Military Review

Ancient Crete and Greece: women figurines and warriors in red cloaks

274

Another picture from the textbook stories The ancient world for grade 5. It is very well shown that, although many of those present on the agora dressed up in white, there are at least as many colored clothes. That is, the crowd of the ancient Greeks cannot be imagined in the form of people draped in white cloaks


... and take off the linen clothes that he put on when entering the sanctuary ...
Leviticus 16:23


Culture of clothes. Last time we talked about the clothes of ancient Egypt. It turned out that there were no special clothes: both kings and slaves wore skirts, differing only in the quality of the fabric. And very similar clothes were in Crete. But only for men. Women's fashion Cretans was very original and so to the end and not understood. On the frescoes and statuettes you see women dressed in a strange outfit that has never been seen before: a skirt to the floor, which apparently consisted of several skirts worn one on top of another, a short, sophisticated apron, a short-sleeved vest laced on the stomach . The chest is bare. Complex hairstyles adorn the heads of intricately dressed Cretans, some wearing tiaras on their heads. But the clothes of the athletes, whom we see on the frescoes depicting games with a bull, are very simple: all the same loincloth and nothing on top.

Ancient Crete and Greece: women figurines and warriors in red cloaks

The famous Cretan "Goddess with snakes." Height 34,3 cm. Faience. OK. 1600 BC Figurine from the Archaeological Museum in Heraklion

Archaeological finds suggest that Cretans and Cretans loved jewelry and knew how to make it. Gold was used, but also colored glass beads and pendants were also in use. And the Cretans adored perfumes, all kinds of aromatic essences and rubbing, as evidenced by glass vessels for cosmetics found in Crete and neighboring Cyprus.


Gold beads, earrings, pendants, ring and bracelets made of gold and glass. Archaeological Museum of Heraklion


Curled up cats. Archaeological Museum of Heraklion


Fine suspension of very fine workmanship. Archaeological Museum of Heraklion

Well, then the Dorians came and spoiled all this beautiful fashion. The era of continental Greece came, where the mods were already completely different. First of all, it was associated with the tissues used. The main fabric of the Greeks was wool, and only then linen was on. Silk and cotton came to Greece only from the East. The Greeks loved ornamented fabrics, but only primitive ornaments were woven: palmettes, meander, “beads”, “traveling wave”. The fabric was usually dyed. In the course were ocher colors of various shades, red, blue, brown. The purple dye obtained from the purple sinks was very expensive. White clothes were also decorated, usually with an embroidered border.


Neocles, ruler of Gorgippi. The original in the museum. Pushkin, and this copy at the place of the find is in the museum of Anapa, under which the ancient Gorgippia lies. Dressed, as befits the ancient Greek, moreover, to a free and unburdened person. And the hairstyle is also appropriate ...

The clothes themselves were very simple. The bottom garment was a tunic of a piece of cloth folded in half with a hole for the head. Threw it, belted it, and you are dressed. It could be a tunic made of two pieces of fabric. Then he was fastened to his shoulders with brooches. Sleeves, if any, are short. Exonomy chiton was short, to the middle of the hips, and was the clothing of warriors, artisans and slaves. Most often they fastened it only on one shoulder, on the left. Everything is so simple that you don’t need to show anything, but we will look at such clothes as a gimatiy in more detail, and ancient Greek ceramics will help us with this.


Boy leaning on a stick. Dressed in Hymatium. Terracotta fragment of cilic. The second quarter of the XNUMXth century BC e. Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York

A free Greek wrapped himself in a hymatium (a woolen cloak over four meters long) when he went outside. Ordinary citizens were wrapped so that at least one hand was left free, but philosophers and speakers hid both hands under it: they say, we do not get our own bread with our hands! They taught us how to wear a hymatium from childhood, because it was not easy to wind it beautifully, although wealthy citizens helped slaves to dress.


A young man and a man dressed in a himatia. Kilik, approx. 480-470 BC


The same kilik. Side surface. Obviously, athletes and their mentors are depicted here.


To get such beautiful folds, pieces of lead were sewn into the fabric. Terracotta fragment of kilik, 490–480 BC Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York

The clammy cloak was worn by riders. The ends were fastened with his brooch on the right shoulder. Shoes could be very simple (ipodimati sandals, consisting of a sole and straps attached to it) and very complex and rich: such, for example, were boots with open toes (endromids), with beautiful lacing in the front and leather shafts in the back. The skin could be gilded, and even embroidered with pearls.


Ankle with sandal, terracotta. Southern Italy, second half of the XNUMXth century BC. Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York

Now about the hairstyles. In fashion, the Greeks had moderate beard in men, smooth cheeks in young men, and blond was considered the most beautiful hair color. The Spartans wore long hair that was carefully combed. Hats were worn, but rarely. Mostly traveling. Then they put on felt hats. Again, the Spartans wore high hats - pili, in the form of which their soldiers then appeared a helmet. These helmets became the same symbol of Lacedaemon as the blood-red tunic - exomis, which the Spartans began to wear over time, abandoning the armor for the torso and thighs that had previously been used, as well as bronze fingertips on the legs. And the Spartans noted in history with their red cloaks, they were often called so: warriors in blood-red cloaks. But mobility and training turned out to be more significant for them than individual protection. Helmets and shields - they considered it sufficient!


A shot from the film "Z00 Spartans" 1962. The film is somewhat fabulous, but the costumes in it are shown very true


Terracotta red-figure crater (vessel for mixing wine and water), approx. 430 BC On it riders in cloaks-chlamis and endromid boots

As for women, their underwear was a tunic, also cleaved by brooches on the shoulders and draped around the body. Fabric - wool or linen. Colors are very different. Dorian tunes were wide. Ionian - narrow. Girls girdled him on a belt, married women under a breast. At the same time, both those and others could wear it with a fling, straightening it through the belt. The tunic could be decorated with embroidery and ornaments on the bottom and the edge, and yet it was indecent to leave the house in it. Peplos was worn over the tunic outside the house. The peplos fabric was 1,5 m wide and 3-4 m long. Again, its color could be very different, but the purple fabric, from blue to dark purple, was the most expensive. They wore raincoats similar to men's, as well as light gas calipt scarves. The shoes were similar to men's and had no heels.


A woman with ojohoya (dr. Greek “jug for wine” - an ancient Greek jug with one handle and a round or trefoil whisk resembling a clover leaf) in a tunic with a lap. Red figure lekif. Attica. Around 420 BC National Archaeological Museum of Athens


Woman juggling balls. Red-figured lekif, 2nd quarter of the XNUMXth century BC e. Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York

Like men, it was blond, especially “golden”, hair that was considered the most beautiful. They were pulled into a knot at the nape of the neck - corymbos, or, on the contrary, was lowered onto the forehead so that it was not high (two fingers, no more!), And curls were lowered onto the shoulders.


Woman with curled hair. Scythos (an ancient Greek ceramic drinking bowl on a low leg with two horizontally located handles) from Tanagra. The end of the XNUMXth century BC e. National Archaeological Museum of Athens


Terracotta head of a woman, Tarent, late XNUMXth century BC e. Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York

And, of course, Greek women wore many jewelry and did not spare cosmetics. They whitened and blushed their faces, made eyebrows, painted eyelashes, applied eye shadow, tinted their lips with berry juice mixed with fat. And even perfumes choked even clothes. Moreover, perfumes were stored in elegant ceramic vessels - lekifs, often genuine works of art. Today they adorn the expositions of the most famous museums in the world, and then they were in almost every house of a free Greek woman. There were also fashionable parasols from the sun (not folding!) And fans in the form of a tree leaf. Of the jewelry itself, gold bracelets on the forearm in the form of a curled snake, often with rubies in the eyes, were popular.


Western pediment of the temple of Athens from the island of Aegina. Five central figures (so-called aeginets). The figure of Athena Pallas, dressed in peplos with a cape on his shoulders, 505-500. BC. The figures were discovered in 1811, and in 1813 purchased by Ludwig I of Bavaria for the Glyptothek in Munich


Reconstruction of the western pediment

Nevertheless, despite the abundance of jewelry, the costume of the Greek woman was always visually very simple and did not contain any excesses.

To be continued ...
Author:
Articles from this series:
Bull skin and wooden slippers: clothes of hunters and warriors of the Stone Age
Ancient Egypt: clothing of the pharaohs, warriors, peasants
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  1. tlauicol
    tlauicol 1 May 2020 05: 24 New
    +8
    Compared to Crete, the Greeks dressed like homeless people, hmm. And the Minoans from which they sewed outfits? material needed

    and this is from our textbooks for the 5th grade. struck into memory
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 1 May 2020 05: 41 New
      14
      Vyacheslav Olegovich respect and respect for the excursion into the history of fashion of the ancient world of Hellas !!!
      I hope "quarantine to help" advanced forum users will catch up to complement, clarify and tweak!
      Good day to everyone, Kote!
    2. kalibr
      1 May 2020 07: 45 New
      +7
      Quote: Tlauicol
      material needed

      The same wool and linen. Materials of the Mediterranean. China and silk weren’t reached yet ...
      1. AllBiBek
        AllBiBek 1 May 2020 13: 09 New
        +1
        At the time of the voice-aunted aunts in Crete - flax is still imported, but in the same Egypt - it is a luxury item, and a monetary unit.

        So only wool, and how not to mess with it - it is prickly, and the longer you wear it - the more it pricks.

        They learned to grow flax on the islands very late, already in the Early Iron.
    3. Bar1
      Bar1 1 May 2020 09: 10 New
      -2


      the Greeks stand in their tunics, but some Greek in a stylish hat, such as a Dacian and in trousers, is with a whip, apparently the guard of this diet.

      It is impossible to work in such clothes that the Greeks wore. For work, you need to have clothes that are adjacent to the body and certainly not long. All these sheets around the body most likely performed one function, the same as modern sheets after the bath, they went out wet, wrapped themselves in sheet and sit dry.
      Or all of those gathered in this way demonstrate neglect of work, as, say, the Russian boyars wore sleeves to the floor i.e. demonstration that labor is not known to this estate.
      We noticed that the self-name of the Greeks was Hellenes, but the name Greece came from Italy, there was "Great Greece".
      map of Nikola Sanson 17th century Great Greece in Italy surrounded by Russian / red names



      1. BAI
        BAI 1 May 2020 11: 53 New
        +6
        the Greeks stand in their tunics, but some Greek in a stylish hat, such as a Dacian and in trousers, is with a whip, apparently the guard of this diet.

        A comment on the picture in the textbook said that this special overseer drives the slave away. This is some kind of government meeting - deputies vote, and slaves were forbidden to be there.
      2. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 1 May 2020 12: 56 New
        +9
        Quote: Bar1
        Great Greece in Italy surrounded by Russian / red names

        It is high time for Europe to return to its true owners - the red stardom-bardaria then universal prosperity and a golden age will come - every citizen will have the right to vote in elections, his own home, a prosperous family, a horse, at least five slaves and three concubines. laughing
        1. Hantengri
          Hantengri 1 May 2020 13: 12 New
          +7
          Quote: Trilobite Master
          three concubines

          It's too much. He doesn't like boobs.
          1. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 1 May 2020 13: 17 New
            +9
            Concubines - necessary. We highlight the bar specially selected - flat. laughing
        2. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 1 May 2020 15: 06 New
          +7
          red bardaria

          As a kolyan with red beard, I authoritatively put forward a demand - at least ten concubines! stop Plus fifteen kilograms of kitty cat per month. And a silk robe without holes!fellow Otherwise, let them leave to us - to us, bearded carriages, then this is not a gift for nothing!hi
          1. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 1 May 2020 15: 29 New
            +8
            Quote: Pane Kohanku
            fifteen kilograms of kitty cat

            Greenpeace is on you, strollers, no. Well, you need to come up with this - fill cats! If you need so many concubines just for this - take three flat from Bar - he still does not need. But nothing else - the rest of their unlikely to give up.
            As for the dressing gown, it’s not clear at all. How will you fit into it without holes? This is not a straitjacket ... Or are you, a joker, preparing it for the concubines?
            In any case, we don’t have another carriage with red beard, and without such a bright copy - even to the exhibition! - Who will believe that we have democracy and a golden age? Probably have to agree ... But there are only six concubines anyway - three ordinary and three flat. We’ll not get more until then, and there it will be seen, maybe someone who seems superfluous ...
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 1 May 2020 15: 44 New
              +8
              If you need so many concubines just for this - take three flat from Bar - he still does not need.

