"Yuanlai" in Chinese - "succeeded": in the PRC announced the solution of problems with the engine for the J-20

Military-themed Chinese media outlets come out with materials in which with a fair frequency there is a combination of the characters “yuanlai”, which can be translated into Russian as “it turned out” or “we did it”. What are we talking about?

Sohu publishes an article stating that China "has solved the engine problem for the new generation J-20 fighter." The material says that the first production J-20s were equipped with engines of Russian production. These are the engines of one of the modifications AL-31 (AL-31F).

From an article by a Chinese author:

It turned out to come to equip the J-20 combat aircraft with their own engines. First, the AL-31F was equipped, then the AL-31F was alternated with the WS-10A, but their thrust was only about 12,5 tons. Now, fighter jets receive the WS-15 engines in series, which have a thrust of more than 15 tons, and afterburner - 18 tons.

The material says that Chinese WS-15 engines can increase the speed parameters of a new generation fighter by about a third.

In the article:

And so we managed to create a plane that is already surpassing, for example, the American stealth fighter F-22. Superiority is expressed, in particular, in higher combat characteristics.

Inspired, the Chinese author claims that the J-20 is superior to another American fighter - the F-35. According to him, this translates into a “more stable stealth coverage.” And again the hieroglyphs “yuanlai” are used - “succeeded”.

Comments

[Maxwrx]

In addition to power, the resource is important and how long it will be able to fly the afterburner. With this, the Chinese are many times worse than our old Soviet engines. When there is this information, then we'll talk

[ioan-e]

All of these Chinese statements about engine thrust are reminiscent of an old joke:
Doctor, my neighbor says he can with his wife 4 times a night, and he is 75 and he is 7 years older than me!
And you say it!

[TermNachTer]

Now - here, they’ve been talking about solving this problem for ten years now. I don’t know about AL, but the Chinese counterparts of TV - 3 - 117, nursing a maximum of 800 - 900 hours, while the motor one is 6.

[Avior]

On Motor, the total release of TV3-117 is about 25, it is clear that the technology has been worked out.
The Chinese are trying to get to the Motor, including this

[antivirus]

they speak for yap - share the disputed islands in the east china sea

[1_2]

in the 90s, the Chinese sold the documentation for the yak-141 engine, 15t thrust, it could be forced up to 18 tons, maybe the Chinese managed to copy the engine

[Mavrikiy]

Inspired, the Chinese author claims that the J-20 is superior to another American fighter - the F-35. According to him, this translates into a “more stable stealth coverage.”

Our congratulations. The coatings on the F-35 can withstand 0,8-0,9 M, when the plane can produce 1 M. So if the Chinese can withstand 5 M, then maybe they are ahead of the rest, just from 1,0 M do?

[Civil]

1. China is consistently developing its aviation industry.
2. They succeed in everything. Hello everyone who shouted "they will never build an aircraft carrier" and so forth nonsense.
3. Socialism and planning gives results.
4. Hello to all those who changed the USSR for chewing gum. How are you retired?

[Maxwrx]

China is building capitalism. I work with China and by and large there the structure of the economy and politics is not very different from today's Russia.

[ANB]

Yes, at least expressionism. The main thing that does this is planned and hard.

[Maxwrx]

There is a market economy with a high share of the state. Like ours. They just have better managers and workers work hard.

[missuris]

3. The population gives a result.

[ANB]

. How are you retired?

Normally retired. Enough for the rent. It’s already necessary to work on food.
China has already done everything electronically.
Tightens materials science.
Because it is planned to develop.
I remember the quality of Chinese cars in 2008 and see now.

[Navat]

Poor Americans, earlier only the SU-35 was superior to their 5th generation, then the SU-57, now the J-20. It remains only to find out what is cooler, J-20 or SU-57 ...

[antivirus]

when yapi make them - the end of the Amerian superpower

[venik]

Quote: Mavrikiy

Coatings on F-35 withstand 0,8-0,9 M,

======
What a news! "Where did the firewood come from?" (In the sense of not throwing off the reference?). And then, I am a sinful thing, I was sure that its coatings withstand at least "supersonic cruise", but it turns out from it even on "sound" cowards fly off?!

[zulusuluz]

Yesterday? I read the article here that the developers limited the duration of the F35 flight at supersonic sound due to the stratification of the tail cover stealth.

[venik]

Quote: zulusuluz

Yesterday? read an article here

=======
Thank! I somehow missed.

[strelokmira]

Well no wonder it was only a matter of time

[dvina71]

I’m looking .. on the shutter’s shutters, which must be opened to launch a rocket .. do they always open like that? Make separate flaps for a pair of missiles is not fate? And where is the stealth here? He will be seen from the ground with such bread for a hundred km ..

