Military Review

Turkey abandons US Stinger MANPADS in favor of its PorSav

37
Turkey abandons US Stinger MANPADS in favor of its PorSav

The Turkish army refuses portable anti-aircraft systems of American production. We are talking about modifications to the FIM-92 Stinger. These MANPADS in Turkey are manufactured under an American license at the Roketsan factory.


Now the “Stingers” in the troops will be gradually replaced by Turkish-made man-portable air defense systems. These are PorSav systems (Portatif Savunma), which mass production has begun in Turkey.

PorSav - MANPADS, which was created in cooperation with the aforementioned Roketsan and Aselsan company. The man-portable air defense missile system is positioned by the manufacturer as a low-altitude system. A missile is capable of hitting targets at an altitude of up to 4 km. Moreover, the range is not more than 6 km. PorSav, as stated, takes into account the technologies used by Stinger and HİSAR.

The homing head of the new Turkish MANPADS - Imager Infrared (IIR) instead of the IR Seeker Head. Allegedly, missiles with such a seeker are "very difficult to fool with traditional countermeasures aviation". It is noted that against them false targets in the form of heat traps become practically useless.

The manufacturer believes that such MANPADS will increase the effectiveness of army air defense. In particular, they plan to arm the Turkish naval forces.
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  1. svp67
    svp67 11 May 2020 11: 43 New
    +2
    This is after the Turks were unable to hit our planes in Idlib with the Stingers ... Well, well ...
    1. Maz
      Maz 11 May 2020 11: 59 New
      +2
      Quote: svp67
      This is after the Turks were unable to hit our planes in Idlib with the Stingers ... Well, well ...

      February 3, 2018 Su-25, pilot Major Roman Filipov, Syria. Plane shot down MANPADS from the ground in the region of Serakiba. What, again, throw caps? How are you tired of the turbopatriots. Oh well. You would be thrust into the trench under the mortar shelling once, in order to decrease your arrogance and turn on your brains.
      Since the start of Russia's military operation in Syria, according to official figures, 44 Russian soldiers have died.

      During the operation, the Russian aerospace forces lost two transport and three attack helicopters, two Su-24 bombers and a Su-25 attack aircraft. In addition, at the end of 2016, during an expedition to the Syrian coast of the Admiral Kuznetsov aircraft carrier, accidents occurred with the participation of two fighters - the MiG-29 and Su-33 (aircraft were lost when landing).

      On December 31, 2017, a Mi-15 helicopter crashed 24 km from the Hama airport in Syria. As a result of a hard landing, both pilots died, the helicopter's flight technician survived. The Russian military department said that the cause of the disaster was a technical malfunction.

      On October 10, 2017, at the Khmeimim airbase, the Su-24 bomber crashed on takeoff. Crew members, pilot Yuri Medvedkov and navigator Yuri Kopylov, died. According to preliminary data from the RF Ministry of Defense, a technical malfunction could become the cause of the disaster.


      1. alone
        alone 11 May 2020 12: 13 New
        -3
        Quote: Maz
        How are you tired of the turbopatriots. Oh well. You would be thrust into the trench under the mortar shelling once, in order to decrease your arrogance and turn on your brains.

        I think even this will not help ..
        And about the mortar shelling ... We had such a saying: "Even God begins to pray when he comes under mortar fire."
      2. svp67
        svp67 11 May 2020 12: 39 New
        +8
        Quote: Maz
        You would be thrust into the trench under the mortar shelling once, in order to decrease your arrogance and turn on your brains.

        I am a patriot in my ancestral land, and you are a patriot of WHAT land? Promised? For 27 years of service in the army, everything was enough for me and if I need to, I'll go ... Good luck to you, in defending the "promised land"
        And on account of the miss, so I mean here are the episodes of 2020 that occurred in the sky of Idlib, when our planes fired from MANPADS from Turkish checkpoints ... this time UNSUCCESSFULLY
      3. Ros 56
        Ros 56 11 May 2020 13: 07 New
        +1
        And when was the war without loss? All men are adults and know where they are going. In the 30s, they also perished in both Spain and Mongolia. And always, almost all over the world, ours ran with machine guns, even so many not beloved head of Rosneft Sechin and naturally he was not alone.
      4. venik
        venik 11 May 2020 15: 36 New
        -1
        Quote: Maz
        What, again, throw caps? How are you tired of the turbopatriots.

