Military Review

Note of protest. China claims in Kazakhstan

285

Anti-Chinese shares in the Republic of Kazakhstan in 2019. Source: i.ytimg.com


East is a delicate matter


"Why is Kazakhstan seeking to return to China." This was the name of the material of the major Sohu Internet portal (which is not related to the official position of the Chinese government). It would be more accurate to call sohu.com a blog platform on which almost every Chinese person can publish their views. But, nevertheless, the reaction to such material from Kazakhstan turned out to be quite harsh: on April 8, Chinese Ambassador Zhang Xiao was summoned to the Foreign Ministry to present a note of protest. The comments on the note diplomatically mention the inconsistency of the article with the “eternal” spirit of a comprehensive strategic partnership, reflected in the joint statement of the Republic of Kazakhstan and the People’s Republic of China. The partnership statement was signed by the heads of state on September 11, 2019. And this is all because of an article written by an unprofessional journalist. But it is worth paying tribute to the head of the Republic of Kazakhstan Kassym-Zhomart Tokaev, who did not overly dramatize the situation and bring it to the highest political level.


Chinese Ambassador Zhang Xiao (left) in a serious conversation with Kazakh officials. Source: gov.kz

The diplomats of Kazakhstan, obviously, had an opinion on the total control of the entire media sphere by the Communist Party of the PRC, which implies the tacit approval of material on territorial claims. Beijing analyst Sheng Siyu reasonably reproaches the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Kazakhstan in this regard, pointing out that there is still a certain level of liberalism in the Chinese press. Therefore, do not directly connect the provocative statements with the official policies of Beijing. There is a border officially approved under Nazarbayev, and everything else is just the speculation of journalists who want to cheaply earn fame. Sheng Siyu, besides this, now offers to apologize to the leadership of Kazakhstan for a surge of xenophobia in the country, which the expert has been seeing for many years. It should be noted separately that intolerance of Chinese economic and political influence among Kazakhs is already noticeable even at the international level. So, last fall, in Nur-Sultan, Alma-Ata, Karaganda, Shimkent, Aktobe and Zhanaozen, citizens took to the streets with the slogans "No expansion of China." The main question for the authorities was: “Why is the government intentionally driving residents into financial dependence on such a powerful neighbor, allowing them to build Chinese plants, factories, and power plants in Kazakhstan?” If we touch upon the much less well-off Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan, then everything is clear - without the Chinese yuan nothing would be built at all. But Kazakhstan is a rich country, and the money of the Middle Kingdom is not entirely appropriate here. This, obviously, is about the 2015 intergovernmental agreement, according to which Beijing is investing about $ 27 billion in the economy of Kazakhstan.


Source: ia-centr.ru

And this is not the first popular speech. In 2016, there was dissatisfaction with land reforms, during which it was allegedly planned to allow the Chinese to buy land. The most interesting thing is that last year’s performance in six cities of Kazakhstan was successfully planned before the official visit of President Kasym-Zhomart Tokayev to Beijing. The influence of certain forces within the republic, dissatisfied with the monopoly of Nur Sultan on the money and resources of China, is obvious. Local bai would be much calmer if the capital allowed the regional elites to work independently with Chinese investors. In the worst traditions of Central Asia, this would be accompanied by bribery, nepotism and bribes. And the ground for the incitement of the population to such performances in Kazakhstan is. Director of the Risk Assessment Group Dosym Satpayev says in this regard:

“Anti-Chinese sentiment is not going anywhere. Moreover, of all the countries of Central Asia, it is precisely in Kazakhstan that anti-Chinese sentiments have deeper roots. And since the national-patriotic mood in Kazakhstan is strengthening, namely, they have traditionally been based on several important promises, one of which is that China is more a threat than an opportunity for Kazakhstan, anti-Chinese sentiments will grow. According to the radical wing of the national patriots, in the future, in addition to economic expansion, China will try to realize its military and political interests in Kazakhstan, as is now the case in Tajikistan. The geopolitical formula "first comes the priest, then the merchant, then the soldier" works. "

Thus, in Kazakhstani society, the impression is made of the concessions made by Nur-Sultan for the sake of good relations with Beijing. And weakness is a bad ally in the East. And here comes an article in Sohu, “Why Kazakhstan Tends to Return to China” ...

Is Kazakhstan a part of China?


Now the reason for such a quick and harsh reaction of the official Nur-Sultan to an insignificant article becomes clear. A heated anti-Chinese audience just give the right reason for excitement. The provocative Sohu was well suited for this role. Hence the note of protest, and the conversation with the ambassador in compliance with all anti-epidemiological conventions. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the republic seemed to make it clear to citizens: we noticed, we warned, let them know our tough stance. And around what, in fact, a scandal broke out? It is all a matter of the impenetrable Dzungarian Khanate, which in the XVII-XVIII centuries fought, it seems, with everyone. First with Kazakh tribes, then with China, and often with both at the same time. I must say, they fought well. At a certain point, according to the author of Sohu, the Dzungars from the Kazakhs managed to recapture the territory of Middle Zhuz. At the same time, the Younger and part of the Elder Zhuz of the Kazakhs went to Russia.

Note of protest. China claims in Kazakhstan

Dzungarian Khanate. Source: wikipedia.org

In 1757, Dzungaria fell before the Chinese Empire, and the territory of the so-called Semirechye near Balkhash passed to Beijing. They even managed to include the new territory in the Xinjiang province, but failed to gain a foothold on it, it was gradually occupied by the Kazakhs. This is precisely the reason why, in the author’s opinion, it is worth thinking about territorial claims against Kazakhstan. In addition, Sohu claims that at least 400 thousand ethnic Chinese live in the territory of the former Soviet republic and that they have long dreamed of returning to the fold of the Celestial Empire. Where the author read it is not specified, but everything is very similar to cheap speculation. The territory is originally ours, occupied by Chinese compatriots - what is not a reason for bloodless annexation? This, of course, if you exaggerate. In fact, the Chinese version of "random" material in the media giant Sohu also has little faith. Moreover, the territorial claims of the Beijing Sea and история their permission has not yet been completed. In addition, censorship in the Middle Kingdom is still at its best, and Sohu is not a seedy Internet resource - after all, the materials of the official state Xinhua are published on its pages. And, as it turned out, such ideas are not born in China for the first time. The Director of the Risk Assessment Group mentioned above, Dosym Satpayev, comments:

“This is not the first time that such provocative materials appear with an emphasis on some unknown historical documents or on pseudo-historical information, where the emphasis is on the fact that at one time part of the Kazakh territory was controlled by China or belonged to China. If such publications appear in the media of a state where traditionally control over the media field is very tight, the question arises: is there a purposeful policy of certain forces in China to create excitement inside China with claims to other countries? If this happens by chance, which is doubtful, then why aren’t tough statements made about this at the level of the country's leadership? One case is a case, the second case is a coincidence, and the third is a trend. ”



The area of ​​the Seven Rivers, which, according to Sohu, may return to the PRC. Unless, of course, the population will not mind. Source: wikipedia.org

In general, all this is like a kind of intelligence publication with the aim of assessing the mood of a neighboring state, as well as provoking nationalists. At the same time, of course, no one is talking about full-fledged military expansion: China does not need such global mess. Rather, within the country, the influence of supporters of a certain integration of the two countries in the political and economic channels is growing. In the annex to Russia, this is at least worth paying attention to. Firstly, Kazakhstan’s even greater involvement in the Chinese economy is rather negative for us. Just because we cannot afford to invest tens of billions of dollars in a neighboring state, and Beijing can and will demand loyalty for this. And secondly, these scenarios of supposedly restoring imaginary historical justice can be played by China in our Far East.
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  1. Dmitry from Voronezh
    Dmitry from Voronezh April 24 2020 04: 49 New
    15
    Well, it's time to get used to the new realities. China is a superpower and in the near future will only strengthen its influence. Every superpower sooner or later goes over to expansion: economic, political, military. So everything is natural. These trends need to be taken into account and be prepared to resist them. If it is possible to maintain internal stability, then this expansion will not bring harm to either Kazakhstan or us.
    1. Basil50
      Basil50 April 24 2020 05: 24 New
      -1
      China in * superpower * even with the exertion of all who are called * Chinese * will never crawl through. They understand this because they’re spoiling the neighbors and making claims that are obviously ridiculous.
      China became a single state only in the second half of the last century. Until then, there were many Chinese.
      Modern Chinese * yellow and narrow-eyed * have nothing to do with * Ancient China * DO NOT HAVE, they came on those lands.
      The assimilation of the indigenous population is still a priority for the Chinese leadership. The ferocity of the harassment is no less than in the last century, ethnic killings, the robbery of the indigenous population, outright lies and fraud in history are used.
      An example of a lie is the notorious * terracotta army * during excavations of which Mao’s wife’s watch ring was dug out. And there are many such examples.
      In the historical lies, the citizens of Okraintsy are not pioneers.
      1. Lipchanin
        Lipchanin April 24 2020 05: 48 New
        +5
        Quote: Vasily50
        In the historical lies, the citizens of Okraintsy are not pioneers.

        Well, it seems that all states have become famous in this.
        Lies and self-praise will never fade
        1. major147
          major147 April 24 2020 18: 18 New
          +1
          Quote: Lipchanin
          Lies and self-praise will never fade

          "You cannot praise yourself, no one will praise!" - no one has canceled this truth.
      2. Aleksandr1971
        Aleksandr1971 April 24 2020 06: 27 New
        -2
        China has been a superpower several times in history. The lag of China from Europe occurred only from the beginning to the middle of the 18th century. Being a superpower is customary for China. China will again become a superpower in our century, although there are ill-wishers. But it is unlikely that Vasily50 will be able to prevent China.

        The assimilation of small nationalities is the activity of any normal nation-forming nation. And what happened in the USSR, namely the preservation of the identity of Ukrainians, Belarusians and others, is the anti-state policy of the Bolsheviks, which ultimately destroyed the country. Therefore, the Chinese have nothing to blame for the fact that they are nagging Muslims. We need to nag more Muslims.

        And the terricotta army was probably Vasily50 himself secretly in the 70s and baked, since he had such information. wassat
        1. Barmaleyka
          Barmaleyka April 24 2020 07: 49 New
          +7
          Quote: Aleksandr1971
          China has been a superpower several times in history.

          he himself came up with this from a series, he himself believed, in the described history, China had all the neighbors in different periods and only in the description of China everything was vice versa
          1. Aleksandr1971
            Aleksandr1971 April 24 2020 09: 51 New
            -2
            Not the opposite. China also had periods of superpower, and there were periods of catastrophic failure and enslavement by neighbors and non-neighbors. And there will be such periods many more times.
            1. Barmaleyka
              Barmaleyka April 24 2020 10: 52 New
              -2
              Quote: Aleksandr1971
              China also had periods of superpower

              but it is possible in more detail about these periods, moreover, preferably with a reference not to Chinese sources
              all the behavior of China is based on their own doctrine "If you are strong, seem weak, and if you are weak, seem strong. ..."
              Sinaloy milk snake is not dangerous unlike a coral asp

              the only problem is that this principle works right up to the first shot, and then you need not to seem strong, but to be it
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 April 24 2020 11: 52 New
                +1
                Quote: Barmaleyka
                but it is possible in more detail about these periods, moreover, preferably with a reference not to Chinese sources

                In Chinese sources, you will most likely find these references. laughing But as they say, an objective assessment should be from the outside. In fact, China was a "superpower" very, very small-town.
                1. Barmaleyka
                  Barmaleyka April 24 2020 12: 27 New
                  -2
                  I’m just asking for a link not to Chinese sources
              2. CSKA
                CSKA April 24 2020 13: 02 New
                -2
                Quote: Barmaleyka
                but it is possible in more detail about these periods, moreover, preferably with a reference not to Chinese sources

                Han Empire, Jin Empire, Song Empire, Yuan Empire, Ming Empire, Qing Empire.
                1. Barmaleyka
                  Barmaleyka April 24 2020 13: 55 New
                  -1
                  what is the han empire?
                  what is superpower? !!!!
                  About Qing, this is generally ridiculous, by superpower do you mean the period when China had everything and sundry?
                  1. CSKA
                    CSKA April 28 2020 15: 04 New
                    0
                    Quote: Barmaleyka
                    what is the han empire?
                    what is superpower? !!!!

                    The empire is that at that time the countries that captured vast territories and had great influence on neighboring countries were considered superpowers.
                    Quote: Barmaleyka
                    About Qing, this is generally ridiculous, by superpower do you mean the period when China had everything and sundry?

                    Read the story normally before you smile. The decline of the Qing empire began in the 19th century, before that it could by all criteria belong to the superpowers.
                2. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 April 24 2020 14: 24 New
                  +5
                  Quote: CSKA
                  Empire Han, Empire Jin, Empire Song,

                  You dynasties with which fright empires call? belay
                  1. CSKA
                    CSKA April 28 2020 15: 05 New
                    0
                    Quote: Ingvar 72
                    You dynasties with which fright empires call?

                    With such that it is precisely under these dynasties (not all) that China can be attributed to superpowers.
        2. Esoteric
          Esoteric April 24 2020 10: 08 New
          +3
          Well, there was, of course. The Anglo-Saxons had this "superpower" as they wanted, and where they wanted. And there was nothing they could do. Then the Yapps bent this "ancient" country, and yes, a superpower. And now nothing has changed.
          1. Aleksandr1971
            Aleksandr1971 April 24 2020 10: 16 New
            -5
            You can say the same about our country
            1. Esoteric
              Esoteric April 24 2020 10: 21 New
              -2
              I disagree. Nobody "had" anyone. There were two great empires, Russian and British, the rest of the countries were no one to call. France was trying something there. but nobody took them seriously after Napoleon. Naturally, these empires had their own interests, this is normal. It simply cannot be otherwise. But they disintegrated, giving the supremacy overseas, and we are all alive.
              1. Tank hard
                Tank hard April 24 2020 10: 36 New
                +7
                Quote: Ezoterik
                the rest of the countries were nobody and no way to call.

                Well, yes ... And Austria - Hungary was not, and the Great Port ... You killed with your knowledge. request
                1. Esoteric
                  Esoteric April 24 2020 10: 39 New
                  +1
                  Well, of course they were, who is arguing. This refers to the world level, the scale of the entire planet. In this sense, only two, well, France with a big stretch. Germany? It began to play a big role at the beginning of the 20th century, but it is not a world empire either.
                  1. Tank hard
                    Tank hard April 24 2020 10: 41 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Ezoterik
                    Mean world level

                    At one time, the Great Porta was by its influence no less than the British ... repeat
                    1. Ingvar 72
                      Ingvar 72 April 24 2020 11: 56 New
                      -3
                      Quote: Tank Hard
                      The Great Porta was no less influential than the British ...

                      Less, and much more. And very often used by the British in geopolitical games.
                      1. CSKA
                        CSKA April 24 2020 13: 05 New
                        +3
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Less, and much more. And very often used by the British in geopolitical games.

                        This Ottoman Empire in the 16-17 centuries was used by the British?)))))) They smiled. And at 18, when Britain began to become an empire, it certainly did not use Turkey.
                      2. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 April 24 2020 16: 28 New
                        -3
                        Quote: CSKA
                        in the 16-17th centuries

                        Where did you see the time reference in my comment? And there are objections to the importance of influence?
                      3. CSKA
                        CSKA April 27 2020 13: 53 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Where did you see the time reference in my comment? And there are objections to the importance of influence?

                        So why then generalize? The British used Turkey in their games only in the 19th century.
                      4. Alexander I
                        Alexander I April 27 2020 16: 27 New
                        +1
                        In the middle of the 17th century the decline of the Ottoman Empire began and British diplomacy was actively acting and INFLUENCED there
                      5. CSKA
                        CSKA April 28 2020 15: 20 New
                        +1
                        Quote: AlexanderI
                        In the middle of the 17th century the decline of the Ottoman Empire began

                        )))) In the 17th century there was a peak of the heyday of the Ottoman Empire, the decline began in the second half of the 18th century.
                        Quote: AlexanderI
                        English diplomacy was actively acting and INFLUENCED there

                        In the 17th century, England did not have even larger colonies and the strongest fleet in the world, so its diplomacy had no influence on anyone but a few neighboring countries.
                      6. Alexander I
                        Alexander I April 28 2020 16: 33 New
                        0
                        I agree, 1791 "Yassy World", it turns out the 18th century and then it went to the constitution and collapse.
            2. Tank hard
              Tank hard April 25 2020 11: 10 New
              +1
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              Less, and much more.

              Decrypt with examples, please ... repeat
            3. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 April 25 2020 20: 00 New
              -3
              But thinking yourself is not fate? India, America, Africa, Australia - British influence extended to the continents, and Ottoman?
            4. Tank hard
              Tank hard April 25 2020 20: 26 New
              +2
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              But thinking yourself is not fate?

              Igor, history is not your hobby, do not disgrace even here ... request
            5. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 April 26 2020 08: 06 New
              -3
              In addition to troll pearls have something to answer? Or will we further argue that horseradish (plant) and finger are absolutely identical? wink
            6. Tank hard
              Tank hard April 26 2020 20: 25 New
              +1
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              In addition to troll pearls have something to answer?

              Likbezom (I will not decrypt, I hope you yourself) engage in frankly laziness. Googled or something, you yourself sometimes advise others.
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              Or will we further argue that horseradish (plant) and finger are absolutely identical?

              Come on, write something else intellectual, popcorn stocked up. wink
  • Kasym
    Kasym April 24 2020 16: 19 New
    +4
    Roman Empire, Ottoman, Persian, Mongolian. In America, you can call the Incas and the Aztecs - judging by archeology - in Asia in the territory of modern Cambodia (the Khmer Empire or the Angora Kingdom lasted 6 centuries), India and China. hi
    Dmitry, the history of mankind is not limited to the "European peninsula". laughing
    1. Tank hard
      Tank hard April 25 2020 11: 12 New
      +1
      Quote: Kasym
      Dmitry, the history of mankind is not limited to the "European peninsula"

      Some do not succeed in proving this, it remains only to marvel and laugh. laughing
  • Aleksandr1971
    Aleksandr1971 April 24 2020 13: 11 New
    -4
    Ancient Russia 200 years had the Mongols. At the beginning of the 17th century, Poles raped Russia, although not for long. The Russian Empire was raped by Bolsheviks of Jewish origin.

