Military Review

After Tito there was a flood. The heavy legacy of the “master” of Yugoslavia

192
After Tito there was a flood. The heavy legacy of the “master” of Yugoslavia

Marshal has done his job, Marshal may leave



On May 4, 1980, Josip Broz Tito died in the surgical clinic of Ljubljana, the capital of socialist Slovenia. Among the world leaders, he was one of the oldest, in the same May he was to turn 88 years old. Marshal Tito was the founder and permanent head of federal Yugoslavia, which replaced the so-called kingdom of the CXS, Serbs, Croats and Slovenes, where, besides them, there were Bosnians, Macedonians, and Montenegrins.

First, the republic was called the Federal Socialist Republic of Federal Republic of Yugoslavia - federal and popular, then the SFRY - also federal, but above all - socialist. As many politicians and experts subsequently noted, the collapse of socialist Yugoslavia accelerated more than a year before — in fact, from the moment when the Yugoslav media briefly reported on Tito’s poor health and that he was placed in a clinic.


Marshal died for a long time, but fell ill as early as mid-December 1979, and, as some Yugoslav diplomats recalled, Tito's doctors and closest colleagues insisted that he be treated in Slovenia. There, they say, high-class medicine, but Ljubljana is so far not only from Belgrade, but also from Croatia, which is home to a sick person ... But in a Ljubljana clinic, he lay in a coma for more than 100 days.

It is known that immediately after the death of the Yugoslav leader история illnesses and documents on Tito’s treatment were kept secret for 75 years - they will be open only in 2055! Does all this mean that certain circles, aimed at the accelerated disintegration of Yugoslavia, decided to "get rid" of Tito?

In any case, until the fall of 1979, the central and local mass media of the SFRY only occasionally reported on nationalist sentiments and attacks in Bosnia-Herzegovina, Croatia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Slovenia. But since the end of December 1979 such messages have become more “voluminous” and more frequent. But as before, only with rare references to the involvement of Western special services in such excesses. Yugoslavs as if prepared for the inevitability of the collapse of the country ...

The Titan Yugoslavia (like Stalin's Albania, and Romania under Ceausescu) needed the West not only as geopolitical barriers for the “red plague”, but also a kind of ideological “laying”. And the FPRY / SFRY also acted as a socio-economic showcase against the USSR and the Warsaw Pact. With the beginning of the notorious “perestroika”, which in itself accelerated the collapse of the USSR and the social community, such barriers were no longer needed.

Therefore, already in the mid-80s, the West promptly curtailed the program of concessional lending to the SFRY, increasingly demanding that Belgrade pay off accumulating debts. By the end of the 80s, they exceeded $ 28 billion. Among other things, it was a question of paying fines for non-payments and for short deliveries of Yugoslav goods. Moreover, no one in the leadership of the SFRY even remotely could compare with the erudition, authority, and political abilities of Tito. This all the more facilitated the policy of the West to stimulate the destruction of Yugoslavia.

In short, the characteristic of the Titov period by the Russian Balkanist Evgeny Matonin is quite objective:

“Of the 88 years lived, Josip Broz ruled Yugoslavia for 35 years. He skillfully maneuvered between the USSR and the USA, taking large loans from them alternately on favorable terms (as a result, by the beginning of the 80s, the country was close to bankruptcy ... - Approx. Auth.). But after the death of Tito, Yugoslavia hardly lasted another decade and bloodyly collapsed, while at the same time bringing terror to the whole world. ”

In this regard, Tito’s recognition in a conversation with Kim Il Sung is characteristic during an unprecedented visit of the Marshal to the DPRK in August 1977:

“Our socialism is based on the principles of socialist democracy, which excludes the directive role of party organs. Such socialism shows its effectiveness. But it depends primarily on the political unity of the peoples of our country. I am concerned that such unity will be shaken if I do not exist. ”

Similar assessments, or rather, fears, were expressed by Tito in negotiations with the head of the PRC, Hua Guofeng, during an equally unprecedented visit to the PRC in August 1977. Before this, Tito was invariably called the “revisionist”, “hypocrite” and even “agent of imperialism in the world”. the communist movement. " Interestingly, in the same way, under the carbon copy, the Marshal and his policies were called in Moscow and in the countries of people's democracy. But the Non-Aligned Movement, which Tito initiated, was considered almost an ally in the USSR, but in Beijing it was called nothing more than “a special project of the special services of the imperialists in developing countries and the world national liberation movement.”

Stalin’s strange “namesake”


During his visits to the PRC and North Korea, the aging Marshal tried to reconcile with “these Stalinists,” who, however, according to the testimony of Nicolae Ceausescu, Romanian colleague Tito, had “more solid socialism than in the USSR.” It didn’t work out very well, but the Chinese reconciled the marshal with his late namesake. And not only, and Tito admitted this in an interview with Yugoslav journalists:

“I was able to make peace with Stalin and Mao Zedong, having been to Beijing and seen Tiananmen with a huge portrait of Stalin, which is next to the same portraits of Marx, Engels and Lenin. I think the restoration of relations with China for Yugoslavia and for me personally is more important today than anything else. ”

But, as you know, since 1979, the PRC has dramatically changed both its foreign and domestic policies. While maintaining the attributes of adherence to Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin and Mao Zedong. Therefore, Beijing did nothing to help either the post-Titan Yugoslavia, the same Ceausescu, the German Democratic Republic with Honecker, or the anti-Gorbachev opposition ...

No less characteristic touch: contemporaries testify that the daughter of the “leader of the peoples” Svetlana Alliluyeva at the turn of the 60s-70s more than once asked Josip Broz Tito for a visa to visit Yugoslavia. It would seem that for Tito, her visit would be an important “justification” of his post-war position with respect to Stalin and the breakdown of “Tito” Yugoslavia with the USSR in 1948-1953.

However, Tito managed to rise above this kind of fuss, showing political and human decency in relation to Stalin who was already defamed and reburied in the USSR. He refused Alliluyeva visas, explaining his position as follows:

“My and generally Yugoslav disagreements with Stalin are by no means a reason for his notorious daughter to use Yugoslavia somehow to settle her accounts with her already dead father.”

The interethnic monarchy, created on the ruins of the First World War, left all its problems and contradictions to the people's federal republic. This predetermined the collapse of the country in the early 90s. The fact is that in any era, more than half of the Yugoslav population was composed of peoples and faiths that secretly or explicitly opposed a single state on the Russian or Soviet model.

Serbian hegemony in governing the country during the interwar, and then in the postwar period did not suit anyone, starting with the Croats and Slovenes, and ending with the Macedonians and even “almost” Serbs - Montenegrins. They constantly recalled that Serbs were no more than a third of all Yugoslavia, both in territory and population, and their decisive contribution to the victories over the invaders in the two world wars simply did not bother anyone.

Recall that the Serbs fought in partisans until the liberation of Yugoslavia, anti-fascist resistance was, according to the number of its participants, almost 90% Orthodox - Serbian or Pro-Serbian. Moreover, just a week after the invasion of German and Italian troops there in April 1941, the Yugoslav kingdom immediately broke up into several puppet "quasi-states." In their territories already in 1941, a monstrous terror was unleashed against the Serbs and, in general, Yugoslav Orthodoxy.

However, the head of the anti-fascist resistance, mainly Serbian, was, oddly enough, the Croat-communist Josip Broz Tito, who since 1945 led the new Yugoslavia. His political authority and talent for maneuvering between national elites in the regions allowed him to restrain negative factors. Tito understood that the formation of Yugoslavia and its development according to a centralized Soviet or Chinese model - already for national and geographical reasons - would quickly lead to the collapse of the country.

Therefore, a federal option was chosen on the verge of confederation. At the same time, the ruling Communist Party also became united - the Union of Communists of Yugoslavia, in which the rights of the constituent parts were much broader than that of the central apparatus. Yes, by and large, he did not exist at all: the Central Committee met only for congresses and conferences and was basically an ideological shell, and not the ruling core of such a country.

Yugoslav socialism immediately became a strategic antipode of Soviet and Chinese, when all the objects in the country, except for the defense industry, were managed by the local councils of local workers and the leaders put forward by them (a system of workers' self-government). They were elected for no more than two years with the right to re-election only once. All this was subjected to fierce criticism from Moscow and Beijing, even when they reached the military confrontation.

Almost never the leadership of the CPSU could come to terms with the Yugoslav principles of governance, reasonably fearing that they might be adopted in other countries of the social camp. The political conflict between Belgrade and Moscow was only deepening, and in the neighboring countries of Yugoslavia, for example, in Hungary, the centers and carriers of the Titovian version of socialism were eliminated in the bud.


Nevertheless, even in Yugoslavia there were dissidents and even a semblance of their own “gulag”. In seven Yugoslav special concentration camps, four of which were in Croatia, in terrible conditions not only communists from among opponents of Titan socialism were isolated, but also tens of thousands of non-partisan supporters of friendship with the USSR and China. The fate of at least a third of the "inhabitants" of those camps is still unknown. Titov’s camps, unlike many Stalin’s, were closed in 1962-1963.

