How Ukraine was built in the USSR


One of the largest celebrations during the years of the Soviet Union was the day of the 300th anniversary of the reunification of Ukraine with Russia. On the streets of Moscow, Kiev, many other cities, solemn marches then took place, in memory of that landmark event stories Russian and Ukrainian peoples named streets, created monuments and unveiled monuments.


It would seem that there is nothing that could even cast a slight shadow on the brotherhood of peoples, on the brotherhood of the Union republics.

But while millions of people rejoiced, a completely different force hatched plans for discord, collapse, civil strife. Today we have to admit that these plans have borne fruit. Between the fraternal peoples, they drew not just geographical boundaries, but also those that go through deep wounds in the hearts of citizens of both Russia and Ukraine.

In 2019, on the HL channel, a film was released in the series “Empire is the other way around”, dedicated to Ukraine. In the film, the famous expert Bogdan Bezpalko notes how much attention was paid in the USSR to the development of the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic. It was the USSR that built Ukraine as the richest republic with a developed industry.

The expert recalls that Ukraine acquired its modern features on the map during the USSR, that its economy achieved incredible success in the same years that they are trying to call “dark” in Kiev today.

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  1. Free wind April 30 2020 04: 48 New
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    Obgazhivaya and swearing the state and its inhabitants, get a union state is problematic. What do you think?
    1. Zementbomber April 30 2020 05: 32 New
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      When von Ribbentrop responded to his statement to Colonel Beck that if the Reich didn’t get what he wanted from Poland — he would take his (and more) by force — he received a response from Colonel Beck that Poland would fight in this case — he was genuinely shocked and asked:
      Are you going to negotiate on the edge of the bayonet?
      Colonel Beck's answer read: Why not! This is fully consistent with your German method!
      - von Ribbentrop was sincerely outraged by such "impudence" ... (C) laughing laughing
      1. Pessimist22 April 30 2020 05: 37 New
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        Are you talking about how Ukraine tried to take its to LDNR?
        1. Zementbomber April 30 2020 05: 45 New
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          No. And do not, plz, pretend that you are so stupid that you do not understand - about the analogy with which country we are talking ... bully
          But yes - Ukraine - will take its toll in L / DPR. How much time and what kind of human and material and financial sacrifices on both sides this will require - I do not know and I cannot know. But - I know that he will. Without the slightest doubt.
          1. carstorm 11 April 30 2020 05: 48 New
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            It’s stupid to hope so, given that so far the interests of the Russian Federation are such that FIG who will allow Ukraine to take something there. In my opinion, the first persons of the state explained this quite openly and popularly.
            1. Zementbomber April 30 2020 05: 57 New
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              These are just the first faces of just Russia. "As a military man - I can confidently tell you: there are no states or peoples that could not be defeated and crushed." (C) (Lieutenant General Lev Rokhlin - now deceased (Rip) - in response to a remark by some Russian TV presenter in one of the countless “analytical programs” of the First Chechen period that “the Chechen people cannot be defeated”)
              1. carstorm 11 April 30 2020 06: 02 New
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                and why is this infantile nonsense?) just? well, OK. wait for the blue helicopter with cookies on) I can’t forbid you to believe in a fairy tale.
                1. Zementbomber April 30 2020 06: 11 New
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                  I can’t forbid you to consider the Verdict of History - "infantile delirium" - because now it is customary to play democracy. laughing
                  1. Dart2027 April 30 2020 18: 56 New
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                    Quote: Zementbomber
                    Sentence History

                    The fact that there will be no Ukraine.
                    1. Zementbomber 1 May 2020 22: 39 New
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                      Someday - of course, and Ukraine also will not be. I don’t know how many centuries - but yes - there will never be one. laughing
                      1. Dart2027 2 May 2020 06: 39 New
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                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        and Ukraine will not be either. I don’t know how long

                        When the United States put an end to this project, which, as a weapon against Russia, has not justified itself, that is, in the near future.
                      2. Zementbomber 2 May 2020 06: 41 New
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                        Dreaming is said to be not harmful. Although it is not uncommon - MILES are clever ... laughing
                      3. Dart2027 2 May 2020 06: 45 New
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                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        Dreaming is said to be not harmful.

                        That you are self-critical.
                      4. Zementbomber 2 May 2020 07: 06 New
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                        It - not "self-criticism". smile This is a "criticism of an assertion from an external source." tongue
                      5. Dart2027 2 May 2020 16: 14 New
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                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        This is not "self-criticism"

                        What about? You dream that the United States always dragged a suitcase without a handle ..
                      6. Zementbomber 5 May 2020 04: 49 New
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                        This is just a real assessment of the current situation and prospects. smile The future of Ukraine is not determined by the position of the United States (unless it comes to universal nuclear). Although Washington has really significant influence on Kiev (as, incidentally, on Moscow, and Beijing, and, and ...) In addition, Ukraine is not a “suitcase without a handle” at all, but is quite viable for itself. Including and in historical perspective. Unlike... smile
                      7. Dart2027 5 May 2020 06: 55 New
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                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        The future of Ukraine is not determined by the position of the USA

                        But the Maidan was not organized by them.
                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        not a “suitcase without a handle” at all, but quite viable

                        Here are just the remnants of what she received during the collapse of the USSR will soon end.
                      8. Zementbomber 5 May 2020 07: 51 New
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                        But the Maidan was not organized by them.

                        No, not them. Such an action cannot be organized purely from the outside. To promote and stimulate is possible. Organize - no. By the way - your clowns completely misunderstand this simple fact - Russia dooms itself to the “Maidan”.
                        Here are just the remnants of what she received during the collapse of the USSR will soon end.

                        "How long is it" soon "!" (c) I first read about it in 1993. What year is it now - to remind? laughing
                      9. Dart2027 5 May 2020 08: 07 New
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                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        Such an action cannot be organized purely from the outside.

                        Well yes. Instructions for their organization are already being published openly. And understanding of this simple fact by our authorities and the majority of the population angers the "partners".
                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        How long is it "soon"!

                        How many planes are there from several air armies? How are you doing with the new tanks? What about the fleet of the country that received the best shipyard in the USSR?
                      10. Zementbomber 5 May 2020 08: 46 New
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                        Well yes. Instructions for their organization are already being published openly. And understanding of this simple fact by our authorities and the majority of the population angers the "partners".

                        May be. Although, according to my observations - your confidence that they are "angry" - they will rather make them laugh a little. But I do not have a common picture - yes.
                        How many planes are there from several air armies?

                        In Gugol banned? OK, let me tell you a little more than 480.
                        How are you doing with the new tanks?

                        But no way. Due to the uniform and simple uselessness. Only KTA - only trash, only hardcore! laughing
                        What about the fleet of the country that received the best shipyard in the USSR?

                        Absolutely nothing - except for a few well, very small troughs. And this - we still called .upa.
                      11. Dart2027 5 May 2020 11: 14 New
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                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        your confidence that they are "angry" - rather their
                        So laughs that all of our fighters with the regime contain. And the story is when they tried to give out the riots in Greece for Russia.
                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        But no way. Due to the uniform and simple uselessness.
                        Because nothing can be done, and export attempts ended in a scandal due to quality.
                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        a little more than 480
                        So much? And here I read that less. This is not to mention quality
                        https://iz.ru/831648/2019-01-08/vvs-ukrainy-popali-v-desiatku-khudshikh-v-mire
                        So what is left there?
                      12. Zementbomber 6 May 2020 11: 17 New
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                        So laughs that all of our fighters with the regime contain.

                        Why not contain it? money is ridiculous. Benefit to investors - is brought. + “fighters” - in the role of “canned food” for “Day X”.
                        Because nothing can be done, and export attempts ended in a scandal due to quality.

                        In the imagination of Russians, yes, of course. laughing And in Real Reality - only newly produced after 1991 in Ukraine, armored vehicles exported hundreds of units. Including and development products after 1991
                        So much? And here I read that less. This is not to mention quality
                        https://iz.ru/831648/2019-01-08/vvs-ukrainy-popali-v-desiatku-khudshikh-v-mire
                        So what is left there?

                        You would have brought as a "source" on this issue, "TV Star". bully
                        This is considered elementary. Extreme open data is taken within the framework of the CFE Treaty, losses due to combat losses (published), disasters (open info), vehicles and export deliveries captured in Crimea (see GSEK database) are taken away, plus 10 Be-12PL - and op-la - are added here is a real fleet of Ukrainian combat aircraft.
                      13. Dart2027 6 May 2020 19: 59 New
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                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        Benefit to investors - is brought. + "fighters" - in the role of "canned food" for "day X"
                        Which has been waiting for 15 years.
                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        And in Real Reality - only newly produced armored vehicles in Ukraine after 1991
                        In reality, she delivered it from the backlogs of the USSR, but her looks like this https://nv.ua/biz/markets/tailand-otkazalsya-ot-ukrainskoy-bronetehniki-v-polzu-kitayskoy-smi-885858.html
                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        You would also be a "source" on this issue
                        That is, the link to the American edition is our "Star"? original. Well, where is your source? We will see.
                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        In Russian fantasies, yes. In reality, it’s different.
                        Well, and who buys them? More specific?
                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        Which semi-mythical "cauldron" did not even succeed in clogging-nIasilili. bully
                        Giving woe to the warriors to get back.
                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        Well and yes - the war of 1941-1945. - also started for
                        Defeat from the strongest land army in the world. And who put down the APU there?
                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        But one another - at least some kind of obstacle? Puppets - can also publicly restrain and defiantly punish. Moreover, when the rules of the game require openly not to recognize their status as puppets. Even the Germans had a certain ceremonial protocol even regarding the “autonomous president of Bohemia and Moravia” Gakhi in 1939–45. externally observed. Although - it would seem ...
                        What imposed sanctions against him? But nobody especially hides the puppet status of your government, that’s the trouble.
                      14. Zementbomber 7 May 2020 18: 59 New
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                        Which has been waiting for 15 years.