[NEXUS]

Quote: dvina71

I’m looking .. on the shutter’s shutters, which must be opened to launch a rocket .. do they always open like that? Make separate flaps for a pair of missiles is not fate? And where is the stealth here? He will be seen from the ground with such bread for a hundred km ..

While the J20 among its classmates is the largest in size, it has the smallest internal rocket compartment.

[KVU-NSVD]

the material says that Chinese WS-15 engines can increase the speed parameters of a new generation fighter by about a third.

В

An increase in engine power by one third cannot give an increase in speed by the same third. This is physics

AL-31F alternated with WS-10A, but their thrust was only about 12,5 tons. Now, fighter jets receive the WS-15 engines in series, which have a thrust of over 15 tons, and afterburner - 18 tons.

Again, not a word about the resource. In general, there are some doubts, although if the result is not so rosy now, they will still achieve their yuanlai ... they are persistent ..

[Sky strike fighter]

Some mistake happened here. On the F-35, the thrust at the maximum speed was 12,5 tons, and on the afterburner it was somewhere 18,75 tons.
That is, the ratio of maximum thrust to afterburning should be 2 to 3. And here

Now, fighter jets receive the WS-15 engines in series, which have a thrust of over 15 tons, and afterburner - 18 tons.

But the same does not happen.
Then the maximum speed should be 12 tons, and 18 tons afterburner.

[gridasov]

In general, it is clear that at the current level of 18 tons of traction is almost a critical level of all the best engines. But what next?

[Sky strike fighter]

And then fierce hypersound or close to hypersonic speed. Look for information about SR-72 and Mig-41.

[gridasov]

Thank! As I understand it, the Mig-41 is still a project. And the question is more technological - how does traction for hyper speed increase

[venik]

Quote: gridasov

In general, it is clear that at the current level of 18 tons of traction, this is an almost critical level of all the best engines

=======
Who told you that? For fighters - YES! Close to the limit (at the present stage) .... And so (in the sense of general) - NO! (Airbus A-350-1000 has Rolls-Royce Trent XWB engines with a thrust of 41 tons!).
And as for fighters - a new "mulka" has gone - pulse-detonation combustion chambers. There, it seems, the increase in thrust should be at least 25% (and some believe that up to 30-50%!
Somewhere like that!

[gridasov]

All right! However, on large-mass aircraft, thrust is achieved not by creating certain processes of higher energy parameters, but most importantly by increasing the radii of the working rotors, which means centrifugal forces. At the same time, higher fuel consumption and reduced quality factor are also obvious.

[venik]

Quote: gridasov

However, on large-mass aircraft, thrust is achieved not by creating certain processes of higher energy parameters ......

=====
Well, what did I write about? About the same, only in other words.

[gridasov]

Well, I’m not against what you said. That's right. I just want to note that in the creation of efficient aircraft engines there is a technique for achieving the best parameters due to the banal increase and addition. In this case, it is necessary to use both mathematical methods and practical solutions themselves of a completely new approach.

[Bobrick]

Not at all, there are engines and more traction (NK-32 for example).
Better say: why do you need a fighter of 50 tons of flying weight?

[gridasov]

Payload, not dead weight! It probably should not be explained what it is.

[Bobrick]

The problem is actually not the creation of an engine or aircraft, but the justification of why it is so needed.
Any new project is a very large cost of research, development and pilot production (now it is already trillions of dollars) with a great chance of complete or partial failure.

[gridasov]

First of all, for an efficient, safe and economical flight of an aircraft. What now can not be said about aviation.

[Bobrick]

Even safety and economic efficiency cost money, sometimes it’s cheaper to do nothing at all, unfortunately

[gridasov]

I do not understand this position if you are engaged in science and achieved some results. Especially in the field of creating new principles for the operation of propulsors and engines

[venik]

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

Some mistake happened here. On the F-35, the thrust at the maximum speed was 12,5 tons, and on the afterburner it was somewhere 18,75 tons.
That is, the ratio of the maximum thrust to the afterburner should be 2 to 3. And here .... But this also does not happen. what
Then the maximum speed should be 12 tons, and 18 tons afterburner.

=======
Did you notice it too?
AL-41F1 ("first stage") has 9.5 and 14.5 respectively, the same engine, but "2 stages" ("Type 30") - 11.0 and 18.0. That is, the ratio "afterburner / unforgeable" 1.53 и 1.63 those. approximately, like the "American" - 1.5. And the Chinese do 1.2 ! What kind of "afterburner" is this, "frail"?

[Fantazer911]

Blah - Blah Blah, if China has really developed its engine in building technologies, then why is it still buying a Russian engine?
Okay, copies have been made, disassembled, improved, finished, improved, then why do they even buy engines from Russia if they already have their own super duper ?????????????????

[alexmach]

Okay, copies have been made, disassembled, improved, finished, improved, then why do they even buy engines from Russia if they already have their own super duper ?????????????????

