Military Review

In Kiev, announced the Ukrainian origin of the T-14 Armata

186
In Kiev, announced the Ukrainian origin of the T-14 Armata

The promising T-14 Armata tank is not a Russian development, but is of Ukrainian origin. According to Defense Express, “Armata” was allegedly developed on the basis of the Kharkov project “Object 477 Hammer”.


Ukrainian experts claim that the T-14 Armata, positioned by Russia as a “revolutionary tank with active protection, a radar, a 152-mm cannon with an automatic loader and a powerful engine,” is in fact the Ukrainian development of the 80s of the last century. The publication writes that in its concept and the specified characteristics, Armata is no different from the Kharkov Hammer, starting "from the caliber of the gun and the crewless tower, engine power and the presence of active protection." The only difference is the availability of modern electronics, but this is explained in Ukraine as the “30-year technological advancement”.

However, in reality, as in the case of many “new products” of the Russian defense industry, “Armata” is only the implementation of the USSR sunset project. Namely, the project of the Kharkov Design Bureau of Mechanical Engineering named after Morozov Object 477 "Hammer", which began to be processed in the 80s

- say Ukrainian "experts."

According to them, Russia began the development of "Almaty" in the 2000s, when oil prices allowed Russian specialists to gain access to foreign technologies, without which Russia allegedly could not create a modern tank on its own.

The active use of Western components allowed Russian designers from Uralvagonzavod to draw Armata on top of the drawings of the Kharkov Hammer

- writes the edition.

However, the introduction by the collective West of anti-Russian sanctions "for the capture of Crimea" and the cessation of supplies of Western components did not allow Russia to bring "Armata" to a series and supplies to the troops.

All that the Russian military-industrial complex under the Armata project has been able to achieve over 10-15 years is to use up enormous funds, collect experimental samples with various degrees of equipment from stocks of the "pre-sanction era" and transport them along Red Square during the parade once in year

- say Ukrainian experts.
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  1. NF68
    NF68 April 29 2020 16: 23 New
    45
    Who would doubt it.
    1. Sky strike fighter
      Sky strike fighter April 29 2020 16: 33 New
      43
      Defense Express: Russian tank Armata has Ukrainian roots

      This is a diagnosis. To doctors urgently authors of this nonsense.
      HISTORY OF DESIGN

      Since 1990, as part of the Improvement-88 program, the UKBTM design bureau in Nizhny Tagil began work on a new tank of the fourth post-war generation. However, it should be noted that the object “477”, also known as the “Hammer”, was created in Kharkov with the assistance of specialists from Leningrad and Nizhny Tagil. The highlight of the new car was the so-called carriage layout with the installation of a gun in a small uninhabited tower. The entire crew was placed in an armored corps.

      For the guns, they developed a unique reloading system, capable, according to the designers, to develop an unprecedented rate of fire up to 14 rounds per minute. The charging module, made in the form of a rotating drum, contained 10 shots and, if necessary, was replenished from two modules of 16 shots placed on both sides. However, such a system turned out to be too complex and in need of substantial revision. Despite the uninhabited tower, the fact that the crew, ammunition and fuel were placed in the same volume became the most significant drawback. When the armor was broken, the detonation of the ammunition and a fire occurred, the tankers had no chance of rescue.


      The next step forward was made by the specialists of the Leningrad Design Bureau (subsequently Design Bureau Spetsmash). Their “Object 299” was originally created as a universal platform that could serve as a basis for the development of the main battle tank, heavy infantry fighting vehicles, engineering vehicles and anti-tank vehicles. This greatly complicated the design work, but, on the other hand, promised to significantly reduce the cost of manufacturing equipment and facilitate its repair and maintenance.

      When designing the tank, they chose a non-standard layout for the domestic school with the front location of the engine-transmission compartment. Behind him placed an armored capsule with a crew, and in the aft - the fighting compartment.

      As a power plant, a gas turbine engine with a capacity of 1500 liters was originally intended. with. The front wheel drive chassis received 7 track rollers with torsion bar suspension on board.

      The crew was supposed to be placed in the middle of the hull in a total volume. The fighting compartment was created uninhabited, fully automated with the ability to control from crew jobs. To do this, periscope surveillance devices were installed on the roof of the inhabited compartment, which were supplemented by a system of all-round cameras.
      The aft was intended to accommodate a combat (in the form of a tank) or landing (in the form of a heavy infantry fighting vehicle) compartment. The design of the hull and running gear made it possible to equip the Object 299 with a gun of up to 152 mm caliber. All operations with ammunition from firing a shot from stacking to ejecting a pallet liner should have been performed automatically. In the heavy BMP variant, the machine was supposed to be equipped with a combat module with an automatic small-caliber gun.

      However, this project was completed at the stage of testing the first running layout. Perestroika and the collapse of the USSR buried him.


      And here is the real beginning of the design of the T-14 Armata.

      In 2000, Russia decided to terminate cooperation with Ukraine in the development of promising armored vehicles and to begin the independent design of a new tank.

      This is where the matter got off the ground.

      https://aw.mail.ru/armata_history

      So it’s nonsense to call Object 477, whose project ended in failure, the forerunner of Armata.
      1. NF68
        NF68 April 29 2020 16: 35 New
        13
        Quote: Sky Strike fighter
        Defense Express: Russian tank Armata has Ukrainian roots

        This is a diagnosis. To doctors urgently authors of this nonsense.
        HISTORY OF DESIGN

        Since 1990, as part of the Improvement-88 program, the UKBTM design bureau in Nizhny Tagil began work on a new tank of the fourth post-war generation. However, it should be noted that the object “477”, also known as the “Hammer”, was created in Kharkov with the assistance of specialists from Leningrad and Nizhny Tagil. The highlight of the new car was the so-called carriage layout with the installation of a gun in a small uninhabited tower. The entire crew was placed in an armored corps.

        For the guns, they developed a unique reloading system, capable, according to the designers, to develop an unprecedented rate of fire up to 14 rounds per minute. The charging module, made in the form of a rotating drum, contained 10 shots and, if necessary, was replenished from two modules of 16 shots placed on both sides. However, such a system turned out to be too complex and in need of substantial revision. Despite the uninhabited tower, the fact that the crew, ammunition and fuel were placed in the same volume became the most significant drawback. When the armor was broken, the detonation of the ammunition and a fire occurred, the tankers had no chance of rescue.


        The next step forward was made by the specialists of the Leningrad Design Bureau (subsequently Design Bureau Spetsmash). Their “Object 299” was originally created as a universal platform that could serve as a basis for the development of the main battle tank, heavy infantry fighting vehicles, engineering vehicles and anti-tank vehicles. This greatly complicated the design work, but, on the other hand, promised to significantly reduce the cost of manufacturing equipment and facilitate its repair and maintenance.

        When designing the tank, they chose a non-standard layout for the domestic school with the front location of the engine-transmission compartment. Behind him placed an armored capsule with a crew, and in the aft - the fighting compartment.

        As a power plant, a gas turbine engine with a capacity of 1500 liters was originally intended. with. The front wheel drive chassis received 7 track rollers with torsion bar suspension on board.

        The crew was supposed to be placed in the middle of the hull in a total volume. The fighting compartment was created uninhabited, fully automated with the ability to control from crew jobs. To do this, periscope surveillance devices were installed on the roof of the inhabited compartment, which were supplemented by a system of all-round cameras.
        The aft was intended to accommodate a combat (in the form of a tank) or landing (in the form of a heavy infantry fighting vehicle) compartment. The design of the hull and running gear made it possible to equip the Object 299 with a gun of up to 152 mm caliber. All operations with ammunition from firing a shot from stacking to ejecting a pallet liner should have been performed automatically. In the heavy BMP variant, the machine was supposed to be equipped with a combat module with an automatic small-caliber gun.

