Project "Federation". Will there be a flight in the future?


Models of the ship "Federation". Carbon fiber product on the left


In 2009, the Energia rocket and space corporation received an order to conduct development work on the topic "A promising new generation transport ship"; subsequently, this project was called the Federation. Work has been going on for more than ten years, but the spacecraft is still not ready, although the latter news disposed to moderate optimism.

Long and expensive


In the first years of work on the future “Federation” (the name has been used since 2016), they went at a fairly high pace and allowed us to make the most daring forecasts. At that time it was believed that flight tests, and then the operation of the ship, could begin at the end of the tenth years. Nevertheless, by the middle of the decade, the postponements of the dates and changes in the budget began, and criticism sounded.

Already in 2011-13. RSC Energia and subcontractors completed the bulk of the design work, and also showed the public several models of the future ship. Then began the production and testing of individual components. One of the most interesting stages of work was the production and testing of a carbon fiber case for the command compartment.


Improving the ergonomics of controls

Since 2016, news has regularly been received about the production and testing of certain components. Preparations began for the construction of an experimental ship for ground and flight tests. Work was carried out on spacesuits and crew seats, etc.

Significant problems have occurred with the launch vehicle. At the early stages, the Rus-M product was considered as such, but then such a project was closed. Subsequently, several more media options were explored until a number of Angara family projects were selected. A specific missile will be selected based on the parameters of the mission.

However, despite certain successes, the general state of the project did not cause much optimism. There were numerous organizational and technical problems that led to schedule adjustments. This led to a change in budget. By the mid-tenths, it became clear that flight tests and manned launches would begin no earlier than the early twenties.

Becomes a cause for criticism and the high cost of the project. So, according to current plans, from 2016 to 2025, 57,5 billion rubles will be spent on the “Federation”. In the past, concerns were expressed about the impossibility of successfully completing the project while maintaining the existing negative trends.


Current schedule


The schedule of work on the topic "Federation" was repeatedly adjusted, and the deadlines for the implementation of certain stages were shifted exclusively to the right. As a result, the current plans for the project differ markedly from those previously called. In particular, the ship did not make a single flight until the beginning of the twenties - it simply did not have time to build it by this time.

According to last year's reports, in 2020 the construction of the first model of the “Federation”, which will then be used in ground tests, should be completed. Flight tests without crew will be held in 2023; the first automatic flight to the ISS - in 2024. A year later, the Federation will fly with astronauts on board. One of the main goals of the project is to fly to the moon. This phase is planned to begin in 2027 with an unmanned flight. The astronauts landing is expected in 2031.

Recent successes


Some of the well-known plans may still remain in doubt, while others look quite realistic. Recent news has given rise to cautious optimism - RSC Energia has already begun construction of the first ships, and they will be ready in the near future. However, the ROC “Federation” is again faced with technical and other problems that could hit both the timing and the budgets.


A year ago, in May 2019, it became known about the beginning of the construction of a new ship. The process begins with the manufacture of enclosures for the aggregate compartment and the returned apparatus. The customer of the products is RSC Energia, the contractor is Samara Plant Arkonik-SMZ.

According to domestic media, it was a new version of the "Federation". Unlike the previously demonstrated developments, the real ship should have aluminum hulls. The use of carbon fiber, as in the previously demonstrated mock-ups, was abandoned for organizational and technological reasons.

In September 2019, Roscosmos announced that the finished ships of the Federation project would receive a new name - the Eagle, in honor of the first Russian frigate. Soon RSC Energia announced the construction of two ships of a new type. The first is intended for testing and testing critical phases of flight; it will be launched in 2023. A year later, a second reusable spacecraft will be sent to space. It is he who will later send to the ISS and into outer space.

New problems


However, in December, negative news reappeared. Domestic media learned that the "Eagle" does not meet part of the technical requirements. The ship in the "lunar" configuration weighs 22 343 kg, 2,3 tons more than the specified limit. Overweight is observed on a number of basic systems and components of the ship. In this regard, measures have been taken to reduce the mass, but even after that it is 21,3 tons, i.e. more than acceptable.


A few days later, the media reported that RSC Energia requested Roscosmos additional funding in the amount of 18 billion rubles. to complete work on the "Eagles". It was planned to spend these funds on the completion of all the main ship systems, including critical ones. Soon this information was commented by the head of Roskosmos Dmitry Rogozin. He specified that additional funds will be spent on infrastructure at the Vostochny spaceport.

Then came another negative piece of news. It turned out that the resource "Eagle" for the flight to the moon below the required. In accordance with the terms of reference, the ship must complete 10 flights. According to the calculations of RSC Energia, in fact, it will be able to make no more than three. In this case, 10 flights into the Earth’s orbit are possible.

On May 5, 2020, the general designer of the manned programs of RSC Energia Evgeni Mikrin passed away. He was in charge of several projects, including promising "Federation". A change in program leadership can lead to some organizational consequences, even the most serious and negative ones. However, it is not yet clear how exactly these events will affect the work on the Eagle / Federation.

