Military Review

Japan continues to replace MBT with wheeled tank destroyers Type 16

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Japan continues to replace MBT with wheeled tank destroyers Type 16

Japanese Self-Defense Forces Continue Implementing Major Combat Replacement Program tanks on wheeled tank destroyers. According to the portal defense-blog.com, the Japanese military intends to purchase 33 units of new machines, called Type 16, by the end of this year.


The plans for the restructuring of the tank fleet of the Self-Defense Forces of Japan were reported back in 2014. According to the plans of the military, the available fleet of main battle tanks, designed to repel the advance of the Soviet army, is now outdated and no longer corresponds to modern realities. At present, the threat vector has shifted from the Russian direction to the Chinese one; tanks have been proposed to be replaced with lighter wheeled vehicles.

In the framework of the program called MCV (Maneuver Combat Vehicle), which started back in 2008, a wheeled combat vehicle with a 105 mm Type 16 gun was developed. According to available information, the armored vehicle has a smaller mass compared to MBT, which allows them to be transferred from using transport aviation. Wheel formula 8X8, power reserve of 400 km, speed - 100 km / h. Armament - a 105-mm caliber gun and two machine guns. It was also previously reported that the gun does not have an automatic loader, so the crew has been increased to 4 people.

In total, according to the plans of the Ministry of Defense of Japan, during the reform until 2026, 300 new Type 16 tank destroyers will be delivered to the troops, while 740 available tanks will be withdrawn from service.

Photos used:
defence-blog.com
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  1. cost
    cost 6 May 2020 15: 42 New
    16
    wheeled tank destroyer MCV Type 16

    The armor, according to the designers, is able to withstand a shot from a 105-mm gun and RPG-7 rocket-propelled grenade. Manual gun loading
    TTX
    dimensions
    Body length, mm 8450
    Width, mm 2980
    Height, mm 2870
    weaponry
    Caliber and brand of gun 105-mm
    12,7 mm machine guns
    7,62-mm
    Fire control system, which is borrowed from the main battle tank "Type 10". The system includes: ballistic computer (computer), gunner’s optical sight, all-round sight for the commander, two laser rangefinders, a laser radiation sensor and a wind sensor.
    Engine power, l with. Xnumx
    Highway speed, km / h 100
    Cruising on highway, km 400
    Wheel formula 8 × 8
    Combat weight, t 26
    Crew, pers. Xnumx
    1. NF68
      NF68 6 May 2020 15: 59 New
      17
      Quote: Rich
      The armor, according to the designers, is able to withstand a shot from a 105-mm gun and RPG-7 rocket-propelled grenade.


      I would like to believe in it. But I don’t believe it. This is still not MBT.
      1. Labrador
        Labrador 6 May 2020 18: 18 New
        0
        I also somehow do not believe it ... but the japam knows better
      2. venik
        venik 6 May 2020 21: 09 New
        0
        Quote: NF68
        I would like to believe in it. But I don’t believe it. This is still not MBT.

        ========
        Nevertheless, this is so (at least according to official Japanese information). The truth - the type of projectile - was not specified (at least I could not find it. But since it was a 105 mm shell И RPG-7, we can assume it was a 105-mm cumulative projectile. And they have armor-piercing "not oh" - the same M456 - approx. 460 mm cold-smoked homogenous.
        Given the progress in materials science and the widespread adoption of multilayer spaced armor with ceramic elements, it is quite possible that withstands. But as for BPS - this is already doubtful .......
        1. hydrox
          hydrox 7 May 2020 06: 00 New
          0
          Externally, everything seems to be in order and there are no obvious shoals, but assuming that the Japenes last war ended in 45, there is a sense of some opacity for such an apparatus - from which 75 years old non-war nation took TTX such a miracle?
          On the other hand, the Japanese are quite an engineering nation, but to take steps to deprive their army of MBTs means to have such a modern military doctrine that we still have to understand the direction of this doctrine, the goals and objectives set for the Japanese army.
          More or less, only one thing is being drawn - this weapon is not intended for warfare either on Russian, or even less so on the Kuril territory (unless these vehicles are buried in the ground), but this is not a modern approach. lol
          1. Alex777
            Alex777 7 May 2020 10: 59 New
            0
            This "miracle" can only work from an ambush.
        2. NF68
          NF68 7 May 2020 16: 07 New
          0
          Quote: venik
          Quote: NF68
          I would like to believe in it. But I don’t believe it. This is still not MBT.

          ========
          Nevertheless, this is so (at least according to official Japanese information). The truth - the type of projectile - was not specified (at least I could not find it. But since it was a 105 mm shell И RPG-7, we can assume it was a 105-mm cumulative projectile. And they have armor-piercing "not oh" - the same M456 - approx. 460 mm cold-smoked homogenous.
          Given the progress in materials science and the widespread adoption of multilayer spaced armor with ceramic elements, it is quite possible that withstands. But as for BPS - this is already doubtful .......