    The Soviet Union was Anglo-Saxon, especially the United States, raped, and the Soviet Union collapsed.

    And the United States has not disintegrated and still has Russia, although now not in all holes, as it was in the "pseudo-saints" of the 90s. Hooray patriots are waiting for the United States to finally disintegrate, but alas, the United States does not disintegrate in spite of them.
    1. Dart
      Dart April 26 2020 00: 00 New
      +1
      so you pierced ... remove the star. You do not need it.
      1. Aleksandr1971
        Aleksandr1971 April 26 2020 05: 30 New
        0
        I wrote my post about Russia in order to show the Ezoterik reader that any country, including Russia, and not just China, can go through periods of global failure. That is, I am not at all happy about the current decline of Russia. But you cannot forget the past.

        As for the future, I hope that Russia will again become a great power. Only the country's leadership does not contribute to this. However, my hope is ephemeral and is associated only with possible climate warming. Warming will give preferences to Russia no earlier than the 2nd half of our century.

        But the topic of the article is different - relations between China and Kazakhstan. Undoubtedly, China begins to check its neighbors for how many neighbors will bend under it. But I doubt that it will come to the armed aggression of China in relation to Kazakhstan and others. Even Taiwan is unlikely to attack China. The priority of China, both now and in the medium term, is the economy, not the territory. And war (and, consequently, a quarrel with the whole world) is not what China needs in raising its economy.

        How to respond to such outbursts of information in Russia? Apparently Kazakhstan should give indirect diplomatic signals of support in return for Kazakhstan’s military-political loyalty to Russia. And the plus is to demand from Kazakhstan the observance of Russian interests.

        But at the household level, the Kazakhs both squeezed and will squeeze Russians out of the most tidbit sectors of their economy. This will lead to the impoverishment of Russians in Kazakhstan in any case. This is what is happening with the whites in South Africa. Russia will not be able to prevent this. But on the other hand, if another 3-4 million Russians who still remain in Kazakhstan arrive in Russia, this will slightly soften the nasty demography in Russia itself.
  • Barmaleyka
    Barmaleyka April 24 2020 13: 56 New
    -1
    Quote: Aleksandr1971
    You can say the same about our country

    what exactly can be said?
    1. Aleksandr1971
      Aleksandr1971 April 26 2020 05: 35 New
      0
      Ezoterik said that China had its neighbors.
      I answered him that neighbors and not neighbors also had Russia. But then this did not interfere with the new elevations of both China and Russia.
      See my posts above.
      1. Barmaleyka
        Barmaleyka April 26 2020 07: 11 New
        -2
        Once again, what kind of ups of the Chinese are you talking about?
        neighbors had Russia and not neighbors who when? !!!
        1. Aleksandr1971
          Aleksandr1971 April 26 2020 08: 43 New
          0
          In one of the messages it was already noted that the rise of China was the rule of the Han Dynasty (early, not late Han). U Dee's reign is a superpower. At the opposite end of the mainland, only the Roman state is comparable.

          I would argue about the Jin dynasty mentioned, since this is not a Chinese state, but a Jurchen state. The Jin oppressed the Chinese, and then miserably lost to the Mongols.

          Undoubtedly, takeoff is the rule of the Tang Dynasty, when the Chinese ruled the lands to Baikal in the north, to Khiva in the west. The Chinese during this period made up 50% of the world's population. Only the degradation of the rulers and foreign policy failures led to the An Lushan Civil War with the death of 20 million inhabitants and the end of the dynasty.

          The rule of the Song Dynasty can be considered the rise of the economy (more than half of the global economy), but also a growing failure in foreign policy.

          The first half of the Ming Dynasty reign is takeoff. Especially the reign of Zhu Di, when China had a real, but unused chance to conquer more undeveloped lands on the planet.

          The rule of the Manchu Qing dynasty in its first half is also a take-off. The standard of living and population of China until the 18th century far exceeded Europe. And for all the neighbors, Kitty was then a formidable military adversary.

          Of course, in these periods, China did not have global influence, therefore, China was a superpower periodically only in Central and East Asia. But then there was no global peace. And now all the countries of the world have actually become neighbors to each other.

          You, Barmaleyka, can cite opposite points. But judging by your phrases, this is nothing more than an illiterate screech.
          Most likely your next post (screech) will confirm this.
          1. Barmaleyka
            Barmaleyka April 26 2020 09: 01 New
            -2
            U Dee's reign is a superpower. At the opposite end of the mainland, only the Roman state is comparable.
            except the Chinese, who else can confirm this?
            Quote: Aleksandr1971
            But judging by your phrases, this is nothing more than an illiterate screech.

            when they get personal it says a lot
            Quote: Aleksandr1971
            The rule of the Manchu Qing dynasty in its first half is also a take-off. The standard of living and population of China until the 18th century far exceeded Europe.

            and what level was superior ?! By the way, the contradiction came the Manchus and bent China, based on your logic, the American Indians are still a superpower
            1. Aleksandr1971
              Aleksandr1971 April 26 2020 09: 21 New
              0
              For the transition to the person - sorry.

              About the history of China, the Chinese themselves will confirm. Non-Romans could write about the Han Dynasty. And it was not the Chinese who could write about the Yuliev-Klavdiev dynasty in Rome. And especially not the Russians, who as a nation then did not exist at all.

              The historical sources for each people are the chronicles and other written data and artifacts of this, and not someone else’s. Alien people occasionally only complements the story. You know the history of Russia from Russian sources, not from Chinese. Why do you want the same in Chinese history? So that this story is written by Russians?

              And the fact that in China there were dynasties of non-Chinese origin (Tang, Jin, Qing) is normal.

              There were no Russian dynasties of rulers at all in Russia. Rurikovich from Varangians, Romanovs from Lithuania, later Romanovs-Gottorps - Germans.

              About Indians - you attract by the ears. Indians are not a nation-forming nation in the United States. This role is played there by immigrants from Europe and their descendants. In Russia, they are Russians, and other peoples of Russia (Tatars, Buryats, etc.) only supplement the statehood of Russia, but do not bear it. In the United States, Indians do not even carry this supplement function. The Indians were an alien spot on the land that once was theirs. But they justifiably profiled this land.
            2. Barmaleyka
              Barmaleyka April 26 2020 09: 23 New
              -2
              Quote: Aleksandr1971
              About the history of China, the Chinese themselves will confirm.

              that's what the conversation is about, not a single third-party confirmation
            3. The comment was deleted.
            4. Aleksandr1971
              Aleksandr1971 April 26 2020 09: 38 New
              0
              Third-party confirmation of the history of China is sufficient for historians from Central Asia, Mongolia (for example, "The Secret Legend of the Mongols"), historians of Arab origin (Ibn Battuta), full of historical data from India, Iran, Korea and Japan, the countries of Southeast Asia on history of China.

              The Secret Legend speaks of the time of the formation of the alliance of the Mongol tribes and the relationship between themselves and China of the Jin Dynasty.

              For example, in Vietnamese historiography, there is evidence of the defensive warriors who led Vietnam against the Chinese aggression during the Ming Dynasty.

              Marco Polo wrote curious notes about the court of China during the Mongol Yuan Dynasty.

              Even ancient Roman sources are available around the country of silk and about allegedly Chinese embassies. Although Roman sources, for obvious reasons, are not accurate. As well as the Chinese about ancient Rome.

              In other words, it is precisely from the history of China that one can find a very large number of sources from other peoples.
            5. Barmaleyka
              Barmaleyka April 26 2020 09: 47 New
              -2
              Quote: Aleksandr1971
              The Secret Legend speaks of the time of the formation of the alliance of the Mongol tribes and the relationship between themselves and China of the Jin Dynasty.

              that is, China was, well, what about greatness?
              Quote: Aleksandr1971
              Marco Polo wrote curious notes about the court of China during the Mongol Yuan Dynasty.

              What exactly is said about superpower?
            6. Aleksandr1971
              Aleksandr1971 April 26 2020 09: 56 New
              0
              I only outlined historical sources. You said that none of the neighbors has any data on the history of China. I easily refuted your position.

              And you read the contents of the sources yourself. The development of these sources is worthy of obtaining a higher historical education.

              After all, you asked me a question clearly not so that I would give a written lecture here, and not so that you would be enlightened on the history of China, but in order to troll me. Let other readers of this thread see this.
            7. The comment was deleted.
            8. Barmaleyka
              Barmaleyka April 26 2020 11: 39 New
              -3
              Quote: Aleksandr1971
              You said that none of the neighbors has any data on the history of China.

              bring my full quote and do not misinterpret other people's words
            9. Aleksandr1971
              Aleksandr1971 April 26 2020 13: 19 New
              0
              What for? The meaning is understandable - that China had periods of great power, which you denied.
              And that the existence of these periods is confirmed not only by Chinese, but also by foreign sources.
              And you want me to abandon the meaningful discussion and switch to empty squabbles.
            10. Barmaleyka
              Barmaleyka April 26 2020 15: 38 New
              -2
              Quote: Aleksandr1971
              What for? The meaning is understandable - that China had periods of great power, which you denied.

              then that the great power was just spawn and that China was no one denies
              Once again, in a non-Chinese source, is it spoken about the great power of China?
            11. Aleksandr1971
              Aleksandr1971 April 26 2020 16: 39 New
              0
              I wrote my answers to your questions not for you, but for other readers. To see who speaks in essence and who is a troll. After all, your messages repeat questions over and over again, to which I have already given answers and arguments. In turn, you repeat nothing but idle talk.
              You cannot be persuaded because you have no beliefs, but it is full of chatter. Let other readers of the site see it.
            12. Aleksandr1971
              Aleksandr1971 April 26 2020 16: 51 New
              -1
              Among the Western historiographers who designated the accomplishments of China, we can distinguish:
              - Charles Fitzgerald "History of China";
              - Robert Temple "The Chinese Genius: 3000 Years of Science, Discovery and Invention";
              - Joel Mokir "The Lever of Wealth";
              - Nicholas Wade, An Inconvenient Legacy.
              The listed sources can also be found in Russian. Western sources not translated into Russian in China are simply unmeasured.
          2. The comment was deleted.
  • Aleksandr1971
    Aleksandr1971 April 26 2020 10: 08 New
    -1
    On the overthrow of China, in particular in the works of Plano Carpini, it was noted that the Great Khan owns lands 5 times the empire of Alexander the Great. Plano Carpini was the Pope's ambassador to the court of the Great Khan to conclude an alliance with the crusaders against the Mamelukes.
    Similarly about Kublai Khan (Yuan Dynasty) wrote Marco Polo.
  • Barmaleyka
    Barmaleyka April 26 2020 11: 40 New
    -1
    Khubilai (Mong. Khubilai Khaan; Chinese 忽必烈 сентября September 23, 1215 - February 18, 1294) - Mongolian khan, founder of the Mongolian state of Yuan, which included China
  • Aleksandr1971
    Aleksandr1971 April 26 2020 13: 30 New
    -1
    The Yuan Empire is a Chinese state with the Mongols, including with Khubilai, at the head.
    And the Yuan empire did not appear as a result of the collapse of Mongolia, but as a result of the collapse of the multinational state created by the Mongols led by Genghis Khan.

    Or is Ancient Russia a Varangian state? After all, the Rurikovich were the Vikings.
    Empress Catherine II was German, and was Russia headed by her - was it Germany?

    The same is true with Kublai and China. The nationality of the country's elite and leader does not change the ethnicity of the country itself. Remember the Bolshevik Politburo in the 20s of the 20th century - what nationality did they consist of? And at the same time, the USSR all the same - it was Russia.

    So your remarks about the Mongolian affiliation of Khubilai and that the Yuan state is Mongolian, and not Chinese, are not justified. The state of Yuan is one of China's past forms of existence.
  • Barmaleyka
    Barmaleyka April 26 2020 15: 39 New
    -1
    Quote: Aleksandr1971
    Yuan Empire - a Chinese state with the Mongols

    NOT CHINESE AND MOGOLSKY, with the same success, the Poles can claim the first flight into space based on the fact that they were part of the empire
  • Aleksandr1971
    Aleksandr1971 April 26 2020 16: 42 New
    -2
    In Yuan, the Mongols were rulers, but the state of Yuan was Chinese. Just like Russia, the Varangians Rurikovich, the Romanov Germans, the Jews or Georgians ruled either, but Russia was the Russian state, and not the Scandinavian, German or Jewish.
  • Barmaleyka
    Barmaleyka April 26 2020 09: 27 New
    -1
    Quote: Aleksandr1971
    In Russia there were no Russians of origin at all

    What does Russian origin mean ?!
    and Rurikovich excuse me a few theories
  • Aleksandr1971
    Aleksandr1971 April 26 2020 09: 58 New
    -3
    We are talking about dominant theories. By the way, these are Russian theories that have no third-party data from China. And if so, are these dubious theories?
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Aleksandr1971
    Aleksandr1971 April 27 2020 14: 55 New
    -2
    Readers of the site once again became convinced that you, Barmaleyka, are a troll, that is, a person with empty speeches and with empty meaning. To see this, just look at your comments on various articles.

    I hope that the site administration will remove you from here.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Basil50
    Basil50 April 24 2020 07: 22 New
    -2
    Frankly sorry for the wretched.
    The technology for compiling clay and the terracotta sintering process itself, which was used to make Chinese fakes, was invented in Germany at the very end of the nineteenth century.
    After the death of Mao, the Chinese found an opportunity to sell themselves to the Americans and, in confirmation of their loyalty to the transaction, organized provocations against the SOVIET UNION, down to the military, and of course allowed American archaeologists to dig. A lot of what the Americans dug up and, just in case, EVERYTHING was recorded, including film and film.
    For those who are especially stubborn, Americans also have about digging out * Pekinopithecus *, and this will be older than the digging of the Black Sea declared by Ukrainians.
    1. Aleksandr1971
      Aleksandr1971 April 24 2020 09: 54 New
      +2
      terracotta is ceramic. And there was a technique for making ceramics from the time of the manufacture of pottery, that is, in the late primitive system, long before the advent of China. And you write that they came up with terracotta at the end of the 19th century in Germany. Amazing ignorance!
    2. fyvaprold
      fyvaprold April 24 2020 09: 55 New
      +3
      Quote: Vasily50
      The technology for compiling clay and the terracotta sintering process itself, which was used to make Chinese fakes, was invented in Germany at the very end of the nineteenth century.

      And what year was gunpowder invented in Germany? Everything in the world was invented in Germany and other "normal" countries, despite the fact that all this existed long before the European "civilizers" stopped catching fleas with their teeth. And the "poor" are really a pity ... repeat
    3. Basil50
      Basil50 April 24 2020 11: 04 New
      +1
      for the wretched
      There are many recipes for making clay. Depending on the clay that is being dug nearby, it is sometimes * ennobled * with additives.
      Sintering technologies from clay products are also many, depending on fuel and traditions.
      The technology by which the Chinese created their counterfeit antiquity, in the form of a * terracotta army *, was invented in Germany. Before the Germans, SO choose a clay recipe and then burn the product nowhere Could not, had no opportunity. There are many technological tricks that became available ONLY at the end of the century before last.
      In modern China, there are many STATE artels that create * antiquities * from manuscripts to archaeological * finds *.
      1. fyvaprold
        fyvaprold April 24 2020 11: 19 New
        +1
        Quote: Vasily50
        The technology by which the Chinese created their counterfeit antiquity, in the form of a * terracotta army *, was invented in Germany. Before the Germans, SO choose a clay recipe and then burn the product nowhere Could not, had no opportunity. There are many technological tricks that became available ONLY at the end of the century before last.

        In-in, I recall how the Chinese carried porcelain from Germany, even 3 thousand years ago. Factory direct from Porzellan Manufaktur Allach. laughing You are, as I can see, a big fan of all sorts of "alternative" stories and conspiracy theories. wassat
        1. Aleksandr1971
          Aleksandr1971 April 24 2020 13: 17 New
          0
          Yes Yes! According to Vasily50, the Chinese stole porcelain manufacturing technology from Saxony in the 18th century.
          In general, occasionally hearing pearls from such completely illiterate eccentrics is funny ..... wassat
  • Aleksandr21
    Aleksandr21 April 24 2020 08: 34 New
    +7
    Quote: Vasily50
    China in * superpower * even with the exertion of all who are called * Chinese * will never crawl through.


    And China will ask someone whether or not to be a superpower? In terms of economic power, the PRC has practically equaled the United States, especially if we count in terms of GDP (PPP), at face value is also a question of the near future, in terms of diplomatic power, China is present in all parts of the world and can influence the policies of many states (especially Africa, South America , Asian countries, etc.), with the military while China is at the stage of building its armed forces, but already now they deservedly occupy the 3rd place in the world, and in 10-20 years they will completely take the 2nd place. And here we cannot do anything, since the backlog of the USSR is not eternal and the resources that we invest in the military-industrial complex cannot be compared with the resources that the Chinese Communist Party spends on its military-industrial complex, and the results are already visible, especially with regard to the surface fleet, and the land army has changed significantly over the past 20 years, for the better .... give another 10-20 years and the issue will be resolved with its own design school, aviation, etc. it's just a matter of time and money. And in terms of technology as a whole, China is far from being a country of the third world, the United States did not just start a trade and technological war with China, because if in 3 and 2000 they still looked through their fingers and thought that no one would press us, then in 2010- 2018 they were not funny when China began to develop 2020G networks, invest in AI and computing power (5 supercomputers out of the top 228 in the world are China, 500rd and 3th places in terms of power are Chinese computing machines), and grow in all other areas, and if we recall the 4 billion population, which every year consumes more and more, with the growth of the service market, which in the future will bypass the US and EU markets (maybe even taken together within 1,4-20 years), then the US fears and their loss " exclusivity "are justified. Therefore, in a way, the PRC can already be called a superpower or a power that is not so far from this status.
    1. Esoteric
      Esoteric April 24 2020 10: 13 New
      -1
      Throwing China into the "Stone Age" is easy. All of their prosperity is built on the export of goods to the Western world, and goods that are produced using Western technologies. Cut it off for them, that's all. Vorobiev will eat again.
      1. fyvaprold
        fyvaprold April 24 2020 10: 38 New
        +1
        Quote: Ezoterik
        Throwing China into the "Stone Age" is easy. All of their prosperity is built on the export of goods to the Western world, and goods that are produced using Western technologies. Cut it off for them, that's all. Vorobiev will eat again.