        However, this project was completed at the stage of testing the first running layout. Perestroika and the collapse of the USSR buried him.


        And here is the real beginning of the design of the T-14 Armata.

        In 2000, Russia decided to terminate cooperation with Ukraine in the development of promising armored vehicles and to begin the independent design of a new tank.

        This is where the matter got off the ground.

        https://aw.mail.ru/armata_history

        So it’s nonsense to call Object 477, whose project ended in failure, the forerunner of Armata.


        Where so many doctors to get? This is not the only such statement by the descendants of the great ukrov.
        1. Vlp8
          Vlp8 April 29 2020 23: 14 New
          +5
          Duc if Poroshenko and Co. They said that Russia was Ukraine’s successor because Russia was Kiev ... fellow
        2. Hagen
          Hagen April 30 2020 06: 07 New
          +6
          Quote: NF68
          Where so many doctors to get?

          And after all, the point is not even that the Ukrainian Nazis want to take over all the achievements of thought that they can reach. It’s that they don’t understand how pathetic they look in their current state compared to what they are trying to claim. There are already conceptual problems on the face. In general, it can be stated that practically not a single large joint project with Ukraine over the past 30 years has really "flown". And it is unlikely that in the next 30 years something will change dramatically. There, doctors will no longer help ...
      2. Egor-dis
        Egor-dis April 29 2020 19: 21 New
        16
        Quote: Sky Strike fighter
        This is a diagnosis. To doctors urgently authors of this nonsense.

        It is no longer necessary to see doctors urgently. This is not an acute phase but a chronic one. Standard reaction of ethnic carriers of Khutro civilization. First, try to cheat (remember the banter about the unfinished / cardboard / plywood / stalling tank at the parade on May 9), then, when throwing a brown substance does not bring any result, declare that it is all theirs, only they were "stolen" from them. Country name, tank, first constitution, etc. by the list.
      3. Roman123567
        Roman123567 April 30 2020 08: 37 New
        -10
        The highlight of the new car was the so-called carriage layout with the installation of a gun in a small uninhabited tower. The entire crew was placed in an armored corps.


        "Armata" is only the implementation of the project of the decline of the USSR


        So it’s nonsense to call Object 477, whose project ended in failure, the forerunner of Armata.


        Something I wrote from you did not see what is nonsense ..
        On the contrary, at first I laughed at the article, and after reading your quotes I was convinced that, in fact, the developments, it turns out, were still Soviet ..
      4. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr April 30 2020 09: 03 New
        +1
        Quote: Sky Strike fighter
        So it’s nonsense to call Object 477, whose project ended in failure, the forerunner of Armata.
        The forerunner of Armata was object 195.
        1. Clerk
          Clerk 1 May 2020 12: 59 New
          +4
          Quote: Bad_gr
          The forerunner of Armata was object 195.

          Not a forerunner, but a parallel / previous project. The Armata project is a project of a unified heavy tracked chassis for the entire armored vehicle family (tanks, self-propelled guns, TBTR, BREM, etc.), and not a project of a tank with an uninhabited turret. The uninhabited tower was not even the first and the only one who came up with the Ukrainians. Their "Hammers", "Boxers" and "Rebels" are just an outrage against the T-80. The T-14 has nothing to do with its layout, which has its roots in the T-62 \ 64. is based not on her and the Kharkov school, but on the original project "Object 299" of the Leningrad Kirov Plant and the Russian Design Bureau "Spetsmash": https://topwar.ru/144776-obekt-299-tank-predelnyh-parametrov-i-semeystvo- tehniki.html


          ... so let Svidomo do not breach!
    2. major147
      major147 April 29 2020 17: 00 New
      33
      Quote: NF68
      Who would doubt it.

      With this kind of stuffing-out, I always have the same question, so if they are so "smart", why are they so poor then? recourse ?
      1. 210ox
        210ox April 29 2020 17: 07 New
        +4
        By the way, they admit that the forerunner is in the USSR (not Ukraine). So what's wrong? But the title of the article is awful ". However, in reality, as in the case of many" new products "of the Russian defense industry," Armata "is only the implementation of the project of the decline of the USSR."
        1. major147
          major147 April 29 2020 17: 11 New
          12
          Quote: 210ox
          By the way, they recognize that the forerunner is in the USSR (not Ukraine). So what is wrong? But the title of the article is awful.

          I did not see the abbreviation of the USSR in the speeches of the "Ukrainian experts" ...
          1. Lelek
            Lelek April 29 2020 18: 12 New
            +9
            Quote: major147
            I did not see the abbreviation of the USSR in the speeches of the "Ukrainian experts" ...

            hi
            And it cannot be there, because according to the opinions of the same "experts" everything that has been invented in the world is the products of the mind and skill of the Sumerians, exactly everything - from ancient pebbled cymbals to the latest achievements in rocketry.

            And they copied the forms and functionality of "Armata" from the ancestors of hedgehogs. So, in the near future, even more amusing historical works of these (excuse the expression) "experts" will be revealed to us.
            1. Shkodnick
              Shkodnick April 30 2020 21: 01 New
              +3
              Quote: Lelek
              Quote: major147
              I did not see the abbreviation of the USSR in the speeches of the "Ukrainian experts" ...

              hi
              And it cannot be there, because according to the opinions of the same "experts" everything that has been invented in the world is the products of the mind and skill of the Sumerians, exactly everything - from ancient pebbled cymbals to the latest achievements in rocketry.

              And they copied the forms and functionality of "Armata" from the ancestors of hedgehogs. So, in the near future, even more amusing historical works of these (excuse the expression) "experts" will be revealed to us.

              They decided not to continue Hammer's developments, but to follow their own, independent path and created something more "serious and terrible" ... from what was at hand in the carpentry and locksmith shop.
          2. 210ox
            210ox April 29 2020 19: 58 New
            0
            We carefully read the article.
        2. zenion
          zenion April 30 2020 14: 21 New
          +2
          Where did they get the idea of ​​how to create such a tank in the USSR? Everything is very simple. When submarines in the Black Sea sank to the very depths, they noticed an unidentified object of unknown configuration. Then they attached an unknown length of cable to an object of an unidentified configuration in depth. When extracting this device into the territory of Crimea, which at that time was Russian, they found inside the paper with the letters Morse code. When the USSR stole the key to this alphabet in the USA, it turned out that this was the machine of the Black Sea diggers at that time. They drowned it, so that future generations would not make a tank of it. It was very similar to a tank, a roof overhead, in an armored capsule, so that pieces of the eruption rock would not fall on their heads. And what looked like the trunk was actually the hilt of a shovel that dug the soil and threw it towards the Caspian Sea, creating the Caucasus Mountains. That's the whole secret of how they created a tank similar to the digging machine of ancient ukrov, which was pulled by fifty oxen. At that time, such cars were apparently invisible, but the rest of the cars were eaten by moths.
        3. Whiteidol
          Whiteidol April 30 2020 19: 29 New
          +1
          I will say more .. Armata, this is a modernized Bastion)))
      2. 1976AG
        1976AG April 29 2020 17: 29 New
        13
        Quote: major147
        Quote: NF68
        Who would doubt it.

        With this kind of stuffing-out, I always have the same question, so if they are so "smart", why are they so poor then? recourse ?

