Military Review

Wheel tanks "Type 16" for Japan Self-Defense Forces

132

main Tanks "Type 74" - they are planned to be replaced with wheeled "Type 16"


A few years ago it became known about the plans of the Japanese Ministry of Defense in terms of modernizing the fleet of equipment of the Land Self-Defense Forces. Among other things, these plans provide for the gradual decommissioning of the main battle tanks of the old types with their simultaneous replacement with modern equipment in the form of wheeled armored vehicles "Type 16". The latter has already gone into series and is entering the troops.

Prospective program


The Type 16 combat vehicle with cannon and machine gun weapons or the Maneuver Combat Vehicle (MCV) is a “wheeled tank” created with the new plans of the Self-Defense Forces. The main requirements for the "Type 16" affected combat qualities and mobility. It was necessary to ensure combat qualities not lower than the old MBT “Type 74”, as well as improved mobility and the ability to transport by air existing and promising military transport aircraft.

The development of the future MCV was carried out by the Technical Research & Development Institute; Mitsubishi Heavy Industries entrusted the production of experienced and serial equipment. Development work has been ongoing since 2007, and soon the first prototype was submitted for testing. State tests were held in 2014-15, after which the Type 16 received a recommendation for adoption.

Based on the requirements, a 26-ton machine was created on a four-axle all-wheel drive chassis with a 570-hp diesel engine. Armor protects small-caliber guns and rocket-propelled grenade launchers from fire. Armament in the form of a 105-mm rifled gun and two machine guns of different calibers is mounted on a triple tower. The car has a speed of up to 100 km / h and has a power reserve of 400 km.


Prototype MCV 2013

Orders and deliveries


The first order for serial production of MCV wheeled tanks appeared in 2016. It envisaged the supply of 36 armored vehicles in the coming years. In fiscal 2016 Mitsubishi company carried out part of the required work, but until the end of the year did not transfer the finished equipment to the customer. Deliveries began in 2017, and this year almost all ordered cars were delivered - 33 units out of 36.

In the same 2017, the Ministry of Defense placed a new order for 33 pieces of equipment. In 2018, only 18 were limited to the order. The production period of 2018 began with the completion of the last part of the order from 2016, after which the equipment contracted in 2017 went into production. A total of 36 wheeled tanks were delivered the year before last, which made it possible to close all previous orders.

In 2019, serial production continued, but was conducted at a slower pace. According to The Military Balance 2020, it was possible to build at least 15 armored vehicles - half as much as in previous years. However, this almost completely closed the contract of 2018. Also last year, a new order for 29 pieces of equipment appeared. Its implementation is underway right now, and the Self-Defense Forces regularly receive ready-made MCVs.

Recently appeared in foreign media news about the possibility of another order. The current defense budget for fiscal 2020 provides for the purchase of another 33 Type 16 armored vehicles with a total value of 23,7 billion yen (approx. 2,2 billion US dollars). Possible delivery dates for finished equipment under such a contract are not specified.


At the same time, it is clear that such an order will not take a lot of time. Mitsubishi Heavy Industries and subcontractors have already proven to be reliable performers. It can be assumed that when signing the necessary papers this year, the finished equipment will arrive in the troops no later than 2021-22.

Thus, to date, 116 wheeled tanks “Type 16” have been contracted. Another order for 33 units. will appear soon. The industry has manufactured and already transferred to the customer at least 85-90 armored vehicles. A certain amount of equipment is at different stages of construction and will be commissioned in the near future.

According to the announced plans, MCV production will continue until 2026. For this, new orders for equipment may appear in the coming years. The total number of combat vehicles should reach the level of 250-300 units, which will make it possible to carry out all the planned re-equipment measures.

Troop deployment


The first serial “Type 16” MCV arrived in the part of the Ground Self-Defense Forces in 2017. Rather high production rates made it possible to form several units fully equipped with such equipment as soon as possible. To date, MCV, despite its still limited numbers, have become quite widespread and are used in all major strategic areas.


It is known about the deployment of new wheeled tanks in five parts almost throughout Japan. As part of the Northern Army, the 10th Rapid Reaction Regiment of the 11th Ground Forces Brigade received such equipment. In the Northeast Army, Type 16 already operates the 22nd Rapid Response Regiment of the 6th Division. In the Central Army - the 15th regiment of the 14th brigade. In the Western Army, two formations already received equipment - the 42nd regiment of the 8th division and the 4th reconnaissance battalion of the 4th division.

In the near future, it is expected to create new or reform the existing quick reaction regiments as part of different brigades and divisions. The armament of these parts will come newly released wheeled tanks. To date, the Self-Defense Forces have managed to get less than half of the planned amount of Type 16, which may indicate the future rearmament of a number of other units.

Tank instead of tank


The main goal of the current processes is to change the structure of the Ground Self-Defense Forces in accordance with modern requirements and to replace their obsolete equipment. Using promising wheeled tanks, the MCV proposes to replace both the old Type 74 MBTs and the newer Type 90 MBTs, which do not fully suit the command.

Currently, there are 200 old Type 74 tanks, 341 later Type 90 tanks, and 76 modern Type 10 tanks in Japanese tank units. The total number of the park is 617 units. Given the recently delivered wheeled armored vehicles - over 700 units. By 2025-26 command plans to reduce the number of main tanks in favor of modern wheeled armored vehicles. The intention was to reduce their number to 300 units.


Serial machine "Type 16" in the army, 2017

According to various estimates, the planned modernization of the armored units provides for the complete abandonment of the obsolete MBT "Type 74". Also, a significant amount of “Type 90” will be withdrawn (or written off) to the reserve, although most of them will continue to serve.

Thus, since the middle of the current decade, the basis of armored units, including rapid response units will be the main tanks "Type 90" (approx. 200 units) and a similar number of wheeled "Type 16". Modern MBT "Type 10" can not yet claim numerical superiority. Nevertheless, they remain in the series, and in the future they can supplant older predecessors.

It is curious that replacing the obsolete MBT “Type 74” with a modern wheeled vehicle “Type 16” is unlikely to have negative consequences in the context of combat capabilities. Losing in defense, Type 16 has similar or better firepower. In addition, the wheeled tank is characterized by modern equipment for various purposes, simplifying the conduct of battle and increasing its effectiveness.

However, the main advantages of the “Type 16” are connected precisely with the mass and the wheeled chassis. This technique is able to quickly get to the specified area on its own on highways. The limited mass allows it to be transported by airplanes of various types, including The latest Kawasaki C-2 transporter. In terms of tactical and strategic mobility, the MCV is superior to the "traditional" tanks. "


Desired Results


All ongoing work on the construction of new armored vehicles and the rearmament of units is directly related to the program for creating rapid response formations. Such regiments and battalions need armored combat vehicles with sufficient firepower and high mobility. Old MBTs do not correspond to a similar concept, which is why it is proposed to abandon them.

It is proposed that quick response regiments be kept on constant duty and, if necessary, transferred to the desired area. With their help, it is planned to quickly and efficiently organize or strengthen defense in the necessary areas in Japan, including on numerous small islands. In addition, they can find application in foreign peacekeeping operations.

Thus, the Self-Defense Forces developed a new concept for the development of ground forces and advanced equipment for its requirements, and then proceeded to the implementation of plans and have already obtained very real results. Current processes will end in the middle of the decade, and as a result, the Ground Self-Defense Forces will receive a modern and effective tool for solving existing problems in the characteristic conditions of an island nation.
Author:
Photos used:
Japanese Ministry of Defense
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  1. rocket757
    rocket757 11 May 2020 18: 20 New
    -3
    Why did they fasten branches? Are they going to enter the forest?
    Strange some.
    1. psiho117
      psiho117 11 May 2020 19: 02 New
      +8
      Quote: rocket757
      Are they going to enter the forest?

