article about? The author even brought some figures ...

      It seems like the article is called "How Soviet guys ended up in Hipo". And it is about HOW it happened and could happen. I just cannot agree that there is "zero information".

      If the article was called "How many Soviet guys ended up in Hipo," I think the author would have cited figures, if, of course, he has them.
      1. mr.ZinGer
        mr.ZinGer 16 May 2020 09: 54 New
        +7
        My attitude to such articles is an empty set of words, like the editorial of Soviet newspapers. Everything is obvious and without the author’s explanation.
        Any normal article should contain facts, figures, analysis.
        And this is a "lyrical essay" on the subject of policemen.
        1. Volodin
          Volodin 16 May 2020 10: 10 New
          +7
          Quote: mr.ZinGer
          My attitude to such articles is an empty set of words, like the editorial of Soviet newspapers. Everything is obvious and without the author’s explanation.

          According to the metric, more than 400 people under the age of 25 have read over the past time. I do not think that for the young generation everything is as obvious as for you. Many of them, I am sure, heard for the first time about the concept of Hipo and about the age of the call to the end of the 30s.

          Well, how the author submitted the information is a separate question.

          If you are ready to write your own version on "VO", with facts, figures and analysis, on this topic, then, I think, the readers will only be glad and grateful.
          1. mr.ZinGer
            mr.ZinGer 16 May 2020 10: 18 New
            +4
            I will answer with the words of the character of Vladimir Basov
            "You don't have to write, don't write"
            This is not given to me.
            1. Volodin
              Volodin 16 May 2020 10: 37 New
              +5
              Quote: mr.ZinGer
              This is not given to me.

              Well. Again, the standard response from critics of other people's materials. Sorry...
              1. mr.ZinGer
                mr.ZinGer 16 May 2020 10: 42 New
                +1
                Some of the French classics answered the question “Why are there so many good critics and few good writers?” “You can always make good vinegar from bad wine”
                1. Volodin
                  Volodin 16 May 2020 11: 23 New
                  +1
                  Well, if you consider yourself a good critic, then of course.
                  1. mr.ZinGer
                    mr.ZinGer 16 May 2020 11: 43 New
                    +3
                    I criticize myself (not good, not bad)
                    But I can distinguish a good article from a bad one.
              2. Avior
                Avior 16 May 2020 10: 57 New
                +2
                Something in the restaurant will bring you salted help instead of soup, and you eat and kept quiet if the cook himself does not have a diploma :)
                And you have a diploma, go and. cook yourself, but there’s nothing to criticize. smile
                1. Volodin
                  Volodin 16 May 2020 11: 21 New
                  +1
                  Especially when a person often comes to this "restaurant", but for some reason chooses exactly "salted soups" ...
                  1. Avior
                    Avior 16 May 2020 11: 32 New
                    +3
                    Previously, in all catering establishments hung a book of complaints and suggestions.
                    And which is typical, the cooks did not demand from you a diploma and did not ask how many times you have been here
                    There are a lot of interesting authors at VO, there is a reason to go here, but that doesn’t mean that if you often go in, you should be silent, if a specific article didn’t cause you enthusiasm hi
                    1. Volodin
                      Volodin 16 May 2020 16: 52 New
                      +1
                      Here I am about the same. It is necessary to have a rare variety of masochism, each time going for the dish of that cook, whose cooking is not to his liking.
                      1. Avior
                        Avior 16 May 2020 18: 41 New
                        -1
                        That’s if he doesn’t cook well.
                        And if not all?
                        But in general, the conversation was not about that.
    2. Free wind
      Free wind 16 May 2020 09: 36 New
      +5
      More than a million, not counting the Muslim and Kalmyk battalions.
    3. Kuroneko
      Kuroneko 16 May 2020 10: 42 New
      +1
      Quote: mr.ZinGer
      What is the article about?
      Type were traitors and betrayed for various reasons.

      Well, at least that such were, is and will always be:
      However, among the future Hitler minions were those who were talking about a mortal insult to Soviet power hid the usual bestial desire to rob their fellow countrymen and to cover themselves with power to them.

      And regardless of time, country and race.
      By the way, it seems that even the Strugatsky (who had not yet gotten into liberalism - although there was something for that, thank you, Nikita Sergeich!) At one time they were ironic about such sub-men - who are ready to build communism tomorrow - but! strictly on their six hundredths. = 3
    4. Alexga
      Alexga 16 May 2020 12: 47 New
      0
      The author even brought some figures ...