          Development 105 mm. shells also does not stand still. Old shells can also withstand frontal armor, but I doubt the new ones
        3. missuris
          missuris 7 May 2020 20: 50 New
          0
          In 2009, resistance tests to shielding coils were performed using Carl Gustav M2; and against conventional kinetic ammunition, a frontal shield was developed to withstand shots from auto-guns from 20 to 30 mm, while the side armor was deemed sufficient to resist 12,7 mm machine guns.
    2. Kuroneko
      Kuroneko 6 May 2020 16: 12 New
      +3
      Quote: Rich
      The armor, according to the designers, is able to withstand a shot from a 105-mm gun and RPG-7 rocket-propelled grenade. Manual gun loading

      Us it is only good. Such machines are completely unsuitable for the realities of the Far East, and even 105 mm (in fact, 100 mm or 115 mm) have been preserved here only in conservation. And with the Chinese - well, let them try. Although they will also be able to survive unless against their light mountain tanks.
      However, our main Far East-Japanese headache is their excellent fleet (for such a blot under the guise of a country).
      1. English tarantas
        English tarantas 6 May 2020 18: 31 New
        +6
        Such machines are completely unsuitable for the realities of the Far East, and even 105 mm (in fact, 100 mm or 115 mm) are still preserved in our place, it’s only in conservation

        Actually in the Far East, in the event of hostilities, the mob reserve will most likely be armed with 115 mm, given the level of threat in this region, the more obsolete checkmate currently in service there and the great need for better vehicles in the west of the country. Yes, for our Far East there’s no cross-country ability of the car, given that the tanks there aren’t particularly scattered, but not for us, but for the Chinese they change their shoes, and their landscape is better and there are a lot of roads.
        Although they will also be able to survive unless against their light mountain tanks.

        And when was the last time armored vehicles exchanged shells as boxers in the ring? In addition, the Chinese have most of the armored vehicles (of course, as a percentage) do not have modern passive booking, and 105mm can be enough in the forehead.
        blots under the guise of a country

        On this "blot" people live not much less than in Russia.
      2. Fishery
        Fishery 6 May 2020 19: 03 New
        -6
        blot just hung once))
      3. hydrox
        hydrox 7 May 2020 06: 22 New
        0
        Yes, they have a good fleet, but a colonial one: with such a fleet, at the present time, only fight with the Polynesians. How do you think ::
        1. At what distance can the Japanese fleet come to ANY piece of the Russian coast in the context of our opposition?
        2. Even if an amphibious assault is landed on some remote islands, by what forces and means will it be necessary to ensure the vital activity of the amphibious assault forces and their conduct of combat operations to defend the occupied territories, and even more so to develop success?
        3. Does this drug have a chance to stay alive (not to be captured and go home)?
        Answering these questions, it is possible to note the implementation of such a plan as fantastic and more suitable except for the series of "Star Wars" by J. Lucas laughing
        1. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek 7 May 2020 08: 11 New
          0
          But he can provide, for example, a blockade from the sea ....
          1. hydrox
            hydrox 7 May 2020 12: 41 New
            0
            1. What may be the basis for the blockade?
            2. At what distance from our coast can this fleet safely flan in the conditions of the blockade?
            3. What can this fleet do with our fishing and merchant vessels?
            4. How many minutes of life will remain for this fleet from the moment our Foreign Ministry receives an official statement on the establishment of a blockade for our ships, taking into account the fact that peace has not been concluded between our states?
            1. Zaurbek
              Zaurbek 7 May 2020 12: 53 New
              0
              As a fleet in the coalition ... for example, the blockade of trade ports of the Russian Federation.
              1. hydrox
                hydrox 7 May 2020 16: 56 New
                0
                To do this, the coalition must declare war on Russia, but then within an hour, a maximum of two days, any fleet will be laid to rest at the bottom or burned in the parking lot, the carrier units will be destroyed first as targets easily hit by nuclear weapons - I imagine how ALL crews of our strategists, MiG -31 and nuclear submarines will compete for the task of destroying the AUG (guaranteed receipt of the title of Hero of Russia to the commander and orders to the crew)
                1. Zaurbek
                  Zaurbek 7 May 2020 17: 28 New
                  0
                  They can express concern and strengthen sanctions ... and move the blockade from the reach and introduce air cover and anti-aircraft defense forces. They will not attack, they will simply limit the exit and entrance to our ports, there are not so many of them.
                  1. hydrox
                    hydrox 7 May 2020 17: 39 New
                    +1
                    Now there is no concept of reach zone, we can only talk about choosing the time of destruction and choosing the weapon with which this will be done - by this time their country of registration will no longer be on the map.
                    And air cover from hypersound - thanks, ridiculed!
                    1. Zaurbek
                      Zaurbek 7 May 2020 18: 08 New
                      0
                      And who will issue the target designation?
        2. strelokmira
          strelokmira 7 May 2020 16: 13 New
          +1
          1. At what distance can the Japanese fleet come to ANY piece of the Russian coast in the context of our opposition?
          2. Even if an amphibious assault is landed on some remote islands, by what forces and means will it be necessary to ensure the vital activity of the amphibious assault forces and their conduct of combat operations to defend the occupied territories, and even more so to develop success?
          3. Does this drug have a chance to stay alive (not to be captured and go home)?

