Military Review

I'll turn the calendar over ... Ahead is the year 1913?

138

“... for the good of a large part of the herd, a small one will burn, but this is not a“ tragedy ”, it’s just the price of the matter. Of course, it would be nice to do without such tough measures; but if that happened, they should understand their own: it means that this is the decision made by colleagues with higher levels of tolerance. "

Burkem Al Atomi. The Punisher.


Hello dear readers! This article is the third part. stories, which began with the publication of an open letter from the Angara Psychiatric Hospital. We, the medical workers, didn’t care what they were doing with healthcare in our country. We decided not to stay away from those processes that could lead to dire consequences for everyone in the near future.

So, the response from IOPND from 29.04.2020 was sent to the trade union "Action". The answer is voluminous, the person who wrote it clearly knows how to do it. A professional of its kind. I will try to focus on the most important and important for all of us.

Let me remind you that the team was primarily concerned about the reduction in the bed capacity and the reduction in the hospitalization time for patients with acute psychoses. They pointed out the fallacy of our views, because

“The reorganization was developed taking into account world experience, since in countries with an effective healthcare system 70% of patients really solve their health problems in clinics, and only 30% in hospitals.”

Yes, the author is right, there is such a world experience. Deinstitutionalization of Psychiatry - The process of reforming the psychiatric service, which began in several Western countries in the 50s of the XX century. It consists in a large-scale reduction in the number of psychiatric beds and psychiatric hospitals with the parallel development of various forms of community-based care for mentally ill patients discharged from psychiatric hospitals (Wikipedia).

Great! Only in this case it is said about the development of community-based forms of care. What are these forms? For example, the emergence of alternative services of assistance at the place of residence, and not just “dumping” patients into the clinic and the care of relatives. Relatives who: a) often cannot accept and understand the mental illness of a loved one; b) sometimes they themselves eke out a miserable existence or so.

Aw! And where are we, social services of the Russian Federation? As correctly noted by the Deputy Minister of Health of the Irkutsk region:

"... you need to take an example from the social protection authorities, which have already reduced all their institutions."

By the way, in the West, which our official almost prays for, they have recently grabbed their heads. For example, in Italy, where “psychiatric beds have been successfully reduced by 100%,” the number of people suffering from mental disorders without a fixed place of residence has increased dramatically. Gentlemen, our climate does not look like Italian. What result do you achieve by letting them out at our average annual temperatures? In Italy, in the end, they realized that something needs to be done. AND? But there are no specialists. There are no doctors, nurses, nurses.

Well, what do we care about pasta masters and pizza founders! Let us turn our eyes to the USA. A country from which people with “good faces” take their breath away in the goiter and the heart muscle melts. The Psychiatric Times magazine, in an article on A Dearth of Psychiatric Beds, writes:

"Today, the shortage of psychiatric beds in the United States is a serious problem. Emergency rooms are overwhelmed by patients with acute mental disorders, some expect beds for up to a month. The pressure on existing beds is so high that they are discharged prematurely, often have a relapse or become homeless or go to jail. "

Well, God bless them, with the Americans. They are not a decree for us, yet we have our own “world experience”.

WHO published a report in Russian on World Health Statistics 2013. Sorry, but I didn’t find anything newer. Perhaps some radical changes have occurred in 7 years, but for now we will rely on what we have. So,

“The general conclusion when considering these data, of course, is that the development of the psychiatric service is well correlated with the level of economic development of countries.”

Switzerland ranks first in the number of psychiatrists: 4,10 per 10.000 population. First place in the number of psychiatric beds: Japan: 27,8 per 10.000 population. What is Russia? By the first indicator: 19th place, and by the second: 9th. It was in 2013, and now it’s much less. True, everything is sad in the USA: 35th and 46th place, respectively. It’s just that this country is in many respects strong, but only the lazy one didn’t really go through the hegemonic health care system. The darkness is there with medicine. But for us they are the flagship, we want, "that everything is like in America"!

And therefore, our official has been actively engaged in optimization / reorganization. I will quote from the answer of the IOPS:

“... the Minister of Health of the Russian Federation Veronika Skvortsova pays repeated attention to the need for reorganization:“ Redistributing the load from hospitals to polyclinics will allow to refuse hospitalization of patients only for examination, freeing up beds for those who really need in-patient treatment. Measures to reduce beds in metropolitan and regional hospitals are being carried out as part of a program to modernize Russian health care ”

(September 26, 2013.)

The source is also not new. But if they can, then why shouldn't I?

But something new appeared. First, V. Skvortsova left the ministerial post, and then Deputy Prime Minister Tatyana Golikova on the air of the program “Moscow. Kremlin. Putin "on" Russia 1 "said:

“In many Russian regions, optimization was unsuccessful.”

So there!

But the conclusions of the Center for Economic and Political Reforms (CEPR) based on Rosstat data are much worse: as a result of optimization, from 2000 to 2015, the number of hospitals in Russia halved - from 10,7 thousand to 5,4 thousand. The number of clinics over the same period, it decreased by 12,7% to 18,6 thousand institutions. Specialists then noted that in the case of maintaining such a rate of hospital closure (approximately 353 annually) by 2021–2022, the number of medical facilities in the country will reach three thousand, that is, the level of the Russian Empire in 1913.

When Govorukhin’s famous documentary “Russia We Lost” came out, neither the audience nor the director in the worst dream imagined what form we would find it in. The number of hospitals as in 1913! Just think: the WWI passed, the revolution, the harsh 1930s, the Great Patriotic War, the post-war reconstruction of the country, the Khrushchev thaw, Brezhnev stagnation, perestroika and 1991 — and the circle closed ... The curtain.

What justifies, despite the failure of optimization / restructuring / modernization, the IOPS official to further destroy our hospital? There are justifications for a wagon and a small trolley: here is the turnover of the bed, and how this bed is idle, and the lack of continuity, and the inefficient use of the regional budget funds, and the fact that the Angarsk branch has not been publicly prevented for many years dangerous actions of the mentally ill. The last thing is to be sculpted in stone: the Angara branch under the direction of the IAPND has existed since May 2019, and before that the Angarsk hospital was one of the best in its field in its profile. And especially for the prevention of "especially dangerous actions" of the mentally ill.

I have an assumption that when they optimized / reformed / restructured / modernized the infectious disease service, feathers creaked throughout the country in high and not-so-very offices, where they printed the same thing on paper, which you read a little higher.

And then came COVID-19. And where are the infectious diseases hospitals, doctors, professional nurses and nurses? We will wait for particularly resonant cases: "chainsaw massacre" or mass suicides? It is unlikely that any of the journalists of the central channels and promoted bloggers will be interested in mentally ill people frozen on the streets. And who distinguishes them from ordinary citizens there? In death, we all become alike.

Dear citizens, we ask you not to remain indifferent, not to tell yourself that, they say, this will not affect me. Take the problem seriously and ask the executive and legislative branches: is it time to stop experimenting with medicine?
Author:
Photos used:
kremlin.ru
Articles from this series:
Optimization? Destruction of medicine!
We do not live in the USSR! Optimizer Acts
138 comments
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  1. Grandfather
    Grandfather 10 May 2020 05: 24 New
    37
    Dear citizens, we ask you not to remain indifferent, not to tell yourself that, they say, this will not affect me. Take the problem seriously and ask the executive and legislative branches: is it time to stop experimenting with medicine?
    дорогой автор,не надо расшатывать скрепы и раскачивать яхты... чего ты от нас,от народа , хочешь? "болотную" ? так "гвардейцы" быстро уговорят этого не делать. остаётся пока, тихо материться на кухне,поминая всуе аффторов оптимизации и дебилизации всего и вся.видимо ещё не дозрели,не добродили чтоб "рвануло",или ещё один смачный плевок от власти нужен для того чтоб ..." не остаться равнодушным".
    1. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 10 May 2020 05: 36 New
      +7
      “In many Russian regions, optimization was unsuccessful.”
      Неадекватов стало намноооого больше ! Как и в в странах наших "партнеров"
      1. Stas157
        Stas157 10 May 2020 09: 48 New
        19
        It consists in a large-scale reduction in the number of psychiatric beds and psychiatric hospitals. with the parallel development of various forms of community-based care mentally ill, discharged from psychiatric hospitals

        The beds were reduced, but they forgot about community care and social services.
        Nevertheless, they refer to world experience!