      1. Alexga
        Alexga 16 May 2020 12: 49 New
        0
        Immediately indicate the source:
        COUNCIL OF THE FEDERATION
        OF THE FEDERAL MEETING OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION

        ANALYTICAL DEPARTMENT OF THE STAFF OF THE FEDERATION COUNCIL
        This is from the Analytical Gazette.
        1. APIS
          APIS 17 May 2020 14: 14 New
          +1
          A specific originator is indicated there - fractionally. Believing in these figures is ridiculous. For example, Kalmyks, Cossacks, and Belarusians poured into 100 thousand ROAs, as did Balkan emigrants from the security corps. One and the same group, for example, Gilya-Rodionov, changed its name three times and eventually passed to the partisans, it was counted in all forms as different parts.
          Do not forget about forced mobilization. In the Lokotsky gang, in Belarus, etc.
          1. Alexga
            Alexga 17 May 2020 14: 33 New
            0
            I specifically cited a source, the source is referred to by the administration of the highest government body in the Russian Federation. And this, you see, is not a yellow newspaper. These data are described in more detail in 2 issues of the Analytical Bulletins for 2006. More accurate data on these issues is available only in the archives of the KGB-FSB, but they will be classified. I can send it to the box, if interested. Over the past 30 years I have been studying the topic of traitors very carefully, according to various sources, and ours, and ihim, good, now it can be found. Now in the Russian Federation the data that I have cited is official data.
            1. nalogoplatelschik
              nalogoplatelschik 20 May 2020 13: 52 New
              0
              Pay close attention to the "source" from which you draw information. How would you not be horrified.
  • Sotskiy
    Sotskiy 16 May 2020 08: 54 New
    +9
    However, one should not forget that by this moment the enemy had already seized significant territories of our country, on which they simply did not manage to carry out a comprehensive mobilization. Here is the first source of potential conscripts in the ranks of the police ...

    Yeah, you are the author, tell the Young Guard of Krasnodon or the soldiers of numerous partisan detachments.
    Something I did not understand the purpose of this essay. Like everything was not so clear as Soviet propaganda draws us, give the word to the "other" side?
    If for "buns" or out of cowardice someone went over to the side of the enemy, then he is an enemy. What is there to discuss "shades of gray", why they got there and how. Otherwise, we will again slide down to the "innocently" repressed "bloody rage" white and fluffy lambs.
    1. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins 16 May 2020 09: 17 New
      10
      My grandfather was 1941 years old in 15. His father was immediately called up (he died the same year), and of course he was not pulled into the police by his grandfather for infancy, but they tried to find out twice to Germany (he escaped from the railway station). But he looked enough for two years so much that when ours returned, he put pressure on himself and the Red Army for a year!
      1. mr.ZinGer
        mr.ZinGer 16 May 2020 10: 03 New
        +5
        Another "working off" from Mr. Kharaluzhny.
      2. Driver d
        Driver d 16 May 2020 21: 17 New
        +1
        In Ukraine, one of my grandfathers was still taken to Germany, another at the age of 16 seemed to be "partisan" somewhere, after the war six months in training and to western Ukraine, a month later Bandera's troops massacred his squad at night, he and his comrade were not cut, six months in hospitals and home I was discharged, I was ashamed to say, and it is impossible why I returned from the army so early.
    2. Volodin
      Volodin 16 May 2020 09: 37 New
      +2
      Quote: Sovetskiy
      Something I did not understand the purpose of this essay. Like everything was not so clear as Soviet propaganda draws us, give the word to the "other" side?

      And if you still fantasize, then you can dig deeper: "The author is an enemy of the people, he must be handed over to the competent authorities ...", isn't that so.
      Where is there about "Soviet propaganda"? Where are the "shades of gray"?

      Or that, "there weren't any policemen at all," so the author had to write, or something ...

      We are trying to search for a black cat in a dark room.
      1. Sotskiy
        Sotskiy 16 May 2020 09: 48 New
        +1
        Quote: Volodin
        And if you still fantasize, then you can dig deeper: "The author is an enemy of the people, he must be handed over to the competent authorities ...", isn't that so.

        Of course of course. We do not know how otherwise. lol And while you are fantasizing, aren't you?
        1. Volodin
          Volodin 16 May 2020 09: 56 New
          +1
          Quote: Sovetskiy
          And while you are fantasizing, aren't you?

