Military Review

And yet thanks to Hollande for the Mistral

126

If it were not for the demarche of the French president Francois Hollande in 2014-2015, then today would be part of the Russian Navy fleet universal landing ships - helicopter carriers of the Mistral type. How many obscene words then Hollande addressed to him, how many accusations of aiding overseas interests.


However, after several years the situation is such that there are many people in the military environment of our country who are ready to some extent thank the then French president for refusing to transfer the Mistral and for the decision to return the money plus forfeit. It would seem sheer nonsense. Why thank the person who not only disrupted the contract, but also to a certain extent dealt a blow to the military-technical cooperation of the two countries? ..

But that’s the whole point. Staying in euphoria from visions about the possibilities of beneficial cooperation in the military-technical cooperation with the countries of the North Atlantic military bloc of Russia, you and I poured a tub of ice water on our heads. We woke up ... We woke up ... We realized that somewhere in terms of improving defense capabilities we turned the wrong way. And it’s good that they wandered close to this maze - they quickly found a way out (it’s the same entrance).

Indeed, billions of dollars of financing from a foreign (and even NATO) manufacturer of military equipment to the detriment of their own designers, developers, and industrial enterprises is, to put it mildly, a dubious decision. And if it weren’t for this pro-American brain and for some other Mr. Monsieur Hollande there, then our Navy would have these two Mistrals ... or these two Mistrals would have our Navy ... what the experts, as they say, have to to find out…

Instead of the French Mistral


What today? If Russia has UDCs in the coming years, it will be ships of its own production. Two helicopter carriers with a declared displacement of 23 thousand tons each were laid at the Zaliv Kerch plant. From the unambiguous advantages: their jobs, taxes to the Russian budget, the workload of the enterprise, independence from Western technology and political sentiment.

Are there any downsides? Perhaps they are the same ones that were during the frantic desire of the military department to acquire French-made helicopter carriers, due to become Vladivostok and Sevastopol. More precisely, these are not even minuses, but at least questions. Questions in the use of these warships, in that military tactics and strategy, where the UDC could play an important role.

Egyptian experience


By the way, the same issues today, as it turns out, arise in Egypt, which became the proud owner of the former Vladivostok and Sevastopol, with a flick of the hand of a ship painter who turned into Gamal Abdel Nasser and Anvar Sadat.

And yet thanks to Hollande for the Mistral

If initially the Egyptians with enthusiasm announced that their country was the first in the region to become the owner of universal landing ships, now exclamations of enthusiasm have diminished. The fact is that the two "Mistral" of the Egyptian Navy, allegedly, were going to be used for counter-terrorism operations in the Sinai - with landing and air support (attack helicopters deck aviation) But the terrorists, as the Egyptian command found out, for some reason did not want to wait for the arrival of "Gamal Abdel Nasser" and "Anwar Sadat" in the coastal zone, but strove to delve further into the desert.

Now, two helicopter carriers are increasingly in standby mode of participation in operations, as well as continuing to form an air wing, filling hangars for equipment with combat units in the form tanks, Armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles.

But where exactly will Egypt conduct operations with the participation of the Mistrals, judging by the long downtime of the UDC, he does not particularly understand yet. In this regard, helicopter carriers for Cairo are more expensive toys that "stand on a shelf" for decorative purposes.

It turns out that we really should say to Mr. Hollande thanks for the “Mistral” - for allowing me to come to my senses ...
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  1. Doccor18
    Doccor18 April 29 2020 09: 51 New
    13
    There is a contradictory feeling.
    On the one hand, they are not particularly needed.
    On the other hand, what’s bad if the Navy had the opportunity to transfer the MP battalion to the Pacific Fleet or Black Sea Fleet.
    Of course, you need to build yourself,
    but so far no.
    1. Alekseev
      Alekseev April 29 2020 10: 44 New
      10
      Quote: Doccor18
      There is a contradictory feeling.

      That is unlikely.
      Совершенно согласен с автором в его восклицаниях: "Проснулись… Очнулись… Сообразили" good
      And also in a question who would have whom: our fleet of Mistral or they him.
      Our country has considerable, but still they are far from unlimited. The task of the Navy is not primarily large-scale overseas expeditions, but the mainland defense and the deployment of strategic nuclear deterrence forces.
      It is prestigious to have UDC and, all the more so, AUG. But we still will not surpass America and NATO and it is very expensive, it was not for nothing that there was a joke in due time that the Americans decided to give us a couple of strike aircraft carriers. yes In order to quickly ruin the USSR.
      Да и острова в Арктике, Курилы и пр. - это "непотопляемые авианосцы" гораздо более эффективные для наших задач.
      Посмотрим, что за корабли построят на нашем "Заливе" в Керчи за наши деньги. Думается, это будут не классические УДК для заморских операций против туземцев, но корабли имеющие более широкие ударные возможности и солидную ПВО.
      1. grandfather_Kostya
        grandfather_Kostya April 29 2020 11: 18 New
        +6
        Да и острова в Арктике, Курилы и пр. - это "непотопляемые авианосцы" гораздо более эффективные для наших задач.

        "Непотопляемые" только густо заселённые острова, а все остальные возможно придётся таки отбивать десантом для сохранения линии морской границы и экономической зоны на шельфе. Необходимость в любых средствах борьбы на море должна исходить из наших геграфических реалий.
        1. Tatyana
          Tatyana April 29 2020 15: 39 New
          +7
          Что сегодня вместо французских "Мистралей"?
          If Russia has UDCs in the coming years, it will be ships of its own production.
          Two helicopter carriers with a declared displacement of 23 thousand tons each were planted at the Zaliv Kerch plant.
          From the unambiguous advantages: their jobs, taxes to the Russian budget, the workload of the enterprise, independence from Western technology and political sentiment.

          They did this in the defense industry of the USSR - everything is yours!
          The Chinese have been doing this for a long time (however, they were mainly engaged in technocopying foreign products) and do not think to refuse it.
          А наши российские "рыночники"-либералы со времён Горбачёва и Ельцина занимались в РФ самоликвидацией России.
          1. Dart2027
            Dart2027 April 29 2020 19: 33 New
            +5
            Quote: Tatiana
            They did this in the defense industry of the USSR - everything is yours!

            Landing ships were built in Poland.
            1. Tatyana
              Tatyana April 30 2020 04: 18 New
              +2
              Quote: Dart2027
              Landing ships were built in Poland.

              Yes, it was like that - we built landing ships in Poland - since 1970. Then Poland was not a country of NATO, but was a country of the Warsaw Pact.