Now one should not be surprised that, for obvious reasons, Yugoslavia, Marshal Tito began to increasingly focus on the West. Even when Stalin was alive, Belgrade managed to sign an indefinite agreement on military-political cooperation with the United States and joined the NATO-sponsored Balkan Pact, which included NATO members - Greece and Turkey. The pact successfully existed until the collapse of Yugoslavia.

From heyday to decay


Since the beginning of the 60s, in terms of actual per capita income of Yugoslavia, whose citizens were also allowed to work abroad, it began to significantly outperform the USSR and other social countries. Often in the media of ex-Yugoslav countries it is still nostalgically, but quite objectively noted in this regard, that their citizens have never been able to work so little and earn so much as under Marshal Tito.

But the maturities of most foreign accounts did not coincide so clearly in time with the growing crises in Yugoslavia immediately after the death of Tito. The crisis of the most prosperous of the socialist countries was comprehensive - socio-economic, political, but most importantly, ethnic. The republic literally went bankrupt overnight. And in comparison with what later all the former republics of Yugoslavia survived, with the exception, perhaps, only of Slovenia, not only the collapse of some kind of Austria-Hungary, but also the collapse of the Soviet Union clearly faded.


All the old ethnic, political, and related economic problems have passed into Titan Yugoslavia. While the marshal was in power, they appeared only "pointwise", but from the mid-70s, as the personal power of the aging Tito weakened, they began to affect too literally. Moreover, and publicly. Not just because the authorities of Yugoslavia since 1972 have greatly expanded the legal guarantees for rallies and strikes allowed in the country since 1955.

In the mid-50s, the divorce of the USSR and Yugoslavia was simply forgotten, although Yugoslavia did not become a party to either the Warsaw Pact or the Council for Mutual Economic Assistance. And this is in spite of all the efforts and concrete measures of the Soviet leadership, starting with soft, and even non-repayable loans and borrowings, and ending with an imbalance in prices in favor of imports from Yugoslavia in relation to Soviet exports. Now, few will remember that with the financial and technical assistance of the USSR in Yugoslavia, more than 300 enterprises of various sectoral profiles, about 100 energy and transport facilities were created.

But factors undermining the country continued to grow. The collapse of Yugoslavia could have occurred on April 28, 1971 at a meeting of heads of national committees of the UCC and republican administrations. After Tito’s speech at this forum, representatives of Croatia announced a possible withdrawal from the SFRY. They were supported by representatives of Slovenia, but the delegations of Serbia, Montenegro and Macedonia opposed, the rest of the regional delegations (Kosovo, Vojvodina, Bosnia and Herzegovina) preferred to refrain from discussion.

Tito did not participate in it either, but on the morning of the third day of the meeting he left the hall. An hour and a half later he returned and announced his conversation with Leonid Brezhnev. “Comrades, I'm sorry that I was late, but Comrade Brezhnev called me. He heard that we had problems, and asked if I needed help for Yugoslavia, ”he said loudly.

Everything calmed down right away: the local people understood that it was better to forget about nationalism. And soon, at this forum, agreed decisions were made on the socio-economic development of the regions of the SFRY and the strict observance of international proportions in the selection and placement of personnel in Bosnia-Herzegovina, Croatia and Kosovo.


However, this was not Brezhnev, but Tito called Moscow, reporting the situation, and received assurances of military assistance to the SFRY. Nevertheless, Tito, boldly declaring that the Soviet leader was calling him, made it clear that Moscow was carefully monitoring everything that was happening in Yugoslavia. And soon, in the same 1971, Brezhnev almost triumphantly visited the SFRY; with no less pathos was arranged and the visit of the Secretary General of the CPSU Central Committee, which took place five years later.

In several of his speeches, Brezhnev did not hesitate to directly state that the USSR was ready to provide comprehensive assistance to Yugoslavia, including in protecting its integrity. So the secretary general instantly reacted to the fact that in numerous conversations with him, Tito worried that the deterioration of his health was accompanied by increased separatism in Yugoslavia, which involved the intelligence services of the West and several Islamic countries. Marshall also spoke out in the sense that he did not see a worthy successor, and the scattering of the leadership of the republic and the Union of Communists “along national angles” would certainly lead to their collapse.

Brezhnev, in turn, proposed strengthening the role of the “center” in the SFRY and transforming the Union of Communists into a capable leading party, which Tito did not agree with. He, on the contrary, proposed introducing into the USSR a system of Yugoslav workers' self-government, when enterprises and institutions are run by the workers themselves, and not by officials.

Marshal, unlike Brezhnev, admitted that even under socialism strikes of workers are acceptable: “this is the main signal about the mistakes of the ruling structures” (from an interview with Tito by the Yugoslav media, April 1972). In response, the Soviet leader complained about the dangers of decentralization and protest “easing” under socialism. The positions of Moscow and Belgrade have always diverged too significantly, despite the traditional sympathies of the peoples for each other.
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  1. Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 05: 38 New
    -14
    according to Nicolae Ceausescu,

    This is definitely not necessary to listen to. Henpecked in Lenka, as well as Gorbi in Raiska. Even when they were hung up, he was dripping on his brain.
    1. Tatyana
      Tatyana April 26 2020 05: 50 New
      11
      Brezhnev, in turn, proposed strengthening the role of the “center” in the SFRY and transforming the Union of Communists into a capable leading party, which Tito did not agree with. He, on the contrary, proposed introducing into the USSR a system of Yugoslav workers' self-government, when enterprises and institutions are run by the workers themselves, and not by officials.

      I am not surprised that Yugoslavia fell apart.
      The USSR disappeared as a result of exactly the same methods as Tito.
      The same methods as with the "reorganization" of Gorbachev in the USSR and with the parade of national sovereignty under Yeltsin with his call "Take as much sovereignty as you can take!"
      The result is the same.
      1. Basil50
        Basil50 April 26 2020 06: 43 New
        +5
        The collapse of the SFRY became predetermined as soon as Tito managed to buy * Western democracies *. The constant provocations against the SOVIET UNION and SOVIET citizens became for Yugoslavs a prerequisite for prosperity. This is today the Serbs about * fraternity * are rubbing a lot of things, but if you recall what they said to the SOVIET UNION and Soviet citizens? And what was Milosevic carrying there? The Serbs have already forgotten and completely sincerely forgave themselves what they did and what they declared.
        China, too, has taken the same path; the very example of the SFRY was seductive. Remember provocations and statements. Where it leads? It’s just that China and the Chinese will not get a deal with the Americans, they’ll have to pay. Too much the Chinese owed to the indigenous people of China and their neighbors.
        1. knn54
          knn54 April 26 2020 07: 44 New
          +4
          The article is a big plus. Croatia and Serbia were almost always rivals, if not enemies.
          The Catholic and Orthodox faiths divided the fraternal peoples. During WWII, Croatian units sided with the Germans. And the Croatian genocide, supported by the Vatican, even stunned the Germans.
          It seems that the son of Churchill Randolph. located in the mountains of Yugoslavia with a British mission, he fulfilled his task.
          Tito was an old-timer and, in another sense, is practically the only European Communist leader who survived the purges of the 30s.
          I recommend reading Orest Maltsev’s novel "The Yugoslav Tragedy." I bought it in second-hand books in second-hand books. The seller refused to accept the commission, because since the time of Khrushchev, the novel was on the list of prohibited.
          It is also possible to order (the author received the Stalin Prize). But there is no smoke without fire.
          1. vladcub
            vladcub April 26 2020 14: 20 New
            +4
            In fact, the "custom-made" novel by an unknown writer is not the most compelling argument
      2. bandabas
        bandabas April 26 2020 10: 02 New
        +5
        Judging by the actions of our "leadership" can and destroy the Russian Federation.
        1. Octopus
          Octopus April 26 2020 13: 10 New
          +2
          Quote: bandabas
          You can destroy the Russian Federation.

          Light to Vladimir Vladimirovich 88 years in the 2040th.
      3. Doccor18
        Doccor18 April 26 2020 12: 32 New
        +2
        When a strong and smart leader rules, then in a strong multinational state
        all are moving in the same direction. As soon as a weak leader takes the place of the strong,
        national princes come out from all corners of the empire at once, who recall that they are of a different nationality in general and it would be nice to separate themselves, well, or give the broadest autonomy. So it was after Tito and many other strong leaders. Respect and fear the strong. The rest are used.
        1. Sergej1972
          Sergej1972 April 29 2020 14: 17 New
          +2
          Unfortunately, Tito himself initiated that after his death the post of President of the SFRY be abolished, and his functions should be transferred to the collegiate presidium of the SFRY, in which there was an equal representation of the republics and two Serbian autonomies. The post of chairman of the UCC was also abolished. The Chairman of the Presidium of the Central Committee of the UCC and the Secretary of the Presidium of the Central Committee of the UCC (the actual head of the apparatus, the second person after the Chairman in the Presidium) did not have such authority. In addition, both the Chairperson of the Presidium of the Central Committee of the UCC and the Chairperson of the Presidium of the SFRY were elected for one year without the right to re-election, in turn from the republican and regional SKs and from the republics and autonomous territories.
    2. rich
      rich April 26 2020 06: 28 New
      26
      quote
      Mordvin 3 (Vladimir):

      Ceausescu is henpecked by Lenka, as well as Gorbi by Raiska. Even when they were hung up, he was dripping on his brain.

