Military Review

In Bashkiria, a bust of Kolchak

366

A monument to one of the leaders of the White Movement, Alexander Kolchak, was erected near one of the shopping centers in Sterlitamak, located in Bashkiria. Its discovery was timed to coincide with the 100th anniversary of the shooting of the Admiral by the Bolsheviks on May 18, 1920.


This is reported by the newspaper. "AIF".

The monument to Kolchak is a copper bust. It was created by sculptor Alexey Dikunov from Voronezh at the expense of local businessman Tagir Ibragimov. The construction of the building, on the territory of which the monument to the admiral was erected, was also financed by him. As long as there is time before the grand opening of the monument, there is an improvement of the territory.

According to Tagir Ibragimov, Kolchak deserves to be immortalized. He believes that if it were not for the Civil War, he would be "honored no less than Konstantin Tsiolkovsky or Dmitry Mendeleev." After all, Kolchak was an outstanding scientist and polar explorer. Maps of the Arctic, compiled by the future leader of the White movement, are used in our time. He also made a great contribution to the defense of Port Arthur during the Russo-Japanese War. And the country with which Kolchak later fought, according to Tagir Ibragimov, no longer exists.

Meanwhile, in Russia, a discussion continues regarding historical figures of Kolchak. For some, he is a hero of the Fatherland, for others - a traitor and murderer.
Photos used:
https://commons.wikmedia.org/Dmitrii Fedotoff-White
366 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 15 May 2020 13: 45 New
    39
    Well, now, not to Krasnov, so Kolchak ...
    1. svp67
      svp67 15 May 2020 13: 49 New
      -12
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      Well, now, not to Krasnov, so Kolchak ...

      Kolchak is still not Krasnov, he did not go to the service. Now, the image that was created by the "red" propaganda and "polished" during the USSR plays a great part against him ...
      1. Barmaleyka
        Barmaleyka 15 May 2020 13: 53 New
        25
        Quote: svp67
        Now in many ways the image that was created plays against him

        but was not, did not rage ...?
        1. svp67
          svp67 15 May 2020 13: 59 New
          +8
          Quote: Barmaleyka
          but was not, did not rage ...?

          Excuse me, were the "reds" in this respect "goodies"?
          1. Barmaleyka
            Barmaleyka 15 May 2020 14: 00 New
            0
            Excuse me, but YOU are for the reds or the zkh of whites ?!
            1. svp67
              svp67 15 May 2020 14: 23 New
              19
              Quote: Barmaleyka
              Excuse me, but YOU are for the reds or the zkh of whites ?!

              I’m for the Russians, I’m for stopping this division and swarms, and for understanding that we now have a real “enemy at the gates,” who dreams, and most importantly does not hide his dreams, to “break” our Fatherland into "small shmatochki" - the "state" and not allow them to unite anymore. And such a swara plays into his hands
              1. Graz
                Graz 15 May 2020 14: 29 New
                17
                theoretically, let the monument stand, then there should be an inscription about its main deeds and not only good ones, but also showing its dark side
                1. svp67
                  svp67 15 May 2020 14: 45 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Graz
                  then there should be an inscription about his main deeds and not only good ones, but also showing his dark side

                  Then you will have to broadcast such tablets on all the monuments of red heroes ... can you imagine what will begin. Although this should be done. People should know what the true story of the Civil War is, and not "sleek" on one side or another.
                  1. Cryvedco
                    Cryvedco 15 May 2020 17: 48 New
                    +3
                    Well, for this, the monuments to the red heroes will have to be at least put up. And yet, yes, I can imagine what will begin.
                    1. Oleg Zorin
                      Oleg Zorin 15 May 2020 18: 18 New
                      -1
                      In every city are
                    2. Cyril G ...
                      Cyril G ... 15 May 2020 18: 28 New
                      -4
                      It’s like a mini would be right ............
                    3. Tatyana
                      Tatyana 15 May 2020 18: 28 New
                      47
                      The truth about Kolchak without CINEMA myths and sugary romance.

                      1. After the overthrow of the Tsar, to whom Kolchak swore allegiance, he was the first to swear allegiance to the interim government, thereby violating his oaths of allegiance and amending the honor of an officer. (The last two decades have been trying in every possible way to erase this information from history, or even turn it upside down, as if Kolchak was the last to go over to the side of the rebels, which, however, does not cancel his betrayal).
                      2. The February revolution Kolchak met while in the United States, and immediately put forward his candidacy for the constituent assembly (the body declared to be created by the Bolsheviks), but did not manage to register.
                      3. After was accepted at a PERSONAL request, into the ENGLISH service, contrary to the oath given to the interim government. However, on his way to England he was met by emissaries of the Ufa (Siberian) Directory, one of the anti-Bolshevik governments created during the Civil War.
                      4.November 5, 1918 Admiral Kolchak was appointed Minister of War and Navy, the so-called Ufa Directory. And already November 18, 1918 (after 2 weeks) Kolchak made a coup, as a result of which the Directory was abolished, and he he declared himself the Supreme Ruler of Russia.
                      5. The remains of the constituent assembly dispersed by Lenin (where the former admiral once wanted to enter) by order of Kolchak they were shot.
                      6. In the territory which the troops controlled Kolchak, practiced the methods of fierce terror against political opponents and civilians who disagree to cooperate with the white movement.
                      7. The repressive methods of Kolchak provoked a wave of uprisings in the rear of the White Army, often leading these speeches not the Bolsheviks stood, but the Socialist Revolutionaries and Mensheviks.
                      8. January 4, 1920 Kolchak signed his last decree - on the transfer of supreme power to General Denikin.
                      9. He was not killed by the Bolsheviks, but a devotee of the Entente, was given to the white-haters, who in turn gave it to the Irkutsk political center (Socialist Revolutionaries), and was replaced by a revolutionary who shot Kolchak even before the Bolsheviks approached the city.

                      10. Profukal the golden treasury of RI The Entente, the whites and the Japanese.
                      1. Mihail2019
                        Mihail2019 15 May 2020 20: 11 New
                        +6
                        Tatyana, I put you the deserved "+"!
                        "Explorer of the Arctic" - while the young lieutenant-cap-time was .. Swimming qualification is necessary for a career to develop. And as I got to the authorities, all nature at once got out.
                      2. tihonmarine
                        tihonmarine 15 May 2020 20: 30 New
                        -4
                        Quote: Tatiana
                        Trapped the gold treasury of the RI Entente, the whites and the Japanese.

                        Generally and shabes.
                      3. Private-K
                        Private-K 16 May 2020 07: 23 New
                        -1
                        Do you know what the term shabes means, or rather, shabes-goy?
                        Oh, to someone, and to Kolchak, he is definitely not suitable.
                    4. brr1
                      brr1 16 May 2020 11: 41 New
                      -4
                      Quote: Tatiana
                      The truth about Kolchak without CINEMA myths and sugary romance.

                      1. After the overthrow of the Tsar, to whom Kolchak swore allegiance, he was the first to swear allegiance to the interim government, thereby violating his oaths of allegiance and amending the honor of an officer. (The last two decades have been trying in every possible way to erase this information from history, or even turn it upside down, as if Kolchak was the last to go over to the side of the rebels, which, however, does not cancel his betrayal).
                      2. The February revolution Kolchak met while in the United States, and immediately put forward his candidacy for the constituent assembly (the body declared to be created by the Bolsheviks), but did not manage to register.
                      3. After was accepted at a PERSONAL request, into the ENGLISH service, contrary to the oath given to the interim government. However, on his way to England he was met by emissaries of the Ufa (Siberian) Directory, one of the anti-Bolshevik governments created during the Civil War.
                      4.November 5, 1918 Admiral Kolchak was appointed Minister of War and Navy, the so-called Ufa Directory. And already November 18, 1918 (after 2 weeks) Kolchak made a coup, as a result of which the Directory was abolished, and he he declared himself the Supreme Ruler of Russia.
                      5. The remains of the constituent assembly dispersed by Lenin (where the former admiral once wanted to enter) by order of Kolchak they were shot.
                      6. In the territory which the troops controlled Kolchak, practiced the methods of fierce terror against political opponents and civilians who disagree to cooperate with the white movement.
                      7. The repressive methods of Kolchak provoked a wave of uprisings in the rear of the White Army, often leading these speeches not the Bolsheviks stood, but the Socialist Revolutionaries and Mensheviks.
                      8. January 4, 1920 Kolchak signed his last decree - on the transfer of supreme power to General Denikin.
                      9. He was not killed by the Bolsheviks, but a devotee of the Entente, was given to the white-haters, who in turn gave it to the Irkutsk political center (Socialist Revolutionaries), and was replaced by a revolutionary who shot Kolchak even before the Bolsheviks approached the city.

                      10. Profukal the golden treasury of RI The Entente, the whites and the Japanese.


                      Here it is. To shoot and drown him is not enough. Ahh, did you? Well, there is a way for him, he had to cut off his head and defecate directly in the throat.
                  2. tihonmarine
                    tihonmarine 15 May 2020 20: 29 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Creedco
                    Well, for this, the monuments to the red heroes will have to be at least put up. And yet, yes, I can imagine what will begin.

                    You have yes, but we have everything with a bang !!!
                2. Oleg Zorin
                  Oleg Zorin 15 May 2020 18: 17 New
                  -3
                  Yes and that would be right
                3. orionvitt
                  orionvitt 15 May 2020 19: 20 New
                  14
                  Quote: svp67
                  People need to know what the true story of the Civil War is.

                  And what is the true story of the civil war, in your opinion? That some fought for the happiness of the working people (without sarcasm), others for the tsar, still others for their lost privileges, and still others fought for nothing. The article has keywords
                  if not for the Civil War, he would be "honored no less than Konstantin Tsiolkovsky or Dmitry Mendeleev"
                  If yes, if only. He would remain an explorer of the Arctic and a naval officer, so no, you had to declare yourself the "supreme ruler of Siberia", with all the ensuing consequences. So the civil war put everything in its place, and its actions during the war, no one forgot.
                  1. tihonmarine
                    tihonmarine 16 May 2020 10: 20 New
                    +5
                    Quote: orionvitt
                    He would remain an explorer of the Arctic and a naval officer, so no, you had to declare yourself the "supreme ruler of Siberia"

                    Yes, here they turned down about Tsiolkovsky and Mendeleev, take higher Einstein. As liberals like high words. But an ordinary Arctic explorer, such as Kolchak, was hundreds, and he was not a great discoverer, just like the hero of the Japanese war, where he served for six months as a simple commander of a destroyer.
                4. The comment was deleted.
                5. Poor
                  Poor 15 May 2020 19: 43 New
                  +7
                  let’s put a monument to my fellow countryman “beat the whites until they turn red, and the whites until they turn white”
                  1. notingem
                    notingem 16 May 2020 09: 28 New
                    -4
                    Makhno is absolutely worthy of the monument, especially as an ardent adherent of the ideas of anarchism and a very bright figure of the Civil War
                    1. Poor
                      Poor 18 May 2020 19: 22 New
                      +1
                      Thank you for your understanding, my wife is a historian, and very often we discuss with her facts and interpretations of historical events. What I can’t disagree with is that the winners write History. Lord capitalists, for fear, have long fought the ghost of communism that roamed the planet laughing , as a result, bought a "couple" of corrupt Communists and won
              2. tihonmarine
                tihonmarine 15 May 2020 16: 08 New
                18
                Quote: Graz
                theoretically, let the monument stand, then there should be an inscription about its main deeds and not only good ones, but also showing its dark side

                Of course you're right, you need to write "and black and white." But in for interest, I climbed the "web", found 12 books about Kolchak, and all of them, even if you write him down as a saint. But how he did not find such atrocities at the DCK, and with whom he sold Russia, there wasn’t either. Here about Marshal Rokossovsky I found only four books, and even then they were written during the USSR, but about Kolchak everything was written in the era of democrats and liberals. And what we give to our children and grandchildren. Truly the world turned upside down; all the klystrons flew out of their heads.
                1. missuris
                  missuris 15 May 2020 23: 17 New
                  -6
                  Marshal Rokossovsky didn’t see beyond his nose either, the commission under his chairmanship hacked the concept of the Unified State Network of Computer Centers in the USSR, which could optimize the economy in the USSR and fight corruption and bureaucracy in the Communist Party.
                  1. lelik613
                    lelik613 17 May 2020 06: 23 New
                    -2
                    At that time, this concept was stupidity of a homeric scale comparable to a water supply system from Brest to Vladivostok from a single pipe. The 1960 Internet and the 2020 Internet are two big differences. We had neither the resources to maintain and constantly update the daily outdated iron nor the software for complex management and data processing. In fact, an adventure that overlaps a virgin adventure, a turn of the northern rivers and atomic explosions for the purpose of the national economy.
            2. Barmaleyka
              Barmaleyka 15 May 2020 14: 52 New
              16
              Quote: svp67
              to stop this division and swara

              are you real ?!
              just explain to me how I can stand on one side, for example with a gozman?
              But he will say the same thing for the Russians
              1. svp67
                svp67 15 May 2020 15: 09 New
                10
                Quote: Barmaleyka
                just explain to me how I can stand on one side, for example with a gozman?

                Excuse me, but do you think that Gozman is for Kolchak? No, I’ll say otherwise, would Kolchak himself be for Gozman? No, he didn’t allow him like him to take part in a cannon shot, and at best he flogged "for defeatist propaganda"
                1. seregatara1969
                  seregatara1969 15 May 2020 17: 25 New
                  -10
                  An officer with a difficult after a revolutionary fate. The figure is not unique. And did not commit atrocities. Here the story must be reevaluated and everything weighed again.
                  1. RUSS
                    RUSS 15 May 2020 17: 27 New
                    +5
                    Quote: seregatara1969
                    An officer with a difficult after a revolutionary fate. The figure is not unique. And did not commit atrocities. Here the story must be reevaluated and everything weighed again.


                    The author of the copper bust is Voronezh sculptor Alexey Dikunov. The project was financed by businessman Tagir Ibragimov. The facility is located on the territory of a building built by a businessman. Now the area around the bust is being improved, the grand opening is scheduled for May 18.

                    “I had the idea for a long time,” said Tagir Ibragimov. - In our city there are many streets named after ambiguous personalities who do not deserve this. There is a street Khalturina. He wanted to blow up the tsar, but could not do this, but his bomb killed soldiers and heroes of the Russian-Turkish war of 1877-1878. Kolchak is a legendary figure in the history of the Russian state, scientist, polar explorer, oceanographer, Port Arthur defense hero. Still use his maps of the Arctic. Today there is no state against which he fought. If not for the Civil War, everyone would have honored him as Dmitry Mendeleev or Konstantin Tsiolkovsky. ”
                    1. fif21
                      fif21 16 May 2020 16: 03 New
                      +1
                      Quote: RUSS
                      The author of the copper bust

                      Copper !? It's good . Need to tell the "metalworkers" wassat
                      “I had the idea for a long time,” said Tagir Ibragimov
                      Oh and grandfather would have kicked you for an idea lol Or from the bays?
                    2. RUSS
                      RUSS 16 May 2020 16: 50 New
                      +1
                      Quote: fif21
                      Quote: RUSS
                      The author of the copper bust

                      Copper !? It's good . Need to tell the "metalworkers" wassat
                      “I had the idea for a long time,” said Tagir Ibragimov
                      Oh and grandfather would have kicked you for an idea lol Or from the bays?

                      Bashkirs have no bays
                2. tihonmarine
                  tihonmarine 16 May 2020 10: 04 New
                  +6
                  Quote: seregatara1969
                  And did not commit atrocities.

                  You ask my grandfathers and great-grandfathers who lived beyond Irkutsk. Just an angel with a scythe in his hands.
              2. tihonmarine
                tihonmarine 16 May 2020 10: 02 New
                +2
                Quote: svp67
                Excuse me, but do you think that Gozman is for Kolchak?

                Kolchak and Gozman ??? Who is the nobleman Kolchak, and who is Gozman?
            3. New
              New Year day 15 May 2020 15: 37 New
              15
              Quote: Barmaleyka
              just explain to me how I can stand on one side, for example

              with Ivanov or Medinsky, who opened the Mannerheim board?
          2. avg
            avg 15 May 2020 15: 15 New
            13
            I am for the Russians, I am for stopping this division and swara, and understand that we now have a real "enemy at the gates"

            I'm with you. It is high time for our historians (and not only) to create a commission, to rethink that difficult time and to develop certain recommendations on the basis of which to adopt appropriate laws, write textbooks, and use them in toponymy. Famous saying: “The white movement was started almost by the saints, and almost the robbers finished it. This statement is uprooted by cruel mental pain, but it is thrown on the altar of the goddess of truth ”(V. Shulgin.) But is it only applicable to white. (I say this with pain, because all my life I was for the Reds)
            As for Krasnov and his ilk, he and the whites would have been hanged.
            1. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... 15 May 2020 18: 30 New
              +3
              Krasnov, unlike Denikin, began to serve the III Reich ....
            2. fider
              fider 17 May 2020 07: 29 New
              0
              avg
              "It is high time for our historians (and not only) to create a commission ..."