      But you still do not see the forest in the background?
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 11 May 2020 19: 09 New
        -8
        And we see the road along which the tank goes and do not understand their intentions, if they suddenly ate in the forest. Why get the wheels dirty, then have to wash.
        1. psiho117
          psiho117 11 May 2020 19: 11 New
          +2
          roads are for delivery equipment to the place of the database. And there even in the forest, even in the mountains, where they command bully
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 11 May 2020 19: 13 New
            +1
            Order, there is an order, this is not discussed .....
    2. Paul Siebert
      Paul Siebert 11 May 2020 19: 29 New
      +4
      Quote: rocket757
      Why did they fasten branches? Are they going to enter the forest?
      Strange some.

      How's Goblin in Two Torn Towers?
      "In the woods came the peanuts ..."
    3. svp67
      svp67 12 May 2020 04: 21 New
      -1
      Quote: rocket757
      Why did they fasten branches? Are they going to enter the forest?

      There, the vegetation grows well, ordinary grass, during warm time it can be two meters tall. So, in the coastal zone there may be dense vegetation, and these tanks are good for operations against air and sea landing.
      In general, an interesting car. Due to the abandonment of the uninhabited tower, they reduced the silhouette of the armored hull, thereby achieving a general reduction in the silhouette of the combat vehicle, and its greater stability when fired from a gun, we could use this experience to create a wheeled tank based on the Boomerang
      1. VicktorVR
        VicktorVR 12 May 2020 07: 18 New
        +1
        In Boomerang, it was necessary to shove the squad for the landing ...
        1. svp67
          svp67 12 May 2020 08: 06 New
          0
          Quote: VicktorVR
          In Boomerang, it was necessary to shove the squad for the landing ...

          But in the base model, it is, but in the version of the wheeled tank at its base, apparently it is better to abandon it ... rather, significantly reducing
      2. rocket757
        rocket757 12 May 2020 08: 46 New
        +4
        That’s not a tanker, no matter how much, I’m not getting into a discussion ....
        However, I understand that the statement that “mud tanks are not afraid” is very conditional, heavy equipment will get stuck in the mud even like that! The wheel gets stuck more often, it's just the laws of physics or stupidity, it doesn’t matter, this is the case. So the priority of tracked vehicles, for our conditions, is probably justified.
        1. svp67
          svp67 12 May 2020 09: 54 New
          +4
          Quote: rocket757
          The wheel gets stuck more often, it's just the laws of physics or stupidity, it doesn’t matter, this is the case. So the priority of tracked vehicles, for our conditions, is probably justified.

          The value of wheeled vehicles increases with the development of networks of excellent roads, this is present in our European part, so there is a sense of their appearance. Wheel equipment has clear advantages in speed, which means in efficiency and greater engine life
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 12 May 2020 10: 45 New
            0
            Quote: svp67
            Wheel equipment has clear advantages in speed, which means in efficiency and greater engine life

            This is just understandable, especially to the European part of the country. In addition, the possibility of exporting equipment to different regions of the world should be borne in mind.
            I, the Japanese wheeled tank did not discuss in any way, just joked.
            The general global trend towards an increase in wheeled heavy equipment is taking place; this cannot be overlooked.
  2. Reserve buildbat
    Reserve buildbat 11 May 2020 18: 21 New
    +6
    That is, these wheeled vehicles are mainly for replacing the ancient "Type 74"? Thanks for the explanation. Now the logic is clear. What is the difference, the power of an incoming projectile is enough to destroy this machine with a probability of 100% from any angle or with a probability of 300%. If the hit is already a coffin, then you should pay attention to indirect methods of protection. For example, maneuverability, speed and camouflage.
    1. Usher
      Usher 11 May 2020 19: 03 New
      +2
      Absolutely right
    2. English tarantas
      English tarantas 12 May 2020 11: 31 New
      0
      The layout and volumes of the reserved space also matter. The penetration of Soviet tanks on board, for example, is likely to send them to ferrous metal, hitting this tarantass on board may send it not to ferrous metal, but at least for a good repair.
  3. Volzhanin64
    Volzhanin64 11 May 2020 18: 22 New
    +1
    Something seems to me that this is an easy target for ATGM
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Stalllker
      Stalllker 11 May 2020 18: 30 New
      -2
      30 mm is enough for him
    3. English tarantas
      English tarantas 12 May 2020 11: 34 New
      -1
      Like other armored vehicles.
  4. Stalllker
    Stalllker 11 May 2020 18: 31 New
    +2
    Road "tank" some
    1. strannik1985
      strannik1985 11 May 2020 19: 03 New
      +1
      Namely, mobility on public roads, BTA aircraft, the main purpose is anti-airborne defense.
      1. Stalllker
        Stalllker 11 May 2020 20: 10 New
        -2
        Our T-80 is also quite "mobile", but only this is a tank !!! And this is a craft, a coffin on eight "legs"
        1. strannik1985
          strannik1985 11 May 2020 21: 02 New
          0
          Our T-80 is also quite "mobile"

          The conditions are different, they have PDO of mountainous islands, we have battles with militants in the city.
      2. Graz
        Graz 11 May 2020 22: 51 New
        0
        are you laughing? wheeled tank on the defensive? it is suitable only for a quick raid deep into the territory, when defenses are breached at the breakout site or for quick reaction forces for transport by plane, where the overall weight does not crawl through, although it is not clear for the Japanese as a whole the general weight is not so heavy in weight
        1. Stalllker
          Stalllker 11 May 2020 23: 53 New
          -1
          how do you know what it is good for? Is there any experience?
  5. gabonskijfront
    gabonskijfront 11 May 2020 18: 37 New
    +5
    Japan is vulnerable to any military threat, like a geisha’s house in front of the tsunami. 140 million people who have nowhere to go from through the sweeping islands.
    1. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 11 May 2020 23: 25 New
      +2
      Quote: gabonskijfront
      like a geisha house in front of a tsunami

      haiku
      "...... People are funny
      Frightened by the tsunami
      To my impregnable cliff .... "
  6. KVU-NSVD
    KVU-NSVD 11 May 2020 18: 45 New
    +4
    Well, it’s hardly pulling on a tank. The armor is about nothing (it’s interesting that KAZ will be delivered at least), the cannon is not an ale (for modern MBTs and fighting them naturally). Rather, self-propelled guns to support the landing. But probably their concept of alleged military operations fits
    1. psiho117
      psiho117 11 May 2020 19: 09 New
      +5
      Quote: KVU-NSVD
      gun no ale for modern MBT and fight against them naturally

      and where does the modern enemy MBT in the Japanese islands come from?
      The Chinese will not fight - their path of economic expansion is 100% satisfied
      Eun has no fleet, MBT is not. But there are Hwason, they cannon caliber guns.
      Plus - Jap fleet is one of the best in the region. No landing will sail.
      1. strannik1985
        strannik1985 11 May 2020 19: 17 New
        +2
        The Chinese will not fight