                        A little less. But yes - it does not come tomorrow. The date is generally known to all interested in fact. If nothing absolutely extraordinary happens that compels to postpone it to an earlier date - "day X" will be in March-April 2024.
                        In reality, she delivered it from the backlogs of the USSR, but her looks like this https://nv.ua/biz/markets/tailand-otkazalsya-ot-ukrainskoy-bronetehniki-v-polzu-kitayskoy-smi-885858.html

                        And from the "backlogs" - too. And also - its own manufacture after 1991. good Tanks of this particular manufacture were, for example, delivered 272 pcs. + new APCs are also a three-digit number. Well and yes - Thailand "refused". After completion of the contract in full. laughing
                        That is, the link to the American edition is our "Star"? original. Well, where is your source? We will see.

                        No - this is not a "Star". It is - just - the same "level" as the "Star". laughing You Russian words in Russian black bukOFFami written on white Ikran - forgotten how to read?
                        One more time:
                        Extreme open data is taken within the framework of the CFE Treaty, losses due to combat losses (published), disasters (open info), vehicles and export deliveries captured in Crimea (see GSEK database) are taken away, plus 10 Be-12PL - and op-la - are added here is a real fleet of Ukrainian combat aircraft.

                        Well, and who buys them? More specific?

                        https://www.un.org/disarmament/convarms/register/
                        We open, study, enjoy! love
                        Giving woe to the warriors to get back.

                        Yes, that’s known. When there is neither the strength, nor the ability, nor the spirit to inflict a decisive defeat - always then they portray that "and we just let them get out." laughing
                        Defeat from the strongest land army in the world. And who put down the APU there?

                        ChSH, that's how to "give in to the APU" (despite their completely killed state in 2014) - it didn’t work out. Despite the fact that a group of the Third Army of the World was put up against them. But - the readiness of this group (and the society within the country itself that sent it) to the victims - turned out to be too insignificant. Therefore, the maximum that she managed to do was inflict a partial defeat on an operational scale to the Ukrainian group. Although it was intended to be much wider ...
                        What imposed sanctions against him? But nobody especially hides the puppet status of your government, that’s the trouble.

                        No - did not enter. smile And the “puppet status of our Government” is not “hidden” only within Russia. But it does not matter to anyone - since public opinion in Russia - outside of Russia itself means nothing. In the same way, in Ukraine - no one hides the "puppet status" of the government of Russia already. With the same insignificant international significance of recognition of this fact. Significant national public opinions (of the USA, of the large states of "Old Europe", Japan, Canada) are treated in a completely different way. Depicting that Moscow, Kiev, etc., the "post-Soviet" capitals - often have relative freedom of action even in fairly significant matters. I find this approach clever - but these are consensus Rules. For now, anyway.
                      15. Dart2027 7 May 2020 19: 36 New
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                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        "day X" will be in March-April 2024
                        when a handful of outcasts wave again with white ... that is, with ribbons.
                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        And also - own production
                        From the same Soviet T-64, T-80. Have you had your own developments?
                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        No - this is not a "Star". It is - just - the same "level" as the "Star".
                        Who said?
                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        https://www.un.org/disarmament/convarms/register/
                        We open, study, enjoy!
                        I open and what? Will there be a specific link?
                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        ChSH, that's how to "give in to the APU" (despite their completely killed state in 2014) - it didn’t work out.
                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        Yes, that’s known. When there is no strength, no skill, no spirit to inflict decisive defeat
                        So it's not your "cyborgs" kicked out of the airport? And didn’t your offensive end in defeat?
                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        the grouping of the Third Army of the World was exposed
                        And when will they find her there? I remember looking for several years, but never found.
                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        But it does not matter to anyone - since public opinion in Russia - outside of Russia itself means nothing.
                        I’ll tell you a secret - public opinion outside of Russia in Russia itself also means nothing. But public opinion in Ukraine does not matter on the territory of Ukraine itself.
                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        I find this approach clever - but these are consensus Rules
                        The source of which is of course unknown.
                      16. Zementbomber 7 May 2020 22: 36 New
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                        when a handful of outcasts wave again with white ... that is, with ribbons.

                        With us, they also thought so. And then - it turned out that not a handful. And the main thing is that the marginals have an “unrealistically heavy tire” - to use the terminology of my cheerful youth. Listen - you really don’t understand that if the regime ceases to suit your big bourgeoisia (not a separate individual AlEgarh, but them as a “social group”; problems "- and not arrange in significant questions) - then neither the FSO, nor the FSB, nor the Russian Guard, nor the Airborne Forces, nor the ABVGD and all the letters of the Chinese alphabet combined together will help?
                        By the way, Ukraine is not the first country in which what you now call ("Maidan") has happened. And not the last. And everywhere before that they thought - "yes, the marginals, but what can they do!". But it turned out ... In short - google "color revolutions". wink
                        From the same Soviet T-64, T-80. Have you had your own developments?

                        Of course. If only for armored vehicles and only what was exported, then the T-84 family, BTR-94, BTR-3, the BTR-4 family.
                        Who said?

                        Ya hi
                        I open and what? Will there be a specific link?

                        You do not know how to go through internal links and work with internal search? bully
                        So it's not your "cyborgs" kicked out of the airport? And didn’t your offensive end in defeat?

                        After 242 days of trying to take possession of an object that has no strategic or operational significance, were they forced to retreat in an organized manner by a group that in terms of combat and numerical strength never exceeded the brigade tactical group? Yes ... - "We - Russian - BoX with us!" - ... and He - bends around Mother as an Odessa bindyuzhnik in conversation with an Odessa port loader - looking at our "successes" ... laughing bully
                        And when will they find her there? I remember looking for several years, but never found.

                        Again, the opinion of the Russians on this issue is interesting to the World only as a curiosity. For example, the fact that 57% of your citizens do not believe that old Neil visited the moon. laughing The world has long found everything and its opinion has long been made up. Moreover - the World - if he really needed to - would even find something that was not there. laughing And again, your opinion would not bother anyone. In addition to lovers of lulz more reasonable
                        I’ll tell you a secret - public opinion outside of Russia in Russia itself also means nothing.

                        Incorrect unswer. Public opinion outside of Russia (though not everywhere, but only in significant countries) directly (although - and not decisively) affects, for example, the wording of the answer to the question: when, under what conditions and by what methods will the “Russia” Project be closed?
                        But public opinion in Ukraine does not matter on the territory of Ukraine itself.
                        Again the wrong answer. In the era of open media and the Web - in domestic politics, internal public opinion always matters. Although the role of this value varies, in different circumstances, from minor to decisive.
                      17. Dart2027 8 May 2020 05: 47 New
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                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        With us, they also thought so. And then - it turned out that
                        Our people are smarter.
                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        what if the regime ceases to suit your big bourgeoisia
                        Which is also smarter than yours.
                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        BTR-94
                        BTR-94 - Jordanian and Iraqi armored personnel carrier of Ukrainian construction, developed in the 1990sand the base of the Soviet armored personnel carrier BTR-80 . At the same time, tests showed the presence of technical malfunctions in 90% of armored vehicles, while in 68% of cases they arose due to the manufacturer’s fault - as a result of violations in the production cycle[9]. https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91%D0%A2%D0%A0-94#cite_note-9
                        Achievement however. For the rest, the same song.
                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        You do not know how to go through internal links
                        That is, will not be?
                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        After 242 days of trying to take possession of an object that has no strategic or operational significance
                        An airport that doesn't matter? Hmm.
                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        Again, the opinion of the Russians on this issue is interesting to the World.
                        Very touching, but when will they be found?
                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        for example, to the wording of the answer to the question: when, on what conditions and by what methods will close the “Russia Project”
                        Which can not be closed for a long time.
                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        In the era of open media and the web - in domestic politics, internal public
                        Well, what does Ukraine have to do with it?
                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        Diplomatic Ethics, Diplomatic Protocol, Political Correctness
                        Specifically, where?
                      18. Zementbomber 8 May 2020 06: 11 New
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                        Our people are smarter.

                        In Serbia, etc., they also thought so ... laughing
                        Which is also smarter than yours.

                        Similarly - see above E. Your big bourgeoisia is well aware of its real interests.
                        BTR-94 is a Jordanian and Iraqi armored personnel carrier of Ukrainian construction, developed in the 1990s on the basis of the Soviet BTR-80 armored personnel carrier ... At the same time, tests showed the presence of technical malfunctions in 90% of the armored vehicles, while in 68% of cases they arose due to the manufacturer’s fault - as a result of violations in the technological cycle during production [9]. https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91%D0%A2%D0%A0-94#cite_note-9
                        Achievement however. For the rest, the same song.

                        Any AI (and not native Russian pseudo sources) confirming this - is there? laughing
                        That is, will not be?

                        But why? smile Link - I gave you. If you are so “alternatively gifted” that you don’t know how to use it, just ask - I will tell you how.
                        Very touching, but when will they be found?