              Are you trying to give me a dubious second-hand promotion? am
              Flat ... The main thing was that the priest was beautiful, and her legs too! wink That’s what I don’t trudge from is the size of "siseido". laughing
              Well, you need to come up with this - fill cats!

              he himself can fill any container, if he does not pour filler! Now we need to go, buy another package ... request
              In any case, we don’t have another carriage with red beard, and without such a bright copy - even to the exhibition! - Who will believe that we have democracy and a golden age?

              You contradict yourself, Michael! what On the one hand, do you want me to be a symbol of the golden Kolyan age at the exhibition, on the other hand, there are only three normal concubines? I do not know. Answer "there are no concubines, but you get out" I do not accept. stop Look for internal reserves! soldier
              1. Trilobite Master
                Trilobite Master 1 May 2020 15: 50 New
                +8
                Well wait a bit. Now, at first it’s six. Then everything settles down, it will be seen. I think we’ll even find eleven or twelve. With priests and back and front, whatever. In the period of democracy, small sacrifices must be made. Well, for the sake of the golden age, huh?
                1. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 1 May 2020 16: 02 New
                  +8
                  With priests and back and front, whatever.

                  Front ?? belay I somehow never took a great interest in the "ugly circus" ... No. Although sometimes you look at a selection of our and other "pop stars" with their blown siseidos, half-dead ruins, attached with seated airships, built up and smeared with everything that is not lazy - and this is precisely the word that suggests itself. what By the way, you can promote a fashion trend - "ass in front"! This is the only place that has not yet been attached! fellow
                  In the period of democracy, small sacrifices must be made. Well, for the sake of the golden age, huh?

                  No, the image of Pavka Korchagin does not bribe me! Will not work! stop
                  reminded:
                  “I know about your hopes!” It’s your fault that France has fought for ten years in a row, now you want a war for another fifteen years ... If the peace treaties are not respected in London, we will cover them with a black fleur. Malta or war, ambassador?
                  “My king cherishes the good of the world too much.”
                  “I am not asking you this ... MALTA or WAR?”

                  (V.S.Pikul, "To Each His Own") drinks
                  Ten concubines and two new robes! Or there will be no golden age! stop
                  1. Trilobite Master
                    Trilobite Master 1 May 2020 16: 14 New
                    +8
                    What a finicky one!
                    Everything, democracy was covered! There will be no golden age. All the concubines will be taken apart by the Semites and other nonchristians, a silk dressing gown without holes will be dusted up in the storerooms of the Hermitage, which nobody needs, and slaves from idleness and grief that they have no masters will succumb and cry, which can cause another flood and other environmental disasters.
                    And all because some women didn’t have enough. Oh, people .... recourse
                    Went to sob.
                    1. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 1 May 2020 16: 25 New
                      +5
                      Anna loved rich guys.
                      Anna is not a whore - Anna is a Jew.
                  2. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 1 May 2020 18: 57 New
                    +3
                    How little a person needs to be happy ...
                    And I dreamed of seeing Mars ...
                2. Catfish
                  Catfish 1 May 2020 18: 17 New
                  +7
                  With priests and back and front, whatever.

                  This is Baru, please.
          2. Hantengri
            Hantengri 1 May 2020 16: 24 New
            +6
            Quote: Pane Kohanku
            Plus fifteen kilograms of kitty cat per month. And a silk robe without holes!

            And also a real saber, a drum and a bulldog puppy! laughing
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 1 May 2020 21: 22 New
              +3
              And also a real saber, a drum and a bulldog puppy!

              Igor, I remember this joke! wink do not expect! Here the bet is more - the golden age! drinks
              1. Hantengri
                Hantengri 1 May 2020 21: 56 New
                +5
                Quote: Pane Kohanku
                Igor, I remember this joke! do not expect! Here the bet is more - the golden age!

                This is not an anecdote. It's from Tom Sawyer. And, in general, what a golden age without a true saber and a bulldog puppy !?laughing drinks
                1. Clerk
                  Clerk 7 May 2020 22: 42 New
                  +2
                  Quote: HanTengri
                  And, in general, what is the golden age without a real saber and a bulldog puppy!? Laughing

                  The Jacuzzi has been forgotten ... and the piano! "What a life without a piano!"
        3. Xnumx vis
          Xnumx vis 1 May 2020 22: 15 New
          +5
          Quote: Trilobite Master
          Quote: Bar1
          Great Greece in Italy surrounded by Russian / red names

          It is high time for Europe to return to its true owners - the red stardom-bardaria then universal prosperity and a golden age will come - every citizen will have the right to vote in elections, his own home, a prosperous family, a horse, at least five slaves and three concubines. laughing

          wassat It will be not enough !!! am
      3. Kronos
        Kronos 1 May 2020 17: 56 New
        +4
        The bar as usual exposed everyone
      4. Sergey Sfiedu
        Sergey Sfiedu 1 May 2020 21: 21 New
        +3
        "some sort of Greek in a stylish hat, such as a Dak one and in trousers, stands with a whip, apparently the guard of this diet." This is not a Greek. Scythian slaves were used as guards (police). It was believed that the work of a guard was humiliating for a free Hellene ..
      5. Simargl
        Simargl 3 May 2020 03: 45 New
        -1
        Quote: Bar1
        Russian boyars wore sleeves to the floor i.e. demonstration that labor is not known to this estate.
        Did you take it out of the USSR? Boyars went about their business.
        But what about the fact that the peasants also wore long-sleeved clothes? Proverbs and sayings are reflected.
        Look at the clothes of the highlanders of the Caucasus - also a long sleeve ...
        The boyars wore a sleeve to the floor (longer than usual) - to show the same boyars that overdofig dough.
  2. Pessimist22
    Pessimist22 1 May 2020 05: 54 New
    +8
    The pottery is beautiful.
    1. cost
      cost 1 May 2020 15: 22 New
      +7
      Ancient Crete warriors in red cloaks

      Vyacheslav hi
      The Minoan warriors in red cloaks did not seem to go.
      Their distinctive sign were tayros (ταύρος ασπίδα) - cow-skinned shields "so-called" bull shields "as Homer wrote about, σταυρό μοτίβο (white clothes with a cruciform ornament) and labrys double-sided axes - axes according to Herodotus
      Photo 1 fragment of the Minoan vessel. Heraklion Museum

      Photo 2 fragment of the Minoan vase. Heraklion Museum

      Photo 3 Labrys. Battle ax. Cretan Minoan civilization. Heraklion Museum


      Photo 3 Labrys. Minoan Labris. Heraclion Museum. Modern replica
      1. cost
        cost 1 May 2020 15: 40 New
        +7
        modern reconstruction of the warriors of Crete




        1. cost
          cost 1 May 2020 15: 43 New
          +7
          To be continued. modern reconstruction of the warriors of Crete




          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 1 May 2020 15: 47 New
            +7
            To be continued. modern reconstruction of the warriors of Crete

            Dmitry, here with the second picture the discussion of charms began ... Vyacheslav Olegovich published it! drinks
            1. cost
              cost 1 May 2020 15: 53 New
              +5
              Greetings, Nikolay. Happy holiday drinks
              The Cretan warriors since childhood from the book of Ivan Efremov "On the edge of the Oikumene" struck me by their custom of decorating their helmets with horns and their crosses on their clothes. A sort of ancient forerunner of the later Vikings and Crusaders
              1. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 1 May 2020 16: 05 New
                +5
                Greetings, Nikolay. Happy holiday

                Dmitry, and all of you - Happy Holiday! Peace-work-may, and a little wine / gin / calvados - for the mood! drinks
                1. cost
                  cost 1 May 2020 18: 08 New
                  +6
                  Heraklion Museum. Cretan Minoan era clothing department
                  Artifacts (The oldest is 2600 BC)




                  1. cost
                    cost 1 May 2020 18: 09 New
                    +6
                    modern drawing in the hall
                    1. cost
                      cost 1 May 2020 18: 11 New
                      +7
                      Modern reconstructions of wax mannequin clothes




                      1. cost
                        cost 1 May 2020 18: 13 New
                        +8
                        Modern reconstructions of wax mannequin clothes. Continuation



                      2. cost
                        cost 1 May 2020 18: 14 New
                        +8
                        Modern reconstructions of clothes on wax mannequins. Continuation



              2. cost
                cost 1 May 2020 19: 01 New
                +5
                Dmitry, and all of you - Happy Holiday! Peace-work-may, and a little wine / gin / calvados - for the mood! drinks

                Yes, it’s kind of like at a table. The matchmakers have arrived. We are celebrating. We drink and eat medicine wink
                All members of the forum on the occasion of your health drinks
            2. Catfish
              Catfish 1 May 2020 18: 32 New
              +6
              Well, they could not decorate with horns themselves. wink
              1. cost
                cost 1 May 2020 18: 38 New
                +6
                from the series -he sailor, you sailed too long laughing
                Given that Crete was a maritime power, such a hypothesis is the case wink
            3. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 3 May 2020 01: 26 New
              +2
              Well, if you recall the name of Alexander of Macedon: Iskander the Two-Horned.
              His helmet was with horns. And the Carthaginians also loved the horns.
              1. cost
                cost 3 May 2020 01: 36 New
                +3
                I welcome Alex hi The cult of the bull reigned in Crete. Hence their "love" for horns. And Iskander had a helmet with ram's horns - in honor of a deity named Kriy.
        2. awdrgy
          awdrgy 1 May 2020 20: 33 New
          0
          A gang from the post-apocalyptic world Dalniy stupidly imprisoned a piece of iron removed from some kind of construction)))
    2. AllBiBek
      AllBiBek 2 May 2020 09: 42 New
      0
      Could not help walking.

      There, the most affordable version of the dye is boiled lichen (boiled for a long time), it gives a color about the "send comment" button.
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 1 May 2020 06: 05 New
    15
    amazing, mysterious, peculiar civilization.
    The Cretans' women's fashion was very original, the outfit: a skirt to the floor, which apparently consisted of several skirts, worn one on top of another, a short, sophisticated apron shape, a vest with short sleeves, laced on the stomach. The chest is bare.

    I categorically welcome this youth fashion yes
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 1 May 2020 06: 15 New
      11
      Quote: Olgovich
      The chest is bare.

      Good morning, May Day! Andrei, don’t you think that we have a slightly different fashion direction?
      * ... barefoot in the cold
      I went to my dear ... * laughing
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 1 May 2020 06: 28 New
        +5
        Quote: Phil77
        Good morning, May Day! Andrew!

        Happy holiday, Sergey! hi
        Quote: Phil77
        Do you think that we have a slightly different fashion direction?
        * ... barefoot in the cold
        I went to my dear ...

        And this-also welcome yes
      2. kalibr
        1 May 2020 07: 44 New
        13
        I knew that the Minoan women's fashion will cause a seething of passions ....
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 1 May 2020 07: 54 New
          +8
          Vyacheslav Olegovich! The simmering of passions is caused by articles about the civil war, and this is a sweet coo on a pleasant topic about women!
          1. kalibr
            1 May 2020 07: 57 New
            +7
            Quote: Phil77
            Raging passions cause articles about the civil war

            Ha! It is noticed correctly! But now, instead of this article, I posted an article on Penza medicine in 1963 for moderation. Here it comes out ... and that's where the civil war will be!
        2. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 1 May 2020 08: 12 New
          +7
          Ottozh, Vyacheslav Olegovich! Well, it's like bringing Hustler to school! As children, honestly, they never saw her mammary glands. laughing
          Thank you for the article!
          1. kalibr
            1 May 2020 08: 17 New
            +9
            Anton, when I was a student 72-77, it was like this: someone brought a Playboy and we five of us watched it in a men's toilet. And ... then they called in the KGB and asked ... how did you guys, future teachers, come to such a life. They scolded, asked who tells us anti-Soviet jokes, and released. I'm still wondering - how did you find out?
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 1 May 2020 08: 23 New
              +8
              Who brought, he knocked. The most elementary provocative method.
              1. kalibr
                1 May 2020 08: 25 New
                +4
                I know that man ... He could not ...
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 1 May 2020 08: 29 New
                  +8
                  I don’t know then. But your company was lucky that the informer was from the "five", and not from the university committee of the Komsomol.
            2. Clerk
              Clerk 7 May 2020 22: 52 New
              +2
              Just like in a joke:
              "An American, a Frenchman and a Russian argued - who is the bravest?
              “We Americans are casting ten cars by lot, and
              one of them has no brakes, and we rush along a mountain road ...
              Then one is in the hospital, and the other nine are visiting him.
              - And we are going to France with ten of us, we are playing
              ten girls, and one of them has syphilis ... Then one
              go to the hospital, and the remaining nine visit him.
              - And in our Union it’s even worse: we tell in the company
              political jokes, and we all know that one of us
              informer.
              - And then?
              - And then nine sit, and one carries them the transmission.
          2. Olgovich
            Olgovich 1 May 2020 10: 59 New
            +5
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            as children, chesslovo, never saw her mammary glands

            belay
            This is you about delicious, exciting, alluring, beautiful. awesome?

