In China, said that the purchase of the Ukrainian "Motor Sich" no longer makes much sense

In China, they talked about awarding state awards to the developers of the new generation J-20 fighter. It is also a group of young engineers who were involved in aerodynamic research of the components of the fuselage of an aircraft. At the same time, problems with engines for new generation fighters are recalled. For the first J-20 aircraft were used aviation Russian-made engines AL-31F.

In China, the topics with the failed acquisition of the Ukrainian company Motor Sich are again touching. It is noteworthy that if a few weeks ago, the Celestial press announced that the acquisition by the Chinese companies of the Ukrainian engine manufacturer would bring aircraft engine building to a new level, now different rhetoric is heard. In particular, it is said that the acquisition of Motor Sich no longer makes much sense, since “Chinese manufacturers have created an engine suitable in all respects for 4th generation fighters (this is the Chinese classification of 5th generation fighters). This is the WS-15 aircraft engine.

It is noted that great success was achieved in a very short time.

At the same time, just a few days ago it became known about problems that have not yet been resolved in relation to the WS-15 engine. Military Review reported that one of the main problems is the high fuel consumption during operation of this engine. The use of WS-15 leads to a significant reduction in the combat radius of the J-20 fighter. It is necessary either to increase the volume of fuel tanks (which will reduce the performance characteristics of the fighter and, probably, will affect the mass of weapons taken on board), or continue to refine the WS-15 itself. But if significant improvement is needed, then it is too early to talk about successes.

At the moment, WS-15 turbojet engines provide a thrust of 14,5 tons at a turbine temperature of about 1,4 thousand degrees Celsius. A few months ago, China noted problems with the thrust of these engines when the temperature values ​​of the turbine reached their operating parameters. Whether this problem is solved at the moment, the manufacturer of Chinese power plants for new generation fighters does not report.

Comments

[mitroha]

In particular, it says that the acquisition of Motor Sich no longer makes much sense, as “Chinese manufacturers have created

Blah blah blah
The Chinese shocked Motor Sich on the subject of technology, but the main goal, for which a failed purchase was planned, namely, a breakthrough in the development and production of their engines, was not achieved.
Therefore blah blah blah

[Civil]

1.

Whether this problem is solved at the moment, the manufacturer of Chinese power plants for new generation fighters does not report.

They decide, and where to rush them - the first economy in the world, the dough is immeasurable.
2.

in particular, it says that the acquisition of Motor Sich no longer makes much sense

Here is another of the last gifts of the Soviet government ate.

[svp67]

Quote: Civil

They decide, and where to rush them - the first economy in the world, the dough is immeasurable.

Salvage is of course an important element of success, but not the main ... far from the main

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Mitroha

... but the main goal, for which a failed purchase was started, namely, a breakthrough in the development and production of its engines, was not achieved.

Are you sure about this? What makes you think that the Chinese told about the true state of affairs?

[mitroha]

The true state of affairs is shown by the situation with engines on promising Chinese aircraft.
So the problems with metals have not been solved

[letinant]

Quote: Mitroha

In particular, it says that the acquisition of Motor Sich no longer makes much sense, as “Chinese manufacturers have created

Blah blah blah
The Chinese shocked Motor Sich on the subject of technology, but the main goal, for which a failed purchase was planned, namely, a breakthrough in the development and production of their engines, was not achieved.
Therefore blah blah blah

Motor Sich is a company engaged in the manufacture of engines for the Military Transport Aviation and helicopters (this can be seen from their advertising brochure). For the J-20, slightly different technologies are needed. Although, the Chinese have always had problems with metallurgy, they may have learned something.

[orionvitt]

Quote: Mitroha

The Chinese have shocked Motor Sich regarding technology

Nothing like this. All the technologies the Chinese needed from Motor Sich were sold 15 years ago. So to speak from under the counter. On this occasion, on the "Motor" itself, there was a huge scandal, "they were looking for" who could do it. You might not think clearly. But why they started to buy the enterprise itself is not clear. But obviously not because of technology. Moreover, the nomenclature of "motor" engines is completely different. The Chinese were most interested in helicopter TV3-117, D-136 and D-18 under a heavy transport.

[Avior]

The purchase was launched just because there was no mass sale of technology from Motor to the Chinese, as described in your country. How do you imagine that someone out there from under the floor completely sold the technology?

[orionvitt]

Quote: Avior

How do you imagine that someone out there from under the floor completely sold the technology?