        Cut it all off with them and the "Civilized West" will return to the era of steam. All western high-tech is produced in China. So it is far from a fact who will suffer the most, and China still has a huge domestic market, with which no "civilized" country has ever stood near. So the sparrows will most likely be the "civilizers" and in their raw form. laughing
        1. Esoteric
          Esoteric April 24 2020 10: 44 New
          +1
          Dropping China is easy, there would be a desire. "Gentlemen" from London will be able to do it for two times. They have centuries of experience in the "divide and conquer" field. In China, contradictions, from national to clan, are a dime a dozen. If the aforementioned "gentlemen" take it seriously, the result is predictable. They ate a dog there. But they don't want to yet.
          1. fyvaprold
            fyvaprold April 24 2020 10: 52 New
            +1
            Quote: Ezoterik
            Dropping China is easy, there would be a desire. "Gentlemen" from London will be able to do it for two times. They have centuries of experience in the "divide and conquer" field. In China, contradictions, from national to clan, are a dime a dozen. If the aforementioned "gentlemen" take it seriously, the result is predictable. They ate a dog there. But they don't want to yet.

            You greatly overestimate the capabilities of the London "gentlemen", their heyday came in the middle of the 19th century, then one continuous degradation, especially after WWII. Remember Hong Kong, how long did the "gentlemen" wander around? And China then and now, these are incomparable countries. IMHO.
      2. CSKA
        CSKA April 24 2020 13: 08 New
        0
        Quote: Ezoterik
        Western-made products

        ))) Does this in China turn out to be no technology? Well, yes, Huawei is the world leader in installing the G5, but it turns out this is not their technology.
        1. Esoteric
          Esoteric April 24 2020 14: 00 New
          0
          Not a, not theirs))
          1. Kasym
            Kasym April 24 2020 16: 29 New
            +1
            Judging by modern history, the Isoterian U.S. Navy blocked the Strait of Malacca during the exercises recently - 80% of China's trade passes through it - the Chinese were very unhappy and seized on the Silk Road, are now exploring the possibilities of the Northern Sea Route.
            In fact, to cause trouble for Beijing, it is enough to stop the export of raw materials to this country. China is not a self-sufficient state - no, for example, energy; actually a lot of things aren’t. But such a step ... the same Moscow, Riyadh, Tehran and Astana will not agree. hi
            1. Revolver
              Revolver April 24 2020 19: 30 New
              +1
              Quote: Kasym
              In fact, to cause trouble for Beijing, it is enough to stop the export of raw materials to this country. China is not a self-sufficient state - no, for example, energy; actually a lot of things aren’t.

              God bless them with energy, there are no bugs there. China does not provide itself with food, starvation will begin without import, since they have long forgotten how to survive on a rice bowl a day.
              And also, China does not have markets without the West for the array of cheap low-quality consumer goods that are produced there. Coronavirus has proven this. The West has temporarily shut down ports for insignificant imports, and be kind - in China, for the first time since Deng Xiaoping, negative economic growth. If this is done on a more permanent basis, the Chinese economy will be covered.
              Quote: Kasym
              Moscow, Riyadh, Tehran and Astana will not agree.

              Tehran can finally bend under sanctions and not in business. If Uncle Sam greatly impatient, then the Saudis he will whip. But Moscow alone, even with Astana to the heap, is not enough to keep China from economic collapse.
          2. CSKA
            CSKA April 27 2020 14: 00 New
            +2
            Quote: Ezoterik
            Not a, not theirs))

            Read. Kirin 985, with a built-in 5G modem (2020) - is aimed at low-cost flagship smartphones.
            https://www.huawei.com/ru/press-events/news/ru/2020/huawei_globaldata_5gran_competitive_landscape_assessment
        2. Revolver
          Revolver April 24 2020 19: 09 New
          +1
          Quote: CSKA
          Huawei World Leader in G5 Installation

          I do not know where how, but in America (and to the heap in Canada and Mexico) there is 5G, but there is no Huawei. Banned.
          1. CSKA
            CSKA April 27 2020 14: 00 New
            +1
            Quote: Nagan
            I do not know where how, but in America (and to the heap in Canada and Mexico) there is 5G, but there is no Huawei. Banned.

            North America is not the whole world thank God.
            1. Esoteric
              Esoteric April 28 2020 17: 57 New
              +1
              Russian with Chinese brothers forever? I do not think so. The worse for China, the better for our country. There are no friends in politics, only interests. And it is right. It is impossible to agree with the Chinese, a completely different mentality.
  • bayard
    bayard April 24 2020 09: 15 New
    +9
    And I would be so frivolous as the author of the article and some forum users did not belong to this. I will never believe that such an impudent article came out in China without the knowledge of its authorities. In China, this cannot happen in principle.
    This is an application for expansion, for annexation of OUR, and not some non-"Kazakh" territories. The Kazakhs themselves as a nationality (not a nation) are only 85 years old - since 1935, when Kaganovich cut off the Republic of Kazakstan from the RSFSR (the map given by the author also says "Kyrgyz (!) - Cossacks") - Cossack Stan - the region of the Ural Troops Semirechye Cossacks.
    There were no Kazakhs, in principle, there was no such people. There were nomadic herders - KIRGIZ. They were so called in RI and in all metrics it was meant that way.
    KYRGYZ.
    And KAZAKI is a military estate of the RUSSIAN ethnos! And since the estate was MILITARY, the territories on which they lived were called the AREAS OF THE TROOPS - Ural, Semirechensky, Donskoy and further on the list. And between their cities and villages, pastoralists of another ethnic group wandered - mainly people from East Turkistan.
    By the way, Eastern Turkistan also gravitated a lot to the Russian Empire, and the Russian tsars had plans to annex it (the current "Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Okrug" of the PRC), meeting the aspirations of local residents ... And by the way, Tibet also gravitated and wanted the White Tsar's arm.

    With these historical lands, Russia acted according to the classic Overton windows - first they were isolated from the RSFSR, but as part of the Single Union State, they changed one letter in the name, then they came up with a new mixture of local Kyrgyz from Turkestan for the local Kyrgyz people) the name is the Kazakhs ... And then the USSR collapsed, previously demarcated the administrative border, turning it into a state border. At the time of the separation / collapse of the Union, in Kazakh (?) Camp, half of the population were ethnic Russian people. Plus the Germans (resettled) and a number of other peoples of the USSR. Kazakhs themselves were a little over a third, and they did not live in cities - they wandered as in previous centuries.
    And how many Russians are left in Kazakhstan now?
    These nomads are already quite accustomed to the strange way presented to them by our land. And in all oppress the Russian.
    There is discrimination in everything.

    And now the Chinese want to eat them.
    Oops ...
    How do they know how to digest absorbed peoples - many examples. Admire at least East Turkestan.
    And with them you can’t get swayed with Russia, the horns are broken off quickly.
    And now looking at EVERYTHING this ... I would like to say in the words of Georges Miloslavsky ... about squandering state lands ...
    Maybe it's really time to return to the United State?

    ... Or did Sokhu write the truth that Kazakhs cannot eat as they want to go to China?
    And at that time there was no choice at all ...
    1. Tank hard
      Tank hard April 24 2020 10: 39 New
      +2
      Quote: bayard
      This is an application for expansion, for annexation of OUR, and not some non-"Kazakh" territories

      Since 1991, there are no OUR territories, they gave everything along with the Russian population. For me, this is a shameful moment.
    2. ccsr
      ccsr April 24 2020 11: 04 New
      +4
      Quote: bayard
      This is an application for expansion, for annexation of OUR, and not some non-"Kazakh" territories.

      The Chinese see not only Russia and Kazakhstan as a distant goal of their expansion, but also all their closest neighbors, to which they have had territorial claims for many years. Indeed, we must very carefully observe the actions of the Chinese in Kazakhstan, since most likely it is there that they will test the tactics and strategy of squeezing out foreign lands by changing the composition of the population in the "northern territories." How successfully they will do this is still an unclear question, but the very fact of the article's appearance has once again proved that China will never give up the idea of ​​seizing foreign lands.
      Well, our former "brothers" can only be advised to seriously think about whether the West and the United States will help them this way if the Chinese impudence goes beyond diplomatic etiquette. Maybe they just need to unite with Russia more than Belarus, at least due to historical traditions. However, I do not think that they will go for it, and if they do, it will be too late.
      1. CSKA
        CSKA April 24 2020 13: 10 New
        0
        Quote: ccsr
        As a long-term goal of their expansion, the Chinese consider not only Russia and Kazakhstan, but also all their closest neighbors, to which they have had territorial claims for many years.

        What are the official territorial claims of the PRC to the Russian Federation and Kazakhstan.
        1. ccsr
          ccsr April 24 2020 16: 59 New
          +3
          Quote: CSKA
          What are the official territorial claims of the PRC to the Russian Federation and Kazakhstan.

          You are used to living one day and cannot look into the future, which can easily be calculated on the basis of our history. Now China does not officially make any territorial claims to Russia, but we have already lost part of our territory after the demarcation of borders. But the matter is not in official claims, but in the policy of the Chinese government, which stimulates the sending to Russia of a huge number of Chinese who not only work for us, but also receive our citizenship in all possible ways. This is the basis on which China will try to achieve the exclusion of our territories in the future. If you do not expect this, then I am sorry for your children and grandchildren, because they just have to see it all with their own eyes. Well, you can be complacent, but I do not advise you to forget about Father Damansky.
          1. bayard
            bayard April 24 2020 19: 18 New
            -1
            Quote: ccsr
            I do not advise you to forget about Damansky.

            In Damansky, my uncle, the father’s brother, fought.
            One really cannot forget about this. As well as the fact that the Chinese do not have such a thing as honor, honesty, fidelity to contracts ... They need to be very soberly evaluated. And never be considered as allies - they will betray you at any moment convenient for you.
            And in general, it's time to return to ideology - state ideology, to the ideology of the Russian State, like Russia-Horde. Discarding all false gossip about the "Mongol-Tatar yoke" and other fantasies from Toriks. Our state, as a Slavic-Turkic Empire, existed for thousands of years, and OUR Turks have never been Mongoloids. The Türkic language group is precisely the LANGUAGE group. Now. And before the TURKI - it was CONSOLUTION, the border guard of the Empire ... as well as the Cossacks. On the weapons, helmets and armor of our princes there is the Arab-Uyghur script, but this only means that these languages ​​- Arabic, Tatar (Uyghur), were COMMONLY CONSUMER in Russia (in All Russia). My grandfather knew several Tatar (Turkic) languages ​​and dialects perfectly, he was even invited from time to time as a translator. But he was a crystal Russian man, a native of the Northern Urals, who lived most of his life in the Southern Urals. He was a forester in the village of Khanzhino - the former Cossack village, the ancestral village of the Khanzhin family ... The Khanzhin family came from one of the sons of Genghis Khan and the name of the founder of the family is translated as the Hand of the Tsar. This clan regularly gave the Ural, Orenburg and Semirechensky atamans to the Army. One of the representatives of this family became a hero of the war of 1812, like Platov, he, being the ataman of the Ural Army, led his Cossacks to the war, participated in the Battle of Borodino, in the famous raid of Cossacks and hussars in the rear of the Napoleonic army, in many subsequent battles ... After that war, the Borodin family went too ...
            In the village of my grandfather there were no Tatars (or Bashkirs), only Cossacks lived there (at that time already decoded) ... the descendants of the Shabalin family lived there, whose ancestor annexed the island of Hokkaido (the northernmost and largest of the Japanese) to RI .. Sorry not for long. So our Cossacks are the descendants of those very "Mongol-Tatars" of the great Genghis Khan - the legitimate heirs of his great Empire, along with all other Russian people, respectively. And the Bashkirs are also ours, there is no more reliable and faithful friend like the Bashkirs. In Turkic-Tatar-Uyghur, the Horde is an Army. So they called the Cossack regions of the united Empire ... Hordes - in the Turkic languages. But for US - for RUSSIANS, these have always been the AREAS of our troops.
            And the Türks entered our troops.
            And therefore, the Turkic (Tatar) language was one of the main MILITARY languages. That’s why the Uyghur-Arabic script on Russian armor. It’s just that in the Russian Army everyone knew the Tatar language. And the word itself is Türks, which means - border guard, Border Troops of the Empire.
            United Empire.
            So it's TIME TO THE EMPIRE!
            To our Great Horde.
            Only not according to Devyatov, who wants Russia to put everything under China ... our old people would probably die with such an idea ... but according to ours.
            IN RUSSIAN .
            When everyone is good.
            And the Chinese are OUTSIDE.
          2. The comment was deleted.
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 06: 15 New
              0
              Quote: Aleksandr1971
              I myself am a Siberian, and I go to work all the way to Sakhalin.

              Looks like the "officer's daughter". winked
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. The comment was deleted.
              3. Aleksandr1971
                Aleksandr1971 April 26 2020 08: 50 New
                0
                The son of an officer. Reserve officer himself
                Not Chinese
                1. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 08: 59 New
                  0
                  Quote: Aleksandr1971
                  Not Chinese

                  So, I'm sorry, I even saw Chinese tourists in our city. Novomoskovsk. What the hell do they need here?
                  1. Aleksandr1971
                    Aleksandr1971 April 26 2020 09: 09 New
                    0
                    Like any tourist, regardless of nationality, they want to see not only the capital, but also the wilderness. I travel often and know this for myself. When I occasionally visit China, locals often try to take photos with me. For them I am a tourist and a curiosity.

                    Let the Chinese and not the Chinese travel around Russia, let them spend money in Russia. And don't let them spy laughing
                  2. Mordvin 3
                    Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 09: 21 New
                    0
                    Quote: Aleksandr1971
                    And don't let them spy

                    Heh, you are not so good. The Chinese government advises everyone traveling abroad to spy, photograph and remember.
                    - What are you afraid of! What is your salary? And you are offered three hundred “bucks”, and this is only one point in the combat charter of an aviation unit! No risk! Moreover, this is no longer a secret! You see! Good people offer such money that you share information with them.

                    Major Alexander Artyukhov was able to convince. But captain Vadim Nikolaev could not understand what his colleague wanted from him.



                    - Wait a minute. I didn’t understand, - I could not understand Nikolaev in any way. - What people? What kind of money? Who needs this charter?

                    Artyukhov, having confidentially moved along with the chair, almost whispers in his friend's ear:

                    - Do not be afraid! Reliable people. No kidalov. I have known them for a long time, there have not been any problems yet. Why are you staring at me? Did you see a spy? All spies in Moscow are sitting in the Arbat military district! All secrets have long been sold to the States or China. They are rowing money with a shovel, and we count every penny! Take a moment, do the "grandmother"! There is still demand! Everyone revolves around as they can. One such remained ...

                    In many ways, Artyukhov was right. The Corner Village, where they served, was a corner forgotten by God. The dilapidated air force base. A beggarly salary, no prospects for a replacement, much less an increase. Captain Vadim Nikolaev in this regard was no different from his colleagues.

                    “I need to think,” Nikolaev said muffledly.

                    A few days later, a telephone rang at the reception of the FSB in Primorsky Krai.

                    - This is captain Vadim Nikolaev. I have information of national importance. May I meet with one of the officers? ..

                    So began the operation, codenamed "Vanya." One of dozens of others in Chinese espionage in Russia.

                    https://www.litmir.me/br/?b=172263&p=12
                  3. ccsr
                    ccsr April 26 2020 10: 42 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Mordvin 3
                    Heh, you are not so good. The Chinese government advises everyone traveling abroad to spy, photograph and remember.

                    By the way, before the Second World War, American intelligence agencies noticed that all visitors from Japan always had first-class photo equipment, which they constantly used during their trips. After the war, when the scale of Japanese espionage was revealed, it was established that all tourists were ordered to take pictures of important objects and infrastructure of cities, especially large coastal ones. So the Chinese are copying the methods of foreign intelligence here.
                  4. Mordvin 3
                    Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 10: 50 New
                    0
                    Quote: ccsr
                    all visitors from Japan always had first-class photo equipment,

                    It is from Japan that they have torn experience. It was very interesting to me when I walked to the Kremlin, they licked me from head to toe, and the Japanese went with cameras, no one detained them.
                  5. Mite
                    Mite April 26 2020 11: 00 New
                    -2
                    Quote: Mordvin 3
                    when he walked to the Kremlin, they licked me from head to toe, and the Japanese went with cameras, no one detained them.

                    laughing It's a shame Vladimir! And what to take from the Japanese, they have long been no longer samurai like Pokémon with their cameras and smiles .. And if you were suspected, then Vladimir you are still that action movie in the eyes of the guard ..)))
                    Be proud !!!!! soldier
                  6. Mordvin 3
                    Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 11: 06 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Tick
                    .A if you were suspected, then Vladimir you are still that action movie in the eyes of the guard ..)))
                    Be proud !!!!!

                    Vital, I carried a can of Coca-Cola. Looks like they thought it was a bomb. Well, then they watched me. I found a banner in the Kremlin, so one major advised me to get out of there. laughing
                  7. ccsr
                    ccsr April 26 2020 12: 22 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Mordvin 3
                    I found a banner in the Kremlin,

                    And you didn’t have a knapsack mine behind you?
                  8. Mordvin 3
                    Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 13: 35 New
                    +1
                    Quote: ccsr
                    And you didn’t have a knapsack mine behind you?

                    Did not have. And that wire along the Kremlin wall is stretched from the inside. I will not be imprisoned for the disclosure of state secrets? That was thirty years ago. laughing
                2. Mite
                  Mite April 26 2020 13: 22 New
                  -2
                  Quote: Mordvin 3
                  Vital, I carried a can of Coca-Cola. Looks like they thought it was a bomb.

                  And my dad (the deceased) also said that he bought a couple of packs of "Belomor" and put a little protruding into his pocket .. They also searched)))
                  Quote: Mordvin 3
                  I found a banner in the Kremlin, so one major advised me to get out of there.