            Happy Holiday, Anton! hi

            But ... where is the poetry? recourse

            From an old-old anecdote: "Lieutenant Rzhevsky came and - he vulgarized everything." request hi
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 1 May 2020 16: 53 New
              +2
              And you with a holiday, Andrew!
              I understand that I admire women in general, not exchanging money for tsytsky-petski.
          3. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 1 May 2020 13: 14 New
            +9
            Instead of Playboys and Hustlers, I was dragging to the school the criminal code of the RSFSR. Among other things, there were articles from 117 to 121. I can’t imagine where he ended up at our place. 1977 release, as I remember now. And when the teacher lifted me up in the lesson and demanded to read aloud what we read there and relayed to each other at a desk - I read out the disposition of article 117 - rape, 118 - coercion, 121 - sodomy (yes, there was such a thing in the USSR smile ).
            Only ten or fifteen years later, remembering this incident, I realized into what a stupor I then introduced the teaching staff of the school. Why scold? For studying the criminal code? All the same, they took me to the director. The code was taken away. The parents were called. But somehow it all went quietly, without fanfare. The director did not yell, the classroom did not scold (and she loved to yell), she only said that it was too early for us to read such books, the Frenchwoman, in whose lesson it all happened, blushed and stuttered, but was silent. Nobody said "what the nasty thing you brought." laughing
            Parents also reacted calmly. I made a promise that I won’t carry the code to school anymore and that’s how it ended. smile
            Vyacheslav Olegovich, thanks for the article.
            Colleagues, all with May Day. drinks
            1. Xnumx vis
              Xnumx vis 1 May 2020 22: 33 New
              +3
              Quote: Trilobite Master
              Instead of Playboys and Hustlers, I was dragging to the school the criminal code of the RSFSR. Among other things, there were articles from 117 to 121. I can’t imagine where he ended up at our place. 1977 release, as I remember now.

              A friend's mother was a doctor ... He quietly stole forensic medicine ... We watched the break at school .. Five people ... Eagerly, secretly ... Personally, my drawings caused a gag reflex. I still remember "soft chancre, hard chancre "" stab wounds in a naked female body ... Br ...... But he also assented. Tried to show interest ... But, of course! The boyish collective is a merciless thing ... They are recognized as a mama's son, mumbled, weakling. .. Then a "playboy" appeared ... There was no need to pretend ...
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 2 May 2020 20: 37 New
                +3
                With "Forensic Medicine" (mother is a doctor), everything was similar. A green hardback book, only I didn’t carry it to school, I secretly looked at it with the guys at home. But more interested in weapons, age was still "not for women."
            2. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 3 May 2020 01: 30 New
              +1
              They realized that when you grow up, you plan to be a serious person.
              Like, the prosecutor ... And they decided not to get involved. smile
          4. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 1 May 2020 13: 54 New
            +6
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            Ottozh, Vyacheslav Olegovich! Well, it's like bringing Hustler to school! As children, honestly, they never saw her mammary glands. laughing
            Thank you for the article!

            Someone loves female buttocks, and I love mammary glands. There are not many. hi
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 1 May 2020 17: 00 New
              +4
              Albert! hi
              There are not many
              A. Semenovich will not agree with you. Her bosom broke her sports career.
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 1 May 2020 17: 12 New
                +4
                But with such goodness, she, nevertheless, was not lost)).
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 1 May 2020 17: 49 New
                  +4
                  Not lost. But about sports, all one, yearns. "I remember we were horses too!"
                  1. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 1 May 2020 18: 57 New
                    +3
                    I got it right - they operated on my back laughing
                    1. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 1 May 2020 19: 04 New
                      +4
                      It's easier for you, you're in the subject. You know where and what problems will be addressed. And I will die with two vertebral hernias. Hope from orgasm.
                      1. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 1 May 2020 19: 08 New
                        +3
                        If they do not require surgery now, then yes - being at the epicenter of a nuclear explosion, 90 years on a beautiful woman))
                      2. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 1 May 2020 19: 13 New
                        +5
                        Well, something like this! laughing
                    2. Liam
                      Liam 1 May 2020 19: 17 New
                      +4
                      Quote: 3x3zsave
                      from orgasm

                      Intellectual)
                    3. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 1 May 2020 19: 30 New
                      +7
                      Yes, if only so! Relations between the sexes are not limited to reciprocating movements. Besides the fact that a woman had between her legs, I was always interested in what was between her ears.
                    4. Liam
                      Liam 1 May 2020 19: 41 New
                      +4
                      I have the same opinion)
                    5. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 1 May 2020 21: 27 New
                      +3
                      Mdaa. Our opinions are often identical, only for some reason you are in the rearguard. Pradox, unknowable to me.
                    6. cost
                      cost 1 May 2020 22: 38 New
                      +2
                      Thanks to the author. Good article for the holiday. And comments - so straight-colored May Day fireworks yes
                2. Catfish
                  Catfish 2 May 2020 20: 39 New
                  +2
                  Just a blowjob? wassat
            2. Catfish
              Catfish 2 May 2020 20: 43 New
              +2
              Hope from orgasm.

              How is General Skobelev? Oh, dreams ... drinks
        3. Catfish
          Catfish 2 May 2020 20: 41 New
          +1
          "Esaul, why did you leave the horse!"
    2. Catfish
      Catfish 2 May 2020 20: 38 New
      0
      She doesn’t have “big chest,” she has big mouth. laughing
  • voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 3 May 2020 01: 33 New
    +2
    "Someone loves women's buttocks, but I love the mammary glands." ///

    Most of all, I personally love another beautiful female organ. Let's not him
    call out loud.
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 3 May 2020 02: 07 New
      +1
      Eyes? )))
      Probably eyes
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 1 May 2020 08: 23 New
    +7
    Quote: kalibr
    I knew that the Minoan women's fashion will cause a seething of passions ...

    So outrageous!

    The ancients have, but us ... no! request

    And this is progress ?! belay
  • BAI
    BAI 1 May 2020 11: 56 New
    +3
    At VO there was a series of articles about the marine peoples of the Mediterranean. There, women were portrayed just like that.
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 1 May 2020 14: 01 New
      +5
      So the peoples of the sea, with whom the pharaohs still fought, are considered immigrants from Crete. The most famous were the Philistines (Plishtim, i.e., invading Hebrew), who founded Gaza, Ashdod and Ashkelon. That is why in the last two cities the Gaza Strip group is so popular, as well as the composition of Alexander Laertsky, describing the taste of the mammary glands in the test fellow
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 1 May 2020 15: 25 New
    +6
    I knew that the Minoan women's fashion will cause a seething of passions ....

    It all started with a picture of Gorelik about Crete, which you launched in the first article about this civilization. yes We cannot forget those "Siseido", Vyacheslav Olegovich! request It’s painfully good. Gorelik tried with size and shape! good (said to Pan Kohanku, and licked his lips like the Emperor Bokassa on "sugar pork") laughing
  • Catfish
    Catfish 1 May 2020 06: 26 New
    10
    M-yes, Andrey ... To whom ceramics, and to whom naked Persians ... smile But I support you. good
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 1 May 2020 06: 34 New
      +8
      Quote: Sea Cat
      Naked Persians ...

      Good morning Konstantin!
      Here comes Vera-Astra and declares:
      -Others invented, oohlniki!
      I’m going to walk in front of all honest people with naked breasts !!! There is no such consent of mine and it can’t be! Ugh for you, males! laughing am
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 1 May 2020 06: 40 New
        11
        Hello Sergey, and good morning and good day to you! drinks
        Will I walk in front of all honest bare-chested people!

        But this thesis can be taken for approval! wink Moreover, many ladies are not at all embarrassed when they have something to show.
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 1 May 2020 06: 42 New
          +6
          Hmm! * I'm not that-I'm waiting for the tram! *
          No.
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 1 May 2020 06: 50 New
            +8
            Remember what trams bring to, especially when a car-respecting woman:

            "Having burst into tears to his heart's content, Koroviev finally detached himself from the wall and said:
            - No, I can't take it anymore! I'll go and take three hundred drops of ethereal valerian! .. - And turning his completely tear-stained face to Poplavsky, he added: - Here they are, trams! crying
        2. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 1 May 2020 07: 32 New
          +7
          Mammologist's nightmare wassat
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 1 May 2020 07: 35 New
            +7
            Hi Anton, you reminded me of a joke about a gynecologist who was tried for the murder of a minor. I can’t bring him here, because the joker is obscene. request
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 1 May 2020 07: 38 New
              +9
              "There are many things in the world, friend Horatio,
              What our antenatal clinic never dreamed of "(C)
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 1 May 2020 07: 53 New
                12
                "There are many things in the world, friend Horatio, that will be banned in the Russian Federation ..." laughing
                1. Phil77
                  Phil77 1 May 2020 08: 01 New
                  +5
                  So after all, they give out a lot! / Caution-SARKAZM! / One electronic pass worth what !!!! And the masks? And the masks at your own expense. laughing
                2. Golovan Jack
                  Golovan Jack 1 May 2020 08: 18 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Sea Cat
                  "There are many things in the world, friend Horatio, that will be banned in the Russian Federation ..." laughing

                  Damn, how much I live - did not hear. Pylus, do not frown wink

                  With the holiday of spring, and, once labor ... laughing
            2. Phil77
              Phil77 1 May 2020 07: 46 New
              +6
              * -If all women undress in front of you at the first meeting. This does not mean that you are the coolest macho. It is possible that you are an old, bald, nondescript gynecologist from the district women's consultation. *
              Well, this one is clearly not that! No mat.
              Oh! How did the sappers succeed:
              - * Verified. No mat! *
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 1 May 2020 08: 03 New
                +8
                With sappers, everything is clear.

                The guys also like to joke. soldier
                1. Phil77
                  Phil77 1 May 2020 08: 16 New
                  +6
                  * Minesweeper will always do his job! Even if he made a mistake, he did mine anyway. *
            3. cost
              cost 1 May 2020 18: 54 New
              +4
              recalled a joke about a gynecologist who was tried for the murder of a minor. I can’t bring him here, for the anecdotal obscene request

              This is not the same anecdote about an obstetrician, where he delivered three shifts in a row, was tired like a dog, went out to the park to smoke - and then a youngster sat down with him: "Uncle, if you want me for 3 rubles, I'll show you something?" wink
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 1 May 2020 19: 12 New
                +4
                He is laughing .
                The last word of the defendant.
        3. Free wind
          Free wind 1 May 2020 08: 13 New
          +4
          Yes, damn it, remove the boobs so cute
      2. Olgovich
        Olgovich 1 May 2020 06: 55 New
        +6
        Quote: Phil77
        -Others invented, oohlniki!

        A dream? winked
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 1 May 2020 07: 18 New
          +6
          In a strict police / policeman / voice:
          "Citizen! Dream in a specially designated place for this, go to the planetarium, for example. Ah, yes, quarantine! Well, continue. what
      3. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 1 May 2020 15: 21 New
        +4
        -Others invented, oohlniki!

        Sergey, then we will be forced to return to the eternal dispute about one item of women's underwear ... request drinks "Malta or War, Ambassador?" (Napoleon Bonaparte - Charles Whitworth). In terms of, "count or ..." laughing
    2. Olgovich
      Olgovich 1 May 2020 06: 39 New
      +6
      Quote: Sea Cat
      M-yes, Andrey ... To whom ceramics, and to whom naked Persians ..


      Look wider, Konstantin: to me и ceramics, и- amazing fashion! good
      Quote: Sea Cat
      But I support you.

      Duck is beautiful! yes purely for aesthetic reasons! yes
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 1 May 2020 06: 51 New
        +8
        So I do not argue, but quite the contrary! drinks
  • Phil77
    Phil77 1 May 2020 06: 18 New
    +7
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, thanks for the beautiful article! I look forward to continuing.
  • Catfish
    Catfish 1 May 2020 06: 28 New
    +9
    Happy Spring, friends! love
    Thanks to Vyacheslav for a good article for the holiday. smile
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 1 May 2020 07: 07 New
    +8
    Quote: Olgovich
    amazing, mysterious, peculiar civilization.
    The Cretans' women's fashion was very original, the outfit: a skirt to the floor, which apparently consisted of several skirts, worn one on top of another, a short, sophisticated apron shape, a vest with short sleeves, laced on the stomach. The chest is bare.