Optimism vs. Pessimism


In general, a rather difficult situation has been observed around the ROC “Federation” for quite some time. The project was not easy in all respects, which repeatedly led to a review of the design, cost and timing of completion of certain stages. In addition, all these changes often led to the most pessimistic assessments - although the project developers and other responsible persons continued to be optimistic.


In recent months, reasons for positive ratings have reappeared. After many years of waiting, despite all the difficulties, RSC Energia and its subcontractors began construction of two new type of spacecraft at once. Work on at least one of them will be completed in the near future, which will allow us to begin new long-awaited events.

However, all subsequent events will take several more years, and the flight of the “Eagle” in automatic mode will only be possible in 2024. The manned launch will take place even later. To obtain such results from the space industry, it is necessary to continue to work and solve the tasks in time. If any problems arise at new stages, the next schedule changes are possible.

However, the situation is gradually changing. The project "Federation" was able to bring to the construction of equipment. This suggests that the work is not abandoned, and in the future it will be possible to obtain the desired result. But the actual terms of manned flights to orbit and to the moon, as well as the total cost of the program, remain in question. Will the current cautious optimism grow into something more? ..
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Roscosmos, RSC Energia
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  1. 7,62h54 14 May 2020 05: 19 New
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    - and again, not everything is ready !?
    - the haircut has just begun!
  2. Courier 14 May 2020 05: 29 New
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    Successes. To see the flight to the moon, during life.
    1. Avior 14 May 2020 06: 25 New
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      There is a chance
      There is a project to put the station into the Moon’s orbit and through it make landings on the Moon.
      2024 seems to be planned
      1. Freemason Mason 14 May 2020 09: 17 New
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        So LOP-G is an American project, and most likely Crew Dragon and Starliner will fly on it. But it is unlikely to be built by 2024 (
        1. Avior 14 May 2020 09: 22 New
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          I also doubt
          But the project is international, as I understand it
          1. Freemason Mason 14 May 2020 09: 27 New
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            There, the leading role of the USA is foreseen there, although cooperation with other countries is allowed. If Rogozin does not proudly declare that Russia does not agree to cooperate on such conditions, I am for it. Because this station is the only way to keep our astronautics afloat after the closure of the ISS
        2. Blackmokona 14 May 2020 10: 57 New
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          The Orion ship will be flying according to plans. In the future, Starship may be added to it.
    2. Leonid Batsura 15 May 2020 20: 37 New
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      The question is: did the Americans fly to the moon? As far as one can understand, if at all something can be understood, all plans are developed with 100% officially declared confidence that the Americans flew to the moon. Hence the official optimism: "The Americans were able and we can." But when people come to realities, it becomes scary: “And if you didn’t fly and the Apollo’s crew compartment is a virtual thing, and we take it as, as it were, a prototype .... Let the Americans fly forward ... And radiation protection?
    3. Starshina 21 May 2020 18: 55 New
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      IT'S NOT MEANT TO BE...
  3. Same lech 14 May 2020 05: 31 New
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    We’re treading water ... we are taking American passengers to the ISS ... in general, our astronautics have not seen any serious successes in the foreseeable future.
    1. ccsr 14 May 2020 10: 40 New
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      Quote: The same Lech
      We’re treading water ... we are taking American passengers to the ISS ... in general, our astronautics have not seen any serious successes in the foreseeable future.

      Near-Earth programs at the stations give at least some economic effect, at least from the point of view of obtaining scientific results in various areas of research. What will give us a flight to the moon, except that we will spend a lot of money, and perhaps prove that the American astronauts did not go to the surface of the moon. I think that for us the flight to the moon is not relevant, if only because we received the materials of the lunar soil fifty years ago from our lunar rovers.
      1. Civil 14 May 2020 12: 00 New
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        Near-Earth programs at the stations give at least some economic effect,

        I learn the handwriting of effective managers) do I need to optimize space? And something not optimized left there?
        1. ccsr 14 May 2020 12: 17 New
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          Quote: Civil
          I learn the handwriting of effective managers) do I need to optimize space?

          First of all, it is necessary to develop the near space - this is how those who really appreciate our capabilities believe. And deep space may wait - it will not give us anything real, and moreover, our technologies will float abroad because of some corrupt personalities, like Sagdeev. We already went through this, but you just don’t know how it happened.
          1. Civil 14 May 2020 13: 31 New
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            Quote: ccsr
            Quote: Civil
            I learn the handwriting of effective managers) do I need to optimize space?

            First of all, it is necessary to develop the near space - this is how those who really appreciate our capabilities believe. And deep space may wait - it will not give us anything real, and moreover, our technologies will float abroad because of some corrupt personalities, like Sagdeev. We already went through this, but you just don’t know how it happened.


