Military Review

NI on India’s decision on Su-57: It’s one thing to sketch a plane on paper, the other is to build and make it fly

120

The American magazine The National Interest published material in which the author tries to analyze the issue of India’s refusal to acquire Russian Su-57 fighters. The author writes: “So why did India abandon the Russian Su-57? According to representatives of the Indian Air Force, it is very expensive, poorly designed, and also has unreliable engines. Is it true?"


The author at the very beginning of the material makes a certain mistake. After all, the Indian Air Force did not abandon the Su-57, but from joint work on the FGFA program. It was precisely the unwillingness of further joint work with Russia on the new generation fighter program that the Indian authorities announced. The talk of putting Su-57 to India so far has not (officially) gone. The main reason is that the fifth-generation fighter Su-57 has not yet been delivered to the Russian Aerospace Forces.

But in the article, the author of NI still mentions the program of Russian-Indian cooperation. In the article he writes:

The situation with the Su-57 could have turned out differently. At the beginning of 2018, India, together with Russia, developed an invisible fighter, providing cash, which gave commercial viability to a problematic project. But New Delhi rejected the joint development agreement in April 2018.

According to the author of the article, Indian complaints revealed the following problem: "it is one thing to sketch an improved military aircraft on paper, and it is quite another to build and make it fly."

The author claims that India was planning to buy 144 stealth fighters. But the way the work was carried out as part of the program did not satisfy her. Now India, as you know, is trying to create a 5th generation airplane on its own.

And in the opinion of the author of another publication, Business Standard, India’s refusal of a joint program with the Russian Federation was politically motivated. And in India itself, statements about this were made that the agreements with France on the purchase of Rafale played a decisive role. Opposition circles have called the deal with France a "trail of corruption." The reason for this version was the excessively high cost of the contract for French-made fighters.
Photos used:
company "Sukhoi"
120 comments
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  1. The comment was deleted.
  2. Azazelo
    Azazelo April 22 2020 17: 58 New
    +1
    It is one thing to copy the Soviet Yak with vert. take-off, another thing is to make this shit fly .... budget loot mastered, now it remains to make the F35 combat unit. Do not think that Russia does not make any illusions about the lack of ability of f 35 for something, but it also knows about all the chips in a mediocre way ..
    1. A. Privalov
      A. Privalov April 22 2020 18: 13 New
      +2
      Quote: Azazelo
      It is one thing to copy the Soviet Yak with vert. take-off, another thing is to make this shit fly .... budget loot mastered, now it remains to make the F35 combat unit. Do not think that Russia does not make any illusions about the lack of ability of f 35 for something, but it also knows about all the chips in a mediocre way ..

      It is possible that he is mediocre and even shit. However, here it is, both in metal, and in flight, and in the armies of the world. 500 pieces, 1000 pilots. 250 hours in the air.
      1. Prisoner
        Prisoner April 22 2020 18: 21 New
        +6
        Well, why the hell? What would I say, is it in metal? Is the pleasure too expensive for the possibility of such statements? A mediocre apparatus is actually not a mediocre cheapening of the lives of pilots. Although the corporation cuts loot, it feeds lobbyists and senior army officials and they do not care.
        1. A. Privalov
          A. Privalov April 22 2020 18: 42 New
          0
          Quote: Captive
          Well, why the hell? What would I say, is it in metal? Is the pleasure too expensive for the possibility of such statements? A mediocre apparatus is actually not a mediocre cheapening of the lives of pilots. Although the corporation cuts loot, it feeds lobbyists and senior army officials and they do not care.

          And dear, and mediocre, and corporations cut loot, and feed the wrong ones, and they do not care - everything is bad. You're right. But the fighter has been in full-fledged serial production for five years.
          1. Lipchanin
            Lipchanin April 22 2020 19: 18 New
            +1
            Quote: A. Privalov
            But the fighter has been in full-fledged serial production for five years.

            Yes, at least 25 if they forbid the NATO to buy others.
            Give them a free choice and the release of fu will be significantly reduced
            1. SovAr238A
              SovAr238A April 22 2020 19: 54 New
              0
              Quote: Lipchanin
              Quote: A. Privalov
              But the fighter has been in full-fledged serial production for five years.

              Yes, at least 25 if they forbid the NATO to buy others.
              Give them a free choice and the release of fu will be significantly reduced


              Tell us all again.
              why should NATO buy some other abstract planes?
              NATO perfectly buys Its Typhoons, Its Rafali,
              Have you ever looked at the quantitative composition of the Air Forces of the NATO countries in Europe before you carry your words to the masses?
              There are European aircraft, much more than American ...

              And what kind of unfree choice are we talking about?

              Do you think about Russian planes?

              Which Russian equipment will buy knowing that the concept of technical support for spare parts in the Russian aviation industry is absent in principle ...
              This shows the experience of many operators from Soviet times.
              The plane was sold, but consumables and spare parts for it were never on time.

              Okay, let's move on.
              NATO needs only fuselages.
              They should have their own engines, their own avionics, their own rockets ...

              Otherwise, why should they, i.e. NATO, to have weapons, a likely adversary who, in the event of a BP, will take and will not take off.

              Do you agree to buy Typhoons or Rafali? or Chinese FC?
              I am sure that no, so why should they buy ours if the real cost of the Su-35S is already under $ 100 million ...
              1. Lipchanin
                Lipchanin April 22 2020 20: 19 New
                -7
                Quote: SovAr238A
                Tell us all again.

                And a lot of you have asked a question on whose behalf?
                All authority available?
                NATO perfectly buys Its Typhoons, Its Rafali,

                Absolutely in the hole, and I'm talking about these others.
                But the hegemon makes them buy their fu, which are much more expensive in all respects
                Do you think about Russian planes?

                A good gift to read other people's thoughts, but it is not available to you
                Airplanes, but air defense has already been bought by one country.
                And this is just the beginning. Remind me what tantrum behind the puddle still goes?
                Which Russian equipment will buy knowing that the concept of technical support for spare parts in the Russian aviation industry is absent in principle ...

                Well, where did I write about our technology?
                NATO needs only fuselages.
                They should have their own engines, their own avionics, their own rockets ...

                Are you talking about all NATO members?
                Do you agree to buy Typhoons or Rafali? or Chinese FC?
                \
                No, we have ours
                Counterquestion. If they have their own, then why do they buy fu?
                if the real cost of the Su-35S is already under $ 100 million ...

                And the real value of fu how much?
                1. SovAr238A
                  SovAr238A April 22 2020 20: 43 New
                  +5
                  Quote: Lipchanin

                  Counterquestion. If they have their own, then why do they buy fu?
                  if the real cost of the Su-35S is already under $ 100 million ...

                  And the real value of fu how much?


                  They have a freedom of choice.
                  Germany, Italy, France, Great Britain, Spain, Autria - Typhoons bought it.
                  France - Rafale.
                  Hungary, Czech Republic - Influenza.
                  Belgium, Norway, Holland, Poland, Turkey (possibly) - F-35 ..

                  Once again I ask, have you ever looked at directories?
                  See which aircraft are in service with the Italian Air Force for example. All planes.
                  Just carry a rabid lie - which is really rabid. and has nothing to do with reality.
            2. Grigory_45
              Grigory_45 April 22 2020 21: 11 New
              +2
              Quote: Lipchanin
              Yes, at least 25, if they forbid NATO to buy others

              no one forbids buying other planes, and doesn’t impose by force of F-35.
              Germany refused (it is not yet clear which plane Berlin will stop on). Canada refused (bought the Hornets). Turkey has been vetoed supplies (although it has been a member of the JSF program from the start)
            3. Alexander mosin
              Alexander mosin April 24 2020 01: 48 New
              -2
              Quote: Lipchanin
              if they forbid NATO to buy others.

