Military Review

Why in Europe there was practically no partisan movement

189
Why in Europe there was practically no partisan movement

Somehow I coincided with two events that occurred during these holidays. The first event is a conversation with a foreigner who really wants to know Russia and Russians. His mother once married a foreigner long ago and went to live in the West. A young man was born there. But, unlike beautiful stories from the Internet, there was nothing Russian in his upbringing. This is a typical representative of the "democratic world."


As an adult, he began to think about one fact, which he had not paid attention to for many years. His family was having a holiday. Every year, on May 9, the whole family gathered at the table and congratulated mom on her victory. They remembered her father and grandfather, who died in the war. But they weren't soldiers. They were partisans.

It is difficult to understand Soviet for a civilized person


History pretty confusing. Therefore, I will skip a lot of our conversations. But there is one point that really interested me. The young man asked a simple but very deep question. Why was there no resistance movement in the USSR? Why was there "some kind of" underground? And then it does ...

If the partisans were not members of the warring army, but acted in the rear of the army with weapons in his hands (he said tougher-committed crimes), then they are bandits? If so, why in their family consider them winners in the war? Can a civilized society, to which he includes himself, make heroes of bandits? These are such interesting questions from a European in whose blood a piece of Russian blood fermented.

The second event is much less interesting. It is completely trivial. Yesterday my son sent me a video about a Belarusian village that few people know about, but which Khatyn had burned even earlier. This is the village of Borki, where almost all the inhabitants died. 2000 people were burned. Journalists called her the eldest sister of Khatyn.

The son sent the video without comment. Just remembering that in our family there is such an episode. More precisely, three episodes. My father, then a boy, was driven into the club three times with all the villagers, but for some reason, fortunately, they didn’t burn him ... But the men from this small village in full force left to partisan. Including my grandfather. And they beat the enemy until the liberation of Belarus.

Why the Soviets became partisans


Indeed, why did partisan detachments spontaneously arise in the USSR almost from the very beginning of the war, but not in European countries? I’m not talking about those units of various departments that were left behind during the retreat in the rear of the Germans to organize intelligence and sabotage. Not even about the formations of Soviet and party workers, for whom caches were created with weapons and food, and which were to become the backbone of future detachments. 

Most of the partisan detachments in the early days and months of the war arose spontaneously. From the encirclement, from the locals who suffered from the advancing army, from the escaped prisoners. They appeared and disappeared quite quickly. Affected by the lack of experience of guerrilla warfare, the lack of weapons and all that is necessary for the partisans. But some grew and acted quite actively.

We are used to talking about guerrilla groups as a popular movement in the occupied territory. And yet this is not so. Spontaneous units did not arise in the territories that were returned to the USSR in the late 30s and early 40s. Moreover, the activities of the NKVD detachments and groups there were extremely difficult. Difficult precisely from the attitude of the local population.

It seems to me that to answer this question, especially since it already sounds from the West, is necessary. I will voice my own point of view on this. It is the one that was voiced recently to my interlocutor.

It seems to me the whole thing is in the mentality of the population. In the lifestyle that ordinary people led then. We have been told many times that the NKVD terrorized the peasants, that people were intimidated and other “information for thought” allegedly from the opened archives of the Cheka-NKVD. 

I will not dispute this information. I’ll just ask readers from the depths of the country, from Siberia, from the Urals, from Altai and other bear corners like the Far East, but do you have many repressed in your family? And why are they repressed? Of my Siberian relatives, one was repressed. And the fact that he was repressed, we learned only from the "Memorial". They planted him for 5 years under the "law of the spikelets."

Repressed? May be. But he stole something on the collective farm. And this law was adopted then. So all uneducated Siberians, my relatives believed that he was sitting for theft. Then, by the way, he fought and was repeatedly awarded. But this is a different story.

Under the "bloody Stalinist regime", after carrying out collectivization, industrialization and other socialist reforms, no matter how cruel they may be, the peasants returned to social labor. To life in society. When everyone was responsible for everyone and everything for everyone. Rich in the whole village and starving the whole village.

Veteran readers who grew up in the 60s and 70s remember this sense of community. When any woman could shugan for some Skoda and cover her knee with green paint if she fell unsuccessfully. Moreover, this was not only in the villages. People lived in the same way in provincial cities. All children were supervised by all adults. And the adults lived as one family.

Why the idea of ​​a joint struggle is alien to the Europeans 


In the territories that returned to the USSR, all this did not happen. The rigidity, even the cruelty with which collectivization was carried out in the USSR, is alien to the Baltic states, western Belarus and western Ukraine. There collective and state farms were created in a milder way. And at the time of the outbreak of war, most citizens lived as they did before reunification. Farms, manors, cuts. The individual was above the public.

Remember the basic promises of the Nazis when recruiting into waffen-SS units, the police or other units? After all, that was the main thing. They will give you land, they will give you slaves, you will be rich. Indeed, for the sake of this, volunteers went to the SS. The number of enemies of Soviet power among the traitors is negligible. 

So, the conflict of personal and social was one of the main factors of everyone’s personal choice. The Soviets chose a joint struggle with the enemy. Non-Soviet simply could not do this. This is the reason for the lack of partisans in Europe. 

There are two issues that must be addressed. The first is Yugoslavia and the second, a few partisan detachments in some European countries.

Yugoslavia, which paid for the victory over European fascism in our time, deserves great respect and admiration for its struggle. We call military units partisan simply because they operated in the occupied territory. The Yugoslavs themselves called themselves the army. People’s Liberation Army and partisan units of Yugoslavia (NOAU). I will immediately answer the question about the name of the army. She had different names at different times, but she did not change the essence of this.

The word "partisan" in the name of the army is an indicator of the "European character" of Yugoslavia. The fact is that in Europe there were also people for whom private property was alien. And it was these people who were, overwhelmingly, the backbone of those detachments and battle groups that operated in some countries. These were communist internationalists. In Yugoslavia, Tito was such an internationalist. It was he who created the partisan detachments that became part of the NOAU.

We could not leave it unpunished


Readers are accustomed to the fact that at the end of the material I draw some conclusions. Today there will be no such conclusions. Today I use the capabilities of the "Military Review" as an Internet resource. I’ll just let you see the material my son sent me. Special CTVBY report “Khatyn's Elder Sister”. I think this will be enough for conclusions ...

Author:
Photos used:
Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation
189 comments
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  1. NEXUS
    NEXUS 12 May 2020 16: 40 New
    0
    It seems to me the whole thing is in the mentality of the population.

    In the mentality and special spirit ... besides, in the EU there are not so many forests and swamps where you could partisan. Yes, and then the Nazis met many Europeans with flowers, as liberators.
    1. matross
      matross 12 May 2020 16: 53 New
      -6
      Quote: NEXUS
      there are not many forests and swamps in the EU where you could partisan

      There are not so many of them in the EU. In Europe, the 40s were enough. There are mountains too. For example in Greece. However, the Greeks did not leave them.
      1. Ryazan87
        Ryazan87 12 May 2020 17: 11 New
        25
        Those. The People’s Liberation Army of Greece (ELAS) (more than 100 armed people in 1944), which even created a partisan republic in the mountains, didn’t exist in your world? Craiova’s army in Poland is also apparently an ephemeral entity. And Mussolini in Italy, from chagrin, hanged himself, yeah.
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 12 May 2020 17: 41 New
          11
          Quote: Ryazanets87
          Those. People's Liberation Army of Greece (ELAS) (more than 100 armed people in 1944)


          Greek partisans.
          1. carstorm 11
            carstorm 11 12 May 2020 18: 20 New
            +4
            you confuse the partisan movement and individual partisan formations. movement is primarily management. this is the ability to help a regular army in a war.
            1. Octopus
              Octopus 13 May 2020 13: 25 New
              +3
              Quote: carstorm 11
              movement is primarily management. this is the ability to help a regular army in a war.

              Yes.

              Therefore, a pronounced guerrilla movement existed in countries where it could receive significant support from the front line. Like in the USSR, where there was a central government waging a conventional war, and vast occupied territories without their own statehood.

              The help of the regular army is a long and difficult conversation.
          2. The comment was deleted.
        2. Lopatov
          Lopatov 12 May 2020 18: 33 New
          +9
          Quote: Ryazanets87
          Those. People's Liberation Army of Greece (ELAS)

          It's all very, very complicated ...
          Here is one such m-a-a-scarlet question: what if we exclude the formations created by the British USO?

          In fact, the entire "partisan movement" in Europe is Great Britain.
          1. Ryazan87
            Ryazan87 12 May 2020 19: 27 New
            +8
            What is difficult - I agree. A counter question: what if we exclude from the Soviet partisans all the detachments that were under the control of the Soviet command and were supplied from the "mainland"?
            And the encirclement, mentioned in the article, are very relative partisans (in the modern sense of the word) - after all, military men, full-fledged combatants. As, by the way, and the escaped prisoners.
            Of course, there were, so to speak, "independent" formations, but there are a lot of different moments in their activities ... You can also read living memories: https://iremember.ru/memoirs/partizani/

            In principle, a successful and numerous partisan movement can exist only with constant external support. There is a recharge of resources - it will flare up.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 12 May 2020 19: 48 New
              +9
              Quote: Ryazanets87
              Counter question: what if we exclude

              Why exclude? The country is one.

              In addition, I repeat again, in the USSR partisan detachments appeared where the encirclement appeared. Who were in contact with the left underground from the NKVD and party members. See the story behind the Kovpak compound.

              The detachments that were abandoned from the "mainland" and, so to speak, "overgrown with meat" can be counted on one hand.

              Quote: Ryazanets87
              full combatants.

              Partisans are also "full-fledged combatants".
          2. Octopus
            Octopus 13 May 2020 13: 31 New
            +2
            Quote: Spade
            In fact, the entire "partisan movement" in Europe is Great Britain.

            Yes. Britain and the Comintern. More Nazis in the liberated territories, but this issue is poorly studied.

            Two countries had structures that supported the partisan movement (the USS, for example, was incapable of this), and for a long time participated in the war to launch such work (and were not quickly defeated).
        3. matross
          matross 12 May 2020 23: 11 New
          +1
          Quote: Ryazanets87
          People's Liberation Army of Greece (ELAS) (more than 100 armed people in 1944)

          As many as 100 people? Yes, and armed ?! Yes, this is not an army - this is a deadly ARMADA! laughing
          1. Ryazan87
            Ryazan87 13 May 2020 10: 17 New
            +6
            Do not play the fool: more than 100 thousand, of course. Even the fleet was small. Here, of course, I made a mistake in the message, but there’s a lot of information about ELAS on the network, so I don’t need a trololo. By the way, if the Soviet flag was already fastened, the Greek communists (and they were the core of ELAS) could somehow be respected a little.
            1. Octopus
              Octopus 13 May 2020 13: 37 New
              0
              Quote: Ryazanets87
              could the Greek communists (and they were the core of ELAS) somehow respect a little.

              Everything is not easy there.
              Quote: Ryazanets87
              In principle, a successful and numerous partisan movement can exist only with constant external support. There is a recharge of resources - it will flare up.

              You are right.

              In the case of Greece, of course, these were English resources and English cadres. The communists were there, so to speak, infiltrated, the British then did not see anything wrong with that.

              But later, when the Red Army came to the borders of Greece and the opportunity appeared to contact the Greek left, including in the sense of dynamite - then yes, the question is, who is the main partisan and who is the main liberator there?
      2. Insurgent
        Insurgent 12 May 2020 17: 17 New
        +3
        Yugi, remember ...

        A video based on the SFRY film about partisans, accompanied by the song of Italian partisans "Bella ciao (Goodbye, beauty)".

        1. Sklendarka
          Sklendarka 12 May 2020 18: 20 New
          +1
          ... or ,, song of the Yugoslav partisans "
        2. Petrik66
          Petrik66 13 May 2020 13: 44 New
          0
          Again, the Germans have crap with fire preparation. Only stormtroopers from Star Wars can compete with them in squint.
          ..
          1. Insurgent
            Insurgent 13 May 2020 13: 50 New
            +2
            Quote: Petrik66
            Again, the Germans have crap with fire preparation. Only stormtroopers from Star Wars can compete with them in squint.