                        "them" - have long been found. In 2014 yet. It is a pity for those whose contestation of this is of no interest to anyone - well, really, really.
                        Which can not be closed for a long time.

                        The consensus on the inappropriateness and even harmfulness for the World of the “Project“ Russia ”- was finalized only in 2014. 20-30 years from this date - and it will be closed.
                        Well, what does Ukraine have to do with it?

                        See source code. smile
                        Specifically, where?

                        See recommended search forms in search engines.
                        PS You are not in vain with us - in Poland and Ukraine - they are called "infomias" ... Mlyn-pancake - well, you can’t enter into a virtual fight - so helpless! ... bully
                      19. Dart2027 8 May 2020 19: 23 New
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                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        In Serbia, etc.
                        In Ukraine? Not there.
                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        Your big bourgeoisia is well aware of its real interests
                        Which consists in the fact that it is not bad for her to be likened to “galloping”.
                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        Link - I gave you.
                        That is not.
                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        "them" - have long been found. In 2014, another
                        And where are they?
                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        See source code.
                        That is, nothing to do with.
                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        See recommended search forms in search engines.
                        Very specific, so where exactly?
                      20. Zementbomber 11 May 2020 02: 35 New
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                        In Ukraine? Not there.

                        Strictly the opposite. smile "in" Ukraine - they realized much earlier that the sooner and fully relax and try to get some pleasure from the inevitable - the less painful it will be. And they made the right conclusions. You - have already played enough to the point that your project simply decided to close.
                        Which consists in the fact that it is not bad for her to be likened to “galloping”.

                        Desires - maybe not. But the desire to preserve her assets and rent is a priority for her. Absolute priority. And now there are decent problems. Your big capital perfectly understands what the continuation of the game with "the Russians has risen from their knees and we will never descend on them" is fraught. Having played in support of those playing it, he stupidly loses everything.
                        That is not.

                        Get out - do not get a central office. Your professionalism is not enough for this. laughing
                        We catch the link again:
                        https://www.un.org/disarmament/convarms/register/
                        - we work through internal search and open files.
                        Or we refuse - and we expose ourselves in a silly-funny form. tongue
                        And where are they?

                        In the world information field. The official conclusions of the national authorities of those countries with official consequences real Power and influence in the world. As well as in the same consequences and conclusions of international organizations affiliated with them.
                        That is, nothing to do with.

                        Once again - see source:
                        In the era of open media and the Web - in domestic politics, internal public opinion always matters. Although the role of this value varies, in different circumstances, from minor to decisive.

                        Very specific, so where exactly?

                        I repeat:
                        Yandex or Google: Wikipedia, Diplomatic Ethics, Diplomatic Protocol, Political Correctness - and enjoy! smile
                      21. Dart2027 11 May 2020 06: 39 New
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                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        understood much earlier that the sooner and fully relax and try to get some pleasure from the inevitable
                        The fact that nobody needed the Ukraine project was really inevitable.
                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        Our big capital is well aware of the potential for continuing the game of "Russians have risen from their knees and will never fall on them again."
                        The fact that their assets will be protected by a strong state.
                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        - we work through internal search and open files.
                        and stupidly sort out half a day hundreds of links? Specific location please. However, judging by the reluctance to indicate it, I can assume that you yourself do not know him.
                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        who have real Power and influence in the World
                        and one of which is Russia. Not as much as needed, but work is ongoing.
                        Quote: Zementbomber
                        Yandex or Google
                        That is, there will be no specifics.
            2. Zementbomber 7 May 2020 22: 45 New
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              Quote: Zementbomber
              I find this approach clever - but these are consensus Rules

              The source of which is of course unknown.

              Yandex or Google: Wikipedia, Diplomatic Ethics, Diplomatic Protocol, Political Correctness - and enjoy! smile
  • strannik1985 April 30 2020 06: 13 New
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    These are just the first faces of just Russia.

    Well, yes, he only said that in relation to Chechnya, the conditions are different.
    1. Zementbomber April 30 2020 06: 21 New
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      He said about CRI and Chechens. But - in general, and not just in relation to them. But yes - conditions - they are always always different - yes, Cap Evidence! laughing
  • strannik1985 April 30 2020 06: 01 New
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    But - I know what it will take. Without the slightest doubt.

    The hopes of the youths nourish.
    Georgians wanted to clean up South Ossetia from Ossetians, still ... they want to.
    1. Zementbomber April 30 2020 06: 13 New
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      Yes, I know. And their chance - they fell in love. Although - they had only to correctly plan and prepare the operation. Will they take revenge? HZ ...
      1. strannik1985 April 30 2020 06: 28 New
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        Yes, I know.

        No, when they decided to solve the problem of South Ossetians by ethnic cleansing in 1989-1992.
        In the war of 08.08.08 they had no chance.
        1. Zementbomber April 30 2020 06: 38 New
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          Still - still was. If you do not know about the “Java plan” developed by the group of advisers USA (M) F at the Headquarters of the Sakartvelo Armed Forces, then I can outline in general terms. wink
          1. strannik1985 April 30 2020 06: 40 New
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            Still - still was.

            Capture and destroy the Roki Tunnel in a day?
            1. Zementbomber April 30 2020 06: 47 New
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              For 4-6 hours actually. wink And of course, not the entire tunnel, but only its "southern portal" to a depth of about 150 feet. wink
              1. strannik1985 April 30 2020 06: 51 New
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                Given the counteraction of most of the army of South Ossetia and 2 BTGr on the other side of the tunnel?
                No, a paper plan may be good, but they didn’t even execute it, did it?
              2. Zementbomber April 30 2020 07: 23 New
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                Yes, still - not steel. For subjective-interdepartmental-political reasons. I can explain this story - if you wish of course. wink
                Army of South Ossetia - not was ready for a massive fire raid by all available NE and Georgian fire weapons in the area. Although it really was in the DOS. concentrated in Java. From yours, EMNIS, of the 58th combined arms - to immediate advance through the tunnel - only the reinforced company SpN + PT company was ready. Those. - Georgians could well wash the South Ossetians and you.
              3. strannik1985 April 30 2020 08: 28 New
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                What raid? From Tskhinvali to the village of Verkhny Ruk (closest to the portal of the tunnel) 64,4 km in a straight line.
                In the early morning of 08. a group of 135 regiments was already leading a b / d on the outskirts of Tbeti, then shifted to Kuseitri, worked from the MLRS in the area of ​​Oak Grove and Tamarasheni.
              4. Zementbomber 1 May 2020 23: 09 New
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                But where does the distance from Tskhinvali to Ruk?
                If the decision “Roki Tunnel - Target # 1” were made, the grouping of the Georgian PA would have to be deployed not where it was actually deployed ...
                And yes - I am aware that the reconnaissance bngr of the 693rd SME - left the tunnel to South Ossetia at about 2.30 a.m. Suppose even - by the time the Georgian main forces left the tunnel portal - even two full-time tankers could have entered South Ossetia. What could they really do?
              5. strannik1985 2 May 2020 14: 42 New
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                But what does the distance from Tskhinvali to Ruk have to do with it?

                Do you think that the war for the RF Armed Forces began suddenly? The deployment of Georgian artillery somewhere in the area of ​​Res, Dzhimara, Des, etc. will end from the "Point" strikes to the introduction of troops through Upper Lars.
              6. Zementbomber 5 May 2020 04: 58 New
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                At first - for preventive strikes by forces of the orbr on foreign territory - a political decision is needed at the highest level.
                Secondly - for the destruction without the use of special warheads of the main combat equipment of even one full artillery brigade of the Soviet "army set" and even in the most favorable conditions (compact concentration) - not enough even a full supply of BR in the orb. Even front-line submission. Not to mention one brigade salvo ... I recommend to learn the materiel. hi
              7. strannik1985 5 May 2020 05: 36 New
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                Yes, yes, yes, a month and a half is a special period, they raised b / g under the guise of exercises, everyone is standing on their ears, but no one is monitoring the situation on the other side of the border.
                Are you seriously?
              8. Zementbomber 5 May 2020 07: 02 New
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                Have you read the source text? Or - "Chukchi is not a reader?" laughing
                What does it have to do with it "degree of tracking situation"? orbr (even front-line) - not can crush army oartbr. Even if there is a political decision on that. And his - not would.
              9. strannik1985 5 May 2020 07: 14 New
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                Have you read the source text?

                You have a typical mistake of writers writing about all kinds of “fellow travelers”, you change your plans, and your opponent acts “in the old way” neither in sleep nor in spirit. The conflict was expected, most likely they were even aware of the offensive plans.
              10. Zementbomber 5 May 2020 07: 55 New
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                Well - and what's the problem? Would act according to the plan "older" than the "old plan" of the enemy - the enemy would be washed. That very own yushka.
              11. strannik1985 5 May 2020 08: 39 New
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                In politics, I repeat the third time — all plans for a military solution to the problem made sense only with the non-intervention of the Russian Federation.
                I do not think that the people who planned the operation are so unprofessional that they expected to block the Upper Lars with one reinforced company, etc., this is your gag.
              12. Zementbomber 6 May 2020 10: 41 New
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                all plans for a military solution to the problem made sense only with the non-intervention of the Russian Federation.

                This statement is nothing more than your wishful thinking. If Georgia conducted the operation correctly — Russian intervention would have been accompanied by such setbacks and losses — that this could easily mean a political catastrophe for the regime.
                I do not think that the people who planned the operation are so unprofessional that they expected to block Upper Lars with one reinforced company

                For this, it was proposed to single out one reinforced light infantry btgr in fact. smile I just noticed that the military-geographical conditions and communication infrastructure of the area are such that even a strong reinforced company can become an “unbreakable traffic jam” in the way of an entire SME.
              13. strannik1985 6 May 2020 13: 21 New
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                This statement is nothing more than your wishful thinking.

