Military Review

Following the minister’s statement: following the T-14 Armata tank, they are trying to send Kurganets and Boomerang to Syria

63

The informational silence, which lasted quite a while over the promising models of armored vehicles for the Russian army and caused, in my opinion, preparations for the military parade on May 9, was suddenly broken. The Minister of Industry and Trade Denis Manturov announced the sending to Syria of promising tanks "Armata" for testing.


The statement by Minister Manturov was puzzled by many experts. Armata in Syria ... There were conversations and rumors about sending other types of military equipment for testing. Why is this happening? Why do rumors continue to multiply?

T-14 Armata will participate in hostilities as a "civilian vehicle"


Most specialists immediately had questions about this. Starting from the simplest, why such a statement is made not by a representative of the Ministry of Defense, but by the Minister of Industry, and ending with a little more complex, which tests can only be carried out in Syria. We will leave the conversations that until the machine is adopted by the Armed Forces of Russia, the civilian ministry is responsible for its creation and passing tests, we will leave it to others.

Throw a new, fairly expensive and secret tank in a civilian crew into battle? How can this be done without the participation of the Ministry of Defense? Tests of the manufacturing plant can give a great head start to soldiers and officers in working on this tank, but they did not participate in real hostilities and their advantages on the battlefield disappear instantly.

It is clear that Denis Manturov, as a high-level government official, will not just throw words into the wind. It is real that several cars are actually delivered to Syria. According to my estimates, this is not more than ten cars maximum. Our BDK simply can not take on board anymore. 10-13 tanks is the maximum, and given the mass of Armata, 10 is not more.

Doubt creeps in from just one. The capabilities of modern intelligence allow the same Americans to control all supplies to Russian bases. As, incidentally, we have supplies for the American. The appearance of "Armata" would have been noticed even during loading and transportation. “We know and keep silent” is not an American principle. And the US military is silent. NATO is silent.

It is very likely that the hype that began in connection with Mansurov's statement is necessary precisely for the Minister of Industry and Trade. It is necessary to stir up interest in this car among potential buyers. And Syria? Syria is a place that is comparable in its climatic and natural conditions to those of potential buyers.

Following Armata, “Kurganets-25” and “Boomerang” can “go to war”


Much more interesting is the fate of other cars, which are also "silent" today. But which are mentioned in a statement by Denis Manturov, published by RIA News:

I can preliminarily say that the Kurganets-25 and Boomerang tests are planned to be completed in 2022.

Many people remember that almost every year the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation and the manufacturers of these military vehicles say that “now, literally tomorrow, the day after tomorrow, or at the very least next year”, the army will receive new infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers. Naturally, there has already been talk about the fact that samples of these machines will also be sent for testing in Syria.

I must admit that this is not the first campaign "to send to Syria" such armored vehicles. The first time these cars were "seen" there exactly a year ago, at the end of March and the beginning of April 2019. It was then that the Russian media, with reference to the fighters of the Syrian army and pro-government activists, spread information about the alleged participation of these infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers almost in the fighting. True, the news came out on April 1, which added "intrigue". Confirmation, of course, no.

By the way, then almost none of their journalists had the simplest question about the competence of these same fighters and activists. Ask the Russian army officer now what he knows about the promising developments of the same Americans, Israelis, French, Germans, Chinese? It is unlikely that you will get a clear answer even about the appearance of promising cars. And the Syrian soldiers possess such information ...

Talk that the Kurganets and Boomerang will be tested in Syria arose simply after the statement of Manturov. To experience so to experience. All at once ... By inertia ...

And there are no official confirmations.

War as the most effective way to compete

  
Indeed, the costs of designing, manufacturing and testing combat vehicles are enormous. Producers today must not only produce, but also earn. That is, it is necessary to convince potential buyers that the purchase of products of this particular manufacturer will give the buyer advantages in the military field over potential opponents.

Competition at the “dispute on paper” level is not effective. The participation of products in hostilities is another matter. Agree, even today it is stupid to advertise a Kalashnikov assault rifle. How stupid it is to advertise "Grad" or "Tornado". It was participation in hostilities that served as the best advertisement for a fairly large number of types of weapons and military equipment. 