It's very simple, you don't even need to imagine. Those who had the opportunity and access. That is, those who sat in the plant management, in positions close to the general director. (On the "Motor" to the president, as Boguslaev called himself) If they managed to massively take out components from the factory, assemble aircraft engines in nearby garages, and then sell them on the left, with real factory documents. There were such groups working (where the factory bosses, and security guards, and qualified assemblers and other "necessary people" were involved), that mum don't cry. There were several noisy cases.

[Avior]

On Motor, Boguslaev is called the General.
About these stories with the export of parts and counterfeit products at the factory only the lazy did not hear, probably Boguslaev knew about this.
But on the massive sale of technology - this was not observed.
Boguslaev would know very quickly, would be reported in two counts.

[orionvitt]

Quote: Avior

Boguslaev would know very quickly, would be reported in two counts

Do not make gentlemen of God out of Boguslaev. He is surrounded by such bison, who are not even averse to grab a hefty piece for himself.

But on the massive sale of technology - this was not observed

I don’t know how you have information, but this was no secret to anyone. In particular, overhaul technologies for the 78th machine and the twenty.

[Nemchinov Vl]

Quote: orionvitt

If you managed to massively export components from the factory, surrounding garages assemble aircraft engines,

Quote: orionvitt

and then sell to the left, with real factory documents.

you see, the aircraft engine is not a feed distributor from the Orekhovsky Orselmash .... It’s troublesome to collect in the garage ...

[orionvitt]

Quote: Vl Nemchinov

Troublesome in the garage to collect ...

In the presence of components and specialists from the assembly shop, it is very real. Who will refuse to revel on the side. Many, then they were fired from the enterprise.

[Nemchinov Vl]

Quote: orionvitt

Quote: Vl Nemchinov
Troublesome in the garage to collect ...

In the presence of components and specialists from the assembly shop, it is very real. Who will refuse to revel on the side. Many, then they were fired from the enterprise.

Avoid tranquilizers and hallucinogens. Otherwise in the garage aircraft engine personally assemble, without the appropriate equipment ... True, you will be the first in this .... Yes, and you are unlikely to find a buyer who is so brave ....

[orionvitt]

Quote: Vl Nemchinov

Avoid tranquilizers and hallucinogens.

I do not know how it is with you and what is in your head, but I have worked in the production of aircraft engines for over twenty years. With the right approach, anything is possible. I won't assemble the engine in the garage, I'm not an assembler. My main specialty is "a test engineer of aircraft engines" and at the assembly site, I was regularly at work. So on this issue, as in the topic. Unlike you.

[Nemchinov Vl]

Quote: orionvitt

but I'm in the production of aircraft engines, I worked for more than twenty years.

?! and then people will read your comments, such as -

Quote: orionvitt

If you managed to massively export components from the factory, to assemble aircraft engines in the surrounding garages, and then sell left, with real factory documents.

dear Vitaly, and they will begin to think - "and why are the planes falling ?!" (believing you)... Well, at least those who have not tried assemble / repair quality even automobile ...

Quote: orionvitt

So on this issue, like that in the subject.

I correctly highlighted - the keywords in this quote ?!
And yes, the prefixes "that", "either", "something" are usually hyphenated ... Well then ....

[TermNachTer]

So far, the PRC representative office is sitting at the plant and is not going to leave anywhere. And the order for AI - 222 - 25 F, has not been canceled. So, "the next show-off for visitors".

[Avior]

At the factory they say that Boguslaev turned out to be in chocolate - he is not taking the money and is not going to give it away, but the factory remains his property.
And the Chinese have nothing to complain about.
And the order, and their representation - all that is

[TermNachTer]

Well, Boguslaev, in any case will be in the "+". The production of engines is tied to other factories that were not going to sell to the Chinese. And without them in any way or will have to pay extra, and not the fact that they will sell.

[knn54]

1. The language is needed in order to hide your thoughts.
2. If someone often repeats the same thing, it means that he "doubts it".
There is also a problem with engines for the Chinese strategic subsonic stealth bomber. The analogous ones in the USSR were produced by Motor Sich.

[Mavrikiy]

In China, said that the purchase of the Ukrainian "Motor Sich" no longer makes much sense

Correctly. Drawings and technology were purchased from Sich at a low price, and why iron machine rubbish, it costs money.