        Come on, how long have graters been for the Spratly archipelago?
        Just each brick has its own place.
        1. psiho117
          psiho117 11 May 2020 19: 20 New
          +1
          and they still go. There, everyone in the district considers these islands to be their own - but they will not fight for them.
          But look far, Japa and the Kuril Islands consider their ...
          But again, they will not fight for them.
          1. strannik1985
            strannik1985 11 May 2020 19: 50 New
            0
            So the military and needed to fight was too expensive.
    2. Reserve buildbat
      Reserve buildbat 11 May 2020 19: 12 New
      +4
      What modern MBT are we talking about? You just imagine how much time and effort it will take to transfer to Japan at least a pair of tank regiments armed even with our T-90s, not to mention the NATO “mastodons”. So the gun perfectly meets the tasks of the airborne defense. Against armored personnel carriers, infantry fighting vehicles, BMD, MTLB is very effective, and from large distances.
      1. Doccor18
        Doccor18 11 May 2020 19: 52 New
        +3
        And who, interestingly, will land on Japanese islands?
        For what purpose?
        If you fight with Japan, then by aviation, navy and cruise missiles.
        And another interesting trend is the widespread reduction in the number of MBT in the armed forces. As in WWII, of course it’s not realistic, but 200-300 for the whole army is frankly small.
        And these wheeled carriers of the guns, the tank or the "tank destroyer" language does not turn to name.
        1. ser56
          ser56 11 May 2020 21: 34 New
          -1
          Quote: Doccor18
          then aviation, navy and cruise missiles.

          a couple of bullse and silence, everyone is engaged in survival .... wink
        2. Crimean partisan 1974
          Crimean partisan 1974 12 May 2020 19: 28 New
          0
          If you fight with Japan, then aviation, navy and cruise missiles ....... that's for sure
  7. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 11 May 2020 19: 02 New
    +2
    All is correct. The Japanese bungled a light, cheap machine with a diesel engine. It should be borne in mind the dense soils with a stone base in Japan, You can drive on the roads of Japan, and more serious tracked storage.
    to strengthen the defense in the right directions in Japan, including on numerous small islands.
    Here, here, a quick transfer, by plane, helicopter, convertiplanes received in time, by the courts.
    In addition, they can find application in foreign peacekeeping operations.
    This is a question. It depends on where and which ones. To strengthen police operations, for God's sake. And fighting in soft soils, only normal MBT.
    1. ser56
      ser56 11 May 2020 21: 33 New
      0
      Quote: Mavrikiy
      cheap typewriter

      for 66 million bucks? hi
      1. Slon1978
        Slon1978 12 May 2020 05: 22 New
        0
        I was also embarrassed by the price - $ 2,2 billion for 33 cars, this is $ 66,7 million per unit - the price of one tank as a fighter. Maybe a mistake?
  8. Pavel57
    Pavel57 11 May 2020 19: 05 New
    -1
    So is it tanks or self-propelled guns?
    1. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 11 May 2020 20: 43 New
      +1
      Tanks to combat BMP, armored personnel carriers, infantry, fortifications, the same tanks as himself. Generally amphibious. Although probably if some kind of spike can stick and against MBT something.
  9. Ravil_Asnafovich
    Ravil_Asnafovich 11 May 2020 19: 09 New
    -3
    Hmm, here you don’t know what to say, and on what is it to them ???
  10. Yuri Ilyakhin
    Yuri Ilyakhin 11 May 2020 19: 54 New
    -1
    With a mass of 26 tons and having an engine modality of 570 hp this is not a tank, rather a heavy infantry fighting vehicle.
    1. English tarantas
      English tarantas 12 May 2020 11: 40 New
      +2
      Power density hp per tonne of weight ~ 21-22, about the same as domestic MBT, what do you dislike?
  11. 7,62h54
    7,62h54 11 May 2020 21: 00 New
    -8
    I’m blowing you samurai, not the Kuril Islands. And the wheels will not help.
  12. ser56
    ser56 11 May 2020 21: 32 New
    0
    and 2020 f. provides for the purchase of another 33 Type 16 armored vehicles with a total value of 23,7 billion yen (approx. 2,2 billion US dollars) 2,2 yards / 33 = 66,67 million .... at the price of an airplane ... bully
    1. merkava-2bet
      merkava-2bet 11 May 2020 22: 26 New
      +3
      The cost of the yen goes 100 to 1, that is, 100 yen is equal to $ 0,93, and that $ 254838710, or about $ 255 million, divided by 33, we get $ 7,7 million per item.
      1. ser56
        ser56 11 May 2020 23: 07 New
        +1
        Quote: merkava-2bet
        , we get $ 7,7 million for a little thing.

        thanks - trusted the author .... repeat
        1. Graz
          Graz 12 May 2020 00: 56 New
          0
          even for $ 7,7 million per piece it is very expensive
          for such a craft
          1. merkava-2bet
            merkava-2bet 12 May 2020 01: 05 New
            +3
            This includes all expenses, research, testing and the most advanced electronics. The Japanese fellows in the BTT, the first tank is a breakthrough type 90, then type 10 and now this one.
            1. bistrov.
              bistrov. 12 May 2020 05: 45 New
              +1
              The French have been using wheeled tanks since the 60s, these are the Panar and AMG-10, and they are floating. They are also armed with a 105 mm cannon. True, they are considered to be reconnaissance vehicles. The latter are still in service.
              And what do you see a “breakthrough” in?
              1. merkava-2bet
                merkava-2bet 12 May 2020 10: 02 New
                +1
                Read about the tank type 90, and then about the type 10, and you can compare with the T-90.
                Make the analysis impartial, based on facts and conclusions.
                1. ser56
                  ser56 12 May 2020 13: 28 New
                  +1
                  Quote: merkava-2bet
                  Make an impartial analysis based on facts and conclusions

                  a set of good wishes in response to a simple request ... request
                  Quote: merkava-2bet
                  Japanese fellows in BTT, the first tank breakthrough type 90

                  Japanese tanks were not famous for military use, and tanks are intended for battle ... request
                  1. merkava-2bet
                    merkava-2bet 12 May 2020 17: 12 New
                    +1
                    And which tanks do you think have become famous in battle, and what does it mean to become famous?
                    1. ser56
                      ser56 12 May 2020 19: 21 New
                      -1
                      I do not see any reason to explain something to you about the banal request
                    2. Crimean partisan 1974
                      Crimean partisan 1974 12 May 2020 19: 52 New
                      -1
                      And which tanks do you think have become famous in battle, and what does it mean to become famous? .... T-72
                      He withstood 23 hits in Grozny and on his own arrived at the base, WHO IS MORE?
                      1. merkava-2bet
                        merkava-2bet 12 May 2020 21: 00 New
                        +2
                        Photo and description of the tank, which part. At the moment I heard and read about 11 allegedly getting into the tank, in November-December 1994, the T-72 tank with DZ Kontakt-1, details in the magazine Frontline Illustration, two issues . But again, it is written from the words of the crew, there are not all photos of hits in the tank, only a part.
                      2. merkava-2bet
                        merkava-2bet 12 May 2020 22: 13 New
                        +3
                        Here is described in detail the fighting in 1994-1995 in Grozny.

  • gorenina91
    gorenina91 12 May 2020 04: 09 New
    -2
    - Personally, I'm not an expert; but still you can imagine - how long this tank will continue to swing on its wheels, after firing from its gun ... -And even then-it will go back after the shot ...- and the hand brake will not hold ... -Hahah. ..-joke ...
    1. Brylevsky
      Brylevsky 12 May 2020 17: 06 New
      +1
      one can imagine how long this tank will continue to swing on its wheels, after firing from its gun ...

      1. gorenina91
        gorenina91 12 May 2020 18: 11 New
        0
        -In this video, it is not clear with shots from these tanks ... -The impression is that they are not shooting with standard shells, but they are firing from their guns with some kind of fake charges ...
        1. Brylevsky
          Brylevsky 12 May 2020 18: 56 New
          +1
          It seems that they are shooting not with standard shells, but they are firing from their guns with some imitation fake charges ...