            And what did you expect from the "reserve battalions", "Galicia" and other "warriors" who were actually thrown into the fight against the partisans in Yugoslavia?

            But you still need to remember that this CINEMA.
      3. Kronos
        Kronos 12 May 2020 19: 47 New
        -2
        In Greece there were 2 power and mass partisan detachments after the USSR.
    2. Pravodel
      Pravodel 12 May 2020 17: 19 New
      +8
      YES, the mentality of the population affects, but is not decisive, if there is a force forcing action.
      During the Second World War, the communists were such a force, and where the communists were not slaughtered during the capture of the country by the Germans, a partisan movement gradually appeared that was in the form of resistance. That is why after the defeat of Germany in Italy, France, there were quite strong communist parties, the liquidation of which was later directed by the CIA. And it succeeded. After the war, the communists in Europe could not be cut out, as, for example, happened in Ukraine, but by the mid 70-80s the communist movement in Europe was liquidated, or remained in a marginal form. This, by the way, is one of the reasons why pind .. we feel so at ease in Europe.
      For reference, the liquidation of the communist movement began during the Second World War, when Stalin, under pressure from the Anglo-Saxons, was forced to dissolve the Comintern. This was one of the conditions for providing assistance.
      1. Vasya17
        Vasya17 12 May 2020 17: 52 New
        +9
        The purpose of the Comintern was to establish a communist regime in other countries - i.e. liquidation of existing states and in their place the foundation of new ones. Do you really think that the Allies would sponsor an organization that openly declared about the fight against them?
        and the Comintern itself by that time had already turned into a huge machine for chewing resources, practically without any benefit, overgrown with officials, sanatoriums, etc., in short, there was no longer any benefit from it
        1. Alf
          Alf 12 May 2020 20: 45 New
          +1
          Quote: Vasya17
          and the Comintern itself by that time had already turned into a huge machine for chewing resources, practically without any benefit, overgrown with officials, sanatoriums, etc., in short, there was no longer any benefit from it

          +
      2. Lopatov
        Lopatov 12 May 2020 18: 35 New
        -2
        Quote: The Truth
        YES, the mentality of the population affects, but is not decisive, if there is a force forcing action.
        During the Second World War, the Communists were such a force,

        laughing
        Actually, "surrounded"
        1. Marine engineer
          Marine engineer 12 May 2020 22: 08 New
          +9
          "Generally, the" encircled "

          The "circle" were different.
          My wife’s grandfather partisan in the Pskov region. He didn’t answer verbally to my inquiries about partisan exploits: “But there’s nothing to tell, son, they were sitting in a swamp, they drove moonshine and they cut people with knives. In winter (1942) the commissars came, established order and discipline (they shot especially violent) and the detachment began to fight. ”
      3. Octopus
        Octopus 13 May 2020 14: 54 New
        0
        Quote: The Truth
        For reference, the liquidation of the communist movement began during the Second World War, when Stalin, under pressure from the Anglo-Saxons, was forced to dissolve the Comintern. This was one of the conditions for providing assistance.

        )))
        Ordinary military trick comrade Stalin. As the war ended, the former members of the dissolved Comintern appeared in the governments of the capitalist countries, not to mention the countries of people's democracies.
        Quote: The Truth
        During the Second World War, the communists were such a force, and where the communists were not slaughtered during the capture of the country by the Germans, a partisan movement gradually appeared that was in the form of resistance.

        This, of course, is nonsense. In no country before the arrival of the Red Army, resistance was communist, or at least exclusively communist. When the right liberators put all the wrong liberators against the wall - then yes.
        Quote: The Truth
        This is precisely why, after the defeat of Germany in Italy, France, there were quite strong communist parties, the liquidation of which was later directed by the CIA

        What interesting news. It turns out that these wonderful people did not interfere with anyone except the CIA.

        By the way. Let me remind you that Comrade P. Togliatti, Italian Comintern, died in Yalta, Comrade. M. Torez, the French Communist Party - on the ship "Lithuania", on the way to the same glorious city.
    3. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 12 May 2020 17: 22 New
      +3
      Quote: NEXUS
      Yes, and then the Nazis met many Europeans with flowers, as liberators.

      Liberators from whom? From what? belay Were these countries "enslaved" by someone? And the local population (France, Holland, Belgium, Austria, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Norway, Denmark, Greece ...) met the Nazis as "liberators from enslavement"? What kind of enslavement? What kind of enslavers?
      1. Sergey Sfiedu
        Sergey Sfiedu 12 May 2020 18: 35 New
        +5
        You will be surprised, but many locals really met the Germans as liberators from Jews, Communists, Social Democrats, homosexuals, and other liberals. There are enough photos and film materials, as well as memoirs. The Germans were already thrashed with might and main in Normandy, and the good Parisians threw stones and beat captured Allied soldiers.
        1. Octopus
          Octopus 13 May 2020 14: 57 New
          0
          Quote: Sergey Sfyedu
          Jews, communists, social democrats, homosexuals and other liberals.

          By many locals, we usually mean the lands of the Reich (Bohemia, Austria) and the Baltic SSR of the 40th year of publication.
          Quote: Sergey Sfyedu
          Good Parisians threw stones and beat captured Allied soldiers.

          Does the occupation regime have local volunteers? Wow, what a surprise.
          1. Sergey Sfiedu
            Sergey Sfiedu 13 May 2020 20: 09 New
            0
            "Many local people usually mean the lands of the Reich (Bohemia, Austria) and the Baltic SSRs of the 40th year of publication" - Yes, there were direct fascist and pro-fascist parties in almost all European countries. Fascist greetings were widespread not only in Germany - there is a video of the British royal family doing this saluting on camera. And not only all sorts of marginals there collaborated with the fascists. Marshal Pétain, for example, is the "Lion of Verdun", a national hero. Or Louis Renault - half of Europe still drives a car named after him.
            1. Octopus
              Octopus 13 May 2020 20: 24 New
              +2
              Quote: Sergey Sfyedu
              many locals really met Germans as liberators from Jews, Communists, Social Democrats, homosexuals, and other liberals.

              Something I don’t remember if Petain, Louis Renault or the English royal family wanted to get rid of homosexuals, liberals and their own government with the help of the Gestapo.
              1. Sergey Sfiedu
                Sergey Sfiedu 13 May 2020 20: 38 New
                0
                Edward VIII's sympathies for the Nazis are well known. Both Pétain and Renaud could well have sat out - but no, they deliberately agreed to cooperate - along the way, they were very impressed by the "new order", when any socialists and liberals there could be squeezed without unnecessary red tape.
                1. Octopus
                  Octopus 13 May 2020 21: 36 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Sergey Sfyedu
                  Edward VIII's sympathies for the Nazis are well known

                  As of September 39th, Mr. Winsdor is a private individual. Concerning cooperation with the Nazis, Mr. Baldwin, a champion of purity of morals, has much more questions.
                  Quote: Sergey Sfyedu
                  And Pétain and Renault could well sit out

                  Peten is the head of state for a minute. Sitting in his position would be strange. And we know about the sins of Renault from people who killed him and robbed him a little.
                2. mmaxx
                  mmaxx 17 May 2020 10: 40 New
                  0
                  There are no sympathies here. Everything that Hitler wrote, said and did, he borrowed everything from the British. Then the times were still normal, sincere. Everything was called by its own names.
      2. lelik613
        lelik613 18 May 2020 05: 31 New
        0
        Uncle Addie freed them from the Chimera Called Conscience. They got the opportunity to do cum-out.
    4. Soviet Union
      Soviet Union 12 May 2020 20: 37 New
      +3
      Forests and swamps ... rubbish.
      If you want .... look for opportunities, do not want to look for excuses.
    5. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 13 May 2020 08: 10 New
      +2
      Quote: NEXUS
      Yes, and then the Nazis met many Europeans with flowers, as liberators.

      I don’t want to say to the author that the logic of Europeans does not fit here, but I agree with NEXUS more. And here about this boy, as if Russian, but not completely Russian.
      Can a civilized society, to which he includes himself, make heroes of bandits? These are such interesting questions from a European in whose blood a piece of Russian blood fermented.
      Here we can agree that the Europeans think like that, but rather they have now taken them out of the way just like chickens in an incubator. Why didn’t anyone think, and the author forgot to say one thing, but what was the name of the German troops occupying Europe, FRIENDS ??? And we write and scream everywhere that we liberated Europe, but here it turns out to be conquered. And who are the Waffen SS divisions where the same Europeans killed, which were tens, if not hundreds of times more than the SS. This is what the Europeans will explain and this former Russian boy. Soviet partisans are bandits, but the Waffen SS are liberators. What can the author answer here.
    6. NordUral
      NordUral 13 May 2020 12: 49 New
      +4
      In Europe, they fought with their own. They came to us to destroy us. And the Soviet people immediately realized this. No NKVD was needed for this.
      And the Russian mentality, and in the war already Soviet.
  2. Blacksmith 55
    Blacksmith 55 12 May 2020 16: 49 New
    11
    Do not think that the partisans were only in the Second World War. During the invasion of Napoleon, there were also partisans. I think Susanin was also partisan to some extent.
    1. Egoza
      Egoza 12 May 2020 17: 43 New
      +2
      Quote: Blacksmith 55
      Do not think that the partisans were only in the Second World War. During the invasion of Napoleon, there were also partisans. I think Susanin was also partisan to some extent.

      So the fact of the matter is that the partisan movement is in our blood. And in the civil war there were partisans. And in Europe ... they have, first of all, "my house is on the edge", and in general, "I will not be touched." And only when the Nazis began to destroy them, then they realized it.
      1. victor50
        victor50 13 May 2020 04: 02 New
        +2
        Quote: Egoza
        And in Europe ... they have, first of all, "my house is on the edge", and in general, "I will not be touched."

        Maybe because they are "civilized", and it is illegal to partisan ?! laughing
    2. Vasya17
      Vasya17 12 May 2020 18: 00 New
      -23
      Susanin is a beautiful fairy tale, a legend for the "education" of patriotism, the peasant did not care which landowner would collect corvee and rent, especially since then, all the nobles spoke French)) and there was not much difference, and maybe there was even a chance that new bar will be relaxed
      1. Ryazan87
        Ryazan87 12 May 2020 19: 30 New
        11
        Especially in 1612 the nobles spoke French, yeah. Vasya, Vasya ...
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 13 May 2020 15: 29 New
          +1
          Quote: Ryazanets87
          Especially in 1612 the nobles spoke French, yeah. Vasya, Vasya ...

          Giggles ... I remembered the "Old Russian elections" from the "Crane Burda". smile
          The master gave a speech to the men for three hours in French, but Grishka Otrepiev won with the program "Barin - for a call!"
          1. Ryazan87
            Ryazan87 13 May 2020 15: 47 New
            +1
            Yes, especially considering that in 1812 the literacy of more than 60% of infantry officers was limited by the ability to read and write in Russian.
      2. Kronos
        Kronos 12 May 2020 19: 49 New
        +1
        No, do not care because aliens robbed even more
      3. victor50
        victor50 13 May 2020 04: 04 New
        0
        Quote: Vasya17
        the peasant did not care which landowner would collect corvée and quitrent,

        There were no peasants in the militia of Minin and Pozharsky ?! belay
    3. Kronos
      Kronos 12 May 2020 19: 48 New
      0
      Of course there were how the French began to rob the peasants more than the local nobles immediately went
      1. victor50
        victor50 13 May 2020 18: 50 New
        0
        Quote: Kronos
        how the French began to rob peasants

        1612 and the French ?! request
        1. Kronos
          Kronos 13 May 2020 18: 52 New
          -1
          He wrote 1812
  3. Courier
    Courier 12 May 2020 16: 52 New
    +5
    When a country is fully occupied, it is difficult to resist.
    The Soviet partisans had the support of the Soviet state. Who were the French or Poles to count on?
    To be objective, the same Poles staged a Warsaw uprising, such that the Germans had to urgently transfer the elite SS divisions to the city.
    1. Alf
      Alf 12 May 2020 20: 53 New
      +4
      Quote: Courier
      the same Poles staged a Warsaw uprising, such that the Germans had to urgently transfer the elite SS divisions to the city.