[Avior]

Such drawings on the Motor have never been
He did not do such engines and does not

[Doccor18]

And why then does China need this plant? Technologies? Personnel?
Not just because the Chinese wanted
get it. And what did
snatch is unknown. But experience
MotorSich noble. And China just does nothing.

[Alex Justice]

Most likely lost under pressure from America.

[Avior]

Motor did and does other engines.
The Chinese need them too

[antivirus]

gl - the rank has everything ahead: "a group of young people .. received awards" as we have 50 years ago

[bar]

the acquisition of Motor Sich no longer makes much sense

"I didn't really want to," the children say when they were teased with the candy, but not given

[Piramidon]

Krylov's fable "Fox and grapes"

[Lopatov]

Quote: bar

"I didn't really want to," the children say when they were teased with the candy, but not given

Children are not so vindictive ....

[Shuttle]

The Chinese comrades are stirring up something. Either they are trying to knock down the price tag, or something else like that. After all, the respected Motor Sich has nothing to do with the AL-31F and similar engines (high-temperature turbojet by-pass engines with afterburners). They have excellent turbofan engines, excellent helicopter gas turbine engines, but alas for supersonic fighters.

[Stas157]

Quote: Shuttle

but for supersonic fighters, alas, as it were

For the Chinese counterpart Yak-130, supersonic aircraft L-15, AI-222-25F make with afterburner.

[Avior]

This is not the engine from which you can take technology for the 5th generation
And the Chinese have it a long time ago in large quantities

[Cyril G ...]

There is. It only works poorly and not for long, four times less than the Al-41. And no one fighters with Chinese engines buy

[Avior]

It was about AI-222-25F
Hundreds deliver it there

[Avior]

Snap to Motor Sich - complete absurdity, Motor never made engines for fighters, except for light combat training

[Thrifty]

It dawned on the Chinese that they themselves could do it faster and cheaper than buying the same MotorSich, all the more, is there simply no necessary technology on the latter? ??

[Cyril G ...]

It's bad to do it yourself ...

[rocket757]

Options - take their word for it or congratulate the Chinese spies ??? Yes, what exactly is the difference to US, it is either there or not, and then let the competent guys sort it out, do we have their agents, what have we got hold of ???

[Singularist]

I fully support. I think that during the negotiations, Chinese intelligence did a good job. I got what I was interested in, acquired traitors in the ranks of the leadership of Motor Sich, and the rest they didn’t really need.

[Andrei Nikolaevich]

Probably, it was so ... At first, penetration into the object, inspection. Only after this is the decision on the need to purchase.

[rocket757]

Diplomat, negotiator, journalist, businessman from the opposite side, a priori SPIEN!
Old as the world, nothing to be surprised.

[Andrei Nikolaevich]

Can not be! How so?! Well, they don’t want to buy a factory, so let them buy at least a couple of embroidered shirts. Well, or colanders and pans of the Maidan from the museum in memory of the Maidan ..

[rotkiv04]

They bought technologies, maybe they brought out specialists, but they don’t need a production base, they have enough CNC machines. After all, they are diligent students of the USSR and have well understood that the most important thing for development is the production of means of production

[voyaka uh]

What does Motor Sich have to do with a jet engine?
They produce engines for helicopters.

[Avior]

No, the nomenclature is much larger
Transport, helicopters, combat training, short-term for the Kyrgyz Republic and others
Reactive too

[bars1]

Engines for An-148, Be-200 ...

[rotmistr60]

now different rhetoric is heard

So this is understandable. When they believed that the company was already in their pocket, then naturally justifying the purchase there were talks about the need to acquire Chinese aircraft industry to advance. As soon as the Americans tore off the deal, it immediately sounded that no more was needed. Given the Chinese mentality and the achievement of the goal in any way, we can confidently say that China will sooner or later solve the problem with the engines.

[Foxmara]

It looks like a bargain, they knock down the price

[Sniper Amateur]

if a few weeks ago, the Celestial press stated that the acquisition by the Chinese companies of a Ukrainian engine manufacturer would allow aircraft engine building to a new level, now different rhetoric is heard. In particular, it is said that the acquisition of Motor Sich no longer makes much sense, since “Chinese manufacturers have created an engine suitable in all respects for 4th generation fighters (this is the Chinese classification of 5th generation fighters). This is the WS-15 aircraft engine.

Demonstrative muzzle on sour affairs. The usual thing.

[Adimius38]

why do they need him now, they bought all the technical documentation with giblets)))))