              REFERENCE
              The Warsaw Treaty of Friendship, Cooperation and Mutual Assistance was signed by Albania, Hungary, Bulgaria, Poland, East Germany, Romania, Czechoslovakia and the USSR in 1955 - 6 years after the formation of NATO.
              1. Dart2027
                Dart2027 April 30 2020 19: 14 New
                0
                Quote: Tatiana
                but was a Warsaw Pact country

                It was. But the USSR could not build everything by itself, only the VD was gone for a long time, and the ships were needed yesterday.
          2. Peter is not the first
            Peter is not the first April 29 2020 22: 17 New
            +6
            Maybe I missed something, but
            Two helicopter carriers with a declared displacement of 23 thousand tons each were planted at the Zaliv Kerch plant.

            Where did the word come from, that they were laid? This is not in the news yet. And according to the announcements, the bookmark was planned either on April 28 or May 10. The first date has passed and is quiet. Let's hope that on May 10 we will finally hear about the laying of Russian UDC.
            In the meantime, the article is too bravura.
            1. Fan-fan
              Fan-fan April 29 2020 23: 00 New
              +6
              Автор статьи пытается оправдать бестолковых руководителей, которых просто "кинули" западные "партнёры", наших властителей они ни во что не ставят. Автор заявляет, что Мистрали нам не нужны, в то время, чтобы доставлять грузы в Сирию приходится скупать по всему миру старые корабли, так как своих нет.
              А вообще автора пропесочил ещё дедушка Крылов в басне "Лиса и виноград", помните, лиса старалась достать виноград и как поняла, что не получится, сразу заявила: "Да ни очень то и нужен он мне, кислый", так и сейчас - мол не нужны они нам были, зря заказывали.
              1. Cyril G ...
                Cyril G ... April 30 2020 09: 28 New
                +2
                100500 + ....
              2. ABM
                ABM April 30 2020 11: 23 New
                0
                Mistrals like barges would carry goods to Syria?
                1. Antiliberast
                  Antiliberast 1 May 2020 02: 52 New
                  +3
                  Quote: ABM
                  Mistrals like barges would carry goods to Syria?

                  Зачем как баржи?. Как БДК "Иван Грен" если мне склероз не изменяет..
              3. NEOZ
                NEOZ April 30 2020 14: 55 New
                +2
                Quote: Fan-Fan
                We do not need highways, while in order to deliver goods to Syria we have to buy old ships all over the world, since there are none of ours.

                Are you crazy ??? carry goods to UDC !!!!!!!!!
            2. Nemchinov Vl
              Nemchinov Vl April 30 2020 16: 51 New
              +1
              Quote: Peter is not the first
              Where did the word come from, that they were laid? This is not in the news yet
              I was also surprised ... belay
              Quote: Peter is not the first
              Let's hope that on May 10 we will finally hear about the laying of Russian UDC.
              I agree in part ... I explain ... I do not want to hear the news about the bookmark 2 UDC ... One probably makes sense so far (чтобы иметь возможности увидеть реальный уровень судостроительных компетенций, но при этом иметь место увидеть в процессе постройки и первые "косяки" проектирования)but two is too much !! Mortgage immediately two SUCH NEW SHIP UNDERWORKED PROJECT (!), столь не малого ВИ, это возможность на максимально долгий срок, - "заблокировать", часть судостроительных возможностей завода "Залив" !!! И это очень скверно !!! А вот если бы всё таки там закладывался один УДК, и один фр. 22350.1 (для нужд ЧФ), чтобы было ясно видно и компетенции завода in their construction (although formally for today this is the most developed project of the Navy ships for the DMZ), then in my understanding, this would be a plus ... Because when a project of new ships of the EM / BOD class appears (it doesn’t matter if it is Project 22350M or a 3-D project of rethinking 11560, 21956 digitized for modern requirements or something otherwise ...), then they will be handed over "приоритетным" заказом на "Северную верфь" (fact), but at the same time, of necessity "постройки рабочих лошадей формирования КПУГ" will remain ... will not disappear (!). И если к тому времени "Залив" (ну или "Янтарь") уже будут иметь именно СВОЙ опыт постройки таких кораблей как 22350.1, то это будет важно (!). yes
              Quote: Fan-Fan
              The author claims that we do not need Mistral, while in order to deliver goods to Syria, we have to buy old ships all over the world, since there are none of ours.
              грузы в Сирию доставляют БПК а не УДК ?! И их уже строит "Янтарь" ...
              Quote: ABM
              Mistrals like barges would carry goods to Syria?
              I think it would be too expensive (!) that's why they use the BDK and transport aircraft ...
              1. bayard
                bayard April 30 2020 21: 24 New
                0
                Greetings to Vladimir.
                Понимаю Вашу привязанность к старым проектам 11560 и 21956 , но они на сегодняшний момент совершенно не актуальны . Хотя бы потому , что вся их компановка расчитана на старые виды вооружения , и потому , что их ударное вооружение ограничено максимум 24 КР в 3-х УКСК . Это равнозначно современному 22350 , который практически в два раза компактней(имеет в два раза меньшее водоизмещение) при примерно такой же ожидаемой боевой эффективности . Простой вариант модернизации "Шапошникова" уже почти выводит его(кроме ПВО) на уровень этих проектов при сохранённом "Полиноме" и выгодах от этого .
                Therefore, the 22350M project is much more preferable here - it is largely unified with the 22350 and is a continuation of it, and has a missile defense and missile defense system worthy of any modern destroyer.
                Regarding the construction of the 22350 or 22350M in Kerch, I already wrote that this is not the best solution for the newly built Shipyard, which has not built anything serious from scratch in modern times. He needs a buildup on any one, but with that voluminous and mass (conditionally) project, so as not to scatter meager personnel on completely dissimilar projects. And the UDC project to its capabilities is very welcome.
                As for the risks associated with laying two hulls at once, I share your concerns, but it seems to me that they have already been taken into account by the schedule of the expected delivery dates for the first and second ships - the second 2 years after the first. Apparently after laying two at once, the second one will stand in the form of a mortgage section and expect the removal of the body of the first, and only then, taking into account the experience of its construction and all the jambs and the problems solved, will be completed. Otherwise, it is simply impossible to understand the difference in the deadlines for the 1st and 2nd.
                But the laying of 2 of these large ships at once will look very impressive, the press will spread like praises, the patriotic public will perk up, and the subcontractors will receive large one-time orders and will be able to build their production plans with more confidence.
                The question is ... whether they are.
                In the light of coronovirus hysteria and the expected recession in the economy and a reduction in budget revenues from it ...
                I really would not want to witness the rejection of these plans.
                And I really want more first ranks in the system. drinks
          3. Normal ok
            Normal ok April 30 2020 19: 52 New
            +2
            Quote: Tatiana
            Что сегодня вместо французских "Мистралей"?
            If Russia has UDCs in the coming years, it will be ships of its own production.
            Two helicopter carriers with a declared displacement of 23 thousand tons each were planted at the Zaliv Kerch plant.
            From the unambiguous advantages: their jobs, taxes to the Russian budget, the workload of the enterprise, independence from Western technology and political sentiment.