      Why are you writing this? Firstly, They were not hanged, but shot. Secondly, during the execution they didn’t quarrel, but rather held very dignified and even sang “International”
      Soldiers of the Ceausescu were executed by paratroopers selected from hundreds of volunteers: Captain Ionel Boera, foremen Dahlia Octavian and Dorin-Marian Kirlan. The speedy trial and execution were explained by the fact that the military allegedly feared that the Securitate might recapture Ceausescu. . At least 30 bullets were fired into spouses. Moreover, the shooting happened too quickly for the film crew to record the event. Before the sentence was carried out, the Ceausescu couple. sang "International" - even when they were standing against the wall. After the execution of the bodies, the Ceauşescu was covered with tarpaulin.
      Then they were taken and left to lie in the Steaua stadium, after which they were buried in the Gencha military cemetery [75]

      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 06: 32 New
        -30
        Quote: Rich
        During the execution, they behaved with dignity and sang "Internationale"

        Yeah, only then did Ceausescu read the last words on the lips. I literally remember: "Well, at least for now, leave me alone, Elena!" In the magazine "Interpol" I read in the 90th year somewhere.
        1. Dart2027
          Dart2027 April 26 2020 07: 05 New
          15
          Quote: mordvin xnumx
          Yeah, only then they read lips

          That is, a lip reading specialist was invited to their execution? You yourself are not funny?
          Quote: mordvin xnumx
          In the magazine "Interpol" read the year in the 90th

          Then a lot of things started to print, but not everything was true.
          1. Tatyana
            Tatyana April 26 2020 08: 00 New
            +5
            Quote: Rich
            Firstly. the Ceausesco spouses were not hanged, but shot. Secondly, during the execution they didn’t quarrel, but rather held very dignified and even sang “International”


            The arrest and execution of Nicolae Ceausescu and his wife Elena. • Sep 14 2017 year
          2. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 08: 26 New
            -12
            Quote: Dart2027
            That is, a lip reading specialist was invited to their execution?

            No. After reading the shooting.
            Quote: Dart2027
            You yourself are not funny?

            Estimate, not funny. I saw how in the bazaar they tried to deceive the blind, the dude did not know that they determine money by touch.
            1. Dart2027
              Dart2027 April 26 2020 11: 38 New
              +2
              Quote: mordvin xnumx
              by shooting

              In HD quality?
              Quote: mordvin xnumx
              trick the blind

              The fact that the blind develops the remaining senses is a medical fact.
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 11: 43 New
                -8
                Quote: Dart2027
                In HD quality?

                They were shot when they were executed.
                Quote: Dart2027
                The fact that the blind develops the remaining senses is a medical fact.

                What are you talking about? For four years I worked in a training and production enterprise for the blind, and I know firsthand what I'm writing about. I currently have experience in caring for a blind disabled person.
                1. Dart2027
                  Dart2027 April 26 2020 11: 46 New
                  +4
                  Quote: mordvin xnumx
                  They were filmed when

                  In order to read lips, you need a very clear and clean record, and by what I saw you can only read if someone who reads is given a text in advance.
                  1. Mordvin 3
                    Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 13: 32 New
                    -2
                    Quote: Dart2027
                    To read lips, you need a very clear and clean record,

                    Not necessary. By the way, I can read lips a little. This is not very difficult.
                    1. Dart2027
                      Dart2027 April 26 2020 13: 37 New
                      0
                      Quote: mordvin xnumx
                      Not necessarily.

                      I still remember how in the news programs the dubbing of the announcer was just for those who read lips, and how a specially trained person opened his mouth. I wonder why the announcer was not enough?
                      1. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 13: 40 New
                        -3
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        dubbing the speaker just for those who read lips,

                        You are mistaken. It was dubbing for the deaf.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        I wonder why the announcer was not enough?

                        Because they do not hear. Replaced by a running line.
                      2. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 April 26 2020 15: 16 New
                        +1
                        Quote: mordvin xnumx
                        This for dumb dubbing was

                        For deaf and dumb people who read lips. Well, what's the mistake?
                      3. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 17: 01 New
                        -2
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        For deaf and dumb people who read lips. Well, what's the mistake?

                        In everything. Waving deaf-mute hands, and drawing the Braille font blind. By the way, tape recorders for the blind were produced in the USSR. There the buttons were enlarged with an enlarged inscription.
                      4. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 April 26 2020 18: 12 New
                        0
                        Quote: mordvin xnumx
                        In everything. Deaf-mute waving

                        Well, for whom was lip reading? And you never answered
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        and how a specially trained person opened his mouth. I wonder why the announcer was not enough?
                      5. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 18: 25 New
                        -3
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Well, for whom was lip reading?

                        Lip reading was for the deaf. They waved their hands. For the blind, there was braille. Am I clearly expressing myself? He worked for four years in a boarding school for the blind ...
                      6. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 April 26 2020 18: 28 New
                        0
                        Quote: mordvin xnumx
                        Am I clear?
                        You are so touching trying to get away from the question
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        I still remember how in the news programs the dubbing of the announcer was just for those who read lips, and how a specially trained person opened his mouth.
                        If lip reading is that easy, why?
                      7. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 18: 46 New
                        -2
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        If lip reading is that easy, why?

                        They are deaf and dumb. They read lips. In Tula they are taught this reading.
                      8. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 April 26 2020 19: 03 New
                        0
                        Quote: mordvin xnumx
                        They are deaf and dumb. They read lips.
                        I know that they are being trained, but
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        I still remember how in the news programs the dubbing of the announcer was just for those who read lips, and how a specially trained person opened his mouth.
                        And what could be read there during the execution?
                      9. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 April 27 2020 03: 48 New
                        -3
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And what could be read there during the execution?

                        They deciphered his last words on the lips. It was: "Well, at least now do not make me nervous, Elena!" She even got it on the scaffold ... sad
                      10. Astra wild
                        Astra wild April 27 2020 09: 57 New
                        +1
                        Colleague, Mordvin. Where did you see the scaffold?
                      11. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 April 27 2020 19: 36 New
                        0
                        Quote: mordvin xnumx
                        They deciphered his last words on the lips.

                        Who are they? What was the recording quality?
              2. Sergej1972
                Sergej1972 April 29 2020 14: 22 New
                +1
                You do not remember that. When sign language translation was carried out, not only gestures were used. The sign language interpreter spoke the text at the same time. Why did he do this if the deaf-mute had enough to follow the diction of an ordinary speaker?
      2. Astra wild
        Astra wild April 27 2020 09: 50 New
        +1
        I still remember the surrogate manager Vera Hlevinsky. I had a classmate Khlevinsky, and I remember
  • Liam
    Liam April 26 2020 13: 27 New
    +2
    Quote: mordvin xnumx
    They were filmed when executed

    Not up to the songs they had.
    https://youtu.be/tupFYAg0ebQ
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 13: 30 New
      -1
      Quote: Liam
      Not up to the songs they had.

      And I’m not writing about songs. The magazine Interpol wrote that they decoded the last words of Ceausescu from the video. To his wife.
      1. Liam
        Liam April 26 2020 13: 31 New
        +2
        Well, see for yourself.
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 13: 45 New
          -1
          Quote: Liam
          Well, see for yourself.

          So I don’t understand Romanian. request He taught French at school, and then through a stump deck. winked
        2. Liam
          Liam April 26 2020 13: 57 New
          +3
          And I understand). No lyrics, only hardcore
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Basil50
    Basil50 April 26 2020 14: 29 New
    +3
    riche
    This is what happens when people try to come to terms with the Nazis. After all, they did not carry out denazification there. Therefore, there was a fascist uprising. Ceausescu sincerely tried to equip the state together with the followers of the ideas of Nazism.
    I remember that citizens, having taken a sip of the democratic regime, cursed the putschists.
  • Catfish
    Catfish April 26 2020 08: 33 New
    +8
    Yes, they were put to the wall and a fan from the hip, photos were in the press.
  • Keyser soze
    Keyser soze April 26 2020 10: 40 New
    +5
    Even when they were hung up, he was dripping on his brain.

    They were shot.
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 10: 44 New
      -8
      Quote: Keyser Soze
      They were shot.

      Well, in short, they were executed. But I remembered that phrase.
  • Vladimir Glinsky
    Vladimir Glinsky April 26 2020 11: 06 New
    +2
    Quote: mordvin xnumx
    Even when they were hung up, he was dripping on his brain.
    Reply

    In fact, as far as I remember, the couple Ceausescu was shot.
  • vladcub
    vladcub April 26 2020 14: 12 New
    +5
    Mordvin, actually a couple of Ceausescu was shot. His wife really was a strong-willed woman. A few years ago, a cemetery was shown on TV where Ceausescu’s funeral was, and their daughter said that her mother remained faithful to the ideals. And this is worthy of respect.
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 17: 03 New
      -4
      Quote: vladcub
      His wife really was a strong-willed woman.