                  I do not understand what kind of stretching? Well, you're a real action movie ..)))))
                3. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 13: 37 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Tick
                  I do not understand what kind of stretching?

                  The wires are stretched along the Kremlin wall. Here I am!
                4. Mite
                  Mite April 26 2020 15: 44 New
                  -2
                  Quote: mordvin xnumx
                  Quote: Tick
                  I do not understand what kind of stretching?

                  The wires are stretched along the Kremlin wall. Here I am!

                  You are a direct commando and not in vain they searched you and drove you away ...)))) And another request to the account was sent to you, with such a big-eyed and arrogant. (You never mind))). wink bully
                  P / S / The truth is now no longer delays, but lasers and other troubles .. are there many patients who have divorced their heads. After the collapse of the USSR! The nuthouses are all empty and closed .. laughing
                5. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 16: 54 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Tick
                  The nuthouses are all empty and closed ..

                  Vitaly, what are you hinting at? am
                6. Mite
                  Mite April 26 2020 17: 24 New
                  -2
                  Quote: mordvin xnumx
                  Quote: Tick
                  The nuthouses are all empty and closed ..

                  Vitaly, what are you hinting at? am

                  God forbid Volodya .. hi soldier
                  This is me about different rogul ..ONI, after all, they’re a rod to us (the pots were removed, but the essence remained))))
                7. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 17: 35 New
                  0
                  Quote: Tick
                  God forbid Volodya ..

                  By the way, Raiska Gorbachev put her brother-writer in a psychiatric hospital. So he roamed there.
  • Aleksandr1971
    Aleksandr1971 April 26 2020 06: 15 New
    0
    China is an unreliable neighbor. There is no trust in him yet. And trust will arise only after several centuries of good neighborhood. However, I hope that the system of selection of the political elite formed in China will no longer allow evil madmen like Mao to lead the country. And leaders like Xi will have balanced policies that benefit China and its neighbors.

    About the huge number of Chinese who settled in Russia, they say only Muscovites who have not been beyond the Urals, and therefore full of a bunch of prejudices. Muscovites often have in their head some other made-up world that does not correspond to the consciousness of an ordinary citizen of Russia. When I’m in Moscow and talking with my Muscovite colleagues, I often hear from them some fantastic and idiotic questions about Siberia. And when I try to convince them, they argue with me that they know more about Siberia than me, although they have been there either once or on a business trip for 2-3 days.

    I myself am a Siberian, and I go to work all the way to Sakhalin. I spent my childhood in the Far East. There are nowhere Chinese in Siberia, except for Chinese tourists in Vladivostok and on Lake Baikal. But tourists are not those who are for permanent residence. Even the markets in the regional centers, by inertia called the Chinese, were left without the Chinese.
    1. ccsr
      ccsr April 26 2020 10: 53 New
      +1
      Quote: Aleksandr1971
      However, I hope that the system of selection of the political elite formed in China will no longer allow evil madmen like Mao to lead the country. And leaders like Xi will have balanced policies that benefit China and its neighbors.

      Dream.
      As far as is known, Xi extended his powers at the legislative level - or is it not so? Well, knowing how the Chinese love to grovel in power, it is not at all surprising that people like Mao can arise more than once.

      Quote: Aleksandr1971
      About the huge number of Chinese who settled in Russia, they say only Muscovites who have not been beyond the Urals, and therefore full of a bunch of prejudices.

      Because of your prejudices, you don’t understand that in Moscow there are a lot of people who came from those regions, and even a relative of Muscovites to a fig all over the country. So, in Moscow and the Moscow Region, it’s not village deaf boots from the wilderness that live, but a perfectly sane sixth or seventh part of the population of our country, which is aware of what is being done in our country.
      Quote: Aleksandr1971
      I myself am a Siberian, and I go to work all the way to Sakhalin.

      So people from those regions come to us, so we not only receive information from you, even if you are the son of an officer.
  • CSKA
    CSKA April 27 2020 15: 02 New
    0
    Quote: ccsr
    You used to live one day

    You hardly know how I'm used to living.
    Quote: ccsr
    but we already lost part of our territory after demarcation of borders.

    A trifle.
    Quote: ccsr
    which stimulates the sending of a huge number of Chinese to Russia, who not only work with us, but also receive our citizenship

    Have you been to the FMS for a long time? If you find at least one Chinese there, I will believe it. In general, statistics in the studio, how many Chinese have received Russian citizenship and what is the incentive for the Chinese to move to Russia, give examples. And then in my opinion this is your opinion, it is not clear what is based on.
    Quote: ccsr
    This is the basis on which China will try to achieve the exclusion of our territories in the future.

    I’ve heard about this for many years, especially Khramchikhin without saying for many years he insisted, now he has quieted down. At one time, the Chinese did not assimilate something, neither Koreans, nor Mongols, nor Uyghurs can still. And for some reason they didn’t populate the whole Far East 200-300 years ago.
    A popular horror story about the fact that literally a few years later the Chinese hordes rush through the border and capture the sparsely populated Russian territories beyond the Urals. Russian citizens have been scaring this myth for over 25 years. The north of the Middle Kingdom is populated, to put it mildly, sparsely - the Chinese prefer to live in warmth and by the sea (they can be understood). For what purpose it is not clear to them to capture our cold and deserted inhospitable taiga. Now our compatriots are only 35 thousand Chinese.
    Quote: ccsr
    If you do not expect this, then I am sorry for your children and grandchildren, because they just have to see it all with their own eyes.

    30 years have passed, and we are all told the same tales and now we’ll see all right soon. You have the mindset of the victim.
    Quote: ccsr
    Well, you can be complacent, but I do not advise you to forget about Father Damansky.

    Do you seriously believe that Father Damansky’s goal of the PRC was in the 60s?)))))) And it seems that you seriously believe that the PRC will go on a large-scale invasion? Naive person.
    1. ccsr
      ccsr April 27 2020 17: 35 New
      -1
      Quote: CSKA
      A trifle.

      This is how we will squander our territories with "little things". By the way, no demarcation has been carried out on the Sea of ​​Azov so far - here's a "trifle" for you.
      Quote: CSKA
      Have you been to the FMS for a long time?

      Sometimes I go to a Chinese wholesale center near Altufevs Highway, where they moved with VDNH, and as I have long noticed, the number of Chinese is not decreasing. Now they are expanding, but the coronavirus has hit them - it really is, the trade has stopped. So you will go to the FMS, but I see them with my own eyes and have known some for over ten years.
      Quote: CSKA
      And for some reason they didn’t populate the whole Far East 200-300 years ago.

      You don’t know their psychology - they never capture poorly developed territories, that’s why there are no Chinese farmers in the wastelands of America, but Chinatowns exist in all major cities of the USA and Canada.
      By the way, about 40% of China’s territory has not been developed at all, but the CCP doesn’t care because they have chosen a different strategy for resettling millions of Chinese - but you don’t know that.
      Quote: CSKA
      For what purpose it is not clear to them to capture our cold and deserted inhospitable taiga.

      And then why are they so roaming to Canada that they are already simply hated by all of them there?
      Quote: CSKA
      You have the mindset of the victim.

      Maybe, but I, unlike you, do not consider myself Batman, and therefore I study history to understand what threatens us.
      Quote: CSKA
      Do you seriously believe that Father Damansky's goal for the PRC was in the 60s?

      It was an attempt to prove to the CPSU that China will not treat us in awe and will not stop before seizing our territories. They showed the same thing to Vietnam in the seventies, but you don't know that, which is why your home-grown idea of ​​China paints in your brain the blissful pictures of the winner of the "world evil". I am afraid that your illusions will be trampled on in the most primitive way, and believe me, you will see it again.
      1. CSKA
        CSKA April 28 2020 17: 03 New
        0
        Quote: ccsr
        This is how we will squander our territories with "little things".

        So far we are only getting It was just during the USSR that they squandered.
        Quote: ccsr
        By the way, no demarcation has been carried out on the Sea of ​​Azov so far - here's a "trifle" for you.

        By the way, why do this if tomorrow we suddenly join the Zaporizhzhya region.
        Quote: ccsr
        Sometimes I go to a Chinese wholesale center near the Altufevs highway, where they moved with VDNH, and as I have long noticed, the number of Chinese is not decreasing.

        And that there are a million of them? It would be strange if they were few in the Chinese wholesale center.
        Quote: ccsr
        So you will go to the FMS, but I see them with my own eyes and have known some for over ten years.

        And you'd better go to the FMS with your scissors and look. This is a vivid indicator of how many Chinese people come to Russia to work and live, and not the trade mission of the PRC.
        Quote: ccsr
        You don’t know their psychology - they never capture poorly developed territories

        Well, why then didn’t they master well-developed Korea or Vietnam with a good climate? Just write nonsense.
        Quote: ccsr
        But Chinatowns exist in all major cities of the USA and Canada.

        What are you? I didn’t know directly.))))
        Quote: ccsr
        By the way, about 40% of China’s territory has not been developed at all, but the CCP doesn’t care because they have chosen a different strategy for resettling millions of Chinese - but you don’t know that.

        )))) And you certainly know their strategy. Personally, Xi Jinping told her to you? At least then you would logically think with your own head that you are writing. By your logic, they do not want to populate the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region and Inner Mongolia with a poor climate, but they want to taiga.
        Quote: ccsr
        And then why are they so roaming to Canada that they are already simply hated by all of them there?

        Yeah, straight the bar. Can it still flash with numbers? And of course you interviewed all Canadians personally.
        Quote: ccsr
        Maybe, but I, unlike you, do not consider myself Batman, and therefore I study history to understand what threatens us.

        You study poorly. The facts you do not have only speculation. And for your information, I’ve won the Olympiad in history.
        Quote: ccsr
        They showed the same thing to Vietnam in the seventies, but you don’t know

        Just nobody but you knows about the Sino-Vietnam War. One you are smart.
        Quote: ccsr
        this is why your home-grown idea of ​​China paints blissful images of the winner of "world evil" in your brain

        Rave?
        Quote: ccsr
        I'm afraid that your illusions will be trampled in the most primitive way, and believe me, you will still see it.

        Judging by your lack of logic, illusion and awe in you. And what will I see? War? Or how do you think China will connect these lands? You don’t even know the numbers. I wrote to you above over the past 30 years, 35 thousand Chinese have received citizenship.
        1. ccsr
          ccsr April 28 2020 18: 16 New
          +1
          Quote: CSKA
          So far we are only getting It was just during the USSR that they squandered.

          Do not lie, during the Soviet Union the original Russian lands were returned and, moreover, they acquired the Kaliningrad Region.
          Quote: CSKA
          And that there are a million of them?

          This is a specialized center, and there are still many of them and sells in ordinary markets - go to the Gardener and see for yourself.
          Quote: CSKA
          And you'd better go to the FMS with your scissors and look. This is a clear indicator of how many Chinese people come to Russia to work and live,

          Illegal factories in the Moscow region are constantly closed, and "tourists" from China work there, without registering with the Federal Migration Service.
          Quote: CSKA
          Well, why then didn’t they master well-developed Korea or Vietnam with a good climate? Just write nonsense.

          Vietnam itself was too tough for them, but Korea was already overpopulated, and they know who the Chinese are there, which is why they are not allowed to go there.
          Quote: CSKA
          And of course you know their strategy.

          Ever since the days of the great helmsman I know - here you guessed right.
          Quote: CSKA
          . And for your information, I’ve won the Olympiad in history.

          Probably it was during the exam. I sympathize with you - they presented it to you in a perverted form.
          Quote: CSKA
          I wrote to you above over the past 30 years, 35 thousand Chinese have received citizenship.

          Your primitive knowledge does not surprise me, but try to answer why there are tea towns in almost all countries of the world, but there are no Chinese cemeteries anywhere.
    2. Aleksandr1971
      Aleksandr1971 April 28 2020 10: 49 New
      0
      The scarecrows about the settlement of Russia by the Chinese have been over 100 years old. This was written by Bulgakov, Gumilyov, A. Tolstoy and A. Blok.
  • Tina freeman
    Tina freeman April 24 2020 19: 48 New
    -2
    Eka you about "Cossack Stan" bent. And what did my ancestors call each other and their people Cossack from time immemorial, and not 85 years at the behest of Kaganovich, as you deigned to express, and does not it count? If the power of the Russian Empire did not distinguish between Kyrgyz (Kyrgyz) and Cossacks (Kazakhs), this does not mean that my people did not have their own name, land, history and cultural heritage
    1. bayard
      bayard April 24 2020 21: 20 New
      0
      Quote: Tina Freeman
      Eka you about "Cossack Stan" bent.

      Why bend it if it is written on the map given by the author? Or do you not agree that ALL cities and villages in Semirechye, Orenburg region and throughout the Cossack camp were founded by our Cossacks? You will see the primary names of all your cities.
      Quote: Tina Freeman
      And, then, that my ancestors of each other and the people called their Cossack EI from time immemorial

      Well, if the ancestors called themselves that, then once before they still served. wink See my second post, there is about it.
      The words Türks and Cossacks in their ancient - semantic meaning, synonyms. yes Look at the "round" chess piece, what form does it have?
      LARGE TOWER.
      And the fortress towers strengthen the FORTRESS WALL.
      It was on such a wall - the Great Wall, and the ancestors of the Turks served.
      On the wall - with teeth to the south.
      Frontier Guardian of the Empire.
      "And the Turks are from the Russian clan, from fair-haired (red-haired) such a force, the descendants of a hero and a trot, the doubled root of a reliable essence ..." - from the inscription on the tombstone of Kyue Tegin. Written in Russian runes (as well as in Uyghur script and Chinese characters - three languages ​​of a single Empire). The history of the Turks is also described there - how the Russian clans came to the border with China and settled there as border guards.
      What next ...
      Next is an ethnographic joke:
      Somewhere far away in Central Asia ... the old aksakal turns to a young dzhigit:
      - Sinok, did you Kyz gyz?
      - Kyral.
      - And your father, Kyral gyz?
      - Kyral.
      - A grandfather, your grandfather Kyral gyz?
      - Of course kyral - there was a horse!
      - If the qyral Chiniy giz came, called KYRGYZ!

      Well, how can the young border guards on the Chinay border without a female affection?
      So they snatched their brides ... "or went to the side. But those who were KYRALI Chiniy gyz were called KYRGYZ. And if your ancestors really called themselves Cossacks / Kaisaks, then EXACTLY served - carried!
      And appearance is the result of cross-border cross-breeding.
      The Tatar / Uyghur language (I repeat once again) was for the Russian people of Siberia their own.
      And even at some time he became the LANGUAGE of the Army of the Great Empire.
      For Chingi - Khan is our hero and ancestor.
      Read my comment above.
      And in confirmation of this I can cite the verses of one of the Heroes of the War of 1812 Denis Ivanovich Davydov. Which was not only a direct descendant of Genghis Khan, but also of his grandson - Khan Batu. yes :

      Blessed memory of my ancestor Genghis Khan
      Grunt, mischievous with arshin mustache
      On a bumpkin horse like a whirlwind before thunders
      In a brilliant shell flew into an enemy camp
      And powerfully dissected with a tartar hand
      All that resisted the mighty Hero

      Blessed Pokkoy ... the same rude
      Like his grandfather - the cheeky Chings Khan
      In a catman a little among the swords smashing
      The hordes ruled in the fields a war thundering ...

      I burn with the same flame as Genghis Khan
      As my ancestor, my Batu, I hasten to swear
      But to me a gracious count in French robes
      To appear in the vanguard as a dandy for a walk ...
      To tie a frill, to correct a hairdress
      And the barbel itself ... Lindor show ...

      Pity the descendant of the poor Batu
      And for the check accept his poems bad ...

      And when someone starts to make me grimace with their lineage, I sometimes hum in response with an impudent look these verses ... a descendant of Genghis Khan. And Batu.

      And yet, in the 17th and even 18th centuries, the Kuban, Zaporizhzhya and even Don Cossacks in Russia (and not only) were sometimes also called CHERKESS TATARS. yes
      Well, I already wrote above that my grandfather spoke fluently several Turkic languages ​​/ dialects.
      And my godfather is the Bashkirs.
      Bashkirs in general, the most wonderful people in the world ... The Urals are just like us. wink
  • CSKA
    CSKA April 24 2020 12: 45 New
    -1
    Quote: Vasily50
    China in * superpower * even with the exertion of all who are called * Chinese * will never crawl through.

    What do you understand then as a "superpower" if the PRC does not fall under it?
    Quote: Vasily50
    Modern Chinese * yellow and narrow-eyed * have nothing to do with * Ancient China * DO NOT HAVE, they came on those lands.

    )))) Are these Han Chinese?
    Quote: Vasily50
    during excavations of which Mao’s wife’s watch ring was dug out

    Smiled
  • smart ass
    smart ass April 25 2020 16: 07 New
    0
    What are you talking about, I personally fly to China every year, so I’ll tell you in one seedy town called Yiwu, the industry of the entire Sverdlovsk region is concentrated. A market complex in Yiwu is the size of an average city in Russia that sells everything from stationery knives to high-precision electronics . Learn first trainers to sew then slander in China.
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 11: 01 New
      0
      Quote: Clever man
      concentrated industry throughout the Sverdlovsk region,

      Willingly I believe. Moreover, China is mocking us. We have built a car factory, only young people are recruiting there, they don’t take me or a classmate, even though we have been working as a car mechanic for more than a dozen years.
  • Vlad world
    Vlad world 4 May 2020 12: 34 New
    0
    Well, the fact that the "terracotta army and wall" is Mao's initiative, I agree with you.
    Could you show me where they got the information about the "watch"
  • Vlad world
    Vlad world 4 May 2020 17: 01 New
    0
    I agree with you about the terracotta army. You can also add a "wall".
    If you can source about the watch. To read.
  • Mar.Tirah
    Mar.Tirah April 24 2020 06: 27 New
    25
    Quote: Dmitry from Voronezh
    Well, it's time to get used to the new realities. China is a superpower and in the near future will only strengthen its influence.