            We all know and remember) how it went from the fleet to the giants of Soviet industry.
          2. Passing 29 June 2020 15: 55 New
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            Quote: ccsr
            And deep space can wait - it will not give us anything real

            Such things do not give anything useful in the narrow-minded understanding, they are intended to confirm the status of a civilizational leader. If you spend money on the exploration of Mars - you have the Right, you spend money on eating Mars - you have the obligation to work for the good of those who have the Right.
      2. Leonid Batsura 15 May 2020 20: 59 New
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        After all, there was an official program for returning to the moon in the USA. She died quietly under the pretext that the United States is tense with money. But they spent almost 10 years on the program, spent $ 30 billion (according to rumors) and ... attracted scientists to work on the return program ... But it would be better not to attract. And it’s already quite rumored: scientists have issued a verdict that when implementing the Apollo program, not a single problem of a manned flight to the moon was solved, and that for the foreseeable period (at the beginning of the century it was 2040, now it is 2060) the United States will not be able to create technical means for a manned flight to the moon. And who without shudder and without looking back, did anyone see that I read this? Fearfully...
        What rocket should Energia count on? Proton-M is liquidated, and Angara-A5 - where is it? And what's the point of blaming the people of Energy ?. They are also people ... Someone will decide to get into the skin of these people and feel how “cozy” is in this skin ... A question of the same radiation protection: 400mm thickness is one “Federation”; no radiation protection is needed - this is another "Federation" (or "Eagle"). Why? Yes, 400mm is for flying to Mars, but here it’s nearby: "I walked barefoot to the dear in the frost!"
      3. Starshina 21 May 2020 18: 59 New
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        Maybe it's better to close all space programs and there will be more money?
        1. ccsr 21 May 2020 20: 36 New
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          Quote: Starshina
          Maybe it's better to close all space programs and there will be more money?

          No, it’s not better - near space is already a real sphere of activity of our economy, the same GLONASS for example. And the military use of space programs for us should be a priority. That's what you need to spend money on, first of all, and not on flights to the moon.
  4. The comment was deleted.
  5. Pessimist22 14 May 2020 05: 38 New
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    Why not throw this journalist Rogozin and put a competent person?
    1. Ross xnumx 14 May 2020 08: 11 New
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      Quote: Pessimist22
      Why not throw this journalist Rogozin and put a competent person?

      Again? belay
      Why throw out this “respected” professional in certain circles? He did so much for the Russian space (or in Roskosmos ???) that even now it became obvious who, maybe even so, would jump into space on a trampoline ...
      Recently, a program was broadcast about Sergey Pavlovich Korolyov. There has been a lot of talk about people who are sick for their work.
      1. AUL
        AUL 14 May 2020 08: 52 New
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        The trouble is, since the pie begins to stitch the boots ... (A.I. Krylov)
    2. Starshina 21 May 2020 19: 01 New
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      LOWER .. LOWER .. LOWER ..
  6. svp67 14 May 2020 05: 43 New
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    So, according to current plans, from 2016 to 2025, “Federation” will take 57,5 billion rubles
    How can such a "lot" of money go to it if this project is no longer there, but is
    In September 2019, Roscosmos announced that the finished ships of the Federation project would receive a new name - the Eagle, in honor of the first Russian frigate.
    not quite true, the whole project was renamed "Eagle".
    On May 5, 2020, the general designer of the manned programs of RSC Energia Evgeni Mikrin passed away.
    Died of coronavirus in Kommunarka, presumably infected during his stay in Baikonur ...
    1. Starshina 21 May 2020 19: 05 New
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      Korolev turned over in his grave .. fabulous dolbyodyatly .. cut dough continues !!! URA URA URA !!!
  7. ruivit1988 14 May 2020 05: 47 New
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    It seems to me that this project is tormented up to 24 years, then again. But the operation of the station will not be extended and flooded, thereby our effective managers will say. Why do we need a ship, when we do not have a station, there is an old proven alliance, so it will be enough to carry experiments into orbit. Whether our station will be built in orbit, this becomes clear as with a ship. They can design, but it’s not clear to build. If the construction of the new ISS begins, and it doesn’t matter on the moon or in the orbit of the earth, they will call us there in the forest because we have already given them to them and sold them new, we cannot offer anything, because there is nothing new. So trindets will come to our manned space program in the foreseeable future, which is most likely. And then they will shout from each iron that from this very manned space program there is nothing good and we won’t wait for profit. So, I don’t, of course, hope that I am mistaken, but that something is missing from me.
    1. Same lech 14 May 2020 06: 03 New
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      something lacks optimism for me.

      You are not alone in this ... smile but such is la la vie.
      There is no clear-cut policy of the Kremlin regarding our cosmonautics ... what does he want it for? ... just being in space or gaining a leading role in space exploration.
      1. Vladimir_2U 14 May 2020 06: 35 New
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        Restrained optimism is much better than uncontrollable pessimism, but worse than a real flying product, it is also much.
      2. 72jora72 14 May 2020 08: 18 New
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        There is no clear-cut policy of the Kremlin regarding our cosmonautics ... what does he want it?
        And can you say what the Kremlin wants in general, and is there any clear and distinct policy regarding at least something ???
      3. A.TOR 14 May 2020 10: 41 New
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        leading role in space exploration

        What does it mean? Tell me
        1. Same lech 14 May 2020 10: 44 New
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          What does it mean? Tell me