      She was greedy. I want to! Now she wanted a yacht, then a goblet with diamonds.
      1. Astra wild
        Astra wild April 27 2020 09: 26 New
        +2
        A colleague Mordvin, NOW about the dead can tell so much nasty things. For example, I read that V.I. Lenin had chronic syphilis. And take it on faith?
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 April 27 2020 09: 29 New
          -1
          Quote: Astra wild
          For example, I read that V.I. Lenin had chronic syphilis.

          It's buulshit. In "Top Secret" I read that he had a relationship with Trotsky.
  • phair
    phair April 26 2020 05: 46 New
    +2
    Letter from Yugoslavia. So dry soups called. I don’t remember anything else. East Germany Magiruses, Robotrons. Bulgaria isot, vegetables, Hungary Ikarus, globe. Czech Republic, Poles Steel Will (wheel loader). Even the Mongols delivered cool hams and sheepskin coats.
    1. Horst78
      Horst78 April 26 2020 05: 50 New
      -5
      OPAL cigarettes and others (I don’t remember the name.) In 1999, for some reason, during the bombing of Yugoslavia, they smashed a tobacco factory (“hand of the market”, “the market itself will understand” aha, right now)
      1. phair
        phair April 26 2020 05: 55 New
        10
        Isn't it Bulgaria? I then smoked. BT, Sewardess, Tu134, etc. ...
        1. rich
          rich April 26 2020 06: 58 New
          +9
          "Opal" - Bulgaria. Yugoslav cigarettes are Yugoslavia, "Rival, Jadran." The quality was not worse than the Bulgarian


          1. Free wind
            Free wind April 26 2020 07: 23 New
            +8
            Ronchil from Yugoslavia was also in the USSR, a beautiful bundle, 80 cents worth. Dear infections, I began with them the damned path of a smoker.
            1. rich
              rich April 26 2020 07: 45 New
              +7
              Ronchil from Yugoslavia was also in the USSR, a beautiful bundle, 80 cents worth. Dear Infections

              Productions of the Yugoslav tobacco factory "Samuel" yes When the smokers smoked them, they did not throw out packs, but put Bulgarian cigarettes in them. for such show-offs, my friend - 100% Rusak received the nickname - Samuel laughing
            2. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 08: 30 New
              +2
              Quote: Free Wind
              I started with them the damned path of a smoker.

              And I have a brother like collecting a collection. Moreover, all cigarettes were ours, domestic. Collected into two blocks.
              1. Sklendarka
                Sklendarka April 26 2020 15: 30 New
                -1
                ,, North''and ,, Surf''this is our everything ...
                1. vladcub
                  vladcub April 26 2020 17: 18 New
                  +2
                  Prima, Kazbek, Belomorkanal. In our village "Belomor" respected
              2. Free wind
                Free wind April 27 2020 12: 22 New
                +1
                Well, they wrote at least the names, make the article very interesting. Yes, just the names of cigarettes in the USSR.
                1. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 April 27 2020 12: 27 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Free Wind
                  Well, they wrote at least the names, make the article very interesting. Yes, just the names of cigarettes in the USSR.

                  There were a lot of them. But the people in their name remade. For example, the Pamir was called "Beggar in the mountains." laughing
                  1. Free wind
                    Free wind April 27 2020 23: 48 New
                    0
                    Abram Moiseich went to look for work. Sarah Going Mountains, Abram, Work Have? Only Yvanam. Like a picture on a pack, and such a comic book. In capital letters. “Pamir cigarettes.” I heard that.
          2. phair
            phair April 26 2020 07: 34 New
            +6
            I even smoked Ho Chi Minh's socks. But these did not happen.
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 08: 32 New
              +5
              Quote: phair
              I even smoked Ho Chi Minh's socks

              Vietnamese poisoned us! What about Cuban Partagas? laughing
              1. Van 16
                Van 16 April 26 2020 08: 43 New
                +5
                Partagas in life you will not forget)) the horror is creepy, rarely anyone could finish a cigarette to half))
                Oh, at one time there were cigarettes whose name was unknown, either Vietnam or Korea, birds were drawn on packs ..
                1. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 09: 00 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Van 16
                  on packs of birds were drawn.

                  This is the DPRK in my opinion. Creepy poison. laughing
                2. phair
                  phair April 26 2020 09: 08 New
                  +3
                  Birds were not inserted at all. All the stalls were littered.
                  1. Mordvin 3
                    Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 09: 49 New
                    0
                    Quote: phair
                    All the stalls were littered.

                    I loved Magma. These were cool cigarettes.
                    1. phair
                      phair April 26 2020 10: 26 New
                      +7
                      Magnu. In a red bundle.
                      1. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 10: 34 New
                        +6
                        Quote: phair
                        Magnu. In a red bundle.

                        Yeah. Cool cigarettes were.
                      2. Lexus
                        Lexus April 26 2020 14: 36 New
                        +3
                        We have one time the people of "Doyen" smoked. I did not smoke then, but I remembered them, because in the unusually short, pot-bellied block, the packs lay in a stack, side in one row, and not flat in two, as is customary.
                      3. vladcub
                        vladcub April 26 2020 17: 38 New
                        0
                        I remember: "Magna", but only empty packs
                  2. vladcub
                    vladcub April 26 2020 17: 26 New
                    +2
                    I for show-offs: "BAM" with menthol "tarred", but did not get involved
                    1. Mordvin 3
                      Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 17: 29 New
                      0
                      Quote: vladcub
                      "BAM" with menthol

                      We certainly didn’t have such. Marlboro was, but there was no BAM.
                    2. Astra wild
                      Astra wild April 26 2020 20: 00 New
                      +2
                      My father only smoked “Cosmos” and “Stolichnye”, and I with the girls of the Stewardess. Such a beautiful girl on a pack and we dreamed of becoming like that.
                      For many years I have not smoked, but I have a feeling of nostalgia. I have a picture from a pack of Stewardess
                    3. Mordvin 3
                      Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 20: 14 New
                      0
                      Quote: Astra wild
                      and I'm with the girls stewardess. Such a beautiful girl on a pack and we dreamed of becoming like that.

                      Uh ... Jokes went. Will you be a stewardess? No, I have Opal. He lit up and fell ... laughing
                    4. hohol95
                      hohol95 April 26 2020 20: 19 New
                      0
                      Good evening, dear Astra! Curly lived!
                      I read it, looked at the pictures with "thieves packs."
                      I’ve seen such in childhood and adolescence!
                      But father, my simple metal-cutter always smoked "Astra", "I will accept", "Ray" (received coupons), "Flight". Sometimes Belomor. By youth, "North" (former NORD). Naturally, all without a filter. And only recently began to acquire filter cigarettes.
                    5. Astra wild
                      Astra wild April 27 2020 09: 06 New
                      +1
                      Now I don’t remember how much these cigarettes cost.
                      Quote: mordvin xnumx
                      Quote: Astra wild
                      and I'm with the girls stewardess. Such a beautiful girl on a pack and we dreamed of becoming like that.

                      Uh ... Jokes went. Will you be a stewardess? No, I have Opal. He lit up and fell ... laughing

                      Did not hear
                    6. The comment was deleted.
      2. Living7111972
        Living7111972 April 27 2020 23: 35 New
        0
        Vietnamese, men terribly cursed - sour said ... I remember for some reason ...
    2. Free wind
      Free wind April 26 2020 08: 59 New
      +6
      Partagas brought down heavy smokers, Ligeros was also thermonuclear. Cigarette butts of these cigarettes had to be scattered around the schools; many losers would have been discouraged from smoking. Unas a young teacher grabbed a kid with a matchbox with cigarette butts, rushed to the director, twisted, looked, his words "Well what can I say, this is an Evans party cigarette" Even Madras were Indian, they seemed to be made from a turban of a dead yoga and cotton wool was added from the mattress to dump, the stench from them stood utterly.
      1. phair
        phair April 26 2020 09: 10 New
        +3
        Madras yes, rare muck ...
      2. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 09: 54 New
        +3
        Quote: Free Wind
        They were made, it seems, from the turban of a dead yoga and cotton wool was added from a mattress in a landfill,

        It’s like a joke. Tobacco directors gathered to share experiences. Well, we pass the cabbage through the horse, then we collect manure, and then we add a little tobacco ...
        - Ahhh ... So you also add tobacco?
      3. tech3030
        tech3030 April 26 2020 18: 23 New
        +2
        Ligeros was called death under sail!
      4. hohol95
        hohol95 April 26 2020 20: 21 New
        0
        Have you tried RUM NEGRU? ROM Cuban!
    3. phair
      phair April 26 2020 09: 06 New
      0
      In the Far East was not.
    4. Olgovich
      Olgovich April 26 2020 11: 49 New
      +2
      Quote: mordvin xnumx
      What about Cuban Partagas?