          Watch carefully, here is the same video, only from a different angle:

          As you can see, the buildup of the body of the wheeled tank after the shot is approximately at the level of its caterpillar counterpart ...
          1. gorenina91
            gorenina91 12 May 2020 19: 32 New
            0
            - So what does this tank shoot with? -If he has a rifled 105 mm gun, then he cannot shoot rockets with guided projectiles ... -And here you can see how the shells fly after the shot, and then jump over the hill like balls ... -What kind of shells?
            -It is obvious that the tanks are firing with some kind of "lightweight charges" ...- there isn’t such a buildup of the hull ... -I somehow happened to observe how our T-72 fired with standard shells ...- it’s such an impression, that the tank bounces ...
            -So it was a "heavy T-72"; not this fake Japanese "type -14" ...
            1. Brylevsky
              Brylevsky 12 May 2020 19: 57 New
              0
              And here you can see how the shells fly after the shot, and then jump over the hill like balls ... -What kind of shells?

              Oh my God...
              A tracer is built into the bottom of the shell. This is necessary so that the gunner and / or tank commander can adjust the shooting. The tracer is lit in red (so that it doesn’t blind much at night and that there is a contrast against the background of greenery during the day), during the burning process the tracer composition will emit smoke that trails behind the projectile ... When it hits the ground, the armor-piercing projectile reoccurs, makes a “candle” into the sky or to the side. This applies not only to shells, - to any solid body moving at high speed.
              Obviously, the tanks shoot with some kind of "lightweight charges" ...- from that there is no such buildup of the corps ...

              What's the point? When there are full-time shots to the cannon ... At the training ground, while studying, they use supplementary barrels for a reduced caliber, but in the video there are not exercises, but flashy shootings. I do not think that Japanese tankers fired with practical shells. However, this is just my guess.
              I happened to somehow observe how our T-72 fired with standard shells ... - so it seems that the tank bounces ...
              -So it was a "heavy T-72"; not this fake Japanese "type -14" ...

              The energy of the shot is not comparable. 125 mm and 105; projectile mass and charge; barrel length. Why are you so worried about the buildup? Well, the case will swing ... but the gun is stabilized.
              1. gorenina91
                gorenina91 12 May 2020 20: 06 New
                +1
                The energy of the shot is not comparable. 125 mm and 105; projectile mass and charge; barrel length.

                -Ha ... = So the weight of the T-72 tank and the weight of this Japanese "type -14" ...- are also "not comparable" ...
  • Brylevsky
    Brylevsky 12 May 2020 07: 36 New
    +6
    In defense of common sense
    Comrades, it seems to me that behind a fascinating polemic in the style of "who is longer and thicker" (gun and armor, and not what you thought about), we completely lose sight of the geographical and economic conditions of Japan. This is a country with a well-developed network of excellent roads; approximately 1/4 of the country can be crossed along the Inland Sea. Using even only a part of the car carriers of companies such as MOL and NYK, the entire tank fleet of the Japanese Self-Defense Forces, you can transport from Osaka to Shimonoseki in less than a day, or vice versa. This is not taking into account the Japanese landing ships, which also exist. I emphasize - tank park. Wheel tanks do not need this, they can and will use the existing road network, this is their main competitive advantage. This will greatly simplify transport logistics: no need to use the railway; no tank tractors needed - trawls. In addition, wheeled tanks can use public gas stations when moving around the country. Of course, they, like ordinary tanks, can be transported both by rail, by sea, and by tractor, at least in order to save motor resources, but in case of emergency, a wheeled tank can be free of this, and a tracked - no. Otherwise, he will simply “kill” himself and the existing road network. Of course, in a duel situation, “Type-16” versus T-90, “Type-16” will be shamefully weak, but, apparently, Japanese strategists do not plan tank battles in the style of “a la Prokhorovka” (but like the T-90 to Japan will fall?), and in what-what, and in the absence of common sense the Japanese are difficult to blame - I just saw how they live. We should live like that ... Comrades, they have created and are producing a tool "for themselves", based on their needs and their capabilities. I’m just wondering: will the side projection of the T-90 withstand a shot from a 105-mm rifled gun, say, from 1,5 km, or not?
    1. English tarantas
      English tarantas 12 May 2020 11: 49 New
      +4
      Voooooot, finally a sane person. And about the side of the T-90, it will pierce and penetrate. The peculiarity of the MBT is that the need for high security does not fit in with the capabilities of the chassis, because booking the sides of the MBT is a rolled armor of several tens of mm. When in the comments (which is alarming - in VO) people say: “But how will it fight with the T-90?” - Yes, it’s very simple, MBTs are full of weak and invulnerable places, and therefore they have long been trying to choose positions and open fire on each other’s vulnerable areas.
    2. prodi
      prodi 12 May 2020 13: 10 New
      0
      in defense of common sense, a high-pulse 105mm cannon for a wheeled tank is clearly not the best choice, it is better to have a low-pulse type of our 2A80, or a universal one like Bahcha, with the addition of a pair of full-size ATGMs
      1. Brylevsky
        Brylevsky 12 May 2020 13: 28 New
        0
        in defense of common sense, a high-pulse 105mm gun for a wheeled tank is clearly not the best choice

        Sorry, I'm not a designer of artillery systems, so I can neither support you nor deny ... But I have a certain relationship with transport logistics and I have to visit Japan often, at work, of course ... I understand the logic of the military leadership of this country: having such roads, it’s a sin not to derive maximum benefit from them ... including militarily.
        it’s better to have a low-pulse type of our 2A80, or a universal one - of the Bahch type, with the addition of a pair of full-size ATGMs

        Maybe you're right. Apparently, the Japanese did not invest in OCD with a new tank gun, but used to the maximum what they already had at hand ... Only real combat operations can confirm or refute the concept of a 105-mm rifled gun as the main weapon of this machine .
        1. prodi
          prodi 12 May 2020 13: 57 New
          +1
          really funny, everyone makes wheeled tanks without the right artillery systems, and we have, but don't
          1. Brylevsky
            Brylevsky 12 May 2020 15: 59 New
            0
            wheeled tanks do everything without having suitable artillery systems, but we have, but we don’t

            This is the specificity of our country. We have neither the savannah of South Africa, nor the extensive road network of highly developed states. Without hard ground all year round under its wheels, a wheeled tank significantly loses mobility to its caterpillar counterpart, this is an axiom ... I think that this is the whole point. In specific ground pressure. In a caterpillar mover, it is smaller due to the larger contact area. Less pressure - better cross-country ability ... Where the caterpillar creeps, the wheel burrows.
            1. prodi
              prodi 12 May 2020 16: 03 New
              0
              No, well, the BMP-3s of Saudi Arabia got into it, why not develop this topic with wheeled tanks?
            2. ycuce234-san
              ycuce234-san 13 May 2020 01: 32 New
              0
              Without hard ground all year round under its wheels

              Russia has areas with excellent hard soils, namely, hard permafrost (perennial permafrost zone, permafrost, permafrost) - it occupies 65% of the territory of Russia and 25% of the land area of ​​the whole world.
              Wheeled Russian cars make sense precisely in the vast Arctic regions - it’s even amazing how it turned out that it was the Yuar people who came up with modern wheel armor.
  • Viktor Sergeev
    Viktor Sergeev 12 May 2020 07: 59 New
    -5
    Someone will run into good supplies of another unnecessary nonsense. Isn't it better to upgrade the previous one? A wheeled tank is a weapon for the poor, it is better to buy self-propelled guns, because the wheeler does not have the main thing that defines the tank: normal armor, for example, a gun on wheels, and the gun is weak both in high-explosive action and in armor penetration.
    1. Zementbomber
      Zementbomber 12 May 2020 08: 21 New
      +4
      Wheel tank weapons for the poor