                Explain what we are discussing laughing Planning the operation as it was or your thoughts on the topic?
                For this, it was proposed to single out one reinforced light infantry btgr in fact.

                For what? Blocking IOP with an exploded tunnel at the Cross Pass? good Has this “plan” even left the walls of the cabinet of the operations department (?)?
              14. Zementbomber 6 May 2020 16: 21 New
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                Explain what we are discussing

                It's possible. laughing I explain: operation planning how it was on initial option.
                For what? Blocking IOP with an exploded tunnel at the Cross Pass? good This "plan" at least left the walls of the office of the operations department (?)?

                Do you really think that having blown up the main passages on mountain communications - you can leave it completely without military cover? belay bully
              15. strannik1985 6 May 2020 18: 32 New
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                It's possible.

                Great, and now I repeat the question - did this plan at least leave the walls of the cabinet where it was developed?
                Do you really think

                No, I am interested in the degree of adequacy of the Georgian government.
              16. Zementbomber 11 May 2020 02: 39 New
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                Great, and now I repeat the question - did this plan at least leave the walls of the cabinet where it was developed?

                I will answer shortly - Yes.
                No, I am interested in the degree of adequacy of the Georgian government.

                Judging by the extent to which the stupid plan was achieved through the mediation of Kondi, the "government" of Georgia "- then it was absolutely inadequate - yes.
  • strannik1985 April 30 2020 11: 40 New
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    Simplify the task. Put the problem of the Roki tunnel solved, no matter how. Who will heroically block the Military Ossetian road? Who will reflect the MAO in Poti?
    The whole operation focuses on one calculation-Russia will not intervene. However, intervened.
  • Zementbomber 1 May 2020 23: 14 New
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    The whole operation focuses on one calculation-Russia will not intervene. However, intervened.

    I completely agree. I would put a lot of dots here for planners in Tbilisi - but here, according to the Rules, you can't even ellipses. request
    Simplify the task. Put the problem of the Roki tunnel solved, no matter how. Who will heroically block the Military Ossetian road? Who will reflect the MAO in Poti?

    What could I affect on an operational scale the capture of Poti from the sea? Those weak ADF, which then had and now has KChF ??
    Well and yes - the Military Ossetian - for columns of equipment is currently impassable all year round.
  • strannik1985 2 May 2020 14: 52 New
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    What could I affect on an operational scale the capture of Poti from the sea?

    The grouping of regular troops would have to be pulled out, taking into account the combat effectiveness of the reservists wink
    Well and yes - the Military Ossetian - for columns of equipment is currently not passable all year round.

    And we don’t even need a round one, the Georgian border guards put up a post from mid-May to early November, the usual primer, it’s normal for trucks, at least KAMAZ trucks smuggled alcohol. True, it can be blocked by blockages, even the roadbed can be picked up. Here, the principle itself is important — the road led to the territory of Georgia (a branch in the South Ossetia was built in ~ 2009), i.e. it’s not a friendly enclave between each other, but the transfer of a military base to the enemy’s territory will not be Military Ossetian, but Georgian Military the road, who will get better from this?
  • Zementbomber 5 May 2020 05: 09 New
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    The grouping of regular troops would have to be pulled out, taking into account the combat effectiveness of the reservists wink

    For Poti - no more than three infantry battalions were needed - the Black Sea Fleet, even with max. by the exertion of forces there could not have landed more than a brigade.
    And we don’t even need a round one, the Georgian border guards put up a post from mid-May to early November, the usual primer, it’s normal for trucks, at least KAMAZ trucks smuggled alcohol.

    You do not understand the difference between a single vehicle with a highly average experienced driver - and even just a battalion column? ... bully
    it will not be the Military Ossetian, but the Georgian Military Road

    If it is clogged in a convenient position by a well-trained and well-motivated RTGr compared to the enemy, an enhanced PTS — in order to knock this RTGr out of position — a minimum of reinforced SME is required. And even then - right away - not a central office.
  • strannik1985 5 May 2020 05: 58 New
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    For Poti

    And there is no more.
    You don’t understand

    I understand that, but I don’t understand the source of your information.
    If it clogs in a convenient position

    Spheroconin.
    Itum-Kale - Shatili, Beshta - Lagodekhi? laughing
  • Zementbomber 5 May 2020 08: 08 New
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    And there is no more.

    To capture Poti - it is not necessary. In order for it to be more than an “operational zilch”, it would be necessary. smile
    I understand that, but I don’t understand the source of your information.

    VGO. 1x2000000.
    Spheroconin.

    See above. Well and yes - in the Realities of the "operation" Argun "- everything was not so" triumphant "for the feds. smile
  • strannik1985 5 May 2020 09: 55 New
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    To make it bigger

    Actually, for the "operational zilch" the actions of individual companies were enough.
    VGO.

    Clear laughing
    See above

    You should have reviewed the map, Upper Lars is the Georgian Military Highway, it is also a two-lane highway with A161 asphalt pavement. What are you going to block the company there ???
  • Zementbomber 6 May 2020 11: 32 New
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    Actually, for the "operational zilch" the actions of individual companies were enough.

    It is precisely that the landing in Poti of "separate companies" and even a full-blown 810th brigade - would be enough only for a more or less propagandistically effective "zilch".
    Clear laughing

    I am glad. smile
    You should have reviewed the map, Upper Lars is the Georgian Military Highway, it is also a two-lane highway with A161 asphalt pavement. What are you going to block the company there ???

    You would read VGO Krestovoi. And photos of the overpasses there looked. Yes, they figured that with these overpasses, only one sapper platoon can make in just a couple of hours of time ... laughing
  • strannik1985 6 May 2020 13: 37 New
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    That's it, that the Poti landings

    Dear opponent, the landing of one DShR in Poti and the offensive of 2 BTGr from Abkhazia caused a panic in the 2nd and 3rd brigades of the Georgian Armed Forces (~ 9500 people), with desertion, abandonment of weapons, military equipment and staff documents. Of course, I understand that you have a biased attitude, but you need to see the shores laughing
    You would read VGO Krestovogo.

    To bring down the avalanche gallery, to blow up a bridge, to bring down an avalanche on the road - the maximum that they can do, nobody will give anyone to blow up the tunnel, it’s expensive wink
  • Zementbomber 7 May 2020 17: 36 New
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    Dear opponent, the landing of one DShR in Poti and the offensive of 2 BTGr from Abkhazia caused a panic in the 2nd and 3rd brigades of the Georgian Armed Forces (~ 9500 people), with desertion, abandonment of weapons, military equipment and staff documents. Of course, I understand that you have a biased attitude, but you must see the banks laughing

    A reinforced battalion, not a company.
    I know two "tactical groups for the Letter B" - BrTGr and BnTGr - translate your BTGr into Russian, plz.
    On the "Abkhazian" sections of the front there were the 2nd brigade and the Kodori combat group (5th brigade brigade and the combined police and militia battalion).
    In the brigade of the Georgian Armed Forces according to the state of war - about 3 thousand Therefore, 9500 people. of the two brigades, by no means can they "run and desert" - even with the most ardent desire. laughing
    Well and yes - major failures at the front, hysteria in the media with free access of l / s to them, publicly demonstrated demoralization of the political leadership and high command - "all this usually undermines the normal moral forces of the troops." (c) + by virtue of both the specifics of the preparation and organization of the Armed Forces, and by the specifics of the national mentality, the Georgian Army is much more effective in offensive than in defense. All this had to be taken into account of course.
    And yes - the then chief of the headquarters advisory group, Colonel Finkelstein, did not accidentally propose reducing the role of the native defense forces and the General Staff to the role of simple technical transmission mechanisms. But the “black sexipanter Condy” ... With its characteristic for “breaking through” black super-chilling BSI, favoritism and a complete misunderstanding of the military aspects of national security issues proper (and a misunderstanding of even the very importance of these aspects) ... negative negative In general - "The end is a little predictable." (with) sad
    To bring down an avalanche gallery, to blow up a bridge, to bring down an avalanche on the road - the maximum they can do, nobody will give anyone to blow up a tunnel, expensive wink

    Well - if you talk like that - you should never fight at all. negative For "a way to fight without killing or burning - have not yet been invented." (with) bully
  • Ros 56 April 30 2020 08: 25 New
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    Yeah, one has already taken, Hitler called him, so the Germans themselves still curse him. This also awaits you, Bandera pigs.
    1. Zementbomber 1 May 2020 23: 24 New
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      Take a trip to Germany - you will be surprised. Attitude: “it is necessary to repeat in kind” - grows stronger there by leaps and bounds.
      And also - we have roast beef with blood from the loin parts of infants into the army rations. laughing We specially wholesale these babies in Russia. laughing And even - in "L / DNR" we buy. True - from there they have to be delivered by double bass. laughing laughing
  • Lara Croft April 30 2020 22: 46 New
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    Quote: Zementbomber
    But yes - Ukraine - will take its toll in L / DPR. How much time and what kind of human and material and financial sacrifices on both sides this will require - I do not know and I cannot know. But - I know that he will. Without the slightest doubt.