        I’m twisting and turning, I want to confuse ... If we talk about any experience, then our officials obviously got theirs from the thimble.
    2. Far B
      Far B 10 May 2020 05: 37 New
      55
      чего ты от нас,от народа , хочешь? "болотную" ? так "гвардейцы" быстро уговорят этого не делать. остаётся пока, тихо материться на кухне
      А вот французики не стали на кухне материться, когда Макарон свои реформы затеял. Много-много недель бузили, и с тамошней "росгвардией" бодались, но своего добились - съехал г-н Макарон, отказался от своих реформ. Но мы ведь не хотим как во Франции, да?
      1. Grandfather
        Grandfather 10 May 2020 05: 40 New
        27
        Quote: Dalny V
        But we don’t want like in France, right?

        I’ll tell you more, we even do not want Ukraine, and like in gabon ... we want both in the USSR!
        1. knn54
          knn54 10 May 2020 08: 47 New
          -14
          “70% of patients really solve their health problems in clinics, and only 30% in hospitals.”
          Я как то писал,что ПОДАВЛЯЮЩЕЕ число (лет 10 назад) пациентов психбольниц это "косящие" от армии или суда.ВИП палаты для лечения "запойных".
          В тех же США процент "убийц-одиночек" просто зашкаливает.А с появлением Интернета появилась и масса "ЦЕЛЕНАПРАВЛЕННОГО негатива".Существующая реальность оптимизма не добавляет.Да и лекарства зачастую не лечат,а калечат.Все хотят заработать.Фармацевты тоже.
          1. avva2012
            10 May 2020 09: 21 New
            20
            knn54
            Я как то писал,что ПОДАВЛЯЮЩЕЕ число (лет 10 назад) пациентов психбольниц это "косящие" от армии или суда.ВИП палаты для лечения "запойных".
            I’ve been in psychiatry for 25 years and haven’t seen or heard anything like it. Draftees undergo examination in open hospitals according to the type of border state departments.
            Drunken people are in drug addiction departments, and as you know, narcology, although it goes to the structure of mental hospitals, is often a separate service. And 10 years ago, the same thing. In large cities, narcologists generally separated from psychiatry. About the time frame, 10-15 years ago. Drop the link please, if not difficult.
            1. knn54
              knn54 10 May 2020 10: 39 New
              -10
              1.This is in Ukraine. I do not think that it has changed much in 10 years.
              2. Про запойных-написал же ВИП-палата.Если бы знакомый (уже умер) не посетил свою "главбухшу".у которой бывало 2-3 срыва в год.я бы и не знал.
              1. avva2012
                10 May 2020 10: 46 New
                19
                So write in Ukraine 10 years ago, then this and that. And it’s not clear. We are in Russia.
                There are VIP chambers in the same drug treatment departments. Well, a man with money will not go to get treated for binge in an acute psychiatric ward! Yes, and as you imagine, I don’t know, but what in Ukraine, what in Russia, documents for a patient are entered in the form of a hospital patient card. And then suddenly a fatal outcome? Yes, and some medicines must be written off, they are located on the PKU. The medical history may be anonymous for an alcoholic, but only upon presentation of a passport. It’s everywhere, because from our student years we remember: "следующий, кто будет читать историю болезни, может быть прокурор".
            2. begemot20091
              begemot20091 10 May 2020 13: 05 New
              -9
              ну, полно-те , граф, свистеть. Я проходил через эту контору - обследовался. Целая палата "студентов"- двоечников "косила" . Человек 10-12. Зав отделением на такой тачке каталась - хирургу -анестезиологу не снилось. А сколько алкашей - профессуры "отмачивали"? Видимо врачи-анонимщики уже не в силах были справится. Это было лет 15 назад. Сейчас, правда, частных клиник наоткрывали для этой категории и депутатов. там и бабла поболе срубить можно. Так что, не надо о грустном. А то становитесь похожими на "влетевшими" на экраны ТВ вирусологами, которые языками чешут, как помелом метут. Правильно сказал один грамотный политолог
              1. avva2012
                10 May 2020 15: 08 New
                +4
                begemot20091
                ну, полно-те , граф, свистеть. Я проходил через эту контору - обследовался. Целая палата "студентов"- двоечников "косила" . Человек 10-12.
                Yeah, you immediately determined who mows and who doesn't? wassat Just some kind of genius! And what kind of demon did I study at the institute for 6 years, then 1 year in internship, then every 2 years in GIDUV, every 5 years, confirmation of the certificate?
                That's how it turned out! crying
                The head of the department rode on such a wheelbarrow - the surgeon-anesthesiologist did not dream.

                Found with whom to compare. For you, an anesthesiologist surgeon, is it someone close to Abramovich? laughing Thank you, made fun.
                А то становитесь похожими на "влетевшими" на экраны ТВ вирусологами, которые языками чешут, как помелом метут.

                do not watch TV from the word at all, otherwise, apparently, the consequences can be unpredictable.
                How long have I not been to VO! wassat bully fellow
          2. Evil543
            Evil543 10 May 2020 10: 49 New
            +1
            Go on an excursion to a psychiatric hospital, especially to the children's department, I was not comfortable with an adult peasant.
            1. avva2012
              10 May 2020 11: 16 New
              +7
              Evil543
              Go on an excursion to a psychiatric hospital, especially to the children's department, I was not comfortable with an adult peasant.
              And who let you go there, do not tell me?
              In psychiatric hospitals, there are specially designated facilities for visiting relatives, which is located outside the ward. And this is done for safety, both sick (different relatives are) and the visitors themselves. Only in rare exceptions, when the patient does not go out of psychosis for a long time, relatives are allowed to enter the ward, and even then not in the ward, but also in a certain place where honey is supervised. staff and there is a date.
              1. begemot20091
                begemot20091 10 May 2020 13: 17 New
                -5

                In psychiatric hospitals, there are specially designated facilities for visiting relatives, which is located outside the ward. And this is done for safety, both sick (different relatives are) and the visitors themselves. Only in rare exceptions, when the patient does not go out of psychosis for a long time, relatives are allowed to enter the ward, and even then not in the ward, but also in a certain place where honey is supervised. staff and a date. [/ quote]
                Не говорите глупостей. У меня жена с дочкой пришли - посмотрели. В шоке были. А всего-навсего видели "наполеона" в треуголке из газеты, который маршировал по коридору в одну сторону, а в обратную- он уже был начальником ГАИ. Студенты, надо сказать, долго не задерживались. Вероятно, их пребывание зависело "от полноты налитого стакана". За едой я, как и многие другие, ходил в буфет или в магазин за забором (с прогулки разрешали отлучаться, а на выходные многих домой отпускали). Так что, если вы пишете про дисциплину со слов медиков или со слов преподавателя, который(чаще всего) даже больных не видел, предлагаю спросит у людей чьи родственники там находятся. В столовую не советую заглядывать - стошнит. Нормальный хозяин собак лучше кормит.
                1. avva2012
                  10 May 2020 14: 25 New
                  +4
                  begemot20091
                  Do not be silly. I have a wife with daughter came - looked.
                  You are not saying that which you do not know. With children under 15 years old, in general, entry is prohibited. And again for the deaf. Meetings with relatives only. No strangers are allowed, an adult is a department or a nursery.
                  You tell similar things on the street, maybe they will. Although there is no believe on the site, someone put a plus sign to you.
                  I do not advise you to drop into the dining room - it will make you sick. A normal dog owner feeds better.

                  So I can tell a lot of bad things about medicine, well, sorry about that. The patients who have been fed for the past five years are not very bad and quite diverse. Moreover, in children’s branch. And again, and again, who let your hypothetical wife and daughter not only into the ward, but also into the dining room ??? There are no dining rooms from the word at all.
                  So if you write about discipline from the words of doctors or from the words of a teacher who (most often) did not even see patients, I suggest asking people whose relatives are there.