    It’s time for Kazakhstan to get used to the new realities. Having gained independence as a result of the collapse of the USSR, it’s not enough to be proud and boast it by pressing Russians. Let them now try to protect it from a stronger candidate, as the USSR did by tipping them in the 60s?
  • Barmaleyka
    Barmaleyka April 24 2020 07: 47 New
    -7
    Quote: Dmitry from Voronezh
    China is a superpower

    and what is superpower? !!!!!
  • knn54
    knn54 April 24 2020 08: 08 New
    +4
    At one time, Ho Chi Minh expelled the huaqiao from Vietnam, recognizing them as the "fifth column".
    Today we have a vivid example of how the Albanians became dominant, tearing the cradle of Serbian statehood from Serbia.
    And to become a "superpower" military power and economic growth are not enough.
    The PRC has virtually no allies (except Pakistan), the yuan will not become a convertible currency in the foreseeable future.
    History shows that China achieved success either in alliance with the USSR or with the United States.
    The rest of the time he simply vegetated. Without financial injections, resources, technologies.
    1. fyvaprold
      fyvaprold April 24 2020 10: 07 New
      +1
      Quote: knn54
      The PRC has virtually no allies (except Pakistan), the yuan will not become a convertible currency in the foreseeable future.

      You just described the USSR. He, too, with real allies sparsely, the GDR, Cuba and ... all, perhaps, the rest are like that, fellow travelers. And the ruble has never been convertible. Moreover, the USSR was precisely a superpower. Perhaps your examples are not signs of "superpower"?
    2. CSKA
      CSKA April 24 2020 13: 13 New
      0
      Quote: knn54
      And to become a "superpower" military power and economic growth are not enough.

      This is just enough. With these two points you can have global influence. The concept of ally is very vague.
  • TermNachTer
    TermNachTer April 25 2020 15: 12 New
    0
    It is, of course, true, but this is another reason for the Kazakhs to think about who is their friend and who is not very good.
  • smart ass
    smart ass April 25 2020 15: 59 New
    -2
    Not for that the pipeline to China was pulled to resist.
  • Revolver
    Revolver April 24 2020 04: 52 New
    12
    China has territorial claims to all its neighbors. If a thread of tribal princelings even once took a vassal oath to the Chinese emperor many hundreds of years ago, China continues to consider the lands of this tribe its own. Even if this tribe has long been slaughtered by not very peaceful neighbors, such as the Tatar-Mongols, and they themselves have long been either also massacred, or driven out beyond the mountains-rivers. But on the map of the times of the emperor, the name of the river is painted in Chinese, which means it is China. By the way, they also consider the Far East and Siberia almost to the Urals to be Chinese lands, unjustly and forcibly torn away by the Russians, who took advantage of the temporary weakness of the Chinese Empire, and they mean someday "to restore historical justice."
    One consolation - China has never won wars against an external enemy. All the "great Chinese commanders", including the hyped Sun Tzu, became famous in China's internal conflicts. And so they were all beaten - from the Tatar-Mongols (and we can and who was before - I do not remember but to look for laziness) to the British, Russians, Japanese, and ending with the Vietnamese. They tried to fence themselves off from external opponents with a wall, but this did not help much.
    1. Same lech
      Same lech April 24 2020 05: 12 New
      +8
      China has territorial claims against all neighbors.
      And which of our neighbors do not have them smile to Russia for example.
      As soon as Russia ... Kazakhstan, including, will become defenseless from them, they will immediately pinch off a piece of territory for a piece.
    2. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee April 24 2020 05: 17 New
      +5
      Beijing territorial claims
      And to all neighboring countries!
    3. Lipchanin
      Lipchanin April 24 2020 05: 45 New
      0
      Quote: Nagan
      but it didn’t help much.

      But the Sumerians decided to adopt this experience, but as always, they did not succeed very much. lol
  • ssergey1978
    ssergey1978 April 24 2020 04: 59 New
    +2
    Since when has Kazakhstan become a rich country? What all Kazakh gaster left from Russia? Passing through the southern branch of the railway, I saw Kazakhs running at the stations to the Russian train with the hope of selling fake cognac, chocolate, some sort of sausage.
    1. Nastia makarova
      Nastia makarova April 24 2020 08: 06 New
      +6
      very rich Kazakhstan !!! people live poorly but they have a lot of minerals, and everything, like ours, gets the top
  • Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U April 24 2020 05: 06 New
    +8
    China had claims to the Union, but then some kind of Qazaqstan.
  • Thrifty
    Thrifty April 24 2020 05: 14 New
    +5
    The Chinese need to be firmly put in place! Their desire to dominate the region is very much like the habits of one small country in the Middle East, who also imagined themselves to be microbogs of local spill! Therefore, the Chinese need to be toughly made clear so as not to lavish on foreign lands, otherwise their eyes are ten times larger than their stomach!
    1. Tank hard
      Tank hard April 24 2020 07: 48 New
      +7
      Quote: Thrifty
      The Chinese need to be firmly put in place!

      Will you bet?
    2. Aleksandr1971
      Aleksandr1971 April 24 2020 07: 59 New
      +3
      Well put the Chinese in their place .... hard let them know ..... Shut off oil and gas to them ...... wassat
    3. Yaik Cossack
      Yaik Cossack April 25 2020 02: 25 New
      -1
      The Chinese are less dangerous to us than the Turks and Kazakhs
  • prapor55
    prapor55 April 24 2020 05: 59 New
    +1
    The last map with the names of the cities is correct, so as not to be forgotten. hi
    1. Vladimir61
      Vladimir61 April 24 2020 07: 45 New
      +2
      Quote: prapor55
      The last map with the names of the cities is correct, so as not to be forgotten.

      Especially correct, on the map of Prezhevalsk - like in a movie, in mirror image.
  • kyznets
    kyznets April 24 2020 06: 04 New
    +8
    There has always been and always will be the desire of states to grow their territory at the expense of neighbors by right of the mighty. Unless, of course, this is contrary to his moral, ideological or other principles. It's like Ohm's law, only in politics. Why stand with posters? You need to stand with tanks and missiles. How can Kazakhstan defend its territory? This is what needs to be demonstrated. And then they stand with notes on plywood "Know that China expansion!". And China is a geopolitical and military monster; it will immediately think about it and begin to apologize !!! It is necessary to conduct normal such military exercises on the border to repel the potential aggression of a potential enemy. We got used to communicating with Russia from the position of an independent state with the expectation of patience and its attitude towards Kazakhstan as a historically fraternal state. And with China naked "show-off" does not pass. The one who pays calls the tune, the one who is stronger is right (that is the territory before Balkhash, and maybe even further). It is clear to everyone that if Kazakhstan cannot defend its independence by military, economic or political means, then it will lose it, along with its territory. Now only a game on the contradictions between Russia and China allows Kazakhstan to simply be. The situation or the alignment will change and that's it. There will be no "rich" or "strong" Kazakhstan, no one. It is sad to talk about it because it can only be if Russia becomes weaker, or Kazakhstan does something completely ugly against Russia or China. In any case, any change in the balance in the region is bad for Russia, in contrast to China. The Anglo-Saxons or simply the Europeans, in place of Russia, would have long ago reached an agreement with China and would have divided the territories of Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, and other independent states of Central Asia as pizza with beer and jokes. smile
    1. Kasym
      Kasym April 24 2020 17: 02 New
      +1
      Nikolai Nikolaevich, you have to live here (in Kazakhstan or Central Asia) in order to understand why the Chinese are not up to "conquering territories" here. There are many reasons, but I will explain one of the main ones.
      Kazakhstan and Central Asia border with China due to the largest autonomy of the PRC, XUAR. There are about 30 mil. Turkic-speaking Uighurs live. What do you think will happen if hostilities start between the ROK (or CA) and the PRC? The XUAR will start to "burn" - the Uighurs do not well "digest" the Han people. If you have ever been to Urumqi or Kashi, then it is immediately noticeable. The Chinese cross over to the other side of the street if there is a crowd of young Uighurs ahead. There they sometimes throw themselves at the police with knives. What if we give them machines?
      The supply of raw materials, etc. will be blocked. (55 billion cubic meters of gas - this is a third of gas exports - and 10 million tons of oil). It seems that the entire Muslim world will join this boycott.
      The geography of the border, the mountains, there are only two places that can miss heavy equipment. In addition to Domansky, there were also events near Lake Zhalanashkol (for some reason, many forget about it, remembering only Domansky). They perfectly showed what mountains mean. Yes, and in Afghanistan it was visible - the number of hard to crush there. By the way, our shepherds (Kazakhs on both sides) graze cattle on the border.
      And does Beijing need such hemorrhoids? As if the question of Tibet, Inner Mongolia, Manchuria and southern territorial disputes had not yet arisen. The PRC will instantly find itself in isolation, which it will not withstand for a long time. Chinese strategists understand all this, so they were one of the first to resolve issues with us on the borders - here we deal with the Uzbeks more time. hi
      1. Yaik Cossack
        Yaik Cossack April 25 2020 01: 51 New
        +4
        I have been there more than once. Street gangsters are not a criterion. The Chinese will work out your “terrible” Uigurs in a maximum of 10 years. And another 15 million Chinese will be resettled in Xinjiang. “You scare, but we are not scared”))) Islamic terrorism, the Chinese have stolen at times. They will also buy and stomp Kazakhstan. Which, in principle, is not scary for us.
        They ousted Russians, discriminated, and refused two state languages. - now eat yourself. In Russia, the regime for the return of Russians is facilitated, and with every Russian who has left Kazakhstan, we have fewer reasons to fit in for you))) let the Americans and Turks help you
      2. kyznets
        kyznets April 27 2020 16: 06 New
        0
        Dear Dauren! What is 30 million Uyghurs for China? Do not make me laugh. Where were they during the cultural revolution in China? They sat quietly, like a mouse under a broom. Beggars, powerless, quiet and hungry. And the wars are not the same as those that were in the 60s and 70s. Tanks and infantry will go on the ground scorched by aircraft, rockets and artillery. Although China certainly will not do this, again, if something out of the ordinary does not happen. They are used to doing everything with the hands of the victims themselves. Yes, they will simply create conditions under which your leadership itself, or the population itself, will decide to join. This is China. This is not Central Asia, not Kazakhstan and not the Russian Federation, and not even Europe with their Masonic plans. They think in other temporal, moral, and philosophical categories. And they do not make plans for a year or even ten years. They plan for 50-100 years. Whose capital is currently invested in your economy? Who is investing, who is lobbying? After 50 years, and maybe much earlier, Kazakh Uighurs, Dungans, and some Kazakhs may themselves want to go to China. This is a matter of political technology. And weapons will then be delivered already from China for them - for the separatists. A double edged sword. And the only guarantee of independence is a strong army and a strong independent economy. Well, the idea uniting all - economic, political, religious. Now China simply has other plans for Kazakhstan, not military ones. Russia generally has no plans for Russia itself; therefore, it doesn’t care about Kazakhstan at all, why an extra headache? There, they don’t know what to do with Trans-Ural Russia to the Pacific Ocean, and there are also many questions with pre-Ural. But Russia is still developing and strengthening the army. And who needs teeth, and who needs an ass. Not always on time and not always when needed. But still he does.
  • Talgarets
    Talgarets April 24 2020 06: 08 New
    +6
    I live in the city of Talgar, Almaty region. And I don't want to "end up" in China at all
    1. Kasym
      Kasym April 24 2020 17: 08 New
      +1
      The author clearly does not know our moods. Bullshit and speculation, and some are crucified here. It’s ridiculous.
      1. Yaik Cossack
        Yaik Cossack April 25 2020 01: 52 New
        +3
        We all know do not make the audience laugh. And we learn from our mistakes, although slowly yet
    2. Yaik Cossack
      Yaik Cossack April 25 2020 02: 10 New
      +2
      Dear Talgarets, do you really have a difference - where to be a second-class person, in China or Kazakhstan? But in my opinion - there is no difference. Everything, wake up, there is no single USSR and the Talgar village. It ended. In Kazakhstan, your children have no future. They will be forced to speak Kazakh and be discriminated against by a national minority.
      1. Talgarets
        Talgarets April 25 2020 05: 25 New
        +3
        Nationalism in Kazakhstan is available. I have encountered its manifestations more than once. Only a second-class person I don’t feel myself. How can you say that I don’t care where to live !!! I take this as an insult. Three generations of my ancestors lived in Kazakhstan, I was born here, I have lived my whole life. This is my homeland. I recall my biography, in a class of 18 people were representatives of 5 (!) Nationalities, there were no conflicts about this. I graduated, got a job without any problems. He worked for many years at one of the largest natural monopolies in Kazakhstan in senior positions. I will say without exaggerating, I was respected there, regardless of nationality. He went to the private sector, where they lured me with more money. What will be the big question in the future, bad trends are being felt. But I do not want to leave here, and nowhere. I respect Russia as a historical homeland.
        PS Talgar used to be the village of Sofia, and received its real name from the village, whose ruins are located south of the modern city.
        PP.S. The Voennoye Obozreniye website has been blocked in Kazakhstan for propaganda of xenophobia, such as the one present in the comments to this article. I access this via a VPN service courtesy of an antivirus lab. Do you know a lot of Kazakhstani sites promoting xenophobia?
        1. ccsr
          ccsr April 25 2020 11: 38 New
          +2
          Quote: Talgarets
          PP.S. The website "Voennoye Obozreniye" in Kazakhstan is blocked for propaganda of xenophobia,

          This is not so at all - I think that due to the fact that the VO site is popular among Russian-speaking citizens of Kazakhstan, especially among those who served in the SA and worked in the military-industrial complex, it was specially blocked. The same picture is in Ukraine - there are many Russian-language media blocked.
          Quote: Talgarets
          Do you know a lot of Kazakhstan sites promoting xenophobia?

          Do you think that we care about Kazakhstan as a leader in the production and creation of weapons or technological progress? Kazakhstan doesn’t interfere us either in the cultural or in the technical field, that’s why no one but the former citizens of Kazakhstan visits the sites, and therefore their role in the life of Russia is very insignificant. So it is appropriate to say that we are not at all interested in Kazakh sites, but the fact that Russian people are leaving there, apparently will not be able to hide.
        2. Yaik Cossack
          Yaik Cossack April 25 2020 11: 40 New
          +5
          I have a good idea of ​​the Kazakh realities, though more than the West. Vyrs, lived and worked there. There are many xenophobic sites in Kazakhstan. And not only sites. The Kazakh elite itself is anti-Russian. They don’t really need this and sites are needed)))
          You probably know no worse than me who organized the bloody recent pogroms by the Kazakh Dungans and where did the masses of armed pogroms come from? And how the police covered them.
          If systematic derusification is simply called a "bad trend", then why did the departure of the non-Kazakhs accelerate. I fully admit that your employers treated you well. Specialists are needed, otherwise production will fall apart. For some time. But with the preparation of Kazakh personnel, Russians are being cleaned. Paperwork has already been translated into Kazakh. And certainly the tip is completed according to the tribalist principle.
        3. Malibu
          Malibu April 25 2020 11: 52 New
          +3
          Quote: Talgarets
          PP.S. The Voennoye Obozreniye website has been blocked in Kazakhstan for propaganda of xenophobia, such as the one present in the comments to this article. I access this via a VPN service courtesy of an antivirus lab.

          You really surprised me .. There it turns out, but the men didn’t know .. bully
          Quote: Talgarets
          Do you know a lot of Kazakhstan sites promoting xenophobia?

          I know such Russophobia .. But I didn’t see Jews in Kazakhstan. Except for the baby Tony Blair, the chief adviser to the brightest Sultan and Juz Nazarbay ..)))))
          Quote: ccsr
          So it is appropriate to say that we are not at all interested in Kazakh sites, but the fact that Russian people are leaving there, apparently will not be able to hide.

          Exactly so, I know the Kazakhs like no one else .. They are smiling, but then .. They liked to sit in the oil and gas deposits of uranium discovered and developed by the entire Soviet Union .. And before that the sheep were grazed .. Forgive me, but It was hi ..
  • sagitch
    sagitch April 24 2020 06: 09 New
    20
    First, the Kazakhs drove the Germans, then the Russians. It turned out that now there was nobody to work, wherever you throw, everywhere godfather, brother and matchmaker. The Chinese arrived and ... now let them not whine. They themselves have achieved this.
    1. Tina freeman
      Tina freeman April 24 2020 09: 51 New
      +2
      Hello. Judging by your logic, "First the Kazakhs drove out the Germans, then the Russians.", Were the ethnic Germans who moved to the FRG in every possible way oppressed and expelled from the Russian Federation by the Russians?
    2. Malibu
      Malibu April 25 2020 11: 57 New
      0
      Quote: sagitch
      First, the Kazakhs drove the Germans, then the Russians. It turned out that now there was nobody to work, wherever you throw, everywhere godfather, brother and matchmaker. The Chinese arrived and ... now let them not whine. They themselves have achieved this.

      Everything is abandoned in Northern and further Kazakhstan .. They drove out, but they themselves rushed to the deposits and sit there .. When the Chinese begin to wet them they will run to Russia .. And what can we do?
  • Oleg Skvortsov
    Oleg Skvortsov April 24 2020 06: 18 New
    13
    Excuse me, what other Kazakhs in the 18th century, and in the 19th too? The Kyrgyz-Kaisak nomadic tribes walked through the lands — they grazed horses, rams and camels, and they had no land. Uzbeks and Tajiks were sedentary - they built cities - they had statehood, and then Russian imperial troops came and set up their garrisons. My grandfather was born in such a garrison in 1905. Take statistics of the national composition of that period for those lands - there is not even a mention of Kazakhs there. It was the Soviet government that defined the nation — the Kazakhs, gave statehood, built cities, and industry. This is the land of the protectorate of Russia, the Chinese did not stand nearby
    1. Lipchanin
      Lipchanin April 24 2020 06: 41 New
      +6
      Quote: Oleg Skvortsov
      It was the Soviet government that defined the nation — the Kazakhs, gave statehood, built cities, and industry.

      They didn’t even have their alphabet
      Look at the leftmost poster
      1. pru-pavel
        pru-pavel April 24 2020 06: 59 New
        -4
        We actually didn’t have ours either. Cyrillic is an alphabet developed by the Greeks for the Bulgarians based on the Greek alphabet. In Russia, she came with Christianity from the Bible.
        1. Lipchanin
          Lipchanin April 24 2020 07: 02 New
          +8
          Quote: pru-pavel
          We actually didn’t have ours either. Cyrillic is an alphabet developed by the Greeks for the Bulgarians based on the Greek alphabet.


