Military Review

War in the city: the inevitable scenario of the future

64

Conflict zones in human settlements present unique challenges for the military, both tactically and technologically.


It is estimated that up to 90% of the world's population will live in densely populated urban agglomerations by 2050, and therefore the armed forces are paying particular attention to hostilities in limited and densely populated built-up areas.

The warlords responsible for conducting operations in the city face many difficulties that range from the positive identification of enemy forces to the organization and maintenance of appropriate levels of communication capabilities in operations in underground structures and high-rise buildings.

In addition, they must be able to rely on precision weapons to eliminate any risk of friendly fire and shelling of the local population, in particular if the enemy uses the local population as a human shield.

Densely populated area


Many of these issues were addressed in a research report published last December by the Joint Special Operations University (JSOU). It describes the "operational and political consequences of hostilities in densely populated urban areas."

In this document, the JSOU warns of increasing migration flows to urban and peri-urban areas in 2020-2050, resulting in "the density of the urban population will grow steadily."

The paper notes that the possible consequences of this, whether in the context of traditional large-scale, counterinsurgency or counter-terrorism operations, humanitarian aid or disaster relief, are very difficult to predict.

On the one hand, large-scale attacks on the central part of cities with traditional weapons or weapons mass destruction can lead to outgoing migration flows that clog the main transport arteries and impede military mobilization and retaliation. On the other hand, urbanization over time transforms the political structure of society, which can lead to rebel or terrorist operations against friendly governments.


The armed forces continue to develop the principles of combat use and tactics, methods and methods of warfare associated with operations in densely populated areas, where personnel will have to operate in difficult conditions

In other cases, the armed forces may be involved to provide humanitarian assistance to the subjects of the city level in connection with the failure of local authorities caused by a natural disaster. In each of these cases, the armed forces will need concepts for action and analysis of social reality in densely populated areas.

Following the definition of the problem, the JSOU document looks at how next-generation technologies could support the armed forces striving to increase combat effectiveness in urban environments through increased use of social media and modeling tools, as well as the use of small drones.

Future operations


Many of these issues are already being addressed by the DARPA Advanced Defense Research Directorate, which continues to implement the PROTEUS (Prototype Resilient Operations Testbed for Expeditionary Urban Scenarios) program aimed at identifying and adapting modern commercial technologies for the armed forces operating in such conditions.

According to the Office, due to the fact that state and non-state actors continue to use their own new technologies, expeditionary forces are faced with "a decrease in advantages in future potential military conflicts, which are likely to be waged in coastal (coastal) cities."

“The aim of the PROTEUS program is to create and demonstrate tools for developing and testing concepts of maneuverable expeditionary urban operations based on dynamically assembled temporary combined arms groups”,

- says the DARPA document, which also lists specific areas of interest.

These include the development of software to support the real-time organization of operational groups, weapons and equipment, as well as tactics, methods and methods of warfare suitable for the armed forces operating in densely populated localities in the years 2030-2040.

Another area is the development of virtual test conditions with the goal of “testing and demonstrating these capabilities” through the detailed reproduction of urban combat space.

These tests will demonstrate that the ability to dynamically shape the structure, capabilities and tactics of a small unit allows you to dramatically obtain excellent performance in combat conditions, expressed by parameters such as fire efficiency, combat stability and economic feasibility.

In case of successful results, the software tools and concepts developed in the PROTEUS program will allow to evaluate and apply new approaches to combined arms operations, including coordination of the damaging effects in various environments.


Significant experience for developing future tactics in the urban environment was gained during the operations of 2017 to liberate the Iraqi city of Mosul from IS fighters (prohibited in the Russian Federation)

In December 2019, the DARPA Office issued Cole Engineering Services a $ 2,3 million contract to support PROTEUS. The official announcement of the contract described how the company will perform R&D while achieving the objectives of the first phase of the program.

The claimed work includes the organization of a repository of parametric data of models, the nature of their change, tactics, methods and methods that will be demonstrated in a series of exercises of the US Marine Corps.

The U.S. Army's Information and Intelligence Directorate (I2WD) also considers combined operations in a variety of settings, including urban warfare, with particular attention to the development of “universal” sensor packages for collecting information that can be integrated into inhabited and uninhabited platforms.

According to a general statement by I2WD, the Army Intelligence and Information Communications Communications Management Center is developing a number of new technologies with the goal of increasing the efficiency of tasks performed by dismounted small units involved in urban operations.

According to the statement, the work includes "the development and testing of experimental devices and subsystems and potential interfaces in existing and / or future configurations in a simulated operational environment."

As a result, the army is considering a number of sensory systems in order to improve and shorten the cycles of target determination by end users using the “sensor-sensor” and “sensor-shooter” circuits. In many respects, these efforts are focused on the size, mass, energy consumption and communication organization.

Lessons learned


The need for new principles of combat use, tactical techniques and methods, and the material part to support future urban operations has been clearly identified in the conflicts of recent years, especially in the Middle East and Southeast Asia.

In 2017, Iraqi security forces from the Counter-Terrorism Service, supported by the international community, conducted various urban operations during the liberation of the Iraqi city of Mosul.

According to the US Department of Defense, published in 2018, during this campaign, Iraqi special operations forces suffered 40% of “combat losses,” which included tactical vehicles, weapons, other materiel, and wounded and killed.

In these operations, the Iraqi forces and Kurdish formations performed a variety of tasks, the ultimate goal of which was to clean and retain the territory previously occupied by the Islamic State. They had to clean underground tunnel complexes mined with improvised devices, designed for the secretive penetration of small groups with weapons and IEDs.


Iraqi special forces work out tactics of conducting urban combat in the city of Mosul, which was liberated from the Islamic State in 2017

The Philippine armed forces are also seriously studying the experience of urban battles gained in the battle for the city of Malawi.