              Why did you get this? You probably don’t know that even the closest US allies organize tenders where both Americans and French and Swedes and Germans participate, for example, in Switzerland recently there were already 8 different aircraft to choose from, from Grippen to F-35 and they were all checked as they should , the competition is fierce. Moreover, tenders of any Hindus, Arabs and Asians, if the Russian Federation had something to offer, they could steer the situation and no State Department would be in the way. But without AFAR and modern missiles there is nothing to catch. At the moment, the F-35 is the most advanced combat aircraft at the moment, designed to operate the next 40 years at least, with the possibility of modernization and it has a long line in the real world.
          2. Prisoner
            Prisoner April 22 2020 19: 30 New
            -6
            And besides this unit can boast of something else? Although yes, maybe. This is the cost and the cost of service. laughing Expensive serial ... it. There is reason for pride. laughing
            1. SovAr238A
              SovAr238A April 22 2020 19: 58 New
              -9
              Quote: Captive
              And besides this unit can boast of something else? Although yes, maybe. This is the cost and the cost of service. laughing Expensive serial ... it. There is reason for pride. laughing


              And what is the cost of maintenance?
              Fuel as the main expenses - at world exchange prices.
              Su-35S is not much cheaper than F-22. Just see the latest orders.
              And not the prices of 2012.
              Salaries of pilots and service staff, but less directly.
              But here the indirect content, all kinds of surcharges there, retirement pensions, housing certificates and much more - practically equalizes.
              The cost of maintaining airfields and other things is no less, if not more.

              Learn to look at everything in the complex.
              1. Prisoner
                Prisoner April 22 2020 21: 14 New
                +1
                Can you imagine comparative numbers? Learn not to be unfounded. hi
                1. SovAr238A
                  SovAr238A April 22 2020 21: 32 New
                  -2
                  Quote: Captive
                  Can you imagine comparative numbers? Learn not to be unfounded. hi


                  Didn’t you try to search for information?
                  Find the number of flying hours of pilots from different countries ...
                  Find the average fuel consumption figure.
                  Find government contracts for the supply of fuel from us and from them.
                  find out the cost of fuel.
                  Count the numbers.

                  Take your head in real business ..

                  Or should you serve everything on a silver platter?

                  But you unfoundedly accuse them that they have more.

                  So get down to business. prove your words with real numbers.
                  1. Prisoner
                    Prisoner April 22 2020 22: 37 New
                    +2
                    Well, pretend to be a connoisseur. So I wanted to fill the gaps in knowledge, but alas. We are such connoisseurs on a wagon and a small cart. Rafale UNDERSTAND and others. It's just that against these companies it is more expensive. It is not enough one pin-do-sovsky bait to stay in power, you need support and national corporations. Therefore, you have to please both yours and mattresses. The Germans, the British, the French are holding on for now. While. But over time, either the mattresses will be chased with their obsessive "service" or their planes and their builders will be stolen. ps And do not "poke", please. Be so kind.
                  2. Prisoner
                    Prisoner April 22 2020 23: 17 New
                    +5
                    “The fact that in the United States almost half of the F-35 does not fly (30% in general, and the remaining somewhere 20% are of limited combat capability) is already well known, but why should their“ allies ”have everything differently?
                    Everything is exactly the same - half of the "foreign" F-35s in all sorts of great Holland and Britain are also "at the fence". One of the reasons is the lack of spare parts. Well, was it really impossible to predict this? The Pentagon admitted that a significant part of the already supplied spare parts ... no longer fit! "(C) laughing Look how gorgeous the Internet is. There, the pilots also complain that this "vaunted" device threatens their young lives. laughing
          3. Parsec
            Parsec April 22 2020 20: 12 New
            +8
            Lockheed F-104G - both real-world and dozens of world records, was produced by thousands, and was in service with almost all of NATO. And the Germans lost up to a third of the park, and the investigation, like the Japanese. Corruption.
        2. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh April 22 2020 21: 00 New
          +6
          It is difficult to compare the F-35 with the magnificent Russian S-30, Su-35 and Su-57.
          It is possible that Su- can defeat any of the aircraft of NATO countries.
          But you can compare the F-35 with American military aircraft.
          1) Based on the experience of using the F-35 in the Israeli Air Force, they came to the conclusion that he
          equivalent to two F-16s in combat effectiveness in strike missions.
          2) Norwegian pilots operating the F-16 and F-35 reported that
          The F-35 is superior to the F-16 in close combat.
          3) American pilots, retrained from the F-15 Eagle to the F-35, together wrote in
          reports that they would not like to return to their previous planes.
          1. NN52
            NN52 April 22 2020 22: 16 New
            +8
            voyaka uh (Alexey)
            If it doesn’t complicate, then you can lay out the links to these statements? for each item separately?
            Thank you.
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh April 22 2020 23: 38 New
              -6
              I'll add more. The US Air Force has an "aggressor squadron". Its pilots are the best aces, usually of the "instructor" class. Aircraft: F-15, F-16, F-14, Kfir. For training combat pilots in close combat, how to respond to "ambushes", all kinds of tactical tricks.
              So, recently, its commander said with annoyance: "we need to change planes."
              Fights with the F-35 does not work. I can’t enter the melee and demonstrate the skill of aces.
              1. Cyril G ...
                Cyril G ... April 22 2020 23: 46 New
                0
                Bullshit. Aggressors all the time junking all the latest products, often without using RES from the word at all. What has changed fundamentally?
                1. voyaka uh
                  voyaka uh April 23 2020 00: 36 New
                  +3
                  "Aggressors used to fight all the new items all the time" ////
                  ----
                  Dragged, and how! On the Kfirs of the third generation shot down the F-15. Bison fellow
                  But they can’t bring down the Su-35 - it’s super maneuverable. But Su-57, and even more so not to bring down -
                  he is super maneuverable, and also a stealth in addition.
            2. shahor
              shahor April 23 2020 17: 34 New
              +1
              Quote: NN52
              then you can lay out links to these statements?

              I will not say for the Israeli estimates, but I read the article by the Norwegian pilot. On The Aviationist. This Norwegian is not a simple pilot. Having flown a bunch of hours over F-16 over the northern seas, in the USA he graduated from the school of marine test pilots. Received qualification as an instructor. Higher for US pilots. Retrained on the F-35. At the time of writing, he worked in the USA as an instructor on the F-35. The article is complex, with numerous tactical schemes. By plane. In his opinion, the F-35 is better than the F-16 in close combat, in terms of acceleration dynamics and maneuverability. By visibility, there are problems, the back is interfering. There are a lot of indicators. In a nutshell, his rating is a very good plane. The potential is huge. Even at the expense of only software. Downloading new updates leads to the fact that the aircraft version 16 is much weaker than version 19. The potential will only grow. This is not me - this is a Norwegian writes.
              1. Cyril G ...
                Cyril G ... April 23 2020 18: 44 New
                +1
                But there are many such articles, and there is a very concrete explanation for this. The ordering is called.
                1. shahor
                  shahor April 23 2020 22: 55 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Cyril G ...
                  The ordering is called.

