Soviet paradise. Archive: 6457 patients refused hospitalization

One of the institutions in the Penza region, where denunciations are kept in abundance

Meanwhile, a hermit in a dark cell
Here the terrible denunciation writes to you:
And you will not leave the court of the world,
How not to get away from God's judgment.
A.S. Pushkin. Boris Godunov

History and documents. Materials this cycle They aroused great interest in the reading public of VO, because, although the site gathered a lot of experts on everything and everything, they do not have access to the archives, especially the archives of the OK CPSU, and rely only on their own memory and what “the men said in smoking room. " And when it comes to the achievements of the Soviet era, for some reason everyone remembers free medicine, but no one talks about its quality. “Freebie, come” - this is how my students usually “mantled” before exams, that is, for our readers at the appropriate age, the main thing is that it should be free, and how it doesn’t matter. A person’s memory is imperfect, with age it tends to keep only the good, and the bad - to forget. So some readers of VO write that there were no epidemics in the USSR, that everyone (absolutely everyone!) Received emergency medical care, there were no drug addicts, and so on and so forth. But archival documents do not have mercy for the past. Notes, receipts, reports, reports are piling up in the archives, in a word there are a lot of things that allow a different look at the past. And since the readers of VO so loved the topic of free medicine in the USSR (which is understandable in the current epidemic), I went to the regional party archive of OFOPO GAPO and randomly took the 1963 document. It is called so: “Information on the status and measures to improve medical services in the cities and working villages of the region (Appendix to paragraph 17, etc. 7. Minutes of the meeting of the Bureau of the CPSU OK from 14.01 to 16.03.1963. F. 5893. Opt. 1 Unit 12. The Penza Industrial Regional Committee of the CPSU. Special Sector).

And then ... Further, it is hardly worth retelling this curious document, it is easier to rewrite it one to one. So, we read.

* * *

“From year to year the network of medical institutions is growing in the region. There are 27 hospitals with 3145 beds, 3 outpatient clinics, 3 dispensaries, 3 ambulance stations, 117 health centers at industrial enterprises, 16 feldsher-obstetric centers, 32 nurseries for 2210 beds, 2 children's homes for 160 beds and one children's sanatorium with 50 places ...
Over the past two years, a surgical hospital with 100 beds, a clinic at the city hospital No. 1, and a blood transfusion station have been built in Penza. A hospital with 150 beds was built in the city of Kuznetsk.

N. Lomovskaya, Serdobskaya hospitals, a maternity hospital in the city of Kuznetsk, a hospital in the village of Belinskselmash, a building with 25 beds in the city of Belinsk, an oncology clinic, a hospital in the village of Chemodanovka are being built. In the city of Penza, the construction of a city hospital with 240 beds in the South Glade region has begun.

A total of 1427 doctors work in the region, of which 964 are doctors in cities and workers' settlements.

Most hospitals in the cities are provided with the latest equipment and instruments, the quality of patient care, and diagnostics have improved. The incidence of diphtheria, poliomyelitis, and gastrointestinal infections has markedly decreased.

However, despite the achievements, there are serious shortcomings in the work of the medical institutions of the city and workers' settlements.

The allocated allocations for the construction of medical institutions are not being developed from year to year. In 1961, out of 340 thousand rubles. 305 thousand rubles, or 87 percent, were disbursed, and in 1962, out of 400, only 251,9 thousand rubles, or 62,9 percent. Started construction does not end for years, funds are sprayed. The construction of N. Lomovskaya, Serdobskaya, Kamenskaya hospitals, which have been under construction for eight or more years, was unacceptably delayed.

Unplanned and ill-considered regional health department carries out repair and reconstruction of existing institutions. For the second year, the city hospital №3 is undergoing major repairs in Penza.

In the cities of the region, instead of 5.600 hospital beds, there are 3.145, and therefore hospital admissions are denied. So, in 1962 city and regional hospitals refused to hospitalize 6.457 patients, 4.471 of them due to lack of places.

Due to the fact that the regional neuropsychiatric hospital is designed for 1000 beds, and there are 1.300 patients in it, every day 300 patients sleep on the floor.

An acute shortage is felt in the cities in the nursery. Instead of 5000 places there are 2210. Currently, there are 7 thousand children who need to be identified in a nursery. Great need for child care facilities is available at the watchmaking, CAM, compressor, Penzmash, Penzkhimmash and other workers' factories.

There are 3700 women working in the regional communications department, but there are no childcare facilities here. In the trading organizations of the city of Penza there is a need for nurseries and kindergartens for 600 children.

The seven-year plan for the development of the national economy in the cities of Penza and Kuznetsk provides for the opening of five pharmacies in newly built residential buildings. However, not a single pharmacy has been opened in recent years.

In extremely difficult conditions, the central pharmacy warehouse operates, which is located in unsuitable rooms. Due to the lack of storage facilities, expensive equipment is stored in the yard.

Along with the elimination of a number of diseases in the region, the growth of tuberculosis patients is of serious concern: while in 1960 those who died from tuberculosis accounted for 4,5 percent of all deaths in the region, then in 1962 - 4,71 percent. In total, there are 8 thousand patients with tuberculosis in the region, 2400 of whom are bacillary. If in the city of Penza, as of 1 / 1.62, 1759 patients with tuberculosis were registered, of which 596 were bacillary, then by 1 / 1.63 there were 2028 registered, of which 456 were bacilli, with 359 children.

Cancer prevention and treatment are poorly placed. Their number in the region is increasing. In 1962, 1824 cancer patients were again registered. In total, there are 5159 such patients in the region. Hospital beds for such patients are not enough, and the building of the oncological clinic is being built for the sixth year.

So far, such a social disease as sexually transmitted diseases has not been eliminated, of which 919 people are ill (of which urban - 699).

The percentage of injuries is high. In 1962, 60 thousand injuries were recorded in the region, of which 16 thousand were registered in the city of Penza alone.

In some hospitals, even the regional center there is an overshoot of patients.

Major shortcomings exist in the medical care of children. In kindergartens and kindergartens there is a large crowding, which causes an increased incidence. In 1962, compared with 1961, child mortality remains at the same level - 3,4 (in cities and towns of the region). The highest infant mortality rates are observed in the cities of Penza - 3,6, Kuznetsk - 3, 7, Kamenka - 3,6 (with a regional average of 2,9).

There are dairy kitchens for children only in 8 cities. In Penza, the dairy kitchen, due to the distance, cannot serve all children in need of food.

Working people are not adequately provided with outpatient care. Many hospitals, clinics and first-aid posts are poorly equipped with modern medical equipment, instruments, soft and hard equipment.

Instead of 1392 doctors, only 964 work in the cities of the region. 428 doctors are lacking. In two years, 303 doctors arrived in the region, of which 150 doctors arrived in the city, and 214 left the region, and 110 doctors from the city.

The regional health department was dismissed for abuse of official position by the doctor of the oncological dispensary, Comrade Davydkin, and the chief physician of the regional psychoneurological hospital, Comrade Ivaykov. Almost all employees of the regional health department work part-time and receive one and a half rates. Medical ethics is violated.

In 1962, a group of drug addicts was identified in the city of Penza (I can’t stop myself from “!” - Auth.), Which was facilitated by the former inspector of the regional health department Soskov and the doctor of the city hospital No. 3 Nefedova.

In January 1963, at the Penza Infectious Disease Hospital, Banina's nurse mistakenly introduced penicillin to another instead of one child, after which the child died instantly.

Pharmacies often lack the most popular medicines (for headaches, aspirin, vitamins, glucose, ammonia, etc.). There are no thermometers, syringes. While checking in the pharmacy No. 3 of the city of Penza, out of 688 prescriptions submitted from the population, 171 were refused, i.e. 25 percent.

Very poor medical care in factories. For example, at the SAM factory, where there is an equipped health center with a gynecological office, in 1962 a gynecologist carried out a reception only 16 times instead of the 50 prescribed. Since March 1961 there was no appointment with an ophthalmologist, and from May 1960 there was no appointment with a surgeon and otolaryngologist.

Clinical examination is carried out formally, its effectiveness is not studied, patients are not hospitalized in a timely manner. In 1962, due to temporary disability, 2,5 million working days were lost, which is equivalent to the fact that during the whole year 8 thousand workers did not work due to illness. Disability benefits paid for 1962 were 7 million 649 thousand rubles. In some cases, the incidence of temporary disability is artificially high. This can be found in the hospital number 1 of the city of Penza, N. Lomovskaya, Serdobsky hospitals.

From year to year, the sanitary condition of cities and workers' villages remains unsatisfactory. The streets are littered with snow, littered with paper, butts. Yards of houses are not cleaned.

Penza City Executive Committee in 1961-1962 He made a number of decisions on improving the sanitary condition in the city, but they are carried out extremely unsatisfactorily, since the city executive committee is not dealing with this issue every day, but campaigning.

Serious shortcomings in the work of medical institutions are evidenced by both letters and statements by workers. In total, in 1962, the regional health department received 817 complaints and proposals, of which 88, that is, 10,7 percent, were examined with violations of the established deadlines. ”

* * *

There was still more there, but I'm tired of typing it all. And without that, such "paradise" opened up that even though you run there in a time machine and enjoy all these delights of free medicine!

One would like to say: good regretted to the Soviet paradise, where everything was for the good of man!

He was already closing the folder when the eye habitually snatched out another report on the marriage at work. The Bureau of the OK CPSU reported (the same document, p. 322) that at the Penza diesel plant a complaint is received for every sixth diesel engine released, but the situation cannot be rectified!

Comments

[kalibr]

You can write whatever you want. Before you is an official document reflecting the realities of that life. All data are given in the text. I didn't invent it. So it was and there was no getting away from it. Are you satisfied with the position of the ostrich? Well, let the head not be visible, the ass is sticking out anyway. And by the way, this is the legacy of the "collective farm" - visible rudeness. A little something wrong - immediately "surname", immediately "crap", mental retardation ... All this you demonstrate only the low level of culture of a typical "scoop". That is, old age has silvered you only on the outside, but what was inside did not turn you into silver.

[Donald72]

Hold on! An hour will not pass if you are either an Israeli agent or, more likely, an inveterate Bandera. It is so customary here.

[kalibr]

Quote: Donald72

Hold on! An hour will not pass if you are either an Israeli agent or, more likely, an inveterate Bandera. It is so customary here.

If you’ve been at VO since 2014, then you can remember how many intelligence agents I’ve already visited, as well as a Vlasov, Bandera ... State Department agent. Do not get used to it!

[AU Ivanov.]

Red fish sold in mining villages? Were bananas available for sale? Ham? Hard cheeses? It is unlikely. And not all villages were miners. In our village in the shops it was a ball of Katya, even a blue chicken could not be bought. Do you want meat sausages or other goodies - go ahead, take the train: 5 hours to St. Petersburg or 8 to Moscow. Sausage trains that just appeared? And of the manufactured goods, it was very sparse for us to buy something more decent again in St. Petersburg or Moscow, and if you are lucky, you can buy something there. Such was your soviet paradise.

[Alexander Suvorov]

AS Ivanov. (Andrei)
Red fish sold in mining villages? Were bananas available for sale? Ham? Hard cheeses? It is unlikely.

There may not have been any bananas, but there were still ham, cheeses and red fish. Miners were provided in the first category.

And of the manufactured goods, it was very sparse for us to buy something more decent again in St. Petersburg or Moscow, and if you are lucky, you can buy something there. Such was your soviet paradise.

But in your capitalist "paradise" everything is ... But there is no money, no work, no villages, no miners, no medicine, otherwise yes, it’s a complete paradise. I mean, quiet as in paradise or in a cemetery, which is closer to the truth.

P.S. And yet, the fish was red, not dyed, the milk was surprisingly from cow's milk, and not from coconut oil, like ice cream, the sausage was made from meat. But there really was no banana, and as soon as people lived, I won’t know ...

[AU Ivanov.]

But isn’t that the energy industry switching to gas and coal in such quantities is no longer needed? Previously, a third of the coal mined went to locomotive traction. Will we return the locomotives? Sausage now has soy, deshmans and meat, but more expensive, can you really make a choice of several dozen varieties? This also applies to cheese, fish and ice cream. The miners, perhaps, were provided, as well as the inhabitants of Moscow, but the Non-Chernozem Region did not run very far away. Thank you native party!

[Alexander Suvorov]

AS Ivanov. (Andrei)
But isn’t that the energy industry switching to gas and coal in such quantities is no longer needed?

Not really needed? Did they all switch to gas? Only now I somehow see the opposite picture, coal is not needed, not because it is not needed, but not needed because the enterprises are closing. And we only pull gas abroad, in the outback it was not there, and it is not, and most likely it will never be under this power. The number of operating enterprises is steadily declining. For all the years of post-Soviet Russia, we have not built ANYONE, but dozens have ceased to exist. Thousands of people have lost their jobs and are forced to go to Moscow on shifts. Here it is your crap capitalist "paradise", so that you all bent along with your paradise.

Sausage now has soy, deshmans and meat, but more expensive, can you really make a choice of several dozen varieties?

Who will choose? Miners without money and without work or pensioners with a beggarly pension, who in pharmacies recount the last pennies before the cash register?

Shove your arguments, where did you get it from, well, you understand where ...

[AU Ivanov.]

Well, suppose that in St. Petersburg there was not a single thermal power station on coal, everything was on gas, everyone was transferred from solid fuel. If these notorious factories produced something worthwhile, not inferior in price / quality to foreign analogues, then they would not have closed, and, alas, the products are not in demand and the bankrupt plant. The laws of the economy have not been canceled. You still cry that with motorization the cabmen were left without work, too, there were byad-byad. Utesov even had a song about it. Progress is being made, and neither the draftsmen in the design bureau, nor the navigator in civil aviation, are no longer needed. How old coal volumes are not needed.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

If these notorious factories produced something worthwhile, not inferior in price / quality to foreign analogues, then they would not have closed, and so, alas,

The impression is that you are raving. Can you remember that for example about 40 percent of the civil aviation market belonged to the USSR? And how many machines were sold then? And now? And the products of the chemical industry? The factories were closed because the ruling clique wanted to pocket all these plants, in any form, at least in the form of trade pavilions, or cottage villages. I don’t understand why for all the time you want the USSR, are you a beneficiary of the collapse of the USSR? Or do you get any benefit from writing such nonsense? After all, a normal person cannot write a deliberate lie.

[AU Ivanov.]

If not for the colossal financial injections and the subsequent transfer of Renault, AvtoVAZ would also have rested in a Bose. The reason: no one needs the buckets with nuts - the people have a choice. GA was not so simple either, which is why airlines preferred to buy A and B, instead of Tu and Il. From what? And more economical. More cost effective. The fuel consumption of foreign cars is less, they are also on the ground, less than domestic ones. Like truckers, foreign cars were preferred to MAZ and KAMAZ for a reason because of fashion. They are more convenient, they carry more, faster and eat less. More reliable. And tell me, on what Soviet main tractor was the air conditioner? Refrigerator? Heater? Which car do you choose for work? And yes - I am a beneficiary, no doubt: I have the opportunity to choose. An opportunity not to stand with an outstretched hand and wait for it to be allocated, but simply to take and purchase, here and now.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

If not for the colossal financial injections and the subsequent transfer of Renault, AvtoVAZ would also have rested in a Bose. The reason: no one needs the buckets with nuts - the people have a choice.

Do you think that transferring domestic plants to foreigners is good? In my opinion, the reason is in the thieving officials and in the same thieving factory management.

Quote: AS Ivanov.

GA was not so simple either, which is why airlines preferred to buy A and B, instead of Tu and Il. From what? And more economical. More cost effective.

Soviet planes were cheaper, as far as efficiency, then at that time the figures were comparable. The reason is still the same, thieves.

Quote: AS Ivanov.

And tell me, on what Soviet main tractor was the air conditioner? Refrigerator? Heater?

And you would compare the prices for imported trucks and for domestic ones, and then you would consider what is more profitable for the national economy of the USSR. And the automotive industry was never a strong point of the USSR, but it had its own, there were jobs, etc. For example, one workplace at a VAZ "pulled" seven workplaces from subcontractors.

[AU Ivanov.]

The transfer of AvtoVAZ Renault is wonderful. They finally began to produce normal cars, no worse than foreign cars of the same price category. Soviet aircraft were at the world level in the 60s, then we fell behind. Both for engines and avionics.
In the auto industry, it is better to produce 1 reliable, convenient for the driver, car, expensive, which will always be in operation, than 2 cheap, uncomfortable cars, one of which will be under repair, but it was so. They knew how to make nuclear and space stations, the products of the defense industry were excellent, and civilian, in particular consumer goods, was at the garbage level. A disgrace.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

Renault AvtoVAZ transfer is wonderful

Can we sell Roscosmos, KRET, Rosatom? What else can you sell gentlemen liberals?

[AU Ivanov.]

And nobody says anything about Roskosmos with Rosatom and the defense industry, their products are world-class, and therefore they did not fall apart. They are competitive. And what we ourselves do not know how to do is best conveyed to those who do it professionally.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

And what we ourselves do not know how to do is best conveyed to those who do it professionally.

I’m wondering, the USSR didn’t at first professionally know how to make rockets, neither ships, nor tractors, probably it was necessary to sell plants to foreigners right away, stupid people, probably? The Chinese, their motor-blocks and this hour are worse than the Japanese, the auto industry is worse than the European one, the electronics sucks not so long ago, they don’t sell enterprises, they don’t ruin them, aren't they stupid people?

[AU Ivanov.]

Shipbuilding, quite good for itself, we inherited from the Russian Empire: Baltzavod, Admiralty Shipyards. But the Chinese fellows, no doubt: have learned to make products no worse than European? Who prevented the Soviet Union from catching up and overtaking capstranes in terms of product quality. Not in quantity, but in variety and quality. Now try to fix this legacy. Difficult, very difficult.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

Shipbuilding, quite good for itself, we inherited from the Russian Empire: Baltzavod, Admiralty Shipyards. But the Chinese fellows, no doubt: have learned to make products no worse than European? Who prevented the Soviet Union from catching up and overtaking capstranes in terms of product quality. Not in quantity, but in variety and quality. Now try to fix this legacy. Difficult, very difficult.

I have already heard this, "all the good things have remained from tsarist times," teach history, not from modern school textbooks. In terms of "product quality", the USSR did a lot of products much better than in the West. And the Soviet Union was hindered by national traitors, formed from the party nomenklatura, who are still at the helm, who privatized and sold everything that was allowed and what was not, and whom, by the way, you are always protecting and whitewashing.

[ser56]

Quote: aleksejkabanets

did much better than in the west.

do not tell more specifically?

Quote: aleksejkabanets

And the national traitors formed from the party nomenclature prevented the Soviet Union,

So the USSR created these party nominee-payers And since they didn’t really know how to do something, they turned the richest country into a slaughterhouse that bought grain and frozen meat abroad

Quote: aleksejkabanets

"all good things have remained from tsarist times," teach history, not according to modern school textbooks.

go to any city and see - the most beautiful houses built under tsarism ...

[Stas157]

Why do we need Solzhenitsyn, we have Shpakovsky on the site!

There are people about whom they say - they will find dirt everywhere. So our "fellow" found some kind of documentary with flaws, and now extrapolates to the entire Soviet reality. They say you don’t remember everything and don’t know, but I’m a documentary for you!

The "works" of this "author" do not bear anything but bewilderment.

[kalibr]

So there are a lot of them, such documents. So much so that you are no longer surprised at why the 91st happened. No, but with regard to ballet, we were always ahead of everyone!

[Stas157]

Quote: kalibr

So there are a lot of them, such documents.

There are a lot of documentaries. But someone is only looking for worse. If you consider overall situation - According to the UN, the standard of living in the USSR was in 11th place (and now what?). So do not spit on the past, Vecheslav.

Quote: kalibr

So much so that you are no longer surprised at why the 91st happened.

Why are you doing this? Did the people want a collapse? Was there a revolution and civil war? People were happy with everything, and the rotten elites betrayed the USSR.

[kalibr]

Quote: Stas157

and the USSR was betrayed by rotten elites.

And the people kept silently eating ... but now ... everything is for ...

[Nagaibak]

kalibr "And the people kept silently eating ... but now ... everything is for .."
Well, people, how do you put it, and now everything’s doing it.))) But I’m wondering if you have paradise right now in your city?))) In medicine?)))

[kalibr]

Quote: Nagaibak

But I’m wondering if you have paradise right now in your city?))) In medicine?

I am personally 80% satisfied.

[Nagaibak]

The fact that you are satisfied is understandable.))) Compared to 60 years, have you been satisfied?))) Do not tell me how many new hospitals in your city were built after the fall of the USSR? And how many hospitals in your area have been closed over these years of paradise? Maybe it made sense to compare the quantity and level of medicine since at least the year 90?))) Why didn’t you give data for any year 1925? And with our time would be compared. Why be shy?))) In the 60s, people still went to tunics in some places for well-known reasons. 15 years have passed since the war.

[Akuzenka]

Well, yes, there are documents, no doubt. But about the current time will be judged by the absence of such documents. And since there are no such documents, then under capitalism all these problems have been resolved !!!!! Paradise is built in Russia! Good luck in building such a paradise. Let him overtake you and trample on you.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

A disgrace.

You and Shpakovsky are like two marabou birds. strictly fulfill your mission. You are simply not meant for more.

[Simargl]

Quote: aleksejkabanets

Do you think that transferring domestic plants to foreigners is good?

It is a very badly! However, technological stagnation and quality below the skirting board is even worse.

Quote: aleksejkabanets

In my opinion, the reason is in the thieving officials and in the same thieving factory management.

Read about the plant on Lurka - there are up to 40% of "dead souls", there was a time, "worked". "Effective menаgeras "also do not always bring profit.

Quote: aleksejkabanets

Soviet planes were cheaper, as far as efficiency, then at that time the figures were comparable.

At the time of creation - yes, comparable. However, they began to lose very quickly in terms of noise, fuel efficiency, and comfort.

Quote: aleksejkabanets

The reason is still the same, thieves.

No. This is an effective management of the leadership of a country in which "people are already eating" ... and then the borders were opened ...

Quote: aleksejkabanets

And you would compare the prices of imported trucks and domestic, and then you would consider that it is more profitable for the national economy of the USSR.

Those. on people (workers) - do not care? But this is labor productivity, accidents, injuries (occupational diseases). No-e-e-e ... if "socialism" - he is - nafig he is needed!

Quote: aleksejkabanets

And automotive industry was never a strong point of the USSR

This is not an excuse!

[Tatyana]

Shpakovsky thinks metaphysically, not dialectically. Namely.
The author took a document from 1963 at random from the regional party archives of OPOPO GAPO and quotes it. They say, the Russians, pushing for the Soviet regime, enjoy the archival truth about "free" medicine in the Penza region of 1961-1963!

Why say metaphysically?
- Yes, because application of the principle of determinism (i.e., the principle of causation in the dietetic-materialistic method) in the arguments of the historian Shpakovsky is completely absent. The author sees only that which metaphysically lies on the surface and does not want to look dialectically inside the cause and effect of the research he cited.
- Moreover, and historical principle of diamat in the arguments of the author also missing. Well, he compared medicine in 1963 during the Soviet era in the Penza region with medicine in 2020 as a fragment of the USSR — the Russian Federation — and not really! And then what?

Meanwhile, philosophical methods are algorithms of thinking, as in mathematics. Wrong "counted" - wrong, not reliable answer and you will receive.
And there are many philosophical methods in history, but not all of them are scientific and therefore not all lead to reliable conclusions.

So, what is Shpakovsky’s mistake!
1. Historically, in the scientific plan, it is not entirely correct to associate the data of medical services in 1963 in the Penza Region with medical services under capitalism in the Russian Federation since 2020. 57 years have passed !!!
2. In 1963, only 18 years passed in the USSR after the Second World War!
3. A decomposition of the party apparatus began with the advent of N. S. Khrushchev after the death of Stalin in 1953. After all, Khrushchev abolished the criminal responsibility of the party leadership for not fulfilling plans!

I wonder how a professional historian can ignore such things, essentially pouring mud on the Soviet socialist system and blocking modern capitalism. The author forgot what modern capitalism in the Russian Federation was based on in the 1990s!

[kalibr]

Quote: Tatiana

metaphysically lies on the surface and does not want to dialectically look inside the cause and effect of the research he cited

And the fig? Those who come here, and this is quite enough. They would never have seen such documents ... And so - another document of the era introduced into mass information circulation!

[Tatyana]

Quote: kalibr

And the fig? Those who come here, and this is quite enough. They would never have seen such documents ... And so - another document of the era introduced into mass information circulation!

The document you put into circulation with elements of political provocation on your part against our country, against the Soviet period, against the restoration of our country from ruin after the Second World War. But I considered you an honest scientist, an objective historian! I was mistaken in you.

You might not write about diamat, not emphasize it as a method of thinking, but you, as a historian, are simply obliged to think methodologically, scientifically and competently, and not engage in outright political manipulation and powdering the brains of the Russian population and foreign readers of "VO"!

And the readers (no matter what they were by education) of your articles, you, as an author, must still be respected. For these are our people - the citizens of our country.
But arrogance is always a bad adviser when it comes to professionalism.

[Buxloff]

Quote: Tatiana

You introduced with elements of political provocation against our country, against the Soviet period, against the restoration of our country after the Second World War. And I considered you an honest scientist, an objective historian. I was mistaken in you.

Tatiana thinks the same thing, as it is disgusting to read all this .. God is his judge!

[kalibr]

Quote: Tatiana

I was mistaken in you.
I’m crying from a disorder of feelings ...
to foreign readers of "VO"!
But let them see what our party archives are hiding!
And the readers (no matter what they were by education) of your articles, you, as an author, must still be respected.

And I "all the same" just respect. I answer here, you see ...

[mmaxx]

A document is a document. It is a fact. And that’s all.

[sniperino]

Quote: aleksejkabanets

And how many machines were sold then? And now? And the products of the chemical industry?

How, I remember, was the case

Everyone behind us in steel production
We overtook all in iron foundry
But in an intimate way, don’t say
We are all sorry, not up to par.

"To each according to his needs." These are the needs of the bourgeois masses and flooded into the 90s. Where did these masses come from ...

[ser56]

Quote: aleksejkabanets

And how many machines were sold then? And now

Do you know the quality of those machines? for example turning? with not polished gears? and hammered bolts at the famous Tbilisi factory ... The modern center will be replaced by 20-30 such machines ...

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: ser56

Do you know the quality of those machines? for example turning? with not polished gears? and bolts hammered with a sledgehammer at the famous Tbilisi plant ... hi The modern center will be replaced by 20-30 such machines ...

Imagine, I’ve been working since 1990, and until the death of the Armavir Electrotechnical Plant, the instrumentation and adjustment engineer just repaired turning and surface grinding, and circular grinding machines. I haven’t seen any bolts clogged with a sledgehammer, try to hammer the bolt with a sledgehammer yourself in a car, I will see what you can do.

[ser56]

Quote: aleksejkabanets

hammer a bolt with a sledgehammer in a car, I'll see what you get.

break a fool? on the bed and in the tin of a car?

Quote: aleksejkabanets

just repaired turning and flat grinding, and circular grinding machines.

came across products

Quote: ser56

Tbilisi plant.

?
I’m not talking about the Communist Party or Izhevsk ...

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: ser56

break a fool? on the bed and in the tin of a car?

The bolt bends usually, if you hammer it, the technical expert from you is so-so. Bolts with a persistent thread are usually put in the frame, think before you write.

[ser56]

Quote: aleksejkabanets

The bolt bends normally, if you hammer it,

so you don’t even know how to hit straight? did you hold the chisel in your hands?

Quote: aleksejkabanets

technical expert of you so-so

Seriously ? I will punish, see below ...

Quote: aleksejkabanets

Bolts with a persistent thread are usually put in the frame, think before you write.

but the bolts can be set not red-hot, so you play the clowning ...

[ser56]

Quote: Alexander Suvorov

For all the years of post-Soviet Russia, we have not built ANYTHING

where is it with us?

[sergo1914]

Quote: ser56

Quote: Alexander Suvorov

For all the years of post-Soviet Russia, we have not built ANYTHING

where is it with us?

He has his own world. Through the looking glass.

[Boris Razor]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

But isn’t that the energy industry switching to gas and coal in such quantities is no longer needed?

Even the Germans, with a firm hand, protect their coal industry from attacks by all kinds of greens. Throughout the world, coal generation today plays either a leading or simply an important role. Do you offer us to close the mines? Ahead of the planet, huh?

[mmaxx]

There is no longer any coal in Germany. No need to tell tales.

[your1970]

Quote: Alexander Suvorov

from cow’s milk, not coconut oil,

- I’m embarrassed to ask, - where did the herds from in your mining region come from? Did you graze on the dumps?
Our creameries drove milk powder day and night-- and then you diluted it with water there and raised the fat content including ... yes, yes, the very palm !!!
Then you drank the "real" cow's milk .....

And about gas which is like "current is being pulled abroad" - over the past 15 years, twice (!!!!!!!) more settlements have been gasified - than in the entire post-war history of the USSR ...

And the factories ... everything was also fun with them ... Who remembers "Colchis"? This pepelats in the organizations was dragged on a tie out of sight into the backyards closer to the scrap metal - because it was impossible to bring it to mind.
And combines ... officially according to the factory passport, they lost up to 10% of grain, but in reality more ..
Zil157- the devils that were released for how many years without a power steering (although he was and it was put)
Cooling faucet VAZ 2101-40 years old let out the car but couldn’t make it so it didn’t turn sour.
Can anyone explain why in the USSR the Tyumen black battery lasted for a year and a half, and in the 90s the same Tyumen batteries worked 3, and they really worked !!!!
Cassette recorders almost all chewed cassettes, even new ones.
Color TVs of the 1st generation weighed like a cast-iron bridge, cost similarly, and even showed with a lilac shade ...
And so all the products of the USSR ...