Throughout the second half of 2017, the army of the Philippines conducted operations against extremist organizations in this city. One of the senior officers told how the power units, adjusting to the real situation, were forced to "innovatively and on the fly" to retreat from combat manuals and instructions, change the purpose of weapons, as well as tactics and methods of warfare.

An example is the use of 105-mm artillery for direct fire at close range from militants who are seated in buildings. The calculations of the Philippine army used homemade sighting devices made from boxes of noodles and threads, which acted as sighting devices. In addition, in close combat at distances of up to 50 meters, 12,7 mm heavy machine guns were also used.

Filipino army units also pre-installed M111 armored personnel carriers as high as possible, including on the ground floors of buildings with large openings in order to give the commander and crew a better view of the battlefield, since the field of view of personnel and sensors is significantly deteriorated in high-rise buildings .

Debris that appeared after the fighting was used to protect the movement of their forces from snipers, in turn, the militants often used the local population as a human shield.

Preparation for victory


The armed forces of Singapore, who have established close contacts with the Philippine army, are trying to take a lot from this experience.

In June last year, the Singapore army spoke in detail about plans to build a “next-generation smart training center” to meet the future operational needs of small units preparing for military operations in human settlements.

According to the Singapore Army, the concept of the city SAFTI City provides for the modernization of the existing training center for urban combat, built in the 90s, which, according to the command, no longer meets modern requirements and trends.

The existing center (a group of low-rise buildings recreating traditional shops with living quarters but without monitoring equipment) provided operational needs until the beginning of 2000. An army spokesman emphasized that they want to create "the best training ground for combat training in the city to successfully cope with the new threats and challenges that Singapore faces today."

The SAFTI City concept, first introduced in 2017 to the Secretary of Defense, should be phased in starting in 2023. The joint development of the Singapore Army and the Office of Defense Science and Technology will "meet the evolving defense needs of the army and provide training for a wide variety of operations, both peacetime and military."

According to the plans, at the first stage of the program more than 70 buildings will be built including three 12-story apartment buildings, underground structures and training grounds for preparing for the urban war with a total area of ​​more than 107 thousand m2. After completion of the first stage, the training camp will initially be able to provide training at the brigade level.


The Singapore Army will soon have at its disposal a specialized training center for urban combat, which will provide commanders with a flexible and modular space to meet future operational needs

Among the main features of the future campus is an integrated transport hub, including a bus station, a metro station with several exits to the surface, high-rise buildings connected by crossings, densely populated neighborhoods and a developed road network, as well as a number of public places, including shopping centers, which will recreate "Realistic and complex training conditions."

The city will also have several buildings and road networks being reconstructed, which will make it possible to change the layout every time personnel arrive for training in order to exclude any possibility of successfully predicting the situation and scenario during the period of complex preparation.

The official statement said that “these activities will include national security operations, counter-terrorism and rescue operations. SAFTI City infrastructure will provide realistic and complex, but interesting conditions for training soldiers. ”

The project will also use a lot of smart technologies designed to improve learning ability and increase the effectiveness of programs. An example is clever targets that can maneuver across the battlefield, as well as return fire at trained soldiers. Technologies will also be integrated to create various effects on the battlefield, including smoke and explosion simulators to enhance realism during training scenarios.

Finally, in the town of SAFTI City, technologies for analyzing data from multiple cameras will also be used, which will allow in real time to interrupt the work of the fighters participating in the scenario in case of improper actions or critical situations.

“The training process will be compared and processed by the analytical system in order to provide students with accurate information on their individual actions and actions in the group,” the Singapore Army said in a statement. - With integrated gamification in the training process and detailed individual reports, individual soldiers and groups will be able to compare their actions, which will motivate them to further improve. These technological improvements will enable the army to conduct training more efficiently and rationally. ”

Generation "NEXT"


As the armed forces strive to maximize their effectiveness in order to successfully carry out future urban operations, they seriously rely on new technologies in combination with developing principles of combat employment and tactical methods, methods and methods of warfare.

Examples include the NEO (Hyper-Enabled Operator, loosely translated “Enhanced Military Personnel”) US Special Forces Command, which was officially launched at the SOFIC Florida in May 2019 as the successor to the six-year TALOS (Tactical Assault Light Operator Suit).

The NEO program will use many technologies developed for the TALOS project. which was launched in 2013. Its goal was to increase fire efficiency, combat stability, mobility and communication capabilities of the MTR, conducting raids in the urban environment.

TALOS was stuck in problems because the JATF Joint Task Force supported the design and development of an exoskeleton that would carry various loads and move unhindered across a complex battlefield in populated areas.

The JATF Director explained his desire to provide operators with as much information as possible without the risk of any cognitive overload during complex tasks.

War in the city: the inevitable scenario of the future

The command continues to develop its concept of Hyper-Enabled Operator, which is the successor to the existing TALOS project, which is aimed at enhancing the capabilities of the MTR personnel conducting combat operations in urban environments

“The availability of new technologies gives our rivals the ability to predict and act faster than us. We, of course, must be ahead and surpass all their capabilities. "We must also understand the importance of providing as much information as possible to our soldiers at the forefront."

JATF Director says:

“Although we want to have as much data as possible, we must manage it efficiently and limit it; it is necessary to translate this gigantic amount of data into information that the operator needs in a given form, at the exact time and in the exact place. The group must quickly and efficiently use information for forecasting and actions, while using the decentralized flexibility of the MTR. ”

The JATF Group continues to explore solutions that enable combat units to operate effectively in urban space, based on four “technical pillars”: mergers and augmented data; increased channel bandwidth in both directions; advanced computerization; and human machine interfaces.