                  No. The resource will be more serious IN and the article is serious. There, the author writes more about training battles, analyzes their tactics, applies many schemes. He writes about the technical merits of the f-35 insofar as. It’s not necessary to think that if someone else’s opinion is not corrected for you, this is definitely an order.
              2. NN52
                NN52 April 23 2020 19: 15 New
                +2
                shahor (nicholas)

                Yes stick trees ... give a link ... I read it myself ..
                And then you and the warrior will only retell, in your own words ... already got it.
                Links and requested, nothing more.
                1. shahor
                  shahor April 23 2020 22: 59 New
                  +1
                  Quote: NN52
                  Links and requested, nothing more.
                  Reply

                  Dial The Aviocionist. An article there hung for a very long time on the first page. I did not know that she would be of interest to you. The last time I saw her was in early March.
                  1. 3danimal
                    3danimal April 29 2020 09: 30 New
                    0
                    You see, the corresponding resources and TV “drove” into the minds of many the idea that the F-35 is absolutely non-maneuverable (9g for 35A - non-maneuverable?) Ugly and generally once the Serbs shot down the F-117 (for 800 successful flights), then the whole “your stealth "Does not work (however, Russian designers for some reason tend to use these technologies).
                    Most people find it easier to take ready-made images “on faith” than to be interested in the topic and seek information. And to convince by arguments of logic and data it turns out not all.
                2. Timeout
                  Timeout April 25 2020 03: 22 New
                  0
                  Quote: NN52
                  Yes stick trees ... give a link ... I read it myself.

                  Colleague, he will not give you a link, for English itself knows how a pig understands oranges. Article 2016 in the news archive, only three schemes and no special praises.
                  https://theaviationist.com/2016/03/01/heres-what-ive-learned-so-far-dogfighting-in-the-f-35-a-jsf-pilot-first-hand-account/
                  Almost the same on VO https://topwar.ru/117745-posmotri-norvezhskiy-as-oprovergnul-mif-o-nepovorotlivosti-f-35a.html
          2. Prisoner
            Prisoner April 22 2020 22: 58 New
            -1
            You wouldn’t write yet. Bonuses they are such bonuses.
          3. Private-K
            Private-K April 23 2020 07: 45 New
            0
            Quote: voyaka uh
            1) Based on the experience of using the F-35 in the Israeli Air Force, they came to the conclusion that he
            equivalent to two F-16s in combat effectiveness in strike missions.
            2) Norwegian pilots operating the F-16 and F-35 reported that
            The F-35 is superior to the F-16 in close combat.
            3) American pilots, retrained from the F-15 Eagle to the F-35, together wrote in
            reports that they would not like to return to their previous planes.


            1) That's exactly what is in the drums. And even then the dimensions of the bomb bay are smaller than necessary.
            Those. Fu35 not multifunctional aircraft. On him impossible gain superiority in air battles with fighters of the Su35 / Rafal / Typhoon level; it will bring down packs of the most promising Su57 fighter in the world. But the fact of the matter is that the Fu35 was positioned as a replacement for everything and everything. And this turned out to be wrong. That is the point.
            2) Well, F16 was a very mediocre air fighter - the main rate in the air. battles the Americans did on the F15. And when the F16 was overweight in subsequent "blocks", its real (and not false advertising) LTHs sagged even more. And, yes - the Norwegians in military affairs, of course, are more authoritative than the Danes, but they do not reach the first league.
            3) American pilots are disciplined guys and obey (sign what their superiors say) and obey censorship laws (they will not express their claims openly, tea is not the 1970s).

            We have as a fact: the United States does not have a promising fighter of air combat.
            But they can do it with a timely decision and proper management - and there are already doubts about it.
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh April 23 2020 09: 07 New
              +2
              You see how good it is: I am calm for the F-35, you are calm for the Su-57.
              All of each other will be "piled up". In the meantime: "For peace!" drinks
              1. Private-K
                Private-K April 23 2020 10: 37 New
                +1
                So things are so dumb in the world of calm for Fu35.
                None of Canada.
                None of Australia.
                Neither in Germany.
                In Britain, unhappy; but forced.
                Turkey is giving birth ... Just a choice, now, is not great.
                And in Israel, for a year and a half or two, they understood and made the final conclusion about the inability of Fu35go ​​to a full-fledged air battle. They were interested in the new F15 with special specifications (not the AMRAAM rocket carrier that is advertised) ... Well, what is the replacement for the F-15 in air combat in the Israeli Air Force? And nothing turns out. It's not Rafali to buy ... One hope that Fu35 will not have such opponents. It was designed for such a situation ... And how it developed. God Factor (tm)
                1. voyaka uh
                  voyaka uh April 23 2020 11: 43 New
                  +1
                  Our F-15s are very, very old. So far, write them off and replace them with new ones.
                  And 100 F-16s are replaced by 50 pieces of F-35s.
                  As for the air battles ... There were training battles of the American F-22 and
                  Norwegian F-35. Fifth vs. Fifth. am laughing The results are classified.
                  But there are some indirect reasons to assume that
                  high-speed and super-maneuverable Raptors failed to defeat
                  Penguins wink
        3. Zefr
          Zefr April 23 2020 02: 33 New
          +2
          Is the pleasure too expensive for the possibility of such statements? A mediocre apparatus is actually not a mediocre cheapening of the lives of pilots.

          It’s strange. But about the T-34 and the Panther for some reason, they say exactly the opposite (and about the T-90 and Abrams). Like, well, yes, this is not the pinnacle of technology, but we have a lot of them (it was). And this is better than good, but not enough.
          Penguin flies, they are in all strategic directions, how to catch them when the time comes?
        4. Vol4ara
          Vol4ara April 23 2020 09: 26 New
          +1
          Quote: Captive
          Well, why the hell? What would I say, is it in metal? Is the pleasure too expensive for the possibility of such statements? A mediocre apparatus is actually not a mediocre cheapening of the lives of pilots. Although the corporation cuts loot, it feeds lobbyists and senior army officials and they do not care.

          There is an opinion that stories about American corruption, lobbyists and loot are excuses so that there is no shame, such a self-deception
          1. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... April 23 2020 18: 47 New
            0
            This is just the reality and our thieves, and of course there are such, and we have miracles especially in such a less useful form of the armed forces as VeMeF, these are just children against the background of the Americans.
      2. il-z
        il-z April 22 2020 18: 52 New
        +1
        It is possible that he is mediocre and even shit. However, here it is, both in metal, and in flight, and in the armies of the world. 500 pieces, 1000 pilots. 250 hours in the air.

        Comparable to the F-35, the Su-30 and Su-35 are also long in metal, in flight, and in the armies of the world (while they are not mediocre and not shit). Maybe a little inaccurate, but I think more than 500 aircraft, more than 700 pilots and more than 250 hours in the air. And the Su-000 is the next step, and no one has yet made a comparable step. We are not at the age to convince each other, I think everyone will remain at his own. Each army in the world has its own problems and shortcomings, but no matter what, I am calm and proud both for our army and for the pilots and VKS, including what I wish you.
      3. Lipchanin
        Lipchanin April 22 2020 19: 16 New
        -7
        Quote: A. Privalov
        about. However, here it is, both in metal, and in flight, and in the armies of the world. 500 pieces, 1000 pilots. 250 hours in the air.