        Well, actually smart are often poor. The wealthy become mostly arrogant and cunning. Another question is more relevant here. If the T-14 has Ukrainian roots, then why do they themselves sit without modern tanks? And the fact that the T-14 is being tested for a long time is not surprising. The T-14 is not just a new tank, it is a new concept for the use of tanks. This is not just an armored unit, it is a whole command center.
      3. avg
        avg April 29 2020 18: 37 New
        +8
        I always have the same question with this kind of stuffing-out coming out, so if they are so "smart", why are they so poor recourse?

        The poor because they are very honest and still feed everyone. And they came up with Armata, but for a long time they didn’t tell anyone about it because they were modest and very shy. repeat
        1. zenion
          zenion 2 May 2020 13: 34 New
          0
          They didn’t tell because they called her in a different way, then in the third, they did not agree and forgot that it was all and why the argument?
      4. Mwg
        Mwg April 30 2020 03: 54 New
        0
        What are you ?! So the Russians stole everything !!! ))))))))
      5. Roman123567
        Roman123567 April 30 2020 08: 38 New
        0
        And we??)))))
    3. venik
      venik April 29 2020 17: 11 New
      +4
      Quote: NF68
      Who would doubt it.

      =====
      good And in general: All the best (in the Universe) has been invented (in this - I believe ... In the context - "invented"!) And done (but this is no longer very hard to believe, over the past 30 years I cannot believe from the word "in general "!) exclusively in Ukraine !!! lol laughing
      PS In short, as in the "bearded" anecdote: "...By the way! X-rays are also is our invention!...".
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. antivirus
      antivirus April 29 2020 17: 33 New
      +3
      and I was there, honey, I drank beer, flowed down my mustache but didn’t get into my mouth ...
    6. Pravodel
      Pravodel April 29 2020 17: 56 New
      +5
      By itself. After all, Ukraine also dug up the Black Sea, as it invented the wheel. Wind them ....
    7. Sergey39
      Sergey39 April 29 2020 18: 13 New
      +1
      Quote: NF68
      Who would doubt it.

      Well, if so, let them put up for sale!
    8. Sergey Averchenkov
      Sergey Averchenkov April 29 2020 22: 55 New
      0
      Great answer.
    9. Nick
      Nick April 30 2020 15: 41 New
      +1
      Quote: NF68
      Who would doubt it.

      Dill instead of brains affects intelligence not for the better. Even if we do not take into account that the T-14 is UVZ's own development, the Molot project is also Russian and not Ukrainian, since it was developed in the USSR, of which Ukraine was a part. Considering that Russia was recognized as the legal successor of the USSR, international institutions and above all the UN and its Security Council, then all Soviet developments are also the property of Russia. Simple logic. In a word, the intellectual degradation of the expert community in Ukraine is obvious. Experts were replaced by XPers.
  2. NEXUS
    NEXUS April 29 2020 16: 27 New
    23
    The promising T-14 Armata tank is not a Russian design, but is of Ukrainian origin. According to Defense Express, "Armata" is allegedly developed on the basis of the Kharkov project "Object 477 Hammer"

    So, after all, the Ukrainians themselves shouted in three throats in the year 15, but Armata is cardboard. fellow
    1. Stalllker
      Stalllker April 29 2020 16: 40 New
      12
      Why, they just didn’t yell and continue to yell. It is strange that they do not understand that no one "buys" their delirium.
      1. Titus_2
        Titus_2 April 29 2020 17: 03 New
        +2
        I already hoped that our eyes were opened to us (a joke), and in fact of their delirium ... we have less discussion topics.
      2. venik
        venik April 29 2020 17: 35 New
        +3
        Quote: Stalllker
        It is strange that they do not understand that no one "buys" their delirium.

        ======
        Yes, understand, then maybe they understand .... That's just woundedhe really hypertrophied self-esteem (actively fueled by the media and "national-patriotic" education) - hinders "shut up"!
    2. sergo1914
      sergo1914 April 29 2020 16: 45 New
      +9
      Quote: NEXUS
      The promising T-14 Armata tank is not a Russian design, but is of Ukrainian origin. According to Defense Express, "Armata" is allegedly developed on the basis of the Kharkov project "Object 477 Hammer"

      So, after all, the Ukrainians themselves shouted in three throats in the year 15, but Armata is cardboard. fellow


      So there is a basis. They burned them in thousands. There are all fields and forests in the burnt and blown Armats. There is nowhere to enter.
    3. Sky strike fighter
      Sky strike fighter April 29 2020 16: 51 New
      +5
      Quote: NEXUS
      The promising T-14 Armata tank is not a Russian design, but is of Ukrainian origin. According to Defense Express, "Armata" is allegedly developed on the basis of the Kharkov project "Object 477 Hammer"

      So, after all, the Ukrainians themselves shouted in three throats in the year 15, but Armata is cardboard. fellow

      So maybe their forerunner was conceived as a cardboard tank, they just confused it with our T-14.
      1. Alf
        Alf April 29 2020 20: 04 New
        +4
        Quote: Sky Strike fighter
        So maybe their forerunner was conceived as a cardboard tank, they just confused it with our T-14.

        An interesting photo somehow came across.

        I wonder what THIS is?
        1. Sky strike fighter
          Sky strike fighter April 29 2020 20: 07 New
          +1
          Dump of old rusty tanks.
          1. Alf
            Alf April 29 2020 20: 09 New
            +4
            Quote: Sky Strike fighter
            Dump of old rusty tanks.

            I understand, I want to show off wit. Not always out of place. You cannot answer what kind of tank it is with a similar tower ...
            1. Sky strike fighter
              Sky strike fighter April 29 2020 20: 15 New
              +2
              The ancient Sumerian tank Armata, which participated in the excavations during the creation of the Black Sea.
              1. Alf
                Alf April 29 2020 20: 19 New
                +4
                Quote: Sky Strike fighter
                The ancient Sumerian tank Armata, which participated in the excavations during the creation of the Black Sea.

                Clearly, continue to joke further, if you do not know, say so.
                1. Sky strike fighter
                  Sky strike fighter April 29 2020 20: 22 New
                  -1
                  So enlighten, introduce to knowledge.
                  1. Bad_gr
                    Bad_gr April 30 2020 09: 20 New
                    +1
                    American development, the series did not go.

        2. Astra wild
          Astra wild April 29 2020 20: 46 New
          +1
          Something rusty
          1. Alf
            Alf April 29 2020 20: 54 New
            +5
            Quote: Astra wild
            Something rusty

            What, damn it, everyone is smart today. I ask Russian in white, what kind of tank is this? You do not know, do not write better, you will seem smarter.
            1. Stalllker
              Stalllker April 30 2020 01: 43 New
              -1
              Where did you see the tank, at best, the "model" of the tank in iron
            2. Astra wild
              Astra wild April 30 2020 18: 34 New
              0
              "Russian in white, what kind of tank is this?" Have you ever thought: what kind of fig for a WOMAN to know what kind of tank it is?
              1. Alf
                Alf April 30 2020 21: 00 New
                +1
                Quote: Astra wild
                "Russian in white, what kind of tank is this?" Have you ever thought: what kind of fig for a WOMAN to know what kind of tank it is?

                Then what does a woman who does not want to know do on a tank sub-forum? Flaunts his illiteracy? If you don’t know, why are you trying to answer?
        3. Marconi41
          Marconi41 April 29 2020 22: 25 New
          +1
          Quote: Alf
          Quote: Sky Strike fighter
          So maybe their forerunner was conceived as a cardboard tank, they just confused it with our T-14.

          An interesting photo somehow came across.

          I wonder what THIS is?