New advanced concepts include: unification of personnel and automated operational control centers into a single network with the addition of machine learning and artificial intelligence algorithms, as well as the use of light off-road vehicles MRZR-4 Light Tactical All-Terrain Vehicle with integrated satellite antennas to create " reliable and highly efficient computer components needed for machine learning and artificial intelligence systems installed on small vehicles. ”

See through


Another interesting area is wall perception technology, which was demonstrated at the Association of the US Army in Washington in October 2019.

This is the Lumineye Lux ultra-wideband (UWB) radar company, which is designed for tasks such as making passages in buildings, detecting false walls and secret rooms, monitoring through shaded windows, and cynological calculation operations.

The end-user device can also work remotely so that assault groups can remain in cover while conducting surveillance and reconnaissance. Lux Radar is currently being considered by the US MTR Command as one of the candidates.

Iceni Labs' SafeScan Tactical handheld device (or wall monitor) is evaluated by MTR units of an unnamed European country, NATO. The final product with a high level of technological readiness should be shown this year, which will give the assault groups an ultra-wideband radar capable of detecting living creatures behind the walls. The company is also exploring the possibility of integrating this stenovizor into the broader combat control solutions available on the market.

Military operations in settlements remain for commanders one of the most difficult in the entire modern combat space. At the current pace of technology development and increasing the likelihood of a collision with equal rivals, their importance will only grow in the future. The command of the armed forces, as well as the defense industry of Western countries, should now think hard about this.
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  1. sen
    sen April 27 2020 05: 31 New
    +2
    Today the most promising for combat in the city is the use of drones. For example, a flying platform armed with 60-mm disposable grenade launchers for firing them from outside the building into the "necessary" windows. Ground robots for working directly in buildings and underground communications - they must go ahead of the fighters and take the first blow on themselves.
    A demolition robot armed with a powerful 300 mm rocket with a range of 500 m to destroy buildings. A BA armed with a 57 mm cannon and possessing, thanks to sensors and a computer, a short reaction time to short-term targets.
    1. Private-K
      Private-K April 27 2020 11: 29 New
      +3
      Have you seen how cleverly people shoot at targets such as "flying saucer"? At the same time, the saucer flies quickly and is in the visibility sector for several seconds ...
      A drone with grenade launchers will be shot down. For he flies slowly, sadly, with hovering; he will fly up, look for the desired "window", aim - from tens of seconds to several minutes. Two mediocre shooters will confidently take it out of ordinary machines.

      As the experience of the Israeli Armed Forces, in urban hostilities, the main thing was:
      a) intelligence (and here in this - drones to help), including undercover
      b) careful selection of targets (objects) for strike / raid / attack
      c) the maximum measures to save their l / s - the maximum reduction in the risk of being hit by fire, etc.
      d) do not cling to the terrain (objects) and maneuver - do not let the company determine your location
      e) the use of high-precision "smart" means of destruction is maximized ...

      But, by and large, no one now knows how it will fight in large cities.
      Especially, in the absence of the ability to concentrate tens of thousands of foot soldiers as it was in WWII.
      And especially, especially when pr-ki will have approximate technological and power equality.
      Sluggish, months-long "platoon wars" as in Syria is not an indicator. And just one example of how it happens. Just like the American assaults on Mosul and so on. Iraqi ones.
      1. not main
        not main April 27 2020 22: 57 New
        +3
        Quote: Private-K
        Have you seen how cleverly people shoot at targets such as "flying saucer"? At the same time, the saucer flies quickly and is in the visibility sector for several seconds ...
        A drone with grenade launchers will be shot down. For he flies slowly, sadly, with hovering; he will fly up, look for the desired "window", aim - from tens of seconds to several minutes. Two mediocre shooters will confidently take it out of ordinary machines.

        But I do not agree with this statement! Firstly, they shoot at the plates from a shotgun at a distance of 35 meters, shoot with a shot that has a placer at such a distance. And machine guns fire bullets. According to one line, even if we take into account the distance, we can safely say that a platoon of machine gunners is not able to destroy a drone with guarantee!
        1. dali
          dali 2 June 2020 10: 10 New
          0
          Quote: non-primary
          According to one line, even if we take into account the distance, we can safely say that a platoon of machine gunners is not able to destroy a drone with guarantee!

          Why are you talking about machine gunners ?.
          Do you know about snipers? A shooter who knows how to use sniper weapons is not known to you?
          A sniper, not even the most "sniper", can handle it calmly ...
    2. georgiigennadievitch
      georgiigennadievitch April 30 2020 15: 38 New
      0
      Some kind of confusion and nonsense. Manilovism. In any case, battalion tactical groups will be the basis for fighting in the city. Another thing is that they must be seriously reinforced in advance for the period of battles in the settlement. By sapper units, artillery, army aviation, including drones, tanks, which must act as mobile firearms as part of mixed units, chemists (flamethrowers + smoke directors ), etc. If there is a possibility of using combat robots, then they must be used. But the question arises, are there such units to be reinforced for the period of warfare in settlements and if they are, then where are they? Since the organization had a divisional base, almost everything could be found there. And in the brigades ?? It is difficult to imagine how and in what time the necessary reinforcement will be organized, for example, from units of army subordination to strengthen the BTG for storming cities. Where, for example, are the units of combat robots and attack drones that are supposed to support highly motivated dismounted motorized riflemen? The necessary equipment and special units to enhance the attacking power of the BTG for conducting highly probable military operations in large and small settlements. Conduct exercises to storm settlements. Experienced at first, and then on the basis of the experience and recommendations gained everywhere. We must not build "projectiles", but preparing for hostilities in the city is purposeful, persistent and very serious.
  2. Maki Avellevich
    Maki Avellevich April 27 2020 05: 36 New
    +3
    Thank you.
    in principle with cities today as with fortresses at Sin Zi. go around and not storm!
    There are many ways to make the enemy stop holding the defenses of a city that are many times better than ungrateful city battles.
    1. vomag
      vomag April 27 2020 06: 09 New
      +5
      Quote: Maki Avellievich
      go around and not storm