        "Even a hare can be taught to light matches if you beat it every day" A. P. Chekhov
        Even this mediocrity can be pulled in if partners on the ground twist their hands.
        Sanctions are waved left and right. And by "friends" in the block and by enemies.
        1. SovAr238A
          SovAr238A April 22 2020 20: 00 New
          +2
          Quote: Lipchanin
          Quote: A. Privalov
          about. However, here it is, both in metal, and in flight, and in the armies of the world. 500 pieces, 1000 pilots. 250 hours in the air.

          "Even a hare can be taught to light matches if you beat it every day" A. P. Chekhov
          Even this mediocrity can be pulled in if partners on the ground twist their hands.
          Sanctions are waved left and right. And by "friends" in the block and by enemies.


          Once again, look at least once on the high-ranking staff of the NATO air forces.

          For you, this will be a break in the template.
          Your training manual will just turn out to be a lie if you really look all the way to the end ...
          1. Lipchanin
            Lipchanin April 22 2020 20: 28 New
            -6
            Quote: SovAr238A
            Your training manual,

            You saw her. Do you know for sure that I have it? Responsible for your words?
            Prove !!!
            If you can’t prove that I have a training manual there, then you’re not a man.
            And for such things they beat hard and a lot.
            There are many more words. It's a pity to spend time on blablabol
            Prove that I have a training manual and I will apologize and leave VO.
            WAITING FOR EVIDENCE.
            Or do you only know how to hide behind other people's backs? "
            Tell us all again.

            If you can't prove it, then you will apologize to "all of us"?
            1. SovAr238A
              SovAr238A April 22 2020 20: 34 New
              0
              Quote: Lipchanin
              Quote: SovAr238A
              Your training manual,

              You saw her. Do you know for sure that I have it? Responsible for your words?
              Prove !!!
              If you can’t prove that I have a training manual there, then you’re not a man.
              And for such things they beat hard and a lot.
              There are many more words. It's a pity to spend time on blablabol
              Prove that I have a training manual and I will apologize and leave VO.
              WAITING FOR EVIDENCE.
              Or do you only know how to hide behind other people's backs? "
              Tell us all again.

              If you can't prove it, then you will apologize to "all of us"?


              Take it easy, scribbler on a military site that knows nothing about military topics ...

              And those who write so much are complete ignoramuses.

              Here is all your middle name ..

              Otherwise
              I apologize for the fact that you, not knowing the number of troops of our enemy’s Air Force, are asserting sanctions of some kind, the dominance of American aviation.

              Who told you this, if facts, real facts, say otherwise?

              Who are you after this, except as a corrupt scribbler?

              Because they gave you the task, and you work it out ...

              Regardless of reality.
              Which are any reasonable and interested in military subjects people. just must first look, comprehend, and only then write ...

              You know nothing, but surely writes = sh ...

              do not want to apologize to those. who worked for many years in the military commissariat and for whom military statistics is the interest of 40 years of life?

              No?
              1. Lipchanin
                Lipchanin April 22 2020 21: 02 New
                -5
                Proof of.
                do not want to apologize to those. who worked for many years in the military commissariat and for whom military statistics is the interest of 40 years of life?

                It does not give you the right to libel
                I apologize for the fact that you, not knowing the number of troops of our enemy’s Air Force, are asserting sanctions of some kind, the dominance of American aviation.

                I personally offended you?
                PROOF OF
                1. SovAr238A
                  SovAr238A April 22 2020 21: 09 New
                  +3
                  Quote: Lipchanin
                  Proof of.
                  do not want to apologize to those. who worked for many years in the military commissariat and for whom military statistics is the interest of 40 years of life?

                  It does not give you the right to libel
                  I apologize for the fact that you, not knowing the number of troops of our enemy’s Air Force, are asserting sanctions of some kind, the dominance of American aviation.

                  I personally offended you?
                  PROOF OF


                  Do not shout, not at home.
                  Entries in capital letters on the Internet are recognized as screaming and hysteria ...


                  You first wrote about:
                  Even this mediocrity can be pulled in if partners on the ground twist their hands.
                  Sanctions are waved left and right. And by "friends" in the block and by enemies.


                  Yes, at least 25 if they forbid the NATO to buy others.
                  Give them a free choice and the release of fu will be significantly reduced


                  I proved to you that you are wrong.
                  He showed the country, then you can see the quantitative composition of the Air Force yourself.

                  I proved it to you.

                  And you are hysterical ...
                  Because you have a pattern gap.
                  And the templates are usually those who use manuals.
                  And he does not know how to think with his own head.

                  And yes.
                  Offended.

                  5-8 years ago, on this site there was not a single like you.
                  There were people here. who were really interested in military affairs.
                  Where really discussed the technique of the enemy.

                  And then people like you came.
                  Cap-bearers and hat-takers.
                  How did they come on command.
                  Many of you and your name are legion.
                  1. Lipchanin
                    Lipchanin April 22 2020 21: 33 New
                    -1
                    Quote: SovAr238A
                    I proved to you that you are wrong.

                    You have not proved that I write in a training manual.
                    By this you insulted me
                    5-8 years ago, on this site there was not a single like you.

                    Another FALSE !!
                    I have been on the site since 2012.
                    Changed several nicknames.
                    I always earned a lot of warnings because I always fought with BLABABOLOV like you
                    The gut is thin for its answer these words?
                    Your training manual, just be a lie

                    He poured so much water, but did not bring evidence
                    But everything fell on me
                    That's what America is doing, which produces the fu-35
                    A man must answer for his words, unless of course he wears a skirt
                    Evidence that I use someone’s training manual
                    By the way, whose training manual? Who wrote?
                    Where is the proof?
                    1. Lipchanin
                      Lipchanin April 22 2020 21: 56 New
                      -1
                      Everything is clear with you
                      Cap-bearers and hat-takers.
                      How did you come on command

                      And came the stillabs like you
                      1. Vladimir Rostovsky
                        Vladimir Rostovsky April 23 2020 06: 56 New
                        -1
                        Why are these screams Lipchanin? It is enough to go to your comments and read them, and it immediately becomes clear that you do not understand anything, but everywhere you insert your "deep thoughts" - at the salary, or sick, I simply do not see other options.
            2. The comment was deleted.
          2. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... April 22 2020 21: 36 New
            +1
            I looked and I see that for the most part the NATs twisted their paws and sucked in the Penguin. Well, except the Germans, they have a special question.
          3. Prisoner
            Prisoner April 22 2020 23: 00 New
            -2
            What did you decide to try on manuals? Is yours steeper, but true? laughing
      4. businessv
        businessv April 22 2020 20: 31 New
        0
        Quote: A. Privalov
        It's possible he's mediocre and even shit. (F-35)

        But the production is really impressive! It’s just space in comparison with ours, although I’m very glad that we even have it!
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... April 23 2020 18: 51 New
          0
          Count the release of the last 6 years with us along with export (you compared it with the general release of the USA) and you will be pleasantly surprised, so there is no need for space. And then remember that our military budget is an order of magnitude smaller. So the right is not worth it.
          1. businessv
            businessv April 23 2020 22: 35 New
            -1
            Quote: Cyril G ...
            And then remember that our military budget is an order of magnitude smaller. So the right is not worth it.

            I'm talking about robotic manufacturing facilities, colleague! Those. about Thomas, and you tell me about Yeryoma!
            1. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... April 23 2020 23: 15 New
              0
              I do not see there "space" at close range ...
              1. businessv
                businessv April 23 2020 23: 22 New
                0
                Quote: Cyril G ...
                I do not see there "space" at close range ...