          Did your ancestor accidentally serve with the tsar as an analyst before Russian-Japanese?
          1. hydrox
            hydrox 7 May 2020 17: 00 New
            +2
            He would not talk to you, but a two-man in such a porch could throw: I, too.
    3. Thrifty
      Thrifty 6 May 2020 17: 29 New
      0
      Weighing 26 tons, what is the weight of the armor? And that she REALLY holds a tandem shot from RPG7? ?? This is a one-time coffin on wheels!
      1. Doliva63
        Doliva63 6 May 2020 19: 24 New
        +4
        Quote: Thrifty
        Weighing 26 tons, what is the weight of the armor? And that she REALLY holds a tandem shot from RPG7? ?? This is a one-time coffin on wheels!

        You do not understand that this is not a tank? Which RPG7? This is a tank destroyer (I really hardly understand that it is a tank), which will not advance in battle formations along with infantry on the enemy. This, apparently, is an ambush - both mobile and in prepared positions. With RPG7 you have to crawl for a long time laughing
        1. Usher
          Usher 6 May 2020 21: 32 New
          0
          Are these ambush tanks teleporting to their positions?
          1. Doliva63
            Doliva63 7 May 2020 21: 56 New
            0
            Quote: Usher
            Are these ambush tanks teleporting to their positions?

            No, of course, they are advanced from the depths of defense, where no RPG-7s are provided for in the state of the Japanese army, why be afraid? laughing
        2. hydrox
          hydrox 7 May 2020 06: 32 New
          0
          Those. Do you propose to consider these devices ONLY as a purely defensive technique to protect Japanese sovereignty?
          Well, thanks, it was somehow relieved, otherwise I first introduced these cars in the middle of the seaside hills or how they wash them off with Amur water. laughing
          1. Doliva63
            Doliva63 7 May 2020 22: 14 New
            0
            Quote: hydrox
            Those. Do you propose to consider these devices ONLY as a purely defensive technique to protect Japanese sovereignty?
            Well, thanks, it was somehow relieved, otherwise I first introduced these cars in the middle of the seaside hills or how they wash them off with Amur water. laughing

            Any military equipment is primarily for protection. And there - how the card will fall drinks
      2. hydrox
        hydrox 7 May 2020 06: 26 New
        +1
        But why?
        Or maybe these japenes are going to fight these machines in the vast Arkansas or Virginia? laughing
    4. Undecim
      Undecim 6 May 2020 18: 01 New
      24
      And so, as they say, fakes are born. Wikipedia rewrote an article by some Japanese blogger - and they went, as they say, nonsense in the village, and couch experts discuss it with enthusiasm.
      To begin with, the Japanese are not going to withdraw from service 740 tanks. Only 370 are planned to be removed from service. These 370 are planned to be replaced by the MCV 16 fire support vehicle, as a more mobile, aerial transport vehicle and intended for use exclusively in Japan with its developed road network.
      The remaining 390 MBTs will focus on Hokkaido and Kyushu.
      Well, about "The armor, according to the designers, is capable of withstanding a shot from a 105-mm gun and RPG-7 rocket-propelled grenade."
      The designers did not say that. This was written by some Japanese no-name blogger Rokusu in 2013. Since then, this infa has been wandering around the network.
      And the designers say that the modular spaced armor of the machine protects it from small arms fire up to 12,7 mm caliber and artillery shell fragments.
      When installing additional screens, the frontal projection protects against shells of automatic 20 mm and 30 mm guns. Experiments were conducted on additional shielding and the installation of dynamic protection in order to "strengthen protection against the effects of kinetic ammunition and RPG shots, as well as from improvised explosive devices."
      That is, we are not talking about one hundred percent protection, we are talking about the maximum possible reduction in exposure in such a weight range.
      A less plausible description can be found at http://www.military-today.com/artillery/mcv.htm or https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/has-japan-just-given-tank-28772.
      1. venik
        venik 6 May 2020 21: 34 New
        +3
        Quote: Undecim
        To begin with, the Japanese are not going to withdraw from service 740 tanks. Only 370 are planned to be removed from service. These 370 are planned to be replaced by the MCV 16 fire support vehicle, as a more mobile, aerial transport vehicle and intended for use exclusively in Japan with its developed road network.