      Yeah, to leave the enemy’s group in the rear ... so that they would later cut off your communications? ..... yes, I’m really excited !! let the Chinese do it ....
      1. Maki Avellevich
        Maki Avellevich April 27 2020 21: 31 New
        +1
        Quote: vomag
        Yeah, to leave the enemy’s group in the rear ... so that they would later cut off your communications? ..... yes, I’m really excited !!

        neither I, nor the Chinese general, much less comrade Thomas Lawrence, offered
        to leave the enemy group in the rear ...

        assault on the forehead is usually stupid. having hit in the direction archival for the enemy, even if it’s at least a thousand miles, you can force him to leave the defense on an important site for you and transfer the soldiers there.
        he can do this even by understanding your game as he has no better alternative.
        for example the battles of the British with Hitler in Africa. At that moment, the British wanted to sneeze at their problems in Africa and Israel. but their actions forced Hitler to spend resources away from Europe.

        ps Napoleon in my opinion somewhere and someone said - I won only by marches.
    2. awdrgy
      awdrgy April 27 2020 10: 03 New
      +4
      I agree There will not be enough food in a modern city for a long time, and even more so water (this is not a town 200 years ago where everyone has wells and mini gardens under the windows). It's another matter when the front line is solid and the city is its strong points, but it seems that this is an unlikely scenario (this is what line of defense and the terrain should be so that the strong point would be its weak point?) If only like in the Second World War when impassable swamps are all around? In a time pressure situation and as an exception, an assault can probably take place (again, with a lack of firepower necessary for the complete destruction of the enemy's OP) On the other hand, "cleanup" (which is 100 percent necessary) And here, of course, all this "expensive equipment" can come in handy But not to army but to police units (although in the event of a conflict with the storming of cities and breakthroughs of the defense line, they will be supplied on a leftover basis) It can be concluded that all this equipment is needed to fight terrorists (only some kind of "strange terrorists" who seize cities, but this is a separate topic)
    3. Normal ok
      Normal ok April 27 2020 14: 35 New
      +3
      There are already huge agglomerations in terms of area, in which tens of millions of people live. The article predicts that urbanization will go even further in the future. Simply "bypassing" a city the size of the Moscow region and with a population of 20-30 million will no longer be the right decision.
      1. ccsr
        ccsr April 27 2020 17: 10 New
        0
        Quote: Normal ok
        Simply "bypassing" a city the size of the Moscow region and with a population of 20-30 million will no longer be the right decision.

        But if you deliver a few tactical nuclear strikes against such an agglomeration, and especially against targets with great technological consequences, I assure you, you won’t need to take the city anymore - the people will simply sweep away everything in a panic and leave it. An example is the earthquake in Spitak and a man-made accident at the Chagino electrical substation in Moscow, when it became clear how the population behaves in the event of large-scale shocks. So the need to take cities by storm of troops will disappear by itself, and this is obvious.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov April 27 2020 17: 18 New
          0
          Quote: ccsr
          But if you inflict several tactical nuclear strikes on such an agglomeration

          For example, in Tbilisi. Or in Mariupol ....
          Then they will devour us.
          General.
          1. ccsr
            ccsr April 27 2020 17: 52 New
            0
            Quote: Spade
            For example, in Tbilisi. Or in Mariupol ....

            Do not rush to extremes - these are not those goals for us.
            Quote: Spade
            Then they will devour us.

            I do not know your age, but if you are not fifty, then I think with an average life expectancy you will still see the use of nuclear weapons, even if not on our side. The world, and especially the Americans, is moving towards this and this process cannot be stopped. I do not exclude the possibility that the Middle East will be the first focus, although this may happen elsewhere after a major 9/11 terrorist attack.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov April 27 2020 17: 54 New
              +1
              Quote: ccsr
              I do not know your age, but if you are not fifty, then I think with an average life expectancy you will still see the use of nuclear weapons, even if not on our side.

              What's the difference?
              We can’t use it against non-nuclear countries. Reinforced concrete fact.

              Quote: ccsr
              Do not rush to extremes - these are not those goals for us.

              8)))
              These are the most probable "points of application" of the RF Armed Forces.
              Georgia, Ukraine, the likelihood of a war in Moldova has significantly decreased, but remains non-zero.
              Plus, the possibility of drawing into conflict over Karabakh and Central Asia. But in these cases, I do not think that it will be necessary to storm large cities.
              1. ccsr
                ccsr April 27 2020 18: 05 New
                0
                Quote: Spade
                We can’t use it against non-nuclear countries. Reinforced concrete fact.

                This is not a fact, but our obligations under international treaties, which can be poher, as the Americans do in relation to our agreements with them.
                Putin made it clear that we will not stop using nuclear weapons in the event of a threat to our country, and draw a conclusion from this. Have you heard anything like this in the speeches of the general secretaries? Here is the perspective for us.
                Quote: Spade
                These are the most probable "points of application" of the RF Armed Forces.

                They will easily get by with non-nuclear weapons of increased power, which will be used according to the Belgrade scenario and this will end the whole war.
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov April 27 2020 18: 13 New
                  +1
                  Quote: ccsr
                  This is not a fact, but our obligations.

                  It is a fact. And it's not about obligations.
                  You yourself are aware of this.

                  Quote: ccsr
                  They will easily get by with non-nuclear weapons of increased power, which will be used according to the Belgrade scenario and this will end the whole war.