                Look bad! Take a look at our production facilities and compare with this video! I don’t understand why you are arguing where there is nothing to argue about ?! Answer one question: how many SU-35 can we produce in one week? Read to start https://topwar.ru/167884-sohu-v-ssha-za-nedelju-vypuskajut-stolko-f-35-skolko-russkie-sobirajutsja-vypustit-su-57-za-god.html
                1. Cyril G ...
                  Cyril G ... April 23 2020 23: 32 New
                  0
                  - I do not know why you began to argue.
                  - Factories in the Russian Federation do not work at maximum power at all, are you in the know? See the peak.
                  - Release will be limited by budget. In addition, there is no sense in overclocking the release of the first series, so that it does not work out like the Americans did. Do not duplicate unsuccessful decisions.
                  - The release of Penguins is the maximum consequence of the execution of Washington’s instructions by all its sixes on a joint development and construction program. The success of politics and management is, let’s say so.
                  - The jambs are also higher than the roof, but the progress is more likely to be +, with the exception of the Navy.
      5. Archon
        Archon April 22 2020 22: 52 New
        -2
        and most importantly - they made a lot of money on it, provided jobs for a lot of people and, probably, learn from mistakes.
      6. Wizard_57
        Wizard_57 April 22 2020 22: 53 New
        0
        Quote: A. Privalov
        It is possible that he is mediocre and even shit. However, here it is, both in metal, and in flight, and in the armies of the world. 500 pieces, 1000 pilots. 250 hours in the air.

        "On January 30, the US Department of Defense's annual report to Congress submitted by the Director of Operational Test and Evaluation (OT&E) regarding the technical condition of the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Generation V tactical fighter jets and the operation of the combat readiness program said that" ... despite the fact that the program is working on the elimination of deficiencies, new ones are still being identified, which leads to a slight decrease in their total number. ”In total, as of this date, the aircraft has 873 unresolved defects, as reported by FlightGlobal. Among them, there are thirteen 1st category, which according to the US Air Force limitation "can lead to the death or serious injury of the pilot, to the loss or serious damage to the weapon system and critically limit the combat readiness of the units using it or lead to a production stop."

        Content source: https://naukatehnika.com/73-%C2%ABkosyaka%C2%BB-istrebitelya-lockheed-martin-f-35-lightning-ii.html
        naukatehnika.com "
      7. NEXUS
        NEXUS April 22 2020 23: 38 New
        +2
        Quote: A. Privalov
        However, here it is, both in metal, and in flight, and in the armies of the world. 500 pieces, 1000 pilots. 250 hours in the air.

        So what? What serious opponent was he used against? In a war of even moderate intensity, where the enemy will have air defense means, fighters (at least 4 generations), this entire pride of the mattress aircraft industry, when they begin to knock out, what will all this replenish with? Moreover, given the cost of this device, will the US economy pull such costs? I'm not talking about losses in the flight crew. How will the flight crew be replenished, dear? They stamped 500 F-35s and what? Well, we put on duty various air defense systems, to the level of which the mattresses are so far. And only in the territory of the Russian Federation such complexes as S-400 are already more than 400 pieces. About TOR, BUK, Carapace and further down the list, I generally keep quiet.
    2. Bald rat
      Bald rat April 22 2020 18: 20 New
      +9
      The article is exclusively about SU57. What does the F35 have to do with the SU57? Why this offtopic?
    3. Pavel57
      Pavel57 April 22 2020 18: 20 New
      +5
      It's one thing to copy the Soviet Yak ...

      Yet this is not a copy, but a creative rethinking.
      1. nikolaj1703
        nikolaj1703 April 22 2020 19: 01 New
        +3
        Yak141 was originally stillborn, Yakovlev refused it because of an unsuccessful scheme with a multi-engine power plant.
        1. Pavel57
          Pavel57 April 23 2020 14: 42 New
          -2
          nikolaj1703 (Nikolai), a multi-engine power plant was used on the Yak-38, which riveted more than 230 pieces. Yes, it was not effective, but it stemmed from half-hearted decisions on aircraft-carrying ships in the USSR. If everything worked out, then the Yak-41 would appear, then the Yak-43, etc.
          1. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... April 23 2020 18: 54 New
            +1
            And for example, if we made a bet on a short take-off rather than a vertical one, things would go better. I am wrong? With us, as usual, VeMaeF did not know what it wanted. Since the beginning of the 80s, vertical lines have become sharply uninteresting for VeMeF, he has a new beloved wife - a deck aircraft that takes off horizontally from a springboard.
      2. Prisoner
        Prisoner April 22 2020 19: 32 New
        -3
        In vain they "rethought". They only made it worse.
    4. Grigory_45
      Grigory_45 April 22 2020 21: 28 New
      +2
      Quote: Azazelo
      copy the Soviet Yak with vert. take-off

      and what is copied from the Yak-141?
    5. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I April 23 2020 00: 40 New
      0
      Quote: Azazelo
      It is one thing to copy the Soviet Yak with vert. takeoff, another thing is to make this shit fly ....

      Actually, if you look at it, the Americans did not "copy" the "ready for battle" Yak-141, but the projected Yak-201 ...! It is enough to compare the design schemes of the F-35 and Yak-141, and have a look at the Yak-201 project ...
      1. Pavel57
        Pavel57 April 23 2020 12: 12 New
        -1
        What is on the network for the Yak-201 is not like the F-35. Rather, the Americans got the design scheme, finalized it for an engine with a fan drive instead of additional engines. Well, they re-arranged the Yak-41/43 to get the internal deployment of weapons.
        1. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I April 23 2020 13: 44 New
          +1
          Quote: Pavel57
          What is on the network for the Yak-201 is not like the F-35

          Duc, the F-35 does not look like a "complete" copy of the Yak-141! The Yak-141 has one lift and sustainer and two lift engines, like the Yak-38 ... only the layout is somewhat different ... The Yak-201 has one lift and sustainer engine (PMD) and a "fan" with power take-off from PMD ... The F-35V has one engine and a "fan" with power take-off from the PMD! Under this "gaze", who is more "like" whom?
          1. Pavel57
            Pavel57 April 23 2020 14: 26 New
            -1
            Nikolaevich I (Vladimir), I’m ready to agree with Swami if you list what documentation Lockheed received from Yakovlev Design Bureau vertically. If you can’t, then we can prepare that the F-35 was created based on the Yakovlev cars and based on the experience of the Design Bureau,
            1. Nikolaevich I
              Nikolaevich I April 23 2020 15: 24 New
              +2
              Well, this is a long-standing and well-known story about how, in the 90s, the Yakovlev Design Bureau transferred to Lockheed the documentation for the Yak-141 (and for the Yak-38 ... for "delivery"), when the F-35 was not yet 35 ", and an abbreviation of 4 English letters (I don't remember exactly which ones ...). Well, and sho? It's not clear ... what is the dispute about? Firstly, we now do not know in detail what documentation, up to a leaf, up to a diagram, in fact, was handed over to the Americans ... Secondly, I didn’t prove which concrete (!) Construction the Americans took as a “basis”! I only expressed my opinion that according to the principle (!) Of ensuring takeoff and landing, the F-35 "resembles" (!) Rather the Yak-201 than the Yak-141! That's all...
              1. Pavel57
                Pavel57 April 23 2020 15: 37 New
                -1
                The story is famous, but apparently not so good that there are different interpretations of it.
    6. EvilLion
      EvilLion April 24 2020 10: 07 New
      -1
      Get involved with drugs.