            They did this in the defense industry of the USSR - everything is yours!

            Here you like beautiful words to speak without knowing the topic. So, offhand, - almost all of the Soviet Large Landing Ships (project 775) was built by Poland. If you delve into the Internet you can add more facts.
          4. NordUral
            NordUral 1 May 2020 19: 59 New
            -1
            А наши российские "рыночники"-либералы со времён Горбачёва и Ельцина занимались в РФ liquidation Russia.
            Reply
            So it will be more correct.
      2. svp67
        svp67 April 29 2020 12: 17 New
        +4
        hi
        Quote: Alekseev
        Совершенно согласен с автором в его восклицаниях: "Проснулись… Очнулись… Сообразили"

        Ну особо как то это не скажешь, так как каждый раз приходиться "просыпаться" после ушата холодной воды...
        Quote: Alekseev
        Да и острова в Арктике, Курилы и пр. - это "непотопляемые авианосцы" гораздо более эффективные для наших задач.

        Which also need to be protected, and in this case the UDCs are perfectly suited. Do not forget that this is not just a landing ship, but also a control point and a floating hospital ...
        1. Grits
          Grits April 29 2020 15: 03 New
          +3
          Quote: svp67
          Do not forget that this is not just a landing ship, but also a control point and a floating hospital ...

          This Mistral was both a hospital and a control center. And our UDC will be just UDC
          1. svp67
            svp67 April 29 2020 16: 17 New
            +2
            Quote: Gritsa
            This Mistral was both a hospital and a control center. And our UDC will be just UDC

            Without PU and a hospital, we will have DC
      3. Cyrus
        Cyrus April 30 2020 10: 18 New
        0
        You either have a fleet or not, everything else is from the evil one.
    2. Civil
      Civil April 29 2020 16: 27 New
      +3
      I agree that we must build it ourselves and it is in the Crimea, especially since all the drawings and solutions are known. And BIOS Zenith also received)
    3. Xnumx vis
      Xnumx vis April 29 2020 18: 08 New
      +4
      Quote: Doccor18
      There is a contradictory feeling.
      On the one hand, they are not particularly needed.


      Это особенность взгляда со стороны .. Особенно с особой стороны ... В конце восьмидесятых , начале девяностых годов был особый взгляд на нужность флота ... Особенно Черноморского ... -" Закрытая лужа , самотопы , корабли вообще обременительны для государства ! " Время всё ставит на своё место ... Да лужа , но наша! Да самотопы , но ходят по Средиземному морю , держат в напряжении "партнёров " ... Флот очень дорогое удовольствие для любого государства ... Но пока есть флот , есть независимый от других выход к морю . Свобода мореплавания для торговых кораблей .
    4. max702
      max702 2 May 2020 10: 20 New
      +1
      Мистрали использовались бы прежде всего как транспорты войск.. Именно логистическая составляющая была наиболее ценна, остальное только как экспериментальная боевая учеба.. Про миллиард это абсолютная мелочь мы совсем недавно ПРОСТО ТАК подарили 404й 2.9млрд и ничего не поперхнулись и не заметили. так что один миллиард потраченный у буржуев был бы не в виртуальных ноликах на счетах( которые Набибулина успешно переправила бы своим хозяевам) , а в реальном морском железе в крайне необходимом для нас сегменте ВМФ..Всем понятно что ходили бы эти Мистрали в Сирийском экспрессе как электрички позволяя более гибко реагировать на запросы нашей группировки в Сирии и именно по ЭТОЙ ПРИЧИНЕ нам их и не продали..То что заложат в Керчи новые корабли замечательно! Но во первых время, во вторых строить в "Заливе" можно было не только УДК но и другие корабли, хотя сейчас флоту нужно абсолютно все и побольше..Мистрали не были бы лишние ни по одной причине нужные и СВОЕВРЕМЕННЫЕ корабли..Увы но вашингтонский обком продолжает держать все под своим контролем(Ау.. СП-2)
    5. fif21
      fif21 2 May 2020 14: 28 New
      -1
      Quote: Doccor18
      Of course, you need to build yourself,
      but so far no.

      For what? One virus, of microscopic size, put the whole world in number 5 position. And the point is to bring billions into the arms race? hi
  2. knn54
    knn54 April 29 2020 09: 52 New
    +3
    "Мы пойдем СВОИМ путем".
    1. antivirus
      antivirus April 29 2020 10: 10 New
      +3
      UDC can rise up to Venisuela along the Amazon! —That's our way, the defense of the Orinoco oil fields!
    2. novel66
      novel66 April 29 2020 10: 12 New
      0
      exactly even know how
  3. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins April 29 2020 09: 52 New
    22
    Странная ура-статья. Историю с "мистралями" помним все. Что интересно, деньги вернули и... Их сразу вложили в разработку и строительство аналогов? Нет. Заложили аж через пять лет, когда построят (дай бог) не известно. Итого, имеем:
    1) UDC we do not have.
    2) Миллиард "растворился" на иные нужды.
    What rejoice?
    1. parma
      parma April 29 2020 10: 02 New
      16
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      Странная ура-статья. Историю с "мистралями" помним все. Что интересно, деньги вернули и... Их сразу вложили в разработку и строительство аналогов? Нет. Заложили аж через пять лет, когда построят (дай бог) не известно. Итого, имеем:
      1) UDC we do not have.
      2) Миллиард "растворился" на иные нужды.
      What rejoice?

      The author forgot that we had half of each UDC built and that we simply didn’t have technologies before this contract? And with the way our fleet is being built, UDC will be built for another 20 years, and then they will immediately go into modernization (it wouldn’t work out with the French) ...
      Moreover, the question is, everything from the money back received remains open, the French say that they did not pay penalties, ours that paid, and so on ...
      But in general, the position is standard pro-government — everything that’s done well that hasn’t been studied even better, only the question is, nuclear submarines do not participate in the database either, maybe they are not needed?
    2. Rostislav
      Rostislav April 29 2020 10: 09 New
      -6
      To the fact that a billion has returned to the budget.
      И не "растворился", а был потрачен на другие нужды.
      1. Tiksi-3
        Tiksi-3 April 29 2020 10: 52 New
        15
        Quote: Rostislav
        To the fact that a billion has returned to the budget.
        И не "растворился", а был потрачен на другие нужды.