          Really interesting photo. Judging by the rust, the product is old, but that the tower is uninhabited is a fact. If not installation, then it’s almost a sensation.
          1. Alf
            Alf April 29 2020 22: 55 New
            +1
            Quote: Marconi41
            Really interesting photo. Judging by the rust, the product is old, but that the tower is uninhabited is a fact. If not installation, then it’s almost a sensation.

            In the background is something similar to the M-113. On the left is the Abrams tower. The board of this miracle is also interesting, along the entire length it is even, reminiscent of the board of Almaty. Yes, and three hatches in front of the tower ...
            1. zenion
              zenion 2 May 2020 13: 58 New
              0
              A self-propelled artillery gun that didn’t go, because the Americans never had any tanks or self-propelled guns.
          2. Guru
            Guru April 30 2020 00: 15 New
            +2
            Broaden your horizons, look around. What surrounds it as you said "Ukrainian miracle" wink
            In the background is seen the English Centurion 7 \ 1, and Challenger seems nearby. This is definitely NOT UKRAINE
            1. Alf
              Alf April 30 2020 13: 00 New
              -1
              Quote: Guru
              and Challenger seems nearby.

              Challenger with such a tower? Maybe expand your horizons?
        4. Hermit21
          Hermit21 April 29 2020 23: 03 New
          +4
          Abrams TTB - running model Abrashi with a carriage layout
          1. Alf
            Alf April 29 2020 23: 08 New
            +1
            Quote: Hermit21
            Abrams TTB - running model Abrashi with a carriage layout

            Thank you Alexey! Now everything fell into place. And then there are only a few who are smart and knowledgeable, but stupid wits, at least ... eat. hi
            1. Hermit21
              Hermit21 April 29 2020 23: 14 New
              +1
              Yes, not for sho. I am surprised that no one recognized him, especially in the background is clearly Western technology, not counting the old 72
              1. Alf
                Alf April 29 2020 23: 20 New
                +2
                Quote: Hermit21
                Yes, not for sho. I am surprised that no one recognized him, especially in the background is clearly Western technology, not counting the old 72

                So I thought about that, how could Armata, and even in such an obscene form, be among the "foreign cars"?
                1. Stalllker
                  Stalllker April 30 2020 01: 47 New
                  -1
                  Where did you see the armature there?
        5. D16
          D16 April 30 2020 07: 36 New
          +1
          I wonder what THIS is?

          This is an American experimental tank with an uninhabited tower. Type I do not remember, made on the basis of Abrams in a single copy in the 80s. http://by24.org/2017/07/09/russian_armata_really_is_old_american_abrams_experimental_tank/
        6. Nick
          Nick April 30 2020 15: 58 New
          +1
          Quote: Alf
          Quote: Sky Strike fighter
          So maybe their forerunner was conceived as a cardboard tank, they just confused it with our T-14.

          An interesting photo somehow came across.

          I wonder what THIS is?

          Well certainly not armata
    4. major147
      major147 April 29 2020 17: 01 New
      +3
      Quote: NEXUS
      So, after all, the Ukrainians themselves shouted in three throats in the year 15, but Armata is cardboard.

      It was, it was !!! tongue
    5. Peter is not the first
      Peter is not the first April 29 2020 21: 30 New
      +3
      No, mistaken cardboard armor is not a minus for the Ukrainians, but a plus. Remember the cardboard tank of the Kryvyi Rih tank designer of thirteen years old, and how he taught Kharkov specialists:
  3. Prahlad
    Prahlad April 29 2020 16: 28 New
    -2
    There are some similarities in the project.
    1. Stalllker
      Stalllker April 29 2020 16: 41 New
      +6
      All tanks are alike, and what ????
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA April 29 2020 17: 19 New
        +5
        Quote: Stalllker
        All tanks are alike

        1. Voyager
          Voyager April 29 2020 18: 14 New
          +1
          Object 269?
        2. Stalllker
          Stalllker April 30 2020 01: 35 New
          0
          What is fundamentally different from other tanks from other tanks? The same tracks, body, tower, armor
    2. Lopatov
      Lopatov April 29 2020 16: 41 New
      12
      One tank gun, two tracks ... Indeed, the resemblance
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I April 29 2020 16: 49 New
        +5
        Quote: Spade
        One tank gun, two tracks ... Indeed, the resemblance

        Yes, that's not all! When one gun and two tracks is easier (!) ... easier to count! And when are two guns and 4 tracks? belay You can go crazy! wassat but still called a tank! request
      2. venik
        venik April 29 2020 17: 41 New
        +3
        Quote: Spade
        One tank gun, two tracks ... Indeed, the resemblance

        =======
        They forgot about the motor! wink There, all tanks have a motor with a transmission and, of course, HEADLIGHTS! So what not just similarity, but you can say - FULL similarity !!! laughing
    3. Nick
      Nick April 30 2020 16: 00 New
      0
      Quote: Prahlad
      There are some similarities in the project.

      Yeah, caterpillars, gun, armor ...
  4. Crane
    Crane April 29 2020 16: 28 New
    15
    And why did you forget the copyright lawsuit to roll out and trillionth compensation? Overlooked! Hail!
    1. svp67
      svp67 April 29 2020 16: 40 New
      +6
      Quote: Crane
      And why did you forget the copyright lawsuit to roll out and trillionth compensation? Overlooked! Hail!

      This will be the next step.
    2. Stalllker
      Stalllker April 29 2020 16: 42 New
      +6
      Shh, no need to talk about it rumor, otherwise they will really wassat
    3. venik
      venik April 29 2020 17: 45 New
      +2
      Quote: Crane
      And why did you forget the copyright lawsuit to roll out and trillionth compensation? Overlooked! Hail!

      =======
      Well, who, Nikolai pulls you by the tongue? Well, still "not evening" ... Someone can your comment read the...... Yes, and "need to"! laughing drinks
  5. knn54
    knn54 April 29 2020 16: 28 New
    11
    Even at the end of the day, there were developments in the USSR that were ahead of their time.
    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I April 29 2020 16: 56 New
      +8
      Yes, and where does the USSR, when the age-old ykp built, for example, submarines before the formation of the Union!?
      1. Ravil_Asnafovich
        Ravil_Asnafovich April 29 2020 17: 29 New
        +5
        Of course they built, somehow it was necessary to cross the Black Sea, which the Ukrainians themselves dug up fool .
        1. Range
          Range April 29 2020 18: 10 New
          +4
          Exactly. When they dug up the Black Sea, they dug out Armata there, and the Russian Vanka took and stole it with all the drawings inside. So Armata ukrovskaya is 100% full. yes
      2. Peter is not the first
        Peter is not the first April 29 2020 21: 34 New
        +1
        Yes, and where does the USSR, when the age-old ykp built, for example, submarines before the formation of the Union!

        Before the formation of the Union? wink Little do you remember, they were building "submarine boats" even before Russia appeared. But with Russia it is already a little more complicated. drinks
  6. Maas
    Maas April 29 2020 16: 28 New
    -2
    I always knew that)
    1. Sky strike fighter
      Sky strike fighter April 29 2020 16: 53 New
      +5
      Quote: Maas
      I always knew that)

      Here is the first candidacy for a vacation in a boarding house.
  7. Kerensky
    Kerensky April 29 2020 16: 28 New
    +8
    Can you already see the Hammer on Khreshchatyk?
    1. ioan-e
      ioan-e April 29 2020 16: 35 New
      +5
      Quote: Kerensky
      Can you already see the Hammer on Khreshchatyk?

      There you can no longer see the "dung", let alone "Armata")))))))
    2. Dym71
      Dym71 April 29 2020 16: 39 New
      +3
      Quote: Kerensky
      Can you already see the Hammer on Khreshchatyk?