Z.Y. the oligarchs don’t pay me, I don’t have Gazprom shares, I just don’t like the praise of what really wasn’t there. In the USSR there were very few goods that were at least in minimum demand, 200-300 items, not more.

ZYZY the author had to attach at least a couple of scans of pages, so that tantrums with shouts of "Liar !!" less was

[ser56]

Quote: your1970

1st generation color televisions

and repaired once a month ... and weighed 60 kg

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: ser56

and repaired once a month ... and weighed 60 kg

The Gorizont TV, bought in the mid-80s, has been repaired exactly 9 time in 1 years of operation. The second time the master was called when the UHF unit was connected to it. So don't la-la. And reduce the weight by a third.

[your1970]

TV Horizon was 2 (!!!) Generations, less fun, but did not climb out of the repair

[ser56]

Quote: Mordvin 3

And reduce the weight by a third.

I'm talking about Rubin's parents ... dragged with his father from 4 floors

[brat07]

Quote: ser56

Quote: your1970

1st generation color televisions

and repaired once a month ... and weighed 60 kg

Well, at the expense of 60kg., You "bent" a little.
He weighed about 30kg. Although, only the supply transformer weighed not weakly.

[ser56]

Quote: brat07

Well, at the expense of 60kg., You "bent" a little.

Seriously ? read https://pikabu.ru/story/sovetskie_tsvetnyie_televizoryi_marki_rubin_skan_kataloga_4614586
I do not expect apologies for the slander but I will be pleasantly surprised

[brat07]

I take my words back.
Then he was young and weighing 60kg. seemed at 30.

[ser56]

Quote: brat07

Then was young

I was young myself, but it was hard and uncomfortable to carry ...

[AU Ivanov.]

And these TVs burned only on the way. TV sets were incendiary. And the boots "Skorokhod" are armor-piercing.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: your1970

Cassette recorders almost all chewed cassettes, even new ones.

Gee, about cassette mafons I can answer exactly 99%. They all chewed. And the Japanese chewed no worse, or even better than ours. They gave me in the late 80s for the time National Panasonic, chewed better than my Electronics. And recently drove Technics, 96th year. All four rollers chew the film around the edges. I adjusted the video from the Soviet Elegia of the 87th year of release, at least one pocket began to work normally by half.

[ser56]

Quote: Mordvin 3

They all chewed.

I have Lighthouse 203 - I didn’t notice ... as an amplifier was Vega -109 with speakers - it worked ...

[brat07]

Quote: mordvin xnumx

Quote: your1970

Cassette recorders almost all chewed cassettes, even new ones.

Gee, about cassette mafons I can answer exactly 99%. They all chewed. And the Japanese chewed no worse, or even better than ours. They gave me in the late 80s for the time National Panasonic, chewed better than my Electronics. And recently drove Technics, 96th year. All four rollers chew the film around the edges. I adjusted the video from the Soviet Elegia of the 87th year of release, at least one pocket began to work normally by half.

Sharp and Telefunken did not chew on me, although in those days I used TDK and AGFA cassettes. And yes, we always had problems with the LPM mechanism. If you take cassettes from Tasma or from Svema, then I always chose Svema.
My first tape recorder on cassettes was "Spring - 202".
Very not a bad device.
Not so often chewed tape.
And my first reel-to-reel apparatus was "Mayak - 203".
Moody, but it could be brought to mind.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: brat07

Sharp and Telefunken didn't chew on me,

Everyone chews. It depends not only on the tape recorder, but also on the tapes. Personally, I still use them.

[kalibr]

There were articles entirely from scans ... Do you think there were less tantrums? More!!!

[ser56]

Quote: Alexander Suvorov

There may not have been any bananas, but there were still ham, cheeses and red fish. Miners were provided in the first category.

precisely because of these years the workers were shot in Novocherkassk? The author simply showed how people lived!

[sergo1914]

Quote: ser56

Quote: Alexander Suvorov

There may not have been any bananas, but there were still ham, cheeses and red fish. Miners were provided in the first category.

precisely because of these years the workers were shot in Novocherkassk? The author simply showed how people lived!

Shot for red fish? Man, you’re obviously not all at home. I am not a psychiatrist. Maybe it's worth signing up to a specialist?

[ser56]

Quote: sergo1914

Shot for red fish? Man, you’re obviously not all at home. I am not a psychiatrist. Maybe it's worth signing up to a specialist?

1) shot for demanding a good life!
2) Think about yourself

[sergo1914]

Quote: ser56

Quote: sergo1914

Shot for red fish? Man, you’re obviously not all at home. I am not a psychiatrist. Maybe it's worth signing up to a specialist?

1) shot for demanding a good life!
2) Think about yourself

I think so. I read such comments, and I want to believe that I am a fool. But no. Everything is different.

[ser56]

Quote: sergo1914

and I want to believe that I am a fool. But no.

alas, accept this ...

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: sergo1914

Shot for red fish?

They shot him when, after the Khrushchev monetary reform, the ruble collapsed 2,5 times, and the workers went on strike. I wonder what they’ll do now if there is a default, and the people will also trample on the square?

[your1970]

Quote: Mordvin 3

They shot him when, after the Khrushchev monetary reform, the ruble collapsed 2,5 times, and the workers went on strike.

at first they sank for the 1947 reform, then the 1961 reform ...
In the state Desktop class workers went out to express their will - and theirs?

[helvetic]

Red fish, caviar, and bananas were also sold. For example, on the river. Pyramid (Svalbard). As in the Barentsburg mine of the same archipelago. I know this well, I worked with documents there. And under the Russian Federation, the Pyramid was closed in March 1998, and Burg was almost starved to death.

[victor50]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

Red fish sold in mining villages? Were bananas available for sale? Ham? Hard cheeses? It is unlikely.

Have you ever wondered how such an idea of ​​happiness and paradise differs from the dreams of pigs? I believe the limit of hers is a complete trough! And you?

[AU Ivanov.]

You won’t be full of ideas, they have zero calories. In abundance there is nothing shameful.

[Dali]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

Red fish sold in mining villages? Were bananas available for sale? Ham? Hard cheeses?

That was exactly what happened ... relatives of the miners from near Perm ...

[mmaxx]

I can’t even believe that there can be so many minuses. Now I understand who ate my meat under socialism - 69 kg / person per year. These are the minusers.
We only had meat in the canteens. And for wild money in the market. When they entered the coupons (in the early 80's) everyone breathed a sigh of relief. There was an opportunity to buy their 800 gr. cooked sausages for a month and 400 gr. sandwich butter.
And then everyone wonders why the USSR collapsed so easily.
Just someone ate from the belly and thought that during decay it would be even better to eat. But others didn’t care. Because they are tired of enduring promises. And they saw that somewhere else they were eating when you only had worries, what to eat tonight.
Minus one. Just answer: why didn’t you go to fight for your USSR? In 17-18, a bunch of people went for their Russia, and all the patriots of the USSR put only cons in 2020.
After all, there were people at that time. But who followed them?

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: mmaxx

We only had meat in the canteens. And for wild money in the market. When they entered the coupons (in the early 80's) everyone breathed a sigh of relief. There was an opportunity to buy their 800 gr. cooked sausages for a month and 400 gr. sandwich butter.

Where do you have it?

[mmaxx]

Irkutsk The city is regional. Never been subsidized.
All my childhood I remember the wild queues for soup kits. Those who had pensioners in the family sometimes had them. Then I fed my dogs with such "meat", when in the 90s it became possible to buy normal meat. And somewhere in 76-77-78, everything went to hell. People just gathered for the opening of grocery stores, maybe they will bring something. But again, grandmothers. Who else? The rest were at work.
Nobody worked for us in trade, in the party, aviation, army, etc., etc., etc. There was no access to rations and kits.
I remember the Soviet sausage or some dumplings with horror. This can’t be eaten at all. At least under normal conditions. Only by hunger.
And now - 800 gr. boiled sausage and 400 gr. oil per month per person. Buy yourself and enjoy your health. According to vaunted GOSTs, that sausage contained 8-10% of meat. And the butter has already become a sandwich. Then they explained to everyone that the addition of vegetable oils is very good for health. And there was no other.
And fried on what? Combine and vegetable fat.
I must say that oil in Gorbachev's times appeared on the market. Sandwich.
Yes, stick-trees !!! What are you rubbing me here !! Most planted and harvested potatoes. So she was 3 months a year. Then to buy was good luck. And strew mixed with rot. But 10 cents. With what joy were communists allowed to plant potatoes and start cottages? Yes, so that the people at least somehow fed themselves. Onion,%:;:% No.;:%; *? there should be obscene, stored under the cabinets scattered. Because it is not known when you will buy another time.

[Mordvin 3]

I do not know how it was in Irkutsk in the early 80's, but about this:

Quote: mmaxx

According to vaunted GOSTs, that sausage contained 8-10% of meat.

Nonsense you are shameful.

[mmaxx]

As usual, there are no arguments - we turn to the individual. I would like to personally look into the eyes and ask for a lie. Where were you in the 91st? on the barricades?

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: mmaxx

Where were you in the 91st? on the barricades?

There were barricades in Moscow, and we have Swan Lake by the box.

Quote: mmaxx

Well, you don’t know how it was, so don’t be surprised why the USSR isn’t

Was there a barricade in Irkutsk? GKChP introduced troops into the city? Really didn’t know. But for life in my city I can describe in detail since the beginning of the 80s, I do not suffer from sclerosis.

[mmaxx]

Well, you don’t know how it was, so don’t be surprised why the USSR isn’t

[mmaxx]

Here you have GOST 23670-79. Read and rejoice. I may have written something in numbers, but I still remember how everything worked. And I also remember how they loved Soviet Power. For all her merits in the past, the 70s and 80s, she lost completely. This despite the fact that the average person could not compare with anything.
But I still remember six months of articles in Literaturnaya Gazeta about how cats do not eat sausage. The name of the newspaper should not be misleading. In the USSR, ALL PRESS was party. And without the knowledge of the party, no article would ever come out, let alone a series. Well, maybe one would have come out. But then no. Even the then leadership got fed up with this sausage question.
I am not a cat. He ate what they gave. Since then, I usually eat meat. Well, or the most expensive sausage.
Here's another link for you. Just in case. With what is written personally, I agree. I do not see anything abusive there. https://von-hoffmann.livejournal.com/308316.html. Pay attention to the people in line. These are exactly how it was. No juggling. Although the photos are color and maybe they belong to a later time. Or maybe the photographer had access to the GDR film. For his money, he would not take such a shot. Maybe he was a foreigner.
No need to fool yourself. It was bad, it was good. And now there is bad and good. And in the USA and in Germany, and in Israel, anywhere. Need to work.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: mmaxx

Here you have GOST 23670-79. Read and rejoice. I may have written something in numbers, but I still remember how everything worked.

I studied these GOSTs a long time ago, and compared with modern ones. So disgrace further, the miracle of Irkutsk.

[mmaxx]

Well, so ponastalgiruyte. Remember the unforgettable taste. Sausages. Cry, what it is now, capitalist. Not in accordance with GOST. You can still chew GOST. The taste will remind.
The miracle is apparently Mordovian.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: mmaxx

Remember the unforgettable taste. Sausages.

And I remember him, unlike you.

Quote: mmaxx

Not in accordance with GOST.

This so-called "sausage", cats refuse to eat. Adireverchi, pinocchio.

[Pilat2009]

Quote: mmaxx

After all, there were people at that time. But who followed them?

People wanted to live like in the West. The misfortune of the USSR leadership that they did not allow free trade. Create a company, buy over the hill and sell. Everyone is happy. The same cars could be brought in hundreds of thousands

[Nagaibak]

AS Ivanov: "Was red fish on sale in the mining villages? Were bananas on the free market? Ham? Hard cheeses?"
It will appear that they appeared, but how many can afford them?)))) That is the question.)))

[kalibr]

Quote: Alexander Suvorov

Mr. Pseudo-historian and professional LIAR are typed against you in more than one counterclaim.

Well, the epidemic will end in court and meet. It will be fun. And now you are swaggering. I'll see what you say when you have to pay ...

[Alexander Suvorov]

kalibr (Vyacheslav)
Well, the epidemic will end in court and meet. It will be fun.

This is true and it will be really funny. What reason do you present to the court? Mr. not respected liar, you are still mediocrity and ignorant in addition, since you do not know elementary norms. What accusation are you going to bring me?

I'll see what you say when you have to pay ...

Are you sure that I will have to pay? Or maybe you have to fork out?

[ser56]

Quote: Alexander Suvorov

What accusation are you going to bring me?

commonplace!
Article 128.1 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation

Defamation, i.e. the dissemination of knowingly false information, discrediting the honor and dignity of another person or undermining his reputation

shall be punished with a fine of up to five hundred thousand rubles, or in the amount of the salary or other income of the convicted person for a period of up to six months, or compulsory work for up to one hundred and sixty hours.

Slander contained in a public statement, a publicly displayed work or the media

shall be punished by a fine of up to one million rubles or in the amount of the wage or other income of the convicted person for a period of up to one year, or by compulsory labor for a period of up to two hundred and forty hours.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: ser56

commonplace!
Article 128.1 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation

Defamation, that is, the dissemination of knowingly false information,

You first find the exact statistics on the repair of TVs, where they are "repaired once a month", and then speak.

[ser56]

Quote: Mordvin 3

You first find the exact statistics on the repair of TVs, where they are "repaired once a month", and then speak.

1) I'm not an artist to perform, so filter the bazaar ...
2) I won’t tell you about all the TVs - but after the repair Rubin had a 3-month guarantee - never the TV could stand it And they were tormented until their parents bought a Korean Gold one hundred Then they presented Electronics Ts 432 to my wedding - the same system broke down every 1-2 months, but the power supply only flew, I spat and put together a 12V plug-in - the TV worked with it less I note that I remember well the television station clogged with repair TVs, but after all they brought them there for serious repairs ... And now they simply do not exist

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: ser56

the same system broke once every 1-2 months, but only the power supply flew

My TV Youth never broke down at all. While the kinescope did not sit to such an extent that the ball was not visible, he looked, then he gave it ..

[ser56]

Quote: Mordvin 3

I have a TV Youth

as far as I remember, Youth was b / w, passed his scheme in the standings ...

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: ser56

as far as I remember, Youth was b / w, passed his scheme in the standings ...

I had color.

[mmaxx]

What's this??? Are there any admirers of the reliability of Soviet color TVs in the world ??? Someone lucky! Or was there one TV in life?

[Pilat2009]

Quote: ser56

And now they simply are not

There is a service center. In general, the LCD breaks less often, there are other voltages and the elemental base. Although my Philips 2 years ago broke down after XNUMX years, after repair, this studio has been working successfully to this day

[brat07]

Quote: mordvin xnumx

Quote: ser56

commonplace!
Article 128.1 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation

Defamation, that is, the dissemination of knowingly false information,

You first find the exact statistics on the repair of TVs, where they are "repaired once a month", and then speak.

Repaired.
True "on their own" and more than once.
TV "Horizon", however, it was in Belarus, demagnetized the kinescope three times.
For the fourth time I decided to dispose of it. Something like that.
Then I bought Goldstar.
It still works, but it’s not with me, but with friends in the country.

[ser56]

Quote: brat07

True "on their own" and more than once.

there are printed circuit boards on a getinax, copper was removed when soldering ... I had to throw wires ...

[mmaxx]

And I have a friend. In his youth, he studied at the telemaster. So they were taught where to do it so that the equipment would break faster. to work was.

[brat07]

Quote: mmaxx

And I have a friend. In his youth, he studied at the telemaster. So they were taught where to do it so that the equipment would break faster. to work was.

I didn’t study to be a TV master, but I never did such "things"!

[ser56]

Quote: kalibr

It will be fun

alas, no ... afraid ...

[ser56]

Quote: Alexander Suvorov

Can you bring the facts of modern realities of life in Russia?

let's! we wait! For example, we compare infant mortality and tuberculosis incidence

[ser56]

and, of course, the fighter for the USSR disappeared ...

[Dali]

Quote: ser56

and, of course, the fighter for the USSR disappeared ...

And you are a fighter for what?

[ser56]

Quote: Dali

And you are a fighter for what?

for a normal and well-fed life in Russia

[Malyuta]

Quote: kalibr

You can write anything.

I am very sorry, but you initially misinterpreted the meaning of the document.
As far as I understand, and this is obvious from the document, the Penza Regional Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union points to shortcomings in the work of state structures on the ground, I emphasize once again INDICATES DISADVANTAGES!
And with specific numbers! The second part of the protocol is most likely about measures and organizational results, which the author "modestly" is silent about.
And now let's turn to today's day, which the president and others like us are talking about, about the percentage of interest in the common crap for plebs.
And if we turn to the numbers for medicine today, we’ll be horrified!
I consider it useful from the point of view of comparing the work of the state apparatus in the USSR and now.
Comparison will clearly not be in favor of Putinism !!!

[ser56]

Quote: Malyuta

I emphasize once again INDICATES ON DISADVANTAGES

exactly!

Quote: Malyuta

The second part of the protocol is most likely about measures and organizational conclusions, about which the author "modestly" is silent.

see text, it goes on for years ..

Quote: Malyuta

And if we turn to the numbers for medicine today, we’ll be horrified!

waiting for your details!

[sergo1914]

Quote: Malyuta

Quote: kalibr

You can write anything.

I am very sorry, but you initially misinterpreted the meaning of the document.
As far as I understand, and this is obvious from the document, the Penza Regional Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union points to shortcomings in the work of state structures on the ground, I emphasize once again INDICATES DISADVANTAGES!
And with specific numbers! The second part of the protocol is most likely about measures and organizational results, which the author "modestly" is silent about.
And now let's turn to today's day, which the president and others like us are talking about, about the percentage of interest in the common crap for plebs.
And if we turn to the numbers for medicine today, we’ll be horrified!
I consider it useful from the point of view of comparing the work of the state apparatus in the USSR and now.
Comparison will clearly not be in favor of Putinism !!!

Throwing beads before Shpakovsky - do not respect yourself. He does not perceive sound thoughts. Generally. The CPSU has raped him for decades in the brain. Never mind. There a serious diagnosis is drawn.

[Sling cutter]

Quote: sergo1914

Throwing beads before Shpakovsky - do not respect yourself. He does not perceive sound thoughts. Generally. The CPSU has raped him for decades in the brain. Never mind. There a serious diagnosis is drawn

Greetings, Kamrad! Sorry to break in, but Shpakovsky is something he can snatch such a game that it becomes really scary for him. A couple or three years ago, we were "cut" with him. and you know (sorry for the "you"), there are no compelling arguments, but he gave out what it was, like, and I'm now a teacher at the university, and under the USSR I read, if I remember correctly, scientific communism, something like that, and in fact sooner of all was a member.
And now he has articles ala "nostalgia for the USSR", but he will definitely throw some poop in the direction of Soviet power.
In general, he is still a "doer".

[sergo1914]

Quote: Stroporez

Quote: sergo1914

Throwing beads before Shpakovsky - do not respect yourself. He does not perceive sound thoughts. Generally. The CPSU has raped him for decades in the brain. Never mind. There a serious diagnosis is drawn

Greetings, Kamrad! Sorry to break in, but Shpakovsky is something he can snatch such a game that it becomes really scary for him. A couple or three years ago, we were "cut" with him. and you know (sorry for the "you"), there are no compelling arguments, but he gave out what it was, like, and I'm now a teacher at the university, and under the USSR I read, if I remember correctly, scientific communism, something like that, and in fact sooner of all was a member.
And now he has articles ala "nostalgia for the USSR", but he will definitely throw some poop in the direction of Soviet power.
In general, he is still a "doer".

I agree. Here we have monster led scientific communism. Dad of TV presenter Ekaterina Andreeva. I answered the Juche exam. He was cruelly screwed up for Trotskyism. But the guy is interesting. I was lucky with the teachers. Forgive me, God didn’t do this.

[kalibr]

Your memory, "private airborne forces", is full of holes ....

[kalibr]

Quote: Malyuta

The second part of the protocol is most likely about measures and organizational conclusions, about which the author "modestly" is silent.

There is a link there. No guessing. You can order a copy and see what is really there ...

[Malyuta]

Quote: kalibr

No guessing.

Good afternoon! The point is not completely what documents can be found in the archives, the point is how they can be interpreted.
In this case, the title of the article can be translated into Russian as follows: "The Soviet government refused to provide medical assistance to a huge number of patients."
I remember how articles appeared during "perestroika" with an anti-Soviet interpretation of the exploits of Matrosov, Kosmodemyanskaya, Gastello ..., then "Children of the Arbat", "the gulag archipelago", "short lights", "views", posners "," bloody " Stalin, incompetent commanders, "Stalin's plan for an attack on Germany, the Molotov-Ribentrop Pact, Katyn," Repentance "and vmshenka, there is no sex in the USSR.
Colleague, this is all information and military propaganda.
You yourself gave a link to how this type of war was born.

[kalibr]

Quote: Malyuta

"The Soviet government refused to provide medical care to a huge number of patients."

Wasn’t that so? Reread the document again. And 300 loonies were sleeping on the floor in a mental hospital or because of the lack of beds, that is, places.

[mmaxx]

Newspaper articles are not sources. A source is a document. Moreover, it should be marked twice. Outgoing - Incoming. Then the document is a document and it can be considered, and newspaper tales are a narrative source. No more. Type of someone's impressions. For exploring the spirit of the era is suitable.

[mmaxx]

With all the shortcomings, medicine is better now and this is a fact.

[Krasnodar]

Quote: kalibr

If you’ve been at VO since 2014, then you can remember how many intelligence agents I’ve already visited, as well as a Vlasov, Bandera ... State Department agent. Do not get used to it!

Thank you for the article! In Israel and Germany he was engaged in medical tourism for citizens of the countries of the former USSR. He talked with Russian-speaking doctors who had Soviet experience.
I bring the dialogue from memory.
O.G. (Head of the Department of Oncological Hematology of one of Tel Aviv medical centers, a graduate of the medical faculty of one of the universities of the Ukrainian SSR)
I. In the Union, they say, medicine was at the level of
OG: Who is speaking?
Me: People ...
OG: Listen to them more ... Soviet ideology is a man of the system. Cardiology, cardiac surgery, orthopedics even less ... a person could be returned to work, to the system ... traumatology is not bad ... oncology is an abandoned area. No one needs a broken screw. Psychiatry generally sucks.
Me: Well, in the West?
OG: You show me one Soviet protocol of chemotherapy, which is used or used in the world ... or a visualization method.
Me: And the availability of medical services, attitudes towards people
OG: Oh ... whom are you listening to ... they scored people ... not everything and not always, of course ... a mess, window dress, rudeness ... pensioners were treated medically .. for every symptom a drug .. a bunch side effects, side effects of the drug, etc. As a result, a large sheet with a schedule of drugs, the dosage of which, ultimately, led to death.

[Liam]

Quote: Krasnodar

pensioners were treated medically .. for every symptom a drug .. a bunch of side effects, another side effect of a side effect, etc. As a result, a large sheet with a schedule of drugs, the dosage of which, ultimately, led to death.

Not only pensioners. My mother died at 36 because of these sheets. For 4 years, they killed her kidneys, although she was treated completely from another. The house looked like a branch of a pharmacy

[Krasnodar]

Quote: Liam

Not only pensioners. My mother died at 36 because of these sheets. For 4 years, they killed her kidneys, although she was treated completely from another. The house looked like a branch of a pharmacy

Bright memory!
So an elementary disregard - instead of thinking and analyzing the situation, drawing up an individual treatment plan, they acted "according to the instructions."

[Liam]

Surgery is military / field. Do not splurge to heal, but cut and sew. The seams after surgery are a separate issue. The bodies of patients have been mutilated for life, especially women. Any appendicitis is a terrible scar for a dozen cm.
Oncology (of any stage) is almost a death sentence.
All these supposedly ubiquitous outpatient clinics or a ragged table and a doctor with a stethoscope. Well, and a metal cabinet with a pair of disposable syringes at the age of 15 A.P. Chekhov. Any more or less serious operation-hikes to pull through / through friends / for money in the capital RCH. Terrifying mortality due to postoperative infections and no hygiene in hospitals. Fast, especially in rural areas-killed UAZ / RAFiki without shock absorbers bouncing along all bumps with the patient. All equipment-tarpaulin stretchers)

[Krasnodar]

I remember. The hospital in the Ryzhkanovka area (right behind the Chekansky park near the lake) was not bad. Grandfather pulled out with a heart attack. Then a sanatorium somewhere in Lazarevskaya — we brought him toilet paper, and a box of chocolates Bucuria and White Stork for the head doctor of the medical facility. Well, his second hospitalization in a hospital near the planetarium (fractures, accidents) ended in death from PNEUMONIA. Chamber for four at 8 meters. Stink and draft and toilet in the hallway.

[Liam]

It was hospital number 3 if I am not mistaken.
I recall the Soviet experience with hospitals with a shudder)
Especially syringes with some awful huge needles. And the dental office, as they were going to the Gestapo for questioning)

[Krasnodar]

Oh, I remember from childhood ...

[Dali]

Quote: Liam

Not only pensioners. My mother died at 36 because of these sheets. For 4 years, they killed her kidneys, although she was treated completely from another. The house looked like a branch of a pharmacy

And my wife’s mom’s situation was exactly the opposite ... right now she was being treated for some reason, and her kidneys ended completely, and then she herself.
But it was during the Soviet era that my grandfather, and my mother (was operated on more than once), was saved ...

Yes, and I saw the hospitals and clinics live ... there was no such tin as you describe ... it is clear that the nomenclature desks were getting better, but I did not see such tin as you describe !!!

So what do you think, will I believe you or myself and my family ?!

[Krasnodar]

It was, how else. Even in the capitals of the republics, I am generally silent about small cities.

[helvetic]

Medicine was also unevenly developed as elsewhere (for example, quite advanced studies of hemophilia in Voenmed were conducted). But, of course, the most popular types of treatment were more accessible than now, when getting into a free emergency room is like hell. And this is in St. Petersburg.

[Krasnodar]

I do not remember the emergency room at the Union. Now they fall into norms (in Krasnodar), also not without overlaps, but not hell - or just a small city, compared to St. Petersburg

[Dali]

Quote: Krasnodar

I do not remember the emergency room at the Union.

And I just really remember, and everything was fine there.

[Krasnodar]

Maybe I don’t remember.

[Reptiloid]

Yes, everything is fine in the injury. SPB, Primorsky district

Quote: helvetic

Medicine was also unevenly developed as elsewhere (for example, quite advanced studies of hemophilia in Voenmed were conducted). But, of course, the most popular types of treatment were more accessible than now, when getting into a free emergency room is like hell. And this is in St. Petersburg.

[BAI]

In Israel and Germany he was engaged in medical tourism for citizens of the countries of the former USSR. He talked with Russian-speaking doctors who had Soviet experience.
I bring the dialogue from memory.

I was on medical tourism in Israel.
1. They recognized that the oncological operation in 62 MOBs was excellent.
2. For rehabilitation - did NOTHING. No positive progress. Waste of money.
3. We have PSA accuracy of up to thousandths, in Israel - up to tenths.
4. I do not consider a graduate of the Baku Medical Academy (has anyone heard of such a thing?) To be the luminary of medicine, although her services are actively being imposed. I myself was at a reception with other professors ($ 800-1500 per appointment), this simple sign caught my eye.

[Krasnodar]

Why were you driving? What is rehabilitation after prostatectomy? Or removing adenoma is even more nonsense ... What kind of doctor? $ 1500 only two professors cost, none of them is related to oncology urology
PSA indicators - in 80% of cases, analyzes made in the Russian Federation are similar to Israeli or German

[mmaxx]

Yes. And now we have nothing to do with rehabilitation at all. For no part. Individual people move it, but no more.

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: Donald72

hardened banderavets. It is so customary here.

You are not satisfied that Bandera is called Bandera, what are you doing on the Russian site? Leave him!

[Buxlov]

Quote: Mavrikiy

Quote: Donald72

hardened banderavets. It is so customary here.

You are not satisfied that Bandera is called Bandera, what are you doing on the Russian site? Leave him!

Their mission is this, soon by May 9 they will be here, a whole division spitting the venom of envy and hatred ..

Quote: AS Ivanov.

And of the manufactured goods, it was very sparse for us to buy something more decent again in St. Petersburg or Moscow, and if you are lucky, you can buy something there. Such was your soviet paradise.

But now the sausages are full and the fat of the Polish rubber ..?
Everything was on the markets and cooperatives, only pay money ..
So it’s inappropriate here .. Most of all the whine from the "former allies" lived badly for them .. That was the problem, they tried to fill them up with everyone, taking away from those who produced it all ..
I remember everything !

[Vladimir61]

Quote: Buxlov

Their mission is this, soon by May 9 they will be here, a whole division spitting the venom of envy and hatred ..

Let there not be, in this article, this information division. Those 30-35 stationary "parishioners of negative Russia witnesses" who have the paper shoulder straps of the "generals of the VO" and who pop out like devils from the closet of the "one-day" from the neighboring country 404, here, as you can see, do not want to appear - they will trample! They hang out in a circle of articles coming from the pen of the same "anti-Russian strawberry" specialists, since they cannot make money on anything else.

[kalibr]

Quote: Buxlov

Everything was on the markets and cooperatives, only pay money ..

So it is now also ...

[Aviator_]

Mr. Shpakovsky cannot get away from his beloved business - a draft on a fan, and all about the USSR. It is strange that Govorukhin, probably, did not want to share his fee in his films about the terrible USSR.

[Aviator_]

you will be

hardened

72 in your nickname is the year of birth? Something is not very good with literacy. Or is it on purpose?

[210ox]

Yes, not everything was perfect under the USSR. But what’s going on in medicine now is generally tough. You took it in 1962. And why not in 1950, for example?. And what happened in 1978? For the sake of statistics, where did the Soviet medicine?