          Well, for example ... to create the first production of products in space ... for example, microcircuits ... or to create a station in the orbit of the Moon ... there are many options for an entrepreneurial person and state. smile ... the main thing is that the return is real.
          1. A.TOR 14 May 2020 10: 49 New
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            Why do you need the "first production"? What and for what / whom "microcircuits" are you going to release in space? Those that are released on earth do not suit you?
            A station in orbit of the moon - alone without the US / West?
            Enterprising people - where? In Russia?
            And - the main thing: WHO will be the consumer of all these "achievements"? Again MIC?
            1. Same lech 14 May 2020 10: 56 New
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              A lot of right questions ... smile I was fully convinced of enterprising people in Russia ... I just need to correctly direct their energy to the direction necessary for the state ... after all, how did Russia manage to become the owner of one sixth of the land on our planet ... without enterprising people it would be impossible ... but then the trouble rests against the Kremlin again.
              It is not worth hoping for the USA in space exploration ... it is better to cooperate with the Chinese.
              Consumers will not appear on their own; they need to be created ... in business this is often done to sell products ... well, this is a purely technical issue.
              As for microcircuits ... that is, unique electronics that can only be created under vacuum and the absence of gravity ... for example, sensitive sensors for various purposes.
              1. A.TOR 14 May 2020 11: 04 New
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                this is a purely technical matter

                this is not a "technical" question, this is a question of philosophy, on the basis of which the formation of the degree of "market" of a particular state and, accordingly, the formation of its system of priorities
                1. Same lech 14 May 2020 11: 08 New
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                  The whole philosophy of man all the same in the end rests on the banal I want to eat and sleep ... there's nothing to be done ... but on a full stomach, one can speculate on philosophy and on the basis and degree of market state. smile
                  I always wondered why some people with several higher education are easily scammed by various business thieves. what
                  1. A.TOR 14 May 2020 11: 11 New
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                    Is it possible in more detail? Somehow I didn’t catch ...
                    1. Same lech 14 May 2020 11: 21 New
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                      Well, let's say it is necessary to create jobs ... you need to give an impetus to the development of industry ... space allows you to do this ... all the more you need to take into account that the population of the planet Earth multiplies quite quickly ... and balance the resources of the planet and the desire of mankind to not have them comparable for the existence of mankind.
                      1. A.TOR 14 May 2020 11: 28 New
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                        OK. Having created new space technologies, Russia will introduce them for the benefit of mankind
                      2. Same lech 14 May 2020 11: 32 New
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                        Eh, if Russia’s space technologies were implemented quickly and efficiently, I would be happy ... the very same Glonass is still being sneaked into the national economy.
                    2. A.TOR 14 May 2020 11: 35 New
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                      By the way, about this one ... I didn’t understand again
                      I always wondered why some people with several higher education are easily scammed by various business thieves.
                    3. Same lech 14 May 2020 11: 36 New
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                      Yes it brought me ... smile hi thinking swam a little the other way ... sorry.
  • Avior 14 May 2020 06: 29 New
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    . they will call us there to Ryatli, because what we could give them to them have already given and sold

    I had to read a more unpleasant explanation as to why they did not want to call into the lunar project.
    The cost of flights to the ISS for Americans has grown many times over the time when they bought seats.
    Actually accused of zeal and do not want to have a deal
  • ALARI 14 May 2020 12: 06 New
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    What construction of the new station, the already constructed scientific module cannot be launched, they cannot bring to mind. And how to launch protons write off, hangars heavy still have not seen in the eyes.
  • Starshina 21 May 2020 19: 08 New
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    Remember the CLIPPER project, where is it?
  • Whirlwind 14 May 2020 06: 02 New
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    "Through hardship to the stars !"
    1. Ross xnumx 14 May 2020 08: 02 New
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      And the late Igor Talkov long ago stated this:
  • Pashhenko Nikolay 14 May 2020 06: 18 New
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    They plan to land on the moon in 2031, but they are not even planning to develop a landing module. Although, of course, 11 years is a lot of time for our modern astronautics, a lot of projects are planned and re-planned.
    1. ruivit1988 14 May 2020 07: 51 New
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      Then they will conclude that we do not need this.
  • Free wind 14 May 2020 06: 26 New
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    And what is there to do on the moon? Well, bring another half a bucket of lunar mud. So it has already been studied, and realized that there is no nifig. it might be better to worry about the earth.
    1. Same lech 14 May 2020 06: 32 New
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      And what is there to do on the moon?


      There is a lot to do about it ... tourism ... minerals (Helium 3) ... various harmful industries ... various laboratories and observatories for studying harmful planet viruses and much more ... if you wish, you can settle down on the Moon ... we need the political will of earthlings ... but so far every country looks into space from its doghouse ... figuratively speaking and thinks accordingly.
      1. Leonid Batsura 15 May 2020 21: 13 New
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        On the moon, the Americans ran in "adidaskes", and the VCD with the ISS are carried out in a kind of spacecraft ... And in 6 hours one nut is turned off, wrapped. I really want to read the refutation of my bullshit frozen. And how on the moon will you load helium-3 with a shovel onto the spacecraft returned to Earth?
    2. kjhg 14 May 2020 07: 24 New
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      Quote: Free Wind
      And what is there to do on the moon?