    It’s very patriotic of you to say so ..... however, if you are a realist, you should see that the LPR and the DPR, far from the only territories beyond Kiev’s control, are being cut down illegally and on an industrial scale while shooting in the anti-terrorist operation zone of Ukraine amber is mined in a barbarous way ...
    Most Ukrainians don’t need Donbass, because if, as you write
    Ukraine - will take its toll in L / DPR
    , then it will have to be restored (most importantly to the detriment of other regions), and Ukraine, unlike the Ukrainian SSR, cannot build it, the last large-scale construction projects in Ukraine were carried out under Yanukovych and the "Party of Regions" ...., some of them, for example, Donetsk airport is already in ruins ....
    1. Zementbomber 1 May 2020 23: 53 New
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      Yes, this is not patriotism. I certainly [regarding tongue ] loyal to Ukraine - but still, my Historical Fatherland is a completely different country. The people of which are not that they have ever loved, adored Ukrainians so much (and Ukrainians also pay us here with "deep and sincere reciprocity"). So - this is just a sound assessment of the situation in a more or less long term.
      on the other end of Ukraine, illegally and on an industrial scale, they cut down the forest and amber is mined in a barbarous way ...

      There is still not such a trash going on. However, those who know the realities, for example, of the same coal mining in the “people's” republics, cannot be struck by the “Burshtinokopanks”.
      Most Ukrainians don’t need Donbass, because if, as you write
      Ukraine - will take its toll in L / DPR
      , then it will have to be restored (most importantly to the detriment of other regions), and Ukraine, unlike the Ukrainian SSR, cannot build it, the last large-scale construction projects in Ukraine were carried out under Yanukovych and the "Party of Regions" ...., some of them, for example, Donetsk airport is already in ruins ....

      Among the “ordinary” Ukrainians - there is no consensus on what to do with the Donbass. There are many who generally propose to "multiply it by zero." But there are also quite a few who offer to "send" the republics "to that Mother on the Light Port Boat" - and let them go wherever they want - even by regions to Russia, even to the Confederation with Burkina Faso. "The pulp also adds that the position happens, changes dramatically depending on the estimated price of the issue, but in any case, the people of Ukraine will not decide the fate of the Donbass, and not the people of Donbass, and not the people of Russia, and not even the people of the United States. yes This is not a matter of the level of peoples. He is too category "for adult respectable uncle aunts." soldier
  • Shadow041 1 May 2020 01: 13 New
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    The fact that Ukraine and others who organized the pogroms and killings of the Russian population will tire out the return is certainly no doubt. The whole history of Russia suggests that Russia never forgives such impudence to anyone and the punishment for such impudence is only a matter of time !!!
    1. Zementbomber 1 May 2020 23: 56 New
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      The motto on the Commander’s Shield - remember? wink
  • The comment was deleted.
  • mister-red 30 May 2020 17: 54 New
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    When von Ribbentrop responded to his statement to Colonel Beck that if the Reich didn’t get what he wanted from Poland — he would take his (and more) by force — he received a response from Colonel Beck that Poland would fight in this case — he was genuinely shocked and asked:
    Are you going to negotiate on the edge of the bayonet?
    Colonel Beck's answer read: Why not! This is fully consistent with your German method!
    - von Ribbentrop was sincerely outraged by such "arrogance" ..

    What was it for? What Beck said (if he said that), it would be like a kid showing off before a seasoned felon before a fight with him and fell silent quickly, knocking at the butt. Roughly the same thing happened with Poland in the 39th.
  • carstorm 11 April 30 2020 05: 37 New
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    and who is reproaching someone? everything is completely truthful and open.
    1. Zementbomber April 30 2020 05: 48 New
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      If you do not take into account the fact that even in the heading of the material there is a distortion of facts, understandable even to someone who has studied history USSR - yes, "quite truthfully." negative
      1. carstorm 11 April 30 2020 05: 53 New
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        Oh. well enough already. all the time there is a Svidomo clown who is here all trying to learn history. not tired? the Ukraine that remained after 91 years and became independent was built exactly by the USSR. From A to Z. Territories industry urban development. all. this fact can be denied only in one case, when a pan presses on the brain.
        1. Zementbomber April 30 2020 06: 08 New
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          Well, what can you do if the RU-raguli don't know the basics of history? bully For example - the fact that the history of statehood of Ukraine - began long before the creation of the USSR ... tongue
          1. Alexander Suvorov April 30 2020 06: 24 New
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            Zementbomber (Sergey)
            For example - the fact that the history of statehood of Ukraine - began long before the creation of the USSR ...

            Well ka, well ka here in more detail please, what kind of statehood? What kind of Ukraine are we talking about? If about the times of Bogdan Khmelnitsky, then there wasn’t even such a thing as Ukraine, but about the times of Hetman Skoropadsky, then the time of existence there is simply ridiculous, and the German protectorate can hardly be called an independent country.
            Enlighten us orphans like skakly, oh forgive the ancient Ukrainians, defeated the army of Darius ... laughing
            1. Zementbomber April 30 2020 06: 43 New
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              During the Scythian campaign of Darius I, there were no Ukrainians yet. Like the Russians. Like the Slavs in general.
              And yet, yes - the term "Ukraineйon "- appeared in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania in the XIV century.
              And yet, yes - the history of the statehood of Ukraine - goes back to the Principality of Galicia-Volyn. Times of late Kievan Rus.
              Learn History - Our Mother! bully
              1. Varyag_0711 April 30 2020 08: 12 New
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                Zementbomber (Sergey)
                During the Scythian campaign of Darius I, there were no Ukrainians yet.
                Well, thanks for that. Reassured.
                Like the Slavs in general.
                But this is a moot point, since according to the Old Slavonic calendar, the current year is 7528.
                And yet, yes - the term "Ukraine" - appeared in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania in the XIV century.
                First, the concept of the term Ukraine is NOT the same as the concept of the state of Ukraine. I am ashamed not to understand such nuances. Secondly, you can bring the link that in ON though someone had a clue about Ukraine?
                And yet, yes - the history of the statehood of Ukraine - goes back to the Principality of Galicia-Volyn. Times of late Kievan Rus.
                Did you understand what you wrote? Decide finally where Kiev RUSSIAand where is Ukraine. Who are you really? Lost Russians or some mythical Ukrainians? There are three branches of the RUSSIAN people, Little Russians, Belorussians and Great Russians, no one has ever heard of Ukrainians. This is a fictional nation with a fictional story. However, I do not care, you want to consider yourself Ukrainians, consider your health. Though you call yourself Martians, just live on the concepts of honor and conscience, you can not a priori. due to the prevailing servile-lackey thinking. That’s why you yourself can’t live, you’re always looking for a master, then Lithuanians, then Poles, then Tatars, then Turks, then Austrians, then Germans, then Russians, now they’ve chosen to be the Americans ’bars ... Congratulations, a" wonderful "choice. They would be interested in at least the history of the origin of the USA and what they did with those peoples whom they considered to be their vassals. Sometimes useful.
                Learn History - Our Mother!
                I can’t say anything about your mother, but about learning history, you gave yourself the right advice. LEARN and learn to learn from mistakes already.
                1. Zementbomber April 30 2020 08: 51 New
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                  The textbook "History of the Ukrainian SSR of the pre-Soviet period" in the Central Library named after Acad. Vernadsky - I will not order - excuse me. Go to "Leninka" (or whatever you call SchAZZ there?) - it should be there.
                  And in case. if you’ve even been banned from Wiki laughing - I publish this:
                  The word "Ukraine" has existed since the time of Kievan Rus - at least from the XII century. It was first mentioned in the Kiev annals of the Ipatiev Arch of the XII-XIV centuries under 1187 in connection with the death of Prince Vladimir Glebovich (“there is a lot of fasting about him” in the border region of Pereyaslav), later “Ukraine” is mentioned in the annals of 1189 and 1213 (Galitsko- Volyn Chronicle). These references belonged to the outlying territories of the Pereyaslavsky (Posulsky defensive line), the Galician and Volyn principalities. From that time until almost the XNUMXth century, in written sources, this word was used in the meaning of “frontier lands”, without reference to any particular region with clear boundaries: including far beyond the borders of modern Ukraine, for example, “Pskov Ukraine” , "Oka Ukraine." In the “Word of Idols”, a XNUMXth-century Russian scribe wrote that paganism had receded to the outskirts, where people continued to pray to the old gods, but they did it secretly: “... and now, according to their Ukrainians, they pray to their cursed god Perun, Khors and Mokoshi and the pitchfork but they do aka thaw. ”
                  [The illustration is given: “The general image of the desert plains, colloquially called Ukrainian, with adjacent provinces.” Map of Guillaume Boplan in 1648, commissioned by Vladislav IV. North at bottom of map]
                  According to the dictionary of Brockhaus and Efron, a part of the territory of Southern Russia, stretching from Podillia in the west to the mouth of the Dnieper ("Ochakov Field") in the south and including most of the lands of the future Yekaterinoslav province in the east, became an unofficial name after entering the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth "Ukrainian". This was due to the fact that these territories of Southern Rus at the border with the steppe spaces were borderline for the Commonwealth. Samuel Grondsky, a Polish author of the history of the Khmelnytsky uprising (circa 1660), who wrote: “Latin margo (border, frontier) in Polish kraj, hence Ukraine is like a region located at the edge of the (Polish) kingdom”. The interpretation of the word “Ukraina” as borderland located on the border of the Polish state, “near the edge”, was also cited by the Polish historian Julian Bartoshevich in the “General Encyclopedia” by Samuel Orgelbrand.

                  a moot point, since according to the Old Slavic calendar, the current year is 7528.