[kalibr]

A bad question ... Because it’s impossible to stuff ALL the years of interest to you in one article. In addition, reports like this are not available for all years. That is, similar reports need to be searched by crawling through documents. And this is troublesome. And then he took the folder - it fell into her own hands. But I agree that the dynamics, comparing the results is always interesting. Well then, let's try to do it. When it's over. Now the archive is closed.

[mp-133]

You better not compare with the years of the USSR, with the nineties and with two thousand! That's probably where we overtook everyone!

[kalibr]

Quote: mp-133

with the nineties and with the two thousandth! That's probably where we overtook everyone!

Can't be compared! Then there was a society of equality and brotherhood, the people and the party were one, man was a friend, comrade and brother, and women were all sisters. And now we have a "regime", capitalism, man is a wolf to man. Round is not compared with fresh!

[210ox]

But I know this dynamics even without documents. Because I saw it myself. Medicine went ahead, hospitals and polyclinics were built. I judge it from Smolensk. Or was it wrong in Penza? Now what? And this is not a bad question, but a good one. the place.

[Buxlov]

Quote: 210ox

And I even know this dynamics without documents. Because I saw it myself. Medicine went forward, hospitals and polyclinics were built.

Yes, in every small town, there was a paramedic center and doctors went out and medical helicopters were on duty ... And in the west, just for the word "Hello doctor, already $ 100 was charged ..

[chenia]

Quote: kalibr

This is a bad question ... Because it’s impossible to stuff ALL the years of interest to you in one article

And then you pull out the most problematic years, and then draw thoughtful conclusions. I remember that the years are not the best. But after the mid-60s there was a rapid breakthrough in construction and housing, and hospitals and kindergartens. And the factories opened dozens. if not hundreds. In addition, the problems were seen, not hidden, understood, made the appropriate conclusions and solved.

That is, that you and the foul-faced are understandable. The principles are not yours (although there is, the end justifies the means, always with the winner or in a timely manner to betray, to anticipate). By all means they dragged themselves humiliating to climb higher, to prove something to themselves and others, but that something did not grow together. And now take revenge on those to whom you have clung to you by hook or by crook. But apparently they saw you through to the feeder, then they let them in, but they did not award them with a high rank (you can clearly assess the moral level). That's the rattle of the soul.
So what's better about knights. A moral assessment of one time or another is NOT YOURS.

[Aviator_]

they let it go to the feeder, but they did not award a high rank

And there the competition was for high ranks.

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: kalibr

A bad question ... Because it’s impossible to stuff ALL the years of interest to you in one article.

No, the question is just a very good one, to a point. It’s just that you use the most sophisticated, and therefore the most effective, method of all slanderers - to suppress information that is not favorable to you.

[kalibr]

What is the best year for you, and as soon as the virus ends, I'll see. The requests of readers IN - a holy cause!

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: kalibr

What is the best year for you, and as soon as the virus ends, I'll see. The requests of readers IN - a holy cause!

Publish the decision and measures of the regional committee on the issues raised by it.

[your1970]

Quote: Alexander Green

Quote: kalibr

What is the best year for you, and as soon as the virus ends, I'll see. The requests of readers IN - a holy cause!

Publish the decision and measures of the regional committee on the issues raised by it.

"Punish" or do you think that the hospitals that have been building for 8 years were discussed for the first time or what ????!
"The construction of N. Lomovskaya, Serdobskaya, Kamenskaya hospitals, which are being built according to eight years or more."

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: your1970

"..you think that the hospitals that have been building for 8 years - were they discussed for the first time ????!. The construction of N. Lomovskaya, Serdobsk, Kamenskaya hospitals, which are being built for eight or more years, has been inadmissibly delayed."

Therefore, it is interesting to know why? Maybe they are more than weighty. Under Khrushchev, with his adventurism, there were a lot of voluntary decisions. Plans could simply be overestimated, but then it was not yet possible for the people to walk around.

[kalibr]

Quote: Alexander Green

Publish the decision and measures of the regional committee on the issues raised by it.

And what will it give? The solution is words. Their implementation could well stretch for YEARS! After all, before that there were words-decisions about the construction of hospitals, and then they were built for 8 years. Not words need to be watched, but what exactly changed in 1965,7,9. compared to the 63rd. Here, people wanted to know in 72 years. In my opinion this is much more interesting. Than to read the next - to correct, deepen, lift and repair. Available explained?

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: kalibr

And what will it give? The solution is words.

And what, is it not interesting why it dragged on a long-term construction? Objective reasons or not.

[kalibr]

Interesting, of course. But there is not a word about this in the specified document. Trying to search through reports from construction organizations? It is possible, but difficult. And what will it do? Something is always objective, something is subjective. Calculate%? Troubled and will not pay off with the time and money spent. We know the result - 91 years old. Therefore, it makes sense to look at the data for the 75th year - the peak of the "stagnation" well-being or the 72nd - depending on what year the similar document will be.

[Dali]

Quote: kalibr

Troublesome and will not pay off the time and money spent. The result - 91 years is known to us.

Those. you do not want to spend money ... But what about the accusation of this majority in one of your comments?
You are by no means as greedy and stupid as you said about the majority?

[kalibr]

You see, this can be a one-time promotion for them. This can even be interesting ... Here you can spend money. For me this is a permanent job. And permanent work cannot go at a loss! And then ... Why didn't you read to the end? The result - 91 I know. The purpose of your colleagues' action is different - to prove my "lies". Explained easily?

[Pravodel]

The main question: what and what is this article about ?! If about the shortcomings that existed in the USSR, then yes, there were shortcomings, there is nothing to hide them, but if about the fact that the USSR was a scoop that did not care about people, which did not give a damn about people, then this is an absolute lie.
That's right, there were no drug addicts in the USSR, but they weren’t not because they really weren’t, but because the addiction didn’t have the scale that it reached under the liberals ... and nobody fought with it: not with what was the fight. In fact, drug addicts existed, there were dens of drug addicts, there were used ampoules, devices for preparing mixtures in parks in certain places. I testify, because I saw it myself. But this was not the general problem that it became after the collapse of the USSR.
In the USSR, in addition to kindergartens, there were also nurseries, where a working mother gave her child when she went to work. By the way, the day nursery began to disappear when labeled - Gorbachev, who allowed mothers to stay at home until the 3-year-old children. And so, after 2 months, my mother went to work, and the children surrendered to a nursery. There were really not enough places in the nursery, kindergartens, as well as in schools. But they were not enough, not because nurseries, kindergartens, schools were not built, but because the birth rate was such that the construction did not keep up with the birth rate, so we really had to wait for a place in the nursery and kindergartens. In schools everywhere there were 2, and in some places, and 3 shifts. For example, in the school where I worked, there were 5 senior classes from the 5th to the 8th and each class had 46-48 students. And this is not in the very last city of the union. Now imagine what could be on the periphery ...
But all this does not mean that the USSR was bad and terrible, but only means that there was not enough money for construction with the construction technology that existed at that time. They were also lacking because the USSR was forced to fight the hegemon, maintain its own defense capability, constantly being under the pressure of external pressure, and the possibility of attack. For example, after the war, there was not enough electric energy, so when creating and testing an atomic bomb, disconnect cities and entire regions from electricity. But this again does not mean that the USSR was terrible and that the USSR did not give a damn about citizens, but only means that the creation of an atomic bomb is a condition for the survival of the state and its citizens ... would you write articles in the Higher Education if the USSR had not created atomic bomb, you can only guess.
This is what the articles in which the so-called completely truthful material based on the archives are presented lead to thoughts. The truth, of course, should be. But the truth should be historical, and not plucked out of the archive in the form of an archival reference. I think that if you delve into the archives, you can find a certificate on the amount of feces emitted by sewage systems of domestic sewage in certain cities, but this does not mean at all that in one city citizens "shit" more than in another city. So it is with absolutely truthful information from the historical archives ... No need to shit into the past, but you need to honestly and truthfully study it.

Here, in fact, are some considerations for using the open archives of Russia and the Union.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: kalibr

You can write anything. Here is an official document reflecting the realities of that life.

I thought that the author decided to compare the real situation in medicine in the USSR of the times of Khrushchev (17 years after the end of the Second World War) with the current 28-year-old capitalist “creation” ... But no. Another portion of dirt from Putin's training manual “How galoshes were made in the USSR and slaughtered old dairy cows for meat”.
You know what, the author I disrespect personally. Without your libel we have enough joy of "zeroing" and "self-isolation." I just won’t begin to list and compare what was restored, rebuilt, created for the first time in the world in 17 post-war years and what was successfully “poher” in twenty-eight. No need to throw beads. Here is just one quote from you:

An acute shortage is felt in the cities in the nursery. Instead of 5000 places there are 2210. Currently, there are 7 thousand children who need to be identified in a nursery. Great need for child care facilities is available at the watchmaking, CAM, compressor, Penzmash, Penzkhimmash and other workers' factories.

Indeed, there was a huge shortage of places in kindergartens and nurseries. Moreover, the schools had several classes: 5A, 5B, 5B, 5G, etc. In my school there were just that many. Do you know why? But for this:

Only today, despite the low birth rate, places in kindergartens are not enough:

As follows from the document, on November 1 in the Russian Federation 205,3 thousand children were not provided with a place in a preschool, which is almost 30 thousand less than on October 1.

By the way, in the early 60s only in Moscow there were much more than 200 children ...
And as for the factories:

... sentinel, CAM, compressor, Penzmash, Penzkhimmash and others.

It is unlikely that you today will find them in nature in general, as well as the workers of these plants with all the attached attributes and needs ...
Any document can be used in two ways. You did it.

[kalibr]

Quote: ROSS 42

It is unlikely that you will find them today in nature at all

I will ignore all your personal attacks. But here it is ... ALL THE TIME I WRITE HERE: BEFORE YOU WRITE - DO NOT POP THE INTERNET. And see if I am right or not. And do not guess !!! Guessing gypsies! And now a little personal experience. My daughter works as a sales manager in an enterprise that sews luxury clothing. With the onset of the epidemic, of course, they sew masks. And she is phoning local businesses now in search of orders. And that’s amazing. Plants in Penza turned out to be full! In addition to the large ones that you called, dozens, if not hundreds of medium and small ones, appeared. For example, she found some plant ... working for space. There are 15 (!) People in total, 5 managers and 10 workers and everything is automated. There is a 3D printer and ... There was one NIIEMP, it became 3 ... and everyone works, everyone orders masks and a lot. Recently I needed to treat a tooth. He went into the street opposite the clinic, in the depths of the housing estate. And there, in rows, are the working buildings! In the pines! But you can’t say that it’s a plant. And everyone works. And there are trucks, including foreign ones. So not everything is as bad as some people think.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: kalibr

I will ignore all your personal attacks.

You are not the authority that I listened to your calculations. There are official documents, statistics, data from the RIA ... And you "snatched" the information from the anonymous letters and shook them here before us, as if we did not live in the 60s and did not see it with our own eyes.
There were many difficulties, but they were fought with, and, MOST IMPORTANT, they did not arise due to the theft of budget funds.

[kalibr]

Quote: ROSS 42

And you “pulled” the information from the anonymous letters and shook it here before us, as if we had not lived in the 60s and had not seen it with our own eyes.

Since when did the "Minutes of the meeting of the Bureau of the OK CPSU from 14.01 to 16.03.1963. F. 5893. Inventory. 1. Unit. Xr. 12. Penza industrial regional committee of the CPSU. Special sector" became "anonymous"? And you lived, yes, and I lived, but all this was not reported to us, ordinary "scoops".

Quote: ROSS 42

There were many difficulties, but they were fought with, and, MOST IMPORTANT, they did not arise due to the theft of budget funds.

There are documents about how they were stolen. It's just silly to embed them in this article. But everything will be with time ...

[Alexander Suvorov]

kalibr (Vyacheslav)
There are documents about how they were stolen. It's just silly to embed them in this article. But everything will be with time ...

In the USSR, there were at least documents regarding theft and even oddly enough the OBHSS worked. Another thing is that with the death of Stalin, Judas Khrushchev ruled out the purge of the highest echelons of power as such. From here it went and went.
BUT, do you want to bring the documents about the embezzlement of the Russian budget? Soviet party nomenclature to modern plunderers as to Beijing on foot. But, you are not on this part, touching a modern ilytku is not enough for you, it’s not for you to shit the USSR, for this you can get in the snout, but you can even worse. How much safer to cluck about the shortcomings in the USSR, isn't it Mr. "Whistleblower"?
Yes, and those who were at the helm of the late USSR, they also put a hand to its collapse in order to be able to legalize the loot.
And weathercocks like you are always ready to cull "glory to the KPSS", and then "glory to Putin", you are not used to changing shoes, the main thing is to keep your nose in the wind, it is a weathervane in Africa too.

[kalibr]

Quote: Alexander Suvorov

But, you are not on this part, touch the modern gut

I work with documents. Do you have them about the elite? Write an article about this with links to documents and VO will always publish it.

[mmaxx]

Nichese anonymous.

[210ox]

For ten workers, one leader is enough ... And not five.

[Fat]

Quote: 210ox

For ten workers, one leader is enough ... And not five.

Are you Dmitry from the moon? Count:
Director
accountant (he is a personnel officer),
technologist (he is also a designer and a specialist in rigging),
zavskladom (he is also a supplier and specialist in sales),
site master (if one shift).
Total 5, This is the minimum. These are the "seven with a spoon." here are those with a bipod from one to a hundred.
Shabashnik enterprise and team - different things

[210ox]

Yes, this is understandable. Sharazhka family. Well, an example was given by Shpakovsky ... And so all over the country.

[BAI]

Somewhere 1989-90. A delegation of the Krasnozavodsk factory traveled to Krasnozavodsk factory, where hunting cartridges are made, to strengthen international cooperation and study best foreign practices, whether to Cyprus or Crete.
Comparison.
Krasnozavodsk - several workshops (the size of a plane can be assembled) 200-300 people workers (this is only for cartridges - by-products). 300 rounds per month.
Cyprus - 2 rooms, 10 people, 1 machine, which does everything from assembly to packing cartridges (NONE OF AN ENGINEER. As the owner of the company said, it’s expensive to maintain it). 250 rounds per month. So consider the necessary managers.

[Fat]

Quote: BAI

Somewhere 1989-90. A delegation of the Krasnozavodsk factory traveled to Krasnozavodsk factory, where hunting cartridges are made, to strengthen international cooperation and study best foreign practices, whether to Cyprus or Crete.
Comparison.
Krasnozavodsk - several workshops (the size of a plane can be assembled) 200-300 people workers (this is only for cartridges - by-products). 300 rounds per month.
Cyprus - 2 rooms, 10 people, 1 machine, which does everything from assembly to packing cartridges (NONE OF AN ENGINEER. As the owner of the company said, it’s expensive to maintain it). 250 rounds per month. So consider the necessary managers.

Your engineer is expensive, and easier and cheaper to contract with the manufacturer of the machine, and in many other respects the same. Do we have many such services for sale?
Probably only bookkeeping ... one specialist leads several enterprises.

[begemot20091]

Well, why take a piece out. and that this plant does not produce defense products? cartridges are a byproduct. take the Shostkinsky powder - Peter-1 built. and you are patrons ... Tell me more about the Minotaur in Crete. how do you like to rake shit, then lick and spit.

[kalibr]

Quote: BAI

t and count the necessary managers.

And the level of quality of the economy! Not surprisingly, everything fell apart!

[mmaxx]

Here is just another organization of TOTAL production. Regular suppliers of quality components. Constantly deductible percentage for servicing the entire technology. In other words, the plant is delivered as a turnkey solution. He does only what he can.
We have not reached this point. We have military approaches in industry. They should do everything themselves.

[210ox]

Author. Where is the compressor, watch and engineering? By the way?

[kalibr]

Quote: 210ox

Where is the compressor, watch and engineering?

You have not tried to contact the Internet. I tried and here: Penzkompressormash - opening hours, reviews and contacts
Yandex.Maps ›Penza Compressor Plant now
Penzkompressormash in the Oktyabrsky district with rating, reviews and photos. Addresses, telephones, opening hours, location map.

[210ox]

You did not understand. Do they work at all? And not about some kind of legal address.

[kalibr]

Work! And why do you need Internet addresses and phone numbers with ratings and product reviews? And driving directions ... Beyond that, such questions for me today!

[Sergey S.]

Quote: kalibr

And there, in rows, are the working buildings! In the pines! But you can’t say that it’s a plant. And everyone works. And there are trucks, including foreign ones. So not everything is as bad as some people think.

You wrote a whole detective story ...
In the pines are working buildings! - It looks like this is not a factory. and the office ...
Moreover, the plant does not resemble ...
The wagons are foreign ... and something is being taken out of the pines ...
Or even worse - something is being brought into Penza ...
And some believe that not everything is so bad ...

And now without fussing.
Free Russia has lost precision engineering.
And this is not the case in the pines ...
And, imitating the City of London, replaced Great Industry with offices like Horns and Hooves.
To put it mildly, the workers and engineers were retrained ... So one of the welders, who cooked a flower garden and even copper, at the retirement age in the 2000s was pushed by plumbing realities.
Separated managers ...

[kalibr]

Quote: Sergey S.

import something into Penza ...

I looked - loaded from us!

[knn54]

Only nine years have passed since the death of Stalin ...

[Krasnodar]

Quote: knn54

Only nine years have passed since the death of Stalin ...

Stalin, Stalin ... an outstanding personality, but June-November of the 41st is also Stalin. Swam due to the mass heroism of the Soviet people. Which does not deny its clear, truly unparalleled in the world, the evacuation and launch of industry beyond the Urals. But still.

[zulusuluz]

Can you write such "laudatory odes" now? I doubt it, because the manager's effectiveness will decline and he may suffer. So now everything is just fine!

[Olgovich]

Quote: kalibr

Here is an official document reflecting the realities of that life. In the text all data is given on it. I did not invent it.

nothing he can object to the DOCUMENT. And on the topic, from him -NO WORDS

Therefore, the course comes from the ill-mannered- disgusting rudeness.

and this document was not published in Pravda - only the first, laudatory part was published there, but about lousy patients. sleeping in hundreds on the floor - not a word ...

in the USSR there were, and quite a few, amazing doctors, but you could not choose them and go to them yourself.

In the early 1980s for a child I needed urgently to find a cure, we traveled to all the pharmacies of the city and the surrounding area, but no, even cry! They raised all contacts and for money they took me to people "in the subject", they sent me to the Lechsanupra pharmacy warehouse and there for very good bribe money I bought everything and delivered it to the excellent resuscitation doctors and it all ended happily.

during blood donation (donation) hepatitis was introduced to me and when my children needed blood already, I couldn’t donate it ...

I, by the way, had to be in closed hospitals and clinics Lechsanupra USSR for white people, of course, it was heaven and earth compared to ordinary institutions ...

and don’t forget, yes, that today a person lives in Russia much longer. than in the USSR.

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: Olgovich

and we will not forget, yes, that today people in Russia live much longer. than in the USSR.

Today, those who grew up during the Soviet era and ate real foods live longer, this is not the merit of today's life. Those who are growing today will not live so much today, not a single conscript in the army can be found 100% healthy today.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Alexander Green

Today, those who grew up during the Soviet era and ate real foods live longer, this is not the merit of today's life.

What are you carrying?

at your idols whole generations have grown on "real" foods and died at a much younger age. than today.

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: Olgovich

under your idols, entire generations grew up on "real" products and died at a much younger age. than today.

Are you not in cemeteries? Look, new burial places, who are there - mostly young

[Olgovich]

Quote: Alexander Green

Are you not in cemeteries? Look, new burial places, who are there - mostly young

Today people live LONGER than with you. This is the statistics.

And it's not your right through

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: Olgovich

And it's not your right through

All statistics in the cemetery ...

[helvetic]

On the other hand, the population decline is a completely obvious reality of the modern Russian Federation, which in no way can be explained only by the global demographic transition. Apparently, "demographic optimism" in the USSR was provided by something more serious than a varied diet.

[Olgovich]

Quote: helvetic

But the population decline - quite obvious reality modern Russia, which can not be explained only by the global demographic transition.

this reality came from the demographic catastrophe of the 1930s, from the first place in the world in abortion, from the first places in the world in alcoholism and smoking.

By 1991, the people had come old and small.

Quote: helvetic

"demographic optimism" in the USSR

People became extinct since 1964 Mr. is it with you ... optimism?

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: Olgovich

The people have died out since 1964, is it with you ... optimism?

Are you okay? In 1964, the USSR was 220 млн. residents, in 1990 already - 285 million people.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Alexander Green

Are you okay? In 1964, there were 220 million inhabitants in the USSR, in 1990 already - 285 million people.

With you, definitely not in order: with 1964 years extinction in the USSR went-DEPOPULATION is called

If only one child was born in the family, then this is an increase only for the morons. For it means EXTINCTION. families

Got it, no?

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: Olgovich

If only one child was born in the family, then this is an increase only for the morons. For it means EXTINCTION. families

And 65 million. Where did they come from?

[Olgovich]

Quote: Alexander Green

And 65 million. Where did they come from?

is there something literacy for the ignorant and hard-to-understand?

Be educated yourself! there is a bunch of literature on this subject.

in 1964, the total fertility rate ceased to provide a simple substitution of generations net population of Russiareproduction ratio dropped below unity.

The country entered a period of hidden depopulation

"Demoscope"

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: Olgovich

is there something literacy for the ignorant and hard-to-understand?

Quote: fuxila

The Russian village, which always provided the main growth, began to empty.

Guys, Don't put a shadow on the wattle fence. Really all 65 million from the Caucasus. and Central Asia, look at their numbers, where there are 65 million.
And the village was devastated by urbanization, the village moved to the city.
PS You better pay how today Russia and other former republics die out.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Alexander Green

Guys, Don't put a shadow on the wattle fence. Really all 65 million from the Caucasus. and Central Asia, look at their numbers, where there are 65 million.

Russian Cross, you know?

Is it because of ..... half a year formed?

YOU led to him decades- from the demographic catastrophe of the 30s: NOT ONE generation after birth 1910 -DO NOT REPEAT YOURSELF!

200 million abortions — in more than the whole world combined at one time.
First places in the world in alcoholism, smoking, suicide

Quote: Alexander Green

PS You better pay how today Russia and other former republics die out.

"thank you" to you, the destroyers of the country since 1917.

urbanization? Is this an alternative to the village? In Russia, that there was no land. how is it in the West?

Without you, the city would live, and Siberia would be populated.

After you, as mom passed, the desert and extinction ...

[Alexander Greene]

Stop whistling and clicking. 65 million increase over 25 years. Better calculate how many now died out without a war ..

[Olgovich]

Quote: Alexander Green

Stop whistling and clicking.

stop being an ignoramus and LEARNING.

a disgrace ....

Quote: Alexander Green

65 million increase over 25 years

and- EXTINCTIONhidden since 1964 and opened since 1992.

And you led him 1930h

Quote: Alexander Green

Better calculate how many now died out without a war ..

poke your wife.

When YOU country suffered the MOST terrible loss in the population and territory in its entire history of more than a thousand years.

These are just FACTS.

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: Olgovich

It's just FACTS

These are not just facts, this is your distortion. This is the method of all slanderers, you think. readers do not understand that the scale of feudal wars is incorrect to compare with
the scale of the world imperialist wars. Although this is for you a light bulb, you just need to crow, and there even though the sun does not rise ..

[Olgovich]

Quote: Alexander Green

These are not just facts, this is your distortion.

these are FACTS. which you are not able to crank out, except to try to bite.

But no!

Chop the TRUE on your forehead: When YOU country suffered the MOST terrible loss in the population and territory in its entire history of more than a thousand years.

_ Hunger, abortion, alcoholism, war, camps, etc., which killed the Russians, there wasn’t such a thing before you.

Refute, liar!

[Alexander Greene]

[quote = Olgovich] _ starvation, abortion, alcoholism, war, camps, etc., which killed the Russians, this was not even before you. [/ quote [quote = Olgovich] Refute, liar! [/ quote]
You can develop the fantasies of your sick imagination, they are limitless, especially in the spring ...

[Olgovich]

Quote: Alexander Green

You can develop the fantasies of your sick imagination, they are limitless, especially in the spring.

Yes you just not.... can ! You- insolvent !

what is your soul, except Marsism, lies, empty talk without figures and facts and ignorance?

EMPTINESS!

disgrace ...

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: Olgovich

disgrace ...

Well, what can I say about this? Deaf, let him hear. And you do not, you do not care what the pillar to explain.

[fuxila]

Quote: Alexander Green

And 65 million. Where did they come from?

The nation does not die out at once, at first there is a process of so-called aging, when the number of old people increases in percentage terms compared to young people. This is exactly what happened to the Russians. But at the same time there was an explosive population growth in the Caucasus and Central Asia, where huge funds were invested from the donor republic of the RSFSR, while the Russian village, which always provided the main growth, began to empty.

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: fuxila

The Russian village, which always provided the main growth, began to empty.

The Russian village is emptying due to the fact that there was no life under the shit. Collective farms were dissolved, schools and hospitals were closed.

[ser56]

Quote: Alexander Green

Collective farms were dissolved, schools and hospitals were closed.

Are you talking about not promising villages in the 1970s?

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: ser56

Are you talking about not promising villages in the 1970s?

No, it's me about your Medvedev. It was his reform, in the city where I spent the childhood (35 thousand inhabitants) there were 3 hospitals and 5 clinics. Now they have left 1 hospital and 1 polyclinic ..

[ser56]

Quote: Alexander Green

about your Medvedev.

alas or cheers, I'm not the president of the Russian Federation

Quote: Alexander Green

Now they have left 1 hospital and 1 polyclinic ..

I don’t know the details, but if only the bosses were cut (6 sets), it’s not so bad ...

[Deniska999]

And who said that now she is perfectly truthful?)

[AU Ivanov.]

Vodka should be less involved or substances. And not so many young people.

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

Vodka should be less involved or substances. And not so many young people.

And you pay attention to the wrappers of products, which E-shki feed you, which poisons are not there.

[AU Ivanov.]

As if preservatives were not used in the Soviet Union? But nitrates in vegetables, and the uncontrolled use of pesticides, have not heard? How was cotton watered in Central Asia that Uzbeks died of oncology? The naturalness of Soviet products is the lack of surrogation technologies, not only here, but all over the world. We would have come to this, even if the Union had not broken up.

[helvetic]

That's when the Uzbeks (for the most part, however, Karakalpaks) really began to die in mass from oncology, so when the island of Renaissance ceased to be an island and the Aral was dry. And now, in independent Uzbekistan (where, by the way, some rudiments of Soviet medicine have survived), they will definitely be cured ....

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

As if preservatives were not used in the Soviet Union? But nitrates in vegetables, and the uncontrolled use of pesticides, have not heard?

We had natural canned foods (salt, vinegar), added to canned foods for long periods of storage, no one added them to milk and sour cream, no one soaked herring in formalin. And the rates of soda in our country were two orders of magnitude lower than abroad.

[AU Ivanov.]

Benzoic acid and urotropin were used as preservatives, antibiotics were added to the meat for a while to increase the shelf life and transportation. Nitrates were poured, especially here, in the Non-Chernozem Region on the principle of how much they sent, and used so much, that is, from the bulldozer. I flew at aerial chemical works, there the fields were sprinkled with real poison.

[your1970]

Quote: AU Ivanov.

according to the principle how much they sent, they used so much, that is, from the bulldozer. I flew at aerial chemical works, there the fields were sprinkled with real poison.

we had to empty the warehouse for a new batch of nitrate (1980), they took it and moved it to a ravine ... 6000 tons of nitrate .... next to the river ....

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: your1970

we had to empty the warehouse for a new batch of nitrate (1980), they took it and moved it to a ravine ... 6000 tons of nitrate .... next to the river ....

Under Stalin, it would have been "10 years without the right of correspondence," but your brothers today would have raised a howl that they were repressed for nothing ..

[your1970]

Quote: Alexander Green

Under Stalin, it would have been "10 years without the right of correspondence"

Read "Joint meeting of the People's Commissariat of Communications and the Prosecutor's Office", 1934 ..... with wild surprise you learn that the volumes of money thefts from postmen were such that Vasilyeva was playing in the sandbox, and Zakharchenko nervously smoked on the sidelines ...

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: your1970

Vasilyeva plays in the sandbox, and Zakharchenko nervously smokes aside ......

And you add and compare the other Russian thieves to them, and for that they’ll get nothing. You have no wild surprise for this ?. And in the 30s, many paid for these deeds, now you record them all in innocent repressed ..

[your1970]

Quote: Alexander Green

Quote: your1970

Vasilyeva plays in the sandbox, and Zakharchenko nervously smokes aside ......

And you add and compare the other Russian thieves to them, and for that they’ll get nothing. You have no wild surprise for this ?. And in the 30s, many paid for these deeds, now you record them all in innocent repressed ..

-Well, and then it’s quite easy for us to evade responsibility
"In Voronezh, a certain Belokopytov, who stole a bag with 39.500 rubles, worked without any verification. The head of the insurance department, Andreev, wrote the invoice, but this invoice was destroyed by Belokopytov. We learned about this only when we began to ask the bank, which said that the bag was his, that the money Please give it back ... After that, we began to look for it and learned that Belokopytov bought a house in Voronezh with this bag, which he received from the Narkomfin, began to furnish it and according to current traditions plant greenery around. They became interested in this, began to say why we do not have such a house and green spaces, but he has everything. When Belokopytov found out that they were interested in his bag, he, of course, escaped."
"In Shakhty, a certain Karbut was allowed to work in the mail car without any check, who immediately stole 24 thousand rubles. And hid."
"In Astrakhan, they allowed a professional thief Demyanenko to work, who was sentenced to 10 years, escaped from exile, went to work for us and immediately stole 20 thousand rubles."

And this is my favorite
"In the Kiev region, Pinikovsky stole money and for this he was sentenced to public censure. "- Doesn't it look like anything?
"The communications worker of the Western Directorate Vladimirov was sentenced to 10 years in prison for forgery and embezzlement, but his forgot arrest, he left. "- guess how much FORGOT(!!!!) to arrest CONDEMNED (!!!!!)?