              Each subsequent historian refutes the previous one. There is no faith in the historians of Russia. Yes, and the rest too.
          3. IS-80_RVGK2
            IS-80_RVGK2 15 May 2020 16: 25 New
            10
            Quote: svp67
            I’m for the Russians, I’m for stopping this division and swarms, and for understanding that we now have a real “enemy at the gates,” who dreams, and most importantly does not hide his dreams, to “break” our Fatherland into "small shmatochki" - the "state" and not allow them to unite anymore. And such a swara plays into his hands

            Yeah. It is necessary to rally around Vekselmovich’s yacht. Miner and oligarch in the same ranks. And the one that is internal is not important? Or when a domestic oligarch robs you is another matter entirely? By the way, it’s very interesting if the patriots of Russia hung the plate with your logic Mannerheim. And those who demanded her to remove the agents of the State Department and the liberal grant-eaters. Rocking a yacht.
          4. evgeniy.plotnikov.2019mail.ru
            evgeniy.plotnikov.2019mail.ru 15 May 2020 18: 57 New
            10
            But Kolchak was not for the Russians, dear svp67. What is he ,, Russian ,,? It was possible. ,, Was, yes swam away.. He since 1915 in sweat, plowed, on British intelligence. Okay, I agree - it’s hard to carefully verify his involvement in the explosion of Empress Maria, though ... But you look at how he behaves between February and October. He goes to Japan to rest, from the works of the righteous. Evil soldiers with weapons flee from the front - fed up with feeding lice for three years in a dumb IMPERIALIST slaughter, evil officers who are tired of free soldiers go to the Don ... And this, handsome one, is resting in the Land of the Rising Sun! And how do you explain for yourself the British battalion, which was very well guarded in Omsk? And how do you explain the public executions of the Reds, organized as theatrical performances? Where is this drug addict with her e..friend and interventions, imposingly located in the “box”, I watched the child from about. Photographs, documents, and artifacts, no agitation. ,,Go and see!,,
            Why such a Frivolous distrust of their ancestors? They made their choice! They have been TIRED for hundreds of years with all these cunning, kolchaks,,,, krasnovy,,, denikins,,,, нгngerny, ... But unless, here and now, the rich have not bothered you for all 30 years old? You still don’t know, The Main Bourgeois Secret,?
            All these ,, Wrangels ,,,, Semenov ,,,, White whales ,,,, White Cossacks ,,, ,, Belofins ,,, ,, ordinary ,, foreign interventionists, etc. r v a l and country to pieces. And the red ones - GATHERED. In my opinion, Savinkov emphasized this in his memoirs. Order, stability, CONFIDENCE were shown by the red ones, not the ones rushing about, like the well-known object in the ice hole, white
          5. The comment was deleted.
          6. stasimar
            stasimar 16 May 2020 08: 22 New
            +2
            What other enemy is at the gate !? Until you realize that you have let goats in the garden, you will walk in muzzles, and soon they will also give out a collar with a leash.
          7. rich
            rich 16 May 2020 10: 51 New
            +3
            The monument to Kolchak is a copper bust. It was created by sculptor Alexey Dikunov from Voronezh

            It was easier to give a photo so that readers had an idea of ​​what was going on
          8. fif21
            fif21 16 May 2020 15: 55 New
            0
            Quote: svp67
            that we now have a real "enemy at the gates"

            laughing Wake up uncle, the enemy is not at the gate, he is on our neck and his name is capitalism. hi
          9. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 20 May 2020 10: 55 New
            0
            It’s not possible, “Whites” crave revenge, and this leads to a new spiral. And look at how the "new nobles" behave - our bureaucrats ....
        2. T.Henks
          T.Henks 15 May 2020 16: 05 New
          +3
          I'm for the second international (cinematic SAY)
        3. Piramidon
          Piramidon 15 May 2020 16: 09 New
          +3
          Quote: Barmaleyka
          Excuse me, but YOU are for the reds or the zkh of whites ?!

          Only two options?
          1. Yves762
            Yves762 15 May 2020 23: 15 New
            0
            Quote: Piramidon
            Only two options?

            The rest are "minorities" ... laughing
        4. Sklendarka
          Sklendarka 15 May 2020 16: 35 New
          -1
          Where is the monument to RasPutin ??? wassat
          1. rich
            rich 16 May 2020 10: 57 New
            +4
            Where is the monument to RasPutin ???

            On the side avenue of the Pharmaceutical Garden in Tyumen there is a sculpture of a tall bearded man in a Siberian buttoned to all buttons. With his left hand he rests on a Viennese chair. So, according to the sculptor Vladimir Zolotukhin, Grigory Rasputin, a native of the village of Pokrovsky near the city, looked like. The figure is made of fiberglass and painted bronze.

            Address: Tyumen, st. Daudelnaya, 7. GPS coordinates: 57.155706, 65.553059.
            How to get there: by buses No. 13, 39, 120 to the stop. "Regional Infectious Diseases Hospital".
        5. Oleg Zorin
          Oleg Zorin 15 May 2020 18: 16 New
          +3
          What are you, dear !? Which are red and white, one "Red and White" around
        6. Kuzmitsky
          15 May 2020 20: 00 New
          0
          As the classics said: "And tell me, dear man, are you for the Communists, al for the Bolsheviks?"
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 15 May 2020 20: 47 New
            +3
            Quote: Kuzmitsky
            "And tell me, dear man, are you for the Communists, al for the Bolsheviks?"

            Are you for the monarchists, al for the whites? belay
      2. Ros 56
        Ros 56 15 May 2020 14: 10 New
        18
        The Reds fought for the people, and the Whites for some for the Tsar, and some for the capitalists and during the war there are no white and fluffy ones.
        1. Kasym
          Kasym 15 May 2020 14: 31 New
          25
          Many "whites" conspired with "foreigners." hi
          1. svp67
            svp67 15 May 2020 14: 32 New
            -2
            Quote: Kasym
            Many "whites" conspired with "foreigners."

            Sorry, but the “red” “huge bunch” of foreigners brought to our territory to fight for them ...
            1. Kasym
              Kasym 15 May 2020 14: 35 New
              +6
              Sergey, I do not deny it. But the fact is that the further development of the Union went without the dictation of foreigners. hi
              1. svp67
                svp67 15 May 2020 14: 43 New
                -2
                Quote: Kasym
                But the fact is that the further development of the Union went without the dictation of foreigners.

                We are no longer given to know how it would be the victory of the "white". In any case, Kolchak was for one and indivisible ...
                1. Lannan Shi
                  Lannan Shi 15 May 2020 15: 58 New
                  20
                  Quote: svp67
                  We are no longer given to know how it would be a victory "white"

                  Well why. The external debt of Russia at the beginning of October 1917 was 16 billion gold rubles. Roughly - 16.000 tons of gold. Plus internal. And together at 60 billion. We are talking about the inevitability of the collapse of the United States, and Russia's debts were, considering the budgets, almost 3 times higher than that of the states.
                  Plus, the inevitable increase in external borrowing in the event of a victory for whites. The peasantry was categorically against them, having voted three-line for the Reds. And the village would have to be drowned in blood. Completely destroying the dissent.
                  Free funds would be many times less than in real history, with the victory of the Reds. We recall the 90s, and now we look around. The collapse of the state’s finances is by no means a reason to cancel baths from the widow of a clique and deprive the baleronium of diamonds. The Reds were nevertheless more modest in their Wishlist and Wishlist. A hundred times more modest. And there is the great depression, in which cap Russia would have smiled with a joyful screech, like the whole cap world.
                  To pay off debts and "helpers" would be land and concessions for minerals and forests. For there is nothing more stupid. But it wouldn’t work out in any way. It was a little foolish to throw troops at Soviet Russia, which was very left at that time in Europe. But on the capitalist ... Stolen from John, Fields, and other Paolo their legal money .... They would cut the country not in the Baltic states different from Finland, but in full. Within the borders of present-day Russia, it is not a fact that they would hold on. For sure, in the Far East. The Japanese noble kus would have snatched. Well, if only for Baikal. Although ... Here, in Central Asia, the border could have passed a little further south, also not a fact, but modern Kazakhstan could be kept. For the simple reason that nobody needed him for free then. But in the Caucasus they would shred completely. God forbid Stavropol would be borderline, not foreign.
                  By 38-40, they would hardly have climbed out of the crisis. And that is not a fact. Industry would at best return to the 1917 level. For with the outflow of 16 billion gold, or the separation of such pieces of land, there would be no stupid point to grow.
                  Well, then .... And further from the events in Europe. For, by 1930, Russia would have been transformed from political actors into an object without options. Well, the bread would have crunched to the heart. And for what there was a kolchak .... For a single and indivisible, for the Martian empire or for the legalization of the LGBT community ... To its sponsors, it was so violet ... Whoever has dinner kolchak, he and that. Axiom.
                2. fighter angel
                  fighter angel 15 May 2020 16: 32 New
                  11
                  svp 67
                  "... In any case, Kolchak was for one and indivisible ..."

                  Yeah, yes. It was so hot that he became an English agent-representative, which, by the way, was very proud, and even left memories on this occasion!
                  And he himself, with the support of the British gentlemen, was appointed "dictator-governor of the Siberian Republic" !!! Feel like crying for the "one-indivisible"? So glad that he created "his" republic, and proclaimed himself its ruler, on equal footing with the British, and with their full support and funding!
                  No fairy tales, the whole white movement sold out and pursued its own interests.
                  What is the "one-indivisible"?
                  They did not care deeply about the country from a high note!
                3. Doliva63
                  Doliva63 15 May 2020 19: 34 New
                  -1
                  Quote: svp67
                  Quote: Kasym
                  But the fact is that the further development of the Union went without the dictation of foreigners.

                  We are no longer given to know how it would be the victory of the "white". In any case, Kolchak was for one and indivisible ...

                  Did Kolchak tell you this? laughing God, how many nonsense they write in VO!
                4. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 15 May 2020 20: 53 New
                  +4
                  Quote: svp67
                  In any case, Kolchak was for one and indivisible ...

                  It was unlikely that then foreigners would help him.
                  English uniform
                  Shoulder strap french
                  Japanese tobacco,
                  Omsk ruler.
                5. Saxahorse
                  Saxahorse 15 May 2020 22: 44 New
                  +3
                  Quote: svp67
                  We are no longer given to know how it would be a victory "white

                  Don’t lie already .. In this country we live now ..
            2. apro
              apro 15 May 2020 14: 45 New
              16
              Quote: svp67
              Sorry, but the “red” “huge bunch” of foreigners brought to our territory to fight for them ...

              According to pzhlsta details. Which states sent military contingents to help the Reds ... come on details !!!
              1. svp67
                svp67 15 May 2020 14: 50 New
                -8
                Quote: apro
                According to pzhlsta details. Which states sent military contingents to help the Reds ... come on details !!!

                On the side of the “Reds” the Chinese, Latvians, Hungarians and many others fought for good material rewards ... and I don’t need to tell tales now that they were all “fiery” Communists. The vast majority of them, who survived of course, returned to their homeland after the war and lived as law-abiding citizens. Moreover, they fought against Soviet Russia for the same money and other interests.
                1. apro
                  apro 15 May 2020 15: 01 New
                  14
                  Quote: svp67
                  and I don’t need to tell fairy tales now

                  You dear, did not answer the question this time. Second. The Latvians and their military formations were created in Ri. And these are our compatriots if something. Like the Polish military formations are created in Ri. But they partly sided with the white and intervets and you do not take this into account .
                  Prisoners of war of the tripartite union who found themselves on the territory of Russia made their choice voluntarily and were part of the Red Army on a common basis and under Soviet command. The Chinese found themselves on Russian territory for hire and during the period of the revolution and the civil war, no one needed to leave. maybe some part went to the Reds. but then again, under the Soviet command and no one called them. and some to the Greens. such are the realities of troubled times.
                  1. svp67
                    svp67 15 May 2020 15: 14 New
                    -3
                    Quote: apro
                    and their military formations were created in ri. and these are our compatriots if something. like the Polish military formations are created in ri. but they partly sided with whites and intervets and you do not take this into account.

                    Right now, you are distorting, from the moment the Soviet regime recognized the independence of these countries, they ceased to be our compatriots, which they proved by moving to their homeland at the end of the war and pursuing a completely nationalist policy and fighting already against us. In particular, Latvian intelligence was the most informed about the state of affairs in Soviet Russia at that time and shared this information with all foreign states. Who do you think were the sources of this information.
                    And you are wrong about the Poles, there were only a few in the “white” movement, precisely because of the slogan about “united and indivisible Russia”
                  2. apro
                    apro 15 May 2020 15: 24 New
                    -1
                    Quote: svp67
                    they ceased to be our compatriots

                    A very bold statement ... and when the Soviets recognized the Baltic republics. And who contributed to this, do not tell me? It is just that the Soviets did not burn out to free these territories.
                    Quote: svp67
                    And you’re wrong about the Poles, there were only a few in the “white” movement,

                    One division is a unit? For the Civil War is a lot ..
                  3. svp67
                    svp67 15 May 2020 15: 27 New
                    +5
                    Quote: apro
                    it’s just that the Soviets didn’t burn out to liberate these territories.

                    But what do you say, and who drove the Poles from Vilno and made it the capital of the Lithuanian-Belarusian Republic? Independent, and not part of the RSFSR
                  4. apro
                    apro 15 May 2020 15: 40 New
                    -1
                    Quote: svp67
                    What are you saying

                    And what did the Bolsheviks do in 1918.1919? Not by chance fighting the Russian white liberation army? And did they have forces in the Baltic states and Finland?
                    I just don’t understand what you want to prove with your posts ... the more so, the statements are very flimsy
                2. svp67
                  svp67 15 May 2020 15: 35 New
                  0
                  Quote: apro
                  One division is a unit? For the Civil War is a lot.

                  No ... a division on the scale of any war is not much ...
              2. Alexga
                Alexga 15 May 2020 15: 29 New
                +5
                And you are not right about the Poles, there were only a few in the “white” movement, precisely because of the slogan about “united and indivisible Russia”

                Why so? And the 5th Polish division in the Kolchak army?
              3. svp67
                svp67 15 May 2020 15: 37 New
                +1
                Quote: AlexGa
                Why so? And the 5th Polish division in the Kolchak army?

                Which partly went to China, and partly was captivated by the red, ...
              4. Alexga
                Alexga 15 May 2020 15: 40 New
                +4
                First to Mongolia to Ungern, and then to Trans-Baikal to Semenov. There are memoirs of the engineer of the division, he colorfully describes everything.
      3. Barmaleyka
        Barmaleyka 15 May 2020 17: 39 New
        +1
        Quote: svp67
        On the side of the "Reds" the Chinese, Latvians, Hungarians fought for good material rewards

        the problem is that it was not on the side of the Whites that the Angles, Franks, mattresses, etc. fought, while the Whites fought on the side of all these gentlemen
        1. RUSS
          RUSS 16 May 2020 16: 52 New
          0
          Quote: Barmaleyka
          Quote: svp67
          On the side of the "Reds" the Chinese, Latvians, Hungarians fought for good material rewards

          the problem is that it was not on the side of the Whites that the Angles, Franks, mattresses, etc. fought, while the Whites fought on the side of all these gentlemen

          Chinese, Latvian, Estonian, Hungarian mercenaries fought on the Red side
        2. Barmaleyka
          Barmaleyka 16 May 2020 17: 03 New
          0
          read CAREFULLY again what I wrote
        3. reservist
          reservist 18 May 2020 12: 13 New
          0
          those. the whole Czechoslovak corps was not worth the Latvian division of Wacetis?
  2. AUL
    AUL 15 May 2020 15: 51 New
    +9
    Quote: apro
    According to pzhlsta details. Which states sent military contingents to help the Reds ...

    A year and a half at VO there was an article in which it was said that ASP (American) troops were brought into Arkhangelsk at the request of the Soviet government. Do not be lazy, find. Entente troops (although the Americans did not formally enter the Entente). Everyone knows about this "aggression", but did anyone hear about the battles of the Reds with Amers in these parts?
    I also read about a significant number of employed Chinese in serious sources.
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 15 May 2020 16: 29 New
      +4
      Quote: AUL
      I also read about a significant number of employed Chinese in serious sources.

      And besides the Chinese in the Red Army there were Hungarians, Jews, Germans, Austrians, Germans from the Volga region, Bulgarians, Slovaks, and maybe someone else, but the Mongols were for sure.
    2. Hypatius
      Hypatius 15 May 2020 17: 29 New
      +3
      I also read about a significant number of employed Chinese in serious sources.
      The Red Chinese were bad warriors, but the nation is cruel. They did well, walk fire on defenseless Cossack villages, in Siberia and Kazakhstan, while the Cossacks traveled home from the WWI fronts. Enemies burned their own hut, but there were thugs Cossacks, well, well.
      Who fueled terror if not import commissars? Who paid the hiring of the same Chinese railway workers to the firing squads? For me, rhetorical questions. Puppeteers from all sides, were outside the borders of the Republic of Ingushetia.
    3. Lopatov
      Lopatov 15 May 2020 20: 31 New
      +1
      Quote: AUL
      For a year and a half, the VO had an article stating that ASP (American) troops had been brought into Arkhangelsk at the request of the Soviet government. Do not be lazy, find.

      This is something you very well confuse
      1. AUL
        AUL 15 May 2020 20: 33 New
        0
        Quote: Spade
        This is something you very well confuse

        Not at all! I myself was very surprised at this fact.
      2. Lopatov
        Lopatov 15 May 2020 20: 36 New
        0
        So, some author completely lies.
      3. AUL
        AUL 15 May 2020 20: 38 New
        +1
        Quote: Spade
        So, some author completely lies.