      Yes, yes, the Germans could not miss such a gift — the whole Craiova Army gathered in one place, there was no need to run after them through the forests.
  4. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 12 May 2020 16: 56 New
    +8
    They (Europeans) still helped to capture prisoners who escaped from concentration camps ..... and the brothers were different. The Czechs riveted weapons, the Norwegians supplied the Wehrmacht with fish. The French are generally the most numerous of the non-Germans in the Wehrmacht
    1. Pivot
      Pivot 12 May 2020 17: 42 New
      +3
      Not the French, but the Alsatians is a territory in the east of France, they still speak German there.
      1. Alf
        Alf 12 May 2020 21: 04 New
        +2
        Quote: Pivot
        Not the French, but the Alsatians is a territory in the east of France, they still speak German there.

        On the same day, the Vichy government issued an official appeal, published in the press, which stated that the NS would pose no obstacles to those Frenchmen who want to "participate in the European struggle against communism." The appeal concerned both volunteers from the occupied zone of France and from the unoccupied zone {35}.

        About only Alsatians there is not a word.
        1. Octopus
          Octopus 13 May 2020 15: 00 New
          0
          Quote: Alf
          About only Alsatians there is not a word.

          Do not understand.

          Was the Vichy government supposed to impede recruitment in the SS?
  5. Avior
    Avior 12 May 2020 16: 56 New
    +8
    Indeed, why partisan detachments spontaneously arose in the USSR almost from the very beginning of the war

    Most of the partisan detachments in the USSR were organized by party bodies and were subordinate to the Central headquarters of the partisan movement.
    The army and the NKVD partisan detachments made up a small part of the partisan movement.
    The central headquarters of the partisan movement at the Headquarters of the Supreme High Command is the central organ of military control of the partisan movement at the Headquarters of the Supreme High Command of the USSR Armed Forces, during the years of World War II.

    Short name - TsShPD at SVGK, TsShPD. When created, it was called the General Staff of the partisan movement at the Headquarters of the Supreme High Command.

    It was created in order to unite the leadership of the partisan movement behind enemy lines and for the further development of this movement. Formed by Decree of the GKO of the USSR No. GKOO-1837ss of May 30, 1942. [1] In order to implement this resolution, the People's Commissariat of Defense of the USSR issued Order No. 00125 of June 16, 1942, "On the Formation of the Main and Regional Headquarters of the Partisan Movement." [2]

    In March 1943, the GPA was abolished, but a month later, on April 17, by Decree of the GKO of the USSR No. 3195ss, it was again restored at the Supreme Command. The Ukrainian headquarters of the partisan movement was withdrawn from submission to the GPA.

    On January 13, 1944, given that most partisan detachments operate on the territory of the Ukrainian and Belorussian SSR, which have their own partisan movement headquarters, the GKO of the USSR, by decision No. 4945ss, disbanded the TsShPD.

    By the same decision, the GKO transferred the leadership of the partisan movement on the still occupied territory of the Central Committee of the Communist Parties of the Republics: USSR, BSSR, ESSR, LATSSR, LSSR, MSSR, the Karelian-Finnish SSR and the Crimean ASSR, and to the regional committees of the Leningrad and Kalinin regions.


    The head of the Central School of Contemporary Art is Panteleimon Kondratievich Ponomarenko, 1st Secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Belarus (1938-1947).
    Before the war, a purely army guerrilla movement was planned, groups were formed, bases were created, but during the Tukhachevsky case they were disbanded, some were tried.
    Details can be found in the memoirs of the main demolitionist of the Red Army, Ilya Starinov, "Soldier of the Century".
    At the beginning of the war, when the partisan detachments were stupid, they formed 4 divisions of the NKVD, but their effectiveness was very low, they selected the wrong people, and in 1942-43 the partisan movement was already formed by the party organs almost from scratch.
    hi
    1. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 12 May 2020 17: 21 New
      +1
      In the Crimean ASSR was a regional committee, the communist parties were only in the union republics.
      1. Avior
        Avior 12 May 2020 17: 27 New
        0
        and on the ground, partisans, as a rule, were led by just the underground party committees.
        On the whole, most partisans were part of the party structure of the partisan movement.
        The military, including Starinov, believed that the partisan movement should be in the form of a relatively small number of army sabotage groups operating in the close rear of German troops strictly at certain points and minimally contact with the civilian population - they believed that so the partisan movement would be higher.
        1. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 12 May 2020 19: 04 New
          +4
          that the partisan movement should be in the form of a relatively small number of army sabotage groups operating in the near rear

          Starinov is wrong here. These are not partisan actions, but the actions of the RDG. In fact, he often makes controversial and even incorrect statements in his memoirs - in particular, that the battle of Moscow could be won only by the RDGs that mined the roads.
          1. Avior
            Avior 12 May 2020 19: 31 New
            +1
            He was a specialist in this matter, worked all his life after the war in the KGB special institution
            That is how the partisan movement before the war was conceived — not constant military operations, but point-by-point sudden active actions, for example, coordinated in time with the troops.
            That is, saboteurs are sitting quietly, but strictly at the time of the offensive, they hold actions in selected areas, paralyzing for a certain time the transport of ammunition and reserves of the enemy to the place of our attack.
            He believed that such coordinated point strikes are more effective than constant sabotage on random roads.
            But I think this is a topic for a separate discussion.
            It’s just that the people don’t know that the forms of guerrilla warfare could be different, and not just the one that actually would be.
            1. Octopus
              Octopus 13 May 2020 15: 05 New
              +2
              Quote: Avior
              He believed that such coordinated point strikes are more effective than constant sabotage on random roads.

              Comrade Starinov thought narrowly and apolitically.

              Yes, the actions of the same Uncle Vasya in Belarus in the 43rd had, in general, zero military significance from the point of view of the same Citadel. But they provoked the terror of the occupation authorities against the local population, which, in turn, compromised the idea of ​​collaboration. From the point of view of the Soviet government, this was extremely important.
              1. Alexey RA
                Alexey RA 13 May 2020 15: 37 New
                +2
                Quote: Octopus
                Comrade Starinov thought narrowly and apolitically.

                He spoke out against the rail war - they say, taking into account the Germans' rail reserves and the speed of railway recovery, it is useless to blow up the rails themselves.
                At the same time, Starinov somehow did not take into account the fact that undermining the echelon was a much more complicated task than undermining the route (EMNIP, Fedorov described measures to counter-diversion the passage of echelons), and for the average partisan detachment of 1943 it was not feasible . In addition, the destruction of the tracks forced the Germans to spend their energy on their restoration and protection, reduced the speed of trains, and sometimes completely stopped moving for a period of half a week to two weeks.
                1. Octopus
                  Octopus 13 May 2020 16: 01 New
                  0
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  and for the average partisan detachment of 1943, poorly feasible.

                  That is, the military significance of such a detachment is zero. Unlike the political one.
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  up to two weeks.

                  If not very necessary.
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  In addition, the destruction of the paths forced the Germans to waste their energy on their restoration and protection,

                  It is not that simple. You have extended "Germans". Like the German Konstantin Avdeevich Smovsky or the German Vasily Andreevich Meleshko.
                  1. Alexey RA
                    Alexey RA 13 May 2020 16: 36 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Octopus
                    That is, the military significance of such a detachment is zero. Unlike the political one.

                    The military significance of such a detachment is nonzero - it cannot destroy the enemy’s railway equipment, but it can delay its movement.
                    Quote: Octopus
                    If not very necessary.

                    You have some kind of extended Germans - with an endless stack of repair crews and remoe trains. smile
                    Quote: Octopus
                    It is not that simple. You have extended "Germans". Like the German Konstantin Avdeevich Smovsky or the German Vasily Andreevich Meleshko.

                    Nope. EMNIP, Fedorov had a cycle of German reaction to railway bombings. The last steps were:
                    - To organize the protection of the tracks by the police and other traitors.
                    - Undermining.
                    - To shoot guards from policemen and other traitors.
                    - Organize the protection of the tracks by forces of German units (or Axis allies).
                    So it all ended just racially faithful guard.
                    1. Octopus
                      Octopus 13 May 2020 16: 50 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Alexey RA
                      but can delay her movement.

                      Do not remember the German whining about the loss of mobility in the East due to railway problems? I do not immediately remember.
                      Quote: Alexey RA
                      You have some extended Germans

                      This is Starinov, as I understand it.
                      Quote: Alexey RA
                      So it all ended just racially faithful guard.

                      Where how.
                      But partly you are right, the activities of the partisans bound the forces of the enemy. The Balkans are indicative here, where as of June 01.06.44, XNUMX German divisions were almost as many as in Italy. However, the effectiveness of such activities requires further consideration.
    2. Lopatov
      Lopatov 12 May 2020 18: 50 New
      +4
      Quote: Avior

      The army and the NKVD partisan detachments made up a small part of the partisan movement.

      Here, for example, an insignificant detachment of Major General Saburov ...
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 12 May 2020 19: 20 New
        +4
        Saburov, this is an encirclement - an NKVD officer, who managed to assemble his own "detachment", and Kovpak, who is generally a rural accountant (albeit with experience of WWI and GV), assembled a detachment, also not sickly. Both the one and the other created precisely partisan detachments and formations, which are quite stable and self-sufficient, at least in terms of products. And the DRG, like the Airborne Forces, are short-term armed volunteer encirclements. This I mean that the partisan movement is one thing, and the DRG is quite another.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 12 May 2020 19: 37 New
          +5
          Quote: Aviator_
          I mean, the partisan movement is one thing, and the DRG is another.

          Do you know how the Sumskog partisan connection began?
          From the fact that the encircled people, led by the paratrooper Sergeant Karpenko, stopped a suspicious grandfather in the forest. Introduced himself as "the commander of the partisan detachment SA Kovpak". Then the Osaviakhimite Rudnev joined this group. With his squad. Repressed commander of the Red Army.

          And here, for example, Fedorov. Also a party functionary. But he commanded the Chernihiv-Volyn partisan formation of the NKVD of the USSR. Naumov. like Saburov- NKVDshnik Korzh- former NKVDshnik at party work

          Everything is much, much more complicated than it seems at first glance.
      2. Avior
        Avior 12 May 2020 19: 35 New
        -2
        Many partisan commanders had ranks, this allowed them to pay a salary.
        Saburov’s unit was subordinate to the party headquarters of the partisan movement
        By personal order of I.V. Stalin, in 1942, Saburov became part of the underground Central Committee of the Communist Party (b) U. Since October 1942 - chief of staff for guiding the partisan movement of the Zhytomyr region, was a member of the Zhytomyr regional committee of the Communist Party (b) U ..

        Although Saburov himself was personally from the NKVD.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 12 May 2020 19: 57 New
          +2
          Quote: Avior
          the party headquarters of the partisan movement

          ?
          "Party headquarters"? Created by order of the People's Commissariat of Defense?
          1. Avior
            Avior 12 May 2020 21: 25 New
            -2
            Term of course unsuccessful
            The partisan movement was led by party bodies at various levels.
            At the top was the Headquarters of the partisan movement, and so on below
            Created by party bodies at the appropriate level.
            You can read more about the system from Starinov, he explains why the military system would be more effective than the party
        2. Alf
          Alf 12 May 2020 21: 15 New
          +1
          Quote: Avior
          salary.

          Salary, salary ...
          1. Avior
            Avior 12 May 2020 22: 30 New
            -1
            Cash allowance strictly speaking. smile
            Laziness was 2 words to type
            and the word salary in relation to the military sounds strange to me
            1. Alf
              Alf 13 May 2020 18: 51 New
              0
              Quote: Avior
              and the word salary in relation to the military sounds strange to me

              Does "salary" sound better?
    3. Lopatov
      Lopatov 12 May 2020 20: 07 New
      +2
      Quote: Avior
      The head of the Central School of Contemporary Art is Panteleimon Kondratievich Ponomarenko, 1st Secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Belarus (1938-1947).