But why repressions (and even executions !!!!!) can not solve anything:

"Comrade Stalin, making a report on the economic situation in the USSR at the Leningrad asset, drew attention to the fact that we have not yet created a moral atmosphere for the fight against theft. Talking about the merry theft of some fertik with a mustache, who stole in front of our eyes everyone, Comrade Stalin warned that here it is impossible to confine oneself to the GPU measures alone, to measures of repression alone, that more real measures are needed here than repression measures. We understand the significance of these repressive measures, criminal in particular; we can apply them firmly and decisively enough! But we must admit that by some measures of repression we will not do anything if we do not create such a mood in the environment surrounding the rogue, whichwould instruct every citizen to look at a crook as a spy and traitor. Meanwhile, we have such phenomena are often observed when a rogue is patted good-naturedly on the shoulder and even seem to approve of his dexterity and courage, when they talk about a dexterous thief and even quite loudly: well, well done, they say, how much he licked! .."

And this is the question of the amounts stolen only by money transfer:
(For understanding at this moment, the maximum part was 600 rubles)
“What is the dynamics of the loss and theft of the transferred amounts? In 1931, there were so-called shortfalls in the transferred amounts, revealed by the Bureau of Translation Control, by 10 million rubles to 10 billion rubles in turnover; in 1932 - 16 -17 million rubles to 15½ billion rubles of turnover: in 1933 - 17 million rubles to 16½ billion rubles of turnover. Thus, their growth is by no means less than the growth of turnover itself, the share of these shortages in 1933 is about 0,09% of the total turnover The dynamics of theft and waste of these amounts is expressed in the following data: in 1933 for the whole year, waste and embezzlement was 10½ million rubles, for 9 months of this year - More than 12 million rubles, that is, for 9 months of embezzlement and embezzlement there were more than for the whole of 1933. The second payments were 6½ million rubles in 1933 and 7,7 million rubles for 9 months 1934 We have the same data on the growth of theft and on the annual balance. Analyzing these data by district, it is possible to establish both the regions and the main culprits of these phenomena. I was given a list of these regions to choose from.against 300 thousand rubles. 1933 - about 500 thousand rubles. for 9 months 1934 (head of the department, Comrade Gavrilov).
The Middle Volga Administration - 584 thousand rubles. for the whole of 1933 and
1. 700 thousand rubles. for 9 months of 1934 (head of the communications department, Comrade Zharkov).
In the East Siberian Administration in 1934, the theft and loss amounted to almost 1½ million rubles. (Head of Communications Department Comrade Kazakov).
Western Siberia - there, according to statistics, waste has slightly decreased. So, according to data for 9 months. 1934 t. Novikov expects to catch up and overtake 1933
In the Sverdlovsk Communications Directorate, Comrade Sinkov has a theft of over a million in the region.
In Moscow, which is especially unacceptable, the head of the postal department, Comrade Stekhov, committed theft in the amount of 1.120 thousand rubles. "

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: your1970

And this is my favorite

How little do you find it necessary - savor, how thieves acted ..

[your1970]

Quote: Alexander Green

Quote: your1970

And this is my favorite

How little do you find it necessary - savor, how thieves acted ..

I'm sorry but you
If it didn’t get to you that under Vladimirov Bold black print is highlighted - that under Stalin they not only stole millions (these are the billions of today, at least !!! and even trillions!) But there was wild corruption that allowed us to FORGET FORGOTTEN CONDEMNING THE CONDEMNED ... .
I haven’t heard about this now ... hush up, bribe a judge, intimidate witnesses, everything happened in the 90s ... but in order to FORGET now to forget to arrest the CONDEMNED

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: your1970

under Stalin, they not only stole millions (these are the billions of today, at least !!! or even trillions!) but there was wild corruption that made it possible to FORGET the arrest of the convicted ....

Well, how many people "forgot" to arrest? One case? Two cases ,? Some of the enemies managed to cover them, and you blame the whole system for this? Schoolchildren probably don't even do that.

[your1970]

That is, to read the text of the meeting to you in the bastard?
There, only the Moscow postmaster 1 (!!!!) stole money for the rifleman of the division or 3 T-34 tanks ...
One!!!!! And there were such administrations in the country ....

And this is an organization in which there was nothing to steal !!!! Not industry, not scribble, not finance, not even railway ...

You think just like that in the country in1934 there were 62 accidents on the railway ??? Yeah, schaz ..... the train was derailed and robbed ....
They introduced a decree 7/8 and over 4 years the accident rate fell 20 times (!!!) to 3

There was no corruption under Stalin, huh huh ....

Z.Y. about a fake military unit in which orders were awarded, and the military enlistment office called on fighters to even recall it was uninteresting

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: your1970

to the division’s gunner or 3 T-34 tanks ...

You read and take the fishing rod, from where did the Soviet state take the funds for the construction of factories, factories, steamboats, if everything was plundered by the police masters ...

[your1970]

Quote: Alexander Green

Read you

-You better read the documents of those times. I gave you examples from the life of those times. The railway in general was a mess and chaos was utter with anarchy. The story of Koreiko who stole echelons was not fiction, an absolute reality, Ilf and Petrov took it from the newspaper feuilleton, think for yourself how much you can take in a hungry year for a train of food.
Not the decree "7/8", not a word from Kaganovich "Every accident has a name, surname and position" - they are not just like that - from the bulldozer and not because "Stalin is a terrorist!" - life forced to take such measures.

Quote: Alexander Green

where did the Soviet state come from for the construction of factories, factories, ships, if everything was plundered by the police masters ....

-again
"In 1931, there were so-called shortfalls in the transfer amounts, identified by the Bureau of Translation Control, by 10 million rubles to 10 billion rubles of turnover; in 1932 - 16-17 million rubles to 15½ billion rubles. rubles of turnover: in 1933 - 17 million rubles to 16½ billion rubles of turnover. "- total was stolen in 3 years 44 млн rubles.
"The cost of the PPSh in 1941, that is, at the earliest stage of its development in production, was 500 rubles, which was already in order of magnitude comparable to the cost of a rifle of the 1891/30 model in the same period - 163 rubles, and significantly lower than the price self-loading rifle SVT, which according to pre-war plans was to become the main small arms in the Red Army by 1942 - 713 rubles for 1940, though with a planned reduction to 508 rubles in the future. "

This money (44 million) could be produced
PPSh - 88 000 Pieces
Mosin 1891/30 - 269 938 Pieces
SVT - 61 711 Pieces

“In this aspect, the data on purchase prices for tanks and armored vehicles (“ Plan of the order of the NKO, NKVMF, NKVD for 1940 ”), published on the website“ www.rkka.ru ”, will probably be of interest. So, in particular, KV -1 was planned to be purchased at 950000 rubles, T-34 at 300000 rubles, BT-7 at 162800 rubles, T-26 at 90908 rubles, T-40 at 48715 rubles, BA-10 at 46680 rubles, BA -20 to 18749 rubles (and a motorcycle TIZ-50 with a sidecar was purchased at 11500 rubles). "

This money (44 million) could be produced
KV-1 - 46 pcs.
T-34 - 146 pcs.
BT-7 - 270 pcs.
T-26 - 484 pcs.
T-40 - 903 pcs.
BA-10 - 942 pcs.
BA-20 - 2346 pcs.
motorcycle - 3826 pcs.

Do you understand? only mailers and only in 3 years Stole money which would be enough:
- armed with rifles (roughly) -26 divisions
- armed with motorcycles- 10 motorcycle regiments
- arming tanks - to the motorized division with BT-7 1940 state

Oh you

Quote: Alexander Green

plundered by police masters.

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: your1970

you better read the documents of those times. I gave you examples from the life of those times.

They decided to surprise - theft in Russia? So, starting with the Grand Dukes, they all stole. Look at other documents .. At first, the Soviet government treated this phenomenon more or less loyally, re-educated, gave short terms, believed that these were the birthmarks of tsarism, but when theft began to grow with the aggravation of the class struggle, the Law on the Protection of Property of State Enterprises was adopted collective farms and the strengthening of public (socialist) property. ”
Already in 5 months of 1932, 22.6 thousand people were convicted. In 1933, 103,4 thousand people, in 1934, 37,7 thousand people. Then the thefts were equated with the struggle against Soviet power, and measures against these crimes were tightened. Now your supporters are crying about this.

[your1970]

Quote: Alexander Green

They decided to surprise - theft in Russia?

-no .... you didn’t begin to read ...

I wrote to you NOT about wild theft (crazy even by today's standards of money !!) in the USSR during the time of Stalin - this is not interesting, I wrote to you about corruptionin the days of Stalin ...
About which everyone shouts in unison - "We must shoot and it will not be !!! as under Stalin !!" (or the option - "As in China!", But no - and then it bloomed and smelled

The average cost of building a plant for transactions with Alfred Kahn was $ 4 million; at that time, the rate was -1,24 rubles per dollar 4,96 million rubles for the construction of the plant
Now seamlessly recall the number of theft of mailers:

Quote: your1970

total was stolen in 3 years 44 million rubles.

and we are surprised to understand that they stole (in value terms !!!!) about 8 factories (!!!!) such as - Stalingrad Tractor, Chelyabinsk Tractor, Kharkov Tractor, ZIS, GAZ, well, a couple of aircraft factories to the heap ....

And God forbid there was no corruption - just

Quote: your1970

they forgot to arrest him, and he left.

and the "bloody OGPU-NKVD" looked into his pocket and controlled the timeliness of the dough dropping there

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: ser56

I don’t know the details, but if only the bosses were cut (6 sets), it’s not so bad ...

Which bosses, the hospitals closed, the doctors were dismissed, the queues in the clinic are crazy.

[Reptiloid]

Good evening, Alexander, Sometimes it seems that a lot of forum users do not live in Russia now and did not live in the USSR before either.

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: Reptiloid

Good evening, Alexander, Sometimes it seems that a lot of forum users do not live in Russia now and did not live in the USSR before either.

Hello Dmitry. Don’t pay attention to them, it’s their job to slander

[your1970]

Quote: Alexander Green

Quote: Reptiloid

Good evening, Alexander, Sometimes it seems that a lot of forum users do not live in Russia now and did not live in the USSR before either.

Hello Dmitry. Don’t pay attention to them, it’s their job to slander

- to bring facts from a closed archival document or from an open - but not read by anyone "Meeting ..." is "to slander" ???? !!!!!!
That is must write - "Everything was then blissful and decorous !!!" ????
but I thought that it was necessary - TRUTH write as it was AT YOURSELF actually ......

ZY open the Criminal Code of the RSFSR 1926 article "Bribe" and find out with surprise that the punishment for 1 part was BEFORE 2 years in total. But the second part - for those in charge, it was from 2 to VMN ...
Guess once WHY??

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: your1970

- to bring facts from a closed archival document or from an open - but not read by anyone "Meeting ..." is "to slander" ???? !!!!!!

Facts, if they are true, do not in themselves slander. Slander those who use them for libel.

[your1970]

Quote: Alexander Green

Quote: your1970

- to bring facts from a closed archival document or from an open - but not read by anyone "Meeting ..." is "to slander" ???? !!!!!!

Facts, if they are true, do not in themselves slander. Slander those who use them for libel.

And what is my "slander" ??? Can you refute the materials of the "Meeting ..." ?? Can you refute my conclusions about corruption and theft of everything and everything under Stalin ???

Again

Quote: your1970

total was stolen for 3 years 44 million rubles.
and we are surprised to understand that they stole (in cost equivalent !!!!) approximately 8 factories (!!!!) such as - Stalingrad Tractor, Chelyabinsk Tractor, Kharkov Tractor, ZIS, GAZ, well, a couple of aircraft factories to the heap ....

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: your1970

And what is my "slander" ??? Can you refute the materials of the "Conference ..."?

How incomprehensible you are: the mere facts of the meeting are not slander. Slander is your conclusion and its relishing that in the USSR under Stalin there was corruption that was not fought.
If it is published in a newspaper, then this is confirmation that they fought with these phenomena.

[your1970]

Quote: Alexander Green

Slander is your conclusion and its relishing that in the USSR under Stalin there was corruption that was not fought.

Ie you have not read the materials of the "Meeting ..." ???
".... Waste expenses on the line of the transfer economy for the same period of time are expressed in the amount of 117 thousand rubles, forgeries are expressed in the amount of 17.854 rubles.
A.I. Rykov. “I will kill you, you have given absolute numbers.” I compare the dynamics, you have theft and embezzlement in 1933 was 70 thousand., and for 9 months this year 131 thousand., what's the matter?
No, for 11 months. 117.723. (Rykov. - And in 1933 there were 70 thousand). in 1934 there were 60.697 thefts and robberies, and embezzlement amounted to 117.723. (Rykov. - So you are getting a doubling compared to 1933, why did you steal twice as much in 1934 as in 1933? You do not give me an answer to this). The fact is that this year they did not steal more, I would not say this, but this year they began to audit more. (Rykov. - By the end of the year, you make up the balance sheet for all balances?) The fact is that not all revealed abuses are reflected in the balance sheet, and this year the revision work has been intensified. (Rykov. - The balance is to give the balance as of January 1 of the next year for cash receivable and payable, as a result of theft, embezzlement and other things, but there is a balance and therefore the remainder of last year is 70 thousand, this year you have lost twice as much) ... "

"In Fergana, former ROZ Ugryumov was convicted for embezzlement of 58 thousand rubles for 8 years. Moreover, this case is characteristic in the following respect. The case was delayed by the analysis in view of the flight of Ugryumov, and he was found among the employees of the Kyrgyz Communications Directorate, where he fled after the theft. (Rykov. - You have theft - it has become a household phenomenon, 85% of thefts are committed by ROSES, with the participation of the entire apparatus. How do you really struggle with these phenomena? After all, you are not professional thieves?)"
"This Platonov was attracted to accountability fledand then it turned out that he turned out to be deputy Head of Translation Control Bureau in Rostov-on-Don."

And how did it end for Igoshkin?
It is known - that they stole the sums of thefts in 1993, it is known - that they stole the sums of thefts in 1934 ...
Apparently they shot, right? or in "kgovy Gulag"? Schaz ...

"For failure to comply repeated directives to combat theft and abuse in communications - I order:
1. The head of the Uzbek communications department, comrade Igoshkin, to be removed from his post and appointed to one of the regions of the Uzbek Republic as the head of the regional communications department ........ "

Like Serdyukov .......

Z.Y. all the others stealing - reprimand
Yes, our corrupt officials cry from envy ... reprimand, eprst ...

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: your1970

Ie you have not read the materials of the "Meeting ..." ???

I repeat, for those who are especially dull: how to understand this Conference correctly. It indicates that there were some omissions, they were revealed, voiced at the meeting, and then they will correct all the shortcomings, and I am sure that the deserved "award" sooner or later found all the "heroes" revealed at this meeting.

[your1970]

Quote: Alexander Green

I am sure that the well-deserved "award" sooner or later found all the "heroes" revealed at this meeting.

-and I'm sure that current he will certainly find embezzlers ... the only question is - when ???
And so then - maybe found, or maybe not ...

Someone after so many "sentenced to 10 years, forgot to arrest", "convicted - works Head of Translation Control Bureau(!!!!!) "," stole-disappeared "- I stop believing in principle that under Stalin, anyone was imprisoned at all ...
rather it will be like this - stole - gave dough - "forgot to arrest / made public censure / sent to lead the department"

Quote: your1970

(Rykov. - You have theft - has taken a household phenomenon, 85% of thefts are committed by ROSES, with the participation of the entire apparatus.

Stole the cost of 8 plants and:
"I scammed the common money - and blamed it on the taxi driver!" © Gentlemen of Fortune

However, I'm tired of convincing you of anything.
For myself, I have long concluded: total thieves and corruption under Stalin - documented bitter true. It will be mastered by the usual methods (they must have the brains and the knowledge to prove economic crimes !!!) - therefore they sculpted everyone 58. It did not help ...
it was about this that Steel spoke (I quoted an excerpt earlier)

Quote: your1970

"Comrade Stalin, making a report on the economic situation in the USSR at the Leningrad asset, drew attention to the fact that we have not yet created a moral atmosphere for the fight against theft. Talking about the merry theft of some fertik with a mustache, who stole in front of our eyes everyone, Comrade Stalin warned that there one measure of the GPU, one measure of repression cannot be limited, that more real measures are needed here than repression measures. We understand the value of these repressive measures, criminal in particular; we can apply them firmly and decisively enough! But we must admit by means of repressive measures alone, we will not do anything if we do not create such a mood in the environment surrounding the rogue, which would make every citizen look at a crook as a spy and traitor. Meanwhile, we often observe such phenomena when a rogue good-naturedly pat on the shoulder and even seem to approve of his dexterity and courage, when they talk about a clever thief and even quite loudly: here, they say, well done, - what amount he licked! .. "

Quote: Alexander Green

It indicates that there were some omissions, they were opened, voiced at the meeting, and then they will correct all the flaws,

"Oh yes !!! we have always loved Unas reports! I specially singled out for you
"Behind non-compliance repeated (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) directives to combat theft and abuse of communications - I order:
1. The head of the Uzbek communications department, comrade Igoshkin, to be removed from his post and appointed to one of the regions of the Uzbek Republic as the head of the regional communications department. "- and I thought - in the basement at Lubyanka immediately ....there was such a naive faith

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: your1970

However, I’m tired of convincing you of anything .... but I thought - to the basement on the Lubyanka right away .... there was such a naive faith.

So convince the liberalists who shout about the terrible Stalinist repression. and the Gulag. Why are you convincing me?

[mmaxx]

Such cases ultimately led to the Stalinist laws that everyone knew. In Europe, 400 years ago, people weren’t brought up

[Olgovich]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

Nitrates were poured, especially here, in the Non-Chernozem Region on the principle of how much they sent, and used so much, that is, from the bulldozer.

in Moldova, the soil was so poisoned with nitrates and pesticides that artesian water with multiple excesses of MPC is still there.

When we went to the grapes, the whole group began to dry for three days until they got used to it: it’s impossible to wash off all the hands in pesticides, the boots are blue and white from poisons, in other places it’s impossible to breathe from chemical fumes ...

[helvetic]

You are probably so illiterate or malicious that you "forget" that it is not correct to compare mortality under the modern demographic and social model and the analogous model of thirty years ago. Roughly speaking, the greater the number of children, the greater the death rate among young people and its influence on all indicators "in the hospital".

[AU Ivanov.]

And I didn’t talk about mortality, but about the massive use of chemicals in the agriculture of the USSR.

[Krasnodar]

Quote: Alexander Green

Today, those who grew up during the Soviet era and ate real foods live longer, this is not the merit of today's life. Those who are growing today will not live so much today, not a single conscript in the army can be found 100% healthy today.

This is what they ate healthy ??
Pesticidal - herbicidal vegetables and fruits? Hard chewing gum with a bunch of bacon called cervelat sausage? Little blue hens? (You can’t tell me about their naturalness - I saw normal chickens in both Israel and Germany, a friend from Russia made soup from Israeli chickens - he says, it tastes like my GRAND VILLAGE - from the yard, under the Union). Normal food, yeah ...

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: Krasnodar

This is what they ate healthy ??
Pesticidal - herbicidal vegetables and fruits?

And in Germany and Israel, natural food is not affordable for ordinary people; they are treated with substitutes with various fillers. All hens are pumped up with all sorts of muck to grow faster, and fruits and vegetables with formalin, so as not to spoil. Eat - in your mouth for a long time bitterness remains.

[AU Ivanov.]

Natural product in any country is an expensive pleasure.

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

Natural product in any country is an expensive pleasure.

But in the USSR it was everything and accessible to everyone.

[AU Ivanov.]

Then in all countries the products were natural. There were no such technologies yet, although they had already developed and even ended up in the USSR. And in the Russian Empire, 100% of the products were grown without the use of chemistry. This is not the merit of the USSR, it is simply the lack of appropriate technology.

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

Then in all countries the products were natural.

Alas, I had to visit abroad regularly since 1969, and all the time I wondered where the abundance of food on the shelves was going on, they were all not for sale. It turns out that already some goods were stored for a long time, for example, milk in bags never soured, apples were chopped with formalin and doused with something like paraffin, fish and meat as soon as the smell appeared were also soaked in formalin, at best in potassium permanganate.

[Krasnodar]

Once again - after my friend from Russia bought a chicken in a cheap Israeli supermarket, cheap and ordinary, available for daily food to a cleaning lady and a security guard working for a minimum wage in capitalist Israel, he cooked it and ate it.
His words - it looks like a VILLAGE chicken from the grandmother's yard in the village, back under the USSR.
“Did the store ones taste different?” - I ask (and in general, why people are surprised at the taste of the COMMON CHICKEN?)
- At cyanotic? Earth and sky. - He speaks.
As for Germany - the same quality of products. I don’t remember the bitterness in my mouth after taking them - although I lived in the first for half a year and half a second in the second, I bought in different supermarkets and shops - from the cheapest and most expensive ones - I didn’t notice the difference in assortment in quality.
Where do you live - share

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: Krasnodar

- At cyanotic? Earth and sky. - He speaks.

You have lived over the hill for so many years and still do not understand that our "blue" chicken was without any harmful dietary supplements? And all foreign ones were stuffed with hormones and other muck? And that you were never surprised that apples are pumped with preservative?

[Krasnodar]

And why was the taste of the cyanotic Soviet chicken strikingly different from the village chicken, while the "stuffed" Western chicken was identical to the natural one? ))

[AU Ivanov.]

You are wrong. From the moment poultry farms appeared in the USSR, that is, industrial poultry farming, antibiotics and additives began to be used in it. And with pig breeding there was the same picture: we mastered Danish technology, unthinkable without additives and antibiotics.

[3x3zsave]

But sausage in Israel is disgusting! Sorry buddy !!!
I know that the felt-tip pens are different and the chemicals in Russia are more energetic ... But Israeli sausage sucks!

[Krasnodar]

Hello! Which one? )))
Mortadella - tastier than a doctor’s, prosciutto - like norms, pastramas are all good. What did you buy, remember?
If the "tea room", which usually goes in a set with cheap pastramkry thinly cut pieces, then yes, byaka)). There are also tasteless sausages like in "sticks".

[3x3zsave]

Yes FIG knows! Something boiled, sliced ​​and vacuum packed ..
The taste of the "breakfasttourist" that I was for the first day and a half. Then it became easier. Usually I adapt longer, but the first person I saw, getting off the plane in Ovda, was a man, about thirty, in a suit, with an M-16 ... And somehow my heart felt relieved ...

[Krasnodar]

So tea or greyish green like it is. That yes - it sucks completely. Well, then, I realized that you are safe. ))

[Fat]

Quote: Alexander Green

Today, those who grew up during the Soviet era and ate real foods live longer, this is not the merit of today's life.

The history of the appearance of imitated caviar
The imitated appearance of caviar was first made in factories in the Brezhnev years. It was made in the USSR, thanks to the Institute of Organoelement Compounds, headed by academician Nesmeyanov.
The composition of the product, which was to become the most popular product for every citizen of the councils, included egg white. The manufacturing technique was as follows: balls of caviar were formed from an egg mixture and heated in sunflower oil.
The first batch was called Iskra. Later, gelatin was added to it and each egg was cooled. The novelty had a more natural color and consistency and was more economical for factories ...
How many more scientific teams created superfoods for the Soviet people?
Reconstituted milk and "powdered" sour cream also came to us from the USSR

[mmaxx]

Just in the wake of the 90s expanded the list of sores for the challenge in the call. And that’s all. They called me here and Vasya did not itch. And now I would live - they did not call. And the diagnosis has become much better. And I saw such people that I was amazed at how they were generally taken into the army. In a person with nerves and coordination in any way. But there was a plan and they took it.

[AU Ivanov.]

Guys, I was recently being repaired here in the former Sverdlovka hospital, where no one would have let me into the threshold at the USSR. She was only for nomenclature. Now - please, both for money and for quota.

[Krasnodar]

By the way, I had to go to the closed hospitals and clinics of Lechsanupra of the USSR for white people — this, of course, was heaven and earth in comparison with ordinary institutions ...

Adherents of return to the USSR forget about this

[helvetic]

To get to these institutions, it was not necessary to be a party functionary. For example, oil workers, geologists and members of their families calmly sent there (personal experience, Tyumen region). Special clinics were for those who worked in the direction necessary for the state, and not for those with a pocket full.

[Krasnodar]

Moreover, the highest priority was the management of urban, regional, etc. committees of the CPSU, and teachers and engineers with foundry workers, say, did not succeed in such an honor. Not to mention less conscious peasants
Question - where is the declared equality of workers?

[helvetic]

And why the plebeian (for the Western Eurasian culture of alphabetic writing) pictorial image? Equality will not be for everyone until communism comes along. The American Dream is also not for the majority. But the coverage of free medical institutions was much greater than in countries of comparable size (USA, Canada), and certainly much more than now. By the way, a special clinic, like Scandinavia now, is not a guarantee. In the same institution, where in 1988, without any connections, they undertook to treat the grandson of a technical school teacher, fifteen years earlier the "advanced" dentist had removed all the teeth of the notorious BE Shcherbina.

[Krasnodar]

In other words, the functionaries of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union identified themselves as elites. But, having understood that even being privileged people in their own country, they can catch up with the working people of the same West Germany (let us leave the US health care system — the country is imprisoned for make money, poor — it’s our own fault) in terms of the quality of medical services received through the Bismarovo health insurance system. An example - the same Andropov could correct kidney problems in Germany, but, being a decent person, he refused this, having died earlier, being treated in the Union. As a result, having decided to openly use the achievements of the decaying West, they destroyed the country, becoming capitalists)).
And why? Because they were INEFFECT.

[mmaxx]

I have never agreed with you.
But here I will support 100%.

[svp67]

Quote: kalibr

You can write anything

Only if certain rules (written or unwritten) are not violated. And in this case, there is a violation. It is not just that in the USA in the cinemas there was an inscription "Don't shoot at the taper, plays as best he can ...". So it is with us, you CAN'T insult the author !!! You can disagree with his opinion, argue, but not go over to insults.
And at the expense of the article. Yes, it was hard, but there is a huge difference between the time and the modern. People lived in hope and faith that everything will be fixed. And the situation was getting better, it’s enough to compare the cities of the 60s, 70s and 80s.

[Olgovich]

Quote: svp67

Only if certain rules (written or unwritten) are not violated. And in this case, there is a violation. It is not just that in the USA in the cinemas there was an inscription "Don't shoot at the taper, plays as best he can ...". So it is with us, you CAN'T insult the author !!! You can disagree with his opinion, argue, but not go over to insults.

100% support!

Quote: svp67

And at the expense of the article. Yes, it was hard, but there is a huge difference between the time and the modern. People lived in hope and faith that everything will be fixed.

And today, just live LONG.

[Reptiloid]

Olgovich! Greetings! I began to write comments below today, but for you I will repeat ---- the census of 1898 in the Republic of Ingushetia. The only one in RI --- average age of life --- 30 years. !!!!!
The privilege was to live longer with the ruling class. The merchants, the senators in the picture are elderly, the mother lived about 80 years old. If the average age is 30 years, how many people lived, if not merchants or nobles.
It was under Stalin that life expectancy began to increase !.
So it's not easy

......LIVE LONGER .......

!!!!!!!!

[Olgovich]

Quote: Reptiloid

Olgovich! Greetings!

Hello Dmitry!

Quote: Reptiloid

The privilege was to live longer with the ruling class. The merchants, the senators in the picture are elderly, the mother lived about 80 years old. If the average age is 30 years, how many people lived, if not merchants or nobles.

People then did not live much less, but many babies died, which gave low indicators of life expectancy.

My grandmother and grandfather (peasants) and their parents lived for 90-95 years, they didn’t go to the hospital polyclinics at all

Quote: Reptiloid

It was under Stalin that life expectancy began to increase !.
So it's not easy

WORLDWIDE at this time increased life expectancy.

She grew up in Russia before the thief.

And here is the result of the "struggle" of the party - the RUSSIAN CROSS - in all the unfortunate 70 years of its "successes".

[Krasnodar]

Today they live longer and better.

[begemot20091]

You read and marvel at the victims of the exam: skimp on numbers, without having any understanding of the elementary nature of time and events. 1962 - less than 20 years have passed since the war. This was the war when the whole of Europe tried to destroy and plunder the "scoop" (according to the author). Until the last minute, the freedom-loving French SS "Charlemagne" became the last defenders of the Reichstag and the Reich Chancellery, these are the Belgian SS divisions "Langemark" and "Wallonia", these are the grenadier regiments "Danmark" and "Norge" - Dutch volunteers. In 1962, I was a schoolboy - out of 31 people in our village class, up to 10 "reached" 30 (one was 2 years behind due to poor progress). 27 people entered institutes, universities and military schools "from the first step". No one died, no one contracted tuberculosis (by the way, to this day, 28 people are in good health). Of the 35 people of our graduation (university), 32 are still alive (3 people died - their classmates' heart could not stand it in the 90s). Out of 35 people: 2 are academicians, 8 are doctors of sciences, 14 are candidates of sciences. Well, the rest remained human. Apparently, it was hard to defend a doctoral dissertation at the Faculty of History, so the person contracted to "sprinkle" such articles. There are a lot of similar people now - “profession obliges”. Grind with your tongue - don't carry bags. How many years have passed since 1962? Computed tomographs, digital X-ray machines, .... AND ?????
"About 100 people die of tuberculosis annually in the Penza region. The corresponding statistics were published by the regional department of Rospotrebnadzor on the eve of the world day against this infectious disease (it is celebrated on March 24).
In 2017, 362 residents of the region were diagnosed with tuberculosis (in 2016 - 472), the incidence rate was 29,4 per 100 thousand population. "And in continuation" Success has been achieved in the fight against tuberculosis - mortality rates have decreased this year almost doubled from 1990 levels. However, in 2014, there were 1,5 million deaths from the disease. Most of these deaths could have been prevented, according to the Global Tuberculosis Report 2015, released today by WHO in Washington, DC. “On average, 8 out of a million Europeans die of tuberculosis every year, but the statistics differ from country to country. Lithuania is in the first place in mortality, where 60 people per million die of tuberculosis, in second place is Romania (50), and in third - Latvia (39). In neighboring Germany, a few years ago, there was no alarm about the likelihood of an increase in the number of patients with consumption, as the disease was formerly called, now it is perceived as one of the threats of the next decade.According to the Berliner Morgenpost, more than 4 thousand new cases of the disease are registered annually in the country, and the situation is especially unfavorable in the regions around Frankfurt and Berlin, where a large number of migrants.Many foreigners are outside the supervision of the state, and in relation to them cannot live compulsory measures of treatment were prescribed. Does the Czech Republic have a preventive strategy to contain TB in case of an increase in migration flows, and how many cases of TB detection among migrants in the Czech Republic are currently? ".....
I will no longer "load" the "historically informed" graduates of the Faculty of History, former members of the CPSU. Work further in the field of lampoons on your past. Maybe you will get some attention. Better yet, go out to the central square of the city of Penza, take off your pants and ... Show your "proletarian ass" to the historical past of Penza medicine. Well, or let's say by the example of Pavlovsky, crack your genitals with a brick on the porch of the Spassky Cathedral. Then for sure !!!! the whole Russ will talk about you.