        ===========
        good Yeah! You also noticed this "blunder"! That's right - MCV Type 16 will replace the obsolete MBT Type 74. And they will be an addition to the MBT Type 90 and the very fresh Type 90. And MCV Type 16 they are intended mainly to protect small islands (where it is easy to transfer it by air). drinks
        PS Here's to when an article is written based on data from Wikipedia! laughing
      2. hydrox
        hydrox 7 May 2020 06: 35 New
        +3
        Well, what should you make your comment at the very beginning of the discussion?
        True, then the whole discussion would lose all meaning and content.
        1. venik
          venik 7 May 2020 08: 52 New
          +1
          Quote: hydrox
          Well, what should you make your comment at the very beginning of the discussion?

          ==== Well, she got to the article too late - everyone has already commented! It remains only to insert their 5 cents!
          1. hydrox
            hydrox 7 May 2020 12: 44 New
            +1
            Good weight at SUCH 5 cents! laughing
        2. Undecim
          Undecim 7 May 2020 11: 00 New
          +3
          To keep track of all the blunders on the site and comment on them, you must be on duty around the clock.
    5. +5
      +5 6 May 2020 19: 32 New
      0
      The armor can withstand a shot from its own 105mm gun as I understand it, right?
      With a mass of 26 tons, he can get a little flatter from a 14,5 mm machine gun .... Well, the RPG shots that he can withstand, those before 1975 were physically rotten ....
    6. missuris
      missuris 7 May 2020 20: 49 New
      0
      In 2009, resistance tests to shielding coils were performed using Carl Gustav M2; and against conventional kinetic ammunition, a frontal shield was developed to withstand shots from auto-guns from 20 to 30 mm, while the side armor was deemed sufficient to resist 12,7 mm machine guns.
  2. rocket757
    rocket757 6 May 2020 15: 43 New
    +6
    Strange .... but, they know better.
  3. sav
    sav 6 May 2020 15: 46 New
    -5
    the armored vehicle has a lower mass compared to MBT, which allows them to be transferred using transport aircraft

    And where are they soaped up? To the north?
    1. Peter is not the first
      Peter is not the first 6 May 2020 16: 03 New
      +6
      In the north, wheeled tanks have nothing to do, so this tank is for Japan’s self-defense, where there are many good roads.
      winked Well, you can still swing to Australia, in the Second World War they didn’t reach it, now they suddenly want to continue expansion. drinks
      1. Kuroneko
        Kuroneko 6 May 2020 16: 19 New
        +9
        Quote: Peter is not the first
        In the north, wheeled tanks have nothing to do, so this tank is for Japan’s self-defense, where there are many good roads.

        For self-defense - this is exactly Type 10. It was created just for this. Wheel (and indeed any light tanks, except perhaps purely mountain ones, but this is China so original, it can) - now it is a tool for mobile expeditionary corps. Well, or brigades. In general, rapid reaction forces and attacks, as with a materiel they cannot "hold a blow" at all.
        You still say that the domestic "Octopus-SD" - a weapon of self-defense. = _ =
        1. Stalllker
          Stalllker 6 May 2020 16: 57 New
          +6
          Octopus is a unique machine in its own way. Truly a light tank.
          1. Kuroneko
            Kuroneko 6 May 2020 17: 02 New
            +2
            Quote: Stalllker
            Truly a light tank.

            Here's a plus for you. For this recognition.
            About "Octopus" many copies were already broken at VO, but I still think (and no one could object to anything intelligible so far) that even though it is listed as a "self-propelled anti-tank gun", it’s actually a light tank as he is. And all the verbal balancing act is most likely the result of some covert games in the General Staff, so that you can still put into series and give life to this truly unique machine. "It has no analogues in the world" is already a pretty messy phrase, but "Octopus" really is just that. No one else has anything like it. And the next decade is also unlikely to be expected.
            1. Doliva63
              Doliva63 6 May 2020 19: 33 New
              -1
              Quote: Kuroneko
              Quote: Stalllker
              Truly a light tank.

              Here's a plus for you. For this recognition.
              About "Octopus" many copies were already broken at VO, but I still think (and no one could object to anything intelligible so far) that even though it is listed as a "self-propelled anti-tank gun", it’s actually a light tank as he is. And all the verbal balancing act is most likely the result of some covert games in the General Staff, so that you can still put into series and give life to this truly unique machine. "It has no analogues in the world" is already a pretty messy phrase, but "Octopus" really is just that. No one else has anything like it. And the next decade is also unlikely to be expected.

              If your "light tank" is officially listed in anti-tank units, then it will never become a tank - no commander will ever throw his anti-tank battalion into a tank attack, leaving itself without regular anti-tank equipment, right?
              1. Kuroneko
                Kuroneko 6 May 2020 19: 36 New
                0
                Quote: Doliva63
                If your "light tank" is officially listed in anti-tank units, then it will never become a tank

                No. He is not listed there. Learn the materiel. "Octopus-SD" is a technique of the Airborne Forces, hi. ^ _ ^ This is AVIATION AND FLOATING LIGHT TANK (light tank - in fact).
                And airborne - far away NOT defensive troops, ne?
                1. Doliva63
                  Doliva63 6 May 2020 19: 56 New
                  0
                  Quote: Kuroneko
                  Quote: Doliva63
                  If your "light tank" is officially listed in anti-tank units, then it will never become a tank

                  No. He is not listed there. Learn the materiel. "Octopus-SD" is a technique of the Airborne Forces, hi. ^ _ ^ This is AVIATION AND FLOATING LIGHT TANK (light tank - in fact).
                  And airborne - far away NOT defensive troops, ne?