      I remember ... you really feel that smoking is killing ...
    5. 72jora72
      72jora72 April 26 2020 15: 28 New
      +2
      What about Cuban Partagas? laughing
      Yes, the memories of youth: Patagas, Ligeros, Montecristo, and even the Vietnamese were Komsudey, after them there was light emerald ashes laughing
    6. Sklendarka
      Sklendarka April 26 2020 15: 32 New
      +1
      Quote: mordvin xnumx
      Quote: phair
      I even smoked Ho Chi Minh's socks

      Vietnamese poisoned us! What about Cuban Partagas? laughing

      And the Cuban ,, Portogas '', like Ligeros, '' was made from si-gar-no-go tobacco ... and these are two big differences ....
  • Vladimir Glinsky
    Vladimir Glinsky April 26 2020 11: 15 New
    +1
    Well, I still remember Herzegovina, Pine Tree, Yu, 06, Doyen ... No, there were a lot of them.
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 11: 55 New
      +1
      Quote: Vladimir Glinsky
      Herzegovina

      Herzegovina was good. Stalin smoked it. And Brezhnev is the news. They were also quite good.
    2. rich
      rich April 26 2020 14: 23 New
      +4
      Herzegovina Flor is purely our Russian, this brand was patented in 1878 (in honor of the San Stefano Peace Treaty) by the founder of the Java factories S. S. Gabay
      1. hohol95
        hohol95 April 26 2020 20: 28 New
        +1
        Morshansk factory makes "Herzegovina ..." According to reviews - grass and sticks!
  • Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 05: 59 New
    +2
    Quote: Horst78
    Cigarettes "OPAL" and others.

    No, the Bulgarians supplied it. Opal, Stewardess, Carcass, Sidewalks ... laughing
    1. Sklendarka
      Sklendarka April 26 2020 15: 34 New
      0
      Quote: mordvin xnumx
      Quote: Horst78
      Cigarettes "OPAL" and others.

      No, the Bulgarians supplied it. Opal, Stewardess, Carcass, Sidewalks ... laughing

      ... and let's add - ,, Sun '' ,,, Shipka '' ...
  • Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 05: 56 New
    +1
    Quote: phair
    I don’t remember anything else.

    Yugoslav brakes on Kamaz. And they made ships for us.
    1. phair
      phair April 26 2020 06: 01 New
      +3
      Finnish ships drove more to the Far East. I do not remember Yugoslavs. The medical profession on ships is my specialty.
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 06: 08 New
        +2
        Quote: phair
        I do not remember Yugoslavs.

        For 20 years, the USSR received from the SFRY more than 120 vessels and other floating objects. Between 1981 and 1985 98 more sea and river vessels will be built, including 15 tankers with a deadweight of 16,4 thousand tons and 3 crane vessels with a lifting capacity of up to 100 tons, river and sea tugs, a floating dock with a lifting force of 60 thousand tons, vessels for transporting fruits and vegetables .

        https://aif.ru/archive/1656856
        1. phair
          phair April 26 2020 06: 32 New
          0
          I'm talking about DV shipping company. For the Baltic, Black Sea Fleet and Northern Fleet I will not say.
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 08: 38 New
            0
            Quote: phair
            I'm talking about DV shipping company.

            My dad also fished in the Far East on Sakhalin in the 70s.
    2. Sklendarka
      Sklendarka April 26 2020 15: 35 New
      0
      Quote: mordvin xnumx
      Quote: phair
      I don’t remember anything else.

      Yugoslav brakes on Kamaz. And they made ships for us.

      And ,, yugovskie '' gloves, shoes ...
  • Proud.
    Proud. April 26 2020 07: 09 New
    +6
    Cigarettes. "Core" for example. Shoes were cool, if caught. And ..! Goyko Miticha, she still delivered to us. Let him in the GDR films laughing
    1. rich
      rich April 26 2020 07: 25 New
      +5
      In the USSR, Yugoslav cosmetics were valued. And the famous Yugoslav "fruit" coats "Novi Sad". Even the expression in the 70s for their lucky owners was - "fruit" yes My father had a Yugoslav fishing line. And of course Chingachguk of all times and peoples - Goiko Mitich
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 08: 40 New
        +1
        Quote: Rich
        Yugoslav fishing line.

        I don’t remember. The fishing line was valued by the GDR or Japanese, of our Klinskaya. I don’t remember Yugoslav.
      2. vladcub
        vladcub April 26 2020 15: 11 New
        +6
        Yugoslav furniture was very good. I don’t remember Yugoslav fishing line, but cosmetics, furniture, medicines.
    2. Free wind
      Free wind April 26 2020 07: 29 New
      +3
      Our big boys in the area said that Goiko Mitich is Russian, the KGB sent him with a secret mission. only they remade his name, So he’s Kolka Dmitrich. wassat
  • Free wind
    Free wind April 26 2020 07: 15 New
    +2
    Magiruses of Germany, not the GDR.
    1. phair
      phair April 26 2020 07: 36 New
      +1
      Wildly sorry. I fell in love with the outbreak. Germany.
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich April 26 2020 07: 32 New
    +3
    Quote: phair
    Letter from Yugoslavia. So dry soups called. I don’t remember anything else.

    Cool Yugoslav shoes were ...

    by tito, he launched an Albanian nationalist locust in Kosovo and he is the culprit of today's tragedy of the heart of Serbia.

    Under him, the borders within Yugoslavia were cut so that the Serbs on своих lands were included in ... Croatia and Big, which led to their genocide and expulsion from their homeland in the 90s .......

    something reminds ....
  • AU Ivanov.
    AU Ivanov. April 26 2020 10: 14 New
    +2
    Magiruses were FRGshny. The GDR supplied us with Robur trucks.
    1. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 April 29 2020 14: 27 New
      0
      Robur was a bigger cargo UAZ. And also the tiny green garbage trucks, forgot the name. By the way, the enterprise for the production of these micro-trucks is still preserved.
      1. AU Ivanov.
        AU Ivanov. April 29 2020 14: 29 New
        +1
        And there was IFA. Truck, something reminiscent of Shishig. With an air-cooled diesel engine.
  • Normal ok
    Normal ok April 27 2020 15: 11 New
    0
    Quote: phair
    Letter from Yugoslavia. So dry soups called. I don’t remember anything else. East Germany Magiruses, Robotrons. Bulgaria isot, vegetables, Hungary Ikarus, globe. Czech Republic, Poles Steel Will (wheel loader). Even the Mongols delivered cool hams and sheepskin coats.

    Supplement: Yugoslavia - shoes / clothes / medicine; Bulgaria - forklift trucks (Balkankar) + tourism.
  • Sergej1972
    Sergej1972 April 29 2020 14: 24 New
    0
    What about shoes? In general, trade between the USSR and the SFRY was quite large.
  • Horst78
    Horst78 April 26 2020 05: 48 New
    -2
    The experience of the SFRY clearly demonstrates the whole danger of "non-inheritance" of power. Power must be transferred from hand to hand. "Color" revolutions and the struggle for power after the death of the "leader" at best lead to "unrest." In the DPRK, this plan is clearly done. There is a leader and there is someone who will replace him. And everything is quiet.
    1. Avior
      Avior April 26 2020 10: 14 New
      +8
      And the experience of the Russian Empire shows the whole danger of the inheritance of power. At some point, the wrong person inherits power - and it ends badly ....
      1. vladcub
        vladcub April 26 2020 15: 04 New
        +3
        Kamrad Avior, I agree. Under Alexander 3, ALL sat on benches and got into one nostril, and henpecked Nikolai dismissed everything.
        Hereditary power has a lot of +, but it has -: EVERYTHING is tied to the PERSONALITY of the leader or, at worst, an intelligent assistant. It seems that Stalin joked: if an intelligent chief of staff, then a mediocre commander
        1. Astra wild
          Astra wild April 26 2020 19: 46 New
          0
          Maybe: "sniffles"? Probably the auto editor is "naughty"
    2. Normal ok
      Normal ok April 27 2020 15: 23 New
      -1
      Quote: Horst78
      The experience of the SFRY clearly demonstrates the whole danger of "non-inheritance" of power. Power must be transferred from hand to hand. "Color" revolutions and the struggle for power after the death of the "leader" at best lead to "unrest." In the DPRK, this plan is clearly done. There is a leader and there is someone who will replace him. And everything is quiet.