      People's Commissar of Internal Affairs of Ukraine VT Sergienko and "intelligence officer" Colonel Korneev - not in business? Did they get confused under Ponomarenko's feet?
      1. Avior
        Avior 12 May 2020 21: 25 New
        -2
        The head was Ponomarenko
    4. mmaxx
      mmaxx 17 May 2020 10: 42 New
      0
      Only one thing must be understood: it is impossible to drive anyone into the partisans.
  6. alone
    alone 12 May 2020 16: 59 New
    +8
    Well, if you take purely Europe, the author is a little mistaken about the lack of partisan movements .. In Greece, Italy and France there were partisan formations organized and managed by local communist parties .. For example, the Greeks communist detachments were so strong that until 1949 years waged war with the monarchists for socialist Greece ..
    Partisan movements were successful where there was an organizing committee represented by underground regional and regional committees.
    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 12 May 2020 17: 34 New
      +1
      In France and Greece, indeed, there were partisan detachments ... Italy, however, was not occupied at the beginning and was an ally of Germany ... the partisan movement, if it was ... (organized by the Communists ...), is very weak ... Only after Italy’s attempt to break off the alliance with Germany and the occupation of a significant part of the country by German troops, did the partisan movement intensify and intensify, covering large territories ...
    2. Alf
      Alf 12 May 2020 21: 19 New
      +2
      Quote: lonely
      Partisan movements were successful where there was an organizing committee represented by underground regional and regional committees.

      Here! Partisans on the ground were perceived as soldiers, and underground regional and regional committees as representatives of the Soviet Government, and these are different levels. In Belarus there were huge partisan zones where Soviet power was quite open.
  7. APASUS
    APASUS 12 May 2020 17: 08 New
    11
    The author somehow lowered the cruelty of the Germans, to the civilian population how many villages were burned in a place with a population in Europe? How did the Germans behave in France or Belarus.
    1. Avior
      Avior 12 May 2020 17: 19 New
      +3
      When suspected of contacts with partisans, almost the same sad
      Oradour in France, Lidice in the Czech Republic and others are a consequence of the accusation of the population in cooperation with partisans.
      On June 10, Dykman’s battalion surrounded Oradour-sur-Glanne with a tight ring: all residents and those who accidentally ended up in the city and its environs were ordered to gather in the village square to check ID cards. The SS men also arrested six people who did not live in the village, but were just riding bicycles past the village when an SS detachment arrived there.

      Women and children were closed in the church, the village was plundered. Men were divorced from barns and barns, machine guns were installed in advance on the ground.

      According to the stories of the survivors, the SS men opened fire by shooting at the feet of the unfortunate. When the victims could no longer move, the Nazis doused them with fuel and set fire to the barns. Only six managed to escape. One of the runaways was subsequently noticed walking along the road and shot. A total of 190 French men died.

      Then the SS men went to the church and installed an incendiary device there. When it worked, women and children tried to escape through windows and doors, but ran into machine-gun fire. A total of 247 women and 205 children died. Only 47-year-old Marguerite Rufans was lucky to survive. She managed to jump out of the back window of the sacristy, followed by a young woman and a child. All three were shot and two killed on the spot. Rufans crawled to the thickets of peas and hid in them all night. The next morning she was found and saved. About twenty residents fled the village as the SS detachment approached. That night the village was partially destroyed.

      A few days later, survivors were allowed to bury 642 killed villagers who were killed in just a few hours. Adolf Dickman said that the massacre was responsible for the actions of the partisans in nearby Tulle and the abduction of Helmut Kempf.

      https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Массовое_убийство_в_Орадур-сюр-Глан
      1. APASUS
        APASUS 12 May 2020 19: 35 New
        +5
        Quote: Avior
        When suspected of contacts with partisans, almost the same
        Oradour in France, Lidice in the Czech Republic and others are a consequence of the accusation of the population in cooperation with partisans.

        Do you know what the difference is between executions in France (for communication with partisans) and executions of civilians in the countries of the former USSR?
        Heard something about Becke’s plan
        Bakke's plan is dumb. der Backe-Plan is the name of the plan of the political and military leadership of the Third Reich, the purpose of which was to make people starve in the occupied territories of the USSR until 20-30 million people died of starvation. The foodstuffs withdrawn to create hunger were supposed to be transferred to the German occupation forces and the population of Germany. According to historian Christian Gerlach, this plan was seen as the official policy of the authorities and was consistently implemented after the attack on the Soviet Union.
        1. Avior
          Avior 12 May 2020 19: 37 New
          +1
          We seem to have talked about reprisals against civilians for liaising with partisans
          1. APASUS
            APASUS 12 May 2020 19: 53 New
            -1
            Quote: Avior
            We seem to have talked about reprisals against civilians for liaising with partisans

            Yes, right, in France they shot for communication with partisans. In the countries of the former USSR it was enough to be a Jew to be shot, and just a Slav, it was the state policy of Nazi Germany, the destruction of subhuman
            1. Avior
              Avior 12 May 2020 21: 27 New
              +1
              Jews were shot in Europe.
              I think you should not jump from topic to topic, they are all extensive.
              1. APASUS
                APASUS 12 May 2020 21: 46 New
                +2
                Quote: Avior
                Jews were shot in Europe.
                I think you should not jump from topic to topic, they are all extensive.

                In short, according to Hitler, the Europeans were offered to clean and assimilate part. Slavic peoples as inferior were proposed to destroy and use as slaves.
                Quote: Avior
                I think you should not jump from topic to topic, they are all extensive.

                This is not jumping from topic to topic, these are the roots of one tree. The peaceful population of Europe was not destroyed because in the countries of the former USSR

                Do you recognize oppressed Europeans?
                Paris 1940
                1. Avior
                  Avior 12 May 2020 21: 52 New
                  0
                  You forgot, it was a partisan movement.
                  In this regard, the attitude was no different.
                  1. APASUS
                    APASUS 13 May 2020 09: 13 New
                    0
                    Quote: Avior
                    You forgot, it was a partisan movement.
                    In this regard, the attitude was no different.

                    I didn’t forget, many went to partisans, so the choice was between partisans and destruction. In Europe, in France, people even kept their business, they simply re-educated them, albeit sometimes with bias, and destroyed the Slavs
                    1. The comment was deleted.
                    2. Avior
                      Avior 13 May 2020 10: 22 New
                      +1
                      Partisan detachments were created from the first days of the war, when no one knew about the destruction, and Germany itself was a friendly state a week ago.
                      The repressions associated with the partisan movement were everywhere where the partisan movement was present, including in Europe, especially when the local population was connected with the partisans.
                      Where there were a small number of partisan detachments, and repressions were single, where many partisan detachments, repressions were far from individual. It’s just that they don’t write much about it.
                      Here is Greece, for example, where the partisans were not as much as ours, but quite a lot.
                      200 Pervomaites or 200 from Kesariani (Greek 200 της Καισαριανής) - 200 prisoners of the Greek communists, executed on May 1, 1944 in revenge for the murder by the Greek partisans of General Krech and other German officers, during the triple German-Italian-Bulgarian occupation of Greece 1941-1944 years .... 200 imprisoned communists were loaded onto trucks and transported through Athens to the shooting range of the north-eastern suburb of Kesariani ...
                      The executed were loaded onto trucks by the next twenty. The last twenty were loaded onto trucks by the Germans at 10 in the morning. The bodies were transported and buried in the 3rd cemetery of the city, without names. Identification of the remains of the buried took place a year after their release [6].

                      On June 10, 1944, Lieutenant of the 7th SS Panzer Regiment Fritz Laufenbach, received orders to go with the 2nd company from Levadia to Distomo, in order to find partisans on the western slope of Mount Elikon. As a bait, the Germans used 2 mobilized Greek trucks, in which there were SS men disguised as Greek peasants. These trucks traveled a long distance ahead of the convoy. At the same time, the 10th and 11th companies left the city of Amphis. 3 companies met without finding partisans, except for 18 children who were hiding in the shepherds. 6 of the children tried to escape and were shot on the spot. The Germans entered Distomo and terrorizing the inhabitants, they received information that the partisans were in Styri. The 2nd company went there and before Styri was ambushed by partisans (11th company of the 3rd battalion of the 34th regiment of the People's Liberation Army of Greece ELAS. The SS men lost 40 people killed, while the partisans only one ... After the Germans returned to Distomo and, in revenge for their losses, began the massacre of the population, making no exceptions for children, women, or the elderly.The priest was beheaded, the babies were killed, the women were raped, and then killed. The massacre stopped only with the onset of night. The Germans burned all the houses and returned to Levadia. On the way back, the Germans shot everyone who came across them on the road. In total, 228 people were killed in Distomo, including 117 women and 111 men, including 53 children under the age of 16. [1] However, according to a representative of the Red Cross Swiss George Wehrly, who visited Distomo a few days later, the number of people killed in Distomo and the county reached 600 people.

                      during punitive operations against the Greek partisans, who arrived in Greece in July 1943, the mountain division Edelweiss burned the villages of Kali Vrisi, Mazi, Aydonohori, Vasiliko, Kefalovriso on the Greek-Albanian border and completed this series of atrocities by shooting 135 residents and burning the village near the city of Ioannina [5]: 48. ...
                      During a punitive operation developing in the surrounding mountains, on the morning of August 12, a German reconnaissance vehicle, with 2 soldiers from the 98th mountain regiment (German 98. Gebirgsjäger Regiment), accidentally drove into the village, while ELAS partisans entered it for food . ... the German command was informed that the car was ambushed by the partisans [5]: ... At dawn on August 16, the 12th company of the III / 98 regiment overlaid the village from the north, east and south. The order of the company commander, Willy Röser, was to leave no one alive. .... At the entrances to the village the Germans installed machine guns. Immediately after dawn, fire from mortars and machine guns was opened in the village. ... The soldiers threw grenades at home and then killed the survivors, regardless of gender and age.
                      .
                      10-15 people were shot in front of the house where the wedding took place. The newlyweds and another 30 people of their relatives and guests were burned in a two-story house [5]: 50. The belly of the pregnant wife of L. Tsibukis was ripped apart and the fetus was laid next to the murdered [5]: 50. 2 seven-month-old babies of the H. Kokikotsis family were killed by burning gasoline soaked in gasoline in their mouths [5]: 52. ... The Italian Hugo Tori, from the headquarters of the Modena division, who visited the village after the Germans left, describes with horror the picture of a woman with open stomach and fruit next to her, as well as babies pinned by nails on the doors of houses [5]: 53.
                      After the first wave of atrocities, 20 survivors, most of them children, were gathered in the village square and shot. ...
                      The residents who returned to the village the next day found the bodies of 317 dead, including 97 infants and children under 15 years of age and 119 women and 2 priests .... 20 villages of the village died until the last [5]: 52.

                      And there are many tragic moments in which the connection of repressions with the partisan movement is out of the question.
                      In Poland, where there were also quite a lot of partisans, the Germans massively practiced executions of hostages.
                      There was such a terror as a reaction to the actions of partisans, and in other countries, we just know literally about isolated cases
                      Here, for example, the Massacre at Marzabotto in Italy.
                      In response to attacks on German soldiers by partisans and the Resistance from September 29 to October 5, 1944, SS Sturmbannführer Walter Raeder forced a soldier of the 16th SS Panzer Division of the Reichsführer SS to systematically kill hundreds of people in Marzabotto. They also killed numerous residents of neighboring Grizzana Morandi and Monzuno, a region of the Monte Sole massif (part of the Apennine Range in the province of Bologna).
                      .... Some sources report 1830 victims; others estimate 955 people killed. The Monte Sol Peace School Foundation reports about 770 dead. This number is close to the official report of Sturmbannführer Raeder, who reported on the “executions of 728 bandits.” Among the victims, 155 were under 10 years old, 95 were between 10 and 16 years old, 142 were over 60 years old, 454 were men and 316 were women. Five were priests. [1]

                      Who ever wrote about this with us?
                      A clumsy machine translation from English, simply because I did not find it in Russian.
                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marzabotto_massacre
                      The conclusion is very simple - people think that this was not, simply because we practically do not write about it ....
                      hi
                      1. Octopus
                        Octopus 13 May 2020 15: 15 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Avior
                        Where there were a small number of partisan detachments, and repressions were single, where many partisan detachments, repressions were far from individual. It’s just that they don’t write much about it.