        Quote: Maz
        During the operation, the Russian aerospace forces lost two transport and three attack helicopters, two Su-24 bombers and a Su-25 attack aircraft. In addition, at the end of 2016, during an expedition to the Syrian coast of the Admiral Kuznetsov aircraft carrier, accidents occurred involving two fighters - the MiG-29 and Su-33 (aircraft were lost when landing)

        ========
        In fact, for more than 4.5 years of operation in Syria, 15 aircraft were lost: 7 helicopters (2 - "non-combat" losses, equipment failure or piloting errors) and 8 aircraft (4 - non-combat losses). This is for 4.5 years of combat operation! A lot of? A lot of! Even - 1 - A LOT. But it must be borne in mind that only in the first THREE years, the Aerospace Forces performed more 39 thousands (!) fighting sorties (how many today - I don’t know, I guess - somewhere around 50 thousand). And it turns out that the losses (total - combat and non-combat) amounted to 1 car for more than 3 000 sorties! And this is with extremely intense combat work! And how many others have lost, and not only in wartime, but also in peacetime ??
    2. Sky strike fighter
      Sky strike fighter 11 May 2020 12: 42 New
      +2
      Quote: svp67
      This is after the Turks were unable to hit our planes in Idlib with the Stingers ... Well, well ...


      Not that our air defense, thoroughly thinned the ranks of Turkish UAVs in Syria and Libya.
      Russian air defense systems destroyed more than half of all Turkish drones fired over the years.

      In less than a year, Soviet and Russian air defense systems, and we are talking about such complexes as Pantsir-S, Buk, Kvadrat and Osa, destroyed more than a hundred Turkish unmanned aerial vehicles Bayraktar TB2 - this is more than that , which is currently in service with Turkey. The stock of drones accumulated by the Turkish military over the course of several years diverged “thanks” to Russian weapons in only six months.


      Thus, during the use of Bayraktar TB2 unmanned aerial vehicles by the Turkish military, their losses exceeded a hundred units, while a few days ago it became known that Turkey has only 107 drones in service, which means that about half of all drones only Russian air defense systems were consumed, and not to mention the fact that Libyan military aviation several times to the ground destroyed hangars with Turkish drones at Mitig Airport.