      Gorbachev gave birth to Yeltsin; Yeltsin - Putin; Putin - Medvedev; Medvedev - Putin)); Putin - Putin. Here the story goes in cycles. Continuity is however however evident.
  • Dart2027
    Dart2027 April 26 2020 07: 10 New
    +2
    It is known that immediately after the death of the Yugoslav leader, the medical history and documents on the treatment of Tito were kept secret for 75 years - they will be open only in 2055!
    Historical works make sense when they write about events that took place 200-300 years ago. All that is written about the end of the 19th - 20th centuries is just a set of results of "fortune telling on coffee grounds". Too much lies under the heading "secret" for some academician to really understand all the then, and even the current, layouts.
  • Unknown
    Unknown April 26 2020 07: 59 New
    +8
    about tito, everything is very confused, he initially, as soon as he started a guerrilla war, tried to sit on two chairs, maintaining relations both with the USSR and with Britain. here is an interesting remark from Marshal Aviation Golovanov ................... Once we received data on the arrival of the son of Churchill Randolph, who appeared there in the guise of a war correspondent, at the Supreme Headquarters. His appearance at Marshal Tito was not quite ordinary - he was dropped there by parachute.

    When I reported the information to Stalin, after a short pause, he said:

    - Keep in mind, the sons of the prime ministers do not jump on parachutes so easily and do not appear in other people's headquarters .................. so I.V. STALIN had every reason suspect tito in a double game, both ours and yours. so then it turned out what offers and guarantees were given by tito, churchill, probably no longer know, but the fact that the politics of the sphere became anti-Soviet is a fact. the entire post-war policy of tito was aimed at undermining the authority of the USSR in the socialist countries. with whom he had a good personal relationship, with Ceausescu, with Mao, and they, despite their communist past, did not have sympathy for the USSR. Tito sharply criticized the USSR for restoring order, both in Hungary and in the Czech Republic, on the assumption that he had full historical and moral law, following the results of the WWII. like comrade STALIN answered Churchill's speech in Fulton ........................... Secondly, we must not forget the following circumstance. The Germans invaded the USSR through Finland, Poland, Romania, Hungary. The Germans could invade through these countries because then in these countries there were governments hostile to the Soviet Union. As a result of the German invasion, the Soviet Union irretrievably lost about seven million people in the battles with the Germans, and also thanks to the German occupation and the theft of Soviet people into German hard labor. In other words, the Soviet Union lost people several times more than England and the United States of America combined. It is possible that in some places these colossal victims of the Soviet people, who ensured the liberation of Europe from the Hitlerite yoke, are inclined to oblivion. But the Soviet Union cannot forget about them ...................... more clearly and cannot be explained. and it turns out that Tito is an ardent anti-Soviet and Russophobe.
    1. vladcub
      vladcub April 26 2020 14: 47 New
      +2
      V. N, to you +: as usual, everything was laid out on the shelves
  • samarin1969
    samarin1969 April 26 2020 08: 25 New
    +6
    I did not like the excessive criticality of the article. Just picking in the details.
    As the hero of Kusturica said: "Do not touch Tito! Tito - there is Tito!"

    Marshall Tito was a worthy ruler. It was not easy for him. But the peoples of Yugoslavia lived well. Light industry was well represented by goods in the USSR. I remember the soap, bright tracksuits, clothes. And all of excellent quality. Yugoslavia was a very effective ally in the war. And Tito was the leader of this struggle. Many historians consider the struggle of the Serbs, on the eve of the Barbarossa, simply suicidal. But the Yugoslavs "did not bend" like most "democracies".
    Joseph Broz Tito was a respected person in the world. On the chronicle of his funeral, the entire political elite of the world.
    1. phair
      phair April 26 2020 09: 16 New
      +2
      There is an opinion (I support him) that the German invasion of Serbia delayed the start of the war until June 22. I am grateful for this.
      1. vladcub
        vladcub April 26 2020 14: 43 New
        +3
        Quote: phair
        There is an opinion (I support him) that the German invasion of Serbia delayed the start of the war until June 22. I am grateful for this.

        This is a real fact and has long been known.
        I don’t remember the details, it seems that the Serbian nationalist officers staged a military coup and the Germans were forced to get stuck there
    2. Octopus
      Octopus April 26 2020 13: 18 New
      +1
      Quote: samarin1969
      But the peoples of Yugoslavia lived well

      Regarding what? Neighboring Austria? Italy? Greece?
      Quote: samarin1969
      And Tito was the leader of this struggle.

      After the war, he became the leader of this struggle. There were some questions during the war.
      1. samarin1969
        samarin1969 April 26 2020 15: 15 New
        +3
        Quote: Octopus
        Quote: samarin1969
        But the peoples of Yugoslavia lived well

        Regarding what? Neighboring Austria? Italy? Greece?
        Quote: samarin1969
        And Tito was the leader of this struggle.

        After the war, he became the leader of this struggle. There were some questions during the war.


        In SFRY there was a reasonable balance of small private property and state-owned enterprises. There were wonderful culture and sport. There were no special crises and national clashes. This is already good. In Greece there was a gloomy period of "black colonels". In Italy - the ubiquitous mafia, political instability. Textbooks zombified everyone with “the amount of GDP per capita,“ the development of democracy. ”For the joys of life, the South needed a free culture, a reliable army, and an average income.
        According to my naive ideas, Tito's socialism is a more balanced system than the extreme power of corporations or the USSR. But national contradictions will destroy more than one state. Any multi-nation state requires its own authoritative "Tito."
        1. Octopus
          Octopus April 26 2020 15: 51 New
          -3
          Quote: samarin1969
          In SFRY there was a reasonable balance of small private property and state-owned enterprises.

          A reasonable balance between private property and state-owned enterprises is the rejection of state-owned enterprises. All other types of balance are unreasonable. Actually, the figures of GDP and per capita income here are the only guideline.
          Quote: samarin1969
          In Greece there was a gloomy period of "black colonels". In Italy - the ubiquitous mafia, political instability.

          What is the gloom of the period of the colonels and what is the problem of political instability regarding the stability of Tito? Does your understanding of stability include the civil war following Tito’s rule, or does Tito have nothing to do with it?
          Quote: samarin1969
          Tito's socialism is a more balanced system than the extreme power of corporations or the USSR

          Regarding the USSR, yes, with respect to Austria, it is somehow not striking.
          Quote: samarin1969
          Any multi-nation state requires its own authoritative "Tito."

          1. How is Switzerland, which not only has four peoples, but three more of them have their own states, which are much more powerful both numerically and militarily, does without Tito?
          2. Here the multinational state of Czechoslovakia ceased to exist, unlike Yugoslavia, without self-mutilation. Who is worse off?
          1. Kronos
            Kronos April 26 2020 22: 36 New
            +2
            State-owned enterprises are much better than private ones. In Europe, after optimizing medicine for the markets, it was now necessary even to nationalize part of the private now
            1. Octopus
              Octopus April 26 2020 23: 38 New
              0
              Quote: Kronos
              State-owned enterprises are much better than private ones. In Europe, after optimizing medicine for the markets, it was now necessary even to nationalize part of the private now

              Great example. It would be especially interesting to find out exactly who carried out the optimization of medicine for the markets.
              1. Kronos
                Kronos April 26 2020 23: 47 New
                -2
                Capitalists are all within the framework of liberal dogma
                1. Octopus
                  Octopus April 27 2020 00: 01 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Kronos
                  Capitalists are all within the framework of liberal dogma

                  Is it in Spain, perhaps, capitalists and liberal dogmas? Or in Italy? Belgium? And there is definitely no public health there, are you sure?
                  1. Kronos
                    Kronos 1 May 2020 11: 45 New
                    -3
                    Yes, as part of this, massive reductions in medicine were carried out where it was not like in Germany, for example, or in the Scandinavian countries, the situation is much better with treatment
                    1. Octopus
                      Octopus 1 May 2020 18: 43 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Kronos
                      as part of this, massive reductions of medicine were carried out where it was not like in Germany, for example

                      Do I understand you correctly that the Spanish Socialist Workers' Party, ruling in Spain, is the capitalists residing within the framework of liberal dogmas, and the Christian Democratic Union are, respectively, non-capitalists and their norms, respectively, are non-liberal?
                2. Tugarin
                  Tugarin 1 May 2020 11: 28 New
                  -5
                  The capitalists have never been within the framework of liberal dogma
    3. AllBiBek
      AllBiBek April 27 2020 02: 34 New
      +1
      I will say more; the beginning of the implementation of the Barbarossa plan (and this is the end of May) was postponed for a month, largely due to the actions of the Yugoslav partisans, which divert considerable forces, which, for some reason, today few people remember and recall.