The fate of well-known modern Russian products is very indicative for understanding the situation on the arms market. How interesting our S-400 complex became to foreigners after Turkey bought them. This is even without the direct participation of the complex in hostilities! How afraid the pilots are to enter the area controlled by the S-400.

And another Su-57 aircraft complex. Even flights in the sky of Syria, confirmed by the Russian Ministry of Defense, even a “meeting” with American planes in the same sky, did not lead to an increase in buyers' interest in this aircraft. By the way, all of the above can be attributed to "Armata".

Brief conclusion


The coronavirus pandemic in the world has hit the economies of many countries quite strongly. Affected the military industry. If before the defense industry enterprises could afford to produce some kind of products for quite a long time, thanks to long-term contracts with their own armed forces, today the situation has changed.

And it has changed dramatically. Products became expensive and the Ministry of Defense can no longer purchase immediately and a lot. Manufacturers are forced to look for buyers "on the side." So, today in military production the same mechanisms are included that operate in the production of civilian products.

This explains the fact that the statement on the participation of the Armata tank in tests in Syria is made by the Minister of Industry and Trade, and not by the Minister of Defense or someone from the defense department. 
Author:
63 comments
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  1. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek April 23 2020 06: 46 New
    12
    A Kurgan is much more urgent for our troops in Syria than Armata .... look at what level of technology the Americans and the Air Force are patrolling .... there is a difference in bullet resistance and explosion resistance. Typhoon only look adequately.
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 April 23 2020 07: 10 New
      +6
      Carrying out police and patrol operations on heavily armored vehicles is not always justified. Although, lightly armored vehicles should protect fighters from low-intensity conflicts effectively.
      In general, this is a compromise .... but it’s time to launch a new technique that is better in most respects. The life of our fighters is the most important thing, anyway.
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek April 23 2020 07: 22 New
        +6
        It depends on what threats .... BTR-82 as their "main caliber" is clearly not the best choice.
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 April 23 2020 07: 50 New
          0
          The technique is proven, but .... better protection is needed there.
          The region is full of various weapons and there is someone to use it.
          1. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek April 23 2020 07: 54 New
            +1
            And you won’t do better .... will not pull ....
            1. rocket757
              rocket757 April 23 2020 08: 18 New
              -1
              We need new models with the best performance characteristics.
              They, as it were, already exist ... I hope the new prime minister will not repeat the notorious "no money, but you ....."!
              Saving on the lives of our fighters is a crime.
              1. Zaurbek
                Zaurbek April 23 2020 08: 20 New
                0
                Concepts done ..... MRIs are enough for patrolling and the Urals and Kamaz .... Kurgan can and wait.
                1. NEXUS
                  NEXUS April 23 2020 14: 02 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Zaurbek
                  Concepts done ..... MRIs are enough for patrolling and the Urals and Kamaz .... Kurgan can and wait.

                  What vegetable? You yourself weren’t tired of these breakfasts and about the time shifts? The technique should work and be tested in the most realistic conditions. Well, mattresses will see all this in Syria, and then what? They saw it all at the Parade. There is one question, it’s important that this equipment does not fall into the hands of the adversary.
                  1. Actor
                    Actor April 23 2020 14: 40 New
                    +4
                    uh ... are there any secret magic technologies in boomerang and kurgan ??
                    "ordinary" BMP / armored personnel carriers plus or minus in the hospital.
                    1. NEXUS
                      NEXUS April 23 2020 14: 46 New
                      0
                      Quote: Ator
                      uh ... are there any secret magic technologies in boomerang and kurgan ??

                      Tell me, is there any secret magic technology in Bradley or in Abrash? Why are mattresses hardened on 72 purchased from Ukraine, shooting them at the ranges from Abrams guns and blowing them up with anti-tank systems?
                      1. Actor
                        Actor April 23 2020 14: 49 New
                        +3
                        ahh you mean steal and check for armor resistance.
                        so the feeling is that all piranha strikers are boxers - they don’t hold our last birds and tandem RPGs. (in profile)
                        So from what a fright in the opposite direction it should not work.
                        I strongly doubt that the Kurgan and the boomerang will hold the last toe to the Bochin or Jewel / spike to the roof.
                      2. NEXUS
                        NEXUS April 23 2020 14: 53 New
                        -4
                        Quote: Ator
                        I strongly doubt that the Kurgan and the boomerang will hold the last toe to the Bochin or Jewel / spike to the roof.