                  Again, Russia cannot afford such a thing.
                  1. ccsr
                    ccsr April 27 2020 18: 25 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Spade
                    You yourself are aware of this.

                    No, I don’t realize, because I’m sure that we won’t stop delivering a preventive nuclear strike - we learned the lessons of 1941 well.
                    Quote: Spade
                    Again, Russia cannot afford such a thing.

                    I don’t know where you got such confidence from, especially after 08.08.08, when we were in a worse situation than now.
                    1. Lopatov
                      Lopatov April 27 2020 18: 28 New
                      0
                      Quote: ccsr
                      No, I don’t realize, because I’m sure that we will not stop from delivering a preventive nuclear strike

                      For NATO countries, yes. In Ukraine or Georgia, no

                      Quote: ccsr
                      I don’t know where you got such confidence from, especially after 08.08.08/XNUMX/XNUMX

                      Especially after the August 2008 war. How much money did we have to clean up even though we were absolutely right? And after all, in the end, they blamed generally delusional things Like "genocide", which was expressed in the fact that the Kudar people put empty Georgian villages under a bulldozer
          2. Andrey Usachevhj33z67z2hb
            Andrey Usachevhj33z67z2hb April 30 2020 15: 24 New
            0
            Are you arranging a nuclear war here !? stop
    4. Leomobil
      Leomobil 1 May 2020 18: 06 New
      0
      There was no internet or telephone between Chinese cities, but they explain "HYBRID WARS" to you in Russian in urban settings.
  3. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins April 27 2020 06: 17 New
    +3
    I doubt the estimates that 90 percent of the population will live in cities. In the USSR, the village was "buried" in the 60s and 70s. The songs were sung "electricity will give us vodka with sausage ...", And then it turned out that without a village, as without water, there is neither here nor there ... Again, on the territory of the former USSR there is a "tradition" of moving to old age closer to the earth ...
    Well, I don’t say anything about individual agricultural countries ...
    1. Doccor18
      Doccor18 April 27 2020 07: 21 New
      +8
      I don’t know who is moving closer to the land there, soon we will have one regional center from 20-30 km from the region. suburban belt. Everyone is eager for the city. Not only the villages, but also the regional centers are steadily declining. There is no work, salaries are scanty. All young people leave school after school and do not return. It's hard to say about the world, but in our country in 20 years, more than 90% will live in cities and more.
      As for urban battles, it is a difficult, slow and costly task. In my opinion, for a soldier who "will go to the city"
      need new equipment to protect the body, especially the legs. A huge number of improvised explosive devices will bear its terrible fruits - a large number of injuries. Bulletproof vests are not like vests, but like suits, from a special material that is not very restrictive of movement.
  4. Pashhenko Nikolay
    Pashhenko Nikolay April 27 2020 07: 22 New
    +5
    In a war, the cities will be either wiped off or blocked until the victorious end. How long will a modern city last without light and water, without food supplies? And the more it is, the faster it will suffocate in its own sewage.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov April 27 2020 08: 28 New
      +2
      Quote: Pashhenko Nikolay
      In a war, the cities will be either wiped off or blocked until the victorious end. How long will a modern city last without light and water, without food supplies? And the more it is, the faster it will suffocate in its own sewage.

      I’m afraid it’s not our method to try to make the enemy an analogue of the Blockade of Leningrad. Civilians will have to be released through humanitarian corridors. The remaining defenders will receive enough resources for a long defense
      We, in turn, will have to keep a large group of troops around the city. Long time
      1. Sergey Valov
        Sergey Valov April 27 2020 09: 06 New
        0
        For defense, first of all, ammunition and food are needed. A complete blockade deprives both of them of supply, and these are non-renewable resources. But the most important thing is water. Deprive the city of water and in two - three weeks it is yours. If the city is on the river, it is necessary to destroy the treatment facilities, then dysentery and your city.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov April 27 2020 09: 11 New
          -2
          Quote: Sergey Valov
          For defense, first of all, ammunition and food are needed.

          Both that, and another is.
          You do not forget, our units are blocking. instead of fighting in the city. So the defenders will spend a minimum of ammunition. And food will be a rampart.

          Quote: Sergey Valov
          But the most important thing is water.

          To drill a number of wells, and this is enough for the defenders.

          Quote: Sergey Valov
          If the city is on the river, it is necessary to destroy the treatment facilities, then dysentery and your city.

          You apparently read through the line.
          In the city there is no peace. He stepped through humanitarian corridors. Therefore, the lack of sewage is not critical for them.
          1. Sergey Valov
            Sergey Valov April 27 2020 09: 22 New
            +2
            “There is both.” - have you brought them in echelons in advance? Or were they preparing for a siege before the war? wink
            “To drill a certain number of wells, and this will be enough for the defenders”
            Than to drill, who will drill, etc. This is not a computer game.
            “There is no peacekeeper in the city. He stepped through humanitarian corridors. Therefore, the lack of sewage is not critical for them. ” “Have you ever drunk raw water from a puddle?” About boiling at the stake is not necessary, the war is not a picnic in nature.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov April 27 2020 09: 41 New
              0
              Quote: Sergey Valov
              “There is both.” - have you brought them in echelons in advance?

              Food remained from the pit. and a lot of ammunition is not needed.

              Quote: Sergey Valov
              Than to drill, who will drill, etc.

              Hello. have arrived ...
              I studied at a military school. Artillery. And there, at one of the classes, we practiced well drilling under water and the MTK-2 installation


              Quote: Sergey Valov
              About boiling at the stake is not necessary, the war is not a picnic in nature.