      Think too narrowly. The moon is only the first small step to practice technology. Then there will be stations on Mars. Then, after a few thousand years, they may begin to build stations outside the solar system. And uninhabited research vehicles will be sent there in the near future. Humanity is also a kind of virus that seeks to spread as much as possible in order to survive. The lifetime of life on Earth is limited by the time the Sun began to turn into a Red giant, when it first burns everything on Earth and then swallows it. Scientists know this. There is still time, but also the tasks facing them are arduous.
      1. Free wind 14 May 2020 08: 03 New
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        So the two Voyagers have already gone beyond the limits of the solar system. there is nothing for us to do on the moon, helium 3 is mythical, no one knows how to use it, it is quite possible that this is not real. even if the moon consisted of gold with platinum, it would still be unprofitable. Martians were not found on Mars, and on Venus. no veneres. Until new means of cargo delivery to space appear, we have nothing to do on all kinds of Mars.
      2. ccsr 16 May 2020 11: 15 New
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        Quote: kjhg
        The moon is only the first small step to practice technology. Then there will be stations on Mars. Then, after a few thousand years, they may begin to build stations outside the solar system.

        And I think that we need to take a step in the development of Siberia and the Far East and create conditions there so that people from the European part would tear there, not only because of money, but also because the environment is cleaner there and more developed infrastructure . The moon will wait another couple of hundred years, but the life of our people is not so long as to think about what will happen on the Earth in thousands of years. Let's spend money in order to create better living conditions for them today - this will give us an influx of educated people who will be able to move our space programs.
        1. kjhg 16 May 2020 12: 47 New
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          Quote: ccsr
          And I think that we need to take a step in the development of Siberia and the Far East and create conditions there so that people from the European part would tear there, not only because of money, but also because the environment is cleaner there and more developed infrastructure .

          Siberia and the Far East, our grandfathers have already mastered and settled by people who are now fleeing from there in all directions. I hope you don’t need to explain the reason?
          Quote: ccsr
          Let's spend money in order to create better living conditions for them today - this will give us an influx of educated people who will be able to move our space programs.

          Understand, finally, that the government that has existed since 1991 is not interested in creating better conditions for citizens. They are not interested in science, scientists (the exception is militarily). What for? For what? They, just like you, know that their life is short and try to squeeze as much money FOR THEMSELVES from this country and its citizens. Spit on you, on me, on Siberia and the Far East from a high bell tower.
          Quote: ccsr
          The moon will wait another couple of hundred years, but the life of our people is not so long as to think about what will happen on the Earth in thousands of years.

          Now about the serious. You, as a typical consumer, think about improving your own conditions. But well-being is a relative concept, like everything in this world. What, in fact, is not enough for you to say that now is the time to do serious things? Do you have a running water at home? Heating? Sewers? Electricity? Strip? Medicine? Health care? A car? At home? etc. I am sure that there is. Then what are you missing? Oh yes, of course, you want 2 cars, a bigger house, travel around the world more, work less and earn more, keep a servant, etc. Believe me, I do not blame you. You are not to blame for this. I also want all this because it is inherent in us by nature itself. These are normal desires of a healthy person. From a practical point of view, this means an increase in resource consumption by each individual person in our planet and in particular. But let's think, what does the global increase in the consumption of all kinds of resources mean for the Earth? Therefore, among the representatives of the human race there should be people who think on a much larger scale, able to think about the future, at least within 100 thousand years. Can you imagine what will happen to humanity and the Earth in at least 100 thousand years if it behaves in the same irresponsible way? You can not. You do not want. Of course, why do you need this, because then you personally will no longer be there. The main thing for you is to live with dignity today. Okay, again, I digress something from the main thing. So, I want to ask you, have you ever been interested in the emergence and development of all living and non-living in the Universe? Have you tried to understand the size of the universe, or at least our galaxy? Present her size? Mass? Understand by what laws all this exists? Where did organic life come from? etc. You know that every neutron and atom of which you are composed, the oxygen that you breathe, the water that you drink, are conceived in the centers of huge Stars and came to us as a result of their death, collapse and a terrible explosion that carried them all over the Galaxy ?
          What I wrote to you now is not fiction. This is the KNOWLEDGE obtained as a result of the work of those few people about whom I told you above. These best representatives of humanity are not interested in your yachts, cars and villas. For them, all these things mean nothing, NOTHING. Their highest value is knowledge, discoveries, expansion of the boundaries of knowledge of our tiny colony of life in this Universe - humanity.
          I will take the audacity to give you advice. When you have at least a little free time, study, study the results of the work of scientists, take an interest in the latest discoveries of scientists, the birth of new hypotheses, etc. I declare to you responsibly that when you become interested in this, you understand that it is so interesting and amazing that your views on life will change.
          If, all of a sudden, you still found the patience in yourself to read my monologue to the end, then I want to wish you all the besthi
          1. ccsr 16 May 2020 13: 08 New
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            Quote: kjhg
            Siberia and the Far East, our grandfathers have already mastered and settled by people who are now fleeing from there in all directions. I hope you don’t need to explain the reason?

            They are fleeing due to frustration and low salaries in the first place - I know that for sure.

            Quote: kjhg
            Understand, finally, that the government that has existed since 1991 is not interested in creating better conditions for citizens.