                  May I leave this pearl without comment, otherwise it will be banned.
                  There are two options: either you talk about the psychiatric hospital of the 90s, it agrees on nutrition, otherwise it doesn’t, or you are brazenly misleading, or rather, trying to do it.
                  The only thing true, it’s interesting from whom they heard, is that they release patients for the weekend. Some ( не многих) перед выпиской и это называется "лечебным отпуском".
                  What next answer write? laughing
                  1. begemot20091
                    begemot20091 10 May 2020 23: 58 New
                    -5
                    Что я напишу? Рекомендую прийти на экзамен- это первое(лучше на тесты ) и попробовать с выпускников без шпаргалок "спрос" учинить. (Кстати, в тех же "заграницах" - конкретно знаю пр США- попробуйте шпаргалку достать. "О психбольнице 90-х " - да, именно тогда - этот период имею ввиду. точнее -95 год. И студенты, кстати, лежали со мной в палате. И мои студенты, в том числе. Дочка не ребенок, а студентом была. То бишь, за 18. В заблуждения вводить... Смысл. Это всё на моих глазах - и уголовные дела, и липовые справки. Да, и бодаться с вами. Кстати, учился чуть дольше 6 лет - 30, не считая школы. Про курсы повышения надо бы скромно помолчать. Что это такое... Ладно еще "симулянты", увидевшие новые приборы и оборудование, а в основном... да не вижу смысла рассуждать. о том, что представляет сегодня медицина знает любой "колхозник" и сколько стоит- любой горожанин. Я ещё не коснулся стоматологии!?!? А если, искурили учебник арифметики , то можете поинтересоваться этой темой. Только с технологами от производства познакомьтесь, чтобы расчеты не сводились "я 6 лет проучился".
              2. Evil543
                Evil543 10 May 2020 15: 59 New
                0
                Fulfilled the contract
        2. Baloo
          Baloo 10 May 2020 08: 50 New
          10
          Quote: Dead Day
          Quote: Dalny V
          But we don’t want like in France, right?

          I’ll tell you more, we even do not want Ukraine, and like in gabon ... we want both in the USSR!

          Actually. Childhood passed in a slum, albeit in the center of the city. In our small courtyard lived neighbor Venya. They got a three-room apartment for demolition. Sold, bought a Muscovite, and one room. Smashed, bought a motorcycle and a coat without amenities in the city center. I will not continue about his magical deeds and imprisonment in places not so distant. So the nurse from the psychiatric dispensary guarded him to make an appointment, because he ignored the cards. Such was the psychiatric service in the USSR and the medical examination.
        3. alone
          alone 10 May 2020 10: 49 New
          +2
          Quote: Dead Day
          we want like in the USSR!

          Если смотреть на верхушку "айсберга",то с такими "как в СССР" никогда не получится..
      2. avva2012
        10 May 2020 06: 07 New
        27
        Far B
        But we don’t want like in France, right?

        Самое печальное, что у нас у всех есть опыт смены строя в стране. Именно агитацией и пропагандой у населения СССР было создано ощущение "Так жить нельзя". Если бы таких настроений не было, то никто бы из верхушки не рискнул провернуть операцию "развал СССР".
        1. Far B
          Far B 10 May 2020 06: 14 New
          21
          В то время агитация и пропаганда антисоветской направленности была инициирована ренегатской верхушкой КПСС во главе с Меченным, а Яковлев, который главный идеолог и главный по газетам-журналам всего СССР - и вовсе чуть не явный шпиён Запада (о чем Горбачеву даже докладывали, или, вернее, пытались доложить, но тот даже слушать не захотел; видимо, и сам все прекрасно знал, и его это устраивало). Не думаете же вы, что нынешние "рулевые" сами против себя инициируют агитационную компанию? Так что одной пропагандой сейчас изменить в стране строй не получится.
          1. avva2012
            10 May 2020 06: 21 New
            17
            Then there was no internet, comrade. Everyone watched TV and read newspapers / magazines. Now there is YouTube, there are social networks. No calls are needed, this is dangerous, and it’s stupid to be honest. But to clarify, you just need to inform people.
            There were then several hundred of them, along with Yakovlev, who actively participated in the propaganda, there are millions of us. Can't we?
          2. IS-80_RVGK2
            IS-80_RVGK2 10 May 2020 10: 32 New
            +1
            Yeah, solid spies. And the fact that the hand-assed bronzed figures in power led the economy to disaster is a trifle of life. The fact that the masses did not get rid of feudal social consciousness and Nichrome did not understand and did not want to understand the works of even the classics of Marxism. This is of course nothing. That spy yes. Hand face.
        2. IS-80_RVGK2
          IS-80_RVGK2 10 May 2020 10: 26 New
          -6
          But is it only agitation and propaganda? With the economy, you know, everything was very sad. To deny this means not to draw any lesson from history and to try to step on the same rake again on occasion.
      3. avva2012
        10 May 2020 12: 06 New
        +7
        Unit! -
        Who needs it ?!
        Unit voice
        thinner squeak.
        Who will hear her? -
        Is the wife!
        And then
        if not in the market,
        but close ...
        Bad man
        when he is alone
        Woe to one
        one is not a warrior -
        every hefty
        him lord
        and even weak
        if two ...
        Unit is nonsense
        the unit is zero,
        one -
        even
        very important -
        will not raise
        simple
        five-hole log,
        a fortiori
        five-storey house. V. Mayakovsky.
    3. avva2012
      10 May 2020 06: 00 New
      18

      Grandfather
      не надо расшатывать скрепы и раскачивать яхты... чего ты от нас,от народа , хочешь? "болотную" ?
      Вы и дальше можете оставить в покое "лодку" и дожидаться всех прелестей уничтожения медицины. Это ваше право, ваш выбор. Но под словами "не остаться равнодушными", подразумевается в том числе, хотя бы распространение данной информации по соц. сетям.
      Many do not know anything about what is happening in the country. Fortunately, psychiatry is very far away for the majority of the population. So far.
      1. minus
        minus 10 May 2020 06: 32 New
        +4
        On social networks, you can really quickly spread it. So you write a brief overview of the problem, leave a link. And I regret that I registered in several social networks. I’m tired of sent gifts, letters and other things.))) By the way, it’s also a kind of disease in people))) But information can be disseminated very quickly.
        1. avva2012
          10 May 2020 06: 59 New
          +6
          minus
          So you write a brief overview of the problem, leave a link

          Everything here is in the article, or rather after it. This article is the third and about one problem.
          1. minus
            minus 10 May 2020 09: 26 New
            +4
            Not many people here read unfortunately ... We need to briefly write the whole point about the problem. And it’s on social networks to run. It is the most important and essential. And there will be thousands of reposts.
            1. avva2012
              10 May 2020 09: 36 New
              +9
              Евгений и в соц. сети отправляем, и готовы куда угодно. Отправлял материалы Платошкину в региональный центр по СибФО, Сёмину, да много куда. Откликнулся только Семин в его "Галопах по Европах" о нас сказали. И это всё.
              1. minus
                minus 10 May 2020 09: 38 New
                +2
                In the news, by the way, information appeared the last three days.
                1. avva2012
                  10 May 2020 09: 41 New
                  +1
                  In the news, by the way, information appeared the last three days.
                  Reply
                  Do not give links?
                  1. minus
                    minus 10 May 2020 09: 49 New
                    +2
                    Not saved. I saw news on Yandex yesterday. And there were links to several Irkutsk online publications.
              2. minus
                minus 10 May 2020 09: 44 New
                +8
                Medicine is not indifferent to me. He spent a lot of time in the hospital in childhood. I constantly asked for a call with my mother when I was the head doctor of the Pechersk Children's District Hospital. Doctor pediatrician, excellent student of the Komi ASSR. 79 years old will be in the fall, still working. True age affects ... Now only in kindergartens ... The load is huge, doctors, nurses and narrow specialists are sorely lacking ...
                1. avva2012
                  10 May 2020 10: 12 New
                  +8
                  minus
                  Doctor pediatrician, excellent student of the Komi ASSR. 79years will be in the fall, still working. True age affects ...

                  Low bow to your mom!
                  Вы прочтите на ВО, было обращение нашей "мамы", тоже бывшего главного врача, которая ушла на пенсию в прошлом году: Вера Евгеньевна Федотенко 1934 года рождения. Работала до последнего и сейчас очень переживает о том, что делается с нами.
      2. Grandfather
        Grandfather 10 May 2020 06: 40 New
        +4
        Quote: avva2012
        Many do not know anything about what is happening in the country.

        yah ? in remote villages? there are simply adherents of the nightingale-scabeyevs, but this is a clinical case, they don’t want to know anything else.
        1. avva2012
          10 May 2020 07: 04 New
          +3
          Grandfather
          there are simply adherents of the nightingale-scabeyevs, but this is a clinical case, they don’t want to know anything else.
          Dear, clinical idiots on a population of approximately 0,0002 percent. In most cases, people can be explained if there is a desire.
          And about an area such as psychiatry, do you often think about its problems, how many times a day? wassat
          1. Grandfather
            Grandfather 10 May 2020 07: 44 New
            10
            Quote: avva2012
            And about an area such as psychiatry, do you often think about its problems, how many times a day?