      History does not tolerate a subjunctive mood, of course, but if the Germans had begun the invasion at the end of May, in all other circumstances, most likely the USSR would have been among the winners of that war. But - Moscow, most likely, would have been taken before the winter, Peter - not the fact that it would have held on, but rather this meat grinder would have ended with the fact that the USSR would have barely reached the pre-war borders when the nuclear-loaf fell on Berlin.
      1. Astra wild
        Astra wild April 27 2020 11: 52 New
        +1
        I would like to hear your arguments
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar April 26 2020 09: 29 New
    0
    Therefore, already in the mid-80s, the West promptly curtailed the program of concessional lending to the SFRY

    Who should borrow grandmother to whom at all, what nonsense ...
    1. Avior
      Avior April 26 2020 10: 02 New
      0
      If you don’t give debts to creditors, they may not give new loans, it’s somehow logical even smile
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar April 26 2020 10: 19 New
        +2
        No - in this case there was a conspiracy of the decaying West for the sake of discrimination against the countries of victorious socialism am
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar April 26 2020 11: 05 New
            +4
            laughing ..That was sarcasm
            In fact, the author himself writes that Tito collected debts from all who could to ensure a beautiful lifestyle of different peoples, not gravitating to life together. Grandmas ended - everything fell apart
        2. Octopus
          Octopus April 26 2020 13: 20 New
          +1
          Quote: Krasnodar
          conspiracy of a rotting West for the sake of discrimination against countries of victorious socialism

          The authors told you in Russian. She ate by the example of Yugoslavia rehearsed the collapse of the USSR. Jimmy Carter rehearsed who would have thought of him like that.
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar April 26 2020 13: 40 New
            +1
            He hoped to be re-elected many terms ahead laughing
          2. Octopus
            Octopus April 26 2020 14: 26 New
            +2
            Quote: Octopus
            Bit

            Backstage.
            Quote: Krasnodar
            He hoped to be re-elected many terms ahead

            Two were enough for Reagan.
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 17: 08 New
              0
              Quote: Octopus
              Two were enough for Reagan.

              What's the point? His sclerosis killed.
              1. Octopus
                Octopus April 26 2020 17: 14 New
                +1
                Quote: mordvin xnumx
                His sclerosis killed.

                Reagan or the USSR?
                1. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 17: 17 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Octopus
                  Reagan

                  Reagan. He suffered from alzheimer. And the USSR too.
                  1. Octopus
                    Octopus April 26 2020 17: 57 New
                    +5
                    ))

                    Reagan lived longer. 1911-2004.
                    1. Mordvin 3
                      Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 18: 01 New
                      0
                      Quote: Octopus
                      Reagan lived longer.

                      He suffered from sclerosis at the end of his life. Gorby was still mocking him.
                      1. Octopus
                        Octopus April 26 2020 18: 08 New
                        +2
                        Quote: mordvin xnumx
                        He suffered from sclerosis at the end of his life.

                        I know.

                        He had enough time.
      2. Pissarro
        Pissarro April 26 2020 13: 45 New
        +7
        And by the way, Ceausescu gave all the debts of Romania. Therefore, it was impossible to overthrow him through the economy. We decided to buy an environment, like Saddam.
  • Undecim
    Undecim April 26 2020 09: 32 New
    +8
    Yugoslavia is the epicenter of centuries-old and still unresolved interstate and interethnic contradictions.
    As soon as the unifying principle disappears, be it the Ottoman Empire or the dictatorship of Tito, as old conflicts break out immediately. And the presence of the “hand of the West”, which the authors focus on, is not at all important here.
    And the collapse of Yugoslavia decided nothing.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave April 26 2020 17: 00 New
      0
      And what’s the main thing, Viktor Nikolaevich?
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar April 26 2020 18: 43 New
        +1
        Hello Anton!
        The main thing is always money laughing Without them, the peoples did not want to live together, with Slovenia becoming the only highly developed country, the rest being typical Eastern European holes like Montenegro
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave April 26 2020 19: 01 New
          0
          About Montenegro, I realized for myself five years ago why I went to Rhodes.
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar April 26 2020 19: 42 New
            +1
            That's right, there's nothing to do there))
        2. Sergej1972
          Sergej1972 April 29 2020 14: 32 New
          +1
          Slovenia stood out as part of the SFRY. Even Croatia lagged behind it very much. And by the way, Tito is still well treated in Tito.
      2. Undecim
        Undecim April 27 2020 08: 47 New
        +1
        And what’s the main thing, Viktor Nikolaevich?
        The first sentence.
    2. Tycoon
      Tycoon April 27 2020 14: 45 New
      +1
      right thought ..... the problems of the SFRY are buried much deeper ....
  • prior
    prior April 26 2020 09: 34 New
    +3
    The experience of Tito and Yugoslavia clearly shows how dangerous "zeroing" is.
    But no one else’s experience teaches anyone, each “nullified” must step on his rake.
  • Leo_59
    Leo_59 April 26 2020 09: 38 New
    +3
    The article is good for informativeness and correct-objective presentation style, without explicit bias.
    A characteristic example of the inevitable results of "leaderism" is described (when only the leader is dedicated and knows all the principles and subtleties of management).
    If there is a continuation of the topic, I would like to know very specifically about all the disagreements of the two Josephs.
    1. Procyon lotor
      Procyon lotor April 27 2020 16: 20 New
      0
      Without explicit engagement!
      [/ quote] Therefore, already in mid-80s, the West promptly curtailed the program of concessional lending to the SFRY, increasingly demanding that Belgrade pay off accumulated debts. By the end of the 80s, they exceeded $ 28 billion. Among other things, it was a question of paying fines for non-payments and for short deliveries of Yugoslav goods. Moreover, no one in the leadership of the SFRY even remotely could compare with the erudition, authority, and political abilities of Tito. This all the more facilitated the policy of the West to stimulate the destruction of Yugoslavia. [Quote]

      It would be more true to say that massive borrowing did not begin after Tito’s death, but long before his death in 1980. In 1971, Yugoslavia’s external debt amounted to 3 billion, and 1980 already 18 billion. And by the end of the 80s, not 28 billion, and 21 billion by the 87th year. So the assertion that Tito was more erudite and possessed higher political abilities in comparison with his successors is not true.

      Although who needs the truth these days
      1. Leo_59
        Leo_59 April 27 2020 21: 02 New
        0
        For me, the historical truth is reliable facts, with a description of the most important circumstances. The greatest value is generalized and systematized information.
        If the information in detail is incomplete, it can be supplemented by meticulous readers. As you did))
        The evidence-based (or intuitive) interpretation of facts and the variation of conclusions on this information when it is popularized is the right of both authors and readers.
        I even successful leadership in life, I do not approve, although I can fully pay tribute to the personality itself. I don’t approve, because if a leader didn’t thoroughly and deeply substantiate his goals during his life, he didn’t publicly and scrupulously prove the necessity of his actions, didn’t leave his students, or at least didn’t even write a small, but valuable brochure - that means he lived more for himself and left nothing in the inheritance. Fatal examples in history can not be counted. While the followers will figure out what and how - en "late to drink Borjomi." And now Somewhere Something is brewing.
        About "who really cares." I do not understand your thesis literally (quantitatively), but as an annoyance at underestimating Tito. As stated above, this is your right. Although how to relate it to the current life, I do not really understand (IMHO). Nobody, as I understand it, studied the Tito’s legacy in his homeland.
  • Avior
    Avior April 26 2020 10: 00 New
    +2
    In my “Soviet" memory, Yugoslavia remained a socialist state, but with features, it was neutral in the press, there is little information, the main source of information about Yugoslavia is films from the TV series about Zhikina dynasty smile
    https://youtu.be/Z0lWBKhiv4Q

    Goyko Mitich was also, of course, but they didn’t show that about life in Yugoslavia :))
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 10: 36 New
      -1
      Quote: Avior
      Goiko Mitic was also

      Isn't he from the GDR?
      1. Avior
        Avior April 26 2020 11: 01 New
        0
        No, he is from Yugoslavia, Serb, as far as I remember
      2. toha124
        toha124 April 26 2020 11: 18 New
        +2
        Osterns were mostly filmed in the GDR. But actor Mitich is from Yugoslavia. It seems to be a Serb.
      3. Sklendarka
        Sklendarka April 26 2020 15: 38 New
        +2
        Quote: mordvin xnumx
        Quote: Avior
        Goiko Mitic was also

        Isn't he from the GDR?

        There was an American Dean Reed from the GDR ... as everything was messed up in the Oblonsky house ...
      4. Aviator_
        Aviator_ April 26 2020 18: 01 New
        +2
        This movie is GDRovsky, the company DEFA, and he is a Serb.
  • alone
    alone April 26 2020 10: 59 New
    +5
    But has Russia already recognized Kosovo? If not, why on the map of Kosovo is shown as a separate country with its flag? It was probably difficult to look for another map. negative
    1. Caretaker
      Caretaker April 26 2020 11: 31 New
      0
      We see German tanks on the posters by May 9, why should the authors of this article not use western templates? Perhaps just ignorance of geography?
      1. alone
        alone April 26 2020 12: 08 New
        +2
        Quote: Caretaker
        We see German tanks on the posters by May 9, why should the authors of this article not use western templates? Perhaps just ignorance of geography?