                  If in the know, tell me, in the state of which units of the Airborne Forces is he? Tank? Anti-tank? From here we will dance. Well, and so, for reference - the "defensive forces" with us are fortified areas and coastal defense troops, that's all.
                  1. Kuroneko
                    Kuroneko 6 May 2020 20: 29 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Doliva63
                    If in the know, tell me, in the state of which units of the Airborne Forces is he? Tank? Anti-tank?

                    You introduced me into a stupor, honestly. Because you don’t even know what to answer plainly to such a pardon question, which is outstanding in its naive idiocy. = _ =
                    First study the structure of the Airborne Forces, and then answer your own question - if there are tank or anti-tank units at all. I’ll even drop one link for you to seed (then go it yourself, google to help).
                    https://voenpro.ru/infolenta/struktura-vdv-rossii
                    There are no such units in the Airborne Forces. There is a completely different organization. Anti-tank - certainly not, because this is the last century, which smacks of the maximum of World War II (when they tried to do something else by inertia, considering at the time paratroopers something like motorized rifles, only with parachutes).
                    1. Doliva63
                      Doliva63 6 May 2020 20: 52 New
                      -2
                      Quote: Kuroneko
                      Quote: Doliva63
                      If in the know, tell me, in the state of which units of the Airborne Forces is he? Tank? Anti-tank?

                      You introduced me into a stupor, honestly. Because you don’t even know what to answer plainly to such a pardon question, which is outstanding in its naive idiocy. = _ =
                      First study the structure of the Airborne Forces, and then answer your own question - if there are tank or anti-tank units at all. I’ll even drop one link for you to seed (then go it yourself, google to help).
                      https://voenpro.ru/infolenta/struktura-vdv-rossii
                      There are no such units in the Airborne Forces. There is a completely different organization. Anti-tank - certainly not, because this is the last century, which smacks of the maximum of World War II (when they tried to do something else by inertia, considering at the time paratroopers something like motorized rifles, only with parachutes).

                      Well, that is, you are not in the know. Then why do you undertake to say something? “Anti-tank - certainly not,” is a masterpiece in general. Go, learn the materiel, young man! Divorced here "experts" like cockroaches laughing I do not presume to call you a victim of the exam, but it is very similar. laughing Tell me honestly - how many years have they served in the Airborne Forces? laughing
              2. Stalllker
                Stalllker 7 May 2020 11: 43 New
                0
                This car is for the Airborne Forces, they have long dreamed of such a support car
        2. Lopatov
          Lopatov 6 May 2020 18: 54 New
          0
          Quote: Kuroneko
          For self-defense - this is exactly Type 10.

          And how to transfer them from place to place?
          Just open the Google satellite, and you’ll understand everything.
          With a Japanese developed network of roads, including in the mountains, namely wheeled tanks.
          1. Kuroneko
            Kuroneko 6 May 2020 19: 11 New
            0
            Quote: Spade
            And how to transfer them from place to place?

            The tank is only 44 tons of weight ("stripped" - generally 40). By the standards of foreign tank building, this is very few. Even the T-72 weighs a little more. And the Japanese didn’t do so from the floundering bay.
            Or according to your logic, and then we are a little more, but still heavier than the T-72 can’t transfer anywhere? The road infrastructure, I recall, is incomparable among us and the Japanese.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 6 May 2020 19: 13 New
              +1
              Quote: Kuroneko
              Tank - only 44 tons of weight. By the standards of foreign tank building, this is very small.

              But even with such a weight, it cannot be quickly thrown along public roads. And others are often not there.
              1. Kuroneko
                Kuroneko 6 May 2020 19: 27 New
                0
                Quote: Spade
                But even with such a weight, it cannot be quickly thrown along public roads.

                Why do you think so? The vast majority of Japanese bridges just support its weight. Plus the highest thrust-weight ratio per ton, which just allows him to climb where not every T-72 will fly. Running backwards in the same way as before, at full speed. I say, it was made specifically for the defense of the Metropolis.
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 6 May 2020 19: 47 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Kuroneko
                  The vast majority of Japanese bridges just support its weight.

                  And the Japanese asphalt can withstand its tracks?
                  Our problem is solved by the organization of column tracks. They do not have such an opportunity.
                  1. Kuroneko
                    Kuroneko 6 May 2020 20: 06 New
                    +3
                    Quote: Spade
                    And the Japanese asphalt can withstand its tracks?