      You can, here is his frame bully
    3. Sky strike fighter
      Sky strike fighter April 29 2020 16: 55 New
      +3
      Quote: Kerensky
      Can you already see the Hammer on Khreshchatyk?

      Sickle and Hammer in many government buildings. Ukraine’s buildings are still hanging. Of course you can.
      1. venik
        venik April 29 2020 18: 13 New
        +1
        Quote: Sky Strike fighter
        Quote: Kerensky
        Can you already see the Hammer on Khreshchatyk?

        Sickle and Hammer in many government buildings. Ukraine’s buildings are still hanging. Of course you can.

        ========
        This is like a building opposite the Kiev City Hall (or city administration?), Where the active "decommunicator", aka ex-boxer Klitschko, sits:

        And this is the Motherland Monument:

        The "national patriots" were all going to remove the coat of arms of the USSR, but it seems that they "didn't get it" .... high!
        1. APASUS
          APASUS April 29 2020 18: 22 New
          +4
          Quote: venik
          The "national patriots" were all going to remove the coat of arms of the USSR, but they didn't seem to get there .... Very high!

          It costs real money, but there is a lot of it ............ here it turned out, it turns out the best way to grind!
    4. venik
      venik April 29 2020 17: 46 New
      0
      Quote: Kerensky
      Can you already see the Hammer on Khreshchatyk?

      ======
      Even - TEST! wassat
  8. Lord of the Sith
    Lord of the Sith April 29 2020 16: 34 New
    10
    Ukrainians invented the first wheel!

    So all the transport on planet Earth is of Ukrainian origin, except for American laughing
    And try to refute this heresy))
    1. venik
      venik April 29 2020 18: 18 New
      +3
      Quote: Lord of the Sith
      And try to refute this heresy))

      =======
      WHAT FOR? When a person is silent (especially - "meaningfully") - try to determine whether he is smart or not! Well, as soon as heresy begins to carry ... Everything IMMEDIATELY becomes understandable!
  9. awdrgy
    awdrgy April 29 2020 16: 34 New
    +8
    The pyramids were built. The sea was dug. Now T 14 is done. So far, everything is logical.
    1. major147
      major147 April 29 2020 17: 04 New
      +9
      Quote: awdrgy
      The pyramids were built. The sea was dug. Now T 14 is done. So far, everything is logical.


      How not to remember repeat belay
  10. Fat
    Fat April 29 2020 16: 36 New
    +2
    The message is as short as it is timely. Yes on the "drum" to whom in the "horse" head the inspiration came ... If there was such a project, then we do not see a prototype or a model, Russian specimens sometimes drill the ground ... And when will we see the Soviet-Ukrainian achievements? Nu-nu ...
  11. svp67
    svp67 April 29 2020 16: 38 New
    12
    in fact, it is the Ukrainian development of the 80s of the last century.
    Ukrainian development in the 80s of the last century ?????? Then there was no such country as Ukraine ...
    1. Mabius
      Mabius April 29 2020 16: 49 New
      15
      Quote: svp67
      in fact, it is the Ukrainian development of the 80s of the last century.
      Ukrainian development in the 80s of the last century ?????? Then there was no such country as Ukraine ...

      The USSR was a rich republic with space, shipbuilding, tank building, etc. industry and high technology that were built by the entire Soviet people .. And where is all this now tse neuropa ..? Ugh damn it’s not even funny ..
      1. major147
        major147 April 29 2020 17: 06 New
        +7
        Quote: Mabius
        Ugh damn it’s not even funny ..

        For that they now have gay parades lol
        1. Mabius
          Mabius April 29 2020 18: 06 New
          11
          Quote: major147
          Quote: Mabius
          Ugh damn it’s not even funny ..

          For that they now have gay parades lol

          Yes, to hell with gay men and other goat security .. For what all destroyed, which they built and created the whole Union?
          Even in the RSFSR, these high-tech enterprises were not ..
          That's what is scary and insulting and we are still to blame .. Litter pancake negative
    2. LeonidL
      LeonidL April 29 2020 19: 17 New
      +1
      Of course it wasn’t !!!! But try to drag this Svidomo Ukrainians - that peas against the wall, even if the count on the head is comic, but it will jump and scream your own!
      1. Mabius
        Mabius April 29 2020 20: 25 New
        +5
        Quote: LeonidL
        Of course it wasn’t !!!! But try to drag this Svidomo Ukrainians - that peas against the wall, even if the count on the head is comic, but it will jump and scream your own!

        Well, not everyone, many people understand everything, but they are used to the tactic of adhering to the tactics "My house is on the edge, I don't know anything .." And they are simply afraid, the Bandera members .. Previously, SMERSH protected them and cleaned them up .. advisers came in large numbers from the crones and from abroad .. They destroyed everything and again the "Walk-Pole" ..
        But we do not give up ..
  12. Avior
    Avior April 29 2020 16: 41 New
    0
    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Объект_477
    She did not understand what and how. smile
    but these are not unnamed Ukrainian experts said
  13. Onotollah
    Onotollah April 29 2020 16: 44 New
    +6
    "Ukrainian experts" I think it sounds a little funny, what do you think?
    1. Mabius
      Mabius April 29 2020 16: 56 New
      +6
      Quote: Onotolle
      "Ukrainian experts" I think it sounds a little funny, what do you think?

      Now their "main experts" are Westerners (former goat herders and gastro-beaters) ... angry
      1. Crane
        Crane April 29 2020 19: 17 New
        +1
        But no! Do not call the rogue offensive words! :)
    2. Fat
      Fat April 29 2020 17: 53 New
      +2
      I don't think it's funny. One touch, Soviet ... But how does it "sound"? ...
      Something like this: "We would have done better, but the USSR Ministry of Defense did not allocate more funds for R&D" ...
      1. Albert1988
        Albert1988 April 29 2020 18: 51 New
        +2
        Quote: Thick
        Something like this: "We would have done better, but the USSR Ministry of Defense did not allocate more funds for R&D" ...

        It was something like that - the Kharkovites began to do something a lot with their hammer-boxers, that the USSR Ministry of Defense switched to a more promising project - "Improvement 88", but the USSR, alas, died ... Nevertheless, the fate of the projects is indicative - the hammer -boxer-note has rotted in Ukraine, but from Improvement 88, first object 195 grew, and then an armata.
        1. Fat
          Fat April 29 2020 20: 04 New
          +2
          Quote: Albert1988
          Quote: Thick
          Something like this: "We would have done better, but the USSR Ministry of Defense did not allocate more funds for R&D" ...

          It was something like that - the Kharkovites began to do something a lot with their hammer-boxers, that the USSR Ministry of Defense switched to a more promising project - "Improvement 88", but the USSR, alas, died ... Nevertheless, the fate of the projects is indicative - the hammer -boxer-note has rotted in Ukraine, but from Improvement 88, first object 195 grew, and then an armata.

          YES! You are right project "Armata" - one of the "surviving" promising, well ... at least it came to "iron" ...
          1. Albert1988
            Albert1988 April 29 2020 20: 34 New
            +2
            Quote: Thick
            the Armata project is one of the "surviving" promising

            Rather, a direct descendant of one of the survivors)))
            In general, I am surprised at the resilience of our specialist tank builders - the first 2 prototypes of the 195 object (called the T-95 from the Israeli press) were embodied in metal in the early 2000s! Literally after the worst crisis!
    3. Range
      Range April 29 2020 18: 17 New
      +2
      Quote: Onotolle
      "Ukrainian experts" seems to me ...


      This will be worse than the "British Scientists". yes
      1. Fat
        Fat April 29 2020 20: 07 New
        0
        Quote: Spectrum
        Quote: Onotolle
        "Ukrainian experts" seems to me ...