            But our people themselves wanted to live under capitalism - do you condemn the people’s choice and the power that he himself chose in the person of the drunk president?
            Quote: kjhg
            Now about the serious. You, as a typical consumer, think about improving your own conditions.

            I’m not a typical consumer - unlike you and most of the writers here, I know better how much the military programs cost us, including space exploration. That's why I think that it is more reasonable to spend money on space exploration.
            Quote: kjhg
            . When you have at least a little free time, study, study the results of the work of scientists, take an interest in the latest discoveries of scientists, the birth of new hypotheses, etc. I declare to you responsibly that when you become interested in this, you understand that it is so interesting and amazing that your views on life will change.

            Do not fool me, dear — you’ve hardly ever been on the presidium of the USSR Academy of Sciences, or participated in the reception of a scientific research work of an academic institute, but I had it behind me. So remember, any scientific activity needs money, but your dreams can really cost the state free of charge - this is what we called Manilovism.
    3. Ross xnumx 14 May 2020 07: 57 New
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      Quote: Free Wind
      So it has already been studied, and realized that there is no nifig.

      laughing
      - "Earth", "Earth", I "Moon" can hear you well.
      - Vanya, drop everything and fly back. There is no shisha on this moon of yours, understand? Nothing. I spell it ...
    4. donavi49 14 May 2020 08: 48 New
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      This applies to the entire manned space. As practice shows, at this stage, the AMS provide much more data and make discoveries than people at a lower cost.

      However, the key point is at this stage. To skip the technical leap is the same as voluntarily giving up electricity in our everyday life. For there are huge opportunities for work, research, technology.

      Again, if you take the US + EU + Japan + Canada program, they are building a base station. This is the new ISS (smaller) only in the orbit of the moon in fact. It can be used for detailed exploration of the moon, as a support platform for launching satellites, probes (which will be delivered packed and compact on a truck). Also, the station can act as a gateway-reference point-AP for missions to other planets.
      1. nikodeus 15 May 2020 10: 22 New
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        Did I miss something? When did they start building a station in orbit of the moon? They have exactly the same saw cutters. Even cooler. I will not be surprised if everything will be limited to the orbital flights of the Starliners and Dragons.
    5. Mordvin 3 14 May 2020 12: 34 New
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      Quote: Free Wind
      realized that there is no nifig.

      Did they dig deeply, or did they dust off the surface?
    6. Pashhenko Nikolay 14 May 2020 17: 27 New
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      That's right, but why then announce the moon landing?
    7. ruivit1988 18 May 2020 06: 48 New
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      And what is there to do on the moon? Well, bring another half a bucket of lunar mud. So it has already been studied, and realized that there is no nifig. it might be better to worry about the earth.
      At work, we somehow discussed this issue, the driver also said what to do there and in general why we need this station. And it seems like they’re right for what. Well, I’m thinking what’s needed and that's why, first of all, I’m developing and developing technologies for deep space flights. Beyond that will be the development and development of technologies for the extraction of rare earth metals that the region needs for microelectronics. And when the division of the moon and asteroids begins, we will be asked the question who are you !? Where are your flags and devices and indeed if you need these metals so buy from us we will sell you only for the price that we will tell you. That's what the station and the moon are for. Only our station is needed without any partners, including deep space exploration, too, and again, preferably without partners. And space sharing I think it will definitely be and we must be prepared for this.
  • rudolff 14 May 2020 07: 14 New
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    And before the Federation, about ten years with Clipper, they were busy, all of them were shown to exhibitions and to salons. Now no one remembers ...
  • Ross xnumx 14 May 2020 07: 54 New
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    Sadly, the fact remains. With the current economic structure of the Russian Federation (I'm not talking about the professionalism and fanaticism of the leaders of the Russian Space Agency and other structures), when:
    Becomes a cause for criticism and the high cost of the project. So, according to current plans, from 2016 to 2025, 57,5 billion rubles will be spent on the “Federation”. In the past, concerns were expressed about the impossibility of successfully completing the project while maintaining the existing negative trends.

    it becomes incomprehensible the trends of the process itself and the worries for budgetary funds, the reasons for the impossibility of completing the project when the so-called “uykhdokano” project was famous for:
    According to experts from the Accounts Chamber, direct costs for the preparation and holding of the Olympic Games amounted to almost 325 billion rubles, including 104 billion rubles. budget funds.