          No, not so.

          Quote: Sovetskiy
          Something I did not understand the purpose of this essay. Like everything was not so clear as Soviet propaganda draws us, give the word to the "other" side?
          - Here is an example of your fantasies that you yourself brought.
          1. Sotskiy
            Sotskiy 16 May 2020 10: 00 New
            -1
            Quote: Volodin
            Quote: Sovetskiy
            And while you are fantasizing, aren't you?
            No, not so.

            Quote: Volodin
            And if you still fantasize, then you can dig deeper: "The author is an enemy of the people, he must be handed over to the competent authorities ...", isn't it?

            So is it then regarded as a statement or an accusation against me?
            1. Volodin
              Volodin 16 May 2020 10: 13 New
              0
              I believe, exactly the same as your statement about "not everything is so simple" and "Soviet propaganda".
    3. sniperino
      sniperino 16 May 2020 11: 23 New
      +2
      Quote: Sovetskiy
      If for "buns" or out of cowardice someone went over to the side of the enemy, then he is an enemy.
      If for "buns" or out of cowardice, then this is not just an enemy, but a traitor, which is much worse. But if before that for many children of murdered nobles, priests, Cossacks, "kulaks and podkulachnikov" the main enemy was the Soviet regime, then it is difficult to shove them all together into traitors, so as not to break the globe and tear the owl. They were enemies, that's a fact.
  • bubalik
    bubalik 16 May 2020 09: 17 New
    +6
    ,,, in addition to 1) ideological.
    2) those who, under any political regime, try to stay afloat.
    3) prisoners of war, for whom service in the auxiliary police was the only way to get out of the Nazi concentration camp and survive.
    ,,, you can add 4) people who were forced to take up arms and fasten a police bandage on their sleeves under the threat of physical violence over them and their relatives.
    5) who went to the police on the instructions of underground organizations and guerrilla unit commanders in order to supply them with information about the plans and plans of the enemy.
    1. sabakina
      sabakina 16 May 2020 10: 21 New
      +3
      Quote: bubalik
      5) who went to the police on the instructions of underground organizations and guerrilla unit commanders in order to supply them with information about the plans and plans of the enemy.
      There were three of them in the film "Calling Fire on Ourselves". Kostya Povarov - policeman, Gavrila Anufrievich Sinakov - headman,
      Semen -... If my memory serves me right, burgomaster.
  • knn54
    knn54 16 May 2020 09: 22 New
    +9
    I would not want many commentators to be at that time.
    He talked in 1968 with one of these policemen (Kharkov, Cold Mountain).
    Widower with a child, elderly sick parents. The Germans created a team from people like him. But they did not participate in the repressions, they even warned of raids.
    They didn’t knock, but simply patrolled.
    When our .so Smershvians came to understand (the locals stood up) and gave a chance to rehabilitate themselves.
    For 1,5 years of fighting, the interlocutor was awarded the Order and several medals.
    Not all of the "team" returned.
  • A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 16 May 2020 09: 26 New
    +6
    Quote: mr.ZinGer
    The author even brought some figures

    Numbers are not necessary. The numbers will be bad. They will not like, will cause undue tension in the discussion. And it doesn’t matter anymore. The author gave a correct assessment of the phenomenon. Dot.
    1. cost
      cost 16 May 2020 09: 47 New
      +3
      why point? rather, it will be a dash, dot, dot, dash
      1. bober1982
        bober1982 16 May 2020 17: 38 New
        0
        Quote: Rich
        rather, it will be a dash, dot, dot, dash

        It turns out that the author's accurate assessment of the phenomenon, something like "Operation b"
        (see Morse Code)
  • Free wind
    Free wind 16 May 2020 09: 44 New
    +1
    In the photo, if there are obvious races on the sides, then in the center it’s specifically military.
  • Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
    Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 16 May 2020 10: 01 New
    +3
    There was no justification for the traitors and no!
    1. major147
      major147 16 May 2020 11: 22 New
      +1
      Quote: Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
      There was no justification for the traitors and no!

      You need not look for excuses, but reasons. For example, I am not sure that if a coup d'etat took place tomorrow in the country, then some of those present here at the call of the new authorities will not pick up machine guns and, wearing white armbands, will not go to exterminate the "Putinists."
  • hhhhhhh
    hhhhhhh 16 May 2020 10: 17 New
    -7
    Quote: 210ox
    But I do not need to poke! I didn’t drink at the broodershaft. And in that year, 1991, I worked as a hard worker at a power plant to feed my family.