      https://avia.pro/news/iz-za-rossiyskih-pvo-turciya-poteryala-bolshe-bespilotnikov-chem-u-neyo-seychas-sostoit-na
      1. Oquzyurd
        Oquzyurd 11 May 2020 13: 44 New
        0
        "while a few days ago it became known that Turkey now has only 107 drones in service," This is 107 units. in the sun. +6 pcs. was in the Gendarmerie + 3 units two days ago from the Baikar plant were handed over to the gendarmerie forces. + 6 units were sold to Tunisia (Anka-S), + 6 units to Ukraine, + 12 units to Qatar, + about 20 units. to Libya. All this is in the internet. They have really combat aircraft, carrying a rocket of drones under their wings in the amount of 87 pieces. The rest is for reconnaissance.
    3. TermNachTer
      TermNachTer 11 May 2020 17: 53 New
      0
      What spare parts are they going to produce the shaitan pipe from? Does Turkey make everything you need?
      1. Oquzyurd
        Oquzyurd 11 May 2020 18: 53 New
        -1
        In recent years, the Turks have made great strides in the development and production of Hisar air defense systems. We have learned how to make launch systems and rockets (Roketsan), locators, communications, smart guidance heads, optics and control unit software (Aselsan) ourselves. Now it’s easy for them to create a portable PorSav from its components.
        1. TermNachTer
          TermNachTer 12 May 2020 17: 53 New
          0
          Vague doubts torment me. Not so simple. Which plant in Turkey produces light - heat sensitive matrices for homing heads?
          1. Oquzyurd
            Oquzyurd 12 May 2020 20: 03 New
            -1
            "light and heat sensitive matrices for homing heads" They call this element a little differently - "goruntuleyici arayici baslik" and "goruntuleyici kizil otesi gudumlu baslik" for other rocket, for example, Bozdogan air-to-air. But, there is no detailed story and other information. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDHosNdwP10&t=282s
            1. TermNachTer
              TermNachTer 12 May 2020 20: 20 New
              0
              It may have been expressed clumsily, but the meaning is clear. Such matrices are produced in only a few countries and I have not heard about Turkey.
              1. Oquzyurd
                Oquzyurd 12 May 2020 20: 31 New
                -1
                We have always heard about Turkey - "tomatoes" and "tourism". It turned out that they are also engaged in advanced weapons.
                1. TermNachTer
                  TermNachTer 12 May 2020 20: 56 New
                  0
                  So far, I have not seen any serious advanced technologies in them. UAVs and those are made using imported parts.
                  1. Oquzyurd
                    Oquzyurd 12 May 2020 21: 40 New
                    -1
                    Maybe they don’t create it from scratch, but they have the initiative, knowledge of the existing trending technologies and the possibility of production and use. For example, just 15 years ago they produced 15-20% of weapons and supplies for the needs of the VS. And that was mostly primitive (in the technological sense) ammunition, shells, etc. Now, 70% of everything they need is produced by themselves, not depending on others. The remaining 30% is mainly connected with combat aircraft, which they still buy. In UAVs and other devices, you can use imported parts, they do this all over the world. but, at home, to produce what is under sanction risk, if suddenly something. The Turks in this sense have secured themselves.
                    1. TermNachTer
                      TermNachTer 13 May 2020 19: 53 New
                      0
                      The remaining 30% are just those critical technologies, without which the remaining 70% is simply not needed.
  2. rocket757
    rocket757 11 May 2020 11: 45 New
    +1
    Everything is very logical and certainly cost-effective.
    For TTX, this, as stated, is quite adequate.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Oquzyurd
      Oquzyurd 11 May 2020 12: 37 New
      +2
      I listened to the performance characteristics in Turkish. It is said that the search head of the rocket fixes and aims at the general picture of the target, and does not "pay attention" to any trompe l'oeil in flight.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 11 May 2020 13: 47 New
        +2
        Everything is fine. The more powerful, productive, on-board / control computer, the more target images can be crammed into it! A missile, as it becomes smarter, it’s harder to fool it!
        There is a limit to everything, of course .... they will create / improve methods of aiming at the target, and immediately countermeasures will be created!
        Eternal "competition" hit - dodged!
    3. Oquzyurd
      Oquzyurd 11 May 2020 12: 49 New
      +1
      The Turks stated that in recent years the United States has created many problems in the supply of even these rocket to Turkey. They did not take into account that the Turks themselves can produce better and cheaper. Roketsan and Aselsan are developing at an amazing pace, some miracles. For the United States, not expected from "tomato "countries, all this.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 11 May 2020 13: 50 New
        +1
        Nothing goes on forever, as someone wants to. Maybe you should come to visit minke whales!