      Just Nonsense Nonsense. negative
      1. Viktor Sergeev
        Viktor Sergeev 12 May 2020 13: 45 New
        0
        Yeah for the rich. If this miracle is encountered in battle with a normal tank, or even simply trample on infantry, it will cease to exist within seconds. For war with the underdeveloped will go, for the average enemy is already a suicide bomber.
        1. Zementbomber
          Zementbomber 13 May 2020 08: 38 New
          +1
          And again - Bullshit. Lightly armored self-propelled gun with a good gun - quite easily cope with MBT. With a properly organized fight, es-s-no.
    2. Brylevsky
      Brylevsky 12 May 2020 09: 34 New
      +4
      after all, the wheeler does not have the main thing that defines the tank: normal armor, so the gun is on wheels, and the gun is weak

      You do not want to understand that a wheeled tank and MBT are tools designed to solve different tasks. Crawler chassis is good for off-road and soft ground; a powerful gun is good for hitting highly protected targets. But for all these advantages you have to pay, both in money and in a decrease in other characteristics that are not directly related to the battle, but, nevertheless, capable of influencing it. The Japanese want to get the most out of using their highly organized road network, the caterpillar chassis will only become an obstacle for them in this; a powerful gun weighs significantly more than a less powerful gun - did it ever occur to you that Japanese engineers did not take this into account when they made the Type-16 aircraft transportable? Now, with the advent of this machine, the Self-Defense Forces will be able to concentrate the shock fist for a short period of time, the key phrase: for a short period of time. And tell me, please: what can prevent them from equipping these vehicles with ATGMs if necessary? This is for a hypothetical battle, when a “tank against a tank”, for a real battle in Japan, involving “third forces” in the form of their aviation, artillery, fleet, etc., this situation may not exist at all.
      1. Viktor Sergeev
        Viktor Sergeev 12 May 2020 13: 53 New
        0
        And why then a tank, if you can just take into service a Tiger-type car with ATGMs on board? The same or even greater power, at a lower price, but with better maneuverability. Instead of one such tank, several Tigers. A gun of the Nona type will be stronger than this 105 mm, and possibly smaller in weight. 105 mm modern anachronism, neither against infantry nor against a tank.
        Nowadays, few people need a quick transfer, tanks without infantry are nothing, intelligence detects any transfer, and then this miracle of technology drives up to the disposal site, where tanks and ATGMs are waiting for him, against which it is nothing.
        Yes, Japan is a mountainous country with an interesting relief, and did this help the Japanese much in the 40s? Their light tanks fighting on the islands were effective until the American Shermans drove up and dared them.
        1. Brylevsky
          Brylevsky 12 May 2020 15: 41 New
          +1
          And why then a tank, if you can just take into service a Tiger-type car with ATGMs on board?

          Obviously, a combat vehicle such as this “type” is simply better protected. And the eight-wheeled chassis allows you to install not a small-caliber gun, "fly swatter", but a completely normal gun. Yes, there is no MBT in her forehead, so what? We T-34-76 until the end of World War II "Tiger" in the forehead did not take from any distance, however, somehow fought. Because tanks are not only an artillery duel in the spirit of "World of Tanks", it is strange that you do not understand this. You want to say that a 105-mm rifled gun will not penetrate the T-90 from 1,5 km? Well, from 1 km, then what about?
          A gun like Nona will be stronger than this 105 mm

          Maybe. But the Japanese do not have Nona. They have a 105 mm rifled tank gun, a licensed counterpart to the British L7. By the way, look at the "Wick" assortment of her ammunition. And compare with any modern cannon with a caliber of 20-30 mm, this is the question of choosing a wheelbase.
          105 mm modern anachronism, neither against infantry nor against a tank.

          Apparently, the Japanese Self-Defense Forces do not think so. I think that the potential of this weapon has not yet been exhausted and further development will follow the path of improving its ammunition.
          Nowadays, few people need a quick transfer,

          Japan obviously needs. Otherwise, such tanks would not have appeared.
          tanks without infantry are nothing, intelligence detects any transfer, and then this miracle of technology drives up to the disposal site, where tanks and ATGMs are waiting for it, against which it is nothing.

          Man, there are a lot of letters, but sense, sorry, not really. How will our intelligence, tanks, ATGMs and more, get into Japan? The Japanese made a wheeled tank to quickly move along their road network ... And so, they must not have their own reconnaissance and their ATGMs? And the T-90 is an absolute weapon devoid of any flaws?
          Yes, Japan is a mountainous country with an interesting relief

          Japan is a country with a highly organized road network. Japanese roads are one of the best in the world, if not the best ... It’s a sin not to reveal their full potential, including military. So they opened it.
          1. Viktor Sergeev
            Viktor Sergeev 13 May 2020 09: 13 New
            -1
            There are no weapons without flaws. Maybe they didn’t teach me that in the army, but I understand that a tank without armor with a weak gun is something incomprehensible. T34-85 performed its function: entering the breakthrough and quickly encircling the enemy, and attacking the Tigers or Panthers was an extreme that led to huge losses. Now it’s not the years 1943-1945, a tank based on Western doctrine, it is actually a mobile gun for firing without contact with enemy infantry, and then a breakthrough and surroundings, I don’t understand the 105 mm gun fit into this.
            I think this cannot be called a tank, rather an armored personnel carrier with a cannon, but then 105 mm is excessive power, for example, compared to our 57 mm, which is enough to destroy all lightly armored targets, and against the tank that 57 mm, which 105, like an elephant’s shot .
            Japanese roads may be better, but what will become of them after the first shelling?
            The Japanese made a tank for peacetime, so drive along good roads without spoiling them, that is, a tank for the poor or not expecting a real war.
            1. Brylevsky
              Brylevsky 13 May 2020 09: 39 New
              +2
              Man, I'm tired of explaining and proving. No offense. Do not believe in the potential of this tank and its weapons, - OK, your right.
              But I would like to speak about this:
              Japanese roads may be better, but what will become of them after the first shelling?

              I often have to go to Japan and I know quite a lot about this country. In Japan, earthquakes and other natural disasters, including the tsunami, are frequent. All these natural events, as you understand, do not have the most beneficial effect on the state of their road network. So, believe it or not, but all this taught the Japanese to repair their roads very quickly, because roads are for them, that's all. If everything will be completely bad, then what difficulties are there simply filling the funnels from shells or mines with earth? And I remind you that these tanks are intended, including, in order to there is nobody there were shelling of these roads.
              a tank for the poor or not expecting a real war.

              South Africa and France also makes wheeled tanks for the poor? I do not agree with you, and categorically. You forget that a tank is only a tool to achieve your goals. It is quite obvious that for some specific task such a weapon is being created. The goals and objectives of Type 16 are spelled out in the article, + I interpreted them in my comments as I could, and I don’t want to talk about this anymore. Please, no mutual insults. I believe that the topic is revealed. If you still want to discuss something, then write "in a personal", although I have nothing to add on the topic ...
        2. Zementbomber
          Zementbomber 13 May 2020 08: 40 New
          0
          A gun of the Nona type will be stronger than this 105 mm, and possibly smaller in weight. 105 mm modern anachronism, neither against infantry nor against a tank.