[Sergey S.]

Quote: begemot20091

I will no longer "load" the "historically informed" graduates of the Faculty of History, former members of the CPSU.

It's useless.
Because

even though the site gathered a lot of experts on everything and everything, access to the archives, especially the archives of the OK CPSU, they do not have and rely only on their own memory and on what “the men in the smoking room said”

Historians, like other professional humanitarians, rely only on some professional rules ... developed by them. Someone else's opinion, or rather, the opinion of specialists in other fields, including engineers, is of little interest to them and only when it does not violate their "historical" logic ... They also declare that they operate with versions, and have the truth only in the future .. ...
The result is terrible accusations of Soviet power:

The Bureau of the OK CPSU reported (the same document, p. 322) that at the Penza diesel plant a complaint is received for every sixth diesel engine released, but the situation cannot be rectified!

I would be a professional, I would know how many marriages were "chased" in 1915, 1939, 1942, 1961, ..... 1990, 2020
I would know that ... And I was delighted with the success of Penza diesel builders.
And if I understood the reasons for marriage at different periods of the development of the Motherland, there was generally talk about something else.
On the saturation of education with sciences, and a share in the formation of humanitarian delirium like "... even si in heaven ...." or "... while I see you you exist ..."

For reference - the level of marriage is determined not only by the slackness and lack of professionalism of the workers, but also by the level of complexity of the product, the degree of mastery of the technologies used, the correspondence of the real education of the performers to the tasks being solved, ...

I can imagine what historians will write when they read the documents on the work of KB S.P. Queen!!!!
When Yu.A. Gagarin was returning from space, happened to him, heard from the astronaut Yu.M. Baturin, ... 13 (from memory) of emergency situations, simply troubles, - flew away completely wrong, it was not spinning foreseen ....

Outlined a theme! Historians! You just have to climb into the archives, pull out certain facts and ... condemn the Soviet cosmonautics. Why is it better than Penza health care?

And to other historians. Of course, you need to study the documents. During the training ...
The main task of historians is to introduce new information about the past into public life, that is, live on the border between the past and the present and document eyewitness accounts, save the surviving technical rarities, and provide museumification of the passing era. And to do this is not selective ...

[Krasnodar]

1) In the early 60s, the standard of living in the FRG bombed out in the trash was already higher than in the neighboring GDR and than in the Union - to your possible objections that the Americans helped them, I’ll answer right away - they helped to a much lesser extent than the British and the French, and the pace of German economic growth was already higher then. In the 70s, the standard of living of West Germans also became higher. Outperformed the less bombed and more received shaves and francs. Why? Quality management.
2) 27 people came from the first call - well done. And of course, priority was given to rural cadres upon admission.
3) Alive - this was how they ate from the yard of the garden, and not from what was in the Soviet stores.
4) Tuberculosis - yes, the scourge of Europe))))

[helvetic]

Not just the quality of governance and the Marshall Plan. Also - actually cartel relations with former economic competitors (since 1951 - ECSC) and extremely modest own defense costs (in fact, they remained under American occupation, feline borders). + Maintaining the continuity of technological development and personnel with a colossal fall in the cost of labor. + destruction / finishing off the aristocracy and violent activation of the capital of the former landowners (Erhard's reform, read Köppen's Doves in the Grass) + openness of the American market and access to all technologies. Here and it is impossible to compare - if not shed tears about the war - the conditions for Germany and Japan were just ideal. Neither Britain and France, who tried to pursue an independent policy, nor, even more so, the USSR, had nothing of the kind.

[Krasnodar]

This, too, but not everything was so rosy about defense spending - they were minor, but sensitive to a country broken into rubbish. Access to all technologies - yes, I agree. But let's not forget about the breakdown of multiple economic chains and ties due to the division of the country into two practically warring parts - Japan, for example, did not have this. Yapov had another problem - the lack of fossils)).

[begemot20091]

Firstly, for the villagers in general, the problem was with admission - the problem of passports (read the story). Secondly: well, we did not have a summer cottage and a large vegetable garden - 3 acres of the entire plot in a Siberian village, where 9 months is winter, and the rest is cold. Thirdly, there were no such priorities. all the more so at the faculties related to applied physics. we received more than 200 people for 50 places that year. of them priority: to workers' faculty who have served urgently. Yes, there were "encouragements" while studying - I did not pass the session - go ahead, chasing the Soviet Army, every summer - construction detachments - there was no retreat.

[Krasnodar]

So - there was a quality school)). As for the products - what years are we talking about? And none of those who lived in adulthood in the USSR really could explain to me - why was it so terrible in the Soviet term that they were afraid of it like fire?

[sniperino]

Quote: kalibr

here it is the legacy of the "collective farm" - visible rudeness

I would like to challenge this statement. Rudeness is not a derivative of the economy in general and the form of management in particular. Having abandoned the traditional form of social consciousness that regulates moral relations between people, the Marxists did not find an adequate replacement for it. Religion provides people with a holistic semantic space for moral reflection of their perception of others, their emotions and intentions in relation to them. This space of "the other world" is an opportunity (for believers - a necessity) of a mental exit from the situation and a moral assessment of their single action in relation to another or other people as significant for their whole life. Ham just lacks this, for him it does not matter at all against the background of his own satiety and well-being. Herzen saw and described the "coming boor" in the European philistinism, and Merezhkovsky carried out a philosophical analysis of this phenomenon and gave it this name. Ham did not leave the collective farm

[Sergey S.]

Quote: sniperino

This space of "the other world" is an opportunity (for believers - a necessity) of a mental exit from the situation and a moral assessment of their single action in relation to another or other people as significant for their whole life.

I agree in many ways.
But religion is not the point.
Before the revolution, when everyone went to churches, there was less rudeness ???
Or only commoners "reflected" on the state of society with cultural benevolence.
Or the nobility, with rare exceptions, commoners were not called boorish ...

So the Marxists have nothing to do with it.
Moreover, only atheists who understand that the promised afterlife do not have the opportunity to absolve themselves of sins. And they know that the only opportunity to change the situation is not to put candles and donate to the bells, but to correct the situation right now.
For atheists there is neither indulgence, nor forgiveness of the after-confession, no belief in the afterlife justice and the triumph of justice for everyone by itself ...

[sniperino]

Quote: Sergey S.

Before the revolution, when everyone went to churches, was there less rudeness?

The question is interesting. I know how to conduct a comparative historical and psychological study and obtain reliable data on the historical types of rudeness in different periods in one country. But how to count them in order to answer the question about more or less ... You know? I believe that the answer to it will always be subjective, but with some pretense to "scientific", since the assessment will be given from the subjective system of moral coordinates. In short, yes, less.

[Sergey S.]

Quote: sniperino

The question is interesting. I know how to conduct a comparative historical and psychological study and obtain reliable data on the historical types of rudeness in different periods in one country. But how to count them ...

Great jump from the topic.
I will answer based on family tradition.
My great-grandfather began serving in the Guards crew as a young man.
Participated in the Russian-Turkish, inflicted ferries on the Danube. I got the medal ...

So, he said that in the Guards crew officers of the sailors did not hit in the face.

And this was a rare case of the absence of rudeness in imperial time ...

[sniperino]

Quote: Sergey S.

And this was a rare case of the absence of rudeness in imperial time ...

Great-grandfather said so "a rare case of the absence of rudeness in tsarist times"? Didn't you say if the sailor got hit in the face for the cause?

[Sergey S.]

Quote: sniperino

Great-grandfather said so "a rare case of the absence of rudeness in tsarist times"? Didn't you say if the sailor got hit in the face for the cause?

I see no reason to laugh.
Then my great-grandfather went to the "Rynda" with Abelen to the Russian semicircle.
He retired in 1906 from the post of medical assistant to the 18th naval crew in the XNUMXth grade (lieutenant) with his personal nobility. He was strict in the family! But so that the assault ... only after a towel - the grandmother told.

And more.
Ordinary people may not be educated, do not know etiquette.
A famous case with Yu.A. Gagarin at the reception of the British Queen ...
Rudeness is different - when a jerk with a piece of paper says "you" to the cleaner, when the teachers talk and "don't notice" the student who comes up, when the manager doesn't listen to the subordinate, when they swear in front of women and children, ...
What does Marxism have to do with it?
Here it is just right to think about the dangers of worldviews built on ideological postulates.
in Nietzscheanism, for example ...

[sniperino]

Quote: Sergey S.

I see no reason to laugh

You ignored my 2 questions, but make a complaint about the teething ball? Do you communicate with the ball or with me, I don’t understand ...

[Sergey S.]

Quote: sniperino

Quote: Sergey S.

I see no reason to laugh

You ignored my 2 questions, but make a complaint about the teething ball? Do you communicate with the ball or with me, I don’t understand ...

Questions - is this this ???

Quote: sniperino

Great-grandfather said so "a rare case of the absence of rudeness in tsarist times"? Didn't you say if the sailor got hit in the face for the cause?

Great-grandfather died in the first blockade winter. Of course he is not for me to "say so".
But the key to understanding for the reader with any level of imagination has been given.

Quote: Sergey S.

I will answer based on family tradition.

Your second question is exclusively on the topic.
Only it is not about "mattress".
In addition, I’ll tell you that such an attitude to persons wearing the rank of a sailor is inferior in the naval hierarchy, it’s impossible to classify anything other than rudeness.

The story of the Guard crew is about this.

And at first I thought that answering these questions directly was inconvenient.

[sniperino]

Quote: Sergey S.

And at first I thought that answering these questions directly was inconvenient.

Strange affair. If

teachers talk and "do not notice" the approaching student

, this is rudeness, and if you "do not notice" the questions of your opponent, whom you yourself have drawn into the discussion, then this

found it directly inconvenient to answer

It’s conveniently arranged ... Boorish advice: do not attract anything personal and expensive as arguments in a dispute, all the more so do not draw by the ears. In a dispute, they laugh at the arguments, but not at your great-grandfather, but you start up and start openly typing and then be rude.

[AU Ivanov.]

In the Soviet Army, they didn’t beat us in the face, for jambs such as drunkenness, self-propelled guns and other arts? Did you serve in the army?
Do you think when the kings there were no drunkards and self-propelled gunners?

[Sergey S.]

About rudeness at all times ... unfortunately, I know. I saw, received, myself somehow ...

I got turned on only because of an attempt to shove rudeness on the "Marxists" and because of enthusiasm for religion, allegedly saving from rudeness ...

[sniperino]

Quote: Sergey S.

I wound up only because of an attempt to shove rudeness on the "Marxists"

You will be hit by misunderstanding, so start.

[Sergey S.]

Quote: sniperino

You will be hit by misunderstanding, so start.

?????????????? ..... !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do not understand.

[sniperino]

Quote: Sergey S.

?????????????

↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑

[chenia]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

In the Soviet Army they didn’t beat us in the face

They were beaten (officers), but very rarely, in exceptional cases. For, often the alternative for a fighter was prison. And who abused flew out of the army with a bang.

[AU Ivanov.]

In RI, officers also did not particularly abuse the assault, it was not comme il faut. They hit the unter teeth - crickets, basically. In the Navy they were called skins.

[chenia]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

the officers also didn’t particularly abuse the assault,

The SA was also considered dishonest. Moreover, the political guys were atrocious about this.
And sergeants, yes!

[your1970]

Quote: chenia

Quote: AS Ivanov.

In the Soviet Army they didn’t beat us in the face

They were beaten (officers), but very rarely, in exceptional cases. For, often the alternative for a fighter was prison. And who abused flew out of the army with a bang.

Tsstststststs .... extremely rare ...
In 1989, in Kushka, the duty officer went into the barracks only after sending the cartridge to the chamber, for it was fraught - the Afghans were under an amnesty, they were waiting for the demobilization, they did not care who they beat when drunk ....
And the usual scuffle ... the wildest case is when 2 Uzbeks for slowly found cigarettes were kicked to death by an Uzbek (!!) from their (!!!) aul ... they went on a demobilization last, an amnesty.,
And how the local Turkmens were afraid of them ... they wrote to the Central Committee of the CPSU, Gorbachev, to the KGB of the USSR ...

[chenia]

Quote: your1970

In 1989, on duty in Kushka

Yes, but then the wild times came - no law, no truth.
But then I was in Ukraine.

[your1970]

There were still Soviet times, before the collapse of the USSR, there were another 3 years

[fuxila]

Quote: Sergey S.

Moreover, only atheists who understand that the promised afterlife do not have the opportunity to absolve themselves of sins. And they know that the only opportunity to change the situation is not to put candles and donate to the bells, but to correct the situation right now.
For atheists there is neither indulgence, nor forgiveness of the after-confession, no belief in the afterlife justice and the triumph of justice for everyone by itself ...

I believe that this is precisely why the atheistic USSR has reached a dead end ... So I am Orthodox and always keep in mind that I will have to answer for everything I have said and done, sooner or later, and an atheist, which is called "on a drum," can get nasty , if you know that they will not give a tambourine, and steal, if you know that they will not go to jail. For me, earthly life is a short moment, after which eternity will come (in hell or heaven), but for an atheist life is only here and now, and therefore it is necessary to use it to the fullest. I have a second cousin of a one-year-old atheist who has lived his life walking among women, abusing alcohol, bringing grief to his loved ones. And to all the exhortations he says: "We only live once!" I remember when we studied Ostrovsky "How the Steel Was Tempered" at school, many were surprised (or even directly called him a fool) why Korchagin was so angry, because he did not even have children for whom it was worth sacrificing himself so much.

[Sergey S.]

Quote: fuxila

I believe that this is why the atheistic USSR came to a standstill ...

The paradox is that they did the revolution, they blew up the temples, they committed atrocities in civil ... citizens brought up in the lessons of the Law of God ...
But .... God forbid, I’m just saying that K. Marx is not to blame for all sins.
Moreover, the USSR, as it turned out, was not an atheist country.
It turned out that even former and not only former party members .... together with the EBN they illuminated themselves with the sign of the Cross ... and stole, robbed, lied ...

Quote: fuxila

So I am Orthodox and always keep in mind that sooner or later I will have to answer for everything said and done by me, and an atheist, as they say, “on the drum,” can get nasty if you know that they won't give a tambourine, and steal if you know they won't go to jail.

But the Orthodox still hopes for God's mercy ...
This hope is needed in order to allow indulgences ...

Quote: fuxila

I have a second cousin of a one-year-old atheist who has lived his life walking among women, abusing alcohol, bringing grief to his loved ones. And to all exhortations he says: "We only live once!"

I doubt very much that this man is a Marxist — there are simply not a lot of brains (sorry for a relative).
The Orthodox can say the same ...
This is not a question of ideology, but of conscience.
Why someone decided that conscience and religion are one and the same, I can’t understand.
Personally familiar with unscrupulous Orthodox and conscientious communists.

Quote: fuxila

I remember when we studied Ostrovsky "How the Steel Was Tempered" at school, many were surprised (or even directly called him a fool) why Korchagin was so angry, because he did not even have children for whom it was worth sacrificing himself so much.

So you yourself support my point of view.

God forbid me from persecuting the Orthodox.
With all due respect ... to conscientious people.

[fuxila]

they made a revolution, churches were blown up, they committed atrocities into civilians ... citizens brought up in the lessons of the Law of God ...

I agree, only by the beginning of the twentieth century. faith has already been greatly lost and this was the end of a process that began long before 1917. Similarly, in the 90s. Soviet people were completely robbing themselves, and not ordinary people, but partnomenclature like EBN and Gaidar, and many ordinary Soviet people also robbed and killed each other, straying into criminal gangs, with some kind of sadistic cruelty ...

I doubt very much that this man is a Marxist — there are simply not a lot of brains (sorry for a relative).

Not a Marxist, and I didn’t even hint at it ... But to think that people lead a wild life only from the absence of brains is complete primitivism. This is not even confirmed by the example of my relative, who is valued and kept at work even with all the drunken hops.

Why someone decided that conscience and religion are one and the same, I can’t understand.

Probably because in the Orthodox teaching there is still a definition of conscience - this is a spark of God, and what kind of conscience is not clear for atheist materialists. One atheist, Adolf Aloizovich, even called her a chimera ...

[Pilat2009]

Quote: Sergey S.

It turned out that even former and not only former party members .... together with the EBN they illuminated themselves with the sign of the Cross ... and stole, robbed, lied ...

The answer is simple: Repent and forgive your sins. They were taught not to see them at school. Morally, any crime can be justified, a thousand reasons can be found. It’s not a matter of religion, but of conscience

[rocket757]

AUTO RU.
THE TRUTH IS SOMEWHERE NEAR!
I just want to remind you that personal opinion is a subjective perception of an event!
Never and everyone here writes that in the Land of the Soviets everything was butter; Many people have a desire to make an objective assessment of events.
You have not made a comparison of how many people here give one or another assessment of events, but have already written that some opinion here is "favorite", as if prevailing !!!
What does it mean?
You give your own, subjective, assessment of the participants in .....
In fact, the events that are indicated in the article .... THIS WAS, but there were many other things, MISCELLANEOUS!
BUT, everything is relative! Not for nothing, those Yankees indicated Svidomo that they live clearly better than in some other countries! And this is in response to the moaning of the skakuas that they feel bad, nobody loves them, GIVE, GIVE us everything at once .....
The truth is somewhere near!

[AU Ivanov.]

Good article. And then here many naively think that the Soviet means excellent. But somehow I will throw here real documents about the work of the GA in the 80s.

[helvetic]

Good afternoon. Of course, this is a popular site, but do you really want to go to the category of Latin with their "oscilloscope arrows"? If I wanted to really convey information, and not attract violent abuse in the comments, it would probably be worth refraining from the name, which contains an obvious emotional assessment.

[kalibr]

Quote: helvetic

Of course, this is a popular site.

That's it!

[sergo1914]

Quote: kalibr

You can write whatever you want. Before you is an official document reflecting the realities of that life. All data are given in the text. I didn't invent it. So it was and there was no getting away from it. Are you satisfied with the position of the ostrich? Well, let the head not be visible, the ass is sticking out anyway. And by the way, this is the legacy of the "collective farm" - visible rudeness. A little something wrong - immediately "surname", immediately "crap", mental retardation ... All this you demonstrate only the low level of culture of a typical "scoop". That is, old age has silvered you only on the outside, but what was inside did not turn you into silver.

Shpakovsky in his repertoire. D - moron. That is the definition. There is a group of people, sick people. We worry about them. Moderators, this is not an insult. This is universal grief. Dream - buffoons, shpakovsky ... et seter. Suddenly heal. What kind of titans thoughts we get for society. Just a lobotomy. No pain relief.

[Simargl]

On the one hand, a heart operation was performed, on the other ... 80th year, Novosibirsk ... No ultrasound - a real-time x-ray for a 5-year-old.
Almost always in hospitals all places are occupied.
You need to look for a good specialist.
At 9 years old, he spread his leg ... at the entrance there is one phone for 15 apartments, but not accessible - there is nobody there, the nearest payphone is torn off for a couple of years ... while they waited for an ambulance, the wound began to heal itself, probably ... in an ambulance injuries and a woman in childbirth ... of course, this is not entirely medicine, but the state of everything and everything around. Yes, the water on the 5th floor of the house wasn’t normal as long as I remember: there was always an open tap in the bathroom so that it would be typed in a thin stream ... Stakhanov / Kadievka.
Yes, there were cities where it was better. True, I was not there almost.

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: Dead Day

also on the "recharge" from the oligarchfrenia?

You are, to put it mildly, wrong. I think he's for "recharge" long ago established personal ties with the "historian writers" of enlightened Europe. And now he quietly has "copyright" from their programs, helping the barbarians.

[kalibr]

Quote: Mavrikiy

And now he quietly has "copyright" from their programs, helping the barbarians.

Expose! And you will have moral satisfaction. Give the UFSB phone number in the Penza region, or will you find it yourself on the Web?

[Buxlov]

Quote: Dead Day

and you, that one more ... "fruit" ... well, yes, the name says, you creature raised on our own money. the USSR raised you with a hoopoe, and you shit at the Parent

Familiar tactics ... Dirt pouring on the past to whitewash the current chaos of the capitalist paradise in Russia.!

[AU Ivanov.]

Dirt will not stick to dirt. But the truth must be known.

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: Dead Day

Vyacheslav Shpakovsky

and you, that one more ... "fruit" ... well, yes, the name says, you creature raised on our own money. You were raised by the USSR hoopoe, and you shit at the Parent, now you will certainly support "optimization"? here it is - optimization, all home. you're done ...

.Soviet Paradise.

better than the capitalist! Are you also on "recharge" from the oligarchfrenia?

This creativity is aimed at what would, against the background of the complete degradation of the "muddy present", finally wipe out bright and bright pastwhen they built and built.
The author operates with data of half a century ago and loses sight of the fact that after the war at that time only 18 years have passed, during which the period of restoration of destroyed cities and factories fell. It does not take into account the fact that more than 20 million people died, including a large number of medical workers, who also need time to restore their human resources. Shot courses will not work. I don’t know why the author is not interested in delving into the last years of tsarism and not comparing the “soviet” year 1962 with medical assistance to the population at least in 1912. Here and there half a century of time and the picture is already more contrasting, and not in favor of the monarch. It is interesting that by brandishing the certificate as a verdict to the system, the author overlooks what it calls "On the state and measures to improve medical care"- that is, the objective picture was reflected and measures were planned to improve... Much more interesting would be how things were in 1972, 10 years after the appearance of this certificate. I have no doubt that the changes were colossal and for the better. Against the background of the collapse of modern medicine, the liquidation of thousands of hospitals and clinics and tens of thousands of hospital beds, including infectious diseases, the reduction of medical staff as a result of "optimization", an article is fired about how bad it was in the "scoop". Frankly gives some sort of second series - "Zuleikha gets an enema."

[kalibr]

That is, you are interested in learning how things were in 1972, did I understand you correctly?

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: kalibr

That is, you are interested in learning how things were in 1972, did I understand you correctly?

Absolutely right. It would be nice to bring the data of this certificate with those indicators that developed in medical care as of 1972. Is it logical? I cannot make someone's opinion and form an unambiguous perception of the past with a negative bias, looking at the past exclusively through the TV series "Zuleikha ..." and other movie shit on the topic of "a hopeless and bloody past", since I have archival materials on my hands, namely letters from prisoners of "Sevzheldorlag" from 1941-42, who built a railway to Vorkuta and a bridge across the Vychegda river in the area of ​​Madmas-Mezhog, with their autobiographical data, articles and terms, which they indicated with their own hand, with a request to send them to the front for protection Homeland, and I will note, they wanted to defend the homeland that condemned them. There are all sorts of people there, who chopped people down with a sword, counter-revolutionaries and other "enemies of the people" from those whose lifestyle, according to their own words, did not correspond to the appearance and morality of a Soviet person, but they did not want to sit out in camps when Germany attacked the USSR. By the way, Solzhenitsyn deliberately did everything in order to get into the camp from the front line and sit there and thereby save his life. True, it is one, but some interpret it as they want and try to impose their "truth" on the majority, which is far from true.

[Pessimist22]

So it’s under Khrushchev, a large number of colleagues on the site know that he is a Trotskyist, which means that the government was Trotskyist, as I understand the comments of the people on the site (who lived under Stalin) reached its climax in development in 1953, and after the death of the leader began degradation and decline of development that ended in collapse. Publish data before 1953.

[codetalker]

That data will not be better. It must be understood that the brilliant leader Stalin was in his place in the hardest years for our country. And development really reached its climax, but there was a war ...

[kalibr]

Quote: Pessimist22

Publish data before 1953.

Do you really want this? Are you not afraid to be disappointed?

[210ox]

Personally, I’m not afraid. The country came out of a terrible war. And the restoration took quite a while.

[kalibr]

Then which year are you most interested in? "Orders for" poslevirus "are accepted"

[Pessimist22]

Hello! My comment is pure sarcasm! And so yes, I would like to see data from an earlier time, in order to know how good it was under Stalin.

[kalibr]

Quote: Pessimist22

to know how it was good under Stalin.

I promise to see it. I myself wonder ... The only question is what years to take. What would you personally be interested in?

[Pessimist22]

For example, I’m interested in how things were in the pre-war years, how Soviet people lived after 20 years of building socialism, in the countryside, away from the center. Although I read a lot and imagine how it was, I would like facts.

[kalibr]

Quote: Pessimist22

Although I read a lot and imagine how it was, I would like facts.

There will be an article about the peasants of the USSR for 1933 based on the materials of the newspaper PRAVDA. But after that there will be a break - the archives do not work.

[Buxlov]

Quote: Pessimist22

So it’s under Khrushchev, a large number of colleagues on the site know that he is a Trotskyist, which means that the government was Trotskyist, as I understand the comments of the people on the site (who lived under Stalin) reached its climax in development in 1953, and after the death of the leader began degradation and decline of development,

Even Mao Zedong said in plain text that the heroes of the "Tashkent front" seized power in the USSR after Stalin's death ...

And it’s not without reason that they are trying to pit us with China, and especially at that time ..

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: Pessimist22

Publish data before 1953. The USSR reached its climax in development in 1953, and after the death of the leader, degradation and decline of development began

Not certainly in that way. After the departure of Stalin, Beria and rearrangements in the apparatus of power, the colossus of the state moved by inertia. Launched programs and projects. Therefore, the peak is in time for the year 60-62. Much was instantly stopped and canceled, such as the mainland-Sakhalin tunnel, the northern latitudinal railway / railway, etc.
The USSR reached its climax in development in 1953 in terms of the development of spirituality and democracy (although then such terms were not used).
Publish data before 1953.And what do you want to see? After the Second World War, we solved other problems. Not raising and improving people's living standards, but the restoration of the country and Eastern Europe.

[apro]

The author again jerked ... and the title was pleasant ... refusal of hospitalization. And below it will bring an explanation. And everything will fall into place. If then it was done to improve. But now only to worsen the state of health.

[codetalker]

For those who are engaged in this field, it is no secret that the Russian healthcare system is the legal successor (which is obvious) of the Soviet system, inherited from it all the shortcomings. Some were aggravated, some were smoothed out. By historical standards, mass free medicine has appeared recently. And this is the merit of the Soviet government. But to bring it to an acceptable quality is our task.

[alekc75]

everything was so bad ???? author, can you live in vain then? It was necessary to immediately die and do not suffer !!

[Donald72]

alekc75 I understand that now you feel sick and you are already washing a rope for yourself.

[alekc75]

I'm good! and I am familiar with the medicine of that time — no need to blame everything on separate places in the USSR!

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: alekc75

everything was so bad ???? author, can you live in vain then? It was necessary to immediately die and do not suffer !!

Faith and grants do not allow the author: It’s a little awkward, there is still where. It reminds me of a satire from the Kukryniksy: A Western tourist photographs the contents of a garbage can.

[kalibr]

Quote: Mavrikiy

photographs the contents of the garbage tank.

How badly do you speak about the OK CPSU archive ...

[Dart2027]

It cannot be said that in the USSR it was only bad, success was a fact, but when you read some authors and commentators praising it as an earthly paradise, it becomes ridiculous.

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: Dart2027

The USSR was only bad, success was a fact, but when you read some authors and commentators praising it as an earthly paradise, it becomes ridiculous.

You will live in modern hell, and the Sahara desert will seem like an oasis, and only the USSR of the early 60s ..... a paradise of justice and goodness. After Stalin, the bureaucracy has not yet expanded and gained strength.

[Dart2027]

Quote: Mavrikiy

You will live in modern hell

I am in Russia and live. Problems have been and always will be, but hell is not necessary.

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: Dart2027

Problems have been and always will be, but about hell do not.

You must Fedya, you must. Juvenile justice, the Unified State Examination, the police, you won’t release a child into the yard without supervision, prostitution and blue-pink. Do you know about the USSR or tell the future? The comparison gives an idea of ​​the lost paradise with 3 varieties of mayonnaise and the presence of a real hell with 20 types of packaging of mayonnaise.

[Dart2027]

Quote: Mavrikiy

Do you know about the USSR or

It is known. There was no hell then, no now. 90th survived.

[Pilat2009]

Quote: Mavrikiy

Unified State Examination

Yes, you already got it with your USE. This is just an assessment of knowledge. If a person does not want to study, no USE will save. I got a certificate, go do whatever you want, life will teach. Moreover, the army.

[AU Ivanov.]

Live in Russia. I don’t watch hell, obviously we live no worse than before. Are you sure you live in Russia?

[helvetic]

The old song - "Who Lives Well in Russia" ... Naturally, for someone it is no worse than before. Especially if you don't engage in science. Scientists are a whole social stratum, practically thrown back into the 30th century by the last XNUMX years.