    Everyone wants benefits for themselves; nobody wants equality. What makes you think that I have no right to poke you? How did you determine your status?
  • prior
    prior 16 May 2020 10: 34 New
    10
    It is not regrettable, but it was the catastrophic retreat of the Red Army in 1941 that put millions of people before the choice: to live or die.
    Which of the living people faced such a choice, provided that the army that is supposed to defend is defeated and flees, or is hundreds of thousands surrendered?
    Someone smart said: Do not judge, but you will not be judged.
    War is dirt, blood, death. Live in this and not get dirty ?! Neither masks, not hygienic gloves will help here ...
    I do not condone betrayal, but I do not rush to condemn without understanding ....
    1. ser56
      ser56 16 May 2020 21: 28 New
      +1
      Quote: prior
      set millions of people to choose: live or die.

      exactly! and that’s why the SV took its grudge against the innocent - who fell into occupation ... request The stigma was! Like it’s their fault that the Red Army was defeated and draped under the wise leadership of the temporary detention center and others who put monuments ... request
  • Moskovit
    Moskovit 16 May 2020 10: 47 New
    +6
    Everyone loved talking, we just stood in a cordon. We just went with rifles. But this is ridiculous, the Germans and their servants tried to bind the policemen with blood so that there was no turning back.
    Whatever the reason, honor and glory to those who went to the partisans. And the eternal shame on the traitors of the motherland!
  • Doccor18
    Doccor18 16 May 2020 11: 14 New
    +2
    Betrayal is betrayal.
    And it cannot be justified. However, we are also not entitled to judge all of them.
    When the barrel of a machine gun looks at you, it is not known who and how would have acted.
    And after a heavy civil war, only 17 years have passed. Many people still remembered the years of life under the king. War is a terrible creation of mankind. And yet the betrayal of his people is even worse.
  • Avior
    Avior 16 May 2020 11: 17 New
    +2
    What other ways did the military age remain in the occupied territory?
    1. Almost half a million people who were called up at the beginning of the war, military commissariats without hesitation sent according to pre-war plans to the territory that was actually already captured by the enemy or captured after receiving the order, but did not reach the picking place. Not civilian or non-military. Someone ran away, someone died, someone was taken prisoner, someone the Germans checked that they hadn’t fought, and they let them go home.
    2. Those captured, whom the Germans released, there was such a moment at the beginning of the war, when they released some, not wanting to support them and believing that the war was about to end.
    This concerned some nationalities; they could release the wounded from hospitals and so on.
    3. Those who have not been called up for health are flat feet, for example.
    4. Those who were not called up because they had armor, but did not have time to evacuate or did not consider it necessary — when the enterprise was taken to the rear, not everyone was evacuated with it.
    There were other situations
  • rocket757
    rocket757 16 May 2020 11: 54 New
    +2
    . In any case, everyone has always had a choice

    There is always a problem of choice, but for most Soviet people this problem was not, they went to defend their homeland.
  • depressant
    depressant 16 May 2020 12: 03 New
    +1
    I read the comments.
    Oh, colleagues! .. Tell me, how many of you have got rid of the Soviet mentality - for a period of almost 30 years? Even those who studied poorly or simply ignored the classics of Marxism-Leninism? Like me, for example. Centuries needed capitalism to hammer into people's heads that there is no other way of life. Like, criticize as much as you like, and even fight for social rights, but there is no alternative. But then the USSR arose ...
    Now remember how much time has passed, even if you count from 1917, before the start of the Second World War. Only 24 years old! Total! Could for this historically insignificant period of time the mentality of the Soviet person be formed all over the entire population of the country? Could not. Given the diversity of the population up to the presence of primitive communities.
    So what did they betray? No, not a political system, not an idea - Homeland. They betrayed their homeland. A man who has entered your native land with arms in his hands, with the intention of taking it from you, is definitely an enemy. And you, allowing him to do this, are definitely a traitor ...
    What have we betrayed? Not knowing how to be "capitalist", not wanting to be, remaining Soviet, we seem to have betrayed our Motherland - an idea. As a form of existence of the Motherland. Because we, with our sufficiently formed Soviet mentality among the overwhelming majority of the population, no matter how traitors, are we kind of deceived? However, ignorance of the consequences, inability to foresee them does not exempt from responsibility for participation in a crime. Good wording, right? But it is also wrong. At gunpoint, a person can be made to do a lot, to think differently than he thought yesterday - the instinct of self-preservation will work. There was no pistol. The feeling of hunger is akin, it is a substitute for a pistol. And it is akin to the conviction that everything is rotten and needs to be changed. And the Motherland - it just takes on a different form, remaining in our property. This was self-deception, equal to betrayal. By betraying the idea, we betrayed and lost our Motherland.
    And for this to happen, for it to happen without military intervention, a lot has been done by few. Social technology is akin to war. From our mentality, gradually and carefully, so that suddenly it does not hurt, they took out the steel core of ideology. For many years. And they took him out. Cooked like a frog. There was an empty shell. Are we victims? What a nasty word! An empty shell does not lead to an active action. You can’t put the communist core into it anymore - that shell has withered and withered away. She is only a ghost of the Soviet mentality. There is a ghost, there is no former homeland.
    And what will happen next?
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 16 May 2020 12: 47 New
      +2
      Quote: depressant
      There is a ghost, there is no former homeland.
      And what will happen next?