          Learn the materiel. The characteristics of artillery systems are not determined by their caliber. "Nona" against heavy armored vehicles - full UG.
          1. Viktor Sergeev
            Viktor Sergeev 13 May 2020 09: 16 New
            0
            You are inattentive. I gave an example of Nona on the possibilities of suppressing infantry. The caliber determines the size of a high-explosive projectile and its ability to suppress infantry. Nona’s 120mm cannon is more powerful than 105mm, plus she is capable of firing mines, which is worth a lot. The cannon is needed for shooting in a straight line, but for this it is necessary to crawl out of the shelter, that is, substitute a virtually unprotected armored car under the ATGM or tank.
            1. Zementbomber
              Zementbomber 13 May 2020 10: 48 New
              +1
              Uhh ...
              First - the caliber itself is nothing not determines - especially at such a small difference as 105 and 120. You can increase the high-explosive and brisant action due to:
              - a greater mass of the projectile, with the same caliber achieved due to greater elongation
              - increase in charge mass due to thinner walls and increase in explosive density in the chamber
              - the use of more powerful explosives
              Secondly - direct fire can be fired because of the closure - "showing" only the upper part of the frontal projection of the tower.
              Thirdly - even those modern artillery systems, which are called guns, have quite decent elevation angles, and in fact combine the properties of both a traditional gun and a howitzer. And this applies to a number of tank guns.
              Well, one should not forget about the super-large angles of inclination of the armor parts, when meeting with which even the BPS and the cumulative stream will ricochet (interestingly, the Kuma cannot theoretically ricochet - but in practice this is a fairly common phenomenon under certain conditions). + Fuses at a meeting angle of 15 degrees. and less. + VDZ
              1. Viktor Sergeev
                Viktor Sergeev 13 May 2020 13: 14 New
                0
                The difference between 105 mm and 120 mm is simply huge. If it would be so simple to increase the mass of the shell, why would it be necessary to increase the caliber? All countries use the same explosives, all new items would lead to an increase in the cost of the charge, a waste of money with a scanty result. Tanks do not have cannons large elevations. Ours before the Second World War tried to create universal guns, but refused: weight gain and useless functionality. Universality is stupid, there are no universal systems, there is a clear separation.
  • Zementbomber
    Zementbomber 12 May 2020 08: 20 New
    +1
    Modern MBT "Type 10" can not yet claim numerical superiority. Nevertheless, they remain in the series, and in the future they can supplant older predecessors.

    Type 10 is not planned - and never was - as a replacement for Type 90.
    Well, about the new uberdevice ... - “Centauro B” is still much better. Although created much earlier.
  • Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 12 May 2020 08: 53 New
    0
    And where do the old Japs put their tanks? Sell ​​- they don’t sell ..... It seems to me that it’s easier to put a new tower on them than to fence 8x8.
    1. Brylevsky
      Brylevsky 12 May 2020 11: 22 New
      +1
      It seems to me that it’s easier to put a new tower on them than to fence 8x8.

      The Japanese want to use their road network to quickly transfer tanks. In the case of a wheeled tank, this is feasible; in the case of a crawler tank, no. I named the reasons above.
      1. Viktor Sergeev
        Viktor Sergeev 12 May 2020 13: 57 New
        -1
        The modern caterpillar tank rushes almost like a wheeled one. When landing an enemy on the coast of Japan, coastal systems will operate with advantage (otherwise there will be no landing and no tanks will be needed), enemy forces will be concentrated on a small area, no transfer is required. Well, these prodigies wake up, so what? Will they trample on to death? Or maybe they will work on the defensive with their cannon and dimensions? Maybe it’s better to immediately buy a bunch of ATGMs and transfer them with ordinary trucks, but to suppress SZA and self-propelled guns?
        1. Brylevsky
          Brylevsky 12 May 2020 16: 17 New
          0
          The modern caterpillar tank rushes almost like a wheeled one.

          Yes. But at the same time it destroys the road if it goes along it. At the same time, its chassis experiences increased dynamic loads and wears out intensively. Concrete under the tank’s tracks is contraindicated.
          Well, these prodigies wake up, so what?

          This is not a “prodigy”, this is a mobile firearm. With its specific advantages and disadvantages. Aviation cannot be present on the battlefield 24 hours a day, and a wheeled tank can and will.
          Maybe it’s better to immediately buy a bunch of ATGMs and transfer them with ordinary trucks, but to suppress SZA and self-propelled guns?

          It might be better. Only, knowing the Japanese, I can tell you that they will not waste money - they are not the same people. If you ordered a similar technique for yourself, it means they have views on it. I have named only one of its important advantages: the ability to quickly transfer using the public road network. Surely there is something else that neither you nor I know. Some tactical combinations with the use of this type of weapon are possible. You insist that such a tank is useless; I’m saying that this tank is a highly specialized working tool that has its own tactical niche.
          1. Viktor Sergeev
            Viktor Sergeev 13 May 2020 11: 40 New
            0
            War is not a parade, the last thing they think about is preservation of roads.
            As for the money down the drain, you are bent. The Japanese, Americans and other capitalists are primarily thinking of profits, lobbying is the engine of orders. Wheel machinery is cheap to manufacture and can be sold at a higher price.
            I did not say that the tank is useless. A tank is very necessary, but it is a tank, and not whether it’s either a non-tank, or a re-armored personnel carrier. It reminds BT7, neither here nor there.
            Wheel tanks began to be made for one reason: many realized that there would be no real war, so why make weapons that are difficult to eksplatatii of oats and expensive enough, it’s better to rivet such scrap metal and weld well.
            Not a single warring country (if it is fighting a serious opponent) will use such a miracle, but it’s against the barmaley, although I think it’s better to work 30mm on jihad mobiles or, in extreme cases, 57. But the barmaley have a lot of ATGMs, so T90 is better .
    2. DDT
      DDT 12 May 2020 14: 58 New
      0
      Quote: Zaurbek
      And where do the old Japs put their tanks? Sell ​​- they don’t sell ..... It seems to me that it’s easier to put a new tower on them than to fence 8x8.

      Automate and launch forward like drones. And behind this miracle with operators.
      1. Viktor Sergeev
        Viktor Sergeev 13 May 2020 11: 41 New
        +1
        If it were that simple.
        1. DDT
          DDT 13 May 2020 15: 54 New
          0
          Not just Victor, so now millions are cut into tanks and other online games. Data is collected and analyzed on servers. A long process, so I hope that until the moment when it all works, I personally will not survive. Don't wanna go crazy
  • DDT
    DDT 12 May 2020 14: 56 New
    0
    As soon as I read the article, the first thing I thought was that the Khalkhin-Gol of the Japanese did not teach anything. And they again on the same rake, cardboard armored cars against the steel armada of the Red Army. But, on the other hand, a mobile command center with a cannon just in case, and in front of it is an avalanche of guided drones in the front line, then everything falls into place.
    1. Viktor Sergeev
      Viktor Sergeev 13 May 2020 13: 16 New
      0
      Well, you and the dreamer. What drones? Do you like science fiction?
      1. DDT
        DDT 13 May 2020 14: 55 New
        0
        Fortunately, fantastic. But for now. But how soon will it become a reality? In vain do you think unprofitable games like WoT are so popular?
        1. Viktor Sergeev
          Viktor Sergeev 14 May 2020 08: 21 New
          0
          A drone is an expensive toy, especially a combat one, it costs like an average combat aircraft, you won’t make a flock, it’s a little confusing, it’s better to use the SZO and higher range and mobility, in a strong enemy, drones are suppressed by interference and get lost. Turks in Syria have already lost half their drones.
          1. DDT
            DDT 14 May 2020 20: 00 New
            0
            But do you acknowledge that progress does not stand still? The question is how fast. And it just seems to me purely logical that therefore they are not creating more new tanks. They are waiting for breakthrough technologies. And therefore, the Moscow Region does not purchase Armata, etc.
  • Doctor
    Doctor 12 May 2020 16: 51 New
    0
    The Ministry of Defense of Japan has not lost its grip and has not forgotten how to powder brains. tongue

    They made a mobile artillery platform landing from air and water and tell in plain text what it is like to “protect” their territory.