                        In general, the idea of ​​a connection between terror and repression against a peaceful people is not considered particularly acceptable. We can come to bad conclusions.
                      2. Avior
                        Avior 13 May 2020 16: 34 New
                        +1
                        There were repressions without any partisans, no one said that it was only because of this.
                        Yes, and repression against civilians, even if associated with partisans, is clearly a war crime.
                        For repressions, including those associated with partisans, the Nazis were tried at the tribunal.
                        But someone raised the question of what kind of repression Europe did not have.
                        And they were.
                        But if you think that talking about it is unacceptable, let's abandon this matter
                      3. Octopus
                        Octopus 13 May 2020 16: 38 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Avior
                        But if you think that talking about it is unacceptable, let's abandon this matter

                        I AM? I don’t think at all. I have absolutely no enthusiasm for partisans, generally any irregulars.
                        Quote: Avior
                        There were repressions without any partisans, no one said that it was only because of this.

                        The author of the article specifically recalled Khatyn.
                      4. Avior
                        Avior 13 May 2020 16: 53 New
                        0
                        It seemed to me that the destruction of Khatyn was just revenge for the attack of the partisans - this is a well-known issue.
                        In the article, in general, about Borki, and not about Khatyn, the author did not specify why there were repressions.
                      5. Octopus
                        Octopus 13 May 2020 17: 09 New
                        +3
                        Quote: Avior
                        In the article, in general, about Borki, and not about Khatyn, the author did not specify why there were repressions.

                        All the same.
                        When the cars came to the middle of the partisan chain, the fighters opened fire. No shots were heard from the cars. In the first car, 49 fascist pilots, two drivers and one of the service workers were destroyed.

                        The special SS team of Dirlewanger was entrusted with the protection of the Mogilev-Bobruisk highway. But an emergency happened - the pilots died and the SS command of the SD with the police was destroyed. Dirlewanger needed to atone. It’s impossible to catch partisans in the forest, and the Nazis used the method of collective responsibility of the inhabitants of neighboring villages for attacking their soldiers. Therefore, with such cruelty, Borki with the surrounding villages were destroyed.

                        Witnesses reported that the punishers of Dirlewanger were dressed in German uniforms, but spoke different languages.

                        https://www.sb.by/articles/tak-pogibla-derevnya.html
        2. Petrik66
          Petrik66 13 May 2020 13: 59 New
          +1
          Don't you see figs in your pockets and inner protest. When the Germans were taken out of Europe to rest near Kursk or Vitebsk, they sighed in relief.
          1. Alf
            Alf 13 May 2020 18: 59 New
            0
            Quote: Petrik66
            When the Germans were taken out of Europe to rest near Kursk or Vitebsk, they sighed in relief.

            Rather the opposite.
            1. Petrik66
              Petrik66 14 May 2020 09: 45 New
              0
              That was sarcasm!!!!!!!!!!!
              1. Alf
                Alf 14 May 2020 18: 35 New
                0
                Quote: Petrik66
                That was sarcasm!!!!!!!!!!!

                You would at least add a smiley face ...
  • Kronos
    Kronos 12 May 2020 19: 50 New
    -1
    That is why it was not in France that they harshly suppressed
    1. Alf
      Alf 12 May 2020 21: 21 New
      +2
      Quote: Kronos
      That is why it was not in France that they harshly suppressed

      And we have not brutally suppressed? Only now the size of the partisan movement is not even comparable.
      1. Kronos
        Kronos 12 May 2020 21: 22 New
        0
        I meant that where there were no partisans, there were not particularly atrocities, unlike the USSR, where in principle the Germans looked at people like cattle
        1. Alf
          Alf 12 May 2020 21: 28 New
          +1
          Quote: Kronos
          I meant that where there were no partisans, there were not particularly atrocities, unlike the USSR, where in principle the Germans looked at people like cattle

          I totally agree.
  • Doccor18
    Doccor18 12 May 2020 17: 13 New
    -1
    Firstly - Czechs, Austrians and Hungarians were not burned alive by whole villages. They even got more work with the advent of the Nazis.
    Orders have gone. Work was in full swing.
    In the majority destroyed only Jews and gypsies.
    Secondly, partisans in all European countries, only, of course, on a scale incomparable with the USSR.
    These were small groups of patriots.
    1. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 12 May 2020 17: 23 New
      0
      The Hungarians, unlike the Czechs and Austrians, maintained their statehood during the war years.
      1. Avior
        Avior 12 May 2020 17: 44 New
        +1
        Hungary has long been an ally of Germany, and Austria was generally considered part of Germany.
        1. Sergej1972
          Sergej1972 12 May 2020 20: 11 New
          +1
          I know this) I mean that the Germans of the village at their satellite could not burn by definition.
          1. Avior
            Avior 12 May 2020 20: 31 New
            +2
            At my childhood, I had a book by Dobri Dzhurov, Hero of the Soviet Union and the future Minister of Defense of Bulgaria, about the partisan movement in Bulgaria, another German allied.
            It struck me that the partisans, at the sight of the policemen, posed as tourists traveling in the mountains.
            1. Sergej1972
              Sergej1972 12 May 2020 20: 34 New
              +1
              Who knows, maybe some policemen also pretended to believe in this?)
              1. Avior
                Avior 12 May 2020 20: 36 New
                0
                Some might not believe
                I don’t remember the details of the past years, but the fact of tourists in the mountains crashed into war in memory
            2. pytar
              pytar 14 May 2020 14: 35 New
              +2
              At my childhood, I had a book by Dobri Dzhurov, Hero of the Soviet Union and the future Minister of Defense of Bulgaria, about the partisan movement in Bulgaria, another German allied.
              It struck me that the partisans, at the sight of the policemen, posed as tourists traveling in the mountains.

              Dear Sergey hi there is nothing surprising in these cases. The fact is that the Bulgarian Tourism Union was established on August 27-28, 1895. It was the most massive NGO. Among its members there were many sympathizers and assistants to the partisans. They supplied detachments with eds, weapons, and false identity documents. Alpine barriers were built, supposedly for tourists, the tourists were climbers and climbers, while these barriers were used by guerrillas. The police watched him, occasionally dug up individuals, but all the same illegal activity continued. It must be borne in mind that Bulgaria, the predominant mountain country! Groups of tourists have always walked in the mountains, even during wars. Mining, became partisan buzz. Partisan pretended to be shepherds, lumberjacks or tourists sometimes. Among the police, the gendarmerie, there were also accomplices to the partisans. Even among the highest generals of the sun! The confrontation between pro-communist partisans and monarchists has been tightened over time. It came to terrible atrocities, like burning houses suspected of aiding, cutting off the head, killing the so-called 6 tero hawks / children aged 7-13 years /. These are the tragic pages of our history, let them never be repeated. hi
      2. Vasya17
        Vasya17 12 May 2020 18: 20 New
        +1
        Hungarians were generally allies of Nazi Germany and their troops also fought on the Eastern Front and carried police functions in the occupied territories
    2. Avior
      Avior 12 May 2020 17: 31 New
      +3
      burned and villages.
      On June 9, 1942, German police units (the Gestapo, SD and OrPo under the command of SS special investigative officers and the commander of Sipo in Prague) surrounded Lidice with the help of the Czech gendarmerie Lidice and blocked all roads to the village because of the suspicion that participants could be hiding in the village attempt on Heydrich. At night, all the inhabitants of Lidice were driven together [4]. On June 10, the entire male population over 15 years old (172 people) was shot, women (195 people) were sent to the Ravensbrück concentration camp (52 of them died in the camp). Of 98 children, 13 children were left under the age of one year and suitable for Germanization. The remaining children, along with children from Lezhaki, were killed in a gas chamber in a death camp near Chelmno [5]. All the buildings of the village were burned and razed to the ground. By the morning of June 11, the village of Lidice was only a bare ashes. A few days later the village of Lezaki near Pardubice was destroyed; all the men of this village were also killed.

      Lidice after the fascist pogrom
      1. Sergey Sfiedu
        Sergey Sfiedu 12 May 2020 18: 41 New
        +3
        The scale is incomparable. Oradur, Lidice - isolated examples. IMHO, the matter, of course, is not only in the mentality, but also in the attitude of the Germans towards the local population - the Germans considered the Europeans to be racially close, and without special need they did not show cruelty (except for Jews and Communists), in Russia they simply provoked people to resistance.
        1. Avior
          Avior 12 May 2020 18: 59 New
          +1
          In Europe, the scale of the partisan movement was much smaller, and its interaction with the civilian population was also much smaller, therefore, the facts of mass destruction for communication with the partisans were also much smaller
          But one does not need to consider the fascists humanists.
          Where they saw the connection of the population with the partisans, they did not hesitate in mass repressions - they could have burned the village and often practiced hostage taking from civilians, who were shot if there were attacks on the Germans.
          In Greece and elsewhere, this was not uncommon.
          1. Ryazan87
            Ryazan87 12 May 2020 19: 35 New
            +1
            The Germans did not hesitate about the hostages in World War I, moreover, in Belgium. And there are no Nazis, and a Western European country, and people were allowed to flow in packs ..
          2. Kronos
            Kronos 12 May 2020 19: 52 New
            0
            The point is not in humanism but in ideology + Hitler ordered to behave gently.
        2. victor50
          victor50 13 May 2020 04: 24 New
          0
          Quote: Sergey Sfyedu
          in Russia, by their cruelty to subhuman people, they simply provoked people to resist

          And the partisan movement of 1812, how can this be explained?
          1. Ryazan87
            Ryazan87 13 May 2020 10: 34 New
            0
            And you read about 1812 something. There is six months of brutal mutual massacre. Yes, without any particular ideological background, but, say, the population of the Smolensk province regained its population about 50 years after the 12th year ..
            1. victor50
              victor50 13 May 2020 18: 44 New
              0
              Quote: Ryazanets87
              And you read about 1812 something.

              What arrogance! Read it yourself. hi
              1. Sergey Sfiedu
                Sergey Sfiedu 13 May 2020 20: 19 New
                0
                But by the way - the truth. There are eyewitness records - the peasants took up the pitchforks not because of some kind of patriotism, but because of the atrocities of Napoleon's soldiers. Not only do you need to feed your landowner, but here the Hranzuz also take the latter away, and kill those who resist. The simple-minded Kostians did not like this treatment at all.
                1. victor50
                  victor50 14 May 2020 02: 42 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Sergey Sfyedu
                  But by the way - the truth. There are eyewitness accounts - the peasants took up the pitchfork not because of any patriotism there, but because of the atrocities of Napolenovsky soldiers.

                  Yeah. And so with the flowers met ...
    3. NEXUS
      NEXUS 12 May 2020 20: 49 New
      +1
      Quote: Doccor18
      Firstly - Czechs, Austrians and Hungarians

      But by direct order, the Magyars should not be taken prisoner, the entire Hungarian army was buried near Voronezh. And finished off near Budapest.
    4. Alf
      Alf 12 May 2020 21: 22 New
      +1
      Quote: Doccor18
      Firstly - Czechs, Austrians and Hungarians were not burned alive by whole villages. They even got more work with the advent of the Nazis.
      Orders have gone. Work was in full swing.
      In the majority destroyed only Jews and gypsies.
      Secondly, partisans in all European countries, only, of course, on a scale incomparable with the USSR.
      These were small groups of patriots.

      1. Sergey Sfiedu
        Sergey Sfiedu 13 May 2020 20: 46 New
        0
        "During the Slovak national uprising, German troops suffered significant losses - 10 350 soldiers killed, 100 guns and mortars, 2 armored trains, 30 armored cars and armored vehicles, over 1000 vehicles" (VIKI).
        1. Alf
          Alf 13 May 2020 20: 58 New
          +1
          Quote: Sergey Sfyedu
          "During the Slovak national uprising, German troops suffered significant losses - 10 350 soldiers killed, 100 guns and mortars, 2 armored trains, 30 armored cars and armored vehicles, over 1000 vehicles" (VIKI).