        Now try to find this article. This may take some time.
      4. reservist
        reservist 18 May 2020 12: 15 New
        0
        managed to find? interesting however ...
      5. AUL
        AUL 18 May 2020 13: 39 New
        +1
        Rummaged, did not dig. On the Internet, I found that there was an offer from the Entente to our government to protect our north from Germans and Finns, and Trotsky considered it appropriate. In any case, there was no opposition on our part. And they left from there themselves.
      6. reservist
        reservist 18 May 2020 14: 47 New
        0
        But what was there to counteract in 1918? The imperial army is no longer there, the Red Army is not yet ...

        They couldn’t take Kotlas, they fought with the 6th Kedrov’s army and left after the defeat of the “whites” supported by them

        from the telegram of the commander in chief of the British expeditionary forces, General Ironside:
        The state of the Russian troops was such that it became clear that all my efforts to rally the Russian National Army had definitely failed. It is necessary to evacuate as soon as possible, unless the number of British troops here is increased

        goarctic.ru/live/grazhdanskaya-voyna-i-interventsiya-na-russkom-severe/
  • Sandor Clegane
    Sandor Clegane 15 May 2020 15: 28 New
    +1
    Quote: Kasym
    Many "whites" conspired with "foreigners

    like the red ones - Ulyanov did not make the Brest peace?
    Quote: Ros 56
    The Reds fought for the people

    Yeah, especially tell this to the Cossacks and the people of Tambov
    There were real patriots, and there and there and the name of them is the Russians !!
    And when the father of the son kills, or brother of the brother - nothing can be worse
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 15 May 2020 16: 38 New
      +9
      Quote: Sandor Clegane
      And when the father of the son kills, or brother of the brother - nothing can be worse

      Although I’m for the Reds in my life, I can’t harass both the Whites (with the exception of traitors like Krasnov), since among my great-grandfathers, grandfather and his children, and my paternal brothers, there were both Red and White who fought for Russia.
      1. Ros 56
        Ros 56 15 May 2020 19: 58 New
        0
        Of course, it is a difficult task, but you cannot sit on two chairs at the same time, you have to make a choice and your soul should tell it. And if you do not make this choice, then you are simply a traitor for both. Therefore, they were a Civil brother against a brother or a son against a father. For this they can be respected, and in the case of non-selection, it’s just ... it that hangs in the hole.
    2. Ros 56
      Ros 56 15 May 2020 20: 04 New
      0
      These are all words, you can’t stand all your life, you always have to make a choice, you are for these or those, otherwise you are no one and you can’t call you. This is the tragedy of any Civil War, as for example now happening in Ukraine.
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 15 May 2020 14: 34 New
    +2
    True, but many fought for the Reds, and not only in the Civil, but also in the Second World War.
    1. Grandfather
      Grandfather 15 May 2020 18: 12 New
      +1
      In Bashkiria, a bust of Kolchak
      Well, a nail for 200 in the head, installed. fool
  • New
    New Year day 15 May 2020 15: 35 New
    +3
    Quote: Ros 56
    The Reds fought for the people, and the White for some for the Tsar, and some for the capitalists

    the white army was staffed only by nobles, were there no representatives of the people? Nobles are not a people. already clear request
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 15 May 2020 16: 41 New
      +4
      Quote: Silvestr
      the white army was staffed only by nobles, were there no representatives of the people?

      After WWII, my grandfather was not for the Reds, not for the Whites, but when one or the other came to rob, he beat both of them with his fellow villagers ..
  • tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 15 May 2020 16: 12 New
    +4
    Quote: Ros 56
    The Reds fought for the people, and the White for some for the Tsar, and some for the capitalists

    And the white beat the people, and the red beat the people. And now you won’t count who is more and who is less. The main thing is who won, and the winner followed the people.
    1. AUL
      AUL 15 May 2020 18: 29 New
      +3
      Quote: tihonmarine
      The main thing is who won, and the winner followed the people.

      And the winners, as usual, wrote the story. So, as considered necessary.
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 15 May 2020 19: 46 New
        0
        Quote: AUL
        And the winners, as usual, wrote the story.

        I personally had no doubt, I think you too.
    2. Ros 56
      Ros 56 15 May 2020 20: 10 New
      +2
      Well, what nonsense are you writing, but what, white and red are not people? And it turns out, the people beat the people. Some crap, it’s difficult to do all this, to make your only choice and try to remain human.
      1. Overlock
        Overlock 15 May 2020 20: 37 New
        +2
        Quote: Ros 56
        and what, white and red are not people? And it turns out, the people beat the people.

        it’s just that the people are divided into parts: some for the whites, others for the reds, and still others for themselves. And they beat both white and red (Makhno example)
        1. Ros 56
          Ros 56 15 May 2020 20: 55 New
          -2
          Makhno is an ordinary gopnik, this is not a people.
      2. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 15 May 2020 21: 16 New
        +3
        Quote: Ros 56
        And it turns out, the people beat the people.

        Well, who beat the people ??? Aliens or what?
  • Oleg Zorin
    Oleg Zorin 15 May 2020 18: 23 New
    +1
    As it turned out, they had very peculiar ideas about the good of the people and not very humane methods of achieving this good.
  • Oyo Sarkazmi
    Oyo Sarkazmi 16 May 2020 17: 26 New
    +2
    White fought for the right to continue taxing people with land rents. After all, peasants were freed without land, so they immediately became tenants from their landowners. And dad and son Kolchak were landowners. And the peasants with them - as if in a mortgage. For 30% per annum.
  • Lopatov
    Lopatov 15 May 2020 20: 26 New
    +1
    Quote: svp67
    Excuse me, were the "reds" in this respect "goodies"?

    No.
    And this means that there is no need to erect monuments to either. no other.
  • Piramidon
    Piramidon 15 May 2020 21: 57 New
    0
    Quote: svp67
    Excuse me, were the "reds" in this respect "goodies"?

    Both sides were far from angels.
  • Oyo Sarkazmi
    Oyo Sarkazmi 16 May 2020 17: 22 New
    +2
    Quote: svp67
    Excuse me, were the "reds" in this respect "goodies"?

    Kolchak - from the elite of the Russian Empire. The very one that sheared the land rent from the peasants, and traveled with this money, organized expeditions, well, and ate deliciously. If Tagir Ibragimov, a tradesman, dared to cross the road to Admiral Kolchak (literally, on the street), then he would have tasted good lashes on the exit ...
  • Sergey49
    Sergey49 16 May 2020 20: 23 New
    0
    Whoever triumphs, the good who loses is evil. It has been and always will be.
  • 4ekist
    4ekist 15 May 2020 15: 32 New
    +4
    And how about, for example, Comrade Comrade’s activities? Tukhachevsky? Was that a good kid?
    The brutal military occupation of the insurgent areas, the destruction of farms and the destruction of the homes of the rebel participants and their families, hostages, including from among children, the creation of concentration camps and repression up to the execution for disobedience, for harboring “bandits” and weapons, that is, . terror of the civilian population was organized. In the course of the suppression of the uprising, Tukhachevsky destroyed many villages and villages using artillery, armored vehicles and toxic gases. (The source of information is the portal History.RF, https://histrf.ru/lenta-vremeni/event/view/tambovskoie-antonovskoie-kriestianskoie-vosstaniie)
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 15 May 2020 17: 25 New
      +4
      Quote: 4ekist
      And how about, for example, Comrade Comrade’s activities? Tukhachevsky? Was that a good kid?

      and a traitor.
    2. Ros 56
      Ros 56 15 May 2020 20: 16 New
      +2
      It's good to rant on the couch when everything is behind and you yourself were not there. Look at Ukraine and everything will immediately become clear, it’s painful for you to all theorize, but the time has come and the choice is before you, you are for Donbass or for Bandera. It was exactly the same in the Civil.
      1. val43
        val43 16 May 2020 08: 59 New
        -1
        What are you smoking so hard there?
  • AUL
    AUL 15 May 2020 15: 33 New
    +6
    And who in Civil
    was not, did not rage ...
    Such was the war ...
  • Oleg Zorin
    Oleg Zorin 15 May 2020 18: 09 New
    +5
    And who did not rage? (((They exterminated each other with unprecedented bitterness
  • reservist
    reservist 15 May 2020 13: 54 New
    25
    British crown service doesn’t count?

    Kolchak himself wrote to Timireva:
    December 30, 1917 I was accepted into the service of His Majesty the King of England

    topwar.ru/103797-kolchak-predatel-i-gosudarstvennyy-izmennik-dvoynoy-agent-svidetelstvuet-sovetnik-prezidenta-vilsona.html
    1. svp67
      svp67 15 May 2020 14: 00 New
      -5
      Quote: reservist
      British crown service doesn’t count?

      There was such a fact in his biography, but nevertheless he returned to Russia, without English bayonets
      1. reservist
        reservist 15 May 2020 14: 21 New
        16
        Quote: svp67
        ... he returned to Russia, without English bayonets


        British sailors in the parade in front of the headquarters of the Czechoslovak Legion.
        Vladivostok. August 19, 1918 Photographer unknown. RGAKFD. Arch. No. 3-1894
        1. svp67
          svp67 15 May 2020 14: 40 New
          +3
          Quote: reservist
          British sailors in the parade in front of the headquarters of the Czechoslovak Legion.
          Vladivostok.

          Chinese Red Army detachment on the Kolchak front ...

          1. reservist
            reservist 15 May 2020 14: 45 New
            +9
            Quote: svp67
            Chinese Red Army detachment on the Kolchak front ...

            probably in the photo the regular military unit of the Chinese army sent by the Chinese authorities to fight against Kolchak?
            1. svp67
              svp67 15 May 2020 14: 52 New
              -1
              Quote: reservist
              probably in the photo the regular military unit of the Chinese army sent by the Chinese authorities to fight against Kolchak?

              These were “volunteers” hired from the Chinese “zarobitchans” who were still working in tsarist Russia, for there was no other work, and they did not want to return home without money
              1. reservist
                reservist 15 May 2020 15: 16 New
                +2
                and didn’t they pay the money allowance in the white armies to the soldiers? the same Kolchak (with a gold reserve of RI) probably had a good opportunity to “outbid” the Chinese?
                imho, the Chinese themselves could compare the realities of life in the "white" and "red" territories and make a choice ...

                from the resolution of the Congress of Representatives of the Chinese detachments of November 18, 1918:
                The formation of Chinese Red Army international detachments in Russia takes place at the initiative of the Chinese workers' organizations themselves, by their own forces and their own command, and, moreover, exclusively from Chinese volunteer revolutionaries ...
                1. svp67
                  svp67 15 May 2020 15: 40 New
                  +2
                  In the days of the Republic of Ingushetia, the Chinese were brought in so much that there were enough of them “white”, the same “called” them, but in smaller quantities because of distrust of them
                  1. reservist
                    reservist 15 May 2020 16: 09 New
                    +4
                    Quote: svp67
                    ... the Chinese were brought so much that there were enough of them "white", the same "called" them ...

                    those. the argument about the Chinese in the Red Army removed?
                2. Hypatius
                  Hypatius 15 May 2020 17: 43 New
                  -2
                  the same Kolchak (with a gold reserve of RI) probably had a good opportunity to “outbid” the Chinese?
                  And here’s the hassle, but where did the Reds get hired money, if Kolchak had the reserve? There is only one conclusion, they were frantically sponsored by foreign countries. Not for nothing that the Bolsheviks sent Trotsky, a communist, with several wagons of archival documents. So that the ends in the water, and access to these archives is still closed. Russians killed each other for other people's money. And, it seems, these elected from the Fed also welded.
                  1. reservist
                    reservist 15 May 2020 18: 12 New
                    -2
                    Quote: Hypatius
                    ... and where did the Reds have money to hire, if Kolchak had the reserve? There is only one conclusion, they were frantically sponsored by foreign countries.

                    the same foreign country that organized an intervention against Soviet Russia?
                  2. Hypatius
                    Hypatius 15 May 2020 21: 02 New
                    -3

                    the same foreign country that organized an intervention against Soviet Russia?
                    It turns out that so. They could, and still it was who would win. The world empire is knocked out, gold and other resources are stolen, and all by the wrong hands. I don’t see anything fantastic in this. Similar scenarios are now used.
                  3. reservist
                    reservist 18 May 2020 11: 05 New
                    -1
                    Quote: Hypatius
                    They could, and still it was who would win.

                    Why did it happen ?
                    The Entente needed Russia’s participation in the “war to the victory ...”, and the tripartite alliance needed a separate peace
                    the same “whites” collaborated with various “sponsors”, Skoropadsky and Krasnov with the Germans, Denikin and Kolchak with the Entente ...
          2. awdrgy
            awdrgy 15 May 2020 18: 54 New
            0
            Like, as if now, in the case of the war, one of the Gaster’s sides will put it under arms? Is this a complete seam? So they will “come off” and “come off” (especially in Moscow)
        2. AUL
          AUL 15 May 2020 18: 32 New
          +2
          Quote: reservist
          probably in the photo a regular military unit of the Chinese army sent by the Chinese authorities

          No, just mercenaries. For denyuzhki.
          1. reservist
            reservist 15 May 2020 19: 19 New
            +2
            or internationalist volunteers, which in this case doesn’t matter ...
            trying to understand the logic ... why compare them with the regular part of the British army?
  • reservist
    reservist 15 May 2020 14: 26 New
    11
    1918 year. The English squadron at the Murmansk raid.

    although ... in 1918 Kolchak did not reach Murmansk ...
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 17 May 2020 16: 16 New
      0
      Quote: reservist
      1918 year. The English squadron at the Murmansk raid.

      although ... in 1918 Kolchak did not reach Murmansk ...

      On March 6, 1918, British troops landed in the Russian North and captured Arkhangelsk and the Murmansk Railway, to impede the naval supply of the German troops and the Bolsheviks who concluded the Brest-Litovsk peace with them.
      1. reservist
        reservist 18 May 2020 10: 48 New
        0
        Quote: RUSS
        ... to impede the naval supply of the German troops ...

        Nothing that the ports of Germany in the Baltic, and the German troops at that time were in the Baltic and Ukraine?

        Do you think that it was more convenient for the Germans to supply the army through Murmansk than via the Baltic states?
  • tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 15 May 2020 17: 38 New
    -1
    Quote: svp67
    but nevertheless he returned to Russia, without English bayonets

    But he didn’t voluntarily return.
  • tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 15 May 2020 18: 02 New
    +7
    Quote: reservist
    British crown service doesn’t count?
    July 1917, Kolchak leaves for the States. But how is he leaving! Through Finland, Sweden and Norway to Bergen, having traveled part of the way under a false name and in civilian clothes. All this - allegedly in order "not to be captured by the Germans." We went in plain clothes and officers accompanying him.
    From Bergen, accompanied by destroyers (!), The ship with Kolchak on board is sent to the English port of Aberdeen, and only on August 17 the Russians arrive in London. Twenty days were spent on the journey from St. Petersburg to just London. And for another two weeks Kolchak is stuck in England. Although safe, and then still a short way through his native Russia and the Pacific Ocean, Kolchak chooses something that looks absolutely absurd. Then, for almost two weeks, he hung out in London - allegedly "idle" and in anticipation of an opportunity overseas. Kolchak, after the failure of the Kornilovites, was leisurely sent by the British from Scottish Glasgow to Canadian Halifax. He sailed aboard the auxiliary cruiser for 11 days.
    According to his "legend" -cover, he was still traveling to the States to participate in the development of the landing operation, but suddenly the need for a "super mine specialist" somehow disappeared.
    A person with an undefined status of Kolchak was received in the US in the state department, there was a meeting with President Wilson. In general, America made Kolchak what she needed, America. He served her until February 7, 1920, when the Bolsheviks shot him. And the Austro-Hungarians gave it to the Bolsheviks, and the friends of the Americans did not even think to save him. I have no pity for him.
  • To be or not to be
    To be or not to be 15 May 2020 13: 59 New
    14
    English uniform
    Shoulder strap french
    Japanese tobacco,
    Omsk ruler.

    Chorus:

    Oh, my scumbag
    American,
    There will be no money
    I'll take it for sale!

    The uniform has been torn down
    Epaulet fell
    Tobacco smoked,
    The ruler was washed away.

    Omsk occupied
    Irkutsk taken away
    And with a scumbag
    Kolchak was taken.

    1920 (?)

    Sun Vishnevsky. Red Fleet in Songs (Heroic Oratorio Poem). Sobr. Op., vol. 1, pp. 72-73. West Sun Vishnevsky in the early 20s. Cited from the publication: Russian Soviet Folklore. Anthology / Comp. and note. L.V. Domanovsky, N.V. Novikova, G.G. Shapovalova. Ed. N.V. Novikova and B.N. Putilova. L., 1967.
    They came to Siberia. Extortions and terror began. Even prosperous peasants (and in Siberia there were many) left for the partisans .. (from the stories of the Siberian woman.)
  • Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 15 May 2020 14: 46 New
    15
    Quote: svp67
    Now, the image that was created by the "red" propaganda and "polished" during the USSR plays a great part against him ...