    We need to look more closely at the Kuril Islands and Sakhalin. soldier
  • gorenina91
    gorenina91 12 May 2020 18: 07 New
    0
    -I have here various comments about these wheeled tanks, supposedly ideally "adapted" to the mountainous and forest exotic of the Japanese terrain ...
    -Well., So against them they don’t even need heavy anti-tank missile systems (ATGMs) ...- different "TOWs", or expensive Javelins, etc. ... -These tanks are just from bushes and from forest hillocks from the old and reliable (and very inexpensive) RPG-7, everything is flipped over ... -Yes and not necessarily in the forest or in the mountains ...- and on the flat terrain with these "tanks" this can also be done ...
    1. Brylevsky
      Brylevsky 12 May 2020 19: 10 New
      +1
      and on the flat terrain with these "tanks" this can also be done ...

      Irina, with any tank it can do. Remember the New Year's assault on Grozny ... You read the comments, but did not catch the essence of the article. These are tanks for creating highly mobile battle groups, capable of quickly concentrating in the place of the intended strike. For the sake of mobility and mobility you have to sacrifice security and firepower, but, as you can see, the Japanese consider it worth it.
      1. gorenina91
        gorenina91 12 May 2020 19: 23 New
        0
        -That’s just the essence, I’ve "caught" ... -An essence is that this tank is extremely adapted exclusively to "Japanese geography" ... -In order to drive along Japanese forest paths that are not too steep hillocks, etc. ... -And what will he do in the marshy ravines and quicksand and snowy (with a large layer of snow) plains and so on ...?
        -Yes, and who needs speed on treacherous forest roads ... -where you can get into any unpretentious. Trap ... -Here speed is a rather dubious advantage ...
        -Well, but about the fact that any tank can be destroyed ... -here I agree with you ...
        1. Brylevsky
          Brylevsky 12 May 2020 19: 36 New
          +2
          And the bottom line is that this tank is extremely adapted exclusively to "Japanese geography"

          Yes. And you don’t have to expect more from him.
          in order to travel along Japanese forest paths, along not too steep hillocks, etc.

          Not really ... He will use, among other things, public roads. This is its main advantage, compared with a tracked tank.
          But what will he do in swampy ravines and in quicksand and snowy (with a large layer of snow) plains, etc. ...?

          Nothing. He will not do anything there, because he simply does not belong there. His element is solid soil and roadbed.
          And who needs speed

          How to say ... For the quick transfer of forces and means, speed is critical. More important than thick armor and a powerful gun. You can’t acquire something without losing something ...
          1. gorenina91
            gorenina91 12 May 2020 20: 09 New
            0
            element - solid soils and roadbed.
            And who needs speed

            How to say ... For the quick transfer of forces and means, speed is critical.


            -I personally wrote the following:
            -Yes, and who needs speed on treacherous forest roads ... -where you can get into any unpretentious. Trap ...

            - These are two big differences ...
            -No need to “correct” me ...- this makes the meaning of what I speak about ...
          2. Viktor Sergeev
            Viktor Sergeev 14 May 2020 08: 18 New
            +1
            As soon as the war, God forbid, begins, for example, with China or Russia (Japan even has a hypothetical enemy no longer), the landscape will begin to change dramatically, after a day excellent roads disappear and it turns out that the average speed of any equipment will be 20 kilometers per hour, if you're lucky.
            The Germans naively believed the same thing, that their super technique would trample on Moscow and then suddenly autumn came and the Mercians suddenly stopped traveling, but the captured Soviet clumsy one and a half perls.
            Armor and a cannon currently decide everything, given the capabilities of reconnaissance and aviation.
            War is not a parade or riding a Formula 1 track.
        2. DDT
          DDT 15 May 2020 16: 26 New
          0
          Irina, do you expect that the descendants of the samurai will trample to where forests, swamps and other wetlands ?! How aggressive you are! Let them sit at home and make tanks to their taste and do not climb anywhere. And we, too, will not climb anywhere.
    2. Viktor Sergeev
      Viktor Sergeev 13 May 2020 13: 18 New
      +1
      Better not write this. In the open, any tank shoots grenade launchers after the first shot, or even before it, but the ATGMs turn this wheel miracle into scrap metal before it reaches the firing range of its weak cannon.
      1. DDT
        DDT 15 May 2020 16: 28 New
        +1
        Victor, ATGM will turn into a piece of iron any tank that is wheeled, that is tracked. So why then at all?
        1. Lara Croft
          Lara Croft 15 May 2020 21: 47 New
          0
          Quote: DDT
          Victor, ATGM will turn into a piece of iron any tank that is wheeled, that is tracked. So why then at all?

          You can understand them, their roads are better than ours, sorry .... probably ...
          1. Viktor Sergeev
            Viktor Sergeev 16 May 2020 06: 41 New
            0
            May there be no roads during the war, they will disappear as a class, will be destroyed by the first strike. By the way, our roads are not bad, given the geography, the length of the country and the weather.
  • DDT
    DDT 13 May 2020 19: 29 New
    +1

    No coments ... stop
    1. Viktor Sergeev
      Viktor Sergeev 14 May 2020 08: 13 New
      0
      The main thing for this miracle to wash off during the time, actually for this it was created, to hit the target is not important.
  • Lara Croft
    Lara Croft 15 May 2020 21: 38 New
    0
    For an island nation that does not carry out operations in overseas territories, it is .... however, on Fr. Hokkaido, where the Japs have the most powerful and combat-ready Northern Army, there will be classic tracked MBTs and infantry fighting vehicles ... otherwise the "evil" Russians in the Kuril Islands have 94 T-80BVs, and here the "cart" is some kind of 105-mm gun ...
    1. Viktor Sergeev
      Viktor Sergeev 16 May 2020 06: 45 New
      0
      The Japanese are familiar with the deployment of such “tanks” on the islands; during the war they hid their light tanks in the jungle until the Sherman Americans brought and extinct them. Currently, a tank without armor, on the island, if a strong landing is landed, will be turned into a pile of scrap by ship’s means.
    2. DDT
      DDT 16 May 2020 11: 38 New
      0
      Our Rapier is also 100 mm. It seems to pierce any tanks. And their Rapier is also self-propelled. Do you think it will not break the T-90?
      1. Lara Croft
        Lara Croft 16 May 2020 12: 55 New
        -1
        Quote: DDT
        Our Rapier is also 100 mm. It seems to pierce any tanks.

        It’s a sin to laugh ... our MT-12, as you say, can hit ATGM targets with armor from their barrel ...
        And their Rapier is also self-propelled.

        They just have a self-propelled self-propelled guns ..... moreover, stupid, at the level of the old English self-propelled guns "Abbot" of the XV century ...
        Do you think it will not break the T-90?

        That's exactly what I think ....
        Thirdly, Japanese-made ammunition has poor penetration. The Type 16 wheeled tank does not have 105 mm guided anti-tank rockets in its ammunition. As a result, his crew will be able to fight only with medium or light tanks or amphibious armored personnel carriers (BMPs). This technique makes up most of the fleet of armored vehicles of the Marine Corps units of the Navy of the People's Liberation Army of China (PLA).