              Why at the stake? We had a field kitchen
              laughing
              1. Sergey Valov
                Sergey Valov April 27 2020 10: 52 New
                +1
                “Food remained from the laity. and there isn’t much ammunition needed ”- proceed from the fact that practically nothing will remain. In cities, food supplies usually do not exceed a two-week norm, so estimate when the decision to evacuate should be made, how soon it should be carried out, how much food to hand in to each evacuated person, and in general whether there are warehouses. As for ammunition, they need a lot, a lot. For if the defenders do not respond to enemy fire, then their fighting spirit will drop to zero very quickly with all the consequences.
                “We practiced drilling a well under water and an MTK-2 installation” - I dare not doubt it, but where do we get the drilling rigs and pipes to them? What will you pump water with? Electricity will be turned off before the blockade. Liquid fuel will run out very quickly. An adversary will destroy your rigs first and foremost, they cannot be hidden under a roof. I’m silent that it’s one thing to go to school, something else to put into practice.
                “We had a field kitchen” - you had in peacetime, but will it be surrounded? Almost any environment is a mess.
                And there are still questions, for example - why leave the city with a garrison in the upcoming blockade, how to organize the evacuation of the population, how to explain to the population the expulsion of it from houses to a clean field ???
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov April 27 2020 17: 32 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Sergey Valov
                  proceed from the fact that practically nothing will remain. In cities, food supplies typically do not exceed two weeks

                  Again. the peasant leaves. When ten thousand tries to devour something that is stocked up by 500 thousand for two weeks ... Will you count it yourself?

                  Quote: Sergey Valov
                  For if the defenders do not respond to enemy fire

                  Excuse me, will they also block fire?
                  Will there be enough troops?

                  Quote: Sergey Valov
                  “We practiced drilling a well under water and an MTK-2 installation” - I dare not doubt it, but where do we get the drilling rigs and pipes to them? What will you pump water with? Electricity will be turned off before the blockade. Liquid fuel will run out very quickly.

                  Pancake. But would you even google ...



                  Quote: Sergey Valov
                  do not hide them under the roof.

                  They were hidden in trenches at one time



                  Quote: Sergey Valov
                  “We had a field kitchen” - you had in peacetime,

                  No. The second is Chechen. "war is not a picnic in nature," but we boiled the water. A field kitchen, tablets from dry rations, on stoves in tents. In short, they did without bonfires. Plus aquatabs and pantocid

                  Quote: Sergey Valov
                  And there are still questions, for example - why leave the city with a garrison in the upcoming blockade,

                  Because every person in the besieged city will distract dozens of opponents.
                  1. Sergey Valov
                    Sergey Valov April 27 2020 18: 04 New
                    -1
                    “Excuse me, will they block the fire?” - we are considering a war, or a computer game.
                    “The second Chechen. "war is not a picnic in nature," but we boiled water "- now I understand that you are considering the situation from the side of the besiegers. Inside it will be different.
                    1. Lopatov
                      Lopatov April 27 2020 18: 09 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Sergey Valov
                      “Excuse me, will they block the fire?” - we are considering a war, or a computer game.

                      We are considering the option "surround and then they themselves will surrender"

                      Quote: Sergey Valov
                      You are considering the situation from the besiegers. Inside will be different.

                      Are you sure that we will need to fight exclusively with someone like Chechen fighters? The same Georgians in some things were equipped much better than units 58A
                      1. Sergey Valov
                        Sergey Valov April 27 2020 22: 52 New
                        -1
                        “We are considering the option of" surrounding and then they will surrender themselves "" - personally, I do not even consider such an option, it is not realistic.
                        “In some things” - so what? The combination of factors, the overall potential, and not the particular one, wins.
                      2. Lopatov
                        Lopatov April 27 2020 23: 07 New
                        0
                        Quote: Sergey Valov
                        I personally do not consider this option closely, it’s not real.

                        So you initially did not understand the essence of the dispute.
                        It's about blockade.
                        Which is definitely counterproductive. Even when there are many "extra troops".

                        That is, the option "not to storm" is unrealistic.
        2. Pashhenko Nikolay
          Pashhenko Nikolay April 27 2020 13: 20 New
          0
          The great war is not a counter-terrorism operation. There will be no humanitarian corridors. Those who did not have time to evacuate, only hope for a bomb shelter. But they will still want to drink and eat.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov April 27 2020 17: 16 New
            0
            Quote: Pashhenko Nikolay
            There will be no humanitarian corridors.

            Will be. Nowhere to go.
          2. Sergey Valov
            Sergey Valov April 27 2020 17: 45 New
            0
            “There will be no humanitarian corridors.” - That's for sure, the concept of “civilian population” is beautiful from the UN rostrum, and when this civilian population shoots you in the back, supplies the enemy’s personnel, feeds the enemy’s army, produces weapons for the enemy, then there’s no sentiment.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov April 27 2020 18: 11 New
              0
              Quote: Sergey Valov
              the concept of "civilian population" is beautiful from the UN rostrum

              The concept "there is no time for sentimentality" is only beautiful in Internet discussions.
              In real life, Russia cannot afford to care so much about the "right of war"
              1. Sergey Valov
                Sergey Valov April 27 2020 22: 47 New
                -1
                As I understand it, not local wars are discussed here, but global, such as Russia-NATO, without the use of nuclear weapons, and the question will be about the survival of the state. In such a war, any state will spit on everything, just to win.
                In a local war, a siege of cities with a population of hundreds of thousands of people is impossible.
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov April 27 2020 23: 04 New
                  0
                  Quote: Sergey Valov
                  global, like Russia-NATO, without nuclear weapons

                  No. We can’t pull a war with NATO without a nuclear war, and also an offensive one. We don’t have that kind of money

                  Quote: Sergey Valov
                  In a local war, a siege of cities with a population of hundreds of thousands of people is impossible.