                        And you don’t take into account the armored capsule at all and the survival of the crew?
                2. Zaurbek
                  Zaurbek April 23 2020 15: 37 New
                  +2
                  What is the secret in Typhoons? Order and produce ..... Kurgan is more complicated and expensive. But not fundamentally needed there.
                  1. Alexander mosin
                    Alexander mosin April 23 2020 17: 07 New
                    -2
                    Quote: Zaurbek
                    What is the secret in Typhoons?

                    German armor. Metal-ceramic boards for Typhoons were delivered before the sanction by the Germans, like Rheinmetall.
    2. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U April 23 2020 08: 20 New
      +1
      Quote: rocket757
      Carrying out police patrol operations on heavily armored vehicles is not always justified
      But its presence in reach is highly desirable, US-sheep in Mogadishu and Pakistanis saved.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 April 23 2020 08: 40 New
        +2
        No question, the "help" team should always be within operational availability! To be so powerful, Schaub could turn anyone's head at once.
        1. novel66
          novel66 April 23 2020 08: 47 New
          +5
          and this is aviation, so quickly and to the smack ... Vitya, hello hi
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 April 23 2020 09: 45 New
            0
            Hello Roman soldier
            For me, all means are good if it saves the lives of our fighters!
    3. avg
      avg April 23 2020 11: 31 New
      -3
      Of course, the T-14 was not used for patrolling, nor was it used for classic databases. They tested it precisely - they set the task, prepared the provision and cover, performed the task, took indicators and analyzed the results. No one drags dozens of cars for such tests, a maximum of a platoon + one for insurance, and actions in a platoon are just one of the tasks, most of the tests are for 1-2 cars. Disguise during transportation on trailers and proper use of electronic warfare equipment will not be difficult. Manturov’s level of lies if it doesn’t exclude ... nevertheless inspires confidence.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 April 23 2020 12: 08 New
        +4
        Hide something in an Arab country ???
        There it "flows from all the cracks," so the "elite" know about the event before the locals know about it.
        1. avg
          avg April 23 2020 12: 22 New
          0
          Quote: rocket757
          ... maybe the "elite" know about the event before the locals know about it.

          Then these are questions to us ..
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 April 23 2020 12: 26 New
            +2
            Are you serious? Engage in counterintelligence in the country of the Arab world, in which civil confrontation is added to the usual mess!
            It will take many years there to bring at least some sort of order and very tough measures, besides. Our guests, if not guests, are not far from that.
            In general, you do not just need illusions.
            1. avg
              avg April 23 2020 12: 49 New
              -2
              I have no illusions. I know what I'm writing about. And it is not counterintelligence that deals with such things, but intelligence. In the case of our tests, or sending captured samples, they work together with sappers, special operations forces, electronic warfare agents and away.
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 April 23 2020 13: 01 New
                +2
                Firstly, they will not disregard a bunch of incomprehensible people scurrying around incomprehensible technology! If only a stationary object, okay, you can “get a fence and cover it with a roof. You can hide a mobile object from the attention of others, you still have to be able to ... it didn't work out before, now all the more so, with the present developed means of intelligence and communication.
                Intelligence, counter intelligence, functionality, goals and objectives are different. Moreover, without local kontrikov ours there is nothing to do there at all.
  2. antivirus
    antivirus April 23 2020 08: 55 New
    -3
    Lada Priora is already being used on the Damascus-Jerusalem merchrut by taxi drivers and the Ministry of India is ready to purchase this Renault from Togliatti
    .... sorry for the error for 23 days.