                    Almost ALL tanks have rubber-metal or even just rubber tracks just in case of any parades or relocations in PEACE time. Do not consider the Japanese as a complete dumbass.
                    Well, when the war begins, then here, excuse me, the question of preserving the roadbed in its original form is a forest, and the question arises of the carrying capacity of bridges. That for type 10 with its weight, speed and dynamics is just not a problem, because under the realities of the Japanese transport network, it was created. Or do you think it is a coincidence that most Japanese bridges are designed for 45 tons of weight, and a type 10 weighs 44?
                    1. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 6 May 2020 20: 17 New
                      0
                      Quote: Kuroneko
                      Almost ALL tanks have rubber-metal or even just rubber tracks just in case of any parades or relocations in PEACE time. Do not consider the Japanese as a complete dumbass.

                      Are you sure that they do not kill asphalt?

                      Quote: Kuroneko
                      relocations in PEACE time.

                      Or column roads, or "carts" and nothing else.


                      Quote: Kuroneko
                      Well, when the war begins - then, excuse me, the question of preserving the roadbed in its original form is a forest

                      A tragic but widespread delusion.
                      “They can shoot like that” (c) laughing

                      In fact, in wartime, the condition of the roads is even more critical.
                      For the front eats materiel as if in itself, from shells and combustibles starting, ending with water and condensed milk. And in the opposite direction the wounded, cartridges and other empty containers. Including cars empty.
                      That is, throughput should be high. Vehicle speeds to prevent WTO losses are similar.

                      Under such conditions, breaking the asphalt is not a good idea.
                      1. Kuroneko
                        Kuroneko 6 May 2020 20: 44 New
                        0
                        Sorry, but everything you said is stupid demagogy.
                        You stubbornly ignore the obvious facts of the confinement of Type 10 under the realities of Japan, clinging to some kind of asphalt integrity and so on. Ignore his thrust-to-weight ratio, which is clearly aimed at galloping over the mountains, ignore reverse gear at the front speed, weight that is equally suitable for the load of Japanese bridges ... Tell me, you just don’t want to “lose to someone on the Internet”? You just do not want to admit the obvious - what type 10 did for the defense of the Japanese islands? So I won’t take any money from you for this. Yes, and like you, like an "old man", in any case, they’ll throw you at times more.
                        And as for the asphalt - I already said above: in peacetime, everything is in order with Japanese asphalt. And during the war (and in Japan) there will already be no care. As it was for us, and not only in the Great Patriotic War, but even in the Chechen ones (also part of Russia, if anyone forgot, it’s just that the separatists and Western Warmongers wanted to tear away from us). And nothing. They ground the asphalt with battle tracks - then they restored it. Now Grozny is almost the purest and most beautiful city in Russia.
                        Okay, I don’t really care. It’s just strange to see such an incomprehensible obstinacy. = _ =
                      2. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 6 May 2020 21: 02 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Kuroneko
                        Sorry, but everything you said is stupid demagogy.

                        This is not "stupid demagogy." this is reality.

                        Quote: Kuroneko
                        Ignore his thrust-to-weight ratio, clearly aimed at galloping over the mountains, ignore reverse gear with forward speed, weight that is equally suitable for axle loads ...

                        Indiscreet question: Have you ever driven a tracked vehicle in your life?
                        laughing
                        A bit of "dumb demagoguery"
                        In addition to the “thrust-to-weight ratio” there should also be grip. Otherwise, “thrust-to-weight ratio” will be useless. So far, is everything clear?
                        Normal adhesion of the goose with asphalt without damaging the latter is almost impossible. At normal speeds.
                        Or very slowly, creating a congestion on the roads, or breaking the asphalt, creating a congestion on the roads.


                        Therefore, "stupid demagogues" for a very, very long time, before the Second World War, divided the flows of wheeled and tracked vehicles. By ordering to equip the latter with special "column tracks".
                      3. Kuroneko
                        Kuroneko 6 May 2020 21: 09 New
                        0
                        Yes, yes, I understand you. The Japanese made a “water meter” of 44 tons (and this despite the fact that the norm for the West is 60+ tons of engines), which does not interfere with nichrome, while the asphalt plows 2 meters in depth, but actually it was originally supposed to soar above the ground, otherwise lowlands and for the defense of the Japanese islands is not suitable (how to move on tiny islands? And do not care that the T-72 is heavier, and Russia's distances are incomparable with them).
                        On this, let me end our, without a doubt, CONTENT dialogue.
                        You are right in all respects. A tank (its tasks, sharpening for a specific theater) is nothing, asphalt is our everything.
                      4. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 6 May 2020 21: 12 New
                        0
                        Quote: Kuroneko
                        You are right in all respects. A tank (its tasks, sharpening for a specific theater) is nothing, asphalt is everything.