      OUR MAN, always went for the Motherland, for the Fatherland, and then for everything else.
      It doesn’t get corroded anyway, ANYONE!
      Everything else is superficial, adhering, at different periods of time.
      Slow down, times are changing, slogans are being copied, and for the Motherland, as always, ahead of everything! soldier
      1. depressant
        depressant 16 May 2020 14: 09 New
        +3
        Colleague rocket, but there are conversations going on ... Like, what to fight for now. Is it really for the deposits that now do not belong to us, but are the property of not only our own, but also the foreign rich, for the safety of their wallets, for their ability to rob the country. After all, it is not a rich man who will go into battle, let alone a foreigner, but a simple Russian poor. The word "homeland" began to contain two meanings, no matter how much I wanted to catch one. Homeland as a territory inherited by ancestors (they have already forgotten about big Russia as their own, except that migrant workers remind them, don't they?) And homeland as a colony. But generations have come for whom the first, true meaning is already blurred. And there are no conditions for the exclusion of the shameful (the homeland is where the family is good, let it be a foreign land). The Internet snaps at a shameful meaning. Often not expressing the majority opinion. And cunning. "I don't need the Turkish coast, I don't need someone else's land ..." Sing this, they won't understand you.
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 16 May 2020 15: 31 New
          +3
          ... The word "homeland" began to contain two meanings, no matter how much I wanted to catch one.

          I am a simple soldier of the Great Country, I went to where the Motherland sent us .... neither the Arab sands, nor the Caribbean shores, nor the jungle, we and naf were not needed, however we walked and defended.
          Homeland said NECESSARY, the soldier answered IS! And there is no double meaning there and never will be.
          And YOUR LAND, this issue is not subject to discussion. Power is changing, the motherland always remains. We take the oath to our people, our land, our ......
          1. ser56
            ser56 16 May 2020 21: 21 New
            +1
            Quote: rocket757
            We take the oath to our people, our land, our ..

            it seems you forgot the text of the oath in the USSR request
            1. rocket757
              rocket757 16 May 2020 21: 47 New
              +1
              . I swear to conscientiously study military affairs, to take care of military and national property in every way, and to the last breath to be devoted to my People, my Soviet Motherland and the Soviet Government
              1. ser56
                ser56 16 May 2020 23: 21 New
                +1
                I, a citizen of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, joining the Armed Forces, take the oath and solemnly swear to be honest, brave, disciplined, watchful soldier, strictly keep military and state secrets, unconditionally fulfill all military regulations and orders of commanders and commanders.

                I swear to conscientiously study military affairs, to take care of military and national property in every way, and to the last breath to be devoted to my People, my Sovietto the motherland and Soviet To the government.

                I am always ready by order Soviet Governments come out to defend my Homeland - the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and, as a warrior of the Armed Forces, I swear to defend it courageously, skillfully, with dignity and honor, not sparing my blood and life itself in order to achieve a complete victory over enemies.