                  At the beginning of the first Chechen, Grozny was a city with a population of 360 thousand, the second Chechen - about 160 thousand.
                  1. Sergey Valov
                    Sergey Valov April 28 2020 08: 06 New
                    -1
                    “We can’t pull a war against NATO without nuclear weapons, and also an offensive one. We don’t have that kind of money ”- firstly I wrote“ like NATO ”, and secondly what does the money have to do with it, they are fighting with resources.
                    “Grozny was a city” - Grozny was not blocked.
                    1. ccsr
                      ccsr April 28 2020 10: 40 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Sergey Valov
                      “Grozny was a city” - Grozny was not blocked.

                      Moreover, many simply do not understand that it was a Russian city, and did not belong to the enemy country, which is why they clucked with it, pitying local citizens. The Americans in Iraq and Yugoslavia showed how to destroy those who do not want to surrender, and for this they did not use the blockade, but ordinary bombing with all possible means and, if possible, avoided direct clashes of ground forces. So we should act in this way if our politicians once again have a desire to help someone, although I believe that we should not do this for the sake of anyone.
                    2. Sergey Valov
                      Sergey Valov April 28 2020 17: 38 New
                      -1
                      I totally agree.
  5. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins April 27 2020 11: 54 New
    +1
    Mmm ... I thought about your words "not our method" ...
    There was one such blockade in the history of the USSR! During the Cold War, when West Berlin was blockaded! At that time, the Americans established the supply by air!
    1. vadim dok
      vadim dok April 27 2020 13: 48 New
      +1
      Moreover, the population of Berlin and Leningrad was the same, but coal had to be delivered to Berlin for thermal power plants and thermal power plants themselves, in addition, Berlin was completely in blockade, unlike Leningrad, which has access to Lake Ladoga! But there was no war and no one bombarded Berlin during the blockade!
    2. Lopatov
      Lopatov April 27 2020 17: 17 New
      0
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      There was one such blockade in the history of the USSR! During the Cold War, when West Berlin was blockaded!

      Leaving the air passage?
      This is not a blockade.
  • JonnyT
    JonnyT April 27 2020 09: 48 New
    +2
    [media = https: //m.youtube.com/watch? reload = 9 & v = OQu1XMq_0C8] All these strategies against the bare-assed Papuans using old small arms and grenade launchers, open communication channels, carrying a mobile phone with geolocation ....... ...
    Here is a filmman of 59 ....... even if they now face such enemy defense even with the technical equipment of 59, Talos will not help them
    And now there are electronic warfare, space reconnaissance, electromagnetic radiation, thermal imagers and 1000 ways to deal with them
  • dzvero
    dzvero April 27 2020 10: 13 New
    +3
    It is written well, in places it even smells of humanism, but the Americans nevertheless first raced Racca to the ground ...
    1. ccsr
      ccsr April 27 2020 11: 00 New
      +2
      Quote: dzvero
      It is written well, in places it even smells of humanism, but the Americans nevertheless first raced Racca to the ground ...

      Actually, the article is a set of some kind of manilism, and it is unlikely that our army will bother with how to conduct actions to seize the capitals of NATO states with conventional weapons.
      It is surprising that this report appeared in a certain non-military organization:
      Many of these issues were addressed in a research report published last December. University of Joint Special Operations (JSOU). It describes “the operational and political consequences of hostilities in densely populated urban areas”.

      Neither the authors of the report, nor any of the military structures funded all this, the author of the article presented, which means I assume that the paid order is being worked out normally.
      I don’t think that such studies will make any adjustments to the combat training plans of the armed forces of our country, because we will really be guided by only one thing - we are a nuclear power and we will solve all military issues based on its availability.
      I think that the Americans always remember this, and the fate of Raqqa showed that it is easier to destroy the whole city than to risk their military personnel.
      1. dzvero
        dzvero April 27 2020 11: 26 New
        +1
        That's it. In the "big war" no one will bother and run the risk of running into unnecessary losses. Carpet bombing, heavy artillery, tactical nuclear weapons ... (with two hundred guns per kilometer of the front, the enemy is not reported (c)) What is described in the article is more suitable for anti-terrorist operations and subsequent clearing. Or, as a last resort, in a "small war" against a deliberately weak enemy conducting semi-partisan actions.
  • Glory1974
    Glory1974 April 27 2020 10: 53 New
    +1
    the battle in the city is really very difficult to conduct, and especially to win. And here, not only Western countries need to think, but also to us. The experience of Grozny perfectly showed that not all statutory requirements can and should be fulfilled, although some remain an axiom.
    1. Sergey Valov
      Sergey Valov April 27 2020 17: 39 New
      -1
      Grozny is its own territory. In a foreign country, you can’t stand on ceremony.
      1. Glory1974
        Glory1974 April 28 2020 10: 38 New
        0
        Grozny is its own territory. In a foreign country, you can’t stand on ceremony.