                        Our grandfathers were stupid ..... Thirty-ton T-34s didn’t drive on public roads, they equipped some column ways.
                        laughing laughing laughing
                      5. Kuroneko
                        Kuroneko 6 May 2020 21: 31 New
                        0
                        Thanks again for your stubbornness.
                        So the courage is obvious and did not come to admit.

                        Well, if you talk in isolation from type 10 (everything, about type 10, the conversation is closed, because everything is clear to me there), then the normal rubber-metal tracks of the USSR at the time of the creation of the T-34 simply could not do (and the rubber was in short supply, not without reason had to create rollers with internal damping and then, which, incidentally, brutally saved rubber). Even the Americans learned to make such more or less durable tracks later. The clutch was very good. so-so, but apparently they took care of the asphalt of El Alamein or the beaches of France.
                        But Churchill, in general, we "grounded." For they simply did not go otherwise. And somehow no one reflexed if such Churchy entered the cities on their precious asphalt, crumbling the coating with welded crests. Paradox?
  • RUSS
    RUSS 6 May 2020 19: 24 New
    0
    Quote: sav
    the armored vehicle has a lower mass compared to MBT, which allows them to be transferred using transport aircraft

    And where are they soaped up? To the north?

    Have you read the article?
  • cost
    cost 6 May 2020 15: 49 New
    +8
    Cons of the combat use of the MCV Type 16 (according to Chinese military analysts)
    Chinese military analysts pay attention to the following points.
    Firstly, like most Japanese-made heavy armored vehicles, the Type 16 wheeled tank does not have positive buoyancy and is not equipped with the appropriate propulsion systems. Therefore, it cannot be used during amphibious landing operations. In addition, in the conditions of stony (sharp stones of large size) coastal line of most of the southern islands of the Japanese archipelago, the use of such wheeled armored vehicles is associated with massive failures of the transmission, suspension and other components.
    Secondly, the operational transfer of the indicated CWS is possible only with Japanese-made military transport aircraft S-2 (XC-2), which can only lift one Type 16 wheeled tank without any additional cargo. According to the Chinese specialized military-technical publication Aviation Knowledge, NWF invested about $ 2,3 billion in the development of this aircraft model. However, only 11 such aircraft have been signed.
    link -https: //invoen.ru/vvt/kolesnyj-tank-tip-16/
  • Doccor18
    Doccor18 6 May 2020 15: 53 New
    +5
    "Armor, according to the designers, is able to withstand a shot from a 105-mm gun and RPG-7 rocket-propelled grenade"
    Almost all tanks have 120 mm.
    the gun. Like a tank destroyer
    will fight with modern
    MBT? But on ideal
    Japanese highway moves fast ...
    1. Kuroneko
      Kuroneko 6 May 2020 16: 25 New
      +3
      Quote: Doccor18
      But on ideal
      Japanese highway moves fast ...

      In China, roads are by no means worse. Not all of China, of course, but their DorStroy as a whole will be an order of magnitude or two better than ours - and there are more and more good roads. For it is possible to stand up to the wall for non-fulfillment.
      1. Doccor18
        Doccor18 6 May 2020 16: 43 New
        +4
        "VP10 in the modification of the" tank destroyer "janes.com
        The new version of the VP10 is a classic anti-tank self-propelled artillery, which according to the Western classification is called “Tank Destroying Vehicle (TDV). The self-propelled gun is armed with an 105-mm weapon, the declared armor penetration rate of which is 650 mm steel, covered with dynamic protection.
        Since the new combat module weighs significantly more than the "native" one, the VP10 has lost amphibious capabilities, and its amphibious compartment has been converted to store ammunition and accommodate the inside of the inhabited combat module. "VP10 in the modification of the" tank destroyer "is an export model of weapons and will not be supplied to the Chinese army."

        "At present, the threat vector has shifted from the Russian direction to the Chinese one; it has been proposed to replace the tanks with lighter wheeled vehicles."

        From 2005 to 2018, the Chinese have already developed several 105-mm projects.
        anti-tank vehicles
        on a wheeled chassis. However
        a very limited number of these went to the PLA
        cars. They were mainly intended for export.
    2. English tarantas
      English tarantas 6 May 2020 18: 37 New
      +2
      Forget it, this is a fake, Type 16 holds a maximum of 12,7. And it will fight almost like all other tanks with each other, not head-on.
  • Lekz
    Lekz 6 May 2020 15: 55 New
    -6
    Whatever the child would entertain, if only he would not cry. And the fact that wheeled is not from a big mind.
  • knn54
    knn54 6 May 2020 16: 00 New
    +1
    They killed all roads with caterpillars.
  • Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 6 May 2020 16: 05 New
    0
    Wheel tank destroyers vs tanks? Yes, another 105 mm gun! Who are they going to fight against?
    So I imagine, the collision of our T-90 with such "millipedes" ... And the wheels scattering in different directions ... laughing
    1. Kuroneko
      Kuroneko 6 May 2020 16: 31 New
      0
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      So I imagine myself, the collision of our T-90 with such "millipedes" ...