                If I violate this solemn oath of mine, then let me suffer the harsh punishment of Soviet law, universal hatred and contempt workers.

                taught you badly ... bully I draw attention to the highlighted ... soldier
                please find:
                Quote: rocket757
                And YOUR LAND, this issue is not subject to discussion. Power is changing, Motherland always remains

                Are you talking about the Soviet oath? bully you are funny ... soldier



                compare: "" I, (surname, name, patronymic), solemnly swear allegiance to my Fatherland - the Russian Federation. I swear to sacredly observe the Constitution of the Russian Federation, strictly comply with the requirements of military regulations, orders of commanders and chiefs.
                I swear to fulfill my military duty with dignity and courageously defend freedom, independence and the constitutional order of Russia, the people and the Fatherland. "
        2. ser56
          ser56 16 May 2020 21: 23 New
          +1
          Quote: depressant
          After all, not a rich man will go into battle, much less a foreigner, but a simple Russian poor.

          somehow in 1MV in the Republic of Ingushetia even the king’s brother commanded the Wild Division ... request
          1. depressant
            depressant 16 May 2020 23: 46 New
            0
            The king’s brother probably owned the estate and, one must think, not one. This means that he had a piece of his homeland, inherited from his ancestors. He had something to fight for. And yet, the king’s brother, and the king himself — they lost the battle for their inheritance. Why so?
            Wandering in the wilds of the Internet, I came across a series of publications that cite a series of photographs of various authors of that time. These are photographs of peasants from different regions of Russia. The authors simply showed face types. Well what to say? Only one thing: God, what a terrible misery! Rickety little huts rickety ... Clothing is a flaw ... Bare feet ... The hungry faces of children and adults who are always undernourished ...
            Commentators are perplexed: why were the majority of Russian peasant women so ugly? At 30 years old is already an old woman! Yes, in fact, at 20 - already ... Yes, because from early childhood they were tortured with overwork, the lack of education that adorns the face due to intelligence, and almost annual births. And - the hopelessness of existence.
            The king was the largest landowner. Russia sold a huge amount of grain abroad, scraping it from peasant barns. From here are the ugly faces of the peasant women. Hence the Tsar’s loss in the battle for Russia. And I am very afraid that once the faces of modern Russian women can also become ugly. There are more than enough prerequisites in the economy. The parallel begs. Maybe that's why we got masks on?
            1. ser56
              ser56 17 May 2020 00: 02 New
              +1
              Quote: depressant
              He had something to fight for.

              Is it really bad? or are you prettier than fish without property?
              Quote: depressant
              they lost the battle for their inheritance. Why so?

              trite - did not know how to lie ... request
              Quote: depressant
              Clothing is a flaw ... Bare feet ... The hungry faces of children and adults who are always undernourished ..

              stupidity, I talked with my grandfather in childhood - peasants lived normally in Siberia ...
              Quote: depressant
              Maybe that's why we got masks on?

              I think, moreover, it’s motivated that you have a mask in your head ... request
              1. vladcub
                vladcub 17 May 2020 15: 05 New
                +1
                Ser56, you are absolutely right: in Siberia the peasants lived richly. This is a well-established stereotype that until 1917 all the peasants were in poverty. In reality, the standard of living in the provinces was different
                1. ser56
                  ser56 17 May 2020 15: 18 New
                  0
                  Quote: vladcub
                  : in Siberia, peasants lived richly.

                  not everything is clear, but if not lazy, then at least prosperous ... request and agricultural machinery was also actively used - reapers, sheaves, etc., up to threshers with locomobiles ... hi
                  1. vladcub
                    vladcub 17 May 2020 16: 01 New
                    +1
                    It was so
            2. ser56
              ser56 17 May 2020 00: 03 New
              0
              "depressant (lyudmila yakovlevna kuznetsova)"
              Hmm, this is a serious psychology ... a woman takes a male nickname ... hi
              1. depressant
                depressant 17 May 2020 00: 34 New
                0
                Agree! wassat I was always bothered by male names like Ilya and Nikita))
                Good night, colleague! Good dreams to you! Maybe we'll talk tomorrow love
                1. ser56
                  ser56 17 May 2020 15: 16 New
                  0
                  Quote: depressant
                  colleague!

                  deeply doubt request
                  Quote: depressant
                  I was always bothered by male names like Ilya and Nikita

                  funny ... laughing
  • fraders
    fraders 16 May 2020 12: 12 New
    +1
    I had a neighbor, it was then in childhood, I thought that they called me a policeman in the face and bad character, but then, having matured, they told me that when the Germans occupied Crimea, he was 18 years old, he didn’t get into the Red Army, and the Nazis they brought to his nose: either-or, heavi became, then ours came and as an accomplice, not involved in atrocities in atrocities, he sat down
  • Aviator_
    Aviator_ 16 May 2020 14: 47 New
    +1
    Until 1939, they were called up for active military service from the age of 21.