                  Alphabetically: calendar dating - absolutely not indicate the age of the ethnic group. They can be completely speculative even among very primitive peoples.
                  A classic example is this:
                  https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Календарь_майя
                  (although Maya, strictly speaking, "primitive people" - consider the same notkosher)
                  For the rest of the point Am - I will answer after the sessions of food, sex, sleep, work, sex, food. sleep and again sex and food. Those. - tomorrow night. wink smile
                  1. Varyag_0711 April 30 2020 09: 13 New
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                    I thought that the brain is really bad.
                    Zementbomber (Sergey)
                    Textbook "History of the Ukrainian SSR pre-Soviet period"
                    A history textbook of the Ukrainian SSR "Pre-Soviet" period, how is it? As far as I understand, the pre-Soviet period is the period of the Russian Empire. But in the Republic of Ingushetia there was neither Ukraine, nor even Ukraine.
                    What are you called?
                    Judging by this, the level of intelligence just rolls over and strives beyond the baseboard.
                    And in case. if you’ve even been banned from Wiki
                    Link to Aunt Vika, this is bad manners. However, for the skakuas itself, but not for me.

                    For those who repeat on an armored train when the state appeared in Ukraine?
                    You can not strain, the statehood of Ukraine appeared in 1991 since the collapse of the USSR. But statehood in Ukraine is CONDITIONAL, as to independently make a single decision, not a single government of post-Soviet Ukraine can a priori, if there is no lack of confidence in decision-making.

                    So you can continue to jump and refer to Aunt Vika, it will not get any better from this in Ukraine anyway. Pan on the head and skip on until the rope is taken away.
                    1. Zementbomber 2 May 2020 00: 24 New
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                      A history textbook of the Ukrainian SSR "Pre-Soviet" period, how is it? As far as I understand, the pre-Soviet period is the period of the Russian Empire. But in the Republic of Ingushetia there was neither Ukraine, nor even Ukraine.

                      Well, if your knowledge of the level of bast shoes - what can I do. laughing There were full-time departments in the USSR universities: History of the USSR (pre-Soviet period - from ancient times - from the early Stone Age) and History of the Ukrainian SSR (similarly - toSoviet period). And the textbooks are similarly named. And also - a school course: "The history of the USSR from ancient times to the present day." What was the subject of countless jokes by students. For example this:
                      "The theme of the scientific and practical conference: Friendship of the peoples of the USSR in the era of the Upper Stone Age and the use of a stone ax to dissect the frontal bone in the process of strengthening this friendship." laughing
                      But - it was.
                      Link to Aunt Vika, this is bad manners. However, for the skakuas itself, but not for me.

                      Well - agreed on something smarter - business something! Ah - there is not enough knowledge for this? Well - I'm sorry and do not be offended that they are laughing at you ...
                      For those who repeat on an armored train when the state appeared in Ukraine?
                      You can not strain, the statehood of Ukraine appeared in 1991 since the collapse of the USSR.

                      Og. Only the school and university history course says something else. This is a certificate for those who were covered with coal in a steam locomotive tender.
                      But statehood in Ukraine is CONDITIONAL, as to independently make a single decision, not a single government of post-Soviet Ukraine can a priori, if there is no lack of confidence in decision-making.

                      Well, so - by this criterion in the territory of the former USSR - there is not a single state whose statehood would not be "conditional". One might think - to the President and the Government of the Russian Federation - someone would allow "to make independent decisions." No, they can - theoretically - try of course. But here the USSR immediately remembers - it was just that one who loved to play independence. And played out. I do not consider GDP and Co "congenial" - but they are still not stupid people, and I believe that this lesson has been learned firmly.
                      So you can continue to jump and refer to Aunt Vika, it will not get any better from this in Ukraine anyway.

                      And tell me this - why do you yourself "jump"? It is clear to any minimal-minded person: your business, your “struggle” - are 146% hopeless. And here you go - "jump" and "jump" ...
                    2. Dart2027 2 May 2020 06: 41 New
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                      Quote: Zementbomber
                      There were full-time departments in the universities of the USSR

                      That is, before the USSR, there was no Ukraine.
                    3. Zementbomber 2 May 2020 06: 49 New
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                      Do not smoke so much. laughing
                    4. Dart2027 2 May 2020 16: 13 New
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                      Quote: Zementbomber
                      Do not smoke

                    5. Zementbomber 5 May 2020 05: 14 New
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                      Those who are smarter - they buy real-life bills and passports indicating citizenship ... smile (They cost a lot - by the way ...) But this does not apply to Russians, of course. They have their own way. Paved by Tariq Aziz in 2003 ... laughing
                    6. Dart2027 5 May 2020 07: 03 New
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                      Quote: Zementbomber
                      Those who are smarter - buy real-life bills and passports indicating citizenship

                      That is, nothing of this is mentioned at all, like no Ukraine.
                      Quote: Zementbomber
                      They have their own way.
                      The path of Ukraine is Ilovaysky boiler.
                    7. Zementbomber 6 May 2020 11: 39 New
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                      That is, nothing of this is mentioned at all, like no Ukraine.

                      In Russian fantasies, yes. In reality, it’s different.
                      The path of Ukraine is Ilovaysky boiler.

                      Which semi-mythical "cauldron" did not even succeed in clogging-nIasilili. bully Well and yes - the war of 1941-1945. - also began for the USSR "not very much," let’s say so. AND?? And here - exactly the same thing will happen. wink smile
  • Bat039 2 May 2020 14: 45 New
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    Kievan Rus has not existed since the 13th century and it is not Ukraine! Ukraine, these are those who remained six occupiers in Polish Kiev! As for serfdom, they did not let dogs and Ukrainians into trams in Polish Lviv, and judging by the fact that on several floors of the SBU building, in Kiev, the Tsrushniki settled in and the entrance to these floors is closed for Ukrainians, Ukraine is still not sovereign states, and Ukrainians are still slaves!
    1. Zementbomber 5 May 2020 05: 21 New
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      What’s really interesting here - it seems that the representative of a country completely deprived of the “slavery” of Ukrainians real political and economic and financial sovereignty. For - in it power dominates comprador (in Marxist - but from that - no less suitable - terms) capital ... bully
      Well and so - that
      on several floors of the SBU building, in Kiev, the CIA
      - even our traitors who sided with the Russians refute ... bully
      1. Dart2027 5 May 2020 07: 04 New
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        Quote: Zementbomber
        devoid of real political and economic-financial sovereignty

        That is the United States so trying to impose different sanctions, do not understand what to blame, etc.
        1. Zementbomber 6 May 2020 12: 04 New
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          But one another - at least some kind of obstacle? Puppets - can also publicly restrain and defiantly punish. Moreover, when the rules of the game require openly not to recognize their status as puppets. Even the Germans had a certain ceremonial protocol even regarding the “autonomous president of Bohemia and Moravia” Gakhi in 1939–45. externally observed. Although - it would seem ...
        2. Phoenix040 11 May 2020 00: 48 New
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          You confused the Bandera ramse. Your Ukraine has always been a puppet, forever gearing everything from Sweden to Turkey!
  • carstorm 11 April 30 2020 06: 37 New
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    come on? Seriously? ) you learn to read first. I said BUILD !. the trouble with people like you is that you only see what you want and not what it really is. therefore, you behave like my children are mine. statehood is not only a word. this is, first of all, a completely obvious concept without the possibility of adjusting it for oneself. so grab your pan and bring down the censor. there will appreciate your nonsense. it doesn’t work here. allergy to castrolegol.
    1. Zementbomber April 30 2020 06: 56 New
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      Yes there is no "allergy". Our (and not only ours tongue ) guys (both "state" and "non-state") regularly monitor this resource, including And the picture is quite not similar to the one that can be deduced from reading local comments.
      But yes - statehood is not only a “word.” For the first time on the territory of Ukraine, actually Ukrainian statehood was built ~ 650 years before the Union. Teach materiel, yoklmn!
      1. carstorm 11 April 30 2020 07: 24 New
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        Lord ... well, go to the guys. Why are you climbing to us? Believe us, there is something to laugh about. still only the pots were not enough for complete happiness.
        1. Zementbomber April 30 2020 07: 38 New
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          But what about the sport of throwing a fly in the ointment in the honey-barrel infoprochemical warfare? laughing
          But what about the legendary I did it for the lulz ?? laughing laughing
          https://lurkmore.to/Лулз
          Nooooo - personally, I - not magu without Entago !! laughing
  • Vadim Golubkov April 30 2020 07: 38 New
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    I would like to see Ukrainian coins before 1991, otherwise I know that I collect coins from different countries, I even have coins of the Russian Empire of the 19th century, I would like to look at Ukrainian ones.
    1. Zementbomber April 30 2020 08: 08 New
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      As far as I know (though I was little interested in this issue) - the First UPR, the Ukrainian Power and the Second UPR - as well as other state education in Ukraine in 1917-1921. - exactly coins - Not minted or ordered. Only bills. Similarly - the USR / Ukrainian SSR, the Reichskommissariat "Ukraine" and the UPA. There is information about the minting of their own coins in the era of the First Hetman, which is considered not quite reliable. But I have not seen their images. And no descriptions either.
      1. Vadim Golubkov April 30 2020 08: 12 New
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        That is, the state of Ukraine was 650 years old, but there were no coins. Famously.
        1. Zementbomber 2 May 2020 00: 30 New
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          What is surprising? Coinage - often appears centuries after the beginning of the process of becoming statehood. Bah! - more: some quite “Great Powers” ​​of their time — even without banknotes, managed their entire history.
          1. Vadim Golubkov 2 May 2020 09: 25 New
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            Please list these Great Powers that did without their own coins? Or are you alluding to Ukraine?
            1. Zementbomber 2 May 2020 10: 31 New
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              Not - not hinting. laughing Ukraine - never not was a "Great Power." And - never will be. Although the unforgettable LDK - "Danilych - I'm sorry!" - this and raved literally. bully
              Clean offhand (I have never dealt with this issue specifically) - Tawantin Suyu for example.
              Well - Kievan Rus from the time of Monomakh inclusive - was a Great European Power. However - nichrome-nifiga in her not minted ...
            2. svp67 2 May 2020 13: 36 New
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              Quote: Zementbomber
              Well - Kievan Rus from the time of Monomakh inclusive - was a Great European Power.