          Now give the numbers, how many guns, tanks and planes were fired in Czechoslovakia from the 41st to the 45th years and to which front and under whose command it all went. For reference. Not the worst tank destroyer Hetzer in Czechoslovakia was produced until May 8, 1945, inclusive. Resistance ...
          All our so-called "friends" are very skilled at changing shoes in a jump.
  • bober1982
    bober1982 12 May 2020 17: 25 New
    +6
    The partisan movement in Yugoslavia had nothing to do with the communist internationalists, they were not the backbone of the fighting detachments, and could not be them, as the article says.
    Until 1943, everyone fought in Yugoslavia itself, against everyone - Serbs against Croats, Serbs and Croats against Bosnians, Bosnians themselves created SS divisions, and fought against Serbs and Croats, and almost no one fought against the Germans.
    The anti-Hitler coalition initially relied on Serb Mikhailovich, and since 1943, on the Croatian Tito, who managed to create an army that acted against the Nazi troops.
  • Strashila
    Strashila 12 May 2020 17: 28 New
    +1
    And why should he be in Europe, which has changed for a simple layman after the capture by the Germans, but not what has not changed by and large.
    1. Alf
      Alf 12 May 2020 21: 24 New
      +1
      Quote: Strashila
      And why should he be in Europe, which has changed for a simple layman after the capture by the Germans, but not what has not changed by and large.

      It is enough to watch the old comedy Big Walk. The film is a film, but there, in the background, civic life in France "languishing from the hardships of occupation" is very well shown.
  • Cowbra
    Cowbra 12 May 2020 17: 33 New
    +3
    Two factors. The first factor - Holland and France - are not swamps of Belarus and not forests of the Middle lane, where you can go for a week and not meet a single person) A theater for partisans is suitable, and in the Netherlands for 5 kilometers there are two cities and three villages, there are no troops, but the police raid will catch everyone at once. The Germans didn’t even climb into Switzerland - mountains. You can’t catch there.
    Well, the mentality. Belarusians Germans were clearly enemies, like Russians. Those. it’s clear that they didn’t burn it three times - they will burn it on the fourth. And the rest of the Germans who?

    Socially close.
    1. Kronos
      Kronos 12 May 2020 19: 53 New
      +1
      In Switzerland, bathhouses + trade in goods valuable to Germans
  • knn54
    knn54 12 May 2020 17: 39 New
    +3
    Alexander, thank you. I also believed that the struggle of the personal and the public was an important reason.
    But the main thing is that Hitler promised to save Europe from the Bolshevik plague.
    Therefore, slavery and genocide "shone" only for us. The new order was alien to us.
    But the Europeans do not care who they work for, their master or German.
    And not least Russian Ukrainians. Belarusians lived between nomadic Asia and Europe. The struggle for freedom (from those and from others) was in our blood.
    I would like to give an example of Spain, which also suffered from the Arab conquerors.
    Therefore, against Napoleon, ONLY there, as in Russia, a people war broke out.
    Well, the Civil War, which Franco won thanks to the efforts of ALL of Europe.
  • boris epstein
    boris epstein 12 May 2020 17: 39 New
    +5
    It’s just that in Russia, in Russia, in the USSR, the patriotism of the people was realized through the social activity of the people and resistance to the invader. This is the partisan movement. 1612, Ivan Susanin, sacrificing himself, leads a detachment of Polish invaders into the swamp, Prince Pozharsky and the merchant Minin gather a militia to drive the Poles out of the Kremlin. 1812. Units of peasants spontaneously organized in the territory occupied by the French. And only later, detachments of the regular army (Denis Davydov, Seslavin) were abandoned to the rear of the French. In the civil war, the divisions of Shchors and Kotovsky began with partisan detachments. The same thing happened in the Far East. Blucher created the FER army in K from orderly and trained partisan detachments. People did not expect that someone would come and release them. In the West (with the exception of Yugoslavia, Greece and the Garibaldians of Italy), regular troops were waiting. The West interprets the partisans as bandits, allegedly because they are fighting not in uniform and without insignia of a regular army. And what does that change? At first, during the Great Patriotic War, partisan detachments were organized by secretaries of city committees, district committees and regional committees of the CPSU (B.) -Fyodorov, Saburov, Zaslonov, ordinary communist S. A. Kovpak. Then they began to throw groups of the NKVD (detachment D N Medvedev). Then the partisan movement was centralized — they created the Headquarters of the partisan movement (P Ponomarenko), began to supply the detachments with radio communications, weapons, explosives, and transported children and wounded by airplanes.
    1. Avior
      Avior 12 May 2020 18: 00 New
      +1
      Kovpak, Sidor Artemievich
      Since 1937 - Chairman of the Putivl City Executive Committee of the Sumy Region of the Ukrainian SSR.

      not so completely simple, of course .....
    2. Kronos
      Kronos 12 May 2020 19: 54 New
      -3
      No, it’s not a matter of social activity, but the fact that the invaders began to commit atrocities
  • really
    really 12 May 2020 17: 46 New
    +6
    It is a pity that many articles began to appear, completely unprepared, reflecting the thoughts of the author, but directly opposite to the facts of history.
  • Leo_59
    Leo_59 12 May 2020 18: 16 New
    0
    This theme is delicate and delicate.
    Why They didn’t have is not so important to me. It is important how we had it. Here's what you need to know.
    I recommend to see:
    https://www.novgorod-tv.ru/teleproekty/50285-zhit-i-pomnit.html
  • Undecim
    Undecim 12 May 2020 18: 25 New
    +9
    Readers are accustomed to the fact that at the end of the material I draw some conclusions. Today there will be no such conclusions.
    Yes, the conclusion here is simple - the author simply lied about the memory of all those inhabitants of Europe who died in the ranks of the Resistance Movement, that is, partisans, which, according to the author, were not.
    You can discuss the scale, shape, efficiency. But to declare "the absence of partisans in Europe" is, to put it very mildly, to tell a lie. What for? For what purpose?
    1. Octopus
      Octopus 13 May 2020 15: 19 New
      +2
      Quote: Undecim
      What for? For what purpose?

      The author says it directly.

      Socialism is good; capitalism is bad.

      Everything good (from the point of view of the author, the partisan movement is certainly good) from socialism.
  • Virus-free crown
    Virus-free crown 12 May 2020 18: 29 New
    +6
    I will tell you about my tragicomic experience of communication with the descendant of "true Aryans" bully
    Back in the days of the USSR - the late one - when previously inaccessible materials about the Second World War began to print, I already had good math skills, and I didn’t understand why the Germans did NOT sew winter clothes in 1941? ... belay By all my calculations and calculations, even if the Germans could manage to push the Reich border to the Arkhangelsk-Astrakhan line, then all of his troops would barely be enough to control the occupied territories and concentrate the main part of the troops on the border, waiting for a retaliatory strike from THE USSR... hi

    ... About 10 years ago, a descendant of "true Aryans" came to our company on a business trip - the guy was 30 years old - a normal sociable - he treats Russians very well drinks

    Well, in the evening we are with him drinks drinks drinks so good and asked him the same question)))
    "What eyes he had !!!" (c) from anecdote laughing
    Until the morning he tried to prove to me that if the Germans had taken Moscow in 1941, then the war would have ended, because we, the USSR, would have been OBLIGED to "put our paws up" - and I proved to him that Moscow was given to Napoleon in 1812 - but this did NOT cancel Russia's victory in the end)))

    In general, they have a Western psychology - they bent you - you become a person in a pose and don’t blather ...

    And we have a pyschology such as in this anecdote soldier

    The Americans surrounded the height in the jungle, where the Vietnamese partisans were hiding. Shout:
    - Vietnamese, give up!
    In response, a cry:
    - The Vietnamese do not give up! Konovalenko, shell!
    1. Ua3qhp
      Ua3qhp 13 May 2020 20: 25 New
      0
      "and I tried to prove to him that Moscow was given to Napoleon in 1812 - but this did NOT cancel Russia's victory in the end)))"
      In 1812, Moscow was not the capital of Russia. Why there Napoleon popped at all unclear. Then the war went like this - captured the enemy capital means Victory.
      1. Virus-free crown
        Virus-free crown 13 May 2020 20: 37 New
        0
        Quote: Ua3qhp
        "and I tried to prove to him that Moscow was given to Napoleon in 1812 - but this did NOT cancel Russia's victory in the end)))"
        In 1812, Moscow was not the capital of Russia. Why there Napoleon popped at all unclear. Then the war went like this - captured the enemy capital means Victory.

        Tek-s ... I repeat again))) in the West even in 1941 it was in my head - I captured Moscow - it means victory)))
        and I explained to him that the Russians never give up - feel the difference;)
        1. Ua3qhp
          Ua3qhp 13 May 2020 22: 01 New
          0
          "that Russians never give up" This is self-evident.
          The example may be unsuccessful, but the Germans in our history do not understand, for them it will do.
          Here, as an example, 1612 is more relevant, but the Germans do not know about it.
          1. Virus-free crown
            Virus-free crown 13 May 2020 22: 12 New
            0
            Quote: Ua3qhp
            "that Russians never give up" This is self-evident.
            The example may be unsuccessful, but the Germans in our history do not understand, for them it will do.
            Here, as an example, 1612 is more relevant, but the Germans do not know about it.

            I'm not even talking about the Germans - I'm talking about the West as a whole))
            1. Ua3qhp
              Ua3qhp 14 May 2020 07: 58 New
              0
              So in general they are Germans. Then they are divided into Germans, Franks, etc. smile
  • Ryaruav
    Ryaruav 12 May 2020 18: 43 New
    +5
    at the end of the goblin’s videos, there’s a book and a video reconstruction of the 1947 trial of Germans mainly from the Feljandarmeria for atrocities in the north-west of the USSR, it’s not worth the faint of heart, and I recommend it to everyone else especially young for viewing or reading, after that I just want to strangle Kolya from urengoy and that whole delegation
  • veritas
    veritas 12 May 2020 19: 09 New
    +1
    Why in Europe there was practically no partisan movement


    Europeans are "sewn" differently. In general, they all have fascist manners, but at the same time they do not digest each other, the French have always hated the Germans, the British, the French, and so on. But fascism itself is understandable for them. This is one of the reasons. The other is that they are self-centered and selfish and are not ready to sacrifice themselves for the sake of the state, only for the sake of the family, and their families did not suffer much, the fascists in Europe were not as cruel as in Russia.
  • cniza
    cniza 12 May 2020 19: 32 New
    -2
    Why in Europe there was practically no partisan movement


    So they almost all fought with us on the side of Hitler, therefore there wasn’t ...
  • kostas
    kostas 12 May 2020 19: 37 New
    +5
    More than one hundred thousand partisans, the National Liberation Front of Greece of the most massive resistance movement in all of Europe, gave a worthy rebuff to the invaders throughout the country, on the sea and on land and on the islands, hundreds of destroyed villages, thousands of shot civilians, the country lost 10% of the total population, and some who did not see the Greeks who had gone to the mountains. MatRoss you are a provocateur, you know that there are mountains in Greece, and you certainly know that there are forests that burned during the military operations of 1940-1949.
  • smaug78
    smaug78 12 May 2020 19: 46 New
    0
    Yes, because there were no forests of this size, etc., the population was much more urbanized .. And the Germans did not set the task of exterminating the Europeans ... And in a completely conquered country it is much more difficult to organize it. And here they again threw a cheers conspiracy thesis ...
  • Keyser soze
    Keyser soze 12 May 2020 19: 50 New
    +2
    Yes, come the author and find a forest in Europe where you can hide .... now I go to our mountains, but every 5-10 km. there is a village, a city and roads one on top of the other. The gendarmerie will come and catch you in five minutes, and will shoot you on the sixth, which happened regularly.

    The second - there were partisans in Europe where the countries were occupied by the Germans. Greece, Yugoslavia, well, in Poland I don’t know how it was ... and that’s it. And in other countries, life flowed normally - from what fright to take the forest?