          How old is our Cyrillic alphabet and how old is the Kazakh language?
          1. pru-pavel
            pru-pavel April 24 2020 07: 06 New
            -4
            What difference does it make? Cyrillic is also much inferior in antiquity to Latin and especially Greek writing (which are ancient for millennia). But that doesn't mean much.
            1. Lipchanin
              Lipchanin April 24 2020 07: 17 New
              +4
              So we are talking about Kazakhs.
              We brought them the Cyrillic alphabet.
              Recently. By historical standards, yesterday
              in ancient Latin and especially Greek writing (which are ancient for millennia).

              And cuneiform is still ancient
              1. pru-pavel
                pru-pavel April 24 2020 07: 19 New
                -2
                Well, I answered. In another post, yes. We seem to have brought the Cyrillic alphabet to them. As the Bulgarians brought it to us once. But still, before the Cyrillic alphabet, they already had Arabic script.
              2. Talgarets
                Talgarets April 24 2020 09: 41 New
                +5
                In fact, among the Turks, writing was in the 9-10th centuries
                1. The comment was deleted.
                2. Aleksandr1971
                  Aleksandr1971 April 24 2020 13: 28 New
                  +2
                  The Türks refused cuneiform because of its inconvenience. The Eastern Slavs and the Germans also had their own runic script before borrowing from the Greeks and Latins. And runic writing was also uncomfortable.

                  But in general, I think that the transition of Kazakhstan to the Latin alphabet will not improve the integration of Kazakhstan into the Western world. The integration process does not really depend on this. For example, all of Africa writes in Latin. But no one in the West thinks Africans for people (in fact, and not legally).

                  But on the other hand, such a transition is a clear signal to Russia that Kazakhstan is an ally of Russia, it is not quite friendly towards Russia. It is as if the wife (or husband) with a living spouse openly would begin to send compliments to someone else with hints of a future relationship.
                  1. pru-pavel
                    pru-pavel April 25 2020 06: 45 New
                    -3
                    As for the writing of the Eastern Slavs - this is not confirmed by science. This is indicated only by Slavic new religious movements and alternative historians. This is just a hypothesis in science, so it was impossible to say for sure whether it was or was not, at least we cannot know if it was like Germanic runes.
                    1. Vlad world
                      Vlad world 4 May 2020 13: 11 New
                      0
                      Well, a lot of things are not confirmed by science. The officialdom in historical science lies a lot. Especially about the history of the Slavs-Russians. Political order since the time of Peter. Permanent both from the liberals and the Bolsheviks.
                3. Yaik Cossack
                  Yaik Cossack April 25 2020 02: 41 New
                  +1
                  Türks. - This is a large language family. Like the Slavs. Like the Indo-Europeans. Here we are the Germans - Indo-Europeans. So what - is all German German ours? ))) Russians and Poles are Slavs, and more sworn enemies must be sought. Serbs and Croats too. So if runes appeared in the Turkic Kaganate, this does not mean at all that Kazakhs also invented runes))))
                  1. Aleksandr1971
                    Aleksandr1971 April 25 2020 09: 43 New
                    -1
                    The Türks are not a language family, as are the Slavs. Turki is a group of languages ​​in the Altai language family.

                    But you are right that it is impossible to achieve (of which there are few) and harmfulness (of which there are many) of the Turks to transfer to modern Kazakhs.
            2. Tank hard
              Tank hard April 24 2020 07: 51 New
              +2
              Quote: pru-pavel
              What difference does it make?

              There is still a difference.
          2. pru-pavel
            pru-pavel April 24 2020 07: 08 New
            -6
            The Kazakh alphabet in the Arabic script began to be used on the territory of Kazakhstan for recording Turkic texts from the second half of the XNUMXth century after the conversion of the population of the state of Karakhanids to Islam, which included the lands of southern Kazakhstan, to Islam.
            Not much then later than ours. Just when they became part of the USSR they abandoned the Arabic alphabet
            1. Tank hard
              Tank hard April 24 2020 07: 52 New
              +3
              Quote: pru-pavel
              Just when they became part of the USSR they abandoned the Arabic alphabet

              Why do you think so?
              1. pru-pavel
                pru-pavel April 24 2020 07: 57 New
                -4
                Therefore, why did the Turks switch to the Latin alphabet, also the Vietnamese, Filipinos, Indonesians and many others. For reasons of convenience and practicality. Now they are moving to the Latin alphabet for example.
                1. Lipchanin
                  Lipchanin April 24 2020 08: 02 New
                  +7
                  Quote: pru-pavel
                  . Now they are moving to the Latin alphabet for example.

                  About this and talk.
                  When you don’t use your own, used for centuries, then constantly switch from one to another, this is the norm
                  And soon they will switch to hieroglyphs
                  1. pru-pavel
                    pru-pavel April 24 2020 08: 06 New
                    -7
                    They still went to the Latin alphabet during the USSR. In general, Latin is a beautifully designed writing system.
                    For example, a capital word, try to read it right away
                2. Tank hard
                  Tank hard April 24 2020 09: 51 New
                  +2
                  Quote: pru-pavel
                  Now they are moving to the Latin alphabet for example.

                  Or maybe it's time for the hieroglyphs? Practically the same .., in the future. wink
                  1. pru-pavel
                    pru-pavel April 24 2020 09: 55 New
                    -2
                    Seriously, it’s not practical. Hieroglyphs are generally complete archaic (invented by the Egyptians under the pharaohs) and a complete inconvenience, China cannot leave them purely for political reasons. Because the so-called dialects of the Chinese language differ some among themselves many times stronger than for example Russian is different from English, German and Spanish. Well, some kind of tradition affects them. The Japanese, too, are tormented, but not as much as China, and syllabic scripts have already been developed there. When learning the Chinese language, by the way, now there is nowhere without the Latin alphabet. Children learn standard Chinese in Latin transcription schools - they cannot immediately know thousands of hieroglyphs and have to start with the Latin alphabet (Ping Yin), then gradually switch to hieroglyphs as they learn, this is such a perversion.
                    1. Tank hard
                      Tank hard April 24 2020 10: 01 New
                      +3
                      Quote: pru-pavel
                      Seriously, it’s not practical

                      Then why are you here on the forum, write the Cyrillic alphabet in Russian, write the Latin alphabet, is it more convenient and practical for you? Maybe you made a mistake at all? You need a forum on the Polish, or to teach the Chinese the mind, tell them how wrong they are with the hieroglyphs. wink
                      1. pru-pavel
                        pru-pavel April 24 2020 10: 05 New
                        -3
                        I have a Russian native. It’s convenient for me to write on it because it’s usual, although I am well aware of the many shortcomings of the Russian language and its immaturity and the linguistic processes that are taking place in it, and the Russian language does not imply a different writing system. The Latin alphabet, by the way, is absolutely monstrous. Here Czech and Slovak are quite successful.
                      2. Tank hard
                        Tank hard April 24 2020 10: 19 New
                        +6
                        Quote: pru-pavel
                        I have a Russian native.

                        Novodvorskaya too.
                      3. pru-pavel
                        pru-pavel April 24 2020 10: 20 New
                        -5
                        Yes, and you too
                    2. fyvaprold
                      fyvaprold April 24 2020 10: 46 New
                      +1
                      Quote: pru-pavel
                      report on the many shortcomings of the Russian language and its immaturity

                      You will not be pampered with examples? I want to learn terribly about the shortcomings and immaturity of the Russian language.
                    3. pru-pavel
                      pru-pavel April 24 2020 10: 51 New
                      -8
                      "Night. Knocking on the hut.
                      - Grandfather, do you need firewood?
                      - Нет.
                      In the morning my grandfather woke up - no firewood. "

                      In general, there are many of them and there are many grammatical homonyms. And sophisticated archaic grammar.
                      "-Do you get enough sleep in the morning?
                      -Where do I sleep? "(The person is not free-flowing)

                      Do you mind constitutional amendments?
                      answer options:
                      1) yes, do not mind
                      2) no, not against
                      3) no, not against it.

                      The same text in Russian and English, in the English version will be on average almost one and a half times shorter. When you know English more or less tolerably, you quickly understand how many problems exist in Russian. In general, the Russian language is one of the most archaic in the aggregate of properties. About this, even academician Zaliznyak spoke, the luminary of Russian linguistics.
                    4. fyvaprold
                      fyvaprold April 24 2020 10: 58 New
                      +5
                      Quote: pru-pavel
                      "Night. Knocking on the hut.
                      - Grandfather, do you need firewood?
                      - Нет.
                      In the morning my grandfather woke up - no firewood. "

                      In general, there are many of them and there are many grammatical homonyms. And sophisticated archaic grammar.
                      "-Do you get enough sleep in the morning?
                      -Where do I sleep? "(The person is not free-flowing)

                      In your opinion, are these shortcomings? For me, this is a sign of the richness of the language. And if you need simplicity, then you can communicate in some programming language, they are much easier than even English. laughing
                    5. pru-pavel
                      pru-pavel April 24 2020 11: 01 New
                      -5
                      Wealth is an unscientific concept. In general, the Russian language is very average in complexity. In the same Archin language, a verb can have up to 1.5 million forms (imagine what kind of wealth, but we don’t even have hundreds of forms). The Russian language did not even lie next to it. The same English is richer than Russian, for example, in the number of words a little richer in the number of sounds, the number of verb tenses (but this is not what makes it interesting). But in fact, to provide the main functions of the language, this is not good.
                    6. fyvaprold
                      fyvaprold April 24 2020 11: 07 New
                      +5
                      Quote: pru-pavel
                      The same English is richer than Russian.

                      Truth? You either do not speak Russian well, or you speak some special English. laughing As an example of complexity, I can cite Abazinsky, which is almost impossible to learn in adulthood. As for English, it is to some extent an artificial language, resulting from the merger of the greatly simplified Celtic, Latin, German, French and a number of Scandinavian ones. Read English poetry and compare it with Russian or French.
                    7. pru-pavel
                      pru-pavel April 24 2020 11: 10 New
                      -1
                      I gave an example of specific sections in which English is more complex. But then again, I am not saying that he is cool. This is just a fact. In Slavic languages ​​besides Bulgarian archaic synthetic grammar. All other European languages ​​in one way or another pass to the analytical language system. As for the history of English, by the way, you are wrong. This language has always been independent. But they always borrowed a lot, from Celtic in English very little by the way. Literally on the fingers you can
                    8. Tank hard
                      Tank hard April 25 2020 11: 18 New
                      +1
                      Quote: pru-pavel
                      I gave an example of specific sections in which English is more complex.

                      Linguists say something else. This is just a fact. wink
                    9. pru-pavel
                      pru-pavel April 25 2020 11: 21 New
                      -3
                      It is unlikely that you are familiar with the work of normal linguists. Yes, and what I called elementary google. How many verb tenses (standard 12. In general, with obsolete ones up to 26) What vocabulary. How many sounds. 45 in English versus 42 in Russian. Etc.
                    10. Tank hard
                      Tank hard April 25 2020 11: 24 New
                      +1
                      Quote: pru-pavel
                      It is unlikely that you are familiar with the work of normal linguists

                      I have a spouse, linguist, English, German, Italian ... But apparently she is not a normal linguist. laughing Farewell...
                    11. pru-pavel
                      pru-pavel April 25 2020 11: 31 New
                      -2
                      Watch your spouse better. If she even deceives you in such elementary matters, then for the rest it’s generally scary to imagine
                    12. Tank hard
                      Tank hard April 25 2020 17: 44 New
                      +1
                      Quote: pru-pavel
                      Watch your spouse better. If she even deceives you in such elementary matters, then for the rest it’s generally scary to imagine

                      So you showed all your mighty intellect. Teach your spiders.
          3. Aleksandr1971
            Aleksandr1971 April 24 2020 13: 32 New
            -5
            pru-pavel speaks more convincingly. Apparently he is more in the subject than fyvaprold
    2. Revolver
      Revolver April 24 2020 18: 56 New
      +5
      Quote: pru-pavel
      The same text in Russian and English, in the English version will be on average almost one and a half times shorter. When you know English more or less tolerably, you quickly understand how many problems exist in Russian.


      With just one word of 3 (three) letters, or rather, the root with the use of appropriate prefixes and suffixes can be expressed as much as English with all its 4 (four) letter words does not work out closely. And even if it works out, the phrase will be much longer. I declare this as fluent in English. I will not give examples, since some modders are very inclined to ban me. In general, questions of linguistics are not relevant to the topic.
      wink
    3. malyvalv
      malyvalv April 25 2020 16: 47 New
      0
      NATO experts once conducted a study of which language is more suitable for transmitting information. Compression and concreteness were required, which can be important in the event of hostilities.
      Russian was somewhere in the middle. Not the best, but not the worst. But experts noted that in extreme situations, Russians are able to compress and shorten verbal information without losing meaning to record levels.
  • malyvalv
    malyvalv April 25 2020 16: 41 New
    +1
    An Englishman who knows Russian can also appreciate all the problems of English.
    And there they are visible and invisible.
  • Tank hard
    Tank hard April 24 2020 10: 53 New
    +2
    Quote: fyvaprold
    I want to learn terribly about the shortcomings and immaturity of the Russian language.

    There would probably be Pushkin, Tolstoy and others would answer more precisely, but alas, they died a long time ago. hi
  • kyznets
    kyznets April 27 2020 16: 21 New
    0
    Immaturity of the Russian language compared to which? What do you think is mature? Very interesting! No kidding, just curious!
  • pru-pavel
    pru-pavel April 27 2020 19: 36 New
    -2
    The most mature is still English. It has come a very long way of development, has changed a lot, absorbed from other languages ​​one of the most flexible languages ​​with the richest literature and community. You can read everything in English. Unfortunately, not in Russian. Many archaic features that persist in Slavic languages ​​in other Indo-European have already died in the 3-10 centuries AD (this is due to history and geography. And not with the fact that someone is advanced, but someone is backward) Romance languages ​​are also quite mature. Although there are rather cumbersome and inconvenient verb structures. In Italian for example. Italian for example sins like Slavic with double or even triple negation. "I also DO NOT do anything" the Italians will have "I DO NOT also do ANYTHING" In general, English and French are very practical and mature languages, since they were the languages ​​of world communication, plus they are lively. They have come a long way. Slavic, by and large, represent in their structure the highly simplified ancient Indo-European languages, of course, with a new pronunciation and vocabulary
  • Oleg Skvortsov
    Oleg Skvortsov April 24 2020 08: 28 New
    0
    Pavel. But nothing that Kazakhs in the 10th century did not exist? Are you a victim of the exam?
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. Oleg Skvortsov
        Oleg Skvortsov April 24 2020 08: 38 New
        +3
        Pavel, I don’t know for your thoughts - you can think anything, even in houses of sorrow they think about something. Take the story in your hands and learn - where were the Kazakhs? in the 10th century
        1. pru-pavel
          pru-pavel April 24 2020 08: 40 New
          -1
          According to the main version, the word "қазақ" in translation from the ancient Turkic language means - "free, free, independent person, a good man" [26].

          In Muslim written sources, the word is found in an anonymous Turkic-Arabic dictionary, probably compiled in Egypt, known from the manuscript of 1245 and published by M. Houtsm in Leiden in 1894, with the meaning “nomad”, “wanderer”.


          Kyrgyz-Kaysak steppe
          on the map of 1793
          In tsarist Russia and in Soviet times from 1734 to 1925, the current Kazakhs were called Kyrgyz-Kaisaks or Kyrgyz, according to the official version, then this was done so as not to confuse the Kazakhs with the Cossacks. Until 1734, Kazakhs were called Cossacks, and the Kazakh Khanate was the Cossack Horde.

          However, in the literature and documents of the Russian state of the XVI-XVII centuries, the ethnonym Cossack was also used in relation to the Kazakhs. For example, the Siberian chronicler of the first half of the 27th century Savva Yesipov, reporting on the origin of Kuchum Khan, calls the Kazakh Khanate “Cossack Horde” [XNUMX].

          As early as 1827, A. I. Levshin argued that "the Kyrgyz is the name of a people of a completely different ... the name of the Cossacks ... belongs to the Kyrgyz-Kaisak hordes from the beginning of their existence, they do not call themselves otherwise" [28].
          In the book of the Russian ethnographer and geographer E. K. Meyendorf “Travel from Orenburg to Bukhara”, written at the beginning of the XNUMXth century, it is noted that “they [Kazakhs] do not call themselves Kyrgyz, but they call them Cossacks, which means“ rider “- according to some, “warrior” - according to others. They claim that the Bashkirs are called them Kyrgyz, but they don’t know where this word came from. ”

          The historian G.V. Vernadsky in his work “Mongols and Russia” (1943) points out: “The Kazakh form, now officially adopted in the Soviet Union, is a variant of the word Cossack, which in several Turkic dialects means“ free man “,“ free adventurer “and , hence, the “resident of the border strip”. In its main meaning, this word was used to refer to both groups of Tatar, Ukrainian and Russian settlers (Cossacks), as well as the whole Central Asian people of the Kyrgyz (Kazakhs) ”[29].

          On April 19, 1925, the 5th All-Kazakh Congress of Soviets adopted a resolution "On the restoration of the name" Cossacks "for Kyrgyz nationality." To restore the phonetically closest name to the name of the Kyrgyz people, the 5th All-Kazakh Congress of Soviets decided: henceforth, the Kyrgyz should be called Cossacks [30]. From that moment, the historical correct ethnonym Cossack began to be used in the USSR, the Kyrgyz Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic was renamed the Kazak Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic. Until 1936, reference books also include the term Kyrgyz Cossack [31], which was used to clarify the term to avoid confusion with the Cossacks.

          The modern form of the ethnonym Kazakh was established in February 1936 shortly [32] before the transformation of the Kazak (and from February 5, 1936 Kazakh) ASSR into the Kazakh SSR in December 1936.
    2. Aleksandr1971
      Aleksandr1971 April 24 2020 13: 37 New
      0
      You, Oleg Skvortsov, said this as if you were punishing pru-pavel, and not so much for the USE as for the very fact of the existence of Kazakhs that you do not like.

      Of course, there were no Kazakhs as a nation in the 10th century. But there were Turkic-speaking people who were the ancestors of the Kazakhs.