              And was there such a Power as Kievan Rus? Prove it. There was no such state, but there was the Principality of Kiev and the Grand Principality of Kiev
              Quote: Zementbomber
              However - nichrome-nifiga was not minted in it ...

              You’re ridiculous ... the Internet is full of images of “zlatniks” and “silver coins”
            3. Zementbomber 5 May 2020 05: 35 New
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              And was there such a Power as Kievan Rus? Prove it.

              Google "History of the USSR", 7th grade.
              You’re ridiculous ... the Internet is full of images of “zlatniks” and “silver coins”

              The Internet (more precisely, Runet) is crowded. May be laughing And numismatists - they say a little different. That they were not coins - simply because not were a means of payment. And for a number of reasons - I can state them - if you really really stubbornly "rush into the" virtual "will. smile “Hryvnia” and “precious skins” served then as a means of payment. But they were not coins. naturally. NOW. bully
            4. Vadim Golubkov 6 May 2020 16: 10 New
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              Yes, yes, coins were not printed in Ancient Russia-Ukraine, I already understood. You can come up with your own story further, history experts Professor Bebik and Vyatrovich will help.
          2. Vadim Golubkov 5 May 2020 10: 53 New
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            This is not evidence for them. This was invented by marginal Russian and Ukrainian historians, coins of Ancient Russia were printed on Mosfilm.
          3. Ataka smertnikov 5 May 2020 10: 57 New
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            Quote: Vadim Golubkov
            This is not evidence for them. This was invented by marginal Russian and Ukrainian historians, coins of Ancient Russia were printed on Mosfilm.

            Yeah ... I have not read that before)))) laughing
          4. Vadim Golubkov 5 May 2020 11: 07 New
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            I too, but already used, especially to the history of the new Ukraine and Kievan Rus-Ukraine.
          5. Zementbomber 6 May 2020 12: 24 New
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            See above. Well and so - everything is relative. Compared to the degree of mythologization and even falsification of textbooks on the history of Russia ...
      2. Zementbomber 6 May 2020 12: 22 New
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        Of course not. The evidence is the data published in the AI ​​by historians, archaeologists and numismatists, and not fantasies in comments based on the fact that something is “golden and almost round” and that something is really wanted ... laughing laughing
      3. Vadim Golubkov 6 May 2020 16: 06 New
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        Yes, I realized that in Kievan Rus-Ukraine, coins were not printed. Maybe even specialist professor of history Bebik speaks about this.
      4. Zementbomber 7 May 2020 19: 23 New
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        Professor (and 146% freak laughing ) Valery Mikhailovich Bebik - understands in history - about like a hedgehog in pineapples. On the tower - he is a cybernetic. By degrees - social psychologist and political scientist. By the way, his work on political psychology since the last years of the Union and 1992-93. - were still quite suitable for themselves - as for the Russian-language publications of that time on this topic. I have even survived in my home library since the days of my pimp-laboratory and teaching years. smile
        In this case, what matters is what authoritative source experts, archaeologists and numismatists say. And they claim - documented or materially confirmed data on the minting of coins (i.e., metal official - and at the same time actually used - means of payment established at least in general terms within at least one territory of the standard) - earlier than the end of 1993 within the current legal territory of Ukraine not known (except of course the coins of the Greek cities of Ancient Crimea).
        This is, if formulated seriously - and not engage in brainless gnawing at the level of technical schools. bully
      5. Vadim Golubkov 8 May 2020 07: 22 New
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        I am aware that fantasies win.
      6. Zementbomber 11 May 2020 02: 12 New
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        Judging by the degree of "success" (despite the very great efforts) of the Russian attempts to introduce their historical and political porn fantasies into the minds (even into the minds of the Russians themselves) - fantasies not they win very much ... bully
  • Vadim Golubkov 2 May 2020 14: 56 New
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    Yes, we are aware that in Kievan Rus, that is, Ukraine, coins were not printed, nafig needed, I used other people's coins. And what other Great Powers lived without their coins, except for Kievan Rus-Ukraine? I will not be surprised already if you tell us about the Ukrainian-Persian war.
  • Zementbomber 5 May 2020 05: 39 New
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    And what other Great Powers lived without their coins, except for Kievan Rus-Ukraine?

    All Empires of the future (then) Iberian America for example. wink
    I will not be surprised already if you tell us about the Ukrainian-Persian war.

    But in vain! For yet not I will tell. Vestimo - she was Russian-Persian! laughing
  • Vadim Golubkov 5 May 2020 07: 04 New
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    You can still remember the Neanderthals and pebbles. And the trade at the expense of what they carried out, what replaced them with money and brought power?
  • Zementbomber 5 May 2020 07: 43 New
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    Well, that is - to object in essence - you have nothing. Got it - I celebrate the victory, I write it on my account. laughing
    And trade was carried out on a non-cash basis. Numerous (two-digit number) examples on the scale of civilizations are known. In the 1990s in the post-Union - it was called "barter". "computers in exchange for brooms" - and all that ... laughing
  • Vadim Golubkov 5 May 2020 10: 50 New
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    Of course, I can help myself to write it down, because for you the coins of Ancient Russia and Russian princes are not proof, especially since there are marginal Russian and Ukrainian historians before the Ukrainian-Persian war and Kiev Rus-Ukraine. Generally put on the shoulder blades, I give up.
  • Zementbomber 6 May 2020 12: 27 New
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    Just read at least your own Russian Monetik.ru - before you get involved in a virtual game ... laughing
  • Vadim Golubkov 5 May 2020 07: 18 New
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    Okay, I understand, you don’t bother at all that coins were printed in Ancient Russia, and they were not printed in Kievan Rus-Ukraine.
  • Zementbomber 5 May 2020 07: 39 New
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    No, it doesn’t bother. smile Since the "printing of coins in Ancient Russia" - exists only in the wet fantasies of individual (marginal) Russian and Ukrainian historians and their adherents. laughing
  • Dart2027 April 30 2020 18: 57 New
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    Quote: Zementbomber
    misrepresentation