            задумываюсь,каждый раз,как наши правители выдают очередной "перл"....
            1. Overlock
              Overlock 10 May 2020 13: 02 New
              +7
              Quote: Dead Day
              задумываюсь,каждый раз,как наши правители выдают очередной "перл"....

              laughing request laughing
          2. Insurgent
            Insurgent 10 May 2020 07: 59 New
            12
            Quote: avva2012
            In most cases, people can be explained

            Agree that you will have to explain in the all the drowning roar of information and propaganda structures, both foreign and domestic ...

            Moreover, the strangest (and worst) thing is that most of the domestic media working for the collapse of the state are funded by the state itself.
            1. avva2012
              10 May 2020 08: 05 New
              +8
              Insurgent
              Agree that you will have to explain in the all the drowning roar of information and propaganda structures, both foreign and domestic ...
              Сейчас, по крайней мере, где есть интернет, многие люди переключаются на него от телевизора. Я знаю многих людей после 70-ти, которые смотрят Ютюб, там и сериалы, и передачи более интересные, чем на ТВ. Молодежь, вообще, практически вся в сети. Поэтому можно и нужно, мягко, но настойчиво продвигать противоположные идеи "пропагандистских структур". hi
      3. Esoteric
        Esoteric 10 May 2020 08: 42 New
        +2
        I have a very ambivalent attitude towards your service, psychiatric. After all, this is an excellent method for the state to eliminate what is not acceptable. It was so? It was stupid to deny. Apartments at grandmothers - grandfathers bandit through psychiatry wring out? It was the same, and now it is not overcome. So, here it is necessary to measure seven times. You can make a psycho out of any person, the same haloperidol.
        1. avva2012
          10 May 2020 09: 28 New
          +6
          Esoteric
          You can make a psycho out of any person, the same haloperidol.

          Do not spread myths, please. If moderation passes, then the next article will be just about mental illness, their treatment, and about some other problems.
          As for the excellent method to eliminate objectionable, perhaps there will also be an article. About the USA.
          And grandfathers and mentally ill, alcoholics in the 90s squeezed apartments through ZhEKi. There the lists were who live alone, who are not quite healthy.
          "отрицать глупо"? Не умно разносить не проверенную информацию, на мой взгляд.
          Of course, I do not impose my opinion.
          1. Esoteric
            Esoteric 10 May 2020 09: 41 New
            0
            I do not quite agree with you. We have the same very practice. Sluggish schizophrenia. As for the United States, I completely agree, such horror as lobotomy flourished there. Not quite healthy, this concept is very loose. For example, Darwin’s father played the flute on plants to watch, but what happens. An eccentric gentleman, as it used to be called there. But in psychiatry, he is undoubtedly not entirely in himself.
            The same neurosis. It is considered an absolutely reversible disease, and in our modern conditions, I think, at least half of people in one form or another suffer from it. But! Someone will go, voluntarily, to a psychiatrist to brand himself for life? No one will do it. In our country, a trip to you is a statement of a wolf ticket, for life. Is not it? This needs to be changed so that a person who has problems is not afraid to come to you, is not afraid to completely destroy his life. Now in the West this has been overcome, there is no wolf ticket issued. We have ... Alas. In no case did not want to offend you. All of us health.
            1. avva2012
              10 May 2020 09: 55 New
              10
              Now in the West this has been overcome, there is no wolf ticket issued.

              Yes, they overcame, in many countries there is no psychiatry at all.
              And accordingly the results. Remember the case when a plane crashed, whether Swiss Airlines, or French? So the pilot, who dropped the liner, suffered for a long time a severe form of depression. And for me, of those crumbs that reported not just depression, but with delirium. Как вы считаете, стоило такому "волчий билет" дать?
              А насчет неврозов вы не правы. Никто вас на учет не поставит. И проблем ни у кого не будет в будущем. Диспансерный учет, который кстати так теперь не называется, предназначен для тяжелых психических заболевания с частыми обострениями. Например шизофрения, да и то не вся. Вялотекущая есть. И на Западе тоже, только она там не называется так, а "шизотипическое расстройство". Симптомы те же, что и у вялотекущенко. Легче от этого кому-то стало?
              I want to remind you of Bukovsky, who was punished)) Soviet psychiatry. But how did he turn out to be a pedophile in England? Maybe they didn’t try to treat it for nothing? Https: //aif.ru/politics/russia/ot_dissidentstva_do_detskogo_porno_v_londone_umer_vladimir_bukovskiy
              Ay, ah, ah, how not convenient it turned out ....
      4. New Year day
        New Year day 10 May 2020 12: 11 New
        +7
        Quote: avva2012
        Many do not know anything about what is happening in the country.

        In my opinion, what is happening with medicine is known to everyone in the country. Further worse
        1. avva2012
          10 May 2020 14: 52 New
          +3
          In my opinion, what is happening with medicine is known to everyone in the country.
          Is it so? For example, this gentleman begemot20091 lives in another country. He gets anyone in his mental hospital, he can determine without education who mows and who doesn’t. So there are different people. hi
    4. siberalt
      siberalt 10 May 2020 06: 33 New
      +2
      To the grandfather, bravo! Plus 100500!
      1. Alexander Greene
        Alexander Greene 10 May 2020 14: 27 New
        -5
        Quote: siberalt
        To the grandfather, bravo! Plus 100500!

        Не много ли плюсов? О таких Максим Горький писал: "Глупый пингвин робко прячет, тело жирное в утевах!".
        1. Grandfather
          Grandfather 10 May 2020 20: 11 New
          0
          Quote: Alexander Green
          Quote: siberalt
          To the grandfather, bravo! Plus 100500!

          Не много ли плюсов? О таких Максим Горький писал: "Глупый пингвин робко прячет, тело жирное в утевах!".

          Gorky- Peshkov, at least, was literate, unlike you.
    5. prior
      prior 10 May 2020 08: 51 New
      13
      Что-то мне подсказывает, что в своём "развитии" на 1913 годе мы не остановимся.
      У нашего "развития" дна нет.
      1. Insurgent
        Insurgent 10 May 2020 10: 43 New
        +4
        Quote: prior
        Что-то мне подсказывает, что в своём "развитии" на 1913 годе мы не остановимся.

        The next 1914, World War II?
        1. prior
          prior 10 May 2020 11: 13 New
          +4
          Or Russian-Japanese, it depends on which direction to consider - direct or reverse.
          The author of the article believes otherwise.
          1. Insurgent
            Insurgent 11 May 2020 07: 08 New
            +1
            Quote: prior
            Or Russian-Japanese, it depends on which direction to consider - direct or reverse.
            The author of the article believes otherwise.

            Retroglyad ... laughing
        2. Overlock
          Overlock 10 May 2020 13: 05 New
          +2
          Quote: Insurgent
          The next 1914, World War II?

          everything is possible. War is one way to resolve crises. The only condition is that she must be quick and victorious!
        3. Doliva63
          Doliva63 10 May 2020 17: 41 New
          +2
          Quote: Insurgent
          Quote: prior
          Что-то мне подсказывает, что в своём "развитии" на 1913 годе мы не остановимся.

          The next 1914, World War II?

          No. The next is the 1912th.
        4. albert
          albert 10 May 2020 19: 35 New
          +1
          Quote: Insurgent
          Next 1914th

          No, 1917 is next.
    6. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 10 May 2020 14: 18 New
      +1
      Quote: Dead Day
      остаётся пока, тихо материться на кухне,поминая всуе аффторов оптимизации и дебилизации всего и вся.видимо ещё не дозрели,не добродили чтоб "рвануло"

      Если ограничиваться кухней и ждать, то никогда не "добродит". Надо поддержать медиков, они и за вас выступают.
    7. Virus-free crown
      Virus-free crown 10 May 2020 14: 33 New
      +6
      Quote: Dead Day
      Dear citizens, we ask you not to remain indifferent, not to tell yourself that, they say, this will not affect me. Take the problem seriously and ask the executive and legislative branches: is it time to stop experimenting with medicine?
      дорогой автор,не надо расшатывать скрепы и раскачивать яхты... чего ты от нас,от народа , хочешь? "болотную" ? так "гвардейцы" быстро уговорят этого не делать. остаётся пока, тихо материться на кухне,поминая всуе аффторов оптимизации и дебилизации всего и вся.видимо ещё не дозрели,не добродили чтоб "рвануло",или ещё один смачный плевок от власти нужен для того чтоб ..." не остаться равнодушным".