    more important - transportation of flour and other humanitarian aid for freebies
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek April 23 2020 08: 56 New
      +1
      It should be used there .... directly from ChechenAvto.
  3. Thrifty
    Thrifty April 23 2020 12: 54 New
    +3
    Manturov forgot to add that near the coast of Syria they saw a Leader-class destroyer - in the amount of 3 pieces, and all 4 Russian helicopter carriers. ... fool
  • Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I April 23 2020 07: 22 New
    +4
    And what can I "say" here? I have already expressed my opinion about "Armata in Syria" in the comments! True, they minus "childishly cruel" ... but I treat the minuses "violet"! The "minus players" themselves do not understand that a large number of minuses is a reason for "pride"! For these minuses, as well as pluses, show the number of people who paid attention to the comment! laughing Worse, I think, when the zeros! As for the Syrian tests of new armored vehicles, I am inclined to support those who say that sending Kurgan and boomerangs to Syria will bring more practical benefits to the troops than sending Armata ... (Well, what about Armata? The base district will roll ... shoot at targets ... and perhaps truncated!) But "boomerangs", "kurgans" can be practically used, throwing special forces along the highways under fire! I do not advise ramming "johns" ... they will take advantage of the occasion and try to knock out armored vehicles ... As I already said, in order to "ram", you must take IMRs with you! It's not difficult to explain the reason here!
    1. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins April 23 2020 07: 51 New
      +7
      The feeling that this statement was made so that an unnamed author would write another "delirium of grandfather Macarius" on VO! laughing
      1. Borz
        Borz April 23 2020 08: 34 New
        +2
        Well, at least they deleted this nonsense, otherwise the real zashkvar was
    2. Private-K
      Private-K April 23 2020 10: 55 New
      -2
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      But the "boomerangs", "kurgans" can be practically used, throwing special forces along the highways under fire!

      It is much more interesting in practice to test the ARMS of military vehicles. Especially - the new automatic low-ballistic gun (compare the results with the 100 -oy 2A70). hi
      Shoot nearby with 30-mm shells with trajectory detonation in order to show and finally dispel all myths about the allegedly high efficiency of this class of ammunition. wassat hi
  • Keeping
    Keeping April 23 2020 07: 27 New
    0
    We are waiting for news about the trials of Poseidon in Syria ...
    1. novel66
      novel66 April 23 2020 08: 48 New
      +2
      our shore there ... better not
      1. The leader of the Redskins
        The leader of the Redskins April 23 2020 08: 51 New
        +3
        From the series "bomb Voronezh"?)) laughing
        1. novel66
          novel66 April 23 2020 08: 52 New
          +2
          from the series "to spite my grandmother, I will frostbite my finger" lol
  • Pashhenko Nikolay
    Pashhenko Nikolay April 23 2020 07: 28 New
    +6
    The fact that high-ranking officials do not throw words in the wind is still a pearl. In my opinion, all kinds of stuffing, not confirmed by anything, is their modern style of work.
  • demo
    demo April 23 2020 07: 31 New
    +9
    It is clear that Denis Mansurov, as a high-level government official, will not just throw words into the wind.

    Our officials, from the very top to the very "bottom", are already so masterful in "throwing" empty promises that one is even surprised.
    Most likely, this statement is just a throw in the information field to study "consumer demand".
    There is no other thought.
    1. Uncle Vanya Susanin
      Uncle Vanya Susanin April 23 2020 09: 46 New
      +1
      We have a new minister appeared, or I don’t know something, or is it a banal typo in the article?
      1. demo
        demo April 23 2020 12: 54 New
        +1
        For me, that Mansurov, that Manturov - one hell.
        Bitter. Consequently, aimless.
  • Ponchik78
    Ponchik78 April 23 2020 07: 35 New
    +1
    The capabilities of modern intelligence did not prevent the Americans from slipping into the Russian base at Khmeinim itself, and not just from the transfer of several tanks.
  • Keeping
    Keeping April 23 2020 07: 36 New
    -4
    With such oil prices, next year they will go under the hammer and Kurganets and Armata and Su-57 and Poseidon and even Kuznetsova will be sold. Draw parallels?
    1. Harry.km
      Harry.km April 23 2020 15: 44 New
      +2
      Quote: Keeping
      With such oil prices,

      Oil has been trading in negative territory for a month now, so the Armats, Kurganians and Poseidons went to Syria. The refrigerator then began to beat the TV ... And then the production volume, after a loud, commercial victory over the Saudis, will have to be reduced. So all the "tests" are still ahead.
  • Crystal of Truth
    Crystal of Truth April 23 2020 07: 50 New
    +3
    PR he and in Syria PR
  • Keeping
    Keeping April 23 2020 07: 58 New
    +6
    By the way, we learned about the tests of the Shell in Syria from the numerous videos from our Israeli and Turkish partners ...
  • bar
    bar April 23 2020 08: 09 New
    +3
    Why is this happening? Why do rumors continue to multiply?