      And the F-35 is the F / A-18E on the new tech. level. Do you have a complaint with the F / A-18E? I have only one - this is a soldier airplane, unlike terminators such as F-15, F-22, Su-27 and Su-57.
  3. Keeping
    Keeping April 22 2020 18: 18 New
    -10
    Yes, to build a Su-57 - this is not for you to twist the cows ... What our fathers could, we can’t ...
    1. Lipchanin
      Lipchanin April 22 2020 19: 23 New
      -4
      Quote: Keeping
      What our fathers could do, we can’t ...

      You may not, but I’m already a grandfather laughing
      What are you all hiding for "fathers. Now the technique is many times more complicated, so it takes longer to be done and brought to mind.
      Do you want to compare the complexity of the Su-27 with the Su-57? MiG-25 with MiG-31?
      And all kinds of modernization is not done by the fathers
      1. Keeping
        Keeping April 22 2020 20: 16 New
        -4
        Well then we are in full ass.
        Iran launches rockets with its satellites, China is stamping the fifth generation of aircraft, Hindus have aircraft carriers and only we cannot bring any of this to mind ....
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... April 22 2020 21: 38 New
          +2
          Chinese five and not close to five
        2. Vladimir_6
          Vladimir_6 April 22 2020 21: 39 New
          +2
          Quote: Keeping
          Well then we are in full ass.

          Keeping, you should not make such statements on behalf of ALL.
          Iran launches rockets with its satellites

          On the fourth attempt, the first successful launch. Russia put into orbit the first artificial Earth satellite on October 4, 1957.
          China fifth generation aircraft stamps

          "Many Chinese experts are inclined to classify the J-20 as a fifth generation fighter, but in fact, there is a major factor that does not give the J-20 this status."
          This factor is the lack of engines at the moment that can give the J-20 fighter super-maneuverability. Fighter jets are operated with Russian engines, there are few variants of the latest engines created in China for the new batch of J-20. But while these engines with a controlled thrust vector are being tested and until they go into series, the J-20 fighter cannot be fully attributed to the 5th generation.

          "As noted by The National Interest, both Russia and China are developing fifth-generation fighters" to challenge US dominance. "However, the approach is different."
          The publication admits that the Su-57, even with the AL-41F1 engine in operation, is superior to its Chinese competitor in terms of maneuverability and supersonic performance. However, the efficiency of the Su-57 will increase even more with the installation of a new engine known as the "Type 30" ... And although a new engine is being developed in China, the American publication doubts that it will increase the maneuverability of the J-20 to the level of the Su-57.

          https://rg.ru/2018/05/24/rossijskij-su-57-sravnili-s-kitajskij-istrebitelem-j-20.html
          1. Keeping
            Keeping April 22 2020 21: 52 New
            -9
            Wait, wait, Russia launched the satellite in 1957. ?????
            1. Ponchik78
              Ponchik78 April 22 2020 22: 32 New
              +7
              The man was a little mistaken. Kazakhstan of course. Baikonur is located in Kazakhstan.
              ... There is no need to pretend to be a scholar. For the whole world, that RI, that the USSR, that the Russian Federation has always been and remains Russia. Despite the changes in official names and political system.
              1. Vladimir_6
                Vladimir_6 April 22 2020 22: 58 New
                +1
                Quote: Ponchik78
                The man was a little mistaken. Kazakhstan of course. Baikonur is located in Kazakhstan.
                ... There is no need to pretend to be a scholar. For the whole world, that RI, that the USSR, that the Russian Federation has always been and remains Russia. Despite the changes in official names and political system.

                Not a mistake. I deliberately said so. Because the development of the carrier and the satellite itself, the scientists of the RSFSR were engaged. The Keeping replica is quite expected, but meaningless.
            2. Range
              Range April 22 2020 22: 44 New
              0
              Yes, October 4, 1957. It was the first satellite put into the orbit of the Earth by humanity and the USSR did it. And what is news for you?
              1. Vladimir_6
                Vladimir_6 April 22 2020 23: 18 New
                0
                Quote: Spectrum
                Yes, October 4, 1957. It was the first satellite put into the orbit of the Earth by humanity and the USSR did it. And what is news for you?

                No, not news. This is the answer from Keeping comrade to the post:
                Keeping Today, 20:16
                Well then we are in full ass.
                Iran launches rockets with its satellites ... and only we cannot bring any of this to mind
            3. Prisoner
              Prisoner April 22 2020 23: 11 New
              0
              Russia is the assignee of the USSR, that's all for a short time! Or is it a revelation for you that the USSR launched a satellite in 1954? And you probably thought that the United States in 1957?
            4. Vladimir_6
              Vladimir_6 April 22 2020 23: 48 New
              +1
              Quote: Keeping
              Wait, wait, Russia launched the satellite in 1957. ?????

              It was the RUSSIAN Soviet Federative Socialist Republic that made the satellite and put into orbit. Not Armenian, Georgian, Kyrgyz, etc.
              The fact that the launch was carried out from the 5th research site of the USSR Ministry of Defense “Tyura-Tam” does not mean that Kazakhstan made and put this device into orbit.
              After the collapse of the USSR, Russia continues to develop what was begun during the time of the Union.
        3. EvilLion
          EvilLion April 24 2020 10: 09 New
          0
          You wouldn’t write nonsense, but you’ve studied how Iranian products are inferior to Russian ones, and what is the Chinese 5th generation on old Soviet engines.
    2. EvilLion
      EvilLion April 24 2020 10: 08 New
      0
      Well, you definitely do not participate in the development.
  4. alekc75
    alekc75 April 22 2020 18: 19 New
    +4
    let's wait a bit and the su-57 will go to the troops
    1. shahor
      shahor April 23 2020 17: 50 New
      -1
      Quote: alekc75
      wait a bit

      We’ll wait, they promise from the age of 14 ...
  5. kjhg
    kjhg April 22 2020 18: 28 New
    11
    Objectively, the Indians, in the joint design and production, wanted to get modern critical technologies and arrange their production at home. It was because of the refusal to provide them, including software keys, that the Indians left the project. Arguments about the incomplete compliance of stealth technology, unsatisfactory engine performance, etc. Of course there was a place to be, but they knew that these were temporary difficulties and they would be eliminated over time. Well, Russia will have to bring the Su-57 to the required level alone.
    1. Grigory_45
      Grigory_45 April 22 2020 21: 36 New
      -1
      Quote: kjhg
      Objectively, the Indians, in the joint design and production, wanted to get modern critical technologies and arrange their production at home

      so FGFA and was originally to be produced in Indian national enterprises)
      Under the terms of the agreement, the Indian company HAL was to develop an on-board computer, software, navigation system, information displays in the cockpit and security systems.