      The author simply reminds you of a famous quote:

      When the Nazis seized the Communists, I was silent: I was not a Communist.
      When they imprisoned the Social Democrats, I was silent: I was not a Social Democrat.
      When they grabbed union members, I was silent: I was not a union member.
      When they came for me there was no one to stand up for me.
    8. BigBoss
      BigBoss 15 May 2020 05: 39 New
      0
      First you need to vote against a constitutional amendment in the next referendum. After all, it is obvious that they are being done for one purpose - zeroing out the presidential term. After all, if we support this zeroing, we will support all the ugliness that is happening in the country. Including with medicine.
  2. Far B
    Far B 10 May 2020 05: 35 New
    +9
    Well, as long as the current ones remain in power (and the Tsar generally plans to sit until 2036), then
    Specialists then noted that if the rates of hospital closure were maintained (approximately 353 annually) by 2021–2022, the number of medical facilities in the country would reach three thousand, that is, the level of the Russian Empire in 1913
    - this is by no means the limit. Give 1813! and 1713! And then downward ... Until the people wake up, the development trend (which is negative, yeah) will not change.
    1. Fevralsk. Morev
      Fevralsk. Morev 10 May 2020 07: 15 New
      +8
      And why do they build three temples a day? He fell ill, went to church, there he prayed to the little god, he unfastened a small share of the priest and voila, you are healthy. Well, so, in theory it should be. But still remember, trust in God, but don’t be fooled. In the sense, claims are not accepted if there is no result.
    2. depressant
      depressant 10 May 2020 08: 57 New
      13
      Да говорили мы о 2013 годе на ВО, говорили... Приводили все цифры, представленные Автором. Вспомните лучше "Град обреченный" Стругацких. Что именно было сделано для того, чтобы фашизм пришел к власти? Выпустили из больниц сумасшедших и распахнули ворота зоопарков. Не эту ли картину наблюдаем? Ровно эту. Если писатели использовали данный прием, значит он был давно известен. С нюансами. В литературе использован как аллегория. А тут топорно и прямо. Будто следуя наработанной методике. Занять население горизонтальными проблемами: сумасшедшие, наркоманы, пьяницы, короче, на улицу всех таких! Чтоб нормальному гражданину жизнь медом не казалась, но правительство как бы ни при чём. Чтоб граждане "полезно" озаботились на своем уровне, не поднимая голову вверх с вопрошающими вопросами к власти, обделывающей свои темные и опасные для нас дела. Чтоб гражданин жил в постоянном ощущении опасности. А тут и коронавирус кстати подоспел...
      I'm more interested in something else. Yesterday I had a chance to read: a person has a stroke, they called an ambulance, they answer, they say, you are put on the line, we will come tomorrow. Stroke, understand?!? A stroke is when a person can return to normal life through thorns for at least six months, if help is provided for a maximum of 3 hours. I have two neighbors with the consequences of a stroke. Such is the optimization of medicine. And all for the sake of scraping the National Wealth Fund with the parallel withdrawal of 3 trillion dollars per hill. And the Fund - I have no doubt, will be partly sawn, partly stolen, if still intact. And in our country there will be another galaxy of dollar billionaires.
      И вспомните концовку истории с сумасшедшими в "Граде". Человек кричит: "Я не сумасшедший! Вы ошиблись!" А его -- в костер. Вот это нас ожидает? Нас -- в топку истории?
      1. Overlock
        Overlock 10 May 2020 13: 09 New
        +4
        Quote: depressant
        you are put on the line, we’ll come tomorrow.

        the good question is, what, during the period of the virus’s malice, did ordinary diseases self-isolate or self-destruct? Not at all! They simply do not talk about these deaths, but, of course, people die in batches! They die from heart attacks, strokes, appendicitis, injuries. If the hospitals were reduced and all thrown into the infection, then who is treating the rest?
        1. depressant
          depressant 10 May 2020 14: 04 New
          +5
          Exactly a colleague. Because I'm afraid to go out once again. After a short dying in the hospital, my heart is pounding like a blacksmith’s hammer - bang !!! bang !!! bang !!! Not often, but with such force and so loud that the body resonates. So I’ll go out onto the street, fall off with a heart attack - who will come to me? Neighbors are sick. And the ambulance disappeared completely. Before the day did not pass without the arrival of an ambulance to someone. We all went out on loggias, were interested: to whom, why. And now, from March 18th - not a single visit! Almost two months. Suddenly a little hello? I doubt it. Coronaviruses carry. Or injured in severe accidents. But ordinary sick people do not even call a taxi. Because in hospitals there are no places and there are no free doctors. So I pray to God: if only not for appendicitis, not a stroke and not a heart attack. I’ll survive another.
      2. avva2012
        10 May 2020 15: 55 New
        +2
        [quote] depressant
        И вспомните концовку истории с сумасшедшими в "Граде". Человек кричит: "Я не сумасшедший! Вы ошиблись!" А его -- в костер. Вот это нас ожидает? Нас -- в топку истории?/quote]
        Lyudmila Yakovlevna, it is very sad for us, but in the Middle Ages they perfectly understood what a mental illness was and they didn’t drag it to the fire. Imagine the horror, but those people were more humane than US. Or rather, not us, but those who decides our destinies.
  3. Comrade
    Comrade 10 May 2020 05: 53 New
    +9
    When Govorukhin's famous documentary “Russia We Lost” came out

    I read the article and it occurred to me to compare 1913 and 1986 by the number of hospital beds and doctors per 10 people.
    Смотрим сборник "Народное хозяйство СССР за 70 лет", странно, что никто тогда не сунул под нос Говорухину эти цифры.

    In 1913, per 10 people 1,8 doctors, and in 1986 - 42,7.
    In 1913, per 10 people 13 hospital beds, and in 1986 - 130.
    По Говорухину, "Так жить нельзя".
    In fairness, in the second half of the 90s Govorukhin publicly repented when in the studio where he came to talk about his work, the audience shut him up, they say, look how it became, it's your fault.
    He lowered his eyes, yes, they say, to blame, I'm sorry ..
    1. siberalt
      siberalt 10 May 2020 06: 36 New
      16
      The same thing as a rotten, annoying thesis that it is now better than in the USSR. But something else is important here - as it would be now if the USSR had not been destroyed? But our economic and scientific potentials were an order of magnitude higher than the then Chinese.
      1. depressant
        depressant 10 May 2020 12: 58 New
        +5
        Коллега, не в бровь, а в глаз! Меня всегда удивляет, когда некоторые рассказывают о том, как плохо им жилось в СССР, окидывая при этом взглядом окружающие их предметы современного быта, доступные практически всем. И потому на основе сопоставления бытовой обстановки тех и нынешних лет, их аргументы в подтексте звучат примерно так: "У меня тогда не было мобильного телефона!!" А молодежь слушает и думает: "Действительно, и как они так безобразно жили?" И невдомек, что современных вещей в те времена вообще нигде в мире не было. И никому даже в голову не придет вспомнить, что огромную часть своего существования страна провела в разрушительных войнах.
        Oh, that would be the State Planning Commission computers and the Internet!
  4. codetalker
    codetalker 10 May 2020 06: 09 New
    +2
    Here, unfortunately, there is nothing surprising. Obviously, in the public administration environment, we have a significant West-oriented segment. And the goal of this “segment" is not to steal more, but to reduce the population of Russia stronger. But you need to continue the struggle for your future. It will not be easy, but not without hope of success. We also have a pro-Russian segment in governing the country (which, unfortunately, many visitors to this portal deny, which pours water on the enemy’s mill).
    1. avva2012
      10 May 2020 06: 27 New
      +4
      codetalker
      Tk we have a pro-Russian segment in the management of the country

      Thank you for your wishes! hi
      It cannot fail to be, of this segment, since otherwise dialectical logic would not work.
      1. depressant
        depressant 10 May 2020 14: 29 New
        +1
        Codetalker’s colleague, our pro-Russian and even pro-Soviet government segment, is Deputy Prime Minister Andrei Belousov. Everything looks as if Putin has drifted away from everyone and is watching. And then, supposedly, he will take the side of the one who wins the dispute - conditionally Soviet or certainly pro-Western. But he himself is pro-Western. He uses the pro-Soviet Belousov only to appease the political ambitions of his opponents. One gets the impression that Belousov understands his role as a counterweight. This is a man whom I respect. He can do a lot of good for the country.
    2. Greenwood
      Greenwood 10 May 2020 07: 29 New
      +5
      Quote: codetalker
      Tk we have a pro-Russian segment in the management of the country
      Who do you relate to those?
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      2. New Year day
        New Year day 10 May 2020 12: 17 New
        +7
        Quote: Mordvin 3
        My neighbor, too, spent a week and a half with pneumonia in the hospital. Then he threw back the hooves at home. Not cured.