    In the case of Kolchak, special problems in creating an image there wasn’t - the Admiral and his subordinates did the maximum possible to remain in memory as punishers and hangers.
    We waited for Kolchak, as Christ's day, and waited, as the most predatory beast. We flogged everyone here, right and wrong. If not fastened, then they will shoot or pin with a bayonet. God forbid this fierce Kolchak ...

    This is incomprehensible to the mind: Kolchak took several months to turn the territories liberated from the Reds into a hornet's nest of rebellions and riots against the whites.
    1. Sergey S.
      Sergey S. 15 May 2020 15: 53 New
      +3
      Quote: Alexey RA
      Kolchak took several months to turn the territories liberated from the Reds into a hornet's nest of rebellions and riots against the whites.

      He always commanded.
      In excuse, and did not spare himself.
      But you cannot put such people as a leader. It will ruin any business if it is necessary to work for the team.
  • Sergey S.
    Sergey S. 15 May 2020 15: 48 New
    +1
    Quote: svp67
    Kolchak is still not Krasnov, he did not go to the service.

    I don’t know who is worse.
    Everything is clear about Krasnov ... he sold out to the Nazis ...
    And it was stupid and not for long.
    Kolchak did the same, but with the British ...
    If Kolchak won, it means that Russia was sold to England ... And this could be for a long time ...
  • RUSS
    RUSS 15 May 2020 17: 16 New
    0
    Quote: svp67
    Quote: Leader of the Redskins
    Well, now, not to Krasnov, so Kolchak ...

    Kolchak is still not Krasnov, he did not go to the service. Now, the image that was created by the "red" propaganda and "polished" during the USSR plays a great part against him ...

    It’s absolutely true, I’m sure that the monuments to Kolchak will continue to be opened
  • Lars971a
    Lars971a 15 May 2020 20: 37 New
    +2
    Quote: svp67
    Quote: Leader of the Redskins
    Well, now, not to Krasnov, so Kolchak ...

    Kolchak is still not Krasnov, he did not go to the service. Now, the image that was created by the "red" propaganda and "polished" during the USSR plays a great part against him ...
    One question is what was the first red terror or white. I’ll answer right away, from the beginning there was white terror, to which the Reds answered .......................... ..... And at Kolchak, his hands to the elbow in blood, there are no options
  • ltc35
    ltc35 15 May 2020 22: 02 New
    +3
    The best propaganda is the story of my great-grandfather and my great-grandmother. They captured this image with interest, when in the village Kolchakites shot several men, and the rest, who refused to serve in his army, left with ramrods. Backs in minced blood threshed. And the places of executions are still marked with monuments throughout Siberia.
  • Saxahorse
    Saxahorse 15 May 2020 22: 48 New
    +2
    Quote: svp67
    the olchak is still not Krasnov; he did not go to the service.

    Wow, he’s much worse. Kolchak, who came up with preventive executions of civilians, must go at the Himmler and Bandera levels ...
  • Tank jacket
    Tank jacket 16 May 2020 07: 03 New
    +1
    Did Kolchak swear allegiance to the English crown? Thank you ... Anglo-Saxons are the enemies of the people since the time of Ivan the Terrible ....
  • Awaz
    Awaz 16 May 2020 10: 40 New
    +4
    You see, the crimes of Kolchak and his troops were vividly and beautifully (if you can call it that) the curators described him. These people did not have any positive emotions for either the Reds or the Russian people in general, but they were astonished at the brutality of the Kolchakites. Given that the terror was not so much against the Reds, but against the civilian population located in the territories occupied by Kolchak. Everyone knew about the crimes, including Kolchak, and therefore he is not worthy of forgiveness.
    And one moment. Sailors did not go for Kolchak. Not a single sailor has ever served in his army. The reason is that they in abundance in their own skin experienced the delights of working with him, serving in the Navy ....
    The behavior of Kolchakites in Siberia is very similar to the behavior of Bandera at the time.
    By the way yet. Still in 18, during another attempted coup, the Reds caught Kolchak and he gave them the officer’s word not to fight against the new government, for which he was released.
    What I described is like this, drafts. If you delve into, in his life story there is much more ...
  • fif21
    fif21 16 May 2020 15: 51 New
    +3
    Quote: svp67
    Now, the image that was created by the "red" propaganda and "polished" during the USSR plays a great part against him ...

    In the Urals, they still remember this bastard! He polished his image. And the one who erected a monument to this body with low social responsibility simply spat in the face of his grandfathers and great-grandfathers.
    May 9 is not his holiday. hi
    1. Rusfaner
      Rusfaner 16 May 2020 17: 57 New
      +2
      Yes, they remembered Kolchak in the Urals - my grandfather called him a flayer, said that a man who refused to go to serve hung on his own gate. He took away the seed grain and fed them horses.
  • kostik-oz
    kostik-oz 17 May 2020 16: 29 New
    +2
    The only difference is between krasnov and kolchach! Hitler had Krasnov, and the Entente had a kolchak in the servants. And so, the same murderers and hangers of their people!
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. cniza
      cniza 15 May 2020 13: 56 New
      +4
      It looks like you're right, this is the focused work of our "partners" ...
      1. aleksejkabanets
        aleksejkabanets 15 May 2020 14: 25 New
        11
        Quote: cniza
        It looks like you're right, this is the focused work of our "partners" ...

        I am afraid that this is the purposeful work of our authorities. They really want to. so that we have a similar regime in Russia today.
        1. cniza
          cniza 15 May 2020 14: 28 New
          -3
          Do you seriously think that our authorities are working on the collapse of the country? do our authorities want a revolution? I do not see such attacks.
          1. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 15 May 2020 14: 34 New
            +9
            Quote: cniza
            Do you seriously think that our authorities are working on the collapse of the country? do our authorities want a revolution? I do not see such attacks.

            I seriously believe that “our authorities” want to quickly fill their pockets, and they don’t give a damn about the “side effects” of the collapse of the country. Neither they nor their children have long been living in Russia. Russia for them is something like a hunting ground where you can earn a living. And their life goes on outside of Russia.
            1. cniza
              cniza 15 May 2020 16: 50 New
              +2
              You think that for so much time in power they have not solved their financial problems, but you probably have a lower rank and status in view of the authorities, so here we often contribute to this, and our "partners" want to ruin us, including with the help of medium and small level corruption ...
              1. aleksejkabanets
                aleksejkabanets 15 May 2020 19: 13 New
                +2
                Quote: cniza
                You think that for so much time in power they have not solved their financial problems, but you probably have a lower rank and status in view of the authorities, so here we often contribute to this, and our "partners" want to ruin us, including with the help of medium and small level corruption ...

                They will never solve "their financial problems." If a dog began to drag chickens, do you think she will ever stop doing this? Tell me what they’re doing with such a dog.
          2. Banshee
            Banshee 15 May 2020 14: 35 New
            10
            Quote: cniza
            Do you seriously think that our authorities are working on the collapse of the country? do our authorities want a revolution? I do not see such attacks.


            Well, see slowly little by little. Of course, the board to Mannerheim, the monument to Kolchak, the monument to Krasnov - that’s all from the Martians! The authorities have nothing to do with it!

            I envy how easy it is for you ...
            1. cniza
              cniza 15 May 2020 15: 35 New
              -2
              Well, yes, it’s Putin personally with Medvedev - Mishustin is led, developed a plan on how to deprive themselves of armchairs and saw the branch on which they sit ...
              1. Leshy1975
                Leshy1975 15 May 2020 17: 02 New
                +5
                Quote: cniza
                Well, yes, it’s Putin personally with Medvedev - Mishustin is led, developed a plan on how to deprive themselves of armchairs and saw the branch on which they sit ...

                Why personally. It is enough to choose the closest circle, in accordance with their views and values. The rest this close circle will do:
                MOSCOW, October 18, 2016. / TASS /. Installation of a memorial plaque Karl Mannerheim in St. Petersburg was not a mistake, protests are associated with ignorance of history, I am sure Special Representative of the President of the Russian Federation on environmental issues, ecology and transport Sergey Ivanov. Post Head of the Kremlin Administrationin June of this year he participated at the opening of the plaque.

                PS So by chance. You can’t write it either. hi
                1. cniza
                  cniza 15 May 2020 19: 54 New
                  0
                  Why personally. It is enough to choose the closest circle, in accordance with their views and values. The rest this close circle will do:


                  Will do what? will voluntarily work to deprive themselves of seats and positions?
                  Don't find this weird?

                  The installation of a memorial plaque to Karl Mannerheim in St. Petersburg was not a mistake,


                  And who says this is a mistake?

                  As the head of the Kremlin’s administration, in June of this year, he participated in the opening of the memorial plaque.


                  And where is he now and what is he doing? You yourself answered borrowed ...
          3. New
            New Year day 15 May 2020 15: 18 New
            +7
            Quote: cniza
            Do you seriously think that our authorities are working on the collapse of the country? do our authorities want a revolution? I do not see such attacks

            Do you think that the same pension reform or enormous social injustice contribute to love and mutual understanding in the country?
            1. cniza
              cniza 15 May 2020 15: 36 New
              +1
              Pension reform is a separate song and would not discuss it here, but it didn’t add love to the authorities for sure ...
              1. New
                New Year day 15 May 2020 15: 38 New
                +2
                Quote: cniza
                Pension reform is a separate song and would not discuss it here, but it didn’t add love to the authorities for sure ...

                true, just a person did not notice this "love"
        2. Gennady Korsunov
          Gennady Korsunov 15 May 2020 14: 39 New
          +1
          So he is, haven't you noticed !!
      2. Diver-SP
        Diver-SP 15 May 2020 15: 12 New
        0
        Quote: cniza
        It looks like you're right, this is the focused work of our "partners" ...

        I have been shouting about this for a long time. !!! . And recently looked at the "report" of Navalny Kuda invested 68 million .. FBK .. And part of it disappeared!
        This is clearly .. Russia is being blown up from the inside!
        1. New
          New Year day 15 May 2020 15: 19 New
          0
          Quote: Diver-SP
          This is clearly .. Russia is being blown up from the inside!

          Who are you?
          1. Diver-SP
            Diver-SP 15 May 2020 15: 38 New
            -2
            Quote: Silvestr
            Quote: Diver-SP
            This is clearly .. Russia is being blown up from the inside!

            Who are you?

            The fifth column of the State Department now .. And it turns out they are not bad!
            And you Sylvester also seem to be one of those .. hi
            Maybe I'm wrong, but such a howl is worth ..
            1. New
              New Year day 15 May 2020 15: 40 New
              +1
              Quote: Diver-SP
              The fifth column of the State Department now .. And it turns out they are not bad!

              probably those who have accounts abroad and real estate. Did not notice?
              Quote: Diver-SP
              And you, Sylvester, also seem to be one of those

              but I have neither one nor the other hi
          2. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 15 May 2020 16: 13 New
            0
            Quote: Silvestr
            Who are you?

            As the saying goes, "guess with three attempts."
    2. svp67
      svp67 15 May 2020 14: 02 New
      -1
      Quote: Diver-SP
      Do you think this is the people of Bashkiria?

      Excuse me, but this monument that the robot ordered and installed?
      Quote: Diver-SP
      This is such a flash mob that goes around Russia to humiliate us ..

      And how are they humiliating us with Kolchak?
      1. ioan-e
        ioan-e 15 May 2020 14: 12 New
        16
        Quote: svp67
        And how are they humiliating us with Kolchak?

        By the fact that this is an overtone window!

        According to Tagir Ibragimov, Kolchak deserves to be immortalized. He believes that if it were not for the Civil War, he would be "honored no less than Konstantin Tsiolkovsky or Dmitry Mendeleev." After all, Kolchak was an outstanding scientist and polar explorer.

        He's completely fucked up, I see here - I don't see here? And General Vlasov was the hero of the battle for Moscow, and then the ROA created and in the memory of the people remained a collaborator and a complete bastard! So now he also put a monument or what?
        1. svp67
          svp67 15 May 2020 14: 25 New
          -1
          Quote: ioan-e
          and then the ROA created and in the memory of the people remained a collaborator and a complete bastard!

          Vlasov went to direct service to the enemies of our Fatherland. Kolchak is another story.
          1. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 15 May 2020 14: 28 New
            +7
            Quote: svp67
            Vlasov went to direct service to the enemies of our Fatherland. Kolchak is another story.

            What is this "different story"?
            1. svp67
              svp67 15 May 2020 14: 55 New
              +1
              Quote: aleksejkabanets
              What is this "different story"?

              Straight. Having become the Supreme Ruler, they did not bow to any foreign country in loyalty and tried to pursue an independent policy, which in principle they signed a death sentence for, the revival of a strong United and Indivisible Russia was not included in the plans of the same British, and they did everything that Kolchak would first arrested, and then issued "red" "whitespace"
              1. aleksejkabanets
                aleksejkabanets 15 May 2020 15: 02 New
                +1
                Quote: svp67
                Quote: aleksejkabanets
                What is this "different story"?

                Straight. Having become the Supreme Ruler, they did not bow to any foreign country in loyalty and tried to pursue an independent policy, which in principle they signed a death sentence for, the revival of a strong United and Indivisible Russia was not included in the plans of the same British, and they did everything that Kolchak would first arrested, and then issued "red" "whitespace"

                He gave concessions to foreigners only, recognized royal debts, etc. In general, he acted as Kudrin and Chubais do not do today. And the people of Russia hung and burned. Kolchak then, even in the "holy nineties" could not be rehabilitated.
                1. svp67
                  svp67 15 May 2020 15: 17 New
                  -1
                  Quote: aleksejkabanets
                  He gave concessions to foreigners only, recognized royal debts, etc.

                  But precisely because of the failure to recognize the tsarist debts of the USSR, other countries did not recognize for a long time, so this is a necessary measure
                  Quote: aleksejkabanets
                  Kolchak then, even in the "holy nineties" could not be rehabilitated.

                  And the monuments erected at that time and the whole film ...
                  1. aleksejkabanets
                    aleksejkabanets 15 May 2020 15: 21 New
                    +1
                    Quote: svp67
                    But precisely because of the failure to recognize the tsarist debts of the USSR, other countries did not recognize for a long time, so this is a necessary measure

                    Do you think that Lenin needed to recognize royal debts, return the manufacturers, and then give half the country to the mercy of "Western investors"?
                    1. svp67
                      svp67 15 May 2020 15: 31 New
                      +3
                      Quote: aleksejkabanets
                      Do you think that Lenin needed to recognize royal debts, return the manufacturers, and then give half the country to the mercy of "Western investors"?

                      You just don't know the story well. At the first stage, only those enterprises whose owners refused to cooperate with Soviet power were nationalized. Universal nationalization occurred later, and then the time of NEP came, where efficiently working "former manufacturers" at their own enterprises were only welcomed.
                      And there was no longer anything to repay the Tsar’s debts to Lenin, everything went to Germany’s “indemnity” following the results of the Brest Peace
                    2. aleksejkabanets
                      aleksejkabanets 15 May 2020 16: 15 New
                      -1
                      Quote: svp67
                      You just don't know the story well.

                      You want to say that you know her (story) well?
                  2. AUL
                    AUL 15 May 2020 16: 13 New
                    +3
                    Quote: aleksejkabanets
                    Do you think that Lenin needed to recognize royal debts, return the manufacturers, and then give half the country to the mercy of "Western investors"?

                    Something I did not see where svp67 I thought so! All this was carried out a little later and successfully continue to carry out now!
        2. ioan-e
          ioan-e 15 May 2020 16: 20 New
          0
          Quote: svp67
          Quote: ioan-e
          and then the ROA created and in the memory of the people remained a collaborator and a complete bastard!

          Vlasov went to direct service to the enemies of our Fatherland. Kolchak is another story.

          Cooperation with the interventionists is no different from "serving the enemy", even if you think differently!
      2. aleksejkabanets
        aleksejkabanets 15 May 2020 14: 51 New
        +4
        Quote: ioan-e
        He's completely fucked up, I see here - I don't see here?

        Yes, he does not care what the head of administration said, then he will do it. Today kolchak, tomorrow the chieftain of seeds, after tomorrow Hitler. What the administration will say, if only it would steal.
    3. Diver-SP
      Diver-SP 15 May 2020 15: 20 New
      +5
      Quote: svp67
      Excuse me, but this monument that the robot ordered and installed?

      Everything is just very Sergey! A boy arrives from Moscow with a canoe and to the head of any town or even a city at once .. he picks out a wad of dollars, we want to put up a monument! You don’t mind, and a pack of dollars quietly moves to the table towards him .. And quietly says so with a threat, you are "not red brown and anti-Semite"? It goes all over Russia restoring the history of the present ..
      And "The Presidential Foundation is a sponsor with Mikhalkov or Friedman (the main thing is to name the names known), etc."
      Imagine the eyes of a municipal official, and especially when you see a pack of dollars that he has never seen in his life ...
      laughing negative This is how they act everywhere .. Here and think hi
    4. 210ox
      210ox 15 May 2020 15: 33 New
      +1
      This monument was ordered not by a robot, and not by the people. Private person, very rich. And for example, it’s weak for him to put money into a better deed — a bronze bust is clearly not cheap. He paid for treatment to needy children, for example. And then amused his ego.
    5. Diver-SP
      Diver-SP 15 May 2020 15: 48 New
      +5
      Quote: svp67
      And how are they humiliating us with Kolchak?