    I categorically welcome this youth fashion yes

    Woo ...
    Old age in a beard - a demon in a rib !!! lol
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 1 May 2020 07: 22 New
      +9
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      Woo ...
      Old age in a beard - a demon in a rib !!!

      Woooo! What the printed word is capable of! But this is an article about ancient Greek fashion !!! What will happen next ???? * In the Greek room, in the Greek room ... Kysh! White mouse! *. laughing
      1. kalibr
        1 May 2020 07: 41 New
        +8
        And with the Greeks everything. Enough! Next will be the Germans and mighty Rome ...
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 1 May 2020 07: 50 New
          +6
          Good morning Vyacheslav Olegovich! With Rome it’s more or less clear, but ... What did the Germans wear? Of course, judging by the movie * Gladiator *, where they appeared in animal skins. I wait, wait, wait!
          1. kalibr
            1 May 2020 08: 08 New
            +8
            Well, with Rome too ... better to know than to watch. And about the clothes of the Germans, I have a very interesting book from Germany. That's based on it ...
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 1 May 2020 08: 11 New
              +8
              But in such a question the visual row comes to the forefront!
              1. kalibr
                1 May 2020 08: 26 New
                +9
                Quote: Phil77
                But in such a question the visual row comes to the forefront!

                That I did not think a little!
                1. Phil77
                  Phil77 1 May 2020 08: 28 New
                  +8
                  No, seriously. In the conversation about fashion, about clothes, the image always comes to the fore.
                  1. kalibr
                    1 May 2020 08: 58 New
                    +9
                    Quote: Phil77
                    Seriously.

                    And I'm serious. I didn’t think about it. Thought of a description ...
          2. Olgovich
            Olgovich 1 May 2020 11: 35 New
            +6
            Quote: Phil77
            With Rome, more or less understandable, but ... What did the Germans wear?

            But what's the difference, the Romans, Germans, etc.? request

            The main thing is that the Cretan fashion blues! yes
            1. Hantengri
              Hantengri 1 May 2020 11: 56 New
              +5
              Quote: Olgovich
              But what's the difference, the Romans, Germans, etc.?

              The main thing is that the Cretan fashion blues!

              Ek hooked you! laughing
              It is impossible for the Germans to Cretan fashion. In winter, all the beauty themselves frostbite.
            2. AllBiBek
              AllBiBek 1 May 2020 12: 37 New
              +4
              Then you - to the Mongols, where women have to bare their breasts was established at the legislative level. At least, approaching the camp, no matter whose.

              The answer is simple, at one time it became fashionable to dress in women's clothes with the aim of robbing a neighbor, but here you can immediately see whether she is a woman or not.

              Given the farsightedness of the Mongols, they could admire this from afar, and for a long time.

              They didn’t admire the current. Nomadic tribes have no respect for the female breast; there it is a utilitarian analog of the udder of cattle (which, in fact, is).
          3. AllBiBek
            AllBiBek 1 May 2020 12: 32 New
            +2
            If in a nutshell - pants and kilts (sagum), only the method of dressing was different from the Celtic, the sagum worn rather like a cloak.
    2. Catfish
      Catfish 1 May 2020 07: 41 New
      +7
      "Love for all ages!" smile
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 1 May 2020 08: 00 New
        +5
        Meanwhile, this car will only reach the first right rebuild, because you can’t see the nifig in the right mirror at all!
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 1 May 2020 09: 01 New
          +5
          Quote: 3x3zsave
          Meanwhile, this car will only reach the first right rebuild, because you can’t see the nifig in the right mirror at all!

          Hello Anton! I agree not to get there, but my friend’s reason - on the contrary Everything is visible !!! drinks good
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 1 May 2020 14: 07 New
            +5
            Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka

            Hello Anton! I agree not to get there, but my friend’s reason - on the contrary Everything is visible !!! drinks good

            Greetings! Are you talking about louboutins?
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 1 May 2020 14: 41 New
              +5
              About them dear, although the latter are some low-profile! Apparently the old model !!!
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 1 May 2020 15: 17 New
                +4
                Judging by the hands - and the model is old and they are made in China)).
    3. Olgovich
      Olgovich 1 May 2020 11: 29 New
      +6
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      Old age in beard - demon in the ribs !!!

      Happy Holiday, Vladislav!

      Duc, I shave ...!

      and how old is this time? request recourse
  • Free wind
    Free wind 1 May 2020 07: 54 New
    +7
    Tits are very beautiful !!!!!
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 1 May 2020 08: 11 New
      +6
      Yeah, there is such a thing. good
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 1 May 2020 09: 02 New
        +5
        Eh, I would know who to hit on you, as if I would hit !!!
        laughing
        Just kidding !!! hi
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 1 May 2020 09: 34 New
          +8
          The inscription on the doors of the KGB reception room - "Knock". wink drinks
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 1 May 2020 10: 06 New
            +7
            * The degree of intoxication of the Chekist - left the restaurant and sealed the door behind him. *
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 1 May 2020 10: 31 New
              +7
              The police also commit this sin! My boss on the machine closed us and sealed !!! laughing
              1. Phil77
                Phil77 1 May 2020 10: 34 New
                +6
                How much have you poured into it ????? laughing And then, what happened then?
                1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                  Kote Pan Kokhanka 1 May 2020 11: 46 New
                  +5
                  Not a bit earned !!!
            2. AAK
              AAK 1 May 2020 16: 41 New
              +3
              But the Chekists do not get coronavirus, as they have a cold head, a warm heart and clean hands ... :)))
  • Undecim
    Undecim 1 May 2020 09: 10 New
    11
    Women's fashion Cretans was very original and so to the end and not understood. Chest naked
    In fairness, it should be noted that regarding naked breasts there is a more moderate point of view - that this is the clothes of the goddesses and, accordingly, the ritual clothes of the priestesses, and in casual clothes was more modest.

    Harvesting saffron. Akrotiri. 1600-1500 BC e.
    Obviously, for historians in this case, the choice of version depends on the level of testosterone, which affects objectivity and gives folk historians the opportunity to criticize official historical science.
    1. AllBiBek
      AllBiBek 1 May 2020 11: 59 New
      +5
      No.
      Historians do not swim in periodization, for them - especially for bronzers - two hundred years in a period is not plus / minus, but dofig and more.

      Layered skirts, sophisticated hats, and bare breasts are Minoans. This is a minotaur in the maze, and 12 Achaeans sacrificed to him. These are autochthons that, from the Neolithic in Crete, sailed from the Balkans (and, by the way, they moved the locals, they had Mesolithic there then).

      You have a Mykene vase, it is the Achaeans who won not only the Minoans, but what happened after two hundred years of the Minoans twice won Pelasgians of unknown origin.
  • Bar1
    Bar1 1 May 2020 09: 17 New
    -2
    judging by the comments, the author, with his articles, awakens a low interest from the local public, will moderators not pay attention to this?
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 1 May 2020 09: 31 New
      10
      Quote: Bar1
      judging by the comments, the author, with his articles, awakens a low interest from the local public, will moderators not pay attention to this?

      God !!!! Since when has interest in a woman become low-lying ????? Perhaps on the contrary, when a man is not interested in the opposite sex, that’s exactly what causes a lot of questions ?! bully
      1. Bar1
        Bar1 1 May 2020 09: 36 New
        -9
        Quote: Phil77
        Quote: Bar1
        judging by the comments, the author, with his articles, awakens a low interest from the local public, will moderators not pay attention to this?

        God !!!! Since when has interest in a woman become low-lying ????? Perhaps on the contrary, when a man is not interested in the opposite sex, that’s exactly what causes a lot of questions ?! bully

        on a pornographic site, somewhere, there is a place for such a discussion ...
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 1 May 2020 09: 39 New
          10
          I carefully looked at the illustrations. Attentively! I did not see pornography! Is it wrong? I read without glasses. what
      2. Catfish
        Catfish 1 May 2020 09: 37 New
        12
        Citizen Bar # 1 obviously judges by himself what can you do ... request
        1. Bar1
          Bar1 1 May 2020 09: 39 New
          -7
          Quote: Sea Cat
          Citizen Bar # 1 obviously judges by himself what can you do ... request

          I don’t post scabbard pictures on a historical subject - this is your specialization.
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 1 May 2020 09: 41 New
            17
            Sorry for the directness, but you do not post anything sensible on the historical topic.
          2. Phil77
            Phil77 1 May 2020 09: 59 New
            +9
            Oh, these moralizers! laughing
          3. Hantengri
            Hantengri 1 May 2020 10: 12 New
            +9
            Quote: Bar1
            I don’t post on the historical subject sausage pictures

            These "nasty" pictures are much less pornographic than your "historical" research.
            1. Bar1
              Bar1 1 May 2020 12: 26 New
              -3
              Quote: HanTengri
              Quote: Bar1
              I don’t post on the historical subject sausage pictures

              These "nasty" pictures are much less pornographic than your "historical" research.

              and why did you bounce back from the previous topic on St. George's Day. Have you found to refuse - go over except Srednevsky’s dictionary?
              1. Hantengri
                Hantengri 1 May 2020 12: 54 New
                +5
                Quote: Bar1
                and why did you bounce back from the previous topic on St. George's Day. Have you found to refuse - go over except Srednevsky’s dictionary?

                What for? Give you at least 100000 dictionaries ... you will still find the reason why they do not suit you. Let's do it differently: you will find at least one dictionary of the Old Russian language, in which "refuse" is translated as you want. After all, without this all your "research" is nothing more than a bunch of puddles.
                1. Bar1
                  Bar1 1 May 2020 13: 21 New
                  0
                  Quote: HanTengri
                  Quote: Bar1
                  and why did you bounce back from the previous topic on St. George's Day. Have you found to refuse - go over except Srednevsky’s dictionary?

                  What for? Give you at least 100000 dictionaries ... you will still find the reason why they do not suit you. Let's do it differently: you will find at least one dictionary of the Old Russian language, in which "refuse" is translated as you want. After all, without this all your "research" is nothing more than a bunch of puddles.


                  not for you, but for everyone else
                  Dictionary of living Great Russian language V.I. Dalya

                  REFUSE
                  REFUSE, deny someone what, reject a request, disagree, be unwilling or unable to fulfill someone's desire, not to yield. He flatly refused. If you love, say so, but if you do not love, refuse. | What to whom, to bequeath, to give according to the will, to leave a spiritual inheritance. What did your grandmother refuse you? "The path to the church!" Whom do you deny us, to whom do you leave? keen. If I don’t wear it myself, I’ll refuse you. Refuse what to the church, to the almshouse, to bequeath, to give as a spiritual gift. | What to whom, south. app. answer, confess, say back. And we will refuse you, as it will be fit, old. we will answer, we will give a decent answer, a review. | For whom, to enter into possession, to declare whom, according to the court verdict, the owner of real estate, property. | Someone from what, to remove from office, remove from the case, deprive of maintenance, service, etc. He is denied a job, and is lazy and drunk. Amusing fires, for bad weather, for rain, are denied. If you get married, the pension (currently received) will be refused. The refused wife donsk. old. which was refused by her husband, the wiring, with whom the Cossack, according to the old custom, divorced. -sya, they suffer. and return. within the meaning of. It is unknown to whom the estate will refuse, there are no direct heirs. He refuses everything to our brother. I refuse! says the contractor at the auction, not wanting to continue. I gave up this honor. He abandoned me. He denied that he didn’t know, or that he didn’t want to know ahead and help. If you love, order, but if you do not love, give it up. They refuse to work for him, he does not pay. They do not refuse bread and salt (and the king does not refuse). Refusal Wed lasts. the refusal will end. failure m. about. action by verb. Girlish no - not a refusal. Refusal is not a bum, there will be no bumps on the forehead. Demand is not a sin, refusal is not a problem. Failure is like a long pole. Go to someone for a refusal, unsuccessfully, get a refusal. To whom the order (consent, permission), and we are refused. Denial of ownership for whom, putting into possession. He was refused a seat. | Moose. refusal, refusal sign, abolishing diaz, flat. | In the cart. the game of the trilist, the trump ace is a friend. Rejected and rejected, to rejection in all meanings. related. Failure, failure failure, costs. So reluctant that not listening and so cut off! A reluctant thief, desperate, out of hand. | Rejected noun g. spiritual, testament, generally a letter of refusal, to whom someone refuses, transfers to whom property, or refuses rights, dignity, etc. God does not go to court with a refusal. Refuser, weaner m. Female worker refusing to whom what or what; owner in possession, with a decree about this. Bouncer m. Who refused to whom, in anything; objector m. what, testator. Refugee m. A piece of land, forest, land, denied possession to anyone.