        From the coronavirus, the assistant to the duty commandant's office of the Moscow Kremlin, major of the Federal Security Service (FSO) Alexey Titov, died. On April 26 and 27, Titov tried to call an ambulance, but she never arrived.
        The presidential regiment’s car was taken to the hospital, and died on April 30.
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  6. nikvic46
    nikvic46 10 May 2020 06: 50 New
    +3
    The economy controls everything. And the liberalization of the economy has affected everything else. The economy, like information resources, has been divided into small principalities.
  7. fa2998
    fa2998 10 May 2020 06: 54 New
    +4
    Quote: Uncle Lee
    “In many Russian regions, optimization was unsuccessful.”
    Неадекватов стало намноооого больше ! Как и в в странах наших "партнеров"

    Особенно во власти!Как у у наших "партнеров". crying hi
  8. VLR
    VLR 10 May 2020 07: 04 New
    +7
    Потому и страх такой у властей России перед, в общем-то, не слишком опасным новым вирусом (с оспой, холерой, чумой или корью даже и сравнивать нельзя, как и с вирусом "Испанки") - они понимают, что натворили с системой здравоохранения, и понимают, что любой всплеск любой инфекции сейчас в России приведет к гуманитарной катастрофе. А вот в Белоруссии система здравоохранения пострадала за эти годы значительно меньше - и потому Лукашенко спокоен. Знает, что его больницы справятся.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 10 May 2020 08: 16 New
      +3
      But in Belarus, the health care system has suffered much less over the years - and therefore Lukashenko is calm. He knows that his hospitals can handle it.

      Let me doubt it, Valery. We are not aware of the epidemiological situation in Belarus. Russian journalists covering her are suddenly denied accreditation.
      1. VLR
        VLR 10 May 2020 08: 21 New
        +6
        Но, судя по всему, ничего особенно страшного там нет: тысячи трупов не спрячешь и сотни тысяч одномоментно заболевших тоже. Интернет ведь там ещё не отключили, следовательно, в случае катастрофичной ситуации, информация пойдет "изо всех щелей".
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 10 May 2020 08: 34 New
          0
          The situation with this virus is insidious that the fact of the epidemic can be used to satisfy political ambitions. Including by hiding. Meanwhile, the presidential election campaign has started in Belarus.
      2. DEDPIHTO
        DEDPIHTO 10 May 2020 08: 52 New
        +6
        Quote: 3x3zsave
        But in Belarus, the health care system has suffered much less over the years - and therefore Lukashenko is calm. He knows that his hospitals can handle it.

        Let me doubt it, Valery. We are not aware of the epidemiological situation in Belarus. Russian journalists covering her are suddenly denied accreditation.

        laughing They deprived journalists of the first feudal channel, where the truth had not even slept for a long time. The neighbors did the right thing, if only there would be to deprive these corrupt people of corruption. And you have the Internet, so use it.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 10 May 2020 09: 00 New
          +3
          I'd rather use Votsap and call a friend in Brest.
        2. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 10 May 2020 10: 53 New
          +5
          Meanwhile, I phoned. There is an epidemic, hysteria and a mess similar to Russian ones - no.
      3. New Year day
        New Year day 10 May 2020 12: 18 New
        +4
        Quote: 3x3zsave
        Russian journalists covering her are suddenly denied accreditation.

        in the plot 11 times lied request
  9. letinant
    letinant 10 May 2020 07: 16 New
    -3
    Here, I read your texts. All are so smart, someone already climbed onto the barricades, someone remembered the USSR. But there is no serious discussion of the text. Why does the author, throughout his entire speech, talk about psychiatric dispensaries, about poor patients with various disorders, and at the end he slides into COVID? I think I just do not want to change the profile. If he was in the know, then he would not have smeared everything with one paint. I was especially amused:
    that in the Angarsk branch for many years the prevention of socially dangerous actions of the mentally ill has not been carried out. The last - it is necessary to sculpt in stone: the Angara branch under the direction of IOPND has existed since May 2019, and before that the Angara hospital was one of the best in the field in its profile. And especially for the prevention of "especially dangerous actions" of the mentally ill.

    I have an assumption that when they optimized / reformed / restructured / modernized the infectious disease service, feathers creaked throughout the country in high and not-so-very offices, where they printed the same thing on paper, which you read a little higher.

    And then came COVID-19.

    Where is psychiatry and where is epidemiology ?! Psychiatric hospitals dealt with two profiles, 1) Wild, which can not be released into society. Also, persons with exacerbations, again violent but limited in time. 2) Alcoholics (delirium tremens).
    Epidemiology (infectious hospitals and departments).
    I agree that our ministers look too westward. More specifically, the notorious WHO. Personally, I need to listen to my opinion, but look at the situation. In this case (KOVID), if everyone is taken to the hospital, you can infect those who were not infected. The only option will not happen to this, 1 person, one chamber. But this is unreal. Even if we left the previous number of hospitals, there would simply not be enough wards for all those infected and suspicious.
    1. avva2012
      10 May 2020 07: 44 New
      +7
      letinant
      Why does the author, throughout his entire speech, talk about psychiatric dispensaries, about poor patients with various disorders, and in the end he crawls onto KOVID? I think I just do not want to change the profile. If he was in the know, then he would not have smeared everything with one paint.

      Have you seen the parallels between infection and psychiatry? I’ll try to explain. 1) the infection was optimized and as a result, the country was left without this industry. The same thing will happen with psychiatry. Consequences: a) untreated or untreated patients will be among ordinary people, including children; b) most patients will appear on the street in the form of homeless people and simply freeze. 2) the mentally ill, by virtue of their inadequate perception of the surrounding reality, themselves will be the spread of any type of infection.
      The only option will not happen to this, 1 person, one chamber. But this is unreal. Even if we left the previous number of hospitals, there would simply not be enough wards for all those infected and suspicious.

      Do not disgrace, do not write about what you have no idea. Read how the infectious disease service was organized in the USSR. It is advisable to raise departmental normative acts, and then express such profound conclusions.
      1. letinant
        letinant 10 May 2020 12: 38 New
        -7
        Do not disgrace, do not write about what you have no idea. Read how the infectious disease service was organized in the USSR. It is advisable to raise departmental normative acts, and then express such profound conclusions.
        So enlighten! In your text, I saw one thing, our hospital is being closed, ALARM !!! And who releases the untreated infectious patients, can you elaborate more? And if you didn’t notice, I personally am against the reduction of hospitals and, accordingly, beds.
        1. avva2012
          10 May 2020 14: 36 New
          +1
          letinant
          who infectious patients release untreated,

          Увольте, я не смогу вас просветить, это не возможно. В школе говорили раньше, "смотришь в книгу, видишь то что хочешь видеть" Где инфекционные больные были в моем тексте недолеченные?
          I haven’t written yet about optimizing the TB service. Also, to some extent, infectious patients.
          Now I’m writing: 50 beds were reduced in the Irkutsk PTD.
          Довольны? А в тексте "психически больные недолеченные".
          1. letinant
            letinant 10 May 2020 23: 18 New
            -2
            Are these your words?
            Have you seen the parallels between infection and psychiatry? I’ll try to explain. 1) the infection was optimized and as a result, the country was left without this industry. The same thing will happen with psychiatry. Consequences: a) untreated or untreated patients will be among ordinary people, including children;
            1. avva2012
              11 May 2020 06: 47 New
              0
              The consequences of optimizing psychiatry and they are listed. Is Russian your native language for sure?
              1. letinant
                letinant 11 May 2020 07: 16 New
                -2
                Quote: avva2012
                The consequences of optimizing psychiatry and they are listed. Is Russian your native language for sure?
                I repeat the question. Are these your words?
                Have you seen the parallels between infection and psychiatry?
                Then what about the infectious hospitals? Do you also work there? If not, write about psychiatry. I just don’t understand why you are jumping from psychiatry (more precisely, specifically to your medical institution
                Hello dear readers! This article is the third part of the story that began with the publication of an open letter from the Angara Psychiatric Hospital.
                ), to more global issues. If you specifically have a question about closing this medical institution, then they will not help you here. You need to write to the site of the presidential administration or the president himself. Also, there is an ONF, by the way, they react very quickly, because if you wrote the truth, this is a socially dangerous act. And here only talk.
                1. avva2012
                  11 May 2020 07: 26 New
                  -1
                  Do you also work there? If not, write about psychiatry. I just do not understand
                  About what to write to me, I decide. If you don’t understand something in Russian, then this is a question for your teacher of the Russian language, for example.
                  You need to write to the site of the presidential administration or the president himself. Also, there is ONF