        I think both editors and those who write articles should be more careful in such matters.
        1. FIR FIR
          FIR FIR April 26 2020 12: 58 New
          +4
          If tanks are unaware of geography, then soldiers of WaffenSS are unknowingly
          biology, and the German helmet, apparently, out of ignorance ... of physics.
          But in reality - this is all criminal illiteracy, embraced with criminal indifference.
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 April 26 2020 11: 08 New
    +2
    As a result, Tito was right and no center could hold on to power. And they gouged Yugoslavia with the direct connivance and betrayal of EBN.
    1. vladcub
      vladcub April 26 2020 14: 28 New
      +3
      Just then, Russia tried to help Yugoslavia. Another thing is that Russia under EBN was in the position of the Upper Volta, and China then looked at it as a circus. When the Americans got to the Chinese embassy, ​​they didn’t even really scold in Beijing
    2. Aviator_
      Aviator_ April 26 2020 18: 09 New
      0
      I was always amazed at the incredible throw of our paratroopers in 1999 at the Pristina airfield — they occupied, sat, and cleaned. Infa recently passed that a more ambitious operation was being prepared to organize our area of ​​responsibility there. The first step went well, but someone leaked the info to the Kozyrev Foreign Ministry (before that, the Romanians and Bulgarians agreed to let our sides pass with “humanitarian aid”). But after the stench raised by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, naturally, there was no longer any talk of any air corridor.
  • Caretaker
    Caretaker April 26 2020 11: 24 New
    +2
    Titov’s camps, unlike many Stalin’s, were closed in 1962-1963.

    When, according to the authors of the article, were the "Stalinist" camps closed?
  • DNS-a42
    DNS-a42 April 26 2020 13: 10 New
    +3
    An instructive story: the restoration of capitalism -> the growth of nationalism -> disintegration on a national basis.
    1. Astra wild
      Astra wild April 26 2020 19: 37 New
      +3
      This, perhaps, where there is no real socialist idea.
      In the civil war, the ideas of socialism were clear to both the Hungarians (Mate Zalka) and the French Maurice Thorez.
      Once in my childhood I watched the movie "Salute Maria" I remember how the main character distributed Bolshevik leaflets among the interventionists. And when the Makhnovist-bandit ordered her to undress, and she sang in French. I even cried. Then I didn’t find out what kind of song it was, but the motive was not the International, probably some kind of great song. Perhaps in the coming days I will look for this film to review.
  • vladcub
    vladcub April 26 2020 14: 22 New
    +3
    Quote: bandabas
    Judging by the actions of our "leadership" can and destroy the Russian Federation.

    It would be a desire, but you can destroy everything
  • vladcub
    vladcub April 26 2020 14: 31 New
    +1
    Quote: mordvin xnumx
    FIR

    Where did you see a German with that name and surname?
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 16: 57 New
      0
      Quote: vladcub
      Where did you see a German with that name and surname?

      And where is the name with the surname? recourse
    2. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave April 26 2020 17: 26 New
      +3
      Von Brauchitsch, Field Marshal of the Wehrmacht, also a Serb?
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 18: 05 New
        0
        Quote: 3x3zsave
        Von Brauchitsch,

        Oh, EKLMN Hitler produced it in the Germans. laughing
      2. Aviator_
        Aviator_ April 26 2020 18: 13 New
        +3
        In the late 60s there was a GDR film about the field marshal’s nephew, Manfred von Brauchitsch, a race car driver. It was called "There is no victory without a fight." Good film. Manfred was a simple athlete, “Schumacher” of the time, quite apolitical. After the war he moved to the GDR.
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild April 26 2020 19: 11 New
    +1
    "he heard that we had problems and asked if I needed help for Yugoslavia" just like a kid from a kindergarten: "I will tell my older brother, and he is already in the 2nd grade!"
    I personally am not pleased that the Soviet Union used it as a scarecrow for its political opponents: "Look, the Russians will come and they will cut you," so his words can be regarded.
    In fact, he admitted that he lacked authority.
  • EvilLion
    EvilLion April 27 2020 08: 34 New
    -4
    It’s just that Joseph Vissarionovich understood well when he refused Western loans and any Marshall plans, how they would end, but Joseph Tito did not. Unfortunately, Vissarionitch was older and lived after WWII for less than 8 years.
    1. Tycoon
      Tycoon April 27 2020 14: 44 New
      -1
      It’s you who tell the European countries about Marshall’s bad plan ..... And Vissarionych acted more simply - he finally bent the people and due to him (the people) and the USSR got out after the war ...... Wise Stalin lived less than 8 years after graduation. .... but that was enough .......
  • Procyon lotor
    Procyon lotor April 27 2020 11: 17 New
    +3
    [/ quote] Therefore, already in the mid-80s, the West promptly curtailed the program of concessional lending to the SFRY, increasingly demanding that Belgrade pay off accumulating debts. By the end of the 80s, they exceeded $ 28 billion. Among other things, it was a question of paying fines for non-payments and for short deliveries of Yugoslav goods. Moreover, no one in the leadership of the SFRY even remotely could compare with the erudition, authority, and political abilities of Tito. This all the more facilitated the policy of the West to stimulate the destruction of Yugoslavia. [Quote]


    It would be more true to say that massive lending did not begin after Tito’s death, but long before his death in 1980. In 1971, Yugoslavia’s external debt amounted to 3 billion, and 1980 already 18 billion. And by the end of the 80s, not 28 billion, and 21 billion by the 87th year. So the statement that Tito was more erudite and possessed higher political abilities in comparison with his predecessors does not correspond to the truth.

    Although who needs the truth these days
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild April 27 2020 11: 56 New
    +1
    Quote: Krasnodar
    Hello Anton!
    The main thing is always money laughing Without them, the peoples did not want to live together, with Slovenia becoming the only highly developed country, the rest being typical Eastern European holes like Montenegro

    Have you personally checked or judged on TV
  • Tycoon
    Tycoon April 27 2020 14: 39 New
    -2
    The collapse of the SFRY was logical - only by force and strong leader could different nations and different nationalities be kept in one state ....... Tito was a strong leader, it must be admitted - after him there was nobody and this incidentally is Tito’s mistake, man is not eternal - and after him there are no high-quality receivers and high-quality ideas of a new state format - that’s how it all began to collapse ....
  • Kapellan23
    Kapellan23 April 27 2020 17: 09 New
    +2
    The collapse of Yugoslavia was a foregone conclusion when the socialists who seized it began to apply the territorial structure of the nat. republics (as in the USSR never before and did not have their own statehood). If not for the coup, then Yugoslavia had a chance to survive the world war as Spain, while maintaining a unitary state, but the British worked well.

    1. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 April 29 2020 14: 35 New
      0
      Croatia existed as an autonomous part of Hungary, which, in turn, was part of the dual Austro-Hungarian Empire. And the royal government of Yugoslavia was forced to restore in the late 30s. Croatian banovina. The Montenegrins existed until 1918, their independent state.
  • Sergej1972
    Sergej1972 April 29 2020 14: 10 New
    0
    The situation in dynamics is not shown. Until the early 60s. The FPRY was a fairly centralized federation. Since the beginning of the 60s. there was a gradual expansion of the powers of the republics and communities. And according to the 1974 constitution, the SFRY became a cross between a federation and a confederation. I do not agree with the thesis of the weak influence of the Central Committee of the UCC on state leadership. After the death of Tito, the Chairpersons of the Presidium of the Central Committee of the UCC were considered more powerful figures in comparison with the Chairmen of the Presidium of the SFRY and the chairmen of the Union Executive Council (Government). It was also in the republics. Naturally, the situation changed in the late 80s.
  • Sergej1972
    Sergej1972 April 29 2020 14: 11 New
    0
    In addition to Tito, a huge role was played by Rankovic (up to a certain point) and Kardel, who had very different views on the fate of the Yugoslav federation.
  • Sergej1972
    Sergej1972 April 29 2020 14: 39 New
    0
    We must pay tribute to the Yugoslavs, their criticism of Stalin and the USSR in the early 50s was not as unbridled as the criticism of Tito and his supporters in the USSR. There were publications that, allegedly, before his death, Stalin was going to restore relations between the two countries at the interstate level (although diplomatic relations were never interrupted) while recognizing the differences between the parties. But I did not find serious evidence of this in the scientific literature.
    1. Selevc
      Selevc 4 May 2020 14: 10 New
      0
      The powder keg of Europe once again exploded in the 90s of the 20th century ... At the same time, thank God the war turned out not to be World but regional ...
      The article is very interesting, but it writes little about the influence of European states on Yugoslavia in the 20th century - in particular, the influence of Britain on Serbia and Germany on Croatia ...
      The Kingdom of Yugoslavia is a completely artificial state formation that appeared after the end of World War I on the fragments of Austria-Hungary ... I think that this was facilitated by the desire of Britain, France and the United States to create some kind of local counterbalance to Germany and Turkey in the Balkans ...
      Later, the history of the SFRY is a balancing act between the two camps during the Cold War ... And after the fall of the Iron Curtain, the SFRY was not needed by anyone. And what's more, the influential world powers became interested in the scenario of the breakdown of the SFRY ... The FRG had interests in Croatia, Russia in Serbia, Turkey in Bosnia ... And the region split along traditional religious and ethnic borders ...

      Economically, it can be said that the SFRY lived beautifully in the 60-80s of the 20th century on credit ... And in the late 80s the Flood came !!!