      By the way, there were no Russians in the 10th century either. But the Russians, like the Kazakhs, also did not come from the laboratory, but from the ancient eastern Slavic tribes.
    3. Kasym
      Kasym April 24 2020 17: 55 New
      -1
      Oleg. "Issyk letter". A runic inscription on a silver bowl, found in the necropolis of the "golden man" near Alma-Ata: "The four cardinal points of the Sangly tribes sing. Three hundred who mourn the oath drink." 6-5 century BC
      If you look at the territory of the former USSR, then the largest cultural layer of land is found in Central Asia. In Bukhara it is 20 meters of land. At this depth are found objects of human activity.
      Cossack, Yesaul, Ataman, etc. - these are Turkic words, not Slavic ones. Why's that? Actually, we are not talking KAZAKH, but KAZAK.
      If you do not know, then the Kazakhs consist of three zhuzes + 2 genera (torus and skin - Genghisides and descendants of the prophet). And these zhuzes consist of tribes, which sometimes have different roots (their own, Mongolian, Altai, Siberian, Slavic, Arab, Finno-Ugric, Caucasian, etc.). That such an international was formed in the Middle Ages. hi
      1. Yaik Cossack
        Yaik Cossack April 25 2020 02: 00 New
        +2
        Well, why didn’t you make 2 state languages ​​in Kazakhstan? Since you are close to the Slavs. All this gumilyism is a deception of naive yorys
      2. kyznets
        kyznets April 27 2020 16: 37 New
        0
        During the construction of the metro, Moscow also found objects of human activity. And the great depth in Bukhara and Central Asia is explained much more simply - the content of sand and dust in the air is much greater than in the forest and forest-steppe regions of the European part of Russia. And on the Nazca plateau is only a couple of meters.
  • Talgarets
    Talgarets April 24 2020 09: 36 New
    +2
    There are not many nations on our planet that can boast of their "own" alphabet.
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. Aleksandr1971
        Aleksandr1971 April 24 2020 09: 44 New
        -4
        Are you an adviser and a Semite? wassat
    2. The comment was deleted.
  • Talgarets
    Talgarets April 24 2020 09: 22 New
    +1
    Excuse me, what other Kazakhs in the 18th century, and in the 19th too?

    As early as 1827, A. I. Levshin argued that "the Kyrgyz is the name of a people of a completely different ... the name of the Cossacks ... belongs to the Kyrgyz-Kaisak hordes from the beginning of their existence, they do not call themselves otherwise."
    It doesn’t matter what representatives of other nations call a specific people, we call the Han Chinese the Chinese, this does not mean that the Han does not exist.
    rams and camels, and they had no land.

    Flying through the air?

    Take statistics of the national composition of that period for those lands - there is not even a mention of Kazakhs
    Accept the Kyrgyz-Kaisak = Kazakh, and everything will become clear

    This is a land protectorate of Russia

    Oh?

    If anything, I am ethnic Russian, I have been living in Kazakhstan for 40 years, I have seen everything, but I can’t stand nationalism, both Russian and Kazakh. hi
    1. Yaik Cossack
      Yaik Cossack April 24 2020 17: 08 New
      +5
      Kazakhstan is a country of Kazakh nationalism. Russians from the very beginning were subjected to cunning discriminatory restrictions. They are almost no longer in the state apparatus or in the organs. Massively renamed Russian names. Yes, until there were pogroms. So they were dangerous to Nazarbayev in the 90s, when there were still many Russians. And now, when the share of Russians was reduced by 2 times by mild ethnocide, they were ousted to Russia, they will move on to other, tougher measures. Well, not forgetting to wrangle about the friendship of peoples and the hospitality of the Kazakhs, and between your own - talk about decolonization and derusification. And you have to listen and sing along, because the KNB does not sleep
  • Malibu
    Malibu April 25 2020 12: 03 New
    +1
    Quote: Oleg Skvortsov
    Excuse me, what other Kazakhs in the 18th century, and in the 19th too? The Kyrgyz-Kaisak nomadic tribes walked through the lands — they grazed horses, rams and camels, and they had no land.

    Basmachi is shorter ... As Comrade Sukhov said!
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 April 24 2020 07: 22 New
    +2
    History is history, but the land should be distributed ...., but it must be hung up, moreover in public in squares.
  • aries2200
    aries2200 April 24 2020 07: 46 New
    +8
    Kazakhstan is part of the Omsk region ... the Ishim region that was transferred to the Kazakh Asser and a huge part of the Altai Territory, which was the territory of the RSFSR
    1. Aleksandr1971
      Aleksandr1971 April 24 2020 08: 05 New
      -2
      aries2200, ... this is an irrevocable past
      1. aries2200
        aries2200 April 25 2020 02: 39 New
        +1
        CRIMEA returned ....
        1. Aleksandr1971
          Aleksandr1971 April 25 2020 06: 15 New
          -3
          And what are the implications? Let's get Poland and Alaska back! Let's see what happens ....
          1. aries2200
            aries2200 April 25 2020 14: 00 New
            +1
            and return ... Alaska and Finland. Europe gave Psheks for hire in order to bring Jews into Russia, which from all over Europe had previously been driven to Pshekia
            1. Aleksandr1971
              Aleksandr1971 April 25 2020 14: 31 New
              -1
              This is not serious nonsense. But that's what freedom of speech is for, so that the sofa strategists weave nonsense. It reminds us of the same crap that Ukrainians carry when they praise the weapons that will be "burned out by Russian troops."
              Do not be like our brothers.
        2. kyznets
          kyznets April 27 2020 16: 58 New
          0
          Well, why Russia Kazakhstan? We have nowhere to put money and resources? Feed someone again at our expense? Again Khrushchev-Brezhnev Trotskyism? Help everyone except their own? We need to put things in order with what we have. We have the Far East, Siberia, the North - the Arctic, Sakhalin, Kamchatka. All this requires money, attention, WORK, normal social conditions. Do you want Kazakhstan to join and pull it up to the average Russian? I am also from the USSR. But what remains in Russia after the partition of the USSR I will not forget. And what remains in the Baltic states, in Ukraine, in Moldova, in Central Asia and Kazakhstan. Supplies in Chimkent and Ryazan or Vladimir were very different in the 70s and 80s. I do not want a repetition. Let them live on their own and at their own expense. Do not like the Russians in Kazakhstan, do not want to learn the Kazakh language, go to Russia. They speak Russian here and here we are Russian in our land, in our homeland. All for garlic. Kazakhs build their state according to their own concepts. They also have the right. If only they did not bother me, but I did. I remember only the good. I left in the 94th year. I do not regret even once.
          1. ccsr
            ccsr April 27 2020 17: 41 New
            0
            Quote: kyznets
            I do not want a repetition.

            With your point of view, I completely agree.
  • parusnik
    parusnik April 24 2020 07: 53 New
    -1
    Beijing is investing about 27 billion dollars in the economy of Kazakhstan.
    ... It’s a pity that Russia cannot invest such money in the economy of Kazakhstan ... But a holy place doesn’t happen empty ... Those who invest money order music ... Russia, also in that position ... How much at our top, it was said that Russia would be helped by foreign investment in the economy ...
    1. Nastia makarova
      Nastia makarova April 24 2020 08: 08 New
      +2
      they don’t invest money in Russia and you are talking about others !!!
      1. parusnik
        parusnik April 24 2020 08: 26 New
        +1
        Do we really live without foreign investment? All by yourself ...
        1. Nastia makarova
          Nastia makarova April 24 2020 13: 10 New
          0
          there are no investments, neither foreign nor ours, but the fact that there is a drop in the ocean and even then they only invest in enterprises that export resources
    2. Tank hard
      Tank hard April 24 2020 10: 33 New
      +3
      Quote: parusnik
      . It is a pity that Russia cannot invest such money in the economy of Kazakhstan

      Once invested in Georgia and Ukraine. What happened, see. Aren't you sorry?
      1. Talgat iscakoff
        Talgat iscakoff April 24 2020 23: 52 New
        -3
        Have you invested?
      2. Yaik Cossack
        Yaik Cossack April 25 2020 03: 08 New
        +4
        As invested in Georgia - a separate tragicomic situation. Just one example. Built an aircraft factory. Well, which sane Georgian will go over the counter, his vineyard or office to the slipway or machine? Moron, but among Georgians there are none. So they started there at the request of the Georgian party bosses to import and distribute Slavic engineers and skilled hard workers. They collected the Rooks. And then the Georgians in 1989-1990 branded these Slavs “occupiers”. Dryuchba peoples in action))) in the end, they all threw (billions of dollars), unfortunate people were also abandoned and everything went to dust. Now, Jews are repairing aircraft in these workshops for Georgians. But they no longer make any aircraft.
        1. Tank hard
          Tank hard April 25 2020 11: 09 New
          +3
          Quote: Yaitsky Cossack
          So they started there at the request of the Georgian party bosses to import and distribute Slavic engineers and skilled hard workers.

          The same thing with Kyrgyzstan, brought plants, equipment, personnel ... And now, various people think that it was from the creation of the world. wink
    3. Yaik Cossack
      Yaik Cossack April 25 2020 01: 55 New
      +5
      Russia should not invest anything in Kazakhstan. Only to Russia. Kazakhstan is not an ally, but an enemy. And we do not need a customs union - the benefit of Kazakhstan is about 1 billion dollars a year. And if we invest, then there are no guarantees. They have a tribal society. Now the Shaprashtins of Nazarbayev are in charge of everything. When he dies, they will be dispossessed and all will be redone. This is Africa, why do we need it. The market is small, but everything can be lost. Let the Turks and the Chinese invest there.
  • Bykov.
    Bykov. April 24 2020 08: 03 New
    +2
    The Air Force is also that "source" of information.
  • CommanderDIVA
    CommanderDIVA April 24 2020 09: 36 New
    0
    "And secondly, these scenarios of allegedly restoring imaginary historical justice can be played out by China in our Far East" - a very controversial conclusion regarding the intentions to squeeze our territories by the Chinese, the spheres of geopolitical influence between Russia and China have long been determined, Central Asia is our sphere, the interests of the Chinese are mainly aimed at Southeast Asia, Africa and South America, which of course does not exclude the development of economic projects with Chinese money with the countries of Central Asia, so the indignation of the diplomatic corps of Kazakhstan is a storm in a teacup, this country does not represent for the Chinese critical interest
  • Lara Croft
    Lara Croft April 24 2020 10: 32 New
    0
    Judging by the map of the Seven Rivers, it is a rich land, primarily water resources, which means fertile land, which is not so much in China ....
    Kazakhstan, as an independent state, sooner or later will face a more aggressive foreign policy of the PRC ....
    While these lands were part of the Republic of Ingushetia and the USSR, no one spoke about the historical "injustice" in relation to these and other lands of Kazakhstan in the PRC ...
    Unlike Ukraine, Kazakhstan has a small population and in the case of the "X" hour, it will not be possible to carry out 8 waves of mobilizations ....
    1. Tank hard
      Tank hard April 24 2020 10: 48 New
      +2
      Quote: Lara Croft
      Judging by the map of the Seven Rivers, it is a rich land, primarily water resources, which means fertile land, which is not so much in China ....

      In this regard, Kyrgyzstan is the key to these water resources.
      Quote: Lara Croft
      While these lands were part of the Republic of Ingushetia and the USSR, no one spoke about the historical "injustice" in relation to these and other lands of Kazakhstan in the PRC ...

      A nuclear shield helps North Korea confront the United States, for example. In Kazakhstan, such a shield is missing. repeat
      1. Lara Croft
        Lara Croft April 24 2020 11: 32 New
        0
        Quote: Tank Hard
        Quote: Lara Croft
        Judging by the map of the Seven Rivers, it is a rich land, primarily water resources, which means fertile land, which is not so much in China ....

        In this regard, Kyrgyzstan is the key to these water resources.

        Maybe you're right.
        A nuclear shield helps North Korea confront the United States, for example. In Kazakhstan, such a shield is missing. feel

        Right. However, Kazakhstan has a mysterious and unpredictable northern neighbor who has weapons and material (including natural) resources, like a fool wrappers ....
        It seems to me that if it were not for the Taliban movement in the DRA and the thoughtful look of the PRC, our WBs in the former Central Asian republics would not have existed for a long time ...
        In addition, judging by the data of the VIKI, the PLA does not hold any strike troops in the Kazakh sector, which could quickly and quickly pass through the steppes of Kazakhstan to reach the Russian Ural industrial region ....
        1. Tank hard
          Tank hard April 24 2020 11: 37 New
          +1
          Quote: Lara Croft
          In addition, judging by the data of VIKI, the PLA does not hold any strike groups of forces in the Kazakh direction that could quickly and quickly pass through the steppes of Kazakhstan to reach the Russian Ural industrial region.

          What for? Assimilate or buy. The Chinese know how to wait.
          1. Lara Croft
            Lara Croft April 24 2020 11: 46 New
            +1
            Quote: Tank Hard
            Quote: Lara Croft
            In addition, judging by the data of VIKI, the PLA does not hold any strike groups of forces in the Kazakh direction that could quickly and quickly pass through the steppes of Kazakhstan to reach the Russian Ural industrial region.

            What for? Assimilate or buy. The Chinese know how to wait.

            You'll probably have to wait a long time, all the same there are more Kazakhs than the Kyrgyz ....
            Yes, and I hope that by that time many of the northern lands of Kazakhstan will return back to the bosom of their naughty mother ....
            1. Aleksandr1971
              Aleksandr1971 April 24 2020 13: 45 New
              0
              It’s better not to dream like that.
              For example, I would also like Russia to return (or simply appropriate) to itself 5-10 million sq. Km. in different parts of the world, additionally, without their population (the population can be used up).

              But many peoples have such dreams. And an attempt to realize such a dream will lead not to a better, but to a worse future.
              1. Lara Croft
                Lara Croft April 24 2020 14: 06 New
                +1
                Quote: Aleksandr1971
                It’s better not to dream like that.

                Why? Ukrainians can dream of Voronezh and the Krasnodar Territory, which they received for a short period of time from the Bolsheviks and now consider them theirs ....
                For example, I would also like Russia to return (or just appropriated) own 5-10 million sq. km. in different parts of the world

                Eco skidded you, appropriate ....
                We won’t hold Alaska militarily, Poland is not needed for nothing, and even if we take it without a population, then we should have at least 250-300 million people. (i.e., as in the whole EU), Finland will live better without us, and remaining a neutral state and not harmful to us in such a status as it is, it is more beneficial for us .... if any territories are returned without a population it is the Baltic states and the central part of Ukraine ....
                Kazakhstan is beneficial to us within its borders, as long as local senior comrades there are pursuing, at least not an anti-Russian foreign policy .... if "Svidomye" come to power there, then Kazakhstan will crumble like a house of cards ...
                (the population can be used up as well)

                This is not our method ....
                But many peoples have such dreams.

                I got a drum for the dreams of other nations, all those who dreamed of our land got their teeth in due time, all the territories that were once lost during the RI and the USSR, were lost due to the fault of the leadership itself and were transferred by the RI and the USSR themselves not a single enemy inflicted such territorial losses on the part of the RI / USSR / RF as our government itself, and voluntarily, which in principle you take from the Russian tsars of German origin the leaders of the USSR of Georgian-Ukrainian origin ....
                And an attempt to realize such a dream will lead not to a better, but to a worse future.

                For the worse future of a foreign people? I’m only in favor, if due to the deterioration of the life of another’s people, my improvement will come ...
                I am ready to bear the hardships and hardships in connection with the accession of Crimea and Sevastopol to the Russian Federation, I will endure the hardships and the accession of the Donbass and Northern Kazakhstan to the Russian Federation, if not as full-fledged subjects of the Russian Federation, then as protectorates of the Russian Federation ...
                1. Aleksandr1971
                  Aleksandr1971 April 24 2020 14: 21 New
                  +1
                  Nuuu ..., I fantasized about Manchuria (but without the Chinese), Hokkaido (without the Japanese), Alaska and Hawaii (and even California), the north of the Arabian Peninsula (without Arabs), Thrace and the west of Asia Minor with straits, Turan, etc. .d.

                  But all this is nothing more than she-zm on the world map. And let him not go into bloodshed, in which we will not win.
                  1. Lara Croft
                    Lara Croft April 24 2020 14: 51 New
                    0
                    Quote: Aleksandr1971
                    Nuuu ..., I fantasized about Manchuria (but without the Chinese), Hokkaido (without the Japanese), Alaska and Hawaii (and even California), the north of the Arabian Peninsula (without Arabs), Thrace and the west of Asia Minor with straits, Turan, etc. .d.

                    Throw this thing your imagination, and even before BV without ..... Israeli Jews say, immediately under the laughter and hooting minuses get ....
                    There, local comrades already 4 times tried to transfer your fantasies to them, so your jokes may not be appreciated and cursed ....
    2. Talgat iscakoff
      Talgat iscakoff April 24 2020 23: 54 New
      -3
      All that you know! ?? mobilization..khe!
    3. Yaik Cossack
      Yaik Cossack April 25 2020 02: 18 New
      -1
      Kazakhstan will be crushed by China in 3 days. And well, we have something.
      1. Golovan Jack
        Golovan Jack April 25 2020 02: 26 New
        -4
        Quote: Yaitsky Cossack
        us what

        Have you heard the word "buffer"? So - when he is - better than when he is not.

        It is at least yes
        1. Yaik Cossack
          Yaik Cossack April 25 2020 02: 30 New
          0
          Have you heard the words "treason" and the USSR? First, ask the Kazakhs - are they really a “buffer”? Of course not. Here we have no buffer with China in the Far East, so what? Very bad. Give them Vladivostok for the buffer (with irony, if that)? With China we need a division of spheres of influence, we - this, China - that.
          1. Golovan Jack
            Golovan Jack April 25 2020 02: 45 New
            -3
            Quote: Yaitsky Cossack
            Have you heard the words "treason" and the USSR?

            This is the lyrics. There is no longer the USSR, there are two separate countries - the Russian Federation and Kazakhstan, each with its own interests. And no "betrayal" to you.

            Quote: Yaitsky Cossack
            First, ask the Kazakhs - are they really a “buffer”? Of course not

            I won’t even ask - of course, yes.

