In China, said that the purchase of the Ukrainian "Motor Sich" no longer makes much sense

In China, said that the purchase of the Ukrainian "Motor Sich" no longer makes much sense

In China, they talked about awarding state awards to the developers of the new generation J-20 fighter. It is also a group of young engineers who were involved in aerodynamic research of the components of the fuselage of an aircraft. At the same time, problems with engines for new generation fighters are recalled. For the first J-20 aircraft were used aviation Russian-made engines AL-31F.


In China, the topics with the failed acquisition of the Ukrainian company Motor Sich are again touching. It is noteworthy that if a few weeks ago, the Celestial press announced that the acquisition by the Chinese companies of the Ukrainian engine manufacturer would bring aircraft engine building to a new level, now different rhetoric is heard. In particular, it is said that the acquisition of Motor Sich no longer makes much sense, since “Chinese manufacturers have created an engine suitable in all respects for 4th generation fighters (this is the Chinese classification of 5th generation fighters). This is the WS-15 aircraft engine.

It is noted that great success was achieved in a very short time.

At the same time, just a few days ago it became known about problems that have not yet been resolved in relation to the WS-15 engine. Military Review reported that one of the main problems is the high fuel consumption during operation of this engine. The use of WS-15 leads to a significant reduction in the combat radius of the J-20 fighter. It is necessary either to increase the volume of fuel tanks (which will reduce the performance characteristics of the fighter and, probably, will affect the mass of weapons taken on board), or continue to refine the WS-15 itself. But if significant improvement is needed, then it is too early to talk about successes.

At the moment, WS-15 turbojet engines provide a thrust of 14,5 tons at a turbine temperature of about 1,4 thousand degrees Celsius. A few months ago, China noted problems with the thrust of these engines when the temperature values ​​of the turbine reached their operating parameters. Whether this problem is solved at the moment, the manufacturer of Chinese power plants for new generation fighters does not report.
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  1. Mitroha 8 May 2020 07: 50 New
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    In particular, it says that the acquisition of Motor Sich no longer makes much sense, as “Chinese manufacturers have created

    Blah blah blah
    The Chinese shocked Motor Sich on the subject of technology, but the main goal, for which a failed purchase was planned, namely, a breakthrough in the development and production of their engines, was not achieved.
    Therefore blah blah blah
    1. Civil 8 May 2020 08: 24 New
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      Whether this problem is solved at the moment, the manufacturer of Chinese power plants for new generation fighters does not report.

      They decide, and where to rush them - the first economy in the world, the dough is immeasurable.
      2.
      in particular, it says that the acquisition of Motor Sich no longer makes much sense

      Here is another of the last gifts of the Soviet government ate.
      1. svp67 8 May 2020 10: 36 New
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        Quote: Civil
        They decide, and where to rush them - the first economy in the world, the dough is immeasurable.

        Salvage is of course an important element of success, but not the main ... far from the main
    2. Krasnoyarsk 8 May 2020 09: 21 New
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      Quote: Mitroha

      ... but the main goal, for which a failed purchase was started, namely, a breakthrough in the development and production of its engines, was not achieved.

      Are you sure about this? What makes you think that the Chinese told about the true state of affairs?
      1. Mitroha 8 May 2020 09: 53 New
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        The true state of affairs is shown by the situation with engines on promising Chinese aircraft.
        So the problems with metals have not been solved
    3. letinant 8 May 2020 09: 36 New
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      Quote: Mitroha
      In particular, it says that the acquisition of Motor Sich no longer makes much sense, as “Chinese manufacturers have created

      Blah blah blah
      The Chinese shocked Motor Sich on the subject of technology, but the main goal, for which a failed purchase was planned, namely, a breakthrough in the development and production of their engines, was not achieved.
      Therefore blah blah blah