        This will be worse than the "British Scientists". yes

        No one will ever re-establish British scientists by definition. request wassat
  14. Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin April 29 2020 16: 49 New
    0
    According to statements by Western journalists, the T-14 Armata was copied from an American-German project called MBT-70, aka KPz-70. The media claim that the tank has external similarities and a similar layout scheme, while nobody cares that the MBT-70 began to be developed in 1960, after receiving information about the promising T-64, and curtailed the project in 1968 because of the large prices and disagreements between the USA and Germany. Further work was divided, and from the year 70, the United States worked to reduce the cost by calling the prototype XM803, but without Germany. There are also significant layout differences ... MBT-70, aka KPz-70 and XM803 had three tankers, like Armata, but all crew members were in the tower, not in the hull! This was carried out by means of an individual driver capsule, stabilized in a horizontal plane. And now a question for you, where is the crew of “Almaty”? laughing Ukrainians are late.
    1. boris epstein
      boris epstein April 29 2020 17: 24 New
      +6
      Victory always has many fathers, and defeat is always an orphan. Who just doesn't want to be the fathers of "Armata"!
    2. Fat
      Fat April 29 2020 18: 09 New
      +1
      Quote: Gennady Fomkin
      According to statements by Western journalists, the T-14 Armata was copied from an American-German project called MBT-70, aka KPz-70. The media claim that the tank has external similarities and a similar layout scheme, while nobody cares that the MBT-70 began to be developed in 1960, after receiving information about the promising T-64, and curtailed the project in 1968 because of the large prices and disagreements between the USA and Germany. Further work was divided, and from the year 70, the United States worked to reduce the cost by calling the prototype XM803, but without Germany. There are also significant layout differences ... MBT-70, aka KPz-70 and XM803 had three tankers, like Armata, but all crew members were in the tower, not in the hull! This was carried out by means of an individual driver capsule, stabilized in a horizontal plane. And now a question for you, where is the crew of “Almaty”? laughing Ukrainians are late.

      Genadiy! all this is very superficial ... An automatic loader and a remote firing point (turret) This is not uncommon even at the end of the Second World War. About the US atomic tanks, the article was a couple of days ago. And ..
      "And now the question ..." ... so your old card for the SHOW ... especially since you and the "older" info have been lost ....)))
    3. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr April 30 2020 09: 40 New
      +1
      Quote: Gennady Fomkin
      MBT-70, aka KPz-70


  15. Jarserge
    Jarserge April 29 2020 16: 52 New
    +5
    The idiocy of "Svidomo" power is off the charts .....
  16. Pvi1206
    Pvi1206 April 29 2020 16: 57 New
    +1
    And why is there no such tank in / in Ukraine? ... After all, it was Ukraine that dug up the Black Sea ... this is known all over the world ...
  17. Bolo
    Bolo April 29 2020 17: 05 New
    +1
    And they dug up the Black Sea ...
  18. Retvizan 8
    Retvizan 8 April 29 2020 17: 05 New
    +4
    Yes, forget you rabid, the words "Ukrainian", in the ownership of everything that was developed or produced before the nineties.
    Soviet is-SOVIET !!!
  19. boris epstein
    boris epstein April 29 2020 17: 07 New
    +5
    "According to them, Russia began developing the" Armata "in the 2000s, when oil prices allowed Russian specialists to gain access to foreign technologies, without which Russia allegedly could not create a modern tank on its own."
    With the same success, the brainchild of Morozov T-64 can not be called a Ukrainian tank. Track rollers from Kurgan, PKT from Izhevsk, KPVT from Kovrov, a gun from Voronezh, electronics from Zelenograd, optics from Lomonosov. Yours is just a horizontally opposed diesel engine that has not been brought to mind until now.
  20. Bolo
    Bolo April 29 2020 17: 07 New
    +7
    - Where do we have the Ukrainian designer of aromas?
    “In the sixth chamber, next to Napoleon and the leader of the Sumerians.”
  21. Retvizan 8
    Retvizan 8 April 29 2020 17: 10 New
    +5
    ... "All that the Russian military-industrial complex under the Armata project has been honored to do in 10-15 years is to master huge funds" ...
    Well, they got their hackneyed record, about the Crimean bridge they bleated too.))))
  22. cherkas.oe
    cherkas.oe April 29 2020 17: 12 New
    +4
    Lord, what is there to discuss? If Jesus Christ Himself is Ukrainian, then is it possible that some sort of "Armata" is purely Russian? You don't even need to spend time discussing this axiom.
  23. igrok2570
    igrok2570 April 29 2020 17: 28 New
    +2
    If these guys dug up the Black Sea, then they could not talk about the tank. We ourselves guessed
  24. Izotovp
    Izotovp April 29 2020 17: 32 New
    +3
    So soon they will compete with China who invented what and who has the coolest thing.
    1. Clerk
      Clerk 2 May 2020 11: 27 New
      +4
      Come know, look in the future they will begin to claim that Zaporizhzhya Cossacks invented gunpowder laughing ... and the Chinese copied it from them laughing !
  25. gabonskijfront
    gabonskijfront April 29 2020 17: 32 New
    +3
    Ukromentalism is an eerie combination of Ukrainian great-power chauvinism and peripheral rural nationalism.
    1. Crimean blogger
      Crimean blogger April 29 2020 18: 04 New
      +3
      belligerent racism, xenophobia in relation to "foreign" national and social groups, great-power Ukrainian chauvinism, turning into genocide, rural nationalism. This is FASCISM.
  26. The comment was deleted.
  27. Tycoon
    Tycoon April 29 2020 17: 53 New
    +1
    Dear author, when you write such posts, give direct links to the publication ..... Otherwise, you can translate the text into Russian in different ways .....
  28. Serwid
    Serwid April 29 2020 17: 56 New
    +2
    Even if it was in fact, what does modern Ukraine have to do with it? It was the USSR.
  29. Crimean blogger
    Crimean blogger April 29 2020 18: 00 New
    +2
    Damask steel or stronghold or whatever they call their encephal or or t-84 supposedly the coolest tank in fact, the T-80, which was produced exclusively in Leningrad at the Kirov Plant. There are a lot of T-80 in storage depots, they take the hull from t-80, they put a tower from the t-64 and it turns out the newest Ukrainian tank t-84 !!!!!! And they built all the time one (1) such a tank and everywhere they boast that this is their development. No one doubts that they guessed so and collected from two one. But what does Ukraine and Armata have to do with it? There is not a single spare part produced in Ukraine.
    1. Albert1988
      Albert1988 April 29 2020 18: 56 New
      +2
      Quote: Crimean blogger
      , they take the hull from the t-80, put the turret from the t-64 and it turns out the latest Ukrainian tank t-84 !!!!!!

      Why - the first 10 T-84 towers had their own T-80s, only with a "new" body kit. but for the T-84 "Oplot-M" they made a welded turret in the manner of the T-90 ... But the quality is unknown ...
      Well, for themselves, they built 1 tank, but for Thailand - as many as 49 already! But the truth then, most likely, the whole T-80UD ended ...
  30. Magnat231
    Magnat231 April 29 2020 18: 09 New
    +1
    Yes, this is a diagnosis, and do not say that these are separate specimens, there the whole country has gone from coils
  31. cniza
    cniza April 29 2020 18: 16 New
    +3
    The active use of Western components allowed Russian designers from Uralvagonzavod to draw Armata on top of the drawings of the Kharkov Hammer


    Funny, and what they did themselves:

    1. Sky strike fighter
      Sky strike fighter April 29 2020 18: 26 New
      +6
      That's bad luck. Turchinov was also "built" in the USSR. what Will have to break too. request
      1. cniza
        cniza April 29 2020 18: 30 New
        10
        It’s hard for them to explain.