        он как раз вернулся и потерялся, как вы правильно подметили "растворился"
    3. jekasimf
      jekasimf April 29 2020 10: 10 New
      12
      Нууу,во первых,вернув деньги за Мистрали,Россия таки получила почти всю технологию постройки таких кораблей.Это к "вложили в разработку".Во вторых,Россия таки заработала на продаже вертолетов Египту.Что тоже "деньги в разработку".Третье.начав строить УДК свои,Россия 6 лет потратила и на проектирование корабля,и на восстановление самого судостроительного завода....Да и с двигателями все было плохо.В четвертых,деньги не растворились,а были потрачены внутри страны,в том числе и на постройку корветов и эсминцев.И ,опять же на модернизацию судостроительного завода,а не отданы Французам.По сути,можно и порадоваться.
      1. Grits
        Grits April 29 2020 15: 06 New
        +7
        Quote: jekasimf
        In fact, you can rejoice

        Can. Already 10 years to rejoice. Or even more, maybe ...
    4. bayard
      bayard April 30 2020 07: 37 New
      +3
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      What rejoice?

      There is definitely nothing to rejoice about - there is no UDC, and they will not be soon. Not cheaper than the French, and the quality of what will turn out to say is too early. The only plus from that story is that we still have the documentation, and most likely it was used in the design of our UDC.
      But what we lost is not only two UDCs not delivered in 2015, these are ANOTHER two of the same UDCs that should have been built at our shipyards under license, and most likely in cooperation, which would accelerate process. As a result, today we would have FOUR such UDCs in operation - two for Pacific Fleet and two for ... we would like to first go to the Northern Fleet, but in these conditions, most likely at least one of them would be based on the Black Sea Fleet. And both would work on the Syrian Express.
      Ну , а сейчас конечно - да , для "Залива" разгонный заказ и придумать лучше нельзя , вот только сроки ... к концу десятилетия .
    5. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... April 30 2020 09: 30 New
      +2
      In the Mediterranean, as the flagship of the forces in Syria, it would be quite appropriate
    6. NEOZ
      NEOZ April 30 2020 14: 59 New
      0
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      What rejoice?

      to this:
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      Pledged
  4. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek April 29 2020 09: 57 New
    +9
    Is it not possible to buy UDC with a discount from Egypt back? Or exchange for wheat? Its cost in rubles and lower than in the global market + discount. And Egypt, anyway, did not buy for its own.
    1. antivirus
      antivirus April 29 2020 10: 12 New
      +2
      + More nuclear fuel amers give for free for F35 and not needed a \ nosy (2 or 3)
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek April 29 2020 10: 21 New
        0
        F35 ... quite ..
        1. antivirus
          antivirus April 29 2020 12: 56 New
          0
          can their marines rent?
    2. aleks26
      aleks26 April 29 2020 10: 33 New
      +6
      Quote: Zaurbek
      Is it not possible to buy UDC with a discount from Egypt back?

      А нужно? Кто будет обслуживать французские двигатели и прочее ИХНЕЕ оборудование? Французы? Запчасти, ремонт? Сколько будет стоить? А в самый ответственный момент станут "в позу", что будем делать? Что, России прямо горят эти вертолетоносцы?
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA April 29 2020 12: 49 New
        +4
        Quote: aleks26
        Who will serve the French engines and other equipment?

        С каких это пор "Вяртсиля" стала французской фирмой? smile
        На "Мистралях" стоят финские дизели. Которые в нашем ВМФ эксплуатируются аж со времён СССР - "Фотий Крылов" тому примером.
        А насчёт "ихнего оборудования" - так исходно эти корабли заказывались с учётом установки нашего оборудования. Или что - корабли заказали, а системы для них сделать not shmogli (and sighed in relief when the boats went to the side)?
        1. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek April 29 2020 13: 54 New
          0
          There are the main diesel engines, only the western ones are standing and the BIOS is fashionable ... and very important.
        2. aleks26
          aleks26 April 29 2020 14: 47 New
          +2
          Quote: Alexey RA
          С каких это пор "Вяртсиля" стала французской фирмой?
          На "Мистралях" стоят финские дизели.

          А финны "старшего брата" ослушаются, если с его стороны последует команда "фас"?
          Are they directly independent and best friends of Russia? How much can you step on the same rake?
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA April 29 2020 15: 32 New
            +4
            Quote: aleks26
            А финны "старшего брата" ослушаются, если с его стороны последует команда "фас"?
            Are they directly independent and best friends of Russia?

            Ещё раз: ВМФ эксплуатирует дизели Вяртсиля со времён СССР. Кроме того эти дизели используются и на гражданском флоте. И третье - помните про поведение капиталистов при 300% прибыли. Финны со времён железного занавеса зарабатывали на посредничестве в "серых" сделках по поставке нам нерекомендованной и запрещённой продукции. При постройке для нас "Миров" финны умудрились обойти все возможные ограничения, несмотря на всё недовольство США.
          2. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek April 30 2020 15: 07 New
            +1
            Финны , в отличие, от "братьев и братушек" честные бизнесмены почти без политики....
    3. NEOZ
      NEOZ April 30 2020 15: 00 New
      0
      Quote: Zaurbek
      And you can’t UDC with a discount ohm

      but not ....
      the user is registered in the contract ... to change the owner, it is necessary to amend the contract.
  5. donavi49
    donavi49 April 29 2020 09: 59 New
    14
    Well, they are quite loaded. Last exercises in January.


    230 days a year - a military campaign, here in Egypt there is no such request yes. However, let’s say, if they were part of the Navy, they would run for 230 days along the Novorossiysk-Tartus + line and run to all sorts of Greece and Cyprus along the way to display the flag.
    1. Strashila
      Strashila April 29 2020 10: 06 New
      +1
      "Однако скажем, если бы они были в составе ВМФ, то они бы эти 230 дней бегали", очень сильно сомневаюсь что бегали бы, в большей степени вероятности они просто стояли у причальной стенки из-за отсутствия расходных материалов по эксплуатации, которые в первую очередь попали бы под различные эмбарго и запреты на поставки.
      1. donavi49
        donavi49 April 29 2020 10: 15 New
        13
        Why? For example, this ship is running, even circumnavigating the globe. And there are consumables of foreign manufacture. Why did you take this ship? Because there is also Wartsila, though a slightly different performance.

        There even Italian cranes if that wink .