    and today, when with all the “self-isolation” and “zeroing the deadlines” no one is given the importance of priorities: “big sport” or “big space”,
    THE QUESTION OF THE CREATION AND THE FOLLOWING EXISTENCE OF THE “FEDERATION” WILL ALSO BE UNSOLVED!
    1. Fevralsk. Morev 14 May 2020 08: 50 New
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      Under the guise of "ambitious projects" are clumsy show-offs and the distribution of contracts to friends, as an honest way to withdraw money from the budget.
  • Jurkovs 14 May 2020 07: 56 New
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    The history of the Federation is a direct continuation of the history of the Angara. This is a continuation of the competitive undercover struggle between Energy and TsiHom. When it turned out that the Angara was not suitable, as a basis, for heavyweight, and the Angara-A3 variant, for loads of 15 tons, remained only on advertising posters, we decided to eliminate both shortcomings by designing the Soyuz-5 rocket, in the mono version it is 15-17 tons, in a modular version it is heavyweight. At the same time, it was tacitly admitted that the Angara project would be quietly closed. Under the Soyuz-5 rocket, TK was issued on a new manned ship. But TsiH conducted art-bureaucratic preparations and a change in the technical specifications of the ship came into being. The ship was supposed to be in two versions: for flying into orbit and for flying to the moon. The difference was in the aggregate compartment, the lunar version required more fuel and as a result the mass of the aggregate compartment grew. It was announced that the orbital version would be launched by Soyuz-5, and the lunar version by Angara-A5B. But on the Angara-A5V, even the technical assignment was not issued, and for the Angara-A5M urgent loads are needed. And now, through the mouth of Rogozin, Roscosmos announces that there will still be one version of the Federation - the lunar one and will be launched on the Angara. Thus, Soyuz-5 deprived of the load and it is not at all clear why it is being created. But now the Energy has already aroused, and information leaks have begun that if you make the methane second stage by Soz-5, it will close the loads up to 24 tons and then the Angara can be thrown into a landfill. But TK has not yet been changed, although some initiative studies are already underway.
    From all this mess it follows that Rossinant (Russia) will not take out two of them, and the sturgeon must be greatly curtailed. That is, a political decision is required to close either TsiH or Energy, as duplicating corporations that instead of competing on the world stage compete with each other domestically and thereby become the main cause of stagnation in our space program. I think that the Eagle will not fly either, since they will have time to rename it to please the new (after Rogozin) head of Roscosmos.
    1. Firelake 14 May 2020 08: 24 New
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      I agree. In Russia, in general, big problems with strategic planning
    2. Leonid Batsura 15 May 2020 21: 36 New
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      Methane is cryogenic kerosene. Theorists are counting the specific impulse for 10 s more than for LCD + kerosene. But this is with great imagination. And in a rocket there are two cryogenic components. Almost the same as on a rocket powered by an LCD + LW fuel ... But for 100 seconds the specific impulse values ​​are less. Methane is a kind of good fight in front of the USA. Since the 1990s, methane among frightened leaders has been stimulated by the opportunity to create a liquid-propellant rocket engine with a “sweet scheme” afterburning. "Do you need it?" "Oh, I want a beautiful solution, and the powerful rocket engines created after burning according to the" acidic scheme "are old things that nobody needs. And the Americans tell us that. And they are smart people, not like us." Leaking hydrogen rises, spilled kerosene is collected in puddles and it is impossible to set fire to it with an abandoned lit match. But methane is collected in the plexus of metal structures and does not pass a week, so that we are not informed about the explosion of the house. And near Asha, two trains destroyed a methane explosion. Methane is a new reality ... But if you are afraid to do space research, then in a circle to master more and more fuel vapors - this is the ultimate dream for businessmen. The oxidizing agent is two times and miscalculated, and combustible - 400 and even more compositions
  • zxc15682 14 May 2020 08: 37 New
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    To attach a household compartment ... It will turn out Union again. winked And so is Apollo.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • veritas 14 May 2020 08: 53 New
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    Will the current cautious optimism grow into something more? ..

    To be optimistic about the future, much needs to be changed. Unfortunately, no changes are observed anywhere.
  • prior 14 May 2020 08: 56 New
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    The Federation ship will not fly, what difference does it make.
    Good money is allocated and allocated for the project.
    All involved are satisfied. The explanations why it did not fly will be completely reasoned.
    And for this they will not shoot anyone, and perhaps even reward.
    This is our "mudflow".
  • Fevralsk. Morev 14 May 2020 08: 56 New
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    Quote: Pessimist22
    Why not throw this journalist Rogozin and put a competent person?

    So there, in the government, everyone is like that. The Minister of Agriculture of the Russian Federation, the son of Patrushev, graduated from the Foreign Ministry Academy and the FSB Academy. He knows how to twist cows tails. But Rogozin does not suit you. These are effective managers. They know how to absorb (or assimilate) budget funds, and as for fly, there was no agreement. The main thing is not the result, but participation.
  • Ros 56 14 May 2020 09: 01 New
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    This is where Kudrin must dig the earth with his horn and seek out the misuse of state funds. And then to transfer materials to the investigative committee. Then everything will both fly and swim and sit who should be.
  • steelmaker 14 May 2020 10: 05 New
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    For something to change, you need to change something! While Rogozin steers, nothing will come of it!
  • senima56 14 May 2020 12: 53 New
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    Some promises are heard ....... and yet: "WFWF" - this is the budget being cut!
    When will they start asking ?! Where is the landing? !!!
  • Sahalinets 14 May 2020 14: 32 New
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    So the goal is to lead an endless process of cutting money, not bringing to a real result.
    1. senima56 14 May 2020 17: 10 New
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      I think so too! "Improve, bring, test, etc." it is possible to infinity! The main thing is that money flow on it! "Living example" our SU-57 ....
  • bars1 14 May 2020 16: 14 New
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    Quote: Jurkovs
    From all this mess it follows that Rossinant (Russia) will not take out two of them, and the sturgeon must be greatly curtailed. That is, a political decision is required to close either TsiH or Energy, as duplicating corporations that instead of competing on the world stage compete with each other domestically and thereby become the main cause of stagnation in our space program.