                  So the philologist Dahl does not know, except for refusing, is refusing and refusing is bequeath. But then, why did Izmail Ivanovich Srednevsky add another meaning to this form, and even directly with an example to the chronicle of Sudebnik Ivan3?
                  There are probably a few answers
                  -firstly, Dahl compiled his vocabulary BEFORE Srednevsky and just then there was still no political order.
                  -secondly, probably the Judicial Code of Ivan3 surfaced, as is usual with historians by the beginning of the 20th century and urgently needed to do something with this strange article of the Legal Code, therefore this Ismail Ivanovich turned up.
                  1. Hantengri
                    Hantengri 1 May 2020 14: 36 New
                    +7
                    Quote: Bar1
                    Dictionary of living Great Russian language V.I. Dalya

                    Bravo! You, through titanic efforts, have proved that the word REFUSAL in the 19th century meant the same as now. Now you have only one little thing left - to prove that the word
                    REFUSALS at 15c. had the same meaning as the word REFUSE in the 19th and 21st.
                    1. Trilobite Master
                      Trilobite Master 1 May 2020 15: 44 New
                      +7
                      Quote: HanTengri
                      You, through titanic efforts, have proved that the word REFUSAL in the 19th century meant the same as now.

                      Rather, one of its meanings was the same as now. And others are closer to what was then. But Dahl has too much text there, the whole read is apparently too lazy.
                      It sometimes seems to me that the version that Bar just flew to our planet and just started trying to comprehend the laws of formal logic (so far unsuccessfully) is not so far from the truth. She actually explains a lot.
                    2. Bar1
                      Bar1 1 May 2020 16: 03 New
                      -1
                      Quote: HanTengri
                      You, through titanic efforts, have proved that the word REFUSAL in the 19th century meant the same as now. Now you have only one little thing left - to prove that the word


                      that not. What kind of "titanic" there? All dictionaries are in the net.
                      As for finding correspondence, what reason do you have to say that the words of the 15th and 19th centuries did not coincide with the meanings? Moreover, the rest of the text of the Code of Law does not have any discrepancies with modern words.
                      In general, I am becoming more and more convinced that this forum at the VO, despite the fact that the number of collaborators is off the scale, is a useful thing. This is the second real evidence against OI formed here.
                      1. Hantengri
                        Hantengri 1 May 2020 21: 45 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Bar1
                        As for finding correspondence, what reason do you have to say that the words of the 15th and 19th centuries did not coincide with the meanings?

                        What a sassy! Remember - the approver proves.
                        It’s up to you to argue that REFUSAL, from a 15th-century criminal, is translated into modern Russian as: REFUSING, not how to TRANSFER (as the insidious OI think).
                        So, get rid of cockroaches in your skull’s box, cover yourself with dictionaries on the ancient and old Russian language, turn to the works of professional linguists and prove that it is you who are right.
                        The flag is in your hands!
                      2. Bar1
                        Bar1 1 May 2020 23: 31 New
                        -1
                        Quote: HanTengri
                        What a sassy! Remember - the approver proves.
                        It’s up to you to argue that REFUSAL, from a 15th-century criminal, is translated into modern Russian as: REFUSING, not how to TRANSFER (as the insidious OI think).

                        you are simply ignoramus fool
                        it’s not me who claims so, but Dahl,
                        you don’t know astronomy, you confuse a comet and a star, and now you don’t even look at the dictionary and declare that u have only one value, you can only shake the air on the forum, look for Srednevsky’s beginning,
                      3. Hantengri
                        Hantengri 2 May 2020 00: 57 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Bar1
                        you are simply ignoramus
                        it’s not me who claims so, but Dahl,

                        Yah! Well, show me where it is Dahl (in the 19th century) claims that in the 15th century. the word REFUSALѦ could not have the meaning GO, but only REFUSE!
                        Do not ascribe the opinions of your cockroaches to Dahl.
                        Quote: Bar1
                        astronomy you don't know, confuse the comet and star

                        Of course I am confusing! I'm not an engineer! Why are we so miserable astrophysicists to the heights of engineering astronomy!lol But we even confuse a pulsar with a quasar for sobering, and here we have a solid comet!laughing
                        Can you tell me how engineers, looking at the sky with the naked eye, separate stars from planets? And also, how many times can a normal engineer look at the Sun through a telescope? lol
                        Quote: Bar1
                        do not look at the dictionary and declare that u have only one value to refuse, you can only shake the air on the forum, look for the beginning of Srednevsky,

                        Those. not even a couple of five-year periods have passed, as you have noticed that SREZNEVSKY still has Failure = TRANSIT. And in a criminal case they could have used it in that sense. Commendable! laughing
                      4. Bar1
                        Bar1 2 May 2020 07: 18 New
                        -1
                        Quote: HanTengri
                        Yah! Well, show me where it is Dahl (in the 19th century) claims that in the 15th century. the word REFUSALѦ could not have the meaning GO, but only REFUSE!


                        I brought you a quote from Dahl that it’s not fate to read?

                        Quote: HanTengri
                        Why are we so miserable astrophysicists to the heights of engineering astronomy!


                        you are not an astrophysicist, you are an astrochemist, do not be discouraged, hence all your achievements.

                        as for Deny-pass by Srednevsky, on this occasion I have already spoken out-this is a fake and a late insertion, because more such turns are not found in the text.
                        And even in this form, this proposal does NOT take the form that the OIs offer. The stumbling block is the word issha-move.
    2. Phil77
      Phil77 1 May 2020 10: 17 New
      +8
      * A smart face is not a sign of mind, gentlemen!
      All the stupid things on earth are done with this very expression.
      Smile, gentlemen; smile! * lol
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 1 May 2020 10: 33 New
        +8
        Quote: Phil77
        * A smart face is not a sign of mind, gentlemen!
        All the stupid things on earth are done with this very expression.
        Smile, gentlemen; smile! * lol

        wink laughing fellow wassat
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 1 May 2020 10: 37 New
          +5
          Grigory Gorin was a talent! How many more of his phrases went to the people!
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 1 May 2020 14: 10 New
    +3
    Quote: Bar1
    judging by the comments, the author, with his articles, awakens a low interest from the local public, will moderators not pay attention to this?

    In the country, demographics need to be raised, but you are all about the moral character of the builder of communism ... negative
  • kalibr
    2 May 2020 18: 17 New
    +1
    Quote: Bar1
    judging by the comments, the author, with his articles, awakens a low interest from the local public, will moderators not pay attention to this?

    They won't, Timur, even if I put pictures from the "Secret Cabinet" in Pompeii. And already there ... in its pure form !!! Even looking scary. But ... they made it public. Damned rotting West! But you have to accept ...
  • Moskovit
    Moskovit 1 May 2020 09: 44 New
    10
    Regarding my beloved, Crete does not agree with the author. The female nudity, in my opinion, concerns only cult objects and its servants. He rummaged in his archives and found a photo from the Heraklion Archaeological Museum. Frescoes from the Knossos Palace. Everyone is dressed very decent.

    Yes, and purely practical. The climate in Crete is not tropical. Often windy. You don’t look like this .. sparkling
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 1 May 2020 09: 55 New
      +8
      Probably you are right from the point of view of practice. As a woman’s breast, without a supporting, umm, garment bounces. Which is good only from the point of view of advertising / I mean advertising of sports bras /. But for women it would be at least inconvenient to wear such a thing.
      1. Moskovit
        Moskovit 1 May 2020 10: 05 New
        +7
        Exactly! The Cretans led an active economic life. It’s not lying on a deck chair, and not collecting roots in the jungle.
    2. Olgovich
      Olgovich 1 May 2020 11: 46 New
      +6
      Quote: Moskovit
      Everyone is dressed very decent.

      Yes, and purely practical. The climate in Crete is not tropical. Often windy.
      I think that the option mentioned in the article was "worn" in about the same cases as dresses with a deep neckline in the 18th, 19,20,21th, XNUMXth, XNUMXst centuries.

      In the rest of his life, of course, this was not, it is simply impractical. what
    3. AllBiBek
      AllBiBek 1 May 2020 12: 01 New
      +5
      So this is not the Minoan period, but the Mycenaean, this is a different smallness.
      1. Moskovit
        Moskovit 1 May 2020 13: 56 New
        +1

        There you have the Minoan period.
        Ask your spouse / girl if her breasts will freeze at +15 and in strong winds. Adipose tissue is far from everyone. It is mainly on the stomach and sides)). Many women dream that she appeared on their chest).
        And the climate there be healthy. Climbing the palaces of Knossos and the untwisted Malia, he noticed how thick the stone walls were. Not for nothing ..
        1. AllBiBek
          AllBiBek 1 May 2020 14: 05 New
          +3
          Asked, does not freeze). It is there about the same size as on the Minoan figurines.

          On the topic of climate - make an adjustment for the period, for the Mediterranean this is the most elaborated question.

          He was soft at that time, about the size of a woman’s breasts of the same size as on this very figurine. There the main dwelling is semi-dugouts, and often even without a hearth, and if the hearth is also without a turluk (these are lumps of clay) to preserve the heat of the fire.

          They began to noticeably warm themselves in the Early Iron.
          1. Moskovit
            Moskovit 1 May 2020 17: 48 New
            +1

            See how thick the walls are in the palace in Malia.
            1. AllBiBek
              AllBiBek 1 May 2020 18: 10 New
              -2
              Well, do you see a looser fragment in the same pictures in the lighter region? He is there half of it.

              Congratulations, now you know about soil processes and redeposition from layer to layer, depending on the prescription and depth, a little more than before.

              By the way, yes, the fact that it is above, without pressure from above, and even under the daily sun of its latitudes at its time of year, is also a factor. So good, and weighty, for what is there.

              You see molehills-marmots there, and so on?

              I don’t see it either.

              And they are there.

              And it is necessary to chop on the spot with your right hand to understand where they are there and where and how much.

              And then a goby from Belomor in the Paleolithic will turn out to be a well-known case.

              In fairness, according to the mentioned bull-calf, it was established who secretly smoked in the excavation in 1972-1975. It was on Kamennaya Balka ... (this is a very famous story).
    4. AllBiBek
      AllBiBek 1 May 2020 12: 44 New
      +4
      Uh ... Excuse me, have you ever heard from a woman a complaint that her breast is freezing? There is continuous fatty tissue, and even near the heart and lungs.

      Anything freezes from them - the head, neck, arms-legs, belly-lower back, buttocks at last, but breasts - last.
  • Undecim
    Undecim 1 May 2020 10: 12 New
    12
    Quote: Bar1
    judging by the comments, the author, with his articles, awakens a low interest from the local public, will moderators not pay attention to this?

    Judging by the reaction, the author awakens with some articles either hypocrisy, or envy and longing for lost opportunities.
    1. Bar1
      Bar1 1 May 2020 11: 49 New
      -7
      Quote: Undecim
      Quote: Bar1
      judging by the comments, the author, with his articles, awakens a low interest from the local public, will moderators not pay attention to this?

      Judging by the reaction, the author awakens with some articles either hypocrisy, or envy and longing for lost opportunities.

      prefer to spin in brothel circles?
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 1 May 2020 14: 17 New
        +7
        Quote: Bar1

        prefer to spin in brothel circles?

        In the brothel exclusively women workers revolve, but about circles something new, I have never met circles in any of the institutions you mentioned. Tell me, interesting - floating brothel? hi
        1. cost
          cost 1 May 2020 19: 28 New
          +4
          A round brothel, it’s obvious - a big top brothel .... with bunks in the arena. Converted from a circus ... or from a planetariumlaughing
    2. BAI
      BAI 1 May 2020 21: 06 New
      +4
      It’s like Stalin’s:
      Once, Stalin was informed that Marshal Rokossovsky had a lover, and this was the famous beauty actress Valentina Serova. And, they say, what will we do with them now? Stalin took a pipe from his mouth, thought a little and said: - What will we, what will we ... we will envy!
  • Andobor
    Andobor 1 May 2020 10: 13 New
    +3
    Who is talking about boobs, I’ll tell you about a snake, this is the oldest of the established and survived to the present day, in the form of an emblem of medicine myths motifs, means - immortality, rebirth, the snake changes the skin - because it lives forever, but the person has lost such an opportunity or did not gain, in different variations of this bike more than 50 thousand years, established Yuri Berezkin; https://youtu.be/WE7qMhkeDT4.
    From the images the same bike is visible, there are snakes in the child’s grave - Malta, about 30 thousand years old.
    1. AllBiBek
      AllBiBek 1 May 2020 12: 04 New
      +7
      Somehow, the mole’s skeleton fell into the grave of a Neanderthal, and in Kostenki from the Cro-Magnon’s graves there are skeletons of marmots (though one of them ended up being a newborn, but they considered him to be a marmot for a couple of months).