And how much do you think they bought them ... well, let's say last 2019?

[Fantazer911]

How much they bought in 19 as before, I don’t know, but did they build all the planes as well as engines for them based on copying both Soviet technologies and Russian technologies, or did they all develop them?

[alexmach]

La la poplar.
A Russian jet engine is rooted in the copied engine production Rolls-Royce. So what?

How much was purchased in 19 as before, I don’t know

So they wouldn’t tell once unknown.

did they build all the planes in the same way as the engines for them based on copying both the USSR technologies and the Russian ones, or did they themselves develop everything?

As for the question "all planes", you can easily find the answer just by looking at their modern planes. From which Russian or Soviet aircraft was the J-20 discussed in the article copied? So they copied everything or did they develop it themselves? So why write pseudo-patriotic nonsense?

As for the engines - well, copy, or used to copy. When they copy well enough, they will begin to improve and develop. And they will copy well enough and they will be required to develop. China is a serious scientific and technical power, they have been working on this for decades, they will cope with this task sooner or later. The article reports that they have already managed. At the same time, knowing the Chinese love for dusting their brains about real TTX, an article can either exaggerate or report on an event that happened, well, let's say about 5 years ago.

And do not have this stupid hat about "can only copy"

[Fantazer911]

You should not argue with know-it-alls, and I didn’t minus you, but if you are so smart not from the Internet, tell me when was the USSR developed and what was the first turbojet engine in?

[alexmach]

So here I’m not sure from the Internet. I believe the end of the 40s and the beginning of the 50s was not developed, but a British one bought under license (by the way about the Chinese forever copying) was copied, which in turn was a development of German developments during the war. It flew the MiG-15.

[Fantazer911]

Both to the point and from the Internet

Based on the German jet engines YuMO-004, the Klimovsky RD-10 was created, which was installed on the Soviet jet aircraft Yak-15, Yak-17, La-150, etc.

You do not remember? , so you are not in the subject! , just like me, but based on the fact that while the originals were bought abroad, a lot of time has passed and now Russia is producing its own aircraft engines, and does not make photocopies like China!

The development of the turbine in Russia was difficult, after the designers visited the factory abroad, and one of them put on felt slippers, it became clear which alloy is used for the turbine blades, and after that their work went on and improved engines and blades.

[alexmach]

and now Russia already produces its own aircraft engines, and does not make photocopies like China!

With Russia, everything is clear, about China, how is it known in what state they are currently engine-building, how many models they have copied and how many already have their own?

[Fantazer911]

You are so a fan of Chinese industry it’s already getting sick, cheering for your own, China is copying from a machine to, but it’s better to do all the work than the original will not be soon, I personally do not support China and wash it, because China is very beautifully pouring mud on Russia buying in Russia and then their media in China are waxing, but they’ll burn like garb, but I didn’t root for other powers like you and I don’t root! I’m not proud of their achievements, and I don’t give a damn about their swamp, from which mud pours towards Russia with constant periodicity!

[alexmach]

You cheer for Chinese industry so badly

I am sick for a sober vision of reality, nothing more and nothing more.
China has been copying engines for 30 years, and for 30 years has access to the most modern Russian engines. Yes, these two parts are more complicated than what they copied in the 50s, but the time was incomparably greater, and the technical capabilities of China and of modern economics and science are not at all what they were then.
With the investments that they make in the woodworking industry, they will achieve results, if they have not yet achieved. And this will happen regardless of who is rooting for what.
Here in yesterday’s news, they said that the Chinese are offering their engine to replace the RD-33 for the JF-17, which means they could copy it, probably surpassed it in some ways. Surely they supplied the AL-31F supplied to them a long time ago and sawed their own modifications for a long time at least at the original level, and it would have been strange if it hadn’t been like that.

I’m not proud of their achievements, and I don’t give a damn about their swamp, from which mud pours towards Russia with constant periodicity!

Sorry, but this is the position of the ostrich. I don’t want to see reality, so it’s not there, I root for my own people. Reality is not a matter of belief or "pain".

[Fantazer911]

I don’t have an ostrich position, I don’t bow my head in front of them, with Chinese achievements, but stand up for my own, so that we don’t sit on the couch and say they have all the class, we have everything gone

[alexmach]

This is not a matter of bowing of the head or patriotism. This is a matter of understanding the real situation, and the actions that need to be taken depend on the understanding of the real situation. If the Chinese caught up with us in terms of engines, then they will stop buying them from us at least in large quantities, with the exception of single copies "for research". This will directly affect our defense industry, which means that in the 90s it will not be possible to develop equipment for the money of foreign customers. Copies of the Su-30, T-90, Pantsir-S1 - it was and passed. This must be understood in order to act on this basis. And not to bow down.

but I stand up for my own, so that we would not sit on the couch and say they have all the class, we have complete everything is gone

In all honesty, I’m not, you’re not going to work at the "defense" plant. We are both sitting on the couch.