    The author is mistaken, this was until 1936, from 1936 to 1939 the call was from 19, and from 1940 - from 18 years old (https://history.ric.mil.ru/Stati/item/119210/)
    1. Sugar Honeyovich
      Sugar Honeyovich 16 May 2020 17: 53 New
      0
      Not certainly in that way. Since 1939, those with a complete secondary education have been called up from the age of 18 with a "special" appeal. Including 17-year-olds, who turned 18 at the end of 1939. This was the case, for example, with Yuri Nikulin.
  • Looking for
    Looking for 16 May 2020 15: 14 New
    -2
    Quote: Doccor18
    Betrayal is betrayal.

    and 150 million did not commit treason in 1991?
  • sergo1914
    sergo1914 16 May 2020 15: 27 New
    0
    . Criminals also belonged to this disgusting category, which, as a matter of fact, no one took to the front, but the occupiers willingly accepted the ranks of the "assistants". We will leave delusional tales about the lessons “heroically struggling with the Nazis” on the conscience of some Russian filmmakers, either consciously lying, or simply not having an idea of ​​the real events of those years.


    Here you go too far. A volunteer lesson was enough. Grandfather told me that no one had cut them better with German knives. They went for languages. Half of the company - urki. Volunteers. Once the general came to the unit. So they took away his grandfather as a present from his chrome boots. The guards did not notice anything. The general swore very highly artistic. They were awarded orders and medals. After the war, almost everyone thundered back.
    1. DDT
      DDT 17 May 2020 20: 34 New
      0
      Yes, if you take people like my uncle, who drunkenly knocked down a man and thundered instead of a prison in a penal battalion, then yes! There were a lot of Urkagans there, as many as 2 people for the whole shtrarot ... But repeat offenders! The rest, however, for some reason were completely repressed soldiers and commanders of the Red Army, plus political ones. I, too, like the author, laughed for a long time about "Penal Battalion" although I love Serebryannikov. Especially the end of the film smiled, - "and with the title I am a Thief" ... Yes, such a thief would have been torn apart with the words. Or do you think the thieves have a party meeting with the appearance?
      1. sergo1914
        sergo1914 17 May 2020 22: 38 New
        0
        Quote: DDT
        Yes, if you take people like my uncle, who drunkenly knocked down a man and thundered instead of a prison in a penal battalion, then yes! There were a lot of Urkagans there, as many as 2 people for the whole shtrarot ... But repeat offenders! The rest, however, for some reason were completely repressed soldiers and commanders of the Red Army, plus political ones. I, too, like the author, laughed for a long time about "Penal Battalion" although I love Serebryannikov. Especially the end of the film smiled, - "and with the title I am a Thief" ... Yes, such a thief would have been torn apart with the words. Or do you think the thieves have a party meeting with the appearance?


        And you can learn more about age. Your and your uncle? In what year did he get into the penal battalion and at what age?
        1. DDT
          DDT 18 May 2020 12: 12 New
          -1
          At the end of 41 he was 23 years old. I did not have time to go to jail, the war had already begun. What are you interested in? If you are researching this topic, write in a personal. I will share. And if, "purely out of interest", then you are not supposed to know laughing hi
  • Fat
    Fat 16 May 2020 18: 20 New
    0
    I do not want to accept, does not mean that it was not. The issue with the police in the occupation is more than complicated!
    This is only a seed! What?!
    Maniacs, robbers and killers transferred with Hitler’s troops at once?
    And who, by ..... "Should have figured out ???
    SSman, yes this, then the institution. NOW, how important
  • Andrey Bragin
    Andrey Bragin 16 May 2020 20: 46 New
    +1
    That's interesting: those who went to the police are traitors. Of course traitors. Nobody argues. And those who worked for the Reich? Sown and harvested. Worked in repair shops. And there were most of these in the occupied regions. They were paid by the occupying Reichsmarks. They bought bread. For feeding the Reich and repairing tanks. As?
    1. vladcub
      vladcub 17 May 2020 13: 52 New
      0
      They prefer not to remember this now.
  • ser56
    ser56 16 May 2020 21: 20 New
    +1
    "It is only liberal historians who are trying to prove that every single enemy of Soviet power was invented by Stalin and Beria. In fact, those who in 1941 did not consider the state of workers and peasants or the Red Army that defended it in the country as their own," alas, enough. "
    Strange position of the author! Let us think about whether the USSR and the IVS are personally guilty of people becoming enemies of the SV? What did SV give to all dispossessed, exiled and robbed? Who made internal enemies in peacetime? And they were not torn precisely in the Red Army - an ideological army, and not a state? And is it because, when it was cauterized, the IVS started singing on July 3 - Brothers and sisters? And the Red Army migrated from commissars to officers?
    The campaign did not understand the author what he said and highlighted the carefully concealed topic by his ideological associates bully
  • mmaxx
    mmaxx 17 May 2020 10: 48 New
    0
    Ahhh! And now, even in Soviet times, there were enough and enough people who were ready to serve anyone for beer. They are not even for sale. In all situations they just want to live better than others and preferably at the expense of others. Our country is big and different.
  • vladcub
    vladcub 17 May 2020 13: 50 New
    0
    Quote: Sardanapalus
    Minus I slapped. They did not consider the liverworm as a sausage. And the adults took me to Moscow with them. They will show the Kremlin-vdnh-zoo .. And then the queue-queue-queue to buy "human" sausage blat, you spend the whole night in the station chair, and then queue again. But then on Saturdays and Sundays, the month fried-boiled sausage with mashed potatoes. I still prefer blood and now, and from "sovdepovskaya" sausage heartburn of memories.