    Thirdly, who should go into the woods, if the Communists in Europe - one, two and miscalculated. They will blow up something, then they will be shot and all the debt (this is how they acted in our country, I don’t know in other countries).
    1. samarin1969
      samarin1969 12 May 2020 20: 39 New
      +7
      In Crimea, forests and mountains have a small area, crossed by roads. Almost all of this "partisan land" was covered with garrisons of "noise", Romanian and German units. From above, regular flights and bombing of the camps. Betrayal forced to take tough measures of "internal security". Many partisans died in battle and from hunger. The bases were looted, weapons and food were obtained by military operations.
      But at the same time, thousands (!!!) of people voluntarily went to partisans and underground workers from 1941 to 1944. They perished in the thousands, and all the same, they went to death, to the struggle. Several hundred / thousand Crimean partisans inflicted significant damage on the enemy and helped to relieve Crimea relatively easily in April 1944.

      In most European countries, there was no particular reason or fighting spirit to fight. The French and Polish armies simply "disbanded". Françoise Sagan, through the lips of her character, whined that “I’m tired of everything, someone would come and free us. Russians or Americans, it’s all the same” ... But this irritation of the French did not translate into something serious.
  • Sniper Amateur
    Sniper Amateur 12 May 2020 20: 04 New
    +7
    Why in Europe there was practically no partisan movement

    Because it
    It was.

    Poland, Czechoslovakia (in the territory of modern Slovakia and Transcarpathia), Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Albania, continental Greece, Italy, France ... And these are only those countries in which it has become either massive, or at least large-scale in scale (sorry per taut) of the country ...
  • Shadow
    Shadow 12 May 2020 20: 20 New
    -1
    The difference is in the very view of the Nazis on Western and Eastern Europe, on the Romanesque peoples and on the Slavs.
    If the former were given the opportunity to live the way they lived before: with state power, with law, with the police, with the same way of life, then the latter got the fate of the inhabitants of the Nazi "Wild West".
  • eklmn
    eklmn 12 May 2020 20: 41 New
    +2
    From the article:
    “This is a typical representative of the“ democratic world ”(prohibited in the Russian Federation, swearing. ”
  • yasvet
    yasvet 12 May 2020 20: 55 New
    +5
    But to declare "the absence of partisans in Europe" is, to put it very mildly, to tell a lie.

    The partisan movement is part of the anti-fascist Resistance Movement from:
    Yugoslavia, Greece, Albania, Poland, France, Belgium, Denmark, Bulgaria, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway, Romania.

    In Poland, the total number of Soviet citizens who fought in 90 Soviet or mixed Soviet-Polish partisan units and groups was 20 thousand.

    In Czechoslovakia, a total of 3 thousand Soviet partisans fought, in Yugoslavia more than 6 thousand people.

    In France, at the beginning of 1944, there were up to 40 partisan detachments and almost as many groups in which up to 4 thousand Soviet citizens fought.

    In the partisan detachments of Italy, 5 Soviet citizens participated in the fight against fascism.

    Soviet patriots also fought in the Netherlands (800 people), Belgium (800 people), Norway (100 people), Bulgaria (120 people), Greece (300 people) and other countries.
  • Vitaly Tsymbal
    Vitaly Tsymbal 12 May 2020 21: 11 New
    +2
    Alexander, the material is not very bad, but in many ways I disagree with you. Namely, the understanding of the word partisan in Russian culture is perceived a little differently than in Western culture. First of all, it should be noted that the word partisan is in the Italian and French languages ​​(from these countries it came to Russia). So, partisan - in these languages ​​is translated as - a supporter of any party (!!!) or a political force leading an armed struggle, so it is perceived in the West even now. In Russia, the word changed its meaning during the Patriotic War of 1812, when they began to call that not the supporters of any political group, but a self-organizing group of civilians to resist the aggressor. In the USSR, the concept of partisans began to be perceived as an indicator of the positive movement of the people against the White Guards and interventionists. A "red partisan" or popular (analogy with the war of 12) appeared - a propaganda technique based on the axiom "the people and the party are one", but which played an important role during the Second World War. Now about the partisan movements in the west. There, resistance was called the unification of various political groupings (that is, a political compromise for the period of the presence of a common enemy), but we had a popular movement that gained strength in response to the punitive actions of the fascists, the communists in this movement took on the role of leaders and organizers. We had one party, and the European resistance was led and organized by different political parties .... This is what you had to tell your interlocutor about.
  • Operator
    Operator 12 May 2020 21: 50 New
    -2
    Everything is much simpler - in the east of Europe, the Nazis pursued a policy of extermination and enslavement of the local population, and in the west, a policy of assimilation.

    Therefore, such a different back reaction (guerrillas and collaborators, respectively).
  • Jack O'Neill
    Jack O'Neill 12 May 2020 23: 08 New
    +1
    Why in Europe there was practically no partisan movement

    Oh yeah, rewrite the story! Neither in France, nor in Greece, nor in Poland, there were partisans, and if they were, then quite a bit, finally a bit like that.
    However, one should not be surprised at such articles. The funny thing is that the author of this article, as well as those who support him, will beat his chest with a heel when someone is "rewriting history."
    1. Glory1974
      Glory1974 13 May 2020 15: 46 New
      +2
      No, there were partisans in France. Only for some reason there were more Frenchmen in the German army than in resistance.
      1. Sector
        Sector 13 May 2020 15: 55 New
        0
        Quote: glory1974
        No, there were partisans in France. Only for some reason there were more Frenchmen in the German army than in resistance.

        When the German Surrender Act was signed, I remember the German field marshal contemptuously cast a glance at the French delegation and contemptuously expressed .. "Are these also winners?"
        And after all, he correctly pinned these and other "now winners" already .. soldier
  • Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 13 May 2020 01: 56 New
    0
    Everything is much simpler, although the mentality factor is also present.
    1) European residents are much less accustomed to violence than ours - I am now talking about the inhabitants of France / Czechoslovakia / Netherlands, etc. Before the eyes of the majority of the active population, revolutions did not happen, blood did not flow, and human life was objectively worth more than in countries with a long history of the suppression of revolutions and civil wars.
    2) The religious component of the inhabitants of these countries was not hindered for years and did not try to control as it happened in the USSR / Germany. So the shepherds grazed their flock in the spirit of the covenants, so to speak.
    3) It must be understood that in European cities the population density was very significant, which, together with the philistine mentality and law-abiding petty bourgeois, complicated the secrecy of partisan activity. In the countryside, the villagers were not driven into organized herds like we had - moreover, in general, they were very wealthy people who were not prone to the risk of nerds, I would even say.
    4) In Europe, the Germans spoiled less - less agri the population of the occupied countries (which are discussed above) compared with the USSR.
    5) It is worth noting that many Frenchmen had a very great fear of large-scale destruction and senseless sacrifices, which they had seen enough of during WW1. As the saying goes, they had no desire to "repeat" - they knew quite well how methodically and cruelly the Germans would deal with the problem.
    6) Czechoslovakia was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire in BB1 and resp. fought on the side of Germany-Austria. Hungary. In a sense, the continuation of that confrontation still definitely wandered in the minds of society, even if it was not recognized.
    7) Finally, perhaps not so obvious point - in pre-war Europe there was, let's say, some kind of economic stagnation, and the Germans gladly loaded up enterprises with work - so a certain question of personal interest also had a place to be. Until bombs fell on their heads, of course. Or when they began to steal to Germany. Then, of course, it ceased to be profitable.
    1. Knell wardenheart
      Knell wardenheart 13 May 2020 02: 04 New
      0
      I would also like to add a moment - one should not think that a certain spherical European man in a vacuum is a kind of uncle who has a "guts for partisans." As a rule, partisans are not from a good life. If milk eggs are waiting for you at home and the last chicken was not taken by the Hans, if the gallows are not abused in your city, and somewhere on the outskirts your neighbors are not shot, finally, if you saw these same Germans like dirt before the war, but did not see before first time in the magazine "Crocodile" - definitely will not pull heroism too much. Most.
      And vice versa - if you don’t have more than nichrome, half of your wife’s relatives were burned in a neighboring village, and the last fruits of your wretched collective economy will be collected by some kind of "barbaric" dudes and will leave into the sunset, putting the most stupid and evil face as a policeman - a bonus to the creation of guerrilla warfare will be very solid. Circumstances ...
  • Shuttle
    Shuttle 13 May 2020 03: 41 New
    +1
    Being determines consciousness.
    The Soviet had a collective being, as the author correctly noted. And therefore, in the consciousness of the majority, the superiority of the public over the private, personal prevailed.
    And being is how a person lives, what provides for his life, continuation of himself. In the USSR, this became a fundamentally new thing for the world - public ownership of the means of production. Who owns them and shares the results of labor on them. In the USSR, the proletariat owned these basic means of production. The proletariat, as a consequence of this fact, was power, i.e. by the state.
    The Europeans did not have this.
    1. victor50
      victor50 13 May 2020 04: 40 New
      +2
      Quote: Shuttle
      Being determines consciousness.
      The Soviet had a collective being, as the author correctly noted. And therefore, in the consciousness of the majority, the superiority of the public over the private, personal prevailed.
      And being is how a person lives, what provides for his life, continuation of himself. In the USSR, this became a fundamentally new thing for the world - public ownership of the means of production. Who owns them and shares the results of labor on them. In the USSR, the proletariat owned these basic means of production. The proletariat, as a consequence of this fact, was power, i.e. by the state.
      The Europeans did not have this.

      Dushmanov in Afghanistan explain the same reasons? Or the partisan movement of 1812? The severity of the occupiers or leniency is not the main factor affecting the scale of resistance. Apparently, such is still the mentality of the people.
      1. Glory1974
        Glory1974 13 May 2020 15: 53 New
        0
        The severity of the occupiers or leniency is not the main factor affecting the scale of resistance. Apparently, such is still the mentality of the people.

        The mentality of course plays a role. But it must be considered in conjunction.
        Dushmanov in Afghanistan explain the same reasons?

        If they weren’t supported by the United States, they would have ended very quickly. In Europe there wasn’t much to support. In the USSR there was a headquarters of the partisan movement, about 100 thousand troops were thrown behind enemy lines and organized detachments, there were centralized deliveries of weapons and medicines to evacuate the wounded. was not allowed to drift.
        But all this became possible only when the people realized that they had come to kill him, and not to release him.
        1. victor50
          victor50 13 May 2020 18: 48 New
          0
          Quote: glory1974
          If the US did not support them, they would end very quickly.

          Resistance they started BEFORE US support (and not only).
          Quote: glory1974
          In Europe, there was especially no one to support.

          United Kingdom. It seems that the Greek (or Yugoslav) partisans are all dressed in English uniforms. Ours did not even dream of such a thing. External support will be, if there is a desire to resist. Not the other way around.
    2. Ryazan87
      Ryazan87 13 May 2020 19: 55 New
      0
      Collective consciousness and communal forms of existence were inherent in Europeans no less. And they had a peasant community, and in the cities there were craft associations, guilds and corporations, where the common interest very strictly prevailed over the personal one. It is simply impossible to exist at a certain technical level. Why did the peasants live in a community? Because they had primitive equipment and methods of land use. To just not starve to death, constant joint hard work was needed. It’s just that in Russia the processes of community disintegration have dragged on pretty much + climatic conditions. Where the climate is favorable, there all this community has instantly collapsed, see the same Little Russia.
      public ownership of the means of production. Who owns them and shares the results of labor on them. In the USSR, the proletariat owned these basic means of production.

      Could you please explain by example how the Soviet proletariat shared the results of its work? How did minority shareholders get dividends?
      The proletariat, as a consequence of this fact, was power, i.e. by the state.

      The state was actually a party that duplicated and controlled every state body and had an ideological monopoly. I would not risk identifying the party of the Bolsheviks and the proletariat)
  • VicktorVR
    VicktorVR 13 May 2020 06: 26 New
    +1
    We are now being told propaganda all this ... Yes, the propaganda was, but without soil it was useless, as the situation on the part of the Germans showed - there were few recruited traitors.

    My opinion is that during the Soviet period the people felt themselves to be the Master of the country. Everything around was really "mine". Corresponding and worked as for themselves, and defended the whole country as their home. What can be the attitude to someone who came to your house with dirty boots, breaking down the door in order to take away everything of value that is there, kill part of your relatives, make part of slaves, drive you out to live in a booth?
  • Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich
    Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich 13 May 2020 09: 19 New
    0
    Quote: The Truth
    YES, the mentality of the population affects, but is not decisive, if there is a force forcing action.