      Orders did not read it? Hang all the rebels, flog the peasants and the soldiers .. I trampled the gold of the tsarist empire, part in Japan, part of the white whale took the rest with me to Baikal .. I shot him a lot of blood correctly on him .. I thought I outweigh the half of Russia, and the rest will kneel ! ..Denikin is also a Semenov bandit ..
      The Bolsheviks had their own truth OWN, and we showed these "gentlemen" that cooks can lead Russia and the Sons of shoemakers (Stalin, Zhukov, etc.)
      Such a country was created that gentlemen did not even dream of your power .. But alas, you avenged us bastards and harshly .. And now we see what you are doing from the country. hi
    6. Was mammoth
      Was mammoth 16 May 2020 07: 26 New
      0
      Quote: svp67
      Excuse me, but this monument that the robot ordered and installed?

      "But the bust was recreated by a little-known sculptor from Voronezh Alexey Dikunov. In We did not find a sculptor for Sterlitamak who could support us."
      T. Ibragimov,
  • Vasily Ponomarev
    Vasily Ponomarev 15 May 2020 14: 06 New
    +5
    > to rock the country
    "There is no time for buildup"
  • Gennady Korsunov
    Gennady Korsunov 15 May 2020 14: 31 New
    +7
    What do we have to do? So change the bourgeois power to the people !! Kolchak fought not for the people, but for the bourgeoisie, and now they are erecting a monument to him ..
    1. aleksejkabanets
      aleksejkabanets 15 May 2020 15: 17 New
      +2
      Quote: Gennady Korsunov
      What do we have to do? So change the bourgeois power to the people !! Kolchak fought not for the people, but for the bourgeoisie, and now they are erecting a monument to him ..

      It would be strange if it were the other way around. I do not see “freshly placed” monuments to Lenin. The parade used to be, we held on November 7th, today and November 7th is not celebrated. For this, they hang boards on Mannerheim, kolchak and krasnov, erect monuments. The neighboring house, the administration painted it with tricolor, on Victory Day. Photo report made. Going to work! They probably received prizes, gave orders to those who needed it, Sin said so, but it’s good that my grandfather did not live to see all this.
      1. Shadow
        Shadow 15 May 2020 15: 44 New
        -3
        Lenin was only a professional revolutionary who was sitting in restaurants while the best of the Russians waged the most difficult and terrible war in history, and then he realized the anthropocentric and hedonistic idea even through disgust through a well-known place.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. aleksejkabanets
          aleksejkabanets 15 May 2020 16: 09 New
          +3
          Quote: Shadow
          Lenin was only a professional revolutionary who was sitting in restaurants while the best of the Russians waged the most difficult and terrible war in history, and then he realized the anthropocentric and hedonistic idea even through disgust through a well-known place.

          Lenin is the founder of the state, whose legacy we still "gobble up." At least once, try to "sit" in prison or a colony, for a common cause, for those who are "below you" on a social scale (for Tajiks, Uzbeks and other guest workers), while the workers were no different from them. The First World War, for us Russians, was no different from Russian-Japanese and radically different from the Great Patriotic War, why, how do you think?
          1. Shadow
            Shadow 15 May 2020 16: 31 New
            -1
            Equality and fraternity are good, of course. Another question is that, firstly, the Marxists themselves confine themselves to this, not going beyond the completely egoistic human nature and declaring the construction of a just society from unjust people, and secondly, the Leninist position on the World War is simply meanness, a spit in those who fought and robbing his own people in favor of the defeated enemy without five minutes.
            1. aleksejkabanets
              aleksejkabanets 15 May 2020 19: 05 New
              +2
              Quote: Shadow
              Equality and fraternity are good, of course. Another question is that, firstly, the Marxists themselves confine themselves to this, not going beyond the completely egoistic human nature and declaring the construction of a just society from unjust people, and secondly, the Leninist position on the World War is simply meanness, a spit in those who fought and robbing his own people in favor of the defeated enemy without five minutes.

              Tell me, do you and Potanin have common interests? Are you and Abramovich probably going to the seaside to relax? Tell me, will the son of Sechin rot together with you in the trenches? I do not want any war, I do not need it, then why should I condemn the Leninist position regarding the First World War? I personally do not need “conditional Dardanelles” at all.
              1. Shadow
                Shadow 15 May 2020 19: 18 New
                -1
                But with Wilhelm and Hindenburg, an ordinary resident of St. Petersburg, Moscow or Nizhny Novgorod had no common interests, especially in the conditions of war with them, and there was communion with the inhabitants of Kiev, Minsk and other cities given for looting and scolding to the invaders, and there was also at least minimal respect for themselves and their compatriots.
                1. aleksejkabanets
                  aleksejkabanets 15 May 2020 20: 14 New
                  +4
                  Quote: Shadow
                  But with Wilhelm and Hindenburg, an ordinary resident of St. Petersburg, Moscow or Nizhny Novgorod had no common interests, especially in the conditions of war with them, and there was communion with the inhabitants of Kiev, Minsk and other cities given for looting and scolding to the invaders, and there was also at least minimal respect for themselves and their compatriots.

                  You want to say that these are ordinary residents of Minsk, Kiev, unleashed the Russo-Japanese War? They unleashed the first world? Lenin's position was to translate the war into a change in the social formation. In my opinion, he did it very well. The USSR was a state that respected the rights of the majority of the people, modern Russia respects the rights of a miserable minority, to the detriment of the majority. Therefore, the heroes of present-day Russia are such - Kolchak, Mannergain, Krasnov, and monuments will be erected ataman Semenov and Vlasov soon. Because they all fought against communism, and therefore are close in spirit to the current regime.
                  1. Shadow
                    Shadow 15 May 2020 20: 36 New
                    0
                    Every nation has economic interests - even in a capitalist system.
                    As for the defeatists' course, it was treacherous and anti-people: a white world was not concluded without annexations and indemnities, but there was a surrender to the enemy, the enemy was almost defeated, for the victory over which the most valiant of the Russians were given their lives, and this enemy was allowed to make the looting of the best and most developed territories, millions were thrown to the mercy of fate - and all under the hypocritical slogans of justice and brotherhood.
                  2. aleksejkabanets
                    aleksejkabanets 15 May 2020 20: 41 New
                    0
                    Quote: Shadow
                    Every nation has economic interests - even in a capitalist system.
                    As for the defeatists' course, it was treacherous and anti-people: a white world was not concluded without annexations and indemnities, but there was a surrender to the enemy, the enemy was almost defeated, for the victory over which the most valiant of the Russians were given their lives, and this enemy was allowed to make the looting of the best and most developed territories, millions were thrown to the mercy of fate - and all under the hypocritical slogans of justice and brotherhood.

                    You carry nonsense, read the primary sources. What kind of "almost defeated enemy" is there, look at the statistics on how much was produced in Germany and the Republic of Ingushetia (I mean weapons), you may not know, but Russia did not produce bearings of those times, what can I say, it didn’t produce domestic needles.
                  3. Shadow
                    Shadow 15 May 2020 20: 50 New
                    +1
                    The best source is the fact that six months after the official end of the war in the east and Germany’s capture of our western provinces, the war ended with the Germans unconditionally accepting all the conditions of the Entente.
                  4. aleksejkabanets
                    aleksejkabanets 15 May 2020 21: 31 New
                    0
                    Quote: Shadow
                    The best source is the fact that six months after the official end of the war in the east and Germany’s capture of our western provinces, the war ended with the Germans unconditionally accepting all the conditions of the Entente.

                    Maybe you don’t know, but one of the main reasons for the defeat of Germany is the same revolution, coincidence? No, the crisis of the monarchy (in the first approximation).
                  5. Shadow
                    Shadow 15 May 2020 21: 47 New
                    +1
                    Of course, a revolution. The revolution, despite the fact that Germany suddenly even triumphantly ended the campaign in the east and got the resources of the occupied territories, and in the context of the continued struggle by Russia, the enemy’s forces would have exploded even faster. And against this background, consistent capitulation seems to be devoid of even practical meaning.
                  6. aleksejkabanets
                    aleksejkabanets 15 May 2020 23: 32 New
                    0
                    Quote: Shadow
                    Of course, a revolution. The revolution, despite the fact that Germany suddenly even triumphantly ended the campaign in the east and got the resources of the occupied territories, and in the context of the continued struggle by Russia, the enemy’s forces would have exploded even faster. And against this background, consistent capitulation seems to be devoid of even practical meaning.

                    Would you read if Russia had a combat-ready army at that moment when the surplus-appraisal began, which led to the February Revolution, who and how decomposed the army, about supplying the front with the condition of the rear, etc. The Bolsheviks made peace in Brest, because it was then necessary. The fact that the Germans violated it, the way the countries of Antata behaved, is this the fault of the Bolsheviks?
                  7. Shadow
                    Shadow 16 May 2020 00: 02 New
                    0
                    Of course you need it. Vitally necessary. The German government, which was the sole beneficiary of the treaty, but not to those people who were under occupation, not to those on whom the burden of satisfying its conditions fell, and not to those who had a shameful spot.
                    The defeatist position has always been recognized in all societies and cultures, is recognized to this day and will be recognized until the Universe completely falls into the madness of dishonest and criminal, and they don’t favor anywhere and people.
                  8. aleksejkabanets
                    aleksejkabanets 16 May 2020 13: 26 New
                    0
                    Quote: Shadow
                    Of course you need it. Vitally necessary. The German government, which was the sole beneficiary of the treaty, but not to those people who were under occupation, not to those on whom the burden of satisfying its conditions fell, and not to those who had a shameful spot.

                    You apparently did not read the previous post.
                    Quote: Shadow
                    The defeatist position has always been recognized in all societies and cultures, is recognized to this day and will be recognized until the Universe completely falls into the madness of dishonest and criminal, and they don’t favor anywhere and people.

                    Tell me, what about the unwillingness of the people of Ukraine to go to the APU today, is it the same "dishonest and criminal"?
                    In the Brest world, I will try to write an article within two weeks (if there is enough time), with links to the source. To discuss such a large and complex topic in the format of short comments, in my opinion, is stupid.
                  9. Shadow
                    Shadow 16 May 2020 13: 54 New
                    +1
                    Tell me, what about the unwillingness of the people of Ukraine to go to the APU today, is it the same "dishonest and criminal"?

                    If they do not consider themselves Ukrainians, then it is just criminal and dishonorable to go to serve Ukraine. And who all these years raised a tail on his head, and having received a summons, sharply changed his shoes, he is much worse than the one who went to fight voluntarily.
                    We’ll wait for the article: the topic really deserves something more than the discussion in the comments section of the news about installing Kolchak’s bust. hi
  • Shadow
    Shadow 15 May 2020 15: 34 New
    0
    So this is the work of bitards, regular AIBs lol , these are not fascists, but a much more peculiar people.
  • tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 15 May 2020 18: 09 New
    +3
    Quote: Diver-SP
    Do you think this is the people of Bashkiria?

    And the people of Bashkiria probably do not know who erected a monument to Kolchak. But the ears here stick out unambiguously, like the Yeltsin Center.
  • purple
    purple 15 May 2020 13: 55 New
    +5
    Well, does the monument to Salavat Yulaev not bother you at all?
    1. polar fox
      polar fox 15 May 2020 14: 08 New
      +3
      Quote: purple
      Well, the monument to Salavat Yulaev does not bother you at all

      and what was he for whites? or beat off their land from the invaders? what's wrong?
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 15 May 2020 14: 35 New
        +5
        Quote: polar fox
        Quote: purple
        Well, the monument to Salavat Yulaev does not bother you at all

        and what was he for whites? or beat off their land from the invaders? what's wrong?

        Considering that “Pugachevsky Colonel Beloborodov and Salavat Yulaev burned churches in my native town of Lower Sergi and“ planted a goat ”in the blast furnace! That - confuses - however !!!
        However, the white-clerks and gentlemen, the white officers, similarly fired from three-inch churches and destroyed blast furnaces !!! It is annoying however !!! True, again, the last of Seryogs were knocked out by the Krasnoufim Bashkirs and Tatars !!! Descendants of Salavat Yulaev.
        In this vein, the devil will figure out how to relate to rebels, leaders and heroes of the Civil War !!!
        Perhaps balanced, because "there is no great grief when a brother goes to his brother, and his son to his father" !!!
        Krasnov is a traitor
        Skin is a traitor.
        Kolchak - he washed the Urals and Siberia with blood, but at the same time participated in the defense of Port Arthur, northern expeditions and in the First World War!
        Seriously, I don’t know a solution that can bring us all together! A century later, the country is divided into white and red, in fact it is a terrible strain that can only be cured by time !!!
        1. Gennady Korsunov
          Gennady Korsunov 15 May 2020 14: 44 New
          10
          The country is not divided into white and red. The country is divided into rich and poor. Who do you know for whom ..
          1. tihonmarine
            tihonmarine 15 May 2020 18: 17 New
            +2
            Quote: Gennady Korsunov
            The country is divided into rich and poor.

            And I think the country is divided into those who are for their country, and those who are for a foreign country.
            1. New
              New Year day 15 May 2020 19: 04 New
              +2
              Quote: tihonmarine
              And I think the country is divided into those who are for their country, and those who are for a foreign country.

              I think that those who for the country do not have cottages and cordon bills
              1. tihonmarine
                tihonmarine 15 May 2020 21: 04 New
                +2
                Quote: Silvestr
                I think that those who for the country do not have cottages and cordon bills

                Well, I also have a summer residence, but I don’t have any money for the cordon. But I'm just a pauper compared to them, that my cottage is 80 squares and 10 acres, where I plant a garden and live on it.
                1. New
                  New Year day 15 May 2020 21: 51 New
                  +1
                  Quote: tihonmarine
                  my cottage is 80 squares and 10 hundred parts

                  Well, can this be compared with elite houses? Sorry of course!
                  1. tihonmarine
                    tihonmarine 16 May 2020 10: 13 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Silvestr
                    Well, can this be compared with elite houses? Sorry of course!
                    Yes, I can’t even call a shack, rather, "Uncle Tom's hut" in comparison with Millergoom a copy of the Spanish royal palace.


                    People live beautifully in Russia, not like in the Baltic states, they can.
                    1. New
                      New Year day 16 May 2020 12: 55 New
                      +3
                      Quote: tihonmarine
                      People live beautifully in Russia,

                      but not all. you understand this while driving along Rublevka. The main thing is when there is enough
                    2. tihonmarine
                      tihonmarine 16 May 2020 13: 33 New
                      0
                      Quote: Silvestr
                      you understand it, driving along Rublevka.

                      About 25 years he was not in Tuchkovo, where there was an airplane repair plant, he arrived and was surprised.
            2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 16 May 2020 09: 10 New
              +3
              Quote: Silvestr
              Quote: tihonmarine
              And I think the country is divided into those who are for their country, and those who are for a foreign country.

              I think that those who for the country do not have cottages and cordon bills

              Dear Sylvester, I have a cottage, a car, an apartment! The truth is "okromya" salary do not have. He held the dollar in his hands, once a bill in 20 green! And that’s all! I lie one more time a friend brought a 100 dollar from Liberia as a gift. The child is still lying somewhere.
              And now what does this have to do with the homeland!
              I have one fatherland and my well-being in it, I have something to protect and what to fight for, except for a summer residence, a car apartment - family, memory and much more !!!
              1. New
                New Year day 16 May 2020 12: 58 New
                +4
                Vladislav!
                hi
                Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
                family, memory and much more !!!

                perhaps this is the most important thing. I’m looking at the running granddaughter and I understand for whom I live, who will continue the clan
                Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
                I have a cottage, a car, an apartment!

                the same thing, but with age you understand that these are living conditions and not the most important thing. Although life is very problematic without it
      2. aleksejkabanets
        aleksejkabanets 15 May 2020 14: 56 New
        +3
        Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Considering that “Pugachevsky Colonel Beloborodov and Salavat Yulaev burned churches in my native town of Lower Sergi and“ planted a goat ”in the blast furnace! That - confuses - however !!!

        There, among other things, there was a time of church schism, there were things much worse on both sides.
      3. New
        New Year day 15 May 2020 15: 21 New
        +4
        Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
        which can only heal time !!!

        100 years have passed since the civil war, and passions, as you see, do not subside
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 15 May 2020 18: 20 New
          +3
          Quote: Silvestr
          100 years have passed since the civil war, and passions, as you see, do not subside

          Well, how can passions subside when the Heroes of their country (from 1917 to 1991) are not erected monuments, but those who fought against this country are erected monuments.
          1. New
            New Year day 15 May 2020 18: 56 New
            +2
            Quote: tihonmarine
            Well, how can passions subside when the Heroes of their country (from 1917 to 1991) are not erected monuments, but those who fought against this country are erected monuments.

            Last night in YouTube I came across a very interesting video, in which it was about tsarism honoring the memory of the heroes of 1812. Surprise, but the same story. After 50-70 years, tsarism erected monuments to the French!
            Found
            1. tihonmarine
              tihonmarine 15 May 2020 20: 27 New
              +1
              Quote: Silvestr
              it dealt with the tsarist celebration of the memory of the heroes of 1812. Surprise, but the same story.
              And I'm not surprised, here is a monument in honor of the fallen soldiers of Napoleon’s army, built in 1997 with the participation of the director of the Center for Napoleonic Studies, Professor Fernand Bokur.