  32. Andre
    Andre April 29 2020 18: 43 New
    +2
    Let them do it. We will see.
  33. DEVIL LIFE`S
    DEVIL LIFE`S April 29 2020 19: 09 New
    -1
    For this to be truly Ukrainian, you need to live in the looking glass.
  34. LeonidL
    LeonidL April 29 2020 19: 10 New
    0
    Well, what other "new things" can you expect from a collective insane asylum? Thank you, I was glad, otherwise the news about the "primogeniture" of Mova, about the construction of pyramids and the digging of the Black Sea have already been forgotten.
  35. Angrybeard
    Angrybeard April 29 2020 19: 12 New
    +1
    What are you going to do with these Sumerians. In general, everything was invented everywhere. Unless the Armenians can compete.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  36. MA3UTA
    MA3UTA April 29 2020 19: 23 New
    +1
    It is not a Russian development, but is of Ukrainian origin


    The case when both sides are not quite right.


    Soviet BTVT designers cannot have national origin of technology
  37. Vdi73
    Vdi73 April 29 2020 19: 26 New
    0
    You can’t argue with the diggers of the seas.
  38. Vasyan1971
    Vasyan1971 April 29 2020 19: 27 New
    0
    Well. And I was minuscified for mentioning this yesterday. wassat
  39. Kerensky
    Kerensky April 29 2020 20: 09 New
    +1
    Oh run into!
    Everyone knows that the first in space was the Bracket. And they sent him there Kulman, Whatman, Compass and Reisfeder.
    Mila Rengen and Izzy Top are also known. How will they get out.
  40. Astra wild
    Astra wild April 29 2020 20: 41 New
    0
    "only the implementation of the project of the decline of the USSR" what do they have to do with
    THE USSR?
    Yes, in the Soviet Union there were many different developments and some projects are being implemented now. But to claim rights: they created it. Then the tsar was also involved in outer space: Tsialkovsky, even under the tsar, wrote works on flight into space
  41. Astra wild
    Astra wild April 29 2020 20: 44 New
    -1
    Quote: Mabius
    Quote: Onotolle
    "Ukrainian experts" I think it sounds a little funny, what do you think?

    Now their "main experts" are Westerners (former goat herders and gastro-beaters) ... angry

    Why ex? They may take offense and a poster.
  42. Furious bambr
    Furious bambr April 29 2020 21: 14 New
    -1
    Kharkov - I believe. And where is Usraina?
  43. ljoha_d
    ljoha_d April 29 2020 21: 39 New
    0
    Ukraine itself screamed that the tank was crap, and now that their origin is still their
  44. Alexey Kurtov
    Alexey Kurtov April 29 2020 22: 02 New
    +1
    So maybe Ukraine will start producing "Armata"?
  45. Sergey Balashov
    Sergey Balashov April 29 2020 22: 10 New
    0
    And what about the tanks in Kharkov itself? ONE tank in 10 years?
  46. Hermit21
    Hermit21 April 29 2020 22: 57 New
    -1
    Is this the "Hammer" that is fundamentally different from Object 148? Or is there some other?
  47. Alexander 2511
    Alexander 2511 April 30 2020 00: 22 New
    +1
    All jokes, but seriously speaking, "Hammer" is probably really the FIRST REAL PROTOTYPE in metal, the new and most promising concept of a modern tank.
    This is the Kharkov Design Bureau, which created the T 34, and laid the foundation for the concept of the main tank, from which the Uralvagonzavod was formed - the Evacuated Kharkov Locomotive Plant ... The Kharkov Tank Engineering School is one of the best in the world, modestly speaking. It seems that the concept of the future standard of world tank building was really born here ... The political noise around the topic makes it difficult to understand everything objectively ... It is clear that in the 80s such developments were the fruit of the USSR as a whole. YES and bring a promising concept to mind - a huge job.
    1. Hermit21
      Hermit21 April 30 2020 06: 52 New
      -1
      Not the first, not new and not the most promising. The layout of the family of objects 477 had nothing to do with the object 148 and led its family tree from the object 450
      1. Alexander 2511
        Alexander 2511 April 30 2020 15: 21 New
        +1
        The concept of a promising new generation tank was first implemented precisely in O 477 .. Most likely this concept was developed precisely by Morozov in the Malyshev Design Bureau. At least, such a conclusion can be drawn from the available information on these projects. All other implemented developments of this arrangement are later.
        Work on О 477 was conducted at a time when competition was between the design bureau of one state and not between countries. Because the primacy of one of two separate today, the state. - already an extra policy
        1. Hermit21
          Hermit21 April 30 2020 18: 32 New
          -1
          The concept of a promising new generation tank was first implemented precisely in O 477

          Why not 450? Not 490? Not 299? Not 195?
          All other implemented developments of this arrangement are later


          What are these? laughing
          1. Alexander 2511
            Alexander 2511 April 30 2020 22: 07 New
            0
            - ALL of those that you listed, either later developments as 195, or authorship of the same Morozov as 450. laughing
            Actually, if you have some secret information still unknown to anyone - make it public, everyone will be interested lol
            1. Hermit21
              Hermit21 April 30 2020 23: 26 New
              -1
              or authorship of the same Morozov as 450

              No difference. I have listed projects that can also, to one degree or another, be considered a "new generation tank". Moreover, 299 and 195 deserve this title much more, tk. T-14 grew out of 195 and learned something from the Petrograd. But the layout of the 477th family with two huge drums with 152 mm in the fighting compartment turned out to be of no use to anyone.
              1. Alexander 2511
                Alexander 2511 1 May 2020 00: 39 New
                0
                The question is not T14 - this is the same project as everyone else, just more elaborated. It is not yet in service and will continue to evolve. But the Armata project is developing precisely in the concept that was proposed in the 80s at the Morozov Design Bureau. And 152 mm did not "turned out to be of no use to anyone" But the time has not come yet laughing! Designed further than today advanced. The main elements are a seven-track base, an uninhabited tower for a larger caliber, a close internal layout. It appeared in O477 and was developed by Morozov since 1967. The rest of the developments you mentioned are later and used the already done. My opinion is that Morozov’s design bureau was the progenitors of the modern concept of the new generation of the main tank, which has been maximally implemented in T14 today.
                I have not seen convincing arguments refuting this in your posts. But everyone has the right to their opinion.
                1. Hermit21
                  Hermit21 1 May 2020 07: 39 New
                  -1
                  But the Armat project is developing precisely in the concept that was proposed in the 80s at Morozov Design Bureau.

                  The main elements are a seven-pack base, an uninhabited tower for a larger caliber, a close internal layout. It appeared in O477 and was developed by Morozov since 1967.

                  Neither the number of rollers, nor the caliber of the gun, is related to the innovativeness of the tank. The layout of the Morozov projects has nothing to do with 148. The 148 has a clear division into a command and control unit, isolated from ammunition and fuel and lubricants, where all three crew members are located, a full-fledged uninhabited warhead and a motor-transmission aft. 477 has a control compartment, where the mechanic’s driver is sitting, a fighting compartment, where CT and gunner and MTO are surrounded by shells. Where is the resemblance here? What layout decisions did the creators of vol. 148? The fact that new tanks would require a larger caliber and more rinks was obvious without Morozov. The tower, by the way, at 477 is not uninhabited, but low-profile. The crew was still in the tower module, only below the shoulder strap of the tower. The KHKBM tried to make a full-fledged weaponry, but failed.
                  And 152 mm didn’t "turned out to be of no use to anyone."