    Serdyukov is already in the UAC.
  • Knell wardenheart 14 May 2020 21: 12 New
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    And as before - since the time of the “Buran” - why are we all doing this?
    If you remove the "prestige" "considerations of ensuring access of the Russian Federation into space", what benefit? After all, take a look around - here we are left with miserable frauds from free education and free medicine, the state, even in such a crisis as it is now, is trying to crawl away from its social obligations as far as possible - because these are all budget items. Do you think they will make an exception for space?)
    The Federation, like our flight to the Moon, as well as the new LV (including the reusable one), will not bring us short-medium-term guaranteed income. Long-term income is also in doubt because we are already malicious, we look with deep sorrow at the successes of Mask and Bezos, how Boeing comes on their heels and even the way Trump recently swung to share Lunar resources has already caused such a bad attack panic attacks.
    I'm not saying that all this is not necessary - no. I say that from the point of view of our state and how it conducts business in all other areas - all this is nothing more than a fun, muddy and costly relic. Which they do without a soul, because the mother said, but not for the sake of something specific, specifically asking and specifically demanding.
    And glad to shout "Hurray!" and wave the flag - but most likely the “Federation” is waiting for a very modest exploitation, and this is in the best of options.
  • iouris 14 May 2020 22: 57 New
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    Held if "Union".
  • Frol Agripa 15 May 2020 06: 29 New
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    My personal opinion is that while Putin is in power and generally appointed people, such as Rogozin, Manturov, Nabiulin, etc., in general, all Putin's power in any industry, Russian Cosmos in particular will launch to the moon and release it in the open outer space is only PROJECTS, exactly the same as Putin himself regularly broadcasts to us, such as strategy 2020, national projects, etc. etc. !!! This is the way this power exists. That Rogozin, that Putin is continuous PROJECTS. HOW SCIENCES WERE NOT THERE FOR THESE YEARS, SO AND NO. HOW THEY HAVE BEEN STEALED AND STEALED. As there was no economy, no. As the Sechins, Millers, Chubais and the like receive crazy salaries, and the common people for 12 tr, this will continue.
    Putin’s power is VISUAL for any Industry and science and economy, and especially Space. The Russian space industry, after the closure of the Energia-Buran project, is not being trampled on the spot, it is degrading. Firstly, there is no economy, which means there are no production and industry ties. Secondly, it is a theft. In the Third, exorbitantly high salaries of officials.
    And most importantly, it is NON-PROFESSIONALISM, HOMELESS, SHAMELESS, GLOBALITY and Anti-Nationality of the All Powerful Structure, starting with Putin!
    1. nikodeus 15 May 2020 10: 28 New
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      I'm wildly sorry. Let me ask you, who do you see on Putin’s place? What is the name, sister (s)
    2. iouris 15 May 2020 11: 36 New
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      Quote: Frol Agripa
      while Putin is in power and people appointed by him

      If you replace them, then nothing will change, because the founder stated: "Chubais is to blame for everything!"
  • Blackgrifon 15 May 2020 18: 49 New
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    This is all good, but without the militarization of outer space, no particularly significant successes in this area threaten anyone. Maximum - a couple of dozens of unmanned shuttles "exceptional" with missiles on board put on duty (there are already precedents with an annual flight and with a secret mission).
  • Maxwrx 16 May 2020 01: 37 New
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    1. We do not have superheavy rockets so that the system can fly to the moon. The Yenisei missile under development is scheduled to take off in 28g. The cost of the development program is 1,5 trillion (!) P. The budget of the entire Roskosmos for all programs is 176 billion / year. Where especially now they will find money for it ?? Usually in our cosmonautics, dates are postponed 2 times from the planned
    2. The mission itself is an ordinary flag stick. Scientific input is minimal.
    3. The ship itself will be expensive, much more expensive than the union. It will be unprofitable to fly on the ISS.
    4. The construction of a lunar or lunar base is not even planned. The meaning of this ship is to repeat what the Americans did in the 60s.

    Conclusion. With our economy and leadership, we will not fly to the moon in the next 15 years for sure. A sum of money will be spent on the flag stick, which will not bring any special scientific results. I really want us to fly to the moon, but not with such a program and not with these people.

    While we still have competencies in some areas of world-class science and importance, the same range of satellites, the construction of orbital stations, etc. The lunar program will finally slow down these areas, since it will expel all the money of people. She will do more harm than good
  • Old Orc 21 May 2020 15: 43 New
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    The whole problem of the modern industry of the Russian Federation is that people need to rejoice at least with something and prove that we have bypassed the ducks, whose galoshes, according to the president’s words, the only thing that he produced, flew into space regularly, and regularly weight and internal volume thrown galoshes grew .. Therefore, PR projects with beautiful pictures and cartoons. entertaining the people, while answering the people the question "where is the money." If they had done as they had created, checked, launched, reported the start of use, then when and why there weren’t any of these issues. but the question is where is the money anyway.