              The monument was created, brought and put on the field by the French with the consent of the Russian ...
              But this is a monument to General Monument Borodino ....General Nevelsky did not take prisoners, since he believed that no one had invited the French to Russia[B] [/ b]

              And there were such

              Glory to our conquerors, death.
      4. Was mammoth
        Was mammoth 16 May 2020 07: 45 New
        +1
        Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Seriously, I don’t know a solution that can bring us all together!

        And how can you reconcile good and evil, honor and betrayal, ...?
        Is it not a provocation to erect a monument to such a person in our time?
  • aleksejkabanets
    aleksejkabanets 15 May 2020 14: 53 New
    +3
    Quote: purple
    Well, does the monument to Salavat Yulaev not bother you at all?

    And today the monument to Stepan Razin does not bother me at all.
  • Cyril G ...
    Cyril G ... 15 May 2020 14: 01 New
    12
    A promising brave lieutenant, a good staff officer, a bad admiral, and the crown of the failed supreme ruler, the punisher betrayed his people.
    A worthy life path however.
    1. novel66
      novel66 15 May 2020 14: 06 New
      +8
      if you read his biography, it’s not such a good lieutenant, they write, he was burdened with service, he even wanted to go to the Boer War (though he didn’t go) .. and there was too much in his biography “suddenly”
      1. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 15 May 2020 14: 27 New
        +4
        First of all, about Port Arthur, I showed courage in battles, personal. And in A about the burden of service, so this can probably be said about 70 percent of the officers of the RIF. Well, you probably know the principles of the formation of the officer corps of the fleet.
        Are there any comments on the rest of the points?
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 15 May 2020 18: 35 New
          +2
          Quote: Cyril G ...
          I primarily about Port Arthur, showed courage in battles, l

          And what kind of courage? That from April to October 1904, being the destroyer commander, like all other destroyers, he was minesweeping. How did he distinguish himself from others by his heroism?
      2. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 15 May 2020 21: 13 New
        0
        Quote: novel xnumx
        ..and there was too much in his biography “suddenly”

        ... And suddenly England and the USA, and the "Supreme Ruler" sweats. And is our word "supreme ruler" ?? And arming the river, and the recognition and approval of the West. Something so necessary, and that it is still "approved" and "kindly" by the West and, of course, by Russian leaders. And how many diberambs, and how many books (waste paper), already sick.
    2. svp67
      svp67 15 May 2020 14: 26 New
      0
      Quote: Cyril G ...
      the punisher betrayed his people.

      But can this point be developed ... What do you mean?
      1. reservist
        reservist 15 May 2020 14: 35 New
        +6
        Quote: svp67
        And can this point be developed ...

        take an interest in hereditary Siberians ... those whose ancestors lived under Kolchak ...
        It was necessary to somehow manage, with the gold reserves of the Russian Empire on hand and the absence of landowners in Siberia from the word "in general", to get a partisan movement in the rear of his army ...
        1. svp67
          svp67 15 May 2020 14: 58 New
          +2
          Quote: reservist
          It was necessary to somehow manage, with the gold reserves of the Russian Empire on hand and the absence of landowners in Siberia from the word "in general", to get a partisan movement in the rear of his army ...

          Yes, at that time the “reds” outplayed it, first of all with well-posed propaganda, but you would also ask the hereditary Siberians how much more, the already “white” partisan movement was operating in the rear of the “reds” when it turned out that their words were strong disagree with the deed, and most importantly with what methods the "red" suppressed this movement ...
          1. reservist
            reservist 15 May 2020 15: 25 New
            0
            in the “white” there were many who fought in the Kolchak army and did not want to leave for Manchuria ...
            were white's methods better?
            1. svp67
              svp67 15 May 2020 15: 42 New
              +1
              Quote: reservist
              were white's methods better?

              I’m not trying to prove it, it’s you trying to prove that the “red” methods of suppressing internal resistance were better
              1. reservist
                reservist 15 May 2020 16: 01 New
                +1
                Quote: svp67
                Are you trying to prove that the red methods ...

                where and when ? wassat
                nothing that instead of the topic “how, if you have a gold reserve of RI to get a partisan movement behind your lines”, did you turn to the topic of “collectivization in Siberia”?
    3. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 15 May 2020 18: 21 New
      0
      Quote: Cyril G ...
      A worthy life path however.

      You can’t argue with you, I agree.
  • aleksejkabanets
    aleksejkabanets 15 May 2020 14: 07 New
    +1
    Quote: Leader of the Redskins
    Well, now, not to Krasnov, so Kolchak ...

    Do not worry, they will deliver the same red.
  • FIR FIR
    FIR FIR 15 May 2020 16: 00 New
    +5
    Kolchak drowned the Urals and Siberia in the blood of Russian people, managed to force the free, in general, not poor Siberian peasantry, to go over to the Reds. Sold with the giblets of England and the United States. Collaborated with the intelligence of France and Japan.
    And a monument to him? ...
    “In May 1919, Kolchak issued an order that began with the words that one should not forget about the rule of law, but ended with the fact that the captured Red Army soldiers, if they served voluntarily, can be shot on the spot. And how to determine this? that many used the order. "
  • Basil50
    Basil50 15 May 2020 16: 37 New
    +2
    the leader
    For some reason, the current idiots reward frank traitors with unthinkable virtues, almost prosperity.
    When I read about how the Negroes of the USA were proud of their * special * attitude from the Mas, who personally ripped it off himself, he didn’t really believe in such a thing.
    In today's RUSSIA, a generation has grown that does not believe in the fact that only one hundred and fifty years ago, their great-grandfathers-great-grandmothers were TRADING as a commodity. They don’t believe that just a hundred years ago * the knights of the white movement * their great-grandmothers of their great-grandfathers hung up and shot just because they considered themselves entitled to execute * the vile estate * the rest were mercifully smashed without exception. The rape of women was considered so commonplace that they did not pay attention to it.
    The slave trade and the flogged backsides of the ancestors are successfully forgotten, worship of the nobility is cultivated, which, even if it was flogged, the master himself deigned to be angry, and even if he himself, he personally torn it out as if he had awarded the order. Not everyone, well, they say so, sir.
  • Shelest2000
    Shelest2000 15 May 2020 18: 20 New
    +2
    This power has its own heroes. T.ch. not surprising...
  • iouris
    iouris 16 May 2020 11: 40 New
    0
    The point is clear: Kolchak has Turkic roots, and even Turkish ones.
    Interestingly, how is the memory of the first ambassador of the USSR to Saudi Arabia Karim Khakimov in Ufa immortalized? By the way, he was repressed, which was one of the reasons for further complications between the KSA and the USSR (Russia).
  • Voltsky
    Voltsky 15 May 2020 13: 49 New
    12
    Well, this character was not so fiercely fussed at the time, looting and other miracles of the civilized world were not alien to him.
    1. ioan-e
      ioan-e 15 May 2020 13: 52 New
      12
      Quote: Voletsky
      Well, this character was not so fiercely fussed at the time, looting and other miracles of the civilized world were not alien to him.

      Not for nothing after the Civil War, the most evil males were called Kolchak!
      1. svp67
        svp67 15 May 2020 14: 04 New
        +2
        Quote: ioan-e
        Not for nothing after the Civil War, the most evil males were called Kolchak!

        Surname Gaidar, the same long scared children, so what? There are no angels in the Civil War ...
        1. Voltsky
          Voltsky 15 May 2020 14: 07 New
          -5
          maybe there are no angels, but this is equivalent to the monument to Ivan 4 in Novgorod or Kazan.
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 15 May 2020 14: 55 New
            +1
            Quote: Voletsky
            maybe there are no angels, but this is equivalent to the monument to Ivan 4 in Novgorod or Kazan.

            In fact, you are right!
            In Yekaterinburg, the fashion of "design solutions for shopping and entertainment centers" also stirred up painting and sculpture! Where they put the three musketeers, where the Beatles, where the shuttles !!!
            So I have a vague doubt that the SEC in Sterlitamak bears the proud name “Admiral”!
            1. svp67
              svp67 15 May 2020 15: 20 New
              +1
              Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
              We have in Yekaterinburg

              In Yekaterinburg, we have a memorial plaque on Demidov’s house dedicated to Kolchak
              Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
              So I have a vague doubt that the SEC in Sterlitamak bears the proud name “Admiral”!

              And the presence of LCD "Admiral" in Yekaterinburg does not cause such a doubt?
            2. Voltsky
              Voltsky 15 May 2020 16: 38 New
              -1
              well, at least he is not a traitor, he did not join the ranks of a foreign army; yes there was a ghoul, but there were many of them on both sides.
        2. ioan-e
          ioan-e 15 May 2020 14: 17 New
          13
          Quote: svp67
          Quote: ioan-e
          Not for nothing after the Civil War, the most evil males were called Kolchak!

          Surname Gaidar, the same long scared children, so what? There are no angels in the Civil War ...

          I’ll tell you a secret, I still scare my children with the surname Gaidar, not just Arkady, but Yegor!
          1. svp67
            svp67 15 May 2020 14: 20 New
            +1
            Quote: ioan-e
            I’ll tell you a secret, I still scare my children with the surname Gaidar, not just Arkady, but Yegor!

            Every time and people have their own "antiheroes"
        3. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 15 May 2020 14: 28 New
          0
          Quote: svp67
          Surname Gaidar, the same long scared children and that

          This is when it happened ?!
          1. svp67
            svp67 15 May 2020 15: 04 New
            +6
            Quote: Vladimir_2U
            This is when it happened ?!

            In 1922 in Khakassia, where he is a 17-year-old commander of the regiment of the CHON,

            so “naguodyl” that even the “red" decided to bring him to court, he was saved by the fact that he was declared mentally ill and sent for treatment
            1. Vladimir_2U
              Vladimir_2U 15 May 2020 15: 28 New
              +2
              Indeed, confessed surprised, however:
              Arkady Golikov was expelled from the party, removed from office, and he was sent for a psychiatric examination.

              https://aif.ru/culture/28780
              Did the Administration of the Supreme Ruler of Russia do the same to the Kolchak and Semenovites, or did they commit their incomparably greater atrocities with impunity?
              1. svp67
                svp67 15 May 2020 15: 44 New
                +6
                Quote: Vladimir_2U
                Did the Administration of the Supreme Ruler of Russia do the same to the Kolchak and Semenovites, or did they commit their incomparably greater atrocities with impunity?

                Civil war ... there are no "white and fluffy"
                1. Vladimir_2U
                  Vladimir_2U 15 May 2020 15: 45 New
                  +2
                  Quote: svp67
                  Civil war ... there are no "white and fluffy"

                  Yes, yes. (((
        4. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 15 May 2020 18: 38 New
          +2
          Quote: svp67
          There are no angels in the Civil War ...

          The most terrible wars are the "civil" ones.
    2. iouris
      iouris 17 May 2020 13: 06 New
      -1
      Quote: Voletsky
      this character was not so weak in his time, looting and other miracles

      Really personally? Kolchak was in charge of a completely democratic regime, he was not going to restore the tsarist regime, he fought for the ideals that won only in 1991 "after decades of bloody dictatorship of the CPSU." And they are still developing in the "Russia of Democratic Choice", which successfully "grows into Western democracy."
      1. Voltsky
        Voltsky 17 May 2020 13: 45 New
        +1
        Quote: iouris
        Really personally? Kolchak led a completely democratic regime


        you do not write nonsense; Dzhugashvili, too, if anything, was not personally immoral after taking office; but did he know what was going on ?! definitely knew.
        And according to your theory, Kolchak was stupid and blind ?! Well, your business can be considered as such. I do not think so, and it was not in vain that they could not rehabilitate him.
  • hhhhhhh
    hhhhhhh 15 May 2020 13: 50 New
    +6
    They didn’t execute him, but carried out the sentence.
  • hhhhhhh
    hhhhhhh 15 May 2020 13: 51 New
    +2
    Hitler can be honored as an artist, and Goering as a hero of the First World War
  • Barmaleyka
    Barmaleyka 15 May 2020 13: 52 New
    11
    He believes that if it were not for the Civil War, he would be "honored no less than Konstantin Tsiolkovsky or Dmitry Mendeleev." After all, Kolchak was an outstanding scientist and polar explorer.
    the question was not who he was but who he became, the Vlasov is the same order bearer and favorite of the Supreme Commander, WAS
  • apro
    apro 15 May 2020 13: 54 New
    11
    Yes, a new reality is gradually capturing the vastness of the territory of Russia ... abandonment of the Soviet past for the sake of the capitalist last year ...
    New Russia ... new heroes.
    To this went and came to this.
    1. CSKA
      CSKA 15 May 2020 14: 28 New
      0
      Quote: apro
      rejection of the Soviet past

      And who refuses the Soviet past?
      1. apro
        apro 15 May 2020 14: 42 New
        +4
        Quote: CSKA
        And who refuses the Soviet past?

        And you do not know? Who has profits from the public property?
        1. CSKA
          CSKA 21 May 2020 16: 23 New
          -1
          Quote: apro
          who makes a profit with public property?

          ))))) And who? Have you heard somewhere that Deripaska or Timchenko said that we do not recognize the Soviet past? And what is the concept of “abandonment of the Soviet past”? Like I didn’t live in the USSR or what?
          And what public property are you talking about here?
          1. apro
            apro 22 May 2020 00: 46 New
            0
            Quote: CSKA
            Have you heard somewhere that Deripaska or Timchenko said that we do not recognize the Soviet past?

            And what should they recognize? That these citizens receive unjust income from public property? Which they simply stole .. and underneath this they bring the ideological base in view of the inefficiency. Crime of the USSR.
            Quote: CSKA
            And what is the concept of "rejection of the Soviet past"?

            This is a rejection of a nation-wide state. From the primacy of the public over the personal. From an economy based on a planned system. Excluding profit on your pocket. When the factories. The subsoil belongs to everyone and no one in particular.
            1. CSKA
              CSKA 22 May 2020 12: 54 New
              0
              Quote: apro
              that these citizens receive not fair income from public property?

              This property has never been popular, and why did you get the idea that the income is not fair? You are not very clear. Not fair income - shouldn't that belong to them?
              Quote: apro
              This is a rejection of a nation-wide state.

              What a rant.
              Quote: apro
              from the primacy of the public over the personal. from an economy based on a planned system. excluding profit on your pocket. when the factories. the subsoil belongs to everyone and no one in particular.

              You seem to have created an image of such a state where milk rivers and jelly banks flow straight. But in fact, it was far from all wrong. All plants, mineral resources and everything else belonged to only one - the state and no one else. The very principle of socialism was violated in this. But the fact is that you and the same socialist communists do not even delve into the teachings of your beloved Marx.
              The Soviet system did not go beyond the boundaries of capitalism as a mode of production, and in essence was state monopoly capitalism (most of the means of production belong to one monopoly owner - the state).
              The system built in the USSR had nothing to do with the Marxist understanding of socialism, since under it there was neither the self-government of the working people, nor the "withering away" of the state, nor public (and not state) ownership of the means of production; alienation, which, according to Marx, must be overcome under socialism.
              The party elite was formed, receiving from the state all the best. There was still not a small layer of people with high earnings, but these were either corrupt trade workers or hard workers of the north and heavy industries. The vast majority of the people lived on small salaries, in communal apartments or barracks, unable to afford to buy a car or an apartment. Relatively not a bad period was under Brezhnev, while Kosygin had to carry out reforms, but he was not allowed to carry them out normally.
              1. apro
                apro 22 May 2020 13: 00 New
                0
                Mr. CSKA, did you live in the USSR? Or did you get information from the voice of America?
                Quote: CSKA

                This property has never been public.

                Whose blood bloody Jewish Bolsheviks were she?
                The state controlled public property in the interests of all citizens.
                1. CSKA
                  CSKA 22 May 2020 16: 07 New
                  0
                  Quote: apro
                  Mr. CSKA, did you live in the USSR? Or did you get information from the voice of America?

                  ))))) I lived a little, but for your information you need to draw from the books of the party of the times of the USSR and the radio voices of americosia from many sources of the party.
                  In fact, you have nothing to answer. In the USSR there was both good and bad, but all property was certainly not public. If the property of the people, then the people can control it, and everything was controlled by the state, and the state is its party elite. Not even everyone in the party could at least have something to influence in governing the state, much less without the party. Therefore, all words about public property are all empty words. You could not decide anything, you decided everything from the top. And of course, you smiled about the interests of citizens. And did they ask the citizens? And if one of the citizens or hundreds of thousands did not want the construction of BAM or a nuclear power plant in the Arctic, for example, then what was it in their interests?
  • Tima62
    Tima62 15 May 2020 13: 58 New
    +6
    And the country with which Kolchak later fought, according to Tagir Ibragimov, no longer exists.

    Like the one for which he fought.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 15 May 2020 14: 58 New
      +3
      Quote: Tima62
      And the country with which Kolchak later fought, according to Tagir Ibragimov, no longer exists.

      Like the one for which he fought.