        Well, RTOs on MTUs run quietly, better than the Chinese new ones. wink
        1. Altona
          Altona April 29 2020 10: 34 New
          +1
          Quote: donavi49
          Because there is also Wartsila, though a slightly different performance.

          ---------------------
          Я бы на месте олигархов купил бы эту Вяртсилу полностью на корню. Но ума нет- как зовут, правильно, "специалист мирового уровня".
          1. your1970
            your1970 April 29 2020 12: 43 New
            +4
            Quote: Altona
            Я бы на месте олигархов купил бы эту Вяртсилу полностью на корню. Но ума нет- как зовут, правильно, "специалист мирового уровня".
            and what - someone sells her???

            Вяртсила и во времена СССР корабли для нас строила - и моряки хвалили эти "иномарки"
            1. Altona
              Altona April 29 2020 13: 53 New
              +1
              Quote: your1970
              and what - someone is selling it ???

              Вяртсила и во времена СССР корабли для нас строила - и моряки хвалили эти "иномарки"

              Quote: your1970
              and what - someone is selling it ???

              Вяртсила и во времена СССР корабли для нас строила - и моряки хвалили эти "иномарки"

              --------------------------
              In kursy, I, and for a long time, from the time of the USSR, Vneshtorg catalogs were packed in packs in a hostel ... The rest is sold by Volvo and Saaba, to Indians and Chinese. A specialist is a specialist because he could buy a normal shipbuilding enterprise and know what to do with it. Or at least technology.
              1. bayard
                bayard April 30 2020 08: 03 New
                0
                Quote: Altona
                The rest is sold, by the Volvo and the Saab, to the Indians and Chinese. A specialist is a specialist because he could buy a normal shipbuilding enterprise and know what to do with it.

                It would be smarter here to stir up a joint venture on our territory, or to organize the production of power machines under license, and already yesterday.
        2. aleks26
          aleks26 April 29 2020 10: 36 New
          0
          Quote: donavi49
          Why? For example, this ship is running, even circumnavigating the globe. And there are consumables of foreign manufacture.

          А это как "старший брат" скажет. Примеров мало?
          1. donavi49
            donavi49 April 29 2020 10: 46 New
            12
            This is the F-14. It has unique TF30 engines. In order to prevent supplies to Iran, in the 90s all engines were cut. It has unique mechanisms to prevent deliveries to Iran after the removal of the Tomkets, all key components have been disposed of, or taken into numbered storage pending disposal.

            However, almost 40 years have passed, and they fly.




            This is a plane. He has a lot of unique details that are no longer in the world. And he is flying.

            Why can't a ship that has mass systems with high unification for other components / commerce go around? The Navy uses many ships with similar power plants and other systems.
            1. Vikxnumx
              Vikxnumx April 29 2020 11: 44 New
              +5
              In Iran, there is a will to make work ... This is not to steal and share!
              "Сталина на Вас нет!" (с)
            2. NEOZ
              NEOZ April 30 2020 15: 21 New
              0
              Quote: donavi49
              Why can't a ship that has mass systems with high unification for other components / commerce go around?

              because of the 60 pieces of F14 combat ready about 10 units ... no more than 17% .....
              Why do you need UDC combat-ready by 17%?
            3. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... 3 May 2020 21: 46 New
              0
              I read that they completely mastered the repair of the Tomcat and the engines to it, although the problems are certainly higher than the roof. In addition, a clone of the F-5 Tiger was prepared for the series. This is an achievement for a country that did not have an aviation industry 40 years ago from the word in general. Moreover, all this time, Iran sat under sanctions.
  6. Pavel57
    Pavel57 April 29 2020 10: 01 New
    -3
    UDC and for the Siiyi ​​express are useless.
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 April 29 2020 10: 07 New
      13
      Why?

      1 UDC in the option to upload to all areas, will replace 3-3,5 BDK 775 projects in a similar configuration.
      Mistral UDCs are capable of transporting helicopters without disassembly, including land helicopters, including even the Mi-26. What is impossible to accomplish by the fleet and even aviation. Roughly speaking, one Mistral will replace 3 flights of Ruslan and 2 more BDKs with a bonus technique.

      I do not argue that it is better to use cargo ships. But the reality is that there are very few cargo ships that are not afraid of automatic sanctions, urgently bought 6 auxiliaries that have fallen apart today, only 1 alive now, 1 is recovering, 1 is still in doubt (sanctions details are not available), 2 are contracted for recycling, 1 in the process of withdrawal and preparation for decommissioning. Tkachenko will not transport everything in one person, and he is not eternal. As a result, the full load of all available BDK + rotation of the BDK from other fleets.
      1. Pavel57
        Pavel57 April 29 2020 11: 29 New
        -1
        donavi49, with Mistral you would get expensive cargo ships that are under sanction pressure, without spare parts.

        Yes, a couple of times you would take the Mi-26.
        1. donavi49
          donavi49 April 29 2020 11: 52 New
          +7
          These ships are also under sanction pressure, without spare parts and norms wink




          This does not include raptoryat / BC, any hydrographs, tugboats and ships for the coast guard.
          1. timokhin-aa
            timokhin-aa 1 May 2020 20: 23 New
            0
            This is still the norm, in the future, all Buyan-M will have a very sad future, except for those with Chinese diesels.

            With spare parts for them there will be real problems. Later.
  7. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek April 29 2020 10: 22 New
    +8
    I propose to talk when we see our ships of similar displacement ..... and destination.
    1. Tiksi-3
      Tiksi-3 April 29 2020 10: 54 New
      +8
      Quote: Zaurbek
      I propose to talk when we see our ships of similar displacement ..... and destination.