      This is to say that there are all kinds of molehills, groundhogs, and other holes in the ground, where the snake could squeeze in, and get to the burial place, where they die - they are very numerous.
      1. Andobor
        Andobor 1 May 2020 15: 29 New
        +3
        Quote: AllBiBek
        I somehow got the mole’s skeleton in the grave of a Neanderthal

        You don’t understand, - the image of a snake on a plate of mammoth bone, the other side of the spiral there is better known, some people think of them as a calendar, I will not say anything about it - I didn’t go: https://bm.digital/artefact/663238369528799409/ plastina-iz-siberian-vechnoj-merzlotyi
        1. AllBiBek
          AllBiBek 1 May 2020 15: 39 New
          +3
          Is it this one from Malta?
          So there is no established opinion, and will not, until the material base is replenished with analogues.

          In the 80s it was fashionable to pull on an astronomical base like this, but as computers penetrated the everyday life, it became clear that you could easily pull it on anything at all.

          I came across the calculations of linking a handful of stones on the foundation of a 19th-century farm to stars of the first magnitude in the sky at the time of the Solstice.

          Brad, yes. But - it's the same "artifacts of the M-chkoy anomalous zone, the same!".

          The fact that ufologists "dated" this crap at 200 years, and that then the picture of the starry sky was a little different - did not bother anyone, they tied it by means of a PDA to the fact that there is now - business-like - a liter of cognac over vodka by the fire .. ...
          1. Andobor
            Andobor 1 May 2020 15: 53 New
            +1
            Quote: AllBiBek
            In the 80s it was fashionable to pull on an astronomical base like that.

            And I don’t say anything about astronomy, but the snake is almost unambiguously the one in the grave about eternal life and rebirth, according to Berezkin it’s still African, I might not have believed him if I hadn’t seen such signs from Africa to Australia. And all this is about how you can read ancient memes on its basis, I was not interested in anything other than the snake, and as I understand it, no one was involved in this, and he himself only studies folklore, does not transfer to artifacts.
            1. AllBiBek
              AllBiBek 1 May 2020 16: 29 New
              0
              That writing (in terms of basic forms and directions) that ornaments - forms first of all the material, secondly - the psychology of the one who applies it, and well, thirdly - cultural traditions.

              Dotted spiral lines are the most primitive that exist, they almost certainly reached them on their own.

              Experiments with children, when they are given a felt-tip pen, and are asked to draw a circle with dots, give exactly the same result.

              This artifact - it’s from those times when counting more than on the fingers - it didn’t make sense, and it’s from a culture for which to know in days the length of the year so as not to starve to death — was generally superfluous, enough of the current phases of the Moon, equinoxes, solstices, and other things.

              Well, to apply something beautiful for the human brain with a minimum amount of physical cost - symmetrical spirals for snakes will be.

              When there was a need for zoomorphicism in the Paleolithic, for detailing statuettes, or for symbolism - they did so, and nothing else. Purposeful abstractions appeared later, in a different geological period.
  • Senior seaman
    Senior seaman 1 May 2020 10: 59 New
    +5
    And here I am interested in the moment of coloring. As I understand it, it was tight with dyes. Whitening is even worse, only in the sun. Oh, okay. Purple is so expensive that only very rich or royal blood ... what else?
    1. AllBiBek
      AllBiBek 1 May 2020 12: 07 New
      +7
      Vegetable mainly. Marena and weida (such herbs), and alum for fixing paint.
  • abrakadabre
    abrakadabre 1 May 2020 11: 35 New
    +5
    a blood-red tunic - exomid, which the Spartans began to wear completely over time, abandoning armor for the torso and hips

    But mobility and training turned out to be more significant for them than individual protection. Helmets and shields - they considered it sufficient!
    There is a suspicion that it was their agricultural Spartan economy that they considered not sufficient, and only helmets and shields were feasible for themselves.
    You don’t need a lot of metal on the helmet, and the shield is generally wooden with close-fitting leather (mainly).
    Especially at a time when large professional armies such as the Macedonians and other Romans became frequent in Greece. With a logical result: knocking out the most prepared part of the Spartan army, accompanied by a massive loss of equipment (the same thorax), which could serve more than one generation in the family. Sparta's bony patriarchal economy couldn’t pull it all. Equipping the army again and again.
    The Spartans were of course superprofits. But with the mobilization of human and economic reserves in the event of a major defeat, they were sad. Otherwise, even contemptible (in their opinion) helots would not have been drafted into the army with enviable regularity.
    1. Bar1
      Bar1 1 May 2020 11: 54 New
      -6
      Quote: abrakadabre
      The Spartans were of course superprofits.


      finite if Sparta were to be in reality
      Here is a map of Sanson 1670. There is neither Sparta nor Athens, instead of Athens the city of Setines i.e. just a town, some kind.

    2. AllBiBek
      AllBiBek 1 May 2020 12: 09 New
      +3
      There is such a point of view.
      There is another: the first to switch over to the fact that the same Macedonian was the main armor in the phalanx.

      That is, on a multilayer linen shell, on linothorax.
      1. abrakadabre
        abrakadabre 2 May 2020 19: 47 New
        0
        That is, on a multilayer linen shell, on linothorax.
        It is not another, it is the same - economic. Bronze thorax was significantly more expensive. What is not good for the mass army.
    3. Engineer
      Engineer 1 May 2020 12: 29 New
      +6
      Good topic for discussion. Couple of comments
      . The anatomical carapace had a minority of phalangites on all warring parties.
      And in general, how much is it needed if the fight consists of opposing the phalanges first of all ?. Perhaps it is better to fight light while maintaining cardio if the fight drags on?
      The Spartans were of course superprofits. But with the mobilization of human and economic reserves in the event of a major defeat, they were sad.

      They made good use of the traditional enmity between Thebans and Athenians, compensating for their small numbers.
      In the Sicilian campaign, the Boeotians did all the work on land, and the Corinthians on the sea.
      As soon as the Thebans began to lead their game, it turned out that their hoplites were no worse.
      1. AllBiBek
        AllBiBek 1 May 2020 12: 51 New
        +2
        So, in the end, all the same, they came to the conclusion that the small work of the Peltasts took up the main work of defeating the phalanges.

        The Spartan phalanx, which begs it, took maneuverability (as far as any other phalanx of its time), and the training of each of those who stood in it.

        And the same peltasts from helots for covering the flanks.

        Note that they didn’t go to battle under the drum roll, but under the flute, that is, it suggests that there was a certain set of motives and melodies under which they were rebuilt, or concentrated their efforts on a particular site. That is, there was an institute of observers who transmitted the necessary information to the flutist.

        A rumor was developed by them from childhood, and it is not in vain that Sparta is a city of a thousand choirs.
        1. Engineer
          Engineer 1 May 2020 13: 00 New
          +5
          Notice, they didn’t go to battle under the drum roll, but under the flute

          The Athenians too. And the Thebans. Even on triremes, the beat of the flute was set.
          So, in the end, all the same, they came to the conclusion that the small work of the Peltasts took up the main work of defeating the phalanges.

          There were only two episodes. Sphakteria and Lech. And so the phalanx was broken by the phalanx.
          The Spartan phalanx, which begs it, took maneuverability (as much as any other phalanx of its time)

          You can take the battle of Coronea as evidence, but not a lot
          1. AllBiBek
            AllBiBek 1 May 2020 13: 46 New
            +2
            I could be wrong, but under Lechaeus, Iphistratus did not exhibit an Athenian shotgunted rabble with darts, called "peltasts", but under the same name - light Thracian spearmen - spearmen - who, in addition, had at least a Thracian sika and copy.

            The Spartans, having no equestrian cover, were allowed to accelerate against these youngest ones and in single fights (the formation is sacred!), But then it seems clear, in a single hoplite against such a "peltast" does not work in any way, because there is nothing, a Spartan sword at that time - rather a props, and with the same length, a heavy spear is heavier than a light one, oddly enough.

            I mean, the two given examples of battles were more than enough for military affairs in the region to be rebuilt, if not radically, then tangibly, but here are the details ...
            1. Engineer
              Engineer 1 May 2020 13: 56 New
              +2
              Definitely not a rabble. Plutarch calls Iphicrates' warriors "mercenaries". Moreover, he lengthened spears according to the Boeotian. The essence of the changes is still the subject of discussion.
              I mean, the two given examples of battles were more than enough for military affairs in the region to be rebuilt, if not radically, then tangibly, but here are the details ...

              Sure, but I have a strong feeling that the reputation of the phalanx was only shaken. The phalanx was still the best remedy for the phalanx.
              1. AllBiBek
                AllBiBek 1 May 2020 14: 15 New
                0
                So I am about the same.
                The usual term was called the unknown type of hired troops.
                Writing is a great force, especially if there is an institution of continuity of written sources from the previous period to the present.

                By the way, the Assyrians were the first to finish it, they literally copied the Sumerian tablets, and put the mark "the Sumerian language is preserved." They did not know how to read them, which is typical.

                In Nineveh, many of these surfaced, and most of the knowledge about Sumer is from them.

                But with what and how and against whom the same Thracians fought, or a giant layer of Celts of all kinds and throughout their entire lengths that geographically, chronologically - this is archeology, but it is not fast ... (.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Engineer
    Engineer 1 May 2020 13: 43 New
    +3
    Since the subject of nudity was raised by the author voluntarily or involuntarily, one can recall the directly related question: did the ancient Greeks fight completely naked, having only armor, as is shown in some images? There is work in Russian on this topic with some analysis and historiography. The author is the notorious Nefedkin.
    Nudity of the Greek warrior: heroics or reality?
    www.gumer.info ›bibliotek_Buks› History ›Article› nef_nagota
    1. AllBiBek
      AllBiBek 1 May 2020 13: 59 New
      +2
      I have not read this work of his yet, but - Nefedkin always has the same problem; chronology of the issue. He crumpled into one pile the facts of generally different eras, with a spread of centuries.

      If he takes up work on a Russian muzzle-loading firearm, you can be sure that he will mix together the minines of the times of Minin and Pozharsky, and the rifles of the times of the Crimean War, and the fusees of the times of Napoleon, and the wicked beeps of the archers of the times of Ivan the Terrible.

      And in approximately the same order.

      Greeks - what? (they are extinct species of both island and continental, because it’s also Achaean and Dorian both here and there, it’s different!). When? (there one and a half thousand years in the thick of all the events of the region). With whom and against whom? (they are there everywhere). In which place? (there is ecumenical - 2500 per 1500 km minimum, and this is only before the Macedonian campaigns, and there is already a Hellenized ecumenical community, it is from Egypt to almost India only from west to east).

      Somehow
      1. Engineer
        Engineer 1 May 2020 14: 06 New
        +3
        1.ВСе is determined by the scale and aspect stipulated in the opus.
        2. If there is not enough information, historians draw material from neighboring eras and regions. Of course, with reservations. Nefedkin is not alone here. Moreover, the only way to show the evolution of the phenomenon
        3. If Nefedkin needs to structure the articles more clearly, then I agree, but this is a problem for many historians; we don’t have an essay on Western culture.
        In the end, the ordinary reader is more concerned with the question "so cho straight naked chopped?" Nefedkin tries to answer him.
        1. AllBiBek
          AllBiBek 1 May 2020 14: 24 New
          -1
          And what is there to answer?

          In the same south - if the situation permits (like there is no Turya, and there are a lot of mercenaries who have spent a bunch of terms in a sample of cubic meters) - archaeologists are not so rarely working completely naked. If it is a normal expedition (that is, there are no preoccupied informals at all) - then girls can work at the excavation site in negligence, in such heat - there are no vulgar thoughts there.

          If it’s hot, and all the clothes are made of wool or coarse linen, then why not?

          In general, I see no reason to inflate the monograph from such nonsense, especially in the style of Nefedkin.
          1. Engineer
            Engineer 1 May 2020 14: 28 New
            +3
            OK. Before reading the article, this was completely not obvious to me. I considered this a canon of fine arts. And after some doubts remained.
            This is an article, not a monograph.
            BUT there are distractions, the same small excursion into pederasty among the Greeks in the article is not directly related to the topic. Indirect too, as for me
            1. AllBiBek
              AllBiBek 1 May 2020 14: 38 New
              +1
              And in this matter, the "Nefyodkin effect" will always also take place.

              That is, translated texts of ancient Greek philosophers (without going deeper into the semantics of texts) will be extensively supplied with a visual next to amphorae not at all for an era.

              The Greeks always had a problem of overpopulation, no one argues. Infant mortality is the highest, a lot of evidence to that.