      Angry but fair words!
      From myself, we will supplement the heirs of both Russia! Soviet Russia and the Russian Empire !!!
      And where to go for example to me? The descendant is white later than the red Cossack, the red workers and the ginger, the great-grandson of the mayor, the great-grandson of the repressed fist and NEPOVets, as well as the chairman of the village council, the grandson of the NKV Deshnik and the criminal (the grandfather of his youth dug Belomorkanal), the son of the police and the cop himself, and now the colonel of the internal service of the hated all the police ?????
      1. New
        New Year day 15 May 2020 15: 30 New
        +1
        Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
        The descendant is white later than the red Cossack, the red workers and the ginger, the great-grandson of the mayor, the great-grandson of the repressed fist and NEPOVets, as well as the chairman of the village council, the grandson of the NKV Deshnik and the criminal (the grandfather of his youth dug Belomorkanal), the son of the police and the cop himself, and now the colonel of the internal service of the hated all the police ?????

        Serious pedigree. But you are not the only one in your family who is white, and red, and sitting and not sitting. Alas, that was life.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • regdan
    regdan 15 May 2020 14: 09 New
    0
    Is it that Kolchak who betrayed his people and started a civil war? Well, yes, he’s supposed to put monuments to such traitors.
    1. CSKA
      CSKA 15 May 2020 14: 29 New
      +3
      Quote: regdan
      Is it that Kolchak who betrayed his people and started a civil war?

      Read the story. Her not Kolchak began.
      1. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 16 May 2020 10: 05 New
        +1
        The civilian was set on fire because of a mound (a rebellion of the Czech corps), however, such characters as Kornilov, Krasnov and others actively participated in this ....
        1. CSKA
          CSKA 18 May 2020 16: 00 New
          +1
          Quote: Cyril G ...
          The civilian was set on fire because of a mound (a rebellion of the Czech corps), however, such characters as Kornilov, Krasnov and others actively participated in this ....

          Civil began after the 1917 Bolshevik coup. The Czechs rebelled in the summer of 2018.
          1. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 18 May 2020 16: 01 New
            -1
            Will there be evidence? Yes, and the coup was in February if that.
            1. CSKA
              CSKA 20 May 2020 09: 31 New
              +1
              Quote: Cyril G ...
              Will there be evidence?

              Evidence of what? That the Bolsheviks carried out an armed coup in October? This is commonly known. They seized power by force.
              Quote: Cyril G ...
              Yes, and the coup was in February if that.

              You can, in principle, also say so, new to this situation, Nicholas denied, so that the interim government was legal.
              1. Cyril G ...
                Cyril G ... 20 May 2020 10: 47 New
                0
                It was not legal by any side. The abdication was carried out in violation of the procedures. Nicholas did not have the right to renounce for his son. The abdication of Michael is generally a strange story.
                1. CSKA
                  CSKA 21 May 2020 12: 08 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Cyril G ...
                  It was not legal by any side. The abdication was carried out in violation of the procedures. Nicholas did not have the right to renounce for his son. The abdication of Michael is generally a strange story.

                  How legitimate or not the February Revolution was not important. The question is who started the civil war.
                  1. Cyril G ...
                    Cyril G ... 21 May 2020 12: 24 New
                    +1
                    This is a key question if you raised this topic at all.
                    1. CSKA
                      CSKA 21 May 2020 14: 54 New
                      0
                      Quote: Cyril G ...
                      This is a key question if you raised this topic at all.

                      Well, well, under pressure they forced the tsar to abdicate, and then Michael, and there was nothing to be said about Alexei, in those conditions he could not rule.
                      The interim government was still democratic and represented all segments of the population, even monarchists. But the Bolsheviks who made the coup, in principle, like in February the Provisional Government, did not represent all segments of the population and were actually a dictatorship. The reaction to the dictatorship of one party by force that took power was the creation of an opposing force, on whose side a part of the population became. That is, it was the coup of the Bolsheviks that led to the civil war, and not the February revolution. After it, just the civil war did not start, but after the October war began.
                      1. Cyril G ...
                        Cyril G ... 21 May 2020 15: 06 New
                        0
                        Civil war in one form or another was inevitable.
                      2. CSKA
                        CSKA 21 May 2020 16: 17 New
                        0
                        Quote: Cyril G ...
                        Civil war in one form or another was inevitable.

                        Perhaps given that the Provisional Government was weak and sooner or later, someone would want to take power by force.
                    2. strannik1985
                      strannik1985 21 May 2020 15: 08 New
                      +1
                      Well, under pressure they forced the king

                      I.e. a coup.
                      That is precisely the revolution of the Bolsheviks

                      Seriously? Army orders, amnesty in prisons, liquidation of the police department, freedom of speech, press, assembly, strikes, dismissal of local authorities, collapse of the judicial system - all this did not lead to a civil war? wink
                    3. CSKA
                      CSKA 21 May 2020 16: 20 New
                      0
                      Quote: strannik1985
                      I.e. a coup.

                      And I wrote somewhere that no?
                      Quote: strannik1985
                      Seriously? Army orders, amnesty in prisons, liquidation of the police department, freedom of speech, press, assembly, strikes, dismissal of local authorities, collapse of the judicial system - all this did not lead to a civil war?

                      All this led to the weakness of the Provisional Government during the war, but after the Bolshevik coup and their dictatorship, it led to a civil war.
                    4. strannik1985
                      strannik1985 21 May 2020 18: 58 New
                      0
                      And I wrote somewhere that no?

                      Those. events equal in their illegality, which are better or worse to look at through a prism are a bit strange, don't you find?
                      All this led to weakness.

                      All this led to war - separatists on the outskirts (very conditional, from St. Petersburg to Helsinki 299 km in a straight line), mass desertion from the front, black redistribution in the countryside, riots, for example, Kronshtadtsky, in March 1917. What can I say about struggle with Kornilov VP had to ask for help from his main enemy?
                    5. CSKA
                      CSKA 22 May 2020 12: 38 New
                      0
                      Quote: strannik1985
                      Those. events equal in their illegality, which are better or worse to look at through a prism are a bit strange, don't you find?

                      We do not compare events, we look at the consequences and what they led to. If, after the February Revolution, a year or two had passed, the Bolsheviks would have come to power, this is one thing, but they would have taken it by force, and therefore it was the October Revolution that led to the war.
                      Quote: strannik1985
                      All this led to war - separatists on the outskirts (very conditional, from St. Petersburg to Helsinki 299 km in a straight line), mass desertion from the front, black redistribution in the countryside, riots, for example, Kronshtadtsky, in March 1917.

                      If the EP were strong and at least partly unified, then all issues could be resolved.
                      Quote: strannik1985
                      What can I say if, in order to fight the Kornilov VP, I had to ask for help from my main enemy?

                      Do you mean the Bolsheviks? So at that time they were not enemies of the VP.
                    6. strannik1985
                      strannik1985 22 May 2020 12: 51 New
                      0
                      We do not compare events

                      What are the choices? What constituent assembly? To hold them, someone must ensure order. Who will provide it if, in response to the rebellion in direct visibility from the capital, the naval minister can only show cookies, and the VP does not have the strength to stop one corps, there is no one to defend the capital.
                      If EP would be strong

                      Exactly, if. In February, the air forces are much stronger than in October, due to the actions of the air forces themselves.
                      Do you mean the Bolsheviks?

                      Parallel center of power, no need to be a genius to predict the future.
                    7. CSKA
                      CSKA 22 May 2020 13: 31 New
                      0
                      Quote: strannik1985
                      What are the choices? What constituent assembly? To hold them, someone must ensure order. Who will provide it if, in response to the rebellion in direct visibility from the capital, the naval minister can only show cookies, and the VP does not have the strength to stop one corps, there is no one to defend the capital.

                      Well, the fact of the matter is that due to the weakness of the government, nothing was done normally from the very beginning. You take later the period when it was already weak. Since February, in those conditions, it was necessary to change something in a coordinated way, and not to engage in feuds. But that is not the point. Talk about who started the civil war. And an article about the same. Accused of being Kolchak.
                      You and I can take long steps who and how then made mistakes, but the fact remains that the war began after the October Revolution, and not after the February Revolution, and it began because the Bolsheviks did not have the support of the entire population, but wanted to impose their politics to all and impose by force. The result was that they began to oppose part of the population with different views, whether it be monarchists, anarchists, republicans or nationalists.
                    8. strannik1985
                      strannik1985 22 May 2020 13: 47 New
                      0
                      that the Bolsheviks did not have the support of the entire population, but wanted to impose their policies on everyone and force them.

                      So this is the norm, not a single ruling party has the support of the entire population, it’s just that the majority are forced to act within the framework of the law, they will imprison them. And at that moment there was no law as such, due to the actions of the Provisional Government. Any power claiming to be the leader in such conditions will be repulsed, simply because there is no opposition from the institutions of power, they themselves are not there, destroyed.
                      Yes, the Great Patriotic War began after the October Revolution, but its causes were in the February Revolution.
  • New
    New Year day 15 May 2020 15: 31 New
    0
    Quote: regdan
    This is the Kolchak who betrayed his people

    tell how he betrayed his people ...
    1. NordUral
      NordUral 15 May 2020 16: 39 New
      +2
      And like this:
      As a result of becoming a double Anglo-American agent, Kolchak immediately after the October Revolution of 1917 turned to the English envoy in Japan K. Green with a request to the government of His Majesty the King of England George V to accept him to the service! So, after all, he wrote in his petition: “... I completely put myself at the disposal of His government ...”

      “His government” means the government of His Majesty the English King George V! On December 30, 1917, the British government officially granted Kolchak’s request. From that moment, Kolchak had already officially switched to the side of the enemy, dressed in the toga of an ally. Why the enemy ?! Yes, because at that time only the laziest of the agents of England, the United States and the Entente as a whole could not know that, firstly, on November 15 (28), 1917, the Supreme Council of the Entente adopted an official decision on intervention in Russia. Secondly, already on December 10 (23), 1917, the leaders of the Entente's European core - England and France - signed a convention on the division of Russia into spheres of influence! And almost a year later, when the German Empire (and the Austro-Hungarian Empire) was sent to the landfill of History in November 1918, and Kolchak was finally thrown back to Russia, under the patronage of the United States, the Anglo-French allies confirmed that on November 13, 1918 the convention itself or, in the purely legal language, prolonged its effect. And knowing all this and already being a double Anglo-American agent, Kolchak, precisely after the confirmation of this convention under the patronage of the same states, agreed to become allegedly the Supreme Ruler. Therefore, I say that this was also a traitor, officially serving in the service of the enemy! If he simply collaborated (suppose, in the framework of military-technical supplies) with the former allies in the Entente, as many White Guard generals did, this would be one. Even in spite of the fact that they also took upon themselves not too blissful obligations affecting the honor and dignity of Russia. However, they at least de facto acted as something independent, without formally transferring to the service of a foreign state. But Kolchak officially went to the service of Great Britain. And the very admiral Kolchak, who was shot like a mad dog by the Bolsheviks, was not just the self-proclaimed Supreme Ruler of Russia, Admiral Kolchak, whom the Bolsheviks fought against, but the official representative of the English king and his government, who was officially in their service, who tried to dominate all of Russia! The British general Knox, who oversaw Kolchak in Siberia, at one time openly admitted that the British were directly responsible for creating the Kolchak government! All this is now well known, including from foreign sources.

      https://newsland.com/user/4296648095/content/oborotnaia-storona-admirala-kolchaka/3886292
  • Radikal
    Radikal 15 May 2020 14: 10 New
    +1
    The author, specify which local entrepreneur T. Ibragimov is talking about, so that there would be no mistake. In Bashkiria there is a well-known character with the same, I can not say that the installation, but nonetheless - the data. Who do you mean? hi
  • Was mammoth
    Was mammoth 15 May 2020 14: 14 New
    +1
    Again, perhaps, in a private area? What is it, we are untouchable !!!
  • The comment was deleted.
  • ZVS
    ZVS 15 May 2020 14: 22 New
    +8
    Why then be outraged that monuments to Bandera and Shukhevych are being erected in Ukraine?
  • bober1982
    bober1982 15 May 2020 14: 23 New
    +6
    This monument was erected so that it would then be smashed. It would be hard to imagine stupid people pushing their foreheads together, which is more stupid than such a monument, like that, from the point of view of common sense.
    1. reservist
      reservist 15 May 2020 14: 40 New
      +5
      and this one, which is in Irkutsk?


      I agree with you.
      1. bober1982
        bober1982 15 May 2020 15: 43 New
        +1
        And this one, too, with all due respect to V.M. Klykov
    2. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 15 May 2020 18: 43 New
      0
      Quote: bober1982
      This monument is erected so that it can then be smashed.

      Where I was born, after 1953 they put a stele with the names of the detachment of the CHONovtsy who went out and disappeared somewhere. After a couple of years they destroyed, rebuilt, and in 60 years they destroyed or demolished, and no longer rebuilt.
      1. bober1982
        bober1982 15 May 2020 18: 50 New
        -1
        This is because the Chonovites were not much different from the Kolchakites.
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 15 May 2020 19: 50 New
          0
          Quote: bober1982
          This is because the Chonovites were not much different from the Kolchakites.

          Yes exactly. These were the sidekick of Yaroslavsky (he distinguished himself in our country in 1921).
          1. bober1982
            bober1982 15 May 2020 19: 59 New
            -2
            Quote: tihonmarine
            These were the sidekick of Yaroslavsky

            A. Golikov (Gaidar), mentioned in the comments, was a psycho, even his Chonov comrades themselves were afraid of him, he shot both strangers and their own.
            1. tihonmarine
              tihonmarine 15 May 2020 21: 18 New
              -2
              Quote: bober1982
              A. Golikov (Gaidar), was crazy, even his Chonov comrades were afraid of him, he shot both strangers and their own.

              We didn’t have others, the canoes didn’t reach. Great-grandfather and grandfather will not lie.
  • zwlad
    zwlad 15 May 2020 14: 24 New
    +6
    There is a systematic rewriting of history, and this monument is a new page in the new history of Russia.
    Soon, the victors in the Second World War will be the arrogant Saxons, the USSR will be exposed as the aggressor who wanted to attack Germany. Well, Germany will be the victim, who had to defend herself against an aggressive USSR, and in order to surely defeat Germany, she had to attack the USSR.
    And unfortunately, all this will happen in our lifetime and our great-grandchildren (and possibly grandchildren) will already know another world history.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 15 May 2020 14: 26 New
    +9
    According to Tagir Ibragimov, Kolchak deserves to be immortalized. He believes that if it were not for the Civil War, he would be "honored no less than Konstantin Tsiolkovsky or Dmitry Mendeleev."

    The artist Hitler and the architect Rosenberg fully support Tagir Ibragimov. smile
  • Vladislava_I
    Vladislava_I 15 May 2020 14: 33 New
    -10
    In Russia, the civil war did not abate, its echoes are heard in 21 years. There are no longer red, not white and there is no state built by the red! It existed by historical standards, negligible. And I was always impressed by the whites, so the soul lies with them. Yes, I'm a fan of the Russian Empire. I am sure that it could be reformed in the image of Great Britain. She fluttered as needed. But a weak king, an unnecessary war did their job. Collective farmers came to power without education and imagined themselves rulers. There are always tears in his eyes from the sold-out Hermitage, ruined estates, the destruction of the family business.
    The results are even worse. The bloody war, the departure of millions of nobles, scientists, writers. Sikorsky gave the US development, and yet he could leave all the knowledge in Russia. But he was a monarchist just like me by the way.
    1. north 2
      north 2 15 May 2020 15: 51 New
      -1
      again, a weak Tsar, a weak Tsar ... But in the Tsar’s retinue, in ministries and departments, in governor’s chairs, there was an old junk with terrible bureaucratic tumors. The narcissism of this old junk spread in the upper echelons of the command of the army and navy. The elite, in any case, even at home in Russia, tried not to speak Russian. And you are all - the Tsar is to blame, the Tsar is to blame ... Yes, he is to blame, but the elite of that then Nikolaev Empire is to blame. I am also a fan of the Russian Empire. And the past Russian Empire and the future Russian Empire, which is now being reborn in such torment. Therefore, we must realize and understand why, under Nicholas II, this Empire was temporarily destroyed ...
    2. Alt 22
      Alt 22 16 May 2020 10: 30 New
      +5
      "Fluttering" - I personally think that smart, educated, HISTORY-HELPING people cannot be fans of white scum.
      You just read about the terrifying conditions in which people lived in 1917. The people rebelled for a reason, the people rebelled not because of the Bolsheviks, but because of the 11-hour working day, lack of workers' rights, average life expectancy of 30 years, the highest infant mortality rate and many other “achievements” of the “fluttering” tsarist regime.
      Personally, I am aware of the numerous mistakes of the Bolsheviks. My ancestors fled from dispossession in Ukraine. But I am more worried about the whole Russian people - and I understand well that without the Bolsheviks, without Stalin's industrialization, RI would have remained an agrarian country with backward industry, and would have collapsed under the blows of the Nazis - with all the sad consequences for the Russian people. The interests of the PEOPLE are higher than insults to the crimes of the regime, if, according to the results of his reign, the Russians were able to survive. Survive, and double its number, together with other peoples of the USSR to build a powerful country, which the current regime is consistently destroying .... I wish you to understand this.
  • Vasyan1971
    Vasyan1971 15 May 2020 14: 39 New
    +3
    He believes that if it were not for the Civil War, he would be "honored no less than Konstantin Tsiolkovsky or Dmitry Mendeleev."