                  And why did you decide that you didn’t apply there? The system is designed so that all citizens' applications are sent to the place of residence of those same citizens. If the appeal concerns medicine, then it goes down to the Ministry of Health and Social Protection accordingly. request President, the Government does not respond to citizens' statements. Why am I writing an article for VO? Let me decide this question myself. I will not share my motives with you.
  10. Pvi1206
    Pvi1206 10 May 2020 07: 20 New
    +7
    the main goal of the globalists is to reduce the population of the Earth ... all their technologies are aimed at this ... people can be saved only through mass disobedience ... but everyone thinks that somehow everything will do without me ...
  11. Fevralsk. Morev
    Fevralsk. Morev 10 May 2020 07: 30 New
    +4
    Что вы хотите, россияне, план Гитлера под названием "Ost" претворяется в жизнь. Почитайте, что в плане "Ost", написано про образование, медицину, сокращение рождаемости, культуру, историю, о конечной цели превращения народа в рабов. В том плане было все радикально, можно сказать грубо и быстро. Но это понятно, А сейчас, нынешняя власть воплощает это постепенно, мягко, незаметно. Вот и вылазиют результаты, то МальчикКоляИзУренгоя, то нехватка коек. Гитлер это делал, из ненависти к нам. А путин для чего это делает ?
    1. avva2012
      10 May 2020 08: 00 New
      +9
      На мой взгляд Сергей, логика буржуев она одинакова вне зависимости от национальной принадлежности. Фашизм, ведь, это просто идеология неприкрытая масками либерализма, а по сути тот же самый капитализм. Думаю у всех толстосумов одинаковое отношение к своим или не своим народам. Мы для них . И если раньше они сокращали население войнами, то теперь тоже самое делают другими способами: "мягко, незаметно".
  12. Genry
    Genry 10 May 2020 08: 04 New
    -19
    5 часов утра - время заказных статей (очень грантов хочется). Тут и "срачь" в комплекте ....
    Facts and analysis - zero. Only emotions ...
    1. The comment was deleted.
  13. parusnik
    parusnik 10 May 2020 08: 22 New
    +3
    ... enrolled in the bourgeoisie ... laughing In the sense of integrating ... smile
  14. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 10 May 2020 08: 56 New
    10
    Thanks for the series of articles, Alexander!
    Сам сталкивался с современной российской медициной в конце 2017 года. Районная "скорая" приезжать отказалась, пришлось вызывать по "112", машина приехала с другого конца города. На весь Питер, одно отделение торокальной хирургии и 2(!) хирурга.
    1. avva2012
      10 May 2020 09: 32 New
      10
      And this is Peter !!!! What is happening in the outback, it is described and Stephen King talent is not enough.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 10 May 2020 09: 40 New
        +3
        Yeah. This is despite the fact that in my city pneumonia is by no means an outcast disease.
        Sent a link to the article sister-in-law. Location: Saratov, specialty: diagnostician-cardiologist. Let's see what he says.
      2. Victorio
        Victorio 10 May 2020 11: 12 New
        -1
        Quote: avva2012
        And this is Peter !!!! What is happening in the outback, it is described and Stephen King talent is not enough.

        ===
        and what's going on in the outback? in May I talked on skype with my mother. 40 thousandth Kuban town, people everywhere (on the streets and public places) in masks, even with gloves, playgrounds are empty, children walk only accompanied by their parents, police patrols with Cossacks regularly conduct rounds. as a result, there is no influx of patients in the hospital. everything, well, a lot, is in the hands of the people themselves.
        1. avva2012
          10 May 2020 11: 27 New
          +6
          Victor, here we are talking, probably not only a coronavirus, but also about the situation with the whole medicine, its quality and accessibility for a simple person.
    2. minus
      minus 10 May 2020 10: 19 New
      +5
      About a month ago, an ambulance didn’t come to a workmate to call a 6-month-old baby with a temperature of 40 .... Like, call a doctor in the morning, we have a special anticoronavirus regimen ... am
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 10 May 2020 10: 43 New
        +3
        The situation was familiar, it appeared in 99, just in May, the son at that time was a year and two months old.
  15. Ethnarchist
    Ethnarchist 10 May 2020 09: 46 New
    -2
    Talking about the problems of psychiatry while being in the Kunstkamera is the height of cynicism!
  16. aglet
    aglet 10 May 2020 10: 15 New
    +2
    Quote: avva2012
    In most cases, people can be explained

    our authorities have very well learned to explain everything. so that it doesn’t happen, and they’re already explaining, everything that didn’t happen is explained, but nothing is done except explanations
    1. avva2012
      10 May 2020 10: 37 New
      10
      aglet
      our authorities have very well learned to explain everything
      У многих людей уже аллергия начнет проступать после слова "власть", так что надо объяснять простому человеку, как мы все. Да и не объяснять, а просто рассказывать правду, люди сами для себя сделают выводы. Правду, понимаете, только правду! Это самое главное оружие против лжецов, всяких там Сванидзе, кисилевых, против чиновников, которые людей и за грош не ставят. Наш главный врач Алехин И.Н., например сказал, что "ни на какие переговоры со смутьянами не пойдет"[i][/i], т.е., с нами, Профсоюзом. Смутьяны! Не знаю, а я это слово читал только в резолюциях начала 20 века. И как-то казаками с нагайками сразу запахло)) и лицо барина с оттопыренной нижней губой. Эдак цедит сквозь зубы: "запороть на конюшне смутьяна".
      1. aglet
        aglet 10 May 2020 10: 39 New
        +3
        I completely agree with you. but they will never tell the truth, at least out loud for everyone. for everyone, just an explanation
      2. Sling cutter
        Sling cutter 10 May 2020 11: 00 New
        +9
        Quote: avva2012
        У многих людей уже аллергия начнет проступать после слова "власть",

        Dear Comrade! hi True and current power are not compatible concepts. If at least a particle of the true truth comes out to the surface, then the settlers will simply go nuts on what kind of ghouls have been sitting in power for 20 years.
        1. avva2012
          10 May 2020 11: 38 New
          +6
          hi In principle, there is such a forgotten word that very succinctly characterizes what is being done to us: Genocide. For example, there are budget places in medical institutes and not very. So not very, a very tidy sum comes out per year. Plus residency. For some specialties from 200 thousand. per year and above. Where will these graduates go to the clinic for 25 thousand a month?
          For me, over 50, many of my comrades are also many older. We will leave, who will stay? We will have not only hospitals, as in 1913, but doctors, even worse. The Ministry of Health offers medical nurses to sit in outpatient areas ..
          They cannot, yet, since the law does not allow it. Well, what is the problem of the law being corrected? Duma we have what.
          1. Sling cutter
            Sling cutter 10 May 2020 12: 09 New
            +8
            Quote: avva2012
            They cannot, yet, since the law does not allow it. Well, what is the problem of the law being corrected? Duma we have what.
            Reply

            The situation in healthcare is neither better nor worse than in other sectors and nothing will change for the better until the root is eradicated.
  17. aglet
    aglet 10 May 2020 10: 19 New
    +2
    Quote: depressant
    So that a citizen lives in a constant sense of danger

    it is very correctly said, and the authorities constantly escalate this danger through fines, prohibitions, and self-isolation. it seems that this is the main task of power, to escalate
  18. Radikal
    Radikal 10 May 2020 10: 21 New
    0
    Quote: Balu
    Quote: Dead Day
    Quote: Dalny V
    But we don’t want like in France, right?

    I’ll tell you more, we even do not want Ukraine, and like in gabon ... we want both in the USSR!

    Actually. Childhood passed in a slum, albeit in the center of the city. In our small courtyard lived neighbor Venya. They got a three-room apartment for demolition. Sold, bought a Muscovite, and one room. Smashed, bought a motorcycle and a coat without amenities in the city center. I will not continue about his magical deeds and imprisonment in places not so distant. So the nurse from the psychiatric dispensary guarded him to make an appointment, because he ignored the cards. Such was the psychiatric service in the USSR and the medical examination.