            Quote: Yaitsky Cossack
            Here we have no buffer in the Far East, so what?

            And nothing good. For us, in the sense.

            Quote: Yaitsky Cossack
            With China we need a division of spheres of influence, we - this, China - that

            The bad news is that what we need can become necessary for China. And China is a machine much more serious than Kazakhstan itself ... Not, as for me - let everything be as it is. I don’t need Chinese Kazakhstan No.
            1. Yaik Cossack
              Yaik Cossack April 25 2020 02: 54 New
              -1
              Alas, people, including you, are more comfortable living with old illusions. The main enemy of China is not the Russian Federation, but the United States. There will be a long economic struggle. There will be a lot of people who want to push Russia with China for the West. China needs resources. It’s easier to negotiate with him a concession to Kazakhstan than Siberia and the Far East. It is a pity that you do not understand basic things.
              Kazakhstan is no buffer. He is a cunning player who pits the West, the Russian Federation and China. This is the old and traditional policy of the Kazakh khans. A more convenient ally of Russia is rather Uzbekistan, where the threat of the Islamic revolution is real.
              If Kazakhstan is our “buffer”, then why did it develop military-technical and personnel cooperation with Turkey?
              Let everything be as it is - this is an ostrich pose. Time works against us, as we are economically weakening. We are 25 years old and how? Has security grown?
              1. Golovan Jack
                Golovan Jack April 25 2020 02: 56 New
                -4
                Quote: Yaitsky Cossack
                Yaitsky Cossack

                Man, I’m not tuned for a long la-la about anything. Remain in your opinion, but I have already expressed my opinion. Good luck stop
                1. Yaik Cossack
                  Yaik Cossack April 25 2020 02: 58 New
                  -2
                  I understand that you essentially have nothing to say. Why then lamented? All the best!
        2. Yaik Cossack
          Yaik Cossack April 25 2020 15: 29 New
          0
          We had a “buffer” - the Warsaw Treaty countries. They pulled money and resources, and then betrayed and fled to NATO instantly. Even the Bulgarian "brothers" who without Russia would have long been carved by the Turks.
          History teaches naive orysy nothing. Again they dream of “buffers” at the expense of the Russian people
    4. Polymer
      Polymer April 25 2020 08: 57 New
      0
      Quote: Lara Croft
      Judging by the map of the Seven Rivers, it is a rich land, primarily water resources, which means fertile land

      You should not draw conclusions only on this map. Around Balkhash, mainly deserts and semi-deserts. In the north-east, in the foothills of Altai - yes, the land is fertile, but the climate is rather harsh, the so-called. "zone of risky agriculture". Only in the south of the outlined area is there suitable for cultivation, but there are few of them, because there are mountains.
      For these reasons, the Kazakhs were nomadic herders - in these places it was the most acceptable way of survival. Now it’s not much better, mining is most profitable.
  • Nitarius
    Nitarius April 24 2020 11: 09 New
    +3
    Another nonsense .. KazakStan (camp of the Cossacks!) .. exists since the 1930s! and what damn past is it? .in fact it is the Kyrgyz!
  • cniza
    cniza April 24 2020 12: 13 New
    +2
    And secondly, these scenarios of supposedly restoring imaginary historical justice can be played by China in our Far East.


    If you do not stop in time, then yes ...
    1. Uruguay
      Uruguay April 24 2020 16: 40 New
      -1
      Quote: cniza
      And secondly, these scenarios of supposedly restoring imaginary historical justice can be played by China in our Far East.


      If you do not stop in time, then yes ...

      And we know how to stop it and the Chinese know it perfectly ..
  • Alecsandr
    Alecsandr April 24 2020 12: 20 New
    0
    The Chinese, probably, want to take their hands on the Chuy valley. Apparently, it seemed a little since they wrote such articles. The Kazakhs will not look at it just like that. They are now actively opposing the dominance of Chinese companies. They are peaceful people, but if they get angry, God forbid. It’s just that they won’t go home.
    1. Uruguay
      Uruguay April 24 2020 16: 47 New
      0
      Quote: Alecsandr
      .Kazakhs will not look at it just like that. They are still actively opposing the dominance of Chinese companies. They are a peaceful people, but if they get angry, God forbid. It’s just that they won’t go home.

      Well, may Allah be so! The Chinese are not Russian, they just won’t run away under pressure, like in the 90s ..
      1. Talgat iscakoff
        Talgat iscakoff April 24 2020 23: 57 New
        -3
        Evidence, pressure !!! to the studio !!!!
        1. Yaik Cossack
          Yaik Cossack April 25 2020 02: 04 New
          +3
          How many Russians were in 1991 and how many are now? What did you leave from? From the fact that you conducted a soft ethnic cleansing. It is unlikely that Russian readers are so naive that they do not know.
  • Operator
    Operator April 24 2020 13: 05 New
    0
    Starting from the 13th century, China was ruled first by the Mongols, and then by their relatives to the Manchus. The capital of China was Hanbalik - now Beijing. The Manchus ruled China until the bourgeois-democratic revolution in 1911, after which Mongolia, Manchuria, Xinjiang and Tibet separated from China.

    In 1922, Mongolia was liberated by the Red Army from the Chinese interventionists. In the 1930s, the Red Army helped local Uighurs protect Xinjiang from Chinese aggression. In 1945, Manchuria was liberated by the Red Army from the Japanese.

    Therefore, the Russian Federation, by right of succession from the USSR, has all rights to the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, Manchuria and Mongolia (after which it will be possible to deal with who owns Khanbalik and the rest of China) bully

    1. Lara Croft
      Lara Croft April 24 2020 14: 12 New
      +1
      Quote: Operator
      Therefore, the Russian Federation, by right of succession from the USSR, has all rights to the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region,

      Why do we need a second Chechnya, but in Central Asia?
      Manchuria and Mongolia

      Why the Russian Federation these rogues, with Mongolia we have normal interstate relations, and we have no more influence on it than from China, the EU and the USA ...
      1. Operator
        Operator April 24 2020 14: 21 New
        0
        You do not know - in the 1990s, Mongolia really tried to pursue a multi-directional policy, but immediately curtailed it after China was very interested in it.
        1. Lara Croft
          Lara Croft April 24 2020 14: 39 New
          0
          Quote: Operator
          You don’t know - in the 1990s, Mongolia really tried to pursue a multi-directional policy,

          Apparently after the SA left there ....
  • iouris
    iouris April 24 2020 13: 49 New
    0
    Wow, woke up. Independence is not a piece of paper or a declaration.
  • Uruguay
    Uruguay April 24 2020 16: 38 New
    +2
    I remember China occupied Tibet, and so there about 1 million dead and thousands of monasteries of villages were destroyed! Kazakhs, how many people do you have?
    Do not be afraid of such a fate .. Sit there at the deposits explored by the whole Soviet people and think that Russia will protect you?
    The rest of the territory is just a feather grass. Wait someday! negative How many U.S. biolabs do you have? But this is an occasion for China
    1. Yaik Cossack
      Yaik Cossack April 24 2020 16: 51 New
      +3
      Kazakhstan has repeatedly stated that it is not a political ally of Russia. He did not recognize the Russian Crimea. He needs military cooperation with the Russian Federation in order to get help, if necessary, from naive orysy against China. Therefore, cunning Kazakhs periodically and throw foolish Russians about the "Soviet past" and so on, successfully completing a quiet derusification. In the same way, the Kazakh khans swore allegiance to both Manchurian China and Russia at the same time to push them against their foreheads. Well, for Russia, the optimal strategic option is to divide Kazakhstan and China into zones of influence. For us, China is much more important than Kazakhstan, in which in 10-15 years there will be few Russians.
      1. Uruguay
        Uruguay April 24 2020 18: 08 New
        0
        Quote: Yaitsky Cossack
        Therefore, cunning Kazakhs periodically and throw foolish Russians about the "Soviet past" and so on, successfully completing a quiet derusification

        Well, it’s not for long and we are aware of what and how .. Little Tony Blair is not in vain in the main advisers to the brightest Nursultan .. But the capital of Kazakhstan is still pulled closer to the Russian borders .. Does it matter))))
        There will be a debriefing in the future ... soldier
        1. Yaik Cossack
          Yaik Cossack April 25 2020 02: 23 New
          +4
          This is for the accelerated derusification of the north of Kazakhstan moved the capital. In the north, too many Russians still live compactly. Semipalatinsk was renamed Semey, Petropavlovsk is about to be renamed. They populate there intensely Kazakhs from Mongolia (oralmans), but they, despite all the support, do not know how to work in the village and do not want to
          1. Talgat iscakoff
            Talgat iscakoff April 25 2020 05: 13 New
            -2
            Straight - intensely, is there confirmation information, statistics !?
      2. Talgat iscakoff
        Talgat iscakoff April 24 2020 23: 59 New
        -2
        Well done, Lala !!! Land !!! Oh well done! showed his mask!
        1. Yaik Cossack
          Yaik Cossack April 25 2020 01: 38 New
          +3
          Well done Lalya - this is you cool about Elbasy Nazarbayev. The main thing is that the KNB doesn’t cover you there))) You give out the whole truth, the womb! Well, he’s probably not Lyalya, as he has 4 young women. He's more like Koknar. You would like it too, but you won’t be able to. Not enough money.
          He has not concealed his identity about Russia for a long time, but he pays abundantly to Russian scribes to be praised. And so - about Crimea and the lack of alliance with Russia Elbasy all openly spoke.
    2. Aleksandr1971
      Aleksandr1971 April 28 2020 10: 45 New
      0
      Now Tibetans live much better if the Tibetans ruled themselves. In the late 40s, there were remnants of slavery and feudalism in Tibet, as well as corpses lying on the street (and even now they are practicing something here and there). Take a ride now in Tibet and in neighboring Nepal - heaven and earth! Tibet is development, technology, and Nepal is poverty, devastation, ignorance.
  • Radikal
    Radikal April 24 2020 22: 26 New
    +1
    Back in Soviet times, the Chinese paid close attention to this area. sad
    http://militera.lib.ru/h/20c2/04.html
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Antokha
    Antokha April 25 2020 00: 14 New
    +1
    Every superpower sooner or later goes over to expansion: economic, political, military.

    The USSR did not engage in such expansion. The economic aid was exactly that - help at our expense. The political was done only for the buffer zone of Eastern Europe with the West, and then - they were allowed a huge amount of what we were not allowed. In African countries and others, our political "expansion" required the local leader to declare socialism and turn to us for money and help. They quickly caught it. The military "expansion" was reduced to the deployment in the countries of a block of production of our equipment, which had to be produced at home and sold to them. And so - we bought it from them. So, the USSR never made a profit on any country, but on the contrary - spent its own. China, like the United States, acts only in their own interests.
    1. Yaik Cossack
      Yaik Cossack April 25 2020 03: 29 New
      +2
      To take on the burden of protecting and guaranteeing the territorial integrity of Kazakhstan, Russia must receive real retaliatory steps from Kazakhstan. There are not many of them and they are very logical.
      The first is 2 state languages ​​(both Finnish and Swedish in Finland) and a quota of power for Russians of 30%. By share in the population. The second is to stop wagging your ass and become an ally. The third is to remove restrictions for Russian business. Fourth, stop de-Russification. Fifth, recognize dual citizenship without restriction of rights.
      Nazarbayev Kazakhstan will not do this. Well then, you need to fit in for the one who offers the most. Even if it will be China. Nothing personal. - national interests first of all.
      1. Yaik Cossack
        Yaik Cossack April 25 2020 03: 45 New
        +5
        And further. Here go to the Kazakh forums. Immediately feel the difference. There ~ discussion, arguments. And everything is simple there - Alga (forward), Kazakhstan, the Yorsy shut up, because they are to blame, Kazakhstan - for the Kazakhs, my country - I am the master. Here you go, you won’t regret it, the illusions of friendship with the Kazakhs and the essence of the regime there will be lifted right away))) Well, local Russians in Kazakh forums are silent, afraid, making excuses. I do not blame them.
        1. Yaik Cossack
          Yaik Cossack April 25 2020 03: 58 New
          +2
          In principle, geopolitics should be based on bare calculation. Is the de -ification of Kazakhstan good for Russia or not? Of course not. If Kazakhstan wants to hope for the support of Russia, it will have to offer us something substantial than blah blah about the eternal brunt of peoples, a joint Soviet history or bad China. Well, Russia should receive an adequate product for the appropriate price. Everything has a price
          1. Alecsandr
            Alecsandr April 25 2020 11: 22 New
            0
            There is such a hunch that the countries of the former Union, the so-called CIS, have not yet settled down and decided. Their elite thinks one thing and life and circumstances dictate another. In the future, there will probably be again someone with whom and against whom they will unite or disconnect. both in and after the Civil War.
          2. Aleksandr1971
            Aleksandr1971 April 25 2020 14: 40 New
            0
            After 2014, our Central Asian neighbors understand that Russia may well change the political elite in these countries if it becomes a greyhound. Therefore, they conduct a cautious anti-Russian policy. But of course it is necessary to frighten them periodically, but also to support them.
        2. Talgat iscakoff
          Talgat iscakoff April 25 2020 05: 10 New
          -2
          Forum in the studio please!
        3. Tank hard
          Tank hard April 25 2020 17: 53 New
          +2
          Quote: Yaitsky Cossack
          And further. Here go to the Kazakh forums. Immediately feel the difference. There ~ discussion, arguments. And everything is simple there - Alga (forward), Kazakhstan, the Yorsy shut up, because they are to blame, Kazakhstan - for the Kazakhs, my country - I am the master. Here you go, you won’t regret it, the illusions of friendship with the Kazakhs and the essence of the regime there will be lifted right away))) Well, local Russians in Kazakh forums are silent, afraid, making excuses. I do not blame them.

          Plus here, it is enough to visit the videos of Kazakhstan on YouTube to feel how the "patriotic Kazakh audience" behaves.
      2. The comment was deleted.
        1. Yaik Cossack
          Yaik Cossack April 25 2020 11: 22 New
          +4
          Well, look at this supposedly Russian-friendly Kazakh “buffer”. As soon as the conversation went on the facts and on the rights of the Russian population - immediately the Kazakhs have an overtone of the chauvinists and the leader - “Forget it, Orys, this is not Crimea for you.” Immediately start poking. This is evidence in itself. And you don’t need to go to Kazakh forums)))

          That's why the Crimea happened that the rights of the Russian population were trampled by Ukrainization. The Kazakh authorities are doing the same, but in a tougher and more impudent manner. They hope to complete de-Russification, the sooner the better.
          1. Malibu
            Malibu April 25 2020 14: 05 New
            +1
            Quote: Yaitsky Cossack
            Well, look at this supposedly Russian-friendly Kazakh “buffer”. As soon as the conversation went on the facts and on the rights of the Russian population - immediately the Kazakhs have an overtone of the chauvinists and the leader - “Forget it, Orys, this is not Crimea for you.” Immediately start poking. This is evidence in itself. And you don’t need to go to Kazakh forums)))

            And not only they have Kazakhs ..there it came running that my mother did not grieve the Yaitsky Cossack .. Look at me .. The gang attacked .. Be careful!
          2. Aleksandr1971
            Aleksandr1971 April 25 2020 14: 37 New
            0
            In the Kazakh forums, people are the same as in the Russian ones. The forums there are also full of couch strategists, cheers, patriots, dreamers of restoration of historical greatness. Check out this our thread. There, in the Kazakh forums, the same thing
            1. Yaik Cossack
              Yaik Cossack April 25 2020 15: 37 New
              +4
              In Kazakhstan, anti-Russian nationalists are in power, they do not need forums. For example, do you know that Kazakhstan does not recognize dual citizenship? Russian citizens are given a residence permit, and if necessary they will not renew it. A non-citizen cannot buy an apartment or a house. At the same time, the daughter of the khan and speaker of the parliament Dariga Nazarbayeva quietly has Russian citizenship and apartments in Moscow. And this unequal situation does not shake anyone. Moreover, Dariga is not at all pro-Russian, even more of her money and property in the West.
              1. Yaik Cossack
                Yaik Cossack April 25 2020 15: 48 New
                +4
                The Shaprashtinsky clan controls the smuggling of smuggled goods from China through specially made “gates” on the border with China. This is billions of dollars. Well, the loss of the Russian budget. At the same time, fairy tales about beneficial integration and the beginning, right now, of integration are told to naive rysys. Like, believe and wait. However, the integration of the labor market, goods and the opening of movement - well, as in the EU before the coronary crisis - our "buffers" in every possible way torpedo. And without them, the Russian Federation, the customs union is only harmful, all the same, Kazakh customs will miss as much smuggling as they want.
      3. phair
        phair April 26 2020 02: 15 New
        +1
        How many Russians are there? Right Kazakhs are afraid that Russia will come for 4 regions. Khrushchev’s attack not only betrayed the Crimea.
  • Ivan7527
    Ivan7527 April 25 2020 15: 43 New
    0
    At the expense of China. Why are Chinese people called Chinese only in Russia? Look at the maps online, it also says China, and the "Chinese" call themselves the people of China. English (26 letters) is more complicated than Russian (33 letters before 1917, 32 letters (e-ё was considered one letter) before that 49 letters (glagolitic))? Oh well.
  • phair
    phair April 26 2020 02: 11 New
    +1
    There are nine million Kazakhs. He lived in Dzhetygar of the Kustanai region. He was friends with local Germans. And an aunt with tribes and uncle migrated to Novosib. And who will protect them?
  • Smoke
    Smoke April 26 2020 07: 00 New
    +3
    Kyrgyz Kaisaki about the brotherhood of peoples remembered chtol? And about how Russian cities were renamed about how Russians pressed forgot what? My opinion is that the Kazakhs are not our allies; the Chinese are not enemies, as soon as the Russian language becomes the state language in Kazakhstan, then we'll talk.
  • Smoke
    Smoke April 26 2020 07: 11 New
    +2
    Quote: Golovan Jack
    Quote: Yaitsky Cossack
    us what

    Have you heard the word "buffer"? So - when he is - better than when he is not.

    It is at least yes

    at least you have a huge tin cast-iron buffer in your head. after such pearls, you understand that you don’t even have to talk with people like that, you must drive the whip without explaining anything