    Oh ho, how many people have survived. The most interesting thing in human psychology is that we try to forget the bad. The older we get, the nicer the past.
  • Petrik66
    Petrik66 17 May 2020 16: 46 New
    0
    Along the way, the discussion of the topic of traitors in the Second World War was reduced to the festival of old n ...... in, excuse me, Gentlemen with memories of the sausage that they ate during the years of their Komsomol youth.
  • Suraikin.Aleksandr
    Suraikin.Aleksandr 17 May 2020 20: 34 New
    -1
    And after reading the post, I remembered the story of the Belarusian front-line writer Vasily Vladimirovich Bykov "Sotnikov", written by him based on a meeting with a former brother-soldier who ended up in the service of the Germans.
    In August 1944, passing by a Romanian village, Lieutenant Vasil Bykov saw in a group of German prisoners a man with whom he had once served in the same regiment. During a conversation with the prisoner, it was possible to find out that after being wounded, he ended up in a concentration camp, there - temporarily, as it seemed to him - agreed to cooperate with the Vlasovites and lived all these years in anticipation of an opportunity, hoping to escape.
    The case never presented itself, and the former fellow soldier "got stuck in apostasy day after day." This meeting made the future writer wonder what man is capable of "facing the crushing force of inhuman circumstances"

    In my opinion, you are too fond of concretizing the motives of people who went to the policemen or hevi, I think that just these two categories of collaborators were poorly aware of what they were doing and didn’t plan to participate in punitive operations. As I understand it, the Germans did not try to use such a contingent in anti-partisan and punitive operations. Who really only wanted to survive, and did not try to curry favor with the Germans, really could spend the whole war in economic or lower ranks. As far as I remember, these people were treated rather condescendingly.
    But the fighters of various Shutsmanshafts just created for participation in anti-partisan operations, these people, as a rule, are really traitors who did not deserve leniency.
  • Roman 4912
    Roman 4912 17 May 2020 22: 48 New
    0
    That's about these "hivis" or whatever - I first read about the Battle of Stalingrad on Wiki. Second time now. I am interested in the history of the Second World War. I read a lot. Thoughtfully. Where is it from?
  • Kirill Petrov_2
    Kirill Petrov_2 18 May 2020 04: 34 New
    +1
    XIVI - served in the Wehrmacht, and HIPO, like 4 other types of police belonged to the SS (the so-called general SS), not to be confused with the Waffen SS. The formation of the police took 3 days — as a rule, there was no end to volunteers — the policemen did not work and were not subject to theft to work in Germany. It is no secret that the Germans literally raised many police chiefs, as well as priests, and brought them in a wagon train.
  • slasha
    slasha 18 May 2020 19: 16 New
    0
    Thank. Good article. Necessary.
  • tank64rus
    tank64rus 19 May 2020 11: 10 New
    0
    Betrayal is treason, no matter how liberals and the like of a different type of wrestlers with a hated regime would like. It is no secret that the Germans used them to do the dirty work.