        The fact of the matter is that the question is posed "How not to stand on ceremony?"
        That is, how to act in order to win with minimal losses.
        1. Sergey Valov
          Sergey Valov April 28 2020 17: 41 New
          -1
          Here on the forum you can theorize as much as you like, anyway in real life it will be different.
  • Ruslan
    Ruslan April 27 2020 11: 16 New
    +2
    with horror I represent the storming of New York, Moscow or Hong Kong. there probably is not enough army. it’s probably easier to make and throw a clean core as soon as possible. or bombs for the demolition of skyscrapers and deepening for burying the subway and all kinds of subways.
    For megacities, it’s obviously impossible to do without OMPs, for example, temporary chemical weapons.
  • Comrade Michael
    Comrade Michael April 27 2020 11: 18 New
    +3
    And everyone began to seriously discuss how they would take the city .... If only, if only .... Give siege weapons to whom, experience in Raqqa, to whom the Death Star .... Is this a resource for infantile adults? What cities are you going to take there, where ??? No matter how much no one theorizes, no one will ever be ready for anything, many will be in captivity of fantastic theories and pink elephants ... And only a few will orientate themselves, I know such devils, but they are not on the site ... And articles on how to survive a peaceful peasant and his children, if he does not want to participate in this "Zarnitsa" city, is there?
    1. Sergey Valov
      Sergey Valov April 27 2020 17: 37 New
      0
      "Are there any articles on how to survive for a peaceful peasant and his children, if he does not want to participate in this" Zarnitsa "city?" - there are articles, read. The main thesis is to get out of the city as early as possible.
  • WayKheThuo
    WayKheThuo April 27 2020 11: 49 New
    0
    I am not a military specialist, and perhaps my judgment will be very primitive and may even provoke a sharp reaction, but I would like to note the following:
    1. During the Second World War, and also, and especially during the Great Patriotic War (hereinafter - the Second World War), a huge number of cities were stormed. That is, city battles were not atypical. Moreover, even then, urban fighting was considered one of the most difficult. Nevertheless, the approach was typical: air raids, artillery preparation, the introduction of tanks with infantry support, and then to victory. And, surprisingly, operations of this kind did not last for years and months, as is happening now. For example, the famous Berlin operation was carried out from April 16.04 to May 02.05.1945, XNUMX. That is, in less than a month, the German defense was crushed in Berlin, the capital of the Reich. Make a notch for memory.
    2. During the Second World War, they took the city from the beginning, suppressed the enemy’s resistance, put a military commandant, and then, or a little earlier, began to engage in local residents - to feed, treat, save those who survived. That is, the destruction of the enemy was a priority.
    3. It is necessary to distinguish between a total war (country by country) and war with a separate group of terrorists - the scales are obviously different, however, in my opinion, the primary goal of both the first and second cases should be to destroy the enemy. And the faster, the better.
    4. The fate of civilians in military conflicts. I’ll say right away that I myself am a purely civilian person, and I don’t want to fall under the “distribution”, but I think that the faster the fighting, the greater the chances of survival of all free and involuntary participants in the conflict.

    Today, a lot, especially from the West, began to talk about the value of a single human life. Moreover, they began to elevate this value into a cult, especially the value of civilian life in war, and especially women and children. And everything seems to be correct, but let's look at it from the other side: on the example of the war in Syria, I often hear that a city there is not being captured because of the great crowding of civilians. Moreover, they negotiate with the terrorists, put them on buses and transport them to another city under guard (!) And with their families. Then a truce is concluded, aha “truce”, and then, suddenly (who would have imagined, yes ?!) everything begins in a new way and again a war and again the military and civilians perish and so on without end. For some reason, God forgive me, the middle village, lost in the desert, will be “fighting” for months, and sometimes for years (!!). But as soon as the military truly, without jokes, begins a real assault on the militants, a howl rises to heaven about the killed civilians. Well, you got it.
    How long do you think the Berlin operation would last in modern conditions?
    The modern world is a world of capital. Capital is, first and foremost, profit, and war is one of the most profitable business. Consequently, the longer the war lasts, the more money it will receive. And in this vein, the officially declared value of the life of civilians, which means mine and my family, is not humanism, but just one of the components of a business plan called "War", a mechanism that allows this bloody carousel to go on for many years.
    I think so.
  • dgonni
    dgonni April 27 2020 12: 52 New
    +1
    Why storm the big city as the author wrote? Turning off the electricity of water and sewage will ensure the exit of civilians during the week. For you need to eat and drink something. And let the goblins ride the catacombs.
  • Old26
    Old26 April 27 2020 13: 53 New
    +2
    Quote: vomag
    Yeah, to leave the enemy’s group in the rear ... so that they would later cut off your communications? ..... yes, I’m really excited !! let the Chinese do it ....

    And what group can be placed in the city? After all, no one says that the city was bypassed and left to its own devices. For this, rear guard troops can be used. In addition, no one will leave heavy weapons with the defenders of the city (or simply located there). The tanks will knock out, first of all, if possible, other armored vehicles ... And the rest will need to eat something. You won’t get hold of the locals especially, especially if they have spent enough time in this city. So its own reserves, which are also not unlimited.
  • Narak-zempo
    Narak-zempo April 27 2020 18: 03 New
    +1
    Blasting special ammunition 10-20 MT in TNT equivalent over the city makes the battle for him unnecessary.
    1. Grim Reaper
      Grim Reaper April 28 2020 13: 29 New
      0
      Quote: Narak-zempo
      Blasting special ammunition 10-20 MT in TNT equivalent over the city makes the battle for him unnecessary.

      For years to come. None of the conflicting parties. And the city makes it unnecessary for anyone.
      Ps. And 58 MT is better. wassat
  • Phoenix040
    Phoenix040 April 28 2020 20: 34 New
    +1
    It depends on who and with whom will fight. If it’s with a foreign state, then most likely they will use large-volume air-blast bombs, since no one needs someone else’s hostile population, and an intelligent person will not become a waste of their soldiers in urban battles, since it is easier to build a new city than to kill hundreds of thousands of soldiers with the storming of the city, which after urban battles will still have to be rebuilt
  • Eug
    Eug 14 July 2020 10: 55 New
    0
    Kamikaze reconnaissance robots, kamikaze drones as a variety, mine detectors, RPO, RPGs, heavy PP (if not piercing body armor, then definitely turning the enemy into a body immobile for a while) and transport robots to deliver all this to assault squads and take them out the wounded. As for me, the role of high-quality medical care right on the battlefield is growing sharply. Shatterproof protective suits for l / s. For more my imagination is not enough ...