    Normal PR company, nothing special. The parade, as a way to remind potential buyers of a new technology, is being postponed, and Manturov needs orders.
  • Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U April 23 2020 08: 17 New
    0
    Throw a new, fairly expensive and secret tank in a civilian crew into battle?

    There was something similar in the Finnish War. And now, maintenance of equipment during testing and delivery to conduct civilian specialists is not a novelty. But it’s unusual to hear from the Minister of Industry, yes.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA April 23 2020 11: 46 New
      +4
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      There was something similar in the Finnish War.

      It was. Experimental heavy tanks went into battle with mixed, army-factory crews at the Special Forces Fleet:
      The battle was tested by factory testers, for which a special permit was obtained from Moscow. The workers selected for this purpose underwent special training at LBTKUKS in driving cars, training in gunfire and other skills necessary in battle. The commander of the QMS crew was appointed senior lieutenant Petin, assistant commander-sergeant Mogilchenko, gunner-radio operator and gunner - two Red Army men. In addition, the crew included three workers of the Kirov plant: the driver V. Ignatiev, the mechanic A. Kunitsyn, and the transmission man A. Teterev.
      The T-100 crew consisted of servicemen of the 20th heavy tank brigade: commander Lieutenant M. Astakhov, gunners Artamonov, Kozlov, radio operator Smirnov and workers of the plant number 185 named after Kirov - driver A. Plyukhin, spare driver V. Drozhzhin and minder V. Kaplanov.
  • aszzz888
    aszzz888 April 23 2020 08: 24 New
    -5
    Doubt creeps in from only one. The capabilities of modern intelligence allow the same Americans to control all deliveries to Russian bases.
    What are you talking about, author ?! The merikatos slipped the beginning of OUR PRESENCE in Syria, and the supply of most of the weapons. And taking into account modern types of camouflage, zasherah a dozen tanks is not a big deal.
    1. domokl
      April 23 2020 09: 18 New
      +3
      Quote: aszzz888
      The merikatos slid the start of OUR PRESENCE in Syria, and the supply of most weapons

      Well, yes ... Somehow everything is unexpected for them. We know what they are doing, and they poor thing do not know. Maybe send them binoculars so that they can be screwed to their camera lenses with their companions ...
  • svp67
    svp67 April 23 2020 08: 33 New
    -1
    Our large landing ships simply cannot take on board any more. 10-13 tanks is the maximum, and considering the weight of the "Armat", 10 is not more.
    With the mass, that's just all the rules, but with the dimensions ... here with the "Armata" in the hold, the large landing craft may have problems ...
    Yes, and "Boomerang" with "Kurganets" would be quite good to run in there, especially the first one, there are many tasks just for it ...
    1. domokl
      April 23 2020 09: 25 New
      +5
      Quote: svp67
      Yes, and "Boomerang" with "Kurganets" would be quite good to run in there, especially the first one, there are many tasks just for it.

      Sergey, and what is the difference between the conditions at our Armenian military base or at the Tajik base from Syria? You can test the chassis and the impact of climate on cars there. A weapon? What is the difference between shooting at a firing range from shooting in battle? Then the question is, is it worth sending civilians to war to test armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles?
      But to show the most militant nomads that armored personnel carriers are better than camels.
      I think most colleagues see both machines as the end result of their work. It seems to me that they have already moved to the base models for the production of entire families of cars .. Here from this point of view there is something to think about
      1. svp67
        svp67 April 23 2020 10: 02 New
        -2
        Quote: domokl
        Sergey, and what is the difference between the conditions at our Armenian military base or at the Tajik base from Syria?