PS: and after looking at the Internet, I see that last year China did receive engines, albeit in small quantities. Last year we completed a contract for the supply of 24 SU-35s and, in my opinion, 2 sets of "spare" engines for them. So let's see if this delivery to China will be the last.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: alexmach

They probably mastered the AL-31F supplied to them a long time ago and saw their own modifications for a long time at least at the original level

Or maybe not. For example, a single-crystal turbine blade is such a section.

Here, without the sale of technology, it is hardly possible to guess how all this is done, and to create for a long time.

[alexmach]

Here, without the sale of technology, it is hardly possible to guess how all this is done, and to create for a long time.

Is 30 years long enough? The product is of course very interesting.

[gridasov]

It is worth saying that in the USSR, the development of turbines was stupidly repeating the fundamental principles of their work and invented abroad. Therefore, only by changing this foundation can you create something of your own and more effective. But it turns out that this is practically impossible to accomplish in today's Russia. And no justifications and calculations will help. Stupidly this can not be all!

[Bad_gr]

Quote: alexmach

I believe the end of the 40s and the beginning of the 50s is not developed, but the British one bought under license (

Ours also worked in this area. Schemes of a double-circuit turbojet engine with mixing flows, the copyright certificate for which Arkhip Lyulka received back in 1941. Now, according to this scheme, the vast majority of turbojet engines in the world are being built. Copying the English engine just accelerated the work of creating a completely own engine.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Bad_gr

Arkhip Cradle

".... the team of A.M. Lyulka presented the TR-1 for state bench tests at the beginning of 1947. Under the new engine, P.O. Sukhoi developed the Su-11 fighter. On May 28, the Su-11 with two TR-1s made the first flight and soon reached a speed of 900 km / h. In the summer of the same year, an experienced bomber SV Ilyushin Il-22 with 4 TR-1 engines was tested ... "

[knn54]

China MASSOVO bought up decommissioned AL-31F engines for spare parts - turbine blades and disks, pipes and cover disks for the engine.
"Yuanlai" "-" I blinded him out of what was "...

[Pvi1206]

if you suffer for a long time - something will turn out ... patience and labor will grind everything ...

[Lord of the Sith]

Fresh giving, but hard to believe in the miracle of the product "Made in China", especially in the aircraft industry.

[awdrgy]

With such an inferiority complex, it’s time for them to fly on the Sun at Night

[Boa kaa]

Chinese Sohu is the mouthpiece of propaganda, sometimes very far from reality. Hieroglyphs to draw, not technical progress to move forward!
But the blades on the turbines they work 4 times less than that of our engines. It turns out like ... all the steam goes to the whistle!
Then, aircraft with PGO, in principle, can not fly on cruising supersonic. Aerodynamics, however!

[Magog]

But the blades on the turbines they work 4 times less than that of our engines.

Enough for a couple of air battles - okay! In World War II, Soviet aircraft were also several times inferior to German in terms of engine resources ...

[AlexTss]

Then, aircraft with PGO, in principle, can not fly on cruising supersonic. Aerodynamics, however!

And on the basis of what aerodynamics fundamentally deprives cruising supersonic aircraft with PGO?

[Mountain shooter]

Something quite often we hear victorious reports on the Chinese engine building ... To put it mildly, too often to be true ... For now, even the replacement of the AL-31F has not been very "repeated" ... And then suddenly - jump !!! And to a new level. Such jumps remind me of Mao's "Great Leap Forward", everyone remembers how it ended for China?
And the mentality has not gone anywhere. I love Chinese films about kung fu ... They are naive and extremely simple in plot. But in all of them there is a characteristic, apparently for the people, trait ... "my kung fu is better than yours !!!" Unbridled boasting and self-conceit ... How else? How to get into the anthill? By all means ... and this is in the mentality ...

[APASUS]

Well, you never know who can say anything! This is normal for the media.

[comradChe]

I am heartily glad for the Chinese comrades, even if this is an advance. They will achieve theirs. Malice against them is the only thing left to the false patriots.

[123456789]

And so we managed to create a plane that is already surpassing, for example, the American stealth fighter F-22. Superiority is expressed, in particular, in higher combat characteristics.

It remains to wait for real air battles and the first shot down

[Adimius38]

The Chinese will have advanced military equipment with a powerful economy, they will finish everything, finish it and bring it to mind, and most importantly they can build the right amount. Only weak patriots can laugh at them with their imperfections in the form of a su-57 and armature, which, by the way, still require serious improvements.

[501 Legion]

too much bravado lately from the Chinese

[Castro Ruiz]

A skolko chasov resurs etogo W-15?

[peter rusin_2]

We saw how it turned out on the tank biathlon, already the rollers fell off!

[Black Colonel]

To say is not to do.