              But, with that mode of life and with that productivity of agriculture, and with the not quite current approach to sex as such - well, there wasn’t time or energy for such stupid things, they couldn’t stay.

              What is there and how in military campaigns, the institute of "lovers", the types of all agape and strict - this is a ground for thought. In 99% of cases - from the position of the 21st century A.D. and everyone clucks and taboo this aspect in all these centuries within the Christian ecumene.

              It is even presented here in the comments, about horror, brothels - this is evil ...
              1. Engineer
                Engineer 1 May 2020 14: 43 New
                +2
                "Nefyodkin effect"

                Professional jargon? laughing Nefedkin's parable?
                1. AllBiBek
                  AllBiBek 1 May 2020 14: 49 New
                  0
                  There is also the "Pokhlebkin effect", in Nefyodkin's place I would be proud.

                  And also - the "Rybakov effect", in the place of Nefyodkin, I would think.

                  I have nothing against standing on a par with Gumilyov, but better with his father than with his son ...
                  1. Engineer
                    Engineer 1 May 2020 14: 51 New
                    +2
                    one row with Gumilyov, but better with his father than with his son.

                    Better not, the time of the martyrs has passed. I am hopeful. Life on them trampled down notably.
                    1. AllBiBek
                      AllBiBek 1 May 2020 15: 07 New
                      -1
                      Don’t tell me.

                      The Swedes in Peter's times also believed that the time of bows as army weapons had passed. And afterwards, hundreds of Kalmyks were sent there, with ethnic weapons.

                      From the more recent - well, for example, no one supports the theory of anthropological polycentrism openly with us.

                      In addition to Anatoly Panteleimonovich Derevyanko. And, of course, his current graduate students (there is a suspicion that it is for show, they are graduate students).

                      But here is "Homo Denisova", and all the resources attracted for the study of Denisovskaya - and there is nothing special to oppose. And China fully agrees with this that they are a separate humanity (I also do not argue). The fact that 75 years ago they were under the same argumentation - you are a different kind of people! - Japanese officers of the Kwantung Army evaporated the liver to gobble up - they, of course, remember, but - it's different, you have to understand!

                      We will see what will happen in this area in ten years in terms of factual material and its interpretation. I hope I live.
                      1. Engineer
                        Engineer 1 May 2020 15: 11 New
                        +2
                        You are about the vocational-technical aspect, and I'm talking about the personal one.
                        If you stand on a par with someone, then by achievements, and not by the scale of personal tragedy like both Gumilev’s
                      2. AllBiBek
                        AllBiBek 1 May 2020 15: 18 New
                        0
                        From this perspective - the martyr of fate from beginning to end, and left martyred, and in poverty on the verge of poverty - only Pokhlebkin. All other nifiga did not live in poverty either in the first half of his life's journey, or under his curtain.

                        By the way, Pokhlebkin was more versed in cooking than the older Gumilyov — in poetry, the younger — in working with sources, and Rybakov — in mythology as a science (he was a good archaeologist, at least for his time and period of specialization).
                      3. Engineer
                        Engineer 1 May 2020 15: 30 New
                        +2
                        You do not favor the elder as a poet.
                        Although I, in principle, also
                        Pokhlebkin is a mystery to me.
  • abrakadabre
    abrakadabre 2 May 2020 20: 01 New
    +1
    whether the ancient Greeks fought completely naked, having only armor, as can be seen in some images
    My humble and amateurish opinion that they still fought dressed and shod. Why:
    1. The shell in its essence and design is rude. Even linothorax. Bronze thorax and even more so. This means that it will not be comfortable on bare skin at all, but after a few hours of sweating even more generally. Even the horse's skin does not stand up to this and are required by the pop. And human skin is tenderly softer. With any hardening.
    2. The shell is heating up. Any. Under the scorching rays of Greece heats up generally mercilessly. No hardening of the body here will save.
    3. Similarities about shoes. You can add only the problem of barefoot movement across the battlefield, in cramped conditions and dotted with corpses and dying, parts of equipment and weapons. Even taking on faith the assumption of hardened feet almost to the level of the hoof.
    1. Engineer
      Engineer 3 May 2020 12: 59 New
      0
      1. The shell in its essence and design is rude

      Undoubtedly. But the leggings too, and they were worn on bare feet. By the way, the Corinthian helmet did not have a cap comforter. But they also wore
      The shell is heating up.
      And if without him at all?
      Objections to the norms, but here one thing must be understood when comprehending history, everyday logic does not work.
      The article, as I understand it, was not read). And there are good arguments in favor of nudity.
      1. abrakadabre
        abrakadabre 7 May 2020 16: 43 New
        0
        But the leggings too, and they were worn on bare feet.
        What makes you think that the Knemids were worn on a bare foot?
        By the way, the Corinthian helmet did not have a cap comforter.
        Yah! The Corinthian helmet often did not have a BUILT-IN comforter. Which does not mean at all that there was no liner at all. However, on other types of ancient Greek (and antique in general) helmets, there are often many small holes along the edge. That says about the constructive fastening of the lining. To be convinced of this, it is enough to score in Google a search for pictures on antique helmets and turn on the additional option "high resolution pictures" to filter out any modern and fantasy dregs - more photos from world museums will be released. Here's a quick glance:

        Two more things say about the presence / use of a shock-absorbing lining:
        1. The geometric dimensions of helmets - they are much larger than the average size of human skulls, adjusted for the soft tissue of the head. So, the extra empty space had to be filled with something else. For the helmet to sit on the head in a stable position.
        2. Any other military helmets of other nations ALWAYS, throughout the history of mankind, have been and are being used with at least a symbolic lining. This is also observed with the fighting metal heads of other peoples of the synchronous period. Because it is physiology. It has been the same for all homo sapiens over the last hundred thousand years or so.
        And if without him at all?
        Without it, in this case it is much more comfortable. Well, until a fighter is poked with a sharp piece of iron or shot from a bow. The same Zulus or Maori in traditional military uh ... kits will not let you lie. And metal on a naked body is ... be sure to try to hang a piece of sheet metal on your belly, it doesn’t matter which one - iron, brass, bronze and go out into the sun for a couple of hours.
        when comprehending history, everyday logic does not work.
        It is completely unclear why you brought household logic. I’m very familiar with armor.
        I did not read the article, as I understand it
        Erroneous statement. Extremely erroneous.
        And there are good arguments in favor of nudity.
        Very lame arguments, I will tell you.
        1. Engineer
          Engineer 7 May 2020 17: 16 New
          0
          OK. Could have made a mistake with the Corinthian helmet. For some reason, this fact firmly settled in my memory
          The geometric dimensions of helmets - they are significantly larger than the average size of human skulls, adjusted for the soft tissue of the head.

          Some Corinthian helmets are inexplicably small. From what he himself saw in Heraklion.
          Without it, in this case it is much more comfortable. Well, until a fighter is poked with a sharp piece of iron or shot from a bow

          From what I read, it seemed that most hoplites of the polis period (classic) were without shells. Though linen, even anatomical. Which means that nudity is at hand
          Leggings remain - they seem to be exactly unlined. Must rub, but worn nonetheless
          Very lame arguments, I will tell you.

          Here you are in your right, undoubtedly
          1. abrakadabre
            abrakadabre 7 May 2020 18: 53 New
            +1
            OK. Could have made a mistake with the Corinthian helmet.
            In fact, it is the deaf Orinthian and especially Apulo-Corinthian helmets that most often do not have pronounced lining mounts. Although a high-quality photo of the internal appearance is extremely difficult to find. But if you look closely, then for a thin comforter, such as a felt hat, there is a place there. We look:
            classic corinthian helmet


            apulo-corinthian helmet


            On both above the eyebrow-ear line there is an extension. Here it is possible to insert a felt cap into it and it will stay there without falling out even without fastening. Only due to the rigidity of the felt itself.
            the impression was that most hoplites of the polis period (classic) were without shells.
            Naturally. Because the weapons were acquired by the hoplites at their own expense. And it was very expensive. That is why the main protective element was the shield. And not only for the considered ancient era, but even for medieval knights until the end of the 13th century inclusive. Helmet and shield.
            But we are talking about wearing armor in our context. The first line was still equipped with soldiers in shells. If possible. All sorts of Peltasts and young wars from the back rows could well have been only in tunics. Or whatever they called it.
            Leggings remain - they seem to be exactly unlined.
            No. It hurts, I assure you. very painful in battle. Slightly less, but exhausting, it hurts on the march. It hurts nowadays and it was painful then.
            In addition, in Crimea there is a find of knemids with the remains of organic matter on the inside. Leggings of modern hoplites of peoples were not worn on a naked body.
  • Pacifist with AK
    Pacifist with AK 1 May 2020 14: 52 New
    +6
    Yes, another interesting article from the author! Respect! But, especially, pleased with the comments, some kind of historical erotic riot of fantasy)))))
    It seems to me that the Amazon heroine of myths is the most accurate embodiment of the female image of couches and real warriors from VO! And good, and armed, and dangerous, and extremely attractive))))))))))))))))) 0

    1. AllBiBek
      AllBiBek 1 May 2020 15: 12 New
      +4
      Yeah, I somehow even wrote humorous prose at this moment.

      One girl considered herself a Phoenix bird, but she said to all the boys that she had been chosen by God to save France and crown the king, as Archangel Michael regularly tells her. Why, for the sake of convincingness, I dressed in the boys' casual clothes. The boys believed her, followed her, took Orleans, and crowned the king there. But the other boys did not believe this girl, took her prisoner, and burned at the stake for witchcraft and for dressing in boyish clothes. From the ashes, it never reborn, although it considered itself a Phoenix bird.

      What conclusions can be drawn from this instructive story?

      1. Girls are rarely what they are building out of themselves.
      2. And even less often, they are what they imagine about themselves.
      3. But do not burn them for it? So in general we will remain without girls.
      4. Girls, we are so enraged when you put on our clothes without demand - you are ready to burn for it ...
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 1 May 2020 18: 35 New
        +3
        Girls, we are so enraged when you put on our clothes without demand - you are ready to burn for this ...
        "How many times have I told you: don't touch my guitar !!!" (C) laughing
      2. Catfish
        Catfish 2 May 2020 21: 22 New
        +3
        Girls, we are so enraged when you put on our clothes without demand - you are ready to burn for this ...

        Better so, probably ...
    2. vladcub
      vladcub 1 May 2020 15: 39 New
      +6
      Pretty girls. I'm attracted to the bottom
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 2 May 2020 21: 18 New
        +2
        I'm attracted to the bottom

        How much?
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 1 May 2020 16: 37 New
      +4
      Quote: Pacifist with AK

      It seems to me that the Amazon heroine of myths is the most accurate embodiment of the female image of couches and real warriors from VO! And good, and armed, and dangerous, and extremely attractive)))))))))))))))) 0 [center]

      And rarely washed ...
      1. Pacifist with AK
        Pacifist with AK 1 May 2020 16: 44 New
        +2
        ... But then Lieutenant Krasnodar came and debased everything ....)))))
    5. BAI
      BAI 1 May 2020 21: 12 New
      +1
      This is the fantasy style. It has nothing to do with reality. The creature in the lower picture near the lady's feet is proof of this. For that matter, Xena Warrior Princess is more realistic.
  • vladcub
    vladcub 1 May 2020 15: 26 New
    +6
    "The shoes looked like men and had no heels," but now women have tall heels with tight shoes. And then they complain that the nails grow in and take every step with difficulty.
    Sometimes I think: women would be healthy and rich, but various Dior and Louboutin make them poor cripples, and they are happy
    1. AllBiBek
      AllBiBek 1 May 2020 15: 30 New
      +1
      Well, the Romans from the time of Caesar, any presence of a protruding chest was wound to the ribs, so as not to protrude. For the standard of female beauty of its time.

      Believe me, women have always found how to mutilate themselves, and always will.
      1. Liam
        Liam 1 May 2020 15: 34 New
        +2
        Quote: AllBiBek
        Well, the Romans from the time of Caesar, any presence of a protruding chest was wound to the ribs, so as not to protrude. For the standard of feminine beauty of its time

        Do not share the source of these allegations?
        1. AllBiBek
          AllBiBek 1 May 2020 15: 48 New
          0
          Rat-Veg Istvan and his "History of Human Stupidity", most likely, there is a lot of this sort of thing.
          I won’t say more precisely.
          1. Liam
            Liam 1 May 2020 15: 59 New
            +3
            For some reason, Ovid has a different opinion on this matter. In Ars amatoria, he advised compatriots with small breasts to "build up" them with pieces of tissue under strophium.)
            1. AllBiBek
              AllBiBek 1 May 2020 16: 41 New
              0
              But it’s nothing if public moralophages at all times advise something - it means that from their point of view this is not enough, and it means in reality at the moment in fashion - is everything exactly wrong?