      that is, after 10 years?
      1. 9PA
        9PA April 29 2020 13: 54 New
        +6
        Not in this country. Maybe the USSR 2.0 or the Russian state what. Not in this Russia
      2. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek April 29 2020 13: 57 New
        +2
        It will not be so bad yet.
  8. Pavel73
    Pavel73 April 29 2020 10: 25 New
    +2
    Именно завязка на иностранные комплектующие изделия не позволила в своё время России достроить четыре мощных линкора типа "Измаил". Хотя их и успели спустить на воду, все в конце концов были разделены на металл.
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek April 29 2020 14: 02 New
      0
      The main thing is that the fleet does not develop — the unpredictable future of the country for the perspective of up to 50 years ..... as soon as it turned out and the fleet grew. As soon as we achieve this, he will grow again. And if in every 100 years there are two revolutions and two wars ..... then we sail on the coast.
      1. Pavel73
        Pavel73 April 29 2020 14: 35 New
        +5
        Кто-то из английских адмиралов однажды сказал: 'Лучший способ победить флот противника - это не дать ему его построить". Вот и не дают.
        1. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek April 29 2020 14: 46 New
          +3
          So we do not give ourselves ..... who made two revolutions? The tsar was removed by the generals, the USSR themselves collapsed .... and on the ruins of the enemies, of course, dance and help.
        2. Nemchinov Vl
          Nemchinov Vl April 30 2020 17: 06 New
          -1
          Quote: Pavel73
          Кто-то из английских адмиралов однажды сказал: 'Лучший способ победить флот противника - это не дать ему его построить". They don’t give.
          Это Вы наверное про контракт на новый ледокол "Лидер", который по своей цене (127,6 млрд.) СЪЕДАЕТ сумму на четыре фрегата 22350.1 ....?! belay Is not it ?! fellow
          Quote: Zaurbek
          So we do not give ourselves ...
          - this is probably a statement (in what way - do not give !!!) laughing
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA April 29 2020 15: 38 New
      +2
      Quote: Pavel73
      Именно завязка на иностранные комплектующие изделия не позволила в своё время России достроить четыре мощных линкора типа "Измаил".

      При завязке на отечественные комплектующие их точно так же не достроили бы. Ибо орудия ГК для "Измаилов" смог сделать только "Виккерс".
      Until October 1917, at least 10 356/52-mm guns were delivered from England, and the NEO did not deliver a single one. Field tests of 356/52-mm guns took place in 1917 at a special Durlyacher training ground. In 1922, 8 ready-made Vickers cannons and 7 unfinished NEO guns were stored at the NEO, 4 of which accounted for 60%.
      © Shirokorad
      1. Pavel73
        Pavel73 April 29 2020 19: 40 New
        0
        Вот и не надо было закладывать такую артиллерию, с которой только Виккерс справится. Лучше бы сделали ещё четыре "Севастополя" с 12-дюймовками.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA April 29 2020 19: 54 New
          +1
          Quote: Pavel73
          Вот и не надо было закладывать такую артиллерию, с которой только Виккерс справится. Лучше бы сделали ещё четыре "Севастополя" с 12-дюймовками.

          А смысл? "Сева" - это дредноут первого поколения, он уже на фоне 13,5-14" ЛК смотрится довольно бледно.
          А уж если вспомнить, что в один год с "Измаилами" была заложена 15" "Королева", а также про отечественные сроки постройки, то получится, что альтернативные "Севы" будут просто кормом для введённых в строй одновременно с ними ЛК других стран.
          Тут, боюсь, даже "Император" не спасёт - не зря его хотели делать с 14".
          1. Pavel73
            Pavel73 April 29 2020 20: 02 New
            0
            Так ведь изначально "Измаилы" создавались, как линейные крейсера. Для таких кораблей 12 дюймов вполне достаточно. Вон немцы во вторую мировую активно использовали "Шарнхорст", "Гнейзенау" да и про "карманные" линкоры не забываем (у всех калибр 283 мм). Кстати, и три балтийских наших линкора неплохо своей артиллерией поработали в ВОВ, да и 12-дюймовые береговые батареи под Севастополем по немцам неплохо работали. Нет, 12 дюймов совсем немало.
      2. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... April 30 2020 17: 34 New
        0
        You have a mistake. Rather, the Shirokorad.
        Опытное 14" орудие ОСЗ было готово в 14-15 году и отправлено на полигон, но так как ОСЗ был перегружен военными заказами из за войны, часть заказа отдали на Виккерс
    3. Undecim
      Undecim April 29 2020 16: 26 New
      0
      And which foreign components were not enough to complete the linear cruisers?
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA April 29 2020 17: 15 New
        +1
        Quote: Undecim
        And which foreign components were not enough to complete the linear cruisers?

        Судя по статье Кузнецова в первом номере "Гангута", для "Измаилов" умудрились заказать за границей, например, опорные шары для погонов башен. Причём в Центральных державах.
        An important role in this was played by placing orders at enterprises in Germany and Austria-Hungary, some of which (for example, ball bearings and 203 mm steel balls under the bases of the rotating parts of the gun turrets) were not manufactured in Russia.
        1. Undecim
          Undecim April 29 2020 18: 01 New
          0
          I mean, they ordered something that they themselves could not produce, or could, but badly. Those. ordering abroad was not for the sake of ordering.
  9. Stirbjorn
    Stirbjorn April 29 2020 10: 32 New
    12
    Two helicopter carriers with a declared displacement of 23 thousand tons each were planted at the Zaliv Kerch plant.
    Wait, dear, have not laid anything yet. Even the project, as such, is unknown, I am silent about how long it will be built. And so, the Russian fleet lost two ready-made UDCs, ships of the 1st rank, which we have not built a single for many years. I do not share the optimism of the author at all.
    1. Fan-fan
      Fan-fan April 29 2020 23: 18 New
      +2
      А я уверен, что нынешние "менеджеры" никогда не построят что-то аналогичное Мистралям. Пустые фанфары автора, про то, что мы вот вот сейчас их построим. Даже одного эсминца за 20 лет не смогли построить, один фрегат почти 10 лет строим, а тут такую махину они построят - жидко обделаются. Это всю власть менять надо, да что власть, страну менять надо, чтобы такое построить.
  10. Pvi1206
    Pvi1206 April 29 2020 10: 36 New
    +4
    At least, jobs will be created and shipbuilding will be restored in the Crimea ... and this is good ...
  11. rocket757
    rocket757 April 29 2020 10: 38 New
    0
    About cooperation with the country from the camp of the ENEMY, now you can no longer talk ... the court could bring a bunch of problems!
    There are none of their own ... you can talk about this, but the matter will not budge from that place!
    In short, have passed!
    1. Fan-fan
      Fan-fan April 29 2020 23: 25 New
      +1
      Tens of billions are spent by Russia on the purchase of US bonds, and with this money you could order a bunch of ships. But the problem is that they do not want to deal with us, or rather, the Americans forbid the whole world to build ships for us. So the author is trying to sweeten the pill for us, saying that we ourselves do not really want it. And as in many articles and in this lie - since we need all kinds of ships, nothing is missing, especially such technologically advanced and complex vessels.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 April 30 2020 08: 13 New
        0
        The question is, but the final one, do we need to do it ourselves or do we have to run over the hill for any garbage?
        About the mistral - the usual expensive colonial trough ..... if this is very much needed ??? one has to learn to do such a thing.
        There is no sense in talking about the top ones, we must really deal with the reconstruction of the country.
      2. Nemchinov Vl
        Nemchinov Vl April 30 2020 17: 21 New
        -2
        Quote: Fan-Fan
        Tens of billions spent by Russia on purchases of US bonds,
        Well, no longer. Now it's rather the opposite !! No.
        Quote: Fan-Fan
        ..for this money one could order a bunch of ships ...
        ?! belay
        Quote: Fan-Fan
        But the problem is that they do not want to deal with us, or rather, the Americans forbid the whole world to build ships for us.
        тут уж точно, - "нет худа без добра" (!)
        Quote: Fan-Fan
        And as in many articles and in this lie - since we need all kinds of ships, nothing is missing,
        here it is necessary in the first place (as in the USSR !!) to develop that- which is especially not enough !! Marine gas turbine engine and gearboxes to them (sea gas turbine engine) !!!
        Quote: IMS
        Mistrals and the like are needed as part of local wars.
        yes, perhaps .. Alone in the Mediterranean, to coordinate the 5th OPEC, and its PLO ...?! The second (maximum) Pacific Fleet for the revival of the 17th OPEsk .... But her ... for a very long time there will be nothing to form .
  12. IC
    IC April 29 2020 10: 52 New
    +3
    And where exactly does Russia need to land in the areas of responsibility of the Northern Fleet and Pacific Fleet? What is the difference with Egypt. Following the logic of the author, so we can talk about the majority of surface ships. Mistrals and the like are needed as part of local wars.
    1. Alexander I
      Alexander I April 29 2020 11: 31 New
      +1
      Yes, in the Pacific Fleet zone we have friends around)))
      1. your1970
        your1970 April 29 2020 12: 46 New
        +1
        Quote: AlexanderI
        Yes, in the Pacific Fleet zone we have friends around)))