                  I talked about 152-mm shells in drums on the sides of CT and BUT, which is not close at 148.
                  The question is not in T14. - this is the same project as everyone else, just more refined

                  The most modified of all. By readiness only 195 can be compared with him.
                  1. Alexander 2511
                    Alexander 2511 1 May 2020 15: 18 New
                    -1
                    A crew member sits a little higher or slightly to the left - it does not change the essence of the concept, there are 3 of them and everything is in the hull, the tower is uninhabited. We tried to do it precisely because the DEVELOPED PROJECT provided for it! laughing The need for a larger caliber is also not obvious - Armata did not need it - as we see. Differences in design were not distinction of concepts. Armata is made exactly in the concept that Morozov developed. Well, what is obvious to you TODAY that was not obvious to Morozov 50 years ago is not surprising laughing
                    195 is a much later version - it is clear that all the earlier developments were used - it does not pull on the ancestor of tanks of a new generation.
                    1. Hermit21
                      Hermit21 1 May 2020 18: 43 New
                      -1
                      In Morozov’s projects, the tower is just inhabited. The fact that the 477 crew was below the shoulder strap does not make the tower uninhabited
                      A crew member sits a little higher or a little to the left - does not change the essence of the concept

                      It changes. The layout of Mr. Morozoff was not needed by anyone. 148 is a development of 299 and, in particular, 195.
                      We tried to do it precisely because the DEVELOPED PROJECT provided for it!

                      How many capsules do not write, and the tower module 477 from this will not cease to be inhabited.
                      Differences in design were not distinction of concepts.

                      Is an.
                      Armata is made exactly in the concept that Morozov developed

                      Nothing in common except membership in a new generation. The concrete implementation of Kharkiv projects has not been continued anywhere.
                      1. Alexander 2511
                        Alexander 2511 1 May 2020 21: 46 New
                        0
                        We look at the layout of the T 14 - monitors. About 477 the same gun monitor. So both tanks in the same layout laughing first applied by Morozov to the main tank. ALL THE OTHER SERIES WERE A CLASSIC LINK. FOR THE FIRST TIME the crew was below the shoulder strap - at least it was planned ... Morozov was really an innovator in tank building and the LARGEST TANK DESIGNER IN THE WORLD from the second half of the 20th century. What he annoyed you with is not clear - but it doesn’t matter and is actually ridiculous laughing
                        I will advise you to read the history of the creation of O477 where it says in plain text that this project was considered precisely as the BASIC PROSPECTIVE TANK and was personally supervised by the Ministry of Defense. Like the T34 of the same KB at one time. The USSR did not fall apart this project and would be implemented 100% But ...
                        And Armata is today's leader in tank building, having absorbed all the earlier achievements in a new round of those. development. But at the heart of it is precisely the concept and layout of Morozov. Such pies laughing
                      2. Hermit21
                        Hermit21 1 May 2020 22: 23 New
                        -2
                        We look at the layout of the T 14 - monitors. About 477 the same gun

                        477 doesn’t have a gun. The gun and ammunition are not isolated from the crew. Moreover, it was still located in the tower module, and its location below the tower shoulder strap does not make it uninhabited.
                        So both tanks in the same layout scheme laughing

                        148
                        The entire crew is in a compartment isolated from ammunition and fuel and lubricants in the bow of the hull;
                        The fighting compartment is completely uninhabited.
                        477
                        In the front of the case there is only a mechanical drive. CT and BUT are still sitting in the tower module surrounded by shells.
                        Well, yes, one and the same.
                        first applied by Morozov to the main tank

                        The first truly carriage layout was implemented by the Britons in COMRES 75.
                        Morozov was truly an innovator in tank building and the LARGEST TANK DESIGNER IN THE WORLD from the second half of the 20th century.

                        Of the three T-64 / -72 / -80, it was precisely 64 that was the weakest in the aggregate of characteristics. The layout ideas for the new generation tank have not taken root anywhere. Love of fantasy in isolation from the real possibilities of technology and industry. Does not pull on the best tank designer.
                        This project was considered precisely as the BASIC PROSPECTIVE TANK and was personally supervised by the Ministry of Defense

                        As well as "Improvement-88". Only now the S-88 led to the creation of 187, 195 and, of course, 148. What did the creation of 477 lead to? To nothing. Its layout, which differed from the current generation, in fact, only the location of the crew below the shoulder strap of the turret module was of no use to anyone.
                        The USSR did not fall apart this project and would be implemented 100%

                        Tagil’s hands, who tried to somehow fix what Gayny Morozoff did.
                        But at the heart of it is precisely the concept and layout of Morozov

                        A stretch concept. Layout from about. 195
                      3. Clerk
                        Clerk 2 May 2020 11: 25 New
                        +3
                        Quote: Hermit21
                        As well as "Improvement-88". Only now the S-88 led to the creation of 187, 195 and, of course, 148

                        Object 148 (T-14) is a development of the Priority-99 and Object 299 projects. These are parallel and different projects with the S-88 and T-95.
  • Roman123567
    Roman123567 April 30 2020 08: 48 New
    +1
    The political noise around the topic makes it difficult to understand everything objectively ...


    Well, it didn’t bother you ..
    And the rest at the word Kharkov immediately burns ..
    Although, a good Russian city seems to be .. one must be proud that there 30 years already engaged in similar things ..
    1. Alexander 2511
      Alexander 2511 April 30 2020 15: 33 New
      0
      Well, the situation ..))). A military theme, you can understand, in general. But an objective look at the issue of the birth of a new concept of a modern tank is necessary.
  • Nick
    Nick April 30 2020 16: 13 New
    0
    Quote: Alexander 2511
    This is the Kharkov Design Bureau that created the T 34, and laid the foundation for the concept of the main tank, from which the Uralvagonzavod was formed -

    Then I must say that the designer of the tank was a Russian engineer who was born in the Vladimir province near Pereslavl-Zalessky (now Yaroslavl region) in 1898. His name is Mikhail Ilyich Koshkin.
    1. Alexander 2511
      Alexander 2511 April 30 2020 17: 32 New
      0
      - And there is. And Morozov was born near Bryansk, but at the age of 15. worked at KhPZ, having gone from a copy of drawings to 2x hero of the Socialist. Labor and laureate of Lenin and Stalin Prizes. I do not think that these are "innate results"))) The third designer of the T 3 was Kucherenko from near Lozova.))) The creator of the lunar rover ... By the way, M. Koshkin was not necessarily purely Russian by nat. So it is obvious that the successes of the USSR were a COMMON MERIT OF ALL NATIONALITIES.
  • venaly
    venaly April 30 2020 00: 39 New
    +1
    He was probably dug up when they dug the Black Sea.
  • Horn
    Horn April 30 2020 07: 46 New
    +1
    Well, yes, in childhood Armata was Armatko ...
  • Roman123567
    Roman123567 April 30 2020 08: 45 New
    0
    However, this project was completed at the stage of testing the first running layout. Perestroika and the collapse of the USSR buried him.


    That's how interesting the world is in some people’s minds ..

    Let's say an article about RN Energy and Buran ..
    In the comments of regret, snot, admiration ..
    And then there was the hope that someone would revive the projects, that the money spent on this, and all those RELEASES were not in vain .. Something else was stored somewhere else and drawings. and technology is not lost, and experience is not forgotten .. Actually, I myself would like to hope for it ..

    But the fact that Russia took into account the Soviet experience in operating time and designing a tank with an uninhabited tower - for some reason everyone immediately doubts ..
    Although I would have trusted the Soviet engineers and designers no less than the current ..