    Well, yes, of course, but the Communist Party was, of course, the force forcing action in the case under consideration. Well, the NKVD agents and so on and on and on and on and on ...
    However, something is not sticking here.
    The phenomenon of the partisan movement showed itself in all its glory back in the war of 1812 !!! Then there were no communists, no NKVD, no collectivization, no collective farms, and the broadest partisan movement, later called the People’s War, was.
    I believe that the phenomenon of the partisan movement in the Russian Empire and the USSR stems precisely from the mentality of the Russian People.
    Everything else is "a force that compels action," the wise leadership of the Communist Party, the role of the NKVD, and so on, are just attempts to join the rising wave of popular anger ...
  • BAI
    BAI 13 May 2020 09: 37 New
    -2
    Why in Europe there was practically no partisan movement

    Because Europe fought on the side of Hitler.
  • faterdom
    faterdom 13 May 2020 13: 53 New
    +2
    The Yugoslavs, with their unexpectedly angry resistance, postponed the start of Barbarossa by a month or a month and a half. This helped us a lot, the summer for the Germans ended quickly, the tasks that they set for themselves were not fulfilled, and the autumn mud, cold and then frost still played on our side, they interfere with the advance more than defending, especially since by the winter Germany at first was not ready for war at all. No equipment, no fuels and lubricants, and much more.
    So we have something to thank the Yugoslavs, and the Serbs, and the Croats (not obsolete, of course, but the same Tito, and he was not the only one).
    As for the partisans, as such, Napoleon at one time was faced with the fact that the European powers easily accepted his victory over them, often quite sincerely helping him with everything that was rich - people, horses, weapons, food. Like, where do you go - he is now the chief, such an order ...
    But in Spain - guerilla, evil, cruel, not by the rules. And this is extremely unpleasant for the French. Active patriotism, though highly supported by Great Britain, and the Spanish elite, is not from scratch ...
    True, in comparison with what Bonopart got in Russia, it was flowers.
    The completely unsafe rear throughout the campaign, supply is one huge problem, the entire disappearing units of the Great Army are a nightmare that was not expected. And this partisan movement was not supported from the outside, not even from the inside very much, not all landowners liked the serfs leaving the partisans and the possible punishment from the French for their personal well-being. Well, yes, in some way the prototype of future operations of the NKVD is Dennis Davydov (part-time hussar and poet).
    There is probably something emotional here, deep. We endure our authorities with difficulty and with great distrust (be they Aleksey Mikhailovich, Sofia-Frederica, or Nikita Sergeevich Ali Boris Nikolaevich ...)
    And then some non-Russian custodians, or Germans with Romanians .... They walk, they command, they direct the ordnung. We look closely at ourselves: there is no question - this is wrong! This must be corrected! We must kill everyone in order to at least live as before. This is genetically, this is the mass subconscious - otherwise we won’t survive, they will destroy us all! We have such a thousand-year experience, obra (Avars), Khazars, Pechenegs (do not be remembered by night), the Mongols, Nazi religious orders - this is a plague, this is destruction, we must resist, because we came to kill anyway!
    This is how we differ from our kindred Czechs, who since the time of the Hussite wars have become strongly "Germanized".
    1. akunin
      akunin 13 May 2020 15: 42 New
      0
      Quote: faterdom
      Pechenegs (don't be remembered by night)

      standings +100500 laughing
    2. dinos
      dinos 13 May 2020 20: 15 New
      +2
      The Yugoslav army surrendered on April 17, 1941 (the Germans attacked Greece and Yugoslavia on April 6, 1941), and the island of Crete fell on May 31, 41 - this is where the Nazis stayed for almost two months before June 22.
  • Oyo Sarkazmi
    Oyo Sarkazmi 13 May 2020 14: 43 New
    +1
    Mentality-mentality ... Creatures with COLONIAL upbringing speak of the partisan movement as criminal. White sahibs. And any armed resistance to colonial authorities and colonization is criminal. Be you even Gandhi, even Kovpak.
    The white sahib must fight with the proud representatives of the upper class. If the government loses, millions or even a billion are deprived of all rights. If there was no central government, like the American Indians, the rights to their lands passed to the white sahibs in a declarative manner. Any resistance is criminal.
    This continues now - the white sahibs decide that the government is illegitimate - and the people are deprived of the right to self-defense. It can be napalm, and dioxin, and carpet bombing.
  • akunin
    akunin 13 May 2020 15: 33 New
    +1
    There are two issues that must be addressed. The first is Yugoslavia and the second, a few partisan detachments in some European countries.
    somehow they forgot about Albania, if I am not mistaken, then it was also good with the partisans.
    population mentality
    I agree, because we do not like evil people and aliens with their truth (and this is good). The people had to survive constantly, rely only on themselves.
  • aglet
    aglet 13 May 2020 19: 10 New
    +1
    Quote: Ryazanets87
    By the way, if they had fastened the Soviet flag, they could respect the Greek Communists

    like the British who eventually shot them?
  • aglet
    aglet 13 May 2020 19: 11 New
    +1
    Quote: Sniper Amateur
    France..

    yes, France, how did we forget about her. according to the recollections of the Americans, the French were dissatisfied with their landing, because they broke their entire business with the Germans, and they fought so, yes
  • itis
    itis 13 May 2020 21: 40 New
    +1
    the word of the partisans is not Belarusian of course, but the Latin partigiano. in Italy, partisans were very specific and former partisans were in senior positions in the country's leadership until the eighties
  • iouris
    iouris 13 May 2020 21: 45 New
    0
    It is necessary to clearly name and know the states in which the partisan movement was. It was not enough to ask the question: "why did not German workers overthrow the Nazi regime, which attacked the world's first state of workers and peasants?"
  • kyznets
    kyznets 14 May 2020 03: 50 New
    0
    My grandfather earned a medal "Partisan of the Great Patriotic War", and my uncle was partisan from 42 to 44 years old. Then, after his release, he fought in the ranks of the Red Army, returned from the war as an invalid of the 1st group and a medal "For Courage". And there were a lot of people like my relatives in the district. The detachment was precisely spontaneous, not the NKVD and not party nomenclature. These are Western Belarus, Brest region. There is no need for one size fits all, and more repressions are brought here.
  • Irina M
    Irina M 14 May 2020 10: 08 New
    0
    Belarus suffered terribly from the Nazis during the war. And where does this video start? From the holiday. At first I thought that I had heard wrong and that the youth’s dances were taking place on June 14, 1941. I listened attentively no, everything is correct, on June 14, 1942. ????????????
  • 1536
    1536 14 May 2020 13: 32 New
    0
    Why is there no resistance in Europe today, for example, to the American occupation forces stationed in Western Europe since 1945, and in Eastern Europe since 1991? It seems that foreign troops, large garrisons, occupy a considerable territory, all of this should have caused opposition, disagreement. No, no. I do not know if the Americans pay taxes to the treasury of the occupied countries for the presence of their troops (something I very much doubt about that), maybe they give jobs to local residents, even in terms of prostitution, but the fact remains: Europeans love that American troops are stationed on their territory, they like to be occupied. In addition, automatic machine guns along the perimeter of fences enclosing military bases, and other preventive measures, already of a legislative nature, will certainly make this love deep and strong, like heat, wind and cold. The danger is that as soon as the Americans whistle, this whole bilingual pack will again rush to Russia to rob and kill, but feel like a "free man".
    Today, on the day of the creation of the Warsaw Pact organization (which would have turned 65), a warning sounds especially relevant to those who still consider the withdrawal of Soviet and Russian troops from Germany and Central Europe an achievement. It was not an achievement, it was a terrible mistake for our country and our people, committed by the leadership of the country, which certainly would never have gone to any partisans.
    1. pytar
      pytar 14 May 2020 16: 00 New
      0
      Hi Eugene! hi I will tell my version, without a claim to the first instance bully : Today in Europe there is no resistance! Protests periodically arise, meetings are discontented by groups, but they do not express the views of the majority of the population. And why? Probably because, the inhabitants of Europe do not feel themselves occupied! There is no feeling that the American army is what is stopping them from doing it or that it would interfere in the life of their countries! Moreover, many look at the presence of American troops as a guarantee of security! I personally have lived half my life during the time of socialism. We did not have Soviet troops. For all that, the painful feeling was constantly present that the country was governed from the outside, that someone, through his constant stooges in power, constantly determines to us what is possible and what cannot be done. This social system itself was introduced from the outside, with the power of weapons. Socialism was good or bad, each evaluates for itself. But the majority felt - this is not ours, the hug was somehow stifling ... sad
    2. Alf
      Alf 14 May 2020 18: 41 New
      0
      Quote: 1536
      it was a terrible mistake for our country and our people, committed by the leadership of the country, which certainly would never have gone to any partisans.

      Art 58 of the Criminal Code of the USSR would qualify these "mistakes" in a slightly different way ... Everyone passing through these "mistakes" would then be discharged either a very long vacation for the state account in places with an ideal, albeit somewhat cool, climate, or would be ordered to hug the wall in a short corridor.
  • aglet
    aglet 14 May 2020 13: 46 New
    0
    Quote: Doccor18
    they were small groups of patriots

    they wrote Hitler-4mo on the fences, spat on the Germans in coffee before serving it and collected tanks for the Germans in black overalls, as a sign of mourning for the Russian soldiers who would kill these tanks. not only the Czechs so actively resisted, and the French as well as the given, but the whole enslaved Europe, this movement received a special swing on May 6,7 and 8, it’s direct, it has grown a hundred times
  • Awaz
    Awaz 18 May 2020 18: 21 New
    -1
    There was no resistance in Europe because the population was quite comfortable living under the Germans. Yes, and the Germans did not particularly terrorize any French or Dutch. Even Jews from these territories were not exterminated as in Ukraine or Poland, for example ...
    And there are quite a few cases when the backbone of resistance, without any help from outside or at the head, in Europe became Russians (well, or Soviet citizens).
    You will not believe it, but even in Egypt there was a partisan detachment consisting of Soviet citizens. By the way, they made a very serious contribution to the fact that the British won there ..
    It's all about the mentality and no excuses about the forest or financing have no role. If you wanted to fight, you would fight. Probably not very much and they needed. Perhaps under Hitler it was even more satisfying.
    1. Petrik66
      Petrik66 18 May 2020 19: 49 New
      +1
      About Egypt, you can read more. Well, I read about the Gestapo in Syria and Egypt in the 50s, but about this = the first time ..
      1. Awaz
        Awaz 19 May 2020 06: 06 New
        0
        Well, at one time the Nazis sent a group of Soviet prisoners of war to Africa. For which it is not clear, but they know better. At some point, these captured Russians came to the British. I don’t remember now whether they themselves were freed or their Angchians rescued somewhere. But so they freed themselves.
        Soviet soldiers asked for service to the British and it turned out that a sabotage detachment was created from them, which eventually captured the last working German (or Italian) airfield in Egypt and completely and completely paralyzed any supplies to support the Italians remaining in Africa , which led to their final defeat.
        Honestly, I read this story a very long time ago and forgot something, but the fact of the participation of a sabotage partisan detachment from Soviet prisoners of war in Africa is a reality.
  • Whose Whose
    Whose Whose 18 May 2020 21: 46 New
    -1
    And I would suggest remembering 1812: Russian peasants took up axes and went into the forests to partisan, attacking carts, etc. That for the Napoleonic military, who were not only French, was perceived as barbarism and an uncivilized way of waging war. Soldiers and European inhabitants, accustomed to wars in Europe and the victor's right to plunder the defeated cities, historically considered war to be an occupation for warriors. And for the civilian population it is already good if the winners do not kill everyone and do not plunder everything. Over time, the war took on more and more civilized forms, the treatment of the civilian population was humanized, but the general attitude remained. It was also during the Second World War. And now that young man with a European upbringing demonstrated it. Therefore, in European armies it was customary to fight not "to the last drop of blood", but at a certain moment to consider their military duty completely fulfilled, and with a clear conscience to surrender in a civilized manner.