    4. TermNachTer
      TermNachTer 11 May 2020 17: 55 New
      -1
      You can write any numbers on a piece of paper - it will endure everything. Where did the performance characteristics come at the level of the latest MANPADS? What parts will they be assembled from? We must understand the mattresses banned the supply of new MANPADS, so they decided to switch to their own.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 11 May 2020 18: 15 New
        +1
        Components can be purchased, and the rest is a matter of remuneration of hired specialists.
        The Yankees are not the only ones who "burn pots", the more Turkish producers have freedom of maneuver and choice! Nobody forbade them to buy that sho.
        By the way, they themselves learned to do a lot and this is a fact!
        I do not claim that they got a super super wunderwafer, but at the average level of competence they learned how to do it.
        1. TermNachTer
          TermNachTer 12 May 2020 17: 55 New
          +1
          Some components are subject to all sorts of prohibitions, such as military or dual-use products. If we do not produce it ourselves, then the situation is very possible that we bought it today, and tomorrow “Uncle Sam” didn’t allow it. Moreover, it is not profitable for mattress makers, their regular customer leaves.
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 12 May 2020 18: 19 New
            0
            Limitations are and will be, but they find options to get around or replace. The matter with them has already gone, how successful it will be, they themselves will figure it out themselves.
  3. gabonskijfront
    gabonskijfront 11 May 2020 11: 47 New
    0
    Anything that violates uniformity in NATO, whether goal-setting, strategy, weapons, etc., leads to its dissolution. It's like, Annushka spilled oil, which will lead to the death of Berlioz.
  4. alone
    alone 11 May 2020 12: 15 New
    +4
    Well, right .. If you can produce the same thing, with the same performance characteristics, why buy it from someone ..
    Something Aselsan is a noble company .. well done, well. 30 years ago they didn’t even produce cartridges .. and now 70% of the weapons are produced by ourselves
  5. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 11 May 2020 12: 30 New
    +1
    Why not if your performance characteristics are not worse than American ones. And the money for its military-industrial complex and, as it were, the prestige of its armed forces at the level. But again, the Americans will be offended by the Turks, but these are already their internal problems.
  6. Pavel57
    Pavel57 11 May 2020 12: 38 New
    +2
    Import substitution in Turkish.
  7. knn54
    knn54 11 May 2020 12: 41 New
    0
    What will the comrades from Israel say about the confrontation with their C-MUSIC system?
    As far as I understand the resulting image, the processor compares the image with the "typical" target stored in memory.
    Lasers suggest themselves, but there are many nuances - all the same, the dimensions and speed of the missile require high guidance accuracy and laser power, especially if on the seeker. in front of the matrix, there is a "filter".
  8. Avior
    Avior 11 May 2020 12: 50 New
    +3
    From the text it can be understood that something is a Turkish modification of the Singer, in which the point bispectral GOS was replaced by a matrix
    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 11 May 2020 13: 22 New
      +3
      I also realized that that "vague" phrase most likely means that the "heat detector" seeker (aiming at a thermal "spot") was replaced with a thermal imaging seeker (aiming at a thermal "image").
  9. Junior Private
    Junior Private 11 May 2020 16: 33 New
    0
    Quote: venik
    But it must be taken into account that only in the first THREE years the videoconferencing system committed more in Syria 39 thousands (!) fighting departures

    You would cut sturgeon b.
    1. really
      really 11 May 2020 19: 28 New
      +1
      You noticed that among storytellers, especially fishermen, their arms are extended according to the story. lol but I often met such a figure, it looks like a high-ranking fisherman
  10. Sarkazm
    Sarkazm 11 May 2020 19: 50 New
    +1
    It is an expected and pragmatic solution.
    Firstly, licensed production is not a one-time payment and purchase of technology in the bud, every PU and rocket released, kindly pay Uncle Sam.
    Secondly, the Turks are increasing not only production in the interests of their own armed forces, but also arms exports. Export of licensed weapons or using third-country production units is essentially impossible without the consent of the government of the country of origin. The Turks have already stifled attempts to export self-propelled guns Firtin, light attack helicopter Attack, etc. At the same time, export contracts for the supply of ships, wheeled armored personnel carriers and a medium tank showed that the products of the Turkish military-industrial complex are quite competitive.

    In addition to a portable MANPADS with a missile with GOS, the Turks are working on the creation of MANPADS similar to the Swedish MANPADS RBS-70 with a laser guidance system.
  11. bars1
    bars1 11 May 2020 23: 41 New
    0
    And the GOS then the "Turk" is perfect than our Willow ...