      Motor Sich is a company engaged in the manufacture of engines for the Military Transport Aviation and helicopters (this can be seen from their brochure). For the J-20, several other technologies are needed. Although, the Chinese have always had problems with metallurgy, maybe they got something.
    4. orionvitt 8 May 2020 09: 57 New
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      Quote: Mitroha
      The Chinese have shocked Motor Sich regarding technology

      Nothing like this. All the technology needed by the Chinese, with Motor Sich, was sold 15 years ago. So to say from under the floor. On this occasion, on the "Motor" itself, there was a huge scandal, they were "looking" for who could do it. You might not think clearly. But for what they started to buy the enterprise itself, it is not clear. But obviously not because of technology. Moreover, the nomenclature of "engine" engines is completely different. The Chinese were most interested in the helicopter TV3-117, D-136 and D-18 under a heavy transporter.
      1. Avior 8 May 2020 10: 32 New
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        The purchase was launched just because there was no mass sale of technology from Motor to the Chinese, as described in your country. How do you imagine that someone out there from under the floor completely sold the technology?
        1. orionvitt 8 May 2020 10: 43 New
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          Quote: Avior
          How do you imagine that someone out there from under the floor completely sold the technology?

          Very simple, you don’t even have to imagine it. Those who had the opportunity and access. That is, those who were in the plant management, in positions close to the general director. (At the Motor, the president, so Boguslaev called himself) If you managed to massively export components from the plant, assemble aircraft engines in the surrounding garages, and then sell them to the left, with real factory documents. Such groups worked there (where factory bosses, security, skilled assemblers and other "necessary people" were involved) that my mother did not grieve. There were several noisy cases.
          1. Avior 8 May 2020 10: 56 New
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            On Motor, Boguslaev is called the General.
            About these stories with the export of parts and counterfeit products at the factory only the lazy did not hear, probably Boguslaev knew about this.
            But on the massive sale of technology - this was not observed.
            Boguslaev would know very quickly, would be reported in two counts.
            1. orionvitt 8 May 2020 17: 22 New
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              Quote: Avior
              Boguslaev would know very quickly, would be reported in two counts

              Do not make gentlemen of God out of Boguslaev. He is surrounded by such bison, who are not even averse to grab a hefty piece for himself.
              But on the massive sale of technology - this was not observed
              I don’t know how you have information, but this was no secret to anyone. In particular, overhaul technologies for the 78th machine and the twenty.
          2. Nemchinov Vl 8 May 2020 12: 53 New
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            Quote: orionvitt
            If you managed to massively export components from the factory, surrounding garages assemble aircraft engines,
            belay
            Quote: orionvitt
            and then sell to the left, with real factory documents.
            belay you see, the aircraft engine is not a feed distributor from the Orekhovsky Orselmash .... It’s troublesome to collect in the garage ... recourse
            1. orionvitt 8 May 2020 17: 11 New
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              Quote: Nemchinov Vl
              Troublesome in the garage to collect ...

              In the presence of components and specialists from the assembly shop, it is very real. Who will refuse to revel on the side. Many, then they were fired from the enterprise.
              1. Nemchinov Vl 10 May 2020 18: 05 New
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                Quote: orionvitt
                Quote: Nemchinov Vl
                Troublesome in the garage to collect ...


                In the presence of components and specialists from the assembly shop, it is very real. Who will refuse to revel on the side. Many, then they were fired from the enterprise.
                belay
                Avoid tranquilizers and hallucinogens. Otherwise in the garage aircraft engine personally assemble, without the appropriate equipment ... True, you will be the first in this .... Yes, and you are unlikely to find a buyer who is so brave .... what hi
                1. orionvitt 10 May 2020 20: 56 New
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                  Quote: Nemchinov Vl
                  Avoid tranquilizers and hallucinogens.