    A small question - how could he sell-buy-sell an apartment in the USSR? winked
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 10 May 2020 10: 38 New
      +3
      В СССР сделки с недвижимостью осуществлялись через "Горжилобмен"
      1. avva2012
        10 May 2020 10: 55 New
        +5
        And Anton hi , made an official exchange, and unofficially pay money for extra squares. There was even a movie like this, I do not remember its name, unfortunately. In my opinion, Basov played there.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 10 May 2020 11: 02 New
          +2
          Я предполагал нечто подобное, но за незнанием деталей не стал добавлять в коммент. Знаю только, что "советские риэлторы" жили очень даже хорошо. Общался с одной такой дамой.
    2. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 10 May 2020 10: 42 New
      +5
      Quote: Radikal
      A small question - how could he sell-buy-sell an apartment in the USSR?

      More likely exchanged with surcharge.
      1. alone
        alone 10 May 2020 10: 57 New
        +3
        Quote: Mordvin 3
        More likely exchanged with surcharge.

        Also a very very common option
    3. alone
      alone 10 May 2020 10: 56 New
      +2
      Quote: Radikal
      A small question - how could he sell-buy-sell an apartment in the USSR?

      There were a lot of options ... They sold ... a fictitious marriage with a residence permit, formalized gifts, etc., etc.
      1. cost
        cost 10 May 2020 19: 58 New
        +1
        forgot about cooperative apartments?
        1. alone
          alone 10 May 2020 20: 00 New
          0
          Quote: Rich
          forgot about cooperative apartments?

          No, of course .. I just pointed to those apartments that were then purely on a state balance.
  19. rotkiv04
    rotkiv04 10 May 2020 10: 45 New
    +1
    Unfortunately or fortunately, in Russia it is impossible to fight, we only have a bloody and merciless rebellion. The faith of the Russians in the king who has fallen ill and the bad boyars is endless, but when the land comes, the king is in the lime pit and the boyars under the knife. So everything is likely to end in rebellion and revolution, if they are not optimized before all according to the precepts of the IMF, WHO, any gates and soros
  20. Radikal
    Radikal 10 May 2020 10: 50 New
    +1
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    В СССР сделки с недвижимостью осуществлялись через "Горжилобмен"

    I am aware, the key word here is exchange. Only the author in his commentary writes about sales operations, so I became curious - he is about the USSR, or about the Russian Federation. lol
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 10 May 2020 11: 07 New
      +2
      But the exchange does not exclude shadow financial transactions?
  21. Victorio
    Victorio 10 May 2020 11: 03 New
    -3
    of psychiatry, of course, the restriction / prohibition on publishing on the Internet endless garbage / gossip / provocation / misinformation, as well as the closure of all forums and such discussions, except for special ones with full and reliable registration of participants, should certainly help
    1. avva2012
      10 May 2020 11: 42 New
      +5
      garbage / gossip / provocation / misinformation

      I think, according to your logic, it is necessary to somehow deal with garbage more radically. Divorced here, you see, dissatisfied. The recipe has long been known: Auschwitz, Auschwitz, etc., let them gather there. There will be something to talk about at your leisure.
      p.s. моё ФИО Исаенко Александр Валентинович врач-психиатр высшей категории заведующий отделением №2 Ангарского филиала "ИОПНД". Это так, кстати.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Victorio
        Victorio 10 May 2020 22: 31 New
        -1
        Quote: avva2012
        garbage / gossip / provocation / misinformation

        I think, by your logic, it’s necessary to fight debris somehow more radically. Divorced here, you see, dissatisfied. The recipe has long been known: Auschwitz, Auschwitz, etc., let them gather there. There will be something to talk about at your leisure.
        p.s. моё ФИО Исаенко Александр Валентинович врач-психиатр высшей категории заведующий отделением №2 Ангарского филиала "ИОПНД". It is, by the way.

        ===
        ? ! some kind of gag.
  22. Comrade Michael
    Comrade Michael 10 May 2020 11: 03 New
    +1
    And what to write? Where are we, clearly ... What to do, too ... We have to wait to explode like a nuclear charge ...
  23. veritas
    veritas 10 May 2020 11: 32 New
    +6
    Aw! And where are we, social services of the Russian Federation?

    There is nothing social anymore. Each on its own.
  24. Aviator_
    Aviator_ 10 May 2020 14: 33 New
    +2
    When Govorukhin's famous documentary “Russia We Lost” came out

    Well, what kind of documentary is it, this is a classic propaganda liberal fake, which served as one of the reasons for the destruction of the USSR.
  25. NordUral
    NordUral 10 May 2020 15: 10 New
    +2
    We all go around and around the main conclusion, but do not pronounce the truth: they decided to destroy us and successfully do it. Dumbest of these almost every day they talk and tell us this.
    We agree that we are stupid, that we cannot understand and appreciate this?
  26. faterdom
    faterdom 10 May 2020 15: 23 New
    +2
    What do you mean?
    Want them (high-paid reformers and managers) to run away? How are we without them? Let's get lost after all?
    And we’ll stop loving animals, if this is not included in the constitution! Or maybe you, God forbid, against marriages between a man and a woman? This is already, you know ...
  27. lelik613
    lelik613 10 May 2020 16: 44 New
    0
    Resign? And smear his forehead with brilliant green?
  28. Radikal
    Radikal 10 May 2020 19: 35 New
    0
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    But the exchange does not exclude shadow financial transactions?

    The one about whom he writes is hardly a cool shadowman. bully
  29. Radikal
    Radikal 10 May 2020 19: 35 New
    0
    Quote: lelik613
    Resign? And smear his forehead with brilliant green?

    Start with yourself, and we'll see. lol
  30. begemot20091
    begemot20091 10 May 2020 23: 37 New
    -1
    Quote: avva2012
    Yeah, you immediately determined who mows and who doesn't? Just some kind of genius! And what kind of demon did I study at the institute for 6 years, then 1 year in internship, then every 2 years in GIDUV, every 5 years, confirmation of the certificate?
    That's how it turned out!

    там где вы учились, я преподавал. Надо было года 3 на приеме просидеть, потом ординатуру закончить, потом... Кстати, её(интернатуру) уже как несколько лет отменили. Ну, а про уровень студентов медиков можно много интересного рассказать. И ГИДУВу для меня не звучит... А кушетка, настольная лампа, водка вместо наркоза.... Только не умничайте про 41 год. Это совсем недавно было по историческим меркам. 90-ый год. Про Абрамовича, наверное, тоже интересно, но это другая опера. Уж лучше сразу начинайте со Скворцовой- это актуальней. А про анестезиологов- это, вы батенька, не туда загнули. Не зря у них была ординатура, а у "низшей касты по медицинскому ранжиру" - интернатура. Вы бы ещё фармацевтов приплели или факультет организации.... - там, кстати - 5 лет обучения и интернатуры не надо было.
  31. naburkin
    naburkin 11 May 2020 19: 41 New
    -1
    Quote: avva2012
    begemot20091
    Do not be silly. I have a wife with daughter came - looked.
    You are not saying that which you do not know. With children under 15 years old, in general, entry is prohibited. And again for the deaf. Meetings with relatives only. No strangers are allowed, an adult is a department or a nursery.
    You tell similar things on the street, maybe they will. Although there is no believe on the site, someone put a plus sign to you.
    I do not advise you to drop into the dining room - it will make you sick. A normal dog owner feeds better.

    So I can tell a lot of bad things about medicine, well, sorry about that. The patients who have been fed for the past five years are not very bad and quite diverse. Moreover, in children’s branch. And again, and again, who let your hypothetical wife and daughter not only into the ward, but also into the dining room ??? There are no dining rooms from the word at all.
    So if you write about discipline from the words of doctors or from the words of a teacher who (most often) did not even see patients, I suggest asking people whose relatives are there.

    May I leave this pearl without comment, otherwise it will be banned.
    There are two options: either you talk about the psychiatric hospital of the 90s, it agrees on nutrition, otherwise it doesn’t, or you are brazenly misleading, or rather, trying to do it.
    The only thing true, it’s interesting from whom they heard, is that they release patients for the weekend. Some ( не многих) перед выпиской и это называется "лечебным отпуском".
    What next answer write? laughing

    It seems that the former PND patient is responding to you.)))
  32. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 14 May 2020 11: 17 New
    0
    Naive people are these doctors. Have we solved the problem of homeless people? We decided, and it’s very simple. Blocked their access to heat. Now homeless people simply die out every autumn, creating a magnificent picture. Now the mentally ill will also die out, taking care of the shoulders of the tormented officials ...