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

I don’t watch hell

There are a lot of things. Lack of glasses, dirty windows, young age .......

obviously we live no worse than before.

compared to what? 1913? What will we compare, the number of machines, the number of sausage varieties (I do not recommend comparing the quality )

[Thunderbolt]

Information on the condition and measures to improve medical services in the cities and working villages of the region (Appendix to paragraph 17, etc. 7. Minutes of the meeting of the Bureau of the CPSU OK from 14.01/16.03.1963 to XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX.

In fact, such protocols of party committees exist by year. And you need to consider them in dynamics ---- what it was possible to fix for the reporting period, and where else party control remains to be exercised. Such control existed everywhere, in all cities and villages, in all republics of the immense Union.
By the way, the figures given by the author are funny compared to the present. Since the USSR in those years was not built to enrich developers, it was simply that demography was a plus, and besides, the party was steadily developing the theme of improving people's life. admission to the factory --- hostel, worked and showed himself --- on, our dear Soviet man, the keys to the apartment.

[kalibr]

Quote: Thunderbolt

just demography went into plus

About it will also be!

[kalibr]

Quote: Thunderbolt

the figures given by the author are funny compared to modern times.

Do you have modern figures for the Penza region? However, now there is a website of the Ministry of Health, everything can be seen there ...

[Olgovich]

Quote: Thunderbolt

, but simply demography was a plus, and besides, the party was steadily developing the theme of improving people's life.

demography went to MINUSDEPOPULATION began in 1964 population and it is Russian, in the first place.

THE USSR-first country in Europe came to this "achievement". By the end of 1991, these "successes" of the party led to the outright extinction of the Russian-Russian Cross called.

It's just FACTS

Quote: Thunderbolt

the party has steadily developed the theme of improving people's life. admission to the factory --- hostel, worked and showed himself --- on, our dear Soviet man, the keys to the apartment.

And how did people all over the world live (and much better) without a party?

The apartment, by the way, is NOT YOUR, but State.

naked came a man in this world, naked and left without leaving anything to the children

[BAI]

leaving nothing to the children

We are watching the film (just in 1963) "Everything remains for the people."
When did children stop being human?

[your1970]

Quote: Thunderbolt

And it is necessary to consider them in dynamics ---- what has been fixed for the reporting period, and where party control remains to be exercised.

8 years they couldn’t finish building the hospitals .. Year-2-3 - before the control there wasn’t something ??? Just yet to come ???
The expression "long-term construction" was invented in the early USSR not even under Andropov ..

[Oleg Skvortsov]

Why this article? Again slops on the USSR? I was born and raised in the Soviet Union. I encountered medicine for the first time in 1978, when the appendix was removed. The main thing then - that even in the seediest village or town or aul, it was possible to get medical assistance - there were feldsher-obstetric stations, and with them ambulances. And not as it is now - for the entire area of ​​200 thousand people - two ambulances - survive as you want

[Buxlov]

Quote: Oleg Skvortsov

Why this article? Again slops on the USSR?

They are afraid of the restoration of the USSR, but everything is going to this ...

[icelord]

You will come to us to restore the USSR I am the first to meet with a gun

[Amateur]

So some readers of VO write that there were no epidemics in the USSR,

In 1970, a significant part of the USSR was covered by the epidemic of cholera of the El Tor biotype. According to the most common version, it was brought into the territory of the Caspian region from Iran, .... However, now it was not just about laboratory samples, but about dozens, then hundreds, later thousands of cases and the so-called vibratory carriers. ... Observers did not replace inpatient medical facilities, but supplemented them - served to temporarily isolate those who did not have obvious signs of the disease, but hypothetically could be the carrier of cholera vibrio due to their presence in the infected area. During the epidemic of 1970 throughout the USSR, about 180 thousand people passed through the observation. ...
Quantity deaths amounted to less than 1% of the total number of cases. Perhaps this is why for a very large number of former Soviet citizens of the older generation, the cholera epidemic of 1970 passed completely unnoticed, not deposited in memory.

(https://www.sovsekretno.ru/articles/kholernoe-leto-1970-goda/)
Mr. Shpakovsky, pulling quotes, once again tries to prove that in the USSR everything was absolutely bad. This is not true.
Cholera is a much more dangerous disease than the current "korovaminus", but the then authorities did not advertise on TV, did not promise to "pay salaries in full" and did not lock people home, but took real and effective measures to 100% quarantine all persons who were caught to contaminated areas, effective methods of disinfection and treatment.

[kalibr]

Quote: Amateur

everything was bad

Is the article talking about "everything"?

[1536]

From the above document (if, of course, this is really a document from the archive, since there are no references to the fund, or to the number of the archive file), we can say the following:
1st. Money for health care was released, hospitals were built, clinics worked, people were treated, women even managed to give birth in 1963 (see the first part of the text).
2nd. Money was poorly mastered (I couldn’t give a cottage to myself for some way, or what kind of temple should be taxed in my native neighborhood), there weren’t enough qualified doctors, sanitary standards were not respected, there weren’t enough medicines or they arrived intermittently ..., further in the text.
And now the conclusions:
1. Subtract the number 1963 from 1945. We get 18. So many years have passed since the end of World War II. Yes, the Penza region was not occupied by the Germans and worked as a rear base, including as a hospital for thousands and thousands of wounded Soviet soldiers and commanders, saving their lives after terrible wounds at the front. After the Germans were driven to the West, the Penza region (attention!) Began to help ... Ukraine, an industry whose agriculture was destroyed during the German occupation.
2. "Disadvantages", of course, I really don't want to discuss. They follow from the conclusions to the first part, since the immensity cannot be grasped, the country continued to restore the national economy after the war, there were not enough people, because 27 million people died in those terrible years and 1963 was the first year of the "demographic hole", the echo of the war. (“Thanks” to our “beloved” Germans should be conveyed from the rostrum of the Bundestag!) But even the fact that the unsolved professional issues of modern medicine at that time are being raised already suggests that adequate and competent people worked in the Ministry of Health. Moreover, the cited document, apparently, was not even "for official use", and even more so, did not have the stamp "Secret". Why hide the obvious facts?
Thus, all the work to recover from the terrible war, while helping other regions of the USSR, everything was aimed at development, everything went forward, as the figures say. At the same time, it was possible with a sinking heart to follow the launches of Soviet spaceships, increase the country's defense, provide people with housing, medical care, and just live quietly, work, raise children, without thinking about whether you will have work tomorrow, money for food, and whether it will be possible for you to leave the house.

[kalibr]

Quote: 1536

From the above document (unless, of course, this is really a document from the archive, because there are no links to the fund, or to the number of the archive file)

But this you did not see. Yes? “Information on the state and measures to improve medical services in the cities and working villages of the region (Appendix to paragraph 17, etc. 7. Minutes of the meeting of the Bureau of the CPSU OK from January 14.01 to March 16.03.1963, 5893. F. 1. Op. 12. Unit. XNUMX. Penza Industrial Regional Committee of the CPSU. Special Sector). Well, why, why do seemingly literate people read so inattentively? Although, on the other hand, this is the first adequate comment.

[Krasnodar]

Quote: 1536

At the same time, it was possible with a sinking heart to follow the launches of Soviet spacecraft, increase the country's defense, provide people with housing, medical care, and just live quietly, work, raise children, without thinking about whether you will have work tomorrow, money for food, and whether it will be possible for you to leave the house.

My grandfather, a milling machine operator, joined the party in 1943 at the front, where he fled as a volunteer, seeing missile launches under the Time program, he said:
Bastards! How much money they spend ...
He died a communist in Russia.

[oracul]

Idiocy lies in the fact that the author takes a document that reflects the real state of affairs and draws a negative conclusion: here it is "Soviet paradise". First, this is a document from the party archives. Secondly, he is true and this is a plus for the regional leadership. Thirdly, only 17 years have passed since the devastating war with dire consequences. Think about it - only seventeen years old. The main resources, both financial, material and human, and they were lacking in the wildest way, were directed to the territories most affected by the war. Fourth, it would not hurt to get acquainted more closely with the style of writing such documents. The emphasis has always been on revealing flaws, so the positive part is usually small in volume. In public speeches, however, they spoke more about positive aspects; by the way, an excessive increase in the volume of documents was not allowed.

[Million]

Look at the name of the author. Such rarely write something good about the USSR.

[svp67]

Quote: Million

Look at the name of the author. Such rarely write something good about the USSR.

Do you understand your shame about your last name? I think no. Why blame others for this? They don’t choose parents ... In the history of the USSR there were people with similar surnames, the same Malinovskys and they did a lot for that country

[Million]

They don’t choose parents, genes decide a lot. The author took a different path than, for example, Malinovsky

[svp67]

Quote: Million

They don’t choose parents, genes decide a lot. The author took a different path than, for example, Malinovsky

Well, wait, just that you blamed all the people with similar last names, do you consider yourself right in this? You may not agree with the opinion of the author, but why go over to the personality? By the way, there was another person with a similar surname - Rokossovsky, you and his memory are now very offended.

[Million]

You do not put an author with such personalities as Rokossovsky. Do not rush to extremes. Even Perelman was remembered. I did not write about "all".
Not every Muslim terrorist, but every Muslim terrorist (c)

[svp67]

Quote: Million

.Do not rush to extremes

No, do not confuse me with yourself, you rushed to such an extreme, we will blame everyone with "similar surnames"

[Million]

Are you also one of those who are not expected in the homeland of their ancestors?

[svp67]

Quote: Million

Are you also one of those who are not expected in the homeland of their ancestors?

I am in the homeland of my ancestors ... and here they are waiting for me

[your1970]

Quote: Million

Not every Muslim terrorist, but every Muslim terrorist(C)

Did you blurt out abstractly now?
Or give you examples of Orthodox terrorists?
Is Breivik a Muslim?

[fuxila]

Or give you examples of Orthodox terrorists?
Is Breivik a Muslim?

What does Breivik have to do with the Orthodox? If you want to prove that there are terrorists among the Orthodox, then give a specific example, not that member of the Masonic lodge ...

[your1970]

Quote: fuxila

Or give you examples of Orthodox terrorists?
Is Breivik a Muslim?

What does Breivik have to do with the Orthodox? If you want to prove that there are terrorists among the Orthodox, then give a specific example, not that member of the Masonic lodge ...

The entire list of the Socialist Revolutionary Organization, for example ... are all Muslims?

During the period of the First Russian Revolution and until 1917, during the acts of terrorism against the authorities and expropriations, for example, about 5000 absolutely strangers died ... did Muslims also throw bombs?

In the jungle of red and white terror I don’t even want to go deeper - there were all Nazis and religions, including Buddhists

The militants did not have Ukrainians in Chechnya ??? !!!

[fuxila]

During the period of the First Russian Revolution and until 1917, during the acts of terrorism against the authorities and expropriations, for example, about 5000 absolutely strangers died ... did Muslims also throw bombs?

You are substituting concepts. When were Orthodox terrorists shouting "Christ the Great" throwing bombs, or did the people tied with bombs blow up people? Do you want to say that the revolutionary terrorists who killed Russian policemen, officers, officials, did it for the glory of the Orthodox faith, as is customary among Islamic terrorists to kill with shouts of "Allahu Akbar"? But this is nonsense !!!

[your1970]

Quote: fuxila

You are replacing concepts.

You are replacing concepts. You are trying to link terrorism to specific ideas / religion / nation .....
Terrorism is the creation of an atmosphere of fear among the population. And it does not matter at all - what is the terrorist’s ultimate goal, who commits him, and what are his ideas and religion ....
At the time of the terrorist attack, the goal is one- to scare the population

[fuxila]

Why are you telling me what terror is and why it is being perpetrated? Is there any talk about this? You wrote about Orthodox terrorists, but I didn’t hear about such rumors and asked for facts, and you answered me about revolutionaries and Bandera-Uniates ... The terror is carried out in the name of an idea / religion / nation: Socialist-Revolutionaries killed in the name of the socialist idea, Islamic terrorists kill in the name of religion, Bandera carried out their terror in the name of the Ukrainian nation, and they simply kill maniacs, not terrorists. By analogy, some Orthodox terrorists should kill in the name of the Orthodox faith, but you did not bring evidence ...

[your1970]

Quote: fuxila

By analogy, some Orthodox terrorists should kill in the name of the Orthodox faith, but you did not bring evidence ...

And that was .... The "Black Hundred" staged pogroms in the name of the Orthodox faith with banners and icons ... "Kill the Jews - save Russia !!" ... Wasn't that?

Completely in the world and now terrorist NOT Muslim parties and organizations.
Just recently, they quieted down a bit and stopped shooting / detonating the IRA and the Basques

[fuxila]

The militants did not have Ukrainians in Chechnya ??? !!!

Do you think the Uniate militants from UNA-UNSO have fought on the Wahhabi side for the purity of the Orthodox faith?

[Million]

Actually, I used this phrase in a different context.
But if it really touches you like that, then compare the quantitative ratio of Muslim and Orthodox terrorists, I think this will cool the boiling mind a little)
PS. The first part of the phrase can also be highlighted

[Aviator_]

the same Malinovskys and they did a lot for that country

Are you talking about Marshal Rodion Yakovlevich Malinovsky (1898-1967) or about Roman Vatslovich Malinovsky, an agent of the tsarist secret police, State Duma deputy from the RSDLP (1876-1918)?

[svp67]

Quote: Aviator_

Are you talking about

I know about both, but you yourself answer the question of which of them worked productively for the USSR and get an answer.

[Krasnodar]

Quote: Million

Look at the name of the author. Such rarely write something good about the USSR.

He is a Slav. Unlike the lion's share of the theorists of communism and socialism. Which very quickly removed from practice. And the Soviet Union collapsed, too, indigenous, not Middle Eastern

[Million]

Only for some reason the "Middle East"

[Krasnodar]

For instance? In the government of the Russian Federation, I don’t remember anyone except Dvorkovich, who has been there for a long time. Of the Governors - was Roizman in Yekaterinburg, EMNIP, very distant from the EP, and in prosecutors, FSSP, police and others - completely radical As in the administration. Maybe I don’t know?

[helvetic]

Is this one of those "indigenous" that did not pronounce half of the alphabet (or included the fricative "g" in it), the son of a citizen with a speaking surname Gopkalo? Or a native of Guria Shevardnadze?

[Krasnodar]

Not from the title ones.

[1536]

Quote: kalibr

Quote: 1536

From the above document (unless, of course, this is really a document from the archive, because there are no links to the fund, or to the number of the archive file)

But this you did not see. Yes? “Information on the state and measures to improve medical services in the cities and working villages of the region (Appendix to paragraph 17, etc. 7. Minutes of the meeting of the Bureau of the CPSU OK from January 14.01 to March 16.03.1963, 5893. F. 1. Op. 12. Unit. XNUMX. Penza Industrial Regional Committee of the CPSU. Special Sector). Well, why, why do seemingly literate people read so inattentively?

Dear, because, as you put it, "literate people" have it that references to literature and sources are printed either at the end of the article, or marked with a footnote directly in the text. Such an option as yours is also possible, but computer typing allows you to highlight important places in the text with a special font configuration, for example, in italicswhat you did not do. But in general, you're right, I'm sorry, I really missed the link to the document, so I read it fluently. However, this does not change the essence of my comment!

[sniperino]

Quote: 1536

among "literate people", it is assumed that references to literature and sources are printed either at the end of the article, or marked with a footnote directly in the text.

And how many of these "literate people" among the authors have you met at VO? Is it possible to insert an endnote into the text? I saw here in the text of articles only strange (not to say even worse) hyperlinks, for some reason throwing you out when you click on the corresponding section of the site (weapons, history, etc.).

[helvetic]

Maxim from a literate person about the end (but not the end) footnote ...

[sniperino]

Quote: helvetic

Maxim from a literate person about the end (but not the end) footnote ..

Uryl! Such an epic failure ... I’ll give up the scribble, I’ll go to school for something, maybe the burning ashamed will let a little ...

[kalibr]

Quote: 1536

However, this does not change the essence of my comment!

So I wrote - the first thought comment.

[DNS-a42]

Where is Russian medicine going:

The growth of recent years is due to FAPs and outpatient clinics.

[AU Ivanov.]

And what did you mean by that? It is likely that many diseases that required prolonged hospitalization are now treated on an outpatient basis? And true, after minimally invasive laparoscopic operations, a long stay in the hospital is not required.

[DNS-a42]

Quote: AU Ivanov.

It is likely that many diseases that required prolonged hospitalization are now treated on an outpatient basis?

Since the need for such a number of hospitals has now disappeared, then the incidence should decline, right?

"The Accounts Chamber notes that the 'optimization' of healthcare has led to a decrease in the availability of medical care and a slight increase in the incidence."

Or maybe everything is much simpler? The state, "optimizing" medicine, simply squeezes citizens into the paid medical sector.

Well, a few results:

Quote: AU Ivanov.

A long hospital stay is not required.

Yeah, the coronavirus won't let you lie.

[Svarog]

One would like to say: good regretted to the Soviet paradise, where everything was for the good of man!

Shpakovsky, it's so simple, when the USSR was the population was growing, thereby showing that people are happy with everything and they are ready to give birth, and with your "paradise capitalism" the population only decreases, as everything is "optimized" and grabbed ..
Therefore, no matter how much you pour mud over the USSR, but you cannot pour it on, literally all objective indicators are in favor of the USSR. From demography to economics ..

He was already closing the folder when the eye habitually snatched out another report on the marriage at work. The Bureau of the OK CPSU reported (the same document, p. 322) that at the Penza diesel plant a complaint is received for every sixth diesel engine released, but the situation cannot be rectified!

And now that marriage does not produce? Yes, a bunch of examples. Lada Vesta, a new car, a week after buying got on the highway ...

You have good articles, why do you certainly need to blame the past?

[AU Ivanov.]

He does not hayut, he writes the truth. But the truth is it is different and is sweet and bitter. You need to know both this and this. Roughly speaking: one needs to know not only about the exploit of Panfilov’s, but also how the party and Soviet leadership from besieged Moscow in panic were attacking in October 1941. Otherwise, the truth will be neutered.

[kalibr]

Quote: Svarog

Therefore, no matter how much you pour mud over the USSR, but you cannot pour it on, literally all objective indicators are in favor of the USSR.

But what is such a good USSR collapsed in the 91st? Well, everything is in favor, but the bull is all ...

[Ros 56]

Stop lying, in all my life I have never heard that a person, in the presence of evidence, was refused hospitalization. There are no places in their area, they would be sent to a neighboring or region.
Well, one must hate the country in such a way, where a possible special case, pass off as reality. Well chantrap liberoid, well, storytellers.

[pogis]

If necessary, they will call a helicopter!

[pogis]

The article reminded a joke about the average temperature in a hospital.

[Reptiloid]

Quote: pogis

If necessary, they will call a helicopter!

As a child in the Khabarovsk Territory, I know, I remember that in the event of a deterioration in health ---- an instant helicopter to the district center was the norm.
Especially watched the children and women in the situation. The doctor himself occasionally flew in with an examination.
There was a hospital in the district center, but if necessary ---- the plane to Khabarovsk was taken free of charge to medical directions, and they also gave a health worker. It was so small with me. It seemed like an adult ticket cost about 100 rubles

[fuxila]

Quote: Reptiloid

As a child in the Khabarovsk Territory, I know, I remember that in the event of a deterioration in health ---- an instant helicopter to the district center was the norm.

It really was! Himself from the Khabarovsk Territory and to us, if necessary, helicopters landed at the stadium in the center of the village. But I still remember the dentists with a shudder ... I don’t know why, but the Union could not do normal painkillers (maybe they were, but not for everyone), which is why during the treatment I was often kept by my mother and a nurse, and the fillings did not last long. As I was later explained, the dentists also had a plan that had to be implemented ...

[Reptiloid]

I left there at the age of 6 with a mouth full of huge teeth ---- which is strange, still the North ...... Somehow the teeth changed, but the doctor was not needed soon ....
In general, the topic of nutrition is not interesting ...... like, few fruits and vegetables, meat, fish ---- a lot, excessively ...... bananas, pineapples ---- there were. The locals did not eat them.

Quote: fuxila

Quote: Reptiloid

As a child in the Khabarovsk Territory, I know, I remember that in the event of a deterioration in health ---- an instant helicopter to the district center was the norm.

It really was! Himself from the Khabarovsk Territory and to us, if necessary, helicopters landed at the stadium in the center of the village. But I still remember the dentists with a shudder ... I don’t know why, but the Union could not do normal painkillers (maybe they were, but not for everyone), which is why during the treatment I was often kept by my mother and a nurse, and the fillings did not last long. As I was later explained, the dentists also had a plan that had to be implemented ...

[Aviator_]

Well, you have to hate the country like that

It is with him forever

[kalibr]

Quote: Ros 56

where is a possible special case, pass off as reality.

A special case is reported in the OK CPSU?

[Ros 56]

Everything was reported to the regional committee of the CPSU, only after such messages and disassemblies after them, some people put a party card on the table and no longer rose above the janitor in the profession, with rare exceptions.

[your1970]

Quote: Ros 56

Everything was reported to the regional committee of the CPSU, only after such messages and disassemblies after them, some people put a party card on the table and no longer rose above the janitor in the profession, with rare exceptions.

Hospitals were not completed 8 years..... many oblast commanders in the janitors gone?

[Million]

Despicable article. I do not want to comment

[Hikaro]

Dear Vyacheslav! The message of your article is not correct! The information from the archive, submitted by you, of course, does not cause doubts, but the generalization and conclusions that you draw, without a general picture of the political and economic situation in the USSR in 1963, is completely counterproductive! Penza region of the RSFSR, compare its economic indicators and the volume of investment, in comparison with the same Baltic or Transcaucasia! Read the memoirs of Mikhail Solomentsev of the Pre-Council of Ministers of the RSFSR, which shows an approximate approach to the allocation of funds from the Union budget to the RSFSR! In the Baltics, for example, at that moment the situation with hospitals and medical personnel was much better! But this means that "free" medicine in the USSR was of poor quality !! Absolutely wrong conclusion! The planned economy had its drawbacks, but the development went on !!! Hospitals were under construction !! people were treated !!! I will say more in Latvia in Riga, many city hospitals were liquidated, because with the outflow of the population, their number turned out to be excessive !! And the reception of patients is still carried out in the buildings of the remaining hospitals built in the USSR !!! Not a single hospital was built during independence !! This is a small example of those huge capital investments in the medical field in the USSR !!!

[kalibr]

Why are we still not living in the USSR?

[Alecsandr]

Thanks to you and people like you

[kalibr]

Quote: Alecsandr

Thanks to you and people like you

Oh really? Lecturer of the RK KPSS and OK Komsomol, associate professor of the history of the CPSU, is to blame for its collapse? You seriously hold me for (the forbidden word in VO), which saws the branch on which he sits and cuts the hen, the laying hen of golden eggs. Special polyclinic, where boors were not allowed. 25 p. for each "round" table and 10 p. for every lecture on decaying capitalism, not counting 320 rubles. But they also asked ... my eyes had to burn, the arguments should be logical, the conviction in the triumph of Lenin's ideas was absolute. Not for fear, for conscience they worked ... And then bang - and we were told that we were no longer needed. We didn’t say ... but why not go where to you in the Kremlin. We are from the Kremlin ... So I would be glad to say that I had a hand in the collapse of the "collective farm", but alas, I was among its most ardent defenders. The only justification for this is that ... did not know much. For example, I was not allowed to know this document. "Off topic research !!

[Alecsandr]

Don't be cunning. I also found and lived at this time. And I also saw many shortcomings of the ruling regime. Namely, the "ruling regime" But, nevertheless, I considered the regime more or less favorable for the people. What can not be said about our time.

[kalibr]

Quote: Alecsandr

more or less favorable for the people

Then what people did not hold out for him in the 91st? And what is guile? In what they wrote to you that smart people do not cut chicken laying golden eggs?

[kalibr]

Hikaro (Oleg) Write an article better, taking into account all your considerations. I am sure that the administration of VO will only be for!

[tatra]

The enemies of the Communists do not make the slightest demands either on the Romanovs or on themselves, but they make the highest demands on the Bolshevik Communists, reaching the point of complete absurdity, and they always tear out their common only that which is beneficial to them, and expose this as common in information war against their country and people. Now, when it comes to pensions in the USSR, they climb with 12-20 ruble pensions, if about housing in the USSR, they climb with communal apartments and barracks.
The Russian Empire ranked first in the world in terms of the number of people infected with infectious diseases. And the communists have done a tremendous job to eliminate this. BUT here the author of the article with "righteous anger" is trying to prove that the communists did nothing to eliminate the mass epidemics of infectious diseases.

[AU Ivanov.]

Progress, respected tatra, technological progress, has said its weighty word both in electrification with mechanization and in medicine. The Communists should not attribute these achievements. And then, by analogy, Putin will have to attribute merit to the development of mobile communications in the country and the IT industry.

[tatra]

Ha, something in YOUR high-paying job, manic critics of the USSR, not that no progress is being observed, but a continuous degradation in EVERYTHING compared to the USSR. That is why, if the Soviet communists and their supporters have always been proud and proud of their achievements in work, then 30 years after you captured the USSR, you cowardly dump the responsibility for the results of your work on them, whine in chorus "but we have nothing to do with it, this is in the USSR was, we are still disentangling. "

[Amateur]

The Communists should not attribute these achievements.

In your opinion, did the unfinished Trotskyites from the underground do it?
And to compare state programs for the development of medicine with completely private investments in mobile communications - either from misunderstanding, or another attempt to cheat.

[rocket757]

If you take to "educate" .... someone, it will be kind to cover the topic from all sides! And this is just the same denunciation to the Land of the Soviets ...

[Reptiloid]

Greetings Victor! Scolding medicine and institutions under the USSR is generally pointless.
We must start with the fact that according to the census of the Republic of Ingushetia in 1898, the average life expectancy was for men and about 30 years for women, with a slight difference. That says it all!

[rocket757]

Greetings Dmitry
Let's be objective, they just scribble denunciations.
It is hoped that the facts that they withstand, and a large number of different events, will prove to many not smart, not bothering with a full-fledged analysis of the situation and who have skipped the subject history or studying according to the current, underachievers, will take it all at face value!
It’s just a manipulation, but by a simple slap.
They do not need to answer for the "market", therefore they frolic as they want, because they can.

[Reptiloid]

The most important fact, Victor, is an increase in life expectancy. It was under Stalin. Others have written about population growth here. But it is worth remembering that before the revolution, the same peasants as ---- hospitalized or not? Would you like to know? Something I have doubts about even requests for hospitalization ....

[AU Ivanov.]

At the end of the 19th century, peasants were already hospitalized - a network of zemstvo hospitals in the country was created. Dee and google, but ye shall see:
“Under Nicholas II, public health care really became public, which was then continued and improved under Soviet rule.

In Russia, a system of district doctors, which had no analogues in the world, was created and a three-tier structure of medical care for the population was formed: a medical station, county and provincial hospital. Treatment at these medical facilities was free.

The coverage of the population with medical care was rapidly expanding: if in 1901 it received 49 million people, then in 1907 - 69 million, in 1910 - 86 million and in 1913 - 98 million. This led to a decrease in the total mortality rate from 29.4 per thousand inhabitants in 1906-1911 to 25 in 1912 "

[Reptiloid]

Googling later.
Now what can I say — somehow I can’t remember the hospitals and treatment of ordinary people by the classics. And the classics ---- this is our everything, this is the mirror of life. That's about women with low social ---- mentioned, about injuries, about maps and binges ---- mentioned, but about hospitals --- not to remember ....
I also immediately recall ---- artist Perov, critic Belinsky, Chekhov A.P. Princess Tarakanova ---- died of tuberculosis. Foreign ---- Kafka, Aubrey Beardsley.
Medicine before the revolution as a result of the 1MV was developed, but this is rather not due to statehood, but rather the patriotism and dedication of doctors and scientists who were not even included in the officer councils at the beginning of the 1MV.

[AU Ivanov.]

Chekhov, the story "Jumping" Just about the dedication of a doctor. Chekhov himself was a district doctor, that is, he worked in the lower structures of health care.
Tuberculosis is now a serious threat, mortality from it is higher than from covid, although it also has a vaccine and therapy.

[Aviator_]

Chekhov, already a well-known writer, did a lot to fight cholera in Lopasne (the Moscow Region, now the district center of Chekhov). This is in Chekhov’s MSS, his orders and instructions, as a physician.

[AU Ivanov.]

What are we surprised at? A doctor is as much a defender as a soldier. Both this and this risk their own lives.

[Reptiloid]

Quote: Aviator_

Chekhov, already a well-known writer, did a lot to fight cholera in Lopasne (the Moscow Region, now the district center of Chekhov). This is in Chekhov’s MSS, his orders and instructions, as a physician.

I drove Chekhov while traveling by bus from Moscow to Aleksin. Speak, Sergey, was there cholera? And there is nothing to say about it.

[Aviator_]

The book is lying at work, a volume from the complete works, where his letters and other papers are collected, including on medical activities. Found in an old cabinet when repairing an office. Cancel quarantine, I will give the exact link. Then I found Lenin’s PSS of the 1927 edition - almost lifetime! This is probably from the party committee of the institute.

[Reptiloid]

Quote: Aviator_

The book is lying at work, a volume from the complete works, where his letters and other papers are collected, including on medical activities. Found in an old cabinet when repairing an office. Cancel quarantine, I will give the exact link. Then I found Lenin’s PSS of the 1927 edition - almost lifetime! This is probably from the party committee of the institute.

wonderful finds! Envious!

[Reptiloid]

So this increase in mortality occurred in the 90s, as well as diseases. Since those patients were no longer relocated from communal apartments and there was no such treatment as in the USSR.

Quote: AU Ivanov.

Chekhov, the story "Jumping" Just about the dedication of a doctor. Chekhov himself was a district doctor, that is, he worked in the lower structures of health care.
Tuberculosis is now a serious threat, mortality from it is higher than from covid, although it also has a vaccine and therapy.