                  I don’t know how you have it and what’s in my head, but I’ve worked in the production of aircraft engines for more than twenty years. With the right approach, anything is possible. I can’t assemble the engine in the garage, I am not a collector. My main specialty is "a test engineer in aircraft engines" and at the assembly site, I visited regularly, for work. So on this issue, such as the topic. Unlike you.
                  1. Nemchinov Vl 11 May 2020 02: 36 New
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                    Quote: orionvitt
                    but I'm in the production of aircraft engines, I worked for more than twenty years.
                    ?! and then lol people will read your comments, such as -
                    Quote: orionvitt
                    If you managed to massively export components from the factory, to assemble aircraft engines in the surrounding garages, and then sell left, with real factory documents.
                    belay dear Vitaly, and they will begin to think, “and why do planes fall?!” (believing you). recourse request Well, at least those who have not tried assemble / repair quality even automobile ... sad
                    Quote: orionvitt
                    So on this issue, like that in the subject.
                    I correctly highlighted - the keywords in this quote ?! winked
                    And yes, the prefixes "then", "either", "either" are usually written with a hyphen ... hi Well then .... what
    5. TermNachTer 8 May 2020 11: 20 New
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      So far, the PRC representative is sitting at the plant and is not going to leave anywhere. And the order for AI - 222 - 25 F, no one has canceled. So, "next show-off for visitors."
      1. Avior 8 May 2020 12: 19 New
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        At the factory they say that Boguslaev turned out to be in chocolate - he is not taking the money and is not going to give it away, but the factory remains his property.
        And the Chinese have nothing to complain about.
        And the order, and their representation - all that is
        1. TermNachTer 8 May 2020 13: 55 New
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          Well, Boguslaev, in any case, will be in "+". The manufacture of engines is tied to other plants that the Chinese were not going to sell. And without them there’s no way or will have to pay extra yet, and not the fact that they will sell.
    6. knn54 8 May 2020 13: 06 New
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      1. The language is needed in order to hide your thoughts.
      2. If someone often often repeats the same thing, then he "doubts it".
      There is also a problem with the engines for the Chinese strategic subsonic stealth bomber. Alogic in the USSR produced "Motor Sich."
  2. Mavrikiy 8 May 2020 07: 51 New
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    In China, said that the purchase of the Ukrainian "Motor Sich" no longer makes much sense
    Correctly. Drawings and technology were purchased from Sich at a low price, and why iron machine rubbish, it costs money.
    1. Avior 8 May 2020 08: 05 New
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      Such drawings on the Motor have never been
      He did not do such engines and does not
      1. Doccor18 8 May 2020 08: 49 New
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        And why then does China need this plant? Technologies? Personnel?
        Not just because the Chinese wanted
        get it. And what did
        snatch is unknown. But experience
        MotorSich noble. And China just does nothing.
        1. Alex Justice 8 May 2020 11: 25 New
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          Most likely lost under pressure from America.
        2. Avior 8 May 2020 12: 20 New
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          Motor did and does other engines.
          The Chinese need them too
  3. antivirus 8 May 2020 07: 58 New
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    hl - the ranks are ahead: "a group of young people .. received awards" as we have 50 years ago
  4. bar
    bar 8 May 2020 08: 00 New
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    the acquisition of Motor Sich no longer makes much sense

    "Not really wanted," the children say when they were teased with candy, but did not give
    1. Piramidon 8 May 2020 08: 18 New
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      Krylov's fable "Fox and grape"
    2. Lopatov 8 May 2020 08: 26 New
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      Quote: bar
      "Not really wanted," the children say when they were teased with candy, but did not give

      Children are not so vindictive ....
  5. Shuttle 8 May 2020 08: 01 New
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    The Chinese comrades are stirring something. Either they are trying to bring down the price tag, or something else like that. Indeed, the respected Motor Sich has nothing to do with the AL-31F and similar engines (high-temperature turbojet dual-circuit with afterburners). They have excellent turbofan engines, excellent helicopter gas turbine engines, but for supersonic fighters, alas, as it were.
    1. Stas157 8 May 2020 09: 18 New
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      Quote: Shuttle
      but for supersonic fighters, alas, as it were