        Each area is different. It's just that in Syria, our armored cars are driven into the tail and the mane, every day on patrol, that's where a dozen "Boomers" could be run in. Heat, sand, high humidity ... races on asphalt roads with Americans, immediately turning into races in mud ... No, now Syria is an excellent training ground, which of course does not exclude the need to test this technique in Tajikistan and Armenia
        Quote: domokl
        Then the question is, is it worth sending civilians to war to test armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles?
        Civilian specialists are already there, but of course it is better to carry out these tests within the military ... that is, with the transfer of equipment to the "very caring and skillful" "golden" hands of our soldiers
      2. Actor
        Actor April 23 2020 14: 42 New
        +1
        Advertising and PR. equipment that rolled in the rear. and in the "front line" two situations for PR.
  • Roman123567
    Roman123567 April 23 2020 09: 18 New
    +2
    It is necessary to warm up interest in this car with potential buyers.

    Oh, this week we’ve been too busy .. (and not only us)
    We can assume that Manturov worked his piece of bread ..
  • Chaldon48
    Chaldon48 April 23 2020 10: 29 New
    +2
    Rumors have remained rumors, where is the turn of buyers begging to sell them a new product?
  • Zhenya Khazarsky
    Zhenya Khazarsky April 23 2020 10: 43 New
    +1
    Dear author, I propose to correct Mansurov to ManTurov in the fifth and seventh paragraphs.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Vyacheslav34
    Vyacheslav34 April 23 2020 14: 17 New
    0
    Especially Boomerang, the Turks will confuse him with his Arm ...
  • bars1
    bars1 April 23 2020 18: 52 New
    0
    Why do many deny that the T-14 was directly involved in the battles and why they say that the crew must be civilian specialists?
  • Kelwin
    Kelwin April 23 2020 23: 54 New
    -1
    Strange questions, why this one, and why so ... Well, I'm sorry, the authoritative community of tyrnetic ants forgot to report on the plans of the Moscow Region, and Manturov personally does not follow the language - this is a mess. Sit already in self-isolation and wash your hands more often ...
  • fyvaprold
    fyvaprold April 24 2020 09: 34 New
    0
    Wonderful. When to expect an article from "grandfather Mazai", or whatever it is? laughing laughing laughing
  • k5071240
    k5071240 April 24 2020 12: 24 New
    0
    The most boring article. The author mixed everything in a heap. I remembered everything and the coronavirus and NATO sailed.
  • avia12005
    avia12005 April 26 2020 19: 10 New
    0
    It's good that at least Manturov did not tell how he personally cut through the desert in the "Armata" ...
  • Brigadier
    Brigadier April 27 2020 00: 43 New
    -1
    " The appearance of "Armata" would have been noticed even during loading and transportation. “We know and keep silent” is not an American principle. And the US military is silent. NATO is silent. "

    If the United States is silent, NATO is silent, and our latest secret developments are loaded for "field tests "to a distant country where there is no absolute opportunity to provide them REMAINING to the enemy ...
    Yes, and for some reason, to a country whose climate, well, absolutely does not coincide with the climate at the European theater of operations, but is very close geographically to Turkey, a NATO member ...

    Well, it happened ... for some reason ... Someone decided for some reason ...
    But the United States and NATO are silent and are clearly waiting for something ...

    After all, there is war, but in war everything happens. Is not it?
    And in war, it is sometimes quite possible, so to speak, to accidentally (purely hypothetical) capture the secret technology by the enemy ...
    This is a war. But in war everything happens, including the capture of enemy equipment.

    It happens that secret weapons are delivered to the enemy whole and intact!
    And sometimes also with technical documentation inside ... it turned out there exclusively, so to speak, to assist the crew in operating new secret equipment ...
    Exclusively just for this and for nothing else! laughing

    And in a year - another in America will have its own "Armata" ... request recourse sad

    And someone from the Russian leadership ... hmm .. bureaucracy (I do not hint at anyone, a purely hypothetical assumption winked ) suddenly, in an incomprehensible way, after this "business trip of the latest technology", foreign accounts may well become heavier ... This is life ...
    Same life as the package our most advanced secret technology to a foreign warring country ...