[rocket757]

What is characteristic, the Soviet Government did not destroy what really WAS IMPORTANT, NEEDED for the population of the country, but developed and improved!
What does this mean?
No fools were at the head of the country! Quite responsible, adequate people!

[Teller]

Quote: Reptiloid

Scolding medicine and institutions under the USSR is generally pointless.
We must start with the fact that according to the census of the Republic of Ingushetia in 1898, the average life expectancy was for men and about 30 years for women, with a slight difference. That says it all!

Ignorance poverty, etc. That's what the Tsarist Empire and then the February bourgeois revolution left to the Bolsheviks ....
The USSR left the country to its present day that is able to produce everything from needles to orbital stations with "Buran" and so on. And where is everyone?

Quote: rocket757

Let's be objective, they just scribble denunciations.
It is hoped that the facts that they withstand, and a large number of different events, will prove to many not smart, not bothering with a full-fledged analysis of the situation and who have skipped the subject history or studying according to the current, underachievers, will take it all at face value!

That's what the calculation and the system of suppressing the memory of the people ..

Quote: rocket757

They do not need to answer for the "market", therefore they frolic as they want, because they can.

The main thing is to capture the media, and then at least arrange something ..

[Reptiloid]

There is no escape from the facts. You just need to know them. And I also recall, because there was already a conversation on a related topic .... maybe a year ago?
Under the king, women had no concept of maternity leave. It was the Bolsheviks who introduced. And increased. Immediately infant mortality began to decline. And nursery gardens. And milk kitchens.

[Teller]

Quote: Reptiloid

There is no escape from the facts. You just need to know them. And I also recall, because there was already a conversation on a related topic .... maybe a year ago?
Under the king, women had no concept of maternity leave. It was the Bolsheviks who introduced. And increased. Immediately infant mortality began to decline. And nursery gardens. And milk kitchens.

And most importantly, "The fight against illiteracy and street children" This is how it all began, people believed and the result was ..
Now everything is being driven on the contrary ..

[Reptiloid]

........the fight against illiteracy and street children .......

eeeee, no, dear, they did not fight with homeless children, but with homelessness, as a phenomenon. And medicine, and improving the health of the nation ---- it was all decided by the Soviet government. Moreover, when in the 20s everything was not enough, and they began to build stadiums. When the king was not a single one.

[Aviator_]

The term "maternity leave" itself says that it was adopted at the beginning of Soviet power, then only the very first decisions were made out as "decrees" - the decree on Peace, the decree on the Earth

[Reptiloid]

Quote: Aviator_

The term "maternity leave" itself says that it was adopted at the beginning of Soviet power, then only the very first decisions were made out as "decrees" - the decree on Peace, the decree on the Earth

well yes! That's right, Sergey! Immediately upon the establishment of Soviet power! When the king was not a day!

[Phil77]

Quote: Reptiloid

Under the king, women had no concept of maternity leave. It was the Bolsheviks who introduced.

If you are interested in the history of this issue * on a global * scale, then the pioneers of maternity leave were the French, and this event happened in 1907. An 8-week vacation. But this is so, purely from history.

[rocket757]

The main thing for them is to correct the "brains" of the younger generation as they need it! And here they will not be limited in means and methods.
We are the old, Soviet, outgoing generation ... we can still teach, teach young people who have this opportunity, and so, we are just former, basically.
This is our last frontier, which I really do not want to leave to anyone!

[Reptiloid]

Quote: rocket757

The main thing for them is to correct the "brains" of the younger generation as they need it! And here they will not be limited in means and methods! ..........

Well, yes, that's it, Victor! mess up brains Zuleiks, Matildas , admirals ....... no matter how much reckoning with the realities of that life. How that was. So liberal fantasies, who are what much ...

[AU Ivanov.]

Orbital stations with Burans did. But with cars, household appliances, clothes, shoes, food, there was, sorry, an ass.

[Reptiloid]

And what, went bare, barefoot?
You better remember what you wanted, other styles, other colors (color gamut). That is, a certain level of property was achieved and then it was not just furniture, but more interesting.
And remember that under the tsar the workers had a shift-work sleep on a workbench and several families with children in the same rented room

[AU Ivanov.]

And before, and generally in the caves, they lived and wore loincloths. It is necessary to compare countries modern to each other. What the same Finns wore and what we wore.
My great-grandfather was a train engine driver, depot Petersburg, never a bourgeoisie. I could rent an apartment for my salary, not in the most chic area, of course, and even afford the services of a maid - a housekeeper who comes. He was a different working class, was bring-bring, and there was an elite.

[Reptiloid]

So you can rent an apartment, and rented, if it were not for socialism.
If there were no these apartments, they would not think of rags, but of housing.

Quote: AU Ivanov.

And before, and generally in the caves, they lived and wore loincloths. It is necessary to compare countries modern to each other. What the same Finns wore and what we wore.
My great-grandfather was a train engine driver, depot Petersburg, never a bourgeoisie. I could rent an apartment for my salary, not in the most chic area, of course, and even afford the services of a maid - a housekeeper who comes. He was a different working class, was bring-bring, and there was an elite.

[chenia]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

and there was an elite.

By the way, an indicator of the level of industrialization. A remarkable and highly paid (and add a rare) locksmith of the time, in the 70s, they could take except that they clean the workshop. And the engineers of the 40s received, received much more (relatively) than in the 80s.
You can’t compare like that, otherwise it will turn out that the Soviet worker who had a car of the 70s was richer than the princes at the beginning of the XNUMXth century.

[rocket757]

Cars, yes, I wanted to, but not everyone could .... although, who really wanted to, they bought, BUT, public transport was well developed. Cheap, accessible to everyone.
Household appliances, the same one who really wanted, he had.
Clothes, shoes, something naked, in rags, I haven’t seen anywhere ... where I had to be decently dressed !!! In the field, in the barn ... they themselves must understand, in a sweatshirt, in galoshes, boots, it’s just more convenient there.
FOOD .... not just not starving, the supply was getting better and better. I’m not talking about the quality of food products.
Of course, I remember the anecdote about the "PRINCIPLE" store, which has everything! And I remember the coupon system, when we had very lean years !!!
I have a lot to remember, I have traveled ALL THE COUNTRY, on duty. And everywhere people could live exactly as they aspired to it!
I will not list all the nishtyaks that we received from our state for decent and responsible work, they simply were.
In general, on the scales of history or our attitude to the past, the advantages of the Socialist state outweigh all its shortcomings.
But this is a personal perception. The only way.

[Reptiloid]

Victor, and someone bought apartments, who needed it rather, there were housing cooperatives and there were never any deceived equity holders.

[rocket757]

About free housing, there’s nothing to talk about, because there’s nothing to compare with.
Yes, the lines were long, someone did not choke on and waited, waited, waited, while others got a job at a house-building plant, at youth construction projects and the like, and GOT HOUSING much faster than others!
It was more difficult in the village, but they were also built, who didn’t carelessly bitter, but worked and achieved their goals! It depended on the person how he would live!

[AU Ivanov.]

Tell the residents of St. Petersburg communal apartments, and from St. Petersburg there were 30 percent of the total population how quickly you could buy a cooperative.

[Reptiloid]

Quote: AU Ivanov.

Tell the residents of St. Petersburg communal apartments, and from St. Petersburg there were 30 percent of the total population how quickly you could buy a cooperative.

And I’ll say so ---- they told who how. First, it was necessary to the general line in the executive committee, to provide documents to all. Put. Then correspond with a general cooperative And then, they transferred from there to cooperatives at enterprises or WWII Veterans or somehow due to illness. A year or two. Fast or not? This is not counting those in the areas of the COP, Far East

[AU Ivanov.]

Both my grandfather and grandmother are veterans: my grandmother is a military doctor and my grandfather is a pilot. Order bearers. So: they got a separate apartment in 2005, on the occasion of the 60th anniversary of the Victory. Before that, they lived in a communal apartment. Yes, the room was very large, which is why they were simply not put on the queue, but in addition to them, 11 more families lived in the apartment. Not everything was so simple. And I returned to St. Petersburg and right there, within a week I bought an apartment, the benefit was money. Without any executive committees or queues.

[AU Ivanov.]

Is it when this food supply got better and better? Even I, a schoolboy in the 70s, remember that every year the supply got worse and worse. If in the early seventies "Dog's Joy" was sometimes brought into the store (this is such a sausage made from meat processing waste), then in the early 80s it was gone. And the older generation said that in the 50s, even in the shops of the regional center there was everything, well, or almost everything, including caviar and crabs.

[rocket757]

I can remember from the beginning of 70 to ...
It was, the city of Volzhsky, for example, when the VHK was built, a huge chemical complex, there were a lot of things in stores, i.e. supply of 1 cat. Then, the city was transferred to 2 cat. and it got worse, BUT, ALL ENTERPRISES had their own shops and a food ordering system, i.e. refrigerator, at home, no one was empty
Traveled ALL OVER THE COUNTRY! Can you imagine how you would have to travel to a foreign city, town, town, without the possibility of a NORMAL TO EAT ??? From 12 to 8 months he spent on business trips and there was NEVER ANYTHING that there was nothing to eat. At the same time, we are not one of those who were content with bagged soup ... although, I recall, the soups were delicious, eat canned food and bread, no one was going to.
The discord began when the destroyers arrived, i.e. tagged and drunks ... but that's another story.

[Reptiloid]

So, in the 50s, under Stalin, was everything? And note, I didn’t copy it.
Remember how many all sorts of Khrushchev experiments were? Which only worsened? After them, I still had to come to my senses .....

Quote: AU Ivanov.

Is it when this food supply got better and better? Even I, a schoolboy in the 70s, remember that every year the supply got worse and worse. If in the early seventies "Dog's Joy" was sometimes brought into the store (this is such a sausage made from meat processing waste), then in the early 80s it was gone. And the older generation said that in the 50s, even in the shops of the regional center there was everything, well, or almost everything, including caviar and crabs.

[AU Ivanov.]

And I’m not talking about Stalin’s times, I wasn’t in the project then either. I write about what I saw personally. Stalin was able to abolish the card system, just 2 years after the war. Under Brezhnev, they began to quietly introduce her back, albeit not everywhere and not en masse, but the first bells were already there. Although neither war nor other disasters were observed.

[chenia]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

Even I, in the 70s, a schoolboy remember that every year the supply was getting worse and worse.

That's enough to lie. I have school years in the 60s. So, before Khrushchov’s removal, it was really shitty (although something was unnatural there). And then suddenly everything appeared.
And now the 70s, the first half is the maximum abundance, then, a little worse. But the guys nearby was a bazaar. there was 1,5 times more expensive a lot of meat (from a cow, nutria and rabbit). The co-operator sausages are a bit more expensive. but the store is out of turn. Well, not 50 grades, from 15 will take-I do not want.
Catering - 50-60 kopecks. (first. second, compote) seasonings and bread for free. Okay, I joked (but not about the price). But departmental canteens prepared to the ruble very high quality. Cafes and restaurants (yes, yes. These establishments were required to serve complex lunches during the day - up to 1.60-1.80 rubles).
But fish in bulk, hake and pollock were considered an army dish, though the sturgeon and salmon (in canned food) did not linger. And a sea of ​​natural juices. Fruits and vegetables in bulk and cheap season. The pastry shop is generally clogged. Dairy - before lunch (but the price of 1 liter is 10 kopecks. A bottle of 15 kopecks. Mineralka is cheaper).
In fact, you always need to compare with consumption, rather than the presence on the shelves.
And another important point - the population grew every 10 years -25 million and they need apartments, kindergartens, meat, milk, etc.

[Golovan Jack]

All this very much depended on the place of residence. Ivenov from St. Petersburg, I am from the distant suburbs. I certainly didn't have any "bazaars" nearby, I suppose he did not.

Quote: chenia

The co-operator sausages are a bit more expensive. but the store is out of turn. Well, not 50 grades, from 15 it will be - I do not want to take it

To go nuts, give two. We didn’t have a cooperator (the village was still there, about 15 thousand people - exactly), and so the sausage - once a week, the line is from 6 in the morning and kilo in hand.

Quote: chenia

true sturgeon and salmon (in canned food) did not linger

I have never met in a store.

I say - it depended on the place. Yes, I'm talking about the 70s.

[AU Ivanov.]

I was born in St. Petersburg, and grew up in Novgorod, in the homeland of my father. Believe me, the shops were empty. Very empty. Not from a good life went to Leningrad for meat-sausages, butter and cheese. Pollock and sprats in the vehicle will not be full. And with the cooperation was not very. It came to the rescue that my father, as a railwayman, received food sets in the ORS.

[chenia]

Quote: Golovan Jack

I say - it depended on the place. Yes, I'm talking about the 70s.

Yes, I have the geography of Ukraine, Central Asia, Russia-capitals, Kursk, Kuibyshev, Voronezh, the Caucasus (Dagestan, Georgia, Azerbaijan) + Hungary and East Germany. Where he lived, where he studied, where on a business trip. Well, I don’t know, but the bazaars were in the most remote places (moreover, it was easier to find imported perfumes, scarce books and imported items. There was some kind of paradox). But there were no problems with food. And away often (now it no longer happens, maybe because the old one). Everything is on top.
If not? Then we lived in different countries.

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: chenia

Yes, I have the geography of Ukraine, Central Asia, Russia-capitals, Kursk, Kuibyshev, Voronezh, the Caucasus (Dagestan, Georgia, Azerbaijan) + Hungary and East Germany

Excuse me, is this all for the seventies? However

Quote: chenia

Well, I don’t know, but the bazaars were in the most remote places

Moscow region, 50 km from. "Bazaars" were not, excuse me. There were no "cooperators" either

Quote: chenia

in the most remote places (moreover, it was easier to find imported perfumes, scarce books and imported items. There was some kind of paradox)

This is yes, it is. Because in these places they didn’t rest against anyone’s horn

Quote: chenia

there were no problems with food

But I'm not saying that there was nothing. It’s just that the luxury that you described at the beginning, I personally didn’t have in the village-town. I talk about it exactly.

Quote: chenia

If not? Then we lived in different countries

No dirt

Quote: Golovan Jack

I say - it depended on the place. Yes, I'm talking about the 70s

Something like this. There is nothing to argue about

[chenia]

Quote: Golovan Jack

Excuse me, is this all for the seventies? However

Not, from the late 50s, to 90. The son of a military man and the military himself. They used to change their residence two or three times a year. Naturally I can talk about the 60s and beyond

.

Quote: Golovan Jack

what you described at the beginning, I didn’t have in my town-town personally. I talk about it exactly.

.
But you didn’t always live in one place? So. what could compare. And if it is pgt as I understand it (15 thousand). it’s usually one powerful enterprise, and then there was usually internal distribution.

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: chenia

But you didn’t always live in one place?

Until 18 - at home. After - Moscow, institute. After - a lot of where, now - again near Moscow.

But the seventies - exactly there, "50 km from".

and then there was usually an internal distribution

Yes it was. Purchased in Moscow, played at work with parents. Either in turn, I don't remember ... in short: once every two weeks approximately - a total of about 5 kilograms of different food, which we did not have in stores. Viola cheese, for example. Dry. Not boiled sausage, the same salmon in a jar ... mayonnaise, by the way.

That's about as

[Reptiloid]

I asked relatives about this time! That is how it was, as you say, dearchenya!

Quote: chenia

Quote: AS Ivanov.

Even I, in the 70s, a schoolboy remember that every year the supply was getting worse and worse.

That's enough to lie. I have school years in the 60s. So, before Khrushchov’s removal, it was really shitty (although something was unnatural there). And then suddenly everything appeared.
And now the 70s, the first half is the maximum abundance, then, a little worse. But the guys nearby was a bazaar. there was 1,5 times more expensive a lot of meat (from a cow, nutria and rabbit). The co-operator sausages are a bit more expensive. but the store is out of turn. Well, not 50 grades, from 15 will take-I do not want.
Catering - 50-60 kopecks. (first. second, compote) seasonings and bread for free. Okay, I joked (but not about the price). But departmental canteens prepared to the ruble very high quality. Cafes and restaurants (yes, yes. These establishments were required to serve complex lunches during the day - up to 1.60-1.80 rubles).
But fish in bulk, hake and pollock were considered an army dish, though the sturgeon and salmon (in canned food) did not linger. And a sea of ​​natural juices. Fruits and vegetables in bulk and cheap season. The pastry shop is generally clogged. Dairy - before lunch (but the price of 1 liter is 10 kopecks. A bottle of 15 kopecks. Mineralka is cheaper).
In fact, you always need to compare with consumption, rather than the presence on the shelves.
And another important point - the population grew every 10 years -25 million and they need apartments, kindergartens, meat, milk, etc.

[Doccor18]

And no one claimed that Soviet medicine was
perfect. There were flaws
mistakes and failures.
It was sloppiness, and sometimes
criminal negligence.
A lot of what was missing, but ....
You brought the data to the beginning
60s ... And what data on
late 70s? How many were refused then, due to lack of places?
Sure no. Everything in the USSR progressively developed, in
including medicine. New hospitals were built - huge 5-12
floor medical buildings
to thousands of beds.
And now? And now there is a forward movement backward.
We are moving back to the 60th.
And then by the 40th ...
That is the whole difference between Soviet and modern medicine.

[AU Ivanov.]

Soviet medicine was rather mediocre. Health care was good - that is, a set of measures aimed at maintaining the health of citizens. Clinical examination, vaccination, sanitation and the like.

[gurzuf]

Quote: kalibr

And do not guess !!! Guessing gypsies!

No, you are not a gypsy, you are a shaman with a holey tambourine.

[Alexander Greene]

Article minus, the author once again uses the vile method of slanderers. Pulls out from the archive a working document of the regional committee, which indicates the existing shortcomings and issues it as a system, spitting the whole Soviet period ....
Now, if such a document had not been born in the regional committee, then we can judge about the systematic nature, but here everything says that the party took care of improving medical services and kept it under control.
Conclusion: A natural process. The population is growing. It takes more to build medical facilities.

[AU Ivanov.]

Yes, such documents were a dime a dozen. There will be an opportunity, I will be here on the site, I will present a couple of documents, an entertaining reading, especially for those who have shovel pink glasses in their nose bridge.

[rocket757]

And you objectively lay out documents about shortcomings, etc., and to the point of accomplishment ....
Then it will be garlic and see who has got some glasses somewhere there!
Or WEAK?
However, everyone chooses CAM, where and in what he cop n to UNDERSTAND.

[kalibr]

Quote: rocket757

Then it will be garlic and see who has got some glasses somewhere there!

Victor! This document is about achievements and disadvantages. I didn’t sort them. And there are few documents about achievements ... People wrote about them in newspapers so that the patsaks rejoiced that the people and the party are united. The party left ... the truth.

[rocket757]

Frankly, the party leadership of the USSR did not invent a bicycle! This has been practiced by ALL authorities at all times.
For example, I am for the power of the Soviets, but in its original form, before the party nomenclature took up all the rights for itself, and the people left, basically, only duties!
But still, the Socialist system allowed, guaranteed, gave ... a lot of things to the working people, and limited the appetites of overbearing bureaucrats, for the time being, of course.
My conviction is any event, misconduct, crime is the activity of specific people, i.e., it is obligatory and nothing else.
If we do not know them, this does not mean that they are not.
It states that coverage of any event, even a selection of real documents on a topic, is an indicator of the author’s attitude.
Not a biased expert opinion, this is super rarity ...
Accordingly, the author receives the same emotional assessment of his work!
We have such time, we live from the event to the event, the emotions of anyone beat over the edge, often over the heads of others.
Your work is a compilation of just facts, without .... a lot without what.
But for some reason, it seems to me that the topic is so painful that as you don’t try to be objective, how not to smooth the corners, the bumps will fly from the wrong and the other side.
After all, I didn’t really go at first either ... then it got cold and it turns out that it’s not worth cutting a messenger’s head for bad news .... written with a pen, he didn’t cut it out with an ax
PS is very advice - do not neglect the statements, the opinion of a Soviet man. He deserves respect for much and more.

[Krasnodar]

Alexander, please recall the special clinics for party functionaries who care about the people — without mentioning the special conditions for diagnosing and treating titans of intellectual labor — the Communists, the story of Soviet equality will not be complete! And about the special distributors, a few words, if it does not bother you, as an additional argument for the dialectics of the class struggle.

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: Krasnodar

if it doesn’t bother you -

Special clinics and distributors were at all enterprises, including the district committees and executive committees, where workers were served. In city and district clinics it was no worse than in special ones. Party raboniki then served, their working day was irregular, they could stay at work until 10 o’clock in the evening, and how do you imagine the secretary of the district committee running in the evening on motor shops?
And in general, they, in comparison with current officials, are simply lambs.

[Krasnodar]

1) I remember the special dispenser during the foundry of my father - the Soviet and blue chicken chickens were very different there from the veal and smoked chicken that my mother brought from her friend - the wife of the regional commissar)).
2) There were more queues in city and district polyclinics, and fewer drugs.
3) A modern official, just like any other citizen of the Russian Federation, can go abroad for rest and treatment, with the whole family. The average citizen of the Russian Federation can get into absolutely any store available to the official. The non-partisan citizen of the USSR could not leave the borders of the Soviet Union, unlike the functionary of the Communist Party, especially in the capital country. Special distributors for regional committee workers were closed to the average citizen of the USSR.

[begemot20091]

do not dishonor your father. readers will think that he melted aluminum cans with the bums in the backyard. I traveled all over the country as a student in the 70-80s. "guldybenili" as "scholars" from a famous song. by the way, all the hits that today are "labeled" voiceless performers who have starred themselves. rejoice reading this crap. we lived at that time and we do not know everything from these libelous writers, who at one time could not enter anywhere except the Faculty of History of the Pedagogical Institute. well, the gyrus straightened early.

[Krasnodar]

Not at all - my father lived like most Soviet people - he learned to be an engineer, because of 20 or 30 rubles the difference in salary worked as a foreman in a foundry. The further stream of consciousness did not catch

[Reptiloid]

as said typing above -----

...... do not disgrace the father ......

, Krasnodar.
With whom was the difference of 20-30 rubles ?? ....... somewhere here something is hers, not to mention the fact that the value of 20-30 rubles was completely different than the right now.

Quote: Krasnodar

Not at all - my father lived like most Soviet people - he learned to be an engineer, because of 20 or 30 rubles the difference in salary worked as a foreman in a foundry. The further stream of consciousness did not catch

Well, it’s known to me that work in the foundry made it possible to retire earlier. True, I do not know how much earlier.

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Alexander Green

In city and district clinics it was no worse than in special

Full Arctic fox. Why lie, buddy ??

My grandmother, one of the two, was the third secretary, or something, of the city - the regional center. And I had the opportunity to evaluate what a special clinic is, well, it turned out like this. Heaven and earth, in short.

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: Golovan Jack

Heaven and earth, in short.

Do not make me laugh. Typical buildings, standard equipment, doctors all graduated from the Soviet medina

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Alexander Green

Typical buildings, standard equipment, doctors all graduated from the Soviet medina

Clear. I know your agitator talents and bulletproof armor on the way to the brain. Don't bother

[Reptiloid]

Alexander, the fact is that no grandchildren were allowed there simply. Could there minor children of those employees be treated, and grandchildren on any side. But, no one mentioned departmental polyclinics and hospitals. And they were. For example, in our city, during the USSR, and later, outpatient clinics from the Railroad, the Sea Port, Military Academies, and some Institutes were considered good ....... Now, for example, it is considered a good outpatient clinic for students (ul. Khlopin)

Quote: Alexander Green

Quote: Golovan Jack

Heaven and earth, in short.

Do not make me laugh. Typical buildings, standard equipment, doctors all graduated from the Soviet medina

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Reptiloid

Alexander, the fact is that no grandchildren were allowed there simply. Could there be minor children of those employees treated, and grandchildren on no side

It’s you who read books, young man. And on the basis of this, they have now accused me of lying. Cool you

[Aviator_]

And why is there nowhere to put a minus for the article?

[Region-25.rus]

depending on which side to look - or to pass this off as the norm everywhere and everywhere (and there was also enough mess on the ground. I myself am 1973 if that) or as an exception

[Brigadier]

" Minutes of the meeting of the Bureau of the OK CPSU from January 14.01 to March 16.03.1963, XNUMX "

"Author", have you looked for a year? 1963 (sixty-third !!!).
Especially for you, wise guy, once again I write in words - sixty-third !!!.
Just 18 years ago, the war ended, in which 27 million died.
Half of the country in 45 lay in ruins, hunger, cold, domestic disorder due to the lack of housing, which your then "common people" burned and blew up during retreat ...
And how many of our men died on the fronts.
Killed the main labor force of the country.
Instead, women, teenagers, old people stood up ... because it was necessary to raise the country.

And only 18 years have passed ... TOTAL 18 YEARS OLD !!!
And not everything could be recreated IMMEDIATELY in the previous volumes.
Us EVERYTHING had to be rebuilt. They rebuilt everything, not sparing themselves.
Moreover, they helped those "countries of the socialist camp" that today are on the side of our probable enemy.
Do you remember the terrible famine of 1946? I suppose you don’t remember ... Why do you need this?

How did you write there in this libel: "I just want to say: good has come to the Soviet paradise, where everything was for the good of man!"
My grandmother always said on such occasions: "Stalin is not on you..."

[Reptiloid]

63rd year. Khrushchev with the thaw.

[kalibr]

Quote: Brigadier

They rebuilt everything, not sparing themselves.
Moreover, they helped those "countries of the socialist camp" that today are on the side of our probable enemy.

And why? Probably the help was "wrong".

[Campanella]

The author has a vanka-vstanka.
The human rights activist Alekseeva complained at one time that she was tired of the pregnant woman in the post-war period, and therefore she went to human rights activists)))

[Phil77]

Quote: sniperino

seeker on w. adventures?

It is precisely the seeker.

[Amateur]

Quote: AU Ivanov.

Orbital stations with Burans did. But with cars, household appliances, clothes, shoes, food, there was, sorry, an ass.

Therefore, all the USSR went naked, shoes and with a bare ass. And also in the USSR, especially under J.V. Stalin, it was impossible to nail the scrotum to Red Square, because only for the very idea of ​​the "Stalinist satraps" could tear off the whole "economy" in general. Can you imagine what mental anguish the male population of the USSR experienced from the fact that: "I cannot nail my scrotum to Red Square (Lenin Square, Dzerzhinsky Street, Zanyukhany Lane, etc.). Why live then?"
And poor Soviet women! They even had nothing to nail. Therefore, they slept and saw when democracy and the transgender era came, they would change their sex and then they could nail their silicone balls to Red Square. "Life was not lived in vain"

[AU Ivanov.]

And you remember about the hygiene of a Soviet woman, if you really care for them. About Soviet women's underwear "impotent's dream" And at the same time about newspapers instead of toilet paper, since I was drawn to physiology.

[Amateur]

About Soviet women's underwear "impotent's dream"

Well, what to do if you are unlucky. Sorry.

[begemot20091]

apparently life brought you only with zakas, I'm sorry, not camille to the place, I suppose.

[Reptiloid]

As soon as the Soviet regime became, it immediately began to educate all about hygiene, about which there were posters and poems for children. And as for newspapers, the question arises of how this happened in your village under the tsar, and about lingerie under the tsar ....... although it is clear here. From merchants and above --- the ladies had sss. All the others --- didn’t.

Quote: AU Ivanov.

And you remember about the hygiene of a Soviet woman, if you really care for them. About Soviet women's underwear "impotent's dream" And at the same time about newspapers instead of toilet paper, since I was drawn to physiology.

[Campanella]

Women did not look very bad at the same time. Then there were no computers ... and a coward, well, they would have appeared in 15 years, no big deal. The point is not in form but in content.
Now there are no oil varieties of any kind ... only it is problematic to find oil in these varieties, there is also a lot of sausage with your sausage, but is it sausage?

[A.TOR]

I read your comments, gentlemen, and I feel that Russia is heading towards a "civil war" with a swift, I would say, a swift step.
You would have less blamed each other - each other for hostility towards the country, or something ... You can’t. People are different and their interests, views on life as a result of life experience are different. Each story of any state had different page colors, but this is no reason, dropping drool (you excuse me) to accuse each other of betrayal and hatred of the motherland.
After all, Russia is your homeland, right?
You live here, raise children and grandchildren, somehow find a common language with them and with each other!
Can not be so.

And to the author of the article - with an apology, of course - I will allow myself to recommend that you try to avoid such topics in such a difficult and ambiguous time, nevertheless, to avoid ...

[kalibr]

And to the author of the article - with an apology, of course - I allow myself to recommend that you try to avoid such difficult and ambiguous times in such difficult and ambiguous times, nevertheless, to avoid ... [/ quote]
What for? Let everyone see what "homo sovieticus" brought up our former social order!

[A.TOR]

Not for the sake of starting a discussion:
here is a very specific audience, the readiness of which to justify the most varied "features" of the times of the USSR is high due, as a rule, to their ties with the army in the past.
In principle, this is understandable.
The problem - IMHO, of course - is that these people do not understand the meaning of the PRICE of the "greatness" of the USSR. It seems to them that it is possible to be a superpower of the modern world and at the same time have free and good quality medicine for tens of millions of people, good and high-quality manufactured goods, excellent secondary / higher education, developed science - at the same time with colossal military expenditures (in order to kick everyone in the face on their own choice and desire).
The PRICE of the greatness of the state - with one exception - the degradation of public institutions, stagnation of the economy and, ultimately, collapse.
"Homo sovieticus" is not the result of upbringing - it is the consequences of creating an imitation of the greatness of the country with a projection on the minds of good, but not particularly educated people.
Unfortunately.

[kalibr]

Quote: A.TOR

"Homo sovieticus" is not the result of upbringing - it is the consequences of creating an imitation of the greatness of the country with a projection on the minds of good, but not particularly educated people.
Unfortunately.

I agree!

[Campanella]

Your thought is highly controversial.
In your opinion, you can’t be strong and smart or healthy at the same time?