      Quote: kjhg
      It is because of the refusal to provide them, including software keys, the Indians both left the project

      can I have proof If the Indians participated in the development of avionics parts and software for aircraft systems?
  6. TermNachTer
    TermNachTer April 22 2020 18: 31 New
    +4
    I rzhu nimagu - buying a 4 + generation airplane, at a price more expensive than the F - 35 - has traces of corruption ???)))) Guys, you could say simpler - stupid cut budget grandmas.
    1. parkello
      parkello April 22 2020 18: 48 New
      +2
      Yes, and the supplier threw ... and no localization of production in India. But it’s ridiculous at all .. they can’t assemble a 4th generation aircraft, where is the 5th? copy it to AK. there you need to have knowledge in the field of materials science and metallurgy, mix nano materials for turbine blades. where is it all It’s clear that Indians don’t. the maximum that they can, is the production of An-2, and even then. if the engines find.
    2. gurzuf
      gurzuf April 22 2020 18: 56 New
      +3
      With gypsies and without corruption, how is this possible in principle? winked
  7. Fishery
    Fishery April 22 2020 18: 38 New
    -3
    Well, logically they wanted invisibility, SU57 does not seem to rely on invisibility, so apparently the concept does not answer
  8. pafegosoff
    pafegosoff April 22 2020 19: 15 New
    +1
    Gypsies make excuses: "I ate a ladybug and washed it down from a puddle. I didn't buy gas water - let it be worse for them!"
  9. The comment was deleted.
    1. SovAr238A
      SovAr238A April 22 2020 20: 09 New
      -3
      Quote: Victor March 47
      Does Israel have an enemy nearby to be beaten with this golden broom?


      Have you seen the prices of the F-35 for Israel?
      I do not think that there will be more than 75 million dollars.
      Which is 40% cheaper than Rafal, and 25% cheaper than the Su-35S.

      One, very economical engine.
      A good system for forecasting failure, which significantly reduces the cost of procurement and maintenance of spare parts.

      Well, about the enemies.

      In Israel, if you really take a sober look at the surroundings along the borders - wreck of enemies.
      Some people attacked him all the time.
      First.

      The latter all the time threaten to destroy him and spend billions on subversive activities.

      It would be strange to live in Russia if it were from the Moscow region and everything around would be like Ukraine and Georgia.
      So did not try to think?

      And yes, the F-35 is not cheap like Tucano.
      But he allows 5 orders of magnitude more than Tucano.
      One flight of a pair of aircraft - and there is practically no air defense headquarters.
      Well protected headquarters.
      This is the headquarters, not the shop of the junkman Nasrullah.

      And so in everything.
      Look at the history of the Israeli Air Force.
      There is much to learn.
      The whole world is really learning from them.
      Military affairs.
      Have them.

      And not with the Americans or ours.
      1. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... April 22 2020 21: 40 New
        +3
        At the same time, the Jews announced the purchase of a Needle squadron (25 pieces). What for if the Penguin is so good?
        1. SovAr238A
          SovAr238A April 22 2020 22: 15 New
          -6
          Quote: Cyril G ...
          At the same time, the Jews announced the purchase of a Needle squadron (25 pieces). What for if the Penguin is so good?


          And you really do not know why?
          Did not try to search for yourself?

          OK, I will answer you.
          1. The production facilities of Lockheed do not allow to immediately saturate the demand "here and now".
          Although they make 3 planes a week, they aren’t enough for everyone and they are scheduled for 10 years in advance.

          2. Retraining the pilot on the F-35 is quite expensive. It lasts 2 years. The number of pilots from among 4-generation aircraft capable of controlling a 5-generation aircraft does not exceed 25-40%.

          3. The purchase of new needles is for the urgent replacement of existing, debited by the complete depletion of the resource.

          These three indicators in symbiosis give a picture of the decision to purchase Needles.
          ie
          - new planes here and now no one will give them, for the turn.
          - they lack the necessary qualifications. and they are not needed without the appropriate aircraft.
          - expose your air force and reduce its defenses in anticipation of the prospect, albeit excellent. but still distant - they cannot afford ...


          Here is a picture.
          Oil.
          1. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... April 22 2020 22: 59 New
            +1
            Everything is exactly the opposite. You hear yourself interestingly - this is essentially a sentence of the whole concept in principle.
        2. shahor
          shahor April 23 2020 18: 04 New
          0
          Quote: Cyril G ...
          What if the Penguin is so good?

          Ask what they buy for f-15. f-15x. New version - with new engines and conformal tanks - range. New Breo with the world's most powerful on-board computer. New design of suspension units with a payload of 13 tons. It can carry, for example, 32 AMRAAM. Almost enough for IAP. This is not a replacement for the f-35. This is a tactical link from the category, for example, greetings to Iran.
          1. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... April 23 2020 18: 41 New
            0
            I just asked. And how does this refute the postulate that, in principle, under comparable conditions, Eagle will not yield to the Penguin? And Iran, in fact, has no aviation if that.
  10. businessv
    businessv April 22 2020 20: 14 New
    -1
    Opposition circles have called the deal with France a "trail of corruption."
    Corruption is the basis of government contracts in India!
  11. Victor March 47
    Victor March 47 April 22 2020 20: 32 New
    0
    Quote: SovAr238A
    Quote: Victor March 47
    Does Israel have an enemy nearby to be beaten with this golden broom?


    Have you seen the prices of the F-35 for Israel?
    I do not think that there will be more than 75 million dollars.
    Which is 40% cheaper than Rafal, and 25% cheaper than the Su-35S.

    One, very economical engine.
    A good system for forecasting failure, which significantly reduces the cost of procurement and maintenance of spare parts.

    Well, about the enemies.

    In Israel, if you really take a sober look at the surroundings along the borders - wreck of enemies.
    Some people attacked him all the time.
    First.

    The latter all the time threaten to destroy him and spend billions on subversive activities.

    It would be strange to live in Russia if it were from the Moscow region and everything around would be like Ukraine and Georgia.
    So did not try to think?

    And yes, the F-35 is not cheap like Tucano.
    But he allows 5 orders of magnitude more than Tucano.
    One flight of a pair of aircraft - and there is practically no air defense headquarters.
    Well protected headquarters.
    This is the headquarters, not the shop of the junkman Nasrullah.

    And so in everything.
    Look at the history of the Israeli Air Force.
    There is much to learn.
    The whole world is really learning from them.
    Military affairs.
    Have them.

    And not with the Americans or ours.

    F-35, it costs, if you add up production, service for the entire service life, then the price becomes equal to the price of a piece of pure gold of the same mass as the plane.
    More than a thousand still unresolved comments. No maneuverability. Weak weapons. Small radius of action. "Invisibility" only in the complete radio silence mode. Invisibility only in the mode of location illumination from the side. If AWACS were to be dumped, hundreds of "invisible men" would go blind in a moment. It is worth turning on the radio or locator in active mode, it can be seen very well and very far. The question with prices is so interesting that digging there, the devil will break his leg. 20 million fell off the price, it was worth Trump only to cough in the direction of Lockheed. On the same day. How many are still buried there? Or, why didn't the lobby of Israel assist in preferential sales? For example, for loans issued in return, which still need to be worked out with interest? And the performance of some delicate tasks outside the borders of this state? This is not a price increase?
    Drive Arab MIG-21s in the air, or camels, if it is on the ground.
    The cost of an hour of flight does not bother this miracle? Not used to buying iron for half the price, paying service for ten?
    1. SovAr238A
      SovAr238A April 22 2020 21: 51 New
      -3
      Quote: Victor March 47

      F-35, it costs, if you add up production, service for the entire service life, then the price becomes equal to the price of a piece of pure gold of the same mass as the plane.
      More than a thousand still unresolved comments. No maneuverability. Weak weapons. Small radius of action. "Invisibility" only in the complete radio silence mode. Invisibility only in the mode of location illumination from the side. If AWACS were to be dumped, hundreds of "invisible men" would go blind in a moment. It is worth turning on the radio or locator in active mode, it can be seen very well and very far. The question with prices is so interesting that digging there, the devil will break his leg. 20 million fell off the price, it was worth Trump only to cough in the direction of Lockheed. On the same day. How many are still buried there? Or, why didn't the lobby of Israel assist in preferential sales? For example, for loans issued in return, which still need to be worked out with interest? And the performance of some delicate tasks outside the borders of this state? This is not a price increase?
      Drive Arab MIG-21s in the air, or camels, if it is on the ground.
      The cost of an hour of flight does not bother this miracle? Not used to buying iron for half the price, paying service for ten?