        Are you going to land in Japan ???
        1. Fan-fan
          Fan-fan April 29 2020 23: 29 New
          -1
          And what about Japan?
          How to deliver equipment and cargo to the Kuril Islands? And what about Kamchatka? And to Chukotka?
          Here are the connoisseurs of pancake.
          1. Nemchinov Vl
            Nemchinov Vl April 30 2020 17: 22 New
            0
            Quote: Fan-Fan
            How to deliver equipment and cargo to the Kuril Islands? And what about Kamchatka? And to Chukotka?
            At the BDK and transport aviation !!!
        2. rocket757
          rocket757 April 30 2020 08: 19 New
          +2
          The comrade does not understand that the delivery of goods is much more rational to carry out a simple dry cargo ship! You can build specialized military vehicles, which will be much cheaper and more efficient!
        3. Alexander I
          Alexander I April 30 2020 10: 17 New
          0
          Must be planted?
  13. AlexVas44
    AlexVas44 April 29 2020 11: 06 New
    -1
    ... thanks to Mr. Hollande for the Mistral - for allowing me to come to my senses ...

    But the president of Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, probably, curses himself for having bought unnecessary ships. Interestingly, did anyone show a desire to purchase them?
  14. Ethnarchist
    Ethnarchist April 29 2020 11: 25 New
    -1
    How much noise is out of thin air, there are no Mistral, money has been returned, rejoice ....
  15. xomaNN
    xomaNN April 29 2020 11: 51 New
    -2
    С одной стороны в 2015 получи мы франко-паромы, "сирийский экспресс" получил бы 2 вместительных военных транспорта.
    But on the other, for 1 lard? And so the technology received money back. And over the years they had the opportunity to develop their own DVKK project. And, I hope, we will revive the Kerch shipyard with their construction.
    1. Fan-fan
      Fan-fan April 29 2020 23: 32 New
      0
      5 years have passed, but nothing similar to UDC has appeared or even been laid down in our country, the author is disingenuous. Meanwhile, we have nothing to deliver goods to Syria.
      1. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... April 30 2020 17: 41 New
        0
        For Syria, a long time ago, back in the year 13, you should buy 3-4 roller skaters, paint them in a ball, raise the naval flag, fasten the AK-630 and 2-3 MTPU tanks onto the tank, and Bend and call them military transport and forth.
        1. timokhin-aa
          timokhin-aa 1 May 2020 20: 25 New
          +1
          The use of ships of the Navy was a temporary and necessary measure due to the fact that he screwed up the ATT.
          Сейчас ДТО работает, "Спарты" бегают грузы возятся.
    2. xomaNN
      xomaNN April 30 2020 19: 56 New
      0
      Продолжаю настаивать, что "удочка в руках полезнее, чем подаренная или купленная рыба laughing ))
      I mean, the Mistrals didn’t come to us, but to Egypt. But we still have the technology and money that can be spent on rigging the shipyard in Kerch and St. Petersburg. And load SevKB design YOUR DVK, and Kerch construction of those. And to have exactly the ships that our Navy needs. And in quantity, both in terms of money and needs love
  16. Connor MacLeod
    Connor MacLeod April 29 2020 11: 59 New
    +2
    It surprises me why we are building the nuclear icebreaker of project 22220 with a displacement of 33 tons in two and a half years, and the UDC Priboy with a displacement of 000 tons will be obtained at best by 28. Why is that?
    1. Nemchinov Vl
      Nemchinov Vl April 30 2020 17: 24 New
      0
      Quote: Connor Macleod
      and UDC Surf with a displacement of 28 tons will be received at best by 000.
      not kidding (!) By 2026, you definitely won’t get ... (3-4 years old should be added) ...
  17. faterdom
    faterdom April 29 2020 12: 33 New
    +1
    But they should have been not two, but all four! One per fleet.
    The difficult question is whether we won or lost, and it did not depend on us.
    In any case, Crimea is ours, it covers everything, and shipbuilding and engine building must be developed in any way.
    It was more difficult for Peter I, in shipbuilding they lagged behind for several centuries, and there was a desire, energy and will - everything turned out!
    What, didn’t the enemies crap Peter, and the boyars didn’t steal? He also fought a war with the European Union.
    But shipbuilding has established, along with the new capital built.
    Maybe the capital should be moved back to Petersburg?
    1. Kronos
      Kronos April 29 2020 13: 41 New
      +1
      Which EU? There was Sweden alone, and Russia with allied Poland, Denmark and neutral England and France
      1. faterdom
        faterdom April 29 2020 14: 09 New
        +1
        Poland and Denmark quickly flew out of the war, but there were plenty of Dutch-German-British in the Swedish army and navy. So, at least the North European army of Karl can be considered quite.
        1. Kronos
          Kronos April 29 2020 14: 34 New
          +2
          Mercenaries were enough everywhere they were in the Russian army
          1. faterdom
            faterdom April 29 2020 14: 47 New
            +1
            Do not compare the expensive military experts - generals and officers, and the fact that the mass of soldiers in Karl's army was Germans.
  18. 2 Level Advisor
    2 Level Advisor April 29 2020 12: 55 New
    +2
    "Однако спустя несколько лет ситуация такова, что в военной среде нашей страны находится немало людей, готовых в определённой степени поблагодарить тогдашнего французского президента за отказ передать «Мистрали» и за решение вернуть деньги плюс неустойку."