[A.TOR]

We are not talking about abstract "goodness", but about a specific country with a specific history and living conditions and a specific population.
Yes, for Russia / the USSR, attempts to be a military superpower + high quality of life + advanced production + world-class science with this concept of socialization and with this population is a meaningless fantasy.

[begemot20091]

and ....... same-oriented non.

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: kalibr

Let everyone see what "homo sovieticus" brought up our former social order!

You shouldn’t be so, there are not so many teachers-ragged from the History of the CPSU

[Reptiloid]

They are enough, Alexander! It’s just that most of them had other ranks and professions, which makes it possible not to mention the teaching of the History of the CPSU.

[Dali]

Quote: kalibr

What for? Let everyone see what "homo sovieticus" brought up our former social order!

Those. like you do not consider yourself as such ?!

[g1v2]

Double article. On the one hand, the USSR was not a paradise, and those who lived then were definitely not happy with the level of Soviet medicine. Whatever they say now. nostalgic. On the other hand, taking a certificate from the 60s is definitely not correct. At that time, the Khrushchevs, from which we are now spitting, were great progress. Just because people from the barracks were resettled there. Since the war, then 20 years have passed and a huge amount of money and effort has been spent on restoring the devastated west of the country. Well, as always, there was a lot of mess. but skilled managers are always worth their weight in gold.
I repeat, I remember well that, for example, in the 80s the same disposable syringes were not stupid. But compared with what it was before, there has been noticeable progress. But in general, you need to understand that free medicine for the country is a mega-expensive thing. At the same debate in the states, we are talking about introducing a cropped version of our current free and universal medicine and the numbers are voiced that this will require TENS of TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS. At the same time, we ourselves are not happy with our medicine and make a bunch of complaints against it. But even such a few can afford.
It is also necessary to understand that the level of health of a nation is much more dependent on the lifestyle and its level. Now our average age of life is a record for our country. But the main reason is still not the level of medicine, but the fact that they began to drink less stupidly, smoke and use drugs. I’ve been walking past two schools in my St. Petersburg for about 5 years and don’t see drunk or stoned youngsters. I even see smokers very rarely. And for my youth this was the norm. PM lifestyle and education of the population - this is the first thing that affects the health and workload of medicine.

[Aviator_]

that they began to stupidly drink less, smoke and use drugs.

This is you with the area of ​​Peter was very lucky. Probably, all the problematic ones were evicted from there, or they died out.

[AU Ivanov.]

I am also from St. Petersburg - I confirm. Young people hang out more on sports fields, meeting with beer and a cigarette is a rarity. It has become unfashionable among young people. About 15 years ago this was not so. In the small homeland - the same picture.

[Reptiloid]

Well, it is now banned, and adults on the street do not drink for a long time.
And the year so in 2009, summer, heat, I am from the metro station on Blagodatnaya. Such girls stand there, barely on their feet, swearing, drinking beer and spitting. After 2 hours, after work, back to the subway. Stuffiness. 2 young women in a carriage drink brandy, put a bottle on the floor during breaks ..... In the evening ----- home, in the subway already aunts age decent drunk now cry, then laugh.
I remembered this day, already wrote it somehow ....

[WayKheThuo]

I frankly did not like the article and there are several reasons for this:
1. One (one, Karl) document was taken and on its basis with pathos stated: "Welcome to Soviet Paradise." As for me, sampling into one (!) Archive unit is not representative.
2. The article is saturated with hatred of the USSR, which inspires serious concern about the objectivity of the author.
3. The article does not bring any new texture, in the sense that people who made the USSR in adulthood already know everything, and people who did not live anything in the USSR really will not understand.
4. Summing up 1 - 3, we can say that this article is a typical example of trolling. Moreover, the thickest, low quality.

Was the USSR an ideal country? Obviously not. Frankly, this is clear and without articles of this kind.
Is it worth it now to pull out archival documents to “expose” the Soviet system? Well, if you have absolutely nothing to do and you really want someone to “prove” something - why not, but such “studies” are very similar to the war with windmills, which, moreover, have already been demolished by their own owners for thirty years or so.
We live in a different country, in completely different conditions and every year the era of the USSR goes into the past, plunging into Limb, but, nevertheless, this is our story, which must be carefully and systematically studied so as not to repeat the mistakes made by our ancestors rather than pulling out convenient archived data for guano to be thrown into the fan.
I think so.

[kalibr]

There are links to the archive and its documents - you can order a case and check!

Quote: WayKhe Thuo

which must be carefully and systematically studied so as not to repeat mistakes,

So we study it, painstakingly and systematically. They agreed that for comparison it is necessary to give the same report for 72-73 and something pre-war. All at the request of the working people!

[WayKheThuo]

So we study it, painstakingly and systematically

And I'm glad. And success to you.
Just, studying, as for me, is collecting large the volume of materials, including archival materials, then data from the press of that time, opinions of contemporaries, some kind of statistics, and so on and so on, are "attached" to these materials.
History is a science, by the way, there is an excellent article on the subject on this subject, which involves working with primary sources, historiography and analysis.
Unfortunately, in your article there is very little of the first, and zero point, zero point two, and almost no third.
I sincerely wish you to please us with a good, suitable article based on a powerful factology and thoughtful analysis.

[kalibr]

Quote: WayKhe Thuo

based on powerful factology

More powerful than the material given here? This must be addressed to the archive of the Central Committee of the CPSU ...

[BAI]

One would like to say: good regretted to the Soviet paradise, where everything was for the good of man!

In an attack of anti-Sovietism, the author is degrading before our eyes (a particularly suitable time has been chosen). Is it nothing that only 18 years have passed since the end of the war? The situation is very similar to a joke:
Navigator, appliances!
Ten!
What is ten?
What about appliances?
The figures given do not mean anything. The author absolutely does not know statistics. To understand their meaning (numbers) - is it good or bad, it is necessary to compare with something.
Of course, it's good when everything is fine. But if all is not all well, then everything is known in comparison.
At the same time, I already wrote that ONLY negative material is stored in the secret archive, why not secret success.
Again, I repeat - the author stubbornly dives into a cesspool and, on the basis of this, declares that the cleanest sea nearby is all out of shit.

[kalibr]

But aren't successes indicated in this material? Just here there are successes and everything else. So not only ...

[kalibr]

And the doctors who trafficked drug addicts are also the result of war, right?

[Campanella]

It does not degrade, it can be seen that parents have degraded in due time.
The author has another task to create a background against which Russian reality would look attractive.

[Dali]

Quote: Campanella

The author has another task to create a background against which Russian reality would look attractive.

And I had an opinion, if you read all of his publications, he and those few Russian achievements are also not at all worth it ... so to speak, everything Russian (or rather Russian) is completely not to his liking ...

[Campanella]

Perhaps the motives of such publicists are usually hidden behind common good goals.
But all their work is based on hatred and the opportunity to earn loot. These gentlemen scribbled denunciations in the 30s, so that later they could talk about repressions with pain in their voices.

[Alecsandr]

Yes, not the caliber. All the time looking for how to spit in the "scoop" Another word came up with such a word, "Scoop" Well, what do many people consider themselves scoops. The scoops also have the right to have their say

[kalibr]

Quote: Alecsandr

Scoops also have the right to say their word

Any competent citizen has the right. Another thing is the price of it? Do you want your word to be reckoned with? Go to your regional archive, find a similar report and ... bring it here ... Or for any other year ... why not? Say your weighty word!

[Alecsandr]

And why do I need this weighty word. It is enough to live at this time and understand what is happening around. And not to dig into the archives.

[kalibr]

Quote: Alecsandr

And not to dig into the archives.

Then your opinion is inexpensive. Therefore, whether you have it or not, it makes no difference.

[Dali]

Quote: kalibr

Then your opinion is inexpensive. Therefore, whether you have it or not, it makes no difference.

So then your word is the same - what are your links worth? How can most of them check?
Therefore, they correlate what you said with your life experience, with the logic of the events of that time ... and as a result it turns out that the majority does not agree ... as a result, your links can be either true or false.

[kalibr]

Quote: Dali

How can most of them check?

There is a link to the archive in the text of the article. Whoever needs it, can take it to write and order anything - both a copier and a photocopy. Here on VO there are my two articles about the Fiuma incident. Look at them .. and make sure that when I needed to expose this nonsense, I wrote to the Navy archive and sent me all the documents. So anyone who really cherishes the memory of the past can do the same. But the majority - remember, stupid, incapable of anything sensible, and are greedy for money. There are no big doughs and no thoughts about paying for "my love". Therefore ... eat what is served and do not thank!

[Dali]

Quote: kalibr

Therefore ... eat what is served and do not give thanks!

Something does not look like you are very grateful and eat ...

[kalibr]

What are you talking about? You don’t understand anything at all, what matters in online journalism and what doesn’t matter from the word at all? It’s sad. However, I know who I have to deal with, how I have been living in Russia since 1954.

[Dali]

Quote: kalibr

So anyone who really cares about the memory of the past can do the same. But the majority - remember, stupid, incapable of anything sensible, and are greedy for money. There are no big doughs and no thoughts about paying for "my love".

Most stupid and greedy for money - and you type unkempt? How did you immediately blame everyone without trial and investigation ... and this, too, is slander — isn’t it really so, and you already have a reason to file a lawsuit?

Well ... and the archives will not choke?

At the expense of anyone can do - you are, so to speak, exaggerating a little ...
I would also understand if all the archives became available remotely ... and that is, there are many pitfalls in this matter.

[kalibr]

Quote: Dali

At the expense of anyone can do - you are, so to speak, exaggerating a little ...
I would also understand if all the archives became available remotely ... and that is, there are many pitfalls in this matter.

You just did not get involved in this affair. Give it a try! There are no pitfalls!

[kalibr]

Quote: Dali

How did you immediately blame everyone without trial and investigation ... and this, too, is slander — isn’t it really so, and you already have a reason to file a lawsuit?

One person on behalf of all can not do this. Create an initiative group, attract lawyers and go! I'll see what you get!

[Campanella]

And in the United States, blacks were lynching at that time!

[Fat]

Quote: Campanella

And in the United States, blacks were lynching at that time!

Who got lynched ...

It is believedthat the last case of Lynch’s trial in the USA against a black American occurred in 1981 in the city of Mobile (Alabama) against Michael Donald.

Exactly what counts.
Youth gangs sometimes "lynch" homeless people and not only ... and not only in the USA ...

[Doccor18]

[/ quote] Soviet medicine was rather mediocre. Health care was good - that is, a set of measures aimed at maintaining the health of citizens. Clinical examination, vaccination, sanitation and the like. [/ Quote]
You don’t even understand what you just wrote. Soviet medicine was one of the driving forces of world medicine. She was at the forefront of progress, if you like. Soviet transplantologists, microbiologists, cardiac surgeons, epidemiologists, ophthalmologists, psychiatrists were
some of the most respected in
world right up to the collapse of the Union and
long after.
Many leading medical
world centers were invited to work
Soviet luminaries of medicine.

[AU Ivanov.]

I'm talking about mass medicine, not about the Kremlin hospital. The research institutes worked, and in dentistry, the teeth were filled with cement after processing the tooth with a belt-driven drill under cricaine. It was so? It was. Mother worked in the Central Hospital, as a surgeon, medical equipment was in the 50s ..

[Doccor18]

And now mass medicine is on top! At an unattainable height ... Not everyone is able to reach it. German implant for 50.000, with high quality and do not deny yourself anything ....

[AU Ivanov.]

I'd rather go through diagnostics for my hard-earned ones, but with modern equipment, than I will get free sievers on antediluvian for free. And I’ll put the implant more expensive, but without osteomyelitis in the future.

[Doccor18]

You must be a Muscovite ...
With a salary of 300 thousand.
Then you can allow it.
It is only a pity that 80% of our compatriots cannot afford expensive diagnostic procedures and treatment ...

[AU Ivanov.]

St. Petersburg I, a senior citizen premature. I work for myself.

[Dart2027]

Quote: Doccor18

German implant for 50.000, high quality and

And were they in the USSR? As for quality, a few years ago he was treating his teeth in a clinic. I went to the paid department and there was a choice - either a free domestic / Soviet injection or for a fee, but imported.

[begemot20091]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

I'm talking about mass medicine, not about the Kremlin hospital. The research institutes worked, and in dentistry, the teeth were filled with cement after processing the tooth with a belt-driven drill under cricaine. It was so? It was. Mother worked in the Central Hospital, as a surgeon, medical equipment was in the 50s ..

the seal installed at 15 is still intact. since then - 55 years

[serezhasoldatow]

But rightly marked !!!

[Krasnodar]

Quote: Doccor18

Soviet medicine was one of the driving forces of world medicine. She was at the forefront of progress, if you like. Soviet transplantologists, microbiologists, cardiac surgeons, epidemiologists, ophthalmologists, psychiatrists were
some of the most respected in
world right up to the collapse of the Union and
long after.
Many leading medical
world centers were invited to work
Soviet luminaries of medicine.

Apart from Pirogov, Bekhterev and Elizarov, none of the "luminaries of Soviet medicine" in the West is known. Neither Fedorov nor Bakeria - nobody. To work in Israel or Germany, the luminaries of Soviet medicine had to retake their exams, starting with chemistry and biology. The only thing was that there were two serious Soviet specialists in the field of cardiac surgery - one of them performed venous bypass grafting of the heart (he took veins instead of the aorta), which did not take root in clinical practice. There was also a good Soviet transplantologist, a truly revolutionary medicine. They are known in narrow professional circles, within the "history of the development of this field of medicine."

[Reptiloid]

In the early 80s, word of mouth began to transmit that in Israel there were not enough doctors. Those who went did not retake anything, it was necessary to learn Hebrew and fill in stories in Hebrew.

[ser56]

Thanks to the author! Your article would be decorated with a comparison of archival data and the present! On the issues raised - child mortality, provision of kindergartens, beds, pharmacies ...

[Campanella]

The author’s task is to dig, not analyze.

[kalibr]

Quote: ser56

Thanks to the author! Your article would be decorated with a comparison of archival data and the present! On the issues raised - child mortality, provision of kindergartens, beds, pharmacies ...

There is one "but" here. It seems that it would decorate ... But in fact, you cannot compare. Then everything was for the good of the "people". All the people. Now everything is for the good of the smart, talented and connected. Mediocrity has a hard time. Not comparable.

[ser56]

Quote: kalibr

Then everything was for the good of the "people". All the people.

you believe into this bullshit? with distributors and separate hospitals for nomenclature?

Quote: kalibr

Now everything is for the benefit of smart, talented and with connections.

more precisely the latter, although the first two categories will not disappear ...

[kalibr]

Quote: ser56

Do you believe in this nonsense? with distributors and separate hospitals for nomenclature?

Of course not. But this was stated very loudly. And many believed! And read the comments? Many now believe in it. Therefore, I wrote it. By the way, and in addition to individual hospitals, there were also cozy rest houses in the woods, in the wilderness. Lucky to be in such a student at the excavation site. It was empty from Monday to Friday. And the ranger allowed us to spend the night there. And in the days of rest ... After all, not one there with his wife rested!

[ser56]

Quote: kalibr

and cozy holiday homes in the woods, off the beaten path.

seen in Pitsunda ...

Quote: kalibr

After all, no one there with his wife did not rest!

normal men

[kalibr]

Quote: ser56

normal men

If you did not demand high morality from others! Double standards are always very ugly!

[ser56]

Quote: kalibr

Double standards are always very ugly!

Theoretically true, but as I remember myself, double morality was then organic - they themselves spoke at meetings, thought the other ...

[kalibr]

Quote: ser56

double morality was then organic - at the meetings themselves they said one thing, they thought another ..

Still sick of this!

[ser56]

Quote: kalibr

still sick of this!

Something you are impressionable, however, I agree that it is now much more honest ...

[kalibr]

Quote: ser56

something you are impressionable

So after 9 years cooked in this system ...

[ser56]

Quote: kalibr

So after 9 years cooked in this system ...

it’s harder for historians, for us techies it’s easier ... We solved physical problems at a practical training ... the benefit was led by a very strong doctor of physical and mathematical sciences

[kalibr]

And I have a list: associate professor of the history of the CPSU, lecturer of the OK Komsomol, lecturer of the RK KPSS ... so to speak, a complete "commissar in a dusty helmet" ...

[ser56]

Quote: kalibr

so to speak, a complete "commissar in a dusty helmet" ...

member of the CPSU since 1988 ...

[serezhasoldatow]

So what? Then what to do? Applaud to the author? Thumb down? At this time, the article came out on time? Probably become old. In my opinion crap!

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: AU Ivanov.

I'm talking about mass medicine, not about the Kremlin hospital. The research institutes worked, and in dentistry, the teeth were filled with cement after processing the tooth with a belt-driven drill under cricaine. It was so? It was. Mother worked in the Central Hospital, as a surgeon, medical equipment was in the 50s ..

I have had such a seal for 29 years. But the current fillings take off after 3-5 years, or even less.

[ser56]

Quote: Alexander Green

I had such a seal for 29 years

dentists have a type term - soviet red seal

[ANB]

Excellent article.
The author, following his logic to spread only the truth, confirmed by documents, this time burst.
What do we see in such a terrible Soviet past (early 60s)?
And we see a full-fledged analysis of the deficiencies revealed by some commission in protecting the health of workers. Moreover, the figures of losses from these shortcomings are also announced.
What are they? And the fact that the money for the construction of hospitals has been allocated, but they are being built slowly. The nurse made a mistake and killed the child, but the regional committee already knows about it, so she has already sat down or will sit down, and the rest will certainly be more attentive.
Now compare yourself with today.

[kalibr]

Quote: ANB

this time burst.

Burst that laid out the truth?

[ANB]

. Burst that laid out the truth?

Yeah :) According to the title and the meaning of the series of articles - "look, everything was not so good in the USSR."
But in this article, just another conclusion suggests itself.
Ps. I put you a plus sign.

[kalibr]

Andrew! And I always try to upload exactly the documents. And so everyone sees in them ...

[ANB]

. And I always try to upload exactly the documents.

And I for this also love your articles. And that's all, even if I don’t like the contents.

[Dali]

Quote: kalibr

Andrew! And I always try to upload exactly the documents. And so everyone sees in them ...

Just something the direction of your laying out is very indicative - I will always find it ... but shit ...

[kalibr]

Quote: Dali

but shit ...

This shit is our common story. I am ashamed to turn away from the crap of our ancestors!

[Dali]

Quote: kalibr

This shit is our common story. I am ashamed to turn away from the crap of our ancestors!

You actually read the comments completely ?!
Yes, and you to whom

Quote: kalibr

I am ashamed to turn away from the crap of our ancestors!

?

Well ... I don’t know what kind of crap your ancestors did, but mine didn’t do that shit!

[kalibr]

Quote: Dali

and mine didn’t do such shit!

This is what you think! Archival documents may not confirm this ha ha. Anything can be there.

[rocket757]

Quote: ANB

Now compare yourself with today

As an option, the author assumed the responsibility of a scammer.
The denunciations were not always true. In the history of a large country with such a complex history, a lot of things can be found different, bad and good.
On the one hand, many do not want to think about all this ..... on the other hand, this is like an offer to those who did not know to figure it out for themselves. There is such an opportunity, if there was a desire.
There is no evil without good, but it seems that there is no good without good. Life is a complicated thing.

[Pushkar]

It is very reminiscent of an old army joke. They check the fire safety in the part, the inspector approaches the fire shield, removes the shovel and begins to write flaws - the handle is poorly planted, the blade is not sharpened, the shovel is poorly painted, there is no inscription on the date of the check, etc., there are only 22 shortcomings. The company commander takes this shovel from his hands and throws it away. "Write, there is no shovel - only one drawback." So in this document - if there are shortcomings, then the work has been done, although not in full and not in due time. And the purpose of the above analysis is to improve the situation, eliminate the shortcomings, because only 17 years have passed since the end of the most terrible of wars, and we have already created atomic weapons, rocket troops, flew in space and moved to new Khrushchev houses. And further. Mr. Shpakovsky, to declare your opponents a priori "scoops" and old fools is not a sign of intelligence. I have the honor.

[kalibr]

Quote: Pushkar

flew in space and moved to new Khrushchev.

That is, even the Khrushchevs of Trotskyist Khrushchev became good? You may have honor, but it would be nice to buy a bit of your mind!

[ser56]

Quote: kalibr

Khrushchev's Trotskyist Khrushchev became good?

They are not Khrushchev, developed during the IVS For that time, they were pretty normal, similar ones were built all over Europe - in Germany there are a lot of such, but even worse, a bathroom in the kitchen ...

[Reptiloid]

Quote: ser56

Quote: kalibr

Khrushchev's Trotskyist Khrushchev became good?

They are not Khrushchev, developed during the IVS For that time, they were pretty normal, similar ones were built all over Europe - in Germany there are a lot of such, but even worse, a bathroom in the kitchen ...

I am pleased with the words about the Khrushchev! Because the construction of houses for urban residents began in the 20s, they tried to improve life as much as possible. And there were few opportunities. KNEW --- to be war.
And what's wrong with the Khrushchev.? One person is known, so. So 4-5 generations immediately lived in Khrushchev’s --- and nothing, the cooperative didn’t want, or the house is decent, although not poor .........
And they wouldn’t give Khrushchev ---- they would live on the street with a toilet, as before the revolution

[ser56]

Quote: Reptiloid

KNEW --- to be war.

and were not ready ...

Quote: Reptiloid

they would have lived with a toilet on the street, as before the revolution

lived differently before the revolution - read Khrushchev how he - a locksmith lived ...

[Dali]

Quote: kalibr

That is, even the Khrushchevs of Trotskyist Khrushchev became good? You may have honor, but it would be nice to buy a bit of your mind!

You are a true demagogue ... you have already been reminded that the country has recently, 18 years have passed since the end of the war, the whole country is in ruins ... so the Khrushchevs at that time is a real achievement !!!

Well, yes, and now they are building apartments on 11sq.m, this is probably an achievement - so many people will never buy such apartments !!!

[Reptiloid]

Quote: Dali

Quote: kalibr

That is, even the Khrushchevs of Trotskyist Khrushchev became good? You may have honor, but it would be nice to buy a bit of your mind!

You are a true demagogue ... you have already been reminded that the country has recently, 18 years have passed since the end of the war, the whole country is in ruins ... so the Khrushchevs at that time is a real achievement !!!

Well, yes, and now they are building apartments on 11sq.m, this is probably an achievement - so many people will never buy such apartments !!!

and for those times and for these! Mocking the USSR, several generations live in Soviet apartments! Spitting on the Soviet past. And it would be right to abandon Soviet apartments to such residents! And from Soviet diplomas at the same time!
Chic would be an act!

[Campanella]

Shpakovsky, did you get the next libel? Hand fighter masturbate ..... are you tired? Not tired of collecting shit in a pile?

[Yury Siritsky]

It does not reflect anything. Judging about the whole country in one area is nonsense. I don’t know how long you delved into these documents until you got out what suited you. To snatch that time is not new. If cleanliness, then now the situation is many times worse.

[kalibr]

Quote: Yuri Siritsky

now the situation is many times worse.

Can you bring a document with a link to the archive or the ministry? It would be interesting to compare ...

[Jarserge]

In general, everything is clear. The author shits in the Soviet past. But why not compare all the same, find shit in the "magnificent" tsarist period. And not for those 15% of the owners of life for peasants and workers, not for elite specialists and not for individual decent owners, but for the majority (I recommend the archives of the tsarist inspection, where there are horror films, you can only compare with Sachsenhausen). Why not compare with today's "democratic" times? Is it all the better? Paradise is a respected author, just like communism is an empirical thing and in principle unattainable. And if the author has settled well in this life, this does not mean that everyone also has access to the benefits of life, at his level. Dishonestly respected

[kalibr]

That is, the document cited here does not really exist? It is not true?

[Jarserge]

Where did you read in my comment that "the document given here does not really exist" does not exist? You read and see what you want? So what?
A document is like a photograph that captures some moment of our or someone's life, but what is left, right above and below is not visible. And my complaint is for the amateur, or, if you like, for the prejudice of the documents. And in life there is a place for not such things, he himself was treated privately for radiation sickness in a mild form (after Chernobyl) in the USSR there was no such diagnosis. Nobody wanted to take responsibility. And not only in the USSR. There is an interesting documentary "Health Burial" by Michael Moore. Curiosity

[kalibr]

Quote: Jarserge

And in life there is a place for not such things, he was treated privately for a mild radiation sickness (after Chernobyl) in the USSR there was no such diagnosis.

What kind of care for people, right? Heroes in words, but how to deal - "no disease." A very fair system!

[Jarserge]

You are a sick man, maniac. You focused on the Soviet system and it is no different from any other. Neither from the American bullshit nor from its worthless copy in eReFii. All the horror films of the USSR are simply inflated by Western propaganda, which you intensively help to the best of your ability. That is what I am trying to convey to you. But you are looking for excuse the shit and with pleasure in it you poke around posing as a love of history, but in fact it is a love of shit

[Dali]

Quote: Jarserge

You are a sick man, maniac. You focused on the Soviet system and it is no different from any other. Neither from the American bullshit nor from its worthless copy in eReFii. All the horror films of the USSR are simply inflated by Western propaganda, which you intensively help to the best of your ability. That is what I am trying to convey to you. But you are looking for excuse the shit and with pleasure in it you poke around posing as a love of history, but in fact it is a love of shit

This city Shpakovsky not only hates the USSR, read all his articles and comments, he is also a Russophobe, moreover, his articles about the history of Russia are quite revealing !!!

[kalibr]

Quote: Jarserge

That is what I am trying to convey to you.

I don’t have to bring anything to me. You better see how this material has increased the site’s appeal to potential advertisers. How many clicks, how many comments. This is great, it says that people like it. So nothing personal. Just a business!

[AU Ivanov.]

And that there were few nasty things in the "bright" Soviet past?

[kalibr]

Quote: Jarserge

do not find shit in the "magnificent" tsarist period

Is he magnificent? If he were like that, he wouldn’t fall apart in the 17th. And if everything was good in the USSR too, it would not have collapsed in the 91st

[Kostadinov]

You can write anything. Here is an official document reflecting the realities of that life. In the text all data is given on it. I did not invent it. So it was, and there’s no escape from this.

Thanks for the document. I don’t know what you wanted to prove, but this document is the best advertisement of socialism and free medicine in the USSR. Trade with human health is much worse and is already understood all over the world. The paradise of the USSR did not beat, but such hell did capitalism for the sick and healthy then under socialism they could not imagine in a bad dream.

[Clerk]

You should first write correctly to learn how to become an adult, baby. And then just go and finish elementary school - and you pretend that you have known life in all its manifestations, have been wise by life experience, and therefore you are discussing realities with men.

[Nikolai Korovin]

Kind of weird. The discussion from the state of healthcare in the USSR in the 60s passed to the Socialist-Revolutionary terrorism after 1905. As for health care, as a person who lived under socialism for 39 years, was not a member of the privileged class and was sick quite a lot, I think that my opinion can have a certain weight without resorting to party archives.
Free health care, especially dentistry, was so-so, and free dentures are better off. Drive a coin - maybe they will do something. Nobody even thought about some kind of replacement of the hip joints. Ill with cancer - krants. 2-3 years old to you. In the district polyclinic there are eternal queues to all doctors, and no one pays attention to coupons, all the time there is a “live queue”.
But in the 90s, of course, it got worse. And now it's better. For example, specific tasks are set - to increase the 5-year survival rate of cancer patients from 53% to 70%, which is not so little. With coronavirus, I think everything is done correctly. Under the Soviet regime, they would most likely simply be silent, like Lukashenko — oh, nonsense. That same natural selection. And the current struggle, perhaps, will lead to the fact that people will stop dying from complications after the flu. They were dying with free Soviet medicine, they are dying now, so the problem is serious. The saturation of free medical facilities with sophisticated equipment has greatly increased, especially in recent years. To get a free CT scan, MRI, at least in Moscow, is not a problem.
But still, this is not a reason to find fault with free Soviet medicine. For broad strata of the population before the revolution, medicine did not have the word "absolutely" Read the classics. Some enthusiasts like Anton Palych tried to do something. My grandmother worked for some time as a nurse in an outpatient clinic in a small town after the war. She told jokes. A large part of the population had wild ideas about medicine. For 30 years of Soviet power, elementary medical information did not reach many in the outback. There were a lot of illiterate people. So comparing what is now with what was 60 years ago is rather stupid. Automatic comparison will not be in favor of what it was 60 years ago. Life was completely different. We lived poorly. Who is now all around hayot, seeing today, would probably think that he got to America.

[Dali]

Quote: Nikolai Korovin

So-so there was free health care, especially dentistry, and in free dental prosthetics it’s better not to stick around. Drive a coin - maybe they will do something. Nobody thought about something like replacing the hip joints. Ill with cancer - krants.

This type of scientific achievement then and now the same? Well, you and the demagogue ... and the USA then (the seventies) like everyone cured of cancer, or was it not much better ?! Hello garage ...

[Alexander I]

Yes, there was a lot and not everything was good, but for example, my brother underwent surgery in a regional hospital in the middle of the taiga, and an Azerbaijani doctor preferred to treat people and not stand on the market.

[kalibr]

Quote: AlexanderI

Yes, there was a lot and not everything was good, but for example, my brother underwent surgery in a regional hospital in the middle of the taiga, and the Azerbaijani doctor preferred to treat people and not Alexander! To stand in the market.

Dear Alexander! Personal examples are always ambiguous and ... have little meaning. Here we must remember the law of large numbers. Who and what was more. The best example here is this: people die (insulting), humanity lives (pleases). So with you: the operation was done, but the USSR fell apart!

[typer zoom]

Compared to social security at the level of the 60s, the current social and medical security of the population looks rather weak.
Vyacheslav try to read all the articles you wrote. In this article, you indicate that everything was not smooth. But where is the data for the 70s and 80s; write what has changed in 20 years. Because, modern indicators in comparison with the indicators of the 60s look very, very depressing.

[EvilLion]

I recognize Shpakovsky by name. It is only interesting, but did he do something to improve the situation?