    This is yes, because in the USSR it was created, and not only built.
  • Vadim Golubkov April 30 2020 07: 32 New
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    Yes, it’s an anti-Russian march in Kiev in 1990, you can watch a video on the internet. Despite this, Russia in the form of all sorts of nishtyaks, loans with low interest rates, and even merchandise, various discounts ... gave Ukraine over 23 years more than $ 200 billion. Oh, that Russia.
    1. Zementbomber April 30 2020 07: 45 New
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      I don’t know whether Russia "gave" as much as "200 billion." - but the States and the EU - spent only ~ 5 billion on us - and achieved enchanting success. I used to work with grants for both my Poles and Russians (Institute for the Study of Russia), and I can absolutely categorically say that your “leading people” with intelligence had a full epic file then. Yours completely seriously thought that "we will give a lot of dough to Yanukovych and top AlEgarhs - and all will be decided." The result is known ... Wiser (and even then - only partially) - only in 2014 - when it was already late ...
      1. Vadim Golubkov April 30 2020 08: 07 New
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        So what about coins? The leadership of Russia, I agree with you, screwed up, did not know that it was possible to buy you for only 5 billion, the Americans are great, they will help you, they are your brothers now.
        1. Zementbomber April 30 2020 08: 21 New
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          Well, I do not know. who the "cross" Ukrainians have "brothers" - and in our case, the Poles, are brothers only other Poles. The rest are just ordinary gangs ..., pah, condoms known! laughing Including the Americans.
          Russia, however, fell in love with Ukraine not because of greed, but because of the inability (and unwillingness) to work smartly and painstakingly with "focus groups." She is in this regard not alone, however - in exactly the same way Ford-Europe - lost the Daewoo in a dispute over AvtoZAZ in the 1990s. Although Ford spent one and a half times more on bribes. Dumb as elders of the Europeans, they thought that if you buy all the necessary ministers in Ukraine, the issue has been resolved. Oga - ShchAZ !! laughing
          Well, "for the coins" - that he knew - answered above.
          1. carstorm 11 April 30 2020 08: 58 New
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            o) went marketing) and how much pathos) I repeat, go through the woods on foot to the censor. there and tell. as you can see here, few people are interested) and everyone on the drum) say goodbye to a sim from an infofront fighter. you are boring and predictable like an orange.
            1. Zementbomber 2 May 2020 00: 33 New
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              When "everyone is on the drum" - they don’t put so many minuses. laughing But I realized that you merged. tongue
              1. Shadow041 12 May 2020 11: 31 New
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                negative Well, you can’t spit on you here, and they put the cons, so that you understand your attitude to that garbage that you carry. As for Kievan Rus, it has not existed since the 13th century, and Ukraine has nothing to do with it! Kievan Rus itself was one of many principalities during the period of fragmentation, and not the state. In addition to the phrase Kievan Rus, one can find the expression Muscovite Rus, Vladimir Rus, Novgorod Rus .... Since the 13th century, Kiev is a Catholic village of 200 yards in Poland - this is according to the recollections of a German traveler of that time. The metropolitan of Kiev in the 13th century permanently left Kiev for Vladimir, and from him to Moscow and never returned to Kiev because of persecution of Orthodoxy in Polish Kiev ... Tales of an allegedly ancient Ukrainian state first began to be inflated by the Bolsheviks after 1917, who divided the Russian empire into Russophobia patients, independent of Russia, the countries of the former scoop ... In the same 1924, the Donbass was stolen from Russia, which Ukraine had never entered before ... ALL of your Ukraine on the map of 1654 within the borders of which you have pushed into Russia and From Poland, in other places of your Ukraine there is not, was not and is not necessary !!!
  • Dmitry from Voronezh April 30 2020 05: 08 New
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    Ukraine, or as it was originally called Little Russia, had very good conditions for development: a mild climate, access to the sea, excellent conditions for agriculture, the presence of strategic resources such as coal from the Donets Basin and iron ore from the Kryvyi Rih deposits, high population density (people willingly settle in favorable climatic conditions). The Russian Empire, and later the USSR, provided the region with a high-quality transport network, a high level of education, thanks to which the region received valuable personnel for all industries. Unfortunately, it was with the formation of the Union that Little Russia received the first sprouts of independence in the form of a union republic. This emphasized difference from the Russian people subsequently led to the emergence of today's anti-Russian regime.
    1. Zementbomber April 30 2020 05: 36 New
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      Ukraine "originally" not It was called "Little Russia". This term appeared only in the XVIII century - and never applied to all of Ukraine. And the "first shoots of self-independence" appeared on its territory as early as the period that entered the Soviet history textbooks, as the "era of feudal fragmentation of Kievan Rus." Learn the materiel. negative
      1. Dmitry from Voronezh April 30 2020 05: 54 New
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        Of course, it was not called Little Russia, as well as Ukraine. I am aware of the history of the region. To objectively describe it, you need not even an article, but a series of articles. Reluctance was to go into details, so I wrote about Little Russia. As for the sprouts of independence, many countries and peoples went through periods of fragmentation with very different results: somewhere there was a collapse, somewhere a union. There are many countries in the world in which there are linguistic differences, but this does not prevent them from being single states. The ideas that drive people are important: either it is unity, or separatism.
        1. Zementbomber April 30 2020 06: 05 New
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          And what does the "language differences" have to do with it? Nations are formed as a purely mental, and not at all linguistic phenomenon. For example, there are completely different nations that generally speak the same language.
      2. carstorm 11 April 30 2020 05: 56 New
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        Kievan Rus what relation to Ukraine has?)))
        1. Zementbomber April 30 2020 06: 02 New
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          In Soviet historical science - there was a generally accepted point of view that the genesis of the Russian and Ukrainian peoples - began precisely at the time of Kievan Rus. wink
          1. carstorm 11 April 30 2020 06: 06 New
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            do you read across? 0 I did not speak about the people. I asked about the state of Ukraine.
            1. Zementbomber April 30 2020 06: 16 New
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              If about the state, then the history of Ukrainian statehood begins in the XNUMXth century. What is known in Soviet historical science as the Galician-Volyn principality.
              1. carstorm 11 April 30 2020 06: 38 New
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                and why not before our era? ) start by making the wheel better)
                1. Zementbomber April 30 2020 07: 00 New
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                  About the invention of the wheel by Ukrainians - this is to the lieutenant general of the SBU, retired pan Omelchenko. laughing But I advise you to study Soviet textbooks. It will help not to be a laughing stock. Will help a lot. good
                  1. Phoenix040 11 May 2020 00: 54 New
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                    Textbooks written to please the collective farm Bandera drunk Khrushchev ?! The book is probably strong, at the level of a masterpiece by Valiriy Bereznyak, who wrote a book with a title on which you can defend a dozen dissertations in psychiatry - Atlantis - pages of ancient Ukrainian history ... Those whose country is worthless always invent all kinds of garbage. If you look at the list of all admirals and generals, then the lion's share of them will fall on the countries of Latin America, where the admiral must command three boats. And so in your Ukroshumerii, on a fleet of 5 boats 13 admirals and the tank commander commanded them ...
                    1. Zementbomber 11 May 2020 03: 06 New
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                      Reference for RU-rAguley:
                      Khrushchev was born in that part of the Russian Empire, which was called among the people of KondOvaya Rus. He was a miner from the age of 18 and has never been a member of a collective farm, because at the time the first collective farms appeared, there was already a “Big Head”. And yes - you can take textbooks published by Comrade. Stalin I.V.
                      Those whose country is worthless always invent all kinds of garbage.

                      Yes, having read your textbooks on the history of Russia, one can quite agree with this.
                      And so in your Ukroshumerii, on a fleet of 5 boats 13 admirals and the tank commander commanded them ...

                      61 ship, boat and support vessel and 11 admiral posts in fact. Again, Russian info meat screwed up. laughing
                      1. Shadow041 12 May 2020 11: 18 New
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                        Khrushchev is not Russian, married to a woman from western Ukraine, and that’s it. If a Negro was born in the Russian Federation, he did not whitewash and did not become Russian, so your Mazepov Selyuk Khrushchev ... Where have you counted 61 warships in Ukraine, do you have combat boats and there aren’t so many ?! Burn on, maybe they’ll invite you to a circus to work, or to Zelensky’s place, to the laughter.
  • Plantagenet April 30 2020 06: 39 New
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    "In 1969, when it was believed that Bandera was long over, the head of the KGB department of the Ivano-Frankivsk region reported to the center:

    “The operational situation in the region is characterized by the presence among the local population of the deep roots of nationalist ideology ... The ideologically harmful and anti-Soviet activities of several nationalist groups that were involved in the nationalist processing of Soviet citizens were uncovered and suppressed, they propagated and disseminated anti-Soviet documents and slandered the national policy of the Soviet state

    Ideological cleansing was considered the number one task in the republic because the national idea did not die.

    The second Directorate of the KGB of Ukraine - counterintelligence (traditionally the most numerous and important!) Consisted of only 80 officers. And the fifth operational division (the fight against ideological sabotage) became the largest operational unit - 155 operational employees, twice as many! In no other republic has this happened. ”

    Leonid Mlechin "Stepan Bandera and the fate of Ukraine"
    1. Zementbomber April 30 2020 07: 05 New
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      Interesting numbers. laughing Although - and not reflecting the real picture. But one way or another - to Benitov “The Doctrine of Fascism” - I read it for the first time precisely thanks to our regional department of the KGB of the Ukrainian SSR in Kiev and Kiev region. For what is unknown to me, "Comrade Major" - and still sincerely grateful. good
    2. Zementbomber April 30 2020 07: 10 New
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      "In 1969, when it was believed that Bandera was long over

      It was believed that with the "Bandera underground it’s over. ”And not“ long ago, ”but only in 1960. As for“ ideological sabotage ”, the operational situation in the DA of the Ukrainian SSR was characterized as“ tense ”throughout the period 1939-1991. After that,“ glorious Chekists ” changed shoes in a jump. bully
  • Pavel T April 30 2020 08: 44 New
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    And who built Russia in the USSR? Georgian Dzhugashvili can (as they said about him: he accepted Russia with a plow, but left with a nuclear bomb), and if in his place then there would have been a Russian stavropolitse Gorbachev like that? (A rhetorical question) Then there was a Ukrainian (in your opinion - х.х .l)) Khrushchev, who America, and the whole world threatened with a kuzkin’s mother, then stagnant Brezhnev (-www, -Leonid Ilyich, this does not need to be read, these are Olympic rings (opening of the Olympic Games 1980)), Then you could just buy a subscription to gensekek funeral. And finally, Mikhail Sergeyevich himself))) Vadim Smirnov, you can immediately delete my comment, I know what breaks your psyche, like the local stalls
  • Kapellan23 April 30 2020 15: 29 New
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    Ukrainization:

    Soviet ethnocide - people call themselves Russian, but they will be redone into non-Russian ukromankurt.
    From the speech of the People's Commissar of Education of the Ukrainian SSR V.P. Zatonsky at the First All-Ukrainian Congress of Teachers in the midst of Ukrainianization:
    “Not only workers, but also peasants, Ukrainian peasants did not tolerate“ Ukrainians ”at that time (we, through the Rakovsky delegation in Kiev, received the minutes of the peasant meetings, the protocols were mostly with the seal of the village headman and everyone signed them - you see, what a wonderful conspiracy was )
    In these protocols, the peasants wrote to us: we all feel Russian and we hate Germans and Ukrainians and ask the RSFSR to join us. "

    Ukrainization, Belarusization and labor legislation:

    To minimize the number of Russian books - 1924:


    https://zhenziyou.livejournal.com/tag/украинизация
    https://zhenziyou.livejournal.com/tag/белоруссизация
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  • Ivan Sed 3 May 2020 08: 29 New
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    Mom - Ukraine, Father - RF.
  • Shteffan 22 May 2020 10: 00 New
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    And how do you like this statement: HOW RUSSIA was BUILT in the USSR. OR HOW Belarus was BUILT in the USSR.