    The author, no one paid the penalty ..
    On August 27, compensation was announced in the amount of € 949,8 million and the Russian equipment installed on the ships was returned.
    "Du côté russe, alors que la non livraison était destinée à punir Vladimir Poutine pour son intervention en Ukraine, la Russie a obtenu le remboursement des sommes versées et même plus (40 milliards de roubles versées et 65 milliards récupérés du fait de la dévaluation du rouble)."

    Russia, the money back, given the devaluation. This is not a penalty, this is compensation.

    In general, it is not clear what their purpose in our fleet is .. Are the natives driving around the world? How are the Americans?
  19. Maks1995
    Maks1995 April 29 2020 13: 03 New
    +3
    Thanks, you can say as much as you like, but the result is still one:
    There are no Mistrals.
    There are no UdK either.
    Just laid when they will be real - is unknown. What will be done with them is also unknown. There are no airplanes for them. Helicopters - there is. But not quite for them, but right next door.

    Much stronger I would like to say thanks to our similar and really deserving ones, but from the start something like these will not be remembered ...
    1. Kronos
      Kronos April 29 2020 13: 43 New
      +2
      It’s like Zhvanetsky’s excellent Konstantin
  20. Palmyra
    Palmyra April 29 2020 13: 18 New
    0
    Well, why, now for Cairo, these helicopter carriers keep watch in the Sinai and scare the barmaley away. There will be no helicopter carriers, they will again be nightmare. Yes, the country's security is always expensive.
  21. iouris
    iouris April 29 2020 13: 18 New
    0
    Thanks to grandfather Hollande ...
    1. Fan-fan
      Fan-fan April 29 2020 23: 42 New
      -1
      Thanks to grandfather Hollande ...

      Thank you should not say Hollande, but the United States and NATO, as the contract with Russia was terminated by Paris under unprecedented pressure from Washington and from NATO.
      And we need to say special thanks to Poland, as Poland threatened France to interrupt negotiations on a deal to buy 50 Caracal helicopters worth € 2,5 billion in case of transfer of helicopter carriers to Russia.
  22. Aleksandr21
    Aleksandr21 April 29 2020 13: 49 New
    0
    Two helicopter carriers with a declared displacement of 23 thousand tons each were planted at the Zaliv Kerch plant.


    Странное заявление, про "заложены" , пока в СМИ только встречается про готовность к закладке в мае, и вчера читал статью Александра Тимохина на Взгляде с планируемой датой закладки 28 апреля но подтверждений никаких на сегодня нет. Остаётся надеяться что в мае всё таки будут заложены два УДК и начнётся строительство.
  23. BAI
    BAI April 29 2020 21: 28 New
    +2
    it is worth saying to Mr. Hollande thanks for the "Mistral"

    Hollande has nothing to do with it. Thank you need to say Obama. And Obama has a lot of achievements. One revival of Russian agriculture is worth it.
  24. kutuz
    kutuz April 30 2020 10: 51 New
    +1
    "в ближайшие годы и появятся" - лет 20-30, может быть! В чём радость?
  25. ccsr
    ccsr April 30 2020 11: 06 New
    0
    Author:
    Alexei Volodin
    It turns out that we really should say to Mr. Hollande thanks for the “Mistral” -

    Действительно нам надо только радоваться, что Олланд нас уберег от этой сделки, а иначе мы бы имели геморрой с этими кораблями на многие годы вперед. Интересно, узнаем ли мы когда-нибудь авторов идеи закупки Мистралей у Франции - страна должна знать своих "героев" в лицо, чтобы потом им высказать при случае, что нормальные военные думают об их дури.
  26. gromovanton
    gromovanton April 30 2020 15: 53 New
    -1
    For a gift, these UDCs are not needed by our fleet, especially foreign ones. Invest huge money to get a barge capable of delivering a regiment of marines and 12 helicopters to the combat zone and even against some kind of semi-partisan formations .... If expeditionary forces already had landed in islands, for example, the Kuril ridge, The air defense to send these UDC there is simply to send the whole landing to death without any use for solving combat missions. Outside the brackets is the question of how the UDC will be there and who and how it will cover on the extension routes.
    When some authors write that this is also a hospital and an entire staff ship, a simple question arises for them: what is it without UDC that our fleet is without control? Or in the event of the beginning of hostilities at sea that no one plans to save the sailors? It seems to be simple, obvious questions, but they persistently uphold the need for these Mistrals.
    The order was made at French shipyards for purely political reasons to drag France to their side. (Otherwise, it is necessary to assume acts punishable according to the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation)
    You might think that in our fleet we don’t need to build any other ships and that’s all, only the UDC is not enough. The fact that they began to build them, in my opinion, to an absolutely uninitiated and unprofessional opinion, does not mean that the Navy needs them as a region, but simply an opportunity to load the enterprise with work and give people work in the Crimea, where industry has been cut off twice, and the territory needs to be developed ...
    1. gromovanton
      gromovanton April 30 2020 16: 10 New
      0
      Sealed not 12 helicopters, but 16
  27. Olegi1
    Olegi1 April 30 2020 23: 39 New
    0
    Quote: Doccor18
    There is a contradictory feeling.
    On the one hand, they are not particularly needed.
    On the other hand, what’s bad if the Navy had the opportunity to transfer the MP battalion to the Pacific Fleet or Black Sea Fleet.
    Of course, you need to build yourself,
    but so far no.


    To Pacific Fleet with Black Sea Fleet or vice versa? Can you imagine how many things the MP battalion will do in case of a conflict, getting a month or more to a probable theater? And what tidbit will this tin can be all along its path? Even with cover? Want to repeat Tsushima?
  28. Serpet
    Serpet 1 May 2020 16: 14 New
    -10
    But now we’ll build our own. True for a long time.
  29. Arthur 85
    Arthur 85 1 May 2020 17: 27 New
    +1
    Of course, our shipbuilders need orders. Whether it is UDC, cruisers or destroyers. We will not soon have a balanced fleet, but for now the main thing is to maintain the competence of both sailors and shipbuilders.
  30. The comment was deleted.
  31. Cypa
    Cypa 6 May 2020 08: 42 New
    0
    yes yes thanks for throwing lemons