    Nice! The only trouble is that with his “exploits”, this polar explorer trampled his entire previous life in the mud. If not for World War I, Hitler would have remained a mediocre artist.
    And if Mr. Ibragimov is already so fanatical with Kolchak, he would put his idol in his garden, and he would drag himself there at his pleasure. And Kolchak’s memory has "immortalized" enough already.
  • DPN
    DPN 15 May 2020 14: 40 New
    +1
    In 1991, people were deceived or people were afraid of who they liked, while they began to buy the titles of princes, counts and others, now they are returning to historical times. That is, White turned out to be friendlier and richer and of course a lot of money rules the ball, their time has returned.
    1. Shadow
      Shadow 15 May 2020 15: 58 New
      0
      Excuses. It’s easy to say “I was deceived” instead of “I sold out.” After all, it was not out of pure moral aspiration that people invested in MMM, enthusiastically listened to trams that promised everyone a piece of the looted economy and advocated for a system that assumes a constant and comprehensive confrontation of individuals for the right to sip slop from the trough.
  • Free wind
    Free wind 15 May 2020 14: 46 New
    0
    Here is the news, so the news, to blame someone else, but eat yours in a bite. request
  • Lord of the Sith
    Lord of the Sith 15 May 2020 14: 48 New
    12
    What kind of contra deletes my comments? Who covers the white executioner and the ghoul?
    First Kolchak, then the fascist henchmen will put busts?
  • Old partisan
    Old partisan 15 May 2020 14: 54 New
    +6
    But there are no two opinions. At least in Siberia. Old people remembered every parish of Kolchak residents in the villages of the hamlet. And certainly it was not for nothing that he was shot and drowned.
    But in general, this is the policy of the highest echelon of the country. To erect monuments commemorative plaques to all freaks.
  • Vladislava_I
    Vladislava_I 15 May 2020 14: 57 New
    -4
    The Reds flutter in the comments, it seems they forgot that since the year 91 their country has collapsed to the applause of the residents themselves.
  • Rusfaner
    Rusfaner 15 May 2020 15: 10 New
    +6
    A bust of Kolchak was installed in Bashkiria (s)

    Your deeds are wonderful, Lord !!!
    Why are you depriving the mind of your children?
  • north 2
    north 2 15 May 2020 15: 25 New
    0
    the story is not what they told, but what it was. And what was recorded in archival affairs and in
    other recorded materials that are stored in archives. There are also cases with witnesses.
    readings supported by photographs and films. And most importantly, it does not write cases and documents for state-historical archives as fantasies or fiction for the readership, and even with the seasoning of propaganda. He writes such cases and documents scrupulously truthfully, and it does not matter what content they end up with - anti-state and or for the state, for the people or against the people. These archival materials reflect the truth precisely because their reading
    few are allowed even after fifty or more years. So you need to trust only the archives that
    they write about Kolchak. And the royal archives and Soviet archives. And neither liberal propagandists nor communist propagandists need to be trusted. Only in this way can historical figures be known about such figures as Kolchak. Otherwise, the constant distorted history of the state can bring the state to collapse from within. Because self-deception always has disastrous consequences, and not centuries later, in the very short term ..
  • Krasnoyarsk
    Krasnoyarsk 15 May 2020 15: 36 New
    +7
    = According to Tagir Ibragimov, Kolchak deserves to be immortalized. He believes that if it were not for the Civil War, he would be "honored no less than Konstantin Tsiolkovsky or Dmitry Mendeleev." After all, Kolchak was an outstanding scientist and polar explorer. Maps of the Arctic, compiled by the future leader of the White movement, are used in our time. He also made a great contribution to the defense of Port Arthur during the Russo-Japanese War. And the country with which Kolchak later fought, according to Tagir Ibragimov, no longer exists. =
    1. This is just the opinion of some Tagir.
    2. If each “tagir”, having its own opinion, will erect monuments to anyone, at its own expense, then what will we come to? To the monuments of Hitler, Mussolini, Bandera, Mazepa? After all, Russia is big and there will certainly be admirers of these historical characters.
    3. No matter how learned Kolchak was, he tarnished his name with a war with the people, which, in essence, was obliged to serve. Because it was precisely this people who fed, clothed, shoeed and armed them with their labor.
    4. By erecting a monument to Kolchak, he simultaneously erects a monument to the Kiev regime fighting against the rebellious people of Donbass.
    1. Sklendarka
      Sklendarka 15 May 2020 16: 27 New
      +2
      Felix returned to the Lubyanka?
      1. Krasnoyarsk
        Krasnoyarsk 15 May 2020 16: 41 New
        +2
        Quote: Skalendarka
        Felix returned to the Lubyanka?

        We will return power, we will return Felix.
        1. Sklendarka
          Sklendarka 15 May 2020 16: 51 New
          +2
          We have it in its former place, between the Dynamo stadium and the KGB edan ...
          It is ridiculous to say of course, but only the priests could sculpt Gapon ...
      2. RUSS
        RUSS 16 May 2020 16: 56 New
        0
        Quote: Skalendarka
        Felix returned to the Lubyanka?

        The fate of the mosaic with Stalin from the temple of the Ministry of Defense is determined

        A new location of the mosaic with the image of the Soviet leader Joseph Stalin was determined - according to the decision of the Russian Orthodox Church, it will be a museum in the territory of the Patriot complex near Moscow, and not the main temple of the Russian Armed Forces located in this complex, as previously assumed. This was in an interview with RIA Novosti the head of the Expert Council of the Russian Orthodox Church on church art, architecture and restoration Archpriest Leonid Kalinin.

        “We nevertheless decided that the museum is more appropriate than the temple. Why give birth to some kind of confrontation and strife among the people? We must be together, we are citizens of one country and one Orthodox faith, peace and love are most important for us, ”Kalinin said. The reason for this decision about the future fate of the mosaic, according to him, was “outright rejection” and “flames surrounding the image of passion”.
    2. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 16 May 2020 10: 11 New
      +1
      Kolchak deserves to be immortalized.


      I wonder why? Like a great naval commander? So it wasn’t like that.
  • AlexVas44
    AlexVas44 15 May 2020 16: 21 New
    +3
    Quote: svp67
    In any case, Kolchak was for one and indivisible ...

    And he would have ruthlessly smashed ...
    1. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk 15 May 2020 16: 40 New
      +5
      Quote: AlexVas44
      Quote: svp67
      In any case, Kolchak was for one and indivisible ...

      And he would have ruthlessly smashed ...

      But were the Bolsheviks opposed, one and indivisible?
      As life has shown - very much - for.
  • Sklendarka
    Sklendarka 15 May 2020 16: 26 New
    +2
    And these people will forbid me to pick my nose ...
  • NordUral
    NordUral 15 May 2020 16: 31 New
    +3
    After all, nothing is washed, not by washing, so they are dragging along with skating.
  • maxxavto
    maxxavto 15 May 2020 16: 35 New
    0
    Dmitry Puchkov Goblin on YouTube an interesting video about Kolchak
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feGj8U4yh4I
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 16 May 2020 16: 54 New
      -2
      Quote: maxxavto
      Dmitry Puchkov Goblin on YouTube an interesting video about Kolchak
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feGj8U4yh4I

      How long has the former cop Goblin become a historian?
      1. maxxavto
        maxxavto 16 May 2020 20: 00 New
        0
        did you watch
  • Looking for
    Looking for 15 May 2020 16: 38 New
    0
    Kolchak had to put the dead in the loop.
  • user
    user 15 May 2020 17: 56 New
    +4
    [quote] It was created by sculptor Aleksey Dikunov from Voronezh at the expense of local entrepreneur Tagir Ibragimov. [quote]

    They already hung you, hung you and dipped you in a well (the torture well is called), and you put all the monuments.

    Even what to say words are not some expressions.
  • Eun Ying
    Eun Ying 15 May 2020 18: 34 New
    +4
    Kolchak is an agent of Britain, an enemy of Russia (Soviet), it's like putting a monument to fascist Mannerheim
  • faterdom
    faterdom 15 May 2020 18: 47 New
    +4
    I would forbid the installation of monuments to the personalities of the Civil War for 200 years after that. This, in my opinion, is the period when their deeds and they themselves will no longer have mass admirers or opponents, which causes displeasure in society. To intransigence.
    And regardless of the fact that he is a "polar explorer", a "grand master of mine warfare" like Kolchak, or a researcher of Central Asia, like Mannerheim.
    We see how strata recently boiled over in the USA about the personalities of their Civil War - again, almost before the war, and after all, 150 years have passed!
    But the French are no longer seething in the stomach from Marat or Robespierre, but the Paris Commune has fans.
  • Aviator_
    Aviator_ 15 May 2020 19: 42 New
    +5
    After all, Kolchak was an outstanding scientist and polar explorer. Maps of the Arctic, compiled by the future leader of the White movement, are used in our time.

    Nonsense of a local potbelly stove.
  • silberwolf88
    silberwolf88 15 May 2020 20: 06 New
    +5
    ended his days as a traitor to the Motherland (swore allegiance to the British crown) and a killer of the people (some of his black hussars were worth ... a bunch of rapists and murderers) ... the figure is definitely not an example for Russia ... it's time to tie up busts with monuments and boards in his honor ... there is no hero ... there is an opportunist and executioner in the service of the Entente ...
  • 23424636
    23424636 15 May 2020 21: 08 New
    +1
    Bashkir Tatars erect a monument to the Russian leader of the movement, whose slogan "Russia is one indivisible" does not fit into the concept of the current St. Petersburg polishers of the huge loss of the territory of All Russia. that Yeltsin led through the Bialowieza conspiracy. Kolchak, as a reproach to the current Moscow-Russia party, should remain within the borders of 1914.
    1. Arthur 85
      Arthur 85 16 May 2020 17: 24 New
      0
      Uh, this morally “beautiful” person in every respect, had at least one chance to save Russia even within the borders of 1992?
  • Old tanker
    Old tanker 16 May 2020 04: 12 New
    +6
    With this logic, it’s possible to put a monument to Hitler. Not as a ghoul and a tyrant, but as an artist. And even more profitable, you can sign that the monument is not to Hitler, but to Schicklgruber
  • viktor_ui
    viktor_ui 16 May 2020 07: 59 New
    0
    Civil war ... this is the ugliness of those in power, in which NORMAL compatriots become beasts in relation to each other. All wars are made by high-ranking bastards, and people are paying for their imperious mediocrity, greed and stupidity.
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 16 May 2020 10: 14 New
      +2
      The Civil War is the consequence of all the policies pursued by the highest empire of the Empire since the mid-19th century. Since the liberation of the peasants without land, and the land in the mortgage for 49 years, not admitting to education and other.
  • Alt 22
    Alt 22 16 May 2020 10: 05 New
    +2
    Let me remind you that Kolchak, a war criminal, whom even the Russian courts refused to rehabilitate.
    Russia, where are you going ??? Ukraine also began its fall with installations to the monuments to Shukhevych and Bandera ...
  • magdama
    magdama 16 May 2020 11: 35 New
    -3
    Admiral Kolchak is a worthy person whom Russia is proud and will be proud of. And in a civil war there are no right and guilty, Each has its own truth.
    1. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk 16 May 2020 11: 55 New
      0
      Quote: magdama
      Admiral Kolchak is a worthy person whom Russia is proud and will be proud of. And in a civil war there are no right and guilty, Each has its own truth.

      Who gave you the right to speak on behalf of Russia?
  • Pvi1206
    Pvi1206 16 May 2020 15: 55 New
    0
    words cannot be ejected from a song, but from the story - its characters ...
    history, whatever it is, should not be forgotten ...
  • Brigadier
    Brigadier 16 May 2020 16: 06 New
    +2
    "...if not for the Civil War, he would be "honored no less than Konstantin Tsiolkovsky or Dmitry Mendeleev"

    Powerful excuse!
    You can immediately see the "specialist" in "stories" ...

    It seems that now we must wait for the appearance of a heap of monuments to various enemies and traitors of our people only because they will have a powerful excuse - "if... "

    I understand that if it were not for the ill-fated attack on the USSR that ended in the collapse of fascism, would the Austrian artist Adolf Schicklgruber be honored no less than Strauss or Goethe?

    And what will happen now? We need to wait for the installation of a monument to Hitler in Germany?

    FULL IDIOTISM !!!
  • Arthur 85
    Arthur 85 16 May 2020 17: 20 New
    0
    It is strange why monuments to our Heroes are demolished in Europe? It would seem, what does Kolchak have to do with it?
  • Felix Chuykov
    Felix Chuykov 16 May 2020 18: 43 New
    0
    A letter to the workers and peasants

    "Comrades! The Red troops liberated the entire Urals from Kolchak and began the liberation of Siberia. The workers and peasants of the Urals and Siberia enthusiastically welcomed Soviet power, for it sweeps away the landlord and capitalist scum with an iron broom, who tortured the people with extortion, bullying, flogging, and the restoration of tsarist oppression ...
    Here are the main five lessons that all workers and peasants, all working people, must learn ... in order to insure themselves against the repetition of the calamities of Kolchakism.
    First lesson. To protect the power of workers and peasants from robbers, that is, from landowners and capitalists, we need a powerful Red Army. ...
    Second lesson. The Red Army cannot be strong without large state reserves of bread ...
    Third lesson. In order to completely destroy Kolchak and Denikin, it is necessary to observe the strictest revolutionary order, it is necessary to observe the holy laws and regulations of the Soviet government and to monitor their implementation by all. ...
    The fourth lesson. It’s criminal to forget not only that Kolchakism began with trifles, but also that they helped her to be born ... Mensheviks ... and Socialist-Revolutionaries ... It's time to learn how to evaluate political parties according to their affairs, and not according to them . ...
    Fifth lesson. To destroy Kolchak and Kolchak, to prevent them from rising again, all the peasants should not hesitate to make a choice in favor of the workers' state. The peasants are scared ... by the scarecrow of the "dictatorship of one party", the party of the Bolshevik Communists.
    On the example of Kolchak, peasants learned not to be afraid of a scarecrow.
    Either the dictatorship (i.e. iron power) of the landowners and capitalists, or the dictatorship of the working class.
    There is no middle ground. Dreaming about the middle is in vain barchat, intellectuals, gentlemen, poorly studied from bad books. Nowhere in the world there is and cannot be. Either the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie (covered by the lush Socialist-Revolutionary and Menshevik phrases about democracy, constituency, freedoms, etc.), or the dictatorship of the proletariat. He who has not learned this from the history of the whole XIX century is hopeless. ...
    The workers' state is the ruthless enemy of the landowner and the capitalist, the speculator and the swindler, the enemy of private ownership of land and capital, the enemy of the power of money.
    The workers' state is the only true friend and assistant to the working people and peasantry. ... Soviet power is what the "dictatorship of the working class" means in practice ... "
    V. I. Lenin "Letter to the workers and peasants about the victory over Kolchak"
    Pravda No. 190
    28 1919 of August

    Horizontal climbed vertically,
    Comes up with new taxes.
    Now taxes are the main detail,
    So that the head is controlled by the legs.
    “Decisions” are made “upstairs” -
    Pay for all the "working cattle."
    Everyone has a "coronavirus" by ear -
    Imperial companion of self-quarantine.
    YouTube is bursting with useless words,
    The hippodrome is not keeping pace with the photo -
    Bottles, cans of selfless firewood
    Selfish wind nails to the field.
    Selector law is not for everyone.
    State farm horseradish shorter than the webinar.
    Therefore government sin
    Longer than the sliders of the globe.
    The hour of the people's court will come -
    The ladder will be covered with oil.
    Great dictatorship of labor
    We will overcome all our sorrows.

    Felix Chuykov

    16 May 2020 years
  • Bashibuzuk1
    Bashibuzuk1 16 May 2020 20: 12 New
    +1
    In the wake of "patriotism of Novorossiysk," I do not write Russian slowly rewriting history. \
    Everyone knows: the most cruel are religious and civil wars.
    To lament about the atrocities of the Reds, in my opinion, is not entirely appropriate - the atrocities of the Whites have surpassed the Reds.
    Kolchak was a good naval officer, this cannot be taken away.
    But, there is a big BUT: civil war. Not for nothing that whole villages went to the red partisans because of the "love" for Kolchak.
    Well, but there is nothing to say about the Russian intelligentsia, V.I. Ulyanov-Lenin correctly described it. To whom it is necessary - look.
    The USSR is far across the throat due to the calm life of the common people.
    About 30 years: read the history of the CPSU correctly. Do not forget about Bronstein (L. Trotsky) and his plans for the world revolution and its "wood" - the Russian people.
    Hebrews - do not write anything in return, everything is clear with you. The work of L. Trotsky on "the most disenfranchised nation in the Russian Empire" and its consequences in the history of the USSR.
  • Plastmaster
    Plastmaster 17 May 2020 06: 52 New
    +1
    The sad thing is that there is a layer of youth who do not know history and how it was. But they are interested in blowing for whites, kings, kolchaks. Not understanding who they would be in that system.
  • Owl
    Owl 17 May 2020 07: 28 New
    +1
    Using the boards of Manerheim and the busts of Kolchak, they divide the Russian People and inflate mutual hatred among different representatives of the Russian population, in order to prevent the people from rallying in the fight against the main, main enemy of Russia - the corrupt traitors of the capitalists (the “guarantor” and his “friends” oligarchs ").
  • AleBors
    AleBors 17 May 2020 09: 28 New
    0
    Kolchak is an English spy and traitor to the Russian people. So we get to the busts of Vlasov