      In vain you imagine. Firstly, I have already said above that these creatures - well, clearly not under the realities of the Far East. But secondly, we simply have no T-90 there (in the Far East). There is only the T-80 (and so far a little).
    2. Lopatov
      Lopatov 6 May 2020 18: 56 New
      +4
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      So I imagine myself, the collision of our T-90

      And how to deliver them to the Japanese islands? "Our T-90"?
  • The comment was deleted.
  • BREAKTHROUGH READY
    BREAKTHROUGH READY 6 May 2020 16: 14 New
    +4
    Wheel tanks still do not "replace", but "complement" MBT.
    Many generals all over the world are dreaming of their strike teams, and the Japanese are no exception.
    And so no one refuses full tanks, and type 10 is all on the conveyor.
    1. Kuroneko
      Kuroneko 6 May 2020 17: 18 New
      -1
      Quote: BREAKTHROUGH READY
      Wheel tanks still do not "replace", but "complement" MBT.

      In the UK, they have long thought differently. Well, they will still make their last Challengers a “cosmetic lift”, but in general a course has already been taken for strikers and other boxers. The Angles deliberately scored to develop their new tanks. Although there is nothing to be surprised at - this is the 51st state of America, and when it fails, it will only be required to heroically (but most importantly promptly!) Die from the month, until the United States sends its heavy equipment to Europe. Apparently, in the minds of Western generals, the hope is still smoldering that the Third World Hot will do without a mass launch of ICBMs across all NATO jackals.
  • Yrec
    Yrec 6 May 2020 16: 50 New
    0
    There is optimization. So you can wait for the Japanese to simply give the soldiers a Molotov cocktail and a white bandage with a red spot instead of MBT.
  • Graz
    Graz 6 May 2020 16: 56 New
    +1
    they lie Japs, expeditionary force they cook, quick reaction forces
  • APASUS
    APASUS 6 May 2020 16: 57 New
    -1
    This is a car for asphalt, they have roads paved everywhere in Japan. And how about moving over rough terrain or city blockages during battles in the city?
    1. Doliva63
      Doliva63 6 May 2020 20: 04 New
      0
      Quote: APASUS
      This is a car for asphalt, they have roads paved everywhere in Japan. And how about moving over rough terrain or city blockages during battles in the city?

      Are our armored personnel carriers (mostly wheeled, if that) machines for asphalt? laughing
      1. APASUS
        APASUS 6 May 2020 22: 36 New
        +1
        Quote: Doliva63
        Are our armored personnel carriers (mostly wheeled, if that) machines for asphalt?

        Nothing that material about a wheeled tank, do you understand the difference? Using your logic, I can throw an idea for comparison .......... laughing laughing laughing
        1. Doliva63
          Doliva63 7 May 2020 22: 10 New
          +1
          Quote: APASUS
          Quote: Doliva63
          Are our armored personnel carriers (mostly wheeled, if that) machines for asphalt?

          Nothing that material about a wheeled tank, do you understand the difference? Using your logic, I can throw an idea for comparison .......... laughing laughing laughing

          Perhaps I agree with you, the difference is 10-12 tons - I did not ride such "wheels", I can not imagine how it is. drinks
  • nb bnl
    nb bnl 6 May 2020 17: 05 New
    -1
    they adopt new equipment and Russia will experience a boomerang
  • Lord of the Sith
    Lord of the Sith 6 May 2020 17: 07 New
    -2
    At best, for use within the city, and for self-defense in Japan itself.
  • Thunderbolt
    Thunderbolt 6 May 2020 17: 13 New
    -1
    The Japanese revived the Marine Corps and now change tanks to wheeled vehicles. Are they getting ready to defend their investment in Oceania or to throw to the mainland? I think both of them. I think that in the defense of their own territory their fleet and close alliance with the United States can play a major role. But participation in expeditionary operations / together with the same USA and smaller allies / --- such wheeled vehicles are not bad.
  • Razvedka_Boem
    Razvedka_Boem 6 May 2020 18: 06 New
    -1
    Replayed in World of Tanks ..)
  • toha124
    toha124 6 May 2020 22: 36 New
    0
    This decision has its own beauty. If some power thinks about attacking Japan, then the invading forces themselves will have problems with heavy equipment. After all, Japan is a separate island warmed by the rays of the rising sun. The first echelons of the invasion will consist of marines and airborne troops. Yes, if sea landings are not dropped into the sea, and airborne landings are not located at the landing sites, then the enemy of the Amaterasu sons will seize the ports and be able to unload any equipment in commercial quantities, including MBT. And then all that remains is to save the portrait of the emperor. But, if this is not brought to the fore, then a technique that is comparable to MBT in terms of firepower may be enough for them. Moreover, when defending the islands from the landing, the mobility of their troops is just important (you never know where the gaijins will hit). And with this, the wheeled vehicles are all right, as is the case with the road network in Nippon. The samurai blade must be fast.