      Do you think that our amolets are cheaper?
      Which are still being made not by assembly line, but by piece assembly ...
      When all materials are bought, at best, at exchange prices, and usually at exorbitant prices of the State Defense Order, because deliveries under the State Defense Order always come at maximum prices. which was posted by "the only bidder in the quotation for price requests", which is subsequently the only bidder.
      Costs of development, maintenance of all these research institutes and factories - do not want to add to the cost of the aircraft that they produce?
      How many state subsidies did Sukhoi Corporation receive?
      I'm not talking about paying for planes, I'm talking about subsidies ...
      Well, of course, fuel is 20 years in advance .. And service staff is 20 years in advance.
      And pilot training along with training.
      Why am I listing all this, because the F-35 program has taken this into account for 20 years ...
      The whole system and the entire infrastructure.

      Sum up.
      You will not succeed unless 18 tons of gold?


      The maneuverability of the F-35 is all right.
      With weapons is also great.
      Not a single combat aircraft over the past 20 years when working as a fighter has not fired more than 2 missiles at a time.

      About the work of AFAR in the LPI mode, as I understand it, you do not know at all, otherwise there would be no 5 lines of complete nonsense about AWACS.
      1. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... April 22 2020 23: 04 New
        +1
        - LPI operation is detected anyway from a greater distance in comparison with Penguin Radar Detection. The question of signal analysis, Pastels after the 14th year allow this to be done ..

        Since the last 20 years, there have been no banal fights in the air. That's all. The fact that the IHL with a comparable radar strikes Penguin in all positions there would be no questions, the more effective the RVV Launch with the ARGSN is approximately 1/3 of the maximum launch range, so consider ...
  12. Glenni
    Glenni April 22 2020 20: 36 New
    -2
    What is the phrase "make it fly"? Teach to fly! Donkey can be made to fly?
  13. Maks1995
    Maks1995 April 22 2020 21: 15 New
    -9
    In fact, all this is garbage.
    And The National Interest is Edros' favorite magazine.

    And India withdrew from this and other projects clearly for the specific stated reasons.
    Bad Stealth - which was confirmed when they admitted that they "forgot" the cab cover.
    There were no normal engines (and there are 2 of them for one aircraft, unlike the F35). - - it seems they promise to solve it just about.
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... April 22 2020 23: 07 New
      +2
      For a start, you would know that with an "abnormal" engine, the Su-57 has a better takeoff mass to power ratio than the Penguin.
      - the issue of covering the cabin is fundamentally not solved? And its share in the total EPR is minuscule. Or does someone seriously believe that the Penguin EPR is equal to the area of ​​an orange?
      1. Maks1995
        Maks1995 April 23 2020 08: 17 New
        -6
        Ento you so thought up - Miser-fizer ...
        And ours boasted everywhere - 50% of the stealth provided when they developed a coating for the cockpit - oh yes we are !!!
        But late, the Indians left a year before ...
        and engines - so far - there are roofing felts, there is no second stage felts ...
        And I don’t care about the penguin, we’re not talking about him ... although they have already made them for 450 ... and he has 1n engine pulling the plane, so the performance characteristics by default should be worse ... and "conditionally cheaper exploitation"
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... April 23 2020 09: 33 New
          0
          The engine that already stands fully provides cruising supersonic, unlike ....., and higher characteristics in rate of climb and accelerating qualities ..
          And the fact that we pulled the five is a miracle in principle.
          1. Maks1995
            Maks1995 April 23 2020 11: 42 New
            -5
            Tse is good. I'm talking about engines.

            And that they pulled the five - Tse is not a miracle anyway (even under Yeltsin they managed to make piece underwaffles), all the more if for a long time and by hand piece by piece.
            Stealth has long been. Amers really.
            Supersound too. Cruising. It seems that Tu 144 flew on it.

            And right now 5ku is being developed by all and sundry.
            The Japanese, the Chinese, still someone from Asia, the Europeans, even the Iranians boasted.
            With engines, the problem is with electronics.

            Therefore, I put on the Japanese.
  14. K-50
    K-50 April 22 2020 21: 25 New
    +1
    According to representatives of the Indian Air Force, it (Su-57) is very expensive
    fellow laughing
    But "Rafale" is more expensive than 200 lamas of greenery, apparently for the money norms! fellow lol
  15. veritas
    veritas April 22 2020 21: 47 New
    +4
    According to the author of the article, Indian complaints revealed the following problem: "it is one thing to sketch an improved military aircraft on paper, and it is quite another to build and make it fly."

    The author is clearly not in himself. The plane is built and flies remarkably. The engine is being finalized if it weren’t for the coronavirus and the collapse of oil prices maybe in 10 years and we already had 100 pieces. Well, now the perspective is not clear.
  16. Lord of the Sith
    Lord of the Sith April 22 2020 22: 13 New
    +2
    So why India abandoned the Russian Su-57


    Nobody refused anything. Jimmy is now in a state of ritual dancing, they are waiting for Russia to bring the Su-57 to its senses in order to get it all ready.
    And no one else will sell them 5th generation aircraft.
  17. Ax Matt
    Ax Matt April 22 2020 22: 14 New
    +1
    A tailwind to the humpbacked back, our Indian "friends". bully A humpback, as you know, only the grave and correct ...
    1. boss
      boss April 22 2020 22: 59 New
      0
      Do you propose this to all old buyers ?!
      Not smart
      Unpromising
  18. The comment was deleted.
  19. Ria
    Ria April 23 2020 00: 42 New
    0
    The experience of Russia with the French Mistral Indians to help.
  20. storm
    storm April 23 2020 01: 21 New
    0
    another "qigan" method of the Indians "for three kopecks" to get the latest technologies of the 5th generation.
    When the Indians were offered to pay for the project equally, they jumped off .....
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... April 23 2020 09: 38 New
      0
      And what for they they. Do not pull. In reality, the Hindus mastered the assembly of Su-30SM from machine kits with minimal localization and barely in 40 years reached the stage of assembling prototypes of their homegrown miracle of Tejas generation 3+, and you howl that Sukhoi is bad. Make better cho!
  21. Comrade Michael
    Comrade Michael April 23 2020 08: 54 New
    0
    Until we start massively purchasing and adopting and rolling out in wars, building at the same time a new tactics and strategy for application, we will look back at the opinion of every barefoot ragman .... They should be honored to buy our weapons. His best advertisement is mass exploitation and victory on the battlefield. A white man should dominate the fantasies of such allies, they should be drawn to him ... And we ourselves will adapt to them ... Take into service 500-1000 pieces, and then carve someone model-wise in military operations (the enemy with the Air Force and air defense). You then have a line for them around the globe.