              Here, after a couple of thousand, they dig up a bunch of written from the USSR and all kinds, subtract there that girls are recommended to wear skirts below the knee, and conclude that all the girls in the USSR at that time certainly wore skirts below the knee, that was the standard of beauty.

              Ovid Nason - these are the times when a little more - and Christ will be born, there is a tangible fashion for everything German, Caesar dragged.

              The Romans there already began to wear pants in places, and not at all because it is practical in those latitudes. An analogue of sportswear with three stripes of its time.

              The German fashion in clothes is to emphasize the breasts of women, before them this was not observed by anyone.

              Why they had it like that - there are many options, but generally accepted - in order to distinguish them from the same Celtic women, in Europe at that time, the Celts and Germans with each other - everything is very, very complicated.

              Fashion - it is not only now changing from one to the opposite once every three years, it always has been. To catch the general motives and trends - you need to know her by period and region at least three hundred years.
              1. Liam
                Liam 1 May 2020 16: 59 New
                +1
                Quote: AllBiBek
                To catch common motives and trends

                As you can see ...not so simple)
                1. AllBiBek
                  AllBiBek 1 May 2020 17: 18 New
                  -1
                  Naturally.

                  Therefore, measuring objects of the evolutionary-typological series with a caliper, so as not to get confused in the fashion for a period, is normal practice.

                  For the same Volga Bulgaria, for example, there is such a HEX as a semicircular tank of two platinum, and on the bottom there are exactly three nishlopka with a triangle.

                  Often meets.

                  Naboykots is considered to be on the heel (none of you will fit on the big toe), but the exact functionality is not clear.

                  But it is already divided into three waves with its own characteristics, and with reference to the dating, with a rigid one.

                  I'm also waiting for what will be guaranteed.
        2. cost
          cost 1 May 2020 19: 46 New
          +3
          Liam (Liam)
          Quote: AllBiBek
          Well, the Romans from the time of Caesar, any presence of a protruding chest was wound to the ribs, so as not to protrude. For the standard of feminine beauty of its time

          Do not share the source of these allegations?

          Colin McCullough also mentions this in the novel "The First Man in Rome". And she, in addition to her main specialty as a neuropsychologist, has a degree in history as a specialist. "Ancient Rome"
          1. Liam
            Liam 1 May 2020 19: 57 New
            +2
            I would like more academic sources than an art novelist
          2. AllBiBek
            AllBiBek 1 May 2020 20: 09 New
            -1
            Here I am confused by a number of points, namely:
            a) American. This is always alarming in questions of ancient history.
            b) neuro. This is always alarming, because under this prefix there are a lot of things that can be disguised as rubbish and everywhere.
            c) psychologist. Well, there is no comment at all, regardless of the topic where they climb with such a prefix.

            And at the exit - he can find anything - yes even there is a real Grail - but with such a clownish regalschina with which he is quoted and recited on the network - well, I think you understand.

            The tale of a boy and wolves, yes.

            However, I still do not know a single example where freaks or speculators on the topic would find something really worthwhile.

            The maximum is made by bold and unfounded conclusions on what is, and on the basis of what they have in their cranial.
    2. Liam
      Liam 1 May 2020 15: 32 New
      +3
      Quote: vladcub
      "The shoes looked like men and had no heels," but now women have tall heels with tight shoes. And then they complain that the nails grow in and take every step with difficulty.
      Sometimes I think: women would be healthy and rich, but various Dior and Louboutin make them poor cripples, and they are happy

      When was the last time you checked the life expectancy of women and men?
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 1 May 2020 16: 44 New
        +4
        In addition, Louboutin and Jimi Chu - shoes from the sponsor. From myself, beloved, Zara and Aldo laughing
        The last two producers are accompanied by stories about the suitors arriving on business in Biryulyovo (Buikany) on their own Bombardiers and Gulf Stream hi
        1. Liam
          Liam 1 May 2020 16: 50 New
          +3
          Women love ears and Louboutins) hi
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 1 May 2020 17: 01 New
            +2
            Some - show off)).
            1. Liam
              Liam 1 May 2020 17: 03 New
              +2
              If show offHogan definitely)
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 1 May 2020 17: 16 New
                +2
                This is a sportsman of the price level of Bickenberg)).
                1. Liam
                  Liam 1 May 2020 17: 22 New
                  +2
                  Having lost their head in the hair do not cry)
                  1. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 1 May 2020 19: 01 New
                    +3
                    In fact, the show-off is a Furl bag, taken in an outlet by installments. )) Although it costs 180 Euro
                    Birkin bag for 18 thousand Euros - at no longer show off, at, for one reason or another, a vital necessity laughing
                    1. Liam
                      Liam 1 May 2020 19: 18 New
                      +3
                      Clothing and accessories in installments is a perversion)
                      1. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 1 May 2020 19: 31 New
                        +3
                        I don’t know how in Italy - in Israel, half of the population splits such purchases into credit card payments laughing
                      2. Liam
                        Liam 1 May 2020 19: 44 New
                        +3
                        I expressed my personal opinion. Mortgage, car, furniture, yes. Clothing or shoes there in installments is definitely the path to bondage. It is easy to lose control over credit / debit)
                      3. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 1 May 2020 19: 56 New
                        +4
                        Taki lose laughing
                        In general, I try to take everything for what I have, and if I had to lend something to a business, then give money right away
    3. Phil77
      Phil77 2 May 2020 08: 09 New
      +2
      Quote: Krasnodar
      Biryulevo

      Good morning! Please disclose the topic Biryulyovo / Western, Eastern? /! Do not be difficult? what
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 2 May 2020 13: 04 New
        +4
        Greetings! hi
        Usually, girls from the sleeping areas of the capital like to tell when they get acquainted with a more or less money uncle from the country's regions about past super-rich boyfriends. I don’t know about the directions, but most likely, if it’s Biryulyovo Oriental, then we are talking about fans on Royces and Bentley, but if it’s Western, then the business jets are direct from Submilanya, Pritsurikhovschina, etc. laughing
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 2 May 2020 13: 23 New
          +3
          They lie. They both lie! In fact, our East in terms of housing is even cooler than the West. They have a TPP-26 there spoils the picture, and we have Tsaritsyno and the arboretum at hand! laughing Ecology, however!
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 2 May 2020 15: 19 New
            +3
            Girls want to show a high standard of consumption to a visiting provincial .. everyone understands everything, the most expensive gift is an iPhone laughing
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 2 May 2020 15: 27 New
              +2
              Well, the key word here is exactly * show *! It's no secret who settled in areas like mine, so these girls saw high standards only on TV. And they probably say all the time through * a * and with a little stretch like that! Yes?
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 2 May 2020 15: 50 New
                +2
                What they saw is clear after three minutes of conversation. laughing More meows, to be honest)) Type words stretch, and the talk of real Muscovites from the beginning of the zero I know
                1. Phil77
                  Phil77 2 May 2020 16: 15 New
                  +2
                  Yes, yes, yes !!!!!! Here is a very precise definition !!!!! It’s * meow *! I still can’t understand where it came from ?????? fool
                  1. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 2 May 2020 16: 22 New
                    +3
                    From any House - 2, probably)).
  • AllBiBek
    AllBiBek 1 May 2020 16: 54 New
    0
    Well, as history has shown, if they are given the opportunity to give birth safely and no more than 5 times in life, plus give normal nutrition - yes, they live longer.

    This does not negate the fact that if male life expectancy is increased to an average of one hundred years, the main cause of death after 75 will be prostate cancer (unless otherwise achieved, and there is a wide range of what may come first, women aged seventy who gave birth less than five times and who have good nutrition).

    Somehow it is in this area, alas, to us.
    1. Liam
      Liam 1 May 2020 16: 58 New
      +3
      In general, we must admit that they live more properly than men and therefore longer. Therefore, it is not for us to criticize them in this.
      PySy And this despite the fact that men do not even face 1 pregnancy in life, unlike women) .And it is difficult to come up with more stress for the body than motherhood - pregnancy, childbirth, feeding, etc.
      1. AllBiBek
        AllBiBek 1 May 2020 17: 11 New
        +1
        Yes, how can I tell you?

        The biggest stress for the body is an overabundance of male sex hormones. That's honest. Doctors will not let you lie.

        There is not a single example where an excess of testosterone did not give a good answer back after a certain time.

        Ergosterone is somehow easier.

        You can compare the doses of both those and those that "progressive Western medicine" prescribes to idiots / cams who decide to change their sex without surgery.

        Every eight times, it seems that the dosage is in dosage per kg of mass.

        Conclusion?

        The maintenance of full-fledged male eggs is much more expensive from the standpoint of biology than the desire to be a woman in life and functions.

        Yes, I'm a sexist. And not out of the blue.
        1. Liam
          Liam 1 May 2020 17: 16 New
          +3
          Quote: AllBiBek
          Yes, I'm a sexist. And not out of the blue.

          It’s rather victimism, not sexism
          1. AllBiBek
            AllBiBek 1 May 2020 17: 27 New
            -3
            Hear Victimble
            queer-pan_object?

            And to your lips as your materiel - not to gaslight?

            I can and can. Is it necessary?
            1. Liam
              Liam 1 May 2020 19: 02 New
              +2
              You seem uncommonly excited
            2. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 1 May 2020 20: 41 New
              +3
              Keep in frames, dear! Your knowledge, opinion and comments are certainly valuable, but not so much as to allow such escapades. However, by me such exercises are unacceptable from anyone.
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 1 May 2020 22: 07 New
                +4
                I liked the reaction of Liam)).
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 1 May 2020 22: 29 New
                  +3
                  Me too. Whenever my buffoonery was, I would have reacted the same way.
                2. Phil77
                  Phil77 2 May 2020 08: 01 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  I liked Liam's reaction

                  I liked the reaction of Krasnodar. good
              2. AllBiBek
                AllBiBek 2 May 2020 12: 59 New
                +1
                I apologize humbly, the visor dropped through the blue melon.

                I just do not like feminitives and, in general, everything that has grown out of gender heresy, especially terminology. I do not like rabies.

                This is really the largest pseudoscientific layer that has gone to the masses over the past half century. It is even more massive than conspiracy theory and UFO combined.
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 2 May 2020 13: 01 New
                  +3
                  It happens. We drove through. hi
      2. DDT
        DDT 10 May 2020 17: 53 New
        0
        Quote: Liam
        In general, we must admit that they live more properly than men and therefore longer. Therefore, it is not for us to criticize them in this.
        PySy And this despite the fact that men do not even face 1 pregnancy in life, unlike women) .And it is difficult to come up with more stress for the body than motherhood - pregnancy, childbirth, feeding, etc.

        Dear, how are we men not threatened with pregnancy ?!
        Every two or three days, I’m stably pregnant, and not once a month ... like mine.
        Do not lie! Give the Minoan fashion to the masses !!! wassat
  • vladcub
    vladcub 1 May 2020 17: 42 New
    +8
    It’s all different. As a child, he knew the old man, years 93-94, and he would pick up a bucket of water in a spring and carry it uphill, somewhere around 9 meters, and so every day. In addition, he practiced shooting from 2 trunks on hemp. Sometimes he gave us a shot.
    At that time in the villages there were many people who were over 80, and now there are few such people. For example, my mother is 90, a participant in the Second World War (st20), she is the oldest in the quarter, and even 7-8 years ago, there were more of them. I doubt that our children have been able to live so much: ecology to hell. Greta Tunberg does not have 100% of everything at home, but she is right: we pumped nature.
    Thanks to this sick quarantine: nature rests for a month.
  • bubalik
    bubalik 1 May 2020 21: 24 New
    +4
    a Greek wrapped himself in a hematium (woolen cloak over four meters long
    ,,, belay in 4 m of woolen fabric, this was the frost they had!
    1. AllBiBek
      AllBiBek 2 May 2020 08: 57 New
      +1
      Tissues. This is a keyword.
      In our country, wool is associated with a large-knit sweater by the hands of grandmother.

      Woven wool by mechanical properties is approximately like cotton with twice as thick thread.

      4 meters is a half-folded piece, half - so that the air gap is between, it works like an ejector.

      Something like that.
  • DDT
    DDT 10 May 2020 17: 49 New
    0
    Beauties !!! That's where the FEMEN roots grow from. good
    I asked the bride-archaeologist, - "they say what, why? Why so?" The answer surprised, why not ?!
    So I made a decision, I want my house to follow only the Minoan fashion ... stop