        As the main means of fire destruction, the Type 16 wheeled tank is equipped with a 105 mm gun with a barrel length of 52 caliber. The tool was developed by Japanese experts based on the English tank gun L7A1. Previously, such a gun was installed on Type 74 medium tanks, which formed the basis of armored units of the Japanese armed forces.

        https://invoen.ru/vvt/kolesnyj-tank-tip-16/
        The author generally kept silent about the weaknesses of the Japanese "cart" ....
        Where, then, "legs grow"?
        The model is intended for staffing from 2016 to 2025. six divisions and four brigades of ground forces, which are planned to be reformed on the model of the Brigade combat team Stryker of the US Army.

        see there
        Accordingly, the indicated wheeled tanks will strengthen infantry divisions and "island" brigades, with the aim of disrupting the PLA naval landing operation on the island (small) territories of Japan and probably the reconnaissance units of the SV ... since the wheeled tank discussed in the article is not equipped with a water mover, its use in the units and subunits of the MP that are being created now in the Japanese Armed Forces ...
        I think the empirialists will either further modernize this tank or create other vehicles on its basis (SM, KShM, BRM, etc.) ....
        1. DDT
          DDT 16 May 2020 17: 22 New
          -1
          You are confusing something with a young man. Do the Japanese not? 105 mm is generally a NATO caliber, do you really think that they will not sell to the Japanese allies? And by the way, why did you decide that Rapier fires missiles? Yes there are old ATGMs of 100 mm. But I'm not sure if Rapier can shoot them? I have not found this information anywhere.
          Well, let's say they can’t, but ours can, I take my word for it. 105 mm scrap, breaks the armor of the T-90, not in the forehead so sideways. So, the wheeled Tank, the transfer speed is significantly higher than that of the Type 90, the gun is perhaps weaker ... The shotguns in IRAQ proved to be effective against the T-55, -72. So the right to life has.
          1. Lara Croft
            Lara Croft 16 May 2020 19: 20 New
            -1
            Quote: DDT
            You are confusing something with a young man.

            Thank you for the sneak, but I won’t get younger from this ....
            And by the way, why did you decide that Rapier fires missiles? Yes there are old ATGMs of 100 mm. But I'm not sure if Rapier can shoot them? I have not found this information anywhere.

            ... have you been banned in google?
            in the 1960s, there began a massive "fascination" with anti-tank missiles, which predicted the fate of the "killer" of classical artillery. "Murder" did not happen. In addition, classic guns taught to launch ATGMs through the barrel. And the heir to the T-12 was the first in this business. In 1970, the T-12 fleet was supplemented by advanced MT-12 guns, which received a new gun mount. The improved gun could be towed at a higher speed, and the suspension locked during firing improved accuracy. On the basis of MT-12, in 1981, the MT-12K modification was introduced, equipped with shots from the 9M117 Kastet ATGM. The missile could hit up to 600 mm of homogeneous armor for dynamic protection. To direct the missile, the MT-12P calculation received the 9Sh135 device, which made it possible to track the target and direct the missile.

            https://zen.yandex.ru/media/kitchenmag/mt12-posledniaia-protivotankovaia-pushka-v-sovremennyh-voinah-5c2f2b7fcffc6400aaecd6d0

            see 4.23 minute
            1. DDT
              DDT 17 May 2020 13: 45 New
              -1
              105 mm Falarik. If a Japanese woman still doesn’t know how to shoot her, then she’ll be taught. This is a simple matter. hi
              1. Lara Croft
                Lara Croft 17 May 2020 16: 55 New
                -1
                Quote: DDT
                105 mm Falarik. If a Japanese woman still doesn’t know how to shoot her, then she’ll be taught. This is a simple matter. hi

                Glad for your inhuman faith in the Japanese ....
                1. DDT
                  DDT 17 May 2020 18: 09 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Lara Croft
                  Glad for your inhuman faith in the Japanese ....

                  I am glad for your self-esteem and desire to write a comment without reading the article, without delving into the material ... Do you want to read the readiness? fellow
                  1. Lara Croft
                    Lara Croft 17 May 2020 18: 14 New
                    -1
                    Quote: DDT
                    the desire to write a comment without reading the article,

                    I was thinking the same thing when I read your comments ....
                    Do you want to show the clarity?

                    And you are a lie .... data on MT-12 is in the very first lines of Yandex ...
                    Goodbye ... you are already trolling ... it is not interesting to talk with you ...
                    1. DDT
                      DDT 17 May 2020 18: 19 New
                      -1
                      Lodge? I ASKED. And after your scribble, I was not too lazy to get into Google and gave you the answer that 105 mm guns also have the ability to shoot ATGMs. You started here to lay out your own conclusions for the ultimate truth. But I don’t really believe bloggers and players in VoT. Sorry, I didn’t mean to offend you
                      PS Speaking of trolling, they don’t really talk to you ... Although your comments are under almost every article? I'm starting to suspect why.
                      1. Lara Croft
                        Lara Croft 17 May 2020 18: 21 New
                        -1
                        Quote: DDT
                        105 mm guns also have the ability to shoot ATGMs.

                        You can’t even give me references to this ...
                      2. DDT
                        DDT 17 May 2020 18: 37 New
                        0
                        Quote: Lara Croft
                        Quote: DDT
                        105 mm guns also have the ability to shoot ATGMs.

                        You can’t even give me references to this ...

                        https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%B1%D0%B0%D1%82_(%D0%9F%D0%A2%D0%A3%D0%A0)
                        You are welcome. ATGMs Falarik and Lahat with tables on range, armor penetration, etc. Or will you start about the fact that there is no evidence that the Japanese cannot shoot them?
                      3. Lara Croft
                        Lara Croft 17 May 2020 18: 47 New
                        -1
                        Quote: DDT
                        Quote: Lara Croft
                        Quote: DDT
                        105 mm guns also have the ability to shoot ATGMs.

                        You can’t even give me references to this ...

                        https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%B1%D0%B0%D1%82_(%D0%9F%D0%A2%D0%A3%D0%A0)

                        Link to Ukrainian ATGM
                      4. DDT
                        DDT 17 May 2020 18: 50 New
                        0
                        Lara, you read. There tables are given with comparisons of all existing ATGMs. I’m too lazy to translate data about Falarik or Lahat from French or English to you. I do not work on the site. I like to read and sometimes express my thoughts. fool
                      5. Lara Croft
                        Lara Croft 17 May 2020 19: 00 New
                        -1
                        Quote: DDT
                        Lara, you read. There tables are given with comparisons of all existing ATGMs.

                        The fact that these ATGMs can be used for firing 105 mm cannons does not mean that the tank gun of a wheeled Japanese tank can do this, I gave you a link to the performance characteristics of the Japanese wheeled tank, there is not a word about the ability to shoot ATGMs with them, at least with any ...
                      6. DDT
                        DDT 17 May 2020 20: 43 New
                        0
                        I also foresaw this ... Needless to say, refute? Some cliches in the head and in words? Or just hate the Japanese
                      7. Lara Croft
                        Lara Croft 18 May 2020 00: 09 New
                        -1
                        Quote: DDT
                        I also foresaw this ... Needless to say, refute?

                        You still have not refuted my arguments that the Japanese wheeled tank specified in this article cannot shoot ATGMs from the barrel of a tank gun ...
                        [quoteOne cliche in the head and in words?] [/ quote]
                        Troll and insult, because there are no reasons ....
                        just hate the japanese

                        You absolutely believe, because: between the Russian Federation and Japan there is still no signed peace treaty, there are territorial disputes from Japan to my country (nobody canceled the day of the Northern Territories in Japan), the United States WB sent to Japanese islands against the Russian Federation in the first place ... on about. Hokkaido is the most combat-capable and numerous Northern Army of the Self-Defense Forces of Japan ...
                        Give me a reason to love the Japanese, provided that they openly refuse to sign a peace treaty with us, and when transferring the Kuril Islands they will give them to the Americans under their WB .... what their officials said ....
                      8. DDT
                        DDT 18 May 2020 12: 22 New
                        -1
                        Oh my God!!! wassat
                        The descendants of the samurai will not go by force to take these islands. Under no circumstances, under any circumstances. Now, if a civil war starts in Russia, then yes. Your army protects you, so sleep well! hi
                        But if it begins in the Russian Federation, it will only show how stupid the people of the Russian Federation are, and then not only Japan, and not even so much Japan, will have to be your headache. Everyone will fit in there hoping to tear off a piece of the pie, and not only the countries that have territorial claims against Russia. Therefore, it is time to stop stirring up the water, including the VO.