      For the Chinese counterpart Yak-130, supersonic aircraft L-15, AI-222-25F make with afterburner.
      1. Avior 8 May 2020 10: 26 New
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        This is not the engine from which you can take technology for the 5th generation
        And the Chinese have it a long time ago in large quantities
        1. Cyril G ... 9 May 2020 22: 00 New
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          There is. It only works poorly and not for long, four times less than the Al-41. And no one fighters with Chinese engines buy
          1. Avior 9 May 2020 22: 02 New
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            It was about AI-222-25F
            Hundreds deliver it there
  6. Avior 8 May 2020 08: 04 New
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    Snap to Motor Sich - complete absurdity, Motor never made engines for fighters, except for light combat training
  7. Thrifty 8 May 2020 08: 19 New
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    It dawned on the Chinese that they themselves could do it faster and cheaper than buying the same MotorSich, all the more, is there simply no necessary technology on the latter? ??
    1. Cyril G ... 9 May 2020 22: 01 New
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      It's bad to do it yourself ...
  8. rocket757 8 May 2020 08: 19 New
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    Options - take their word for it or congratulate the Chinese spies ??? Yes, what exactly is the difference to US, it is either there or not, and then let the competent guys sort it out, do we have their agents, what have we got hold of ???
    1. Singularist 8 May 2020 09: 16 New
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      I fully support. I think that during the negotiations, Chinese intelligence did a good job. I got what I was interested in, acquired traitors in the ranks of the leadership of Motor Sich, and the rest they didn’t really need.
      1. Andrei Nikolaevich 8 May 2020 09: 23 New
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        Probably, it was so ... At first, penetration into the object, inspection. Only after this is the decision on the need to purchase.
      2. rocket757 8 May 2020 09: 42 New
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        Diplomat, negotiator, journalist, businessman from the opposite side, a priori SPIEN!
        Old as the world, nothing to be surprised.
  9. Andrei Nikolaevich 8 May 2020 09: 22 New
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    Can not be! How so?! Well, they don’t want to buy a factory, so let them buy at least a couple of embroidered shirts. Well, or colanders and pans of the Maidan from the museum in memory of the Maidan ..
  10. rotkiv04 8 May 2020 09: 47 New
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    They bought technologies, maybe they brought out specialists, but they don’t need a production base, they have enough CNC machines. After all, they are diligent students of the USSR and have well understood that the most important thing for development is the production of means of production
  11. voyaka uh 8 May 2020 10: 39 New
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    What does Motor Sich have to do with a jet engine?
    They produce engines for helicopters.
    1. Avior 8 May 2020 11: 01 New
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      No, the nomenclature is much larger
      Transport, helicopters, combat training, short-term for the Kyrgyz Republic and others
      Reactive too
    2. bars1 8 May 2020 11: 05 New
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      Engines for An-148, Be-200 ...
      1. The comment was deleted.
  12. rotmistr60 8 May 2020 11: 41 New
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    now different rhetoric is heard
    So this is understandable. When they believed that the company was already in their pocket, then naturally justifying the purchase there were talks about the need to acquire Chinese aircraft industry to advance. As soon as the Americans tore off the deal, it immediately sounded that no more was needed. Given the Chinese mentality and the achievement of the goal in any way, we can confidently say that China will sooner or later solve the problem with the engines.
  13. Foxmara 8 May 2020 15: 05 New
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    It looks like a bargain, they knock down the price
  14. Sniper Amateur 9 May 2020 15: 47 New
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    if a few weeks ago, the Celestial press stated that the acquisition by the Chinese companies of a Ukrainian engine manufacturer would allow aircraft engine building to a new level, now different rhetoric is heard. In particular, it is said that the acquisition of Motor Sich no longer makes much sense, since “Chinese manufacturers have created an engine suitable in all respects for 4th generation fighters (this is the Chinese classification of 5th generation fighters). This is the WS-15 aircraft engine.

    Demonstrative muzzle on sour affairs. The usual thing.
  15. Adimius38 9 May 2020 21: 36 New
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    why do they need him now, they bought all the technical documentation with giblets)))))